It's actually pretty dang good! Super cheesy, but really fun. It pays respect to both franchises while still doing its own thing and having fun with the ip.
Super underrated imo
It is not the worst, Requiem has that status.
AVP could have been so much better, I give them props for what they did in making the movie but it just didn't hit the target.
Bland characters and hardly any versing.
And said versing was them just rolling around on the floor.
AvP isn't perfect but it looks better better in retrospect. I think both species were respected.
Requiem makes it look like Citizen Kane by Comparison.
^^^^
This made me laugh out loud. :D
5 Stars * * * * * for your literary/film comparison.
AVP 2004 is decent. I believe Requiem is what truly tainted the series. If the second film was good then they would have been on their way to make a truly iconic crossover trilogy.
AVP is quality b movie material although the cast of human characters are boring.
It's goofy cheesy Boys Own Adventure stuff updated for the 21st Century. Anyone who's read and enjoyed Burroughs, Doyle or Haggard can come at this movie with that sense of fun.
As for being respectful goes, I think this is the only movie where the Director didn't embellish the Aliens with additional life cycle features. It's just the core egg, facehugger, chestburster and adult Alien stages. There's a Queen (added by Cameron) and we see the birth of the Predalien (Non-human hybridisation added by Fincher) at the end. Anderson only included life cycle features that were extant at the time - he didn't add to it himself.
There's no eggmorphing (re-introduced by Scott in 2003), no birth barfing (came later, anyway) nothing was altered, added or changed by Paul Anderson.
He's the only Director to have done so. So respectful to source material? Yeah. I get that.
The Human characters weren't great or memorable and the Aliens were a little too reminiscent of the ALIEN: Resurrection design but they were good enough when onscreen. Grid becoming identifiable was a fun decision to help distinguish him from the pack. You know, this is the Alien that killed 2 Predators! He's the one to watch out for.
It's a fun, solid average movie. It's not great by any means but it's certainly more watchable than AvP-R. Would love to see a re-edited version of that movie with better lighting.
As for another one? I'd love to see a third movie, to cap it off as a trilogy. Personally, I'd set it on Earth again to keep it thematically consistent with the previous 2 movies and start with the Queen crawling out of the ocean and into a large outflow pipe just outside a metropolitan area and nesting the sewers. Then cut to a scene of police officers discussing the increase in homeless people disappearing from the streets; and then build the story on that premise.
Hell, it would be cheap. Yeah, it would be cheesy. Sure it would simply amount to being a remake of 'THEM'. But as a capstone on a commonly themed Earthbound trilogy with Aliens, Predators and Humans duking it out in a decayed urban environment, it would work - and it doesn't need to connect with either of the source Properties any more than the use of the titular characters. AvP is its own Universe and for all it cares the events in either property never happen. Besides, it wouldn't be any worse than what we've seen before.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: windebieste on Sep 30, 2018, 09:17:16 PM
It's goofy cheesy Boys Own Adventure stuff updated for the 21st Century. Anyone who's read and enjoyed Burroughs, Doyle or Haggard can come at this movie with that sense of fun.
As for being respectful goes, I think this is the only movie where the Director didn't embellish the Aliens with additional life cycle features. It's just the core egg, facehugger, chestburster and adult Alien stages. There's a Queen (added by Cameron) and we see the birth of the Predalien (Non-human hybridisation added by Fincher) at the end. Anderson only included life cycle features that were extant at the time - he didn't add to it himself.
There's no eggmorphing (re-introduced by Scott in 2003), no birth barfing (came later, anyway) nothing was altered, added or changed by Paul Anderson.
He's the only Director to have done so. So respectful to source material? Yeah. I get that.
The Human characters weren't great or memorable and the Aliens were a little too reminiscent of the ALIEN: Resurrection design but they were good enough when onscreen. Grid becoming identifiable was a fun decision to help distinguish him from the pack. You know, this is the Alien that killed 2 Predators! He's the one to watch out for.
It's a fun, solid average movie. It's not great by any means but it's certainly more watchable than AvP-R. Would love to see a re-edited version of that movie with better lighting.
As for another one? I'd love to see a third movie, to cap it off as a trilogy. Personally, I'd set it on Earth again to keep it thematically consistent with the previous 2 movies and start with the Queen crawling out of the ocean and into a large outflow pipe just outside a metropolitan area and nesting the sewers. Then cut to a scene of police officers discussing the increase in homeless people disappearing from the streets; and then build the story on that premise.
Hell, it would be cheap. Yeah, it would be cheesy. Sure it would simply amount to being a remake of 'THEM'. But as a capstone on a commonly themed Earthbound trilogy with Aliens, Predators and Humans duking it out in a decayed urban environment, it would work - and it doesn't need to connect with either of the source Properties any more than the use of the titular characters. AvP is its own Universe and for all it cares the events in either property never happen. Besides, it wouldn't be any worse than what we've seen before.
-Windebieste.
Movie-wise, he did alter the life-cycle in terms of speed which is inconsistent within the movie itself, Scar takes ages to birth an Alien while Rousseau is killed like seconds after regaining consciousness.
I enjoyed Requiem more than AvP and The Predator...can't say it's an objectively better film though
I think I prefer Reqiuem just because the Predator was actually recognisable as a Predator.
In appearance, Wolf is a spectacular action-figure.
But little else.
Quote from: happypred on Oct 01, 2018, 12:48:34 AM
I enjoyed Requiem more than AvP and The Predator...can't say it's an objectively better film though
I guess I'm around the same.
Quote from: The Old One on Oct 01, 2018, 03:08:54 AM
In appearance, Wolf is a spectacular action-figure.
But little else.
True. But AVP didn't even get the appearance right.
ADI never have, and I loved their work on Aliens and A3.
ADI didn't work on Aliens, though. Gillis and Woodruff and some of the guys did, but it was through Stan Winston's studio, and Stan was running the show. Huge difference.
Indispensable distinction. Apologies.
There are some moments when it's just Ian Whyte and the suits don't look soooo bulky. But yeah, it's not a terrible film but it's not the AvP I wanted. I still like the shifting pyramid/maze angle and I think that's pretty interesting.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 01, 2018, 08:13:34 AM
There are some moments when it's just Ian Whyte and the suits don't look soooo bulky. But yeah, it's not a terrible film but it's not the AvP I wanted. I still like the shifting pyramid/maze angle and I think that's pretty interesting.
Awesome location for a film. Dark, dingy and intricate. Much better than some generic suburb.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 01, 2018, 08:13:34 AM
There are some moments when it's just Ian Whyte and the suits don't look soooo bulky.
In some parts Celtic actually looks pretty good, after he removed part of his armor he didn't bother me. But Scar, now that was a failure, his armor looked even bulkier than the other 2 for some reason, those fat dreads together with the big backpack, he looked like a stocky robot.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 01, 2018, 08:13:34 AM
I still like the shifting pyramid/maze angle and I think that's pretty interesting.
It was way underused after the alien vs predator conflict started, I suppose the lack of more fights is to blame, just another idea that wasn't brought to its full potential. Despite not liking them bringing the pyramid stuff to AVP2010, the shifting pyramid multiplayer map was fun.
I'll say this for AVP: They tried. They knew it wasn't Shakespeare, they didn't have pretensions of being anything other than a fun video game romp, and they tried to make it as good as they could under those circumstances... That's the difference between AVP and AVPR; AVP was a failure, yes, but at least it had ideas. Reqium was just... "duh, what if the predalen barfs babys into the ladys tummy and dey eat the other babys huh duh."
Seems little contradictory. How is egg-barfing not 'ideas'?
It is more like AVP had good or at least well intentioned ideas while Requiem had terrible ideas.
AVP:R was in poor taste. I get that they wanted to react to the horrorless AvP but I though that their ideas were juvenile. Like kids thinking up the "sickest shit" they could.
I watched Alien for the first time with my daughter last night. It's amazing how much you DON'T see. Yet, she was on the edge of her seat, getting the nark with Ripley every time she didn't pick up her flame unit. I wish I hadn't shown her Aliens first a while back to be honest.
Juvenile is the most apt description of AvP:R.
Quote from: SM on Oct 02, 2018, 12:41:40 AM
Seems little contradictory. How is egg-barfing not 'ideas'?
Because it's stupid. I guess I should have specified "
good ideas" (shape shifting pyramid, 'Grid' alien, Predator choke wire, etc.) Setting it in Antarctica, for example - Setting it in the present day is still stupid, but by going for the Lovecraft homage, they at least gestured towards Alien's pop culture lineage. The egg-barfing is just 'dude, what if the Predalien's face
was the facehugger...?'
An idea is an idea.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/muZkpJaYw1PvW/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5bb41bf070744b634178f9a5)
Just to give you an idea about the difference in quality between AVP and Avpr: AVP has a scene where Sebastian asks lex about the whale bones at the station, she tells him that this station was abandoned in 1904 and then proceeds to fire a flare over the cliff. We see the water tower and icy water surface. In one short scene we learn about what happened at the whaling station and we get a nice bit of foreshadowing to the final battle with the queen. I especially love the inclusion of the whale bones since they're the only reason lex didn't get killed by the queen in 5 seconds.
AVPR didn't have any semblance of clever writing. It's just a bunch of random shit happening for 90 minutes.
Quote from: Naginata on Oct 02, 2018, 09:21:29 PM
Quote from: SM on Oct 02, 2018, 12:41:40 AM
Seems little contradictory. How is egg-barfing not 'ideas'?
Because it's stupid. I guess I should have specified "good ideas" (shape shifting pyramid, 'Grid' alien, Predator choke wire, etc.) Setting it in Antarctica, for example - Setting it in the present day is still stupid, but by going for the Lovecraft homage, they at least gestured towards Alien's pop culture lineage. The egg-barfing is just 'dude, what if the Predalien's face was the facehugger...?'
I'd very much argue setting it on present day earth, in a shape-shifting pyramid in Antarctica is just as silly as egg-barfing.
I dunno - I thought that was as good an idea as you could have given the scenario. I think it's more about tone to be honest. Maybe the audience had just run out of "I'll give it a chance" by the time we got to pregnant ladies and egg-barfing.
At least the whole pyramid thing fitted with the aesthetic and had even been set-up in the flash-back.
But no one ever comes away from a conversation about these movies thinking "I'm really glad they weren't set in the future with space marines." :D :D
It has decent production values and all that, it's admirable for trying to be a big event movie, it's just that the execution is incredibly schlocky.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Oct 05, 2018, 07:26:25 AM
Quote from: Naginata on Oct 02, 2018, 09:21:29 PM
Quote from: SM on Oct 02, 2018, 12:41:40 AM
Seems little contradictory. How is egg-barfing not 'ideas'?
Because it's stupid. I guess I should have specified "good ideas" (shape shifting pyramid, 'Grid' alien, Predator choke wire, etc.) Setting it in Antarctica, for example - Setting it in the present day is still stupid, but by going for the Lovecraft homage, they at least gestured towards Alien's pop culture lineage. The egg-barfing is just 'dude, what if the Predalien's face was the facehugger...?'
I'd very much argue setting it on present day earth, in a shape-shifting pyramid in Antarctica is just as silly as egg-barfing.
I'd very much argue that they're not even close.
^ An idea is an idea.
That it is.
Quote from: windebieste on Sep 30, 2018, 09:17:16 PM
As for being respectful goes, I think this is the only movie where the Director didn't embellish the Aliens with additional life cycle features. It's just the core egg, facehugger, chestburster and adult Alien stages. There's a Queen (added by Cameron) and we see the birth of the Predalien (Non-human hybridisation added by Fincher) at the end. Anderson only included life cycle features that were extant at the time - he didn't add to it himself.
I do agree. Except for the ramping up of the life-cycle's speed, I would concur that AvP was very respectful to the Alien species.
However, AvP respectful to the Predators? Not so much. The terrible changes made to the Yautja facially, to the bulky armor, to the ridiculously long guantlet blades, to the criminal change of the Predator ship interior from the steamy, ancient and tribal, wonderful design established in "Predator 2" to a cold steel, more human technological design in "AVP". Nope.
At least the Strause brothers tried to bring back the old designs where they could in the sequel, when developing the Predator homeworld etc. "AVPR" was much more respectful to the Predators than "AVP".
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 24, 2018, 09:08:52 PM
However, AvP respectful to the Predators? Not so much. The terrible changes made to the Yautja facially, to the bulky armor, to the ridiculously long guantlet blades,
I continue to stand by my opinion that when it's just Ian in the suit, the AvP's more armoured appearance does look pretty damn sweet. It's just those group shots with the shorter guys that don't look good.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/02082016_01.jpg)
Quoteto the criminal change of the Predator ship interior from the steamy, ancient and tribal, wonderful design established in "Predator 2" to a cold steel, more human technological design in "AVP". Nope.
It's a damn shame we haven't seen a return to this aesthetic. :'( They'll always be Predator 2 and Primal Hunt, though.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 24, 2018, 10:29:15 PM
I continue to stand by my opinion that when it's just Ian in the suit, the AvP's more armoured appearance does look pretty damn sweet. It's just those group shots with the shorter guys that don't look good.
Ian did always wear it well. Only Kevin did it better, in my opinion!
I'm curious how each species was given respect. To me, it feels like one of those godawful comic books but with more cumbersome Predators. The Aliens in this have their moments but are also shown to be completely daft.
For me, this movie's highlight is the great artistic camera work and neat little touches which you can tell come from someone who has a passion for it. Look at the shots of Antarctica as they sail through the ice, the Predator ship that silently flies overhead of an unsuspecting person, the hibernating Queen as she rises up on her hoist into the pagan-looking altar. There's many more examples, but all of this sort of stuff is fantastic. It's just a damn shame the characters and the creatures are terrible.
The predator ship silently flying overhead is one of my favorite aspects too.
Totally agreed PsyKore but I also love the over-extended wristblades.
Delicious overkill.
I always dug the double extend. Flick, shtick, flick again, shtick. More blade than you can throw a stick at.
Yes! So ridiculous, I love it.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/3455a9d5c68af60c2c38dac9818ae105/tumblr_oqcbqln32w1vlcstlo2_640.gif)
You gotta have that reach for the Aliens! I'm disappointed we never actually got to really see any extended blade action. I think Scar double shticks when he kills Quinn but can't really remember any other occasions.
Yeah, I think you're correct.
It would have been interesting to see Chopper use those arm-scythes. I wonder if they'd have really helped at all.
If they were not acid resistant, then they would only get one good use and the risk of the Chopper getting splashed would always be there.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 17, 2019, 10:11:47 PM
I always dug the double extend. Flick, shtick, flick again, shtick. More blade than you can throw a stick at.
I'm fairly certain that in one of the double extends, the blades actually flip around and end up curved the opposite way.
I'm sure these longer blades appeared purely because of Anderson's mentality "bigger - better". Not fan of them honestly.
Superior range is just more effective against the Alien (acid defense) -I imagine, although it's never used for it.
Quote from: Stitch on Jul 19, 2019, 06:53:52 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 17, 2019, 10:11:47 PM
I always dug the double extend. Flick, shtick, flick again, shtick. More blade than you can throw a stick at.
I'm fairly certain that in one of the double extends, the blades actually flip around and end up curved the opposite way.
Celtic certainly flips them around during his scrap, but I don't recall if it was double-extended. I don't recall them looking that large during that fight.
Instead of flipping blades...how about double edged blades that don't melt, like their spears, which don't melt
Helps balance things out if all their weapons aren't invincible.
They can have their acid proof weapons, if they keep the acid blood the dangerous factor in melee that it should be as far as I am concerned.
In one of the old AvP comics they depicted it perfectly. A young and inexperienced predator (Light Stepper?) gets pressured by an alien, he wants to end it quickly and decisively and goes for a decapitation despite it beeing very close to him due to inexperience or need to end it quickly because he is starting to get overpowered and gets royaly screwed because of the fontaine of acid blood.
To know when to strike without getting showered by acid should be part of the challenge.
They have laser guided plasma cannons.
Acid corroding some of their melee weapons is fair.
Why does it have to be fair?
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/eea713d0123015218157d1212b14de06/tumblr_p9whmqtCij1rf1yd3o9_r1_500.gif)
It doesn't, the Alien's got the physical advantage the Predator's got the advantage of range.
Honestly, it's more of just an internal logic issue. They have spears that don't melt...yet their armor and wrist blades melt? I'm sure we can fansplain something but it's a legitimate whinge. And Predators are unfair cheaters anyway so...*shrugs*
Worst part is not making the chains that holded the Queen acid proof. If you can make the spears immune why not that? Risk the Queen escaping just because...? I know Predators like challenge but this is dumb, if they want to fight Queens they can just go off to Xeno Prime, this one was not meant for that.
Letting Scar fight her was dumb too, that wasn't part of ritual, the kid died for nothing, they lost a Queen and just watched instead of capturing her back. I wonder if they were planning to stop the rituals on Earth or something, would explain why they allowed Scar to blow up their 6000 year old pyramid.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 14, 2019, 12:43:07 PM
Worst part is not making the chains that holded the Queen acid proof. If you can make the spears immune why not that? Risk the Queen escaping just because...? I know Predators like challenge but this is dumb, if they want to fight Queens they can just go off to Xeno Prime, this one was not meant for that.
Letting Scar fight her was dumb too, that wasn't part of ritual, the kid died for nothing, they lost a Queen and just watched instead of capturing her back. I wonder if they were planning to stop the rituals on Earth or something, would explain why they allowed Scar to blow up their 6000 year old pyramid.
I've never really considered it, but when you think about it, it
is sort of ridiculous. I'm sure the writers thought it made for a "good story" and possibly a setup for a future sequel if they want to revisit the queen re-emerging from the depths, but it's not logical from the Predator's perspective. Queens are a big deal in Predator culture. Wouldn't they want to re-capture her, or
all participate in bringing her down for the glory of the kill?
Great points Samhain!
There was no much lack of thought, logic and previous Predalore* that went into AVP. I guess that's Paul W.S. Anderson for you. :-\
* Predator lore
Quote from: Wysps on Oct 14, 2019, 01:49:18 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 14, 2019, 12:43:07 PM
Worst part is not making the chains that holded the Queen acid proof. If you can make the spears immune why not that? Risk the Queen escaping just because...? I know Predators like challenge but this is dumb, if they want to fight Queens they can just go off to Xeno Prime, this one was not meant for that.
Letting Scar fight her was dumb too, that wasn't part of ritual, the kid died for nothing, they lost a Queen and just watched instead of capturing her back. I wonder if they were planning to stop the rituals on Earth or something, would explain why they allowed Scar to blow up their 6000 year old pyramid.
I've never really considered it, but when you think about it, it is sort of ridiculous. I'm sure the writers thought it made for a "good story" and possibly a setup for a future sequel if they want to revisit the queen re-emerging from the depths, but it's not logical from the Predator's perspective. Queens are a big deal in Predator culture. Wouldn't they want to re-capture her, or all participate in bringing her down for the glory of the kill?
Why would they interfere in Scar's initiation? They nuke initiation sites which get out of hand - which include Queens.
And from a story point of view, it would've been lame for them to swoop in a save the day.
Quote from: SM on Oct 14, 2019, 07:46:03 PM
Quote from: Wysps on Oct 14, 2019, 01:49:18 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 14, 2019, 12:43:07 PM
Worst part is not making the chains that holded the Queen acid proof. If you can make the spears immune why not that? Risk the Queen escaping just because...? I know Predators like challenge but this is dumb, if they want to fight Queens they can just go off to Xeno Prime, this one was not meant for that.
Letting Scar fight her was dumb too, that wasn't part of ritual, the kid died for nothing, they lost a Queen and just watched instead of capturing her back. I wonder if they were planning to stop the rituals on Earth or something, would explain why they allowed Scar to blow up their 6000 year old pyramid.
I've never really considered it, but when you think about it, it is sort of ridiculous. I'm sure the writers thought it made for a "good story" and possibly a setup for a future sequel if they want to revisit the queen re-emerging from the depths, but it's not logical from the Predator's perspective. Queens are a big deal in Predator culture. Wouldn't they want to re-capture her, or all participate in bringing her down for the glory of the kill?
Why would they interfere in Scar's initiation? They nuke initiation sites which get out of hand - which include Queens.
And from a story point of view, it would've been lame for them to swoop in a save the day.
Why would they allow a human to partake in that initiation to begin with (i.e. fighting the queen)? I see no difference between them allowing an outsider to "help" with his initiation and them joining in the fray. In the end, he's truly not doing it on his own.
Its all plot induced stupidity.
Anderson wanted a human-predator team-up and a Queen boss fight so he had included it no matter how. Not only it should be considered cheating because its a test to prove you are big boy that can handle things on your own, but did Scar seriously thought a girl with a spear would help him stab aliens to death? That's cute. At least with Dachande, Machiko had a gun and it was a survival situation. Scar just had to leave the pyramid, he killed an alien, got the marking and the plasma caster. You are a man Scar, now run for it dumbass.
Fighting a Queen wasn't part of the ritual, the 3 were there to fight human hosted drones, nothing more. The situation never got out of hand in any way. How many aliens were even alive at this point? Less than 10 and 1 angry Queen. There were hundreds of Predators up there. They can easily hold the Queen off and clean up the rest of the hive down there, they must have done the same in 1904, 1804... since there were no signs of previous hives in the pyramid despite the Queen laying eggs multiple times over the last thousands of years. So there was no reason to blow up the pyramid at all, if Scar had made it out alive he should be sent to keep Scarface company for all the crap he pulled.
Quote from: Wysps on Oct 14, 2019, 08:55:28 PM
Quote from: SM on Oct 14, 2019, 07:46:03 PM
Quote from: Wysps on Oct 14, 2019, 01:49:18 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 14, 2019, 12:43:07 PM
Worst part is not making the chains that holded the Queen acid proof. If you can make the spears immune why not that? Risk the Queen escaping just because...? I know Predators like challenge but this is dumb, if they want to fight Queens they can just go off to Xeno Prime, this one was not meant for that.
Letting Scar fight her was dumb too, that wasn't part of ritual, the kid died for nothing, they lost a Queen and just watched instead of capturing her back. I wonder if they were planning to stop the rituals on Earth or something, would explain why they allowed Scar to blow up their 6000 year old pyramid.
I've never really considered it, but when you think about it, it is sort of ridiculous. I'm sure the writers thought it made for a "good story" and possibly a setup for a future sequel if they want to revisit the queen re-emerging from the depths, but it's not logical from the Predator's perspective. Queens are a big deal in Predator culture. Wouldn't they want to re-capture her, or all participate in bringing her down for the glory of the kill?
Why would they interfere in Scar's initiation? They nuke initiation sites which get out of hand - which include Queens.
And from a story point of view, it would've been lame for them to swoop in a save the day.
Why would they allow a human to partake in that initiation to begin with (i.e. fighting the queen)? I see no difference between them allowing an outsider to "help" with his initiation and them joining in the fray. In the end, he's truly not doing it on his own.
But they'd still be interfering with a judgement call. Once the fight is finished they can judge whether his actions deemed him worthy or not.
Which they did. By honouring him
and Lex.
What would it do for Scar's status if the others Predators had to come and save him during his initiation ritual? I really don't think that's how those things work.
I get what your saying, but IMO in the end it still doesn't make sense. They kind of allowed Lex to save him, so in essence he didn't complete the initiation in the way it was intended. I like how Samhain put it - he won by cheating at his own initiation, including an outsider into the battle.
By blooding her, Scar didn't consider her an outsider. Whether one likes the team-up angle or not, there were three Predators that went into the temple and they would've worked together to fight the Queen had they survived. In that regard, Scar fighting with Lex - fighting a Queen hand to hand, no less - isn't any different to fighting the Queen and teaming up with another Predator.
If he cheated - they wouldn't have paid their respects and probably would've killed Lex.
Right, and I think that's where the hang up is. The representation of the Predators, how we know them to behave, doesn't quite line up with what we're given in the movie. I'm for the most part OK with it, but I have to admit that it only makes sense for the movie, and not with the mythos of Predator culture from what we understood pre-movie.
Would the group of Predators have considered it cheating? I *believe* they would have, just based on what we've been given in the comics as far as representation goes. It takes multiple Predators under normal circumstances to take down one queen. I would imagine that, sticking to comic book guidelines, if a queen got loose, the others would immediately join in to try and contain it, especially since the object of the hunt wasn't the queen to begin with. But that's pre-movie stuff.
And to add - I'm all for the team up, I liked it. Not what I was expecting, but certainly enjoyable. I've stood up for her many times :) But I also have to agree with some of the critiques here, despite my loyalty to the movie.
I don't think you can factor in any 'lore' from anything other than the other films. And we'd never seen them go up against Aliens before that. We know that a single warrior is regarded as a worthy addition for the trophy wall.
Lex and Scar took down a Queen, just as Machiko and Broken Tusk did in the comic, so I'm not sure they need to go all in just because a Queen showed up. Queens are big but not the greatest at fighting. If they wanted it alive, then yes, normal circumstances would be with a half a dozen Predators.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 14, 2019, 09:34:15 AM
Honestly, it's more of just an internal logic issue. They have spears that don't melt...yet their armor and wrist blades melt? I'm sure we can fansplain something but it's a legitimate whinge. And Predators are unfair cheaters anyway so...*shrugs*
I thought the reasoning behind that is the spears are made from alien armour, which would be it's nature be acid resistant, but the other stuff isn't.
Are you thinking of Lex's spear, made from an Alien tail? Because I think the rest of us are talking about Scar's metallic spear.
You can find a rationale in weapons with range = acid proof, weapons without range = not. The ceremonial dagger may or may not be acid proof; by the time Scar uses it to carve up the Alien, the blood may have lost its potency as Bishop explains in Aliens.
Then you get the net...
Yeah, or equipped without the highest quality gear as it is a test.
Just re-watched it, and I think that's going to be the last time. Just, does not improve with age.
A fine wine it is not. :)
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Dec 16, 2019, 04:01:33 PM
Just re-watched it, and I think that's going to be the last time. Just, does not improve with age.
Liar
I'm really not, I'm done.
Yeah, yeah. Sooner or later. Meet you in year or two .
It has some scenes I still find cool, but its definitely one of those movies that you put on to drunkenly roast with your friends.
I still like the first act to be honest. :)
I like the attack on the camp, but even that, is severely neutered.
Agreed
It's a pity, I think it had potential.
Imo, it's just interesting enough to not have my head in a book/magazine/computer the entire movie. But insert any other two alien species, I wouldn't have watched it again past the first viewing.
I wasn't really keen on the Cetic fight, there is some good moments in there like the acid spray, but the whole ultra close ups, wrestling moves and the annoying metal piston sounds just kind make it a meh moment for me. The camp part would have been better if we actually knew or cared for those characters but they were just fodder.
I prefer avp and avpr to the newest the predator movie
That's a no winner contest.
Quote from: Trioxin on Jan 08, 2020, 04:52:13 AM
I prefer avp and avpr to the newest the predator movie
How do you feel about Alien Resurrection?
I think it's probably the best of the worst.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Jan 08, 2020, 01:54:23 PM
I think it's probably the best of the worst.
I know you think it's the best of the worst, and you know I think it's the worst of the worst, but I'm curious what our new member thinks :)
I will watch it and let you know i don't think i have watched that one since the beginning of the new millennium. I can say I don't remember thinking it was great. I did just buy all the movies though so I'll let you know in 2 ish hours.
Quote from: Trioxin on Jan 08, 2020, 02:34:36 PM
I will watch it and let you know i don't think i have watched that one since the beginning of the new millennium. I can say I don't remember thinking it was great. I did just buy all the movies though so I'll let you know in 2 ish hours.
No rush!!! :laugh:
Just take it as a parody and you might enjoy Resurrection.
I just take it as it is, not good.
:laugh:
Honestly alien ressurection... So close to a good movie has a solid cast and then it goes and gas the most contrived laboured plot ever. First aliens are already hybrids of humans and another species to make the drone why make another type of more human alien. Ripley is an alien and call is an android all so shit.
If I were to judge it on its own without the alien universe it's not too bad and it's an easier watch in my opinion than AVP.
Resurrection was destroying a beloved property through lazy writing, cheesy humor and hybrid creatures before it was cool.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2020, 10:51:15 PM
Resurrection was destroying a beloved property through lazy writing, cheesy humor and hybrid creatures before it was cool.
Yea that sums up the movie in a much more eloquent way than I could have done.
Alien 3 safely excised the 'beloved' part 5 years earlier.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2020, 10:51:15 PM
Resurrection was destroying a beloved property through lazy writing, cheesy humor and hybrid creatures before it was cool.
I'm a trendsetter?(https://media.criticalhit.net//2017/11/Alien-Resurrection-1.jpg)
:D
The funny thing to me is that the drone is already a hybrid creature of whatever it's host is why double down and make it more human and be less dangerous. I don't understand the logic.
It's the anti-Ripley.
Originally it was:
QuoteAn alien, to be sure, but nothing we've seen so far, its forelegs arch
out of its back like spiders legs, its back legs set on enormous
haunches, thick and powerful.
Its head is long, eyeless, like the others, but along its white expanse
red veins, coming out of the skin and running like thick black hairs to
the back.
It has retracted pincers at the side of head that come out when its
tongue does.
Its much bigger the the others, nearly the size of the queen herself.
And it's bone white.
On your last post SM, perhaps for people that incorrectly think Resurrection is anywhere near the quality of the first three. "Proof?" Look at all the people who contributed the best stuff in the series in years, the one commonality of all of them? Al Hope (Isolation), Kelsey Taylor (Specimen), James Stokoe (Dead Orbit) and Alex White (The Cold Forge)? Every single one thinks highly of Alien and Aliens and Alien³ but not Resurrection.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/pDsFHTR6RbQly/giphy.gif)
C'mon man get with the times. lol
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 10, 2018, 12:10:30 AM
At least Alien 3 left all the worldbuilding intact...then Alien Resurrection flushed it all down the toilet.
Basically everything that isn't the characters, and honestly, regardless of the fates of notable others, I honestly think the last time we see Ellen Ripley is by far Sigourney Weaver's strongest performance, my favourite version of the character that's so very tired.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 09, 2020, 01:44:54 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2020, 10:51:15 PM
Resurrection was destroying a beloved property through lazy writing, cheesy humor and hybrid creatures before it was cool.
I'm a trendsetter?
(https://media.criticalhit.net//2017/11/Alien-Resurrection-1.jpg)
:D
I already want to burn it
(https://i.imgur.com/RJS8V2X.png?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/R3akLDB.gif)
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jan 09, 2020, 07:07:36 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 09, 2020, 01:44:54 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2020, 10:51:15 PM
Resurrection was destroying a beloved property through lazy writing, cheesy humor and hybrid creatures before it was cool.
I'm a trendsetter?
(https://media.criticalhit.net//2017/11/Alien-Resurrection-1.jpg)
:D
I already want to burn it
https://i.imgur.com/RJS8V2X.png?1
(https://i.imgur.com/R3akLDB.gif)
Why burn something that can clearly be useful, like for clearing out one's sinuses?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSxr59FOmzS8R13ur4w8pCKcq9hlV0PfMBVckbB5e03sKE8EgUT)
Random thought. I tell my boy story's of movies , tonight was AVP.
It occured to me..... Where were the humans going to come into play in the story if the pyramid was burried under the ice? Did the Predators know that the current humans would stumble upon the pyramid in time to birth some Aliens? Otherwise....there would have been no Humans as incubaters? They ( the predators) obviously know the pyramid is buried under ice because they shot a laser tunnel into it?
So basically the whole premise is - we hope these humans notice this pyramid firing up?
Do they fill in the tunnel in when they leave? No tunnel left over from the whaling village disappearance.
Quote from: Highland on Apr 08, 2020, 01:15:37 PM
So basically the whole premise is - we hope these humans notice this pyramid firing up?
In the modern era that makes some kind of sense -- we have satellites, and Predators know a lot about us.
1904 is a harder sell, but obviously a bit of luck (There happened to be a whaling station on the island), but what about 1804? 1704? 1604? Etc.
Did they just not use the pyramid during those times? Were there other pyramids still operating? Were there pyramids on other planets they used instead when they realised humans weren't near the pyramids?
Also, why did the Predators leave the ancient mummified corpses, but apparently neatly cleared out all of the whalers -- not to mention everyone else between Whatever BCE and 2004?
Quote from: SiL on Apr 08, 2020, 01:26:35 PM
Quote from: Highland on Apr 08, 2020, 01:15:37 PM
So basically the whole premise is - we hope these humans notice this pyramid firing up?
In the modern era that makes some kind of sense -- we have satellites, and Predators know a lot about us.
1904 is a harder sell, but obviously a bit of luck (There happened to be a whaling station on the island), but what about 1804? 1704? 1604? Etc.
Did they just not use the pyramid during those times? Were there other pyramids still operating? Were there pyramids on other planets they used instead when they realised humans weren't near the pyramids?
Also, why did the Predators leave the ancient mummified corpses, but apparently neatly cleared out all of the whalers -- not to mention everyone else between Whatever BCE and 2004?
Only other explanation I guess is that they'd gather up some randoms since the humans aren't really their main concern.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 08, 2020, 01:26:35 PM
Quote from: Highland on Apr 08, 2020, 01:15:37 PM
So basically the whole premise is - we hope these humans notice this pyramid firing up?
In the modern era that makes some kind of sense -- we have satellites, and Predators know a lot about us.
1904 is a harder sell, but obviously a bit of luck (There happened to be a whaling station on the island), but what about 1804? 1704? 1604? Etc.
Did they just not use the pyramid during those times? Were there other pyramids still operating? Were there pyramids on other planets they used instead when they realised humans weren't near the pyramids?
Also, why did the Predators leave the ancient mummified corpses, but apparently neatly cleared out all of the whalers -- not to mention everyone else between Whatever BCE and 2004?
There was never any settlement on Bouvet, so in it's fictional history it could've also been settled in 1804. 1704 and 1604 could be tougher sells, but they could've done stuff elsewhere like you said (Cambodia, Central America, etc). I think the piles of bones in that room off the sacrificial chamber may account for previous victims perhaps?
Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2020, 10:30:50 PM
I think the piles of bones in that room off the sacrificial chamber may account for previous victims perhaps?
Good point, but still, why leave the sacrificial victims on the slabs?
Pride of place? Maybe they normally would clear them away before the next hunt rather than after the last hunt? Janitors day off?
Don't make me rationalise AvP, man!
Why was there a penguin native to warmer climates in Africa in Antarctica? I NEED ANSWERS
It's a robot.
Happy now? ARE YOU??
Makes about as much sense as the rest of the movie, I'll take it!
Quote from: 426Buddy on Apr 08, 2020, 01:19:21 PM
Do they fill in the tunnel in when they leave? No tunnel left over from the whaling village disappearance.
The previous tunnel may have been dug from a different direction, and a distance away. The team just arrived at the one spot they knew of. Plus, if nothing else, there was 100 years of snow and shifting ice.
Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2020, 10:51:54 PM
Pride of place? Maybe they normally would clear them away before the next hunt rather than after the last hunt? Janitors day off?
Don't make me rationalise AvP, man!
The temple was buried in an ice age or something. No humans for sacrificing, until the whalers came along. So the mummies of the aztecs were still in place since it was abandoned until hosts returned. Once we had better technology, they baited the hook.
Having the dials set for 1904 is a narrative thing I guess they didn't think through. I don't see those whalers having enough scientific incentive to go down a hole that dark and deep. Unless they were forced. Had the dials been set for a few thousand years ago, and the opening with the whalers just been a straight up surface hunt without the alien, it would've made more sense.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 08, 2020, 11:46:06 PM
Why was there a penguin native to warmer climates in Africa in Antarctica? I NEED ANSWERS
Because he knew Paul and needed the work.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 09, 2020, 02:54:48 AM
Makes about as much sense as the rest of the movie, I'll take it!
Righto then.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 09, 2020, 04:36:26 AM
The previous tunnel may have been dug from a different direction, and a distance away.
If it was still open, it would've shown on the maps.
QuoteThe temple was buried in an ice age or something. No humans for sacrificing, until the whalers came along. So the mummies of the aztecs were still in place since it was abandoned until hosts returned. Once we had better technology, they baited the hook.
But why clean out some dead bodies to the side, but not the sacrificial hosts? In fact, if not the sacrificial hosts, whose are most those skulls in the alcove?
QuoteHaving the dials set for 1904 is a narrative thing I guess they didn't think through.
The Predators were meant to open the sarcophagus, so that makes sense.
The whole sarcophagus thing doesn't really make much sense either since the aztec culture didn't use that calender system.
And if you're doing a metric count based on the length of the day, you wouldn't be using 10 minutes. The closest would be 14.4 minutes or so.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 09, 2020, 05:35:43 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 09, 2020, 04:36:26 AM
The previous tunnel may have been dug from a different direction, and a distance away.
If it was still open, it would've shown on the maps.
QuoteThe temple was buried in an ice age or something. No humans for sacrificing, until the whalers came along. So the mummies of the aztecs were still in place since it was abandoned until hosts returned. Once we had better technology, they baited the hook.
But why clean out some dead bodies to the side, but not the sacrificial hosts? In fact, if not the sacrificial hosts, whose are most those skulls in the alcove?
QuoteHaving the dials set for 1904 is a narrative thing I guess they didn't think through.
The Predators were meant to open the sarcophagus, so that makes sense.
They were meant to, but they shouldn't have been. Leaving the whaling station as just an old abandoned whaling station, and setting the dials back a few thousand years would have made more sense.
As for the hole in the ground, then they must have just used the same one. And they'd only have to collapse the entrance when leaving to cover it up.
QuoteThey were meant to, but they shouldn't have been. Leaving the whaling station as just an old abandoned whaling station, and setting the dials back a few thousand years would have made more sense.
Why? As far as they're aware there's no-one around. Not like they expect people to go snooping about 2000ft under the ice, surely.
Because the ancient bodies, and the lack of another 2,000 foot hole would make a bit more sense if it had been abandoned after the alien outbreak shown in the flashback.
AvP was alright. Most versus movies are garbage anyway and you don't expect them to be great.
Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Apr 15, 2020, 03:03:22 AM
AvP was alright. Most versus movies are garbage anyway and you don't expect them to be great.
Clearly you haven't seen King Kong vs Godzilla.
(https://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/styles/1292xauto/public/giphy-2_2.gif)
How can anyone not love such thorough and scientifically accurate briefings as we received from the good Dr. Johnson?
I watched AvP last night for the first time in ~3 yrs. I marathon all 7 movies before Covenant came out. Speaking of, that timeframe was the last time I posted on these forums, but even 2017 was removed from my more habitual visitations.
Anyways, quick backstory: AvP was the first midnight movie I went to. It was back before Thursday night previews were a thing (stateside, anyways) & ticket stubs all read 12:01 AM. I recall liking it at the time & might have even boldly proclaimed it the third best Alien movie! Of course, I was a 16 year old uncultured swine, who had yet to appreciate Alien 3 for the masterpiece that it is. This forum, or some incarnation of it, existed at the time & I relayed my barebones thoughts when I got home. When I checked back to see what others had thought, it had been shutdown. An entire fandom wiped out overnight.
My most recent rewatch didn't bring upon any new revelations, but I did watch it with a friend who is both a huge Alien & Predator fan but has somehow never seen either AvP. Yes, we're queuing up Requiem next; won't that be fun. Overall, he dug it. I stand by my 16 year old assertion that it's better than Resurrection, & my friend agreed. This movie is not worthy of some of the distain it receives. And no, that doesn't make it great, but it's decently entertaining and you can tell a wholehearted attempted was made at making a legitimately good movie.
Pleasing all fans was probably an impossibility from the get go, and that isn't to say it couldn't have done a better job, but there have always been a few nitpicky criticisms of this film that aren't worth the aggravation. I like the new Predator vision, personally. And okay, they're on the bulkier side, but does that ruin the movie? No. Neither does the accelerated lifecycle of the Xeno's. Wasn't the set-up long enough? It was time to let shit hit the fan. Speaking of set-up, many will note the the characters are underdeveloped or that the dialogue is bland. Sorry to say, that's par for the course in a film like this; the issue was not casting charismatic scene chewing actors to overcome it. Lance is a legend though & Sanaa carries her weight admirably. I'm also 100% okay with it being on Earth given the isolated environment & the transforming pyramid is a perfect place for such an encounter.
I think the core concept of this film works, it just needs a few minor tweaks here and there. For example, instead of "teenage" Predators, make them elite Predators that have trained their entire lives for this once in a hundred year opportunity. It's the Predator olympics! On the execution side of things, it still peeves me that 1 Alien took out 2 Predators so quickly. Admittedly, it was a legit smackdown & I appreciate making Grid such a badass, but eliminating 2/3 Predators before any Xeno blood is spilled is suspect. Same goes for Scar getting facehugged so early. Did we even need to see that to accept it could've happened, or would it being another egg on the Sulaco debacle if the Predalien birthed with no onscreen evidence of impregnation?
There are two subtle touches at onset of the film I appreciate: Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman being shown on TV prior to the discovering the pyramid, & the satellite silhouetting the Queen. Speaking of the Queen, she is amazing in this film. A welcome return to glory after that pesky Newborn sucker punched her. Additionally, the detail in the pyramid, notably all the Predator & Xeno artwork, are cool & would look great as a mosaic in my house. Maybe it's not much, but it provides better scenery than suburban Colorado, for example.
I know my opinions won't do much to sway anyone else's, but I felt compelled to share. I also know how it goes when you dislike a film: every small detail adds up. For example, I was once unreasonable outraged that the Lizard in 2012's Amazing Spider-Man movie didn't have a snout. There was precedence for this in the comics, but it was not my preferred rendering. It is far from the reason the movie is bad, at least in my opinion, but it's just one more thing to throw onto the scrap pile. Things I dismiss as nitpicks in AvP don't make or break the film, at least not individually, but maybe there is 1 or a dozen too many for some to find enjoyment in it. Or maybe it is the much derided PG-13 rating, which again, was never going to dictate the overall quality.
Alright, I'm done waxing poetic. Fingers crossed for a 3rd AvP someday! Preferably they'll set it in space, so we can all agree in advance that it'll be good. Honestly though, us diehards are the toughest critics. My wife, a lukewarm fan of either franchise, likes AvP. A coworker once, upon learning I was an Alien fan, was quick to tell me how cool they thought AvP is. Way back, after AvP but pre-Requiem, a classmate said there absolutely needed to be a 2nd one to pick up where this one left off. No word on whether they were satisfied by how that went. I know though that I'm satisfied with this movie, Alien vs. Predator, as is.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 15, 2020, 03:25:34 AM
Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Apr 15, 2020, 03:03:22 AM
AvP was alright. Most versus movies are garbage anyway and you don't expect them to be great.
Clearly you haven't seen King Kong vs Godzilla.
(https://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/styles/1292xauto/public/giphy-2_2.gif)
King Kong vs. Godzilla is not great, but I'm hoping the new 1 is! I've really enjoyed all 3 films thus far.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Oct 01, 2018, 12:56:25 AM
I think I prefer Reqiuem just because the Predator was actually recognisable as a Predator.
Storyline I prefer avp, but yes wolf reminded us of how a Predator should be. Not some bulky tiger roaring thing.
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 14, 2020, 04:12:29 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Oct 01, 2018, 12:56:25 AM
I think I prefer Reqiuem just because the Predator was actually recognisable as a Predator.
Storyline I prefer avp, but yes wolf reminded us of how a Predator should be. Not some bulky tiger roaring thing.
Incompetent? Wolf definitely looked far better than the preds from the first movie and there are interesting concepts around him, but in action, Wolf is rather idiotic.
Wolf is supposed to be an experienced cleaner yet leaves a skinned corpse about, he later sidetracks his mission again to shoot a random man in the head just because the man was arguing with Kelly and happened to be armed. While predators do target armed people, he was not on a human hunt, he was supposed to be dealing with the aliens and the situation was getting worse. Wolf was wasting time.
He makes the situation worse by causing a blackout and doesn't have the best strategy for dealing with the infestation. His only attempt at creating a kill box resulted in the aliens being released from the sewers.
Quite.
Wolf shooting the dude in the cemetery was a way of illustrating to Kelly that you'd be targeted if you were armed.
Perhaps the reason it got cut was because there was no pay off to Kelly having this information making it ultimately pointless.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 16, 2020, 11:26:33 AM
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 14, 2020, 04:12:29 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Oct 01, 2018, 12:56:25 AM
I think I prefer Reqiuem just because the Predator was actually recognisable as a Predator.
Storyline I prefer avp, but yes wolf reminded us of how a Predator should be. Not some bulky tiger roaring thing.
Incompetent? Wolf definitely looked far better than the preds from the first movie and there are interesting concepts around him, but in action, Wolf is rather idiotic.
Wolf is supposed to be an experienced cleaner yet leaves a skinned corpse about, he later sidetracks his mission again to shoot a random man in the head just because the man was arguing with Kelly and happened to be armed. While predators do target armed people, he was not on a human hunt, he was supposed to be dealing with the aliens and the situation was getting worse. Wolf was wasting time.
He makes the situation worse by causing a blackout and doesn't have the best strategy for dealing with the infestation. His only attempt at creating a kill box resulted in the aliens being released from the sewers.
He would clean the floor with those 3 Preds from the first movie.
That is not saying much considering that they were teens and poorly armed. That being said they at least didn't allow an infestation to get out of control like Wolf did. The humans taking the plasma casters were an unforseen event, while Wolf's mission was to make sure the Aliens didn't spread and to cover it up and he failed big time.
Also the Aliens in the first film were more competent that the things in the second movie.
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 16, 2020, 04:03:22 PM
He would clean the floor with those 3 Preds from the first movie.
Indeed!
(https://i.imgflip.com/3je66m.png)
Would he though? I see him going down like Chopper did.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 17, 2020, 04:14:36 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/3je66m.png)
Would he though? I see him going down like Chopper did.
Puh-lease. These AvP Predators fight like amateurs, standing in place, swinging wildly.
(https://expresselevatortohell.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/alien-vs-predator-2004-avp-celtic-vs-grid-imgur.gif)
Wolf has more Xeno kills than they can count! Wolf would school them! 8)
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ShrillLightDuckling-small.gif)
Yeah, but the AvP Predators went against Aliens that actually fought back, which is totally unfair.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 17, 2020, 09:04:51 PM
Yeah, but the AvP Predators went against Aliens that actually fought back, which is totally unfair.
With fighters like the Predators in AvP, even we could look good against them. 8)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 17, 2020, 09:15:21 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jun 17, 2020, 09:04:51 PM
Yeah, but the AvP Predators went against Aliens that actually fought back, which is totally unfair.
With fighters like the Predators in AvP, even we could look good against them. 8)
Wolf has his "Gary Stu" moments (male equivalent of Mary Sue) time to time though. The Aliens from Requiem aren't exactly the fierce and cunning fighter that was Grid in AVP.
(https://i.imgur.com/09k4SQ3.png)
Which is a shame since they were supposed to be warrior xenomorphs and not drones. :P
Yeah I actually enjoyed seeing Aliens be so deadly in the first AvP, illustrates why they are the most dangerous prey. Still shouldn't have killed two in one sitting.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 17, 2020, 09:25:51 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 17, 2020, 09:15:21 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jun 17, 2020, 09:04:51 PM
Yeah, but the AvP Predators went against Aliens that actually fought back, which is totally unfair.
With fighters like the Predators in AvP, even we could look good against them. 8)
Wolf has his "Gary Stu" moments (male equivalent of Mary Sue) time to time though. The Aliens from Requiem aren't exactly the fierce and cunning fighter that was Grid in AVP.
https://i.imgur.com/09k4SQ3.png
Which is a shame since they were supposed to be warrior xenomorphs and not drones. :P
It's all relative to the staging of the fight choreography, right?
But all things being equal, these AvP Preds are presented as Padawans and Wolf is presented as a Jedi Master.
with this analogy, would ahab also fall into the role of jedi master?
I think the prerequisite is having only one working eye. ;D
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 17, 2020, 09:41:33 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 17, 2020, 09:25:51 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 17, 2020, 09:15:21 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jun 17, 2020, 09:04:51 PM
Yeah, but the AvP Predators went against Aliens that actually fought back, which is totally unfair.
With fighters like the Predators in AvP, even we could look good against them. 8)
Wolf has his "Gary Stu" moments (male equivalent of Mary Sue) time to time though. The Aliens from Requiem aren't exactly the fierce and cunning fighter that was Grid in AVP.
https://i.imgur.com/09k4SQ3.png
Which is a shame since they were supposed to be warrior xenomorphs and not drones. :P
It's all relative to the staging of the fight choreography, right?
But all things being equal, these AvP Preds are presented as Padawans and Wolf is presented as a Jedi Master.
A Jedi master playing a game on the easier difficulty. I'd say it was a tutorial to train for the final boss fight. That was actually his real first fight. :laugh:
Or maybe Wolf is an almost Jedi Master against Xeno-padawans? :-X
(https://i.imgur.com/CUdvLQ7.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/G2W5NfG.gif)
Until he faces the true Master. ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/vCI3sgU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/G3GgeQw.png)
:laugh: though from what i remember, in some life and death panels they screwed up the consistency with his eye
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 17, 2020, 09:39:49 PM
Yeah I actually enjoyed seeing Aliens be so deadly in the first AvP, illustrates why they are the most dangerous prey. Still shouldn't have killed two in one sitting.
Anyone who wants to adapt the AVP concept to the big screen should take note of that. If the Aliens are extremely deadly, the Predator that defeats them seems more powerful in a credible way. The two creatures must be treated with respect.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 17, 2020, 09:15:21 PM
With fighters like the Predators in AvP, even we could look good against them. 8)
Wolf couldn't even look good against the Aliens in AvPR. 8)
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 17, 2020, 10:32:31 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 17, 2020, 09:39:49 PM
Yeah I actually enjoyed seeing Aliens be so deadly in the first AvP, illustrates why they are the most dangerous prey. Still shouldn't have killed two in one sitting.
Anyone who wants to adapt the AVP concept to the big screen should take note of that. If the Aliens are extremely deadly, the Predator that defeats them seems more powerful in a credible way. The two creatures must be treated with respect.
Indeed. If the Aliens become little more than cannon fodder, it diminishes the threat, and the tension. Wolf was basically Duke Nukem to a bunch of inbred doofy aliens that did very non-alien things at times.
My biggest beef with AVP was the editing of the fights and choreography. The Predators just don't look. Their design in concept is great, but the execution is bulky, awkward and unconvincing. Especially when they show them moving in slow motion like wrestlers. The original two predators felt far more agile than that and that was one of the reasons to me that it felt like a compelling duel between the two was possible.
I do agree with those that say the first AVP dropped the ball by killing Celtic so quickly. I've always thought it would have been better paced had Celtic stuck around until nearer the third act. Had the fight broken up when Grid distracted Celtic with the acid splash and Celtic was left wandering the pyramid for awhile, while we got caught up with the main characters and Scar, I think that would have been way better for the balance. I do remember being at least somewhat thrilled by the fight right up until Celtic got taken out. NOT because the fight wasn't creatively balaned, but because that was it. There's one Predator left. That was literally my thought too "That's it? Aw.."
We could have then maybe had two predators taking on aliens in the plasma cannon hallway section of the film. Maybe had Celtic go down fighting a group of the aliens and getting torn apart.
Celtic looked intimidating and powerful. I, like you, would not expect him to be killed so soon. But I agree. He looked heavy and clumsy in slow motion, and in a way that detail made him look like a guy in a suit instead of a hunter from another world.
Quote from: OpenMawWe could have then maybe had two predators taking on aliens in the plasma cannon hallway section of the film. Maybe had Celtic go down fighting a group of the aliens and getting torn apart.
That would be intense and full of tension. I can dig it actually. 8)
Can we all just agree that the 3 Preds from avp looked clumsy? I mean one alien killing 2 predators? That would never happen. It's more likely that a Predator kills two aliens than an Alien killing 2 Predators.
That's why I say Wolf would clean the floor with the avp Predators. Roaring under the mask was also a mistake since that had never happened in the previous movies, (only when the Predators removes the mask.) I could go on all day but is it really worth it?
We can agree they looked clumsy, sure.
Can we agree Wolf only lasted as long as he did because at no point did the Aliens do much in his presence, and yet he still lost?
Quote from: SiL on Jun 18, 2020, 06:41:21 AM
We can agree they looked clumsy, sure.
Can we agree Wolf only lasted as long as he did because at no point did the Aliens do much in his presence, and yet he still lost?
Yep, I agree that the aliens looked weak in avpr
I didn't find the Predator deaths to be a problem at all. One got done while distracted and the other duked it out and lost.
Two fights might've been cooler, but it wasn't unrealistic (stupidly long tail notwithstanding).
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 18, 2020, 06:20:22 AM
Can we all just agree that the 3 Preds from avp looked clumsy? I mean one alien killing 2 predators? That would never happen. It's more likely that a Predator kills two aliens than an Alien killing 2 Predators.
That's why I say Wolf would clean the floor with the avp Predators. Roaring under the mask was also a mistake since that had never happened in the previous movies, (only when the Predators removes the mask.) I could go on all day but is it really worth it?
Why would it never happen? Aliens are deadly and very strong, easily rivaling a Predator's strength. its not a stretch to believe that one can kill two or more predators.
Remember that Gill was ganked from behind, its not like Grid bested both in combat. In fact technically speaking, Celtic won the fight but was killed due to his own stupidity.
Wolf roars under his mask too.
Quote from: SM on Jun 18, 2020, 08:37:36 AM
I didn't find the Predator deaths to be a problem at all. One got done while distracted and the other duked it out and lost.
Two fights might've been cooler, but it wasn't unrealistic (stupidly long tail notwithstanding).
Their deaths mirror the first two movies, even -- not paying attention to your surroundings (Jungle Hunter/Chopper), and savouring the kill long enough for your prey to get in the killing blow (City Hunter/Celtic).
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 18, 2020, 08:45:31 AM
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 18, 2020, 06:20:22 AM
Can we all just agree that the 3 Preds from avp looked clumsy? I mean one alien killing 2 predators? That would never happen. It's more likely that a Predator kills two aliens than an Alien killing 2 Predators.
That's why I say Wolf would clean the floor with the avp Predators. Roaring under the mask was also a mistake since that had never happened in the previous movies, (only when the Predators removes the mask.) I could go on all day but is it really worth it?
Why would it never happen? Aliens are deadly and very strong, easily rivaling a Predator's strength. its not a stretch to believe that one can kill two or more predators.
Remember that Gill was ganked from behind, its not like Grid bested both in combat. In fact technically speaking, Celtic won the fight but was killed due to his own stupidity.
Wolf roars under his mask too.
Please wake up from your dreams and fantasies. A Predator = skilled hunter. One predator almost wiped out Arnolds team. Do you really belive that one alien could do that? Not possible. They are much easier to kill than a Predator, we have seen that in Aliens.
Arnold's team were no Aliens and weren't able to see the Predator like Aliens can, so comparing wiping out humans to wiping out aliens isn't realistic. Also the predator in that movie used his plasma caster a lot.
You forget that Aliens took out experienced marines as well. Marines with explosive tipped ammo which would tear a predator apart if they managed to hit it.
Judging by your post there, I am wondering if you are being serious or not. It just seems illogical.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 18, 2020, 09:40:13 AM
Arnold's team were no Aliens and weren't able to see the Predator like Aliens can.
You forget that Aliens took out experienced marines as well.
Judging by your post there, I am wondering if you are being serious or not.
I am dead serious. You think those marines are a match for Arnold's team? It's like comparing kids to grown men.
The marines while lacking in finesse, had massive firepower and were still taken out by the Aliens so badly that Hudson fell apart mentally. That ammo would kill a predator easy. Arnolds team were humans and targeted at range. Aliens would be a tougher fight as they can see the predators. The only advantages a Predator has over an Alien is technology.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 18, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
The marines while lacking in finesse, had massive firepower and were still taken out by the Aliens so badly that Hudson fell apart mentally. That ammo would kill a predator easy. Arnolds team were humans and targeted at range. Aliens would be a tougher fight as they can see the predators. The only advantages a Predator has over an Alien is technology.
You really think that one alien would survive that minigun used by Mac at close range? No way. Also, if it's injured its injured, it can't self medicate it self like a Predator can. So not only is the Predator inferior in technology, also much smarter.
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 18, 2020, 09:52:12 AM
You really think that one alien would survive that minigun used by Mac at close range? No way. Also, if it's injured its injured, it can't self medicate it self like a Predator can. So not only is the Predator inferior in technology, also much smarter.
The Predator only got hit once in the leg and needed medical attention. Aliens don't need to self-medicate; they heal quickly.
It doesn't matter, though. Whether an Alien would do as well in
Predator or a Predator as well in
Aliens is so far removed from understanding how they'd fight each other it's not funny. None of this is relevant.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 18, 2020, 09:53:58 AM
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 18, 2020, 09:52:12 AM
You really think that one alien would survive that minigun used by Mac at close range? No way. Also, if it's injured its injured, it can't self medicate it self like a Predator can. So not only is the Predator inferior in technology, also much smarter.
The Predator only got hit once in the leg and needed medical attention. Aliens don't need to self-medicate; they heal quickly.
It doesn't matter, though. Whether an Alien would do as well in Predator or a Predator as well in Aliens is so far removed from understanding how they'd fight each other it's not funny. None of this is relevant.
"The Predator only got hit once in the leg and needed medical attention."
It was smart enough to avoid getting hit much more.
"It doesn't matter, though. Whether an Alien would do as well in
Predator or a Predator as well in
Aliens is so far removed from understanding how they'd fight each other it's not funny. None of this is relevant."
That is true.
QuoteIt was smart enough to avoid getting hit much more.
It got hit while it was running away so, I guess it wasn't smart enough to not get hit at all?
I don't know what point you're trying to make with this to be honest.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 18, 2020, 10:02:37 AM
QuoteIt was smart enough to avoid getting hit much more.
It got hit while it was running away so, I guess it wasn't smart enough to not get hit at all?
I don't know what point you're trying to make with this to be honest.
Well, at least it didn't die right away like 200 aliens died in the movie aliens by some teenagers with rifles 😂
"I don't know what point you're trying to make with this to be honest."
Just stating my opinion 👍
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 18, 2020, 10:14:32 AM
Well, at least it didn't die right away like 200 aliens died in the movie aliens by some teenagers with rifles 😂
There aren't 200 Aliens in that movie to start with, there are no teenagers, and most of the Aliens are killed by the thermonuclear explosion, not guns.
You're really not making any sort of argument for why one Alien couldn't kill two Predators.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 18, 2020, 10:24:46 AM
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 18, 2020, 10:14:32 AM
Well, at least it didn't die right away like 200 aliens died in the movie aliens by some teenagers with rifles 😂
There aren't 200 Aliens in that movie to start with, there are no teenagers, and most of the Aliens are killed by the thermonuclear explosion, not guns.
You're really not making any sort of argument for why one Alien couldn't kill two Predators.
Already said why, in case you missed that.
One predator inferior in technology, inferior in being smarter inferior in being stronger. What more do you want me to tell you?
This is clearly my opinion😉
Go back and read a little bit, I shouldn't have to copy and paste everything I said.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 17, 2020, 09:41:33 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 17, 2020, 09:25:51 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 17, 2020, 09:15:21 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jun 17, 2020, 09:04:51 PM
Yeah, but the AvP Predators went against Aliens that actually fought back, which is totally unfair.
With fighters like the Predators in AvP, even we could look good against them. 8)
Wolf has his "Gary Stu" moments (male equivalent of Mary Sue) time to time though. The Aliens from Requiem aren't exactly the fierce and cunning fighter that was Grid in AVP.
https://i.imgur.com/09k4SQ3.png
Which is a shame since they were supposed to be warrior xenomorphs and not drones. :P
It's all relative to the staging of the fight choreography, right?
But all things being equal, these AvP Preds are presented as Padawans and Wolf is presented as a Jedi Master.
Well, how they're supposed to be presented and how they actually are is a little different... :P
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 17, 2020, 09:39:49 PM
Yeah I actually enjoyed seeing Aliens be so deadly in the first AvP, illustrates why they are the most dangerous prey.
Agreed. I actually think the first AvP was really well balanced in how it actually presented the creatures. I think it was really fair to the portrayal of both of them.
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 18, 2020, 10:31:26 AM
One predator inferior in technology, inferior in being smarter inferior in being stronger. What more do you want me to tell you?
What any of that has to do with how well they'd do in a fight against each other.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 18, 2020, 10:57:35 AM
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 18, 2020, 10:31:26 AM
One predator inferior in technology, inferior in being smarter inferior in being stronger. What more do you want me to tell you?
What any of that has to do with how well they'd do in a fight against each other.
It has alot to do with it. I explained several times. I take my opinions based on jungle hunter and City hunter.
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 18, 2020, 10:14:32 AM
Just stating my opinion 👍
Really? It reads more like you're calling people delusional for disagreeing with your (clearly biased) opinion.
But hey, that's just
my opinion.
Not worth it Sil lol.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 18, 2020, 10:41:51 AM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 17, 2020, 09:39:49 PM
Yeah I actually enjoyed seeing Aliens be so deadly in the first AvP, illustrates why they are the most dangerous prey.
Agreed. I actually think the first AvP was really well balanced in how it actually presented the creatures. I think it was really fair to the portrayal of both of them.
I personally believe at some point it shouldn't be balanced though.
I equate this all to man versus beast. Why man is able to defeat the lion is the weapons man creates, the traps they create. Their minds make them superior. You strip a human down and they are no match for the lion. And the same goes with the Predator versus the Alien (although Predators would fair somewhat better than us with their thicker hide, claws and teeth). But a Predator equpped with their full tech, 1 v 1, without the element of surprise? Then it's just imbalance.
At that point the Aliens strength are in their numbers.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GentleJaggedFlea-size_restricted.gif)
That's what I mean by well-balanced. An accurate portrayal might have been a better way of saying it. Grid took Chopper down because of his tunnel vision. Grid and Celtic fight was hard work, but Celtic eventually got the upper-hand thanks to its weapons, despite the Grid's attempt at stealth, but then lost to its arrogance. And then Scar was just owning the place once he had his shoulder cannon, until the Aliens retreated in the corridor.
I suppose aside from the silly tail length, it didn't feel like either were winning or loosing based on plot like in Requiem.
Absolutely if you just stuck both creatures in a big room and didn't let either play to their strengths or weaknesses, sure, the Predator shoots the Alien and wins.
Super boring movie though, and not something Predators are even interested in.
Very true!
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 18, 2020, 09:07:26 PM
That's what I mean by well-balanced. An accurate portrayal might have been a better way of saying it. Grid took Chopper down because of his tunnel vision. Grid and Celtic fight was hard work, but Celtic eventually got the upper-hand thanks to its weapons, despite the Grid's attempt at stealth, but then lost to its arrogance. And then Scar was just owning the place once he had his shoulder cannon, until the Aliens retreated in the corridor.
I suppose aside from the silly tail length, it didn't feel like either were winning or loosing based on plot like in Requiem.
Ah, thats fair. :) I see where you're coming from.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 18, 2020, 09:07:26 PM
Grid and Celtic fight was hard work, but Celtic eventually got the upper-hand thanks to its weapons, despite the Grid's attempt at stealth, but then lost to its arrogance.
That's pretty much why that scene is one of my favorite pieces of AvP media. Celtic does a good job, but lets emotion get the better of him. It doesn't feel like one side was being favored at all in that fight, and Celtics loss is totally believable given the circumstances.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 18, 2020, 10:41:51 AM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 17, 2020, 09:39:49 PM
Yeah I actually enjoyed seeing Aliens be so deadly in the first AvP, illustrates why they are the most dangerous prey.
Agreed. I actually think the first AvP was really well balanced in how it actually presented the creatures. I think it was really fair to the portrayal of both of them.
This! I agree 500% with that thought. 8)
(https://i.imgur.com/voPhp2x.gif)
But seriously, the movie is by no means perfect. But at least Anderson treated both creatures with respect. Any director who wants to make an AVP movie should start with that important detail. :)
"you're calling people delusional for disagreeing with your"
Hey cancer or whatever your name is, I really don't care what you think, just don't tell me I'm a liar. I never said to anyone that they are delusional. Just because I said to someone "wake up from your dreams" does not mean others can't have their opinions. We all have different ideas and opinions. This is what it's all about.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 18, 2020, 08:30:39 PM
Not worth it Sil lol.
Not worth what?
Is it wrong to belive in what I have said? Isn't this a discussion thread?
Discussion, yes.
Acting like a bit of a dick, not so much.
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 19, 2020, 04:34:48 AM
Is it wrong to belive in what I have said? Isn't this a discussion thread?
You've not really made much of a discussion, though. When people replied to your points you got rude or deflected with "it's just my opinion." Stuff like
QuotePlease wake up from your dreams and fantasies.
is unnecessary.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 19, 2020, 06:07:42 AM
Quote from: Lionhart on Jun 19, 2020, 04:34:48 AM
Is it wrong to belive in what I have said? Isn't this a discussion thread?
You've not really made much of a discussion, though. When people replied to your points you got rude or deflected with "it's just my opinion." Stuff like
QuotePlease wake up from your dreams and fantasies.
is unnecessary.
",You've not really made much of a discussion"
Look Sil, I don't need to make a novel sized discussion to tell you what my opinions are regarding Predator vs Alien. What I have said is enough.
Now when it comes to the second part about me being rude, if some of you took it offensive then you should know that it's not what I'm about.
You don't need a novel, but something more than "Predator smart Alien not smart" or "If you put an Alien into an entirely unrelated situation it wouldn't do what a Predator did" would be a great start. Especially if people question and ask for more information -- that's what a conversation is. What you're doing is the opposite of that, making a statement then shutting down any attempt to engage with it.
QuoteNow when it comes to the second part about me being rude, if some of you took it offensive then you should know that it's not what I'm about.
I guess it was too much to expect an apology...
Quote from: SiL on Jun 19, 2020, 06:39:22 AM
You don't need a novel, but something more than "Predator smart Alien not smart" or "If you put an Alien into an entirely unrelated situation it wouldn't do what a Predator did" would be a great start. Especially if people question and ask for more information -- that's what a conversation is. What you're doing is the opposite of that, making a statement then shutting down any attempt to engage with it.
QuoteNow when it comes to the second part about me being rude, if some of you took it offensive then you should know that it's not what I'm about.
I guess it was too much to expect an apology...
Maybe you like to sit and discuss this kind of stuff for hours and go into every singel details about why and how and if and could and so on. I don't feel like it's that important. At the end of the day it's irrelevant
"I guess it was too much to expect an apology..."
I keep looking and search and I can't find that I used any bad words towards anybody? What you want me to apologize for?
I already said it's not what I'm about?
Then why are you on a discussion forum if you don't want to discuss anything ???
Quote from: SiL on Jun 19, 2020, 07:07:00 AM
Then why are you on a discussion forum if you don't want to discuss anything ???
I am here since 2007. Maybe I used to have more time back in those days to sit and chat for hours. I guess life changes. Who said I don't like to discuss? It depends on what it's about. Now this topic I said is irrelevant because it does not matter if I say predator would do this and you say alien would do that. At the end of the day it's all believes and wishes.
Actually Lionhart, you are very much coming across as rude and dismissive, even if that's not what you're about. You're on a discussion board. If what you're saying is irrelevant to a conversation, don't say it. If you're unwilling to discuss your thoughts, then don't share them and just get rude when people try to, perhaps it's not place to share them. It's a discussion board. Discussion is an inherent part of the process. And that's all I'll say on the matter.
Let's get back on topic. On discussions.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 19, 2020, 08:44:57 AM
Actually Lionhart, you are very much coming across as rude and dismissive, even if that's not what you're about. You're on a discussion board. If what you're saying is irrelevant to a conversation, don't say it. If you're unwilling to discuss your thoughts, then don't share them and just get rude when people try to, perhaps it's not place to share them. It's a discussion board. Discussion is an inherent part of the process. And that's all I'll say on the matter.
Let's get back on topic. On discussions.
Affirmative Admin
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 19, 2020, 02:16:53 AM
But seriously, the movie is by no means perfect. But at least Anderson treated both creatures with respect. Any director who wants to make an AVP movie should start with that important detail. :)
A rule to live by with any versus film! I just wish I can feel that respect from Anderson when it comes to established Predator and ship aesthetic.
Appearance wise, the predators were bad, I didn't mind the mask designs or the armor though, its just their bodies were so bulky. Unmasked they were terrible.
The fight is fair as well, both inflicting damage on each other and showing a real struggle. I just don't like choreagraphy of the fight as its just rolling around, wrestling and too much close ups during the action.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 19, 2020, 01:20:52 PM
I just don't like choreagraphy of the fight as its just rolling around, wrestling and too much close ups during the action.
No disagreement here either.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 19, 2020, 12:30:17 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 19, 2020, 02:16:53 AM
But seriously, the movie is by no means perfect. But at least Anderson treated both creatures with respect. Any director who wants to make an AVP movie should start with that important detail. :)
A rule to live by with any versus film! I just wish I can feel that respect from Anderson when it comes to established Predator and ship aesthetic.
Yes, looking at the designs (Alien and Predator) it is impossible not to agree with that. Someone mentioned in another thread the lack of slime or humidity in the Predators which makes it look like people in suits and not real aliens. I agree with that too. And of course the crabators.
For example speaking of the ships, the AVP are very generic for my taste.
(https://i.imgur.com/eYm8erp.png)
And given that they established a connection with the Mayan architecture, which was influenced by the architecture of the Predators, I think it would have been better if they did something like the Predator 2 ship.
(https://i.imgur.com/KpRLc3L.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Je6T5RU.jpg)
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 19, 2020, 05:41:09 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 19, 2020, 12:30:17 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 19, 2020, 02:16:53 AM
But seriously, the movie is by no means perfect. But at least Anderson treated both creatures with respect. Any director who wants to make an AVP movie should start with that important detail. :)
A rule to live by with any versus film! I just wish I can feel that respect from Anderson when it comes to established Predator and ship aesthetic.
Yes, looking at the designs (Alien and Predator) it is impossible not to agree with that. Someone mentioned in another thread the lack of slime or humidity in the Predators which makes it look like people in suits and not real aliens. I agree with that too. And of course the crabators.
The little details they think we don't notice but,
we absolutely notice. Seems like such an inconsequential thing to throw in during filming, it baffles me that they forgo those extra makeup effects.
Quote from: Wysps on Jun 19, 2020, 11:38:02 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 19, 2020, 05:41:09 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 19, 2020, 12:30:17 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 19, 2020, 02:16:53 AM
But seriously, the movie is by no means perfect. But at least Anderson treated both creatures with respect. Any director who wants to make an AVP movie should start with that important detail. :)
A rule to live by with any versus film! I just wish I can feel that respect from Anderson when it comes to established Predator and ship aesthetic.
Yes, looking at the designs (Alien and Predator) it is impossible not to agree with that. Someone mentioned in another thread the lack of slime or humidity in the Predators which makes it look like people in suits and not real aliens. I agree with that too. And of course the crabators.
The little details they think we don't notice but, we absolutely notice. Seems like such an inconsequential thing to throw in during filming, it baffles me that they forgo those extra makeup effects.
Maybe they think we are idiots lol
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 19, 2020, 11:45:50 PM
Quote from: Wysps on Jun 19, 2020, 11:38:02 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 19, 2020, 05:41:09 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 19, 2020, 12:30:17 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 19, 2020, 02:16:53 AM
But seriously, the movie is by no means perfect. But at least Anderson treated both creatures with respect. Any director who wants to make an AVP movie should start with that important detail. :)
A rule to live by with any versus film! I just wish I can feel that respect from Anderson when it comes to established Predator and ship aesthetic.
Yes, looking at the designs (Alien and Predator) it is impossible not to agree with that. Someone mentioned in another thread the lack of slime or humidity in the Predators which makes it look like people in suits and not real aliens. I agree with that too. And of course the crabators.
The little details they think we don't notice but, we absolutely notice. Seems like such an inconsequential thing to throw in during filming, it baffles me that they forgo those extra makeup effects.
Maybe they think we are idiots lol
Plausible :laugh: We might be idiots, but we're idiots
with taste.
Quote from: Wysps on Jun 19, 2020, 11:52:45 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 19, 2020, 11:45:50 PM
Quote from: Wysps on Jun 19, 2020, 11:38:02 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 19, 2020, 05:41:09 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 19, 2020, 12:30:17 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 19, 2020, 02:16:53 AM
But seriously, the movie is by no means perfect. But at least Anderson treated both creatures with respect. Any director who wants to make an AVP movie should start with that important detail. :)
A rule to live by with any versus film! I just wish I can feel that respect from Anderson when it comes to established Predator and ship aesthetic.
Yes, looking at the designs (Alien and Predator) it is impossible not to agree with that. Someone mentioned in another thread the lack of slime or humidity in the Predators which makes it look like people in suits and not real aliens. I agree with that too. And of course the crabators.
The little details they think we don't notice but, we absolutely notice. Seems like such an inconsequential thing to throw in during filming, it baffles me that they forgo those extra makeup effects.
Maybe they think we are idiots lol
Plausible :laugh: We might be idiots, but we're idiots with taste.
Amen for that :laugh:
They are supposed to be professionals. I mean, one can justify a design choice as creative freedom. But these kinds of details are somewhat depressing. Say that, they are more idiots!
Quote from: Wysps on Jun 19, 2020, 11:38:02 PM
The little details they think we don't notice but, we absolutely notice. Seems like such an inconsequential thing to throw in during filming, it baffles me that they forgo those extra makeup effects.
Anderson made a conscious decision to not have them slimy and glistening because he wanted Scar to be "handsome" to suit the more "heroic" comic-book look he was after. ADI mentions it was a specific brief of his during the design stage.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 20, 2020, 12:19:49 AM
Quote from: Wysps on Jun 19, 2020, 11:38:02 PM
The little details they think we don't notice but, we absolutely notice. Seems like such an inconsequential thing to throw in during filming, it baffles me that they forgo those extra makeup effects.
Anderson made a conscious decision to not have them slimy and glistening because he wanted Scar to be "handsome" to suit the more "heroic" comic-book look he was after. ADI mentions it was a specific brief of his during the design stage.
So he made a "Ridley Scott".
Or Ridley Scott made an "Anderson", since AVP is older :laugh:
Either way is depressing. :D
Quote from: SiL on Jun 20, 2020, 12:19:49 AM
Quote from: Wysps on Jun 19, 2020, 11:38:02 PM
The little details they think we don't notice but, we absolutely notice. Seems like such an inconsequential thing to throw in during filming, it baffles me that they forgo those extra makeup effects.
Anderson made a conscious decision to not have them slimy and glistening because he wanted Scar to be "handsome" to suit the more "heroic" comic-book look he was after. ADI mentions it was a specific brief of his during the design stage.
The movie suffered for it in my opinion, Predators should not be handsome or be relatable, they are basically a movie monster and that worked in the first Predator, it took off its mask and its eyes were a scary piercing yellow. Scar's eyes were horribly human.
The number of young women who grew up crushing on Scar indicates it worked, just maybe not the intended way.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jun 21, 2020, 11:12:45 PM
The number of young women who grew up crushing on Scar indicates it worked, just maybe not the intended way.
Ewwwghhh... Yeah, that's not a metric I would use for success. No.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 21, 2020, 03:30:32 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jun 20, 2020, 12:19:49 AM
Quote from: Wysps on Jun 19, 2020, 11:38:02 PM
The little details they think we don't notice but, we absolutely notice. Seems like such an inconsequential thing to throw in during filming, it baffles me that they forgo those extra makeup effects.
Anderson made a conscious decision to not have them slimy and glistening because he wanted Scar to be "handsome" to suit the more "heroic" comic-book look he was after. ADI mentions it was a specific brief of his during the design stage.
The movie suffered for it in my opinion, Predators should not be handsome or be relatable, they are basically a movie monster and that worked in the first Predator, it took off its mask and its eyes were a scary piercing yellow. Scar's eyes were horribly human.
I feel the same. They shouldn't be relatable, at least in appearance. Even going beyond the mouth, the sunken-in and other-worldly eyes helped make it seem more foreign, as well as the humid skin. (Which is I've always had beef with the breasts - not to stir that pot again, I know lots of people are on board with that). Taking those elements away and giving them human hairstyles (i.e. Topknot), clothing (i.e. The Predator, old script), a polished appearance (i.e. AvP) etc. to me really undermines that special quality that they were introduced with.
Quote from: Wysps on Jun 22, 2020, 09:57:35 PM
Taking those elements away and giving them human hairstyles (i.e. Topknot), clothing (i.e. The Predator, old script), a polished appearance (i.e. AvP) etc. to me really undermines that special quality that they were introduced with.
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3oz8xwNlejeJDQREic/giphy.gif)
Well said!
It's like the netting. They've been fighting to get rid of that since the beginning. I love the story behind AVP:R. How they were gong to junk the netting, and then were told "Erm... Well in Predator lore that's part of the cloaking system, so you can't."
The AVP armor is great when taken in isolation. It's the way it all came together. They look goofy in a lot of shots, and then when the mask comes off they look REALLY bad.
There's that one shot of Celtic that always sticks out to me where he get's whacked by nameless core drill guy number 17.3, and he's supposed to be towering over the guy... He just looks weird. When they walk up to the entrance, too, they look goofy, like their arms are too small for their bodies.
Then you go back and look at P1 and P2, there are several full body full frame shots of the predators standing there, and they not only look menacing, but they look elegant and strong. I buy into their agility in those movies. I don't buy it in AVP, because they just look wrong. They're filmed wrong.
By the same token, though, the Alien's themselves don't fair better. I absolutely abhor the noisey, screechy, lip-twitching body language of the creature post Alien 3.
The great thing about Alien and Aliens is just how quiet those sumbitches are... low hissing, drooling... the dragging of their tails... Quiet. Stealthy. That great reveal in Aliens, with the horde of them in the ceiling? It wouldn't work with the Anderson/Strause/Covenant aliens because they're too busy going RAWRRHGHH RSSHHHHHH RERRRERHARHRHH ARAWWWRRRR!!!
For that last part, a lot of that came down to the loss of the motion tracker. As a tensions building tool, it's invaluable -- it allows you to say the Alien is near without seeing or hearing it. The Alien can be perfectly quiet but still have its presence known.
From A3 onwards the things just have to screech or hiss or make a noise in the distance to alert the audie -- I mean, characters, that they're near, to start building the tension.
I think that's a bit of a myth.
AvP:R it seemed to be almost constant, but when in Covenant or Resurrection do they hiss or screech to telegraph their appearance?
Not sure even AvP was terribly guilty of that either.
AvP uses it in the tunnels.
I swear there's at least one distant roar in Resurrection as they're wandering around (at least one human scream too, may be misremembering that).
Covenant went back to having some form of tracking for it.
In any case they sure get a lot more vocal after the second film.
They can hear a human screams and gunshots when they're in the mess hall. But if you look at the attacks on Elgyn, Vriess or when Ripley's abducted there's no screeching or hissing before hand.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 23, 2020, 07:38:28 PM
Quote from: Wysps on Jun 22, 2020, 09:57:35 PM
Taking those elements away and giving them human hairstyles (i.e. Topknot), clothing (i.e. The Predator, old script), a polished appearance (i.e. AvP) etc. to me really undermines that special quality that they were introduced with.
https://media1.giphy.com/media/3oz8xwNlejeJDQREic/giphy.gif
Well said!
As someone who truly hates anthropomorphising the Predators, I've never had a problem with giving them differing hairstyles, especially Topknot.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 23, 2020, 09:16:20 PM
It's like the netting. They've been fighting to get rid of that since the beginning. I love the story behind AVP:R. How they were gong to junk the netting, and then were told "Erm... Well in Predator lore that's part of the cloaking system, so you can't."
That's only said in the EU though, isn't it?
Quote from: SM on Jun 24, 2020, 06:02:25 AM
They can hear a human screams and gunshots when they're in the mess hall. But if you look at the attacks on Elgyn, Vriess or when Ripley's abducted there's no screeching or hissing before hand.
Good points and I revise my statement to refer primarily to the AvP films.
There's one distant growling/roar sound when the crew is making their way through the ship.
When they're in the messhall you can hear a soldier open fire with his "real deal" gun and then presumably get eaten.
Just about every time the Alien shows up in AVP they're making noises. Just about any time they stick their snout into frame. Like SiL said, particularly in the tunnels.
The Aliens in Aliens never actually yelled out unless they were being shot and injured. Everything else was them giving off a threatening snake-like hissssssss. One of my favorite pieces of sound design in Aliens is the ambiance within the hive after the burster gets killed. That wonderful low cacophony of awakening aliens ready to strike.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 24, 2020, 06:04:09 AM
That's only said in the EU though, isn't it?
Granted, but that particular quote came from an anniversary video featuring all the Suit/Creature FX guys from SWS. Steven Wang(?) I think the guys name is. He said that's what was said on AVPR. They referred to it as "Starlight Express" and then someone came back saying it was the lore of the Predator that the netting was part of the cloaking device. Which is, apparently, why it was kept.
Quote from: SM on Jun 24, 2020, 06:02:25 AM
They can hear a human screams and gunshots when they're in the mess hall. But if you look at the attacks on Elgyn, Vriess or when Ripley's abducted there's no screeching or hissing before hand.
The attack of Elgyn has the Alien grabbing him and literally snarling and growling like a rabid dog.
I'll give you Vriess and Ripley though. In those instances they actually retained some of the tension.
However Resurrection literally also has an alien rear back and roar.
Quote
The attack of Elgyn has the Alien grabbing him and literally snarling and growling like a rabid dog.
Yes, but not to announce themselves, as I'd mistakenly said.
Doesn't one roar underwater while grabbing that person whose name I've totally forgotten who had like twelve guns strapped to her?
Her name is Hillard and it was only eleven.
It does a small squealing sound just before it attacks her and what almost sounds like a burp as it grabs her ankle.
Quote from: SM on Jun 24, 2020, 07:45:10 AM
Her name is Hillard and it was only eleven.
It does a small squealing sound just before it attacks her and what almost sounds like a burp as it grabs her ankle.
I always thought it was more like a washing machine mid-spin.
Quote from: SM on Jun 24, 2020, 07:45:10 AM
Her name is Hillard and it was only eleven.
Well, that changes everything !
Well anyway, I just recently rewatched AVP as well and Im sorry but I had always liked the film ever since I saw it in theaters. The buildup, the look, the setting, the idea. I was surprised how much I liked it after seeing it after several years. Sure, its not a great movie and its cartoony and silly and over the top in places, but the first part of the film I greatly enjoy
This movie is a masterpiece compared to Requiem. I know many people weren't fans of the tanky Predators with the long wrist blades, but their overall design looked good and so did few of the fight scenes. It's a Versus movie so I think cheesy scenes are to be expected.
I didn't mind AVP, I'm a fan of the comics. Broken Tusk was a seasoned warrior and Scar was just a kid, also Lex wasn't Machiko; however I still appreciated the relevance.
AVP also introduced the Predator franchise to a new generation. It might not be what some of the older fans might have wanted, but sometimes you have consider what will attract the next crew of fans.
Quote from: Phobos on Dec 09, 2020, 12:04:13 AM
This movie is a masterpiece compared to Requiem. I know many people weren't fans of the tanky Predators with the long wrist blades, but their overall design looked good and so did few of the fight scenes. It's a Versus movie so I think cheesy scenes are to be expected.
The long wrist blades never bothered me, in fact I would say its more practical to have weapons that has longer reach against the Aliens. Acid blood ruins everyone's day.
I wouldn't say their design looked good however, as their faces are less intimidating than the predators of their own movies.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Dec 09, 2020, 07:14:51 PM
Quote from: Phobos on Dec 09, 2020, 12:04:13 AM
This movie is a masterpiece compared to Requiem. I know many people weren't fans of the tanky Predators with the long wrist blades, but their overall design looked good and so did few of the fight scenes. It's a Versus movie so I think cheesy scenes are to be expected.
The long wrist blades never bothered me, in fact I would say its more practical to have weapons that has longer reach against the Aliens. Acid blood ruins everyone's day.
I wouldn't say their design looked good however, as their faces are less intimidating than the predators of their own movies.
And that they moved like big dummies without any grace, wich was also really bad.
For all the defending I did for at least the first one, the AVP movies were the only ones I havent upgraded to BluRay mainly because of bland and uninteresting releases. I did get them today so with the snowstorm just behind me, im looking forward to seeing them on Blu for the first time
AvP:R on Bluray: Now the pitch darkness is in HD!
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Dec 17, 2020, 09:34:33 PM
AvP:R on Bluray: Now the pitch darkness is in HD!
Ha! Im actually curious as to how it looks like on Blu
Better according to AVPR fans
Quote from: Kradan on Dec 17, 2020, 10:06:16 PM
Better according to AVPR fans
Honestly, I've never had a problem making out what's happening.
Neither have I. It's just a joke that keeps on repeating itself
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Dec 17, 2020, 10:07:32 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Dec 17, 2020, 10:06:16 PM
Better according to AVPR fans
Honestly, I've never had a problem making out what's happening.
What happened to Drew?
Remembering the characters names is another story...
Is the correct answer.
AVPR looked cheap and really needed a better DOP. AVP looks great. Paul W.S. Anderson movies are stupid but beautiful like Michael Bay movies
I remember there was a character named Parker. Or maybe it was Dallas. Either way, there was a character with a name that was a nod to someone from Alien. Can't put a face to the name even if I wanted to, though.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Dec 17, 2020, 10:49:10 PM
I remember there was a character named Parker. Or maybe it was Dallas. Either way, there was a character with a name that was a nod to someone from Alien. Can't put a face to the name even if I wanted to, though.
Not-Ripley was called Dallas.
Nah that was Kelly.
And the word "nod" doing a lot of heavy lifting there. ;D
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Dec 17, 2020, 10:31:46 PM
Remembering the characters names is another story...
:D I actually thought he made a joke but googled if theres any Drew in AVPR and was surprised there was
Quote from: Scott Conover on Sep 29, 2018, 05:01:22 PM
It's actually pretty dang good! Super cheesy, but really fun. It pays respect to both franchises while still doing its own thing and having fun with the ip.
Super underrated imo
Recently re-watched this myself... its not great, I like it less now than i did and initially I thought it was ok, but after years gone by, I've just come to the realisation its a bad movie. I love the ideas buried within the concept, that aspect of the movie I still really, really like! And maybe a couple of cool quick shots/moments here and there e.g. the cloaked ship flying about the camp... but yeah, such a missed opportunity.
I was a big fan of AvP 2 on the PC and was hoping for something similar at the time... we can dream.
Just rewatched it and well, it was worse than I remembered. I still stand by the first half of the film. I think its really good, but most of the stuff after the Predators enter the temple is pretty bad and silly in places. Some weird dialogue in the film too. This is in contrast to my recent rewatching of the original films when I was even more engaged than I thought I would be, in awe like ever before
Did you watch Rez though?
Quotethe cloaked ship flying about the camp...
Fair call.
Quote from: SM on Dec 17, 2020, 10:28:30 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Dec 17, 2020, 10:07:32 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Dec 17, 2020, 10:06:16 PM
Better according to AVPR fans
Honestly, I've never had a problem making out what's happening.
What happened to Drew?
What did happen to Drew? Did he just disappear in the hospital?
Dissolved into darkness
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Dec 18, 2020, 08:25:11 AM
Did you watch Rez though?
No. Skipped it. I think I havent seen it from start to finish in well over 10 years. I tried to rewatch it a few years ago , but all the joking aside its just a movie thats on a very different tone and feel than what Im attracted to in the first 3 films. I made it maybe about 10 minutes in and decided its just not the style or feel that Im into. And the god awful alien design is sad to look at and unfortunately in this film shown in full light
Is that not an issue in the third film?
What ?
Quote from: SM on Dec 18, 2020, 12:33:53 PM
Is that not an issue in the third film?
The alien in full light? Only briefly but hes more often bathed in great cinematography
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Y8TeDSWNfAQ/XshoT8MzRoI/AAAAAAAADsg/7E0wlaQEXVIiekJjJx4F0YEB7aBRUB37gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/steamrunner.png)
(https://www.oscarchamps.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/1992-Alien-3-02.jpg)
Sigourney sells that scene though
Quote from: StrangeShape on Dec 18, 2020, 12:24:17 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Dec 18, 2020, 08:25:11 AM
Did you watch Rez though?
No. Skipped it. I think I havent seen it from start to finish in well over 10 years. I tried to rewatch it a few years ago , but all the joking aside its just a movie thats on a very different tone and feel than what Im attracted to in the first 3 films. I made it maybe about 10 minutes in and decided its just not the style or feel that Im into. And the god awful alien design is sad to look at and unfortunately in this film shown in full light
It's okay Rez, I still love you.
Quote from: SM on Dec 18, 2020, 08:32:42 PM
(https://www.oscarchamps.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/1992-Alien-3-02.jpg)
But thats a split second shot
Quote from: StrangeShape on Dec 18, 2020, 09:21:44 PM
Quote from: SM on Dec 18, 2020, 08:32:42 PM
(https://www.oscarchamps.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/1992-Alien-3-02.jpg)
But thats a split second shot
I love A3, but it does hurt the eye though.
Heres to me the fundamental difference between AVP and A:R, between how to do it right and how to do it wrong, subjectively of course. AVP and A:R have the same shot of the alien roaring in triumph after a kill. Resurection lights it bright with full visibility (and gallons of slime) and AVP actually creates a great mood and visual. Also, in Resurection the alien growls like a generic monster, while in AVP the creepy squeal is back. So for me, AVP righted a lot of wrongs
(https://www.cap-that.com/alien/04/extended/images/alien-resurrection(1997)extended_1914.jpg)
(https://www.cap-that.com/avp/images/AVP(2004)_4470.jpg)
Res to me will always be a lesser Alien film because it is the most tonally off from the rest of the franchise. Even new trash like Prometheus feels more like the early trilogy than Res does.
Creature design was not the best, but the least of its issues. The fact that the script keeps continually poking fun at itself and the franchise is.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2020, 05:50:08 AM
Res to me will always be a lesser Alien film because it is the most tonally off from the rest of the franchise. Even new trash like Prometheus feels more like the early trilogy than Res does.
Creature design was not the best, but the least of its issues. The fact that the script keeps continually poking fun at itself and the franchise is.
Agreed on all accounts
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2020, 05:50:08 AM
Res to me will always be a lesser Alien film because it is the most tonally off from the rest of the franchise.
Least of my concerns tbh
To each their own.
You yourself say, there's the trilogy and then there's the rest. I don't know why a tonal shift would be an issue in parts of "the rest".
Because if there hadn't been, I might actually hold the "quadrilogy" in high regard and not just the Trilogy.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Dec 18, 2020, 09:21:44 PM
Quote from: SM on Dec 18, 2020, 08:32:42 PM
(https://www.oscarchamps.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/1992-Alien-3-02.jpg)
But thats a split second shot
No, it isn't.
I remember seeing it for the first time in 92 and thinking "Seriously??"
Same with some of those hokey full view shots during the climax.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Dec 19, 2020, 05:37:22 AM
Heres to me the fundamental difference between AVP and A:R, between how to do it right and how to do it wrong, subjectively of course. AVP and A:R have the same shot of the alien roaring in triumph after a kill. Resurection lights it bright with full visibility (and gallons of slime) and AVP actually creates a great mood and visual. Also, in Resurection the alien growls like a generic monster, while in AVP the creepy squeal is back. So for me, AVP righted a lot of wrongs
(https://www.cap-that.com/alien/04/extended/images/alien-resurrection(1997)extended_1914.jpg)
(https://www.cap-that.com/avp/images/AVP(2004)_4470.jpg)
Resurrection Aliens also burp a lot
Quote from: StrangeShape on Dec 19, 2020, 05:51:35 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2020, 05:50:08 AM
Res to me will always be a lesser Alien film because it is the most tonally off from the rest of the franchise. Even new trash like Prometheus feels more like the early trilogy than Res does.
Creature design was not the best, but the least of its issues. The fact that the script keeps continually poking fun at itself and the franchise is.
Agreed on all accounts
My Res blu gets the least play for me out of all of the Alien, Predator and AvP films. I know it has its fans here, but I truly find it personally insufferable to watch. While it's playing I say, why am I not just watching Alien or Aliens again? :)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 19, 2020, 01:41:04 PM
While it's playing I say, why am I not just watching Alien or Aliens again? :)
Maybe 'cause you've just finished watching them like, Idk, 15 minutes ago and you're not in the mood to watch pile of depression which is Alien 3 ?
And because the Blu lets Darius Khondji's gorgeous cinematography really shine.
Quote from: SM on Dec 19, 2020, 08:22:14 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Dec 18, 2020, 09:21:44 PM
Quote from: SM on Dec 18, 2020, 08:32:42 PM
(https://www.oscarchamps.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/1992-Alien-3-02.jpg)
But thats a split second shot
No, it isn't.
I remember seeing it for the first time in 92 and thinking "Seriously??"
Same with some of those hokey full view shots during the climax.
Still, relatively brief shots plus pretty much all the bad ones are puppet shots. The Alien was lit almost as well as in the other two
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1ativ_h52Cw/XqosNh67-YI/AAAAAAAADlU/6eyi4b036fg00UspI__B9EaUmIN_Vx-5wCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/fe9.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pzFAJ6qnpwo/Xsxw_Sx8jkI/AAAAAAAADzo/kQzZsFH3a3sREFiJuzJk2FZkFHRGCAGSACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/alien3addon4.png)
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2020, 06:33:12 AM
Because if there hadn't been, I might actually hold the "quadrilogy" in high regard and not just the Trilogy.
One day you will fall into one of my traps. But I guess it's not today.
It doesn't bother me that people like Res.
I think it is a watchable creature flick, I just don't like it associated with the main franchise. As a standalone, it is fine.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2020, 05:13:14 PM
It doesn't bother me that people like Res.
I think it is a watchable creature flick, I just don't like it associated with the main franchise. As a standalone, it is fine.
Pretty much how I feel.
That's just an argument I can't get behind at all.
If it wasn't an alien film I wouldn't mind it as a sci-fi monster flick. It's just not a good alien film at all, doesn't fit the franchise imo.
Yeah, people say it all the time, but I'm not feeling it as an argument.
I don't think Resurrection is a terrible movie. It's a "weird" one. When I'm in right state of mind I can get a lot of enjoyment out of it
Oh, and I like Newborn. I think he's cute
The Newborn is actually pretty impressive, and the hate it gets shows how effective it was imo.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Dec 19, 2020, 09:05:03 PM
The Newborn is actually pretty impressive, and the hate it gets shows how effective it was imo.
Wait...
wut?(https://i.imgur.com/yf2VPeu.gif)
#RevealThe39(https://i.ibb.co/WgHRbqz/Screenshot-20201219-162650-Chrome.jpg)
;D
Do I really need to remind you of your love for AVPR ? I'm with CB on that one
Quote from: Kradan on Dec 19, 2020, 09:49:17 PM
Do I really need to remind you of your love for AVPR ? I'm with CB on that one
Yes, but not over Alien, Aliens, Alien 3... Prometheus even. :)
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Dec 19, 2020, 09:05:03 PM
The Newborn is actually pretty impressive, and the hate it gets shows how effective it was imo.
Technically the thing is a God-damned marvel.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 19, 2020, 10:31:28 PM
Technically the thing is a God-damned marvel.
Honestly curious, what makes the Newborn a technical marvel to you, compared to all the creature work you've seen up to that point?
I agree that the Newborn really is an absolutely impressive feat, technically speaking (and I'd argue design wise as well, as a repulsive medley of grotesque and strangely sympathetic); the actual animatronic itself is so damn expressive, very unlike anything else we had ever seen in the franchise prior to that point. Thematically, it's the final nail in the coffin, that one last abomination that brings together the "Perfect Organism" and the impurity of human evolution/experimentation. It's a thing that shouldn't exist, and won't for much longer, and that last little 'f**k you' (at least, as far in the timeline as the films have taken us) to humanity's ever-growing attempts to get their hands on this thing.
I truly want to see that movie you're describing. :)
I want to understand how AVPR is supposed to age like a fine wine
Touché! :D
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 19, 2020, 10:42:55 PM
Honestly curious, what makes the Newborn a technical marvel to you, compared to all the creature work you've seen up to that point?
How well it moves, how well the skin stretches and sags and draws over the musculature and skeleton, the performance they got out of it. It's one of the best animatronics put to screen.
Yeah the range of expressions they could perform. Was curious that ADIs Predators never had that level of believability.
Scar had plenty of range of expression -- arguably too much with some of his reactions in the film. It went into cartoon territory sometimes.
The 'skin' around the mandibles always shat me in AvP how it didn't snap back taut.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 19, 2020, 10:01:12 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Dec 19, 2020, 09:49:17 PM
Do I really need to remind you of your love for AVPR ? I'm with CB on that one
Yes, but not over Alien, Aliens, Alien 3... Prometheus even. :)
I'm sorry, when did I say that?
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Dec 20, 2020, 01:03:37 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 19, 2020, 10:01:12 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Dec 19, 2020, 09:49:17 PM
Do I really need to remind you of your love for AVPR ? I'm with CB on that one
Yes, but not over Alien, Aliens, Alien 3... Prometheus even. :)
I'm sorry, when did I say that?
You never did. Was just playing around that we found one of the 39 who picked Res as their all time favorite. :)
Quote from: SiL on Dec 20, 2020, 12:10:38 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 19, 2020, 10:42:55 PM
Honestly curious, what makes the Newborn a technical marvel to you, compared to all the creature work you've seen up to that point?
How well it moves, how well the skin stretches and sags and draws over the musculature and skeleton, the performance they got out of it. It's one of the best animatronics put to screen.
Hmm, I guess after ET, Gremlins, American Werewolf in London, Jurassic Park, The Thing, Chucky, Harry and the Hendersons, Neverending Story, Alien, Aliens, Predator, Predator 2, etc. etc. etc. years before it never stood out to me. Overall while I find the design disappointing, it's not a bad effect to me, just never found it personally distinct enough to classify it a marvel.
Tbh I probably did vote for it as a laugh.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 20, 2020, 02:01:27 AM
Hmm, I guess after ET, Gremlins, American Werewolf in London, Jurassic Park, The Thing, Chucky, Harry and the Hendersons, Neverending Story, Alien, Aliens, Predator, Predator 2, etc. etc. etc. years before it never stood out to me. Overall while I find the design disappointing, it's not a bad effect to me, just never found it personally distinct enough to classify it a marvel.
If we're measuring on a technical level the Newborn outshines most of those. The original Alien for example wasn't technically impressive at all -- the suit was constantly falling apart and Giger lamented the lack of expertise in the people tasked with its fabrication in his diary.
Aliens glued latex onto spandex suits - ingenious, certainly, but technically very basic. I'd label the Queen a marvel for what they were able to do with two guys in a rubber suit, and convinced Spielberg that the dinosaurs could be realised for his film years later -- also technical marvels.
Quote from: Kradan on Dec 19, 2020, 09:02:25 PM
I don't think Resurrection is a terrible movie. It's a "weird" one. When I'm in right state of mind I can get a lot of enjoyment out of it
Oh, and I like Newborn. I think he's cute
Do you think the Resurrection video game is better than the movie?
I thought the Res videogame was an underrated horror shooter for its time.
It certainly had more atmosphere than the movie.
The Res game was miles better than the movie in about every way. It was tense, it was scary, and it had a more interesting story.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Dec 20, 2020, 02:05:17 AM
Tbh I probably did vote for it as a laugh.
Hey, still, we like what we like! I'm just happy you're on team Requiem with me over AvP! 8)👍
Quote from: SiL on Dec 20, 2020, 02:35:56 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 20, 2020, 02:01:27 AM
Hmm, I guess after ET, Gremlins, American Werewolf in London, Jurassic Park, The Thing, Chucky, Harry and the Hendersons, Neverending Story, Alien, Aliens, Predator, Predator 2, etc. etc. etc. years before it never stood out to me. Overall while I find the design disappointing, it's not a bad effect to me, just never found it personally distinct enough to classify it a marvel.
If we're measuring on a technical level the Newborn outshines most of those. The original Alien for example wasn't technically impressive at all -- the suit was constantly falling apart and Giger lamented the lack of expertise in the people tasked with its fabrication in his diary. Aliens glued latex onto spandex suits - ingenious, certainly, but technically very basic. I'd label the Queen a marvel for what they were able to do with two guys in a rubber suit, and convinced Spielberg that the dinosaurs could be realised for his film years later -- also technical marvels.
Yeah with Alien, that's fair. With Aliens I was thinking specifically of the Queen. But performances like from E.T.'s emoting animatronic head is far better than the Newborn to me and that was 15 years earlier. And Spielberg's T-Rex is more of what I'd describe as a marvel, but I guess, to be fair, it's all very subjective.
That other marvels exist doesn't preclude the Newborn from being one.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 20, 2020, 03:26:38 AM
That other marvels exist doesn't preclude the Newborn from being one.
Well I think with being a marvel it contains a level of surprise and astonishment of its time. James Cameron's T-1000 was a marvel in 1991. The similar shape shifting Terminator in 2019's Dark Fate, although well done, not so much.
Sure, but ET's skin isn't as convincing as the Newborn. The way that thing's flesh moves brings it to life.
You knew this day would come, Voodoo. The Newborn is a national treasure now. Thanks to ADI ;D
(https://i.ibb.co/2k61S3w/images-5.jpg)
Quote from: SiL on Dec 20, 2020, 02:53:42 AM
The Res game was miles better than the movie in about every way. It was tense, it was scary, and it had a more interesting story.
Yeah, and while video games are a different kind of media,
Resurrection would have been better as a horror film.
I saw
Prometheus the other day and thought
"ok maybe with a better script and a better edition would have been a better science fiction movie". But it will still be that way. A good science fiction movie, but not a good
Alien movie. Yes, the movie series has different visions contributed by different directors, and that includes
Prometheus &
Covenant since 21st century Scott is another director (and another person) than Scott from 40 years ago. The problem is that, sometimes it's better to go back to basics. Or putting it another way, if you get very experimental the original essence is lost. Prometheus is wonderfull and biblical in scale. But it was never scary, just as Resurrection was always like a comedy and not like the first three movies, which despite being different, were still serious horror movies.
I have mixed feelings because I like the prequels. But sometimes it seems more like an idea that sounded good on paper but was either not well executed, or it was not for an Alien movie.
Raised by Wolves, while not entirely Scott's invention, appears to be everything the director wanted for the
Alien prequels. This fabric of Religion vs science, mechanical abominations, God is the machine and all that shit. :-\
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 19, 2020, 11:58:04 PM
Touché! :D
I'm sorry :D
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Dec 20, 2020, 02:47:30 AM
Quote from: Kradan on Dec 19, 2020, 09:02:25 PM
I don't think Resurrection is a terrible movie. It's a "weird" one. When I'm in right state of mind I can get a lot of enjoyment out of it
Oh, and I like Newborn. I think he's cute
Do you think the Resurrection video game is better than the movie?
Hard and scary as f**k. I can't play it without cheats
Got stuck at the Queen and haven't been back for yonks.
Facehuggers were huge pain in ass in that game. At least in AvP games and Isolation you're mercifully sent back to last checkpoint after being facehugged. But in Resurrectiom game you could be facehugged half a dozen of times in a row which is super-annoying
On the other hand, each time you facehugged IIRC "chestburster counter" is reset so in theory you can postpone "birth" for a long time if you find enough little bastards
I think once hugged the others ignore you, from memory.
I remember it opposite way
https://youtu.be/SDKB1bsdkL8 (https://youtu.be/SDKB1bsdkL8)
Ok, I've checked this guy's video. As far as I can tell, yes, you can't be re-impregnated again, so no "chestburster counter" reset, but it's possible facehuggers would still wanna kiss your face anyway which takes precious time and makes you wanna tear your hair off
Quote from: SiL on Dec 20, 2020, 03:53:22 AM
Sure, but ET's skin isn't as convincing as the Newborn. The way that thing's flesh moves brings it to life.
To be fair, it does help when your skin is covered in slime and shot in low light. ET did not have such luxuries!
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Dec 20, 2020, 05:14:18 AM
You knew this day would come, Voodoo. The Newborn is a national treasure now. Thanks to ADI ;D
:D
The Newborn isn't shot in low light. And that wouldn't change the movement and physical properties of the skin.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 20, 2020, 08:43:49 PM
The Newborn isn't shot in low light. And that wouldn't change the movement and physical properties of the skin.
Sure compared to AvP Requiem it's well lit, but compared to most scenes in ET it's not. And the slime hides a lot. Alas, regardless of how I feel about its design, the Newborn is not a bad effect, I just would never qualify it as a marvel myself. Different strokes for different folks.
The newborn looked like a pale booger.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 20, 2020, 09:24:01 PM
The newborn looked like a pale booger.
I'm never going to u̶n̶s̶e̶e̶ unread this comparison now. :laugh:
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 20, 2020, 09:23:04 PM
Sure compared to AvP Requiem it's well lit, but compared to most scenes in ET it's not.
That's very disingenuous. Not being full daylight doesn't mean low light.
(And for the record I dislike the design and the concept. I just love the actual effect.)
Quote from: SiL on Dec 20, 2020, 09:50:40 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 20, 2020, 09:23:04 PM
Sure compared to AvP Requiem it's well lit, but compared to most scenes in ET it's not.
That's very disingenuous. Not being full daylight doesn't mean low light.
(And for the record I dislike the design and the concept. I just love the actual effect.)
SiL. We both know Alien Resurrection. There's no room for, nor am I being "disingenuous" i.e. insincere or false. So please keep it respectful my man. We'll just end it here and agree to disagree.
I full truly and always will love and defend the Newborn. In fourth film of the franchise we thought we've seen it all and knew it all too well and then BAM! Newborn appears! Disfigured, grotesque yet sentient and, idk if it's good phrase, relatable to. His mimics and eyes made him sad and lots on one hand and attacks of aggression, scary as f**k on the other. For me the live and fate of Newborn is tragedy also for Ripley because finally the only thing like her, related to her in whole universe is this innocent little monster she has to reject for good of corrupted mankind. God damn it, THAT was one hell of an ending!
On the technical side I'm with SiL. Newborn is animatronic marvel and should be acknowledged as such.
Quote from: Master on Dec 21, 2020, 12:21:58 AM
this innocent little monster
Gediman and DiStephano strongly disagrees :laugh:
;D
After having watched the "Alienate" fanedit it is my own head canon that Ripley becomes the Newborn. (seriously, some of the cleverest editing I have ever seen, makes the movie a lot better.)
The concept of the Newborn was fine. I just wish that the regular adult creatures looked more like Aliens and less like generic space monsters, and I wish the Newborn had retained more of its nightmarish qualities from the various concepts. There was one where it would have been the size of a human child, very thin built. That would have been really cool.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Dec 27, 2020, 10:34:20 PM
The concept of the Newborn was fine. I just wish that the regular adult creatures looked more like Aliens and less like generic space monsters, and I wish the Newborn had retained more of it's nightmarish qualities from the various concepts. There was one where it would have been the size of a human child, very thin built. That would have been really cool.
Me too!!
All that goo, all over them, in every shots, that's the french touch for ya ! ;D
Honestly, just something more like Big Chap without the cowl, perhaps still retaining the white colouration, would have been spot on for me.
Actually I never minded Newborn. He was a gross, grotesque genetic mutation so he works as that
I actually don't mind AVP as much as I used too. It is campy and have some effects that feel quite out of place, but the premise kind of works. I also appreciate that the Aliens aren't there just to serve as cannon fodder for the humans and punching bags for the Predators.
It easily ranks AVP higher than AVP:R and THE PRED while deferentially ranking below PREDS, A:R, P2 and PROM.
When it comes to the fleshy look of the Aliens I always attributed it to the fact that the way Predators have access to Aliens is through some kind of cloning. The bulky Predator look can be explained by cultural/ethnic or clan-specific differences and preferences.
I think Anderson did well in researching the history of Alien and knowing about the temples and all that shiz in the early Alien works, he just can't pull his idea over into any semblance of a decent script.
He's like an idea guy who needs to hand off his story ideas to actual screenwriters.
I actually think he meant to do well and wasn't just trying to mail in a cheap cash in he just doesn't have the talent to do anything more than cheezy popcorn flicks.