Scientific inaccuracies in Alien

Started by The Cruentus, Feb 05, 2021, 02:17:19 PM

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Scientific inaccuracies in Alien (Read 32,219 times)

The Cruentus

I did but I decided to go good faith and assume you didn't intend to offend.

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#256
I didn't intend to offend, my friend

can still do without the pass-aggro

we're all friends here

The Cruentus

Come on you must have an opinion or something to point out about Alien.  :laugh:

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#258
I really wish they edited Ripley adjusting Ash's head differently -- that's the biggest gripe I have about the movie. That cut is so jarring. But that's hardly to do with this topic, hah

The Cruentus

Well not too far off actually since during that scene we get a good look at what Ash's made up of and its kind of odd for an android, there is the milky stuff and those bulbs. So there is something that raises questions.

BlueMarsalis79

Quote from: Omegamorph on Feb 24, 2021, 02:53:18 PM
I really wish they edited Ripley adjusting Ash's head differently -- that's the biggest gripe I have about the movie. That cut is so jarring. But that's hardly to do with this topic, hah

This, Ash in general does not hold up to scrutiny, and it sucks because whether it's his head or absence of anything below the waist area it's an easy editing cover up.

The Cruentus

Yeah, Cameron fixed his mistake in the bluray version of Aliens. Funny enough that involved a broken android as well.  :laugh:

Immortan Jonesy

Immortan Jonesy

#262
Quote from: The Cruentus on Feb 24, 2021, 02:03:41 PMIt is easy to point out inaccuries in Covenant, Prometheus, Resurrection and the AVP movies and so on because of how over the top they are but you don't often see people pointing out things in the first film.

I'm eager to learn more about it. I mean, why such thing happen in the first place? Is it due to its status as a science fiction masterpiece? 
That is, a piece of art so well executed to the point that people ignore or are unable to notice flaws ??? (also confirmation bias) Or maybe it's because there isn't much to say really, since as you say, Alien was surprisingly fairly down to earth.

Quote from: The Cruentus on Feb 24, 2021, 02:03:41 PM
How would stasis work anyway?

In Alien, the sleepers had small round things attached to them, presumably to monitor life-signs, but if they are supposed to be in stasis then there should not be any life-signs as everything would suspended.

If its meant to simply be something that slows everything down to the point where aging and bodily needs are practically gone, then how safe or plausible would that be?

Doesn't that sound like dying for a long time and then being resurrected? 😱

Anyway I just find these definitions in the medical dictionary;

Quote from: Medical DictionarySuspended animation:

- A temporary suspension or cessation of the vital functions, with loss of consciousness.

- A temporary state of interrupted breathing and loss of consciousness resembling death, caused especially by asphyxia.

- A temporary state resembling death, with cessation of respiration; may also refer to certain forms of hibernation in animals or to endospore formation by some bacteria.

suspended animation

And apparently it is plausible 👀

Quote from: The GuardianKnown formally as emergency preservation and resuscitation, or EPR, the procedure is being trialled on people who sustain such catastrophic injuries that they are in danger of bleeding to death and who suffer a heart attack shortly before they can be treated. The patients, who are often victims of stabbings or shootings, would normally have less than a 5% chance of survival.

https://twitter.com/guardianscience/status/1197172128514109446

Quote from: Earth SkyThe European Space Agency (ESA) said on November 18, 2019, that its scientists have recently been investigating the process of placing astronauts into hibernation to cross the vastness of space. These scientists met at ESA's Concurrent Design Facility to assess the advantages of human hibernation for a trip to a neighboring planet, such as Mars. They took as their reference an existing study that described sending six humans to Mars and back on a five-year timescale. They studied how crew hibernation would impact space mission design, and put some numbers to known advantages to human hibernation for space travel, for example, that a smaller space capsule could be used if the crew were hibernating, rather than awake, for the months-long journey to Mars.

ESA studies human hibernation for space travel

Quote from: Astronomy MagGray mouse lemurs are more closely related to humans than mice. They also have the ability to hibernate, and researchers are hoping to learn how to transfer that ability to humans.

https://twitter.com/physorg_space/status/1338483892454645760

SM

SM

#263
Quote from: The Cruentus on Feb 24, 2021, 02:03:41 PM
Quote from: Omegamorph on Feb 23, 2021, 10:17:54 PM
golly people do you all really spend this much time and energy over pondering about certain details that are so far from the movies' intentions and soul as something possibly can?

It's one thing to argue about artistic merit, or relative artistic insertion or whatnot, another thing is arguing about scientific inaccuracies within art that doesn't bother being 100% scientifically accurate because -- hold on -- otherwise it would not exist

Alien, Aliens and whatnot are pieces of art, and specifically cinema. They don't employ real world rules all the time - quite in fact they go against them in more than one way, and this is true for literally every single piece of fiction that has ever been made, bar none

Quote from: Omegamorph on Feb 23, 2021, 10:50:32 PM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 23, 2021, 10:24:54 PM
... are you new here?
hi im 12 and wuht is this?

Quote from: Omegamorph on Feb 23, 2021, 11:45:15 PM
Quote from: Trash Queen on Feb 23, 2021, 11:40:24 PM
Quote from: Omegamorph on Feb 23, 2021, 10:50:32 PM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 23, 2021, 10:24:54 PM
... are you new here?
hi im 12 and wuht is this?


I don't know if I wanna go 'awww' or puke, or both. 'Pukaaaawwwww'?

.......Riiiight

Anyway, back to topic.


Also to clarify for those who may think this is a nitpicking critic threads, its not. The pointing out of the scientific inaccuries of the first film is meant to be good natured here.
Of course a 1970s sci/fi is going to require suspensions of disbelief and it won't be perfect, it goes without saying really.
Alien was surprisingly fairly down to earth, especially compared to later entries, which is why I wanted to create this thread. It is easy to point out inaccuries in Covenant, Prometheus, Resurrection and the AVP movies and so on because of how over the top they are but you don't often see people pointing out things in the first film. I guess its made easier by the quality of the movies too.  :P

Alien did a few things right, the omission of how space travel and cryogenics work is a smart move, as there is nothing to despute if no infomation is there. As any information put forward would more than likely be contradicted or outright proven wrong by mankind's increasing understanding of the science of the world.

That being said, even without the mechanics being explained, cryo-stasis is pretty much out there since the only thing to survive freezing and being thawed was a frog I believe.

How would stasis work anyway?

In Alien, the sleepers had small round things attached to them, presumably to monitor life-signs, but if they are supposed to be in stasis then there should not be any life-signs as everything would suspended.

If its meant to simply be something that slows everything down to the point where aging and bodily needs are practically gone, then how safe or plausible would that be?

Completely since it's the future.

And it slows everything down, not stop it.

Immortan Jonesy

The least plausible thing in the movie (although we know there is an artistic purpose behind it) is the Alien's growth rate. I suppose insects can do something similar, but the Alien is a vertebrate organism. In real life, the fastest growing vertebrate animal is a fish.

Quote from: Smithsonian MagSome animals live fast and die young. That means they need to grow up fast, too. This week, researchers crowned a new record holder for quick growth: Susan Milius at Science News reports that the turquoise killifish, Nothobranchius furzeri, found in Mozambique, can reach maturity in just 14 days, the fastest of any known vertebrate animal.

https://twitter.com/SmithsonianMag/status/1027207875473629184

Anyway in the same article they say  :laugh:

Quote from: Smithsonian MagSome animals live fast and die young. That means they need to grow up fast, too.

And since this was before the Cameron sequel, I still think the Alien went to die to the Narcissus.



There's even a song


Corporal Hicks

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Feb 24, 2021, 11:17:48 PM
And since this was before the Cameron sequel, I still think the Alien went to die to the Narcissus.

Well that was 100% one of the earliest intents of what it was doing. Not sure if that narrative was ever actually dropped and just not really communicated though?

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#266
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 25, 2021, 08:43:04 AM
Well that was 100% one of the earliest intents of what it was doing. Not sure if that narrative was ever actually dropped and just not really communicated though?
In some interviews it was even stated that the Alien was trying to revert back into an egg...

"I wanted the alien to continually change shape. When it appears in the machinery at the end, it could very well be dying, finishing there its very limited life cycle, maybe even metamorphosing into a chrysalis so that its physical volume decreases - so that it could return in the form of an egg and hibernate again."

Translated from l'Ecran Fantastique #11. Ridley Scott quote.
Courtesy of old wmm http://alienexplorations.blogspot.com/1979/10/life-cycle-of-alien.html

Drukathi

Drukathi

#267
It looked like he was just sleeping sweetly.
Not that he was experiencing loss of strength or coordination or other signs of imminent death. The alien did not even change outwardly - did not look falling apart or in the process of transformation.

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#268
Quote from: Drukathi on Feb 25, 2021, 11:11:22 AM
It looked like he was just sleeping sweetly.
Not that he was experiencing loss of strength or coordination or other signs of imminent death. The alien did not even change outwardly - did not look falling apart or in the process of transformation.
agreed... the intention(s) were there, they just aren't sold in the scene. It's ambiguous enough... which allowed Cameron to make his Aliens older than the span Big Chap went thru

TC

TC

#269
In 1979 (1978 really), Scott was going to be influenced by either one of the two biggest space movies of the time: Star Wars or 2001. It always seemed to me he chose 2001.

The way Scott depicted spaceflight, particularly the Nostromo's departure from the refinery and descent from orbit - was very 2001ish. Not just the balletic movement and the music, but also the way the engines fire up only momentarily, to give the ship a forward impulse, and then quickly shut down again. Compare that with Star Wars where spaceflight requires engine nozzles lit up and firing constantly.

Cameron, too, noted this and had the Sulaco sweep past camera towards Acheron with its engines dark. You don't often see this in today's sci-fi movies. I guess lit up engines just look more exciting.

And also compare with Prometheus (2012) in which that ship also has constantly lit up engines while travelling through space. Hmmm. I think Scott felt in the intervening decades that audiences had gotten used to the Star Wars mode of space engine, and they would wonder how the Prometheus was able to fly through space with dead engines.  :(

And the sleep pods onboard the Nostromo were probably (in Scott's mind) like the hibernation devices from 2001 too. More cryogenic ("back to the old freezerinos") with slowed metabolic functions in the occupants, rather than outright stasis. Hence the sensor tabs.

TC

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