http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bacq0gHnyvo# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bacq0gHnyvo#)
The question is asked at 2:40
and answered around 3:28
Did he slip the name of the sequel as Exodus?
-Rakai'Thwei
That's a different film he's making that's about Moses.
^ It's already shooting and it stars Batman as Moses.
So.. It's being written
We didnt know about this already! :P
Quote from: Blacklabel on Oct 27, 2013, 05:11:13 AM
^ It's already shooting and it stars Batman as Moses.
So.. It's being written
We didnt know about this already! :P
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fyosoyungamer.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F08%2Fmikes-batman-moses-combo-version2_zpsaba271ab.jpg&hash=aad06f56d6bc9b81f8eed2e411d7c0e68f3bb905)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2F32862773b9361b972e639842c7ea52bb%2Ftumblr_mj46h7cYQf1rvsirlo1_250.gif&hash=0e12a2f452ceae39a1bc21a57526f271a4818c4d)
So its been written as we speak, by who? Lindelof? Abrahams is too busy with Star Wars,Cloverfield 2 and whatever that guy is doing.
That little dwarf Lindelof is gonna put terror on poor old Ridley again f**kin munchkin.
A guy called jack Plagen is writing it, he wrote transcendence for Wally pisfler
Well we know when Transcendence comes out. ;D
Lindelof is off to have a gold paint enema all over someone else's movie project instead of Ridley's
Dang. Same state it's been in since last June. Definitely looking like Development Hell at this point.
RS should scrap the (unnecessary) Blade Runner sequel and pour everything into Prometheus 2.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Oct 27, 2013, 02:21:43 PM
Dang. Same state it's been in since last June. Definitely looking like Development Hell at this point.
RS should scrap the (unnecessary) Blade Runner sequel and pour everything into Prometheus 2.
I'd actually almost prefer it the other way around - I kind of want to see what he'd do with a Blade Runner sequel.
Anyone not bothered to watch the video, here's the gist of it...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1225.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee395%2FChrisPachi%2FBeingWritten_zps6641a73b.jpg&hash=95bf0e4dbd37a7267fdefbc6ad8f49316f606152)
Nice to hear something from the horses mouth though - thanks for posting.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 28, 2013, 03:03:51 AM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Oct 27, 2013, 02:21:43 PM
Dang. Same state it's been in since last June. Definitely looking like Development Hell at this point.
RS should scrap the (unnecessary) Blade Runner sequel and pour everything into Prometheus 2.
I'd actually almost prefer it the other way around - I kind of want to see what he'd do with a Blade Runner sequel.
That's a bad Idea, Well you see 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?' only needs one movie and thats Blade Runner.
One movie is enough for Blade Runner..
MORE NEWS (kinda)
In the latest issue of Empire magazine Ridley Scott is asked about the progress of the Prometheus sequel. He states 'Prometheus 2 is written. I've got the science fiction thing going' and he then goes on to say 'Prometheus was a great experience for me. Chasing number 2, we can start to develop the grand idea'. Scott also briefly mentions that he's still working on The Forever Wars and that Blade Runner 2 is still being developed.
ALSO Michael Fassbender is interviewed and asked the same question. His response: 'Honestly I have no idea. They tell me that it's going to happen' and then confirms that both he and Noomi Rapace are already signed on and states that he can't wait to go on that journey again. He also says that he's happy with the response towards the first film and is glad people are talking about it regardless of whether they love or hate it.
I'll post the pages when I can.
..so they are "seemingly" taking their sweet time on getting it right?...Let's wait and see....
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 28, 2013, 03:03:51 AM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Oct 27, 2013, 02:21:43 PM
Dang. Same state it's been in since last June. Definitely looking like Development Hell at this point.
RS should scrap the (unnecessary) Blade Runner sequel and pour everything into Prometheus 2.
I'd actually almost prefer it the other way around - I kind of want to see what he'd do with a Blade Runner sequel.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm bubbling over with curiosity too (BR and Alien are my two favourite films). But I fear some of the 'magic' of Blade Runner might be lost by tying a sequel to it, whereas I feel that Prometheus really needs some expanding...
Quote from: Gazz on Oct 28, 2013, 03:58:41 PM
Scott also briefly mentions that he's still working on The Forever Wars...
Can't wait for that! Loved the book.
Can't help feeling that Prometheus needs to be a trilogy of it's own, never mind a sequel.
Quote from: Huntress84 on Oct 28, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
Can't help feeling that Prometheus needs to be a trilogy of it's own, never mind a sequel.
Scott has said in the past that Prometheus needs two sequels, with the third film tying in to Alien.
Mind you, he does say a lot of things. :P
He's also said any sequels will move further away from Alien.
Quote from: SM on Oct 28, 2013, 10:35:38 PM
He's also said any sequels will move further away from Alien.
True dat. And personally, I hope they do.
Good to get official confirmation... :)
http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=39194 (http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=39194)
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Oct 28, 2013, 04:50:19 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 28, 2013, 03:03:51 AM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Oct 27, 2013, 02:21:43 PM
Dang. Same state it's been in since last June. Definitely looking like Development Hell at this point.
RS should scrap the (unnecessary) Blade Runner sequel and pour everything into Prometheus 2.
I'd actually almost prefer it the other way around - I kind of want to see what he'd do with a Blade Runner sequel.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm bubbling over with curiosity too (BR and Alien are my two favourite films). But I fear some of the 'magic' of Blade Runner might be lost by tying a sequel to it, whereas I feel that Prometheus really needs some expanding...
It shouldn't - even if Blade Runner 2 is total garbage, the original movie still exists and you can always re-watch it. :)
Reading this News story about Ridley Scott and Prometheus reminds me of James Cameron and Avatar.
I wonder if Prometheus 2 and 3 are to be filmed back to back
F**K NO!! So they gonna rape the franchise two more times.
Nice to hear this news. Looking forward to seeing where things go from here. Should be a trip.
Quote from: locusta on Oct 29, 2013, 04:24:53 PM
F**K NO!! So they gonna rape the franchise two more times.
Luckily you won't have to watch.
Quote from: locusta on Oct 29, 2013, 04:24:53 PM
F**K NO!! So they gonna rape the franchise two more times.
Long, hard and slow...
Lubrication not optional.
Quote from: locusta on Oct 29, 2013, 04:24:53 PM
F**K NO!! So they gonna rape the franchise two more times.
Who are they? It's Ridley Scott who made the franchise to begin with. So if the franchise crashes and burns, then thank him. After all he started it, so he should end it.
I think Ridley is full of shit. I don't think anything is written. He just wants to make it but has no idea what to do yet. He just said that to throw a bone for the fans, the same way Raimi often says he'll make another Army of Darkness.
I think what we'll get is maybe another 10 years of waiting, Ridley becoming producer, someone else directing, and a even more confusing story.
Quote from: genocyber on Oct 30, 2013, 12:14:14 AM
I think Ridley is full of shit. I don't think anything is written. He just wants to make it but has no idea what to do yet. He just said that to throw a bone for the fans, the same way Raimi often says he'll make another Army of Darkness.
I think what we'll get is maybe another 10 years of waiting, Ridley becoming producer, someone else directing, and a even more confusing story.
NON-BELIEVER!
HERETIC!!!
Lol.
Can you just picture how well lindelofs mess has been cleaned up with a script written in the last 2 months?
And now they're saying that 2 AND 3 are written!
So whats the over under that Jack Paglen is the fastest most talented writer ever?
For bonus points,
after the counselor, prometheus, robin hood, american gangster, kingdom of heaven pretty much going all the way back to Bladerunner, what are the chances that Ridley has suddenly figured out how to recognize the difference between a decent script and human feces?
Edit: I dont know much about this Jack Paglan character, but I remember when his name first came up regarding prom2 that everybody said that his transcendence script was the best floating around hollywood.
The funny part is that a quick look at IMDB says that that script has been re-written by no less then 3 people at this point.
And it doesn't seem like they would be lindelofing it like they did to speights,
since none of his 3 rewriters have much more experience or name value then he does.
The just keep rewriting it.
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 30, 2013, 01:10:10 AM
Lol.
Can you just picture how well lindelofs mess has been cleaned up with a script written in the last 2 months?
And now they're saying that 2 AND 3 are written!
So whats the over under that Jack Paglen is the fastest most talented writer ever?
For bonus points,
after the counselor, prometheus, robin hood, american gangster, kingdom of heaven pretty much going all the way back to Bladerunner, what are the chances that Ridley has suddenly figured out how to recognize a decent script from a hole in the ground?
really wouldnt put american gangster alongside kingdom of heaven! robiin hood was a strong film its only downside was that it was too old fashioned.
as for the P2 already ebing written, who knows. i wouldnt blame him for bull shitting just to keep fan boys from pestering him about it. he must be asked it at eveer press conference and junket hes been at since the first one
As long as whatever he does stays out of future Alien releases (like videogames) I'll be happy. Do what you like Ridley, I'm not f**king watching it.
The last thing I'd want to see is this excrement seep into the already poor videogame/comic/novel tie ins however. A:CM was wank enough as is, without further contamination.
:laugh:
You know your rage has reached ludicrous proportions when you think Ridley Scott could've made A:CM worse.
I liked Prometheus, even though it had many flaws. Even if it takes a while to actually get it going, I think Scott will get his shit together this time around. So i'm looking forward to this!
Quote from: Elicas on Oct 30, 2013, 01:50:38 AM
As long as whatever he does stays out of future Alien releases (like videogames) I'll be happy. Do what you like Ridley, I'm not f**king watching it.
The last thing I'd want to see is this excrement seep into the already poor videogame/comic/novel tie ins however. A:CM was wank enough as is, without further contamination.
so you'd place all that over a movie? way to lose your perspective man
Quote from: xeno-kaname on Oct 30, 2013, 01:53:09 AM
I liked Prometheus, even though it had many flaws. Even if it takes a while to actually get it going, I think Scott will get his shit together this time around. So i'm looking forward to this!
me too, no point hoping/looking for the worst like a few people do on here. apathy is at an all time high on here after acm and prometheus which is a shame
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Oct 30, 2013, 01:42:06 AM
really wouldnt put american gangster alongside kingdom of heaven! robiin hood was a strong film its only downside was that it was too old fashioned.
Why wouldn't you?
AG and KOH were both narrative catastrophes.
KOH looked nice enough and had a few interesting characters/scenes (I like the kooky guy with the dyed beard), but it meandered almost aimlessly for the entire runtime and I didn't see much difference in the DC either.
AG was even worse.
Not even a few good scenes.
Gladiator was okay.
(Not GREAT!)
I actually haven't seen robin hood, but I've read reviews that describe some of the stupidest things a bad script might have to offer.
tiger-grrl warriors on mid evil battle fields and something about WW2 style amphibious assault barges?
The background story of him mangling that original script also seems to support my theory.
Its funny how everyone says the script for the counselor is the biggest flaw.
Cormac is a great
novelist.
But once again I think this could be ascribed to Ridley's utter obliviousness to script quality, and not recognizing that it may have had many attributes but needed a few tightening rewrites.
I actually hope he DOES do P2 as long as it keeps him away from a BR sequel.
I'm honestly kind of intrigued imagining how bad it will be.
i agree with you on KOH and him doing the blade runner as it doesnt need to be done but american gangster was not a meandering mess and no good scenes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXCMz340CRg#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXCMz340CRg#ws)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8OMHtUg9sU#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8OMHtUg9sU#ws)
you need to rewatch it. it might not be the best gangster thriller but it certainly doesn't deserve to be bashed as much as you say
To put it into perspective - he bashes lots of things. A lot.
Quote from: SM on Oct 30, 2013, 02:05:47 AM
To put it into perspective - he bashes lots of things. A lot.
oh.... feel like iv wasted my time now
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 29, 2013, 01:00:22 PM
It shouldn't - even if Blade Runner 2 is total garbage, the original movie still exists and you can always re-watch it. :)
I've heard this perspective before, and I understand.
But the problem I have with it is that you cant go on a forum or a comment section without having to deal with the distraction of 13 year olds insisting that the latest mess ridley or the strauss brothers have made is canon.
(Yes I noticed your sig pic.)
It really does kind of shmutz some of the fun of many favorite movie.
So far I've been able to avoid the particular conversation, but I'm dreading the eventual confrontation with a prom child who insists that derelicts actually fly backwards.
That just doesn't sound like any kind of fun.
(True Alien doesn't specify which way they fly, but there's no evidence of backwards flight except via the diseased minds of the shambling remains of ridley and that scumbag damon lindelof, which I refuse to recognize.)
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Oct 30, 2013, 02:03:50 AM
i agree with you on KOH and him doing the blade runner as it doesnt need to be done but american gangster was not a meandering mess and no good scenes?
I had almost the same experience with AG as I had with prom.
I watched it the first time and tried to convince myself it was pretty good and I just needed to rewatch it.
Then I rewatched it and began to become discouraged.
And rewatched it multiple times until I became disappointed in AG,
horrified by Prom.
And I love Gangster flicks.
But I dont suffer any flick, sci-fi or gangster just for the genre.
I didn't think it was a good one.
But that just my opinion,
its not law or canon.
And thanks for the clip links.
@ SM,
only things that deserve it.
;)
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Oct 30, 2013, 01:53:22 AM
Quote from: Elicas on Oct 30, 2013, 01:50:38 AM
As long as whatever he does stays out of future Alien releases (like videogames) I'll be happy. Do what you like Ridley, I'm not f**king watching it.
The last thing I'd want to see is this excrement seep into the already poor videogame/comic/novel tie ins however. A:CM was wank enough as is, without further contamination.
so you'd place all that over a movie? way to lose your perspective man
Yes, all the games, comics and novels released so far were more enjoyable to me than Prometheus was. To have the things I disliked about Prom enter into those things I
do enjoy would directly impact my enjoyment of the whole franchise, that has yet to be released.
I've not lost my perspective, it's merely different than yours.
Quote from: Elicas on Oct 30, 2013, 03:18:06 AM
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Oct 30, 2013, 01:53:22 AM
Quote from: Elicas on Oct 30, 2013, 01:50:38 AM
As long as whatever he does stays out of future Alien releases (like videogames) I'll be happy. Do what you like Ridley, I'm not f**king watching it.
The last thing I'd want to see is this excrement seep into the already poor videogame/comic/novel tie ins however. A:CM was wank enough as is, without further contamination.
so you'd place all that over a movie? way to lose your perspective man
Yes, all the games, comics and novels released so far were more enjoyable to me than Prometheus was. To have the things I disliked about Prom enter into those things I do enjoy would directly impact my enjoyment of the whole franchise, that has yet to be released.
I've not lost my perspective, it's merely different than yours.
either way its a silly perspective
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Oct 30, 2013, 03:38:26 AM
Quote from: Elicas on Oct 30, 2013, 03:18:06 AM
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Oct 30, 2013, 01:53:22 AM
Quote from: Elicas on Oct 30, 2013, 01:50:38 AM
As long as whatever he does stays out of future Alien releases (like videogames) I'll be happy. Do what you like Ridley, I'm not f**king watching it.
The last thing I'd want to see is this excrement seep into the already poor videogame/comic/novel tie ins however. A:CM was wank enough as is, without further contamination.
so you'd place all that over a movie? way to lose your perspective man
Yes, all the games, comics and novels released so far were more enjoyable to me than Prometheus was. To have the things I disliked about Prom enter into those things I do enjoy would directly impact my enjoyment of the whole franchise that has yet to be released.
I've not lost my perspective, it's merely different than yours.
either way its a silly perspective
Ah I see, anyone with an opinion different to you is silly? Because we place value on different things?
That's the definition of a troll, "You think differently to me, hur dur you're stupid!". How dare you judge which parts of the franchise I'm allowed to enjoy?
Quote from: Elicas on Oct 30, 2013, 04:39:13 AM
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Oct 30, 2013, 03:38:26 AM
Quote from: Elicas on Oct 30, 2013, 03:18:06 AM
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Oct 30, 2013, 01:53:22 AM
Quote from: Elicas on Oct 30, 2013, 01:50:38 AM
As long as whatever he does stays out of future Alien releases (like videogames) I'll be happy. Do what you like Ridley, I'm not f**king watching it.
The last thing I'd want to see is this excrement seep into the already poor videogame/comic/novel tie ins however. A:CM was wank enough as is, without further contamination.
so you'd place all that over a movie? way to lose your perspective man
Yes, all the games, comics and novels released so far were more enjoyable to me than Prometheus was. To have the things I disliked about Prom enter into those things I do enjoy would directly impact my enjoyment of the whole franchise that has yet to be released.
I've not lost my perspective, it's merely different than yours.
either way its a silly perspective
Ah I see, anyone with an opinion different to you is silly? Because we place value on different things?
That's the definition of a troll, "You think differently to me, hur dur you're stupid!". How dare you judge which parts of the franchise I'm allowed to enjoy?
im pretty ballsy aren't i?
AVPG NEVER CHANGE :-* :-* :-* :-*
Prometheus had some interesting ideas, I don't think anyone can fight that; it just shouldn't have been holding hands with the Alien franchise. NIMBY, bitch.
Also, as an atheist and sci-fi geek, I couldn't connect very well with protagonist Elizabeth Shaw for MANY reasons; hell, I could better connect with Peter Weyland than her.
How does being a sci-fi geek make Weyland more relatable than Shaw?
And how does being an atheist correlate with a dude who's spent his entire life contemplating life's great mysteries to the point where he'll pay a trillion dollars to go meet God?
Meh, i rather hear about a new AVP movie that still takes place in present time rather than this.
Cause really hate Lucas for the prequels but that was nothing compared to what was done here.
Anyone who seriously thinks that AVP is, in any way, 'better' or has more technical merit that Prometheus needs a lesson in filmmaking and art appreciation... Promtheus' deleted scenes have more technical merit than AVP :/
Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 30, 2013, 07:41:23 AM
Anyone who seriously thinks that AVP is, in any way, 'better' or has more technical merit that Prometheus needs a lesson in filmmaking and art appreciation... Promtheus' deleted scenes have more technical merit than AVP :/
QFT
Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 30, 2013, 07:41:23 AM
Anyone who seriously thinks that AVP is, in any way, 'better' or has more technical merit that Prometheus needs a lesson in filmmaking and art appreciation... Promtheus' deleted scenes have more technical merit than AVP :/
Or is capable of forming an opinion.
Its atleast 2 years away and im already BORED with everything he has said.
Im done with this SNORE.
Quote from: Alien³ on Oct 30, 2013, 01:03:15 AM
Quote from: genocyber on Oct 30, 2013, 12:14:14 AM
I think Ridley is full of shit. I don't think anything is written. He just wants to make it but has no idea what to do yet. He just said that to throw a bone for the fans, the same way Raimi often says he'll make another Army of Darkness.
I think what we'll get is maybe another 10 years of waiting, Ridley becoming producer, someone else directing, and a even more confusing story.
NON-BELIEVER!
Face it, when it comes to making Alien films your always in for long waits year after year, and a disappointing payoff.
Good news. Watched Prometheus for the first time in a long time just the other day and don't understand the hate -well, I understand the hate from teenage fan boys who can't accept a film without lots of aliens in it - but beyond that, what I see in Prometheus is a return to the grand idea of an ancient weapon out of control.
I like that Ridley says he can expand the mythology, Prometheus was just the start of the mystery, and a far more interesting f**cked up life cycle mystery than the sequels to ALIEN ever attempted.
I loved the fact that despite it being more than thirty years on Ridley easily managed to make the films look related, whereas all the pretenders that followed in his wake just looked to the steam and grime and the big bad monster.
Thematically it's also great to see an atheist film taking a look at blind faith and throwing ancient alien perversion out there as 'God'.
Cool. Can't wait.
Quote from: SM on Oct 30, 2013, 05:27:54 AM
How does being a sci-fi geek make Weyland more relatable than Shaw?
And how does being an atheist correlate with a dude who's spent his entire life contemplating life's great mysteries to the point where he'll pay a trillion dollars to go meet God?
I was making 2 SEPERATE points on the matter, I wasn't saying they were interconnected.
As an atheist, I never really could understand the whole faith-thing that was surrounding Shaw's character; religion has been scientifically disproven yet she still clings to old beliefs, I think it would have been more pragmatic to reason out new beliefs rather than live with older and more outdated ones, then again this is something people still do in modern day so...
The other thing that bothered me was how Shaw felt she deserved answers just cause her boyfriend died and her faith was shaken. Dude, Weyland is about to die here, you could at least let him finish pleading for his life to the Engineer; he
did finance your expedition afterall. Also, other characters in the Alien franchise have lost more than her and they didn't feel like they were entitled to anything, they just lived with it.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 02:04:41 PM
Quote from: SM on Oct 30, 2013, 05:27:54 AM
How does being a sci-fi geek make Weyland more relatable than Shaw?
And how does being an atheist correlate with a dude who's spent his entire life contemplating life's great mysteries to the point where he'll pay a trillion dollars to go meet God?
I was making 2 SEPERATE points on the matter, I wasn't saying they were interconnected.
As an atheist, I never really could understand the whole faith-thing that was surrounding Shaw's character; religion has been scientifically disproven yet she still clings to old beliefs, I think it would have been more pragmatic to reason out new beliefs rather than live with older and more outdated ones, then again this is something people still do in modern day so...
The other thing that bothered me was how Shaw felt she deserved answers just cause her boyfriend died and her faith was shaken. Dude, Weyland is about to die here, you could at least let him finish pleading for his life to the Engineer; he did finance your expedition afterall. Also, other characters in the Alien franchise have lost more than her and they didn't feel line they were entitled to anything, they just lived with it.
I like your point about Shaw's entitlement, but honestly that just says a lot about her character. Weyland also had an entitlement thing going on, I really did like his little "God's never die" speech in the deleted scene. I guess at a slightly deeper level Shaw's actions at the end deviated from survival which has been the core of all the other Alien films, even Ripley in Alien 3 sacrifices herself in order to ensure the survival of the human race.
I also hated the whole God BS they put into this film, I mean the whole "so who created them" line, ever heard of DARWIN!? Urgh.
Quote from: Xenoscream on Oct 30, 2013, 02:36:13 PM
I also hated the whole God BS they put into this film, I mean the whole "so who created them" line, ever heard of DARWIN!? Urgh.
Yeah, I mean what if HYPOTHETICALLY we find proof that a spiritual God does exist? Are people going to ask, "So who created God?" or are they going to just assume this is THE real deal? Scientific answers are so underappreciated when compared to the spiritual ones people more often than not make-believe. Seriously, nobody likes a double standard.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 02:04:41 PMThe other thing that bothered me was how Shaw felt she deserved answers just cause her boyfriend died and her faith was shaken. Dude, Weyland is about to die here, you could at least let him finish pleading for his life to the Engineer; he did finance your expedition afterall.
All I can say is, every time I have a hostile alien life form ripped out of my uterus by a machine, my manners go right out the window.
Fair enough but as I said before, there are many other characters who have suffered more than she did and went away with less. Time to suck it up, Shaw.
Oh goodie....
Poopmetheus 2 aka the rapeing of the alien franchise part 2. >:(
*looks for the south park sketch of George lucas and Steven spielberg rapeing Indiana jones*
IMO, I am really starting to think that the reason Scott made Prometheus instead of an Alien prequel wasn't because the story evolved (as he claims), but because he was afraid no one was interested so he rebooted it into a spinoff. I mean, in comparison to Prometheus, how bad could this Alien prequel's script have been? Scott should have, at least, had the good grace to make Prometheus into its own separate franchise rather than drag Alien through the muck with it.
Maybe if the religious elements weren't so hamfisted and predictable, and characters who weren't slasher victims, Prometheus might have been better.
*Scientist woman finds out with real proof humans were made from aliens as nothing more than a throwaway experiment* "I still believe in God cuz its what I choose!"
*Scientists on billion dollar trip uncover find of the century*
"Lols lets touch that!"
"Bloody wankers gonna get high now in this dark cave!"
I just want to see an Alien go all smack-down on an Engineer.
Weird, I actually look forward to a sequel of Prometheus- and I was a Pro-hater of the film. :)
Prometheus? What's that?
I even don't wanna know.
Quote from: Mr. Runner on Oct 30, 2013, 07:39:50 PM
I just want to see an Alien go all smack-down on an Engineer.
Weird, I actually look forward to a sequel of Prometheus- and I was a Pro-hater of the film. :)
It's the high you get when hearing about a new film; it'll be replaced with disappointment, the type only Ridley Scott can bring to this messed up spinoff series.
go home Ridley you are drunk!
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 02:04:41 PM
As an atheist, I never really could understand the whole faith-thing that was surrounding Shaw's character; religion has been scientifically disproven yet she still clings to old beliefs,...
What is an Atheist?
That you've proven the extent of existence?
Or that you can slander anyone who doesn't agree with you?
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 30, 2013, 11:42:19 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 02:04:41 PM
As an atheist, I never really could understand the whole faith-thing that was surrounding Shaw's character; religion has been scientifically disproven yet she still clings to old beliefs,...
What is an Atheist?
That you've proven the extent of existence?
Or that you can slander anyone who doesn't agree with you?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=564849526922870&set=pb.272308546176971.-2207520000.1383176615.&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=564849526922870&set=pb.272308546176971.-2207520000.1383176615.&type=3&theater)
EDIT: And I was referring to what was going on in the movie, conventional religion HAS been disproven in the storyline, that's actually been stated by Ridley Scott himself.
what i see when new posts are added to this thread
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lkdt7oUh7K1qdom5qo1_400.gif&hash=d89ce9439eb238d3473b02d1dbb67bbb9a978dc4)
I'm not sure what either of you are saying without saying it yourself!
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 11:44:09 PM
EDIT: And I was referring to what was going on in the movie, conventional religion HAS been disproven in the storyline, that's actually been stated by Ridley Scott himself.
Okay.
In mind dead Ridleys "storyline"?
But since when has ridley expressed a story line?
What storyline?
Ridley doesn't know a script from his butt,
let alone a storyline!
People keep on trying to read "Well Ridley expresses a POV with his movies...", BUT ITS ALL FAN FICTION!
Ridley has NEVER said anything relating to his apologists theories in ANY interview!
Except in the vaguest lindelof-esque bullshitter terms!
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 30, 2013, 11:46:32 PM
I'm not sure what either of you are saying without saying it yourself!
Essentially, my link says that atheists don't pretend to know EVERYTHING, we just believe that the chances of deities actually existing parallels the chances of supernatural entities (like werewolves) actually existing.
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 30, 2013, 11:46:32 PM
Okay.
In mind dead Ridleys "storyline"?
But since when has ridley expressed a story line?
What storyline?
Ridley doesn't know a script from his butt,
let alone a storyline!
During an interview before the movie was released in theatres, he said that one of the themes of the movie was what will happen to your belief and faith in God if scientific progress revealed something so big it shakes the very foundations of your religion's history.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 11:56:45 PM
During an interview before the movie was released in theatres, he said that one of the themes of the movie was what will happen to your belief and faith in God if scientific progress revealed something so big it shakes the very foundations of your religion's history.
Sounds like a cool movie!
Are you suggesting that prometheus had anything to do with any of that?
I thought it was pretty obvious that it did. ???
Yeah The film did contain elements of that.
Take your hater goggles off bloke
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 12:14:22 AM
Sounds like a cool movie!
Are you suggesting that prometheus had anything to do with any of that?
Lol, ah... the sweet months between a movie's announcement date to its actual release... the most promising moments of its history. It's kinda like puberty now that I think of it; a movie'll either come out of it as a fully mature film with theme and meaning or it will be a bustling train wreck sleeping on the street.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 12:16:02 AM
I thought it was pretty obvious that it did. ???
RobThom was joking, Xeno. ;)
Sailed right over my head I guess. :(
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 11:56:45 PM
During an interview before the movie was released in theatres, he said that one of the themes of the movie was what will happen to your belief and faith in God if scientific progress revealed something so big it shakes the very foundations of your religion's history.
I dont know much about the Jews or the Muslims, but a lot of Christians accept evolution just fine.
It can fit with the most important aspects of Christian values.
Clumsily glomming space people onto the origin of man really isn't ground or Faith breaking.
Its not really all that clever.
The idea itself might not be all that novel or clever ("Chariots of the Gods" has been around for ages, etc), but it's the execution of that idea that matters.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 12:26:39 AM
... but it's the execution of that idea that matters.
I agree.
Prometheus definitely had some interesting ideas on that angle, but I just don't see why Ridley had to throw Alien into that mess; even before the film came out, I knew that the themes between the two films were too different to be easily cohesive... if at all.
I agree with that. Prometheus had some neat ideas, but saddling it with the "it's an Alien prequel" baggage didn't help the film in my opinion. I'd have preferred it if he'd gone on a completely independent track - I'm curious what kind of stuff he could have come up with if he wasn't trying to tenuously tie it to 'Alien'.
The ties were pretty loose anyhow at least for me.
Do you guys remember what it was like before Prometheus actually came out? There were so many people raving at how " :o AWESOME :o " and " :o EPIC :o " it would be, they bragged about how AVP was not canon now (which is actually still debatable) and they said I was endlessly trying to find loopholes that would save that failing movie franchise by suggesting the themes of Prometheus may be too big and too radical for Alien. They placed all their trust in Ridley Scott, I wonder if they're happy with the results? Anyone know? ???
Quote from: Rong on Oct 31, 2013, 12:32:29 AM
The ties were pretty loose anyhow at least for me.
That's one of the main reasons I wonder why Ridley even bothered - the connections don't actually contribute anything positive to 'Prometheus' *OR* 'Alien', in my opinion.
It almost felt like a... marketing gimmick, sorta.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 12:40:28 AM
Quote from: Rong on Oct 31, 2013, 12:32:29 AM
The ties were pretty loose anyhow at least for me.
That's one of the main reasons I wonder why Ridley even bothered - the connections don't actually contribute anything positive to 'Prometheus' *OR* 'Alien', in my opinion.
It almost felt like a... marketing gimmick, sorta.
My thoughts exactly, either that or he didn't want to fail the fan hype of an Alien Prequel.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 31, 2013, 12:29:50 AM
Prometheus definitely had some interesting ideas on that angle, but I just don't see why Ridley had to throw Alien into that mess; ...
Ehh...
I'm not sure how interesting or how many real ideas prom actually had,
but I'd have to agree that it should have at least stood or failed on its own merits without glomming onto Alien.
I would have preferred that by far.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 12:40:28 AMa... marketing gimmick...
Do you guys think Scott learned his lesson the first time and will put more Alien references into the rest of the Prometheus films? I'm not saying I'll ever like them, but if we're stuck with them then we might as well make the best of it, more Alien references (actual connections would be better) would definitely help in my opinion.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 12:40:28 AM
Quote from: Rong on Oct 31, 2013, 12:32:29 AM
The ties were pretty loose anyhow at least for me.
That's one of the main reasons I wonder why Ridley even bothered - the connections don't actually contribute anything positive to 'Prometheus' *OR* 'Alien', in my opinion.
It almost felt like a... marketing gimmick, sorta.
In the world of Prequels and sequels it was probably the best way to get money out of the studio.
The film was no were near as bad as the avp entries, better than resurrection, and on par with Alien 3 especially in terms of pure fan backlash anyhow.
Just like alien 3 it will be eventually appreciated on its own terms. its by no means a terrible movie, i have my issues with it. but alot of them are pretty superficial.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 31, 2013, 12:51:52 AM
Do you guys think Scott learned his lesson the first time and will put more Alien references into the rest of the Prometheus films?
Ridley was a commercial director.
He went through an auteur period during the auteur period of movies.
But after that died he went back to what he always was.
He'll put Alien references into it if they will sell,
which they will,
without any artistic concern.
Ridley didn't write Alien.
My theory is he didn't even know it was a good script without O'Bannon hounding him.
He was a gun for hire for that one.
Quote from: Rong on Oct 31, 2013, 12:55:35 AM
In the world of Prequels and sequels it was probably the best way to get money out of the studio.
The film was no were near as bad as the avp entries, better than resurrection, and on par with Alien 3 especially in terms of pure fan backlash anyhow.
Actually, I prefer the AVP films to Prometheus; as bad as people say they are, at least they had the decency to try to be what they were; films that depicted legendary creatures going at each other. They didn't try to get false marketing hype, deliberately destroy continuity, or try sell a theme that did not belong to the Alien, Predator, or AVP universes.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 31, 2013, 12:51:52 AM
Do you guys think Scott learned his lesson the first time and will put more Alien references into the rest of the Prometheus films? I'm not saying I'll ever like them, but if we're stuck with them then we might as well make the best of it, more Alien references (actual connections would be better) would definitely help in my opinion.
If anything I'm expecting him to put *less* references, and I'd almost prefer that. He's established the start of his story and got people "hooked", now he can do what he wants without saddling with Alien stuff.
As for comparing Prometheus to the AvP movies.... I absolutely think Prometheus is the better film from a technical filmmaking perspective, but I have more fun watching the AvP movies.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 01:01:39 AM
If anything I'm expecting him to put *less* references, and I'd almost prefer that. He's established the start of his story and got people "hooked", now he can do what he wants without saddling with Alien stuff.
Your assuming he has any awareness of narrative.
Maybe you're right.
...damn, Cvalda was right. This is leaning towards development Hell. :P
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 01:03:26 AM
Your assuming he has any awareness of narrative.
What do you mean?
What makes you think he doesn't? I'm genuinely curious.
Quote from: Aspie on Oct 31, 2013, 01:05:24 AM
...damn, Cvalda was right. This is leaning towards development Hell. :P
Stop saying that filthy name.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 01:01:39 AM
As for comparing Prometheus to the AvP movies.... I absolutely think Prometheus is the better film from a technical filmmaking perspective, but I have more fun watching the AvP movies.
I can agree with that.
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 01:03:26 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 01:01:39 AM
If anything I'm expecting him to put *less* references, and I'd almost prefer that. He's established the start of his story and got people "hooked", now he can do what he wants without saddling with Alien stuff.
Your assuming he has any awareness of narrative.
Maybe you're right.
On the topic of Ridley Scott and his storytelling, this is my rendition of how Ridley Scott treated his franchise regarding film continuity:
QuoteLet's say hypothetically that the leader of a Religion A community (Ridley Scott) had a son (Alien) and wanted him to be raised Religion A. He then decided that he wanted make an influence elsewhere (Blade Runner, etc.) and decided to leave his son with a babysitter who happened to be Religion B (Paul Anderson and the Strause Brothers). The Religion B babysitter is a good person, even though people in the Religion A community (the fanbase) don't understand him so he tries to teach the Religion A leader's son things of Religion B heritage. The leader aka Ridley Scott comes back and sees what the Religion B babysitter has done to his son (AVP films) and is furious, he ejects the babysitter from his house and then proceeds to try to teach his teenage son (now the Alien franchise) Religion A values again. However, instead of sitting down and explaining to his son the merits and differences between Religion A and Religion B beliefs, he simply tells the boy, "Don't listen to a single word of that babysitter," then acts as if everything is normal once again.
What with all the talk of people's individual interpretations of what is or is not "canon", I get reminded of various religious debates over which beliefs should be followed in comparison to others. In essence, Ridley Scott abandoned the Alien franchise when he chose not to make sequels to it; instead, he left it in what he believed to be very capable hands at Fox who then proceeded to give it to various directors who had their own unique visions for the series. When Ridley Scott came back, he didn't even acknowledge the existence of the other movies (specifically the AVP movies) and went on as if they never existed.
While I may be overhumanizing the Alien franchise by comparing it to a human being, I believe my point still stands; when you add a new entry into a well known series, you MUST abide by every entry into the story; you cannot pick and choose which additions you want to add in while ignoring the others. In this example, instead of directly addressing the issue of continuity confusion (like a good parent would have done) and explaining (retconning) things into a single canon, the leader just looks the other way and pretends nothing has happened at all while building on his son's knowledge base; a flat out expression of DENIAL and blatant ignorance.
To me, this is a very great offense to any movie producer; though the public may not like or even appreciate their efforts, every director strives to make the movie of his dreams (this carries MUCH additional weight if the movie is part of a very popular series). However, by blatantly ignoring not one, but a multiple of these works without addressing any continuity issues (that could even have been resolved very simply in interviews, if not in the actual movie), Ridley Scott is effectively stating that he thinks he is ABOVE these other directors and that their works are effectively WORTHLESS. It doesn't matter if those works were good or bad, it is a principle of professional courtesy that you at least acknowledge (if you can't show appreciation or respect) those who have worked so hard to try to make an addition to your famous legacy. I don't care if he started the series, I wouldn't trust Ridley Scott to continue it because of this among other things.
Fox always owned the rights to the franchise not Ridley it's a very crude analogy, dat PX
I'm not completely sure what you mean (I don't get at how that conflicts with what I just said), but the basic gist is this: Fox decides what's canon or not, NOT Ridley Scott. Scott saw what he didn't like in the series and he flat out ignored it while creating a new story that creates continuity problems big enough to stand out but subtle enough to sneak past Fox's noses.
He didn't leave it in Fox's hands. It was always in Fox's hands via Brandywine. It was effectively in Giler and Hill's hands creatively. Riddles was a hired hand.
With Prometheus, he as director - a director with enough clout to not be bossed around by Fox - can pick and choose what he wants for the story and isn't beholden to other installments. Especially tangential ones like AvP. He referenced Aliens - while kinda creating some continuity errors there too, but what are you going to do?
You'd be a tad naive if you thought those problems 'snuck past Fox's nose'. They've never cared as to what continuity problems come up with new material for 25 years - why start now? Especially with a big expensive film and one of the key people involved in the franchises initial success back on board.
QuoteHe didn't leave it in Fox's hands. It was always in Fox's hands via Brandywine. It was effectively in Giler and Hill's hands creatively. Riddles was a hired hand.
Fair enough, but it's a rather moot point anyway.
QuoteWith Prometheus, he as director - a director with enough clout to not be bossed around by Fox - can pick and choose what he wants for the story and isn't beholden to other installments. Especially tangential ones like AvP. He referenced Aliens - while kinda creating some continuity errors there too, but what are you going to do?
Ridley Scott may not be beholden to the AVP films, but any film he makes in the series effectively is. It doesn't matter how much clout Scott has, it does NOT give him the right to add unicorns or Barbie dolls to the story if it doesn't line up with previously established continuity. Also, I think people are giving him too much credit; it appears that all films by major directors are now directed at the general audience rather than the hardcore fans of each genre, like they're supposed to be.
I learned the lesson the hard way with James Cameron's Avatar, much of the attention seems focused on enhancing the special effects and creating a pretty environment for an alien planet rather than on actual plot. The main character, James Sully, was also an idiot (stated implicitly by his behavior and actions, and stated explicitly by various characters); which was hardly someone a fan of diehard sci-fi could related to. In my experience, fans like someone they can relate to while James Sully seemed like someone designed to appeal to the casual audience. After Avatar, I learned what I needed to know and then predicted that Prometheus wouldn't live up to the hype of being a true Alien prequel, which is essentially true however you cast the die since it's more involved in telling its own story rather than keeping in line with any sort of continuity that should be maintained when taking a step into an already established franchise.
No one cares about film integrity anymore, just look at the Star Wars films; George Lucas himself wanted to stop at the 2 trilogies but Disney is forcing him to make a 3rd and it doesn't just stop there, I hear Star Wars is going to become the new Avengers series for Disney with a new film coming out each year. The Avengers films were great to watch by themselves but I hardly see them as anything that really makes a dent in moviemaking history that the first 2 Star Wars trilogies did. This new Star Wars trilogy and its standalone movies are going to be fun (nah, most likely they'll suck, we'll be REALLY lucky if they prove the exception to the rule), but in the end I doubt it'll compare to the original classics (though that might not say much to begin with regarding all the hate aimed at the prequel trilogy).
QuoteYou'd be a tad naive if you thought those problems 'snuck past Fox's nose'. They've never cared as to what continuity problems come up with new material for 25 years - why start now? Especially with a big expensive film and one of the key people involved in the franchises initial success back on board.
You make a point there... unfortunately.
QuoteHe referenced Aliens - while kinda creating some continuity errors there too
Could you elaborate on this?
^I'm actually wondering about this as well.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 31, 2013, 02:12:16 AM
No one cares about film integrity anymore, just look at the Star Wars films; George Lucas himself wanted to stop at the 2 trilogies but Disney is forcing him to make a 3rd and it doesn't just stop there, I hear Star Wars is going to become the new Avengers series for Disney with a new film coming out each year. The Avengers films were great to watch by themselves but I hardly see them as anything that really makes a dent in moviemaking history that the first 2 Star Wars trilogies did. This new Star Wars trilogy and its standalone movies are going to be fun (nah, most likely they'll suck, we'll be REALLY lucky if they prove the exception to the rule), but in the end I doubt it'll compare to the original classics (though that might not say much to begin with regarding all the hate aimed at the prequel trilogy).
Are you for f**king real?
hahahah
the bloke sold the rights and he already had them planned before the sale
QuoteIt doesn't matter how much clout Scott has, it does NOT give him the right to add unicorns or Barbie dolls to the story if it doesn't line up with previously established continuity.
Um, yes it does. What makes you think otherwise?
QuoteAlso, I think people are giving him too much credit; it appears that all films by major directors are now directed at the general audience rather than the hardcore fans of each genre, like they're supposed to be.
You can't be that naive, surely?
QuoteNo one cares about film integrity anymore, just look at the Star Wars films; George Lucas himself wanted to stop at the 2 trilogies but Disney is forcing him to make a 3rd and it doesn't just stop there, I hear Star Wars is going to become the new Avengers series for Disney with a new film coming out each year. The Avengers films were great to watch by themselves but I hardly see them as anything that really makes a dent in moviemaking history that the first 2 Star Wars trilogies did. This new Star Wars trilogy and its standalone movies are going to be fun (nah, most likely they'll suck, we'll be REALLY lucky if they prove the exception to the rule), but in the end I doubt it'll compare to the original classics (though that might not say much to begin with regarding all the hate aimed at the prequel trilogy).
Or maybe you are...
Disney is forcing Lucas to do anything. They own Star Wars and it cost them a lot of money and they want a return on their investment. Lucas doesn't have much to do with them now.
Quote from: Rong on Oct 31, 2013, 02:37:20 AM
Are you for f**king real?
hahahah
the bloke sold the rights and he already had them planned before the sale
Hmm, first time I'm hearing about this, then again I've been way behind on Star Wars stuff. Last I heard, he said he was content with two trilogies and that's why he wasn't making a third.
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 02:41:35 AM
QuoteIt doesn't matter how much clout Scott has, it does NOT give him the right to add unicorns or Barbie dolls to the story if it doesn't line up with previously established continuity.
Um, yes it does. What makes you think otherwise?
Ok, let's put away the Star Wars stuff and keep things focused on Prometheus for now. Ridley Scott started the series for sure, but I hardly think that gives him permission to do whatever he wants with it; I'm sure you're not suggesting he has the right to say... derail the entire franchise on purpose just for shit and giggles?
I think from ridleys perspective he gives 2 shits for the other films, only the ones he makes, and he has a healthy dose of respect for 'Aliens" and for good reason.
If the others get in the way of the story he wants to tell, he has all the rights to disregard the other films in my opinion, no point getting ocd over what is essentially a piece of fiction.
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 02:41:35 AM
QuoteIt doesn't matter how much clout Scott has, it does NOT give him the right to add unicorns or Barbie dolls to the story if it doesn't line up with previously established continuity.
Um, yes it does. What makes you think otherwise?
I love ya SM but you need to expand the one liners.
:)
I agree, Cameron broke the continuity cherry when he added the queen and cocooning became just glue instead of eggs.
Quote from: Rong on Oct 31, 2013, 02:47:23 AM
I think from ridleys perspective he gives 2 shits for the other films, only the ones he makes, and he has a healthy dose of respect for 'Aliens" and for good reason.
If the others get in the way of the story he wants to tell, he has all the rights to disregard the other films in my opinion, no point getting ocd over what is essentially a piece of fiction.
I guess this is the greatest truth I need to accept, perhaps what ALL fans need to accept as I'm not the only one obsessing over these technical details. It's just so infuriating when someone just goes off and breaks continuity, I feel that Ridley Scott did to the Alien franchise what many people feel Gearbox did to Aliens: Colonial Marines.
Quote from: Rong on Oct 31, 2013, 02:47:23 AM..., no point getting ocd over what is essentially a piece of fiction.
Interesting.
Would we be discussing this without OCD over a piece of fiction?
QuoteOk, let's put away the Star Wars stuff and keep things focused on Prometheus for now. Ridley Scott started the series for sure, but I hardly think that gives him permission to do whatever he wants with it; I'm sure you're not suggesting he has the right to say... derail the entire franchise on purpose just for shit and giggles?
Fox pays him enough to not derail the entire franchise just for shits and giggles. He has final cut, but if Fox starts seeing footage of Shaw fighting a mutant My Little Pony, of course they're going to step in. That's not going to happen though. And didn't.
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 03:00:10 AM
Quote from: Rong on Oct 31, 2013, 02:47:23 AM..., no point getting ocd over what is essentially a piece of fiction.
Interesting.
Would we be discussing this without OCD over a piece of fiction?
What do you mean?
Rong is right, by the way.
(god it felt weird typing that sentence :P )
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 03:06:33 AM
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 03:00:10 AM
Quote from: Rong on Oct 31, 2013, 02:47:23 AM..., no point getting ocd over what is essentially a piece of fiction.
Interesting.
Would we be discussing this without OCD over a piece of fiction?
What do you mean?
Rong is right, by the way.
(god it felt weird typing that sentence :P )
I'm not sure how I could be more obvious?
There wouldn't be franchises and websites and discussions focused on fictional worlds without "OCD" about it?
(Explaining things seems even more obtuse.)
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 03:05:28 AM
QuoteOk, let's put away the Star Wars stuff and keep things focused on Prometheus for now. Ridley Scott started the series for sure, but I hardly think that gives him permission to do whatever he wants with it; I'm sure you're not suggesting he has the right to say... derail the entire franchise on purpose just for shit and giggles?
Fox pays him enough to not derail the entire franchise just for shits and giggles. He has final cut, but if Fox starts seeing footage of Shaw fighting a mutant My Little Pony, of course they're going to step in. That's not going to happen though. And didn't.
I realize I have rather... radical beliefs, all I ask is for people to respect yet not understand these beliefs the same way I respect yet not understand how AVPR is supposedly the worse film in the franchise and how A:CM somehow destroys all continuity with Hicks' forced, yet canon, revival.
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 03:09:39 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 03:06:33 AM
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 03:00:10 AM
Quote from: Rong on Oct 31, 2013, 02:47:23 AM..., no point getting ocd over what is essentially a piece of fiction.
Interesting.
Would we be discussing this without OCD over a piece of fiction?
What do you mean?
Rong is right, by the way.
(god it felt weird typing that sentence :P )
I'm not sure how I could be more obvious?
There wouldn't be franchises and websites and discussions focused on fictional worlds without "OCD" about it?
(Explaining things seems even more obtuse.)
They are called fan sites not bitch out sites
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 03:09:39 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 03:06:33 AM
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 03:00:10 AM
Quote from: Rong on Oct 31, 2013, 02:47:23 AM..., no point getting ocd over what is essentially a piece of fiction.
Interesting.
Would we be discussing this without OCD over a piece of fiction?
What do you mean?
Rong is right, by the way.
(god it felt weird typing that sentence :P )
I'm not sure how I could be more obvious?
There wouldn't be franchises and websites and discussions focused on fictional worlds without "OCD" about it?
(Explaining things seems even more obtuse.)
I see what you mean now.
I guess people's threshold of "OCD" varies from person to person. There's a ton of minutiae I see discussed on this forum that makes me say "wow, who gives a shit, seriously", but instead I just don't get involved in those discussions and let people talk about what they want to talk about.
Seems sensible to me.
Quote from: Rong link=topic=49329.msg1800692#msg1800692
They are called fan sites not bitch out sites
/quote]
I dont get it?
How do you mean?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 03:12:40 AM
I guess people's threshold of "OCD" varies from person to person. There's a ton of minutiae I see discussed on this forum that makes me say "wow, who gives a shit, seriously", ...
But there wouldn't be fan sites without obsessive interest.
Its almost the definition.
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 03:05:28 AM
Fox pays him enough to not derail the entire franchise just for shits and giggles.
The last thing modern ridley would be interested in is derailing a franchise!
Quote
I realize I have rather... radical beliefs, all I ask is for people to respect yet not understand these beliefs the same way I respect yet not understand how AVPR is supposedly the worse film in the franchise and how A:CM somehow destroys all continuity with Hicks' forced, yet canon, revival.
Some things - in this case A:CM - don't deserve any respect.
And I think by any measure, AvPR
is the worst...
@ the bloke who was talking about disney and star wars, that been toast for 13 years.
And Ridley,
ironically the same way he made Alien in Star Wars' wake,
is gonna do the same thing if they enable him.
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 03:24:31 AM
Quote
I realize I have rather... radical beliefs, all I ask is for people to respect yet not understand these beliefs the same way I respect yet not understand how AVPR is supposedly the worse film in the franchise and how A:CM somehow destroys all continuity with Hicks' forced, yet canon, revival.
I dont get it?
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 03:24:31 AM
Quote
I realize I have rather... radical beliefs, all I ask is for people to respect yet not understand these beliefs the same way I respect yet not understand how AVPR is supposedly the worse film in the franchise and how A:CM somehow destroys all continuity with Hicks' forced, yet canon, revival.
Some things - in this case A:CM - don't deserve any respect.
And I think by any measure, AvPR is the worst...
I'm talking about my views, one step at a time, soldier. ;)
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 03:28:07 AM
@ the bloke who was talking about disney and star wars, that been toast for 13 years.
That's me, and I'm sorry but you'll have to rephrase your sentence a bit better because I don't quite understand it. I take it English isn't your first language?
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 03:28:07 AM
Quote
I realize I have rather... radical beliefs, all I ask is for people to respect yet not understand these beliefs the same way I respect yet not understand how AVPR is supposedly the worse film in the franchise and how A:CM somehow destroys all continuity with Hicks' forced, yet canon, revival.
I dont get it?
You're new here so you don't know much about me, but I have... unique tastes in film. Personally, AVPR is my 3rd favorite film in the franchise, second to Aliens and Predators respectively. Also, while I detest the single-player aspect of the main campaign for Aliens: Colonial Marines, I don't really see any continuity problems inherent in it that can't eventually be explained away, same goes for the AVP films. Very few people would publicly state that they share this opinion.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 31, 2013, 03:37:57 AMVery few people would publicly state that they share this opinion.
Isn't that a fancy way of saying, 'no one agrees with me, but I want to make it look like they do'?
I prefer to be impartial in my arguments and it is an astronomical impossibility that I'm the only person who likes AVPR and certain aspects of A:CM (though I admit I am in the minority here), but as I'm sure you're all aware very few people would be capable of facing this amount of persecution for one's views.
Well, I am ready and willing to be 'persecuted' for my dislike of AvPR! :)
Don't flatter yourself, you're in the ingroup here, it's only the outgroups that matter. ;)
To be honest it would be weird with your username to hate avp.
Lol, that would create a conflict of interest. I'm a criminal justice major so that's funny for me. :D
Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 30, 2013, 07:41:23 AM
Anyone who seriously thinks that AVP is, in any way, 'better' or has more technical merit that Prometheus needs a lesson in filmmaking and art appreciation... Promtheus' deleted scenes have more technical merit than AVP :/
I did not say any AVP film is better than Prometheus.
I said, and i repeat, i would rather hear news of a new AVP movie being made that still took place in the present than news about a new Prometheus movie.
In my post there wasnt any discussion about the existing films.
@ predxeno,
are you being unique?
Or just being weird?
Should I take you like AVP seriously?
Some people do.
And in that case you do have an argument!
Horrible taste?
But an argument.
There are people that like the prometheus, and the star wars sequels.
It seems strange to me, but its fair.
There are.
Lets everybody hold hands and heal PredXeno!
Heal...
HEAL....
Xenopred,
there are people who care about you!
Nobody has a right to force you to like aliens verses predator!
Well the whole crew is gone only Shaw and David remain and maybe Vickers,
so if they focus only on Shaw and David, then he must come up with a very good story to keep everybody exited.
Quote from: Infected on Oct 31, 2013, 01:36:18 PM
Well the whole crew is gone only Shaw and David remain and maybe Vickers,
so if they focus only on Shaw and David...
Nah, they'll send the Colonial Marines...Gearbox version :o
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 07:48:38 AM
@ predxeno,
are you being unique?
Or just being weird?
Should I take you like AVP seriously?
Some people do.
And in that case you do have an argument!
Horrible taste?
But an argument.
There are people that like the prometheus, and the star wars sequels.
It seems strange to me, but its fair.
There are.
Lets everybody hold hands and heal PredXeno!
Heal...
HEAL....
Weird and unique are interchangeable here, and I never really like the 1st AVP FILM, just the 2nd.
Quote from: Guts on Oct 30, 2013, 12:12:33 AM
Who are they? It's Ridley Scott who made the franchise to begin with. So if the franchise crashes and burns, then thank him. After all he started it, so he should end it.
He was only one oar in the water. The film's ultimate creative success was due to a whole
lot of people. Saying that Scott was solely responsible for it is like saying Giger was.
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 30, 2013, 01:10:10 AM
The funny part is that a quick look at IMDB says that that script has been re-written by no less then 3 people at this point.
That's what happens in Hollywood. Doesn't reflect on the original's quality. In many case, rewrites can actually make a product worse and even nonsensical.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 12:26:39 AM
The idea itself might not be all that novel or clever ("Chariots of the Gods" has been around for ages, etc), but it's the execution of that idea that matters.
Exactly - and a big part of the reason why I was so disappointed with '
Prometheus'. Didn't hate it. Just felt very apathetic about the end result. There was a
huge amount of very profound material which someone who's a master of the visual medium could have concocted something truly great from. Ultimately, there was a great deal of squandered potential and what we
did get often seemed unrealistic (especially the scientists' behaviour).
All of which were only made worse by it being a prequel to '
Alien', since that was a milestone in cinema which shifted the science-fiction focus very much from stereotypes with ray guns to ordinary people whose motivations and thought processes were relateable to the audience.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 31, 2013, 01:31:43 AM
When Ridley Scott came back, he didn't even acknowledge the existence of the other movies (specifically the AVP movies) and went on as if they never existed.
That's because, as he later admitted, he's never bothered to watch them and his perspective is coloured
purely by others telling him they were terrible.
If he had, I suspect a good number of plot elements would have been changed, due to their obvious similarity to the first film's... Which, amusingly, managed to pull of the ancient astronauts thing in a more effective way.
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 02:51:38 AM
I agree, Cameron broke the continuity cherry when he added the queen and cocooning became just glue instead of eggs.
Nothing forced him to keep within deleted scenes - especially since very few people were even aware of them, let alone had access to view them, back then. These are different times.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 31, 2013, 04:16:44 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 31, 2013, 01:31:43 AM
When Ridley Scott came back, he didn't even acknowledge the existence of the other movies (specifically the AVP movies) and went on as if they never existed.
That's because, as he later admitted, he's never bothered to watch them and his perspective is coloured purely by others telling him they were terrible.
If he had, I suspect a good number of plot elements would have been changed, due to their obvious similarity to the first film's... Which, amusingly, managed to pull of the ancient astronauts thing in a more effective way.
Blatantly ignoring films in your own franchise and not even bothering to watch them is a grievous insult to viewers who try to keep up with continuity.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 31, 2013, 04:20:34 PM
Blatantly ignoring films in your own franchise and not even bothering to watch them is a grievous insult to viewers who try to keep up with continuity.
Hey, I'm not defending it. I think it was a mistake, if only because, as I say, there were several key plot elements which were a bit too similar.
It's his prerogative, though.
As someone who's in the process of making a motion-comic fan-film, I'm under no illusions. A lot of other people might think what I come up with is crap. I have made a point of rewatching all the films, though, not because I massively like every single one, but because all of them, even '
Requiem' (which greatly underwhelmed me), still have lessons worth learning - even if it's a case of examining a scene to see how it could have been improved.
In fact, case in point, I remember saying at the time that if the brothers had watched the fourth film in preparation, that scene where Ripley 8 shows off in the basketball court would have been an excellent primer for even a genetic
fraction of the kind of reflexes, resilience and strength which Aliens are meant to possess. If you put your Aliens up against a hypothetical Ripley 8 and can see her beating them, then you're not portraying the things right.
It's like bad fan-fiction: Forcing yourself to read a few examples of it can
really help you to combat writers' block, because it causes you to instantly reawaken your own creativity.
I wasn't accusing you, but either way you make an excellent point.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 31, 2013, 04:16:44 PM
Quote from: RobThom on Oct 31, 2013, 02:51:38 AM
I agree, Cameron broke the continuity cherry when he added the queen and cocooning became just glue instead of eggs.
Nothing forced him to keep within deleted scenes - especially since very few people were even aware of them, let alone had access to view them, back then. These are different times.
Not sure I'd go along with that. The cocoon scene in A L I E N was one of the most famous deleted scenes in cinema history after the spider/chasm scene in the original King Kong. And A L I E N was a successful novelistaion before the film hit the cinemas, with a number of key scenes intact that weren't in the film.
As for other posters points about a lack of respect for the franchise I've always felt that Ridley steered a clever course in alluding to things that lead to A L I E N, without ever needing to touch on the where the sequels went. They became one route for the genetic experimentation - nothing in Prometheus destroys continuity, and as not enough is known about the Engineers there's nothing to say it even retcons the original Space Jockey if the idea bugs you.
The coccoon scene wasn't famous back in 1986. The hardcore fans who bought the movie magazine or Book of Alien would be aware of it, and some who'd read the novelisation might remember it from seven years earlier. But the overwhelming majority of people going to watch Aliens wouldn't have known.
I'd agree that the vast majority of the movie going audience wouldn't have known, but The Book of ALIEN, Giger's ALIEN and the novelisation certainly made it a very famous missing scene long before Aliens came out, and it's reinvention as nothing more than 'glue' in 86 was certainly very obvious to many fans of A L I E N. Ok, maybe 7 years was long enough to dismiss a scene that couldn't be considered canon by its exclusion, on the other hand the watered down reinvention of cocooning and the queen personally bothered me far more for it's messing with the themes of body horror as established in 79 than Engineers being Space Jockeys did in 2012.
It's personal opinion only of course, but I'd hardly say Prometheus messes with continuity more than Aliens did. The vitriol aimed at Scott for his apparent disregard for franchise continuity bewilders me. Aliens deliberately plays down themes that Cameron wasn't interested in and highlights Vietnam analogies and mother/child issues - against a backdrop that pays homage to a limited level of the imagery of A L I E N. For many, the majority, that's enough, for me it felt lacking.
Likewise you could easily accuse Fincher of disrespecting Cameron's themes by nullifying practically everything that happened in Aliens, and go on to accuse either Jeunet or Whedon of wholly disrespecting the tone of the 'franchise.'
And where's any respect in continuity with AVP or AvP:R? There is none. It was the most cynical cash in, and with AvP:R one of the most poorly scripted and shot films I've had to misfortune to catch on TV. Sharknado on SyFy is a more competent load of old shite than AvP:R.
With Prometheus, yes it has a handful of minor flaws - all of which a little more editing time would have fixed, but I see no disrespect from Scott in finding a way back in to the story and opening up the plot to wider themes. If anything he's managed to re-estblish the body horror, including the original fate of Dallas without saying 'oh screw the other films, this is the way it should be.' No, he's let those films live within their own continuity but gone back to look at the warring species that used the alien in the first place.
Honestly I find Prometheus a lot more palatable than any other companion piece to A L I E N.
I'd rather a great film that took liberties than a mediocre one which tries to repeat the previous films.
Quote from: Infected on Oct 31, 2013, 01:36:18 PM
Well the whole crew is gone only Shaw and David remain and maybe Vickers,
so if they focus only on Shaw and David, then he must come up with a very good story to keep everybody exited.
You realize Vickers was crushed by a giant spaceship, right?
VIKKARS IS A RoBOOBOPPP MANG
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Nov 01, 2013, 04:30:26 AM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 31, 2013, 01:36:18 PM
Well the whole crew is gone only Shaw and David remain and maybe Vickers,
so if they focus only on Shaw and David, then he must come up with a very good story to keep everybody exited.
You realize Vickers was crushed by a giant spaceship, right?
I think he's trying to imply that since we didn't see Vickers actually get crushed on screen, there's a chance she might be alive. Personally I doubt it, but Hicks came back, didn't he?
Quote from: predxeno on Nov 01, 2013, 05:29:48 AM
there's a chance she might be alive. Personally I doubt it, but Hicks came back, didn't he?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg855.imageshack.us%2Fimg855%2F5984%2F3d8a.jpg&hash=5a6be0f411ba9fc143552e3c6679b3cbf780486c)
Apart from that whole getting impaled thing...
I don't get the whole 'Vickers might've have survived' thing.
Did people really want to see the bloody smear she left behind? Is not the crunching and abrupt cut off scream not enough?
Quote from: predxeno on Nov 01, 2013, 05:29:48 AM
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Nov 01, 2013, 04:30:26 AM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 31, 2013, 01:36:18 PM
Well the whole crew is gone only Shaw and David remain and maybe Vickers,
so if they focus only on Shaw and David, then he must come up with a very good story to keep everybody exited.
You realize Vickers was crushed by a giant spaceship, right?
I think he's trying to imply that since we didn't see Vickers actually get crushed on screen, there's a chance she might be alive. Personally I doubt it, but Hicks came back, didn't he?
Only took one of the most hilariously, unimaginably terrible played-straight scenes in history to do that.
Quote from: Rong on Nov 01, 2013, 04:40:30 AM
VIKKARS IS A RoBOOBOPPP MANG
Charlize Robop
Quote from: SM on Nov 01, 2013, 05:43:45 AM
Apart from that whole getting impaled thing...
I don't get the whole 'Vickers might've have survived' thing.
Did people really want to see the bloody smear she left behind? Is not the crunching and abrupt cut off scream not enough?
Didnt see the blood no, but i was saying it because it was just such a simplistic stupid death scene.
But you never know maybe she was an android cos Janek doesnt say it for nothing and we never get the answer only the "my quarters" scene.
but nevertheless if the second Prometheus will only revolve around Shaw and David they have to come up with some good sheit.
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Nov 01, 2013, 05:55:36 AM
Quote from: Rong on Nov 01, 2013, 04:40:30 AM
VIKKARS IS A RoBOOBOPPP MANG
Charlize Robop
You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you?
Her woeful dialogue is matched only by her terrible delivery.
QuoteDidnt see the blood no, but i was saying it because it was just such a simplistic stupid death scene.
But you never know maybe she was an android cos Janek doesnt say it for nothing and we never get the answer only the "my quarters" scene.
:laugh:
Weyland also had a simplistic death - HE IZ ROBOTZ 2??
Quote from: SM on Nov 01, 2013, 09:29:13 PM
QuoteDidnt see the blood no, but i was saying it because it was just such a simplistic stupid death scene.
But you never know maybe she was an android cos Janek doesnt say it for nothing and we never get the answer only the "my quarters" scene.
:laugh:
Weyland also had a simplistic death - HE IZ ROBOTZ 2??
With the leg parts he was kinda cyborg so in a matter of way he was a robot :p
So people with wheelchairz IZ ROBOTZ 2??!!11
Dave Ross.
Quote from: Gash on Nov 01, 2013, 12:12:40 AM
I'd agree that the vast majority of the movie going audience wouldn't have known, but The Book of ALIEN, Giger's ALIEN and the novelisation certainly made it a very famous missing scene long before Aliens came out
To a minority of the audience - all of whom understood it was just that: Deleted.
Quoteand it's reinvention as nothing more than 'glue' in 86 was certainly very obvious to many fans of A L I E N.
It was nothing more than glue in the original scene, too. ;)
The only difference was in why the victims were being cocooned in the first place and it's completely acceptable to have egging as a way to produce a Queen-laying facehugger. We just haven't seen it, unfortunately.
Quote from: Infected on Nov 01, 2013, 10:39:58 AM
But you never know maybe she was an android cos Janek doesnt say it for nothing and we never get the answer only the "my quarters" scene.
Dare I say it, but David 8, Ash, Bishop and even Call wouldn't have done much better, either.
Quote from: Infected on Nov 01, 2013, 10:39:58 AMBut you never know maybe she was an android cos Janek doesnt say it for nothing
I'm pretty sure he says it because the writer thought it would be a funny line, considering that the character was deliberately written and acted to be ambiguous.
Quote from: Gash on Nov 01, 2013, 12:12:40 AM
Quoteand it's reinvention as nothing more than 'glue' in 86 was certainly very obvious to many fans of A L I E N.
It was nothing more than glue in the original scene, too. ;)
The only difference was in why the victims were being cocooned in the first place and it's completely acceptable to have egging as a way to produce a Queen-laying facehugger. We just haven't seen it, unfortunately.
I think there is a major difference in the Dallas scene and the colonists scene in the way the secretion works. In A L I E N the cocoon is an insidious growth that is invading Dallas, basically eating him up as nourishment for an embryonic facehugger. Left to his fate he'll be consumed. It is why it is so horrifying that he is there with Brett's body, seeing what will happen to him.
In Aliens it really
is just glue, holding colonists in place whilst facehugger eggs are placed before them. It's just not as horrifying an idea. All I remember thinking in 86 was that the whole concept had been misinterpreted. Obviously it was done for convenience to play the false hand of 'losing' Newt but being able to save her, but it was one of those re-invented conveniences that irritated me.
I don't think there was anything to say that the cocooning material, itself, was doing that. In fact, I think that in one version of that deleted scene (or at least, an early script draft), she asks Dallas what the Alien, itself, has done, which provokes some kind of emotional reaction from him, inferring he underwent some kind of violating invasion. And in the novelisation, based on the script, Alan Dean Foster writes of Ripley's thoughts going back to a comment Ash makes, in regards to parasitical wasps impregnating spiders (which I'd imagine would have been based on notes which were passed to him when he was writing the novel).
So, I don't think there was ever even behind-the-scenes intention of implying the cocoon material was doing anything but holding Dallas and Brett in place. It was something the Alien did which was meant to have begun the mutation process.
Also, in concept art, Giger (and, I think, O'Bannon) has the nest material more along the lines of silk, with Dallas and Brett undergoing the change into eggs, which further implies that it wasn't the material which was causing it. Later on, its general appearance changed to look more like what we know of today.
Is it just me or does anyone else think Scott looks like he's just crawled out of the nearest boozer before that interview....??? ;D
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 02, 2013, 11:42:27 PM
I don't think there was anything to say that the cocooning material, itself, was doing that. In fact, I think that in one version of that deleted scene (or at least, an early script draft), she asks Dallas what the Alien, itself, has done, which provokes some kind of emotional reaction from him, inferring he underwent some kind of violating invasion. And in the novelisation, based on the script, Alan Dean Foster writes of Ripley's thoughts going back to a comment Ash makes, in regards to parasitical wasps impregnating spiders (which I'd imagine would have been based on notes which were passed to him when he was writing the novel).
So, I don't think there was ever even behind-the-scenes intention of implying the cocoon material was doing anything but holding Dallas and Brett in place. It was something the Alien did which was meant to have begun the mutation process.
Also, in concept art, Giger (and, I think, O'Bannon) has the nest material more along the lines of silk, with Dallas and Brett undergoing the change into eggs, which further implies that it wasn't the material which was causing it. Later on, its general appearance changed to look more like what we know of today.
Yep I agree that the Alien did something to them and it's not the hive material that doing that. One cool idea for a new film would be to rescue someone who has just started the progress and hopelessly try to cure them as they mutated into an egg.
Quote from: Xenoscream on Nov 03, 2013, 03:19:51 PMOne cool idea for a new film would be to rescue someone who has just started the progress and hopelessly try to cure them as they mutated into an egg.
That's F'ing freaky! I could get behind that.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 02, 2013, 11:42:27 PM
Also, in concept art, Giger (and, I think, O'Bannon) has the nest material more along the lines of silk, with Dallas and Brett undergoing the change into eggs, which further implies that it wasn't the material which was causing it. Later on, its general appearance changed to look more like what we know of today.
Yep
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jamescamerononline.com%2Fcocoonisn.jpg&hash=b84ca7a4ff6be5305b4ff1392a441cd296a17015)
"You are... a beautiful, beautiful butterfly."
According to Wikipedia the script was done in october 2013 for Prometheus 2 by Jack paglen or something.
As for the deleted scene discussion: if a concept is explored in a deleted scene only, it is not part of the released movie and as such, Cameron had no obligation as a story writer to adhere to the cycles of the alien lifeform visualized in that scene. That's my view anyway.
Quote from: Infected on Nov 01, 2013, 10:39:58 AM
but nevertheless if the second Prometheus will only revolve around Shaw and David they have to come up with some good sheit.
Perfectly fine by me, if they can get the story right.
2001 essentially only had 2 human characters as well for most of the film.
Moon had 1 (or perhaps 2 but I don't wanna spoil the movie for anyone who hasn't seen it).
Quote from: Eva on Nov 07, 2013, 12:09:20 AM
As for the deleted scene discussion: if a concept is explored in a deleted scene only, it is not part of the released movie and as such, Cameron had no obligation as a story writer to adhere to the cycles of the alien lifeform visualized in that scene. That's my view anyway.
Quote from: Infected on Nov 01, 2013, 10:39:58 AM
but nevertheless if the second Prometheus will only revolve around Shaw and David they have to come up with some good sheit.
Perfectly fine by me, if they can get the story right. 2001 essentially only had 2 human characters as well for most of the film. Moon had 1 (or perhaps 2 but I don't wanna spoil the movie for anyone who hasn't seen it).
Fine by me too, but knowing the alien franchise, its all based on build-up-killings, like i said before it would have been much better if there werent any deaths in Prometheus or maybe just one by getting lost or some infection like the Fifield incident but besides that i would love to see some more mystery and build up and explorations, it could be me getting older but im not interested in the killings, like in Alien if you would take away the first act till the xeno bursts out of Hurt to me Alien would not be so interesting,
its the undefined jockey stuff and weird shaped ship that creates and sets the tension to me.
so yeah its possible to make a good story with two characters...
It isn't just going to be about Shaw and David, I'm pretty sure Paradise is going to be full of humans.
Is it possible that somebody can pull a save like Wrath of Kahn?
That isn't the norm.
It hasn't been repeated since then.
But ANYTHING to keep him away from a BR sequel!
(Didn't he abuse the original script enough?!)
Quote from: RobThom on Nov 08, 2013, 12:38:27 AM
Is it possible that somebody can pull a save like Wrath of Kahn?
That isn't the norm.
It hasn't been repeated since then.
But ANYTHING to keep him away from a BR sequel!
(Didn't he abuse the original script enough?!)
I like ST:TMP 10x more than Wrath of Khan (sue me).
That said, I'll agree that Prometheus needs a 'Wrath of Khan' kind of sequel.
But I also think that Blade Runner is cinematic perfection. So, we agree and disagree in equal doses!
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Nov 08, 2013, 01:53:37 AM
But I also think that Blade Runner is cinematic perfection. So, we agree and disagree in equal doses!
I dont disagree with you.
OTHER THEN BR at least.
There were obvious flaws.
Intimately recorded by Sammon.
IMO,
thats where,
in retrospect,
that we can see the career long flaws that we never noticed before begin.
Quote from: RobThom on Nov 08, 2013, 03:08:51 AM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Nov 08, 2013, 01:53:37 AM
But I also think that Blade Runner is cinematic perfection. So, we agree and disagree in equal doses!
I dont disagree with you.
OTHER THEN BR at least.
There were obvious flaws.
Intimately recorded by Sammon.
IMO,
thats where,
in retrospect,
that we can see the career long flaws that we never noticed before begin.
Siddown, yer drunk! :D
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Nov 08, 2013, 03:30:31 AM
Siddown, yer drunk! :D
Did I lie?
I apologize if I did.
Honestly, where can they go with Prom 2? It'll probably turn out hokey Star-Trek-esque no matter what. I like the whole weaponized Alien concept going on in the first film, but I feel it was something that just wasn't focused on enough and it wasn't scary or suspenseful. The idea is there but it's not properly realized.
We need that dark, unknown, Giger, hellish universe presented in the first Alien film to come back.
I liked Prometheus overall as a stand alone film, but it certainly wasn't the movie I was hoping for. I feel like Ridley's lost touch with what made the original Alien so great.
His story and design choices in Prometheus were definitely not ones I wanted. They deviated so much from the original Alien's. I don't understand why he was so adamant about keeping Prometheus from being a full-fledged Alien prequel, and in turn, didn't keep it with Alien's tone and aesthetics. Giger
really needed to be part of it.
The pale humanoids, the less-bio-more-mechanical engineer tech, the brightly lit planet, non-bio-mechanical creatures, no real fear of the unknown, no eerie setting, etc. *sigh*
Quote from: PsyKore on Nov 08, 2013, 08:53:35 AM
Honestly, where can they go with Prom 2? It'll probably turn out hokey Star-Trek-esque no matter what. I like the whole weaponized Alien concept going on in the first film, but I feel it was something that just wasn't focused on enough and it wasn't scary or suspenseful. The idea is there but it's not properly realized.
We need that dark, unknown, Giger, hellish universe presented in the first Alien film to come back.
This.
Quote from: PsyKore on Nov 08, 2013, 08:53:35 AM
Honestly, where can they go with Prom 2?
To be plain and simple.
They could completely disregard lindelofs setup and just do something else without the sj homeworld.
But what?
Noomi and fassbender's head on a road trip?
There's just nothing there.
Nothing from nothing.
They couldn't even really go anywhere from Alien without the most absurd acrobatics and to diminishing returns other then remaking it as rambo.
Thats another disgusting problem with writing a movie as a episode of a TV show instead of as a movie.
Quote from: PsyKore on Nov 08, 2013, 08:53:35 AMWe need that dark, unknown, Giger, hellish universe presented in the first Alien film to come back.
I think you are confusing what you imagined or what you saw in Giger's artwork with what was actually shown in the original film. LV-426 was a nondescript ball of rock out in the boonies, and we saw very little of it or the derelict, let alone any of the 'hellish Giger universe' you refer to.
But I hear you - I too imagined a similar dark and nightmarish Giger world, but the fact is it was never established anywhere other than in fans heads. Scott obviously never saw it that way.
Well, I was just thinking of the Alien creature itself and the Derelict - to me this was presented as something very dark and ultimately hellish. And I say universe because in the film it's really the human universe meeting with the Giger universe, even if it was only a glimpse into it, that's all. I was disappointed Prometheus didn't present the Giger aspect in a similar manner to Alien.
To be honest, I can completely understand why Scott decided not to make Prometheus a straight out Alien prequel. As imperfect as Prometheus is, it is at the very least interesting. I found the notion of more xeno's, chestbursters etc. to be quite uninspiring... and even with a prequel there has to be a sense of 'progression' - either with the themes being explored or the aesthetics of the piece.
What will now be interesting to see is if they move Prometheus 2 closer to the aesthetic of the Alien films or wether they keep with the Engineers being in front and centre. I'd certainly like to see more of the Giger vibe, but I'm still not sure I want to see xenos, facehuggers etc.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Engineers end up being the Darth Maul of the Alien prequel-verse.
Quote from: Darth Vile on Nov 11, 2013, 08:56:16 AMI'd certainly like to see more of the Giger vibe, but I'm still not sure I want to see xenos, facehuggers etc.
My inner fan is kicking me in the kidneys as I write this, but I agree. Adding xenos and huggers back in - even using a more 'Gigerish' aesthetic on the environments - will feel like a bit of a double-take at this point, unless it is done in a really clever and relevant way. As much as I love that stuff I hope
Prometheus sticks to its guns and fleshes out its own world and story, because dog knows it needs some fleshing out. The ball is rolling so they might as well run with it, and who knows, it could become something really good.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Nov 11, 2013, 09:51:35 AM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Nov 11, 2013, 08:56:16 AMI'd certainly like to see more of the Giger vibe, but I'm still not sure I want to see xenos, facehuggers etc.
My inner fan is kicking me in the kidneys as I write this, but I agree. Adding xenos and huggers back in - even using a more 'Gigerish' aesthetic on the environments - will feel like a bit of a double-take at this point, unless it is done in a really clever and relevant way. As much as I love that stuff I hope Prometheus sticks to its guns and fleshes out its own world and story, because dog knows it needs some fleshing out. The ball is rolling so they might as well run with it, and who knows, it could become something really good.
Agreed - let's see some new iconography...
The problem, though, is that Prometheus has already attached itself to Alien from the get-go, so it can't really be its own thing with its own image. It's always going to come back to Alien and people are always not going to like it if it doesn't meet the same visual style and tone - if it doesn't "fit" in the universe.
I don't believe it could become stale if it was the same in style as Alien because a proper story with the Jockies and expanding on the weaponized Aliens and showing their true terror is interesting enough given the right care.
It's just really stupid of Ridley Scott to want to separate away from Alien, but also at the same time still connect it in a parallel manner. It just doesn't work. I dunno, It just would be nice to have some consistency, that's all.
Quote from: PsyKore on Nov 12, 2013, 07:22:37 AM
The problem, though, is that Prometheus has already attached itself to Alien from the get-go, so it can't really be its own thing with its own image. It's always going to come back to Alien and people are always not going to like it if it doesn't meet the same visual style and tone - if it doesn't "fit" in the universe.
I don't believe it could become stale if it was the same in style as Alien because a proper story with the Jockies and expanding on the weaponized Aliens and showing their true terror is interesting enough given the right care.
It's just really stupid of Ridley Scott to want to separate away from Alien, but also at the same time still connect it in a parallel manner. It just doesn't work. I dunno, It just would be nice to have some consistency, that's all.
I can see your point... but for me it's like Star Wars e.g. there can be stories that can fit perfectly fine within that universe that don't need to contain Jedi, Yoda, Imperials etc. The focus of Prometheus, with or without xenos, always seemed to be more about the Engineers and the culture that would/could use biological weaponry. Whilst Prometheus, as a film, wasn't in the same league as Alien and Aliens... the underlying narrative/conceit is one worthy of further exploration - more so than aliens in air vents etc. etc. IMHO.
Quote from: Darth Vile on Nov 12, 2013, 10:12:20 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Nov 12, 2013, 07:22:37 AM
The problem, though, is that Prometheus has already attached itself to Alien from the get-go, so it can't really be its own thing with its own image. It's always going to come back to Alien and people are always not going to like it if it doesn't meet the same visual style and tone - if it doesn't "fit" in the universe.
I don't believe it could become stale if it was the same in style as Alien because a proper story with the Jockies and expanding on the weaponized Aliens and showing their true terror is interesting enough given the right care.
It's just really stupid of Ridley Scott to want to separate away from Alien, but also at the same time still connect it in a parallel manner. It just doesn't work. I dunno, It just would be nice to have some consistency, that's all.
I can see your point... but for me it's like Star Wars e.g. there can be stories that can fit perfectly fine within that universe that don't need to contain Jedi, Yoda, Imperials etc. The focus of Prometheus, with or without xenos, always seemed to be more about the Engineers and the culture that would/could use biological weaponry. Whilst Prometheus, as a film, wasn't in the same league as Alien and Aliens... the underlying narrative/conceit is one worthy of further exploration - more so than aliens in air vents etc. etc. IMHO.
it comes down to new and creative scenarios for xenos to be intimidating in.. also i think a xeno needs an nc17 rating to really f**k with peoples fear and phobia in todays world.
Quote from: worldpeace on Nov 13, 2013, 09:34:35 AM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Nov 12, 2013, 10:12:20 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Nov 12, 2013, 07:22:37 AM
The problem, though, is that Prometheus has already attached itself to Alien from the get-go, so it can't really be its own thing with its own image. It's always going to come back to Alien and people are always not going to like it if it doesn't meet the same visual style and tone - if it doesn't "fit" in the universe.
I don't believe it could become stale if it was the same in style as Alien because a proper story with the Jockies and expanding on the weaponized Aliens and showing their true terror is interesting enough given the right care.
It's just really stupid of Ridley Scott to want to separate away from Alien, but also at the same time still connect it in a parallel manner. It just doesn't work. I dunno, It just would be nice to have some consistency, that's all.
I can see your point... but for me it's like Star Wars e.g. there can be stories that can fit perfectly fine within that universe that don't need to contain Jedi, Yoda, Imperials etc. The focus of Prometheus, with or without xenos, always seemed to be more about the Engineers and the culture that would/could use biological weaponry. Whilst Prometheus, as a film, wasn't in the same league as Alien and Aliens... the underlying narrative/conceit is one worthy of further exploration - more so than aliens in air vents etc. etc. IMHO.
it comes down to new and creative scenarios for xenos to be intimidating in.. also i think a xeno needs an nc17 rating to really f**k with peoples fear and phobia in todays world.
No it doesn't... I want an awesome movie with themes and stuff, not outright sexual assault of multiple orifices by tails, little mouths or trilobite tentacles. An Alien(Prometheus) movie should be something that you can take the entire family to.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 13, 2013, 12:07:39 PM
Quote from: worldpeace on Nov 13, 2013, 09:34:35 AM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Nov 12, 2013, 10:12:20 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Nov 12, 2013, 07:22:37 AM
The problem, though, is that Prometheus has already attached itself to Alien from the get-go, so it can't really be its own thing with its own image. It's always going to come back to Alien and people are always not going to like it if it doesn't meet the same visual style and tone - if it doesn't "fit" in the universe.
I don't believe it could become stale if it was the same in style as Alien because a proper story with the Jockies and expanding on the weaponized Aliens and showing their true terror is interesting enough given the right care.
It's just really stupid of Ridley Scott to want to separate away from Alien, but also at the same time still connect it in a parallel manner. It just doesn't work. I dunno, It just would be nice to have some consistency, that's all.
I can see your point... but for me it's like Star Wars e.g. there can be stories that can fit perfectly fine within that universe that don't need to contain Jedi, Yoda, Imperials etc. The focus of Prometheus, with or without xenos, always seemed to be more about the Engineers and the culture that would/could use biological weaponry. Whilst Prometheus, as a film, wasn't in the same league as Alien and Aliens... the underlying narrative/conceit is one worthy of further exploration - more so than aliens in air vents etc. etc. IMHO.
it comes down to new and creative scenarios for xenos to be intimidating in.. also i think a xeno needs an nc17 rating to really f**k with peoples fear and phobia in todays world.
No it doesn't... I want an awesome movie with themes and stuff, not outright sexual assault of multiple orifices by tails, little mouths or trilobite tentacles. An Alien(Prometheus) movie should be something that you can take the entire family to.
The alien is no longer scary so it was the right decision to ditch it. And if they attempted to create situations to make it scary again it would be nothing more than a Freddy Krueger or Jason. Realistically the only people who want yo see the alien again are kids
I disagree. The alien is still scary when I watch the trilogy, and some comic books especially show me that the creature can be still presented in unique ways and be featured in horror stories. Its all about presentation. Nolan made Batman serious and scary again after Schumacher farce, and even the Chucky franchise managed to steer back into horror direction after the two self parodying movies
Quote from: StrangeShape on Nov 13, 2013, 06:08:51 PM
I disagree. The alien is still scary when I watch the trilogy, and some comic books especially show me that the creature can be still presented in unique ways and be featured in horror stories. Its all about presentation. Nolan made Batman serious and scary again after Schumacher farce, and even the Chucky franchise managed to steer back into horror direction after the two self parodying movies
i agree. just because the shit hit the fan with avp doesn't mean it cant be fixed. if it's impossible to fix then humans and art have more limits than i realised .
I do agree with you somewhat I just think that only certain parts of the alien can be made scary but one of them isn't the matured alien. There's not a lot of situations left in which to put the alien. On the other hand I still think the most terrifying part is the facehugger and chestburster. Reading spaihts script I would have genuinely being scared of the sex chestburster and David torturing Shaw with a facehugger. But the alien is past its sell by date when it comes to scares. But that's not to say it isn't the greatest movie monster and of course it's just my opinion
I agree that the latest movies, or rather avp:r destroyed the alien image, by showing them as mindless bugs easily wiped out by one hand by a space Clint Eastwood, or even killed by a pizza boy (!), but I still think with the right context it can be scary again. Ridley managed to create at least some dread with the appearance of the Deacon
Quote from: StrangeShape on Nov 13, 2013, 09:44:21 PMRidley managed to create at least some dread with the appearance of the Deacon
"Oh, crap.
Another alien hybrid; this time from another humanoid being. Great."
"Just in time to do absolutely f**k all in the story".
Yeah, I don't see how a last-second pop up right before credits can instill much dread...
It wasn't even a threat to any of the characters, either. They were all either dead or out of there.
it was like chets birth only better looking. maybe its the lead villain for the seaquel? maybe a engineer will be the hero next
.. prometheus has grown on me even though its basically a giant tease
Quote from: worldpeace on Nov 14, 2013, 08:27:16 AM
maybe its the lead villain for the seaquel?
It's... going to take a ship and track them down across the galaxy... to... antagonize them...?
.......(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/avatars/humans/predator-dutch01.jpg)
How about this... neither Shaw nor David is in the sequel? Instead a rescue team is sent to LV 223 and opens negotiations with the deacon... bfffthahahaha!!!
Oh and by negotiations; I mean the Deacon kills them. Ha-ha.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 14, 2013, 09:31:30 AM
How about this... neither Shaw nor David is in the sequel? Instead a rescue team is sent to LV 223 and opens negotiations with the deacon... bfffthahahaha!!!
Oh and by negotiations; I mean the Deacon kills them. Ha-ha.
Doesnt sound so bad, that the sequel wont involve Shaw and David.
Or maybe something like Lord of the Rings, following Frodo and following the other group in there journey.
I kind of think you have to run with the Deacon for part two - otherwise, it was just a pointless cameo (from a character we'd never seen before!). Leave us wondering, "what the hell happened to Shaw and David?" as we watch the movie. Then, in Part III, tie the Shaw/David story and the Deacon story together. That'd be a pretty interesting and unconventional move to make...
The Deacon was left hanging since they were clearly shown leaving before it was birthed. Also something has got to happen to the LV-223 facility. In one way or the other. There is no way you can have an alien weapons facility out there in the open. Something or someone must have destroyed it before the events of Alien.
Oh... well, I guess that could be it. After shaw and david f**k up everything the original Space Jockey lands and sets a self destruct device on LV-223 and then leaves for earth unbeknownst to him that he was faced raped during the process... and crashes on LV 426. :-\
Quote from: Infected on Nov 14, 2013, 09:21:55 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 14, 2013, 09:31:30 AM
How about this... neither Shaw nor David is in the sequel? Instead a rescue team is sent to LV 223 and opens negotiations with the deacon... bfffthahahaha!!!
Oh and by negotiations; I mean the Deacon kills them. Ha-ha.
Doesnt sound so bad, that the sequel wont involve Shaw and David.
Or maybe something like Lord of the Rings, following Frodo and following the other group in there journey.
Second option would work best. Otherwise, all of the 'questions' and motivations set up in the first movie that seemed like they were there purely as sequel bait will become pointless and irrelevant.
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Nov 14, 2013, 09:11:02 AM
Quote from: worldpeace on Nov 14, 2013, 08:27:16 AM
maybe its the lead villain for the seaquel?
It's... going to take a ship and track them down across the galaxy... to... antagonize them...?
.......http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/avatars/humans/predator-dutch01.jpg
it's logical to think a rescue would come for vickers life pod and stumble upon deacon . how did the original alien know to get in the escape life ship at the end of alien?.. :-[
It would be fairly pointless to set up so much ambiguity in Prometheus to then go the Aliens route in the sequel.
I think the Deacon is supposed to be just another part of the "Alien DNA". I don't think we'll see that creature again, or at least not in that form.
Quote from: Highland on Nov 16, 2013, 10:40:14 AM
It would be fairly pointless to set up so much ambiguity in Prometheus to then go the Aliens route in the sequel.
I think the Deacon is supposed to be just another part of the "Alien DNA". I don't think we'll see that creature again, or at least not in that form.
this.
The engineers are the bigshow.
At the end of the Prometheus commentary, Ridley says he "might" use the Deacon or not in the future.... Engineers are the big show but the Deacon might show up again...
Let's all remember that Shaw and David are using another Ship full of deadly bioweapons as a cargo... ;)
Quote from: Blacklabel on Nov 16, 2013, 11:02:54 AM
At the end of the Prometheus commentary, Ridley says he "might" use the Deacon or not in the future.... Engineers are the big show but the Deacon might show up again...
Let's all remember that Shaw and David are using another Ship full of deadly bioweapons as a cargo... ;)
HAHA. That's a good point. I could see the morons leaving for paradise with a fully loaded cargo of WMDS.
The Deacon was just one outcome from exposure to the black goo just as the xenomorph is another, I'm hoping the next outcome is a little more like the ultramorph concept art than the Deacon if they decide to reintroduce another one in the next film, (even though the deacon we seen in the film is essentially a chestburster, the adult could look significantly cooler)
They had designs that were so much better than what made it to the film...
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/prometheus/creatures/creatures302.jpg)
Le sigh...
Yerp that's what I was talking about.
The Deacon is there at the end to hint at where the goo can lead when biological reproduction becomes part of the cycle. It's a deconstruction of the ultimate weapon that was Kane's Son. It doubt if it will feature again, not that one anyway. I don't regard it's appearance as a gimmick to end the film - as was done in AvP - the Deacon is the book-end moment that ties Prometheus to A L I E N by saying what was a contained bio weapon can lead to new an dangerous creature in it's own right if it's not controlled. Seeing it, especially seeing it as a weaker forbear of what it could be, is the connecting moment and therefore pretty much essential in closing Prometheus.
If Shaw and David now travel to the planet of the Engineers I can see why it's been said that any further sequel would likely move further away from A L I E N, following it's own course. It could feature biomechanical alien-like horrors akin to Kane's Son, or it could concentrate on the brutal civilisation of the Engineers and those they serve.
Quote from: Gash on Dec 23, 2013, 09:22:45 PM...the Deacon is the book-end moment that ties Prometheus to A L I E N by saying what was a contained bio weapon can lead to new an dangerous creature in it's own right if it's not controlled ... and therefore pretty much essential in closing Prometheus.
By the time Shaw takes off in the alien ship there isn't any ambiguity about how dangerous the goo is and what it might be capable of, nor is there any doubt about the connection to the original film. The deacon, unless it has some role to play in future films, is completely unnecessary; it doesn't suggest anything that we don't already suspect by that point.
And it looks like a pint of shit.
Quote from: Gash on Dec 23, 2013, 09:22:45 PM
If Shaw and David now travel to the planet of the Engineers I can see why it's been said that any further sequel would likely move further away from A L I E N, following it's own course. It could feature biomechanical alien-like horrors akin to Kane's Son
I doubt it, since Scott tried to distance himself from Giger continuously throughout the production. Any Giger element only survived because the concept artists pushed for it time and again. Ridley doesn't seem to want to "repeat" himself. You'll get new monster designers "inspired" by Giger but not beholden to his style.
I was going to say that a Prometheus sequel would probably have taken it's own course further away from ALIEN, as it always seemed to me, right from early in 2011 that it was Fox who were scared about calling it an ALIEN prequel for fear of the reaction to the lack of familiar aliens. I don't believe Scott was ever that worried about it but was being advised to talk about it having the DNA and play down the connections.
However, I also think that certain reactions to Prometheus might mean that Fox will feel a sequel perhaps needs to acknowledge the familiar alien more directly, whether that's a good thing or not I don't know.
Personally, although scrutiny reveals major differences I think Prometheus is the film where the design aesthetic - aboard the Prometheus and aboard the Juggernaut, remain the most faithful to ALIEN.
The Deacon is bound to look gawky clumsy and a bit shit compared to Kane's Son, but it serves the job of closing the life cycle - at least enough to make it clear what the DNA altering goo is capable of.
The vast majority of design choices work, but there are certainly a few that were neglected in favour of easier options - the Deacon is admittedly the best example - Huante's white beast, even as an infant, might have looked as good as the original chestburter. What I don't understand is why the translucency that was so sought in ALIEN wasn't pushed further in an era when it could have been realised much more easily. A glassy version of the alien bursting out of the Engineer would have been something to see.
Quote from: Gash on Dec 25, 2013, 07:12:23 PMWhat I don't understand is why the translucency that was so sought in ALIEN wasn't pushed further in an era when it could have been realised much more easily. A glassy version of the alien bursting out of the Engineer would have been something to see.
Indeed. As would the Sean Harris (i.e. in-camera) version of Fifield. Seeing an actual actor in makeup who's about 10-20% translucent would be pretty freaky.
Having watched all the Alien films over the Xmas period I was again reminded how utterly pants Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection are. Don't get me wrong, I think Alien 3 is the best looking Alien film to date... and there's obviously a lot of artistry in the direction, design, sets etc. but they are so far removed from the originality and quality of Alien as to be different things completely. Which makes me believe Scott's Prometheus was probably as good as could be expected - and trying to move the concept away from xenos is the right thing to do in order to give the film (and any sequel) justification.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Dec 25, 2013, 11:16:26 AM
Quote from: Gash on Dec 23, 2013, 09:22:45 PM...the Deacon is the book-end moment that ties Prometheus to A L I E N by saying what was a contained bio weapon can lead to new an dangerous creature in it's own right if it's not controlled ... and therefore pretty much essential in closing Prometheus.
By the time Shaw takes off in the alien ship there isn't any ambiguity about how dangerous the goo is and what it might be capable of, nor is there any doubt about the connection to the original film. The deacon, unless it has some role to play in future films, is completely unnecessary; it doesn't suggest anything that we don't already suspect by that point.
And it looks like a pint of shit.
The black goo only exists because the Engineers like us came across the alien species and found it too uncontrollable. They created the goo to make alien like creatures that can be controlled. They created us humans as a test ground the deacon is a result of the good mixing with species to show its origin the xenomorph that's where the goo came from it has alien DNA in it. The deacons design shouldn't be as good as the original alien it's a abomination that came about when mixing the aliens DNA with different species the perfect organism was tainted.
The what now?
Quote from: SM on Jan 02, 2014, 10:55:00 PM
The what now?
Is this to my post? If so I can explain my reasoning if you are confused.
I'm just wondering where you got all that from.
Quote from: SM on Jan 02, 2014, 11:49:21 PM
I'm just wondering where you got all that from.
Oh I put it together myself with the ideas of other people. It makes the most sense to me the idea that the engineers didn't create the aliens looks and sounds better. It's just my opinion though I would be fine with the engineers creating the xenomorph but they created us too so I don't like the idea that they made both us and the alien species.
Right.
Why did they create us in order to make Deacons (which was made by one guy infected with goo, impregnating a woman with goo infected sperm, and the resulting creature impregnating an Engineer) - but then never exploit us to do precisely that.
Quote from: SM on Jan 02, 2014, 11:58:12 PM
Right.
Why did they create us in order to make Deacons (which was made by one guy infected with goo, impregnating a woman with goo infected sperm, and the resulting creature impregnating an Engineer) - but then never exploit us to do precisely that.
I said the deacon was an abomination not the intended outcome. What the engineers wanted was xenomorph like creatures so they created us as a species to test on instead of their own kind. To create one must first destroy like David said, they planed to go to earth as seen in Prometheus but the goo turned out to be extremely dangerous stopping this action.
Yeah but you also said
QuoteThey created us humans as a test ground the deacon is a result of the good mixing with species to show its origin the xenomorph that's where the goo came from it has alien DNA in it.
Is there some punctuation required here?
And if they created us to in order to create 'xenomorph like creatures' why did they wait eons to so?
Quote from: SM on Jan 03, 2014, 12:15:55 AM
Yeah but you also said
QuoteThey created us humans as a test ground the deacon is a result of the good mixing with species to show its origin the xenomorph that's where the goo came from it has alien DNA in it.
Is there some punctuation required here?
And if they created us to in order to create 'xenomorph like creatures' why did they wait eons to so?
The "good" should be goo my mistake sorry. They waited for us to evolve into a species that resembled them in order to get decent results.
Something they might of done on many other worlds in the past. The idea that they created us and then guided our evolution with 'upgrades' (not ever mentioned in the film, but strongly suggested by early drafts of the script as well as Arthur Max and co.) then it stands to reason that they could of 'engineered' humans on planets all over the galaxy. We might be just one batch of many going back in time.
Still not sure what the goo meant for Earth was intended to do, either kill us or 'upgrade' us. The film to my mind suggests the latter, what with the whole 'destroy to create' thing.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Jan 03, 2014, 09:54:33 AM
Still not sure what the goo meant for Earth was intended to do, either kill us or 'upgrade' us. The film to my mind suggests the latter, what with the whole 'destroy to create' thing.
I guess it was meant to kill us and transform the remains into a servile mutant race (creation through destruction). Like Shoggoth. Or something.. I
guess.
It doesn't really matter. What matters is it wasn't going to be good for us.
Quote from: Valaquen on Jan 03, 2014, 09:11:19 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Jan 03, 2014, 09:54:33 AM
Still not sure what the goo meant for Earth was intended to do, either kill us or 'upgrade' us. The film to my mind suggests the latter, what with the whole 'destroy to create' thing.
I guess it was meant to kill us and transform the remains into a servile mutant race (creation through destruction). Like Shoggoth. Or something.. I guess.
Exactly it was meant to destroy us by creating new creatures.
QuoteIt doesn't really matter. What matters is it wasn't going to be good for us.
But it speaks to their whole modus operandi, and informs what could be awaiting Shaw in the sequel. It could be a way of introducing new human characters... nah, that kind of stinks of an SG1 plot... never mind.
It still doesn't matter to the story of Prometheus.
What if the goo was infected with something else? Like if it was the seed of life but became cross-infected with a weapon.