Best pic of an Alien

Started by War Wager, Sep 19, 2007, 05:58:14 PM

Author
Best pic of an Alien (Read 1,609,930 times)

DoomRulz

DoomRulz

#1140
Yeesh, Giger looks terrible.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#1141
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 14, 2010, 04:59:20 PM
Yeesh, Giger looks terrible.
He's 70 years old. His wikipedia picture doesn't paint him in a handsome light either. The guy always loved the grotesque anyway :P No offense, I love Giger.

The Demon

The Demon

#1142
Quote from: JamesCameronOnline on Apr 14, 2010, 03:58:31 PM
Anyway, always loved that shot



Its beautiful  :o

SiL

SiL

#1143
Quote from: JamesCameronOnline on Apr 14, 2010, 03:58:09 PM
Not a single line was changed, not a single line. The difference was in in hands and feet only.
And the arms are completely different. And the Aliens design has four extra ribs (Two each side).

QuoteThe head had - again - IDENTICAL design to what Giger designed under the dome. Not one original or added curve even.
No, it isn't. By no stretch of the word is it identical. It's missing a whole human face and the way the mouth is made up is completely different. You look at the close-ups of the faces between the movies and there's more of a difference than 'One's got a dome'.

Quotehttp://www.jamescamerononline.com/Alien%20costume.jpghttp://www.jamescamerononline.com/alienstorsonc.jpg
This rather neatly demonstrates MaddassAlex' point about the Aliens being "stretched". The original Alien's ribcage is fairly tight, whereas the Aliens dummy has huge gaps between the ribs, and there's more distance between the base of the rib-cage and the beginning of the abdominal detailing.

Sexy Poot

Sexy Poot

#1144
So what have we learned it today? That the Cameron Aliens are VERY similar to Gigers. They both are awesome. We have 2 movies that wont be topped anytime soon and the fan base is strong and aren't nerdy like Star Wars and all that crap. There, we all love one another right?

ShadowPred


SpaceMarines

SpaceMarines

#1146
Quote from: Sexy Poot on Apr 14, 2010, 11:22:19 PM
So what have we learned it today? That the Cameron Aliens are VERY similar to Gigers. They both are awesome. We have 2 movies that wont be topped anytime soon and the fan base is strong and aren't nerdy like Star Wars and all that crap. There, we all love one another right?

Kum ba yah, my lord, kum ba yah...

XenoVC

XenoVC

#1147
Quote from: MadassAlex on Apr 14, 2010, 03:09:36 PM
Fo' srs.

Check the body. It has some shallow nods to the ADI Aliens, but the core of the creature is much more Gigerian.

My biggest beef with the AvP2010 Aliens is the lack of gums,or rendered ones anyway.

JamesCameronOnline

JamesCameronOnline

#1148
Quote from: SiL on Apr 14, 2010, 10:56:20 PM
Quote from: JamesCameronOnline on Apr 14, 2010, 03:58:09 PM
Not a single line was changed, not a single line. The difference was in in hands and feet only.
And the arms are completely different. And the Aliens design has four extra ribs (Two each side).

And thats not a "cosmetic" change?? The general design is intact, look at the lines, curves and the mechanical parts. They are exactly the same. All of them. Every cable, every ribbed tube, every part. The media also noted the obvious back in the 80s: "It's evident that the makers of the sequel had a great respect for the original Alien which Winston himself remembers as "the best horror movie of the decade". For this reason, the design concepts for the facehugger, the chestburster and the warrior aliens remain relatively unchanged" - Galactic Journal magazine #21 1986

As far as the hands and feet, its a continuation of Scott's idea of having alien look less human. The shape of the hands somewhat gave out the human shape in general. By stretching the fingers it distorts the human hands a little, not to mention it adds to the realism of the biology of the creatures since the hands match the inner hands of the queen. And also, as every creature ages, the hands and fingers grow longer, its a natural biologic process.

Quote
QuoteThe head had - again - IDENTICAL design to what Giger designed under the dome. Not one original or added curve even.
No, it isn't. By no stretch of the word is it identical. It's missing a whole human face and the way the mouth is made up is completely different. You look at the close-ups of the faces between the movies and there's more of a difference than 'One's got a dome'.

There was no human face in Alien. I dont think youre reffering to the skull which obviously wouldnt be included. If you look at the heads, there still isnt one original line in the design. Its all Giger's. Its right there, black on white, line for line, identical. Why are you trying to discredit it so much? Why that barrier? Why hate it with such stubborness? No redesign was made and everything is like Gigers under the dome. No, theres no skull obviously and the face is smoothed out instead of having eyes sockets and nose.

Quote
This rather neatly demonstrates MaddassAlex' point about the Aliens being "stretched". The original Alien's ribcage is fairly tight, whereas the Aliens dummy has huge gaps between the ribs, and there's more distance between the base of the rib-cage and the beginning of the abdominal detailing

Which only continues the idea of Scott. Scott got the thinnest man he could possibly find. In Aliens they got an idea how to make it even thinner, in the way no man could possibly fit in the suit - by making dummies. To Scott's credit, he couldnt use dummies for the shots he required plus the animatronics werent as advanced yet. And the body design is still the same. When every line and part is duplicated but only a ribcage added, you cant call it a redesign or different really.



SiL

SiL

#1149
Quote from: JamesCameronOnline on Apr 15, 2010, 12:11:59 AM
They are exactly the same.
They are not exactly the same on the entirety of the arm. The arms are completely different. Not only in the design, but as you said, stretched out.

Quote"It's evident that the makers of the sequel had a great respect for the original Alien
I'm not saying they didn't.

QuoteAnd also, as every creature ages, the hands and fingers grow longer, its a natural biologic process.
They don't usually lose a finger, though. Or gain a toe out the side of their foot.

QuoteI dont think youre reffering to the skull which obviously wouldnt be included.
Of course I'm talking about the skull. They completely removed the face from the skull - Ergo, they changed a line. Several, in fact.

QuoteIts right there, black on white, line for line, identical.
Except it isn't.

Look at a screenshot of the Alien's face as it appears in-film in Alien, and then as it appears in Aliens. The jaws are very, very different.

QuoteNo, theres no skull obviously and the face is smoothed out instead of having eyes sockets and nose.
So it isn't like Giger's!

I don't hate the design, I love it. I hate that there are people calling it identical when it very clearly isn't. I can sit here pointing out all the differences, ergo, it's not identical. That's all. It's frustrating that you're praising the design for being something it isn't.

It looks great. I agree! And it is remarkably faithful, I give it that. A lot of effort was put into it.

I agree here.

But it's not identical to what Giger did by a long shot. There are many, many changes, however small.

QuoteWhen every line and part is duplicated but only a ribcage added, you cant call it a redesign or different really.
But it is different.

If you have added ribs, it is not identical. Six and eight are not the same number.

This is what's getting me annoyed. You're saying 'Oh, look, every little bit is the same, every line is exactly identical to what Giger did', and then you post a comparison picture that highlights that there are, in fact, quite a few new lines added.

I'm not saying 'No, you're wrong, there are changes, therefor it's bad', I'm not that puritanical. I'm saying 'No, it's not identical, there clearly are differences, stop acting like it's a carbon copy please'.

SM

SM

#1150
Have we touched on the now you see 'em now you don't arm blades and dorsal spike?

SiL

SiL

#1151
I was planning on having this argument end this week :P

SM

SM

#1152
Have I not ended it then?

chupacabras acheronsis

chupacabras acheronsis

#1153
they are different. yes, the Cameron-
Spoiler


im sorry, can we call it the "Winston" alien from now on? since cameron only decided to take the dome off-
[close]
is less human, but that is not a bad thing. the role they portray in the movies is far different, and honestly i cant picture the Giger's alien jumping around and charging at the marines. its made to look majestic and creepy, not as aggressive or rushed. its a metodic killer, not a messy monster.

JamesCameronOnline

JamesCameronOnline

#1154
Quote from: SiL on Apr 15, 2010, 12:26:01 AM
Quote from: JamesCameronOnline on Apr 15, 2010, 12:11:59 AM
They are exactly the same.
They are not exactly the same on the entirety of the arm. The arms are completely different. Not only in the design, but as you said, stretched out.

Quote"It's evident that the makers of the sequel had a great respect for the original Alien
I'm not saying they didn't.

QuoteAnd also, as every creature ages, the hands and fingers grow longer, its a natural biologic process.
They don't usually lose a finger, though. Or gain a toe out the side of their foot.

QuoteI dont think youre reffering to the skull which obviously wouldnt be included.
Of course I'm talking about the skull. They completely removed the face from the skull - Ergo, they changed a line. Several, in fact.

QuoteIts right there, black on white, line for line, identical.
Except it isn't.

Look at a screenshot of the Alien's face as it appears in-film in Alien, and then as it appears in Aliens. The jaws are very, very different.

QuoteNo, theres no skull obviously and the face is smoothed out instead of having eyes sockets and nose.
So it isn't like Giger's!

I don't hate the design, I love it. I hate that there are people calling it identical when it very clearly isn't. I can sit here pointing out all the differences, ergo, it's not identical. That's all. It's frustrating that you're praising the design for being something it isn't.

It looks great. I agree! And it is remarkably faithful, I give it that. A lot of effort was put into it.

I agree here.

But it's not identical to what Giger did by a long shot. There are many, many changes, however small.

QuoteWhen every line and part is duplicated but only a ribcage added, you cant call it a redesign or different really.
But it is different.

If you have added ribs, it is not identical. Six and eight are not the same number.

This is what's getting me annoyed. You're saying 'Oh, look, every little bit is the same, every line is exactly identical to what Giger did', and then you post a comparison picture that highlights that there are, in fact, quite a few new lines added.

I'm not saying 'No, you're wrong, there are changes, therefor it's bad', I'm not that puritanical. I'm saying 'No, it's not identical, there clearly are differences, stop acting like it's a carbon copy please'.

All right we're on the same page then. Still, not a line was added to the design when it comes to body and head, its all Giger's authorship. Thats why there was some animosity towards the late Stan Winston when he received an Oscar for Aliens for "getting an Oscar for Giger's designs"

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