Archive => Archive => The Predator Speculation => Topic started by: Corporal Hicks on Jun 30, 2015, 12:11:44 PM
Title: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jun 30, 2015, 12:11:44 PM
With Terminator Genisys now out in cinemas around the world, Arnold Schwarzenegger has been making the rounds at various events to promote the film. During a special preview screening of Terminator Genisys he did a Q&A with various redditors. At one point he was asked about Shane Black’s upcoming Predator 4.
Schwarzenegger said that he hadn’t be contacted about Predator 4 and he didn’t know anything about the upcoming sequel. He did express confidence in Shane Black’s writing though and disappointment in the sequels that followed Predator.
I’d certainly love to see Arnold Schwarzenegger make a return to the Predator franchise. What about you guys and girls? Thanks to Doctor_Foster for the news.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 30, 2015, 12:24:08 PM
Though many fans are probably not too keen for Arnold returning to be in another Predator movie specifically due to his age, I'd be more than happy to welcome Arnold's return seeing as he really encapsulates someone who could take on a Predator and come out alive. The following Predator sequel are by no means bad but many would agree with Arnold that no sequel has quite reached the level of greatness that the original movie delivered. I heard of script written by Sam Park titled Predator the deadlier of the species. It was meant to take place in New York during a blizzard where a Predator would be hunting Dutch, seems like a missed opportunity.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jun 30, 2015, 12:34:12 PM
I think Arnie would be able to fit in in advisory role pretty easily. Doesn't have to be an action role - and even then, he's still capable of that.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Mike on Jun 30, 2015, 12:48:03 PM
I loved all 3 Predator movies and I think Avp is good as we'll. the 2nd not so much. But I think the 1st 3 Predator movies are all gold. Some will argue that Predators was more or less a copy of the 1st which I totally totally disagree with. I loved Predators as it put a new fresh take on the franchise and kept it going and still had a lot in common with the 1st. Predators was just so awsome and a really badass movie of Predators fighting Predators. I love the way the atmosphere was done. That intense feeling of knowing these enemy Predators are lurking near bye and you have to get to somewhere safe. Predators was too awsome. It did it's job by keeping the franchise going and being a awsome badass movie regardless and you have to give credit to that
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jun 30, 2015, 12:56:04 PM
He'd be great to see in a military veteran role, again. However, I'm not sure it would be a good idea, at all, for him to reprise that particular role.
None of the other Predators would know who he is and they don't seem to be into revenge if the opponent won, fair and square, anyway.
On the other side of the equation, Dutch seemed very much against getting involved with intelligence services and the like - who would have probably already got all the interviews they needed out of him by now.
Also, his salary would be better spent on other aspects of the project. :)
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Mike on Jun 30, 2015, 01:12:07 PM
I want to see all 3 badasses return! Major Dutch! Lt Harrigan! And Mercanary Royce! 3 of the most awsome characters ever put on screen. In a way it's kinda cool the way Predator 2 turned out with a new star because the sequel created another new badass to the Predator team and I think that's what sparked another! New badass! In Mercanary Royce! All 3 films are very unique as it's a franchise that was bald to stay alive by also createing new characters and not using the same star that all sequels use in that formula to warrant successful movies. But I would love to see Dutch back would be really cool!
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: blood. on Jun 30, 2015, 02:11:37 PM
I can just imagine old Dutch being some dark mysterious recluse completely withdrawn from society that the team / main character of the new film seeks out to try and discover how to beat it. Old Dutch could still be a badass, hunting in the mountains or something, just using a knife to kill grizzlys or something lol. Just don't put him against a predator again. Please.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: Valaquen on Jun 30, 2015, 02:28:31 PM
I've heard that he's the best thing about the new Terminator. He could do very well, though probably not in a lead role. I'd settle for a cameo, really, I like how each film introduced a new cast of characters,
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jun 30, 2015, 02:44:44 PM
I could easily buy him hunting down the Predators or working towards that end. I'd be happy to see him in some advisory role towards a team working to track the Predators. Similar to how he was originally going to be in Predator 2 but without the doing it to steal the Predator tech.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: RakaiThwei on Jun 30, 2015, 02:46:14 PM
I'm gonna have to watch this later on because I am at the library and the floor I'm one doesn't have head phones. So.. what time frame does he talk about the Predator movies at?
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯 on Jun 30, 2015, 02:51:05 PM
Cameo as the president of the United States plz.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jun 30, 2015, 02:51:17 PM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jun 30, 2015, 02:46:14 PM I'm gonna have to watch this later on because I am at the library and the floor I'm one doesn't have head phones. So.. what time frame does he talk about the Predator movies at?
I thought I'd got the video to start at the right time but it's about 12.00 to 14.00
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 30, 2015, 03:08:03 PM
His summary is essentially that Predator 2 was supposedly rushed into production, also he was unhappy with some of the creative decisions and he opted to instead star in Terminator 2 "which honestly was the right career choice because Terminator 2 is considered by many his greatest performance"
His remarks are that he feels that none of the Predator sequels "and by that he's referring to all of them from Predator 2, Alien vs Predator, Aliens vs Predator Requiem and Predators" he feels that none of them has measured up as being as equally as satisfying at the original movie.
He starred in the first film then it became a franchise that no longer centered on his character, so one might assume that part of his judgment is that he never got to participate in any of the sequels or that they failed to make an impression on him. But hey it a matter of opinion.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jun 30, 2015, 04:02:06 PM
Quote from: Mike on Jun 30, 2015, 01:12:07 PM I want to see all 3 badasses return! Major Dutch! Lt Harrigan! And Mercanary Royce! 3 of the most awsome characters ever put on screen. In a way it's kinda cool the way Predator 2 turned out with a new star because the sequel created another new badass to the Predator team and I think that's what sparked another! New badass! In Mercanary Royce! All 3 films are very unique as it's a franchise that was bald to stay alive by also createing new characters and not using the same star that all sequels use in that formula to warrant successful movies. But I would love to see Dutch back would be really cool!
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Weylan on Jun 30, 2015, 04:51:42 PM
All great, but personal opinion:
Predator 2>Predator>Predators>AvP>AvP-R
To me Predator 2 is the ultimate Predator film.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jun 30, 2015, 05:22:32 PM
Maybe have him in charge of a privately owned search and rescue team. And because of his past he refused to go anywhere near another jungle and only does urban or desert combat zones thinking the preds only come to the jungle. Then he finds himself smack dab in the middle of yet another predator hunting spree in the middle of Afghanistan or someplace just as harsh. That would be a plot I would like to see.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: The Alien Predator on Jun 30, 2015, 05:56:33 PM
"Lissen to mee, wot you need tuh doo ees covah yoursehlf in muhd! Don't carry whepuns! Eet dident keel Anna becaz she waz not ahmed!"
*Predator playback* "Hasta la vista, baby!"
"GET DAHWN! DO EET NAOOUURGH!"
I would love to see Ahnuld return, as you said, he'd pick perfectly as an advisor. Heck, he could return for an interrogation scene where the government is trying to find out more about what he knows on the Predators.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: RakaiThwei on Jun 30, 2015, 07:35:39 PM
I'm surprised Arnold doesn't consider any of the Predator movies to be worthy after the first. Well, I knew that he didn't like Predator 2, and and I sort of figured the same for the AVPs, but I would've thought he liked PREDATORS.. Huh.. :-\
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Ash 937 on Jun 30, 2015, 07:48:22 PM
What are they waiting for? Arnold hasn't necessarily been burning up the box office since he got out of public office. I'm sure that his going price is considerably less than what it was in the 1990's (minus inflation, of course).
If I were Shane Black, I would've contacted Arnold yesterday.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: THE CITY HUNTER on Jun 30, 2015, 09:49:52 PM
Enough of Arnie, what makes a good predator is the suspense and the investigation like imagine Arnie in predator 2 he know how the predator works you can imagine him telling the whole city to wipe shit all over themselves from the sewer to cover up their heat or imagine RJ in THE THING knowing how it works so he gets everyone blood sample.It is not Ripley in Aliens who has the character build up.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jun 30, 2015, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: THE CITY HUNTER on Jun 30, 2015, 09:49:52 PM Enough of Arnie, what makes a good predator is the suspense and the investigation like imagine Arnie in predator 2 he know how the predator works you can imagine him telling the whole city to wipe shit all over themselves from the sewer to cover up their heat or imagine RJ in THE THING knowing how it works so he gets everyone blood sample.It is not Ripley in Aliens who has the character build up.
I disagree. Not all predators act the same. Their hunting prowess is much like their personalities. Each is different. And as far as arnie I think he would do well in another film. Not as an investigator but more a passing role. A "I tried to avoid this but you woke a sleeping giant" role. Something like maybe he avoided the CIA, NSA, and other agencies trying to debrief him about his run in. He's been off the grid for quite awhile and is suddenly tracked down by an agency after a containment team fails to capture a predator and gets pinned down and his brother gets caught in the middle of it. I feel like it would be a very powerful plot detail if they could set it to where dutch was overly shaken up by his near death experience. Living off the grid, avoiding large cities, drinking, sleep deprived, and on the verge of loosing his sanity. He completely avoids anywhere there is conflict. A total recluse. And then after his feeble attempt of moving on and forgetting the past. He is then tracked down and fearing for his brothers life he faces the demon from his dreams yet again. Only this time there's no mud to hide his heat signature...
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 01, 2015, 12:43:54 AM
Ripley got a shitload of character development in her second film. More than the first.
As for Dutch, he was already debriefed (and probably had every motivation in the world to give as much information as he could remember). He has no reason to be in another story except for blatant fan-service and that's exactly why it would feel forced.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Kel G 426 on Jul 01, 2015, 07:08:17 AM
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 01, 2015, 07:22:34 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 01, 2015, 12:43:54 AM As for Dutch, he was already debriefed (and probably had every motivation in the world to give as much information as he could remember). He has no reason to be in another story except for blatant fan-service and that's exactly why it would feel forced.
Not at all. He could fit very easily into a story. There's quite a lot you could do with his character.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 01, 2015, 11:45:52 AM
Nothing which couldn't be done just as well by a new character.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 01, 2015, 11:55:39 AM
Granted. But bringing the actual Dutch in, without replicating the backstory for a new character, brings some weight in. And some over-arcing continuity which the Predator films lack.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: THE CITY HUNTER on Jul 01, 2015, 12:22:34 PM
Granted. But bringing the actual Dutch in, without replicating the backstory for a new character, brings some weight in. And some over-arcing continuity which the Predator films lack.
Maybe like predator 2 is that dutch is Peter Keyes and you see him in the point of Harrigan and instead of the showdown between him and THE CITY HUNTER ;) you seem Arnold vs THE CITY HUNTER
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 01, 2015, 12:53:05 PM
As for Dutch, he was already debriefed (and probably had every motivation in the world to give as much information as he could remember). He has no reason to be in another story except for blatant fan-service and that's exactly why it would feel forced.
What is it with you and fan service.... Everytime someone mentions tying in a previous movie to an upcoming movie 9r adding an element in that could tie the two together that all you have to say is "no...then it would just be fan service." You do realize the point of doing sequels IS fan service. The original is put out to test the waters and see how much money they can make. Then if it's liked they do a sequel banking on FANS returning to see yet another film. If it weren't for the fans they wouldn't do a sequel. There are several films that had plans of sequels and because the first one tanked there were no others produced. Fans dictate the length of a film franchise....not continuity. Yes continuity is important but when its all said and done its about money...thus fan service is the ultimate plot point to any sequel. So my question is why complain about fan service. Did you not seek out this forum and join because you are a "fan"? Do you not read the novels and watch the older movies repeatedly because you're a fan? I hated economics in college you don't see me picking up an economic digest today. But I loved the alien and predator films and I'll sit and watch them over over. As well as read the novels. Food for thought.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: DUB1 on Jul 01, 2015, 01:21:41 PM
No to Arnie coming back. The Predator doesn't need to be stuck with it's own Ripley. If any familiar characters return though, I'd rather they be Lex, Isabella or Royce.
And why are people constantly bringing up Arnie's opinion of P2? Does it influence their opinion of it?
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 01, 2015, 01:55:03 PM
Again, I thought the original idea of having him fulfil the Keyes role in Predator 2 had merit. Would be fun to see Dutch twisted into some kind of Ahab by his experiences, consumed with hatred for the Predators. Could probably still get away with casting him in a part like that, so long as it didn't involve him punching a Predator in the face.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 01, 2015, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: DUB1 on Jul 01, 2015, 01:21:41 PM No to Arnie coming back. The Predator doesn't need to be stuck with it's own Ripley. If any familiar characters return though, I'd rather they be Lex, Isabella or Royce.
And why are people constantly bringing up Arnie's opinion of P2? Does it influence their opinion of it?
I remember Isabella and Royse but don't recall lex. Can you remind me of who this is and what film they were in.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 01, 2015, 02:00:53 PM
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 01, 2015, 02:10:16 PM
Ahh ok. Sorry wasn't thinking about avp series. Thank you for clearing that up. And yeah I agree it would be kinda interesting to see her in another film. If nothing more than a simple "hey whatever happened to..." reference.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: Ratchetcomand on Jul 01, 2015, 07:17:23 PM
Arnold does not have the same star power that he once he did in the 80's, 90's and even the early 2000's. I can see why Fox is still thinking about having him back as Dutch. His recent movies like The Last Stand, Escape Plan and Sabotage (his lowest grossing movie in 30 years since Red Sonja) did poorly at the box office. Even Maggie does not have a major release in theaters. I feel like Predator is a franchise where it can do just fine without Dutch unlike the Alien series.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 01, 2015, 08:04:55 PM
Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Jul 01, 2015, 07:17:23 PM Arnold does not have the same star power that he once he did in the 80's, 90's and even the early 2000's. I can see why Fox is still thinking about having him back as Dutch. His recent movies like The Last Stand, Escape Plan and Sabotage (his lowest grossing movie in 30 years since Red Sonja) did poorly at the box office. Even Maggie does not have a major release in theaters. I feel like Predator is a franchise where it can do just fine without Dutch unlike the Alien series.
I wouldn't say he doesn't have the same star power. I think it's just the matter of films he is doing. I feel like people today more look at the plot or synopsis of the movie as opposed to who's in it now. I've seen movies with pretty much no name cast that do well in the theaters because of the plot. Whereas a film like last stand or sabotage really doesn't appeal to mainstream movie goers. Not to mention he really hasn't had great luck with any movie where he's been a cop. Think raw deal or red heat. Definitely not his best films. Sure they did ok but nowhere near the extent of his other roles like terminator series, conan series, or predator. I just feel like people are going to see the movie because of what it is not who's in it. I don't know anyone who went to see American sniper because it had Bradley cooper in it. Or jurassic world because it had chris pratt.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 01, 2015, 11:46:41 PM
I saw Jurassic world because Chris Pratt was in it... Not because of the movie plot/synopsis. Lol
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 01, 2015, 11:50:26 PM
So you're saying you look at what's in theaters and your movie selection is based on the actor and not the film itself..... are you're saying that you wouldn't have went to see the movie if pratt wasn't in it?
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 02, 2015, 03:42:04 AM
Normally I base my movie preferences on the plot...
... Jurassic world's plot didn't impress me or intrigue me in the least. I only went to see it because it had Chris Pratt, Bryce Dallas howard, and I was lucky enough to see it free so it didn't cost me a thing...
... Did I like the move? No, not really. It had its moments, but far from a great movie like alien, aliens, and predator.
Only reason I mentioned that was because I found it funny that you used Jurassic world and Chris Pratt as an example, and that happen to literally be one of the reasons I decided to go see that one. Was it the main reason? Nope! Free was the main reason.
Otherwise, yea I completely agree with you on that one. Lol. :-)
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 02, 2015, 07:28:16 AM
Oh, definitely! And it has been doing that since the first sequel. I just think Dutch could slot easily back into the franchise and be done without being a completely contrivance.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 02, 2015, 11:09:26 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 01, 2015, 11:55:39 AM Granted. But bringing the actual Dutch in, without replicating the backstory for a new character, brings some weight in. And some over-arcing continuity which the Predator films lack.
If there's a reason, sure. But most of the ideas revolving around Dutch returning seem to amount to it being a good idea because... Dutch returns. There needs to be more of a reason for it than just pure nostalgia.
Quote from: THE CITY HUNTER on Jul 01, 2015, 12:22:34 PM Maybe like predator 2 is that dutch is Peter Keyes and you see him in the point of Harrigan and instead of the showdown between him and THE CITY HUNTER ;) you seem Arnold vs THE CITY HUNTER
That was apparently the original plan for the second film, but I'm relieved it didn't happen. Keyes was not a very well-written character. Very superficial.
Quote from: pred169 on Jul 01, 2015, 12:53:05 PM What is it with you and fan service.... Everytime someone mentions tying in a previous movie to an upcoming movie 9r adding an element in that could tie the two together that all you have to say is "no...then it would just be fan service."
I have?
QuoteYou do realize the point of doing sequels IS fan service.
The point of sequels is to generate money. :) Fox doesn't care if the creative team involved are fans or not. They don't even care if some of that money comes from pre-existing fans or not, so long as a profit is there.
QuoteThe original is put out to test the waters and see how much money they can make. Then if it's liked they do a sequel banking on FANS returning to see yet another film. If it weren't for the fans they wouldn't do a sequel. There are several films that had plans of sequels and because the first one tanked there were no others produced. Fans dictate the length of a film franchise....not continuity. Yes continuity is important but when its all said and done its about money...thus fan service is the ultimate plot point to any sequel. So my question is why complain about fan service. Did you not seek out this forum and join because you are a "fan"? Do you not read the novels and watch the older movies repeatedly because you're a fan? I hated economics in college you don't see me picking up an economic digest today. But I loved the alien and predator films and I'll sit and watch them over over. As well as read the novels. Food for thought.
Fans are seen as 'loosely dependable' income (and of possible assistance in generating publicity hype), but a studio generally aims a sequel at casual film-goers. That's where the real money is to be found. Their view is that if they're lucky enough to recruit new fans, that's what the merchandise sales are there for.
Very few properties have enough active fans to be able to rely upon them to generate profit. A studio generally has to look well beyond them. Even then, most will just be casual fans who happen to think favourably of something, rather than dedicated hardcore folk who are busy on Internet forums and vacuuming up action figures and stuff.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 01, 2015, 01:55:03 PM Again, I thought the original idea of having him fulfil the Keyes role in Predator 2 had merit. Would be fun to see Dutch twisted into some kind of Ahab by his experiences, consumed with hatred for the Predators. Could probably still get away with casting him in a part like that, so long as it didn't involve him punching a Predator in the face.
See, that's where we'd differ. That whole subtext of animosity/disrespect for Dillon getting involved in that side of it, makes me think Dutch going down that road would be very out of character.
I also see him as having enough military experience and common sense to not be fooled into a vengeance crusade. He didn't have a hate-on for Russians/whoever. He'd been in lots of covert operations. He'd know that, even if Predators are periodically coming to this planet, the one which took out his crew is dead.
Consultation role? I don't see that being offered to him. Anything valuable he knew of (which was very little) would have been dealt with in debriefing - they already detailed that during the second film.
If anything, they probably already had access to a number of military specialists who have also encountered the things, well before he ever did. Probably decades before. If they're often sighted during combat with enough history to be regarded as legends, that seems highly likely.
Anyway, why even set it in the modern day? It could be set in the past. They could even play with the legendary aspect and do a twist on 'The Keep', with Nazi personnel on one of their many hunts for occult assets. There is even the in-built historical accuracy of them having expeditions to places like South America. Even wrap it into the old long-persisting rumours about them having had access to a crashed UFO. All sorts of possibilities.
To me, there isn't any real need for Dutch to feature in another story, because it wouldn't do anything to drive the story forward. Predators wouldn't know/care about him, he's the polar opposite of an obsessed Ahab personality and he seemed to find the intelligence community and politics as unlikeable (at best).
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 02, 2015, 11:25:54 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 02, 2015, 11:09:26 AMSee, that's where we'd differ. That whole subtext of animosity/disrespect for Dillon getting involved in that side of it, makes me think Dutch going down that road would be very out of character.
But that would be the point. The experience with the Predator, of seeing his whole team butchered in such unspeakable ways, was so scarring it flipped him out. I quite like that idea. Plus it would be a neat twist to have the hero of one film become the villain of the next. You don't see that too often.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 02, 2015, 12:45:36 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 02, 2015, 11:09:26 AMSee, that's where we'd differ. That whole subtext of animosity/disrespect for Dillon getting involved in that side of it, makes me think Dutch going down that road would be very out of character.
But that would be the point. The experience with the Predator, of seeing his whole team butchered in such unspeakable ways, was so scarring it flipped him out. I quite like that idea. Plus it would be a neat twist to have the hero of one film become the villain of the next. You don't see that too often.
I'm kinda in the middle here. I don't feel like the experience would have made him go ahab. He was the leader of a military rescue team. He's probably seen tons of butchered comrades and soldiers. That being said I like the idea of him maybe flipping out a little. Let's say he leaves the military joins a privately owned paramility rescue group. Goes on a mission in Afghanistan or some desert based area. He thought they were only attracted to jungle warfare. In the process of completing the mission he happens to run into another that's drawn to all the killing. Seeing a dead body strung up he has a flashback. Then finding another with his head and spine ripped out he realizes... it's another. That causes him to flip out and hunt IT before it can kill his new team. Could work.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 02, 2015, 07:40:33 PM
If he was going to snap, it would've happened when he yelled for the girl to get to the helicopter. That was when the last of his comrades was sniped.
He didn't. He kept a level head on his shoulders. Worked out a battle plan. Went about it in a sane way - and when he had a chance to inflict pure revenge... He tossed the rock away. All he was left with was morbid curiosity about a totally beaten opponent.
Meeting one by accident and knowing what he's up against? Sure. But having two encounters in his lifetime would strike me as a little too coincidental.
Like I wrote earlier, Arnold's alarmingly high salary would be a lot better used on other aspects of a production. :)
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 02, 2015, 08:36:37 PM
He didn't. He kept a level head on his shoulders. Worked out a battle plan. Went about it in a sane way - and when he had a chance to inflict pure revenge... He tossed the rock away. All he was left with was morbid curiosity about a totally beaten opponent.
Meeting one by accident and knowing what he's up against? Sure. But having two encounters in his lifetime would strike me as a little too coincidental.
Like I wrote earlier, Arnold's alarmingly high salary would be a lot better used on other aspects of a production. :)
I agree on the salary. I'm just throwing out ideas. However I disagree with the timing of a snap. Most military and law enforcement officers are trained to just react. It's called muscle memory. That very well could explain the fact that he didn't snap during poncho being sniped. As far as him dropping the rock at that point he was probably so mentally exhausted that he just stared in awe. And it's not unheard of for war vets to suddenly snap down the road when confronted with a similar situation. In fact it's actually very common. Sometimes In extreme life or death situations it puts so much strain on the mind that it simply can't handle dealing with that shock on a repeated basis (night terrors and visions). The best option then is to simply try to block the thoughts or visions. This is known as repressed memories. Once repressed they are completely forgotten until some certain event triggers a response. (a Jumpstart if you will). Once that floodgate gets opened its just an overflow of emotions. Usually so extreme that a person can't handle it and either dies from a cardiac event, a stroke, or they commit suicide. So yeah.... he could very well have another run in and the shock of it cause him to go off the deep end. Sorry to sound like a therapist or doctor it's just the flipping out thing is a touchy subject for me. Had a friend do a couple of tours in Kuwait. We were in a mall and something happened that triggered some repressed memories and he just....lost it. He ended up committing suicide about a week later cause he couldn't get the images out of his head.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 02, 2015, 08:57:57 PM
I don't think he'd snap until after, when he'd had time to really mull over the situation.
As for timing - yeah, if it was a random encounter and he wasn't purposefully being hunted or if he wasn't trying to track them down, it'd be far too convenient.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 02, 2015, 09:02:44 PM
As for timing - yeah, if it was a random encounter and he wasn't purposefully being hunted or if he wasn't trying to track them down, it'd be far too convenient.
I agree. Timing wise it would be convient at best. But i feel it just depends on if they play it in actual time. As in events happened in the 87 and he runs into one now. Almost 3 decades there's a little wiggle room there.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 02, 2015, 09:14:11 PM
I've always been interested in the idea of a poacher type predator. Something along the lines of: Arnold's or Danny glover's characters being considered off limits for besting the hunters in their respective encounters, but a lone predator breaks the rules and goes after one or both of them because it sees them as the ultimate prey; proven worthy adversaries who've spilled predator blood!
I think that would be an interesting story that could believably bring back multiple characters from the predator films... Although, they sort of did this with predators, and I highly doubt they'd ever be able to bring back both Arnold and/or Danny glover...
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 02, 2015, 09:17:23 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 02, 2015, 09:14:11 PM I've always been interested in the idea of a poacher type predator. Something along the lines of: Arnold's or Danny glover's characters being considered off limits for besting the hunters in their respective encounters, but a lone predator breaks the rules and goes after one or both of them because it sees them as the ultimate prey; proven worthy adversaries who've spilled predator blood!
I think that would be an interesting story that could believably bring back multiple characters from the predator films... Although, they sort of did this with predators, and I highly doubt they'd ever be able to bring back both Arnold and/or Danny glover...
I agree.... that would be an epic plot. I never considered the idea of a poacher style predator or (bad blood). Like a criminal based predator
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 02, 2015, 09:26:18 PM
I think they've had a couple of comics sort of based on this... But I think having it specifically target a character luck Dutch adds some good depth to predator customs/laws...
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 02, 2015, 09:49:41 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 02, 2015, 09:26:18 PM I think they've had a couple of comics sort of based on this... But I think having it specifically target a character luck Dutch adds some good depth to predator customs/laws...
Yes. That is an interesting thought.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: blood. on Jul 03, 2015, 04:21:21 AM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 02, 2015, 09:14:11 PM I've always been interested in the idea of a poacher type predator. Something along the lines of: Arnold's or Danny glover's characters being considered off limits for besting the hunters in their respective encounters, but a lone predator breaks the rules and goes after one or both of them because it sees them as the ultimate prey; proven worthy adversaries who've spilled predator blood!
^ Beat me to it. coming across a predator by chance is one thing, but it happening twice is a stretch... unless the predator actually seeks him out because of his history.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 03, 2015, 09:13:42 AM
Quote from: bloodinthemud on Jul 03, 2015, 04:21:21 AM ^ Beat me to it. coming across a predator by chance is one thing, but it happening twice is a stretch... unless the predator actually seeks him out because of his history.
Or the other way around where Dutch is searching them out.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 03, 2015, 10:03:43 AM
Even if we assume the creature's mask was recording everything, he took it off for the final portion of the combat - and it isn't likely to have survived intact, let alone have been recovered by others of the same species.
They also wouldn't have any way of locating Dutch. That was the biggest flaw with the premise of 'Predators' (and the implied premise of a sub-plot in 'Predator 2', but I try to overlook that as the characters making assumptions). Out in the jungle, his group were the only human-shaped heat blobs for miles around, making it easy to locate and keep tracking them. Look at the quality of the thermal vision... There really wasn't much in the way of fine detail for facial recognition.
They wouldn't have the slightest clue of where to even start looking for the guy.
That's my problem with all of this. I don't feel he'd 'go Ahab', it feels out of chararcter for him to become a Keyes-alike and if he coincidentally happens to run into them again, well... The last is possible, but it would feel forced.
If there isn't a compelling reason for him, specifically, to drive a story forward, then let him be and use a new character.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 03, 2015, 10:20:29 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 03, 2015, 10:03:43 AMEven if we assume the creature's mask was recording everything, he took it off for the final portion of the combat - and it isn't likely to have survived intact, let alone have been recovered by others of the same species.
The novelisation of Predator 2 gets around that by explaining everything the mask records is automatically stored on the Predator's ship, and after he is killed it flew home on autopilot, with those recordings on board.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 03, 2015, 10:03:43 AMThey also wouldn't have any way of locating Dutch. That was the biggest flaw with the premise of 'Predators' (and the implied premise of a sub-plot in 'Predator 2', but I try to overlook that as the characters making assumptions). Out in the jungle, his group were the only human-shaped heat blobs for miles around, making it easy to locate and keep tracking them. Look at the quality of the thermal vision... There really wasn't much in the way of fine detail for facial recognition.
Who ever said visual recognition is the only way they have to track and identify people? The simple fact the Predator in the second film is able to follow Harrigan all over the city and pick him out of a crowd proves they must have some more reliable way of identifying and following individuals.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 03, 2015, 11:58:28 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 03, 2015, 10:20:29 AM The novelisation of Predator 2 gets around that by explaining everything the mask records is automatically stored on the Predator's ship, and after he is killed it flew home on autopilot, with those recordings on board.
Which still only goes up to the point of an unarmed humanoid heat blob clearly about to be beaten into a bloody pulp and gutted. Why would they assume Dutch was the one responsible?
QuoteWho ever said visual recognition is the only way they have to track and identify people? The simple fact the Predator in the second film is able to follow Harrigan all over the city and pick him out of a crowd proves they must have some more reliable way of identifying and following individuals.
That's why I mentioned I try to overlook that as the characters making assumptions. The Predators, themselves, don't have any way to do it. Even if one or more was constantly looking at him, the moment he entered a building (like the police station he's often going into, surrounded by dozens, if not hundreds of other personnel, including criminals they're hauling in for questioning), they'd lose him.
Look at those heat signatures. They're really vague. There's nothing about his outline which makes him more recognisable than anyone else - and there are a lot of people in Los Angeles.
And there's nothing else the Predators are shown to be doing to track him.
The writers intended for them to be doing so, but it's all hand-waved without any explanation, whatsoever. I don't buy it.
And that problem is overblown by several magnitude when we're talking about trying to track down Dutch several decades after he's had an encounter. :) Even a human group of specialists would be needing to employ the kind of detective skills Predators wouldn't! You won't exactly see them politely knocking on doors and telephoning/E-mailing past associates...
Predators are great for tracking down prey in their immediate vicinity or on an exotic safari. A bit rubbish for tracking down a single human in a massive city.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 03, 2015, 01:09:52 PM
They clearly do, because that's exactly what the Predator does in the second film. Unless you're suggesting it just casually happens upon Harrigan and/or his mates by chance whenever it catches up with them.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 03, 2015, 11:58:28 AMEven if one or more was constantly looking at him, the moment he entered a building (like the police station he's often going into, surrounded by dozens, if not hundreds of other personnel, including criminals they're hauling in for questioning), they'd lose him.
And yet the Predator finds Leona and Jerry on the subway no problem. Or are you suggesting that's another (practically impossible) coincidence?
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 03, 2015, 11:58:28 AMLook at those heat signatures. They're really vague. There's nothing about his outline which makes him more recognisable than anyone else - and there are a lot of people in Los Angeles.
But who says their physical sight is the only factor at play? The Predators have all kinds of tech in their masks, who's to say there isn't something there that helps them identify individuals? Can you read Predator? We have no idea what the text that's constantly appearing on their HUD actually says. Maybe they can detect individuals by scent?
The fact is, we simply don't know enough to say they can't track people with accuracy over great distances, especially when at least one of the films shows that they certainly can, even in the midst of one of the biggest, busiest cities on Earth.
Even if it makes no sense in reality, in the world of the films, they have that ability.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 03, 2015, 01:48:30 PM
They clearly do, because that's exactly what the Predator does in the second film. Unless you're suggesting it just casually happens upon Harrigan and/or his mates by chance whenever it catches up with them.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 03, 2015, 11:58:28 AMEven if one or more was constantly looking at him, the moment he entered a building (like the police station he's often going into, surrounded by dozens, if not hundreds of other personnel, including criminals they're hauling in for questioning), they'd lose him.
And yet the Predator finds Leona and Jerry on the subway no problem. Or are you suggesting that's another (practically impossible) coincidence?
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 03, 2015, 11:58:28 AMLook at those heat signatures. They're really vague. There's nothing about his outline which makes him more recognisable than anyone else - and there are a lot of people in Los Angeles.
But who says their physical sight is the only factor at play? The Predators have all kinds of tech in their masks, who's to say there isn't something there that helps them identify individuals? Can you read Predator? We have no idea what the text that's constantly appearing on their HUD actually says. Maybe they can detect individuals by scent?
The fact is, we simply don't know enough to say they can't track people with accuracy over great distances, especially when at least one of the films shows that they certainly can, even in the midst of one of the biggest, busiest cities on Earth.
Even if it makes no sense in reality, in the world of the films, they have that ability.
I agree. There are definitely more senses to be used. And the thought of him happening upon Leona and Jerry in THAT city is to far of a reach even for coincidence. I was think along the lines of scent myself. Most hunters use scent to track prey anyway... not vision. And as far as tech I hate to reference such a bomb of a movie but we have seen this in AVPR. He stooped down used some tool to extract some of the liquid in the broken container, injected it into his cpu based gauntlet and it was able to determine what type of creature was in the container. Probably used scent molecules from the liquid. He was then able to track down where the facehuggers went and where the aliens started thier hive. That sounds like scent tracking to me. We use the same tactics for bloodhounds. They pick up scent molecules left behind. I don't see that as much of a reach myself.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 03, 2015, 06:17:29 PM
Xenomorphine - I strongly disagree with you on most of the things you've said.
To start with, body heat is as unique as a finger print, and can be used to see individuals very clearly. They use it as a form of biometrics even! We can't always tell individuals apart in the animal kingdom, like sharks and whales. We have to study their scars and dorsal fins to determine individuals, but if we could see body heat, it would be a lot easier to see individuals across multiple species. Can YOU or I see individuals using body heat? Probably not too easily, but that's how the predator has adapted, so it should be no problem for them. Also, in the first predator, the scene where Dutch and billy are standing next to each other talking while staring out across that clearing... Just before Anna tries to escape. We get a good look at Dutch and billy in thermal vision, and I don't know about you, but I could easily see a difference between the two, and I could clearly tell which one was Arnold.
The predator movies have all relied heavily on tension; tension caused by the characters figuring things out. That light-bulb moment when they realize it's a hunter and not a random psychotic serial killer; it has a purpose to its behavior. The big turning point in all three movies is when that revelation occurs:
"It's using the trees".... "Like a hunter"
"It's on safari..."
"This planet is a game preserve, and we're the game."
You lose that revelation if you re-use characters like Dutch, unless you change the rules. The character might expect the predator to behave like a hunter, but then it does the unexpected because it's an outlaw by its own kind and doesn't follow the rules. That's what I meant by they kind of did this with predators; it was a different species of predator with different tactics and rules. The formula for using all new characters has worked pretty well so far, but if they don't do something different I think the series will become too stagnant. That doesn't mean they have to bring Dutch or harrigan back, but just do something a little different. Predators had a lot of potential, but I don't think they managed to pull it off as well as they could have...
Speaking of predators though... In regards to your comment about the predators wouldn't have a good way to track one person in a whole city... They never provided an explanation, but they must have some way to do it. In predators, they must have been watching topher grace's character for a while to know he was a serial killer, right?
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 03, 2015, 06:40:41 PM
To start with, body heat is as unique as a finger print, and can be used to see individuals very clearly. They use it as a form of biometrics even! We can't always tell individuals apart in the animal kingdom, like sharks and whales. We have to study their scars and dorsal fins to determine individuals, but if we could see body heat, it would be a lot easier to see individuals across multiple species. Can YOU or I see individuals using body heat? Probably not too easily, but that's how the predator has adapted, so it should be no problem for them. Also, in the first predator, the scene where Dutch and billy are standing next to each other talking while staring out across that clearing... Just before Anna tries to escape. We get a good look at Dutch and billy in thermal vision, and I don't know about you, but I could easily see a difference between the two, and I could clearly tell which one was Arnold.
The predator movies have all relied heavily on tension; tension caused by the characters figuring things out. That light-bulb moment when they realize it's a hunter and not a random psychotic serial killer; it has a purpose to its behavior. The big turning point in all three movies is when that revelation occurs:
"It's using the trees".... "Like a hunter"
"It's on safari..."
"This planet is a game preserve, and we're the game."
You lose that revelation if you re-use characters like Dutch, unless you change the rules. The character might expect the predator to behave like a hunter, but then it does the unexpected because it's an outlaw by its own kind and doesn't follow the rules. That's what I meant by they kind of did this with predators; it was a different species of predator with different tactics and rules. The formula for using all new characters has worked pretty well so far, but if they don't do something different I think the series will become too stagnant. That doesn't mean they have to bring Dutch or harrigan back, but just do something a little different. Predators had a lot of potential, but I don't think they managed to pull it off as well as they could have...
Speaking of predators though... In regards to your comment about the predators wouldn't have a good way to track one person in a whole city... They never provided an explanation, but they must have some way to do it. In predators, they must have been watching topher grace's character for a while to know he was a serial killer, right?
I somewhat agree with a person's body heat being uniquely identifiable...but you also have to consider that it cant be 100% accurately tracked. Simply because your body heat can be changed easily. Whether by a virus, cold, fever, something to that nature... Or affected by surrounding environment and temperature. If I run a fever and my core temp goes up by 1 degree then my external body temp can increase as much as 6 degrees. Same with hypothermia. If my core temp drops by 1 degree my external body temp will drop. It's this variance that is the main reason the military dropped thermal vision as a viable identification method. There's just to much that can cause a variance.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 03, 2015, 06:57:54 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 03, 2015, 01:09:52 PM They clearly do, because that's exactly what the Predator does in the second film. Unless you're suggesting it just casually happens upon Harrigan and/or his mates by chance whenever it catches up with them.
That's unfortunately the only way to realistically explain it, given what we know of Predator abilities. There isn't some super-secret tracking device signal showing up on their HUDs or whatever (and if there was, it would have been very useful in that slaughterhouse scene).
It seems like the writing team were projecting human abilities onto these masked hunters, without factoring in their limitations.
QuoteAnd yet the Predator finds Leona and Jerry on the subway no problem. Or are you suggesting that's another (practically impossible) coincidence?
That's more plausible, given how they're actively seeking out a violent crime scene. :) The same logic for why the original Predator latches onto Dutch's team: Wasn't planning for them, but liked what it saw.
Again, look at those vague blobs of heat whenever it looks at Harrigan, Jerry and Leona at range. There is nothing there of any real use to keep track of them in a heavily urban environment.
QuoteBut who says their physical sight is the only factor at play? The Predators have all kinds of tech in their masks, who's to say there isn't something there that helps them identify individuals? Can you read Predator? We have no idea what the text that's constantly appearing on their HUD actually says.
If you can find something in the film which suggests anything like that, be my guest. :) So far as I know, there simply isn't. We see them tracking by thermal and recording voices to lure, but nothing else. No detective work, at all. The only symbology which appears is the voice recorder, from what I recall.
QuoteMaybe they can detect individuals by scent?
That big solid mask is sort of in the way... Also not something they can really employ to find the guy in an entire city. Sure as hell isn't able to be used to find the individual carriage Jerry and his friend were on.
If they can smell a single human's precise location in an entire city (during a time of very hot weather, too), then why couldn't the one in the first film figure out where Dutch was, even when he was under its proverbial nose and heavily sweating? He fooled the thermal and the thing had no clue where he was. Any sense of smell would have registered him (and let's not forget those masks seem vacuum-sealed and require opening air-valves, to take off)
Again, I think the writers meant it to be interpreted in the way you say, but they didn't think the obstacles through well.
QuoteThe fact is, we simply don't know enough to say they can't track people with accuracy over great distances, especially when at least one of the films shows that they certainly can, even in the midst of one of the biggest, busiest cities on Earth.
Even if it makes no sense in reality, in the world of the films, they have that ability.
Sure, we do. Thermal - and that's it. :)
Like I said, an exotic jungle with a small group of soldiers in it and nobody else for miles around? Totally conceivable. Beautifully done. Cities, not so much.
Predators aren't all-knowing godly things. They have very specific tools and none of them have yet demonstrated a way to have been tracking Harrigan, let alone all his friends. I'm honestly not even sure there was enough for the Predators to go on, to figure out he even was friends with them. He's sighted talking with them a few times, but he's seen talking with other people, too. Certainly, Danny went into the Predator's territory - it didn't seek him out.
Engineer: Go and take some screen caps of Harrigan from where the Predator first sees him. They're incredibly vague. It's a real mess. Use that same really vague blob of heat to pin-point his location over miles of city. You can't do it.
That's the problem they have. It isn't about whether they can potentially identify the same target if it's paraded before them at point-blank range. It's about how they'd find someone over miles and miles of terrain where millions of other humanoid-looking blobs of heat are. Not somewhere, like a jungle, where it's all open-air. It's somewhere with tons of individual buildings and stuff. The problem is even bigger if you're trying to say thermal was used to find Jerry/Leona. It had no way to know they were even using a train, let alone which carriage they were on.
It would, however, have had motivation to around searching for violent kicks, just like they were. Both parties were actively seeking the same situations.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 03, 2015, 07:49:25 PM
I think you missed the point I was trying to make... Yes, they appear as indistinguishable blobs to us, because we aren't adapted to see in the infrared light spectrum. When used in biometrics, computers have to make that distinction for us, since we can't. However, that's how the predator is adapted to see, so I'm sure it can pick out individuals just fine. If a predator were to see the world the way we do, I'm sure they'd say "how can you tell one person from the next? They all look like blobs!!"
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 03, 2015, 09:47:30 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 03, 2015, 07:49:25 PM I think you missed the point I was trying to make... Yes, they appear as indistinguishable blobs to us, because we aren't adapted to see in the infrared light spectrum. When used in biometrics, computers have to make that distinction for us, since we can't. However, that's how the predator is adapted to see, so I'm sure it can pick out individuals just fine. If a predator were to see the world the way we do, I'm sure they'd say "how can you tell one person from the next? They all look like blobs!!"
That's because this is exactly what they are. There was no visual data for a computer to differentiate.
And none of that gets around the problem of him having to be pin-pointed from miles away, among millions of other humanoid signatures, both in and out of different buildings types.
Heat-vision is great for finding targets in general. That suits Predators. What doesn't suit Predators is going on stalker-like detective missions. They're opportunists - and generally quite impatient ones, at that. Heat-vision is fine for what they need, which is looking around their immediate location and finding targets of opportunity.
Besides which, Harrigan really didn't do very much which would have justified them spending days and days and days, stalking around him, yet not bothering to kill. So far as they were concerned, he rushed a barricade and shot a couple of people - in an already massive firefight.
I can see how, in the context of the film, Keyes might have made the assumption Harrigan was the 'lion', but when you look at it from the Predators' perspective? Harrigan's not all that desirable a trophy. He's got a reputation, sure, but that wouldn't be something the Predators are aware of.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: overthere on Jul 04, 2015, 12:58:13 AM
I have this scene in my head where Dutch sees a Predator for whatever reasons and circumstances and the Predator recognizes him and spares him or even shows respect. Dutch never got the treatment Harrigan got, they owe him. Predators wouldn't hunt Dutch again, they'd celebrate him.
Picture this, Predator is hunting again, humans capture the Predator and start examining him while he's all tied up. They call Dutch to verify that's the creature he encountered and while he's at the facility, the Predator escapes and their paths cross. Predator examines him, figures who he is and just leaves him alone, but kills everyone else.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Kel G 426 on Jul 04, 2015, 02:46:52 PM
The pov shots can't be taken too literally. They're mostly meant to just look cool and provide a feeling of paranoia. Ooooh, something is watching them! If you're wondering how predators move about given just what we see on film, then you're overthinking it.
The creature in Predator 2 could obviously identify individuals and stalk them without much effort. He observed Harry during the opening shootout and it probably wasn't the first time he noticed him. He followed Harry to the cemetery and left Danny's necklace to taunt him. He followed him to the meeting with King Willie and subsequently killed the voodoo leader. All this proves that he can not only find and identify individuals, but he understands their status and relationships.
It wouldn't take much "detective" work to find Harry either; just stake out the office where he reports for work every day.
The Predator clearly saw Harry as his lion. The film wanted us to know that.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 04, 2015, 03:31:02 PM
Yes, "too literal" is exactly what I was trying to say...
... Here's another way to explain it. I'm fond of analogies, and I think this is the best analogy for this; think about it like a language. You can have multiple languages and some translate back and forth really well, and some don't translate well at all with a lot of the core message being changed or lost. Vision is the same way. When you look at an image in Infra red or ultraviolet or something, you're not actually seeing in that spectrum, you're seeing a translation of it into the visual light spectrum. Thermal vision or infra red is one of those things that does not translate very well to the visual light spectrum and a lot of the details get lost. As cool as the predator point of view is to see, the truth is that's NOT what the world actually looks like to the predator and you'll never actually know what it's like to see in infra red.
Pin pointing a target from far away really isn't a problem either. We can do it. US military pin points targets in the middle of the desert in Afghanistan with some effort; why wouldn't a technologically advanced species like the predator be able to? In fact, it should be easier for them since they see in infra red and every organism would give off a heat signature as unique as a finger print.
One last comment about their ability to distinguish individuals. The ability build a star ship must take some cooperation among individuals. If they can tell each other apart visually or otherwise, why not us humans? We can clearly see them cooperating with each other and identifying one another as individuals at the end of predator 2. Otherwise, how would they know who was the clan leader? How would they know to stand back and watch the "city hunter" duke it out with harrigan? Or how would they have know it was harrigan, the "city hunter's" lion, and not some other random intruder?
If you still don't buy this, then I leave you with one last argument. To quote Keyes: it's "a f@*#%$g ALIEN!" That's probably the most common argument used on these forums, and borderlines on cliche at this point, plus it's a lazy explanation, but there you have it... :-)
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 05, 2015, 02:13:27 PM
Quote from: Kelgaard on Jul 04, 2015, 02:46:52 PM The pov shots can't be taken too literally. They're mostly meant to just look cool and provide a feeling of paranoia. Ooooh, something is watching them! If you're wondering how predators move about given just what we see on film, then you're overthinking it.
They should be taken literally, IMO. In the same way as the HUD from the 'Terminator' films should be. That's the whole point of showing it. We see the exact same symbology and voice analysis the Predator does. It's designed by the film-makers to be literal.
QuoteThe creature in Predator 2 could obviously identify individuals and stalk them without much effort. He observed Harry during the opening shootout and it probably wasn't the first time he noticed him. He followed Harry to the cemetery and left Danny's necklace to taunt him. He followed him to the meeting with King Willie and subsequently killed the voodoo leader. All this proves that he can not only find and identify individuals, but he understands their status and relationships.
But this is my point. It becomes a circular argument in the absence of any way for it to have happened. The Predators are tracking Harrigan and anyone he knows because... They're doing it.
It's like if a character suddenly turned up at the bottom of the sea without any way to have got there. OK, so the character's there. The writers clearly want us to assume that. But how did the character get there? And if it was impossible, the potential of them being a twin/clone/hologram/whatever becomes just as valid - if not more so.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
It's a very superficial film, but the moment we try to apply the whole Occam's Razor principle, it becomes more likely that the run-ins have to be coincidental, not less.
I know that's not the intent of the writers, but as I can't see any way for the Predator(s) to have been tracking Harrigan, much less also his friends...
QuoteIt wouldn't take much "detective" work to find Harry either; just stake out the office where he reports for work every day.
But that's not how it would work. The moment he gets in a vehicle with other people (as he did to visit the drug baron), they lose track. Hell, every time he goes into a public lavatory, they lose track! There are a lot of people who are going into that police station, every single minute. Any time he goes into somewhere like that, their heat-tracking system is screwed - and that's assuming every building he goes into only has one exit.
Anyone coming out of the vehicle/building he's just gone into, of the same general proportions, could be him, unless you're way up close and personal. That problem is magnified hugely when you also realise the Predator isn't monitoring him 24 hours a day - most of the time it's nowhere near his physical locations. It's not tracking him.
QuoteThe Predator clearly saw Harry as his lion. The film wanted us to know that.
Agreed. The problem is, they don't have any obvious way for them to have tracked him.
Nor did it really show him doing anything particularly worthy of needing to be stalked over many long days... Even El Scorpio showed a bit more ferocity than he did. :)
... Here's another way to explain it. I'm fond of analogies, and I think this is the best analogy for this; think about it like a language. You can have multiple languages and some translate back and forth really well, and some don't translate well at all with a lot of the core message being changed or lost. Vision is the same way. When you look at an image in Infra red or ultraviolet or something, you're not actually seeing in that spectrum, you're seeing a translation of it into the visual light spectrum. Thermal vision or infra red is one of those things that does not translate very well to the visual light spectrum and a lot of the details get lost. As cool as the predator point of view is to see, the truth is that's NOT what the world actually looks like to the predator and you'll never actually know what it's like to see in infra red.
We're seeing whatever they see. That's the point. Even if you're saying there might be slightly different colours, the bottom line is that they don't have enough detail for adequate facial recognition - especially over miles and miles of city.
Thermal is great for locating hot things, in general. Not so great for identifying and verifying individual human beings at excessively long range. Hopelessly useless if you're trying to figure out which train someone is on, down to the exact carriage.
QuotePin pointing a target from far away really isn't a problem either. We can do it. US military pin points targets in the middle of the desert in Afghanistan with some effort; why wouldn't a technologically advanced species like the predator be able to? In fact, it should be easier for them since they see in infra red and every organism would give off a heat signature as unique as a finger print.
The military isn't relying on thermal for the same situation as locating and tracking Harrigan and his few associates. They use a whole lot of methods on top of it.
If there was some kind of signal location device showing up on their HUD, that would at least be something, but there isn't. Even when they have him in view, it's not like the internal computer is specifically highlighting him, Terminator-style, as a priority target.
QuoteOne last comment about their ability to distinguish individuals. The ability build a star ship must take some cooperation among individuals. If they can tell each other apart visually or otherwise, why not us humans? We can clearly see them cooperating with each other and identifying one another as individuals at the end of predator 2. Otherwise, how would they know who was the clan leader? How would they know to stand back and watch the "city hunter" duke it out with harrigan? Or how would they have know it was harrigan, the "city hunter's" lion, and not some other random intruder?
We never saw Predators in one another's HUDs calmly interacting with one another. It's quite possible there could be all sorts of things going on when they do. All we can go by is Harrigan's ridiculously generic blob of heat colour.
Also, they don't have to figure out where one another are over miles of cities. :) They can go up to one another at close range. That isn't an option when they're trying to track Harrigan/Jerry/whoever at an incredibly long range.
QuoteIf you still don't buy this, then I leave you with one last argument. To quote Keyes: it's "a f@*#%$g ALIEN!" That's probably the most common argument used on these forums, and borderlines on cliche at this point, plus it's a lazy explanation, but there you have it... :-)
Well, sure! It's best regarded as a plot-hole, really. It can be debated, but never satisfactorily, because it breaks down when you try to analyse it, like the 'Alien 3' egg.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 05, 2015, 03:47:31 PM
Well, I guess this is the solution you're looking for then:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
-Arthur C. Clark
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 05, 2015, 05:30:49 PM
MAGICAL PREDATORS :o :o :o
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 05, 2015, 06:01:49 PM
I don't see how it's lazy writing at all. The Predator has some way of tracking people. Nothing inherently impossible about that.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Magegg on Jul 05, 2015, 06:15:55 PM
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: worldmaker on Jul 05, 2015, 07:38:03 PM
I'm drafting a spec. script, that will probably never see light of day to reboot with Arnie leading a new team to hunt Predators and open the potential for a new "Predator Wars" TV/movie series. But who's listening to a writer from England?
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 05, 2015, 08:13:40 PM
Lol. If "magical predators" is what you took from that, then sure, they're magical. :-)
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 06, 2015, 10:05:01 AM
The film makes it quite clear that the Predator is tracking Harrigan and so it's quite obvious that they're able to distinguish those blobs of heat. There are more perceptions than just visual and it's quite clear that Predator technology is incredibly advanced. It doesn't take a leap in logic to assume they're capable of distinguishing individuals in some fashion.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: overthere on Jul 06, 2015, 10:53:14 AM
In Predators, people aren't indistinguishable colored blobs. Their faces are clearly seen, just colored differently (which I think looks dumb, but that's another point)
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: DUB1 on Jul 06, 2015, 01:20:45 PM
Another thing is, the thermal POV scenes in the first two movies were shot with infrared cameras of the 80s/90s. Do people really think the Predator's vision was gonna look any better than what the cameras of the past allowed?
I know it's not a in-universe explanation, but it does explain why the the Predator's vision appeared shitty for some people. Personally, I didn't have such a problem telling people apart.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 06, 2015, 05:48:12 PM
Doesn't matter. That's what the original Predators were meant to be seeing (in the same way as the one from 'Requiem' is old and busted).
And even if it did have picture-perfect facial recognition (which it doesn't), that still only helps if the Predator is constantly looking at the guy. :) Even we humans, in our professional intelligence services, need to devote entire teams of several people - at any one simultaneous time - to tracking someone. The thing is wandering around the entire city and periodically going back to base.
Harrigan not only isn't being tracked like that, but he's done nothing to prove himself worthy of it. Ergo, it's bad writing.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 06, 2015, 08:20:51 PM
Just because they don't explicitly show us how the predator is tracking him doesn't mean it can't/didn't. I don't see how it's bad writing; they just left something to the imagination...
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 06, 2015, 08:28:08 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 06, 2015, 08:20:51 PM Just because they don't explicitly show us how the predator is tracking him doesn't mean it can't/didn't. I don't see how it's bad writing; they just left something to the imagination...
Yeah its kinda like the predators diet and feeding habits. We never see it and it only gets discussed once in the 2nd film. Other than that it was left out of scripting. Doesn't mean it wasn't feeding throughout both films. Writers were just focused on other aspects of the film. Them eating just wasn't important to the script.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 06, 2015, 08:29:00 PM
PS. The reason Harrigan was more worthy than the criminals to the predator, in my opinion, is because he not only displayed a violent streak but also because he showed a sense of honor and control that the criminals didn't. For example, he didn't just run in guns blazing and shooting anything that moved; he risked his neck to save fellow officers, and avoided shooting innocent bystanders who were in the area. On the other hand, maybe the predator DID target more worthy prey on the criminal side, hence its showdown with King willie... Or maybe that was the predator's not-so-subtle way of sending harrigan a message considering harrigan was there seconds before King willie bit the dust...
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 06, 2015, 08:38:22 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 06, 2015, 08:20:51 PM Just because they don't explicitly show us how the predator is tracking him doesn't mean it can't/didn't. I don't see how it's bad writing; they just left something to the imagination...
Partly because it runs counter to the far more logical precedent set by the first film. Why was Harrigan so easy to repeatedly find when Dutch (who did a lot more to prove worthy of 'prize trophy' status) wasn't?
Dutch turned the creature's advanced technology against it. That's part of why the story felt quite clever in places. If we're saying Predators can do as they please, 'just because', then they really do start seeming more like magical beings, than something with realistic limitations, IMO.
So, as I say, bad writing/plot-hole. :) That's why I prefer to excuse it by thinking of the run-ins as coincidental.
QuotePS. The reason Harrigan was more worthy than the criminals to the predator, in my opinion, is because he not only displayed a violent streak but also because he showed a sense of honor and control that the criminals didn't. For example, he didn't just run in guns blazing and shooting anything that moved; he risked his neck to save fellow officers, and avoided shooting innocent bystanders who were in the area. On the other hand, maybe the predator DID target more worthy prey on the criminal side, hence its showdown with King willie... Or maybe that was the predator's not-so-subtle way of sending harrigan a message considering harrigan was there seconds before King willie bit the dust...
There weren't any innocents standing in the cross-fire, from what I remember (aside from journalists who were standing way back). From the Predator's POV, all Harrigan did was to use a battering ram approach and out-flank a small group of them - something it seemed to find of only minor interest, considering how it immediately went off to rank up its own body-count. :)
Ramming/out-flanking a small number of opponents doesn't make him worthy of being stalked for days on end. That's less than what the members of Dutch's team did - and the original film's creature stealth-killed them as soon as it could.
KW was another kill I regard as opportunistic: A guy standing around with a big sword. Predators had no way to know of his underworld criminal connections or that he was running a drugs empire.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 06, 2015, 08:53:29 PM
Who ever said the predators can do as the please 'just because'? The fact that harrigan was unable to hide himself from the predator like Dutch just made it much more believable that he could have been tracked for so long. They have obvious limitations, but the films never show us all of the limitations or technological 'wizardry' they have at their disposal; they leave some to the imagination which was far more common in movies in the 80s and 90s as opposed to today.
And there were innocent bystanders nearby. Not exactly in the crossfire, but harrigan and his team barged in on them when searching the building that the criminals retreated to. We never see the criminals shoot any innocent people nearby, but my own interpretation (and that's what this is, MY interpretation, not a solid argument) is that they did at some point while the predator was watching. Plus, we have no idea how long the predator was watching harrigan before it started racking up its own body count... We're assuming harrigan got its attention in the opening shoot out, because that's where the movie starts us at... But Keyes did mention that the predator had been there and kept returning to the meat factory on a regular cycle for a while if I remember correctly...
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 06, 2015, 08:56:56 PM
I honestly can't see why anyone would argue the Predator repeatedly happening upon Harrigan in the second film is blind coincidence rather than the Predator simply having some way of following him around.
That's like arguing planes fly using magic as opposed to physics. It's counter-intuitive.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 06, 2015, 09:15:44 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 06, 2015, 08:56:56 PM I honestly can't see why anyone would argue the Predator repeatedly happening upon Harrigan in the second film is blind coincidence rather than the Predator simply having some way of following him around.
That's like arguing planes fly using magic as opposed to physics. It's counter-intuitive.
To a caveman, it would be magical; that was the point behind posting that Arthur c. Clark quote... :-)
But you're right; I don't see it as coincidental either.
And YES, the first predator was indeed far more clever than any other predator film; I definitely agree with you there xenomorphine! :-)
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 07, 2015, 01:43:35 AM
They want to locate and track a target they have no way of doing so, yet supposedly can do.
That's the same logic.
If Harrigan was somehow being tracked by unknown senses in the mask, then why was it impossible to apply those same abilities to Dutch? That's where all this falls down. If you presume these other abilities exist, then you have to come up with a reason they weren't being employed against Dutch. The fact they weren't, heavily suggests that thermal is their primary and only means to typically locate/track a human target.
QuoteThe fact that harrigan was unable to hide himself from the predator like Dutch just made it much more believable that he could have been tracked for so long.
Incorrect. He was hiding a lot - he just had no idea he needed to. The only way the Predator would have known always where he and his friends were, would be if it had a constant lock - simultaneously - in all three of them. Use thermal on the entire city of LA and tell me how it kept relocating them. Then tell me how it supposedly knew Jerry/Leona were on a specific carriage on a specific speeding train. How was it doing this?
We can even keep it simple and look just at Harrigan's car ride to meet KW. :) How did the Predator know he's the one who got out the smokey vehicle, as opposed to the other heavily-built humanoid shapes? It wasn't exactly seeing through the roof.
QuoteThey have obvious limitations, but the films never show us all of the limitations or technological 'wizardry' they have at their disposal; they leave some to the imagination which was far more common in movies in the 80s and 90s as opposed to today.
The first film showed their limitations. Limitations which would have prevented them knowing where Harrigan was in a city of millions, not to mention his friends, too. That's all the second film had to do - keep in line with those very same limitations.
QuoteAnd there were innocent bystanders nearby. Not exactly in the crossfire, but harrigan and his team barged in on them when searching the building that the criminals retreated to.
If they were inside the building, it wouldn't have known. At that point, it wasn't even observing. It was going to get its own kills.
QuoteWe never see the criminals shoot any innocent people nearby, but my own interpretation (and that's what this is, MY interpretation, not a solid argument) is that they did at some point while the predator was watching. Plus, we have no idea how long the predator was watching harrigan before it started racking up its own body count... We're assuming harrigan got its attention in the opening shoot out, because that's where the movie starts us at... But Keyes did mention that the predator had been there and kept returning to the meat factory on a regular cycle for a while if I remember correctly...
So, like I said, from what we know the Predator saw of the guy, he didn't really do anything more deserving of a prolonged stalk, than any of the guys in the first film. :)
In fact, as it was meant to have been a more reckless creature, that should have singled him out as a kill earlier on, not much later.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 06, 2015, 08:56:56 PM I honestly can't see why anyone would argue the Predator repeatedly happening upon Harrigan in the second film is blind coincidence rather than the Predator simply having some way of following him around.
That's like arguing planes fly using magic as opposed to physics. It's counter-intuitive.
It gets around the plot-hole of not being able to locate him in a city of millions. Especially when the creature is primarily there to look for prey to hunt and kill.
The writers intended for us to realise he was being tracked. The creature's severe limitations, however, mean it had no realistic way to do this.
Like I said, it's the same situation as the magical teleporting egg in 'Alien 3': The writers didn't expect the audience to question it or apply logic, but once you do, it falls down. The egg's very existence doesn't make sense. At that point it becomes perfectly valid to offer up possible alternatives - even though the writers of the film didn't intend us to think of any.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 07, 2015, 03:06:38 AM
Ok, so the predator in the second film was better equipped than the predator in the first film... Or perhaps just equipped differently. Hunters don't always go in to the hunt with the same gear. And this is a trend which was started by the second film and carried through to all other films featuring a predator... The first predator didn't have a smart-disk, or dual shoulder cannons. Perhaps the predator in the second film equipped itself with an urban tracking device of some sort, and we weren't explicitly shown this device (I.e., a Harrigan pheromone tracker or something)... Just conjecture, I know... But you can't rule it out either, since they never explicitly say it didn't have something. And no, I'm not talking about 'magic,' I'm talking about a technology that we may not (yet) understand which is very common in sci fi movies anyway.
I'm still not convinced that the thermal vision was unsuitable for identifying individuals either, even in a city with millions of other potential targets. Or that it was unable to identify Jerry/Leona on a speeding train. It had the capability of using a rock's trajectory to find Dutch after he threw it as a distraction, so it obviously has computational power in that helmet for tracking a moving target or tracing a moving target's trajectory back to its point of origin; I don't think locking on to a train is a huge leap in logic, especially if it watched and knew jerry/Leona had boarded the train already. Nor do I think it's a huge leap in logic that the helmet couldn't assist in pointing out a target it marked for tracking by using biometrics or some other light spectrum aside from thermal IF it truly was unable to tell the individuals apart for itself; again it can't be ruled out because they don't explicitly say it can't even though they never explicitly show it can either.
As for how it knew harrigan was the guy who stepped out of the car, maybe it was his hair cut that gave him away there (lol, jk). Seriously, though, it could have been anything, possibly voice recognition as he spoke to the driver after exiting the vehicle.
Backtracking a little bit, let's go back to your Spock quote:
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
I haven't see any definitive evidence yet to suggest that it was impossible for the predator to track harrigan. So we still have two possibilities:
1) it was coincidence.
2) it was tracking him by some means: visual, technological or otherwise.
Of these two possibilities, coincidence is much less probable. So I remain convinced it was tracking him by some method which we are most likely unaware of since it wasn't explicitly shown in the movie.... But it was tracking him, nonetheless, which was strongly eluded to (or should I say "said outright"):
Leona: "first Danny, then King willie, and you were right there. He's playing with you mike. You gotta be careful."
Soooo, using the same logic you used in regards to the predator vision, if the director/writers included this dialog they must have meant for us to take this quote 'literally' and wanted us to believe harrigan was being followed/tracked by the predator. How was it tracking him? They must have intended for us to use our imaginations a little bit... :-)
OR, you can assume both predators were equipped exactly the same; the equipment is only as good as it's user. Perhaps that first predator didn't use, or think to use, it's tracking methods because it didn't think it was necessary. It seemed genuinely surprised to learn of Dutch's clever disguise. I wouldn't find that explanation hard to believe either.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 07, 2015, 07:52:52 AM
And even if it did have picture-perfect facial recognition (which it doesn't), that still only helps if the Predator is constantly looking at the guy. :) Even we humans, in our professional intelligence services, need to devote entire teams of several people - at any one simultaneous time - to tracking someone. The thing is wandering around the entire city and periodically going back to base.
Who says it's based on facial recognition? As I said earlier, there are more senses than that. And just because those senses/tracking methods aren't explicitly shown in the other films doesn't mean it can't happen. We don't see them using holograms in the first films but we know they have them. They have a wrist computer full of output we can't read.
Predators shows they are interested in specific people - and whilst it's possible they were quick grabs, Edwin is a serial killer who is less blatant and would show no immediate signs of interest so I would have assumed he was tracked prior to being snatched.
It really isn't hard to believe they are capable of differentiating people and taking an interest in specific ones.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: blood. on Jul 07, 2015, 08:06:45 AM
Predators clearly have navpoints on their priority targets on their hud in a spectrum of light we can't see.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 07, 2015, 03:15:42 PM
Rather than do a point-by-point thing, I'm just going to do an unnecessarily lengthy illustrated guide. :)
Spoiler
COULD THEY HAVE OTHER MYSTERY SENSES?
Yes, it's possible. On the other hand, there's zero indication of this. We see the new weapons and vision-modes being employed (vision-modes it never uses when it's looking at Harrigan, which means they consider themal of more use in observing him). Yes, it could be doing all kinds of other unexplained hand-waved stuff, but without any indications, we might as well say it's using magic. Until we're shown Predators have a way to accomplish a task, then we can't say they must do it.
And, again, we see what a Predator does with Dutch. That's one guy in an entire jungle. Being in a city like LA vastly multiplies the problems for the Predator, not its prey.
TRAJECTORY AND TRAINS:
Tracking trajectory won't help with the example of the train. It isn't about knowing a vehicle's heading. It's about knowing where the targets within it are. Was an invisible Predator literally going through the ticket gates and hanging around in a massive crowd of people? Not bothering to attack them because it... Liked trains? What was stopping it? Bystanders doesn't count, as it obviously didn't care about them when it ripped the carriage open. Why didn't anyone else notice a big shimmering creature on the underground platform? :)
We already saw what their preferred vision mode was (and the one it was using when it encountered Jerry/Leona) when looking at vehicles - and it's terrible at trying to look through the surface metal. In fact, metal is great at radiating all that sweltering LA heat, so...
PRIORITY TARGETS:
So, let's say Harrigan and his friends were all considered priority targets. Targets the mask can somehow locate and track at extreme range. If that's the case, then why are there no visual indications of this? The mask clearly isn't doing its job properly! :) Shouldn't they be getting highlighted in some way? Shouldn't there be a special marker placed over them, so that the user knows the primary targets have been found?
Nothing of the sort occurs. Nothing, at all. The mask isn't assigning any additional processing power to locating or tracking them. This shouldn't just be applying to Harrigan, but Jerry/Leona/Danny - and it doesn't happen at any time the Predator encounters them. Not once. They're treated just like all the other dozens of people it's also going after for daring to walk around armed.
Harrigan's told it's toying with him? Yes, because that would be a valid assumption if the killer was human. If the killer was doing things like reading newspaper clippings and stuff like that, like human serial killers do. It's not.
So, for the sake of argument, let's go into the Predator's world, itself... Let's look at those same scenes in the film from the perspective of the Predator.
This is the problem it will encounter every single time it wants to find Harrigan. Every time it spends a while finding a valid, armed target, it has to spend away from not only Harrigan, but his associates (all of whom will frequently split up). Every time it tracks down a target it does want to kill and spends a while arranging the best approach, before deciding to head back Harrigan's way. Every time it goes to the slaughterhouse to eat and decides it needs to go back to Harrigan. Every time it goes back to base to spend ages cleaning its new trophies, going to the toilet or sleeping, before deciding it wants to gut one of Harrigan's friends.
"Hey, guys, just going out to find that dude I want to-"
"Shit! Where is he?! Clack-clack-clack-clack-clack... Oh, I know! I might have seen him go in that big, massive building. I'll stake it out, dude. I'll will totally stake it-"
"F**king windows! Why can't I see through them?! F**k this shit, I'm finding someone I can actually see..."
And this is why any attempt for the Predators to find Harrigan, Jerry, Leona or Danny, will hit a brick wall. There are miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and... Of these. Of big, massive buildings which might as well have 'ANTI-PREDATOR BUNKER' written on the side. :)
And it could be travelling anywhere over the entire city. Look at those pictures. See how the problem gets worse, the further away it's looking? That's because heat disperses over distance and, especially in high temperatures (like those of the film), one heat source will bleed into another and get merged into the surrounding heated air.
Even if Harrigan were standing out on the balcony of one of those buildings, the Predator would still have a damned hard time trying to see his location - and this is assuming it both has a clear line-of-sight and happened to be looking in exactly the same direction.
Being a Predator is hard, you guys... That's why they're always grumpy.
But Harrigan and the rest could easily be picked out from above, right?
In a jungle, yeah. In LA, where they're surrounded by lots of similar humanoid shapes? The Predator doesn't just have to find a humanoid target, like in the first film. It has to figure out which ones they happen to be. That vision-mode is clearly great for finding human targets. We can see them very easily. But it's also clearly rubbish at figuring out who is who.
And here comes Harrigan! Here comes that number one awesome trophy dude! He'll obviously stand out!
Here he is by a dead gang-member. The only real differences are some different splodges of colour. There isn't anything which makes him look different. And what's he even done, from the Predator's perspective, which makes him any different to, say, Hawkins and the rest? If you were a Predator and had just seen this, would you honestly feel there's a point in prolonging the hunt over several days when you could just kill him dead? How about if you're a reckless Predator who's impulsive, like this one is meant to be? Would that make you more patient or less so?
OK, so, how about if the Predator has a fair chance and is looking at his face? Surely that makes a difference? Maybe we're taking away some kind of key visual advantage.
And standing him alongside another human figure apparently makes it even worse, not better. The Predator is going to - repeatedly - track him down through the city, based on this? Then it's going to be hunting just about anybody with a gun... Maybe that's why it took so long! It couldn't figure out who Harrigan actually was and had been attributing just about any violent gesture it saw to the one guy. :)
And vehicles are really shitty if you want to find out the identity of someone specific on the inside. This is the problem you'd have if you somehow knew your targets had boarded a train or, say, just a car.
How about the alternative vision-modes we know they have?
As we can see, they're all great if being used to track targets, in general. But what they all lack is the fine visual definition for identifying specific individuals.
And Harrigan still isn't being identified as a priority by the mask. The only reason the Predator seems to perk up, is because it recognises his voice - and that's all its own doing. The mask is not highlighting him as an important target, Terminator-style.
And when the Predator isn't using its mask, even right up close, the guy still looks like a generic trace of heat. The Predator can see he's a target, alive and humanoid. Visually-speaking, that's all.
Being a Predator is hard, you guys... Really, really hard.
[close]
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 07, 2015, 03:38:29 PM
I get it - the film doesn't show us how it tracks. And I get that it's a problem for you because of how unspecific the infra-red vision is shown to be.
But it still doesn't mean that you can't reasonably think that it's possibly that the Predator has some other method of tracking specific targets (some form of tagging like we do with IR or radio for example). The films clearly show us that they can track somehow. And there's a lot of plausible ways for them to do that that aren't limited to a visual facial recognition, especially considering that the Predators are supposed to be more advanced than us. It's really easy to believe. Maybe they'll be nice enough to show us that some day.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 07, 2015, 03:42:29 PM
Seriously, the insistence that it has to be (astronomically unlikely) coincidence, rather than simply being down to something we aren't shown and/or don't understand, just doesn't fly at all.
That's by far the less sensible supposition.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 07, 2015, 06:39:26 PM
You're still overlooking the obvious. The movie tells us and shows us that the predator IS tracking him... They just don't show/say how. So because it's not shown/explained explicitly in the movie, we're just supposed to assume it can't??? Or call it bad writing because they left us a little bit of a mystery???
The trajectory comment was just an example that the helmet has some computational power (maybe the hard drive is in its wrist gauntlet). The helmet could just as easily be doing any number of things behind the scenes to help track or locate. Other light spectrums could even help provide data to the helmet; it would still receive that light even if the preferred display is thermal for the predator.
And on the train those weren't exactly innocent bystanders; they were all armed and brandishing their weapons which made them viable prey in the moment. The predator obviously wasn't there because it liked trains; it was following jerry/Leona. It could have been watching from a distance, or standing right next to them cloaked as they boarded the train. Who knows? They don't show us how; if they had, the scene wouldn't have been a surprise anyway so that's likely an artifact of screen-writing (wouldn't be the first time).
And you mean to tell me it's NOT toying with him, and it was merely coincidence that Danny's necklace was hanging from a tree for harrigan to find in the cemetery while he was visiting Danny's grave?!? Then I stand corrected (not really).
Ultimately, this is NOTHING like the alien 3 'magic egg' controversy. There really isn't any good explanation for that debate! But this whole predator tracking thing has nothing illogical or 'magical' behind it; the movie tells us it can, therefore it can, and there are dozens of plausible ways it could. It's not a 'the predator can just because' explanation, and it's definitely not the same logic as 'it's using magic' either.
PS. Don't even get me started on the hologram maps/displays they've been showing us in those God-awful AvP movies! I'm sure it's just for our benefit, but a hologram map in visual light would be useless to a predator using thermal vision (unless the hologram is also a 'heatogram' or its switching to another vision mode). I find that ridiculous! But I can overlook it, by the same assumption; there's something technologically I don't see or know about going on!
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 07, 2015, 07:00:39 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 07, 2015, 06:39:26 PMAnd on the train those weren't exactly innocent bystanders; they were all armed and brandishing their weapons which made them viable prey in the moment.
Someone (I think Harrigan) specifically says they were all packing, so yeah.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 07, 2015, 08:27:22 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 07, 2015, 06:39:26 PM You're still overlooking the obvious. The movie tells us and shows us that the predator IS tracking him... They just don't show/say how. So because it's not shown/explained explicitly in the movie, we're just supposed to assume it can't??? Or call it bad writing because they left us a little bit of a mystery???
Have Predators been shown - over the course of between three to five films - that they have something which can constantly locate and track even one individual, let alone several, over an entire human city? No. No, they have not. The closest we've seen to that is a huge mechanical flying drone. That's why the 'hand-wave' method falls flat on its face for me. :)
Others can believe they can, of course. All I've said is that I don't personally buy it.
QuoteThe trajectory comment was just an example that the helmet has some computational power (maybe the hard drive is in its wrist gauntlet). The helmet could just as easily be doing any number of things behind the scenes to help track or locate. Other light spectrums could even help provide data to the helmet; it would still receive that light even if the preferred display is thermal for the predator.
Which would be great, except it's never shown to be doing that. It never highlights Harrigan/Jerry/Leona/Danny in any way, whatsoever. It never even gives so much as an audio cue - and every time it's watching him, it's doing so with thermal (and all the other modes of vision we're shown are just as awful for identifying individuals in a crowd).
QuoteAnd on the train those weren't exactly innocent bystanders; they were all armed and brandishing their weapons which made them viable prey in the moment. The predator obviously wasn't there because it liked trains; it was following jerry/Leona. It could have been watching from a distance, or standing right next to them cloaked as they boarded the train. Who knows? They don't show us how; if they had, the scene wouldn't have been a surprise anyway so that's likely an artifact of screen-writing (wouldn't be the first time).
You've just illustrated exactly why, for me, coincidence is way more easier to believe. :) Takes the fewest leaps of faith for them to have simply been caught up in an already-violent situation.
I'm not sure everyone on the train was armed (I thought a lot of them Leona was herding to the exit were unarmed), but I'd have to re-watch it.
QuoteAnd you mean to tell me it's NOT toying with him, and it was merely coincidence that Danny's necklace was hanging from a tree for harrigan to find in the cemetery while he was visiting Danny's grave?!? Then I stand corrected (not really).
That's the only real clue it might be doing something along those lines, yes. But I'm still waiting for a plausible method for them to be doing this locating/tracking of all four characters, simultaneously, over the entire city, which Predators have access to.
Otherwise, this effectively all comes down to a 'because they can' argument.
QuoteUltimately, this is NOTHING like the alien 3 'magic egg' controversy. There really isn't any good explanation for that debate! But this whole predator tracking thing has nothing illogical or 'magical' behind it; the movie tells us it can, therefore it can, and there are dozens of plausible ways it could. It's not a 'the predator can just because' explanation, and it's definitely not the same logic as 'it's using magic' either.
I'm still waiting for one. :)
Honestly, given what we've seen, on screen, they have no plausible way to be doing it. Same way as there's no plausible way to explain the egg, without doing a whole lot of 'what if' mental gymnastics.
If they couldn't track Dutch and they couldn't track Royce, it's going to be a damned sight harder to do in a city, not easier.
Harrigan is wearing some kind of locator? The mask isn't showing it. They can smell him? Harder to do in a city, not less - and they didn't smell Dutch or Royce.
QuotePS. Don't even get me started on the hologram maps/displays they've been showing us in those God-awful AvP movies! I'm sure it's just for our benefit, but a hologram map in visual light would be useless to a predator using thermal vision (unless the hologram is also a 'heatogram' or its switching to another vision mode). I find that ridiculous! But I can overlook it, by the same assumption; there's something technologically I don't see or know about going on!
Aaaaand that's the very logic I'm talking about. :)
You realise Plot Device X doesn't work (mostly because the writer(s) were thinking in human terms), so, you have to overlook it or think up plausible alternatives. But it's not necessary to be entertained by the story - it's just there, hovering in the background as something unexplained.
It's also why I can't buy the serial killer in 'Predators' was abducted because of his history, as the creatures wouldn't have realistically known about that, either. I could believe it was for another reason or that he got caught up in something and they decided to chuck him in anyway, though. The BSPs didn't seem to care about 'honour' stuff.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 07, 2015, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 07, 2015, 08:27:22 PM It's also why I can't buy the serial killer in 'Predators' was abducted because of his history, as the creatures wouldn't have realistically known about that, either. I could believe it was for another reason or that he got caught up in something and they decided to chuck him in anyway, though. The BSPs didn't seem to care about 'honour' stuff.
Predators makes a huge deal of the mystery behind Edwin and how he fits in with the group and presents it to you as him being a monster in his own right, a right that would require actual observation and tracking.
The belief that the Predators are capable of tracking and observing individuals is far less of a reach than coincidental encounters. Especially as the films tell you this.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: The Alien Predator on Jul 07, 2015, 09:38:13 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 07, 2015, 01:43:35 AM If Harrigan was somehow being tracked by unknown senses in the mask, then why was it impossible to apply those same abilities to Dutch? That's where all this falls down. If you presume these other abilities exist, then you have to come up with a reason they weren't being employed against Dutch. The fact they weren't, heavily suggests that thermal is their primary and only means to typically locate/track a human target.
Because the first Predator bought a pre-owned mask at Wal-Mart while the second Predator ordered a premium quality Bio-Mask from Amazon, brand new.
Plus he forgot to install the cool apps that City Hunter had.
:P
But seriously, with that way of thinking, you might as well ask "why didn't the Predator switch vision modes while tracking Dutch"? He probably had a lower quality mask or hadn't earned the right to more vision modes.
In AvP, the Predators periodically switch and alter vision modes to keep up to date on their surroundings, how was Scar able to realize Weyland was suddenly sick and decided to look further with X-ray modes?
Plus in Predators, their thermal vision is very detailed, even their "normal" vision looks detailed. You brushed it off as "it doesn't matter", well, it does, special effects improve, and so do Predator visions. Sure, in the 80's they had limitations, but now, you see just how detailed their vision is.
How do you explain the Predator suddenly being so agile and able to jump between branches without falling? Could you jump around in that vision? Of course not because you didn't evolve with it.
Even with our decent vision, we stumble and bump into things. I have yet to see a Predator crash into a tree in the middle of a leap...
Their vision isn't THAT bad dude. I play through AvP in Predator vision for fun through the entire game and I can tell individual Colonial Marine designs apart. If I can do it, they sure as hell can because that's their natural vision.
But overall, you do raise some points. Their vision isn't perfect, but it's not bad either. They can notice details in the environment, plants moving around, rocks being thrown and upon closer inspection, people. It's true that at a distance they would be hard to be seen, but even our vision is crap at a distance and only upon closer inspection do we see finer details. And don't forget that Predator masks have this fascinating ability to zoom onto things at a distance. :)
Also take into consideration that Predators have lots of artwork in their ships and pyramids, what is the point of that if they can't see it so well? Also why do the Predators bother with marking themselves? Or their masks? And doesn't City Hunter appear to have tribal tattoos of some kind? Again, no point of those for a creature that can't see and appreciate colour or fine details. That's why any Predator art or sculpture lacks any colour, their vision is more focused on the detail of the environment.
I think you may have looked a bit too much into the special effects of a 80's and early 90's movie. Yet as the effects improve, you see more details in their vision too. Otherwise, it's just gonna be a contradiction, "how comes these Predators see better than the last ones? How comes this one switches masks while the last one didn't?"
So, like it or not, Predators see a lot better than what the camera shows. Or why would they even bother improving their vision with each new movie?
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 08, 2015, 01:38:00 AM
No... That's not the logic you're talking about. This is what doesn't make any sense to me: you say the predator pov is meant to be taken literally as what the predator sees because that's what the director used in the film; yet you ignore the events and dialog that the director included which point to the predator tracking harrigan, rather than taking all that literally too. Explain to me why we should take the predator pov as literal, but not the events/dialogue?
You're absolutely right about avp; the directors there were thinking about it too much in human-terms... It looks snazzy on screen, but put some thought in and it doesn't make sense. We agree on that. But you're doing the same thing with the predator pov; thinking about it in human-terms. As I've already pointed out, as well as others, and most recently as Guan thwei pointed out:
the predator evolved that way, we didn't
Thermal doesn't translate well to visual light, and turns out looking liked color-coded blobs to us, but you can never truly know what the predator really sees... It's too 'alien' for us. The purpose of the predator pov in This respect was to let us (the audience) know that it sees in thermal. Otherwise, we would have been lost when Dutch used mud to hide himself.
And practically speaking, special effects just weren't good enough in the 80s/90s to provide the crystal clear clarity you're longing for.
And yes, they have shown a predator tracking its prey through multiple movies... As far back as predator 2 at the very least, The entire movie emphasizes it without showing us how (because 'how' wasn't important for the plot)... And ultimately, the lack of a 'how' does not equate as evidence that they could not.
Again, the logic was never "because they can" it's "because the movie showed us they could/did." The whole technology/magic quote was to suggest that just because it seems like magic to you doesn't mean it is, just an advanced technology which none of us have any understanding of, and in this case we don't understand it because it's never explicitly shown/described. When you watch any movie with faster than lightspeed travel involved, what explanation do you provide to counteract the time dilation problem or the cosmic speed limit problem? They never show us or explain to us how they've solved those problems, but for the sake of the movie you take it as it comes and believe they can because they did it, right? That's the same concept. They must have some technology which we don't understand (yet) which allows for this, but it wasn't pivotal to the plot of the movie so the details were left out (or filled in with scientific jargon to sound official). It's common practice in sci fi... Alien is guilty of it, terminator is guilty of it, avatar is guilty of it, in fact I don't think I can find ANY sci fi movie that isn't guilty of it to some extent... Even the first predator is guilty of it; how did the predator manage to cloak itself in the first place? Answer: an advanced technology we do not understand...
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About...
Post by: blood. on Jul 08, 2015, 09:52:19 AM
Yes, it's possible. On the other hand, there's zero indication of this. We see the new weapons and vision-modes being employed (vision-modes it never uses when it's looking at Harrigan, which means they consider themal of more use in observing him). Yes, it could be doing all kinds of other unexplained hand-waved stuff, but without any indications, we might as well say it's using magic. Until we're shown Predators have a way to accomplish a task, then we can't say they must do it.
And, again, we see what a Predator does with Dutch. That's one guy in an entire jungle. Being in a city like LA vastly multiplies the problems for the Predator, not its prey.
TRAJECTORY AND TRAINS:
Tracking trajectory won't help with the example of the train. It isn't about knowing a vehicle's heading. It's about knowing where the targets within it are. Was an invisible Predator literally going through the ticket gates and hanging around in a massive crowd of people? Not bothering to attack them because it... Liked trains? What was stopping it? Bystanders doesn't count, as it obviously didn't care about them when it ripped the carriage open. Why didn't anyone else notice a big shimmering creature on the underground platform? :)
We already saw what their preferred vision mode was (and the one it was using when it encountered Jerry/Leona) when looking at vehicles - and it's terrible at trying to look through the surface metal. In fact, metal is great at radiating all that sweltering LA heat, so...
PRIORITY TARGETS:
So, let's say Harrigan and his friends were all considered priority targets. Targets the mask can somehow locate and track at extreme range. If that's the case, then why are there no visual indications of this? The mask clearly isn't doing its job properly! :) Shouldn't they be getting highlighted in some way? Shouldn't there be a special marker placed over them, so that the user knows the primary targets have been found?
Nothing of the sort occurs. Nothing, at all. The mask isn't assigning any additional processing power to locating or tracking them. This shouldn't just be applying to Harrigan, but Jerry/Leona/Danny - and it doesn't happen at any time the Predator encounters them. Not once. They're treated just like all the other dozens of people it's also going after for daring to walk around armed.
Harrigan's told it's toying with him? Yes, because that would be a valid assumption if the killer was human. If the killer was doing things like reading newspaper clippings and stuff like that, like human serial killers do. It's not.
So, for the sake of argument, let's go into the Predator's world, itself... Let's look at those same scenes in the film from the perspective of the Predator.
This is the problem it will encounter every single time it wants to find Harrigan. Every time it spends a while finding a valid, armed target, it has to spend away from not only Harrigan, but his associates (all of whom will frequently split up). Every time it tracks down a target it does want to kill and spends a while arranging the best approach, before deciding to head back Harrigan's way. Every time it goes to the slaughterhouse to eat and decides it needs to go back to Harrigan. Every time it goes back to base to spend ages cleaning its new trophies, going to the toilet or sleeping, before deciding it wants to gut one of Harrigan's friends.
"Hey, guys, just going out to find that dude I want to-"
"Shit! Where is he?! Clack-clack-clack-clack-clack... Oh, I know! I might have seen him go in that big, massive building. I'll stake it out, dude. I'll will totally stake it-"
"F**king windows! Why can't I see through them?! F**k this shit, I'm finding someone I can actually see..."
And this is why any attempt for the Predators to find Harrigan, Jerry, Leona or Danny, will hit a brick wall. There are miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and... Of these. Of big, massive buildings which might as well have 'ANTI-PREDATOR BUNKER' written on the side. :)
And it could be travelling anywhere over the entire city. Look at those pictures. See how the problem gets worse, the further away it's looking? That's because heat disperses over distance and, especially in high temperatures (like those of the film), one heat source will bleed into another and get merged into the surrounding heated air.
Even if Harrigan were standing out on the balcony of one of those buildings, the Predator would still have a damned hard time trying to see his location - and this is assuming it both has a clear line-of-sight and happened to be looking in exactly the same direction.
Being a Predator is hard, you guys... That's why they're always grumpy.
But Harrigan and the rest could easily be picked out from above, right?
In a jungle, yeah. In LA, where they're surrounded by lots of similar humanoid shapes? The Predator doesn't just have to find a humanoid target, like in the first film. It has to figure out which ones they happen to be. That vision-mode is clearly great for finding human targets. We can see them very easily. But it's also clearly rubbish at figuring out who is who.
And here comes Harrigan! Here comes that number one awesome trophy dude! He'll obviously stand out!
Here he is by a dead gang-member. The only real differences are some different splodges of colour. There isn't anything which makes him look different. And what's he even done, from the Predator's perspective, which makes him any different to, say, Hawkins and the rest? If you were a Predator and had just seen this, would you honestly feel there's a point in prolonging the hunt over several days when you could just kill him dead? How about if you're a reckless Predator who's impulsive, like this one is meant to be? Would that make you more patient or less so?
OK, so, how about if the Predator has a fair chance and is looking at his face? Surely that makes a difference? Maybe we're taking away some kind of key visual advantage.
And standing him alongside another human figure apparently makes it even worse, not better. The Predator is going to - repeatedly - track him down through the city, based on this? Then it's going to be hunting just about anybody with a gun... Maybe that's why it took so long! It couldn't figure out who Harrigan actually was and had been attributing just about any violent gesture it saw to the one guy. :)
And vehicles are really shitty if you want to find out the identity of someone specific on the inside. This is the problem you'd have if you somehow knew your targets had boarded a train or, say, just a car.
How about the alternative vision-modes we know they have?
As we can see, they're all great if being used to track targets, in general. But what they all lack is the fine visual definition for identifying specific individuals.
And Harrigan still isn't being identified as a priority by the mask. The only reason the Predator seems to perk up, is because it recognises his voice - and that's all its own doing. The mask is not highlighting him as an important target, Terminator-style.
And when the Predator isn't using its mask, even right up close, the guy still looks like a generic trace of heat. The Predator can see he's a target, alive and humanoid. Visually-speaking, that's all.
Being a Predator is hard, you guys... Really, really hard.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: The Alien Predator on Jul 08, 2015, 09:42:38 PM
Engineer points out some good things too.
Predator minds simply process their vision in their own way. Your human mind is confused by this, but to them it could be very clear. Remember, these are alien minds so try not to anthropomorphise the Predators by projecting yourself into that visual spectrum, Xenomorphine.
If you think them tracking one person is so hard, how the hell did they make their tech?
Forget "make", even if they stole it, you HAVE to be able to "see" what you are using right? How do they read their writing? How do they see their holograms? Plus stealing tech can only go so far, you have to get to the point where you have to replicate it right? Good luck with that if you only see "blobs of red" in a 80's style effects blue and green blurry as hell background. Good luck figuring out particles, good luck analysing cellular science, good luck researching molecules for advanced tech, none of these things as far as I know generate any heat. Good luck finding the medical tools needed to treat your wounds if you only see blotches of red.
Also Predator blood for some reason appears bright green in their natural unmasked vision just like in our own which is a bit odd. Truth is, it's some kind of alien vision. Even we can slightly see in the IR spectrum, for instance, when some metal begins to glow red hot, if I'm not mistaken, that red heat is IR as hot things are "red" in both visible and IR spectrums and anything glowing white is the hottest. So if that's correct, then it's no surprise that Predators may catch a little more than just heat (hence them being able to see their blood as bright green while to us it is bioluminescent bright green.)
Notice how too much heat kinda blinds a Predator's heat based vision just how too much light blinds a human's visible light based vision? When you think about it, we are really similar in the way our eyes work and how our neurons perceive this information. Remember, the "vision" you see is what your brain is projecting, that is how some illusions happen, when the brain struggles to put together the information your eyes give it.
So a Predator's eyes pick up the heat, the brain analyses it. And to me, Predators are very intelligent and cunning predatory animals, so they gotta be able to pick between prey, even for food, pick the injured, weak, sick or in a sporty hunt, pick something challenging etc. They gotta be able to tell things apart by nature just like lions hunting a group of prey animals. All predators have the ability to pick and choose, it's the whole purpose of most predators having forward facing eyes, for the sake of focusing on one thing.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 09, 2015, 02:55:29 PM
anthropomorphise... Good word usage, Guan! :-)
Ok, so here's a consideration. In my opinion, the primary source material for canonical information or filling story elements is always the movie. A secondary source would be the script. I don't have access to the script; I tried downloading it here but it wouldn't open for me (probably because I tried with my phone). So the next best thing would be a tertiary source, a movie novilization, which I DO happen to have.
In the novel, which was written based on the script and movie itself, they try to portray the predator pov by describing what the predator sees, hears and thinks. Those portions are written in a different font to emphasize that it's a different view point. The novel's predator pov describes the predator distinctly focusing on harrigan because he seems to be more worthy prey based on his actions. It also describes it using different vision filters and magnifications to focus in on harrigan and block everything else out. How did it do this? With some sort of "telepathic" connection with the helmet and its sensors. I found this within the first 18 pages... The rest of the book probably has dozens of other examples.
Is this proof enough?
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 09, 2015, 03:02:04 PM
I didn't wanna bring the novel into it because, you know, it's not the film, but yes, the book makes it abundantly clear the Predator is specifically following Harrigan. It even goes so far as to point out it deliberately follows and targets Leona and Jerry on the subway in order to antagonise him, because it's been following them collectively closely enough to know they are friends/comrades.
But even forgetting the book, Xenomorphine's argument falls apart when you consider the scene where the Predator leaves Harrigan Danny's necklace at the cemetery. That could only happen if the creature had deliberately followed him there. Unless you're seriously trying to suggest it's just randomly leaving the necklace hanging in a tree for the lulz, and out of all the trees in the city it just miraculously happens to pick one a) near Danny's grave, and b) while Harrigan is stood thirty feet away.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 09, 2015, 03:26:25 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 09, 2015, 03:02:04 PM I didn't wanna bring the novel into it because, you know, it's not the film, but yes, the book makes it abundantly clear the Predator is specifically following Harrigan. It even goes so far as to point out it deliberately follows and targets Leona and Jerry on the subway in order to antagonise him, because it's been following them collectively closely enough to know they are friends/comrades.
But even forgetting the book, Xenomorphine's argument falls apart when you consider the scene where the Predator leaves Harrigan Danny's necklace at the cemetery. That could only happen if the creature had deliberately followed him there. Unless you're seriously trying to suggest it's just randomly leaving the necklace hanging in a tree for the lulz, and out of all the trees in the city it just miraculously happens to pick one a) near Danny's grave, and b) while Harrigan is stood thirty feet away.
Agreed. Novel wasn't my first choice... :-)
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: The Alien Predator on Jul 09, 2015, 05:20:46 PM
Thanks, Engineer. ;D
Both you and Huda show undeniable proof that the Predator is able to recognise and follow specific individuals,
Also thanks for mentioning that bit from the novel. I always had a feeling some Predator tech was telepathically linked to their wearer. Such advanced tech... how did a creature that can only see blobs of red even make such things? This alone proves Predators see much more than what a 80's style thermal camera can show our 'visible spectrum' vision on screen.
Another thing that doesn't prove Xenomorphine's point is his constant mentioning of people moving in and out of the target's building, which would make them difficult to track. The same thing can be said for a human stalking the same target at a distance. People can vanish into a crowd very easily. Yet who says Predators only use vision? Lucrecia Borgia did mention that she had to mask her heat and use perfume to mask her pheromones in the game Concrete Jungle. Maybe this could've been another way Predators stalk? With pheromones? (Which were ironically used to track it as well :laugh:)
The masks seem to have a tagging ability of some sort, Sorry to bring up AvP R, but didn't the Predalien appear in yellow as opposed to the other Aliens being green? I don't fully remember the details. I think one of the Predators saw the Abomination and shot it, then sends this whole video recording to Wolf who no doubt also 'tagged' the Abomination to more easily recognize it even at a distance.
In conclusion, it's alien tech, an alien mind and an alien vision, Xenomorphine. We wouldn't understand it anyway even if it hit us in the face. It's like trying to explains how Xenomorphs grow so fast, or how they breathe with lips closed, there could be so many explanations that would then become disagreements followed by constant debates.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 09, 2015, 06:22:22 PM
The Novel also indicates the predator was able to see through harrigans car frame and focus on him inside during the opening gun fight, as well as list off his vital statistics off to the side of the display then comparing that data to information in the helmet's memory banks to identify the target (biometrics).
I did catch a mistake in the novel though... On page 2, it states the year is 1995. Lol
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: The Alien Predator on Jul 09, 2015, 06:42:05 PM
Really cool stuff man. Predators have some really good scanning and sensor technology available to them.
And lol at the mistake. I saw some funny ones in the recent Titan Books trilogy such as Pulse Rifles suddenly becoming Plasma Rifles. :laugh:
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: The_Angry_Barbarian on Jul 11, 2015, 04:07:16 PM
Gotta say I think for Predator 4 to be a success we need Arnie back in the franchise as an older Dutch. I for one think Dutch should be hunting down the Predator perhaps becoming obsessed with a desire to both learn more about his adversary and get revenge upon the species for the deaths of his comrades particularly as he knows they hunt humans for sport. The Predator franchise I think needs to kind of look into some of the possible ideas for Alien 5 with the whole return of Ripley thing. We kind of need a few nods back to the original as well as taking the franchise in a different direction (like Prometheus did but not in the same way those films went).
For me it needs to be something completely new I don't want a rehash of the original which Predators basically was, there needs to be a more expansive story, tell us or even show us something about these creatures we don't already know and perhaps do that in a way that has us wondering what the hell's gonna happen next. Finally as I said before we need Dutch back, Alien has Ripley and the strength of her character alone is why Alien and Aliens are such great stories (I wasn't a big fan or Alien 3 and Resurrection was just terrible in my opinion) so we need Dutch as a priority. Harrigan I thought was great in Predator 2 but as much as I'd like to see more of that character I don't think the franchise should do that just yet.
I like the idea of Dutch tracking down Yautja as it gives an ironic twist to the whole set up I mean the Predator has to be the main threat but having Dutch track one down and attempt to hunt it himself will probably not go completely to plan so that could be a fresh direction or even allude to what the Yautja might do to those that have succeeded against them and survived; I mean a prey species killing the hunter is going to attract attention. For some reason I would just love to see Dutch have a look of horror come across his face as he realises he has to deal with another Predator. As for what Predators did I think Shane Black needs to steer clear of it I mean it was an ok film but it was basically a wannabe version of the original which while entertaining at times is just not what I want from a Predator movie.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 13, 2015, 07:17:56 AM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 09, 2015, 02:55:29 PM In the novel, which was written based on the script and movie itself, they try to portray the predator pov by describing what the predator sees, hears and thinks. Those portions are written in a different font to emphasize that it's a different view point. The novel's predator pov describes the predator distinctly focusing on harrigan because he seems to be more worthy prey based on his actions. It also describes it using different vision filters and magnifications to focus in on harrigan and block everything else out. How did it do this? With some sort of "telepathic" connection with the helmet and its sensors. I found this within the first 18 pages... The rest of the book probably has dozens of other examples.
I can't remember which novel it was but I'm sure another talks about the Predators using their mandibles inside the mask to control certain functions. does anyone else remember that?
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 13, 2015, 07:34:53 AM
Because Arnie's recent films have been such runaway successes.
Yeah but its not because his acting is horrible. you can't hold him responsible for poor storyline or screenwriting. It's not his fault the script or the story sucks. And most of the films he's been in have already been done a million times over. I think the problem is he's doing roles he's comfortable playing. The type he would have played pre-governor, and doesn't realize those type of films haven't been all that successful because they've all been played out. I think the return of a character such as Dutch would be beneficial for both the movie and his acting career.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 13, 2015, 12:47:41 PM
But at the same time you can't claim the success of Predator 4 hinges on his participation, because clearly he's not the big-name draw he once was.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Whiskeybrewer on Jul 13, 2015, 12:57:04 PM
I like the fact that each Predator film has been a different set of characters. it brings something new each time. I wouldnt have Arnie back, maybe just reference his character, but i would have Adam Baldwin's character back from number 2
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 13, 2015, 03:06:57 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 09, 2015, 02:55:29 PM In the novel, which was written based on the script and movie itself, they try to portray the predator pov by describing what the predator sees, hears and thinks. Those portions are written in a different font to emphasize that it's a different view point. The novel's predator pov describes the predator distinctly focusing on harrigan because he seems to be more worthy prey based on his actions. It also describes it using different vision filters and magnifications to focus in on harrigan and block everything else out. How did it do this? With some sort of "telepathic" connection with the helmet and its sensors. I found this within the first 18 pages... The rest of the book probably has dozens of other examples.
I can't remember which novel it was but I'm sure another talks about the Predators using their mandibles inside the mask to control certain functions. does anyone else remember that?
That doesn't ring any bells for me, but I haven't read all the books yet either. Funny thing is, while I was typing the post you quoted, I had a 'what if' thought that the predator had a keyboard imbedded in his helmet right where it's mouth is, and it used its mandibles to type in commands. Lol. That's what all those clicking sounds are about!!! Jk
Woah! Sorry hicks, I dunno how this quote thing messed up like this. :-/
I had all the text in the right place... Edit: fixed quote display...
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 13, 2015, 03:25:24 PM
But at the same time you can't claim the success of Predator 4 hinges on his participation, because clearly he's not the big-name draw he once was.
Oh I completely agree. I am by no means insinuating that he will be the reason for the movies demise or rise. I was just stating that I feel his acting is still up to par he's just picking the wrong roles. Of course you never know... maybe he's just doing lesser roles until he can find his groove again. I thought he did an excellent job in terminator genisys. Back to the new predator film... yes I agree it has been great that the series has continued without tying them all to a sole actor. I also feel that a return to one of the original characters would be a refreshing experience. It's something most don't see coming. It's been said before that the chances of having an encounter more than once in a lifetime is stretching it thin. I say... why not. That could be exactly what the series needs. Something that hasn't been attempted before. A "round two" if you will. Now I'm not suggesting the preds try to find him because he survived before. I'm not even suggesting that he went off the rails and started trying to track them around the world. But a chance encounter some 20-30 years down the road could make for an exciting plot. Because he's seen them in action before he knows what tricks they have so the predator or predators have to change up their tactics and weaponry if they want to complete their hunt and collect their trophies. Yes its a slim chance that a second encounter could ever happen but so is winning the lottery and we see that all the time. Do you not think that would make for an interesting turn of events?
Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Jul 13, 2015, 12:57:04 PM I like the fact that each Predator film has been a different set of characters. it brings something new each time. I wouldnt have Arnie back, maybe just reference his character, but i would have Adam Baldwin's character back from number 2
Yeah that would be acceptable as well. Someone who has seen them in action and is tasked with tracking and capturing one.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: THE CITY HUNTER on Jul 13, 2015, 04:32:12 PM
Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Jul 13, 2015, 12:57:04 PM I like the fact that each Predator film has been a different set of characters. it brings something new each time. I wouldnt have Arnie back, maybe just reference his character, but i would have Adam Baldwin's character back from number 2
Yeah that would be acceptable as well. Someone who has seen them in action and is tasked with tracking and capturing one.
But you see Baldwin as a side character like agent keyes knew about the predator so him being the mane character would ruin the tense and him knowing the predator how it operates would be a downside.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 13, 2015, 04:41:04 PM
Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Jul 13, 2015, 12:57:04 PM I like the fact that each Predator film has been a different set of characters. it brings something new each time. I wouldnt have Arnie back, maybe just reference his character, but i would have Adam Baldwin's character back from number 2
Yeah that would be acceptable as well. Someone who has seen them in action and is tasked with tracking and capturing one.
But you see Baldwin as a side character like agent keyes knew about the predator so him being the mane character would ruin the tense and him knowing the predator how it operates would be a downside.
Not necessarily. Him taking over after Keyes could be very eventful. And as far as him knowing how the predator operates that could actually be more suspenseful. Especially with his attitude. Garber already displayed his arrogance and napoleon complex. Him being put in charge would probably stroke his ego even more and leave him open to mistakes. Not to mention technically he didn't really see anything with the predator. He watched the monitors. And when the pred realized he was walking into a trap he went apeshit and killed everyone so fast that you really couldn't see what was going on in the building. The monitors all went blank. All he knows is the feeding habits and the movements of ONE of the predators. They all have different methods of hunting.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: The Alien Predator on Jul 14, 2015, 06:43:17 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 09, 2015, 02:55:29 PM In the novel, which was written based on the script and movie itself, they try to portray the predator pov by describing what the predator sees, hears and thinks. Those portions are written in a different font to emphasize that it's a different view point. The novel's predator pov describes the predator distinctly focusing on harrigan because he seems to be more worthy prey based on his actions. It also describes it using different vision filters and magnifications to focus in on harrigan and block everything else out. How did it do this? With some sort of "telepathic" connection with the helmet and its sensors. I found this within the first 18 pages... The rest of the book probably has dozens of other examples.
I can't remember which novel it was but I'm sure another talks about the Predators using their mandibles inside the mask to control certain functions. does anyone else remember that?
That doesn't ring any bells for me, but I haven't read all the books yet either. Funny thing is, while I was typing the post you quoted, I had a 'what if' thought that the predator had a keyboard imbedded in his helmet right where it's mouth is, and it used its mandibles to type in commands. Lol. That's what all those clicking sounds are about!!! Jk
Woah! Sorry hicks, I dunno how this quote thing messed up like this. :-/
I had all the text in the right place... Edit: fixed quote display...
LOL the clicking sound = super fast mandible typing! :P
Well folks, it looks like Engineer has finally solved the mystery of Predator clicking.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Engineer on Jul 14, 2015, 07:23:27 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 09, 2015, 02:55:29 PM In the novel, which was written based on the script and movie itself, they try to portray the predator pov by describing what the predator sees, hears and thinks. Those portions are written in a different font to emphasize that it's a different view point. The novel's predator pov describes the predator distinctly focusing on harrigan because he seems to be more worthy prey based on his actions. It also describes it using different vision filters and magnifications to focus in on harrigan and block everything else out. How did it do this? With some sort of "telepathic" connection with the helmet and its sensors. I found this within the first 18 pages... The rest of the book probably has dozens of other examples.
I can't remember which novel it was but I'm sure another talks about the Predators using their mandibles inside the mask to control certain functions. does anyone else remember that?
That doesn't ring any bells for me, but I haven't read all the books yet either. Funny thing is, while I was typing the post you quoted, I had a 'what if' thought that the predator had a keyboard imbedded in his helmet right where it's mouth is, and it used its mandibles to type in commands. Lol. That's what all those clicking sounds are about!!! Jk
Woah! Sorry hicks, I dunno how this quote thing messed up like this. :-/
I had all the text in the right place... Edit: fixed quote display...
LOL the clicking sound = super fast mandible typing! :P
Well folks, it looks like Engineer has finally solved the mystery of Predator clicking.
I just found the predator's resume online; under "skills" it said:
Typing speed 70 WPM by hand 120 WPM by mandibles
Lmao, jk
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 21, 2015, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Jul 13, 2015, 12:57:04 PM I like the fact that each Predator film has been a different set of characters. it brings something new each time. I wouldnt have Arnie back, maybe just reference his character, but i would have Adam Baldwin's character back from number 2
Yeah that would be acceptable as well. Someone who has seen them in action and is tasked with tracking and capturing one.
But you see Baldwin as a side character like agent keyes knew about the predator so him being the mane character would ruin the tense and him knowing the predator how it operates would be a downside.
Not necessarily. Him taking over after Keyes could be very eventful. And as far as him knowing how the predator operates that could actually be more suspenseful. Especially with his attitude. Garber already displayed his arrogance and napoleon complex. Him being put in charge would probably stroke his ego even more and leave him open to mistakes. Not to mention technically he didn't really see anything with the predator. He watched the monitors. And when the pred realized he was walking into a trap he went apeshit and killed everyone so fast that you really couldn't see what was going on in the building. The monitors all went blank. All he knows is the feeding habits and the movements of ONE of the predators. They all have different methods of hunting.
After watching Predator 2 yet again something kinda stuck out and made me think of this thread immediately. When keyes was talking to harrigan and explaining about the predator he mentions iwo jima, Cambodia, and Beirut. And then stated they were drawn to heat and conflict. That whole explanation tells us that they have been studying these creatures since at least world war II. And the fact that keyes group arrived in LA so soon after the arrival of the preds suggest that they are somehow able to track the arrival of preds. Maybe even hunting patterns. They knew about the active camouflage, his eating patterns, weaponry, vision, and how it moved. They knew tons about them. Which in turn makes the slim possibility of someone running into them more than once.....not such a slim possibility anymore. So dutch running into one after x amount of years or even tracking them isn't such a stretch after all.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: THE CITY HUNTER on Jul 21, 2015, 07:00:43 PM
Why has not Danny Glover been contacted about predator 4 >:( >:(
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: pred169 on Jul 21, 2015, 07:31:23 PM
Unfortunately he hasn't aged very well. I don't think he'd be up for another action flick. Although I have to agree... I would rather enjoy him reprising his role as well.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: THE CITY HUNTER on Jul 21, 2015, 07:38:28 PM
Unfortunately he hasn't aged very well. I don't think he'd be up for another action flick. Although I have to agree... I would rather enjoy him reprising his role as well.
:(
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: RakaiThwei on Jul 21, 2015, 09:00:38 PM
Just like Alien 3 they were not received very well in the beginning hell Predator had bad ratings at first that is why i dont trust reviewers at first and that is why i have made my own youtube channel
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: overthere on Aug 28, 2015, 01:05:04 PM
Just like Alien 3 they were not received very well in the beginning hell Predator had bad ratings at first that is why i dont trust reviewers at first and that is why i have made my own youtube channel
Your youtube channel is terminated though
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Whiskeybrewer on Aug 28, 2015, 02:34:23 PM
CityHunter's channel is still there atm
edit: Oh it has gone. Bugger. :(
edit 2: Oh wait it says its terminated if you use the link here, yet on youtube, because i'm subscribed it says its till there. Odd
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: THE CITY HUNTER on Aug 28, 2015, 05:51:07 PM
Just like Alien 3 they were not received very well in the beginning hell Predator had bad ratings at first that is why i dont trust reviewers at first and that is why i have made my own youtube channel
Your youtube channel is terminated though
I dont get it why is it terminated anyway if you want to subscribe i will put my video up.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Master on Aug 31, 2015, 07:20:30 PM
If they contact Arnie for some sort of cameo, they must contact Danny as well. Let's be honest Arnie is not in shape or age for Predator fighting. But imagine scene where new protogonist goes to the bar and meet both Dutch and Mike who give him short yet epic speech how to fight the monster. I'd cry in cinema for sure.
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4
Post by: Milan on Sep 23, 2015, 05:50:40 AM
I rather have Dutch in command of a team that he trained, if Danny doesn't want to play the role again, that's ok, I can picture a scene with Dutch in a graveyard, faceing a tombstone with the name Mike Harrigan on it, we see him standing by his grave talking to it, saying something like... - We started this together, my friend...for 20 years we fought, we bled, we mourned our lost compadres but to night I'm going to end it, end it once and for all...This time we HUNT them...
A man approches the Grave... - We are ready, sir.
Dutch lights his cigar and slowly walks to the black suv the man came from. The young man watches Dutch as he passes by then faces the tombstone, he places his hand on it... - This one is for you, father. As he leaves the grave, the camera zooms in on the id card on the suit...it says Cantrell.