Ask Steve Perry

Started by Corporal Hicks, May 06, 2007, 09:22:14 PM

Author
Ask Steve Perry (Read 188,446 times)

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#735
In that instance you both very over-reacted IMHO - sure, I didn't balance it very properly. And also, my original post was over 2 years ago. People and opinions change. I'll take the chance now to appologize. But like I said, I rave about Perry's Turnabout and I really enjoy Prey, Nightmare Asylum and etc.

Mr. Domino

Mr. Domino

#736
Well, I still don't understand how I overreacted in that situation, but this isn't the place for that discussion.

...I still need to find a copy of Turnabout...

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#737
Question for Mr. Perry here, and I browsed through this thread to make sure that this question hasn't been asked already but, anyway--

For amature and aspiring writers out there who struggling with a means to find a source of inspiration to overcome their writer's block, what advice do you have to help them overcome such situations? Have you ever been conflicted with writer's block and if you have, what did you do to break through it?

-Rakai'Thwei

xenomorph36

xenomorph36

#738
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 25, 2009, 05:49:27 PM
In that instance you both very over-reacted IMHO - sure, I didn't balance it very properly. And also, my original post was over 2 years ago. People and opinions change. I'll take the chance now to appologize. But like I said, I rave about Perry's Turnabout and I really enjoy Prey, Nightmare Asylum and etc.

actually you have a point. I didnt realize your post was 2 years old. I myself isnt old either (only 23) . I use to be a lot more immature 2 years ago (looking back at my previous posts) . People grow and so do we.  :)

RagingDragon

RagingDragon

#739
I've said my piece, I know those comments were a long time ago.  It's hard to keep in mind; I just registered on these forums so for me, I read them 2 days ago.

It's not what you say, but how you say it, and there really isn't a "how you say it" with text, so you have to be careful what you say if being respectful is important.  Even saying "I feel that" before you insult someone will more-or-less take the sting off of it.  The comments were just thrown out there like they were quantifiable scientific fact imparted on us mortals from god.  Silly.

And if you want to point the finger at me, please do.  I fully acknowledge that I was insulting, angry, and vengeful.  I had purpose, but I wouldn't lash out like that for no good reason, much less at someone who I should respect as knowing more than me about the topic up for discussion.

It's all the intricacies of debate, which used to be important.  Sadly, not so much anymore.  Go figure, but you learn and you go on.

I hope Steve Perry comes back!  I have a question!  :)

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#740
Like I said, my original post was over 2 years ago. People change. And so has my own understanding of the english language and the way in which I wield my words. If I'm being completely honest, I have no idea why I said such a thing. But that's in the past.

Vulhala

Vulhala

#741
I think everyone should have a coke and a smile  ;D

steveperry

steveperry

#742
Been a while since  I had time to drop round ...

A generic post, not aimed at anybody in particular, but to some basic issues:

While I appreciate those of you who stick up for me -- or for the quaint concepts that sometimes get lost on the internet -- civility and polite discourse, I'm a big boy and comfortable with my skills when it comes to taking care of myself.

A lot of what gets put forth over the anonymous net with people hiding behind netnoms would never get said if it had to be delivered face-to-face. Easy to be brave when nobody knows who you are. Remember that scene where Jay and Silent Bob hunt down their internet critics and kick their asses ... ? I loved that.

We all have opinions and we are allowed to hold them. It's easier to convince folks in a debate if you take the time to offer your views clearly and with a modicum of open-mindedness -- if you kick in the door start name-calling, that pretty much kills any chance of reasonable debate, least in my view it does.

Oh, look. It's another asshole. Yawn.

Debate has rules, and can be useful in giving folks information that might sway them this way or that; pointing your finger and saying "You suk!" (and spelling it wrong) isn't going to impress anybody with your intelligence or wit, or how your mama raised you.

I hear that, I turn the power-off knob. I'm not listening any more. Why would I? Life is too short.

What I think about the xenomorphs, the preds, or the combinations thereof is what I think. If you disagree, surely you are allowed to say so. I've probably said that ten times here. But if you want to convince me that you are right and I'm not, the burden of proof is on you. That's how it works. And it does seem as if some of you want to convince me.

When it comes to who is smarter, A's or P's, nobody has convinced me to change my opinion. I still think your average xenomorph drone is maybe as bright as a German Shepherd Dog and they can't hold an intellectual candle to the Predators. My opinion.

I'm not asking anybody to kiss my ass -- you should call it like you see it. On the other hand, what I offer in my defense is that I have been one of the guys down in the trenches doing this work, going back to the first novels, and that does give me experience dealing with stories, plots, the people who own the franchise, editors, what's allowed and what isn't, and all that jazz that most of the folks who show up here don't have. There are a lot of folks out there who know more about these universes than I. But there aren't a lot of folks who have written more books in them than I have, so that does buy me a little bit of, I don't know, confidence, when it comes to talking about such things.

I know more about that part than you.

If you think I can't write for sour owl poot, that's okay, taste is taste. But if you are going to offer me lessons in how to do plot and character and motivations, then I need to see why I should pay attention. If you've never sold fiction, it's possible that you are better at it than I am, but that's not the way the smart money bets.

I like talking to fans. Even if we disagree, polite and well-mannered ones are more fun to deal with than those who swagger in with a chips on their shoulders and something to prove. If you can't see why, that almost certainly puts you into the latter category.

Steve

P.S. To the query: I haven't had writer's block yet. The best way I've found to avoid it is to have more than one project going at any given time. If you don't want to work on one, work on a different one for a while. Plenty of days I don't feel like working, but once I sit down and start cranking, I can find something to write, even if I have to rewrite or trash most of it later. Writer's block means you can't write, not that you don't feel like it ...

Mr. Domino

Mr. Domino

#743
This post made my day. Also,

Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 01:04:00 AM
Oh, look. It's another asshole. Yawn.

:D :D :D

MadassAlex

MadassAlex

#744
Sup, Steve.

I do feel that you trivialise the Alien a lot of the time, and at the end of the day the narrative potential of the species suffers because of it. In ALIENS, we witnessed them consciously taking out the main power to at least the Operations complex and avoiding weapons fire through the use of their own hive structures and the human-built colony itself, while in ALIEN: Resurrection, they could grasp basic technology. These are creatures that are, except in the case of Acheron, just a few hours old.

A human can't grasp technology at a few hours and certainly can't understand the technical requirements of a Weyland-Yutani installation at a few weeks of age.

You're not the sole perpetrator of the Aliens-as-fodder viewpoint, but given that you have had and still have a major role in shaping the stories that occur within the franchise, it's disappointing that you shoehorn Aliens, of all creatures, into the cannon fodder role.

While you clearly don't agree, I find that treatment of the Aliens as a waste of excellent visual design and creature concepts, and they begin to lose their luster when the creatures are often dealt with very easily. It removes tension from the role of the Alien, and the stories become less Aliens vs. Predator and more Humans Deal With Predators And Maybe Some Aliens Cause Mischief.
It's like this Predator level in the second Aliens vs. Predator game; you jump out of a split in the ground and before you is a steep hill. It's a fair distance away and creates a neat firing lane. Prepare for one of the most boring moments in the Predator campaign as Aliens attack you in small groups while you whip out the plasma caster and shoot them down as they mindlessly rush towards you.

The Alien vs. Predator movie had its faults, but one of its strong-points was displaying the battles between Aliens and Predators in a more balanced light. There, the Aliens didn't just announce themselves and allow themselves to become targets, but actually acted as per the original movies, using the shadows to their advantage and waiting until their prey was focused elsewhere. The best example of this was in the Celtic vs. Grid fight, after Celtic cut Grid's tail. Grid, being quite clever and quite above German Shepherd intelligence, used his own blood to damage Celtic's armour and bought time for a sneak attack that ultimately led to the battle ending in Grid's favour.

If the concept behind Aliens vs. Predator is Predators engaging in combat with a species that has the capacity to hunt them back, I find it counter-intuitive to display Alien intelligence as that of a German Shepherd, especially when evidence to the contrary is in the movies themselves. The tension comes on which you give the Predators opponents that well and truly surpass them in some ways, and the way Aliens are often written doesn't allow for that. I'm not saying that Aliens have intelligence that surpasses a Predator, but the movies and the commentaries behind them make it clear that they're supposed to be far above non-human entities. Hell, the original concept was that the Alien didn't use technology since its physical perfection outgrew the need for peripherals like weapons and vehicles.

The bottom line with Predators is that they're insanely close to human. It's easy to root for them and even sympathise or empathise with them. Aliens are a different story altogether, being of a psychology not comparable to human or Predator. They make excellent villains because there's no humanity to them - just perfect adaption to the role of survival and killing anything that gets in the way of that. Every Alien should be considered a powerful threat the same way an individual Predator is, because despite its weakness to powerful enough ranged weapons, it's not going to reveal itself. Aliens are far more patient than either humans or Predators, caring only for survival, not the hunt or any human needs.

I'm not saying that Aliens should be dominant without question, but I am saying that their weakness as displayed in your writings (among the works of others) removes a lot of what originally made the Alien an effective monster.

EDIT:

In the commentary of the Director's Cut of ALIENS (1:48:23, to be precise), Cameron addresses the cleverness and intelligence of Aliens directly - this is essentially the word of God unless Scott wants to contradict him:

"Now this is a distinction - I never actually got a sense in the first film that the Alien actually had an intelligence that allowed it to manipulate their technology, but I didn't see that necessarily as a barrier here, because certainly these creatures have been around long, you know. You have to remember, the Alien in the first film had only been alive for twenty-four hours, it was still an infant even though it had grown full size.
These Aliens have had weeks or months to figure things out. There's no reason they couldn't figure out how the electrical system worked and that sort of thing. I'm not saying they're technological, but there's rudimentary stuff. So the implication here is that they're actually pretty clever. And I think it's clear by the end of the film that the Alien Queen knows how to operate an elevator, if nothing else."

So, there you have it, really. The most influential source material of Aliens vs. Predator in terms of the Alien creature, even more so than the original film, directly means to imply that the Aliens are "pretty clever". Not just the Queen, either, but your basic Alien warriors. Even if it were just the Queen, she can clearly communicate to other Aliens and there's no reason to believe that they'd magically forget what she's taught them, especially given that the whole point of the Alien's psychology is to be unknowable.

Aeus

Aeus

#745
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 01:04:00 AM
A lot of what gets put forth over the anonymous net with people hiding behind netnoms would never get said if it had to be delivered face-to-face. Easy to be brave when nobody knows who you are. Remember that scene where Jay and Silent Bob hunt down their internet critics and kick their asses ... ? I loved that.

"I'm gonna kill all these f**ks..."  :D

steveperry

steveperry

#746
With all due respect, the Aliens were designed by an artist going for a horrific look, and their physiology is, at best, cartoonish. That they don't collapse under their own weight is fairly amazing. Hold one up in front of a biologist or a physiologist and stand back as he tells you how efficient their design is for a creature who supposedly came of age in a gravity well.

Second, if you've ever seen dogs run obstacles courses or do herding trials, you will see them do things that in just about every way equals anything the xenos do -- under direction of the Queen. Her, I give props for IQ. They are like bee or ant drones, and not a one of them could pass the Turing Test.

I think that the notion the Aliens might have been "borrowed" from A.E. van Vogt's "Black Destroyer" is one to be considered, and Jim Cameron, much as I love his movies, is not a particularly original science fiction thinker Ask Harlan Ellison ...

This doesn't mean they aren't dangerous, like a tiger is dangerous. Put an unarmed man in a cage with a tiger, I know how I'd bet the outcome. But the drones won't be playing chess for the championship.

Far as I can see it, the xenos are woof! woof! all the way down ...

Steve

SiL

SiL

#747
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 11:02:13 PM
Her, I give props for IQ.
The drones cut the power.

The Queen monkey-saw, monkey-did.

The entire extent of her intelligence was realising that if she went into the elevator she'd go where Ripley went, and that flame = bad ... which as Ash pointed out in the first movie, most animals realise.

Attributing the cutting of the power to the Queen would be quite the stretch, given her entire role in the whole mess is essentially to sit on her ass physically strapped into the hive itself and lay eggs.

An interesting point brought up in another forum, though, is that in Alien, when the alarms start going off, the Alien went into the shuttle - The one quiet place, and the one place less likely to explode in the immediate future. Not saying it realised the whole exploding thing, but that when the ship went berzerk, it went went in the opposite direction.

When the station starts literally falling to pieces in Aliens, the super intelligent Queen ... continues sitting on her ass laying eggs in a dormant state. Admittedly there were still drones in the hive as well, but not many. They were still hanging around the colony ... again, the quiet place less likely to explode soonish.

QuoteI think that the notion the Aliens might have been "borrowed" from A.E. van Vogt's "Black Destroyer" is one to be considered,
When O'Bannon rattled off the laundry list of places he stole Alien from ("I didn't steal Alien from anybody, I stole it from everybody."), I can't remember the Black Destroyer being among them. But it's been a while.

SM

SM

#748
Black Destroyer and Discord in Scarlet are both parts of Van Vogts 'Voyage Of The Space Beagle'.  I've been meaning to read it for a long while, but a quick glance at the plot summaries on Wikipedia reveal the obvious inspiration for both It! and Alien.  From memory they settled with Van Vogt out of court.

MadassAlex

MadassAlex

#749
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 11:02:13 PM
With all due respect, the Aliens were designed by an artist going for a horrific look, and their physiology is, at best, cartoonish. That they don't collapse under their own weight is fairly amazing. Hold one up in front of a biologist or a physiologist and stand back as he tells you how efficient their design is for a creature who supposedly came of age in a gravity well.

Arguable, depending on whether you believe they're exoskeletal or simply have the "lithe metal" skin originally applied to them. The horror thing is pretty dead on, but you gotta admit, it works.  :P

My point remains, whichever way you want to go on their feasibility; their visual presentation was utterly unique and the concept of the creature and the role it plays is excellent. Turning them into something to be killed en mass just feels like a waste of all this, in favour of what is essentially a big-strong space man that you embellished yourself (not that I'm criticising that in particular. You clearly felt the need to bring the Predator a bit closer to us in a few ways).

Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 11:02:13 PMSecond, if you've ever seen dogs run obstacles courses or do herding trials, you will see them do things that in just about every way equals anything the xenos do -- under direction of the Queen. Her, I give props for IQ. They are like bee or ant drones, and not a one of them could pass the Turing Test.

No real evidence to support this. It might've been implied, perhaps, if there wasn't substantial evidence of Aliens acting wisely under their own initiative.

After all, the Queen can only command her troops - there's no way she can have an real-time map concept of the colony and can command her Alien warriors to do specific tasks. It's far more likely and feasible that she instructs them on what the objective is and what area it looks like it'll be in and they figure everything else out themselves.

Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 11:02:13 PMI think that the notion the Aliens might have been "borrowed" from A.E. van Vogt's "Black Destroyer" is one to be considered, and Jim Cameron, much as I love his movies, is not a particularly original science fiction thinker Ask Harlan Ellison ...

The Alien wasn't stolen from anyone - it was stolen from everyone. Doesn't stop the end product from being something well-designed, iconic and dramatically useful.

Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 11:02:13 PMThis doesn't mean they aren't dangerous, like a tiger is dangerous. Put an unarmed man in a cage with a tiger, I know how I'd bet the outcome. But the drones won't be playing chess for the championship.

Sure. The Alien = big cat scenario always seemed flawed to me, though. For one thing, all the original Alien concepts had it as something of either incredible intelligence or, as we saw on film, unknowable psychology. Every scene that trivialised the horror or made it seem more conventionally animal was cut, and cut for a reason. "Crab-walking" up to Lambert and messing with the crew's lockers to find food are good examples.

The point isn't so much for me to display the Alien as a genius, but as competent. One of my major issues with almost all the EU material is that it makes Aliens look like this dumb things that'll run headlong into fire and/or weaklings (in the scope of AvP) that'll go down to one or two pistol rounds (when the one Vasquez shot at close range about eight times was still writhing after she let go of it).

What frightfulness can come of that monster? It's simply too easily dealt with to be threatening, while the Predator is humanised and therefore loses a lot of its dramatic tension in a different way. When Aliens are weak enemies and Predators can be bargained with (or at least follow a strict honour code rather than just looking for the thrill of the hunt), what's left to fear?

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