This is a little theory I've brought up a few times in various discussions over the years. I can't say it is uniquely mine as I've heard similar things from others over the years. This is my attempt to build something of a coherent argument regarding Weyland Yutani/The Company as depicted in the original trilogy of films, and why I think the EU, and the later sequels, started to get this wrong.
I remember playing Alien Trilogy a lot as a kid. It's one of my favorite Doom clones. One thing that always sat wrong with me was the really strange briefing given to Burke during the opening cinematic.
Okay, why are we talking about Alien Trilogy all of the sudden? "That's not a movie!' I hear you say. Quite right. It does represent a fundamental, I think, misunderstanding of the original films. At least the first two. This poison is found flooding the EU any time corporations are brought up. They want it for bio-weapons, for greedy reasons, and they don't care who gets hurt... and this seems universal across just about every corporation we ever see. There are no upstanding businessmen out there. Everyone is a monster.
In fact, hold onto your butts, the only time the entire Alien universe ever gives benefit of the doubt to these companies is in AVP of all things. Charles Bishop Weyland is depicted, not as a greedy monster, or nefarious or evil. He's a guy who's dying and wants to leave a legacy. They treat Weyland, not as a monster, but as a human. With human foibles. In the end he dies heroically. I always liked that. That is one positive I will always give to that film. I honestly expected Weyland to turn into "Burke 2.0" when I went into the film originally.
Back to the EU. The problem is it starts to become something of the consensus. That Weyland Yutani, Seegson, Chigusa, etc... They all become evil for the sake of being antagonistic presences in the story. Which is such a weak way to write. You want a villain, fine, but form follows function. Give them a motive, and show them taking the steps, that makes sense. *snap* Imagine a rival corporation, instead of going down the same exact route, was trying to dig up dirt on Weyland Yutani to use against them to blackmail them or strong arm them during various business deals? You could generate so much conflict by having multitudes of motivation. Add some depth to it.
This is one of the reasons I enjoy the UPP from Gibson's Alien III so much. They do go down a similar route, but their motive for it makes perfect sense. They're suspicious of their corporatist adversaries, and afraid that they will exploit the Alien against them, so they try to get there first. It makes sense. It creates a logical conflict, and it doesn't seem to come from a nefarious place.
Then it becomes the question of "what are they going to do with it?" What's the intention with the Alien? The first film smartly leaves it vague enough as "for the bioweapons division." That's great. However, after awhile that motivation does need to be expanded on... How are we going to use it? Alien Resurrection, strangely enough, offers a little more insight into the potential applications. "New alloys. New vaccines." Alright! I like that. The problem is, it came from Alien Resurrection.
Then, of course, you have the really silly stuff in the EU. AVP Classic 2000 had Weyland Yutani building... *sigh* Xenoborgs. So, you have this really lethal, fast, adaptive alien organism... and you strap an exoskeleton and laser guns on it which take away all of its unique properties... Why not just build a giant mech robot? I never did get this. Rebellion? I get that you needed a plot twist at the end of the marine campaign... but... Why this? Why? It's so... Awful!
So back to my original point:
I don't think The Company, as depicted in the first two films, was a nefarious entity. Alien in particular actually does just about everything possible to imply an uncaring machine and our characters are just trapped in it. There is nothing in the original film that requires the presence of nefarious individuals back home to be plotting anything. Signal gets picked up, Nostromo is rerouted with a new S.O. being assigned. As the situation unfolds various parameters and special orders are issued to deal with it. Priority one being to recover technology and organisms of an extraterrestrial origin. This is supported by the clause that Ash quotes to Parker. If you find anything intelligent or of value you have to check it out or
we won't pay you.Frankly, I find any stories that go down that path of all of this being part of some larger plan as being... Well, awful. The evil corporation is such a tiresome cliche, and the reality is this didn't really get any credence in the films until Alien 3 when Michael Bishop put a face to the evil intentions of the company.
The same logic applies to Aliens. Nothing backs up Ripley's claims, and nothing happens until Burke specifically makes something happen. That means that nobody was checking out the Aliens on LV426 that entire time. Which only further supports the idea that there wasn't any individual or group of individauls behind the events of the first film either. It never made sense to think it was by clandestine design either because if you truly suspected the presence of an Alien organism, you would send a special team. You wouldn't send space truckers who are completely ignorant of what is going on.
I've watched several reactions to Aliens on Youtube over the last few months, and it seems just about everyone ignores what Burke says about that meeting. It is not a company show. It is an ICC show, with all kinds of players involved. If I recall right Burke and maybe one other person are the only actual Company reps present there. Everyone else has other interests in the events. "Insurance company guys" etc... Van lewen certainly wasn't with Weyland Yutani.
This is still a theory that is a work in progress, and it ultimately doesn't work because of Alien 3, going forward. Just about all of the EU, the games, comics, and novels, all lean into the "huge overarching conspiracy." Even Ridley Scott bought into that and was going in that direction with the prequels at one point... I don't know. Just as a writer I think the idea that you could get lost in the "paperwork" is far more terrifying than some guy in a suit sitting at a desk, smoking a cigar, thinking "Ya know... We could use this monster thing as a weapon somehow... I'm sure of it... Lets send some space truckers to pick one up!"
Death by red tape's more nefarious than any individual's intentions when it comes to all institutions.
Also Burke mid.
Michael Bishop kino.
No argument from me. I've been saying the same shit for decades now.
I also prefer having the company be apathetic, bureaucratic and more profit driven where their negligence can come to fruition. I like that a lot more than mustache twirling bad guys.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Oct 15, 2022, 02:52:12 PMI also prefer having the company be apathetic, bureaucratic and more profit driven where their negligence can come to fruition. I like that a lot more than mustache twirling bad guys.
Yeah. To me it is the more nuanced approach. It is, in fact, one of my favorite aspects of Aliens. Nobody knows anything about what Ripley is talking about to the point that they setup a colony on that very moon.
I'm just shocked out how permeating the other take is. It's in
everything outside of the first two films.
Even Alien 3 doesn't solidify any sort of overarching Evil Company scheme. They want to f**k around and find out about the Alien, sure. But they aren't abjectly evil in going about it. The only person they kill violently assaults one of them with an improvised weapon first; they escort the survivor out.
Every other depiction of the company in EU, such as Alien 3: The Gun, would have the Company just shoot everyone.
The Auriga team is more comic book villain, using human hosts rather than livestock.
While I guess you're discounting the prequels, I think the ground was being set for the AI of Weyland Yutani to be the nefarious element of the company.
Conceivably David or his cause spread amongst the AI of Weyland Yutani thus the replacement of Ash and the reroute of the Nostromo.
This all happening without the knowledge of humanity is conceivable and therefore adds nicely to me, a credible ignorance and scepticism to Ripley's story of being told to go investigate lv426 on the company's orders by the inquest panel in Aliens
Awful.
A much simpler answer is that the special order was swept under the rug when the Nostromo went missing and forgotten about for the better part of 6 decades.
Also worth noting Ash wasn't even made by WY.
How will you react when Noah Hawley's show makes it undeniably clear that the whole company is being controlled by an AI puppet master?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 16, 2022, 12:38:34 AMA much simpler answer is that the special order was swept under the rug when the Nostromo went missing and forgotten about for the better part of 6 decades.
Even simpler still. It was just an automated S.O. that was called up upon discovery of the Alien. Nothing needed to be covered up because its all just the pinging and clanging of an automated network. Nobody need be motivated back home to do anything because they just don't know anything.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 15, 2022, 07:34:35 PMEven Alien 3 doesn't solidify any sort of overarching Evil Company scheme. They want to f**k around and find out about the Alien, sure. But they aren't abjectly evil in going about it. The only person they kill violently assaults one of them with an improvised weapon first; they escort the survivor out.
Every other depiction of the company in EU, such as Alien 3: The Gun, would have the Company just shoot everyone.
The Auriga team is more comic book villain, using human hosts rather than livestock.
Ehhh... It reinforces it though. Bishop's "They know everything." Ripley's implied idea that they sent Bishop specifically to mess with Ripley mentally. The phrases like "They just want it." They
who? The board members? The shareholders? Who? It's this mindless notion of The Company Bad.
I'll grant you that it is still loose enough, and that the company itself isn't essentially in complete control of everything, which is good. That really bothers me in particular. Drink Weyland Yutani Beer! Smoke Weyland Yutani Cigarettes! ... Eugh...
Quote from: David Weyland on Oct 16, 2022, 12:07:10 AMWhile I guess you're discounting the prequels, I think the ground was being set for the AI of Weyland Yutani to be the nefarious element of the company.
Conceivably David or his cause spread amongst the AI of Weyland Yutani thus the replacement of Ash and the reroute of the Nostromo.
This all happening without the knowledge of humanity is conceivable and therefore adds nicely to me, a credible ignorance and scepticism to Ripley's story of being told to go investigate lv426 on the company's orders by the inquest panel in Aliens
That plays into overarching nefarious intent. Nobody has any interior consistent motivation in that case. David's motivation does not make sense. He wants to create... Okay. For some reason he hates the human race... Okay... But he loved Shaw? But he used her... Okay. See, it's just messy. The only thing we're really given is Walter's line about the symphony.
Just not crazy about that idea. It still puts an intention behind it. And then, of course, it begs the question of "purpose." If it was all some clandestine thing that David put into place... Like all he has to do is sneak back to Earth and walk around planting eggs everywhere. Drop a few eggs on Earth, and poof. He wins. Human race gets wiped out, and his perfect creations get the whole planet.
In that case I feel you've slid too far the opposite direction.
Someone in a cushy office somewhere sent some chumps to check it out and didn't care if it cost them their lives so long as it got a result. That was always the idea even in the first movie. They were sent out, intentionally.
The line is having the company go out of its way to be evil, which only came in through the EU. There's a difference between "kill everyone involved" and "your safety is not our priority". The films are the latter, the EU the former.
Yep, Parker summed it up pretty good : "what about our lives you son of a bitch ?"
Quote from: SiL on Oct 16, 2022, 02:11:04 AMIn that case I feel you've slid too far the opposite direction.
Someone in a cushy office somewhere sent some chumps to check it out and didn't care if it cost them their lives so long as it got a result. That was always the idea even in the first movie. They were sent out, intentionally.
The line is having the company go out of its way to be evil, which only came in through the EU. There's a difference between "kill everyone involved" and "your safety is not our priority". The films are the latter, the EU the former.
I'm not discounting that notion entirely, but it doesn't really make sense. If you think there's something of value to collect, shouldn't you be sending a qualified team and not people who are completely unprepared. Not caring about their lives is not the same as not caring about your big pay day. This is why, in my mind, it makes far more sense that the events of Alien are simply the result of the signal being picked up, and a series of automated decisions being made by The Network/Muther.
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Oct 16, 2022, 12:03:30 PMYep, Parker summed it up pretty good : "what about our lives you son of a bitch ?"
Granted, but that doesn't follow that there was
someone back home that made a specific call on that. S.O. can just as easily be a protocol that is called up. Just like the clauses Ash quotes to Parker, just as Ash was transferred to the ship, just as the S.O. if it's all just part of an automated, uncaring, computerized network there's no need for a nefarious suit back home. All the pieces are put into a place by a corporate entity (as in the social organism) to CYA in any circumstances. We have things in place to make calls on these eventualities should they arise and we need not worry.
Nah I actually agree with you, I don't feel there's really a big evil scheme to hurt people etc. But just like many existing companies right now. People getting hurt/ potentially sacrified probably is not high in the priority list when it comes against profit.
QuoteIf you think there's something of value to collect, shouldn't you be sending a qualified team and not people who are completely unprepared.
You send the closest ship you can to secure your claim. That they didn't send a dedicated team speaks more to not knowing exactly what was there than anything.
Ash being put on board really doesn't speak to an automated process either. They swapped out the science officer right before they left with an Android specifically placed to ensure the special order was followed.
Sure automated processes
could account for that, but you're going out of your way to ignore what's plainly the intent for no real benefit. The Company wasn't out to kill anyone, they just didn't care if they did. And history shows that's often the case even with actual people making the decisions.
Pretty much.
If the company wasn't out to kill anyone then but knowledge of the life forms capability and tendencies then you could argue that they did, certainly a charge above involuntary manslaughter in the workplace.
If they had gone into hyper sleep before Kane's son hatched, maybe the rest of the crew would debrief, go home and Kane would die in a lab.
However let's say Lambert and Parker along with Ripley survived also to bear witness & didn't float in space for 57 years but just a few months would that be too much knowledge for the Company & hush them up post a successful return to Earth?
Anyway I now think the AI is the nefarious element...so perhaps they might have been believed and a team would have been sent out to investigate the Derelict's coordinates sooner to nobody's benefit.
That triggered another thought what if the Narcissus was nefariously 'redirected' to float into infinity but someone messed up 😄
They'd probably say they're crazy and quietly send out a more prepared ship.
Aliens makes it pretty clear it's 100% people calling the shots and being indifferent to human collateral. There's no real need for conspiracy theories.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 18, 2022, 12:56:17 AMAliens makes it pretty clear it's 100% people calling the shots and being indifferent to human collateral. There's no real need for conspiracy theories.
Aliens makes it clear that Burke made the decision in this particular instance. Nothing in the original film indicates whether people were specifically involved or not. Given all of the metaphorical and allergorical elements of the film regarding the cold and uncaring nature of the ship, the alien, ash, the universe at large, i'm more inclined to believe not.
Alien presents its various AI as tools of people. Mother is not MCP - she's not even HAL. Ash is following the directive given to him.
Decisions are made elsewhere and then executed by workers and robots; the lower staff are collateral. The allegory was contemporary large scale multinationals, run by people, not machines.
If the movie were made today I'd agree that it's all AI is fine, but that's a retroactive reading that ignores the intended allegory of corporate upper management indifference.
That the original sequels all followed this line of thinking, and were all produced by the same people, speaks volumes to the intent.
I added some more points here, and given the perspective of seeing only the first two movies and no deleted scenes or anything part of the EU.
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=59486.msg2587712#msg2587712
That is, the company worked closely with government, given the point the the colony in the second movie is a joint project, as mentioned in the investigation. That means revenues were tied with weapons research, etc.
We don't know if the hundreds of worlds with lifeforms mentioned in the second movie took place during the time that Ripley was in hibernation, but given the fact that they had mining and other colonies by the start of the first movie, then the discoveries of various worlds and lifeforms had been taking place long before the first movie. There's also the references to bug hunts and Arcturians in the second movie.
Everyone wanted a cut, from the space truckers in the first movie to the wildcatters in the second to people like Burke to the USM wanting advanced tech to even the salvagers who find Ripley's shuttle. In which case, it's probably not so much the company being nefarious as doing business, which includes taking advantage of each other or mutual gain.
In which case, if the phenomenon of discovering worlds and lifeforms (intelligent or otherwise?) had been happening throughout (i.e., even before the setting of the first movie), then even the idea of requiring ships to investigate phenomena (like what happened in the first movie) would not have been surprising to the space truckers, especially given their awareness of things like quarantine protocols. And if, as the marines implied, the expedition sounded routine, that might also mean that they--the company, government, and USM--had been doing such things routinely across some of those hundreds of worlds or so.
They say in the first movie that investigating life forms is contractual. The actual shiftiness was the Company rerouting the ship (now with Ash on board) to intercept the signal to trigger those protocols.
The company might not be moustache-twirlingly evil, but they're definitely amoral to the point of being outright dangerous. Burke isn't a lone actor - he goes out of his way to say that despite working for the Company, "he really is an okay guy", implying that the Company (or at least, the public's perception of it) is full of scumbags but he's not one of those "bad" ones. Burke does his own thing in 'Aliens', but not because he's a bad apple amongst an otherwise okay company, but because he wants to be the one who does it
first. If he hadn't done what he did, someone else absolutely would have. Burke shows his uncaring and unremorseful nature towards the colonists he doomed because it would make him (and Ripley) big money "if they play their cards right". That's not actively going out of your way to hurt people like some kind of supervillain, but it's the next best thing.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 15, 2022, 07:34:35 PMEven Alien 3 doesn't solidify any sort of overarching Evil Company scheme. They want to f**k around and find out about the Alien, sure. But they aren't abjectly evil in going about it. The only person they kill violently assaults one of them with an improvised weapon first; they escort the survivor out.
To be fair, they kneecap said survivor without a second thought for following Ripley's instructions.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Oct 16, 2022, 03:08:12 PMGranted, but that doesn't follow that there was someone back home that made a specific call on that. S.O. can just as easily be a protocol that is called up. Just like the clauses Ash quotes to Parker, just as Ash was transferred to the ship, just as the S.O. if it's all just part of an automated, uncaring, computerized network there's no need for a nefarious suit back home. All the pieces are put into a place by a corporate entity (as in the social organism) to CYA in any circumstances. We have things in place to make calls on these eventualities should they arise and we need not worry.
The Nostromo was intentionally sent to a specific set of coordinates with the Special Order in place referencing a sequence of events that would play out if they went to those coordinates, with a synthetic sleeper agent onboard who was added to the crew at the last minute (and hid all of this from the crew), it was pretty deliberate.
Like 'Aliens', the Nostromo was an example of someone at the Company wanting to Get There First, before someone else did the same thing. That's why they hastily threw Ash on a civilian ship at the last minute and sent it to a set of coordinates, because it was convenient. As opposed to, say, sending a properly equipped science vessel. They didn't know what they'd find, they didn't care if it was dangerous, they didn't care what happened to the crew they sent.
Does the EU take it too far? Yes. Is the company still evil? Yes.
Right but they kneecapped the dude, they didn't blow him to pieces.
The Company has always been evil, but in a way that leaves enough weasely legal wiggle room to get away with it.
See also Umbrella, games vs movies.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 22, 2022, 03:17:22 AMRight but they kneecapped the dude, they didn't blow him to pieces.
The Company has always been evil, but in a way that leaves enough weasely legal wiggle room to get away with it.
See also Umbrella, games vs movies.
I barely even remember how Umbrella is portrayed in the movies (except for the most recent movie, where they're kind of portrayed like "Alien movies Weyland Yutani evil" if anything).
To be fair I'm also not very well versed in the RE games so I'm not equipped to compare the movies to the games.
Anderson has them as just ... overtly evil and somehow still functioning after the collapse of humanity? It's like the EU WY as written by a 14 year old.
In the games they're more like WY - a shady, unethical, powerful company, but still one that has to worry about how the fallout of their f**kups might affect the bottom line. They're not all-powerful.
They still end up being bought by Walmart in the end so yes pretty much.
I agree that the company wasn't evil originally and the fact that video games and comics have taken the mustache twirling evil route for them really does annoy me. In the first two movies, hell even the third, they were fairly neutral and just neglectful at worst. In the first movie, Ash malfunctioned trying to reconcile orders from the company with what was going on the ship.
In the second before, Burke was acting alone for his own greed.
in the third movie we just have bishop offering the Ripley the chance to live, its ambiguous whether he is being truthful or not. His armed guards don't even kill the remaining survivor and only fired at Aaron after he assaulted Bishop.
I think it's clear WY had some knowledge and moved the Nostromo into proximity of LV-426. It could be just some midlevel fellow like Burke that had some inside info, or it could have been the entire board of directors. We just don't know.
As for Burke, I kind of think that he wasn't really a bad guy, until he literally was on LV-426 and had his moment and stepped in that direction in the medical bay. Like that was the line he couldn't come back from. Burke never admitted it was his fault. He is a narcissist, but he may have been truthful on the bad call line. It was initially just a story and maybe he didn't really believe it, but curiosity got the better of him and he messaged the colony. Like maybe before his ass was on the line he would never have tried to hurt anyone, but once he saw an avenue to give himself a chance to get off planet, and cover up what happened (knowing the place is going thermonuclear), he was too far gone to go back the other direction, and wanted to avoid prison and litigation. It's like he doesn't really have a full grasp on reality until he runs into the alien. It's more interesting that a not so great, not so bad dude with some ambition made some costly mistakes, and then got desperate to try to fix them by any means necessary than it is that he was just like "Aw man, I should send a family out to investigate the face raping carnivore species without warning lolmybad."
Burke denied sending the colonists to the ship until Ripley produced the receipts. He knew what he did, what he caused and that he'd be in deep shit if it ever came to light. That's when he snapped.
Up until he deliberately unleashed those facehuggers on Ripley and Newt, he probably wasn't intentionally evil. I don't even think it was greed so much as fear that motivated him at that point.
Also, there's nothing in the movie that shows that he had insider info. Likely, he got the location of the landing from the hearing, but that would have meant that Ripley and the rest of the board had access to the same info.
One also senses that he was a weaselly character even when he was talking to Ripley before and during the hearing shown. That implies that he knew that there's something to Ripley's story. After all, as shown in the movie, throughout the time that Ripley was out they had been exploring hundreds of worlds and marines that engaged in bug hunts and even encountered "Arcturians".
Overall, the company resembles many today that would take advantage of their own employees over a percentage. Remember that news about one that fired many workers even though it received record profits?
But what about the flight recorder?
What about it?
You neglected to mention it.
He also neglected to mention that just because everyone else would have access to the information doesn't mean they act on it.
But his whole thing is ignoring everything that the movie says happened to create conspiracies from nothing.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 09, 2022, 05:57:16 AMYou neglected to mention it.
There's no need to mention it because that's the only source of the landing location.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 09, 2022, 06:59:14 AMHe also neglected to mention that just because everyone else would have access to the information doesn't mean they act on it.
But his whole thing is ignoring everything that the movie says happened to create conspiracies from nothing.
You're talking about yourself. I argued that he would not have acted alone, and used evidence from the movie. That's why I think the company wasn't "nefarious, until" but has been "nefarious" all along.
There's another issue to discuss in light of that, and I'll mention it in the
Aliens analysis thread.
Assumptions about the company are driven by Ripley's paranoia, but as Bishop showing up after Ripley thought he abandoned her proved, it's all about 'a certain point of view'.
Burke was a greedy f**k who had clambered up the corporate ladder by looking out for number one. He wasn't necessarily the best at it, but had the capacity to be ruthless if he needed to be.
He cut corners. He tried to get sole patent. He wanted to get set up for life - just as he explains to Ripley. But his arrogance gets the better of him. He assumes others think in the same way, probably because many of those he works with do think like that. How else does one explain him thinking Ripley might actually respond positively to his offer? :)
But the company, itself, isn't an evil entity. It's completely, utterly indifferent. It's Google writ large. It doesn't care. It exists to make profit, because it's basically an apex predator of the corporate world.
Here's a relevant example: https://twitter.com/stevekrenzel/status/1589700721121058817
He's someone who worked at Twitter and goes over how the hierarchy tried to get him to do something extremely unethical. They were doing it, not to be deliberately evil, but because they thought it would give them a secret edge - which it would have, but at the cost of also being wide open to potential abuse.
The same thing's happening at Weyland-Yutani. The company, itself, doesn't care. The Alien is, potentially, very profitable, so, they want it. Now, if the right person got ahold of the Alien? Someone competent? A not-Burke, if you will.
Well, we know from 'Alien Resurrection' that the creatures do have some great exploitable traits. They mentioned new alloys and vaccines. Those are valid results! Now, Wren talks about potentially using it for "urban pacification," but that'd be ridiculous and it's classic Joss Whedon comic book fantasy. What would be the point in unleashing Aliens in the midst of a riot? You could get the same effects by shooting automatic grenade launchers - and a lot quicker.
But the company is like the USM and it has at least a reputation for cutting corners. I mean, even the USM used illegally procured human hosts. Why? There was literally no need! It was for shock factor in the script. Realistically, it would probably be more like the 'Genocide' comic portrayed, where an artificially vat-grown 'host' would suffice.
So, let's assume Weyland-Yutani get ahold of them and are even able to breed them in sufficient numbers... What happens?
Well, they exploit them. They use them up and figure out a way to get those desirable elements from synthetic manufacture. Once they do that? Alien is surplus to requirements. No need to keep them.
And the company wouldn't care. They'd get what they want and just move on.
This is the problem the EU basically has. It's written, largely, by people who feel a need to depict the company, itself, as evil for evil's sake. Some of them try to think up things they'd do with the Alien, itself, but... What is the Alien? It's a ruthlessly opportunistic parasite. It doesn't make a very good weapon, unless it's up against nothing but unarmed colonists. It isn't capable of doing anything a private military force can't already do much quicker and more efficiently.
Which is why the company wouldn't care. They individuals who run specific departments will vary in how psychopathic they are. One guy might be like Burke and be willing to do whatever it takes. Another would find Burke's activities reprehensible. Most would probably just regard what he did as wasteful and enormously counter-productive.
If he'd gone about things in the proper way, he wouldn't have got his personal patents, but the company would have likely set up a secret base around the derelict, spent years/decades analysing the technology, used droids to extract the eggs and place them under carefully controlled laboratory conditions.
And all would be well. But where's the story in that? There wouldn't be one! :)
But the company wouldn't care, one way or another. They want products. Whether the relevant department head in charge of gaining control of those products is a predatory psychopath, is another matter, but they could just as easily be the complete opposite - or even be a small committee made up of several people, all with their own personalities.
^Pretty much this, they were neutral. Any calamity that happened was usually do to more individual factors like a broken robot or greedy people.
Unfortunately the EU really do like to portray them as essentially supervillians, especially when there is an over the top goal involved. (in avp2010, groves mentions using Aliens to take over the galaxy and become the dominant species)
The first on screen villiany really see from an organization as a whole is the USM, which is not the company but it seems to be the standard to which future portrayals of the company go by.
As said above, the illegally procured humans was completely unnecessary. science has been using animals for years to experient on and while that has its own ethical issues, its not murdering human beings. They could have just conducted their research through legal means. It seemed to be done just for shock or to say, these guys are evil so root for their deaths.
The property suffers from the same problem 'Terminator' does. A lot of writers are tempted to make Skynet emotional and moustache twirly, because they're usually creative types and strongly influenced by cartoons where that's the norm. I've seen them compile lists of character traits for how they'd write Skynet and you tend to find things like 'childish', 'greedy' and 'temper tantrum', not realising they're turning a weaponised calculator into an anthropomorphic human.
It's similar for many who write in this fandom and want to hype up the DYSTOPIAN CORPORATION OF DOOM angle. But Weyland-Yutani wouldn't be like some nefarious Bond villain, sitting in the shadows, watching the Nostromo on a camera feed, pressing a button and going, "Kiiiiill them..." It's anonymous people crunching numbers, wanting to be efficient and not giving a shit - which is why the events are all the more tragic. Because it's a breeding ground for opportunistic f**ks who cut corners for career advancement.
They don't want the crew dead because they have a hard-on for robot murder. They literally consider them "expendable", not enemies. Weyland-Yutani, properly handled, shouldn't come across as something which is scary because it wants you dead. It should come across as foreboding because you're so beneath it that you're considered insignificant.
Institutions are simply apathetic to the misery they inflict.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 10, 2022, 05:09:01 PMThe property suffers from the same problem 'Terminator' does. A lot of writers are tempted to make Skynet emotional and moustache twirly, because they're usually creative types and strongly influenced by cartoons where that's the norm. I've seen them compile lists of character traits for how they'd write Skynet and you tend to find things like 'childish', 'greedy' and 'temper tantrum', not realising they're turning a weaponised calculator into an anthropomorphic human.
It's similar for many who write in this fandom and want to hype up the DYSTOPIAN CORPORATION OF DOOM angle. But Weyland-Yutani wouldn't be like some nefarious Bond villain, sitting in the shadows, watching the Nostromo on a camera feed, pressing a button and going, "Kiiiiill them..." It's anonymous people crunching numbers, wanting to be efficient and not giving a shit - which is why the events are all the more tragic. Because it's a breeding ground for opportunistic f**ks who cut corners for career advancement.
They don't want the crew dead because they have a hard-on for robot murder. They literally consider them "expendable", not enemies. Weyland-Yutani, properly handled, shouldn't come across as something which is scary because it wants you dead. It should come across as foreboding because you're so beneath it that you're considered insignificant.
Yeah and such indifference and neglect happens quite a lot, so its not unrealistic, plus there is usually no real malice involved, just the indifference and occassional ignorance.
I really would like to see an Alien movie or product that is from the W-Y POV or at least drop the villian aspect and just make them more neutral and ambiguous.
Going from the first film, the orders only said something like bring back life form, all other priorities rescinded. its not an order to kill. I think Ash malfunctioned trying to interprete the orders. He has to bring back the organism but cannot if the crew is trying to kill it. So in order to do that, he has to do something about the crew and that may have conflicted with something. (assuming he had any orders/protocols/programming about looking after humans)
Whatever the case, its clear its a malfunction of some kind. Ash starts leaking the white fluid, he giggles, he starts looking in all directions of a wall after throwing Ripley and fidgeting, he tries to kill her in the most inefficient way. So yeah, company can't be blamed for it as they couldn't know what would happen.
It exists to profit not because it's an apex predator but because it's a for-profit corporation. Its goal is to maximize profits because that's what its investors want, and is implicit in its corporate by-laws.
This is not a new phenomenon but has been part of corporations in the real world ever since they were formed hundreds of years ago. See books like The Corporation by Wooldridge and Micklethwait for details.
The catch is that companies can only do that legally, which is why they're by-laws; they still have to adhere to the laws established by authorities that govern them. That's also why they're not exactly neutral.
The problem, in this case, are internal company policies making personnel expendable. I think that's illegal.