There Are Some Places In The Universe You Don't Go Alone, Aliens 35th Anniversary Retrospective - AvP Galaxy Podcast #129

[SiL]

The investigation of the colony, then the hive, is full of tension, like Kane. There are ample shocks throughout the film

[City Hunter Yautja]

Although ALIEN³ was my first Alien movie being aware of having seen it, my parents were watching ALIENS when I was only 5 years old. I was supposed to have been asleep, and they put me right back in bed. I remember seeing this scene, which scared me very much. 👻

I am glad that scared you. For me I knew Newt had plot armor. It wasn't till AVP Requiem that the "children are off limits" ended.

The investigation of the colony, then the hive, is full of tension, like Kane. There are ample shocks throughout the film

Where you disgusted? How often were you feeling fear, shock, and disgust. Alien had it from opening till the airlock for me.

[SiL]

I was disgusted by the chestburster and the facehugger ovipositors, yes. Which is about as much as I was disgusted by Alien. We've already discussed fear and shock.

I can't say anything about the opening ten minutes of Alien was particular gross or shocking, but your reaction to John Hurt's nipples may vary, I guess

And Aliens established kids weren't off-limits when Newt told us her brother died - along with all the kids. Showing a child dying arguably made it laughable, not more horrific.

[City Hunter Yautja]

I was disgusted by the chestburster and the facehugger ovipositors, yes. Which is about as much as I was disgusted by Alien. We've already discussed fear and shock.

I can't say anything about the opening ten minutes of Alien was particular gross or shocking, but your reaction to John Hurt's nipples may vary, I guess

And Aliens established kids weren't off-limits when Newt told us her brother died - along with all the kids. Showing a child dying arguably made it laughable, not more horrific.

I felt the tension is there in opening of Alien, the planet and the ship.

Ah yes, but Newt's brother's death was off screen. So it didn't count to me.

[BlueMarsalis79]

I actually rate the Aliens Chestburster quite highly, I think it's arguably more horrifying than the original one, but I agree that a lot of the rest of the film's beats come across as "feeling safe" by comparison.

[SiL]

I thought the second film burster was very effective, too. The actress did a great job with two minutes of screentime.

I wouldn't argue Aliens is as horrifying, as it does ease up in many places, but it's called an action horror for a reason

[XenoHunter99]

Your critiques of Ripley are valid. I think I didn't notice them as much because the wider cast takes your attention off her until the last 20mins which is all her. I agree with you, Ripley comes off a little too zealous and bossy in those scenes, especially on LV-421's Colony. She's a civilian, but is giving orders. She also doesn't seemes horrified enough, I mean at the beginning of the film she has PTSD and fears becoming a hist, but in also her scenes on LV she is calm, composed, and frankly lacking the craven demeanor from earlier in the film.

Ripley is better in Alien and Alien 3 I agree. There her behavior seems more realistic. James Cameron made Ripley too much of Linda Hamilton/ Sarah Conner T2 knock off (even though I realize T2 came later).

I think the facehugger scene lacks tension because its Ripley and Newt. Had they been released on everyone, and Hutson got one on his face, that would have been a fitting end to him; loudest and most talkative guy gets his pie hole stuffed with facehugger. Perhaps Burke even getting a facehugger on him too, some reverse justice since he released them.

While I likes the Alien Queen vs Ripley in the Loader, the scene when she opens the airlock and Queen Alien holds on to her leg is ridiculous. Her leg would have snapped or tore off.

While I love Aliens, I admit it has flaws. Like any movie we overlook the flaws because the full product is well done. I think Aliens is well done, but yes, Cameron went over the top in areas.

Thanks and thanks for sharing your thoughts. Cool!

Your ideas about who to facehug would be entertaining if they could find life in an "Elseworlds" story or something. I think a lot of ideas would be fun to explore. As for the huggers, I was (still am) impressed with how the huggers came off as being very dangerous. It took the help of the 3 marines to rescue Ripley from it. But I agree: No way Newt or Ripley would have been hugged there. Plot armor! Maybe Ripley was a sort of prototype for T2 Sarah Connor, the same way the Betty crew was a prototype for the crew on Firefly. Or maybe James Cameron has a thing for tough women. I really think, with Ripley's briefing in hand, T2+ Sarah Connor would have a surprise or two for our favorite space parasite.  Also, in crossover hell, who in their right mind would stand against those two heroines?

On other related posts...
I think SiL mentioned something about Ripley being anti-authority and bossy. She certainly turned out that way, especially after Ash showed her the true nature of life in corporate space.  And WY execs went out of their way to reinforce her distrust. She started out by-the-book, but always thinking.

If you look at her timeline, in terms of awake time, original Ellen Ripley was a short-lived character. She was awake a few days on the Nostromo. She was asleep 57 years. Too bad she couldn't have access to cryosleep training programs as in Demolition Man. Then she was awake for a while on Gateway station. It was likely weeks, a couple months(?) before she left - Long enough to get a dock job and learn to drive a powerloader like a pro. Asleep for the return to LV426. Awake on the ship and on the planet for a few days total? Asleep on the Sulaco until it caught on fire. Ejected onto Fiorina. Awake for a few more days or a week until she died. She transformed a lot over a short period of awake time. 

[Kimarhi]

The difference between Alien and Aliens has always to me felt that Aliens was more tense.


Tension and horror are two different feelings for me.  The first film was better at horror, especially after learning of the egg morph, body horror is something that weirds me out. 

Aliens on the other hand felt consistently more tense throughout the film.  You know the other shoe is going to drop, you just don't know when.  The different styles between the two films are what made the series last so long imo.

To be truthful, Aliens shouldn't be as scary as Alien.  If you have seen the first film, you know what the Alien is all about in the second.  Different tacts are needed to keep the series alive.

And while I definately do no care for the series direction that Prometheus went in, I do appreciate that the attempt was not just Alien again told through the fifth iteration. 

Basically due to the law of diminishing returns you have to try new things in the series..........otherwise it just fades into obscurity.  You either have to up the stakes, change the mode of storytelling (going from horror, to action, to drama etc) move the series in another direction etc.

It's like when I play the Alien invasion of earth scenario in my head, I don't see Aliens 2.0, but kind of a way for a storyteller to tell what a future earth would be like that suddenly comes to a grinding halt with the Alien invasion, with a small group of survivors trying to reach a shelter or get off world or something.  Not massive armies vs massive hordes of Aliens.

Telling an Aliens 2.0 would only benefit its release initially.  If it just told the exact same story with the exact same story beats with only more aliens and more marines audiences would quickly realize this and not come back to it after a while.  Gotta throw some different spice on what you are cooking. 

[Voodoo Magic]

Horror by definition:
a) an intense feeling of fear, shock, or disgust.

The investigation of the colony, then the hive, is full of tension, like Kane. There are ample shocks throughout the film

Where you disgusted? How often were you feeling fear, shock, and disgust. Alien had it from opening till the airlock for me.

You substituted or for and. Disgust is not a prerequisite for horror.

[Huggs]

I believe Cameron spoke about not relying too heavily on the gore and such in Aliens.

[Voodoo Magic]

Indeed he did Huggsy! For me personally, the best, most unnerving horror never requires gore. I would go as far as saying gore would diminish it!

[Immortan Jonesy]

And while I definately do no care for the series direction that Prometheus went in, I do appreciate that the attempt was not just Alien again told through the fifth iteration. 

Basically due to the law of diminishing returns you have to try new things in the series..........otherwise it just fades into obscurity.  You either have to up the stakes, change the mode of storytelling (going from horror, to action, to drama etc) move the series in another direction etc.

It's like when I play the Alien invasion of earth scenario in my head, I don't see Aliens 2.0, but kind of a way for a storyteller to tell what a future earth would be like that suddenly comes to a grinding halt with the Alien invasion, with a small group of survivors trying to reach a shelter or get off world or something.  Not massive armies vs massive hordes of Aliens.

Telling an Aliens 2.0 would only benefit its release initially.  If it just told the exact same story with the exact same story beats with only more aliens and more marines audiences would quickly realize this and not come back to it after a while.  Gotta throw some different spice on what you are cooking.

Yes, PROMETHEUS is a genuine attempt to do something different despite its flaws, and while ALIEN³ is a good Alien movie, I think after ALIENS it was time to do something really different.  I know people disagree, but I think ALIENS was the best sequel ALIEN could have had, and after that it was time to come up with something special, instead of trying to be Alien again. In fact, Blomkamp's project seemed to be nothing but a bigger & badder ALIENS , and that's one of the reasons why it doesn't bother me that it wasn't done.

I have mixed feelings with the Alien invasion of Earth, because on the one hand it can be a terrible idea, but on the other it can establish that the Aliens are an unstoppable threat, which will not always be stopped by a heroine in a spaceship or colony on another planet, so the Aliens could become the end of mankind, somehow.

Now, how can you achieve that in a credible way? I have no idea. But I do think there are a couple of things to keep in mind:

• It has to be in the future, since that way you do not contradict continuity and at the same time you show a futuristic planet Earth, which is more interesting than today.
  
  



• It doesn't have to be James Cameron's ALIENS again. You have to somehow do something special and genuinely different, even though there is combat between Aliens and Marines.

Ok this might not be the best example at all, but the recent movie THE WAR OF TOMORROW left me wondering about that possibility, since in the story...

Spoiler

The Earth is attacked by vicious alien monsters, with very fast reproduction. In the end, the protagonists discover that the invaders are biological weapons sent by an unknown civilization thousands of years ago (the capsule that transported the queen and the warriors was buried in a Russian glacier. 

[close]

And so far, the prequels presented a different direction, trying to incorporate existential gothic horror into myths, but ultimately it is an esoteric concept and not something universally acclaimed, and it seems to have worked better with the RAISED By WOLVES universe, which has nothing to do with Alien. Actually, I think elements of the prequels have grown in a good way thanks to Alex White. Something more or less similar happened with the STAR WARS prequels. I mean, Scott is a better director than Lucas, but the end result went through something similar: much of that lore has been able to really shine thanks to the interquelish works of talented people like Jon Favreau & Dave Filoni.

That said, I hope Noah Hawley hires Alex White as a creative consultant, since the TV series is the next installment. 

[City Hunter Yautja]

Your critiques of Ripley are valid. I think I didn't notice them as much because the wider cast takes your attention off her until the last 20mins which is all her. I agree with you, Ripley comes off a little too zealous and bossy in those scenes, especially on LV-421's Colony. She's a civilian, but is giving orders. She also doesn't seemes horrified enough, I mean at the beginning of the film she has PTSD and fears becoming a hist, but in also her scenes on LV she is calm, composed, and frankly lacking the craven demeanor from earlier in the film.

Ripley is better in Alien and Alien 3 I agree. There her behavior seems more realistic. James Cameron made Ripley too much of Linda Hamilton/ Sarah Conner T2 knock off (even though I realize T2 came later).

I think the facehugger scene lacks tension because its Ripley and Newt. Had they been released on everyone, and Hutson got one on his face, that would have been a fitting end to him; loudest and most talkative guy gets his pie hole stuffed with facehugger. Perhaps Burke even getting a facehugger on him too, some reverse justice since he released them.

While I likes the Alien Queen vs Ripley in the Loader, the scene when she opens the airlock and Queen Alien holds on to her leg is ridiculous. Her leg would have snapped or tore off.

While I love Aliens, I admit it has flaws. Like any movie we overlook the flaws because the full product is well done. I think Aliens is well done, but yes, Cameron went over the top in areas.

Thanks and thanks for sharing your thoughts. Cool!

Your ideas about who to facehug would be entertaining if they could find life in an "Elseworlds" story or something. I think a lot of ideas would be fun to explore. As for the huggers, I was (still am) impressed with how the huggers came off as being very dangerous. It took the help of the 3 marines to rescue Ripley from it. But I agree: No way Newt or Ripley would have been hugged there. Plot armor! Maybe Ripley was a sort of prototype for T2 Sarah Connor, the same way the Betty crew was a prototype for the crew on Firefly. Or maybe James Cameron has a thing for tough women. I really think, with Ripley's briefing in hand, T2+ Sarah Connor would have a surprise or two for our favorite space parasite.  Also, in crossover hell, who in their right mind would stand against those two heroines?

On other related posts...
I think SiL mentioned something about Ripley being anti-authority and bossy. She certainly turned out that way, especially after Ash showed her the true nature of life in corporate space.  And WY execs went out of their way to reinforce her distrust. She started out by-the-book, but always thinking.

If you look at her timeline, in terms of awake time, original Ellen Ripley was a short-lived character. She was awake a few days on the Nostromo. She was asleep 57 years. Too bad she couldn't have access to cryosleep training programs as in Demolition Man. Then she was awake for a while on Gateway station. It was likely weeks, a couple months(?) before she left - Long enough to get a dock job and learn to drive a powerloader like a pro. Asleep for the return to LV426. Awake on the ship and on the planet for a few days total? Asleep on the Sulaco until it caught on fire. Ejected onto Fiorina. Awake for a few more days or a week until she died. She transformed a lot over a short period of awake time. 

Rupley is badass no doubt about it. Its just I felt more of a connection with her PTSD self in earlier part of the film. I think he going Rambk works, but I just think we don't see her horror over the hist lifecycle again till Alien3 (I mean the autopsy of Newt was disturbing).

Horror by definition:
a) an intense feeling of fear, shock, or disgust.

The investigation of the colony, then the hive, is full of tension, like Kane. There are ample shocks throughout the film

Where you disgusted? How often were you feeling fear, shock, and disgust. Alien had it from opening till the airlock for me.

You substituted or for and. Disgust is not a prerequisite for horror.

I stand corrected, thank you Elder. *makes fealty Yautja roar*

I shall say for me, horror has to have the disgust aspect, the messing with my mind as you get Hypochondria like moments and seeing not just the gore but the mutilation on screen or off screen; Newt's autopsy was more cringeworthy to me than Kane's chestbuster. To me Alien and Alien3 had the balance of fear, shock, and disgust, while Aliens lacked the disgust for me by comparison.

[SiL]

Much classic horror doesn't - and couldn't - feature disgusting moments, and I feel it's a pity to discredit all of them for want of some blood.

[City Hunter Yautja]

While I enjoy the Powerloader Ripley vs The Queen, it did feel very much like something to sport a ride at Universal Studios. For that reason it takes me out of the movie at moments.