There's a faily good interview with Daniel Twiss AKA Daniel James who plays one of the Engineers in the film. There's a big spoiler about his character's fate:
Spoiler
We have seen the virals, the teasers and the trailers. We have seen the alien life forms and the spacecraft from Scott's Alien. What information can you give us on your character as the 'Space Engineer'?
In the original Alien, the crew encounter the 'Space Jockey', now known as an 'Engineer' (the name for the alien race) however, as this is a semi-prequel, the 'Engineers' have a much bigger part to play. My character is that of a fairly young 'Engineer' who ritualistically sacrifices himself in the opening scene. This sacrifice is very different to any others as I have to drink an ancient mix which causes my body to literally disintegrate into the water around me. This then provides the first building blocks for new life to form on the alien planet. There are two other 'Engineers' who are in the rest of the film and have fairly large parts, but you will have to wait for release to find out more.
Source: http://ifonlyuk.com/interviews/interview-daniel-twiss/ (http://ifonlyuk.com/interviews/interview-daniel-twiss/)
Has a huge spoiler in it,I wouldn't read if you dont want to be spoiled.
That is awesome...
Spoiler
So that answers a few questions and leads to a few more.
Why would sacrifice by drinking a concoction that causes you to disintegrate be the most effective way to seed life on earth?
Why are they seeding life on earth in the first place?
The skinny below -
Spoiler
Twiss plays the sacrifice engineer in the beginning.
He drinks a concoction and disintegrates to create life on Earth.
The other two engineers, Ghost and Last, have bigger roles in the film.
Quote from: Qwertify on May 22, 2012, 12:38:57 PM
The skinny below -
Spoiler
Twiss plays the sacrifice engineer in the beginning.
He drinks a concoction and disintegrates to create life on Earth.
The other two engineers, Ghost and Last, have bigger roles in the film.
And the meaning "Last" means that jockeys are extinct race ?
this is indeed awesome.
btw there u have ur
Spoiler
Sacrifice Engineer
This is exactly what i said about what was taking place in that scene.
Open maw where are you? lol
Quote from: psychonaut25 on May 22, 2012, 12:40:01 PM
Quote from: Qwertify on May 22, 2012, 12:38:57 PM
The skinny below -
Spoiler
Twiss plays the sacrifice engineer in the beginning.
He drinks a concoction and disintegrates to create life on Earth.
The other two engineers, Ghost and Last, have bigger roles in the film.
And the meaning "Last" means that jockeys are extinct race ?
Spoiler
I think it just means that it is the last Engineer on the planet. In interviews, actors and Scott have said that he is the lone survivor on the planet of a race of superbeings.
Tempting but I won`t read it.
Quote from: Master on May 22, 2012, 01:01:59 PM
Tempting but I won`t read it.
I'll admit it's a spoiler... but if anything I feel like it begs more questions and I don't feel like the movie will be ruined in any way for me...
Quote from: Master on May 22, 2012, 01:01:59 PM
Tempting but I won`t read it.
yes it is,
and wow i never thought of that :o but its still so obvious
Spoiler
I'm guessing the sacrifice scene is related to the waterfall scene in the trailers, makes sense. The engineer turns to 'water' and then mixes with the waterfall.
Huh.
One thing's for sure: Deuterium is gonna flip his s**t when he reads this :P
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 01:29:48 PM
Huh.
One thing's for sure: Deuterium is gonna flip his s**t when he reads this :P
Insert: "I'm not saying it's Aliens, but it's Aliens" picture... lol
Don't read if you had no ideas about that character, who he is and when he appears.
This is a major plot device.
Quote from: NGR01 on May 22, 2012, 02:17:40 PM
Don't read if you had no ideas about that character, who he is and when he appears.
This is a major plot device.
If you have been reading pretty much any thread on here then it shouldn't be to much of a surprise...
Spoiler
There was much speculation that the person by the waterfall was an Engineer... we knew that there were listings on cast for a "sacrifice engineer," and we knew that this movie speculates that humans were created by the Engineers... So this interview puts those together... but stills leaves so much up in the air...
Eh...I don't think the 'spoiler' is that bad.
It doesn't really have any direct impact on the plot, except to explain how something was done.
I'm not thinkin about us who made a lot a theories or read them all.
But those who are kinda fresh should avoir this.
For the most it's 2 weeks before release...
But hey thats me :)
As for having no impact on the plot... I doubt it...
Oops.... I bet Ridley is pissed about this article. There is really no point in seeing the movie now as just about everything interesting has been "leaked" or figured out by someone on here already. There is no surprise left to it. It is funny how directors make the main actors swear a blood oath to not reveal anything about the movie, but apparently never tell non-essential actors the same. Think about the pregnant chick from AVP 2 doing that interview about her scene before that movie came out. Interesting, but totally ruined it.
Quote from: mace-in-the-face on May 22, 2012, 03:27:11 PM
Oops.... I bet Ridley is pissed about this article. There is really no point in seeing the movie now as just about everything interesting has been "leaked" or figured out by someone on here already. There is no surprise left to it. It is funny how directors make the main actors swear a blood oath to not reveal anything about the movie, but apparently never tell non-essential actors the same. Think about the pregnant chick from AVP 2 doing that interview about her scene before that movie came out. Interesting, but totally ruined it.
I would argue he is not pissed, and I'm actually sure that the studio cleared this beforehand... why hasn't the person beeen interviewed before. This is precisely the kind of give away that helps build the buzz around the movie to fever pitch in the dead zone before the movie opens. There won't be new virals, etc. just this dead space in the week to two weeks before opening... this is when interviews like this are allowed to go forward to hype people.
That is pretty f**king awesome.
This does, also, apparently debunk at least one purported reviewer.
Spoiler
I believe a French guy alleged that the 'sacrifice Engineer' opened a box which he poured into the waterfall in the opening scene. That always sounded stupid to me.
Quote from: mace-in-the-face on May 22, 2012, 03:27:11 PM
There is really no point in seeing the movie now as just about everything interesting has been "leaked" or figured out by someone on here already. There is no surprise left to it.
M'kay. ::)
Quote from: mace-in-the-face on May 22, 2012, 03:27:11 PM
It is funny how directors make the main actors swear a blood oath to not reveal anything about the movie, but apparently never tell non-essential actors the same. Think about the pregnant chick from AVP 2 doing that interview about her scene before that movie came out. Interesting, but totally ruined it.
You can't ruin something that's already s**t.
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 01:29:48 PM
Huh.
One thing's for sure: Deuterium is gonna flip his s**t when he reads this :P
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi18.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb126%2FDeuterium%2Fimages.jpg&hash=e6ae849dbbdf022eb003befb86a005235a810c49)
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on May 22, 2012, 03:49:37 PM
That is pretty f**king awesome.
This does, also, apparently debunk at least one purported reviewer.
Spoiler
I believe a French guy alleged that the 'sacrifice Engineer' opened a box which he poured into the waterfall in the opening scene. That always sounded stupid to me.
Spoiler
I translated hastly, he said the Engineer had a box and something gets mixed with the wate, one can expect the box to contain an ampule maybe, something he drinks to desintegrate himself and melt into the water...
The guy have seen the movie.
Deuterium right now:
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 04:19:37 PM
Deuterium right now:
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
I have no words right now...I am an expanding cloud of cloud of vapor the size of Nebraska.
You guys love spoiling movies for yourself, nothing can be a surprise anymore now is it? I want to stay away from the spoilers rather than read them, go into seeing Prometheus knowing nothing about it and be blown away by the experience.
Quote from: Deuterium on May 22, 2012, 04:27:49 PM
I have no words right now...I am an expanding cloud of cloud of vapor the size of Nebraska.
*Sigh* I'll go get a fire extinguisher--try and put out the flames of your
rage. :D
Quote from: Rick Grimes on May 22, 2012, 04:29:34 PM
You guys love spoiling movies for yourself, nothing can be a surprise anymore now is it? I want to stay away from the spoilers rather than read them, go into seeing Prometheus knowing nothing about it and be blown away by the experience.
Then what are you doing in here? :P
Quote from: mace-in-the-face on May 22, 2012, 03:27:11 PM
Oops.... I bet Ridley is pissed about this article. There is really no point in seeing the movie now as just about everything interesting has been "leaked" or figured out by someone on here already. There is no surprise left to it.
I'm astonished that anyone can think this. The only things we've had, so far, are relatively minor details. Even
this new information is clarified as happening very early on in the film.
QuoteIt is funny how directors make the main actors swear a blood oath to not reveal anything about the movie, but apparently never tell non-essential actors the same. Think about the pregnant chick from AVP 2 doing that interview about her scene before that movie came out. Interesting, but totally ruined it.
Firstly, that scene was hardly pivotal to the plot (such as it was).
Secondly, it was obvious what was going to happen with her.
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 04:31:28 PM
[*Sigh* I'll go get a fire extinguisher--try and put out the flames of your rage. :D
Okay, but you will need seventy-five thousand of these:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi18.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb126%2FDeuterium%2Fjumbo-jet_1473655i.jpg&hash=7d382f502710503498f1223816dc32b98bc10b98)
And it would be helpful if you are near Lake Superior.
Quote from: Deuterium on May 22, 2012, 04:38:40 PM
Okay, but you will need seventy-five thousand of these:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi18.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb126%2FDeuterium%2Fjumbo-jet_1473655i.jpg&hash=7d382f502710503498f1223816dc32b98bc10b98)
And it would be helpful if you are near Lake Superior.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcollider.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fridley_scott_05.jpg&hash=3de5a5674292a10efa6b6fc2dc308906a38ea0ad)
U MAD?
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 04:31:28 PM
Quote from: Rick Grimes on May 22, 2012, 04:29:34 PM
You guys love spoiling movies for yourself, nothing can be a surprise anymore now is it? I want to stay away from the spoilers rather than read them, go into seeing Prometheus knowing nothing about it and be blown away by the experience.
Then what are you doing in here? :P
Reading your comments to see your reactions to the spoilers.
Calm thyself, Brother Deuterium...
Spoiler
From the looks of it, I think the implication isn't so much that it's being portrayed as scientifically necessary, as being culturally devised that way as part of a ritualistic ceremony.
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 04:42:39 PM
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcollider.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fridley_scott_05.jpg&hash=3de5a5674292a10efa6b6fc2dc308906a38ea0ad)
U MAD?
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi18.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb126%2FDeuterium%2Ferich_von_daniken_7.jpg&hash=b9508d4be87fbed5bffe2e5babfc7aff9fd22112)
Here, Ridley...let me light that cigar for you. Especially now, since you have been assimilated
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 04:42:39 PM
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcollider.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fridley_scott_05.jpg&hash=3de5a5674292a10efa6b6fc2dc308906a38ea0ad)
U MAD?
I cannot express how much I both love and intend to re-use that in future...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft253%2FLarsVader%2Fcharlie.jpg&hash=efdf4cfc3e6834585f7070fc9b6029c2d831d3d4)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on May 22, 2012, 04:54:00 PM
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 04:42:39 PM
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcollider.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fridley_scott_05.jpg&hash=3de5a5674292a10efa6b6fc2dc308906a38ea0ad)
U MAD?
I cannot express how much I both love and intend to re-use that in future...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi47.tinypic.com%2Fmsyb1y.jpg&hash=dbc5df7b2b8eda5187fd388cc3a46637d347f0c8)
PS: When I read the interview, I actually didn't expect him to spill the beans in the fashion he did, but just give a couple of tiny spoilerish hints about his character... But I agree that nothing has been revealed about the overall plot and we
still have no idea how the spoiler in question, will affect the overall storyarc.
Daniel is GORGEOUS without the latex (sorry for going off topic!):
http://www.zeoteksiteviewer.co.uk/model-gallery/model-details_male.asp?g=2&c=0&id=860 (http://www.zeoteksiteviewer.co.uk/model-gallery/model-details_male.asp?g=2&c=0&id=860)
Quote from: ladyferry on May 22, 2012, 06:16:43 PM
Daniel is GORGEOUS without the latex (sorry for going off topic!):
http://www.zeoteksiteviewer.co.uk/model-gallery/model-details_male.asp?g=2&c=0&id=860 (http://www.zeoteksiteviewer.co.uk/model-gallery/model-details_male.asp?g=2&c=0&id=860)
Whoa. :o
whos that? o.O
He is the gorgeous Daniel Twiss, the guy who did the interview about playing the Engineer.
he's a model?
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on May 22, 2012, 03:49:37 PM
That is pretty f**king awesome.
This does, also, apparently debunk at least one purported reviewer.
Spoiler
I believe a French guy alleged that the 'sacrifice Engineer' opened a box which he poured into the waterfall in the opening scene. That always sounded stupid to me.
Spoiler
So you think that sounded stupid yet a race capable of creating life has to drink a liquid that kills them and dissolves their body to get the ball rolling so to speak, that sounds good and realistic to you?, it sounds silly as hell to me.
sry didn't know that.
i don't get why this thread is labeled as spoiler-heavy
interesting news, but opens more questions, which is good
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: ladyferry on May 22, 2012, 06:16:43 PM
Daniel is GORGEOUS without the latex (sorry for going off topic!):
http://www.zeoteksiteviewer.co.uk/model-gallery/model-details_male.asp?g=2&c=0&id=860 (http://www.zeoteksiteviewer.co.uk/model-gallery/model-details_male.asp?g=2&c=0&id=860)
Whoa. :o
Dayymn... ahem, feel free to stop by and
engineer my broken... (casually drops a screwdriver into spinning fan) ventilation
anytime :P ;)
Quote from: Eva on May 22, 2012, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: ladyferry on May 22, 2012, 06:16:43 PM
Daniel is GORGEOUS without the latex (sorry for going off topic!):
http://www.zeoteksiteviewer.co.uk/model-gallery/model-details_male.asp?g=2&c=0&id=860 (http://www.zeoteksiteviewer.co.uk/model-gallery/model-details_male.asp?g=2&c=0&id=860)
Whoa. :o
Dayymn... ahem, feel free to stop by and engineer my broken... (casually drops a screwdriver into spinning fan) ventilation anytime :P ;)
He can 'melt' all over me too!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi50.tinypic.com%2F2luz583.jpg&hash=dfaaa45b8cfcfaa2815222c5f27354a34551f157)
You girls are too funny. :D
I admit, for a dude he's pretty good looking but then again he's a model. It's his job to look good. ;)
Quote from: RoyaleDuke on May 22, 2012, 08:25:40 PM
You girls are too funny. :D
If you think the girls are funny, take a gander at the boys in the Hot Woman thread. They're
hilarious. :P
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 08:28:29 PM
Quote from: RoyaleDuke on May 22, 2012, 08:25:40 PM
You girls are too funny. :D
If you think the girls are funny, take a gander at the boys in the Hot Woman thread. They're hilarious. :P
There's a hot women thread?
Sign me up. :D ;)
I learn more and more about this place and the wonderful people that inhabit it everyday. :laugh:
Quote from: RoyaleDuke on May 22, 2012, 08:31:00 PM
There's a hot women thread?
Sign me up. :D ;)
I learn more and more about this place and the wonderful people that inhabit it everyday. :laugh:
There's other boards here than just the PROMETHEUS one ya know ;)
Quote from: RoyaleDuke on May 22, 2012, 08:31:00 PM
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 08:28:29 PM
Quote from: RoyaleDuke on May 22, 2012, 08:25:40 PM
You girls are too funny. :D
If you think the girls are funny, take a gander at the boys in the Hot Woman thread. They're hilarious. :P
There's a hot women thread?
Sign me up. :D ;)
I learn more and more about this place and the wonderful people that inhabit it everyday. :laugh:
Is there a hot blokes thread too?
If the implication is that the melted engineer started biological life on this planet that's fine. It's just panspermia with aliens instead of asteroids; the gap in our knowledge about the 'spark' of life is likely wide enough to accommodate it... it's the aliens posing for cave paintings stuff that really bothers me.
This also might imply that the engineers are subservient to another race, which is an idea I like.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 22, 2012, 08:59:36 PM
If the implication is that the melted engineer started biological life on this planet that's fine. It's just panspermia with aliens instead of asteroids; the gap in our knowledge about the 'spark' of life is likely wide enough to accommodate it... it's the aliens posing for cave paintings stuff that really bothers me.
The problem is that if these beings have been around for billions of years, then why---
Oh, nevermind. It's not worth griping anymore. I just hope the film doesn't suck at this point. :P
Quote from: Cvalda on May 22, 2012, 09:01:34 PM
The problem is that if these beings have been around for billions of years, then why---
Oh, nevermind. It's not worth griping anymore. I just hope the film doesn't suck at this point. :P
That is about the highest level of optimism I can now muster, as well.
If the
Spoiler
sacrificial engineer started Life on Earth,
what exactly are the chances that a species of intelligent primates would develop that just so happened to be morphologically identical to the very same engineers? The answer is infinitesimally small. And what has their race/civilization been doing in the ensuing 4 billion years? Apparently, not much, except for making a few recent stops by Earth to pose for some Neolithic painters.
WARNING - Serious story spoiler THEORY! I mean it! Its a good one though 8).
Spoiler
What if this very human looking 'sacrificial engineer' scene, that presumably takes place at the beginning of the movie during the so called 'beginning of time' sequence, is actually a bluff of Hitchcock proportions...
Imagine if the Dettifoss waterfall scene is actually taking place on a real 'alien' planet (i.e. NOT Earth!) in the distant future when the human race ascend to become the new Gods, the new inter planetary 'engineers'. ("We are the Gods now" - Peter Weyland, 2023)
This Daniel Twiss chap describes his character as a fairly young 'Engineer' - does this mean young as in, his race as a whole have only recently achieved God status?!
Prometheus final scene:
Zoom in on the saucer starship from the beginning of the movie to reveal the Weyland-Yutani logo.
W-Y Planetary Engineering, Building Better Worlds in the year 9595!
-----
In the year 2525:
In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may find
In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies
Everything you think, do, or say
Is in the pill you took today
In the year 4545
Ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eyes
You won't find a thing to do
Nobody's gonna look at you
In the year 5555
Your arms are hanging limp at your sides
Your legs not nothing to do
Some machine is doing that for you
In the year 6565
Ain't gonna need no husband, won't need no wife
You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too
From the bottom of a long black tube
In the year 7510
If God's a-comin' he ought to make it by then
Maybe he'll look around himself and say
Guess it's time for the Judgement day
In the year 8510
God's gonna shake his mighty head
He'll either say I'm pleased where man has been
Or tear it down and start again
In the year 9595
I'm kinda wondering if man's gonna be alive
He's taken everything this old earth can give
And he ain't put back nothing
Now it's been 10,000 years
Man has cried a billion tears
For what he never knew
Now man's reign is through
But through the eternal night
The twinkling of starlight
So very far away
Maybe it's only yesterday
Zager & Evans, 1969
Quote from: Deuterium on May 22, 2012, 09:36:34 PM
If the Spoiler
sacrificial engineer started Life on Earth,
^This. :'(
I hereby grant Deuterium authority to fill in for my usual griping. I'm worn out :-[
I am worn out, too. I gotta find some air vents that need clearing.
Quote from: Deuterium on May 22, 2012, 09:36:34 PM
If the Spoiler
sacrificial engineer started Life on Earth,
Engineers not have changed for 4 billion years. Eccentric but acceptable (they are aliens). Have also piloted the "case" with mass extinctions when the biological evolution took impassable roads?
Scott is not James Cameron when it comes to scifi.
It's now clear that ALIEN universe is more scifi fantasy than Hard science.
Nothing to spoil my enthuthiasm.
Quote from: Deuterium on May 22, 2012, 09:36:34 PMWhat exactly are the chances that a species of intelligent primates would develop that just so happened to be morphologically identical to the very same engineers? The answer is infinitesimally small.
The further implication then must be that the engineer's genetic material is 'programmed' for a pre-determined outcome. Isn't that a thing? That our DNA has a heap of extraneous material in it that might fictionally be some kind of guiding 'program'? Seriously, I have no idea. ;)
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 22, 2012, 10:16:45 PM
The further implication then must be that the engineer's genetic material is 'programmed' for a pre-determined outcome. Isn't that a thing? That our DNA has a heap of extraneous material in it that might fictionally be some kind of guiding 'program'?
In reality, that's all extraneous waste DNA built up over hundreds of millions of years of evolution. But I can see where you're coming from.
When PROMETHEUS comes out, the fanwanking of explanations will sound like the deafening roar of that mighty waterfall the Engineer drains into :P
I strongly deny the implication in your post. ;)
'Scott is not James Cameron when it comes to scifi.
It's now clear that ALIEN universe is more scifi fantasy than Hard science.
Nothing to spoil my enthuthiasm.'
Exactly people need to have an imagination when going into a film like this and not try and explain it through science. This is a Science FICTION film, meaning although it does centre on our science terms it is not constricted by and goes beyond our understanding. People are griping about this need realise this is not a film to be rationalised in such a way, that is also including the rest of the series.
But it could have easily been more plausible had they taken less fantastical routes of storytelling.
Hopefully the intro with the sacrificial SJ is...metaphorical
I'm not even asking for Stanislaw-Lem-worthy-scifi, although that would be great.....I just would rather, like Deuterium, Cvalda, et. al, have my aliens be as alien as possible
Aliens are a fantastical idea though as a whole. That means Scott has complete free reign to do what he wants with the film. I know there needs to be some hold on that so it doesn't become a silly mess, however I haven't seen anything in the trailers that deems this film implausible. Although, don't get me wrong I do like my films to be grounded in reality because its easier to associate with these film and its, overall, more immersive if the films that way in clined. However, let me use the Batman franchise as example. I much prefer Tim Burtons because i find them more entertaining and visually more immersive than Nolans, not all films have to be realistic in order to be successful and engrossing.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 22, 2012, 10:16:45 PM
The further implication then must be that the engineer's genetic material is 'programmed' for a pre-determined outcome. Isn't that a thing? That our DNA has a heap of extraneous material in it that might fictionally be some kind of guiding 'program'? Seriously, I have no idea. ;)
Hi Chris,
That would completely undermine phylogenetic analysis and molecular biology. Yes, our genome (like most organisms) contains a large percentage of noncoding DNA, but noncoding DNA does not mean the same as the catch-all term "Junk DNA" that has been overused in media and "popularized" science articles/programs. While noncoding DNA does not code for specific protein sequences, much of it still has biological functions, including indirect mediatory roles in protein synthesis, e.g. functional RNA.
In
general, the more archaic the organism, the simpler the genetic sequence. While even simple, single-celled organisms are astonishingly complex, there is no possible way that the earliest prokaryates had enough nucleotides (i.e base pairs) to have the amount of genetic information necessary to produce a human.
Quote from: Deuterium on May 22, 2012, 11:41:33 PM
Hi Chris,
That would completely undermine phylogenetic analysis and molecular biology. Yes, our genome (like most organisms) contains a large percentage of noncoding DNA, but noncoding DNA does not mean the same as the catch-all term "Junk DNA" that has been overused in media and "popularized" science articles/programs. While noncoding DNA does not code for specific protein sequences, much of it still has biological functions, including indirect mediatory roles in protein synthesis, e.g. functional RNA.
In general, the more archaic the organism, the simpler the genetic sequence. While even simple, single-celled organisms are astonishingly complex, there is no possible way that the earliest prokaryates had enough nucleotides (i.e base pairs) to have the amount of genetic information necessary to produce a human.
Or, because I love Carl Sagan too much:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF3WLfimsb4# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF3WLfimsb4#)
Right? :)
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 22, 2012, 11:45:43 PM
[Or, because I love Carl Sagan too much:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF3WLfimsb4# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF3WLfimsb4#)
Right? :)
Right.
Well considering (I'm assuming) that this takes place before any life existed on the planet I don't think that they're going with the idea that humans were destined to come about but rather they did by chance, which is admittedly very unlikely but for life to exist and thrive in the universe itself is very unlikely anyway.
Quote from: Capovin on May 23, 2012, 12:12:12 AM
Well considering (I'm assuming) that this takes place before any life existed on the planet I don't think that they're going with the idea that humans were destined to come about but rather they did by chance, which is admittedly very unlikely but for life to exist and thrive in the universe itself is very unlikely anyway.
Time for anther Carl Sagan clip! ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yet1xkAv_HY#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yet1xkAv_HY#ws)
I really love this one.
If anyone disapproves of the Sagan clip posting I do, speak up, or forever hold your peace. :D
One thing that you must also take into account is the ability for mutations to take place in the DNA sequence due to whatever factors.
Seeding DNA by no means that over the course of 4 billion years you will end up with an exact organism. The environment has had a substantial impact on who we are today and where we came from.
I also agree with the fact that this is fiction, its a movie...there is fantasy in movies. It is not like this is supposed to be a NOVA special about the search and possibilities for ET life.
Guys... the actor didn't say that
Spoiler
his characters sacrifice created the building blocks for all life 4 billion years ago. He said that his sacrifice created the building blocks for new lifeforms.
To add, from what I've read on the subject, Earth looked nothing like what the imagery suggests 4 billion years ago...
just pointing it out... :)
Quote from: kaustin7 on May 23, 2012, 12:41:28 AM
I also agree with the fact that this is fiction, its a movie...there is fantasy in movies. It is not like this is supposed to be a NOVA special about the search and possibilities for ET life.
I can agree with this sentiment, except when the film makers start saying things like "We're not just doing fiction, we're playing around with ideas that could be true." That's what Ridley has said, they're playing around within the truth of "what might actually be out there." Which is ridiculous.
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 23, 2012, 12:58:30 AM
Quote from: kaustin7 on May 23, 2012, 12:41:28 AM
I also agree with the fact that this is fiction, its a movie...there is fantasy in movies. It is not like this is supposed to be a NOVA special about the search and possibilities for ET life.
I can agree with this sentiment, except when the film makers start saying things like "We're not just doing fiction, we're playing around with ideas that could be true." That's what Ridley has said, they're playing around within the truth of "what might actually be out there." Which is ridiculous.
I can't watch the Sagan clip for some reason, but in regards to this, when did Ridley say this? I've heard him talking about big ideas and questions, but I always assumed it was along the lines of Blade Runner and such like what it means to be human.
Quote from: Capovin on May 23, 2012, 01:53:32 AM
I can't watch the Sagan clip for some reason, but in regards to this, when did Ridley say this? I've heard him talking about big ideas and questions, but I always assumed it was along the lines of Blade Runner and such like what it means to be human.
In one of the featurettes he literally says something to the affect of "we're not just playing around with fiction, but what might actually be out there." I'll see if I can find it.
Ah, basically Carl shows us an experiment simulating early Earth atmosphere and how the elementary particles may have come together form the building blocks for early life, and to address what you said about it being uncommon. he says "Look how easy it is to make globs of the stuff." "All the materials are common throughout the universe." "Similar reactions must have occured on a billion different worlds."
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 23, 2012, 12:58:30 AM
Quote from: kaustin7 on May 23, 2012, 12:41:28 AM
I also agree with the fact that this is fiction, its a movie...there is fantasy in movies. It is not like this is supposed to be a NOVA special about the search and possibilities for ET life.
I can agree with this sentiment, except when the film makers start saying things like "We're not just doing fiction, we're playing around with ideas that could be true." That's what Ridley has said, they're playing around within the truth of "what might actually be out there." Which is ridiculous.
That is a point, but what we are talking about is people going shit crazy in the forums and chatting shit about DNA and what not. I dont mind people analysing the film in anyway or giving their opinion, but when someone is silly enough to start drivling on about how they dont think the film wont be any good because it not grounded in reality is pretty annoying and i doubt just for me
Am I the only one that can be pissed at the propagation of the Ancient Aliens ("seeding")myth as science, yet still be able to not give a shit if it's in a fictional story? :p I mean, I really don't care if it happens in the Alien Universe, just as long as it's not told shitty.
Quote from: thecaffeinatedone on May 23, 2012, 02:29:30 AM
Am I the only one that can be pissed at the propagation of the Ancient Aliens ("seeding")myth as science, yet still be able to not give a shit if it's in a fictional story? :p I mean, I really don't care if it happens in the Alien Universe, just as long as it's not told shitty.
Quote from: hfeldhaus on May 23, 2012, 02:23:55 AM
That is a point, but what we are talking about is people going shit crazy in the forums and chatting shit about DNA and what not. I dont mind people analysing the film in anyway or giving their opinion, but when someone is silly enough to start drivling on about how they dont think the film wont be any good because it not grounded in reality is pretty annoying and i doubt just for me
It's not that they've used AA as a basis for their story. Not for me anyway. I'm sure for Deuterium even that is too old hat and so forth. But I can deal with that. It's when I start hearing the writer, and the director saying that they buy into it, and they're trying to spin it as being a reality, and the movie is basically just a way for them to spread the gospel. That reeks a bit of being pretentious, and it could harm the movie if it becomes overly intrusive. Which, I really hope it's not.
I don't really think that will last though. Ridley is known to spout of like this from time to time. EDIT: Sorry, didn't see that Lindelof/Spaihts had bought into it too. Good god. ::)
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 23, 2012, 02:17:42 AM
Quote from: Capovin on May 23, 2012, 01:53:32 AM
I can't watch the Sagan clip for some reason, but in regards to this, when did Ridley say this? I've heard him talking about big ideas and questions, but I always assumed it was along the lines of Blade Runner and such like what it means to be human.
In one of the featurettes he literally says something to the affect of "we're not just playing around with fiction, but what might actually be out there." I'll see if I can find it.
Ah, basically Carl shows us an experiment simulating early Earth atmosphere and how the elementary particles may have come together form the building blocks for early life, and to address what you said about it being uncommon. he says "Look how easy it is to make globs of the stuff." "All the materials are common throughout the universe." "Similar reactions must have occured on a billion different worlds."
Hmm I haven't seen that featurette. I actually completely buy what Carl Sagan's saying, but i was speaking more to the immense amount of coincidences that led to our existence, how unlikely it is for intelligent life such as us to exist I think Hawking said something to the effect of it being comparable to a Boeing 747 being reassembled in a tornado. It stands to reason that if we came from their DNA an evolved in a similar environment to theirs, we could eventually come to a species that looks somewhat like them.
Quote from: hfeldhaus on May 23, 2012, 02:23:55 AM
That is a point, but what we are talking about is people going shit crazy in the forums and chatting shit about DNA and what not. I dont mind people analysing the film in anyway or giving their opinion, but when someone is silly enough to start drivling on about how they dont think the film wont be any good because it not grounded in reality is pretty annoying and i doubt just for me
Hfeldhaus,
You do realize what the original topic of this post is about, right? Specifically, the information conveyed in the interview with Daniel Twiss. The discussion about evolutionary pathways, and the agent of inheritence (DNA) is kind of apropos...especially when someone with even a passing curiousity tries to reconcile:
Ancient alien "engineers" (which look remarkably human) -->
the seeding of biological Life -->
billions of years of evolution -->
resulting in humans (which look remarkably like the engineers).
QuoteAncient alien "engineers" (which look remarkably human) -->
the seeding of biological Life -->
billions of years of evolution -->
resulting in humans (which look remarkably like the engineers).
You know, now that you put it that way, the 'theory' presented in the movie doesn't just sound like pseudo-science but derp-science. :-[
Quote from: Deuterium on May 23, 2012, 02:55:43 AM
Hfeldhaus,
You do realize what the original topic of this post is about, right? Specifically, the information conveyed in the interview with Daniel Twiss. The discussion about evolutionary pathways, and the agent of inheritence (DNA) is kind of apropos...especially when someone with even a passing curiousity tries to reconcile:
Ancient alien "engineers" (which look remarkably human) -->
the seeding of biological Life -->
billions of years of evolution -->
resulting in humans (which look remarkably like the engineers).
to be honest i just think your putting the emphasis too much on science when genre conveys we look at it in terms of fiction. i may have worded it wrong but i understood the DNA speak i just thought it was being taken too seriously and was affecting the way in which people thought about the film.
Quote from: Deuterium on May 23, 2012, 02:55:43 AM
Quote from: hfeldhaus on May 23, 2012, 02:23:55 AM
That is a point, but what we are talking about is people going shit crazy in the forums and chatting shit about DNA and what not. I dont mind people analysing the film in anyway or giving their opinion, but when someone is silly enough to start drivling on about how they dont think the film wont be any good because it not grounded in reality is pretty annoying and i doubt just for me
Hfeldhaus,
You do realize what the original topic of this post is about, right? Specifically, the information conveyed in the interview with Daniel Twiss. The discussion about evolutionary pathways, and the agent of inheritence (DNA) is kind of apropos...especially when someone with even a passing curiousity tries to reconcile:
Ancient alien "engineers" (which look remarkably human) -->
the seeding of biological Life -->
billions of years of evolution -->
resulting in humans (which look remarkably like the engineers).
I don't think it's billions of years for one, and we don't know what exactly happens in that scene. They could have just told the actor: ''hey, so you drink this for a ritual then you enter the water and disolve so your dna can be the beggining of some kind of life''. But that doesn't mean that act actually created all of biological life on earth or was the beginning of the human species. I doubt Ridley told this insignificant actor who was only on set for a few days, what exactly this scene means, or how it connects to the rest of the movie. This considering the secretive nature of the movie and the filming process.
Quote from: Eva on May 23, 2012, 12:49:52 AM
Guys... the actor didn't say that his characters sacrifice created the building blocks for all life 4 billion years ago. He said that his sacrifice created the building blocks for new lifeforms.
To add, from what I've read on the subject, Earth looked nothing like what the imagery suggests 4 billion years ago...
just pointing it out... :)
Quote from: zuzuki on May 23, 2012, 04:33:22 AM
I don't think it's billions of years for one, and we don't know what exactly happens in that scene. They could have just told the actor: ''hey, so you drink this for a ritual then you enter the water and disolve so your dna can be the beggining of some kind of life''. But that doesn't mean that act actually created all of biological life on earth or was the beginning of the human species. I doubt Ridley told this insignificant actor who was only on set for a few days, what exactly this scene means, or how it connects to the rest of the movie. This considering the secretive nature of the movie and the filming process.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi18.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb126%2FDeuterium%2FRipley.jpg&hash=f2fb1f6b891c7f7847002d7b13cb90351de8152b)
Quote from: Deuterium on May 23, 2012, 04:55:44 AM
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi18.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb126%2FDeuterium%2FRipley.jpg&hash=f2fb1f6b891c7f7847002d7b13cb90351de8152b)
Spoiler
Mine is better ;D
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.tinypic.com%2F5arprk.gif&hash=f3c56d5234421d7111460af4b8c2848bb8fe9bdd)
Quote from: Deuterium on May 22, 2012, 11:41:33 PMWhile noncoding DNA does not code for specific protein sequences, much of it still has biological functions, including indirect mediatory roles in protein synthesis, e.g. functional RNA.
I meant to suggest that it might be the intended story that there are elements of our genetic makeup that are of a
manufactured alien biology (non-coding DNA was a bad example). Whatever, it's got star maps in cave paintings; it's all woo hoo anyway. :P
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 23, 2012, 05:07:07 AM
I meant to suggest that it might be the intended story that there are elements of our genetic makeup that are of a manufactured alien biology (non-coding DNA was a bad example). Whatever, it's got star maps in cave paintings; it's all woo hoo anyway. :P
Brilliant, Chris...you just inspired me, mate!
(pic courtesy of Cvalda)
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi18.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb126%2FDeuterium%2FRidleywoohoo.jpg&hash=623d4f5ebe8734efc19abc304d82819031fa1d06)
Enters thread.
Shits pants.
Runs away.
Regrets running away with shit pants.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fluhw6.jpg&hash=ba9df72c6135606443d146b65a341f5a963db9ef)
(stolen from GabusMaximums @ PF).
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 23, 2012, 05:42:47 AM
http://i.imgur.com/luhw6.jpg
(stolen from GabusMaximums @ PF).
LOL! ;D
Quote from: RagingDragon on May 23, 2012, 05:33:00 AM
Enters thread.
Shits pants.
Runs away.
Regrets running away with shit pants.
RagingDragon, come back brother! The Ass-Flower cleans dirty undies. Or is it the cause of dirty undies? I can never remember which. I expect Milburn and Fifield may know the answer.
Not sure what the Ass Flower does for dirty undies, but it sure makes for spotless tonsils. :D
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 23, 2012, 06:04:13 AM
Not sure what the Ass Flower does for dirty undies, but it sure makes for spotless tonsils. :D
;D
Quote from: RagingDragon on May 23, 2012, 05:33:00 AM
Enters thread.
Shits pants.
Runs away.
Regrets running away with shit pants.
Maybe this is more appropriate
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi18.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb126%2FDeuterium%2FMonty-Python-rabbit_400.jpg&hash=eb7827da78067d3300f0dd9943e194d8d453150f)
Oh shut up and go and change your armour
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 23, 2012, 06:04:13 AM
Not sure what the Ass Flower does for dirty undies, but it sure makes for spotless tonsils. :D
It also goes down nicely with a nice cold coors beer.
You guys have seen the top of the mountain.
I'm still...
I'm still dealing with things.Don't want to bite off more than I can chew.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtYM6A.jpg&hash=c7244cc2b75c382c3e95433e9e96a8b2e5311e3a)
Oh f**k it.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FGLkhB.jpg&hash=038c4705dbd97a0e7a23ebf4b37dbfc06118d957)
Only one man can save them....
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1225.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee395%2FChrisPachi%2Fsquiddy.jpg&hash=c01af2ec80966fea75d837ada2bfba8262ed9249)
Feel sorry for all of you science buffs but it was clear to me from the start that Scott did know shit about what he was talking science wise. He's a smart but mostly visual director. Remember what Spaith said about the script, Scott had a basic concept and visuals in his mind, stuff he wanted to shoot, the writer work was create scenes leading to these images.
Scott is driven by the visual, not by the story, nor by the actors.
He's like a thinking Michael Bay, he knows what is shitty script wise and choose top notch actors who know what they do.
How many times we've heard his actors saying he lets you try stuff and such, it just means he give them the basics and let them do their work, since he choose the best he gets the best.
He's one of the great visual storyteller of our time but he's no rocket scientist.
Science was never the point of the ALIEN universe.
It just feels/looks believable and real but it's clear it never was actually.
Discuss these movie with a science angle is fun but pointless you'll only anger yourself more and more lol
5 days to go ^^
Quote from: NGR01 on May 23, 2012, 10:47:45 AMHe's like a thinking Michael Bay
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.memegenerator.net%2Finstances%2F400x%2F20831872.jpg&hash=baedb6eaccd92c0e85dbcb4ef3330ad162bf7817)
Sorry. :P
So is this Daniel Twiss guy the one that appears next to the waterfall with that black shit disintegrating his body into the water?
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 23, 2012, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: NGR01 on May 23, 2012, 10:47:45 AMHe's like a thinking Michael Bay
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20831872.jpg
Sorry. :P
Not dissin'
Just being lucid ^^
And i love Bay's work.
Quote from: escroto on May 23, 2012, 11:30:55 AM
So is this Daniel Twiss guy the one.......
Some might like to not stumble upon your post and be spoiled :)
what did I spoil?, he already spoiled It when saying he drinks a substance that literally decomposes him. That inevitably brings waterfall sequence to someone's mind
Quote from: 180924609 on May 22, 2012, 09:37:49 PM
WARNING - Serious story spoiler THEORY! I mean it! Its a good one though 8).
Spoiler
What if this very human looking 'sacrificial engineer' scene, that presumably takes place at the beginning of the movie during the so called 'beginning of time' sequence, is actually a bluff of Hitchcock proportions...
Imagine if the Dettifoss waterfall scene is actually taking place on a real 'alien' planet (i.e. NOT Earth!) in the distant future when the human race ascend to become the new Gods, the new inter planetary 'engineers'. ("We are the Gods now" - Peter Weyland, 2023)
This Daniel Twiss chap describes his character as a fairly young 'Engineer' - does this mean young as in, his race as a whole have only recently achieved God status?!
Prometheus final scene:
Zoom in on the saucer starship from the beginning of the movie to reveal the Weyland-Yutani logo.
W-Y Planetary Engineering, Building Better Worlds in the year 9595!
That's a very appealing theory. Engineers as descendants of men. Space and time travellers.
That would bring a supremely paradoxical answer to the eternal question : who created us ?
We created ourselves. Causality loop. Elsewhere, I suggested the giant stone head resembled Pearce. You seem to second that.
There appears to be dissension among the survivors of that decadent race, judging from the beheaded jockey corpse and the fleeing Engineer. Maybe the conflict revolves around the way history - the past - should be tampered with.
Then there would be something of Bradbury's A Sound of Thunder at the core of Prometheus.
"There will be no home to go back to" possibly means that if the past is once again modified by the Engineers' action, a different species may become dominant on Earth. It does not necessarily entail Armaggedon, or a brutal xenocide, but a cancellation of the random chain of events that led to men.
But then, if Engineers and Men are related, the first would commit suicide by making man extinct...
Oh man, I 'm getting LOST in this (presumably) Lindelof stuff !
Quote from: Skylark Duquesne on May 23, 2012, 12:42:23 PMEngineers as descendants of men. Space and time travellers [..] We created ourselves. Causality loop.
The following sentence is true. The previous sentence is false.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcQQJ_pJ47oC5qJtVpWBkV8sbB3CfByWwfRi3vILQthiqkBGYnOXZg&hash=25643fbd708140309dfc40d40a6da17383bdb628)
;D
Quote from: Skylark Duquesne on May 23, 2012, 12:42:23 PM
Quote from: 180924609 on May 22, 2012, 09:37:49 PM
WARNING - Serious story spoiler THEORY! I mean it! Its a good one though 8).
Spoiler
What if this very human looking 'sacrificial engineer' scene, that presumably takes place at the beginning of the movie during the so called 'beginning of time' sequence, is actually a bluff of Hitchcock proportions...
Imagine if the Dettifoss waterfall scene is actually taking place on a real 'alien' planet (i.e. NOT Earth!) in the distant future when the human race ascend to become the new Gods, the new inter planetary 'engineers'. ("We are the Gods now" - Peter Weyland, 2023)
This Daniel Twiss chap describes his character as a fairly young 'Engineer' - does this mean young as in, his race as a whole have only recently achieved God status?!
Prometheus final scene:
Zoom in on the saucer starship from the beginning of the movie to reveal the Weyland-Yutani logo.
W-Y Planetary Engineering, Building Better Worlds in the year 9595!
That's a very appealing theory. Engineers as descendants of men. Space and time travellers.
That would bring a supremely paradoxical answer to the eternal question : who created us ?
We created ourselves. Causality loop. Elsewhere, I suggested the giant stone head resembled Pearce. You seem to second that.
There appears to be dissension among the survivors of that decadent race, judging from the beheaded jockey corpse and the fleeing Engineer. Maybe the conflict revolves around the way history - the past - should be tampered with.
Then there would be something of Bradbury's A Sound of Thunder at the core of Prometheus.
"There will be no home to go back to" possibly means that if the past is once again modified by the Engineers' action, a different species may become dominant on Earth. It does not necessarily entail Armaggedon, or a brutal xenocide, but a cancellation of the random chain of events that led to men.
But then, if Engineers and Men are related, the first would commit suicide by making man extinct...
Oh man, I 'm getting LOST in this (presumably) Lindelof stuff !
Thats not quite what I was driving at. ;)
Spoiler
I actually proposed that the scene at the waterfall has nothing to do with Earth - it is just 'A Planet' in deep space in the far distant future. Mankind has evolved into a superior species, taking over as the new galactic engineers, and starting the cycle all over again. This scene is actually taking place long, long after the events of Prometheus!
What you are witnessing is Earth2 (3, 4...?!), started by human God-like descendants of Earth or at least, Weyland-Yutani Galacticorp circa the year 10,000!!
This would be a 'get out of jail free' card for me because it then means that we, the viewer did not actually witness Earth's prehistory at all in this movie. Leaving the exact details of the creation of life intact.
Probably wont be the case tho >:(
Quote from: 180924609 on May 23, 2012, 01:17:02 PMMankind has evolved into a superior species, taking over as the new galactic engineers, and starting the cycle all over again. [..] This would be a 'get out of jail free' card for me because it then means that we, the viewer did not actually witness Earth's prehistory at all in this movie. Leaving the exact details of the creation of life intact.
That is circular logic though. It allows for
any other alien race to also attain the same status. If we can evolve to be galactic engineers then any other species can do the same, and there is no reason that precludes that species from starting life as
we know it. It assumes that life began on earth and nowhere else.
Quote from: 180924609 on May 23, 2012, 01:17:02 PM
Thats not quite what I was driving at. ;)
Spoiler
I actually proposed that the scene at the waterfall has nothing to do with Earth - it is just 'A Planet' in deep space in the far distant future. Mankind has evolved into a superior species, taking over as the new galactic engineers, and starting the cycle all over again. This scene is actually taking place long, long after the events of Prometheus!
What you are witnessing is Earth2 (3, 4...?!), started by human God-like descendants of Earth or at least, Weyland-Yutani Galacticorp circa the year 10,000!!
This would be a 'get out of jail free' card for me because it then means that we, the viewer did not actually witness Earth's prehistory at all in this movie. Leaving the exact details of the creation of life intact.
Probably wont be the case tho >:(
I like it! Nice idea, and thinking "outside the box". Well done, 180924609. Although, you are almost certainly right...it ain't gonna happen. Also, it still begs the question as to why the SJ/engineers look are basically human/humanoid. You gotta' work that into your theory somehow. ;)
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 23, 2012, 01:38:15 PM
That is circular logic though. It allows for any other alien race to also attain the same status. If we can evolve to be galactic engineers then any other species can do the same, and there is no reason that precludes that species from starting life as we know it. It assumes that life began on earth and nowhere else.
I am thinking, Chris, that 180924609's hypothesis might still work if the term "galactic" engineers is more a metaphor. In other words, there still exists the possibility for Life arising through completely "natural" processes throughout our Galaxy (and the Universe, in general). The previous SJ/engineers, and their inheritors (us, in 180924609's hypothesis) only control a local (small) area of the Galaxy...and terra-form and seed Life throughout their small neighborhood. Possibly, there are other advanced civilizations doing the same thing in other parts of our Galaxy. So, there is a mix of intelligent Panspermia, as well as true ambiogenesis occuring at all times somewhere throughout the Milky Way.
Again, just expanding on 180924609's original idea, as a kind of fun thought experiment.
What are your thoughts?
Prometheus pretty much distance itself from the two Alien vs Predator movies.
Spoiler
In the original Alien, the crew encounter the 'Space Jockey', now known as an 'Engineer' (the name for the alien race) however, as this is a semi-prequel, the 'Engineers' have a much bigger part to play. My character is that of a fairly young 'Engineer' who ritualistically sacrifices himself in the opening scene. This sacrifice is very different to any others as I have to drink an ancient mix which causes my body to literally disintegrate into the water around me. This then provides the first building blocks for new life to form on the alien planet. There are two other 'Engineers' who are in the rest of the film and have fairly large parts, but you will have to wait for release to find out more.
AVP movies did no justice for the series for having such a half assed origin of how Weyland Industries discovered the Alien.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 23, 2012, 01:38:15 PM
Quote from: 180924609 on May 23, 2012, 01:17:02 PMMankind has evolved into a superior species, taking over as the new galactic engineers, and starting the cycle all over again. [..] This would be a 'get out of jail free' card for me because it then means that we, the viewer did not actually witness Earth's prehistory at all in this movie. Leaving the exact details of the creation of life intact.
That is circular logic though. It allows for any other alien race to also attain the same status. If we can evolve to be galactic engineers then any other species can do the same, and there is no reason that precludes that species from starting life as we know it. It assumes that life began on earth and nowhere else.
However great or godlike we might become one day, we will remain what we started as : somebody else's robots performing a programme whose finality cannot be apprehended.
David is pissed because he was made superior to man and yet is perceived as a dummy by his makers, the human crew suffer a major blow to their ego when they realize their makers were less than gods (and hardly good-mannered according to Sir Ridley), and the Engineers...?
The debate about whether we are alone or not in the universe is a moot one indeed. What matters is that intelligent life did appear somewhere in the cosmos, and that we are sure of. If the Milky Way is not teeming with life right now, it will be in a few billion years. Even if the many species that will populate it are all of human descent, they will necessarily be very diverse in morphology and culture due to their evolving in totally different environments - and their tinkering with their own genes.
In Charles Sheffield 's "Sight of Proteus", men have become so apt at transforming themselves through genetical engineering that the term "human" has been totally redefined. Hopefully Prometheus will induce us to redefine the term "alien".
If it does not, no big deal so long as it's a hell of a ghost train ride.
Quote from: Deuterium on May 23, 2012, 02:33:44 PMSo, there is a mix of intelligent Panspermia, as well as true ambiogenesis occuring at all times somewhere throughout the Milky Way.
Yes I think it's a good idea too, I guess my point was that it doesn't need to be a future evolution of us traveling back in time to create ourselves. If we can do it, some other species can do it; if we can create life and somehow guide it to becoming like ourselves, then so can any other life form. There is no need for us to be the originators of the human form to my mind. And as you say, if humans were created by an intelligent species (or our own time traveling ancestors) it doesn't automatically preclude life arising naturally elsewhere. The engineers might be an evolution of 'first' life, or maybe they were also created by another species who is an evolution of 'first' life, etc.
Quote from: Skylark Duquesne on May 24, 2012, 12:40:30 AMHowever great or godlike we might become one day, we will remain what we started as : somebody else's robots performing a programme whose finality cannot be apprehended.
Bleak mate, bleak! But also kind of poetic... ;)
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 24, 2012, 12:45:40 AM
Quote from: Deuterium on May 23, 2012, 02:33:44 PMSo, there is a mix of intelligent Panspermia, as well as true ambiogenesis occuring at all times somewhere throughout the Milky Way.
Yes I think it's a good idea too, I guess my point was that it doesn't need to be a future evolution of us traveling back in time to create ourselves. If we can do it, some other species can do it; if we can create life and somehow guide it to becoming like ourselves, then so can any other life form. There is no need for us to be the originators of the human form to my mind. And as you say, if humans were created by an intelligent species (or our own time traveling ancestors) it doesn't automatically preclude life arising naturally elsewhere. The engineers might be an evolution of 'first' life, or maybe they were also created by another species who is an evolution of 'first' life, etc.
Oh yes, I agree...backwards time travel is a deal breaker, and I will personally throw my popcorn at the screen if Prometheus invokes this concept in any way, shape, or form.
"We call them Engineers.
Why?
Because they Engineered us."
Hum... OK....
But who made the engineers?
There is no ending to that ^^
I just find how they get the name quite lame.
I would have prefered that they did not named them on screen.
OH WATCH OUT THE ENGINEER IS COMING!!!!
THAT ENGINEER IS REALLY MEAN...
"We call them creators.
Why?
Because they created us."
"Creator" has a religious connotation, it evokes a fearful reverence or subservience.
"Engineer" suggests a colder, mathematical mind, with dark designs and cryptic motivations.
I have an impression (which might prove completely wrong) that Scott's intention is to debunk the delusion(s) at the core of all monotheistic creeds.
I tought the same thing.
But this is not the implcations that bother or interest me.
It's to call them out loud like this.
No doubt it sounds grandiloquent, very much in tune with the main trailer's music. And it's likely to be a huge pain in the neck for people who do the foreign versions. How would you translate "they engineered us" in another language ? The result is going to be awkward any which way.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on May 24, 2012, 09:22:47 AMBut who made the engineers?
That was kinda of my point. The engineers might of derived from 'natural' processes, evolved mightily and then created us. The idea that we aren't of natural origin doesn't preclude our makers from being so.... I guess.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 24, 2012, 11:00:46 PM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on May 24, 2012, 09:22:47 AMBut who made the engineers?
That was kinda of my point. The engineers might of derived from 'natural' processes, evolved mightily and then created us. The idea that we aren't of natural origin doesn't preclude our makers from being so.... I guess.
This would also explain how unicorns are real too.
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 24, 2012, 11:08:31 PMThis would also explain how unicorns are real too.
Nope. :P
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 24, 2012, 11:08:31 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 24, 2012, 11:00:46 PM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on May 24, 2012, 09:22:47 AMBut who made the engineers?
That was kinda of my point. The engineers might of derived from 'natural' processes, evolved mightily and then created us. The idea that we aren't of natural origin doesn't preclude our makers from being so.... I guess.
This would also explain how unicorns are real too.
http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullNews.php?headline=Asian++unicorns++face++extinction+risk&NewsID=333372 (http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullNews.php?headline=Asian++unicorns++face++extinction+risk&NewsID=333372)
:P
Quote from: NGR01 on May 24, 2012, 09:16:07 AM
"We call them Engineers.
Why?
Because they Engineered us."
Hum... OK....
hahah, yeah I laughed a bit on that one too when watching the trailer
@deuterium
Thank you for comprehending and liking my Hitchcock twist, 'out of the box' idea.
Who knows, it may yet come to pass:
Spoiler
- Two distinct titles on the soundtrack; one called 'A Planet', the other 'Earth'
- Dettifoss Waterfall Engineer's body very human, as opposed to LV223 bio-mech engineer
- Peter Weyland almost certainly wants to become 'one of them'
- 'Saucer ship' nothing like anything LV223 or Giger
I suspect Ridley would love to end this movie with something awe inspiring like this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tombsofkobol.com%2Fimages%2Fclassic%2F2010web20a.jpg&hash=18a3e42ddf2fe47d066a7d5d98f75e37df25b28c)
Imagine how cool it would be if a closing scene of awesomeness was something engineered by....humans!
Anyways, Ridley has WETA and a bigger budget this time so...
more bucks, more Buck Rogers! ;)
Quote from: 180924609 on May 26, 2012, 07:02:53 PM
@deuterium
Thank you for comprehending and liking my Hitchcock twist, 'out of the box' idea.
Who knows, it may yet come to pass:
Spoiler
- Two distinct titles on the soundtrack; one called 'A Planet', the other 'Earth'
- Dettifoss Waterfall Engineer's body very human, as opposed to LV223 bio-mech engineer
- Peter Weyland almost certainly wants to become 'one of them'
- 'Saucer ship' nothing like anything LV223 or Giger
I suspect Ridley would love to end this movie with something awe inspiring like this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tombsofkobol.com%2Fimages%2Fclassic%2F2010web20a.jpg&hash=18a3e42ddf2fe47d066a7d5d98f75e37df25b28c)
Imagine how cool it would be if a closing scene of awesomeness was something engineered by....humans!
Anyways, Ridley has WETA and a bigger budget this time so...
more bucks, more Buck Rogers! ;)
Again, imaginative insights...and if there has to be a feed-back loop that somehow involves humanity, I would prefer your take on the concept.
...and you were the only one to notice my sig. based on "The Right Stuff". Not sure if anyone else happened to notice the "Ridley" reference / quote under my avatar, but it is a phrase uttered a few times during the film by Chuck Yeager (Sam Shepard), right before historical awesomeness would ensue. I thought it made for a nice "wink" to the artist behind Prometheus.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi47.tinypic.com%2F2diqfc0.jpg&hash=3b233ceb198219fbdba210b0547beea6823909ac)
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 24, 2012, 11:00:46 PM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on May 24, 2012, 09:22:47 AMBut who made the engineers?
That was kinda of my point. The engineers might of derived from 'natural' processes, evolved mightily and then created us. The idea that we aren't of natural origin doesn't preclude our makers from being so.... I guess.
The engineers made themselves. They don't even procreate, they just cre-ate (themselves) genetically, via some religious protocol of gene-sequencing that outlines what their race SHOULD be. And in the process of their demented quest for being perfect they eradicated all their women.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.tinypic.com%2Fsbq59t.jpg&hash=6f40cd53238a371cdea9b052260ccb7a6cc7f35a)
Bit of Thread Resurrection (wish I had the little meme on this PC)
As the initial link is dead, here is the text:
Interview with an A L I E N
This summer, something huge is coming. The master of science-fiction, after a 30 year
hiatus is returning to the genre he defined in what If Only predicts to be this summer's
greatest film, Ridley Scott's Prometheus. Surrounded by an extensive ad and viral campaign,
Prometheus is the tale of a manned space crew, venturing into the far reaches of the
universe, trying to find clues into the origins of humanity, and is expected to raise the bar
for all 2012 summer blockbusters as well as future sci-fi epics.
If you have been following the advertising campaign, in amongst the space cobras, melty
faces and all round terror, you may have caught a glimpse of a tall, nude life form enjoying
the view from an alien planet, and stomping round an alien ship, promising an answer to the
ever elusive 'Space Jockey' mystery surrounding Scott's 1979 classic Alien.
In a world exclusive, If Only has bagged an interview with this being, in the form of 22 year
old Daniel Twiss. Model and part time actor, Twiss spared some time to talk to us about his
role in Prometheus and perhaps provide some answers into just what the f**k the crew find
on this alien planet.
If Only: First and foremost, welcome to If Only and thank you for taking the time to answer some questions for us. To begin with, how did you manage to become a part of Prometheus?
Daniel Twiss: Hello If Only! I have been modelling for 5 years, and have done some small
acting parts before, but my agency managed to get me into the Nina Gold Casting for the
part of the 'Sacrifice Engineer'. It was a pretty quick casting by all accounts, but I got a call
the next day saying the casting director loved me and I got the part. I guess I just look like
a good alien.
We have seen the virals, the teasers and the trailers. We have seen the alien life
forms and the spacecraft from Scott's Alien. What information can you give us on
your character as the 'Space Engineer'?
In the original Alien, the crew encounter the 'Space Jockey', now known as an 'Engineer'
(the name for the alien race) however, as this is a semi-prequel, the 'Engineers'
have a much bigger part to play. My character is that of a fairly young 'Engineer'
who ritualistically sacrifices himself in the opening scene. This sacrifice is very different to
any others as I have to drink an ancient mix which causes my body to literally disintegrate
into the water around me. This then provides the first building blocks for new life to form
on the alien planet. There are two other 'Engineers' who are in the rest of the film and have
fairly large parts, but you will have to wait for release to find out more.
What direction, if any, were you given on playing this essential role?
To be honest, fairly little before the day actually came. The crew had changed the scene
quite a bit since the casting so I didn't know really what was happening. They also forgot to
send me my lines so I only received them the day before, but there were only a few words
in alien to learn so it wasn't too bad. On set, the crew were amazing and were quite flexible
to see what looks good on the day, so it was a lot of fun working with them all.
We know that Pinewood studios had to be extended to fit Scott's grand ideas,
and you had the chance to visit the set, what did you make of it?
I saw set of the alien spaceship and some extensive tunnels, where they did quite a lot of
filming, and it took up the whole of the 007 stage in Pinewood. The detail is incredible on
set and considering just how big it is, it will look amazing in 3-D.
You were also tasked to Iceland for a week long shoot (how nice), how does the
Icelandic landscape fit into Prometheus, an essentially space bound picture?
Iceland is the perfect place to film an alien landscape. Flying in it looked like a very un-
earthy, grey, volcanic landscape, and the Detifoss waterfalls in the North were a fantastic
backdrop to complete it.
You clearly do not have the physical characteristics of an alien, so how extensive
was the 'Sacrificial Engineer' make up and prosthetics?
The prosthetics were ridiculous, it took 10 hours to put the costume on, which was made up
of 27 separate silicon pieces which were glued onto me in a set order so that there were no
breaks in the suit. Without any CG it still looked like there was an alien walking around, and
it felt very odd looking on the mirror.
What was it like working with the godfather of science fiction, Sir Ridley Scott?
Ridley was unbelievable to work with. He is so focused and it is very obvious just how good
he is when you get a chance to talk to him about a scene. It was very intimidating at first
but his direction was fantastic and he couldn't have been nicer about them afterwards. He
even sat and watched back the shots with me in 3-D after filming which was probably the
highlight for me.
What does it feel like to be part of movie history in the making?
I don't really know yet, it was a surreal and amazing experience but I'll have to wait and
see once the film is out. It looks like it will be a big success so hopefully then I'll feel like a
movie star.
Thanks Daniel, and we will see you on screen soon.
Prometheus hits the big screen on June 1st in the UK and June 8th in the US, and it's pretty
safe to say that If Only will be waiting in line on the day of release, chest-bursting with
anticipation.
If you haven't seen any of the trailers yet, prepare to have your mind blown, featuring
Daniel in the initial sequence.