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Author Topic: Alien movements following Parker and Lamberts deaths  (Read 2361 times)

Trash Queen
Apr 20, 2021, 03:25:48 PM
Reply #30 on: Apr 20, 2021, 03:25:48 PM
That's all completely true.

But I do still think something human exists in them anyway.

Makes me wonder though if on a partially related note, the Facehugger that got Ripley Eight in Resurrection, achieved it's purpose but it had no effect because of Eight's biology.

That's an interesting new wrinkle that I hadn't thought of. If we start going down the "facehugger injects a form of black goo" path, rather than the embryo idea, I guess it would stand to reason that Ripley 8 would have a kind of immunity. Makes you wonder if they same would apply if a regular human had a developing chestburster surgically removed, then got 'hugged again...

I take it then you have not read Alien The Cold Forge, Into Charybdis or looked into the new RPG, as it is already heading down that road.

Or it makes Eight a carrier, in the vein of Twenty Eight Weeks or Days Later, in terms of the body carrying the ingredients to continue the species not necessarily a direct infector themselves.

I'm not sure about immunity though in the case of a normal human being.


The Necronoir
Apr 20, 2021, 03:31:53 PM
Reply #31 on: Apr 20, 2021, 03:31:53 PM
I take it then you have not read Alien The Cold Forge, Into Charybdis or looked into the new RPG, as it is already heading down that road.

Oh, I'm aware that the recent EU stuff has been going that way. I meant more along the lines of whether we, as fans, choose to go down that route in terms of our own head canon. I know a lot of people who aren't keen on the prequels don't really want to embrace that. I'm on the fence about it, to be honest. It could open the path to some interesting explorations, but it also causes a lot of issues if it isn't done intelligently. For one thing, it seems like a much less efficient mode of infection than the pods and spores we see in Covenant.

We're getting way off track here now though, so I'm content to leave it an open question.


Trash Queen
Apr 20, 2021, 04:05:15 PM
Reply #32 on: Apr 20, 2021, 04:05:15 PM
I have explained before why I see no issue with that myself:

Quote
We know Ridley Scott's understanding on it's influenced by our real world, and in that respect as he often likes to say, The Pathogen's got a logic to it of clearing out the meat as fast as possible and then die out so things can start again in a way the Alien does not.

I believe David's the one that instituted the Alien having black skin and something evocative of biomechanical beginnings, The Pathogen's always produces the opposite, white skin and nothing biomechanical present.

But even if that's revealed not to be the case, the fact the Alien's a rapist's part of the focal point of it's identity with or without a creator's influence, able to spread farther through longer incubation periods, self sustain, and then stay dormant waiting for anything that's not itself to find it again in essence farming anywhere it's able to take over completely.

The Alien and The Pathogen exist as fundamentally unique from each other in this way, related in that one comes from the other, but the latter does not carry all the features of the former that much's clear.


Basically yes it is more efficient, excessively actually, because nothing's alive to spread it.


razeak
Apr 20, 2021, 08:12:27 PM
Reply #33 on: Apr 20, 2021, 08:12:27 PM
I think the sadism fits since it took its time killing both.  Its a bit more interesting too.

True sadism requires a psychological association with the target though. The enjoyment in inflicting pain derives from identifying with the other individual to the point that you can put yourself in their shoes and imagine the pain they are feeling. I think it makes the alien less alien if we stray too far down that path. We might view a cat toying with a mouse as sadistic, but that's the result of personifying the animal. I doubt it has that significance for the cat itself. It certainly makes no sense from a survival point of view.

A quick wikipedia look doesn't mention that requirement of identifying with the victim. That's a very interesting concept though. Is that truly how it is?

I think of the alien as being a higher order of intelligence than a cat. That's always been my take. Dolphins are kind of messed up too

The idea of Kane being a closet sadist and the Alien picking that up is a neat concept too. I hadn't ever thought of that angle. Or at least I don't recall doing so.  We have to remember comparing the alien to the example of accusing someone of inheriting a parent's negative traits is a different thing entirely. The alien exists (from an in-universe perspective) as something that we don't fully understand.  It could merely amplify our normal traits, let alone our abnormal traits.




Immortan Jonesy
Apr 21, 2021, 01:20:40 AM
Reply #34 on: Apr 21, 2021, 01:20:40 AM
Is there any detailed information on how Eggmorphing works? I mean...What does the Alien have to do to make people morph into eggs?

We have to remember comparing the alien to the example of accusing someone of inheriting a parent's negative traits is a different thing entirely. The alien exists (from an in-universe perspective) as something that we don't fully understand.  It could merely amplify our normal traits, let alone our abnormal traits.

I still don't understand where that came from. Because from me it wasn't.  :laugh:


SM
Apr 21, 2021, 01:37:10 AM
Reply #35 on: Apr 21, 2021, 01:37:10 AM
Quote
Is there any detailed information on how Eggmorphing works? I mean...What does the Alien have to do to make people morph into eggs?

No.

I liken it to a caterpillar becoming a butterfly, but that's not based on anything other than one thing transforming into something else that's pretty different.


Immortan Jonesy
Apr 21, 2021, 02:12:27 AM
Reply #36 on: Apr 21, 2021, 02:12:27 AM
Quote
Is there any detailed information on how Eggmorphing works? I mean...What does the Alien have to do to make people morph into eggs?

No.

I liken it to a caterpillar becoming a butterfly, but that's not based on anything other than one thing transforming into something else that's pretty different.

It makes sense, and the mystery gives it a certain charm.


razeak
Apr 21, 2021, 02:25:10 AM
Reply #37 on: Apr 21, 2021, 02:25:10 AM
Is there any detailed information on how Eggmorphing works? I mean...What does the Alien have to do to make people morph into eggs?

We have to remember comparing the alien to the example of accusing someone of inheriting a parent's negative traits is a different thing entirely. The alien exists (from an in-universe perspective) as something that we don't fully understand.  It could merely amplify our normal traits, let alone our abnormal traits.

I still don't understand where that came from. Because from me it wasn't.  :laugh:

huh? I wasn't saying anything against anyone :)

« Last Edit: Apr 21, 2021, 02:58:32 AM by razeak »

The Necronoir
Apr 21, 2021, 02:16:34 PM
Reply #38 on: Apr 21, 2021, 02:16:34 PM
I think the sadism fits since it took its time killing both.  Its a bit more interesting too.

True sadism requires a psychological association with the target though. The enjoyment in inflicting pain derives from identifying with the other individual to the point that you can put yourself in their shoes and imagine the pain they are feeling. I think it makes the alien less alien if we stray too far down that path. We might view a cat toying with a mouse as sadistic, but that's the result of personifying the animal. I doubt it has that significance for the cat itself. It certainly makes no sense from a survival point of view.

A quick wikipedia look doesn't mention that requirement of identifying with the victim. That's a very interesting concept though. Is that truly how it is?

I think of the alien as being a higher order of intelligence than a cat. That's always been my take. Dolphins are kind of messed up too

The idea of Kane being a closet sadist and the Alien picking that up is a neat concept too. I hadn't ever thought of that angle. Or at least I don't recall doing so.  We have to remember comparing the alien to the example of accusing someone of inheriting a parent's negative traits is a different thing entirely. The alien exists (from an in-universe perspective) as something that we don't fully understand.  It could merely amplify our normal traits, let alone our abnormal traits.

I just had a look over the wikipedia stuff myself. I think it doesn't mention that aspect because it's written on the presumption that it's being applied to human beings within a society, which is fair enough as there are few animals that are mentally capable of it.

According to that presumption, we naturally project our own state and wellbeing onto the people around us, ideally for the purposes of creating an empathetic bond with those we deal with on a daily basis. True sadism twists that association so that the pain we might observe in others no longer results in pain to us, but delivers pleasure. It still fundamentally relies on putting yourself into the other person's shoes though. A cat toying with a mouse (probably) isn't truly sadistic because the mouse is not an entity it identifies with - it's just potential food.

I'm not seeing anything in Kane that makes me think he might be a closest sadist, but he does exhibit another interesting psychological trait - borderline compulsive risk-taking. At every point in the story where there's a question mark hanging over what to do next, he is the loudest voice spurring them on, despite the risks. It makes his demise poetic, in the same way that most of the deaths in the film are. Brett dies being gormless, Dallas trying to be the fearless captain, Lambert being a nervous wreck, and Parker being all gung-ho. Ripley survives by being "a bitch", as Ridley labelled her during production.


 

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