New shared universe AvP timeline? Changes to cannon?

Started by Thunderjack88, Mar 01, 2020, 12:00:13 PM

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New shared universe AvP timeline? Changes to cannon? (Read 12,330 times)

Thunderjack88

Hey all,

So with Disney/Searchlight studios change from Fox we actually have a good chance at a reset of the timeline a bit like Dark Horses Fire and Stone series did.

As we know expanded shared universes are all the rage now, Monsterverse the MCU being two big strong ones so it would make sense for Searchlight to take a page from Darkhorse and pick what films make it before they produce more (I think a hard reboot is unlikely).

So regardless if you like or dislike the films the question is what could you see become cannon? What other owned franchises might make it into this new AvPunniverse?

Personally I can see them keeping all bar the two Alien vs Predator films due to the Weyland inclusion that Ridely Scott complicated in Prometheus.

Predator series has only been modern day so that's not an issue and I'm sure clever writing can fix the Predator Hunter suit be it doesn't work and they reverse engineer it or it gets destroyed. That being my only major wanted change to the Predator series to be included as they dont really drop any universe shattering bombs.

Alien I personally would keep them all as Ripelys story is pretty much over and bar a cameo from Ripley8 (Same for Dutch in Predator) I feel like they can move on keeping established lore.

Predators hunting the strongest prey means storyline they are super easy to write in so no need to shoehorn Alien lore into those films unless you move them to the Alien current time in which case a few company and colonial marines references would be more than enough.

As for Aliens I would like them to keep the Engineers at the top of the food chain but a dying out species that appears to have fought with an emerging race (the Predators) having reason for there vibe of being prepared for war with a race they didn't create but one that would take interest in them. After that short fore shadowing continue as normal following a new fresh cast maybe even a Marine unit.

Then bring Predator to an Alien story for the first AvP of this new merger (for the love of the Engineers! Please do this Xenomorphs in the past just bleugh). Keep it to an encounter with that Hunter species almost like a mission and then films can break back to solo films without needing to focus on including the other species in their films.

As for a series I'd see being a good fit (although Sony owns it atm) I'd like to see a "Bug hunt" where Starship troopers is rebooted in and say their
Federation Marine Corps are non Weyland Yutani marines in another sector of the universe maybe even leading to a Xenomorph Warrior bug hybrid?

So your thoughts on if this is something that might happen and how would you envision it?

-TJ88

SM

It would not surprise me if they did what they did with Star Wars and hit reset with the films being the core source material, and spin new content off that.

It would also not surprise me if they ditched Alien 3 and Resurrection.

Thunderjack88

Quote from: SM on Mar 01, 2020, 07:31:43 PM
It would not surprise me if they did what they did with Star Wars and hit reset with the films being the core source material, and spin new content off that.

It would also not surprise me if they ditched Alien 3 and Resurrection.

I can see that as a possibility get J.C to direct a true successor to Aliens that blends better with Prometheus etc.

So I was spitballing this idea with a friend and he reminded me that Blade runner has been hinted and rumoured to be shared universe with the Alien films. Also that timelines can be explained by misinformation or different colonies setting up there own history so to speak and films set in the past can still exist in cannon like Predator. So we had a non license based conversation about existing film franchises that could fit together. Bear in mind for fans for most franchises this is of course sacrilege and just thought exercise.

Okay so the universe is set around the Engineers and all their terrible creations.

Engineer creates mankind as seen in Prometheus but also creates weapons such as the black goo and The Thing.
Meanwhile and emerging race called the Yautja or Predators grow into a threat as the engineers race becomes stagnant. This later leads to wars between the two where the Engineer creature more deadly weapons to fight the Yautja unwittingly giving them a purpose and making them stronger.

We start with the Thing series where the movies stay cannon but later it is revealed the Thing was created by the Engineers to infiltrate their enemies home worlds and destroy them from the inside without them knowing until it was to late and the seeds of mistrust were already sown. Unfortunately the creation was to difficult to control and direct as its survival drive would always take over, with no other option the Engineers set to destroying this failure only for several to realise this and to escape using the engineers and their ships to flee one being the Thing on earth as seen in the two films.  This leads to the engineers work into the Black goo.

The Predator film series now takes place as normal (we decided Avp and AvP:R would be ripped from cannon here so no Predators teaching mankind or existence of Xenomorphs to early). A push on Yutani as a company backing the taskforce dealing with the XT Predators would be inserted here.

Prometheus/Alien: C happens with a 3rd film linking them to the ship found in the original Alien David's dream come true. A subtle hint to the Engineers war with the Predators on a mural in the background to build the world again.

On a planet dubbed by Weyland as "New Earth" (due to them taking old earths countries and cities names and starting their own calendar which explains the year differences) in a rivals companies sector of owned space. We have the Blade Runner films taking place this franchise will link in with another film showing them dealing with the failed synthetic uprising as described by Call in Alien Resurrection (Only The AvP films where cut from our cannon).

Alien 1-3 happen with Alien isolation getting made cannon in some form of TV show, film etc.

Meanwhile we get a Starship Troopers reboot (it's old enough and got to wacky that we see it getting a cut to be moulded as a connecting film) this takes part in another companies sector of space with a slightly more series tone think of a mix between the original ST and Aliens marines.
Speaking of marines one liners like your part of the Terran Federation not some backwater opperation like the UMSC and how they need to destroy the bugs not only for the good of Humanity but to stop traitors like Weyland-Yutani from exploiting their enemies against them. Once again they will refer to themselves as having Earth in their system (forming a theme like in the existing Alien franchise where we are not sure what has happened to eartha d with these inclusions who actually is in possession of the real earth?).
We would also have hints that the engineers created the Bugs but once again it didn't end well. What can I say mostly it's just another Bug hunt.

Now we get interesting we get Alien:R which as we know has a bit of a time jump. With the films working hard to create narrative bridges between existing films while still being good standalone films we get a new Alien (not prequel but Sequel) film and a Predator film set after 2379 (W-Y time) setting us up for the vs film while establishing the two films in their new Disney owned setting.

Then we get the Alien Vs Predator reboot film set after Alien: R having it play out like an Alien film but witha 3rd party being added with the predators (but more of a slasher calculated threat building more of difference between the two species other than 1 kinda has honour). I'd add reason for The Predator using upgrades here as in the humans have uncovered a hidden Engineer base with a new War mkde6Engineer and they have come to wipe them out. David having perfected the Xenomorph cycle the Engineers have weaponized them (similar to like that of the comics with pheromones etc) only for it to of course all go wrong. The outcome leaving both the Engineer race and Weyland-Yutanis fate uncertain.

The films can then break off and do their own thing again even if its prequels set in modern times or even earlier or more future styles films.

Would be a tricky adventure but if done right it leaves fans of most of the films happy as their exisiting films dont really change, with the trend of shared film universes being set up. Personally I'd be okay with the more crazy shared universe adventures to be in a animated or tv series format where fans can regard them as soft cannon if they dont like them or even disregard them.

Do you guys think Disney would try something like this or more likely to previous films are all soft cannon bar the original Alien and Predator films and here is our version of their universe?

-TJ88

SM

No, I do not think Disney would try something like this.

Thunderjack88

Quote from: SM on Mar 15, 2020, 09:31:31 PM
No, I do not think Disney would try something like this.

I agree they are more likely just going to expand on the existing Alien and Predator films but was fun to think up the most outlandish scenario.
I feel like to make it a shared universe it needs another franchise or at least they need to add something to make it more than a VS universe.
The Monsterverse was always set for Godzilla vs Kong but they added Monarch and the other Kaijus in a setting that fleshed them out, I'd hate for there just to be a AvP set up where we never really get a winner. Maybe the Marines should get a elite group that can really be a 3rd contender rather than fodder?
-TJ88

PAS Spinelli

I hope they scrap everything except Alien, Aliens, Predator-The Predator+Hunting Grounds fixes to the shitty retcons and Alien Isolation
Completely ignore the prequels and never try to explore where the Xenos come from ever again

TurokSwe

I'm suspecting, based on how Disney's been currently dealing with the Alien/Predator franchise, that they're going to operate on a general rule where essentially the twelve films we already have (with a possible particular focus on the two AVP films) will be the base for the Disney canon and that they will add the comics and more expanded universe material surrounding this base canon and expanding outward from there.

Nightmare Asylum

But as it stands, the AVP films and the Alien prequels are incompatible.

SM

Disney doesn't seem to be 'currently dealing' with anything.

Nightmare Asylum

Yeah, I don't think there's a single new project in the pipeline (outside of the Marvel stuff) that isn't a holdover from the transition where Disney was acquiring Fox.

Beyond the Marvel stuff, the only thing Disney/20th Century Studios seems to have explicitly "dealt with" is killing that AVP Netflix anime project.

TurokSwe

Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 01, 2020, 01:32:30 PM
But as it stands, the AVP films and the Alien prequels are incompatible.

Not true in the slightest.


Quote from: SM on Nov 01, 2020, 04:03:59 PM
Disney doesn't seem to be 'currently dealing' with anything.

I don't know what that's supposed to mean.

Nightmare Asylum

Nightmare Asylum

#11
Quote from: TurokSwe on Nov 01, 2020, 07:27:21 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 01, 2020, 01:32:30 PM
But as it stands, the AVP films and the Alien prequels are incompatible.

Not true in the slightest.

"No one understands the lonely perfection of my dreams. I found perfection here. I've created it. A perfect organism."

Quote from: TurokSwe on Nov 01, 2020, 07:27:21 PM
Quote from: SM on Nov 01, 2020, 04:03:59 PM
Disney doesn't seem to be 'currently dealing' with anything.

I don't know what that's supposed to mean.

Disney/20th Century Studios have done nothing at all to date to establish any new stance on "canon" beyond what we already had prior to the acquisition, which three distinct franchises in "Alien/Prometheus," "Predator," and "AVP." The only things Disney/20th Century Studios have really done in their time since acquiring the properties is kill off the only AVP project that was in development (the Netflix anime) and move Alien/Predator from Dark Horse to Marvel.  Everything else, like Dark Horse and Titan's output, the upcoming video game, etc. is all holdover from pre-acquisition.

TurokSwe

TurokSwe

#12
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 01, 2020, 07:34:35 PM"No one understands the lonely perfection of my dreams. I found perfection here. I've created it. A perfect organism."

"Oh captain." David shake his head sadly. "Acknowledge beauty when you see it. Even if it's appearance disturbs you, surely you could admire the skill that went into its design. In case you were wondering, I had nothing to do with it. It lies as I found it, a supreme example of the Engineers' skill. And also, I suppose of their hubris. Would that I could create something so perfect in its function, he added. I try, but I don't have thousands of years of practice at biological and genetic engineering. I only have my pitiable programming on which to draw. That, and 10 years of earnest effort on my own behalf. I have learned only a little, yet a soldier on, hoping all ways to achieve something like this, always striving to do better, to improve. That's what the engineers did, I suppose. That is what someone playing God should do." Further noting; https://sites.google.com/view/xenoversecenter/xenoblog/2020-archive/on-the-problem-of-david-and-the-alien

Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 01, 2020, 07:34:35 PMDisney/20th Century Studios have done nothing at all to date to establish any new stance on "canon" beyond what we already had prior to the acquisition, which three distinct franchises in "Alien/Prometheus," "Predator," and "AVP." The only things Disney/20th Century Studios have really done in their time since acquiring the properties is kill off the only AVP project that was in development (the Netflix anime) and move Alien/Predator from Dark Horse to Marvel.  Everything else, like Dark Horse and Titan's output, the upcoming video game, etc. is all holdover from pre-acquisition.

I didn't exactly suggest they had done much to begin with, but I'm more talking about how they've spoken about it and the little things they have done thus far. Noting of course (as we have discussed enough already, and which I'm sure you don't want to get into again) that there's no justifiable grounds for asserting the existence of supposedly "three distinct franchises with Alien/Prometheus, Predator, and AVP" but this is still merely hearsay which is contradicted by their products, not acknowledged by their fanbase, as well as logically incoherent (with a few more notes regarding personal integrity of the source of the rumor that are better left ignored), regardless how you feel about it, and you will find no ally in me in this regard and continually insisting upon said rumor will be evidently ineffective and pointless because of these reasons.

Nightmare Asylum

Alan Dean Foster is also the man that tried to change the events of Alien 3 in his novelization because he didn't like the movie; I'd hardly consider his book's stance on the matter of David creating the Alien a final word on the subject, especially when it doesn't line up with any draft of the script that he might have been working off of. Even the way it was written in the book, it reads like nothing more than some snarky aside from ADF trying to poke a hole in a part of the movie that he didn't like.

TurokSwe

Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 01, 2020, 08:20:29 PM
Alan Dean Foster is also the man that tried to change the events of Alien 3 in his novelization because he didn't like the movie; I'd hardly consider his book's stance on the matter of David creating the Alien a final word on the subject, especially when it doesn't line up with any draft of the script that he might have been working off of. Even the way it was written in the book, it reads like nothing more than some snarky aside from ADF trying to poke a hole in a part of the movie that he didn't like.

Suit yourself, but I rest my case.

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