I'm not quite sure where to put this, or whether I should at all... I remember ages ago I started a topic about Scientology, and that got some rather good discussion going, so I think this topic has an audience here.
Let me just start by saying that yes, I am an Atheist.
Atheism deals in what you believe. Example, I think the God of scripture is unlikely to exist.
Agnosticism deals in what you don't know. Example, I have no way of knowing if the God of scripture is real or not.
You can be both Agnostic and Atheist at the same time. Example, I am not convinced by your claim that God exists, but I cannot say it is impossible.
Personally, I am a strong Atheist and an Antitheist. Strong Atheist means I am thoroughly unswayed by any God claims made to me, and am more inclined to believe that Gods do not exist in any form. Antitheism, however, is more of a social position then a theological one, meaning opposition to organized religion in society.
I'll hold off on explaining my reasons for my positions just now, as I'd like to open the floor to other members.
Are any members of AVPGalaxy Atheist?
I can respect this.
I am an Atheist.
I'm an agnostic.
Atheist here as well. I don't believe any of the magical spiritual stuff that was shoved into my face as a kid. I lol every time my mom forgets that I don't believe in god or any of that stuff. Only other thing I can add is that I stopped believing once I was halfway through 8 years of age.
Atheist and Agnostic here. I undestand people who do believe in god. I have friends of different religions and I respect them. I Just don't like being forced that kinda stuff down my throat.
Agnostic Apatheist.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 01, 2013, 05:01:45 AM
Agnostic Apatheist.
Now that's a new one to me o.O Wiki'd it. Atheism is a very big topic with me, so learning something new is always nice.
Does anyone subscribe to any Youtube Atheists? Thunderfoot, AronRa, DPR Jones, Matt Dillahunty, Logicked, NonStampCollector, Potholer, ect.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 05:09:10 AM
Does anyone subscribe to any Youtube Atheists? Thunderfoot, AronRa, DPR Jones, Matt Dillahunty, Logicked, NonStampCollector, Potholer, ect.
I don't know. I don't really pay much attention to a user's belief, and I personally think if you have an entire channel based around your beliefs you're just being asinine.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 05:09:10 AM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 01, 2013, 05:01:45 AM
Agnostic Apatheist.
Now that's a new one to me o.O Wiki'd it. Atheism is a very big topic with me, so learning something new is always nice.
Does anyone subscribe to any Youtube Atheists? Thunderfoot, AronRa, DPR Jones, Matt Dillahunty, Logicked, NonStampCollector, Potholer, ect.
AronRA, and The Amazing Atheist for me.
I'm Catholic
Quote from: RazorSlash on Sep 01, 2013, 05:14:38 AM
I don't know. I don't really pay much attention to a user's belief, and I personally think if you have an entire channel based around your beliefs you're just being asinine.
Okay, if a Youtube channel based on your beliefs is asinine, what does that make creating a world spanning, tax exempt organization based around your beliefs? If one is asinine, then the other must be more so by your logic.
This is one of my main issues, organized Religion being cultural background noise. People tend to look at it differently then they do other entities like corporations or governments, and there's no reason for this other then generations of taboo over questioning it.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 01, 2013, 05:16:56 AM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 01, 2013, 05:16:12 AM
I'm Catholic
How does the old Catholic guilt feel
eh, 9/10 times I don't suffer from this. I'm an extremely laid back Catholic, my best friends is an Atheist, Christian and Agnostic respectivly, and my girlfriend identifies as Wiccan. I don't regularly go to church and I believe that there's no way we're the only life in the universe. I recognize and admit that science answers a lot, but nothings ever shaken my beliefs.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 05:22:29 AM
Okay, if a Youtube channel based on your beliefs is asinine,
I said if you make an entire channel based on your beliefs in general, is being asinine. Someone could make an entire "LOL I'M AGNOSTIC ISN'T THAT GREAT" channel and I'd still find them asinine. We separate people by race and religion far too much.
He implied that any channel that details it's beliefs, non-theistic or theistic is asinine.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 01, 2013, 05:24:39 AM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 01, 2013, 05:16:56 AM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 01, 2013, 05:16:12 AM
I'm Catholic
How does the old Catholic guilt feel
eh, 9/10 times I don't suffer from this. I'm an extremely laid back Catholic, my best friends is an Atheist, Christian and Agnostic respectivly, and my girlfriend identifies as Wiccan. I don't regularly go to church and I believe that there's no way we're the only life in the universe. I recognize and admit that science answers a lot, but nothings ever shaken my beliefs.
I was raised Catholic so I know it well :p
I was raised Catholic, my parents are still a little annoyed that I'm agnostic. My father is flat out in denial :-\
"I don't know what you read on the internet, but you're Catholic. You don't have a say in that."
-Actual quote from my father when I told him I was agnostic
Quote from: RazorSlash on Sep 01, 2013, 05:27:17 AM
I was raised Catholic, my parents are still a little annoyed that I'm agnostic. My father is flat out in denial :-\
"I don't know what you read on the internet, but you're Catholic. You don't have a say in that."
-Actual quote from my father when I told him I was agnostic
you can never leave
Quote from: RazorSlash on Sep 01, 2013, 05:25:25 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 05:22:29 AM
Okay, if a Youtube channel based on your beliefs is asinine,
I said if you make an entire channel based on your beliefs in general, is being asinine.
I'm afraid I don't understand the difference your trying to make :/ Could you be a little more clear?
Quote from: RazorSlash on Sep 01, 2013, 05:27:17 AM
I was raised Catholic, my parents are still a little annoyed that I'm agnostic. My father is flat out in denial :-\
"I don't know what you read on the internet, but you're Catholic. You don't have a say in that."
-Actual quote from my father when I told him I was agnostic
I told my dad I felt like past lives where possible once. The most he said to me was "Since we're Catholic we're not supposed to believe in that"
I'm lucky and I've had pretty relaxed parents.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 05:30:16 AM
Quote from: RazorSlash on Sep 01, 2013, 05:25:25 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 05:22:29 AM
Okay, if a Youtube channel based on your beliefs is asinine,
I said if you make an entire channel based on your beliefs in general, is being asinine. Someone could make an entire "LOL I'M AGNOSTIC ISN'T THAT GREAT" channel and I'd still find them asinine. We separate people by race and religion far too much.
I'm afraid I don't understand the difference your trying to make :/ Could you be a little more clear?
You shouldn't single yourself out because of your beliefs. Be your own man. Don't try and be a "messenger", if you will, of your beliefs. Just accept that other people believe different and let it be.
If you start a YouTube channel that is
focused on the fact that you believe a certain thing, you're being asinine. Kinda like "I believe this and all my subscribers should too, because I'm right!".
And you still haven't answered why this is acceptable behaviour in the case of proselytizing, and not acceptable behaviour in the case of opposing said proselytizing.
Razor is in no way even arguing anything of that sort. He's saying that ANY channel based on a personal belief system is just dumb. One example would be a channel based on the belief that dinosaurs still walk among us, and forcing that idea on others. Razor is saying that channels like this are asinine. He's saying that he doesn't care about things like that. I doubt that this strictly applies just to youtube channels, but to anything else you would find elsewhere, like a group of people prancing around and preaching their stuff to you, and you not giving the slightest of f**ks about it.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 05:35:24 AM
And you still haven't answered why this is acceptable behaviour in the case of proselytizing, and not acceptable behaviour in the case of opposing said proselytizing.
He thinks any form of 'preaching', theistic preaching/non-theistic preaching, is asinine.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 05:35:24 AM
And you still haven't answered why this is acceptable behaviour in the case of proselytizing, and not acceptable behaviour in the case of opposing said proselytizing.
I never said anything about that. I said I didn't like YouTubers who use base a channel around their belief and use it as a "selling point", if you will. I didn't say anything about converting or anything similar to that. I think we're having two separate conversations.
Ah, then I misunderstood and I apologize :)
To clarify, these channels aren't popularized because "Hey, that guys an Atheist, like me, I should listen to him". They're not VLOGs on the persons life, they're dedicated to the topic of Religion and Science and modern events, not the person who owns the channel.
S'alright.
Well, I'm for sure not atheist... everything else is still a matter of small debate within myself, Protestant vs Spiritual.
I don't really know what I believe yet, most of the time I don't believe in a higher power but sometimes things come up and it make me question my beliefs
We're pattern seeking creatures. It's in our nature to turn the unknown into knowledge wherever we can. Just sometimes we settle for feeling like we know something, instead of admitting that there's a question we can't answer right now.
I really like Douglas Adams explanation on why the idea of a God even came about, I mean it's pretty obvious. But he explains it pretty well.
Spoiler
"Where does the idea of God come from? Well, I think we have a very skewed point of view on an awful lot of things, but let's try and see where our point of view comes from. Imagine early man. Early man is, like everything else, an evolved creature and he finds himself in a world that he's begun to take a little charge of; he's begun to be a tool-maker, a changer of his environment with the tools that he's made and he makes tools, when he does, in order to make changes in his environment. To give an example of the way man operates compared to other animals, consider speciation, which, as we know, tends to occur when a small group of animals gets separated from the rest of the herd by some geological upheaval, population pressure, food shortage or whatever and finds itself in a new environment with maybe something different going on. Take a very simple example; maybe a bunch of animals suddenly finds itself in a place where the weather is rather colder. We know that in a few generations those genes which favour a thicker coat will have come to the fore and we'll come and we'll find that the animals have now got thicker coats. Early man, who's a tool maker, doesn't have to do this: he can inhabit an extraordinarily wide range of habitats on earth, from tundra to the Gobi Desert - he even manages to live in New York for heaven's sake - and the reason is that when he arrives in a new environment he doesn't have to wait for several generations; if he arrives in a colder environment and sees an animal that has those genes which favour a thicker coat, he says "I'll have it off him". Tools have enabled us to think intentionally, to make things and to do things to create a world that fits us better. Now imagine an early man surveying his surroundings at the end of a happy day's tool making. He looks around and he sees a world which pleases him mightily: behind him are mountains with caves in - mountains are great because you can go and hide in the caves and you are out of the rain and the bears can't get you; in front of him there's the forest - it's got nuts and berries and delicious food; there's a stream going by, which is full of water - water's delicious to drink, you can float your boats in it and do all sorts of stuff with it; here's cousin Ug and he's caught a mammoth - mammoth's are great, you can eat them, you can wear their coats, you can use their bones to create weapons to catch other mammoths. I mean this is a great world, it's fantastic. But our early man has a moment to reflect and he thinks to himself, 'well, this is an interesting world that I find myself in' and then he asks himself a very treacherous question, a question which is totally meaningless and fallacious, but only comes about because of the nature of the sort of person he is, the sort of person he has evolved into and the sort of person who has thrived because he thinks this particular way. Man the maker looks at his world and says 'So who made this then?' Who made this? - you can see why it's a treacherous question. Early man thinks, 'Well, because there's only one sort of being I know about who makes things, whoever made all this must therefore be a much bigger, much more powerful and necessarily invisible, one of me and because I tend to be the strong one who does all the stuff, he's probably male'. And so we have the idea of a god. Then, because when we make things we do it with the intention of doing something with them, early man asks himself , 'If he made it, what did he make it for?' Now the real trap springs, because early man is thinking, 'This world fits me very well. Here are all these things that support me and feed me and look after me; yes, this world fits me nicely' and he reaches the inescapable conclusion that whoever made it, made it for him."
That's a very interesting view on the development of Deities.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 01, 2013, 07:07:38 AM
I really like Douglas Adams explanation on why the idea of a God even came about, I mean it's pretty obvious. But he explains it pretty well.
Spoiler
"Where does the idea of God come from? Well, I think we have a very skewed point of view on an awful lot of things, but let's try and see where our point of view comes from. Imagine early man. Early man is, like everything else, an evolved creature and he finds himself in a world that he's begun to take a little charge of; he's begun to be a tool-maker, a changer of his environment with the tools that he's made and he makes tools, when he does, in order to make changes in his environment. To give an example of the way man operates compared to other animals, consider speciation, which, as we know, tends to occur when a small group of animals gets separated from the rest of the herd by some geological upheaval, population pressure, food shortage or whatever and finds itself in a new environment with maybe something different going on. Take a very simple example; maybe a bunch of animals suddenly finds itself in a place where the weather is rather colder. We know that in a few generations those genes which favour a thicker coat will have come to the fore and we'll come and we'll find that the animals have now got thicker coats. Early man, who's a tool maker, doesn't have to do this: he can inhabit an extraordinarily wide range of habitats on earth, from tundra to the Gobi Desert - he even manages to live in New York for heaven's sake - and the reason is that when he arrives in a new environment he doesn't have to wait for several generations; if he arrives in a colder environment and sees an animal that has those genes which favour a thicker coat, he says "I'll have it off him". Tools have enabled us to think intentionally, to make things and to do things to create a world that fits us better. Now imagine an early man surveying his surroundings at the end of a happy day's tool making. He looks around and he sees a world which pleases him mightily: behind him are mountains with caves in - mountains are great because you can go and hide in the caves and you are out of the rain and the bears can't get you; in front of him there's the forest - it's got nuts and berries and delicious food; there's a stream going by, which is full of water - water's delicious to drink, you can float your boats in it and do all sorts of stuff with it; here's cousin Ug and he's caught a mammoth - mammoth's are great, you can eat them, you can wear their coats, you can use their bones to create weapons to catch other mammoths. I mean this is a great world, it's fantastic. But our early man has a moment to reflect and he thinks to himself, 'well, this is an interesting world that I find myself in' and then he asks himself a very treacherous question, a question which is totally meaningless and fallacious, but only comes about because of the nature of the sort of person he is, the sort of person he has evolved into and the sort of person who has thrived because he thinks this particular way. Man the maker looks at his world and says 'So who made this then?' Who made this? - you can see why it's a treacherous question. Early man thinks, 'Well, because there's only one sort of being I know about who makes things, whoever made all this must therefore be a much bigger, much more powerful and necessarily invisible, one of me and because I tend to be the strong one who does all the stuff, he's probably male'. And so we have the idea of a god. Then, because when we make things we do it with the intention of doing something with them, early man asks himself , 'If he made it, what did he make it for?' Now the real trap springs, because early man is thinking, 'This world fits me very well. Here are all these things that support me and feed me and look after me; yes, this world fits me nicely' and he reaches the inescapable conclusion that whoever made it, made it for him."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgflscOmW8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgflscOmW8#ws)
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 01, 2013, 07:26:22 AM
I didn't read it, laugh out loud
Very well, something more entertaining!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY#)
Agnostic, but I might as well consider myself an atheist. Only reason I mark down as 'agnostic' is because intelligent design has always been such a fascinating concept to me, even if it's just an incomprehensible platform for life itself. Yes, that's right, I'm agnostic because I wrap myself up in sci-fi concepts. I still don't believe that there is any use or value in worshiping the manufactured, earthly unknown, no matter what people claim to have experienced or have chronicled. It would require a mass-experienced revelation to change that.
By 'intelligence design' (I don't know if that's a typo or not) do you mean Creationism, or just things in fiction, like Stargate Universe?
That was a typo.
Thought so :) Though question stands.
For the question, nope, not creationism, just things that we can only portray in fiction, things as mysterious as the nature of the infinite void we live in.
I would really love for this thread to remain civil and level-headed as it has so far, so good OP, Sabby.
Thank you for clarifying ^^ I hope it stays civil as well, so I'll ask that no one mention the existence of Prometheus. Retarded Creationist scumbags like VenomfangX and NephilimFree are welcome to be discussed, but the main characters of Prometheus? Nope.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 07:52:03 AM
Thank you for clarifying ^^ I hope it stays civil as well, so I'll ask that no one mention the existence of Prometheus. Retarded Creationist scumbags like VenomfangX and NephilimFree are welcome to be discussed, but the main characters of Prometheus? Nope.
Wants things to remain civil, called a creationist a retard.
I don't think it's uncivil to call someone who regularly displays stupidity stupid. The civility I ask to keep is between the participants of the discussion. Do feel free to express any personal feelings or convictions you hold, as long as they don't result in being rude or uncivil to other members, and with the understanding that these convictions can and likely will be questioned by others.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 01, 2013, 05:29:27 AM
Quote from: RazorSlash on Sep 01, 2013, 05:27:17 AM
I was raised Catholic, my parents are still a little annoyed that I'm agnostic. My father is flat out in denial :-\
"I don't know what you read on the internet, but you're Catholic. You don't have a say in that."
-Actual quote from my father when I told him I was agnostic
you can never leave
I left.
My parents were genuinely devastated when I told them that not only did I not believe in ''God'' even if it could be proven to me that he existed I wouldn't worship him.
My religion is science. :)
I've heard so many people call Atheism and Science 'a religion' with a completely straight face xD (not you, I'm pretty sure your kidding :)) Because, ya know... we believe in Evolution in exactly the same way that others believe in dirt being changed into a human being by spoken word 6000 years ago. They're both equally valid theories, you understand.
I'm not getting into a debate over a 4-word post that wasn't even meant to be taken as being serious in the first place. Not worth it. :-\
Sorry, I edited my post too late D= I know you were joking, I wasn't trying to imply you seriously thought Science is a Religion, just that many people actually do believe that.
Atheist. My family disregarded religion in the early 60's. My gran was a Catholic and my grandad was a Protestant. Their families didn't want them to marry so they eloped and religion's been absent ever since. My fiance is a Catholic, or was. Not anymore.
I like Einstein's pantheism, or how the Straight Dope explained the idea of a God:
QuoteThomas [Aquinas] has shown us a couple things. First, the distinction between a chronological first cause and a sustaining first cause is in fact crucial, as we'll see.
Second, although Thomas labors mightily in the Summa to establish the attributes of God, one of which is personhood, no one can seriously claim the result is a personal God — the warm and fuzzy but also detail-obsessed entity who, if you were Roman Catholic, would condemn you to eternal fire if you died unshriven after eating meat on Friday prior to 1962.
Thomas's work is considered the definitive explication of Catholic theology. From this we deduce that, from the standpoint of one of the world's great religions, an impersonal, abstract, and frankly mechanistic God is nonetheless God.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3021/is-there-a-god (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3021/is-there-a-god)
"an impersonal, abstract, and frankly mechanistic God is nonetheless God" - so the Big Bang could be called God, even though it was simply a one-off, impersonal and non-anthropomorphic event with no consciousness, desires or grand plan of its own.
Quote from: Valaquen on Sep 01, 2013, 03:28:52 PM
"an impersonal, abstract, and frankly mechanistic God is nonetheless God" - so the Big Bang could be called God, even though it was simply a one-off, impersonal and non-anthropomorphic event with no consciousness, desires or grand plan of its own.
To determine that, we'd have to settle on a definition for the word God, and if we even move onward from there and say The Big Bang is a God, it would still be a moot conclusion, as we'd have to drastically change, maybe even completely abandon what we consider a God to be in order to reach that.
I'm very much an atheist.
I haven't really seen any conversations about why 99% of the thread is atheist. Just sayin'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHmTqoLjlXo# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHmTqoLjlXo#)
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 01, 2013, 09:43:05 PM
I haven't really seen any conversations about why 99% of the thread is atheist. Just sayin'
So you want people to converse about why they don't believe in [G]od? The logic kind of presents itself.
Sweeper has a point.
What are you going to talk about?
"So yea... I don't believe in gods... yep."
Where do you go from there?
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 03:11:09 PM
I've heard so many people call Atheism and Science 'a religion' with a completely straight face xD (not you, I'm pretty sure your kidding :)) Because, ya know... we believe in Evolution in exactly the same way that others believe in dirt being changed into a human being by spoken word 6000 years ago. They're both equally valid theories, you understand.
I hope you're kidding.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 01, 2013, 10:32:15 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 03:11:09 PM
I've heard so many people call Atheism and Science 'a religion' with a completely straight face xD (not you, I'm pretty sure your kidding :)) Because, ya know... we believe in Evolution in exactly the same way that others believe in dirt being changed into a human being by spoken word 6000 years ago. They're both equally valid theories, you understand.
I hope you're kidding.
I'm dead serious. People believe Atheism and Science are Religions.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 10:34:35 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 01, 2013, 10:32:15 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 03:11:09 PM
I've heard so many people call Atheism and Science 'a religion' with a completely straight face xD (not you, I'm pretty sure your kidding :)) Because, ya know... we believe in Evolution in exactly the same way that others believe in dirt being changed into a human being by spoken word 6000 years ago. They're both equally valid theories, you understand.
I hope you're kidding.
I'm dead serious. People believe Atheism and Science are Religions.
I know, but I was concerned about
you. Thank you for clearing that up.
:)
Your concern is appreciated, but I am most assuredly in command of my faculties :P
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 10:44:36 PM
Your concern is appreciated, but I am most assuredly in command of my faculties :P
On the Internet, it's kinda difficult knowing if one is ernst, especially when they say that Evolution and Creationism are "equally valid theories".
;)
I'll try harder to be transparantly sarcastic in the future :3
Antitheist. I guess I've just never liked been told what to think.
Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Sep 01, 2013, 11:02:13 PM
Antitheist. I guess I've just never liked been told what to think.
Good, means you're thinking for yourself. :)
Quote from: DC on Sep 01, 2013, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Sep 01, 2013, 11:02:13 PM
Antitheist. I guess I've just never liked been told what to think.
Good, means you're thinking for yourself. :)
People can think for themselves and still have religion
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 01, 2013, 11:09:28 PM
Quote from: DC on Sep 01, 2013, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Sep 01, 2013, 11:02:13 PM
Antitheist. I guess I've just never liked been told what to think.
Good, means you're thinking for yourself. :)
People can think for themselves and still have religion
This, it's not rocket science.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 01, 2013, 11:09:28 PM
Quote from: DC on Sep 01, 2013, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Sep 01, 2013, 11:02:13 PM
Antitheist. I guess I've just never liked been told what to think.
Good, means you're thinking for yourself. :)
People can think for themselves and still have religion
Sometimes people come up with some crazy shit all by themselves.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 01, 2013, 11:09:28 PM
Quote from: DC on Sep 01, 2013, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Sep 01, 2013, 11:02:13 PM
Antitheist. I guess I've just never liked been told what to think.
Good, means you're thinking for yourself. :)
People can think for themselves and still have religion
And yet they have to suspend their critical thinking skills in order to hold ridiculous beliefs. Yes, Religious people can be sensible and intelligent, but consciously adopting ideas that are demonstrably ridiculous is not sensible and intelligent.
I'm inclined to agree with JWP, actually. Everyone is free to come to their own conclusions. I simply don't give a single f**k what other people think, as long as they're not pushing their opinion on others or using their beliefs as excuses for reprehensible behaviour. And of course having faith doesn't stop you thinking for yourself - although it's my opinion that many people do use religion as an excuse not to think, that's clearly not everyone.
On that we're in agreeance.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 11:16:21 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 01, 2013, 11:09:28 PM
Quote from: DC on Sep 01, 2013, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Sep 01, 2013, 11:02:13 PM
Antitheist. I guess I've just never liked been told what to think.
Good, means you're thinking for yourself. :)
People can think for themselves and still have religion
And yet they have to suspend their critical thinking skills in order to hold ridiculous beliefs. Yes, Religious people can be sensible and intelligent, but consciously adopting ideas that are demonstrably ridiculous is not sensible and intelligent.
And atheists can be sensible and intelligent, also. Pity a lot of seem to be smug judgemental arseholes, though.
Quote from: SM on Sep 01, 2013, 11:42:19 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 11:16:21 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 01, 2013, 11:09:28 PM
Quote from: DC on Sep 01, 2013, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Sep 01, 2013, 11:02:13 PM
Antitheist. I guess I've just never liked been told what to think.
Good, means you're thinking for yourself. :)
People can think for themselves and still have religion
And yet they have to suspend their critical thinking skills in order to hold ridiculous beliefs. Yes, Religious people can be sensible and intelligent, but consciously adopting ideas that are demonstrably ridiculous is not sensible and intelligent.
And atheists can be sensible and intelligent, also. Pity a lot of seem to be smug judgemental arseholes, though.
You've hit the nail on the head as to why I don't call myself an Athiest with that one, SM.
I can only speak for myself, but if I seem judgemental at times, it's because I do not respect a certain point in the same way many others will. I do not believe willing, ritualized suspension of logic is something to be accepted and respected.
Ideas must earn respect. Awarding respect to a belief just because 'it's important to someone' is not something I can do.
Anything structured or organized in the way religion or politics can be is not something I can trust.
Quote from: Gilfryd on Sep 02, 2013, 12:14:58 AM
Anything structured or organized in the way religion or politics can be is not something I can trust.
A naR CHyyyyyyyyyyyy
...good luck with that
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 02, 2013, 12:17:30 AM
Quote from: Gilfryd on Sep 02, 2013, 12:14:58 AM
Anything structured or organized in the way religion or politics can be is not something I can trust.
A naR CHyyyyyyyyyyyy
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2F5acca6a53f78e03b4e26de866955edce%2Ftumblr_mjrkj6rpPl1r6wirto1_500.gif&hash=8900b75e512b7bb14ecdf0ee178f9dd6c1be0b17)
Quote from: Gilfryd on Sep 02, 2013, 12:14:58 AM
Anything structured or organized in the way religion or politics can be is not something I can trust.
Oh wow, I am really tired, because I didn't see that 'not' in there until the 4th read x.x I'm guna crash soon I think. Damn.
I can only describe my viewpoint as Ugh.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 02, 2013, 03:18:40 PM
I can only describe my viewpoint as Ugh.
needz context
In the beginning there was only Ugh. Now the circle is complete, and Ugh remains.
:laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2u7JZck_I# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2u7JZck_I#)
Quote from: Gilfryd on Sep 02, 2013, 12:14:58 AMAnything structured or organized in the way religion or politics can be is not something I can trust.
Granted, anarchy and chaos are not the same thing, but politics without some sort of structure will lead to total chaos and catastrophe. Yes, even some structures could still lead to bad things, but overall, structure is better than nothing.
As far as religion goes, structure is a two-way street. With organized religion, you have other people in authority telling you what to believe and that you should stay on one path. Without it, you have many other people telling you zillions of conflicting viewpoints of reality, morality, etc.
As I have mentioned it several times before, it's funny when one religion tells you that the Abrahamic God has a certain set of attributes per Scripture, but another sect says that this god has a different set of attributes (also per the same Scripture) and then you have all these other people who reject Scripture and claim the same god has a totally different set of characteristics. What they all have in common is that they all want to convince me that he exists. It's the greatest snipe hunt ever: "Look for this!" "No, look for that!" "It's whatever you think it is!". If they all could keep their stories straight, they would stand a better chance of convincing me.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 03, 2013, 05:05:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2u7JZck_I# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2u7JZck_I#)
How exciting.
Not an atheist.
I am not a biblical scholar by any means, so I can't answer a lot of questions on scripture. I don't consider myself someone who fits within any religious criteria, no particular denomination. I am no Holy role model by any means. But I have faith. Keeping Jesus in my heart is the inner peace that can't be explained during some of the hardest experiences in my life. I can put them in a spoiler if anyone is interested.
The universe, the galaxy, the Earth, our bodies, nature, science, it's all amazing. Could all of this be accomplished by intelligent design? It is not so hard for me to believe that there is more the life than just this. There have just been too many amazing things happen to me for it all to be coincidence.
I don't push religion on anyone, other people's business is their own. I can't quote scripture, or answer scientific questions, and I don't always walk a straight line. I only know what faith means to me, based on life experiences.
Something that bothers and confuses me; if you don't worship (I say worship rather than ''believe'' because I think it's perfectly possible to believe in a god without worshipping him/her simply because they are a powerful god/being) God, then no matter how good a person you are, you're going to Hell to be tormented and burned in fire for all eternity. For Christians that believe in the word of God/bible with absolute certainty and you believe the above about to Hell regardless of how good a person you are if you don't worship God, then how do you feel about friends/work colleagues etc. who don't worship God. If you believe it all as a fact you know is true, therefore you know that your non-Christian friiend/work friend etc is doomed to Hell. How do you process those thoughts, how do you ''square'' that with yourself?
My mother thinks that my going to Hell when I die (as she believes it, as I'm a non-Christian) is on me, it's entirely my fault. Not Gods fault for condeming me, but my own fault. To me, I can not understand this thinking. I really struggle with the concept of a God that is all knowing, all powerful, omnipotent, perfect judgement and perfect love who is apparently all forgiving that has essentially sentenced me to an eternity being tortured for not worshipping him. I just don't get it. Why doesn't he forgive me for not worshipping him? If he is all knowing and made me, why did he make me with such doubts in him? Why did he make me an atheist? He made me knowing full well that I wouldn't worship him, then sentences me to burn forever. Why would a loving God that made me do this? I genuinely don't get it.
I couldn't imagine going to meet friends, seeing them and knowing that some of them are going to this awful place because they didn't take this ''leap of faith'' as it were by worshipping a God that there is no evidence for (or against, we can't prove he exists and we can't prove he doesn't exist). Sure there's the bible but that's not proof of God. We can't prove that it's Gods words. It's a book that has been translated and retranslated and copied and copied and probably barely resembles whatever the original text was.
What about people not born in Christian communities? What about people who aren't Christians but do have their own God/s? Do they go to Hell for picking the wrong answer? Why would an all loving, all forgiving God even tolerate the exsistence of hell let alone send people there?
My mother accuses me of seeing the world in black & white which I think is bizzare. i think it is her as a (hardcore) Christian that is close minded, she can't see beyond God. I have a pretty open mind, whereas she only sees God. God loves me she says, well if he loves me that much why can't he love me for who I am? Why does he plan to send me to hell?
I'm sure some Christians will say ''he'll forgive you if you repent of your sins and accept him and he'll save you from hell''. Essentially they're saying if I apologise for not worshipping him and immediatly start worshipping him then he'll forgive me otherwise tough luck you're going to Hell. Why is it so important that I worship him and love him above all things? Why is his love and protection from Hell conditional on my worshipping him?
Then of course there's all that stuff in the bible about slavery being ok and stoning missbehaving children, the treatment of women etc etc.
Then of course there's the Noah flood story where God kills a horrifying amount of living things for mans sins.
I simply don't believe in God (or any other other god, not just the Christian God) but even if it could be proved to me that God existed I wouldn't worship him. For all the above reasons I just couldn't worship such a God with a clear conscience.
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on Sep 04, 2013, 07:32:45 PMI am not a biblical scholar by any means, so I can't answer a lot of questions on scripture. I don't consider myself someone who fits within any religious criteria, no particular denomination. I am no Holy role model by any means.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to study scripture, considering that is the origin of Jesus. You might want to read what his creators had to say about him.
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on Sep 04, 2013, 07:32:45 PMBut I have faith. Keeping Jesus in my heart is the inner peace that can't be explained during some of the hardest experiences in my life. I can put them in a spoiler if anyone is interested.
Biochemistry has a lot to do with it.
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on Sep 04, 2013, 07:32:45 PMThe universe, the galaxy, the Earth, our bodies, nature, science, it's all amazing. Could all of this be accomplished by intelligent design? It is not so hard for me to believe that there is more the life than just this.
There can be "all this" and more and you still do not have to believe in intelligent design. Could this be accomplished by intelligent design? Peel back the onion layers and it looks less likely. Plus, considering the way things are, if something "intelligent" had designed us and the rest of the universe, either it was careless or it wasn't too intelligent.
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on Sep 04, 2013, 07:32:45 PMThere have just been too many amazing things happen to me for it all to be coincidence.
Maybe it was coincidence and/or it was some unseen force at play. Until one actually sees that it actually was Jesus or God (or anything else for that matter), it's foolish to rush right out and say it was ___. It's prudent to say we don't know.
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on Sep 04, 2013, 07:32:45 PMI don't push religion on anyone, other people's business is their own. I can't quote scripture, or answer scientific questions, and I don't always walk a straight line. I only know what faith means to me, based on life experiences.
I rather get to the bottom of things than to comfort myself with a warm and fuzzy.
Bjorn, Your saying "why did God make me an atheist?", "why did he make me not believe?" shows me you don't think free will exists. Do you?
QuoteI rather get to the bottom of things than to comfort myself with a warm and fuzzy.
Which I find particularly amusing given your affinity for asses. :laugh:
huh, this thread is actually thriving. Weird... :P
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:24:47 PM
Bjorn, Your saying "why did God make me an atheist?", "why did he make me not believe?" shows me you don't think free will exists. Do you?
I do believe in free will. I meant that from a Christians point of view, assuming this God was all knowing and omnipotent, nothing could happen without him knowing it, thereore if he'd created me surely he would have done so with full knowledge of the person I'd become.
I don't believe in God, I absolutely have free will but theoretically, if God was real and had all the powers some Christians believe he has, would any of us truly have free will?
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:24:47 PMQuoteI rather get to the bottom of things than to comfort myself with a warm and fuzzy.
Which I find particularly amusing given your affinity for asses. :laugh:
That is an indicator that I can be trusted.
;)
Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Sep 04, 2013, 08:29:04 PMI don't believe in God, I absolutely have free will but theoretically, if God was real and had all the powers some Christians believe he has, would any of us truly have free will?
True. It's not exactly free will if God tells you to love him or he'll condemn you to Hell for all eternity; if he gets mad at you for doing something he already knew you were going to do; or if he created you a certain way and faults you for it.
Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Sep 04, 2013, 08:29:04 PM
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:24:47 PM
Bjorn, Your saying "why did God make me an atheist?", "why did he make me not believe?" shows me you don't think free will exists. Do you?
I do believe in free will. I meant that from a Christians point of view, assuming this God was all knowing and omnipotent, nothing could happen without him knowing it, thereore if he'd created me surely he would have done so with full knowledge of the person I'd become.
Which makes me wonder that if He does know everything that will ever happen, what's the point of Him doing anything? Is it in the Bible (this is for you maledoro) that God can foresee
exactly what will happen in the future? Because surely then any action He takes He can already foresee having made, which makes me think that God Himself would be slave to his own power. So I don't really think He knows exactly who you'd become, but instead has a 'plan' for you, and given free will you may or may not remain on said path. If he did know exactly how your life turned out, then what would be the point of creating you and allowing you to live your life?
Quote
I don't believe in God, I absolutely have free will but theoretically, if God was real and had all the powers some Christians believe he has, would any of us truly have free will?
If we were all mindless slaves then creation and belief would be meaningless to God.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:52:22 PMWhich makes me wonder that if He does know everything that will ever happen, what's the point of Him doing anything? Is it in the Bible (this is for you maledoro) that God can foresee exactly what will happen in the future?
I'll let you see for yourself: Clicky (http://www.raptureready.com/featured/funk/ooo.html)
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:52:22 PMBecause surely then any action He takes He can already foresee having made, which makes me think that God Himself would be slave to his own power. So I don't really think He knows exactly who you'd become, but instead has a 'plan' for you, and given free will you may or may not remain on said path. If he did know exactly how your life turned out, then what would be the point of creating you and allowing you to live your life?
More on that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omniscience#Omniscience_vs_free_will).
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:52:22 PMIf we were all mindless slaves then creation and belief would be meaningless to God.
Why? He'll still want others to worship him and stroke his ego. Who better than mindless slaves?
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 04, 2013, 09:10:07 PM
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:52:22 PMWhich makes me wonder that if He does know everything that will ever happen, what's the point of Him doing anything? Is it in the Bible (this is for you maledoro) that God can foresee exactly what will happen in the future?
I'll let you see for yourself: Clicky (http://www.raptureready.com/featured/funk/ooo.html)
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:52:22 PMBecause surely then any action He takes He can already foresee having made, which makes me think that God Himself would be slave to his own power. So I don't really think He knows exactly who you'd become, but instead has a 'plan' for you, and given free will you may or may not remain on said path. If he did know exactly how your life turned out, then what would be the point of creating you and allowing you to live your life?
More on that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omniscience#Omniscience_vs_free_will).
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Quote from: maledoro on Sep 04, 2013, 09:10:07 PM
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:52:22 PMIf we were all mindless slaves then creation and belief would be meaningless to God.
Why? He'll still want others to worship him and stroke his ego. Who better than mindless slaves?
Those who can think for themselves and therefore find new and creative ways to profess their admiration for His kindness and glory I would imagine.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 09:48:07 PMThose who can think for themselves and therefore find new and creative ways to profess their admiration for His kindness and glory I would imagine.
Moreso than those who would not dare to question his motives or existence?
How satisfying would a praise be from someone with no choice but to do so?
Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Sep 04, 2013, 08:15:15 PM
Something that bothers and confuses me; if you don't worship (I say worship rather than ''believe'' because I think it's perfectly possible to believe in a god without worshipping him/her simply because they are a powerful god/being) God, then no matter how good a person you are, you're going to Hell to be tormented and burned in fire for all eternity.
This is from a Catholic perspective, I know all religions differ.
It's always been my understanding that if you believe in God and accept God that you would be allowed into Heaven.
I wouldn't take my word for it though as I haven't regularly gone to church since my confirmation in 2006 nor have I ever completely read the bible.
Short version in Catholicism revolves around confession and repentance of sin.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:24:47 PM
Bjorn, Your saying "why did God make me an atheist?", "why did he make me not believe?" shows me you don't think free will exists. Do you?
Oh? Lets look at that. Assume that the God the Christian Bible, Yahweh, exists, and created this world for humans, and we will ultimately go to Heaven or Hell in the end.
If free will does not exist and he knows what we will choose, then we have no choice in where we go.
If free will does exist and does not know what we will choose, then he has made our options very unclear, and we are punished 'infinitely' for a 'finite' crime, the crime being skepticism.
The only way to get around this is to say "Oh, I just believe God is cool and loves us and junk", in which case, what your worshipping is a nebulous bunch of nothing, based on nothing, that you can't describe to anyone, let alone convince them that it is true.
I had two Jerhovahs witnesses here today who claimed that the Bible could help me in my life and that they had proof of God. After a half an hour of me asking them direct questions, and them refusing the answer and change the subject, everything was stripped away until the only thing they had left was "I believe it in my heart. I know it is true"
Well, that's not enough for me, and it shouldn't be enough for anyone, and if any entity anywhere saw this as a crime worthy of infinite punishment, then it's a f**king monster.
IF UR NOT ATHEIST FUK U!!!!!!!11!!1
That's a bit excessive :/ Many Atheists were once Theists man. It took reading the Bible more closely and looking at organized Religions impact on society to show me I wasn't a Theist after all (though I wasn't part of any Church, I was kind of 'searching' for something to believe)
FUKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 11:31:58 AM
That's a bit excessive :/ Many Atheists were once Theists man. It took reading the Bible more closely and looking at organized Religions impact on society to show me I wasn't a Theist after all (though I wasn't part of any Church, I was kind of 'searching' for something to believe)
The quickest way to becoming an atheist is to read the bible.
The worst thing about being an Atheist (I am one) is the thought of death.
I mean once you die, that's it. No memories, no nothing, no eternal life. Pretty crap basically.
It's a sorry state of affairs and when I think about it makes me wonder what to do with my life, and if it really matters anyway, I mean the story of our planet and the human race is destined to me a rather short lived one in the cosmic scheme of things.
Have you ever noticed how religions sell one thing above all? Some kind of afterlife, that's what it's all about my friends, fear of ceasing to be completely. Can't say I blame em.
I've always found the idea of an Afterlife... troubling. I mean, if this life is an eye blink before eternity, then what's the point of it? Everything we achieve here will be forgotten after a few trillion relative years in a timeless realm. What if I'd like to cease existing then? I don't care how nice an afterlife could be, nothing will keep the person I am happy and sane for eternity. The only way eternity would work is for me to change for it, in which case, I don't go to Heaven anyway.
I see no reason to believe that anything exists after my body and mind expires, and this makes my life much more valuable. The time I have means much more to me then if it were a step into the abyss.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 07:01:39 AM
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:24:47 PM
Bjorn, Your saying "why did God make me an atheist?", "why did he make me not believe?" shows me you don't think free will exists. Do you?
If free will does exist and does not know what we will choose, then he has made our options very unclear
I'd say they were rather clear cut and straightforward...
Quote from: Xenoscream on Sep 05, 2013, 12:53:24 PMThe worst thing about being an Atheist (I am one) is the thought of death.
I mean once you die, that's it. No memories, no nothing, no eternal life. Pretty crap basically.
You will not be aware of your death.
Quote from: Xenoscream on Sep 05, 2013, 12:53:24 PMIt's a sorry state of affairs and when I think about it makes me wonder what to do with my life, and if it really matters anyway, I mean the story of our planet and the human race is destined to me a rather short lived one in the cosmic scheme of things.
And that's why you want to live life to the fullest.
Quote from: Xenoscream on Sep 05, 2013, 12:53:24 PMHave you ever noticed how religions sell one thing above all? Some kind of afterlife, that's what it's all about my friends, fear of ceasing to be completely. Can't say I blame em.
Especially since they dwell on the inevitable. That's another reason I despise religion: too much obsession with death.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 01:07:51 PMI've always found the idea of an Afterlife... troubling. I mean, if this life is an eye blink before eternity, then what's the point of it? Everything we achieve here will be forgotten after a few trillion relative years in a timeless realm. What if I'd like to cease existing then? I don't care how nice an afterlife could be, nothing will keep the person I am happy and sane for eternity. The only way eternity would work is for me to change for it, in which case, I don't go to Heaven anyway.
I see no reason to believe that anything exists after my body and mind expires, and this makes my life much more valuable. The time I have means much more to me then if it were a step into the abyss.
As I told Xenoscream, life is what you make of it. If you have to assign some kind of meaning to it, then make it valuable. If you feel that you should leave a legacy, then make a work of art or contribute to a cause that you know will carry on after your presence.
Here is an article that may be of interest: Clicky (http://iheu.org/content/rational-view-death).
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 05, 2013, 02:52:40 PM
Here is an article that may be of interest: Clicky (http://iheu.org/content/rational-view-death).
Appreciated :) Will read.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 05, 2013, 02:29:59 PM
I'd say they were rather clear cut and straightforward...
Oh really now? I'd suggest you look back earlier in the topic to the video "Gods Perfect Plan'. There are a million different retirement packages being peddled by a million different sects, all of them unsubstantiated, most of them going against logic and reason, completely lacking in any kind of internal consistency, and almost every single one of them beginning in less educated times by less educated people.
To say that the path to Heaven is 'straight forward' is ridiculous and false. It would be like me trying to persuade you that your relatives should have been mummified, because Ra made it clear cut and straightforward that that was the path to the afterlife.
This talk of what it takes to get into Heaven reminds me of this video, where Mr. Deity, His Son, and St. Peter (I guess?) encounter a skeptic who is trying to get in...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gnQz32c5EA#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gnQz32c5EA#ws)
Quote from: Mr Diety regarding scienceI don't understand any of that stuff
Thank you for sharing xD
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 03:00:03 PM
Quote from: BANE on Sep 05, 2013, 02:29:59 PM
I'd say they were rather clear cut and straightforward...
Oh really now? I'd suggest you look back earlier in the topic to the video "Gods Perfect Plan'. There are a million different retirement packages being peddled by a million different sects, all of them unsubstantiated, most of them going against logic and reason, completely lacking in any kind of internal consistency, and almost every single one of them beginning in less educated times by less educated people.
To say that the path to Heaven is 'straight forward' is ridiculous and false. It would be like me trying to persuade you that your relatives should have been mummified, because Ra made it clear cut and straightforward that that was the path to the afterlife.
Sounds pretty straightforward to me.
If you're unable to actually respond, have some intellectual honesty and say so, don't just disregard whats been said and restate your previous claim.
Hey hey hey, don't take my word for it. In Mark 24:9, Jesus says as much. He says:
"Understanding the path to heaven is not fraught with complexity, as it is with the comprehension of the minds of women. It is hardly a difficult task, as the Lord hath given unto thee a guideline in the Commandments".
So boom there.
I was raised Catholic but then lost faith and considered myself atheist until I was 16 and read some writing from the Church Of Satan, mainly the Satanic Bible. I now follow the Church of Satan and I really like where Peter H. Gilmore has taken things.
Atheism was my first step in becoming comfortable with who I am and I have absolutely no regrets in leaving the Church.
I find with what I've learned, Satanism has helped me become more dependable and aware of my actions to myself and others. I don't think it's for everyone and to an outsider it can seem rather harsh in some of its lessons.
I'm just not comfortable with any Abrahamic religion nor do I believe in them at all anymore. I even look at Judaism and Islam today and just don't feel any connection.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 05, 2013, 04:07:24 PM
Hey hey hey, don't take my word for it. In Mark 24:9, Jesus says as much. He says:
"Understanding the path to heaven is not fraught with complexity, as it is with the comprehension of the minds of women. It is hardly a difficult task, as the Lord hath given unto thee a guideline in the Commandments".
So boom there.
You're talking to an Atheist dude. Bible verses won't help you make your points, especially when trying to describe what is 'obvious'.
For starters, you need to convince me Jesus is real before you can present anything he's said. Even if you could prove to me that Jesus is a historical figure and the accounts of his crucifixion were accurate, it still doesn't demonstrate that he was the son of Yahweh and that Heaven exists.
Boom deflected.
Quote from: saintssinphony on Sep 05, 2013, 04:15:15 PM
I was raised Catholic but then lost faith and considered myself atheist until I was 16 and read some writing from the Church Of Satan, mainly the Satanic Bible. I now follow the Church of Satan and I really like where Peter H. Gilmore has taken things.
Atheism was my first step in becoming comfortable with who I am and I have absolutely no regrets in leaving the Church.
I find with what I've learned, Satanism has helped me become more dependable and aware of my actions to myself and others. I don't think it's for everyone and to an outsider it can seem rather harsh in some of its lessons.
I'm just not comfortable with any Abrahamic religion nor do I believe in them at all anymore. I even look at Judaism and Islam today and just don't feel any connection.
I've had very little info on the Church of Satanism, but I understand it's somewhat like Paganism? I apologize if that's inaccurate Dx Considering 'Satanist' is a word like 'witch' and 'heretic', I'm not surprised that it 'seems harsh'. I have no opinion on it because I don't know enough to form one, but if you turned to it as an alternative to Abrahamic faiths, I'd assume it's a little more sensible?
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 04:19:39 PM
Quote from: BANE on Sep 05, 2013, 04:07:24 PM
Hey hey hey, don't take my word for it. In Mark 24:9, Jesus says as much. He says:
"Understanding the path to heaven is not fraught with complexity, as it is with the comprehension of the minds of women. It is hardly a difficult task, as the Lord hath given unto thee a guideline in the Commandments".
So boom there.
You're talking to an Atheist dude. Bible verses won't help you make your points, especially when trying to describe what is 'obvious'.
For starters, you need to convince me Jesus is real before you can present anything he's said. Even if you could prove to me that Jesus is a historical figure and the accounts of his crucifixion were accurate, it still doesn't demonstrate that he was the son of Yahweh and that Heaven exists.
Boom deflected.
I don't know what church you go to on Sundays, but I think your pastor needs to reread his trusty Bible if he has you delusional like this.
Yeah, Obvious Trolling is Bad Trolling, thanks for playing mate.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lvhm5zinKa1ql85u5.gif&hash=3e548b4bcef34bf0da5ac86b42d90ad0a757d9df)
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 04:25:12 PM
Yeah, Obvious Trolling is Bad Trolling, thanks for playing mate.
How can you honestly disregard our Lord with the full knowledge that he made you in His own image? It's BEAUTIFUL, and I cry and pray for you each night.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 04:19:39 PM
Quote from: BANE on Sep 05, 2013, 04:07:24 PM
Hey hey hey, don't take my word for it. In Mark 24:9, Jesus says as much. He says:
"Understanding the path to heaven is not fraught with complexity, as it is with the comprehension of the minds of women. It is hardly a difficult task, as the Lord hath given unto thee a guideline in the Commandments".
So boom there.
You're talking to an Atheist dude. Bible verses won't help you make your points, especially when trying to describe what is 'obvious'.
For starters, you need to convince me Jesus is real before you can present anything he's said. Even if you could prove to me that Jesus is a historical figure and the accounts of his crucifixion were accurate, it still doesn't demonstrate that he was the son of Yahweh and that Heaven exists.
Boom deflected.
Quote from: saintssinphony on Sep 05, 2013, 04:15:15 PM
I was raised Catholic but then lost faith and considered myself atheist until I was 16 and read some writing from the Church Of Satan, mainly the Satanic Bible. I now follow the Church of Satan and I really like where Peter H. Gilmore has taken things.
Atheism was my first step in becoming comfortable with who I am and I have absolutely no regrets in leaving the Church.
I find with what I've learned, Satanism has helped me become more dependable and aware of my actions to myself and others. I don't think it's for everyone and to an outsider it can seem rather harsh in some of its lessons.
I'm just not comfortable with any Abrahamic religion nor do I believe in them at all anymore. I even look at Judaism and Islam today and just don't feel any connection.
I've had very little info on the Church of Satanism, but I understand it's somewhat like Paganism? I apologize if that's inaccurate Dx Considering 'Satanist' is a word like 'witch' and 'heretic', I'm not surprised that it 'seems harsh'. I have no opinion on it because I don't know enough to form one, but if you turned to it as an alternative to Abrahamic faiths, I'd assume it's a little more sensible?
Anton LaVey chose to use Satan and Satanism because the belief is indulgence is ok which is the opposite of Christianity in that Christians are about self sacrifice and going without. Fasting for Easter and giving money to the church and not committing sin. The Church of Satan says to indulge, don't go without, don't hold back, don't turn the other cheek. Those are just a few small examples.
It is really more than that, that's just a quick answer, there's many writings available on the internet that can give you much more in depth view of why the word Satan was used. Satanist actually don't believe in the Christian devil at all, Satan in Christianity is believed to be a mere construct of mortal man to scare people in believing and to blame for the wrongs of man. I've found it interesting to read about the evolution of the man made Satan/Devil and how it has been used over and over again in religion but when you look at origins of some religion and look at early texts like the Torah you see Satan isn't a sentient being, it's more of a using the word devil for describing something else.
The Lord offered you his hand to walk alongside Him for eternity, to know pure joy and harmony, and yet you prefer to clasp the clawed hand of Satan and gallop beside him towards everlasting torture.
I'll pray for you.
Ah, am I safe to assume that it doesn't teach purely to indulge, but to learn your limits through indulgence?
I must admit I'm Satanist when it comes to chocolate.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 04:53:41 PM
Ah, am I safe to assume that it doesn't teach purely to indulge, but to learn your limits through indulgence?
Well, again I'm doing this is small snippets here, (also this is my interpretation but I've talked with many others who share this view) indulgence is fine, go ahead and enjoy yourself but if you over do anything it is bad and that is frowned upon. Also just because we believe in indulgence doesn't mean you go and do all the drugs you want or go break the law or whatever. You should respect yourself and other people's property. You are "worshipping" yourself/being human so you should indulge but to better yourself not hurt yourself. Also as you asked through letting yourself indulge in things you can grow as a human being,
for example, if you want to want to find a partner for life you should probably have sex and learn what you like so you can find someone to be happy with. Christianity teaches celibacy until marriage and in my opinion you won't know someone until you have a sexual relationship and I'm sure not going to marry someone until I know what they are like in bed. I also feel I'll probably need to experience sex with more than one woman to know what I like and how to hopefully give her what she wants. I know that's not for everyone but that is where the indulging thing helps a person find out who they are.
Hmmm, it sounds like Humanism with Spiritualist elements. I like it.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 05:17:41 PM
Hmmm, it sounds like Humanism with Spiritualist elements. I like it.
Check out the Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey and The Satanic Scriptures by Peter H. Gilmore. There are other reading material but those are the main introductory reading. On my path I've found there's always a new understanding of Satanism every year I get older and I find it more and more refreshing also. When I was an Atheist I didn't believe in anything, and that included myself. I know not all Atheist are like that, in fact many Atheist are the most responsible and dedicated people with a lot of self esteem.
What's Satanism's stance on deities? Do you believe in any kind of God or Gods or higher beings?
No, I don't find any deities relevant and other Satanist may not but in circles that practice ritual magic a deity may be used in the ritual for a number of reasons. The difference in us and atheist I know are that some Satanist do dabble in magic and have belief in some supernatural elements and atheist do not. No atheist I know does anyhow. If you don't subscribe to magic or the supernatural it does not keep you from being a practicing Satanist though.
I think you misunderstand what Atheist is man. Someone can believe that bioelectricity leaves the body after death and grows into mushrooms that contain the memories of the person and eating them connects us to the universe and still be an Atheist. Atheism says nothing of spiritualism, it simply means "I reject your claim of God"
Do you believe in a Deity? If no, you are an Atheist. If you are open to the possibility but unconvinced, you are an Agnostic Atheist.
Well things in here have certainly gotten interesting...I can feel a bit of condescension in some posts but its interesting none the less
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 05, 2013, 05:48:12 PM
Well things in here have certainly gotten interesting...I can feel a bit of condescension in some posts but its interesting none the less
It was inevitable. No matter how hard people try there will always be that type of attitude when it comes to these kinds of subjects. :P
Totally against this.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinions about who they worship or not.
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 05, 2013, 06:22:13 PM
Totally against this.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinions about who they worship or not.
Against what?
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 07:49:39 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 05, 2013, 06:22:13 PM
Totally against this.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinions about who they worship or not.
Against what?
I'm guessing he's against condescending opinions for what somebody might believe in.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 05:46:50 PM
I think you misunderstand what Atheist is man. Someone can believe that bioelectricity leaves the body after death and grows into mushrooms that contain the memories of the person and eating them connects us to the universe and still be an Atheist. Atheism says nothing of spiritualism, it simply means "I reject your claim of God"
Do you believe in a Deity? If no, you are an Atheist. If you are open to the possibility but unconvinced, you are an Agnostic Atheist.
I have not tried to define atheism, I'll leave that to someone else, I'm just giving a picture made of broad strokes, of what those who I have known and talked to have shown me.
I believe in no deities or ancient fairy tales. From what I've seen and experienced they are constructs of man nothing more.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 05, 2013, 08:16:41 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 07:49:39 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 05, 2013, 06:22:13 PM
Totally against this.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinions about who they worship or not.
Against what?
I'm guessing he's against condescending opinions for what somebody might believe in.
Yes, and I'm asking him to please share what he found condescending.
Quote from: saintssinphony on Sep 05, 2013, 08:26:39 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 05:46:50 PM
I think you misunderstand what Atheist is man. Someone can believe that bioelectricity leaves the body after death and grows into mushrooms that contain the memories of the person and eating them connects us to the universe and still be an Atheist. Atheism says nothing of spiritualism, it simply means "I reject your claim of God"
Do you believe in a Deity? If no, you are an Atheist. If you are open to the possibility but unconvinced, you are an Agnostic Atheist.
I have not tried to define atheism, I'll leave that to someone else, I'm just giving a picture made of broad strokes, of what those who I have known and talked to have shown me.
I believe in no deities or ancient fairy tales. From what I've seen and experienced they are constructs of man nothing more.
I'll just leave this here then. Form your own conclusion.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist)
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 08:34:54 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 05, 2013, 08:16:41 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 07:49:39 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 05, 2013, 06:22:13 PM
Totally against this.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinions about who they worship or not.
Against what?
I'm guessing he's against condescending opinions for what somebody might believe in.
Yes, and I'm asking him to please share what he found condescending.
Quote from: saintssinphony on Sep 05, 2013, 08:26:39 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 05:46:50 PM
I think you misunderstand what Atheist is man. Someone can believe that bioelectricity leaves the body after death and grows into mushrooms that contain the memories of the person and eating them connects us to the universe and still be an Atheist. Atheism says nothing of spiritualism, it simply means "I reject your claim of God"
Do you believe in a Deity? If no, you are an Atheist. If you are open to the possibility but unconvinced, you are an Agnostic Atheist.
I have not tried to define atheism, I'll leave that to someone else, I'm just giving a picture made of broad strokes, of what those who I have known and talked to have shown me.
I believe in no deities or ancient fairy tales. From what I've seen and experienced they are constructs of man nothing more.
I'll just leave this here then. Form your own conclusion.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist)
I agree with you with that definition. Are you saying you and I are in agreement? I don't quite see what you are getting at? Sorry, I'm not trying to joke.
It could be that things don't translate very well through text, but I know that I've felt like your replies Sabby have had a condescending tone.
I know on this kind of subject I'd try to not come off as condescending as much as possible. For example I think it was saintssinphony that says he follows the satanic bible. I personally don't agree with that but if m and him where to get into a conversation comparing our personal beliefs I'd give him the courtesy of not coming off as condescending.
Again, this could just be things getting lost in the translation from hand to keyboard though.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 05, 2013, 08:40:14 PM
It could be that things don't translate very well through text, but I know that I've felt like your replies Sabby have had a condescending tone.
I know on this kind of subject I'd try to not come off as condescending as much as possible. For example I think it was saintssinphony that says he follows the satanic bible. I personally don't agree with that but if m and him where to get into a conversation comparing our personal beliefs I'd give him the courtesy of not coming off as condescending.
Again, this could just be things getting lost in the translation from hand to keyboard though.
If you feel I've been condescending to a 'person', then please, tell me. I would like to know, so I can address it. But I make no such niceness to a persons arguments.
An argument is presented with facts and lives and dies on it's own internal consistency. If you make an argument with conviction alone, your not making an argument at all and I will simply move past it. This may seem like I'm speaking down to the person, but I'm not, I'm walking over something with no relevance to the discussion.
Quote from: saintssinphony on Sep 05, 2013, 08:39:11 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 08:34:54 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 05, 2013, 08:16:41 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 07:49:39 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 05, 2013, 06:22:13 PM
Totally against this.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinions about who they worship or not.
Against what?
I'm guessing he's against condescending opinions for what somebody might believe in.
Yes, and I'm asking him to please share what he found condescending.
Quote from: saintssinphony on Sep 05, 2013, 08:26:39 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 05:46:50 PM
I think you misunderstand what Atheist is man. Someone can believe that bioelectricity leaves the body after death and grows into mushrooms that contain the memories of the person and eating them connects us to the universe and still be an Atheist. Atheism says nothing of spiritualism, it simply means "I reject your claim of God"
Do you believe in a Deity? If no, you are an Atheist. If you are open to the possibility but unconvinced, you are an Agnostic Atheist.
I have not tried to define atheism, I'll leave that to someone else, I'm just giving a picture made of broad strokes, of what those who I have known and talked to have shown me.
I believe in no deities or ancient fairy tales. From what I've seen and experienced they are constructs of man nothing more.
I'll just leave this here then. Form your own conclusion.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist)
I agree with you with that definition. Are you saying you and I are in agreement? I don't quite see what you are getting at? Sorry, I'm not trying to joke.
It's a pet peeve of mine when someone says "You know your a Christian" or "It's okay, I know you believe XYZ anyway" so I'm simply refraining from telling you you're an Atheist ^^' I will only say we share views here, but you are a far more spiritual person then I.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 07:49:39 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 05, 2013, 06:22:13 PM
Totally against this.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinions about who they worship or not.
Against what?
People who are just Atheists ?
Most of them dont like religious poeple and im not talking about going to church im talking about people who believe in God and Jesus.
Its a free world at the end of the day and people and can believe in what they want.
All joking and trolling aside, I wonder if there's a word for someone who just doesn't care one way or the other? Because that'd be me.
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 05, 2013, 09:31:43 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 07:49:39 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 05, 2013, 06:22:13 PM
Totally against this.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinions about who they worship or not.
Against what?
People who are just Atheists ?
Most of them dont like religious poeple and im not talking about going to church im talking about people who believe in God and Jesus.
Its a free world at the end of the day and people and can believe in what they want.
Yes, disregard everything that's been said so far and just fly off into an emotional outburst that clearly displays you don't understand the topic.
OMG ATHISTS R MEAN ITS A FREE WERLD JUST LET US BELEVE
How about actually educating yourself as to what Atheism is? And better yet, look up the definition of freedom of religion, because I don't think it means you think it does.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 05, 2013, 09:37:19 PM
All joking and trolling aside, I wonder if there's a word for someone who just doesn't care one way or the other? Because that'd be me.
Well played Bane xD You honestly had me going for most of that, well done. I think the term you're looking for is Apatheist, but I'm not certain.
There we go.
As you can see, I'm pretty good at getting others to do my research for me. :laugh:
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 05, 2013, 09:31:43 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 07:49:39 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 05, 2013, 06:22:13 PM
Totally against this.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinions about who they worship or not.
Against what?
People who are just Atheists ?
Most of them dont like religious poeple and im not talking about going to church im talking about people who believe in God and Jesus.
Its a free world at the end of the day and people and can believe in what they want.
Its a free world so you cant force atheists to like them
Your free to believe what you want, and people are free to criticize what you believe. Christians are not being oppressed. There is no 'War on Religion', just a slow but overdue dissolving of the taboo of questioning religion.
The overdue dissolving of the taboo of questioning religion that began about 350 years ago, you mean?
It's a slow process that's thankfully speeding up thanks to free exchange of information.
Poor oppressed atheists.
I think you forgot the other half of your post that explains the first half.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fjurassicpark%2Fimages%2F5%2F5f%2FYouDidn%2527tSayTheMagicWord.gif&hash=2ec1592ac5c37f019f360e664ef5b8e2473293cd)
Quote from: BANE on Sep 05, 2013, 04:29:41 PMHow can you honestly disregard our Lord with the full knowledge that he made you in His own image? It's BEAUTIFUL, and I cry and pray for you each night.
Knowing that every night, next to your bed, you are on your knees talking to yourself with
Sabby on your mind is pretty f**king creepy.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 05:17:41 PM
Hmmm, it sounds like Humanism with Spiritualist elements. I like it.
It sounds like a watered down version of Thelema:
QuoteThe Nine Satanic Statements
1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!
-Anton Szandor LaVey
Quote
Liber LXXVII
"the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world." —AL. II. 21
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." —AL. I. 40
"thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that, and no other shall say nay." —AL. I. 42–3
"Every man and every woman is a star." —AL. I. 3
There is no god but man.
1. Man has the right to live by his own law— to live in the way that he wills to do:
to work as he will:
to play as he will:
to rest as he will:
to die when and how he will.
2. Man has the right to eat what he will: to drink what he will:
to dwell where he will:
to move as he will on the face of the earth.
3. Man has the right to think what he will: to speak what he will:
to write what he will:
to draw, paint, carve, etch, mould, build as he will:
to dress as he will.
4. Man has the right to love as he will:— "take your fill and will of love as ye will,
when, where, and with whom ye will." —AL. I. 51 5. Man has the right to kill those who would thwart these rights.
"the slaves shall serve." —AL. II. 58
"Love is the law, love under will." —AL. I. 57
- Aleister Crowley
Let's say belief systems were a TV: "To believe in Protestantism, turn to Channel 1. For Catholicism, Channel 2.", and so on. Atheism is simply not switching the TV on.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 06, 2013, 12:50:17 AM
Let's say belief systems were a TV: "To believe in Protestantism, turn to Channel 1. For Catholicism, Channel 2.", and so on. Atheism is simply not switching the TV on.
This. That, and asking why that TV is so gersh dern irmperntent when all it does is either nothing or blow out other peoples fuses.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 06, 2013, 12:50:17 AM
Quote from: BANE on Sep 05, 2013, 04:29:41 PMHow can you honestly disregard our Lord with the full knowledge that he made you in His own image? It's BEAUTIFUL, and I cry and pray for you each night.
Knowing that every night, next to your bed, you are on your knees talking to yourself with Sabby on your mind is pretty f**king creepy.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 05, 2013, 05:17:41 PM
Hmmm, it sounds like Humanism with Spiritualist elements. I like it.
It sounds like a watered down version of Thelema:
QuoteThe Nine Satanic Statements
1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!
-Anton Szandor LaVey
Quote
Liber LXXVII
"the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world." —AL. II. 21
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." —AL. I. 40
"thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that, and no other shall say nay." —AL. I. 42–3
"Every man and every woman is a star." —AL. I. 3
There is no god but man.
1. Man has the right to live by his own law— to live in the way that he wills to do:
to work as he will:
to play as he will:
to rest as he will:
to die when and how he will.
2. Man has the right to eat what he will: to drink what he will:
to dwell where he will:
to move as he will on the face of the earth.
3. Man has the right to think what he will: to speak what he will:
to write what he will:
to draw, paint, carve, etch, mould, build as he will:
to dress as he will.
4. Man has the right to love as he will:— "take your fill and will of love as ye will,
when, where, and with whom ye will." —AL. I. 51 5. Man has the right to kill those who would thwart these rights.
"the slaves shall serve." —AL. II. 58
"Love is the law, love under will." —AL. I. 57
- Aleister Crowley
93!!!!
The Thelemic law and other similar practices are carried on in some ways with many people I know in the Church. I believe Satanism though is a retooling of those ideas and streamlined for the 21st century. The "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" hasn't really changed much, also Ritual Magick is still heavily used today. I'm sure you know that. In fact I'd say without the teaching and rituals from The Golden Dawn there wouldn't be Thelema or Satanism today. 93 93/93
Quote from: saintssinphony on Sep 06, 2013, 02:56:39 AMThe Thelemic law and other similar practices are carried on in some ways with many people I know in the Church. I believe Satanism though is a retooling of those ideas and streamlined for the 21st century. The "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" hasn't really changed much, also Ritual Magick is still heavily used today. I'm sure you know that. In fact I'd say without the teaching and rituals from The Golden Dawn there wouldn't be Thelema or Satanism today. 93 93/93
I wouldn't call the CoS "21st Century". A lot of people left them and formed the Temple of Set because of LaVey's ideas, especially on whom to recruit. Plus, based on the ritual materials I have examined, the ToS keeps a more traditional connection to the LHP than the CoS.
You are right about how the Luciferian current owes a lot to Thelema. So does Wicca. Wiccans hate it when I point out that most of what they think is "ancient wisdom" came from Gerald Gardner who cribbed a lot of his "teachings" from Freemasonry and Aleister Crowley, when Gardner was a member of the Ordo Templi Orientis.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 06, 2013, 12:11:20 PM
Quote from: saintssinphony on Sep 06, 2013, 02:56:39 AMThe Thelemic law and other similar practices are carried on in some ways with many people I know in the Church. I believe Satanism though is a retooling of those ideas and streamlined for the 21st century. The "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" hasn't really changed much, also Ritual Magick is still heavily used today. I'm sure you know that. In fact I'd say without the teaching and rituals from The Golden Dawn there wouldn't be Thelema or Satanism today. 93 93/93
I wouldn't call the CoS "21st Century". A lot of people left them and formed the Temple of Set because of LaVey's ideas, especially on whom to recruit. Plus, based on the ritual materials I have examined, the ToS keeps a more traditional connection to the LHP than the CoS.
You are right about how the Luciferian current owes a lot to Thelema. So does Wicca. Wiccans hate it when I point out that most of what they think is "ancient wisdom" came from Gerald Gardner who cribbed a lot of his "teachings" from Freemasonry and Aleister Crowley, when Gardner was a member of the Ordo Templi Orientis.
Yes many wiccans are very confused when you show them some old knowledge. I seemed to attract wiccans and when I show them some older stuff I'm met with the same venom. Only those with serious dispositions into learning will listen to reason. Gardner, to me, was just in it for the young naked girls and some money from books. I'm sure he started to believe his stuff as truth but that's another conversation.
I find it is funny when you get a wiccan in a room who hasn't heard of Gardner and you get a group of Gardner followers together. It can be exciting. You can just see the ideas on the lone non-Gardner follower get knocked out of contention and crumble before his eyes !!! Or get some Gardner followers in the same room as Dianic wiccans and you might get a bloodbath.
I meant CoS being made for the 21st century as in it isn't a theistic belief system.
Theistic Satanist are like Diane Vera and as you mentioned the ToS and to me they are crazy people. In this age of godlessness it is important to have some personal responsibility which the CoS tries to teach.
Quote from: saintssinphony on Sep 06, 2013, 02:25:57 PMGardner, to me, was just in it for the young naked girls and some money from books. I'm sure he started to believe his stuff as truth but that's another conversation.
That's pretty much how it is with ceremonial magickians: sex and drugs.
You know the old song... (http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/humor/staff.html)
People get to delusional about "Satan" and "Satanism" tbh.
Its just one big mind trick and the people who worship "it" and believe in "it" have been brain washed by messed up preists.
Theories going around is saying Satan once excisted but it was an Alien who was once on this earth and did nasty things to people and tried take over the world (Coincidence ? sounds like government stuff to me), and they called that being "Satan" because they couldnt think of a actual name.
People think Satan could have been mistaken for the likes off..
Annunaki
Reptilians
and other alien race.
Guess we will never know the truth.
But the whole thing about worshiping Satan right now its a load of rubbish.
Haha yeah, rubbish. No one worships Satan.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2F232c423f75b2b2b7397762328ff4690e%2Ftumblr_mskxypabRL1spbtxxo1_500.gif&hash=774e67f4cdf11363877cf6d0e3752809abc3de56)
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:36:33 PM
Haha yeah, rubbish. No one worships Satan.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/232c423f75b2b2b7397762328ff4690e/tumblr_mskxypabRL1spbtxxo1_500.gif
The ones who "think" they do have been fooled and brain washed.
They ask him for "this and that" but does he give them anything ? no.
Load of crap.
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 06, 2013, 04:38:15 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:36:33 PM
Haha yeah, rubbish. No one worships Satan.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/232c423f75b2b2b7397762328ff4690e/tumblr_mskxypabRL1spbtxxo1_500.gif
The ones who "think" they do have been fooled and brain washed.
They ask him for "this and that" but does he give them anything ? no.
Load of crap.
I've never asked Satan for anything!
Definitely never sacrificed a virgin in his name either!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2F0b6c05177b3fc74e6f6683d2a3d17248%2Ftumblr_inline_mnugqlLdBp1qz4rgp.gif&hash=d02ec8d4d12cd83b332ba37a9e1f1d56b6b43abe)
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:41:16 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 06, 2013, 04:38:15 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:36:33 PM
Haha yeah, rubbish. No one worships Satan.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/232c423f75b2b2b7397762328ff4690e/tumblr_mskxypabRL1spbtxxo1_500.gif
The ones who "think" they do have been fooled and brain washed.
They ask him for "this and that" but does he give them anything ? no.
Load of crap.
I've never asked Satan for anything!
Definitely never sacrificed a virgin in his name either!
http://media.tumblr.com/0b6c05177b3fc74e6f6683d2a3d17248/tumblr_inline_mnugqlLdBp1qz4rgp.gif
If you are for real?
Tell me , how did you get into Satanism ?
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 06, 2013, 04:43:10 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:41:16 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 06, 2013, 04:38:15 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:36:33 PM
Haha yeah, rubbish. No one worships Satan.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/232c423f75b2b2b7397762328ff4690e/tumblr_mskxypabRL1spbtxxo1_500.gif
The ones who "think" they do have been fooled and brain washed.
They ask him for "this and that" but does he give them anything ? no.
Load of crap.
I've never asked Satan for anything!
Definitely never sacrificed a virgin in his name either!
http://media.tumblr.com/0b6c05177b3fc74e6f6683d2a3d17248/tumblr_inline_mnugqlLdBp1qz4rgp.gif
If you are for real?
Tell me , how did you get into Satanism ?
Well I started dating a Satan. A female one.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:47:47 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 06, 2013, 04:43:10 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:41:16 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 06, 2013, 04:38:15 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:36:33 PM
Haha yeah, rubbish. No one worships Satan.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/232c423f75b2b2b7397762328ff4690e/tumblr_mskxypabRL1spbtxxo1_500.gif
The ones who "think" they do have been fooled and brain washed.
They ask him for "this and that" but does he give them anything ? no.
Load of crap.
I've never asked Satan for anything!
Definitely never sacrificed a virgin in his name either!
http://media.tumblr.com/0b6c05177b3fc74e6f6683d2a3d17248/tumblr_inline_mnugqlLdBp1qz4rgp.gif
If you are for real?
Tell me , how did you get into Satanism ?
Well I started dating a Satan. A female one.
You been brain washed by her then.
Congrats.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdevilsfoe.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F03%2Fblackandwhite-clapping-joker-dark-knight-animation.gif&hash=fce6aae70efa1074952ade3a39cb1010e2573ab7)
Not really doe ;D
Quote from: ディロフォサウルス on Sep 06, 2013, 04:38:15 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:36:33 PM
Haha yeah, rubbish. No one worships Satan.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/232c423f75b2b2b7397762328ff4690e/tumblr_mskxypabRL1spbtxxo1_500.gif
The ones who "think" they do have been fooled and brain washed.
They ask him for "this and that" but does he give them anything ? no.
Load of crap.
You're pretty much describing prayer in general.
Yeah really, replace "Satan" with "God" in the last few posts and it makes no difference.
Quote from: ディロフォサウルス on Sep 06, 2013, 04:43:10 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:41:16 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 06, 2013, 04:38:15 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:36:33 PM
Haha yeah, rubbish. No one worships Satan.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/232c423f75b2b2b7397762328ff4690e/tumblr_mskxypabRL1spbtxxo1_500.gif
The ones who "think" they do have been fooled and brain washed.
They ask him for "this and that" but does he give them anything ? no.
Load of crap.
I've never asked Satan for anything!
Definitely never sacrificed a virgin in his name either!
http://media.tumblr.com/0b6c05177b3fc74e6f6683d2a3d17248/tumblr_inline_mnugqlLdBp1qz4rgp.gif
If you are for real?
Tell me , how did you get into Satanism ?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi792.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy204%2Fstuckboy94%2Fnot_sure_if_serious.jpg&hash=7cc344f6ac2704082385a8ebbdeb17b7ab28e437)
Atheist.
I see divinity everywhere in nature. I see nothing divine in the established monotheistic religions, only the ambition to rule over humankind by the use of primitive fear mongering. How dreadful to be asked to worship and love a God out of fear for what happens to you in the afterlife if you choose not to.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 03:44:19 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Sep 01, 2013, 03:28:52 PM
"an impersonal, abstract, and frankly mechanistic God is nonetheless God" - so the Big Bang could be called God, even though it was simply a one-off, impersonal and non-anthropomorphic event with no consciousness, desires or grand plan of its own.
To determine that, we'd have to settle on a definition for the word God, and if we even move onward from there and say The Big Bang is a God, it would still be a moot conclusion, as we'd have to drastically change, maybe even completely abandon what we consider a God to be in order to reach that.
God in this sense is defined as
the First Cause.
QuoteSomething that bothers and confuses me; if you don't worship (I say worship rather than ''believe'' because I think it's perfectly possible to believe in a god without worshipping him/her simply because they are a powerful god/being) God, then no matter how good a person you are, you're going to Hell to be tormented and burned in fire for all eternity.
The concept of burning in Hell is something created by the Catholic Church. I was recently encouraged to re-read the bible and after doing so I wouldn't even consider them Christian if I'm honest.
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Sep 09, 2013, 11:00:02 PMThe concept of burning in Hell is something created by the Catholic Church.
It goes back even further, to at least ancient Egypt.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv338%2Fmaledoro%2F1187097_206616056174343_2044141484_n_zpsa8ca07ec.jpg&hash=b88188872cbf6dbaa7d2af7fbe3ea73af9a264c4)
Quote from: Eva on Sep 08, 2013, 10:24:11 PM
Atheist.
I see divinity everywhere in nature. I see nothing divine in the established monotheistic religions, only the ambition to rule over humankind by the use of primitive fear mongering. How dreadful to be asked to worship and love a God out of fear for what happens to you in the afterlife if you choose not to.
This.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:41:16 PM
Quote from: Commander Keras on Sep 06, 2013, 04:38:15 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Sep 06, 2013, 04:36:33 PM
Haha yeah, rubbish. No one worships Satan.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/232c423f75b2b2b7397762328ff4690e/tumblr_mskxypabRL1spbtxxo1_500.gif
The ones who "think" they do have been fooled and brain washed.
They ask him for "this and that" but does he give them anything ? no.
Load of crap.
I've never asked Satan for anything!
Definitely never sacrificed a virgin in his name either!
http://media.tumblr.com/0b6c05177b3fc74e6f6683d2a3d17248/tumblr_inline_mnugqlLdBp1qz4rgp.gif
Satanism has nothing to do with sacrificing virgins.
I have a question for the Atheists here. How do you feel about phrases like "Thank God" and "Oh good Lord?"
Even as an Antitheist, I use the words God and Lord in much the same way people swear. The word just comes to you naturally. I know a lot of Atheists have issues with this, but personally I find it quite amusing. Whenever I hear something stupid or hurt myself and say "Oh for the love of God", I'm just swearing. God has been reduced to a curse word.
I tried to get out of this habit by using curses like oh my fictional Christ, but they don't have that natural feel of a good knee jerk f-bomb :(
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 14, 2013, 04:12:14 PM
I have a question for the Atheists here. How do you feel about phrases like "Thank God" and "Oh good Lord?"
Well, those are just knee-jerk responses to whatever suddenly happens for you, aren't they? Personally I don't mind or care or notice when people do it - I do it as well.
Besides, my 'antagonism' is squarely directed at the established dominant religious institutions and how they behave themselves towards others (and their own flock for that matter). As for what people chose to believe in on a personal level, I don't care. People can believe whatever they want or feel like is right for them.
Being an atheist does not necessarily suggest that you're not spiritually minded. It only suggests you don't believe in the singular supreme deity doctrines.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 14, 2013, 04:12:14 PM
I have a question for the Atheists here. How do you feel about phrases like "Thank God" and "Oh good Lord?"
They're just common phrases, they don't mean anything except to sound good when the situation calls for it.
As a kid I actually refused to say the lord's name in vain because I was taught it was a sin, but then I saw everyone around me use it constantly, even the religious. I always wondered why they would say it knowing it could condemn them to hell.
Turns out most people are either hypocrites or don't actually believe deep down.
One I've worked into my vocabulary is "Oh White Jesus" because I find it funny :3
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 14, 2013, 04:40:41 PM
One I've worked into my vocabulary is "Oh White Jesus" because I find it funny :3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRNCpD3xhsY# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRNCpD3xhsY#)
There is a lady who works in the bakery section of a local supermarket who wishes people a blessed day. I used to respond with things like, "May the mighty Zeus favor you and aid you in your endevours" or "You are a true believer. Blessings of the state, blessings of the masses. Thou art a subject of the divine. Created in the image of man, by the masses, for the masses."
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 12:57:34 AM
There is a lady who works in the bakery section of a local supermarket who wishes people a blessed day. I used to respond with things like, "May the mighty Zeus favor you and aid you in your endevours" or "You are a true believer. Blessings of the state, blessings of the masses. Thou art a subject of the divine. Created in the image of man, by the masses, for the masses."
How nice of you.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 15, 2013, 12:59:35 AM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 12:57:34 AM
There is a lady who works in the bakery section of a local supermarket who wishes people a blessed day. I used to respond with things like, "May the mighty Zeus favor you and aid you in your endevours" or "You are a true believer. Blessings of the state, blessings of the masses. Thou art a subject of the divine. Created in the image of man, by the masses, for the masses."
How nice of you.
Compared to some of the other things I've overheard her say, I was very nice.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 14, 2013, 04:12:14 PM
I have a question for the Atheists here. How do you feel about phrases like "Thank God" and "Oh good Lord?"
I think we've reached a point in society now where the words are meaningless, quite honestly.
i'm catholic and like most Catholics i don't go to church i screw around drink and act a general prick
but like dara o'brien once said there's no such as a catholic atheist your just a bad catholic
ps
i think catholic guilt must only exist in the states
Why not just abandon the religion altogether and simply love and respect your fellow man?
People leave religion in stages. It tends to go from "I'm Catholic just don't do the churchy stuff" to "I'm spiritual". Gotta hold onto that sense of connection with a higher plane, ya know?
If someone is truly spiritual, I wouldn't call it a higher plane per se but rather simply acknowledging there's more to life than meets the immediate eye.
Claiming to be spiritual is a bit of a cop out. Ask anyone who makes that claim what 'spiritual' means and you'll get a big bunch of nebulous nothing, if you get an answer at all. I
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 15, 2013, 06:00:36 AMIf someone is truly spiritual, I wouldn't call it a higher plane per se but rather simply acknowledging there's more to life than meets the immediate eye.
Such as?
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 06:03:05 AM
Claiming to be spiritual is a bit of a cop out. Ask anyone who makes that claim what 'spiritual' means and you'll get a big bunch of nebulous nothing, if you get an answer at all.
Yep. And thanks to said "nebulous nothing", the dispenser can constantly shift their morals to suit the situation and pretend not to be hypocritical.
Yeah, infuriates me to no end to try and talk to someone whose response to a simple question is to change the bloody subject.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 01:17:05 PM
Yeah, infuriates me to no end to try and talk to someone whose response to a simple question is to change the bloody subject.
Religion is a very
bloody subject.
;)
When it comes down to it, I do believe in the Christian God and I also follow a lot of the religion's principles. (Such as loving your fellow man and stuff like that.) But I don't doubt the very real possibility that God doesn't exist, and I don't hate people that aren't christian.
I do agree 100% that Christianity has become a contorted, horrible thing in some cases. Take for example that baptist church (I can't remember the name.) that goes around making anyone who isn't christian, straight or white feel awful about themselves with signs that say things like "God hates fags". I also firmly believe that organized religion in general is the cause of a great deal of death and misery.
Westboro Baptists. The thing, though, is that they're not really twisting Christianity (at least, I think that's their sect of choice, could be wrong) into something else, all their doing is focusing on parts of it aside from the generally nice stuff. Love your neighbor, be a good person, yeah, it's all there in the Bible, but those are things that are bred into social species, we didn't take them from a book.
I don't see anyone picketing farms for planting two seeds in the same hole, which is an abomination, or fighting to institute state regulations for the ownership and treatment of non Jewish slaves. That's all in the Bible. People love to quote the Love Thy Neighbor stuff, but they always neglect to mention the 'drag your son to the edge of town and hurl stones at his head until he dies for calling you a dick'. We reject that kind of bronze age savagery because we've gotten passed it, yet we make it a moral issue to keep it in writing because some parts of it are okay?
I know there are good Christians out there and that only the most deranged and brainwashed excuses for humanity would try and live by these rules, but simply ignoring these writings is not enough. Christians should be the ones upset at their Churches refusal to modernize.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 15, 2013, 06:00:36 AMIf someone is truly spiritual, I wouldn't call it a higher plane per se but rather simply acknowledging there's more to life than meets the immediate eye.
Such as?
I'm more likely to believe in something like ghosts because I believe science can't explain everything even though it's a handy tool to use. I also believe in extra-terrestrial life for the same reason.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 03:04:21 PM
Westboro Baptists. The thing, though, is that they're not really twisting Christianity (at least, I think that's their sect of choice, could be wrong) into something else, all their doing is focusing on parts of it aside from the generally nice stuff. Love your neighbor, be a good person, yeah, it's all there in the Bible, but those are things that are bred into social species, we didn't take them from a book.
I don't see anyone picketing farms for planting two seeds in the same hole, which is an abomination, or fighting to institute state regulations for the ownership and treatment of non Jewish slaves. That's all in the Bible. People love to quote the Love Thy Neighbor stuff, but they always neglect to mention the 'drag your son to the edge of town and hurl stones at his head until he dies for calling you a dick'. We reject that kind of bronze age savagery because we've gotten passed it, yet we make it a moral issue to keep it in writing because some parts of it are okay?
I know there are good Christians out there and that only the most deranged and brainwashed excuses for humanity would try and live by these rules, but simply ignoring these writings is not enough. Christians should be the ones upset at their Churches refusal to modernize.
Couldn't agree more.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 15, 2013, 03:19:12 PM
I'm more likely to believe in something like ghosts because I believe science can't explain everything even though it's a handy tool to use. I also believe in extra-terrestrial life for the same reason.
If science can't explain something, it simply means we can't comprehend it yet. No fault of science.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 15, 2013, 03:19:12 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 15, 2013, 06:00:36 AMIf someone is truly spiritual, I wouldn't call it a higher plane per se but rather simply acknowledging there's more to life than meets the immediate eye.
Such as?
I'm more likely to believe in something like ghosts because I believe science can't explain everything even though it's a handy tool to use. I also believe in extra-terrestrial life for the same reason.
If it exists, science can prove it. If ghosts and alien life are a thing, then we will find them through science. Treating them as mystical because their unproven concepts is just silliness.
Your on the internet. I'm pretty sure 500 years ago, 'people talking to each other and storing their thoughts invisibly in the air around them' sounded about as plausible as 'people leaving an imprint of psychic energy that persists after death depending on how happy they were when they died' sounds to me right now. There's plenty of reasons for the belief in ghosts, but no credible evidence to support they are anything other then a cultural phenomena.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 02:40:33 PMWhen it comes down to it, I do believe in the Christian God and I also follow a lot of the religion's principles.
Why not all of them?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 15, 2013, 03:19:12 PMI'm more likely to believe in something like ghosts because I believe science can't explain everything even though it's a handy tool to use.
Because something can't be explained you believe in it? Science doesn't pretend to explain everything, but it is more handy than a wild-assed guess. (Which, contrary to popular belief, are not the same things as theories.)
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 15, 2013, 03:19:12 PMI also believe in extra-terrestrial life for the same reason.
But science wants to believe in ET, ghosts and all those other things. It's just that the evidence for those things is so flimsy, that you can't point a finger at something intangible and say "It was that!".
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 03:48:56 PMYour on the internet. I'm pretty sure 500 years ago, 'people talking to each other and storing their thoughts invisibly in the air around them' sounded about as plausible as 'people leaving an imprint of psychic energy that persists after death depending on how happy they were when they died' sounds to me right now. There's plenty of reasons for the belief in ghosts, but no credible evidence to support they are anything other then a cultural phenomena.
Sabby, I love you like a brother, but allow me to pop this bubble. What if the Internet had never been created? Or radio transmissions? The Internet (and radio technology) would still be on level ground with telepathy. But the difference is that the Internet was invented. ESP is allegedly either natural or enhanced; two things that have been studied and rejected.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 03:48:56 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 15, 2013, 03:19:12 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 15, 2013, 06:00:36 AMIf someone is truly spiritual, I wouldn't call it a higher plane per se but rather simply acknowledging there's more to life than meets the immediate eye.
Such as?
I'm more likely to believe in something like ghosts because I believe science can't explain everything even though it's a handy tool to use. I also believe in extra-terrestrial life for the same reason.
If it exists, science can prove it. If ghosts and alien life are a thing, then we will find them through science. Treating them as mystical because their unproven concepts is just silliness.
Your on the internet. I'm pretty sure 500 years ago, 'people talking to each other and storing their thoughts invisibly in the air around them' sounded about as plausible as 'people leaving an imprint of psychic energy that persists after death depending on how happy they were when they died' sounds to me right now. There's plenty of reasons for the belief in ghosts, but no credible evidence to support they are anything other then a cultural phenomena.
Remember, and maledoro this is for you as well, saying "I believe" is another way of saying I don't know. But I've seen third-party evidence and heard accounts that would suggest phenomenon such as ghosts might exist. I'd rather not shut my mind off to it and say, "Well science can't prove it so it doesn't exist".
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 03:55:22 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 03:48:56 PMYour on the internet. I'm pretty sure 500 years ago, 'people talking to each other and storing their thoughts invisibly in the air around them' sounded about as plausible as 'people leaving an imprint of psychic energy that persists after death depending on how happy they were when they died' sounds to me right now. There's plenty of reasons for the belief in ghosts, but no credible evidence to support they are anything other then a cultural phenomena.
Sabby, I love you like a brother, but allow me to pop this bubble. What if the Internet had never been created? Or radio transmissions? The Internet (and radio technology) would still be on level ground with telepathy. But the difference is that the Internet was invented. ESP is allegedly either natural or enhanced; two things that have been studied and rejected.
Hmmm, not sure what exactly I was trying to get across with that one. Certainly not drawing comparisons between radio frequencies and ghosts >.< I guess I was trying to show that what was once a magical concept is now an understood and replicated phenomena thanks to science. We don't learn how a thing ticks and then continue to see it as supernatural.
If ghosts, aliens, telepathy and succubi were proven and fully understood by tomorrow, we would still have nothing supernatural in this world.
Supernatural is a fun way of saying "I don't know what I'm talking about"
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 03:55:22 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 02:40:33 PMWhen it comes down to it, I do believe in the Christian God and I also follow a lot of the religion's principles.
Why not all of them?
In the case of religion, many of the principles in different religions are very similar.
In the case of different gods...it is quite simple. I choose to believe in the God that I believe in. I don't expect everyone to understand, and that's fine.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 04:06:10 PMI guess I was trying to show that what was once a magical concept is now an understood and replicated phenomena thanks to science. We don't learn how a thing ticks and then continue to see it as supernatural.
Shortly before there was an Internet, there were other technologies present that would allow us to dream up the Internet. Keep in mind that most of the time science doesn't say, "Eureka!" ("I have found it!"), but mostly says, "Hmmm. That's interesting...". In other words, most of the time science doesn't pose a concept and then goes in search of it; instead, science makes most of its discoveries by exploring and stumbling upon something and finding out what makes it tick. After that, the inventing begins.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 04:06:10 PMSupernatural is a fun way of saying "I don't know what I'm talking about"
Unwittingly by the sayer.
;)
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 04:28:47 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 03:55:22 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 02:40:33 PMWhen it comes down to it, I do believe in the Christian God and I also follow a lot of the religion's principles.
Why not all of them?
In the case of religion, many of the principles in different religions are very similar.
What I am asking is with you being a follower of Christ, how do you decide which of Jesus' teachings to follow and which to abandon?
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 04:28:47 PMIn the case of different gods...it is quite simple. I choose to believe in the God that I believe in. I don't expect everyone to understand, and that's fine.
This begs a question, too: what is it about this God that has more credence than any of the other gods or goddesses?
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 04:39:43 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 04:28:47 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 03:55:22 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 02:40:33 PMWhen it comes down to it, I do believe in the Christian God and I also follow a lot of the religion's principles.
Why not all of them?
In the case of religion, many of the principles in different religions are very similar.
What I am asking is with you being a follower of Christ, how do you decide which of Jesus' teachings to follow and which to abandon?
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 04:28:47 PMIn the case of different gods...it is quite simple. I choose to believe in the God that I believe in. I don't expect everyone to understand, and that's fine.
This begs a question, too: what is it about this God that has more credence than any of the other gods or goddesses?
Obviously, the phrase "Spare the rod, spoil the child." comes to mind when I think of things that I don't agree with in the bible. I go by my gut when I make decisions in my life. I don't follow the bible with everything I do.
And I believe in God because myself and several members of my family have had several unexplainable experiences when it comes to God. Like I said, I'm not completely ignoring the possibility that he doesn't exist, but I suppose it just comes down to a question of personal faith.
Ah, faith. That old roadblock.
You say roadblock, I say opening.
No, answering "Why do you believe in X" with "Faith" is a roadblock. It ends the conversation, as there is no where to go. You're admitting to believing X because you believe in X.
If I believe in Fairies because I already believe in Fairies, you'd call me an idiot. Faith is not an opening, it's an excuse.
To some people.
Am I or am I not being a moron by having Faith in Fairies?
The answer to that is obvious. But I just stated above that it's not just personal faith. Members of my family and I have had personal experiences as well. Again, I wouldn't expect everyone to understand.
So, the reasons are enough for you, but they won't make sense to anyone else? Why would it convince you and not me?
Because you're obviously already so rooted down in your Atheism that you would probably immediately discount it. (Not that I have a problem with Atheists.) They're experiences that you would probably call coincidence, but that I know to be true.
So I wouldn't believe your experience because I'm skeptical?
That just shows me your reasons aren't very strong.
Well, read it for yourself.
Spoiler
When I was younger and going through puberty, I began having really disturbing and horrible thoughts. Really dark stuff. Well, I just sat on my bed and prayed to God and said that I was scared of what I'd become in the future if these thoughts continued. I asked him to show me something to put me at ease. Following the whole theme, I picked up my bible which had been gathering dust and haphazardly flipped through it. The first scripture (I'm not kidding, the very first scripture I laid my eyes on.) I read mentioned a man with my name and that his future would be happy if he remained faithful. Something about purifying his sons, I can't really remember exactly what it said as it's been about six years. I immediately broke down where I was and the most profound feeling of relief flowed through me. Never since have I had another evil thought like the thoughts I was having back then.
It's up for you to interpret, but again, I'm not expecting you to understand.
There's nothing interpretative about that... and certainly nothing indicative of a divine message.
You've already dismissed all inquiry as 'meanies being mean to me for no raisens', and that's just fine, you certainly have a right to clap your hands over your ears, but please don't insult my intelligence with "You just wouldn't understand it". Flimsy reasoning I can handle, a smoke screen of special pleading I can't.
You completely misread me. I wasn't insulting your intelligence at all, and I have already stated multiple times that I don't completely discount the possibility that God doesn't exist.
And you typing the southern drawl to indicate stupid southern American christians? Nice. Never heard of that before.
I meant that you wouldn't understand it because it's a personal experience of mine, and based off of that experience I have faith. Don't be so sensitive.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 07:08:42 PM
Don't be so sensitive.
Lots of that on the forum lately. Over sensitive members that are new to the forum.
Southern drawl? Your used to reading things that aren't there, I see, because I made no such joke. I'm not being overly sensitive, your claiming others won't understand your experience because it was personal. True, we can't feel what you felt exactly, but that doesn't mean the content of the story is beyond us.
You asked a question, opened a book, and saw something that sort of looked like an answer. Well done. It's still flimsy reasoning that can't stand up to questioning, which is why you can't defend it with any intellectual honesty.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 15, 2013, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 07:08:42 PM
Don't be so sensitive.
Lots of that on the forum lately. Over sensitive members that are new to the forum.
Yea, what is up with that?
There must be a shortage of chill pills.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 07:23:07 PM
Southern drawl? Your used to reading things that aren't there, I see, because I made no such joke. I'm not being overly sensitive, your claiming others won't understand your experience because it was personal. True, we can't feel what you felt exactly, but that doesn't mean the content of the story is beyond us.
You asked a question, opened a book, and saw something that sort of looked like an answer. Well done. It's still flimsy reasoning that can't stand up to questioning, which is why you can't defend it with any intellectual honesty.
I was going through problems and I was scared for my future. The book said that the man's future would be happy, if he kept his faith, and the man's name was my name. It was also the very first scripture I read when I came to a random page. That's all the proof I need. I don't have to prove anything to you. And, uh...
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 07:03:44 PM
'meanies being mean to me for no raisens'
Unless you're completely terrible at spelling, that looks to me like a southern accent of the word 'reasons'. :laugh:
I never meant any offense, and just because you've misinterpreted what I said doesn't give you an excuse to fly off the handle. Calm down.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 15, 2013, 07:26:54 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 15, 2013, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 07:08:42 PM
Don't be so sensitive.
Lots of that on the forum lately. Over sensitive members that are new to the forum.
Yea, what is up with that?
There must be a shortage of chill pills.
:laugh:
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 15, 2013, 07:26:54 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 15, 2013, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 07:08:42 PM
Don't be so sensitive.
Lots of that on the forum lately. Over sensitive members that are new to the forum.
Yea, what is up with that?
There must be a shortage of chill pills.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theicarusproject.net%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fchill_pill.preview.jpg&hash=a3956610af3fe29c2f460e43d86795eafcef24b5)
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 07:31:22 PM
I was going through problems and I was scared for my future. The book said that the man's future would be happy, if he kept his faith, and the man's name was my name. It was also the very first scripture I read when I came to a random page. That's all the proof I need. I don't have to prove anything to you. And, uh...
See, you've described how it is you came to faith. All I tried to get across was that faith is a non-answer. Even if your reasoning was completely solid (which it isn't) it still only shows that you believe. What you believe and what is plausible are two different arguments, and I'm saying that regardless of one, you've failed at the other.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 07:31:22 PM
Unless you're completely terrible at spelling, that looks to me like a southern accent of the word 'reasons'. :laugh:
Oh my. No Raisens is a meme.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 07:31:22 PM
I never meant any offense, and just because you've misinterpreted what I said doesn't give you an excuse to fly off the handle. Calm down.
See, I despise intellectual dishonesty, and the way in which Theists use it. Every time I ask someone why they believe X, they duck and weave and claim misinterpretation and personal experience and generally avoid directly answering questions. I see no difference between talking to a Christian and talking to a Medium.
Yes, I was a little too aggressive in my wording and I apologize, but perhaps you should try asking someone about how they were saved from a dark period of their life by Allah. I imagine it would be a very educational conversation for you.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 15, 2013, 07:32:38 PM
http://www.theicarusproject.net/files/images/chill_pill.preview.jpg
Oh good, the Trollwagon have started to move. That's my cue to leave for the night. Have no desire to discuss anything while stepping over failed attempts at being funny.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 07:47:48 PM
See, you've described how it is you came to faith. All I tried to get across was that faith is a non-answer. Even if your reasoning was completely solid (which it isn't) it still only shows that you believe. What you believe and what is plausible are two different arguments, and I'm saying that regardless of one, you've failed at the other.
For this very reason, I didn't expect for you to understand.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 07:47:48 PM
Oh my. No Raisens is a meme.
Oh, I didn't know that. My apologies.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 07:47:48 PM
See, I despise intellectual dishonesty, and the way in which Theists use it. Every time I ask someone why they believe X, they duck and weave and claim misinterpretation and personal experience and generally avoid directly answering questions. I see no difference between talking to a Christian and talking to a Medium.
Yes, I was a little too aggressive in my wording and I apologize, but perhaps you should try asking someone about how they were saved from a dark period of their life by Allah. I imagine it would be a very educational conversation for you.
Okay, turn that high powered perception at yourself. Why do you believe...well, whatever
you believe? Can science expressly prove it? If so bravo, if not; you, my friend, are a hypocrite. ;)
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 15, 2013, 07:47:48 PM
Oh good, the Trollwagon have started to move. That's my cue to leave for the night. Have no desire to discuss anything while stepping over failed attempts at being funny.
I thought it was pretty funny. :laugh:
I have a few questions for the religious members (that no religious person I've spoken to has been able to answer yet without doing the ol' dodge and saying "I just know" or "You gotta have faith"):
How do you know your religion is the right one?
Do different religions have different afterlifes? Or is there only one correct religion and all the others are wrong?
Let's say you were born into a different religion, would you still realistically see yourself switching to the religion you are part of now? Or do you think you would be raised to believe that the religion you were born into is the right one and you wouldn't question it?
Now I don't want this to turn into something ugly. I'm really just very curious what you have to say. Because I went to church as a kid and eventually stopped going because we were given a choice if we wanted to go or not. I started asking bigger questions and those were a few of the questions I was asking as a kid and was pretty frustrated at the time because nobody could give me a clear answer.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 06:22:13 PMObviously, the phrase "Spare the rod, spoil the child." comes to mind when I think of things that I don't agree with in the bible. I go by my gut when I make decisions in my life. I don't follow the bible with everything I do.
I can understand not following that bit of "advice", but why go with the rest of the stuff and still be considered a Christian? Why not pitch the batch and be of another religion (or "non-religion") that has good stuff? Or be, for want of a better word, a "Dovahkiinian"? To me, being a Christian and deciding what to accept from God and not is like disobeying a parent. Sure, parents like to give their kids some independence, but they still had rules to obey.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 06:22:13 PMAnd I believe in God because myself and several members of my family have had several unexplainable experiences when it comes to God. Like I said, I'm not completely ignoring the possibility that he doesn't exist, but I suppose it just comes down to a question of personal faith.
So, let me get this straight: you don't know what was behind certain things, so it must be something that you didn't know for sure had a hand in the workings, and you chose to believe in this thing because you like the idea of it, and you're not willing to do just anything it instructs you to do?
I'm also wondering what attributes God has that you had recognized in a signature left at these events that removes fairies, unicorns, genies, et al., from being responsible for the occurances?
Quote from: Vickers on Sep 15, 2013, 07:59:26 PM
How do you know your religion is the right one?
Do different religions have different afterlifes? Or is there only one correct religion and all the others are wrong?
Let's say you were born into a different religion, would you still realistically see yourself switching to the religion you are part of now? Or do you think you would be raised to believe that the religion you were born into is the right one and you wouldn't question it?
Question 1: I don't know if it is.
Question 2: I don't know if they do.
Question 3: I would honestly probably stay in the religion I was born into.
I've done plenty of questioning of Christianity for sure, I don't discount the possibility that God isn't real and I keep an open mind to everything. If science is able to prove without a doubt that God doesn't exist, then I'll accept it. Until then, however, I'm going to believe.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 08:05:47 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 06:22:13 PMObviously, the phrase "Spare the rod, spoil the child." comes to mind when I think of things that I don't agree with in the bible. I go by my gut when I make decisions in my life. I don't follow the bible with everything I do.
I can understand not following that bit of "advice", but why go with the rest of the stuff and still be considered a Christian? Why not pitch the batch and be of another religion (or "non-religion") that has good stuff? Or be, for want of a better word, a "Dovahkiinian"?
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 06:22:13 PMAnd I believe in God because myself and several members of my family have had several unexplainable experiences when it comes to God. Like I said, I'm not completely ignoring the possibility that he doesn't exist, but I suppose it just comes down to a question of personal faith.
So, let me get this straight: you don't know what was behind certain things, so it must be something that you didn't had a hand in the workings, and you chose to believe in this thing because you like the idea of it, and you're not willing to do just anything it instructs you to do?
I'm also wondering what attributes God has that you had recognized in a signature left at these events that removes fairies, unicorns, genies, et al., from being responsible for the occurances?
I'm getting tired of this philosophical discussion. Read the above statement. I'm done.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 08:07:55 PM
Quote from: Vickers on Sep 15, 2013, 07:59:26 PM
How do you know your religion is the right one?
Do different religions have different afterlifes? Or is there only one correct religion and all the others are wrong?
Let's say you were born into a different religion, would you still realistically see yourself switching to the religion you are part of now? Or do you think you would be raised to believe that the religion you were born into is the right one and you wouldn't question it?
Question 1: I don't know if it is.
Question 2: I don't know if they do.
Question 3: I would honestly probably stay in the religion I was born into.
Thanks for your honesty. :)
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 08:07:55 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 08:05:47 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 06:22:13 PMObviously, the phrase "Spare the rod, spoil the child." comes to mind when I think of things that I don't agree with in the bible. I go by my gut when I make decisions in my life. I don't follow the bible with everything I do.
I can understand not following that bit of "advice", but why go with the rest of the stuff and still be considered a Christian? Why not pitch the batch and be of another religion (or "non-religion") that has good stuff? Or be, for want of a better word, a "Dovahkiinian"?
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 06:22:13 PMAnd I believe in God because myself and several members of my family have had several unexplainable experiences when it comes to God. Like I said, I'm not completely ignoring the possibility that he doesn't exist, but I suppose it just comes down to a question of personal faith.
So, let me get this straight: you don't know what was behind certain things, so it must be something that you didn't had a hand in the workings, and you chose to believe in this thing because you like the idea of it, and you're not willing to do just anything it instructs you to do?
I'm also wondering what attributes God has that you had recognized in a signature left at these events that removes fairies, unicorns, genies, et al., from being responsible for the occurances?
I'm getting tired of this philosophical discussion. Read the above statement. I'm done.
But I had posted that before you made this statement. Would you please honor the questions as a courtesy before you ride off? It's nearly impossible to discuss Yahweh or any other god without being philosophical.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 08:16:14 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 08:07:55 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 15, 2013, 08:05:47 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 06:22:13 PMObviously, the phrase "Spare the rod, spoil the child." comes to mind when I think of things that I don't agree with in the bible. I go by my gut when I make decisions in my life. I don't follow the bible with everything I do.
I can understand not following that bit of "advice", but why go with the rest of the stuff and still be considered a Christian? Why not pitch the batch and be of another religion (or "non-religion") that has good stuff? Or be, for want of a better word, a "Dovahkiinian"?
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 06:22:13 PMAnd I believe in God because myself and several members of my family have had several unexplainable experiences when it comes to God. Like I said, I'm not completely ignoring the possibility that he doesn't exist, but I suppose it just comes down to a question of personal faith.
So, let me get this straight: you don't know what was behind certain things, so it must be something that you didn't had a hand in the workings, and you chose to believe in this thing because you like the idea of it, and you're not willing to do just anything it instructs you to do?
I'm also wondering what attributes God has that you had recognized in a signature left at these events that removes fairies, unicorns, genies, et al., from being responsible for the occurances?
I'm getting tired of this philosophical discussion. Read the above statement. I'm done.
But I had posted that before you made this statement. Would you please honor the questions as a courtesy before you ride off? It's nearly impossible to discuss Yahweh or any other god without being philosophical.
Okay. For your first question, I interpret the bible in my own way. I go by what I deem as right, which the Bible has a lot of great principles to live by in it. But also, it calls homosexuality an abomination. (Among condemning other things that I don't agree with.) I have several gay friends, so I don't accept that part. And "Dovahkiinian"...I'll have to look into that. :laugh:
Yes, I consider my experience a validation of my faith. No, I don't follow some things from the bible and if that's some cardinal sin or something, which I doubt, I don't really mind.
I apologize if I seemed discourteous by not answering your questions. I despise discourtesy with every fiber of my being.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 08:22:40 PMOkay. For your first question, I interpret the bible in my own way. I go by what I deem as right, which the Bible has a lot of great principles to live by in it.
So, what you mean by that is that I am totally awesome and
Sabby is pretty kickass, too, right?
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 08:22:40 PMBut also, it calls homosexuality an abomination. (Among condemning other things that I don't agree with.) I have several gay friends, so I don't accept that part. And "Dovahkiinian"...I'll have to look into that. :laugh:
Damn, you ruined my favorite trap. I love watching clean shaven people (or people with tats) bitch about homosexuals. And don't you dare get me started on mixed fibers! No...no...
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 08:22:40 PMYes, I consider my experience a validation of my faith. No, I don't follow some things from the bible and if that's some cardinal sin or something, which I doubt, I don't really mind.
I'm aware of those things, but I was wondering about the justification for disobeying a being that not only do you worship, but is said to have the power to create the universe and all that is within and has a steady track record for killing those who do not agree with him. Rumor has it he once killed a planet's population, save for a few people and some fauna. With that in mind, I'd best not piss him off and do what I'm told. How'd you gather the courage to tell him "No, I ain't gonna do it!"?
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Sep 15, 2013, 08:22:40 PMI apologize if I seemed discourteous by not answering your questions. I despise discourtesy with every fiber of my being.
Thank you and I hope I do not seem that way to you. I really am sincere with these questions, but those of a faint heart tend to cry troll when they cannot answer these questions, so your answers are appreciated.
I remember watching a Christopher Hitchens interview/argument, where he essentially illustrated how religions are obsessed with death and the destruction of this world, in the sense that the objective for our entire existence is to die and move on to the 'next world'. He really underlined how the most avid religious believers almost couldn't wait for the end of the world to come.
The man can be an argumentative and single-minded brute (entertaining and well spoken nonetheless), but giving it some thought, you can't deny that he has a point.
As for the Bible... it contains some pretty nasty stuff... it essentially endorses slavery, murder, warfare, misogyny, ethnic cleansing and what have you, if you are righteous in your motives.
Quote from: Eva on Sep 15, 2013, 09:19:27 PMI remember watching a Christopher Hitchens interview/argument, where he essentially illustrated how religions are obsessed with death and the destruction of this world, in the sense that the objective for our entire existence is to die and move on to the 'next world'. He really underlined how the most avid religious believers almost couldn't wait for the end of the world to come.
The man can be an argumentative and single-minded brute (entertaining and well spoken nonetheless), but giving it some thought, you can't deny that he has a point.
One really should scrutinize a crucifix when they see one. Lenny Bruce once said, "If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses."
I all too often hear people complain about how argumentive and blunt Hitchens, Dawkins, et al., are and I wonder what the big deal is. I hear people on the religious side spew vitriol just the same. If anything, it's been going on a lot longer.
Quote from: Eva on Sep 15, 2013, 09:19:27 PMAs for the Bible... it contains some pretty nasty stuff... it essentially endorses slavery, murder, warfare, misogyny, ethnic cleansing and what have you, if you are righteous in your motives.
A lot of people either deny or downplay that stuff if they don't employ it.
I'm sorry, but if somebody presents me with a belief system that has things I don't like, I reject it alltogether and either look for another one or create one. (Come to think of it, people do create new systems for themselves and claim that they are adherents of the system from where they sprung and they deny creating a new system as well.)
Ohhh how I like to avoid these conversations because it feels so touchy.
I personally just live and let live. I believe everyone has the right to choose for themselves what religious belief they wish to follow, they can even choose atheism. I don't like it when people try to prove another belief wrong and etc, especially when an atheist goes at a religious person's throat, I despise that stuff.
I follow my own rule, to just mind my own business when it comes to other's religious beliefs. Believe whatever I choose for myself but don't go sticking my nose in others religious beliefs even if they are the same. None of my business and I humbly believe it's not my place to question another's beliefs. If they have done me no personal harm than they can belief whatever their heart desires.
Personally, I usually keep my own beliefs in reserve, so as to give religious/atheism debaters a reason to not talk to me, I don't like their attention.
This is just my 2 cents.
So many Theists love to hide behind the live and let live, but when two men wanna get married their not too concerned with other peoples personal freedom.
I'd be more then happy to live and let live, but not while Religion has it's unreal pull in society. Making Theists accountable for their beliefs is not invasive or bullying, it's something every person and organization in the modern world has to go throw, and we've been fed this lie that Religion is special and there for exempt from this.
I'll live and let live when they live and let me live.
QuoteMaking Theists accountable for their beliefs is not invasive or bullying
Does holding atheists accountable for stupid generalisations count as invasive or bullying?
Of course not, and if you can point me to any such generalizations, please do so :P Wording like 'Theists like to' is a bit dicey, as it looks very generalizing, but I don't use it in that way. I'll edit that for clarities sake.
QuoteTheists love to hide behind the live and let live, but when two men wanna get married their not too concerned with other peoples personal freedom.
So if I believe in a God or Gods, I automatically must think two dudes can't get married then?
Unless you're living in some kind of Theocracy, "many theists"
do let you live and let live.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 16, 2013, 06:13:26 AM
I'd be more then happy to live and let live, but not while Religion has it's unreal pull in society. Making Theists accountable for their beliefs is not invasive or bullying, it's something every person and organization in the modern world has to go throw, and we've been fed this lie that Religion is special and there for exempt from this.
I'll live and let live when they live and let me live.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1361.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr676%2FJokersWarPig92%2FDustinMattson10-305x457_zps4470774a.jpg&hash=2e58bdfa83c515cbadc6be70b4c822b2b02c830c) (http://s1361.photobucket.com/user/JokersWarPig92/media/DustinMattson10-305x457_zps4470774a.jpg.html)
Quote from: SM on Sep 16, 2013, 06:51:13 AM
QuoteTheists love to hide behind the live and let live, but when two men wanna get married their not too concerned with other peoples personal freedom.
So if I believe in a God or Gods, I automatically must think two dudes can't get married then?
Even when Crazy Rich, and Dovahkin don't think anything like that. :laugh:
Crazy Rich and Dovahkin should be able to get married.
Quote from: SM on Sep 16, 2013, 06:51:13 AM
QuoteTheists love to hide behind the live and let live, but when two men wanna get married their not too concerned with other peoples personal freedom.
So if I believe in a God or Gods, I automatically must think two dudes can't get married then?
Unless you're living in some kind of Theocracy, "many theists" do let you live and let live.
Where the hell did you get the idea I was saying all Theists believe in that?
I merely point to the fact that this kind of crap happens and it's not being opposed enough.
Why is that hiding? I see it more as embracing, it's a matter of
perspective I suppose.
I also don't appreciate that condescending tone that attempts to make me feel inferior with generalizations just because I have a belief that isn't atheism.
I'm not even
that religious (hence this talk of lies and special treatment comes across as very silly and paranoid- lololol I'll listen when religious people get a 30% raise but not atheists tell me that shit), I just believe in being tolerant and respectful to someone's religious beliefs even if they are not my own beliefs.
You don't see me going after the atheist for what they believe in, so why should they come at me? What have I done to provoke such a thing? Seems rather rude.
Quote from: SM on Sep 16, 2013, 06:57:52 AM
Crazy Rich and Dovahkin should be able to get married.
I'd hit that.
You seem to be working on the assumption that my opposition is to you personally, and not the belief system you subscribe to. I don't care how moderate you are in your Theism, my opposition is to the belief system as a whole. Pointing out you don't subscribe to homophobia doesn't change the fact that homophobia is being supported.
QuoteWhere the hell did you get the idea I was saying all Theists believe in that?
From the very fact you had to go back and change your post from "Theists love to hide..." to "Many theists love to hide..."
QuoteI merely point to the fact that this kind of crap happens and it's not being opposed enough.
It's opposed enough for many places to recognise if not legalise same sex marriage. And more will follow.
It's only a matter of time until it's legal everywhere in the states. Hell, a lot of churches and Christians DO SUPPORT same sex marriage. It's just been a very slow transition.
Quote from: SM on Sep 16, 2013, 07:03:39 AM
QuoteWhere the hell did you get the idea I was saying all Theists believe in that?
From the very fact you had to go back and change your post from "Theists love to hide..." to "Many theists love to hide..."
QuoteI merely point to the fact that this kind of crap happens and it's not being opposed enough.
It's opposed enough for many places to recognise if not legalise same sex marriage. And more will follow.
1. I did acknowledge the poor wording, yes, and I corrected it. Thank you for pointing it out.
2. Good, and it'll be opposed much easier if people would stop saying things like 'it's a religious issue' or 'the Bible says marriage is a man and a woman'.
1. You asked.
2. Those sorts of people will be in the minority, but ultimately not going to happen. And it's naive to think you'll ever get 100% support for anything, let alone gay marriage.
Quote from: SM on Sep 16, 2013, 07:10:03 AM
And it's naive to think you'll ever get 100% support for anything, let alone gay marriage.
I have no such expectations, but that small minority gets much more mileage then it should by using Religions privileged status. Pointing out that not all Theists think this way doesn't address the problem.
Those kinds of extremists invariably get hoisted on their own petard.
Most places still have legal provisions for freedom of speech. If they want to look dopey and out of touch, let them.
Speaking of tolerance, check this guy out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpNRw7snmGM#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpNRw7snmGM#ws)
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 16, 2013, 03:59:57 AM
Ohhh how I like to avoid these conversations because it feels so touchy.
Then what the hell are you doing here?!
;)
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 16, 2013, 03:59:57 AMI personally just live and let live. I believe everyone has the right to choose for themselves what religious belief they wish to follow, they can even choose atheism. I don't like it when people try to prove another belief wrong and etc, especially when an atheist goes at a religious person's throat, I despise that stuff.
Having the right to believe whatever you want looks good on paper, but when it interferes with other people it's not cool. With religion, you don't stop at yourself with your ideas. You rope in your family and anybody else you can. Sometimes you try to get those who resist you to accomodate your beliefs. Sometimes you try to sell your beliefs as a version of reality, and that's pretty disturbing. It may seem fun to believe in bridge-constructing unicorns, but why bother?
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 16, 2013, 03:59:57 AMI follow my own rule, to just mind my own business when it comes to other's religious beliefs. Believe whatever I choose for myself but don't go sticking my nose in others religious beliefs even if they are the same. None of my business and I humbly believe it's not my place to question another's beliefs. If they have done me no personal harm than they can belief whatever their heart desires.
To be honest with you, the non-religious are on defense. Where the religious try to stick their business into our schools, government, bedrooms and everywhere else, it's the atheists who try to keep them away. We don't go into your churches and tell you what to pray.
Quote from: SM on Sep 16, 2013, 06:40:18 AMDoes holding atheists accountable for stupid generalisations count as invasive or bullying?
Ask theists about theirs.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 16, 2013, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 16, 2013, 03:59:57 AM
Ohhh how I like to avoid these conversations because it feels so touchy.
Then what the hell are you doing here?!
;)
To give my two cents in a thread that seems kinda one sided.
I don't know about the rest of the world, but I got along famously with muslim friends, atheist friends, jewish friends, christain friends all in one close group of people in high school. None of us ever tried to enforce anything on each other. So we'll have to agree to disagree.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 16, 2013, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 16, 2013, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 16, 2013, 03:59:57 AM
Ohhh how I like to avoid these conversations because it feels so touchy.
Then what the hell are you doing here?!
;)
To give my two cents in a thread that seems kinda one sided.
Notice that little winking smiley? I was pointing out an irony.
Speaking of atheists, is anyone else here a fan of TJ Kirk, aka The Amazing Atheist? He's definitely the vocal one but I typically like his videos.
I'm impartial to him :) He ranges from hilarious to obnoxious, but I think that's more because he tends to take his time in making his points. A lot of excessive swearing and such. He spends 10 minutes making fun of a guy before getting into why he should be made fun of.
When he does get to the point, he's generally funny and on the mark.
Nonstampcollector is one of my favourites. It's just so nice to hear the anti-religious arguments in an Australian accent xD
I like just about any comedian. Almost all of them are atheists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WPvSo8AYdM#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WPvSo8AYdM#ws)
Jim Jefferies is great for that :3
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 18, 2013, 03:01:24 PM
I like just about any comedian. Almost all of them are atheists.
Yet they make more sense than theists. Go figure.
Well, stock up on the wisdom from these modern philosophers. You may want to repeat some of it because Blasphemy Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_Day) is the 30th.
I view the different factions of religion the same way I view different strains of disease...
Quote from: DC on Sep 18, 2013, 04:10:48 PM
I view the different factions of religion the same way I view different strains of disease...
It has been proven that religion is a type of mental illness, adherents display the same behavior as schizophrenics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haBLjVqrrjM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haBLjVqrrjM)
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 18, 2013, 04:00:30 PM
Well, stock up on the wisdom from these modern philosophers. You may want to repeat some of it because Blasphemy Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_Day) is the 30th.
Until then, please bask in the gloriness that is the Dredd Day of Action!
(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1186305_341759509293853_684107074_n.jpg)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 18, 2013, 05:48:18 PM
Quote from: DC on Sep 18, 2013, 04:10:48 PM
I view the different factions of religion the same way I view different strains of disease...
It has been proven that religion is a type of mental illness, adherents display the same behavior as schizophrenics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haBLjVqrrjM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haBLjVqrrjM)
Hmmm, I disagree with the video, since it seems to make the assertion that holding illogical beliefs is the same thing as being mentally ill. I used to believe (when I was 12) that aliens existed and that their ships took them through planes of existence so they could travel to Saturn as it exists in a parallel world, where they are close to us in space-time but not vibrating at our universes frequency.
Yes, I was retarded to believe this, but if that made me mentally ill, then I recovered somehow :P I just call it being misinformed and not applying my critical thinking skills.
For religion as a mental illness, however, there are some cases. It has to do with being raised into Religion, the damage can't really happen in adulthood. Basically, the part of your brain that evaluates information stops working, since you shut it down so much as a kid. Just believe X, stop questioning X, we won't love you unless you love X. So whenever X came up, your critical thinking department just powers down.
And yes, this leads to actual brain damage, but I do feel saying 'religious people are mentally ill' is a bit inaccurate (and I say that as an Antitheist). You gotta be indoctrinated from birth, and pretty viciously at that, in order to get that kind of damage.
Mental illness and having faith in a religion are two different things.
I hope you didn't read my post as saying they weren't.
No I didn't, but if you said they where then I don't think you know very much about mental illness.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 18, 2013, 05:57:57 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 18, 2013, 04:00:30 PM
Well, stock up on the wisdom from these modern philosophers. You may want to repeat some of it because Blasphemy Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_Day) is the 30th.
Until then, please bask in the gloriness that is the Dredd Day of Action!
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1186305_341759509293853_684107074_n.jpg
I just bought another copy of Dredd a couple of hours ago for this.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 18, 2013, 06:20:32 PM
Mental illness and having faith in a religion are two different things.
But they are alike in many ways, namely not being able to tell what's real or not. In a more perfect world, religionists would be sent to a looney bin.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 18, 2013, 08:23:02 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 18, 2013, 06:20:32 PM
Mental illness and having faith in a religion are two different things.
But they are alike in many ways, namely not being able to tell what's real or not. In a more perfect world, religionists would be sent to a looney bin.
You can't disprove or prove any religion.
Your "in a more perfect world" comment also leads me to believe you're one of "those" Atheists and you judge people based more on their religious beliefs rather than just being tolerant of it and letting it be.
That is a very inflammatory wording, but let me ask you this.
What is the difference between God and Fairies?
Both exist in culture and literature, both have people convinced they exist, yet ask either side why they believe in it, and you get they 'just do'. They may bring up arguments, but for the most part if you persist you can strip those arguments away until the person only has "I just believe".
Why is the baseless assertion that God exists more credible then the baseless assertion of Fairies? My answer is that it's not, just one has the advantage of being more culturally prominent. It's a might makes right position that has nothing to do with logic or facts.
Pointing out that you can't disprove God is irrelevant. You can't disprove Fairies either. They turn invisible. Will you accept that belief in Fairies is not illogical because they can't be disproven?
Take any argument in favor of a deity and replace the deities name with 'Fairies'. The argument immediately sounds childish and insane. Think about that.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 18, 2013, 08:31:10 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 18, 2013, 08:23:02 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 18, 2013, 06:20:32 PM
Mental illness and having faith in a religion are two different things.
But they are alike in many ways, namely not being able to tell what's real or not. In a more perfect world, religionists would be sent to a looney bin.
You can't disprove or prove any religion.
Your "in a more perfect world" comment also leads me to believe you're one of "those" Atheists and you judge people based more on their religious beliefs rather than just being tolerant of it and letting it be.
Can't help but to agree with you JWP.
I get the idea to question and fight all forms of religious fundamentalism & conservatism, but fighting all religion the same and likening moderate believers' personal faith & beliefs as mental illness sounds in a way just as intolerant as the views and rules of the very same religious authoritarians you're fighting.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Sep 18, 2013, 08:45:26 PM
I get the idea to question and fight all forms of religious fundamentalism & conservatism, but fighting all religion the same and likening moderate believers' personal faith & beliefs as mental illness sounds in a way just as intolerant as the views and rules of the very sane religious authoritarians you're fighting.
Even I agree on this one.
QuoteYour "in a more perfect world" comment also leads me to believe you're one of "those" Atheists and you judge people based more on their religious beliefs rather than just being tolerant of it and letting it be.
The term you're looking for is 'self-absorbed condescending f**kwit'.
Sadly they are legion.
Quote from: SM on Sep 18, 2013, 11:08:24 PMThe term you're looking for is 'self-absorbed condescending f**kwit'.
Sadly they are legion.
There are legions more on the other side of the fence.
I Find militant atheist have low self esteem they're like that kid whose always boasting about great he is without anything
to back it up look at look at me i don't believe in god or religion oh i'm so intellectual without knowing the meaning of the word
Yep. Fortunately many people eventually grow out of that juvenile dribble.
Quote from: jeffchow on Sep 18, 2013, 11:20:41 PMI Find militant atheist have low self esteem they're like that kid whose always boasting about great he is without anything to back it up look at look at me i don't believe in god or religion oh i'm so intellectual without knowing the meaning of the word
First of all, what is a "militant atheist"? And, secondly, the reason why you don't hear an atheist backing anything up is probably because you plug your ears the minute you find out that they don't believe in the same things you do.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 18, 2013, 11:28:12 PM
Quote from: jeffchow on Sep 18, 2013, 11:20:41 PMI Find militant atheist have low self esteem they're like that kid whose always boasting about great he is without anything to back it up look at look at me i don't believe in god or religion oh i'm so intellectual without knowing the meaning of the word
First of all, what is a "militant atheist"? And, secondly, the reason why you don't hear an atheist backing anything up is probably because you plug your ears the minute you find out that they don't believe in the same things you do.
You just proved my point
Quote from: jeffchow on Sep 18, 2013, 11:48:02 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 18, 2013, 11:28:12 PM
Quote from: jeffchow on Sep 18, 2013, 11:20:41 PMI Find militant atheist have low self esteem they're like that kid whose always boasting about great he is without anything to back it up look at look at me i don't believe in god or religion oh i'm so intellectual without knowing the meaning of the word
First of all, what is a "militant atheist"? And, secondly, the reason why you don't hear an atheist backing anything up is probably because you plug your ears the minute you find out that they don't believe in the same things you do.
You just proved my point
Except for that huge part where I didn't do the things that you claim atheists do. By not answering my question and not backing up what you had said, you proved my point and trapped yourself in your own web.
I already explained what a militant atheist was there was no need answer you'll find it was quite accurate and yes you proved my point by not backing yourself up You're getting defensive now admittedly at a high school level
Quote from: jeffchow on Sep 19, 2013, 02:32:56 AM
I already explained what a militant atheist was there was no need answer you'll find it was quite accurate and yes you proved my point by not backing yourself up You're getting defensive now admittedly at a high school level
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm what?
I've never heard of a "militant atheist". This sounds like a debate I had with mal yonks ago, but I will say that atheists are not violent people like some (key word) religious folks are. There are people who give atheists a bad name but they do not commit acts in the name of atheism.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 19, 2013, 02:48:10 AM
I've never heard of a "militant atheist". This sounds like a debate I had with mal yonks ago, but I will say that atheists are not violent people like some (key word) religious folks are. There are people who give atheists a bad name but they do not commit acts in the name of atheism.
militant atheist are not violent they're just annoying not evil just annoying
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 19, 2013, 02:42:24 AM
Quote from: jeffchow on Sep 19, 2013, 02:32:56 AM
I already explained what a militant atheist was there was no need answer you'll find it was quite accurate and yes you proved my point by not backing yourself up You're getting defensive now admittedly at a high school level
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm what?
Yeah i don't know i'm getting annoying :-[
screw it i'm going back to los santos
Hmmm, let me put it in terms I think even the religious of the board can agree with.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1011511_537887782952378_673400657_n.jpg)
If more Theists could grasp this, I would be a vanilla Atheist.
All that's missing is
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk%2Fi%2Fyoure-not-the-boss-of-me.png&hash=3ba17fd22330f1f7889022810ba1e7a5e7dc56d0)
and
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-UnhiA_6q9MY%2FT4M0WupVcrI%2FAAAAAAAABMo%2FpAyZkCY59vU%2Fs320%2Fcartman-i-do-what-i-want.jpg&hash=786d2f5243f702fa6257958025a710fc4c490a55)
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 19, 2013, 04:27:43 AM
Hmmm, let me put it in terms I think even the religious of the board can agree with.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1011511_537887782952378_673400657_n.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fmlpfanart%2Fimages%2Fa%2Fab%2F3879_-_animated_gif_chuck_norris_dodgeball_thumbs_up.gif&hash=5419b95e2147dbce901e4a33e4572ff3fb4719ca)
Quote from: SM on Sep 19, 2013, 04:56:35 AM
All that's missing is
http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/youre-not-the-boss-of-me.png
and
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UnhiA_6q9MY/T4M0WupVcrI/AAAAAAAABMo/pAyZkCY59vU/s320/cartman-i-do-what-i-want.jpg
Yes. Those are entirely the same thing. Refusing to tolerate indoctrination, threats, active degradation of education, ritualized intolerance and the brainwashing of children is just like spoilt child acting out.
I don't mind you being a Troll, but do try and be funny as well :P Step up your game or stop playing.
Once again.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-STjLBR-MH0M%2FT58PKHQQdjI%2FAAAAAAAAAKk%2Fv8Er5wDWh08%2Fs1600%2FI%2BApprove.jpg&hash=c90b63369a9284a1efe2a7e7a7844e88c703c093)
I am honestly surprised anyone is religious on AVPG to be honest. I am borderline atheist.
Quote from: Predator Queen on Sep 19, 2013, 06:24:02 AM
I am honestly surprised anyone is religious on AVPG to be honest. I am borderline atheist.
Wait, first you say that you're surprised that anyone is religious and then you say that you're borderline atheist? ???
On the forum...
I know...
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 19, 2013, 06:27:34 AM
Quote from: Predator Queen on Sep 19, 2013, 06:24:02 AM
I am honestly surprised anyone is religious on AVPG to be honest. I am borderline atheist.
Wait, first you say that you're surprised that anyone is religious and then you say that you're borderline atheist? ???
I am not religious per say? I am not really sure how to describe it.
Your sitting on the fence basically. Or not really concerned with the fence. I think there's been more then one Apatheists in here so far, so your not alone :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOexLf0YVOU#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOexLf0YVOU#ws)
Crying from laughter xD
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 19, 2013, 02:48:10 AM
I've never heard of a "militant atheist". This sounds like a debate I had with mal yonks ago, but I will say that atheists are not violent people like some (key word) religious folks are. There are people who give atheists a bad name but they do not commit acts in the name of atheism.
Yep there are the few that give the rest a bad name unfortunately both religious and atheists :(
Quote from: jeffchow on Sep 19, 2013, 02:32:56 AM
I already explained what a militant atheist was there was no need answer you'll find it was quite accurate and yes you proved my point by not backing yourself up You're getting defensive now admittedly at a high school level
I get it: if someone responds to you in a rational manner then they are defensive. Plus, you accuse others of your own misdoings. Got it.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 19, 2013, 02:48:10 AMI've never heard of a "militant atheist". This sounds like a debate I had with mal yonks ago, but I will say that atheists are not violent people like some (key word) religious folks are. There are people who give atheists a bad name but they do not commit acts in the name of atheism.
A "militant atheist" is a person who doesn't believe in gods or goddesses and writes books about it and who explain why they don't want religious influence in secular settings. Here's their danger level:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcuPef.jpg&hash=30756161a776f0e469fdb99c76059176af517956)
Quote from: SM on Sep 19, 2013, 04:56:35 AM
All that's missing is
http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/youre-not-the-boss-of-me.png
Snarkiness aside, that
is missing, especially with the way the Xtian Right are trying to put their influence on the secular.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 18, 2013, 08:31:10 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 18, 2013, 08:23:02 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 18, 2013, 06:20:32 PM
Mental illness and having faith in a religion are two different things.
But they are alike in many ways, namely not being able to tell what's real or not. In a more perfect world, religionists would be sent to a looney bin.
You can't disprove or prove any religion.
Your "in a more perfect world" comment also leads me to believe you're one of "those" Atheists and you judge people based more on their religious beliefs rather than just being tolerant of it and letting it be.
People forget that we are in a war against irrationality and illogic. Why should rational and sexy atheists tolerate religionist fundie terrorists and child f*cking priests? We as a civilization would be better off and 1,000 years more advanced if Christianity and Islam never rooted itself into the trench it's dug itself into.
Religion is a biproduct of the real problem though, not the actual cause. I realize a lot of Atheists blame Christianity for the ills of the first world, but really, these stem from a lack of education and quality of life.
If we improved the living conditions, happiness and intelligence of the average citizen, Religion would shrivel up. Maybe not disappear, but it would be practiced entirely differently then we see now. It wouldn't be this constant and misguided opposition to social change and scientific facts like it is now, it would just be a 'spiritual' element to people who don't allow it to interfere with their reasoning skills.
That's a world I want, and if anyone wanted to try and twist that into 'lol your so entolrent', then they're f**king idiots grasping at anything they can find.
You're not gonna get anywhere with people if you're calling them, "f**king idiots."
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 19, 2013, 05:05:07 PM
People forget that we are in a war against irrationality and illogic. Why should rational and sexy atheists tolerate religionist fundie terrorists and child f*cking priests? We as a civilization would be better off and 1,000 years more advanced if Christianity and Islam never rooted itself into the trench it's dug itself into.
Where's your evidence?
QuoteYou're not gonna get anywhere with people if you're calling them, "f**king idiots."
Maybe that wasn't his goal? He was making a point, and it doesn't need your approval. It never needed mine, yet I still approve, I never tried to assert my word as somehow being 'authoritative', now did I? He doesn't need to convince you of anything, knowing you I wouldn't bother . . .
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 19, 2013, 05:05:07 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 18, 2013, 08:31:10 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 18, 2013, 08:23:02 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 18, 2013, 06:20:32 PM
Mental illness and having faith in a religion are two different things.
But they are alike in many ways, namely not being able to tell what's real or not. In a more perfect world, religionists would be sent to a looney bin.
You can't disprove or prove any religion.
Your "in a more perfect world" comment also leads me to believe you're one of "those" Atheists and you judge people based more on their religious beliefs rather than just being tolerant of it and letting it be.
People forget that we are in a war against irrationality and illogic. Why should rational and sexy atheists tolerate religionist fundie terrorists and child f*cking priests? We as a civilization would be better off and 1,000 years more advanced if Christianity and Islam never rooted itself into the trench it's dug itself into.
Before Christianity or Islam other religions existed, Paganism for example. If Christianity and Islam didn't exist there would be another form of them in its place. So the argument that if those 2 particular religions didn't exist we would be better off is invalid.
Religion isn't the problem with the world, its the people that use it as an excuse to cause conflict that's the problem.
I know more people who keep their religion to themselves and have no problem with other's choice in religion or their lack of choice in one for that matter.
The only people I've met who advertise their beliefs (or lack there of) and that I've felt have looked down on me or other because of mine are Atheists. A little more than half of the ones I've dealt with have been nice people to talk to, and have carried on friendly debates about God vs Science (etc), I've also met the ones that have been nothing more than a snobby attitude, pretentious douche bags.
The way you say religion is a problem for the world I could say Atheism is a problem for society. Neither argument really works because it isn't the beliefs as a whole that are the problem, but rather the individual and how they choose to act.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 19, 2013, 06:12:10 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 19, 2013, 05:05:07 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 18, 2013, 08:31:10 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 18, 2013, 08:23:02 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 18, 2013, 06:20:32 PM
Mental illness and having faith in a religion are two different things.
But they are alike in many ways, namely not being able to tell what's real or not. In a more perfect world, religionists would be sent to a looney bin.
You can't disprove or prove any religion.
Your "in a more perfect world" comment also leads me to believe you're one of "those" Atheists and you judge people based more on their religious beliefs rather than just being tolerant of it and letting it be.
People forget that we are in a war against irrationality and illogic. Why should rational and sexy atheists tolerate religionist fundie terrorists and child f*cking priests? We as a civilization would be better off and 1,000 years more advanced if Christianity and Islam never rooted itself into the trench it's dug itself into.
Before Christianity or Islam other religions existed, Paganism for example. If Christianity and Islam didn't exist there would be another form of them in its place. So the argument that if those 2 particular religions didn't exist we would be better off is invalid.
Religion isn't the problem with the world, its the people that use it as an excuse to cause conflict that's the problem.
I know more people who keep their religion to themselves and have no problem with other's choice in religion or their lack of choice in one for that matter.
The only people I've met who advertise their beliefs (or lack there of) and that I've felt have looked down on me or other because of mine are Atheists. A little more than half of the ones I've dealt with have been nice people to talk to, and have carried on friendly debates about God vs Science (etc), I've also met the ones that have been nothing more than a snobby attitude, pretentious douche bags.
The way you say religion is a problem for the world I could say Atheism is a problem for society. Neither argument really works because it isn't the beliefs as a whole that are the problem, but rather the individual and how they choose to act.
I share your views on this JWP.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 19, 2013, 05:53:51 PM
You're not gonna get anywhere with people if you're calling them, "f**king idiots."
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 19, 2013, 05:05:07 PM
People forget that we are in a war against irrationality and illogic. Why should rational and sexy atheists tolerate religionist fundie terrorists and child f*cking priests? We as a civilization would be better off and 1,000 years more advanced if Christianity and Islam never rooted itself into the trench it's dug itself into.
Where's your evidence?
Here
http://youtu.be/6p5jnqEyUs4 (http://youtu.be/6p5jnqEyUs4)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 19, 2013, 08:08:54 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Sep 19, 2013, 05:53:51 PM
You're not gonna get anywhere with people if you're calling them, "f**king idiots."
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 19, 2013, 05:05:07 PM
People forget that we are in a war against irrationality and illogic. Why should rational and sexy atheists tolerate religionist fundie terrorists and child f*cking priests? We as a civilization would be better off and 1,000 years more advanced if Christianity and Islam never rooted itself into the trench it's dug itself into.
Where's your evidence?
Here
http://youtu.be/6p5jnqEyUs4 (http://youtu.be/6p5jnqEyUs4)
Oh.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 19, 2013, 05:05:07 PM
People forget that we are in a war against irrationality and illogic. Why should rational and sexy atheists tolerate religionist fundie terrorists and child f*cking priests? We as a civilization would be better off and 1,000 years more advanced if Christianity and Islam never rooted itself into the trench it's dug itself into.
An extremely black/white view on a very complex period of European history. To add, the idea that the dark ages were a period of years where all progress halted (mainly caused by religious intervention), has been completely debunked by now.
Would you have preferred The Roman Empire to have survived and colonized/conqured all continents on Earth by now? I doubt we would have been better off in that scenario.
As for the religious beliefs = mental illness comparison... that's pretty far out...
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 19, 2013, 05:05:07 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 18, 2013, 08:31:10 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 18, 2013, 08:23:02 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 18, 2013, 06:20:32 PM
Mental illness and having faith in a religion are two different things.
But they are alike in many ways, namely not being able to tell what's real or not. In a more perfect world, religionists would be sent to a looney bin.
You can't disprove or prove any religion.
Your "in a more perfect world" comment also leads me to believe you're one of "those" Atheists and you judge people based more on their religious beliefs rather than just being tolerant of it and letting it be.
People forget that we are in a war against irrationality and illogic. Why should rational and sexy atheists tolerate religionist fundie terrorists and child f*cking priests? We as a civilization would be better off and 1,000 years more advanced if Christianity and Islam never rooted itself into the trench it's dug itself into.
We'd still be in the same place. A lot of people do good things for others because they believe in God and his teachings of being kind, generous and looking after your fellow man etc. It has given people hope when they were in despair Prove that we'd be better off. It has given them faith when they have struggled, and has given them peace when they have fear. Is that bad? Many historical people who were religious did great things to help change society. Irrationality and illogic thought doesn't come from religion, it comes from people. Even if we didn't have religion, we probably still be just as advanced, still coming up with stupid reasons to hate this or that person. It has nothing to do with religion.
If religion never existed, we'd just find other reasons to kill each other and so on.
Religion isn't to blame, people are.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 19, 2013, 10:31:04 PMIf religion never existed, we'd just find other reasons to kill each other and so on.
Nevertheless, it would be one less catalyst.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 19, 2013, 10:31:04 PMReligion isn't to blame, people are.
If your religion tells you to do something harmful and you're willing to do it for your religion, religion is to blame.
Unless you're proposing religions spontaneously pop into existence, people are still the problem for making them.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 20, 2013, 12:40:22 AMUnless you're proposing religions spontaneously pop into existence, people are still the problem for making them.
It's like how guns don't kill; it's people with guns who kill. Take away the guns, people will still kill, but not as many.
Unless you're, oh, I don't know...creative.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 20, 2013, 01:51:12 AM
Unless you're, oh, I don't know...creative.
Most likely they aren't.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 19, 2013, 06:09:13 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 19, 2013, 04:56:35 AM
All that's missing is
http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/youre-not-the-boss-of-me.png
and
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UnhiA_6q9MY/T4M0WupVcrI/AAAAAAAABMo/pAyZkCY59vU/s320/cartman-i-do-what-i-want.jpg
Yes. Those are entirely the same thing. Refusing to tolerate indoctrination, threats, active degradation of education, ritualized intolerance and the brainwashing of children is just like spoilt child acting out.
I don't mind you being a Troll, but do try and be funny as well :P Step up your game or stop playing.
Ah, so only the rabid atheists so desperately trying to shout to the world how much of anti-conformist they are, are only allowed to post childlish little tanty pictures.
Glad we got that sorted.
QuotePeople forget that we are in a war against irrationality and illogic.
:laugh:
No, we're not. You're in a war with not being a braindead oxygen thief.
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2013, 01:58:04 AM
Ah, so only the rabid atheists so desperately trying to shout to the world how much of anti-conformist they are, are only allowed to post childlish little tanty pictures.
Glad we got that sorted.
You compared this
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1011511_537887782952378_673400657_n.jpg)
To this
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-UnhiA_6q9MY%2FT4M0WupVcrI%2FAAAAAAAABMo%2FpAyZkCY59vU%2Fs320%2Fcartman-i-do-what-i-want.jpg&hash=786d2f5243f702fa6257958025a710fc4c490a55)
Your looking for chances to snipe at Atheists, I get that, and your welcome to, but your choice of snipe made you look like a morally bankrupt child. Either you chose poorly, or you are a morally bankrupt child. If you can't understand why this was a poor choice, then your trying too hard and not thinking.
Predictably blind to the obvious petulant similarities.
Maybe you'll grow out of this juvenile rage against religion and come to realise it doesn't actually matter in the long run.
Or at least grow up enough to correctly use the term "morally bankrupt" in a sentence.
I don't look for chances to snipe at atheists. I completely get their point of view and respect their lack of belief.
Angry attention whores with a misplaced sense of superiority however....
Okay, can anyone else actually see how this is a poor comparison? Because the idea of refusing to tolerate the things mentioned in the first picture being 'a child acting entitled' just blow my brain :/ I have no idea how anyone could make the comparison.
Of course you don't. You have to maintain the rage. And no doubt others will come along and join your congo line of victimhood and outrage at the war being waged on you by religion.
Oh ffs, if all you have to contribute is the same poetic tripe that Christian radio hosts love to pedal then please get lost :/ Your not actually addressing or responding to anything other members have posted, your just looking for excuses to spout nonesense.
Being unhappy with Religious influence is totally childish and hate driven. It's so not legit at all. Atheists are all just grumpy men who want an excuse to rant. Doy.
Now go away.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.giantbomb.com%2Fuploads%2Foriginal%2F2%2F23680%2F1884407-y_u_mad.jpg&hash=806e2fddd020d50cf60927f9d7fc8aa7fb604906)
I've already said I don't have issues with atheists.
Just the smug arseholes who talk down to people who don't join them in their circle jerk of fury.
But it's easier to see the world in black and white eh?
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2013, 03:53:15 AM
I've already said I don't have issues with atheists.
Just the smug arseholes who talk down to people who don't join them in their circle jerk of fury.
Yes, and I've repeatedly asked you to please justify how you find the picture to be 'smug, assholian, and speaking down to others'.
Tell us how refusing to tolerate being called evil and hellbound is smug.
Back up what you say or shut up.
I think Sabby's already stated he respects your right to religious beliefs, just not forcing them onto others, which is how the stuff spreads in the first place, and usually under questionable methods.
Exactly. The picture I posted is pretty much impossible to misinterpret, so claiming that it's smug and speaks down to people is ridiculous.
QuoteYes, and I've repeatedly asked you to please justify how you find the picture to be 'smug, assholian, and speaking down to others'.
It's nothing to do with picture.
QuoteTell us how refusing to tolerate being called evil and hellbound is smug.
Why do you even care if some fundy bible basher calls you 'evil' and 'hellbound'? It's not like you believe in hell anyway. Why is the opinion of a nutjob that important to you?
QuoteI think Sabby's already stated he respects your right to religious beliefs, just not forcing them onto others, which is how the stuff spreads in the first place, and usually under questionable methods.
Everyone that follows a religion is automatically tarred with "ignorant" "brainwashed" "bigot" "sexist" "tyrant" brush. That's some respect right there. :laugh:
But again - a black and white world makes everything nice and simple.
It is about the picture. You made it about the picture. I asked you to clarify your thoughts on the picture, and now your like 'lol, I don't care about the picture'.
Have some intellectual honesty and actually stand by what you say, don't try to sneak it out the back door when your called out on it.
It's nothing to do with the picture. More to do with the person posting it.
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2013, 03:53:15 AM
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/2/23680/1884407-y_u_mad.jpg
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi258.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh253%2Fjimifunguzz%2FPicard-facepalm-animated.gif&hash=c3fcd83f3a3b8aa92f6089eebc009e0f2a71c57f)
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2013, 04:09:42 AM
It's nothing to do with the picture. More to do with the person posting it.
Stop backpedalling. You compared the picture to another picture. Explain why.
Again?
It sounds like a child having a tantrum, and by extension so does the person who champions it.
That's your reason?
Then your a fool. You criticize others for being blinded by rage, yet you interpret a simple and clear message so poorly yourself.
"I can't be okay with the brainwashing of children"
"Lol, stop having a tantrum"
Blows my mind.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 20, 2013, 04:16:00 AM
That's your reason?
Then your a fool. You criticize others for being blinded by rage, yet you interpret a simple and clear message so poorly yourself.
:laugh:
Appreciate you proving my point.
Your not even really talking to anyone right now, as I can't find any connection between the things you respond to and the things you say.
Claim victory if you want. I'm done with you.
QuoteYour not even really talking to anyone right now, as I can't find any connection between the things you respond to and the things you say.
That's okay. When you cherry pick the bits you want to respond to and ignore the bits you don't, that's bound to happen.
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2013, 04:06:31 AMEveryone that follows a religion is automatically tarred with "ignorant" "brainwashed" "bigot" "sexist" "tyrant" brush. That's some respect right there. :laugh:
Respecting the right to have those beliefs isn't the same as respecting those beliefs outright. If you want to believe the world is 6,000 years olds that's fine, but if you want that shit taught in schools... and when they don't get their way they still don't want real science taught. So the kids are being screwed either way with faulty information or no info.
How widespread is that really though? Outside of the south of the US I mean?
I don't think state schools need to teach religious instruction - if you want your kids to learn that, send them to a religious school. There generally isn't much of a shortage.
But none of that really pertains to the generalisation I pointed out.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 20, 2013, 12:28:06 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 19, 2013, 10:31:04 PMIf religion never existed, we'd just find other reasons to kill each other and so on.
Nevertheless, it would be one less catalyst.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 19, 2013, 10:31:04 PMReligion isn't to blame, people are.
If your religion tells you to do something harmful and you're willing to do it for your religion, religion is to blame.
No, people are still the problem. Just because something is written down doesn't mean you have to do it. People still have free will. Religion just makes it easy.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 20, 2013, 11:43:28 AM
People still have free will.
That's a whole other can of worms, philosophically :laugh:
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 20, 2013, 11:43:28 AMNo, people are still the problem. Just because something is written down doesn't mean you have to do it. People still have free will. Religion just makes it easy.
I've already agreed that religion is as dangerous as a gun or any other thing used by man.
It's still dependent upon how it's used and that is up to the person; the human being.
I've heard this argument applied to guns, and I'm not sure it works. You can use a knife to cook dinner or to kill someone. The killing is misuse of the knife. Using a gun to kill isn't misuse, it's the intended use. The gun was made in order to kill. You can certainly have one as a novelty, but it doesn't change what it was designed for.
Yes, people have the free will to not follow Religion, just like they have the free will to not use a gun, but that choice to not use the gun doesn't stop it from being a weapon made to kill. Choosing not to partake in Religion doesn't stop it from being the tool it is.
You don't have to use a gun to shoot another human being.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 20, 2013, 01:39:04 PMIt's still dependent upon how it's used and that is up to the person; the human being.
Already been acknowledged.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 20, 2013, 02:22:58 PM
I've heard this argument applied to guns, and I'm not sure it works. You can use a knife to cook dinner or to kill someone. The killing is misuse of the knife. Using a gun to kill isn't misuse, it's the intended use. The gun was made in order to kill. You can certainly have one as a novelty, but it doesn't change what it was designed for.
Yes, people have the free will to not follow Religion, just like they have the free will to not use a gun, but that choice to not use the gun doesn't stop it from being a weapon made to kill. Choosing not to partake in Religion doesn't stop it from being the tool it is.
Take into account how many religions were created for the purpose of political and other forms of materialistic gain. I'm not talking about small religions like the ones that sprouted in the 19th Century, but even the biggies.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 20, 2013, 02:33:52 PM
You don't have to use a gun to shoot another human being.
No, but they are pretty efficient.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 20, 2013, 04:19:14 AM
Your not even really talking to anyone right now, as I can't find any connection between the things you respond to and the things you say.
Claim victory if you want. I'm done with you.
Your posts are very disrespectful to those with different views than you. Believe what you want, no one really cares, but choosing to use hateful language about others only makes you look bad.
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on Sep 21, 2013, 06:49:19 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 20, 2013, 04:19:14 AM
Your not even really talking to anyone right now, as I can't find any connection between the things you respond to and the things you say.
Claim victory if you want. I'm done with you.
Your posts are very disrespectful to those with different views than you. Believe what you want, no one really cares, but choosing to use hateful language about others only makes you look bad.
Not trying to stir things up, but could you link us to a post where he had used hateful language?
Of course you wouldn't want to stir things up :D
A little aggressive I think:
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 20, 2013, 04:16:00 AM
That's your reason?
Then your a fool. You criticize others for being blinded by rage, yet you interpret a simple and clear message so poorly yourself.
"I can't be okay with the brainwashing of children"
"Lol, stop having a tantrum"
Blows my mind.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 20, 2013, 03:40:32 AM
:)Oh ffs, if all you have to contribute is the same poetic tripe that Christian radio hosts love to pedal then please get lost :/ Your not actually addressing or responding to anything other members have posted, your just looking for excuses to spout nonesense.
Being unhappy with Religious influence is totally childish and hate driven. It's so not legit at all. Atheists are all just grumpy men who want an excuse to rant. Doy.
Now go away.
Hard to do on the iPad, but generally this type of aggression Is uncalled for :-\
Just getting an idea of what you thought was "hateful".
Frustration? Yes. Hateful? No.
Arrogant? Yes.
QuoteBeware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.
Please explain to me how refusing to tolerate brainwashing and ignorance is arrogant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos#ws)
Can't we all just be friends? D:
Quote from: whiterabbit on Sep 22, 2013, 01:05:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos#ws)
Didn't actually know this guy before, but he already has a new fan. A view I can really respect.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 22, 2013, 05:02:49 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Sep 22, 2013, 01:05:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos#ws)
Didn't actually know this guy before, but he already has a new fan. A view I can really respect.
I've been a fan of Neil's for many years. But, he is more of an activist than he admits.
I understand why he'd like to distance himself from the baggage, but his reasoning here is kind of strange... he doesn't believe in a deity, so he's an Atheist. He's open to one, so he's an Agnostic Atheist.
I don't wanna be associated with Atheism Plus, but I don't distance myself from Atheism and Social Justice because of that.
Notice how he frowns on individuals using atheism like a vuvuzela to blast it in the faces of people who aren't atheist. Not saying there aren't individuals in religion in the world who do this, but in the current of events of this thread it has just been individual atheists at it.
He don't care if someone is atheist or not atheist, he just wants to live and let live because he cares a lot more about being a scientist. I like that. Why waste energy on this stuff when we can be doing so many other things, like going to Subway and talking about how beautiful the sunny weather is and about Grand Theft Auto V, who the hell wants to talk about "there is a God" or "there isn't a God"?
That guy has just inspired me to gtfo of this thread and go outside... as soon as the truck returns, and I should totally get a Subway sandwich.
It matters because he's saying he is not an Atheist. This is not the same thing as living and letting live and putting a higher value on his role as a scientist. Pointing out that he is in fact an Atheist is not blasting him in the face with an agenda not his own.
I was actually referring to you blasting a vuvuzela at us in this threads history.
I took issue with SM's incredibly offensive Trolling and used bad words. Please get over it.
Wait... so when you challenge religion's stance, it's all righteous and noble. But when we challenge the stance of you yourself... it's dismissed as trolling?
Wow.
I'm done, because I can see where this is going and am not interested.
I really have no idea how you and several others have taken the incident with the pictures and perceived it anything other then what actually happened. He compared a picture I posted with one of his own, and the comparison was very poor. I called this out, and you among others have latched onto this in the most baffling manner.
If you have an objection, try and make it one that doesn't make you look like a morally inept child. Don't just go 'lol, you just call everything who disagrees with you a Troll' and take off. It's childish and frankly embarrassing.
Get your account straight man before you accuse someone of something please.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 22, 2013, 05:29:16 PM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 22, 2013, 05:02:49 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Sep 22, 2013, 01:05:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos#ws)
Didn't actually know this guy before, but he already has a new fan. A view I can really respect.
I've been a fan of Neil's for many years. But, he is more of an activist than he admits.
I posted the video because that is how I view the subject too. How can I put this, atheism needs religion. It's similar to Elie Wiesel's thoughts on indifference.
"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of beauty is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, but indifference between life and death."
Atheism is not the opposite of religion; it is merely the reciprocal of theism. Indifference to believing or not believing is where Friedrich Nietzsche's "God is Dead" comes from. Thus for Atheism to exist there
needs to exist people who believe in god(s). So Tyson's allusion to Atheism being a club for non believes to proactively voice their beliefs is true. He takes it once step forward with his golf analogy.
I do not believe in god; however I do not consider myself an atheist. I in no way desire to be associated with atheist either. I probably am an agnostic. That's because I'm not against there being a God. This is unavoidable as I do put strong emphasis on the probability of infinity. Such as the multiverse theory. Where a god, or something in the likeness of mankind's mind, is wholly allowed to exist in some universe. However, is there one here in our reality? More importantly is the one created by mankind here? My view is no. However does an almighty being rule over another universe? According to the law of infinity, yes.
My point is atheism's very existence is dependent on religion. It's just another club as Tyson pointed out. It is in it's purest form a belief system that isn't in any meaningful way different from any religion institution.
I understood why you had posted the NdGT video; I was just calling him out on something.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 22, 2013, 05:35:16 PM
I understand why he'd like to distance himself from the baggage, but his reasoning here is kind of strange... he doesn't believe in a deity, so he's an Atheist. He's open to one, so he's an Agnostic Atheist.
I don't wanna be associated with Atheism Plus, but I don't distance myself from Atheism and Social Justice because of that.
f**k Atheism+, it's a joke. I don't want to take this thread in the wrong direction but honestly, feminism has poisoned atheism which is why Atheism+ exists. And why? Because an idiot named Rebecca Watson felt "harrassed" when a guy, in an elevator, asked her to share her thoughts and opinions over a coffee, ffs.
I'm in that awkward position where I like the idea of Atheism+, I just don't like the f**kwits running it. Even Matt Dillahunty, a man I greatly respect, has fallen in with the professional victims and misguided moral warriors :/
It's sad when the most sense being made is from someone who was personally burned by them and have made it their mission to hound them relentlessly. I still love Thunderfoot and Dillahunty, but I don't think either of them are thinking clearly.
I love Thunderf00t, I think he's a genius. I especially loved his roasts of PZ Meyers especially in light of the Shermer rape accusation.
Oh yeah, the guys fantastic when it comes to writing a script, but he tends to flounder in a real debate :/ It's a little hard to watch sometimes. I remember on Magic Sandwich Show once a caller was criticizing one of his videos and his response was a very aggressive outburst.
Is it online?
So, which church is Thunderp00t associated with? WBC, or is he a non-denom Xtian?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 23, 2013, 12:29:26 PM
Is it online?
Yes, but I'm afraid I don't know the episode. They're all on Youtube though.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 23, 2013, 01:28:21 PM
So, which church is Thunderp00t associated with? WBC, or is he a non-denom Xtian?
Never heard of this guy o.o Is he like AronRahahahaha?
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 23, 2013, 01:42:58 PM
Never heard of this guy o.o
You were just singing his praises...
Thunderfoot, you said Thunderpoot. Typo?
Thunderfoot is an Atheist who does Youtube videos about science and religion.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 23, 2013, 01:49:26 PMThunderfoot, you said Thunderpoot. Typo?
No, satire.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 23, 2013, 01:49:26 PMThunderfoot is an Atheist who does Youtube videos about science and religion.
I was wondering. He seems pretty obsessed with certain atheists that I thought he was an evangelical Xtian. I went to his blog and with his obsession with PZ Myers and feminism I thought that he was a Xtian sheep in an atheist wolf's clothing.
Hahaha, oh my xD that is rather worrying, yet sadly understandable. Yes, he and the people of Atheism+ have been at each others throats ever since TF was banned from Freethoughtblogs. It's gotten pretty ugly at points, but TF tends to usually be in the right.
He's most known for his Why Do People Laugh At Creationists? series. You'd love it :) very funny.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 23, 2013, 01:56:18 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 23, 2013, 01:49:26 PMThunderfoot, you said Thunderpoot. Typo?
No, satire.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 23, 2013, 01:49:26 PMThunderfoot is an Atheist who does Youtube videos about science and religion.
I was wondering. He seems pretty obsessed with certain atheists that I thought he was an evangelical Xtian. I went to his blog and with his obsession with PZ Myers and feminism I thought that he was a Xtian sheep in an atheist wolf's clothing.
He hasn't said anything about PZ Meyers lately on YouTube at least and his channel is pretty popular. It's the "Why Feminism is Poisoning Atheism" videos that grabbed my attention. From what I can ascertain from other related videos, PZ Meyers is a big fool.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 23, 2013, 02:58:34 PM
It's the "Why Feminism is Poisoning Atheism" videos that grabbed my attention.
Why am I not surprised? ;)
Not surprised that feminism is poisoning Atheism, or that Doomrulz would find it interesting? xD
I'm sure it's the latter in his case ;)
You a rampant masculinist, eh? xD
Atheism Plus? Sounds a little like Catholicism Wow to me...
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 24, 2013, 12:18:56 PM
You a rampant masculinist, eh? xD
LOOK AT MY PENIS, RAWRRRRRRR!!!!!!
It's a neat idea on paper, actually, just the current incarnation of it really blows.
Basically, it's Atheists organizing for social reform. Atheism only means a lack of belief in a deity, so Atheists themselves can vary wildly on social and political stances. Atheism+ is an attempt to try and give similarly minded Atheists a platform. Topics like GBLT rights, gender equality, marriage equality, corruption, things that affect the average person and their civil rights as human beings. They call it 'Social Justice'.
Too bad they ostracize any Atheist who doesn't agree with their policies :/ You're either 'with them, or against them'. So if you find a comment like 'the male brain is just a female brain damaged by testosterone' to be in poor taste, your standing aside and allowing bigotry and unfairness to happen, according to them.
It's ridiculous, and sadly it's the nature of the beast :/ Atheism is like a herd of cats, and stupidity is universal.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 24, 2013, 12:45:01 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 24, 2013, 12:18:56 PM
You a rampant masculinist, eh? xD
LOOK AT MY PENIS, RAWRRRRRRR!!!!!!
My PM box is open :3
Just when you thought it was safe to not believe in something. :-\
Yeah :/ I won't touch it in it's current form, but I do believe the movement itself is a good one.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 24, 2013, 07:09:45 AM
Not surprised that feminism is poisoning Atheism, or that Doomrulz would find it interesting? xD
The latter obviously.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 24, 2013, 12:45:01 PM
LOOK AT MY PENIS, RAWRRRRRRR!!!!!!
Penis!
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catherinebruns.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2FWoman-magnifying-glass.jpg&hash=4158e028dba2eefb51d7d426fdfec401249e182d)
Where?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 23, 2013, 02:58:34 PM
"Why Feminism is Poisoning Atheism"
Bollocks!
Quote from: Eva on Sep 24, 2013, 08:51:51 PM
Bollocks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKQdJR7F_I#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKQdJR7F_I#ws)
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 23, 2013, 11:43:44 AM
I love Thunderf00t, I think he's a genius. I especially loved his roasts of PZ Meyers especially in light of the Shermer rape accusation.
Oh my... I just now found out about this. That's just... I'm speechless.
OK, so this is essentially a " Why 'Feminism' is Poisoning 'Atheism' " rant, not to be confused with an "Why Feminism is Poisoning Atheism" argument.
...
I'm still calling bollocks!, not to be confused with 'bollocks!'.
I'm confused.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 24, 2013, 10:02:58 PM
I'm confused.
I'm not. Go back a few pages on the "Things I don't get" thread and you might feel less confused.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100237766/hes-back-benedict-xvi-speaks-out-on-sex-abuse-and-calls-richard-dawkins-science-fiction/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100237766/hes-back-benedict-xvi-speaks-out-on-sex-abuse-and-calls-richard-dawkins-science-fiction/)
Quote from: Benedict in response to covering up child abuseI have never tried to hide these things. That the power of evil penetrate to such an extent in the inner world of faith is for us a suffering which, on the one hand, we have to endure, while, on the other, we must at the same time, do everything possible to ensure that such cases do not repeated.
You have to remember the great figures and even that faith has produced – by Benedict of Nursia and his sister Scholastica, Francis and Clare of Assisi, Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross, the great saints of charity as Vincent de Paul and Camillo de Lellis to Mother Teresa of Calcutta and the great and noble figures of the nineteenth century Turin. It is also true today that faith leads many people to selfless love, in service to others, sincerity and justice.
So, child rape is 'just something they will always struggle with', and that we should instead be thinking about the pillars of morality that Christianity has created, like Mother Teresa?
Let's pretend that horrible old crone was anything other then a deluded monster. Could you even use a positive figure to justify such a disgusting endorsement? Derp, we know our guys are sick freaks, but humanity is inherently evil, so we can't be held responsible for our actions, or our repeated covering of said actions.
You f**king scumbag c**t Benedict. Way to dodge personal responsibility. There are no English words strong enough to describe how I feel about this societal tumor right now.
I think you've misinterpreted what he said.
Oh, I am dying to hear someone attempt to defend this. Please, go ahead. Explain how he did not just dodge responsibility and blame it all on sin.
NO, EDIT. You explain to me how to 'properly interpret' this.
"That the power of evil (child abuse) penetrate to such an extent in the inner world of faith is for us a suffering which, on the one hand, we have to endure, while, on the other, we must at the same time, do everything possible to ensure that such cases do not repeated."
Oh no, the evil.
I'm not entirely sure where you're even getting this notion from.
He condoned the abuse, said it was a terrible thing and that the Church has (and will continue to) suffer the effects such abuse has had, and that they are doing
Quoteeverything possible to ensure that such cases do not repeated.
He calls the abuse a sin, which it is, but he doesn't go "Oh, it's human nature to sin, therefore I wipe my hands of the mess" and walk away with his hands in the air like he'd laid down a vicious rhyme in a rap battle (at least not in his quotes in this article). His listing of past icons in the Church seemed, to me, to not be an excuse, but a statement to the effect of "Here's some people to model yourself after", or some such.
So, instead of actually admitting they f**ked up and that the problem exists, they just go 'that's unfortunate, and we're sorry'. I'm sorry, apologizing means nothing when you not only fail to address the problem but act like it's an ordeal for you.
You are not the one suffering an unfortunate event Benedict, and how f**king dare you act like it.
It's what the Vatican does best, dodges responsibility and claims moral superiority.
It's been confirmed again and again, and Benedict has confirmed it here once again...
He said there's efforts to fix it. What else can he do, as he's not the Pope any longer? Even if he was, if efforts are already being made ("everything possible...") to stop such abuse, what can he further do besides systematically cutting off genitals and hands and putting little electrodes on priests that zap them when they have impure thoughts? I mean, I don't know what they're trying, but I think increased communication and quicker action is where they'll go.
And in terms of the moral superiority thing, well, as they claim to be closer to God, within the religion yes, they are supposed to be the beacon of morality.
Edit: Oh wow was this is poor taste... did not think that one through. Apologies to Bane, who did not deserve that kind of reply.
Obviously what's happened bothers me. Don't try to paint me as some sort of happy go lucky rape sympathizer/enthusiast in an attempt to gain some small victory in a minor discrepancy in interpretations.
I just think there's nothing more that can be said besides what Benedict has said: Abuse has happened to the extent that it's happened, they're suffering as a community because of it (i.e it's shaken them to their core, if I'm interpreting it correctly), and the Church is doing the best they can to try and fix it.
What more can he/they say? "It is now Church policy to have priests go around in big rubber balls"?
All I took issue with was his attempt to gain sympathy. That's all I commented on, so I don't know why you insist I've demanded he fix things overnight. I realize that's impossible, which is why I've said nothing of the sort. I just find his wording, especially the things I bolded in the quotes, to be beyond disgusting.
Though insinuating anything of you was out of line and I apologize. That was brutish. It's just this story in particular inspired white hot fury, even more so then Benedict usually does.
No worries. Obviously a sensitive topic (as I would imagine it would be anywhere it's discussed).
They could start by allowing priests of all denominations to marry. That might help with the sex thing.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Sep 24, 2013, 12:51:48 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 23, 2013, 02:58:34 PM
It's the "Why Feminism is Poisoning Atheism" videos that grabbed my attention.
Why am I not surprised? ;)
Feminism is poisoning alot more than the atheist revolution. Take a look at this shit. Some femi-nazi condeming the whole "friend-zoned" Bane meme...stupid b*tch!
http://ofcoursebane.tumblr.com/post/35895799215/how-did-you-feel-about-bane-getting-friendzoned-by (http://ofcoursebane.tumblr.com/post/35895799215/how-did-you-feel-about-bane-getting-friendzoned-by)
Feminism should be just a subset of equality. That's not what the modern Feminist movement is about. The best way to describe it without expletives would be 'Feminine Supremacism'.
It has nothing to do with focusing on a specific issue of equal rights, it's the old fashioned 'all men are pigs, we are women, hear us roar' BS trying to legitimize itself as a long overdo uprising over a silent and unfair status quo.
That's not to say that women don't face real issues of inequality today. It's the 21st century and we still don't treat men and women equally in the work place in some areas, for example. But here, we have someone saying "He kept filling my wine glass, so I concluded he wanted to rape me, and no one will take me seriously since I didn't call the police and just blogged about it. PATRIARCHY!!!"
Hey guys, just a reminder: this thread is about atheism, alright? Let's not risk this being hijacked into something else.
Oh no, the Atheism is being hijacked by Feminism. Again xD
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYXtdG4U.png&hash=ba4664c7c3d8f8014ed94fdcf7f098e260d44506)
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 05:22:29 AM
Quote from: RazorSlash on Sep 01, 2013, 05:14:38 AM
I don't know. I don't really pay much attention to a user's belief, and I personally think if you have an entire channel based around your beliefs you're just being asinine.
Okay, if a Youtube channel based on your beliefs is asinine, what does that make creating a world spanning, tax exempt organization based around your beliefs? If one is asinine, then the other must be more so by your logic.
This is one of my main issues, organized Religion being cultural background noise. People tend to look at it differently then they do other entities like corporations or governments, and there's no reason for this other then generations of taboo over questioning it.
You hit the nail on the head with that comment. The only difference between a cult and a religion (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc.) is the number of adherents. If the dice rolls of history panned out just a little differently, our world would be ruled by other religions and ideologies altogether. The world was not "meant" to be the way it is today. Religions take this logic and throw it out in favor of self-centered and teleological ways of thinking. Don't even get me started on the useless exercise that is the entire field of theology.
But that's just my two cents. My views don't require that everyone believe exactly as I do.
Quote from: SCEridani on Sep 25, 2013, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 01, 2013, 05:22:29 AM
Quote from: RazorSlash on Sep 01, 2013, 05:14:38 AM
I don't know. I don't really pay much attention to a user's belief, and I personally think if you have an entire channel based around your beliefs you're just being asinine.
Okay, if a Youtube channel based on your beliefs is asinine, what does that make creating a world spanning, tax exempt organization based around your beliefs? If one is asinine, then the other must be more so by your logic.
This is one of my main issues, organized Religion being cultural background noise. People tend to look at it differently then they do other entities like corporations or governments, and there's no reason for this other then generations of taboo over questioning it.
You hit the nail on the head with that comment. The only difference between a cult and a religion (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc.) is the number of adherents. If the dice rolls of history panned out just a little differently, our world would be ruled by other religions and ideologies altogether. The world was not "meant" to be the way it is today. Religions take this logic and throw it out in favor of self-centered and teleological ways of thinking. Don't even get me started on the useless exercise that is the entire field of theology.
But that's just my two cents. My views don't require that everyone believe exactly as I do.
Ya gotta take it case by case though. Cults are cults because of how they operate, not what they believe. A Religion can have cult like practices, but does that make it a cult? Then we start going into semantics. It's an interesting topic though. We like to think of Cults as isolationist communities that kidnap and coerce and block their flock out from the world then make them dependant on the community, but how is this different then telling your child that 'anyone who does not believe in Jesus is worldly, and this family is not of this world'.
It's still a method of isolation, only it's an emotional distance instead of a literal one.
Anyone have any idea on what a world devoid of religions would look like? We need to get scientists working on that shit. I could see something along the lines of a very advanced society similar to the Vulcans of Star Trek.
Religion will become harmless when living conditions, educational standards and general quality of life increases.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 25, 2013, 06:30:57 PM
Anyone have any idea on what a world devoid of religions would look like? We need to get scientists working on that shit. I could see something along the lines of a very advanced society similar to the Vulcans of Star Trek.
The Vulcans are also devoid of emotion. I'd rather not live in a world like that.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 25, 2013, 06:30:57 PMAnyone have any idea on what a world devoid of religions would look like? We need to get scientists working on that shit. I could see something along the lines of a very advanced society similar to the Vulcans of Star Trek.
Only with emotions, right?
Romulans maybe? Human emotions, Vulcan ears and you're not Klingon ugly...
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 25, 2013, 06:30:57 PM
Anyone have any idea on what a world devoid of religions would look like?
Pretty much like this one we have already?
People discovered plenty of reasons to murder each other in grand scale long before the current dominant religions became established and widespread.
What Eva said.
Plus, religion didn't come up with the atomic bomb, science did.
Quote from: Eva on Sep 25, 2013, 11:11:34 PMPeople discovered plenty of reasons to murder each other in grand scale long before the current dominant religions became established and widespread.
So why give them more reason to kill each other?
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 25, 2013, 11:27:00 PMPlus, religion didn't come up with the atomic bomb, science did.
Science was the method, but the atomic bomb wasn't made for the sake of science.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 26, 2013, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: Eva on Sep 25, 2013, 11:11:34 PMPeople discovered plenty of reasons to murder each other in grand scale long before the current dominant religions became established and widespread.
Examples?
Every reason people have now to kill one another that isn't "religion based"
Jealousy
mental illness
conflicts over land, food, and water
petty disagreements
Social differences
there's a few that have no footing in the "religion is the cause of murder and violence" argument.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Sep 26, 2013, 12:28:01 AM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 26, 2013, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: Eva on Sep 25, 2013, 11:11:34 PMPeople discovered plenty of reasons to murder each other in grand scale long before the current dominant religions became established and widespread.
Examples?
Every reason people have now to kill one another that isn't "religion based"
Jealousy
mental illness
conflicts over land, food, and water
petty disagreements
Social differences
there's a few that have no footing in the "religion is the cause of murder and violence" argument.
Since you were general, it's fair to say that a lot of those have religion to ignite them.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 25, 2013, 08:45:32 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 25, 2013, 06:30:57 PMAnyone have any idea on what a world devoid of religions would look like? We need to get scientists working on that shit. I could see something along the lines of a very advanced society similar to the Vulcans of Star Trek.
Only with emotions, right?
Certain emotions could be done away with. I liked the world of "Equilibrium" where they took those drugs to turn off emotions. I could see an advanced atheist society having some sort of way to turn off fear, sadness, and anxiety.
Being able to feel fear, sadness, anxiety, these things help make us human.
It's usually not a good idea to try start one of these conversations with Kirkland. He makes a point of trying to stand out.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 26, 2013, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 25, 2013, 11:27:00 PMPlus, religion didn't come up with the atomic bomb, science did.
Science was the method, but the atomic bomb wasn't made for the sake of science.
But my main point is, religion or no religion we still finds reasons to blast each other away into dust. But I see what I did wrong there, never mind.
As for what JokersWarPig brought up. College (Environmental and Natural Resource Sciences) taught me that the root cause of many conflicts is conflict over resources. Things like religion is just one of countless overlapping "layers".
As for what Kirkland brought up, I'll gladly keep my emotions thanks, all of them. Emotion is a part of human growth, I believe taking away emotions would stunt human growth mentally. Taking away emotions would be a form of "running away" from problems. But when individuals face problems head on, they develop and grow. Fear for example, when you take away things like fear, you take away the opportunity to face fear, and so we would be deprived.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 26, 2013, 12:48:53 AM
It's usually not a good idea to try start one of these conversations with Kirkland. He makes a point of trying to stand out.
He gon' learn today
Quote from: SiL on Sep 26, 2013, 12:48:53 AM
It's usually not a good idea to try start one of these conversations with Kirkland. He makes a point of trying to stand out.
He needs to stand out in the hall.
;D
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 26, 2013, 12:52:31 AM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 26, 2013, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 25, 2013, 11:27:00 PMPlus, religion didn't come up with the atomic bomb, science did.
Science was the method, but the atomic bomb wasn't made for the sake of science.
But my main point is, religion or no religion we still finds reasons to blast each other away into dust. But I see what I did wrong there, never mind.
I already addressed that in response to
Eva's comment. Using that logic, you (and
Eva) are saying that it's okay to keep piling on reasons to kill. A few years ago, I had a convo with a girl about legalizing marijuana. I mentioned that if it were legalized there would be less gang violence. She argued that there would be something else for gangs to fight over. Of course, she couldn't come up with something and talked over me when I mentioned that gangland violence dropped sharply when Prohibition had ended.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 26, 2013, 01:28:09 AM
Quote from: SiL on Sep 26, 2013, 12:48:53 AM
It's usually not a good idea to try start one of these conversations with Kirkland. He makes a point of trying to stand out.
He needs to stand out in the hall.
;D
:laugh:
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 26, 2013, 01:28:09 AM
I already addressed that in response to Eva's comment. Using that logic, you (and Eva) are saying that it's okay to keep piling on reasons to kill.
I believe me (and Eva) are not saying it's okay, but the reasons exist whether we believe it to be okay or not.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 26, 2013, 01:28:09 AM
I already addressed that in response to Eva's comment. Using that logic, you (and Eva) are saying that it's okay to keep piling on reasons to kill.
Then, using your logic, why stop at saying religion is bad because it gives people more reason to kill? We should engage in
no activity, creative or scientific, social or political, which could conceivably, at a later date, be used as justification to murder someone else.
Everybody - outta the interwebs!
Quote from: SiL on Sep 26, 2013, 05:51:06 AM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 26, 2013, 01:28:09 AM
I already addressed that in response to Eva's comment. Using that logic, you (and Eva) are saying that it's okay to keep piling on reasons to kill.
Then, using your logic, why stop at saying religion is bad because it gives people more reason to kill? We should engage in no activity, creative or scientific, social or political, which could conceivably, at a later date, be used as justification to murder someone else.
I realize this may sound cold to people who put a lot of value in emotions, but I look at this as a cost/benefit analysis.
Yes, people can use a Government as a catalyst for atrocities. But what we gain from a well utilized Government is worth minimizing the chances of it's misuse/abuse. There is far more to gain from making a good/functional Governemt then simply removing it because there are examples of bad Governments.
And yes, people use Science as a catalyst for atrocities, or more often a tool for atrocities spawned by other things. The nuke for example was created with science, but not for the sake of discovery/knowledge. It was a tool utilized for war. White Supremacists like to use Eugenics to prove that the Caucasian race is somehow superior, or to propose methods of genetic purity control. Yet what we gain from the scientific method and it's proper applications is literally the rise of humanity out of the muck of beasthood.
What does organized, and even personal Religion do? What is the benefit that justifies the ritualistic stifling of critical thinking? Name for me a single beneficial thing that can only be provided by Religion?
Name one. I've yet to receive a satisfactory answer to this.
I'd suggest asking her but she's dead, unfortunately. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa)
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 26, 2013, 11:04:09 AM
I realize this may sound cold to people who put a lot of value in emotions, but I look at this as a cost/benefit analysis.
Cool.
"It can be used for bad" and "it doesn't provide us with something literally nothing else can" are still vapid excuses.
Quote from: SM on Sep 26, 2013, 06:21:11 AM
Everybody - outta the interwebs!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W_szJ6M-kM#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W_szJ6M-kM#ws)
Quote from: SiL on Sep 26, 2013, 11:43:30 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 26, 2013, 11:04:09 AM
I realize this may sound cold to people who put a lot of value in emotions, but I look at this as a cost/benefit analysis.
Cool.
"It can be used for bad" and "it doesn't provide us with something literally nothing else can" are still vapid excuses.
Really? Asking what a damaging system provides is a vapid excuse?
Government can damage society, yet we maintain it because of it's benefits. A Government that provides no benefit to the people it Governs is something you would take issue with, I'd assume?
If so, why is Religion special? Why would you evaluate it differently?
Don't dodge the question as 'vapid', either answer it or explain why you think it's vapid.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 26, 2013, 03:02:29 AMI believe me (and Eva) are not saying it's okay, but the reasons exist whether we believe it to be okay or not.
Then there's no point in mentioning it.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 26, 2013, 05:51:06 AMThen, using your logic, why stop at saying religion is bad because it gives people more reason to kill? We should engage in no activity, creative or scientific, social or political, which could conceivably, at a later date, be used as justification to murder someone else.
Uh, huh. Yeah...
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 26, 2013, 11:20:27 AM
I'd suggest asking her but she's dead, unfortunately. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa)
Gone, but not forgotten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa#Criticism).
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Sep 26, 2013, 03:02:29 AM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 26, 2013, 01:28:09 AM
I already addressed that in response to Eva's comment. Using that logic, you (and Eva) are saying that it's okay to keep piling on reasons to kill.
I believe me (and Eva) are not saying it's okay, but the reasons exist whether we believe it to be okay or not.
^^^^
This.
Maledoro, the point is that evil does not need nor require religion to prosper. Evil is the absence of empathy. This very human trait has been a part of us since the dawn of civilization and if anyone questions whether it is still an integral part of our existence, even in our modern and scientifically enlightened world, I'd just refer you to pick up a history book describing the 20th century.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 26, 2013, 12:33:11 AM
Certain emotions could be done away with. I liked the world of "Equilibrium" where they took those drugs to turn off emotions. I could see an advanced atheist society having some sort of way to turn off fear, sadness, and anxiety.
I'll just leave this quote with you from the grandfather of modern science himself:
Quote"The most important endeavor is the striving for morality in our actions. Our inner balance and even our very existence depend on it. Only morality in our actions can give beauty and dignity for life"
- Albert Einstein
Einstein essentially acknowledges that for humanity to improve upon itself, it needs to have an authentic moral choice between good and evil. That choice is eternal for us as a species. It will always be open to us. That 'perfect Star Trek world' you describe where people no longer need to make that choice for themselves, because scientific progress somehow have made that choice irrelevant, will never happen. It's a fantasy and when giving it some thought, imo a rather disturbing one.
Quote from: Eva on Sep 26, 2013, 12:55:43 PMMaledoro, the point is that evil does not need nor require religion to prosper. Evil is the absence of empathy. This very human trait has been a part of us since the dawn of civilization and if anyone questions whether it is still an integral part of our existence, even in our modern and scientifically enlightened world, I'd just refer you to pick up a history book describing the 20th century.
I'm well aware of that, but again, it's like when people scream about having their guns taken away (a sidebar: there never was a plot to do so), they say that there will be other ways to kill. Sure, but guns are more efficient than a knife or hammer. Same with religion. One could argue that someone twisted scripture to justify their warped ideas, but, nevertheless, there is a lot of instruction to do bad things in the Bible, Koran, and other "holy" books.
Quote from: Deathbearer on Sep 26, 2013, 12:45:07 AM
Being able to feel fear, sadness, anxiety, these things help make us human.
It can be argued that those emotions bring out the worst of us. Fear led the Bush administration to go to war with Iraq did it not. Fear and anxiety of a WMD attack, along with the oil and strategic placement in that region.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 26, 2013, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: Deathbearer on Sep 26, 2013, 12:45:07 AM
Being able to feel fear, sadness, anxiety, these things help make us human.
It can be argued that those emotions bring out the worst of us. Fear led the Bush administration to go to war with Iraq did it not. Fear and anxiety of a WMD attack, along with the oil and strategic placement in that region.
I have Autism, so I have a lot of trouble understanding other peoples emotions. I can feel them, most of the time, but I often see them as disruptive and wish people could just turn them off when having a conversation that isn't specifically regarding how they feel.
Yes, I realize how hypercritical this sounds, considering how my anger can disrupt my logic at times, but I'm only describing how my brain works. I would actually really love the ability to just turn off my emotions at will.
Understanding how I view the world, for better and for worse, even I don't want an emotionless society. The very concept frightens me, much like the idea of Heaven. Yes, I'd love for individuals to have more emotional control, but ripping them out all together? No. Never.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 26, 2013, 01:37:47 PMI have Autism
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F8tracks.imgix.net%2Fi%2F000%2F019%2F236%2Fc%2FASSBURGER-1042.jpg%3Ffm%3Djpg%26amp%3Bq%3D65%26amp%3Bfit%3Dmax&hash=79bf36a497a3095be12e756f61b2e4d612f984b6)
Hahaha, I've only found out about the whole 'Ass Burgers' thing recently xD it's not pronounced that way here. It's Ah-sper-gers. Emphasis on the 'sper'.
I think the "s" is supposed to sound like a "z", as it's a German name.
Quote from: Eva on Sep 26, 2013, 12:55:43 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 26, 2013, 12:33:11 AM
Certain emotions could be done away with. I liked the world of "Equilibrium" where they took those drugs to turn off emotions. I could see an advanced atheist society having some sort of way to turn off fear, sadness, and anxiety.
I'll just leave this quote with you from the grandfather of modern science himself:
Quote"The most important endeavor is the striving for morality in our actions. Our inner balance and even our very existence depend on it. Only morality in our actions can give beauty and dignity for life"
- Albert Einstein
Einstein essentially acknowledges that for humanity to improve upon itself, it needs to have an authentic moral choice between good and evil. That choice is eternal for us as a species. It will always be open to us. That 'perfect Star Trek world' you describe where people no longer need to make that choice for themselves, because scientific progress somehow have made that choice irrelevant, will never happen. It's a fantasy and when giving it some thought, imo a rather disturbing one.
I'd just like to add, that the 5th of the "7 Dangers to Human Virtue" (by Mahatma Gandhi) is "Science without humanity (kindness, compassion, sympathy)".
Science is a tool, just like a spade or fire. The only thing that separates them is that science has much broader and more profound applications. Of course science in the hands of the heartless is a bad thing. I wouldn't trust a lobotomy patient with gas and matches.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 26, 2013, 01:58:29 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 26, 2013, 01:37:47 PMI have Autism
http://8tracks.imgix.net/i/000/019/236/c/ASSBURGER-1042.jpg?fm=jpg&q=65&fit=max
Hamburgers sandwiched with chicken drumsticks? Yuck.
;)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 26, 2013, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: Deathbearer on Sep 26, 2013, 12:45:07 AM
Being able to feel fear, sadness, anxiety, these things help make us human.
It can be argued that those emotions bring out the worst of us. Fear led the Bush administration to go to war with Iraq did it not. Fear and anxiety of a WMD attack, along with the oil and strategic placement in that region.
I always attributed the Iraq War as being W's way of trying to make his daddy proud. Also I'd sure love to see some of this oil, ya know since gas is 3.50 a gallon.
But that's neither here nor there. Point is, I don't see why you'd think it's a good idea to make someone less human just to meet your ideals of what you think society should be, because from what I'm seeing not a lot of people here agree with you.
Quote from: Deathbearer on Sep 26, 2013, 03:58:29 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 26, 2013, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: Deathbearer on Sep 26, 2013, 12:45:07 AM
Being able to feel fear, sadness, anxiety, these things help make us human.
It can be argued that those emotions bring out the worst of us. Fear led the Bush administration to go to war with Iraq did it not. Fear and anxiety of a WMD attack, along with the oil and strategic placement in that region.
I always attributed the Iraq War as being W's way of trying to make his daddy proud. Also I'd sure love to see some of this oil, ya know since gas is 3.50 a gallon.
But that's neither here nor there. Point is, I don't see why you'd think it's a good idea to make someone less human just to meet your ideals of what you think society should be, because from what I'm seeing not a lot of people here agree with you.
Well don't you agree that society could benefit from having less mopey and dopey people running around? Fear and sadness are negative emotions. Negative things are typically bad. Less bad and negative things are always a good thing. I think we can all agree to that.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 26, 2013, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: Deathbearer on Sep 26, 2013, 03:58:29 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 26, 2013, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: Deathbearer on Sep 26, 2013, 12:45:07 AM
Being able to feel fear, sadness, anxiety, these things help make us human.
It can be argued that those emotions bring out the worst of us. Fear led the Bush administration to go to war with Iraq did it not. Fear and anxiety of a WMD attack, along with the oil and strategic placement in that region.
I always attributed the Iraq War as being W's way of trying to make his daddy proud. Also I'd sure love to see some of this oil, ya know since gas is 3.50 a gallon.
But that's neither here nor there. Point is, I don't see why you'd think it's a good idea to make someone less human just to meet your ideals of what you think society should be, because from what I'm seeing not a lot of people here agree with you.
Well don't you agree that society could benefit from having less mopey and dopey people running around? Fear and sadness are negative emotions. Negative things are typically bad. Less bad and negative things are always a good thing. I think we can all agree to that.
Of course, but what is a negative emotion, or a bad emotion? Is mourning the loss of a family member bad? Is there a point where it can become problematic? If so, at what point?
It's a discussion of semantics, really, but I do agree that emotions can cloud judgement. They can also fuel wonderful feats of discovery and creation. You can't skimp on one and expect to keep the other around. All you can really do is create a society of happy, productive, and stable humans who are better at handling their emotions in healthy and productive ways.
And just like the decline of Religion, this will happen if we increase education, health and living conditions.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 26, 2013, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: Deathbearer on Sep 26, 2013, 03:58:29 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 26, 2013, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: Deathbearer on Sep 26, 2013, 12:45:07 AM
Being able to feel fear, sadness, anxiety, these things help make us human.
It can be argued that those emotions bring out the worst of us. Fear led the Bush administration to go to war with Iraq did it not. Fear and anxiety of a WMD attack, along with the oil and strategic placement in that region.
I always attributed the Iraq War as being W's way of trying to make his daddy proud. Also I'd sure love to see some of this oil, ya know since gas is 3.50 a gallon.
But that's neither here nor there. Point is, I don't see why you'd think it's a good idea to make someone less human just to meet your ideals of what you think society should be, because from what I'm seeing not a lot of people here agree with you.
Well don't you agree that society could benefit from having less mopey and dopey people running around?
So you're leaving then!?!?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F__u8uLjEPpRU%2FS9mFKHED7mI%2FAAAAAAAAAE8%2FqEJBhIOcS74%2Fs1600%2FSnapshot%2B2.jpg&hash=06334431a4980258d0c8e94b89c998edee5bc5fa)
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 26, 2013, 12:06:26 PM
Really? Asking what a damaging system provides is a vapid excuse?
Not at all. But you asked what it can provide that
nothing else can. A thing's worth shouldn't come down to whether or not it can provide something you can't get elsewhere.
Hmmm, I seem to have misspoke then.
I don't dismiss Religion because it provides nothing that can't be gained elsewhere, I dismiss it because it's damage far outweighs it's benefits, the latter being nearly non-existent. Whenever someone tries to explain to me why Religion is good, they end up describing things like 'a sense of community', 'tradition' and 'hope', all things that we get from much better sources already.
Is there something unique, anything?
A cure for nihilism.
Which I've been wallowing away in for years. :'(
Looking at the Wiki page of Existentialism, I'd rather that not be cured.
Well, alas, I appear to have confused my terms.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hollywood-elsewhere.com%2Fimages%2Fcolumn%2F8108%2Fsimplejack.jpg&hash=7afa26c6eda24eb78219c37331232bc589ba060a)
It is Nihilism I meant to say.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 26, 2013, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: Deathbearer on Sep 26, 2013, 03:58:29 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 26, 2013, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: Deathbearer on Sep 26, 2013, 12:45:07 AM
Being able to feel fear, sadness, anxiety, these things help make us human.
It can be argued that those emotions bring out the worst of us. Fear led the Bush administration to go to war with Iraq did it not. Fear and anxiety of a WMD attack, along with the oil and strategic placement in that region.
I always attributed the Iraq War as being W's way of trying to make his daddy proud. Also I'd sure love to see some of this oil, ya know since gas is 3.50 a gallon.
But that's neither here nor there. Point is, I don't see why you'd think it's a good idea to make someone less human just to meet your ideals of what you think society should be, because from what I'm seeing not a lot of people here agree with you.
Well don't you agree that society could benefit from having less mopey and dopey people running around? Fear and sadness are negative emotions. Negative things are typically bad. Less bad and negative things are always a good thing. I think we can all agree to that.
But negative feeling builds us as an individual on how we react to it and in some cases overcome it. If there was no fear we would walk into radioactive areas without wear hazard suits without fearing how it would affect us. Without sadness we would be cold and heart less. "Oh we just broke up. K thanks." "My best friend was killed in a road accident. Nice knowing him." Without fear we would do
a lot more stupid things without thinking them through and without sadness we'd
just shrug off those that we cared about and lost. Getting rid of emotions don't
improve you they just hinder you from ever feeling fully human.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 27, 2013, 01:55:26 AM
Well, alas, I appear to have confused my terms.
http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/images/column/8108/simplejack.jpg
It is Nihilism I meant to say.
I'd rather be religious I think than be nihilistic. Believing in nothing almost sounds like you're giving up on life.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 27, 2013, 11:12:09 AMI'd rather be religious I think than be nihilistic. Believing in nothing almost sounds like you're giving up on life.
I'd rather choose the third option of not believing in nothing and not being religious.
Nihilism has always interested me. I don't find it nearly as bleak as people tend to perceive. Maybe I misunderstand, but doesn't it maintain that there is no inherent purpose or meaning in life, and that value and morals and goals and such are all created in the mind in order to add meaning to existence. That's not to say that things like morals are just wishy washy whims of the mind, and that all world views are equal, just that cells dividing is the only thing that happens in nature, and it takes a conscious mind to look back at itself and think 'why am I here?'.
In other news, MORE wonderful contributions to the world, thanks to indoctrination. Isn't God's plan majestic? (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/jehovahs-witness-teen-loses-appeal-over-lifesaving-transfusion-20130927-2uib6.html)
Nihilism sounds exhausting.
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 27, 2013, 12:27:19 PMI'd rather choose the third option of not believing in nothing and not being religious.
/doublehighfive
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Sep 28, 2013, 11:31:35 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 27, 2013, 12:27:19 PMI'd rather choose the third option of not believing in nothing and not being religious.
/doublehighfive
Ok, so yea, triple high five but if we don't believe in "nothing": nor believe in "religious connotations"... then just what the hell do we believe in?
Quote from: whiterabbit on Sep 29, 2013, 08:25:20 AM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Sep 28, 2013, 11:31:35 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 27, 2013, 12:27:19 PMI'd rather choose the third option of not believing in nothing and not being religious.
/doublehighfive
Ok, so yea, triple high five but if we don't believe in "nothing": nor believe in "religious connotations"... then just what the hell do we believe in?
That we are born? That we die? That there is a period between? That we have a measure of influence on that period? That we live among side people who similarly live and die, and whose continued happiness and quality of life are dependant on similar things that your own is? That it's in your best interest to make the time you know you have worth it, and that improving the world for yourself and others is the best way to do that?
If you'd prefer to make all that second to a fairy tale that doesn't require as much personal responsibility, by all means, get Born Again.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 29, 2013, 09:54:12 AMThat we are born? That we die? That there is a period between? That we have a measure of influence on that period? That we live among side people who similarly live and die, and whose continued happiness and quality of life are dependant on similar things that your own is? That it's in your best interest to make the time you know you have worth it, and that improving the world for yourself and others is the best way to do that?
/octuplehighfive
Feeling the entirely natural and non-divine love over here.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Sep 29, 2013, 08:25:20 AMOk, so yea, triple high five but if we don't believe in "nothing": nor believe in "religious connotations"... then just what the hell do we believe in?
As an example, here's a small list of humanist beliefs (http://www.humanistsofutah.org/1992/art2aug92.html).
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 29, 2013, 09:54:12 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Sep 29, 2013, 08:25:20 AM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Sep 28, 2013, 11:31:35 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 27, 2013, 12:27:19 PMI'd rather choose the third option of not believing in nothing and not being religious.
/doublehighfive
Ok, so yea, triple high five but if we don't believe in "nothing": nor believe in "religious connotations"... then just what the hell do we believe in?
That we are born? That we die? That there is a period between? That we have a measure of influence on that period? That we live among side people who similarly live and die, and whose continued happiness and quality of life are dependant on similar things that your own is? That it's in your best interest to make the time you know you have worth it, and that improving the world for yourself and others is the best way to do that?
This sounds almost religious!
Quote from: BANE on Sep 29, 2013, 06:01:36 PMThis sounds almost religious!
Sometimes philosophy does.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 27, 2013, 11:12:09 AM
I'd rather be religious I think than be nihilistic. Believing in nothing almost sounds like you're giving up on life.
Read some Nietzsche, he makes the distinction between weak and strong nihilists. Weak nihilists see that values mean nothing to the universe, and they despair. A strong nihilist overcomes this despair and imposes his values and morals on an uncaring and impersonal universe. It's about moral willpower, not following morals because they are forced on you.
Does that mean a strong Nihilist could, much like God, just say something and decree it as moral, regardless of what it is?
I've never agreed with the assertion that morals are that wonky or that they need a concrete point of reference. Human suffering doesn't change, nor does the group dynamics that we evolved in. People can convince themselves of anything given time, and legitimate arguments can be made to make something moral in certain context, such as going to war for good reasons.
I realize it's impossible to discuss morality in black and white. It's a highly philosophical discussion. But I don't believe that anyone can simply say X and have X be true, or that if enough people were to believe X is right and moral, that would make X right and moral. It's by no means black and white, but it's not a damn rainbow where you can choose whatever.
Quote from: Valaquen on Sep 29, 2013, 07:21:24 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 27, 2013, 11:12:09 AM
I'd rather be religious I think than be nihilistic. Believing in nothing almost sounds like you're giving up on life.
Read some Nietzsche, he makes the distinction between weak and strong nihilists. Weak nihilists see that values mean nothing to the universe, and they despair. A strong nihilist overcomes this despair and imposes his values and morals on an uncaring and impersonal universe. It's about moral willpower, not following morals because they are forced on you.
Care to make some recommendations then in terms of reading material?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F-d89XXZ5EYOw%2FUGhDe6IuGgI%2FAAAAAAAAFic%2FR4ymSFTzQg8%2F222089_415112438538051_836449899_n.jpg%3Fimgmax%3D800&hash=ac3f27fef2981ffa0f8f16e5139850f78d684c8a)
...and no, it doesn't mean saying bad things to religious people just for the hell of it. Clicky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_day).
Quote from: BANE on Sep 29, 2013, 06:01:36 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 29, 2013, 09:54:12 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Sep 29, 2013, 08:25:20 AM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Sep 28, 2013, 11:31:35 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Sep 27, 2013, 12:27:19 PMI'd rather choose the third option of not believing in nothing and not being religious.
/doublehighfive
Ok, so yea, triple high five but if we don't believe in "nothing": nor believe in "religious connotations"... then just what the hell do we believe in?
That we are born? That we die? That there is a period between? That we have a measure of influence on that period? That we live among side people who similarly live and die, and whose continued happiness and quality of life are dependant on similar things that your own is? That it's in your best interest to make the time you know you have worth it, and that improving the world for yourself and others is the best way to do that?
This sounds almost religious!
It was totally meant too. Kind of boring sitting around and thinking about nothing and I surely thought someone would have said the force. :-\
Not much longer until the dreaded winter solstice celebrations commence. Who else plans on protesting against the religionists desire to display their bullshit in our towns and cities?
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 30, 2013, 05:50:19 PM
Not not longer until the dreaded winter solstice celebrations commence. Who else plans on protesting against the religionistsdesire to display their bullshit in our towns and cities?
Word of the day.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 30, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 30, 2013, 05:50:19 PM
Not not longer until the dreaded winter solstice celebrations commence. Who else plans on protesting against the religionistsdesire to display their bullshit in our towns and cities?
Word of the day.
Do you raise skepticism of my proficiency in choice of wording?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religionist (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religionist)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 30, 2013, 05:50:19 PM
Not much longer until the dreaded winter solstice celebrations commence. Who else plans on protesting against the religionists desire to display their bullshit in our towns and cities?
Who cares.
I am just jumping in here, reading the first page it appears I should announce what I am. I am a devout devout Catholic. The next question I guess would be why do I believe in God? I got two extreme experiences that make me a person of Faith.
The first experience was a majorly bad haunting. I was a half or fake believer at the time, I had strange things going on in my house, I was blamed for most of it which just ticked me off, which was what I was more focused on than the happening themselves. We had towels just absolutely destroyed in the house similar to the degree a Wrestler would rip their shirts when they do that at WWF.
Some time after that was happening I would see this pure blacker than black thing go across the ceiling over and over again, it kinda reminded of me a mishmash lightning bolt. Some time later I had a game controller destroyed in my room, worse I almost sat down on a big pile of nails and screws that was on my bed where a sit and play games. Some of these screws still had the female connecters on them like it had been ripped out of a plastic book shelf. If I had not looked where I sat down I would have been hurt bad because I just flop down on my bed most the time.
I was still seeing this thing go across the ceiling even in daylight, worse now was it started getting on the bed with me when I would try and sleep, the bed would press down by my feet. I tried to rationalize what was happening, but one thing that made it more real was when my cat was in my room with me. She was on the bed and froze looking at the corner of my bed, her back arched and she let out a hiss, she kinda reminded me of the cat in the first Alien movie. Nothing else was in the room I could see but she was very worried.
At night this black thing started too take on a more bipedal shape. It would stand over me... I foolishly would keep a baseball bat by me in a vain effort to hit it. It had sort of a almond shaped head but I could not see its face not that I would want to or think about seeing its face because I would just bury my head and try and ignore it.
It got worse because one day I woke up with a injury, my skin had been punctured, and it was deep enough to hurt for days. To top it off some time later, I woke up and my glasses where gone. I kept them by my bed and I could not find them before I went to work. I came back home and looked for them. I found them underneath my in the center. In the way of that path, if it where to have just fallen off, was a 3 foot by 3/4th foot plastic container full of rain flys and some other equipment. Their was only a half inch to an inch gap between the lid of the container and the bottom of my bed. If it had just fallen with not assistance would have traveled in a diagonal line half a foot too a foot, then in this space of of a half inch went in a straight path, because the bed stuck out further than the container lid by a half inch to a 3rd of an inch, for 2 and a half feet maybe more.
I could not ignore or brush off the problem anymore, so we did a prayer demanding whatever it was in the name of Jesus Christ to leave me alone and it did. I turned my life around after that and have become extremely devout in my Faith. I now do support Prayers for Father Bob Baily and other Catholic paranormal specialist that fight malicious human and non human spirits.
The SECONDED reason I am a believer is because of a surprise healing. I had slept wrong and my arm was screwed up for the day, I couldn't lift anything without being in pain, my arm kinda felt it wanted to stay in a bent position. I had told a couple of my friends about it. Later that day their was this guy with a snow cap on sitting with them, they called me over, I had know Idea what was going on, and the Man took my arm and asked Jesus to heal it, the pain and bent feeling was all but gone, it felt pretty great. That guy turned out to be a roaming Priest I had never seen before.
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 30, 2013, 10:41:59 AM
But I don't believe that anyone can simply say X and have X be true, or that if enough people were to believe X is right and moral, that would make X right and moral.
Of course it does! That's what morality is!
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 30, 2013, 05:50:19 PMNot much longer until the dreaded winter solstice celebrations commence. Who else plans on protesting against the religionists desire to display their bullshit in our towns and cities?
You may be alone here.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Sep 30, 2013, 10:53:47 PMI am just jumping in here, reading the first page it appears I should announce what I am. I am a devout devout Catholic. The next question I guess would be why do I believe in God? I got two extreme experiences that make me a person of Faith.
The first experience was a majorly bad haunting. I was a half or fake believer at the time, I had strange things going on in my house, I was blamed for most of it which just ticked me off, which was what I was more focused on than the happening themselves. We had towels just absolutely destroyed in the house similar to the degree a Wrestler would rip their shirts when they do that at WWF.
Some time after that was happening I would see this pure blacker than black thing go across the ceiling over and over again, it kinda reminded of me a mishmash lightning bolt. Some time later I had a game controller destroyed in my room, worse I almost sat down on a big pile of nails and screws that was on my bed where a sit and play games. Some of these screws still had the female connecters on them like it had been ripped out of a plastic book shelf. If I had not looked where I sat down I would have been hurt bad because I just flop down on my bed most the time.
I was still seeing this thing go across the ceiling even in daylight, worse now was it started getting on the bed with me when I would try and sleep, the bed would press down by my feet. I tried to rationalize what was happening, but one thing that made it more real was when my cat was in my room with me. She was on the bed and froze looking at the corner of my bed, her back arched and she let out a hiss, she kinda reminded me of the cat in the first Alien movie. Nothing else was in the room I could see but she was very worried.
At night this black thing started too take on a more bipedal shape. It would stand over me... I foolishly would keep a baseball bat by me in a vain effort to hit it. It had sort of a almond shaped head but I could not see its face not that I would want to or think about seeing its face because I would just bury my head and try and ignore it.
It got worse because one day I woke up with a injury, my skin had been punctured, and it was deep enough to hurt for days. To top it off some time later, I woke up and my glasses where gone. I kept them by my bed and I could not find them before I went to work. I came back home and looked for them. I found them underneath my in the center. In the way of that path, if it where to have just fallen off, was a 3 foot by 3/4th foot plastic container full of rain flys and some other equipment. Their was only a half inch to an inch gap between the lid of the container and the bottom of my bed. If it had just fallen with not assistance would have traveled in a diagonal line half a foot too a foot, then in this space of of a half inch went in a straight path, because the bed stuck out further than the container lid by a half inch to a 3rd of an inch, for 2 and a half feet maybe more.
I could not ignore or brush off the problem anymore, so we did a prayer demanding whatever it was in the name of Jesus Christ to leave me alone and it did. I turned my life around after that and have become extremely devout in my Faith. I now do support Prayers for Father Bob Baily and other Catholic paranormal specialist that fight malicious human and non human spirits.
The SECONDED reason I am a believer is because of a surprise healing. I had slept wrong and my arm was screwed up for the day, I couldn't lift anything without being in pain, my arm kinda felt it wanted to stay in a bent position. I had told a couple of my friends about it. Later that day their was this guy with a snow cap on sitting with them, they called me over, I had know Idea what was going on, and the Man took my arm and asked Jesus to heal it, the pain and bent feeling was all but gone, it felt pretty great.
How do you know it was actually God or Jesus that was responsible and not some other entity acting in their name(s) or something else that you attribute to the Abrahamic god?
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Sep 30, 2013, 10:53:47 PMThat guy turned out to be a roaming Priest I had never seen before.
All of him, or just his hands?
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 30, 2013, 05:50:19 PM
Not much longer until the dreaded winter solstice celebrations commence. Who else plans on protesting against the religionists desire to display their bullshit in our towns and cities?
I support freedom of speech. 'Religionists' are free to peddle whatever nonsense they want, as long as they do so through the proper channels. They have the same rights as everyone else to have their say, the problem is that they think they are somehow entitled to more then that.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 30, 2013, 11:29:48 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Sep 30, 2013, 10:41:59 AM
But I don't believe that anyone can simply say X and have X be true, or that if enough people were to believe X is right and moral, that would make X right and moral.
Of course it does! That's what morality is!
How so? If you found an isolated community of 10,000 people, and each of these people believed that it was moral to bury anyone older then 45 up to the neck and let them die of exposure, would this be moral? Morality is not an argumentum ad populus, it's something built around the concept of human suffering and group dynamics. So, yes, there can be very differing ideas of what is moral, but there absolutely are immoral beliefs.
Once again, not black and white, but it ain't a rainbow either.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Sep 30, 2013, 10:53:47 PMI am just jumping in here, reading the first page it appears I should announce what I am. I am a devout devout Catholic. The next question I guess would be why do I believe in God? I got two extreme experiences that make me a person of Faith.
The first experience was a majorly bad haunting. I could not ignore or brush off the problem anymore, so we did a prayer demanding whatever it was in the name of Jesus Christ to leave me alone and it did.
The SECONDED reason I am a believer is because of a surprise healing. I had slept wrong and my arm was screwed up for the day, I couldn't lift anything without being in pain, my arm kinda felt it wanted to stay in a bent position. the Man took my arm and asked Jesus to heal it, the pain and bent feeling was all but gone, it felt pretty great. That guy turned out to be a roaming Priest I had never seen before.
Question. What about these events leads you to believe that Yahweh spoke the world into existence and continues to watch over the humans he condemned with the Forbidden Fruit? Is it that both mysterious events were solved by a Catholic priest specifically? The things you claim they did are by no means unique to them. Holy men of pretty much every faith claim to be able to caste out evil spirits and perform miracle healing. Are your assertions correct and all other assertions of divine intervention from other faiths incorrect?
If so, and God is the only power by which evil spirits are fought and ailments healed, then why are these wonderful services performed so sparingly? Why are they the product of 'a friend of a friends' stories? Anyone who could heal with the laying of hands, or demonstrate that a bipedal, immaterial black creature exists would be laughing all the way to the bank with James Randi's million dollar check.
QuoteHow so? If you found an isolated community of 10,000 people, and each of these people believed that it was moral to bury anyone older then 45 up to the neck and let them die of exposure, would this be moral?
For them it sure would be.
To you, no.
Opinions opinions.
So morals are a matter of opinion? It has nothing to do with human suffering and group dynamics?
Okay, would you accept that some forms of morality were constructed with poor reasoning? For instance, the 45 year old death sentence being enacted because a crop went bad on someones 46th birthday. Let's pretend this is morally sound. Would this morality be built on poor reasoning? If so, does this also make it poor morality?
EDIT:
Quote from: BANE on Oct 01, 2013, 01:03:05 AM
QuoteHow so? If you found an isolated community of 10,000 people, and each of these people believed that it was moral to bury anyone older then 45 up to the neck and let them die of exposure, would this be moral?
For them it sure would be.
To you, no.
Opinions opinions.
Now this get's me thinking... Was it wrong to not chart new courses across the ocean for fear they would fall off the Earth? No, because at the time, the best answer they had was that the world was flat. When they learned it was round, they adjusted their actions to accommodate that new information.
Let's say that this tribe learns that a mans age has no effect on the crops. 50 years later, someone buries their grandfather because they're afraid for their crops. 50 years ago, this would have been deemed moral, but because the population now has a better understanding of the world, they have deemed the action immoral.
I'd say morality is directly linked to a populations understanding of the world, and that systems of morality we deem as immoral may have been proportionate to their populations understanding at the time.
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 01, 2013, 12:48:01 AM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 30, 2013, 05:50:19 PMNot much longer until the dreaded winter solstice celebrations commence. Who else plans on protesting against the religionists desire to display their bullshit in our towns and cities?
You may be alone here.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Sep 30, 2013, 10:53:47 PMI am just jumping in here, reading the first page it appears I should announce what I am. I am a devout devout Catholic. The next question I guess would be why do I believe in God? I got two extreme experiences that make me a person of Faith.
The first experience was a majorly bad haunting. I was a half or fake believer at the time, I had strange things going on in my house, I was blamed for most of it which just ticked me off, which was what I was more focused on than the happening themselves. We had towels just absolutely destroyed in the house similar to the degree a Wrestler would rip their shirts when they do that at WWF.
Some time after that was happening I would see this pure blacker than black thing go across the ceiling over and over again, it kinda reminded of me a mishmash lightning bolt. Some time later I had a game controller destroyed in my room, worse I almost sat down on a big pile of nails and screws that was on my bed where a sit and play games. Some of these screws still had the female connecters on them like it had been ripped out of a plastic book shelf. If I had not looked where I sat down I would have been hurt bad because I just flop down on my bed most the time.
I was still seeing this thing go across the ceiling even in daylight, worse now was it started getting on the bed with me when I would try and sleep, the bed would press down by my feet. I tried to rationalize what was happening, but one thing that made it more real was when my cat was in my room with me. She was on the bed and froze looking at the corner of my bed, her back arched and she let out a hiss, she kinda reminded me of the cat in the first Alien movie. Nothing else was in the room I could see but she was very worried.
At night this black thing started too take on a more bipedal shape. It would stand over me... I foolishly would keep a baseball bat by me in a vain effort to hit it. It had sort of a almond shaped head but I could not see its face not that I would want to or think about seeing its face because I would just bury my head and try and ignore it.
It got worse because one day I woke up with a injury, my skin had been punctured, and it was deep enough to hurt for days. To top it off some time later, I woke up and my glasses where gone. I kept them by my bed and I could not find them before I went to work. I came back home and looked for them. I found them underneath my in the center. In the way of that path, if it where to have just fallen off, was a 3 foot by 3/4th foot plastic container full of rain flys and some other equipment. Their was only a half inch to an inch gap between the lid of the container and the bottom of my bed. If it had just fallen with not assistance would have traveled in a diagonal line half a foot too a foot, then in this space of of a half inch went in a straight path, because the bed stuck out further than the container lid by a half inch to a 3rd of an inch, for 2 and a half feet maybe more.
I could not ignore or brush off the problem anymore, so we did a prayer demanding whatever it was in the name of Jesus Christ to leave me alone and it did. I turned my life around after that and have become extremely devout in my Faith. I now do support Prayers for Father Bob Baily and other Catholic paranormal specialist that fight malicious human and non human spirits.
The SECONDED reason I am a believer is because of a surprise healing. I had slept wrong and my arm was screwed up for the day, I couldn't lift anything without being in pain, my arm kinda felt it wanted to stay in a bent position. I had told a couple of my friends about it. Later that day their was this guy with a snow cap on sitting with them, they called me over, I had know Idea what was going on, and the Man took my arm and asked Jesus to heal it, the pain and bent feeling was all but gone, it felt pretty great.
How do you know it was actually God or Jesus that was responsible and not some other entity acting in their name(s) or something else that you attribute to the Abrahamic god?
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Sep 30, 2013, 10:53:47 PMThat guy turned out to be a roaming Priest I had never seen before.
All of him, or just his hands?
When you call on something that is what will responded to your calls.
As for the Priest I has never seen him period until I walked up to the table. Hands, feet, face, I had never seen before, and I had never heard his voice before ether. He was pretty nice, after that day he was in my work place and always offered me jam and peanut butter gram crackers, or cream cheese and gram crackers. Like two weeks later he was gone and I never saw him again.
So if I called on Allah to cure me of an arm cramp, and a passing Sheikh touched me and my arm felt better, does this mean that Allah is real?
Many have made that very same claim. You can't both be right.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 01:10:04 AM
So morals are a matter of opinion? It has nothing to do with human suffering and group dynamics?
Okay, would you accept that some forms of morality were constructed with poor reasoning? For instance, the 45 year old death sentence being enacted because a crop went bad on someones 46th birthday. Let's pretend this is morally sound. Would this morality be built on poor reasoning? If so, does this also make it poor morality?
EDIT:
Quote from: BANE on Oct 01, 2013, 01:03:05 AM
QuoteHow so? If you found an isolated community of 10,000 people, and each of these people believed that it was moral to bury anyone older then 45 up to the neck and let them die of exposure, would this be moral?
For them it sure would be.
To you, no.
Opinions opinions.
Now this get's me thinking... Was it wrong to not chart new courses across the ocean for fear they would fall off the Earth? No, because at the time, the best answer they had was that the world was flat. When they learned it was round, they adjusted their actions to accommodate that new information.
Let's say that this tribe learns that a mans age has no effect on the crops. 50 years later, someone buries their grandfather because they're afraid for their crops. 50 years ago, this would have been deemed moral, but because the population now has a better understanding of the world, they have deemed the action immoral.
I'd say morality is directly linked to a populations understanding of the world, and that systems of morality we deem as immoral may have been proportionate to their populations understanding at the time.
Morality is, by definition, "the conformity to the rules of
right conduct". Obviously, therefore, morality changes based on what we think is "right". Which is subjective, as is obvious both in terms of the numerous political and social debates nowadays, and in the changes in laws and social paradigms throughout history. So if right and wrong are subjective, and they are the foundations of Morality, then so is morality.
That's what I meant.
Obviously hindsight makes alot of things seem immoral to us that were moral back then, but it's all just opinions.
Hmmm, interesting. On that we agree, but I still believe that a system of morality can be poorly conceived, even with a lack of knowledge.
We have to look at right or wrong from an evolutionary perspective.
What would be the purpose of a sense of right or wrong? To my understanding the only reason such a thing would develop would be out of an instinct to survive; if I wronged someone, then their retribution would threaten my survival or well being. It's fairly simple, and all that has sprouted out of it is just a way to keep ourselves intellectually busy as we wait for death. ;D
Can you conceive of a system of morality that would be poorly thought out even by the populations understanding of right and wrong? xD I'm kind of floundering with creating an example.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 12:57:08 AM
Question. What about these events leads you to believe that Yahweh spoke the world into existence and continues to watch over the humans he condemned with the Forbidden Fruit?
Calling on Jesus for help, and having it work, against that thing is one reason why I believe the overall picture of things that happened in the Old testament and everything that has and will happen in the new testament. If Jesus can help me in my time of need than he must be real, that's just how I see it. Things that have happened, paranormal or not, after the haunting strengthens my faith further.
I wouldn't say partaking of the fruit condemned us, if it had we would prob not be here but that last part is just my opinion.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 12:57:08 AM
Is it that both mysterious events were solved by a Catholic priest specifically?
Very tricky answer, yes and no. You can drive out demons with demons BUT all your doing is trading one for another. Other priests from other denominations have been successful in driving out evil entities, just call on Jesus or the Holy Trinity. That being said one must be trained to deal with the paranormal, this is something for along time till resent years the majority of Catholics priest where not trained to do.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 12:57:08 AM
The things you claim they did are by no means unique to them. Holy men of pretty much every faith claim to be able to caste out evil spirits and perform miracle healing. Are your assertions correct and all other assertions of divine intervention from other faiths incorrect?
Well after what happened to me I started reading more of the bible and attending mass. I know a lot about Baltic Slavic mythology, and a bit of others, and I find it interesting that for the most part the Holy Trinity warns against practicing anything from other religions, sure their are cases of people carring out attacks on others that practice other religions but in their holy texts I don't recall anything warning the reader not to practice other religious customs.
You have to look at this from a war time point of view. In war the enemies job is to kill/defeat their enemy, it can and will accomplish this by physical aggression, intelligence, counter intelligence, espionage, paper threats, and lies. I very well believe that people saw other entities they thought were their creator, problem is they where lied too, one scary thing about demons is they lie a lot and can pretend to be other things, like say the spirit of a little girl. Dealing with the paranormal is very dangers despite what they show on tv, Zak Baggan from Ghost Adventures has found amazing documented evidence of paranormal activity, how he is still alive is beyond me, he takes to many risks including use dark magic to conjure Ghosts and demons, that might sound good for ratings but you physical and spiritual health is at great danger.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 12:57:08 AM
If so, and God is the only power by which evil spirits are fought and ailments healed, then why are these wonderful services performed so sparingly?
Because we as a species are supposed to be helping each other. To have him just healing everyone on a whim would take away are job to prove are selfs that we are good and will help people. Unfortunately most of us do not care to help each other, this cut throat attitude towards each other needs to stop.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 12:57:08 AM
Why are they the product of 'a friend of a friends' stories? Anyone who could heal with the laying of hands, or demonstrate that a bipedal, immaterial black creature exists would be laughing all the way to the bank with James Randi's million dollar check.
I can't speak for other people, they could be telling the truth OR they could be lying.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 02:02:15 AM
So if I called on Allah to cure me of an arm cramp, and a passing Sheikh touched me and my arm felt better, does this mean that Allah is real?
Many have made that very same claim. You can't both be right.
No not everyone can be right, but to assume other things do not have power is incorrect as well, their is a good source of power and a bad source.
As for your example it really doesn't fit with what happened with me because it was the priest that called on Jesus while holding my arm, I didn't call on Jesus and then have my arm bumped into by the Priest. Also you used a Abrahamic sub religion to discredit another Abrahamic sub religion, they both pray to Iehovah. It would have been better if you picked Perun or some other false god.
QuoteCalling on Jesus for help, and having it work, against that thing is one reason why I believe the overall picture of things that happened in the Old testament and everything that has and will happen in the new testament. If Jesus can help me in my time of need than he must be real, that's just how I see it. Things that have happened, paranormal or not, after the haunting strengthens my faith further.
I wouldn't say partaking of the fruit condemned us, if it had we would prob not be here but that last part is just my opinion.
Once again, how can you be right and the one who claims they were helped by Allah be right at the same time.
QuoteVery tricky answer, yes and no. You can drive out demons with demons BUT all your doing is trading one for another. Other priests from other denominations have been successful in driving out evil entities, just call on Jesus or the Holy Trinity. That being said one must be trained to deal with the paranormal, this is something for along time till resent years the majority of Catholics priest where not trained to do.
You don't have to call on Jesus to perform these kinds of rituals. What do you say to those who cast out spirits by shaking a stick and calling on The Great Juju? Are they not the same as Catholic Exorcists? If not, what makes the Catholic Exorcists legitimate?
QuoteWell after what happened to me I started reading more of the bible and attending mass. I know a lot about Baltic Slavic mythology, and a bit of others, and I find it interesting that for the most part the Holy Trinity warns against practicing anything from other religions, sure their are cases of people carring out attacks on others that practice other religions but in their holy texts I don't recall anything warning the reader not to practice other religious customs.
It's one of the 10 Commandments... Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me.
QuoteYou have to look at this from a war time point of view.
Not if the Bible is the word of God. Why would a time of war affect the timeless words of a timeless deity, whose writings were meant to be a guiding force throughout the ages? Either it was written by man, or God has an extremely poor way of conveying himself. It would be like if I wrote my will out to my children in a pop up book, because they were 2 years old when I got around to writing it.
QuoteBecause we as a species are supposed to be helping each other. To have him just healing everyone on a whim would take away are job to prove are selfs that we are good and will help people. Unfortunately most of us do not care to help each other, this cut throat attitude towards each other needs to stop.
So why are you special? You slept on your arm and it felt bad, so God decided to make an exception for you? What of all the other people in this world who suffer greatly, some at the hands of religion. A woman was recently lashed 200 times for being raped. Why did a priest not lay his hands on her and seal her wounds to ease her suffering.
Your bloody arm cramp was more important, eh?
QuoteI can't speak for other people, they could be telling the truth OR they could be lying.
Or they could genuinely believe what they say and be wrong. Belief has no baring on truth. People believe all sorts of crap, like splashing filthy water on an infant would prepare their soul for the holy spirit, or that certain crystals emit energy that coaxes the body to heal itself. Funnily enough, if you ask these people specific questions, they panic and change the subject.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 03:01:44 AM
Once again, how can you be right and the one who claims they were helped by Allah be right at the same time.
Because we are praying to the same God. He doesn't only heal people who are quote unquote correct.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 03:01:44 AM
You don't have to call on Jesus to perform these kinds of rituals. What do you say to those who cast out spirits by shaking a stick and calling on The Great Juju? Are they not the same as Catholic Exorcists? If not, what makes the Catholic Exorcists legitimate?
Jesus teaching about casting out entities in the New testament is pretty clear on the matter, it is only to be done in his name.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 03:01:44 AM
It's one of the 10 Commandments... Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me.
I think you might have read through my posts to quickly. I was talking about non-abrahimic religions.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 03:01:44 AM
Not if the Bible is the word of God. Why would a time of war affect the timeless words of a timeless deity, whose writings were meant to be a guiding force throughout the ages? Either it was written by man, or God has an extremely poor way of conveying himself. It would be like if I wrote my will out to my children in a pop up book, because they were 2 years old when I got around to writing it.
The Bible shows that their will be conflict between good and evil until the time of judgement. We must always be prepared for war. As I was saying their are Dark entities that have power, that do lie, and would like nothing more for people to mistake them for God. This is why I brought up the different ways enemies wage war.
This is an example, I used to play 40k, I joined the Forces of disorder to help kill the IOM. I purposely made a fake Forces of Order account and feed them false information. I told them that the Dark Angels where really fighting for the forces of disorder. I told them all the players in Gibson City IL had started fighting other forces of order. I also brought up all the distrust other chapters had about Dark Angels, my work caused such an up roar and in fighting that we Forces of Disorder had at least a Week head advantage over the Forces of order. Many forums where made to flame Dark Angels and their players.
I hope this analogy helps you to understand what I am getting at.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 03:01:44 AM
So why are you special? You slept on your arm and it felt bad, so God decided to make an exception for you? What of all the other people in this world who suffer greatly, some at the hands of religion. A woman was recently lashed 200 times for being raped. Why did a priest not lay his hands on her and seal her wounds to ease her suffering.
Your bloody arm cramp was more important, eh?
Everyone will have or does have a gift or gifts they are to share, It wasn't me that was quote unquote special. The Priest obviously had that gift given to him by God. It also speaks in the Bible that Jesus would have peopled healed and that they should go out and proclaim this act as a testimony.
As for the other People of the world I still stand fast in my post. It is our job to help each other, it is our duty to share our gifts to make this world better, if we where to stop hording are money cough cough corporations, look past the quote unquote evaluated money value of the individual, or just let go of Pride, like in the case of North Korea when the USA and maybe the UN tried to help them after a disaster, they refused the help and then later took all the supplies and gave it only to their military, the world would end up much better.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 03:01:44 AM
Or they could genuinely believe what they say and be wrong. Belief has no baring on truth.
Yes but I talked about this in a different comment. Nothing is Higher than the Holy Trinity, but to assume nothing else has power is a mistake that can cost a person or persons a hefty price.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 03:01:44 AM
People believe all sorts of crap, like splashing filthy water on an infant would prepare their soul for the holy spirit, or that certain crystals emit energy that coaxes the body to heal itself. Funnily enough, if you ask these people specific questions, they panic and change the subject.
I don't know of anyone that uses filthy water to baptize children except maybe Kentucky Amish or maybe some Southern Protestant. Just a heads up though, I think you mixed Confirmation with baptism, we use blessed anointing oil to strengthen our bounds with the Father Son and Holy Spirit. As for the crystal who knows, if it works it might have been blessed or have something Dark attached to it.
QuoteThis is an example, I used to play 40k, I joined the Forces of disorder to help kill the IOM. I purposely made a fake Forces of Order account and feed them false information. I told them that the Dark Angels where really fighting for the forces of disorder. I told them all the players in Gibson City IL had started fighting other forces of order. I also brought up all the distrust other chapters had about Dark Angels, my work caused such an up roar and in fighting that we Forces of Disorder had at least a Week head advantage over the Forces of order. Many forums where made to flame Dark Angels and their players.
I hope this analogy helps you to understand what I am getting at.
Isn't trolling just the same as 'Thou shalt not bear false witness'?
QuoteBecause we are praying to the same God. He doesn't only heal people who are quote unquote correct.
What makes you say that? If you told a Muslim that him and a Catholic Priest worship the same God, I'd expect he'd have harsh words for you. And what of the many pantheons and more shamanist deities, whose followers make the same claims as you do. You can't have 'there is only the Holy Trinity' and 'There is a dysfunctional family on Mount Olympus that represent a ton of different things"
QuoteJesus teaching about casting out entities in the New testament is pretty clear on the matter, it is only to be done in his name.
So the Bible says, what of it? I lived next to an Aboriginal who believed that placing an empty glass bottle next to the door would alert you to when an evil spirit would enter the home, because the bottle would fall over. He didn't need the Holy Trinity for this practice. Many people hang bushels of Sage over their doors to ward off evil spirits. They never drew power from the Holy Trinity.
Are they all wrong and you are the only one who is right? Can you demonstrate that your belief is more plausible then theirs?
QuoteI think you might have read through my posts to quickly. I was talking about non-abrahimic religions.
Ah, apologies. Point is, the Holy Trinity you put so much stock in puts worship of other Deities as a worse crime then pedophilia. God doesn't even see fit to mention that f**king kids is wrong, but he makes it damn clear that if your not his one and only you'll f**king burn.
QuoteThe Bible shows that their will be conflict between good and evil until the time of judgement. We must always be prepared for war.
Tide comes in, tide goes out, ya can't explain that.
Seriously though, predicting war? If I order a steak, and the steak arrives, is that prophecy?
QuoteAs I was saying their are Dark entities that have power, that do lie, and would like nothing more for people to mistake them for God. This is why I brought up the different ways enemies wage war.
Where do you get this information from? How do we verify it? Because similar claims are made all over the world. How can you demonstrate that these claims are accurate?
I won't address your analogy because it's based off of the assertion you still haven't provided evidence for.
QuoteEveryone will have or does have a gift or gifts they are to share, It wasn't me that was quote unquote special.
Everyone? Where's mine? I guarantee you if I had the power to heal with touch I'd be spending my limited energy on people who actually needed it, not people who slept wrong and feel stiff.
QuoteIt also speaks in the Bible that Jesus would have peopled healed and that they should go out and proclaim this act as a testimony.
Yeah, and Irish folk tales say that small men dressed in green guard hoards of gold, and that peoples testimony says the rainbow will lead you to it.
QuoteAs for the other People of the world I still stand fast in my post. It is our job to help each other, it is our duty to share our gifts to make this world better, if we where to stop hording are money cough cough corporations, look past the quote unquote evaluated money value of the individual, or just let go of Pride, like in the case of North Korea when the USA and maybe the UN tried to help them after a disaster, they refused the help and then later took all the supplies and gave it only to their military, the world would end up much better.
If your so concerned with humanity pulling itself up out of the muck and making its home a better place for itself, then why do you even need a God? You see the importance of the life we know, so why would you want it to be the doormat to Heaven? Sounds to me like if and when you reach Heaven, you should have some firm questions for the God who doesn't seem to care about the world he made as much as you do.
You're better then God dude. I mean that.
QuoteYes but I talked about this in a different comment. Nothing is Higher than the Holy Trinity
You know this how?
Quotebut to assume nothing else has power is a mistake that can cost a person or persons a hefty price.
And yet God will torture you infinitely if you accept any of those powers as equal to or better then him. THAT is a hefty price.
QuoteI don't know of anyone that uses filthy water to baptize children
It's called Holy Water, and recent studies have shown that it is unsafe for human consumption. And yet newborns are submerbed in it. We expose them to real sickness to protect them from an imaginary one.
QuoteAs for the crystal who knows, if it works it might have been blessed or have something Dark attached to it.
No.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
What makes you say that? If you told a Muslim that him and a Catholic Priest worship the same God, I'd expect he'd have harsh words for you.
Only if they didn't know what they were talking about.
The point is, every Deity can't exist at once. Some are mutually exclusive. So even if a God exists, some Gods must be false. How do you demonstrate that your God is not one of the false ones?
You harass Peter Weyland until he gives you a spaceship.
Please don't bring Prometheus into this .___. my brain hurts enough as it is.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lolbrary.com%2Flolpics%2F16%2Fdoes-god-have-a-flan-for-me-8016.jpg&hash=6dc3b1a9e517e0b83abf4d461de016247e6980c8)
He'll need a lot more then a Flan, but hey, it's a start.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Oct 01, 2013, 01:59:49 AMWhen you call on something that is what will responded to your calls.
That doesn't work with cats. Anyway, anybody or anything could be mistaken for something else.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Oct 01, 2013, 01:59:49 AMAs for the Priest I has never seen him period until I walked up to the table. Hands, feet, face, I had never seen before, and I had never heard his voice before ether. He was pretty nice, after that day he was in my work place and always offered me jam and peanut butter gram crackers, or cream cheese and gram crackers. Like two weeks later he was gone and I never saw him again.
Did he give you anything else?
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Oct 01, 2013, 04:28:04 AMI joined the Forces of disorder to help kill the IOM.
1. Don't they wear tights and capes? 2. Why would you want to destroy the Institute of Medicine?
Quote from: SM on Oct 01, 2013, 04:33:20 AM
QuoteThis is an example, I used to play 40k, I joined the Forces of disorder to help kill the IOM. I purposely made a fake Forces of Order account and feed them false information. I told them that the Dark Angels where really fighting for the forces of disorder. I told them all the players in Gibson City IL had started fighting other forces of order. I also brought up all the distrust other chapters had about Dark Angels, my work caused such an up roar and in fighting that we Forces of Disorder had at least a Week head advantage over the Forces of order. Many forums where made to flame Dark Angels and their players.
I hope this analogy helps you to understand what I am getting at.
Isn't trolling just the same as 'Thou shalt not bear false witness'?
Its not trolling when their is an object other than upsetting people. I wanted my side to win, I used a different approach other than fighting other players on a game table. Deception, Allusion, and Surprise are the the ultimate weapons. And if it makes any diffrence I attacked the Dark Angels community before I became devout, I was in my I hate Good and Bad faze sort of.
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 01, 2013, 12:48:01 AM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Sep 30, 2013, 05:50:19 PMNot much longer until the dreaded winter solstice celebrations commence. Who else plans on protesting against the religionists desire to display their bullshit in our towns and cities?
You may be alone here.
QuoteNot much longer until the dreaded winter solstice celebrations commence. Who else plans on protesting against the religionists desire to display their bullshit in our towns and cities?
Who cares
These guys are not ready for the atheist revolution...
There is no Atheist Revolution, just a much better representation of Atheism, at least in the states.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:05:34 PM
There is no Atheist Revolution, just a much better representation of Atheism, at least in the states.
Do you reside under solid mineral material? There is an ongoing peaceful revolution ever since people have "woken up" and left the clutches of religion. I don't have any solid stats but more and more people are joining the atheist ranks.
And soon everyone will be part of the Master Race, right?
I wouldn't call that a Revolution, but when you word it that way, I can see an argument being made for it. I guess I just take issue with the word 'revolution'. It has a very... firebrand ring to it, ya know?
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
[What makes you say that? If you told a Muslim that him and a Catholic Priest worship the same God, I'd expect he'd have harsh words for you.
If they had Harsh words I would know from the get go that they are one of the Radicals that has edit a good portion of the Quran.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
And what of the many pantheons and more shamanist deities, whose followers make the same claims as you do. You can't have 'there is only the Holy Trinity' and 'There is a dysfunctional family on Mount Olympus that represent a ton of different things"
I have explained this already, Demons are very good at lying. Although no where near as powerful as the Holy Trinity they can be very dangerous. Just as I told SM allusion, deception, and surprise, are very deadly weapons. Their mission is for people not to find the True and only God, and being worshiped is one way they accomplish this.
Something interesting to point out, just keep in mind I know the bare minimum about Hinduism, one of their temples and maybe all their temples in Thiland, are considered to be a dangerous place at night. The Priests don't even stay in the temple because of the Evil spirits that enter the temple. Now if this where true how could a place that is sacred allow dark entity's to enter its domain?
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
So the Bible says, what of it? I lived next to an Aboriginal who believed that placing an empty glass bottle next to the door would alert you to when an evil spirit would enter the home, because the bottle would fall over.
This only works if said entity is prone to knocking over bottles, their are documented cases of entities having a attraction to items, the would move them or break them. Since I don't know them, the person you are talking about, for all I know they had a haunting with a Ghost that would take bottles and now they assume all ghosts like bottles. As I said you can detect and expel entities without the Holy Trinity but all your doing it trading one demon for another.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
He didn't need the Holy Trinity for this practice. Many people hang bushels of Sage over their doors to ward off evil spirits. They never drew power from the Holy Trinity.
We don't know if these people had entities in their house or if they are just following a tradition that they think will ward of evil spirits. I can tell you this though, the more dangerous kind of entities you can't just hang Sage, nor Blessed items around and expect that to work. For those really dangerous things you need the Holy Trinity and strong faith.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
Are they all wrong and you are the only one who is right? Can you demonstrate that your belief is more plausible then theirs?
I can point to the Bible, in it it is written of Gods authority over all of creation. Jesus further confirms this, and warns that he is the Son of God and that we are to believe this or we can not be saved. At the time he had completed many signs to the people, and later down the road of his teachings he commanded Saint Peter and the other Apostles to spreed the Good news. In his teaching and the Fathers they talk about the other religions and warns us off about them, and in Exodus God even said he cast down all the Egyptian false Gods. In Genesis the origins of some people in Greek and Roman mythology like Hercules. It speaks of origins of others as well but they are so dark I can not say them. You don't see anything really like this in the text of other religions.
That and then theirs the actual feeling I get when I am at Church or had the Holy Spirit join me. Its very great and powerful feeling. I was informed that you can just feel what is good and what is evil. I believe this because people that have had evil spirits attack them, oppress them, or posses them they experience cold, smothering, fearful, sickening feelings, the air it self will feel heavy.
What I experienced during the haunting was the opposite of how I feel at Church in the Holy Trinity presence .
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
Ah, apologies. Point is, the Holy Trinity you put so much stock in puts worship of other Deities as a worse crime then pedophilia. God doesn't even see fit to mention that f**king kids is wrong, but he makes it damn clear that if your not his one and only you'll f**king burn.
Actually its a given in his commands that f**king kids is wrong since we are only to have relations with our married significant other. Also Jesus goes on to say we all are better off never marrying. The thing about God is that he will forgive you of your sins only if you truly mean it, so if you did worship something other than him and realize your mistakes and repent he will forgive you. Their other conditions too like if you never even got the Good news but you still where a good person.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
Tide comes in, tide goes out, ya can't explain that.
Seriously though, predicting war? If I order a steak, and the steak arrives, is that prophecy?
I didn't say anything about Prophecy. We are at constant war with Evil, it doesn't just come and go with the seasons. It is always hunting and waiting for the right moment to strike. That being said you need protection from it, the Holy Trinity is that Protection, and the Angels it commands that stayed loyal. The ones that didn't came to Earth and where worshiped as Gods by a lot of people, and they caused great harm in making people believe in them or to just give up on believe at all.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
Where do you get this information from? How do we verify it? Because similar claims are made all over the world. How can you demonstrate that these claims are accurate?
I will right down in order the source of my information, the first is where I got most of my information, last is my least. (The Bible, many books in the Bible Genesis, Exodus, Mark, Luke, Mathew) Father Bob Bailey, Lorraine Warren(Catholic demonologist), Zak Bagans(only his research, his beliefs will get him killed)
This is the kind of stuff you don't want to experiment with, I would not even recommend Ghost Hunting because like I said Demons like to pretend to be things they are not. The safest way to verify it would be to watch recordings, not from a tv show unless the originals are too damaged.
I guess what it comes down too is faith. I have faith in what I have seen and heard from these people because of what I went through. Some of the things are so extreme, and they where recorded, that your only two options is to say it is fake or it really happened. Then theirs the testimonial of people that have been badly attacked by these things, way worse than what I went through, and good amount of them had the events recorded.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
I won't address your analogy because it's based off of the assertion you still haven't provided evidence for.
I think I addressed this in a comment earlier.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
Everyone? Where's mine? I guarantee you if I had the power to heal with touch I'd be spending my limited energy on people who actually needed it, not people who slept wrong and feel stiff.
Healing is one of many man gifts, gifts can be good fortune, talents, wisdom so on and so forth.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
Yeah, and Irish folk tales say that small men dressed in green guard hoards of gold, and that peoples testimony says the rainbow will lead you to it.
The reason I find his word credible is because he stopped the haunting in my house when we called on him, that and my arm, and I feel 70% of my Prayers he answers right away.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
If your so concerned with humanity pulling itself up out of the muck and making its home a better place for itself, then why do you even need a God? You see the importance of the life we know, so why would you want it to be the doormat to Heaven? Sounds to me like if and when you reach Heaven, you should have some firm questions for the God who doesn't seem to care about the world he made as much as you do.
It was Jesus teachings and commands that brought me to these conclusions, If I hadn't red the books in the bible and listen to his words I would probably be spending my time in a very selfish manner like I was before I started believing.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
You're better then God dude. I mean that.
I never will be better than God, esp since my Cross that I bear is Anger. I get angry because I am tired of being labeled bad things just because I like a particular video game or movie. I see it to often, I am garbage and a scum bag because I like Kinect Star Wars, or something like that. Or when I am labeled as subhuman just because of the job I used to do, I wont say it but lets just say it was part of the food industry. Hell I get more crap from these things than being Catholic.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
You know this how?
Mainly because of what it says in the Bible, and through experiences I have mentioned in earlier posts. Like I said after that haunting I paid much more attention to what it says in those books in the Bible.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
And yet God will torture you infinitely if you accept any of those powers as equal to or better then him. THAT is a hefty price.
If what it says in the CIA Catholic Bible than this comment is only true if you know about the Holy Trinity and still deny it. If some how you did get the Good news but you where a Good person you could still go to Heaven.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
It's called Holy Water, and recent studies have shown that it is unsafe for human consumption. And yet newborns are submerbed in it. We expose them to real sickness to protect them from an imaginary one.
Your not supposed to Drink Holy water. In most cases Newborns are not Baptized, Infants though are Baptized. As for the study I am sure its based on the Holy water used for people blessing themselves when they enter and exit the Church. The Holy Water used for Baptizing Infants is freshly made. For full grown people we have a pool in the church that goes through a cycle.
I grantee you Hauntings and Demons are very real. The stuff that happened to me was not imaginary and I would not wish it on anyone.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:22:43 AM
QuoteAs for the crystal who knows, if it works it might have been blessed or have something Dark attached to it.
No.
Actully now that I think about it, if we take into account that space, time, and dimensions are infinite that would mean on some planet that may or may not have the same elements Earth has their are crystals on it that can heal the human body. That also goes the other way too, their can be crystals that have elements that are caustic to carbon.
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 01, 2013, 12:01:34 PM
That doesn't work with cats. Anyway, anybody or anything could be mistaken for something else.
Yeah right it doesn't work always on cats, but we are not talking about cats ether, we are talking about entities that are as intelligent or more so than us. They have shown in experience religious, and some not so religious, paranormal groups and demonoligists groups that if you are calling on something you need to say its name. Same with Jesus to call him we use his name just like he said to do in the Bible. And like I said it worked, I wasn't attacked by it ever again.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Oct 01, 2013, 01:59:49 AMDid he give you anything else?
Just advice to always be happy and grateful to God. Then he was gone after two weeks.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Oct 01, 2013, 04:28:04 AMI joined the Forces of disorder to help kill the IOM.
1. Don't they wear tights and capes? 2. Why would you want to destroy the Institute of Medicine?
[/quote]
Nah I was a Night Lord I looked like a Space Marine that wanted to be the Punisher from Marvel Comics. The Institute of Medicine accidentally sent Blue Whale Laxatives on one of their shipments that was supposed to have medicine to help people sleep. My friends had a crappy day so we decided to Punish them, you know because Night Lords think they are the Punisher.
QuoteI have explained this already, Demons are very good at lying.
I have asked several times now for you to demonstrate demons. You can't go from 'I saw a shadow in my house' to 'every Deity aside from Yahweh is a Demon trying to hornswaggle you'
QuoteThe Priests don't even stay in the temple because of the Evil spirits that enter the temple. Now if this where true how could a place that is sacred allow dark entity's to enter its domain?
You keep saying ridiculous things like this, but where are they coming from? Please, provide your sources. A Temple in Thailand is so evidently haunted that people are in danger? That's a fantastic claim. Now show me your fantastic evidence. A link. A name. Something. Anything to direct those of us that aren't content with hearsay.
QuoteAs I said you can detect and expel entities without the Holy Trinity but all your doing it trading one demon for another.
Once again, please back up these claims. You can't just skip ahead to the intricities of Demon trading when you haven't even covered whether Demons are real or not.
QuoteWe don't know if these people had entities in their house or if they are just following a tradition that they think will ward of evil spirits.
Oh the irony.
QuoteI can tell you this though, the more dangerous kind of entities you can't just hang Sage, nor Blessed items around and expect that to work. For those really dangerous things you need the Holy Trinity and strong faith.
Oh, sure, you can tell me that, but are you planning on doing anything other then that? Like before, you're explain intricacies of something you haven't demonstrated. Show me Demons exist, or at the very least make a case for it, before you tell me what wards off what.
QuoteI can point to the Bible, in it it is written of Gods authority over all of creation.
And Harry Potter lived in London.
QuoteJesus further confirms this
Stop. You can't use an extract of a book to prove the book. Jesus cannot 'further confirm' anything God said, just like Ronald Weasley cannot 'further conform' Harry Potter's claim that the Womping Willow has feelings.
QuoteThat and then theirs the actual feeling I get when I am at Church or had the Holy Spirit join me. Its very great and powerful feeling.
I get that from Devils Cut Bourbon, and some people get that from heroine. What are you trying to say? You feeling something doesn't demonstrate anything.
QuoteI was informed that you can just feel what is good and what is evil
By who? And how did this person come by this knowledge?
QuoteActually its a given in his commands that f**king kids is wrong since we are only to have relations with our married significant other. Also Jesus goes on to say we all are better off never marrying.
So he feels he need's to clarify that men shall not lay with men, but decides that infants and young children don't need a special mention? God really is a homophobic c**t isn't he?
QuoteThe thing about God is that he will forgive you of your sins only if you truly mean it, so if you did worship something other than him and realize your mistakes and repent he will forgive you. Their other conditions too like if you never even got the Good news but you still where a good person.
So then what's the point of Hell? Does God value true subservience over the righteous (and by righteous, I mean demonstrably, infinitely worse then Hitlers atrocities, what with infinite punishment for finite crimes) punishment that he himself enforces? Your telling me that someone he deems worthy of unending torment can escape that if he truly loves God?
So God isn't just a homophobic c**t, he's an egomaniacal narcissist as well.
QuoteI didn't say anything about Prophecy. We are at constant war with Evil, it doesn't just come and go with the seasons. It is always hunting and waiting for the right moment to strike. That being said you need protection from it, the Holy Trinity is that Protection, and the Angels it commands that stayed loyal. The ones that didn't came to Earth and where worshiped as Gods by a lot of people, and they caused great harm in making people believe in them or to just give up on believe at all.
Back. It. Up. With. Facts. Please do not quote the Bible.
Quote
I will right down in order the source of my information, the first is where I got most of my information, last is my least. (The Bible, many books in the Bible Genesis, Exodus, Mark, Luke, Mathew) Father Bob Bailey, Lorraine Warren(Catholic demonologist), Zak Bagans(only his research, his beliefs will get him killed
Sorry to say, but your sources are garbage. You've got old fairy tale books, and loonies who believe those same books. Even if I was willing to accept the Bible as 'historical evidence', you still need to dismiss those other sources as confirmation bias, since they're all just being an echo chamber for the first source and adding whatever they feel like to it.
QuoteThis is the kind of stuff you don't want to experiment with, I would not even recommend Ghost Hunting because like I said Demons like to pretend to be things they are not. The safest way to verify it would be to watch recordings, not from a tv show unless the originals are too damaged.
So, actively fighting off Demons with your faith is good, but learning about how to fight off Demons is bad? Unreal.
QuoteI think I addressed this in a comment earlier.
You haven't provided your evidence for Demons yet, so you haven't addressed it.
QuoteHealing is one of many man gifts, gifts can be good fortune, talents, wisdom so on and so forth.
You mean those scam artists who use word games to make incredibly vague and interpretive predictions?
QuoteThe reason I find his word credible is because he stopped the haunting in my house when we called on him, that and my arm, and I feel 70% of my Prayers he answers right away.
EVEN IF, and I say that tentatively, you were haunted by a black creature and had a minor stiffness healed, that DOESN'T demonstrate anything you've claimed. The conclusions you come to based off of these events are ridiculously out of proportion. It would be like if I felt better because a wind caressed my face, and came to the conclusion that Thor is real, because who else is keeping the Frost Giants away?
QuoteIt was Jesus teachings and commands that brought me to these conclusions, If I hadn't red the books in the bible and listen to his words I would probably be spending my time in a very selfish manner like I was before I started believing.
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1 Timothy 2:12)
"Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks." (Psalm 137:9)
"So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Get up; let's go.' But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home." (Judges 19:25-28)
You get your morality from THIS trash?
Ya know what, looking at how long this one response has been, and just how much more I have to respond to, I'm going to stop here. You're quite welcome to continue replying to me, and I will do my best to respond, but I no longer see a need for the kind of effort I've been putting in. I seriously doubt you have the ability to grant most of my points with satisfactory answers.
This was fun and very stimulating for me, but I no longer wish to partake in this particular back and forth. Have a good night.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:45:18 PM
I wouldn't call that a Revolution, but when you word it that way, I can see an argument being made for it. I guess I just take issue with the word 'revolution'. It has a very... firebrand ring to it, ya know?
Considering the Catholic church years ago would quarter and hang you for being a heretic. I like the firebrand ring to it. It is an intellectual peaceful movement that has the capability of being much more. I do think there is progress being made as science has already made religion obsolete.
So, if the Devil is lying about other religions, there's an equal chance that the Holy Trinity and the Bible are the products of his lies, too.
Again, there isn't anything more convincing in the Bible that makes it more realistic than any other holy book or even any other piece of literature. Some people had pointed out that Spider-Man exists because he appears in comic books. The difference is that the Bible has to come right out and tell you that its "hero" exists.
Or, in the Avengers comic book, it references George Bush. Now, we know that George Bush exists, and that he was once president of the USA. Does this mean that Thor, Hulk, Iron Man and Captain America exist?
That's the kind of game Biblical scholars plays. SEE! This place existed for reals, there for God.
Hmmm, let's see...
There is an estimated 43,000 Christian denominations as of 2012. If Demons are tricky enough to create that many false sects, then I'd say it's reasonable that you yourself could be deceived Rinzler. The only way for you to not be so, according to your own logic, is if you were somehow more perceptive then the other 2 BILLION Christians in the world, or through luck.
Your chances of being deceived within Christianity alone is 42,999 to 1. Feeling lucky?
You can't argue belief with reason - this is going nowhere good.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 01, 2013, 05:36:50 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 05:05:34 PM
There is no Atheist Revolution, just a much better representation of Atheism, at least in the states.
Do you reside under solid mineral material? There is an ongoing peaceful revolution ever since people have "woken up" and left the clutches of religion. I don't have any solid stats but more and more people are joining the atheist ranks.
Or it could simply be that more atheists are expressing themselves. People from all ideologies are becoming more and more noisy especially with YouTube providing an easy platform to do so.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Oct 02, 2013, 11:17:33 AM
You can't argue belief with reason - this is going nowhere good.
Tearing down Theistic conclusions is like a Bishop in a strip club. It's not hard, and it's fun to watch ;)
Now, if I were a Demon, and my goal was to trick someone into accepting me as God, I would use the classic mechanic routine... haunt the hell out of your house until you go to get help, then step in to offer that help.
Congratulations, you've been unwittingly harboring a swindler Demon from Hell all these years under the impression the Lord cleansed your home. Try to dismiss that possibility.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 02, 2013, 11:59:24 AMTearing down Theistic conclusions is like a Bishop in a strip club. It's not hard, and it's fun to watch ;)
And you can beat your bishop in a strip club.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 01, 2013, 06:54:47 PM
I have asked several times now for you to demonstrate demons. You can't go from 'I saw a shadow in my house' to 'every Deity aside from Yahweh is a Demon trying to hornswaggle you'
QuoteThe Priests don't even stay in the temple because of the Evil spirits that enter the temple. Now if this where true how could a place that is sacred allow dark entity's to enter its domain?
You keep saying ridiculous things like this, but where are they coming from? Please, provide your sources. A Temple in Thailand is so evidently haunted that people are in danger? That's a fantastic claim. Now show me your fantastic evidence. A link. A name. Something. Anything to direct those of us that aren't content with hearsay.
QuoteAs I said you can detect and expel entities without the Holy Trinity but all your doing it trading one demon for another.
Once again, please back up these claims. You can't just skip ahead to the intricities of Demon trading when you haven't even covered whether Demons are real or not.
QuoteWe don't know if these people had entities in their house or if they are just following a tradition that they think will ward of evil spirits.
Oh the irony.
QuoteI can tell you this though, the more dangerous kind of entities you can't just hang Sage, nor Blessed items around and expect that to work. For those really dangerous things you need the Holy Trinity and strong faith.
Oh, sure, you can tell me that, but are you planning on doing anything other then that? Like before, you're explain intricacies of something you haven't demonstrated. Show me Demons exist, or at the very least make a case for it, before you tell me what wards off what.
QuoteI can point to the Bible, in it it is written of Gods authority over all of creation.
And Harry Potter lived in London.
QuoteJesus further confirms this
Stop. You can't use an extract of a book to prove the book. Jesus cannot 'further confirm' anything God said, just like Ronald Weasley cannot 'further conform' Harry Potter's claim that the Womping Willow has feelings.
QuoteThat and then theirs the actual feeling I get when I am at Church or had the Holy Spirit join me. Its very great and powerful feeling.
I get that from Devils Cut Bourbon, and some people get that from heroine. What are you trying to say? You feeling something doesn't demonstrate anything.
QuoteI was informed that you can just feel what is good and what is evil
By who? And how did this person come by this knowledge?
QuoteActually its a given in his commands that f**king kids is wrong since we are only to have relations with our married significant other. Also Jesus goes on to say we all are better off never marrying.
So he feels he need's to clarify that men shall not lay with men, but decides that infants and young children don't need a special mention? God really is a homophobic c**t isn't he?
QuoteThe thing about God is that he will forgive you of your sins only if you truly mean it, so if you did worship something other than him and realize your mistakes and repent he will forgive you. Their other conditions too like if you never even got the Good news but you still where a good person.
So then what's the point of Hell? Does God value true subservience over the righteous (and by righteous, I mean demonstrably, infinitely worse then Hitlers atrocities, what with infinite punishment for finite crimes) punishment that he himself enforces? Your telling me that someone he deems worthy of unending torment can escape that if he truly loves God?
So God isn't just a homophobic c**t, he's an egomaniacal narcissist as well.
QuoteI didn't say anything about Prophecy. We are at constant war with Evil, it doesn't just come and go with the seasons. It is always hunting and waiting for the right moment to strike. That being said you need protection from it, the Holy Trinity is that Protection, and the Angels it commands that stayed loyal. The ones that didn't came to Earth and where worshiped as Gods by a lot of people, and they caused great harm in making people believe in them or to just give up on believe at all.
Back. It. Up. With. Facts. Please do not quote the Bible.
Quote
I will right down in order the source of my information, the first is where I got most of my information, last is my least. (The Bible, many books in the Bible Genesis, Exodus, Mark, Luke, Mathew) Father Bob Bailey, Lorraine Warren(Catholic demonologist), Zak Bagans(only his research, his beliefs will get him killed
Sorry to say, but your sources are garbage. You've got old fairy tale books, and loonies who believe those same books. Even if I was willing to accept the Bible as 'historical evidence', you still need to dismiss those other sources as confirmation bias, since they're all just being an echo chamber for the first source and adding whatever they feel like to it.
QuoteThis is the kind of stuff you don't want to experiment with, I would not even recommend Ghost Hunting because like I said Demons like to pretend to be things they are not. The safest way to verify it would be to watch recordings, not from a tv show unless the originals are too damaged.
So, actively fighting off Demons with your faith is good, but learning about how to fight off Demons is bad? Unreal.
QuoteI think I addressed this in a comment earlier.
You haven't provided your evidence for Demons yet, so you haven't addressed it.
QuoteHealing is one of many man gifts, gifts can be good fortune, talents, wisdom so on and so forth.
You mean those scam artists who use word games to make incredibly vague and interpretive predictions?
QuoteThe reason I find his word credible is because he stopped the haunting in my house when we called on him, that and my arm, and I feel 70% of my Prayers he answers right away.
EVEN IF, and I say that tentatively, you were haunted by a black creature and had a minor stiffness healed, that DOESN'T demonstrate anything you've claimed. The conclusions you come to based off of these events are ridiculously out of proportion. It would be like if I felt better because a wind caressed my face, and came to the conclusion that Thor is real, because who else is keeping the Frost Giants away?
QuoteIt was Jesus teachings and commands that brought me to these conclusions, If I hadn't red the books in the bible and listen to his words I would probably be spending my time in a very selfish manner like I was before I started believing.
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1 Timothy 2:12)
"Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks." (Psalm 137:9)
"So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Get up; let's go.' But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home." (Judges 19:25-28)
You get your morality from THIS trash?
Ya know what, looking at how long this one response has been, and just how much more I have to respond to, I'm going to stop here. You're quite welcome to continue replying to me, and I will do my best to respond, but I no longer see a need for the kind of effort I've been putting in. I seriously doubt you have the ability to grant most of my points with satisfactory answers.
This was fun and very stimulating for me, but I no longer wish to partake in this particular back and forth. Have a good night.
I will not be able edit my posts like before, now moving on.
You are asking me to demonstrate demons, you need to clarify your request. If you are asking me to sumon one than you will be out of luck Its dangerous and sacarligious. I have told they have video and audio documented events. One good one out on dvd, and I am sure you can find it on the web "Ghost adventures the orignal documentray." They aired the events that took place on fox. Mostly you need to look up the cases the people I mentioned where involved in. Look at the victims involved. The people i mentioned only get involved in really bad hauntings, like people being attacked physically, some of these attacks are recorded.
The reason I said it is not wise too go out on the field and try and find these things Is because you dont have faith. If you found one of these things you would have no protection, it could kill you or do worse. Thats why I only recomened you read up on it, watch documented video of it, OR go to collage and take classes in Paranormal science. Pen State and Iowa City has some of the best.
Calling the people I mentioned crazy is a unfair judgement. They don't show signs of being crazy IF they were Fr Bob wouldnt even be an active Priest. Further more I do feel you do not actully read everything I post. The reason I say that is because you said Zack Baggan has no cred basically because he follows the bible. I distinctly posted that he pots himself in dager for ratings sake and does dark things to encurage paranormal activity. No practicing Catholic let alone demonolgist would do that because that is necromancey.
As far as the bible goes goes the only books in it that never happend are the Wisdom books Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom, and Sirach (Ecclesiasticus). Most other non Catholic Christians have tried not to reasmble the Catholic church, and in doing so, have left out historical information about each book in the bible.
In Timothy the reason that comment is said is because of Eves actions. In Judges that whole book is about the 12 Judges of Israel and their conflict agianst people doing harm to Israel. See what you wrote can be taken out of context because left out two important parts. 19 1-3 and 19 22. The guy protected a man and his family from being raped and killed by a group of real bad people.
Your comments about God are off. He is not homopobic, he however doesn't like it when people to bad things like rape people. The people in Sodom Gomorrah that where bad where bad because they raped people. I am very sure any gay person would not defend people that rape people, gay or not. their is no orientation that does not have rules set before them. Overall though its better to be Nonsextual.
When I was talking about God forgivving people of their sins besides loveing Jesus the key to forgivness is being sincerely sorry for your sins. That is one major diffrecnce between The Holy Trinity that you wont really find in other religions.
Phanom Rung temple thiland.
The reason I bring this up is if these other places where trully divine evil spirits should not be able to enter them.
Now I don't know if I believe in aliens, or what people say they are seeing are aliens, however I do believe something is going and it is getting worse people are now being found in South America and outside New York mutalated in the same way live stock has. Anyway it is strating to come to light some people can stop a abduction by calling on Jesus. I got to thinking, and I checked, their zero reports of alleged abductions at Christian churches, yet you got reports of abductions happaning every where else including next to one of New Yorks bridges, it had a lot of witnesses as well. If those things where real and if they are taking people why would they not take people at a Christain church?
Now as far as Jesus existing or listing to his authority all I can say is action speek louder than words. If you skimmed through what I wrote about the Haunting at my home you should do so. Heads up sorry about the strage grammer it is hard tpo write with an xbox controller. That was a very real and horrifying event, it went on for months and kept getting worse. If my family had not called on Jesus I could have died since it could physically hurt me.
If you don't feel like talking about this more that is fine because I feel you would actully have to go through what I did just to believe and I dont recomened that because you could die.
I have some questions about atheism. Are you one because you cant make the pieces fit OR are you one because of trust issues? Some people can be so disbelieving that they wont even believe small things like for example you tell them that it is raining outside but they say they will see for themseleves.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Oct 03, 2013, 12:52:27 AM
Your comments about God are off. He is not homopobic, he however doesn't like it when people to bad things like rape people.
>.>
I'm bisexual you deluded simpleton.
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
That's from your moral rulebook. It advocates my execution. You're quite free to live in a fantasy world of demons and exorcists and whatever other nonsense your brain conjures up, but don't you dare hold up that hate book as your moral compass and then tell me it doesn't judge me for things I have no choice in and can't change.
QuoteI have some questions about atheism. Are you one because you cant make the pieces fit OR are you one because of trust issues? Some people can be so disbelieving that they wont even believe small things like for example you tell them that it is raining outside but they say they will see for themseleves.
You're serious? First you advocate a book that calls for my death, tell me it doesn't (through willing or genuine ignorance I have no idea) and then you ask me if my not partaking of your special brand of insanity is a trust issue?
I'm sorry, I just have this weird compulsion to find good reasons to believe things. I don't go outside to verify someones claim that it's raining, because I know that sometimes it rains. You may be okay with blind faith in your feelings, but I prefer to be sane. I believe that water falls from the sky, and I understand how that happens. But I don't believe the last Space Panda crying is what makes it rain, because I have no reason to, just like I have no reason to believe a Bronze Age figure of myth grants special powers to people who believe in him to drive away demons who are out to start false religions.
Are you mad or just a Troll? Because your either the most thoroughly deluded Theist I've met in years, or the most dedicated and convincing Troll I've fallen for.
Aaaand just like a Bishop at a boys' school, it ends in tears. ::)
All the people who thought it'd end well...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsubculture.co.uk%2Fsubculture-blog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F11%2Fempty_classroom1.jpg&hash=d17ce93de435a538557948b6a5b3aa9af32ac522)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1225.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee395%2FChrisPachi%2FRinzler_zps24195689.jpg&hash=d2a81a105af39bd936c937d1248a03fac72fce97)
Forgive me if I have zero tolerance for shit like this. You don't hold a Bible and then tell a bi/gay man that "God has nothing against you".
You're taking this thread way to personal..
Quote from: coolbreeze on Oct 03, 2013, 06:30:25 PM
You're taking this thread way to too personal..
Sorry I couldn't resist :)
The bible is a poor choice for a moral compass. Nuff said.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 03, 2013, 07:18:58 PM
Quote from: coolbreeze on Oct 03, 2013, 06:30:25 PM
You're taking this thread way to too personal..
Sorry I couldn't resist :)
The bible is a poor choice for a moral compass. Nuff said.
While I sympathise to some degree, religion has at least taught people how behave nicely even if it's for the wrong reasons.
Or it tries to take credit for peoples own morality. You don't spend a few thousand years evolving as a social species without getting a sense of empathy burned into you.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 04, 2013, 11:33:16 AM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 03, 2013, 07:18:58 PM
Quote from: coolbreeze on Oct 03, 2013, 06:30:25 PM
You're taking this thread way to too personal..
Sorry I couldn't resist :)
The bible is a poor choice for a moral compass. Nuff said.
While I sympathise to some degree, religion has at least taught people how behave nicely even if it's for the wrong reasons.
It's also taught people to kill and prosecute others who don't share beliefs and to exercise hatred for those who dont conform to their idealogies. However at the same time, I think it's built into the atheist ethos to disparage and ridicule those unfortunate enough to succumb to a mythical belief system but at least we dont kill others. Penn Jillete for example gets a rock hard boner when he gets an opportunity to take down a religionist.
Penn Jillette is an odd choice for an atheist example, as he himself made a living off of deception.
Dawkins said it well. Ridicule that which is ridiculous.
I don't tear into Theists because it gives me a boner, I tear into them because they are presenting me ridiculous things and saying they are true. They don't even need to enforce it on me, like saying I will go to Hell, to make me take issue with it.
Here's an example. A homeless man wearing foil around his head is talking to you at a bus stop and he tells you that the bus driver on this run is a genetically engineered shapeshifter made with reptilian and ape DNA, and he's part of a slow take over from an Earth that vibrates at a different frequency to ours.
Do you grant this mans opinion respect? No, of course not. You don't need to verbally disagree, but in your head, you've dismissed his claims and don't find him credible.
Now, how is this different from someone telling you the story of The Fall, and that it's the reason you have to tell a man in a dress through an obscuring screen of all the times you wanted to touch yourself, but you have to do a chant first.
The reason we don't treat them the same is that one has wormed it's way into society and become a part of it's background noise. No one questions it, because it's been made a taboo.
I believe that the Theist deserves to be challenged more then the homeless man who believes in Reptilians. The homeless man is funny and harmless, the Theist is part of a destructive system of ignorance that is both powerful and nearly invisible, and the only time it ever seems to change its ways is when it's dragged kicking and screaming into the present day. It's essential we grab this ancient social construct by it's hair and haul it into it's proper place, an outdated relic of human development, societies growing pains.
But no, it's 'rude' to do that now. "Faith is personal" is one of the worst lies we've accepted, and it needs to change.
That is why I challenge Theists as hard as I do.
Quote from: BANE on Oct 04, 2013, 02:51:43 PM
Penn Jillette is an odd choice for an atheist example, as he himself made a living off of deception.
Honest deception though. A card trick is a deception. It's all about the intent.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 04, 2013, 02:56:17 PM
Dawkins said it well. Ridicule that which is ridiculous.
I don't tear into Theists because it gives me a boner, I tear into them because they are presenting me ridiculous things and saying they are true. They don't even need to enforce it on me, like saying I will go to Hell, to make me take issue with it.
Here's an example. A homeless man wearing foil around his head is talking to you at a bus stop and he tells you that the bus driver on this run is a genetically engineered shapeshifter made with reptilian and ape DNA, and he's part of a slow take over from an Earth that vibrates at a different frequency to ours.
Do you grant this mans opinion respect? No, of course not. You don't need to verbally disagree, but in your head, you've dismissed his claims and don't find him credible.
Now, how is this different from someone telling you the story of The Fall, and that it's the reason you have to tell a man in a dress through an obscuring screen of all the times you wanted to touch yourself, but you have to do a chant first.
The reason we don't treat them the same is that one has wormed it's way into society and become a part of it's background noise. No one questions it, because it's been made a taboo.
I believe that the Theist deserves to be challenged more then the homeless man who believes in Reptilians. The homeless man is funny and harmless, the Theist is part of a destructive system of ignorance that is both powerful and nearly invisible.
That is why I challenge Theists as hard as I do.
Quote from: BANE on Oct 04, 2013, 02:51:43 PM
Penn Jillette is an odd choice for an atheist example, as he himself made a living off of deception.
Honest deception though. A card trick is a deception. It's all about the intent.
Well put Sabby.
I consider the sometimes abrasive PJ to be a sort of an atheist proselytizer. Since violence against religionists is illogical, the best way to lessen the impact of the illogical and irrational populace is to inform them of how foolish their belief system is. Something PJ does really well and that is why I consider him to be a major figure in the atheist movement.
I disagree with him sometimes, usually on other issues, like economics, but he does do a great job of conveying confusing topics to the layman. That's really where we've needed to grow. There is no shortage of Atheist voices out there, but so many of them are scientists, for example, and they tend to complicate the issues they convey.
People like PJ, Matt Dillahunty, Thundefoot and NonStampCollector are people I could introduce my Nana to and she would understand them xD
Still, we need people like Dawkin's. We can talk amongst ourselves all we want and reach out to those who are interested, but the Pens of the world can't smash the system. Sometimes, ya need a dickhead to go for the throat of the problem and show everyone it can bleed.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Oct 03, 2013, 11:49:20 AM
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee395/ChrisPachi/Rinzler_zps24195689.jpg
:D
Quote from: BANE on Oct 04, 2013, 02:51:43 PMPenn Jillette is an odd choice for an atheist example, as he himself made a living off of deception.
Read (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/opinion-randi-magic-scientists/).
It's pretty obvious that Jillette's work is presented as entertainment and not reality, so, no, it's not deception.
Quote from: SabbyDawkins said it well. Ridicule that which is ridiculous.
Dawkins needs to relax a little. I'm all for breaking the taboo, but breaking it with ridicule is like f**king for virginity - the harder you push, the further you get from your goal. This is a war of attrition that Atheism can't lose, so ease into it. Hearts and minds. ;)
Perhaps in some instances a gentler approach is needed, but I don't think we should award Theistic claims any leniency. If someone presents a truth claim, it's fair game as far as I'm concerned.
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 05, 2013, 11:20:47 AM
Quote from: BANE on Oct 04, 2013, 02:51:43 PMPenn Jillette is an odd choice for an atheist example, as he himself made a living off of deception.
Read (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/opinion-randi-magic-scientists/).
It's pretty obvious that Jillette's work is presented as entertainment and not reality, so, no, it's not deception.
It was a funny observation, not a serious critique. ::)
Quote from: BANE on Oct 05, 2013, 06:07:13 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 05, 2013, 11:20:47 AM
Quote from: BANE on Oct 04, 2013, 02:51:43 PMPenn Jillette is an odd choice for an atheist example, as he himself made a living off of deception.
Read (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/opinion-randi-magic-scientists/).
It's pretty obvious that Jillette's work is presented as entertainment and not reality, so, no, it's not deception.
It was a funny observation, not a serious critique. ::)
Winking smileys work wonders.
Penn and Teller's show Bullshit had some great episodes on organized religion and about those scam artist like John Edwards. I think they do a great job of carrying on Houdini's work of exposing those assholes.
I am glad to see how this Atheism thread has grown and all the ideas that have been talked about. I haven't been on AVPG much lately and have enjoyed catching up on this thread and seeing everyone's comments. I think this community has a great group of people who are incredibly smart and can communicate their ideas well.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 05, 2013, 12:38:06 PMIf someone presents a truth claim, it's fair game as far as I'm concerned.
You can dismantle a truth claim without ridiculing the claimant. Why do so many Atheists have a problem understanding that concept?
You misunderstand.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Oct 06, 2013, 04:08:54 AM
You can dismantle a truth claim without ridiculing the claimant. Why do so many Atheists have a problem understanding that concept?
How does ridiculing a ridiculous claim = ridiculing the claimant? If a Scientist were to propose that gravity is a hoax concocted by fairies, I'd imagine many would deem his claim ridiculous, correct? Now, have they personally insulted him by rejecting his claim?
No. They haven't. The claim was the thing on trial, not the claimant. Why should Theists get to work under different rules?
They have a right to feel offended by their beliefs on trial, however childish that is, but this doesn't entitle them to special treatment.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 06, 2013, 04:26:19 AM
How does ridiculing a ridiculous claim = ridiculing the claimant?
It doesn't, and he didn't say it does.
He said you can dismantle a religious claim without personally ridiculing the claimant, and I'm saying that you can't ridicule a person through their claim. You can definitely add person ridicule onto your response, but your address of the claim is impersonal.
You cannot ridicule a claimant by ridiculing their claim. Example.
"Your claim is stupid" Addresses the claim.
"Your stupid" Addresses the claimant.
"Your claim is stupid and so are you for believing it" Addresses the claim and claimant.
Yes, and often people do the latter.
Correct. I personally think those who hold ridiculous beliefs are themselves ridiculous, and I will tell them that. But when I tell them why their claims are ridiculous, they have no legitimate grounds for offense. I give them plenty of that elsewhere :P
Edit: I see how this may be misleading considering my later posts, so I will clarify. Telling someone they are ridiculous is not necessarily insulting. I've talked to a Witness once that was having a lot of troubling answering direct questions and was tripping all over herself, and I told her quite plainly that she was acting ridiculous. And she received this well. There was no offense intended or received. She knew how she seemed and tried to correct herself.
So no, I don't think it is out of line at all to call someone ridiculous for believing 2 of every animal survived 40 days in a wooden boat. It would be out of line to call them a dumb c**t, but they are being ridiculous and should be told that. If they want to take extreme offense at this, that's their own problem.
... so in fact what you meant when you first replied was, "You're right, you don't have to insult the claimant when debunking their claims, but it's too fun not to".
No, let me try and break it down for you.
I said that it is fair to ridicule the ridiculous.
Chris said that you can dissect a claim without ridiculing the claimant.
I point out that one does not equal the other. The dissection itself cannot be the insult.
Pointing to examples of personal insult does not invalidate this.
He's not saying they're the same thing -- he's saying that when people debunk the claim they also go after the person making it. Which you just backed up.
Eh, depends on the claim and how it's made. I'm perfectly capable of being civil and friendly while debating a Theist. I've had Mormons visit me maybe a dozen times in the last few years and some of those visits have been an hour long, and they all remained civil and friendly.
Please don't insinuate that I'm incapable of or unwilling to do this. When a Theist can present a claim to me in a calm and civil manner, they will get a similar response. Respect is key.
Edit: Elaborated on my earlier post to clarify.
After several millennia of their whacky hijinks, theists can't eat what they've dished out.
Yeah, it's just not cool, telling someone that something that makes them happy might not be a good idea. That's why we don't try to get friends and family away from heroine.
Oh, wait.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 06, 2013, 05:38:28 AM
Eh, depends on the claim and how it's made. I'm perfectly capable of being civil and friendly while debating a Theist. I've had Mormons visit me maybe a dozen times in the last few years and some of those visits have been an hour long, and they all remained civil and friendly.
Please don't insinuate that I'm incapable of or unwilling to do this. When a Theist can present a claim to me in a calm and civil manner, they will get a similar response. Respect is key.
Edit: Elaborated on my earlier post to clarify.
Just curious as to why you would sit an hour with a visiting door to door morman if you aren't one yourself? Are you that curious or are you looking for answers?
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 06, 2013, 03:43:53 PM
Yeah, it's just not cool, telling someone that something that makes them happy might not be a good idea. That's why we don't try to get friends and family away from heroine.
Oh, wait.
Yes, religion is like heroine. ::)
Quote from: saintssinphony on Oct 06, 2013, 05:37:27 PM
Just curious as to why you would sit an hour with a visiting door to door morman if you aren't one yourself? Are you that curious or are you looking for answers?
They came to me and told me that they could improve my life and save my soul. That's a bold claim. If they were comfortable and confident enough with that claim, then they can stand to defend it as well.
It was an old woman and a fairly young one if that helps. I was more interested in the young ones take on it, since the old woman seemed to be the leader here.
I wanted to see how they would fair under questioning. Know what I got? Refusal to give direct responses to questions. After 20 minutes, we went from 'I have proof that God is real' to 'I know in my heart it's true because I've been married 50 years'. Everything after that was them on the defensive. They would answer a question with a story, I would ask them about the story, and they would make excuses for the specifics not adding up or being horrible. I had to really insist to keep them on one point. They just wanted to jump to this or that and keep changing the topic, because if you kept them on one point for more then a minute they started falling apart.
Ya really need to pin them down or you'll spend all day chasing them.
The old woman ended up getting pretty upset and leaving after I caught her in a logic trap (I was in no way rude to her, but she was getting steadily agitated at not being able to answer my questions) but the young woman was much better at listening and didn't have strong reactions. So I guess that was my goal, to maybe coax her to take a closer look at her beliefs.
As for the logic trap...
This has always been a winner for me.
Can God be wrong? They usually answer no.
Can God lie to us? They usually answer no.
God told Abraham to kill his son. As Abraham raised the knife, God appeared and told him not to.
Did God lie to Abraham and did not actually want him to kill his son, or did God change his mind and was mistaken?
Every time I've used this, they claim 'that's opinion' or 'your interpreting it wrong' and then try to get away from that point as quick as they can.
Quote from: BANE on Oct 06, 2013, 05:43:34 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 06, 2013, 03:43:53 PM
Yeah, it's just not cool, telling someone that something that makes them happy might not be a good idea. That's why we don't try to get friends and family away from heroine.
Oh, wait.
Yes, religion is like heroine. ::)
Not exactly the same, just an example of the 'but it makes people happy' argument not working. Like it doesn't work here.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 06, 2013, 05:53:01 PM
Quote from: saintssinphony on Oct 06, 2013, 05:37:27 PM
Just curious as to why you would sit an hour with a visiting door to door morman if you aren't one yourself? Are you that curious or are you looking for answers?
As for the logic trap...
This has always been a winner for me.
Can God be wrong? They usually answer no.
Can God lie to us? They usually answer no.
God told Abraham to kill his son. As Abraham raised the knife, God appeared and told him not to.
Did God lie to Abraham and did not actually want him to kill his son, or did God change his mind and was mistaken?
Every time I've used this, they claim 'that's opinion' or 'your interpreting it wrong' and then try to get away from that point as quick as they can.
But you
are interpreting it wrong...
Quote
Quote from: BANE on Oct 06, 2013, 05:43:34 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 06, 2013, 03:43:53 PM
Yeah, it's just not cool, telling someone that something that makes them happy might not be a good idea. That's why we don't try to get friends and family away from heroine.
Oh, wait.
Yes, religion is like heroine. ::)
Not exactly the same, just an example of the 'but it makes people happy' argument not working. Like it doesn't work here.
I think it works.
Although it ceases to work when you kill each other or discriminate over it.
Quote from: BANE on Oct 06, 2013, 06:30:05 PM
But you are interpreting it wrong...
Quote
How so? I'm seriously curious for this, as a Theist has never been able to explain to me how I've misinterpreted it.
Quote
How so? I'm seriously curious for this, as a Theist has never been able to explain to me how I've misinterpreted it.
It's not that God flip-flopped or is a liar per se...
It's that he's a jealous rage-prone possessive asshole, and I can't see why people find the Abraham story endearing.
He still either changed his mind or lied, and the person your asking does not believe God is capable of doing either. That's the point. It's a broken situation they can't address without admitting a flaw in their story or their understanding of God, which many Theists are simply incapable of doing.
Either way, the conversation crashes there, and either ends or moves on. I've never met a Theist to hear this and say "Well, that's a hard one, I'll have to think about that" or "I'm not sure I know how to answer that". It's always "That's your opinion, moving on"
Quote from: Valaquen on Oct 06, 2013, 09:02:01 PMIt's not that God flip-flopped or is a liar per se...
It's that he's a jealous rage-prone possessive asshole, and I can't see why people find the Abraham story endearing.
...or any other story from the OT. (People tend to lose perspective when it comes to such stories like "Noah and the Ark". God killed millions of people, including children and babies and he also killed animals, including fluffy bunnies, kitties and puppies. Not to mention that he could have done something else besides kill off a planet's population.)
The word around the campfire is that he did it to test Abe. Granted, God is supposed to be omniscient (when it's convenient for his Bleevers), but that is forgotten when he allegedly puts someone to the test. You point this out to the Bleevers and they either come up with something convoluted, get angry and/or run foir cover.
There's plenty more whitewashing (http://www.awkwardmomentsbible.com/) where that came from...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_BzWUuZN5w#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_BzWUuZN5w#ws)
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 06, 2013, 03:43:53 PM
Yeah, it's just not cool, telling someone that something that makes them happy might not be a good idea. That's why we don't try to get friends and family away from heroine.
Oh, wait.
stfu
Oh boy... approach, my son.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Fae6f150282f2c6fb76844f0e6844968b%2Ftumblr_mghc4yYxaK1ry10fwo1_400.gif&hash=e9b00d015c75df03e29ba8b084b3fc3e7933ae08)
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 06, 2013, 10:25:51 PM
Oh boy... approach, my son.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/ae6f150282f2c6fb76844f0e6844968b/tumblr_mghc4yYxaK1ry10fwo1_400.gif
sorry I overreacted. Shit happened. lost temper. My bad.
It's cool xD
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 06, 2013, 05:53:01 PM
Quote from: saintssinphony on Oct 06, 2013, 05:37:27 PM
Just curious as to why you would sit an hour with a visiting door to door morman if you aren't one yourself? Are you that curious or are you looking for answers?
They came to me and told me that they could improve my life and save my soul. That's a bold claim. If they were comfortable and confident enough with that claim, then they can stand to defend it as well.
It was an old woman and a fairly young one if that helps. I was more interested in the young ones take on it, since the old woman seemed to be the leader here.
I wanted to see how they would fair under questioning. Know what I got? Refusal to give direct responses to questions. After 20 minutes, we went from 'I have proof that God is real' to 'I know in my heart it's true because I've been married 50 years'. Everything after that was them on the defensive. They would answer a question with a story, I would ask them about the story, and they would make excuses for the specifics not adding up or being horrible. I had to really insist to keep them on one point. They just wanted to jump to this or that and keep changing the topic, because if you kept them on one point for more then a minute they started falling apart.
Ya really need to pin them down or you'll spend all day chasing them.
The old woman ended up getting pretty upset and leaving after I caught her in a logic trap (I was in no way rude to her, but she was getting steadily agitated at not being able to answer my questions) but the young woman was much better at listening and didn't have strong reactions. So I guess that was my goal, to maybe coax her to take a closer look at her beliefs.
As for the logic trap...
This has always been a winner for me.
Can God be wrong? They usually answer no.
Can God lie to us? They usually answer no.
God told Abraham to kill his son. As Abraham raised the knife, God appeared and told him not to.
Did God lie to Abraham and did not actually want him to kill his son, or did God change his mind and was mistaken?
Every time I've used this, they claim 'that's opinion' or 'your interpreting it wrong' and then try to get away from that point as quick as they can.
Isn't it creepy to see how the young ones all follow those older ones around especially when they aren't even related? The look of awe on the childrens faces as they see an older person tell of God and his Holy Greatness. I've went undercover to a Jehovah convention in my town and I think the children seem brainwashed and so does everyone else but especially the children. It's really one of the only times in my life I've ever been seriously creeped out by that kind of stuff. I used to believe brainwashing and mass hallucinations were just hogwash but since seeing all them in mass freaking out like they do I believe it and it's a sight to behold.
By young, I mean early 20's, but she claimed to have been an Atheist once. I know that would be technically true, but 'I was an Atheist like you once' is a common Mormon tactic.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 06, 2013, 05:38:28 AMI'm perfectly capable of being civil and friendly while debating a Theist.
You did name your recent opponent a simpleton, which tends to be the kind of tone with a lot of 'aggressive' atheists. Religious pomposity makes me mad too, but voicing it just does the cause an injustice IMO. You will in many cases be better educated or at least better informed than the person you are debating, but you don't need to rub that in their faces - it just puts people off-side and sures up the wall that you are repeatedly banging your head against. :)
You thought that was an equal give and take? No. That wasn't a debate. That was one person asserting things and refusing to budge on them or elaborate on him. Darth Rinzler has no interest in a civil debate, and that's why he didn't get one. There are plenty of other venues for him to spew his nonsense uncontested and unquestioned, but this ain't one of them.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 06, 2013, 11:01:14 PM
By young, I mean early 20's, but she claimed to have been an Atheist once. I know that would be technically true, but 'I was an Atheist like you once' is a common Mormon tactic.
Which is why I think Mormons are preventing America from becoming a truly secular nation. We really dodged a bullet when Mit Romney got beat out by Obama. I can't see Murica becoming a truly awesome secular nation unless the Mormons and those pesky scientologists and that church based out of the vatican are removed from the equation.
As long as people have egos, a secular nation will never exist. In fact, I think an argument could be made that if a secular nation were truly in existence and people weren't constantly under the influence of religious individuals, then it wouldn't challenge the rest of us to think about these rules and they're deemed to be important. I think religion has no place in our political system but without religion having some bearing on our lives, no one would be able to understand why it can be harmful.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 02:35:53 PM
As long as people have egos, a secular nation will never exist. In fact, I think an argument could be made that if a secular nation were truly in existence and people weren't constantly under the influence of religious individuals, then it wouldn't challenge the rest of us to think about these rules and they're deemed to be important. I think religion has no place in our political system but without religion having some bearing on our lives, no one would be able to understand why it can be harmful.
I'm just scared that America is going to become some Mormon theocracy one day and atheists will be hunted down like witches.
America will have to devolve a lot before we see actual violence and persecution in the streets, but majority of the population identify as Christian and many of them see Atheists as people trying to persecute them, so a heavily religious President could mean a LOT of very dangerous changes.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 07, 2013, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 02:35:53 PM
As long as people have egos, a secular nation will never exist. In fact, I think an argument could be made that if a secular nation were truly in existence and people weren't constantly under the influence of religious individuals, then it wouldn't challenge the rest of us to think about these rules and they're deemed to be important. I think religion has no place in our political system but without religion having some bearing on our lives, no one would be able to understand why it can be harmful.
I'm just scared that America is going to become some Mormon theocracy one day and atheists will be hunted down like witches.
What world are you living in where this is even a remote possibility?
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 07, 2013, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 02:35:53 PM
As long as people have egos, a secular nation will never exist. In fact, I think an argument could be made that if a secular nation were truly in existence and people weren't constantly under the influence of religious individuals, then it wouldn't challenge the rest of us to think about these rules and they're deemed to be important. I think religion has no place in our political system but without religion having some bearing on our lives, no one would be able to understand why it can be harmful.
I'm just scared that America is going to become some Mormon theocracy one day and atheists will be hunted down like witches.
LOLWUT. hahahahahaha :laugh:
The United States is moving farther and farther away from religion every day. The possibility of something like this happening is zero percent.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 05:00:33 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 07, 2013, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 02:35:53 PM
As long as people have egos, a secular nation will never exist. In fact, I think an argument could be made that if a secular nation were truly in existence and people weren't constantly under the influence of religious individuals, then it wouldn't challenge the rest of us to think about these rules and they're deemed to be important. I think religion has no place in our political system but without religion having some bearing on our lives, no one would be able to understand why it can be harmful.
I'm just scared that America is going to become some Mormon theocracy one day and atheists will be hunted down like witches.
What world are you living in where this is even a remote possibility?
You don't know what it's like here man...we fought off a Mormon Invasion force last night. Six Mormon Bike Squadrons got in. It was a goddamned blood bath. Bibles were flying everywhere..we lost Jack and Ted. Rick still has scripture plastered on his face. I don't think he's ever going to be right again. Atheist High Command is preparing an assault on the Temple of Doom but I don't think we can win the battle.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Oct 07, 2013, 05:21:43 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 07, 2013, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 02:35:53 PM
As long as people have egos, a secular nation will never exist. In fact, I think an argument could be made that if a secular nation were truly in existence and people weren't constantly under the influence of religious individuals, then it wouldn't challenge the rest of us to think about these rules and they're deemed to be important. I think religion has no place in our political system but without religion having some bearing on our lives, no one would be able to understand why it can be harmful.
I'm just scared that America is going to become some Mormon theocracy one day and atheists will be hunted down like witches.
LOLWUT. hahahahahaha :laugh:
The United States is moving farther and farther away from religion every day. The possibility of something like this happening is zero percent.
I agree that steps forward are being made, but the US is in a weird situation where taking a few giant steps backwards could be easily kicked off. Not far enough to make a witch hunt happen, but still, a lot of that progress could be undone quite easily.
I don't see how. It's not like Christians can just multiply in numbers over night. Also, while there are many that claim to be Christians, it means nothing. They don't go to Church, they don't practice what is written in scripture, and ect. They might as well be counted as part of the Atheist side. :P
It has to do with representation Cal. I realize many Christians are very casual in their belief, but there are also many others who would like to see children pray in school and learn that carbon dating doesn't work and the world could be 6 thousand years old.
If the US were to get a president that sympathized with these opinions, imagine the kind of change that could happen in a short time. Young Earth Creationists get pretty damn far on the ignorance and/or sympathies of their local politicians, imagine what they would do with a well meaning President that either didn't understand the issue but sympathized with the Religious, or actively wanted to help them.
I'm not saying it's throwing the gates of hell open on the country, but it's a foot in the door.
I have a feeling that in 10 years, likely less, the Christians in the U.S. will stop worrying about abortion and other such squabbles and will turn their attention to Islam. It's the fastest growing religion in the world and with Europe 'going to war' with Muslims over the past few years, they'll start crying about terrorists living on home soil.
I just wanna have my own country. :P
They'll be calling Islam immoral and offensive. Pot, meet kettle.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 05:00:33 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 07, 2013, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 02:35:53 PM
As long as people have egos, a secular nation will never exist. In fact, I think an argument could be made that if a secular nation were truly in existence and people weren't constantly under the influence of religious individuals, then it wouldn't challenge the rest of us to think about these rules and they're deemed to be important. I think religion has no place in our political system but without religion having some bearing on our lives, no one would be able to understand why it can be harmful.
I'm just scared that America is going to become some Mormon theocracy one day and atheists will be hunted down like witches.
What world are you living in where this is even a remote possibility?
The 2010's sir. A world where a presidential candidate must have a fervent religious devotion in order to be on the ballot. Believe it or not, the USA is still a country where religionists dicates who we can have for a leader.
I don't believe it because 'religionist' isn't even a word. Evangelicalism is popular the southern U.S. and I'm pretty sure it's only a small part of that region.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 08:05:19 PM
I don't believe it because 'religionist' isn't even a word. Evangelicalism is popular the southern U.S. and I'm pretty sure it's only a small part of that region.
Hun,
It's a real word in a real world.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religionist (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religionist)
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 07, 2013, 05:58:16 PMI realize many Christians are very casual in their belief, but there are also many others who would like to see children pray in school and learn that carbon dating doesn't work and the world could be 6 thousand years old.
There is indeed, but I think you are being a bit gloom and doom about it all - these kinds of ideas are in decline and are held by an increasing minority of people. All U.S presidents have been religious people and Atheists aren't getting hung up in the streets... yet. Public opinion would never stand for the politicising of such ideas, no matter how dogmatic a president is.
In Australia we just got ourselves a devout Catholic prime minister (
really devout - they call him the Mad Monk), but if he tried to push rubbish ideas into policy he would be shot down, mostly from people in his own cabinet. Maybe it will have a subtle effect, and if I had my way religious people would be banned from running for public office (I can be dogmatic too) but you and I don't live in a political dictatorship.
It's apocalyptic thinking. Mormon theocracy. Gimme a break. ;)
The don't call him the Mad Monk so much anymore - though who knows what the future holds.
Mind you, kinda worrying we have an Abbott and a Bishop in charge. Well she gets the coffee at least.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Oct 07, 2013, 10:27:56 PM
In Australia we just got ourselves a devout Catholic prime minister (really devout - they call him the Mad Monk), but if he tried to push rubbish ideas into policy he would be shot down, mostly from people in his own cabinet.
Correct, and I'm thankful for that xD I hate Abbott with a passion. But I just don't see the situations as comparable. I see the US as being far more volatile then that, with more politicians that would support things that go against separation of church and state, as long as it swings in Christianity's favor. Abbott can't do a whole lot here (though he will certainly try) but if he were the President of the USA, I think he could do far more damage in his 4 years then he could here in 3.
Call me a pessimist or ignorant of exactly how the US system is. I'm likely a pinch of both at times. I'm not trying to make it sound like we could see street justice against the Godless in 5 years, just I feel the whole situation with the states is a bit unstable.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 06:08:55 PMI have a feeling that in 10 years, likely less, the Christians in the U.S. will stop worrying about abortion and other such squabbles and will turn their attention to Islam. It's the fastest growing religion in the world and with Europe 'going to war' with Muslims over the past few years, they'll start crying about terrorists living on home soil.
Been there, done that, bought the soundtrack.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 07, 2013, 10:57:32 PMCall me a pessimist or ignorant of exactly how the US system is.
I didn't call you those things :)
I am certainly not fully across the U.S. system, however I get the distinct impression that we aren't that different from a sociopolitical standpoint. I just think there is more religious rhetoric in the U.S. and extreme voices are always louder - from outside and through a media window we just see the differences far more than we see the similarities. But as I say, I am probably not entirely au fait with American cultural norms.
Australians simply don't get passionate about religion or politics the same way Seppos do. That passion is generally reserved for sport.
In Australia political parties like Rise Up Australia, Christian Democratic Party, Citizens Electoral Council, One Nation are generally regarded as a bit of a joke by most people (those that even know they exist), and ignored.
In the US Bachman, Santorum et al. run for President...
Mind you the Secular Party of Australia got way less votes than the aforementioned far right religious nutbags.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/07/scalia-says-satan-is-a-real-person/?hpt=hp_c4 (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/07/scalia-says-satan-is-a-real-person/?hpt=hp_c4)
And I'll just leave this here. Scalia is a fun guy, that likes to actually share his personal opinions but man he sure is coo-coo for coco-puffs.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Oct 07, 2013, 10:27:56 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 07, 2013, 05:58:16 PMI realize many Christians are very casual in their belief, but there are also many others who would like to see children pray in school and learn that carbon dating doesn't work and the world could be 6 thousand years old.
There is indeed, but I think you are being a bit gloom and doom about it all - these kinds of ideas are in decline and are held by an increasing minority of people. All U.S presidents have been religious people and Atheists aren't getting hung up in the streets... yet. Public opinion would never stand for the politicising of such ideas, no matter how dogmatic a president is.
In Australia we just got ourselves a devout Catholic prime minister (really devout - they call him the Mad Monk), but if he tried to push rubbish ideas into policy he would be shot down, mostly from people in his own cabinet. Maybe it will have a subtle effect, and if I had my way religious people would be banned from running for public office (I can be dogmatic too) but you and I don't live in a political dictatorship.
It's apocalyptic thinking. Mormon theocracy. Gimme a break. ;)
Gillard was PM and she wasn't religious (granted she didn't actually get voted in either) and she was the first femae PM. As for Abott he has a very narrow mindset. Things like gay marrige (which his sister I believe is gay supports gay marrige) which a large majority of people think we should have (everyone has the right be married and happy) but Abott opposes instead wanting to stop the boats and have no carbon tax. But this isn't the political thread so I won't keep talking ;D
The Labor party under Gillard won the 2010 election.
Quote from: SM on Oct 08, 2013, 03:33:52 AM
The Labor party under Gillard won the 2010 election.
Forgive me but wasn't that against Abott than she went against a Kevin Rudd comeback. Than another one and she lost that :-\ I don't pay that much attention to politics the last three years fell like a long annoying blurr :laugh:
Rudd lost support of the party and resigned as leader rather than face a vote and Gillard got in in June 2010. Shortly after, she called a federal election (against Abbott) and despite a hung parliament got the support of the Greens and three independents, so was able to form government.
June 2013, Rudd got back in as leader and I think you know the rest.
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 08, 2013, 12:41:59 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 06:08:55 PMI have a feeling that in 10 years, likely less, the Christians in the U.S. will stop worrying about abortion and other such squabbles and will turn their attention to Islam. It's the fastest growing religion in the world and with Europe 'going to war' with Muslims over the past few years, they'll start crying about terrorists living on home soil.
Been there, done that, bought the soundtrack.
I assume you mean it's already happened? If that's true, I see history repeating itself. It's all dependent on where people's priorities are.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 09, 2013, 01:17:31 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 08, 2013, 12:41:59 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 06:08:55 PMI have a feeling that in 10 years, likely less, the Christians in the U.S. will stop worrying about abortion and other such squabbles and will turn their attention to Islam. It's the fastest growing religion in the world and with Europe 'going to war' with Muslims over the past few years, they'll start crying about terrorists living on home soil.
Been there, done that, bought the soundtrack.
I assume you mean it's already happened?
It had started years ago, got a fresh kick on September 12, 2001 and has been going on here and there across the States.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 09, 2013, 01:17:31 PMIf that's true, I see history repeating itself. It's all dependent on where people's priorities are.
Which seems to be "Gittin' rid of them thar towel-head Ay-rabs." I'm surprised rednecks hadn't invaded Dearborn, Michigan.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 09, 2013, 01:17:31 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 08, 2013, 12:41:59 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 07, 2013, 06:08:55 PMI have a feeling that in 10 years, likely less, the Christians in the U.S. will stop worrying about abortion and other such squabbles and will turn their attention to Islam. It's the fastest growing religion in the world and with Europe 'going to war' with Muslims over the past few years, they'll start crying about terrorists living on home soil.
Been there, done that, bought the soundtrack.
I assume you mean it's already happened? If that's true, I see history repeating itself. It's all dependent on where people's priorities are.
Well Europe could be all Muslim in as little as 40 years. Christian propaganda aside, this video has got me worried of a fundie dominated society in Europe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU#)
Looking back at history, going to war with Muslims is a slam dunk idea. What could possibly go wrong?
Sorry Kirkland, but that video is f**king retarded.
lol, CarnalCalligraphy is back
From what I have seen and experienced here in America the Muslim vs. Christian thing has origins rooted in the racial divide. I've even found Christian to be a codeword for "white" sometimes. It's seems like some people are all good with being anti-muslim but to be seen as racist is a no-no because racism is "in the past". Also, I've heard people of color proclaim whites can never truly be Muslim
and Islam is for anyone not white. (whatever that mean, I'm only relaying the craziness I've heard)
This kind of thing is why I totally don't get into religion because people will always use their "religious beliefs" to make a political statement or personal statement and I've rarely seen it be completely about faith. I don't have much use for faith anyhow, but I've seen many people get so fed up with that sort of thing over and over again that it continues to dishearten me. Be it Christian, Muslim whatever, most people (especially in my area) have some sort of religion and I seriously think if there was to be a end of the world scenario or some kind of major "shit hits the fan" world wide it will be because of a religious view.
You'd think the human race would evolve as a whole by now but nope we do the same shit over and over. It is crazy and it makes me wonder if the whole human race is really on the CRAZY TRAIN as a whole and we will do this shit forever and ever. So much life and money and resources are continually wasted on shit some god said who knows when. Maybe we have been doing it so long it's written in our genetic code somehow and we can never quit. It's kind of weird we don't fight for land anymore. Sure there's little bits of here and there that are fought over but the Earths' land is spoken for the most part and we've drawn our lines politically. America even said, hey China, be a communist, it's cool, whatever, but the whole world still gets up in arms over religious belief.
What's scary about that is nobody can really win. How do you smash the faith out of someone. You can't kill their God so for instance, will Islamic extremist always go on and on? Do you kill every one of them dead until none are left? If so is that really even the right thing? I don't see religion dying out either I'm afraid, humans have always believed in something "greater than themselves". Only a minority ever get off the religious teet. Do you guys think we will forever be throwing resources into this black hole? Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic, I tend to do that.
Here's some optimism...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f506lCk6Tos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f506lCk6Tos)
Quote from: saintssinphony on Oct 10, 2013, 12:35:44 AM
You'd think the human race would evolve as a whole by now
We live in a world where when someone discovers a new kind of matter or successfully destroys HIV in a treatment trial, somewhere else a 16 year old girl is being tied to a crucifix and beaten to expel demons or a trans woman is being burned alive as a witch in a so called civilized city.
World ain't unified yet.
As for the video, which isn't embedding, seriously guys, watch it. This girl is a true inspiration. I do disagree with her on some things which make her seem a little naive, but considering her history, I think it's wonderful she's managed to maintain any semblance of naivety.
Quote from: SM on Oct 10, 2013, 12:39:06 AM
Here's some optimism...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f506lCk6Tos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f506lCk6Tos)
good stuff. That is a brave youngster there.
Quote from: saintssinphony on Oct 10, 2013, 12:35:44 AMFrom what I have seen and experienced here in America the Muslim vs. Christian thing has origins rooted in the racial divide.
Of course it does - anyone who says otherwise is talking out their ass.
Nah, I'm not buying it...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2013%2F09%2F16%2Farticle-2421711-1BD9B651000005DC-80_964x714.jpg&hash=c122faf27a1dfba9976ee4881b540b722413f7a8)
Quote from: SM on Oct 10, 2013, 03:56:53 AM
Nah, I'm not buying it...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2013%2F09%2F16%2Farticle-2421711-1BD9B651000005DC-80_964x714.jpg&hash=c122faf27a1dfba9976ee4881b540b722413f7a8)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.chan4chan.com%2Fimg%2F2009-04-07%2Fgo_back_to.jpg&hash=b207da4313f75edf20f7ee22827e66150a0c0823)
Quote from: SM on Oct 10, 2013, 03:56:53 AM
Nah, I'm not buying it...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2013%2F09%2F16%2Farticle-2421711-1BD9B651000005DC-80_964x714.jpg&hash=c122faf27a1dfba9976ee4881b540b722413f7a8)
Sadly there is alot of these people and they all seem to be in the young 20 something demographic. I realize that not all Muslims are fundie terrorists but there seems to be a sizable sample size that indicates alot of anti-American mentality. I mean most if not all the bombers in the past decade or so including them marathon bombers were Islamists.
I'm going back on what I said earlier on either in this thread or another one, but I am honestly now glad that a distinction is drawn between a Muslim and an Islamist. A terrorist, at least far as the media is concerned it seems, is the latter and not the former.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 10, 2013, 12:49:22 PMI realize that not all Muslims are fundie terrorists but there seems to be a sizable sample size that indicates alot of anti-American mentality. I mean most if not all the bombers in the past decade or so including them marathon bombers were Islamists.
Islamists, not Muslims. Islamism is a socio-political idealogy, Islam is a religion.
Here's a tip: whenever you're about to rag on Muslims take a second to replace Islamist with 'Ku Klux Klan' and Islam with 'Christianity' in your head.
Now go back and decide whether that video you posted was a good idea.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Oct 10, 2013, 03:02:23 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 10, 2013, 12:49:22 PMI realize that not all Muslims are fundie terrorists but there seems to be a sizable sample size that indicates alot of anti-American mentality. I mean most if not all the bombers in the past decade or so including them marathon bombers were Islamists.
Islamists, not Muslims. Islamism is a socio-political idealogy, Islam is a religion.
Here's a tip: whenever you're about to rag on Muslims take a second to replace Islamist with 'Ku Klux Klan' and Islam with 'Christianity' in your head.
Now go back and decide whether that video you posted was a good idea.
Right.... but you seem to forget that Islamism is the driving factor and what the terrorists dream of having put forth in all western countries. All the Muslim terrorists so far have been hardline Islamists.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Islamist (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Islamist)
An Islamic revivalist movement, often characterized by
moral conservatism, literalism, and the attempt to implement Islamic values in all spheres of life.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 10, 2013, 05:26:35 PMRight.... but you seem to forget that Islamism is the driving factor and what the terrorists dream of having put forth in all western countries. All the Muslim terrorists so far have been hardline Islamists.
That's right. All Muslim
terrorists are Islamists, but not all Muslims (in fact a negligible minority) are Islamists. The video you posted chucked all of them into the same basket, ergo it's hate material. You really shouldn't be spreading that shit around.
You forget who you're addressing?
That bad huh?
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Oct 10, 2013, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 10, 2013, 05:26:35 PMRight.... but you seem to forget that Islamism is the driving factor and what the terrorists dream of having put forth in all western countries. All the Muslim terrorists so far have been hardline Islamists.
That's right. All Muslim terrorists are Islamists, but not all Muslims (in fact a negligible minority) are Islamists. The video you posted chucked all of them into the same basket, ergo it's hate material. You really shouldn't be spreading that shit around.
Right and I'm sure they were thinking of that when they blew up the trade centers and killed innocent people in Boston. For every peaceful muslim there's more fundie terrorists just waiting to kill innocent people. They dont make a distinction between us Americans when they bomb us or attack with IED's so why should we spare them the benefit of the doubt.
Do you want them to view all Americans as incest-bred, beer-swilling, money hungry capitalists? Exactly.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 01:30:53 PM
They dont make a distinction between us Americans when they bomb us or attack with IED's so why should we spare them the benefit of the doubt.
Because we're not extremist c**ts who simplify the world to fit our narrow views like they are?
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 11, 2013, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 01:30:53 PM
They dont make a distinction between us Americans when they bomb us or attack with IED's so why should we spare them the benefit of the doubt.
Because we're not extremist c**ts who simplify the world to fit our narrow views like they are?
Not you maybe, but
KirklandSignature sure as hell hit a bottom low in the last couple of posts of his.
Atheism in the name of Populistic Islamophobia...
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 11, 2013, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 01:30:53 PM
They dont make a distinction between us Americans when they bomb us or attack with IED's so why should we spare them the benefit of the doubt.
Because we're not extremist c**ts who simplify the world to fit our narrow views like they are?
:laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzjdh12Zw6U#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzjdh12Zw6U#ws)
Fox News always makes me laugh and then shake my head and sigh. I'm pretty sure they dramatize most of their bullshit for ratings (And I'm almost damn certain that Bill O'Reily is an actor) but this here is just so brain swelteringly stupid I can't see it being anything other then grabbing attention.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 01:30:53 PM
They dont make a distinction between us Americans when they bomb us or attack with IED's so why should we spare them the benefit of the doubt.
Wow.
Making the distinction is what separates us from them, otherwise we're no better than they are.
Just... wow.
For once, me and Crazy Rich agree on something, though I don't see this as a particularly divisive topic.
Islamophobic? Hardly...I just have intense dislike for the ones who bomb and kill innocent AMERICANS. I dislike Islam equally as much as the other mystical belief systems in the world. I also don't see any islamophobia in that video since they clearly bring up that it's the fundamentalist faction of Islam that is threatening to swarm Europe and the rest of the world.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 01:30:53 PM
They dont make a distinction between us Americans when they bomb us or attack with IED's so why should we spare them the benefit of the doubt.
You're not the brightest crayon in the box are you?
Creationists don't have any intellectual integrity when it comes to pushing their agenda in dragging science and education down to their childish level, so why should I try and be better then them while opposing them?
Same argument.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 11, 2013, 05:30:25 PM
Creationists don't have any intellectual integrity when it comes to pushing their agenda in dragging science and education down to their childish level, so why should I try and be better then them while opposing them?
Same argument.
Not sure if you where talking to me or posting in general...
Because I called Kirkland an idiot for saying we should indiscriminately kill people because they're part of one particular religion or belief system. That's something that's wrong no matter what you do or don't believe.
The condescension in the way you word your replies is palpable by the way.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Oct 11, 2013, 05:38:00 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 11, 2013, 05:30:25 PM
Creationists don't have any intellectual integrity when it comes to pushing their agenda in dragging science and education down to their childish level, so why should I try and be better then them while opposing them?
Same argument.
Not sure if you where talking to me or posting in general...
Because I called Kirkland an idiot for saying we should indiscriminately kill people because they're part of one particular religion or belief system. That's something that's wrong no matter what you do or don't believe.
The condescension in the way you word your replies is palpable by the way.
When did I ever say we(Americans) should indiscriminatlely kill all Muslims?If that's what was implied then I would like to clarify that USA and other countries should not allow them into our borders based on the actions of the radical Islamists. They can't be trusted yet.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 11, 2013, 05:30:25 PM
Creationists don't have any intellectual integrity when it comes to pushing their agenda in dragging science and education down to their childish level, so why should I try and be better then them while opposing them?
*than
Sorry, just teasing.
Quote from: BANE on Oct 11, 2013, 06:15:35 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 11, 2013, 05:30:25 PM
Creationists don't have any intellectual integrity when it comes to pushing their agenda in dragging science and education down to their childish level, so why should I try and be better then them while opposing them?
*than
Sorry, just teasing.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.sodahead.com%2Fprofiles%2F0%2F0%2F1%2F1%2F8%2F7%2F6%2F5%2F3%2Foh-you-93067263235.jpeg&hash=84d731186768abd9fb54e242ecaa4113574a20cc)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 04:51:13 PM
Islamophobic? Hardly...I just have intense dislike for the ones who bomb and kill innocent AMERICANS. I dislike Islam equally as much as the other mystical belief systems in the world. I also don't see any islamophobia in that video since they clearly bring up that it's the fundamentalist faction of Islam that is threatening to swarm Europe and the rest of the world.
Your posts have been very one-sided and full of fear, bunching all Muslims together into one unified bloodthirsty, swarming, brainwashed Jihadist mob that is about to take over the world.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 06:09:14 PM
When did I ever say we(Americans) should indiscriminatlely kill all Muslims?If that's what was implied then I would like to clarify that USA and other countries should not allow them into our borders based on the actions of the radical Islamists. They can't be trusted yet.
Who are these "they/them" you're talking about? Muslims in general or people with actual links / affiliation with Islamist groups and organizations?
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Oct 11, 2013, 05:38:00 PM
The condescension in the way you word your replies is palpable by the way.
I get like that when I talk about Creationists :P Hard to speak with any amount of respect for something you see as a societal cancer.
As for the 'Islamaphobia', Kirkland, I know you insist that your not against all Muslims, but you do say that they 'shouldn't be allowed in America' based on the actions of the extremists, because 'they can't be trusted'. Just curious, would you approve of such Zero Tolerance policies if the roles were reversed?
Plenty of US soldiers in Afghanistan have abused citizens and gotten away with it. Would you find it ethical that all US citizens be banned from Afghanistan based on the actions of these soldiers?
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 06:09:14 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Oct 11, 2013, 05:38:00 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 11, 2013, 05:30:25 PM
Creationists don't have any intellectual integrity when it comes to pushing their agenda in dragging science and education down to their childish level, so why should I try and be better then them while opposing them?
Same argument.
Not sure if you where talking to me or posting in general...
Because I called Kirkland an idiot for saying we should indiscriminately kill people because they're part of one particular religion or belief system. That's something that's wrong no matter what you do or don't believe.
The condescension in the way you word your replies is palpable by the way.
When did I ever say we(Americans) should indiscriminatlely kill all Muslims?If that's what was implied then I would like to clarify that USA and other countries should not allow them into our borders based on the actions of the radical Islamists. They can't be trusted yet.
who we need to be getting rid of is ignorant people who hate. They're the real problem and to me, I don't see any difference. You also forget that Muslim isn't a race, it's a religion. Anyone can be it. I have members of my family from all faiths, some that are Muslim, so I take offense to your comment and I find to be disrespectful. Your comment proves that religion is not the problem but hate and ignorance is.
Ugh, looks like we lost another great Youtube Atheist to the Freethoughtblogs Feel Machine.
Thunderfoots video on rape prevention has gotten the Skepchicks all up in arms, and one of them is Aronra's wife. So now Aronra is after Thunderfoot with strawmen arguments that a man of his intellect has no business throwing around :/
I really wish this hyper sensitive feminism debate would stop dividing Atheism.
How do you divide atheism?
Alone hit the nail on the head. The problem isn't religion, a persons beliefs or the fact they choose not to believe.
The problem is the varying degrees of hate, prejudice and discrimination that comes from an individual.
I think by some of their posts sabby and Kirkland have proved they're more of a problem with society then they think. On that note I think I'll leave the thread because the discussion seems to be going no where.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Oct 12, 2013, 12:56:29 AM
I think by some of their posts sabby and Kirkland have proved they're more of a problem with society then they think.
Excuse me? >.> So your just going to throw that out there and then flee? How about explaining yourself instead of trying to maintain moral high ground?
Your posts frequently sound condescending and patronising, which makes you just as bad as the people you're opposed to. Kirkland is talking about all muslims being evil, end of story, again making him no better than the fearmongers.
And seriously, how do you divide atheists. There's not really a grey area. If you don't believe in God, you're an atheist. That's it.
A condescending tone makes me an equal problem to a tax free criminal organization that wants to destroy education. Gotcha. I won't apologize for the tone, and if you really find it such an obstacle that I speak down to idiots who refuse to take part in a fair and productive discourse (Young Earth Creationists, Demonologists and the like) then I'd say you have not only a very thin skin, but an unrealistic expectation of these kinds of people to debate on equal ground.
As for dividing Atheists, correct, you cannot divide them on the core question of God. However, there are topics that many, many Atheists find themselves involved in. It's hard to be actively interested in topics like Religion and politics and not find yourself having some kind of opinions in things like sexism. So many Atheists have overlapping social/political interests.
Over the last year or so, feminism has been one of those topics. It's been incredibly divisive because of how groups like Skepchick and Atheism+ have worded themselves, making it sound as if not prescribing to their views on the issue makes you a rape apologist. It's been fun to watch at times, but it is starting to grate on me, since it's poisoning the conventions as well, which are extremely important right now with trying to legitimize Atheism as a political/social movement.
So people who don't believe in God, arguing over whose interpretation of how to live without God is correct.
Yeah, that doesn't sound anything like religion.
Your not even really trying to make it sound like your reading my posts, are you? Start an argument on a legitimate disagreement, don't make one up please.
How have I made up a disagreement? Atheism doesn't tell you how to live your life. Religion does. Any disagreement these groups have has nothing to do with atheism, it's just people's opinions causing shit about the same shit they'd be causing problems for regardless of whether they believed in God or not.
Saying atheists are "divided" is f**king asinine -- worse, that there are atheists who agree. Atheist groups arguing over whose atheist group is better is hardly a step up from religious groups bitching about who's "right".
The only difference is people haven't started killing each other over it.
Yet.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 12, 2013, 02:22:53 AM
very thin skin
This is very ironic coming from you. :laugh:
As I've said, organized Atheism groups have adopted these topics. That's where the division is happen. Correct, they are not Atheist topics, but they are definitely dividing those Atheists who are politically/socially active.
We can debate on how silly that is all we want, and I think we would share some opinions there, but it doesn't change the fact it's happening, and at a very delicate time.
And you talk down on religious people for being stupid. How is this any more intelligent ... ?
Once again, you mistake criticism for Religious belief as criticism of the person who holds that belief. Some beliefs are unquestionably stupid, and passionate defense of them is equally stupid.
I don't just dismiss all Theists as idiots :P Just the ones who demonstrate to me that they are idiots.
And like I said, how is atheist groups "dividing" themselves over things that have nothing to do with atheism intelligent?
Did I defend it as intelligent?
Edit: I don't find the way the discussions have been carried out to be intelligent, but I don't see a problem with Atheist organizations adopting social and political topics for discussion. I'm not sure how anyone could have an issue with that. It would be like getting upset at a Church for advocating GLBT rights because 'it has nothing to do with God'
Except GLBT rights do have something to do with God (The whole Leviticus thing).
Also, why are there even atheist organisations? Why are there atheist groups? Creating an organisation around not believing in something -- and then fighting over whose idea of how to live while not believing -- as has been pointed out many times, really doesn't sound that much different to religious groups.
Religion tells you how to live your life, atheism doesn't. so why are there "divides" of people disagreeing how to live an atheist life?
You keep harping on that like Atheists are not entitled to say anything other then 'We don't believe in God'. These are just groups that try and keep Church and State separate and try and promote secularism.
Comparing Atheist organizations to a Religion because 'they have opinions' is just stupid.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 12, 2013, 01:04:15 AM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Oct 12, 2013, 12:56:29 AM
I think by some of their posts sabby and Kirkland have proved they're more of a problem with society then they think.
Excuse me? >.> So your just going to throw that out there and then flee? How about explaining yourself instead of trying to maintain moral high ground?
Lets be honest here, you made up your mind about how you where going to talk to me when I originally posted that I was a Catholic. That goes for probably all the members in the thread who stated they have religion.
That's being prejudice.
You talk down to the people on here who have stated they come from a religion as if they're preaching it to you. You're calling them idiots because they basically have a differing opinion than you and that's just stupid. You come off as a dick in most of your posts when the people you're talking down to aren't doing anything to deserve it, other than the fact that they have religion.
If you're an Atheist that's awesome, good for you, you really are one unique snowflake, but Don't jump on someone who has religion an label them an idiot. You don't know them personally, you don't know their reasons, and who are you to judge them?
That's my biggest problem with you and this thread. You're prejudice against people who have religion, you have a superiority complex and you may or may not be looking for attention.
I'm done trying to prove any sort of point to you because you aren't gonna see it and if you do you'll just ignore it like the past point's I've made, you'll play the superiority card, or you'll whine up a storm. Either way we'll get no where and talk about basically nothing for a few more posts so why bother.
Since I know it will just eat away at you if I don't read what ever you say to all this I promise you that I will, but I'm not going to reply. What ever interactions we have in other threads I hope will go better than they have in this one.
You really think I live for your victim complex?
Crying to me that your being oppressed won't work. I don't operate on or respond to emotional displays like that. I only respond to the words people write, and if I seem unimpressed with you, it's not because I've dismissed you for being Catholic, it's that I find no merit in your posts.
As you've already dismissed my response, I'm sure any attempt to change your mind would be pointless. You're going to believe your being victimized regardless, so I'm simply going to end it here. But I do take issue with this.
QuoteSince I know it will just eat away at you if I don't read what ever you say to all this I promise you that I will
I personally can't stand when people leave like this, just boldly claiming either the moral or mature high ground and then f**king off uncontested. Behaviour like that is what changes the way I treat someone, not what they believe. Respond, don't respond, I don't care, you really don't interest me as much as you think you do.
And with that, I think I'm done for the day.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 12, 2013, 06:14:41 AM
These are just groups that try and keep Church and State separate and try and promote secularism.
And, apparently, how to live your lives -- which leads to "divisions".
Atheist arguing over how to live life is just like I said earlier about people using religion as a disguise to push their own personal agenda. I've seen it with atheism, wicca, and even amongst people in CoS. Hell even Thelemic organizations had this issue.
Yes, it sucks to have someone dismiss your ideas flat out but I've gotten used to it. Now that I'm older and have lived some life I see that even if there's opposing views I'd rather it be this way then all of us believing the same thing and/or just going along with everyone else. Opposition can help define yourself. If I had no one to challenge me I wouldn't be who I am today. Yes it sucks to have someone try and slam your own ideas but it does help build character to have it happen.
I also don't know if we will ever stop being judgmental. It's kept humans alive for a long time. If Native Americans had been more judging maybe they wouldn't have all the bad things happen to them? In the early days of man, if a group came across some other person and they seemed different chances are this loner would be dead. That's an extreme circumstance but a group that shares ideas and culture will traditionally be weary of others who act/think differently.
I'm not saying we shouldn't work toward becoming more open minded and pooling our minds and resources rather than having division. IMO we HAVE TO work together to get out of the many quagmires we as a global community have gotten ourselves in. I suppose I wish we wouldn't argue as to whom is right and start agreeing to work together towards common goals.
Here on this forum I find it interesting to see how so many people think so differently yet we all dig Alien/Predator. I guess that is why these movie monsters are so cool isn't it?
]http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm] (http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm)
I saw this link on the "in the news" forum here. Im interested to see what comes of this.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 01:30:53 PMFor every peaceful muslim there's more fundie terrorists just waiting to kill innocent people.
Before I respond, I have to ask out of respect: have you had someone close to you killed by a Islamic terrorist?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2013, 02:38:43 AM
How have I made up a disagreement? Atheism doesn't tell you how to live your life. Religion does. Any disagreement these groups have has nothing to do with atheism, it's just people's opinions causing shit about the same shit they'd be causing problems for regardless of whether they believed in God or not.
Saying atheists are "divided" is f**king asinine -- worse, that there are atheists who agree. Atheist groups arguing over whose atheist group is better is hardly a step up from religious groups bitching about who's "right".
The only difference is people haven't started killing each other over it.
Yet.
And I'm reminded of that awesome South Park episode that detailed almost the same scenario...Groups of atheist fighting against each other when religion has been vanquished is a possible outcome.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Oct 12, 2013, 05:01:37 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 01:30:53 PMFor every peaceful muslim there's more fundie terrorists just waiting to kill innocent people.
Before I respond, I have to ask out of respect: have you had someone close to you killed by a Islamic terrorist?
Somehow I doubt it.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Oct 12, 2013, 05:01:37 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 01:30:53 PMFor every peaceful muslim there's more fundie terrorists just waiting to kill innocent people.
Before I respond, I have to ask out of respect: have you had someone close to you killed by a Islamic terrorist?
No but my home city of Boston was attacked and innocent AMERICANS were killed again. A good enough reason in my opinion to have a disparaging view of extremist Islam and in general.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2013, 02:38:43 AM
Saying atheists are "divided" is f**king asinine
Probably should have been more clear. Atheist 'groups' are divided, and because they are the ones that organize the conventions, it effects all Atheists who want to attend those. The feminism groups that have attached themselves to it are more interested in offensive t-shirt rules and discussing rape culture then anything to do with Atheism, and rebranding it as 'our moral responsibility'. It's beyond ridiculous.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 15, 2013, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2013, 02:38:43 AM
Saying atheists are "divided" is f**king asinine
Probably should have been more clear. Atheist 'groups' are divided, and because they are the ones that organize the conventions, it effects all Atheists who want to attend those. The feminism groups that have attached themselves to it are more interested in offensive t-shirt rules and discussing rape culture then anything to do with Atheism, and rebranding it as 'our moral responsibility'. It's beyond ridiculous.
I think think of several atheist factions at this time.
1. The hardline(According to KirklandSignature)-Dawkins,Attenborough, Hitchens(RIP)
2. The Avant Gardists/entertainers-Penn&Teller,Stapleton,Residents,Fanni Tutti,Carlin
3. Feministas
4. The Libertarians/Scientists- Degrasse-Tyson, Maher, Sagan(RIP),Dennett
5. Brights Movement
6. Cato Institute
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 15, 2013, 06:17:19 PMI think think of several atheist factions at this time.
1. The hardline(According to KirklandSignature)-Dawkins,Attenborough, Hitchens(RIP)
2. The Avant Gardists/entertainers-Penn&Teller,Stapleton,Residents,Fanni Tutti,Carlin
3. Feministas
4. The Libertarians/Scientists- Degrasse-Tyson, Maher, Sagan(RIP),Dennett
5. Brights Movement
6. Cato Institute
That's nice, but can you explain how they conflict with each other and other atheist "factions"?
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 15, 2013, 08:01:19 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 15, 2013, 06:17:19 PMI think think of several atheist factions at this time.
1. The hardline(According to KirklandSignature)-Dawkins,Attenborough, Hitchens(RIP)
2. The Avant Gardists/entertainers-Penn&Teller,Stapleton,Residents,Fanni Tutti,Carlin
3. Feministas
4. The Libertarians/Scientists- Degrasse-Tyson, Maher, Sagan(RIP),Dennett
5. Brights Movement
6. Cato Institute
That's nice, but can you explain how they conflict with each other and other atheist "factions"?
1. Hardliners want religion to "go away" no matter what and could be classifed as militant atheists.
2. The Avant Gardists are the peaceful/pacifist faction and promote the atheist way with their artistical outlets.
3. Feminista atheists are also militant but have a "girl-power" twist to it, conflicts with the two above due to their irrational methos.
4. The smartie Libertarian/scientist atheists seek to inform others through science and showcasing the awesomeness of science.
5&6 are think tanks in practice but are hardcore in preaching the values of libertarianism. Quite turn-offish in terms of appealing to rational folks.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 15, 2013, 08:43:53 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 15, 2013, 08:01:19 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 15, 2013, 06:17:19 PMI think think of several atheist factions at this time.
1. The hardline(According to KirklandSignature)-Dawkins,Attenborough, Hitchens(RIP)
2. The Avant Gardists/entertainers-Penn&Teller,Stapleton,Residents,Fanni Tutti,Carlin
3. Feministas
4. The Libertarians/Scientists- Degrasse-Tyson, Maher, Sagan(RIP),Dennett
5. Brights Movement
6. Cato Institute
That's nice, but can you explain how they conflict with each other and other atheist "factions"?
1. Hardliners want religion to "go away" no matter what and could be classifed as militant atheists.
2. The Avant Gardists are the peaceful/pacifist faction and promote the atheist way with their artistical outlets.
3. Feminista atheists are also militant but have a "girl-power" twist to it, conflicts with the two above due to their irrational methos.
4. The smartie Libertarian/scientist atheists seek to inform others through science and showcasing the awesomeness of science.
5&6 are think tanks in practice but are hardcore in preaching the values of libertarianism. Quite turn-offish in terms of appealing to rational folks.
So...you told me how they differ from each other (something I already knew), but you didn't say how they conflict with each other.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 15, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Oct 12, 2013, 05:01:37 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 01:30:53 PMFor every peaceful muslim there's more fundie terrorists just waiting to kill innocent people.
Before I respond, I have to ask out of respect: have you had someone close to you killed by a Islamic terrorist?
No but my home city of Boston was attacked and innocent AMERICANS were killed again. A good enough reason in my opinion to have a disparaging view of extremist Islam and in general.
go red my comment I made two pages back.
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Oct 15, 2013, 11:37:29 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 15, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Oct 12, 2013, 05:01:37 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 01:30:53 PMFor every peaceful muslim there's more fundie terrorists just waiting to kill innocent people.
Before I respond, I have to ask out of respect: have you had someone close to you killed by a Islamic terrorist?
No but my home city of Boston was attacked and innocent AMERICANS were killed again. A good enough reason in my opinion to have a disparaging view of extremist Islam and in general.
go red my comment I made two pages back.
I don't understand the relevance of colours to atheism.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Oct 15, 2013, 11:52:45 PM
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Oct 15, 2013, 11:37:29 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 15, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Oct 12, 2013, 05:01:37 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 11, 2013, 01:30:53 PMFor every peaceful muslim there's more fundie terrorists just waiting to kill innocent people.
Before I respond, I have to ask out of respect: have you had someone close to you killed by a Islamic terrorist?
No but my home city of Boston was attacked and innocent AMERICANS were killed again. A good enough reason in my opinion to have a disparaging view of extremist Islam and in general.
go red my comment I made two pages back.
I don't understand the relevance of colours to atheism.
It has everything to do with it. Everything.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F4%2F43%2FRed_flag.svg&hash=4108fd39378bf741e71f2af91ec044ba033625ce)
I found God guys
Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2013, 02:38:43 AM
Saying atheists are "divided" is f**king asinine
.
But they are, in a way. Atheism+ which was mentioned some pages ago, created a huge kerfuffle in the atheist community when it was introduced.
Unholier than thou athesists looking down their noses at moderate atheists. Such snobs.
I don't consider myself an atheist, I consider myself normal. No child is born believing in any god, and we don't call newborns atheists do we?
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 15, 2013, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 15, 2013, 08:43:53 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 15, 2013, 08:01:19 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 15, 2013, 06:17:19 PMI think think of several atheist factions at this time.
1. The hardline(According to KirklandSignature)-Dawkins,Attenborough, Hitchens(RIP)
2. The Avant Gardists/entertainers-Penn&Teller,Stapleton,Residents,Fanni Tutti,Carlin
3. Feministas
4. The Libertarians/Scientists- Degrasse-Tyson, Maher, Sagan(RIP),Dennett
5. Brights Movement
6. Cato Institute
That's nice, but can you explain how they conflict with each other and other atheist "factions"?
1. Hardliners want religion to "go away" no matter what and could be classifed as militant atheists.
2. The Avant Gardists are the peaceful/pacifist faction and promote the atheist way with their artistical outlets.
3. Feminista atheists are also militant but have a "girl-power" twist to it, conflicts with the two above due to their irrational methos.
4. The smartie Libertarian/scientist atheists seek to inform others through science and showcasing the awesomeness of science.
5&6 are think tanks in practice but are hardcore in preaching the values of libertarianism. Quite turn-offish in terms of appealing to rational folks.
So...you told me how they differ from each other (something I already knew), but you didn't say how they conflict with each other.
They each have varying degrees of how they promote the atheist way;the hard liners are all about being up in your face about it while explaining how negative religion is. The scientist or smartypants atheists are more passive and calmly explain in detail why a belief is foolish.
I think this is where a lot of the confusion comes from. There is no 'Atheist way'. Atheism says one thing and one thing only.
What most Atheists and even sensible Theists (though I find the latter kind of contradictory) try and promote are concepts like Rationalism and Humanism. And Sil and SM are partly correct in that proponents of these have their own ideas on how to do this and may disagree with each other.
Quote from: samoht on Oct 16, 2013, 01:36:58 AM
I don't consider myself an atheist, I consider myself normal. No child is born believing in any god, and we don't call newborns atheists do we?
Depends. Is it lack of belief that makes an Atheist or rejection of the God claim? Plenty of dictionaries have differing definitions, so it can be tricky.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 16, 2013, 02:18:05 AM
Quote from: samoht on Oct 16, 2013, 01:36:58 AM
I don't consider myself an atheist, I consider myself normal. No child is born believing in any god, and we don't call newborns atheists do we?
Depends. Is it lack of belief that makes an Atheist or rejection of the God claim? Plenty of dictionaries have differing definitions, so it can be tricky.
Both and neither. It depends upon their exposure to the concept of god. If all children were suddenly raised without the concept of god, non of them would believe in Jesus our lord and saviour. Some of them however may abstractly contrive their own version of a "higher being" as a means of explaining the universe to themselves.
It is safe to say that both ignorance and the yearning for answers is what created religion. It was then escalated and spread as a means governing people. "Follow our rules and you go to heaven. Disobey our rules and you burn in hell." It's a way of controlling people through their superstition. Various religions were sculpted and changed to suit the people with the power.
Correct. I consider Atheism to come in levels. A newborn baby would just be a pure Atheist. Never even heard of the stuff. Where as someone whose had a particular God explained to them and rejects that claim is an informed Atheist. Someone who rejects the very concept of a higher being all together is a rational Atheist.
One doesn't know, one rejects, one deduces.
It's so stupid. Atheism is not believing in God. How do you f**k up something that simple?
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 16, 2013, 01:59:47 AMThey each have varying degrees of how they promote the atheist way;the hard liners are all about being up in your face about it while explaining how negative religion is. The scientist or smartypants atheists are more passive and calmly explain in detail why a belief is foolish.
Again, you fail to show conflict between these groups.
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 16, 2013, 12:55:33 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 16, 2013, 01:59:47 AMThey each have varying degrees of how they promote the atheist way;the hard liners are all about being up in your face about it while explaining how negative religion is. The scientist or smartypants atheists are more passive and calmly explain in detail why a belief is foolish.
Again, you fail to show conflict between these groups.
The main conflict is the differing levels of promoting atheism. One end of the spectrum is hardline/aggressive and the other is passive. For instance, Dawkins is more known for his hardline atheistic beliefs which overshadow his career as an evolutionary biologist.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 16, 2013, 01:32:14 PMThe main conflict is the differing levels of promoting atheism. One end of the spectrum is hardline/aggressive and the other is passive. For instance, Dawkins is more known for his hardline atheistic beliefs which overshadow his career as an evolutionary biologist.
You're not showing how one group is getting in the way of another. Sure, there is infighting amongst Xtians and amongst Muslims, but where is there conflict like, say, the "Avant-Gardists" hindering the Cato Institute?
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 16, 2013, 02:49:21 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 16, 2013, 01:32:14 PMThe main conflict is the differing levels of promoting atheism. One end of the spectrum is hardline/aggressive and the other is passive. For instance, Dawkins is more known for his hardline atheistic beliefs which overshadow his career as an evolutionary biologist.
You're not showing how one group is getting in the way of another. Sure, there is infighting amongst Xtians and amongst Muslims, but where is there conflict like, say, the "Avant-Gardists" hindering the Cato Institute?
There isn't a public conflict between the different atheist groups yet. Being a fellow of the institute does mark you off as a more progressive type in my opinion but I don't know of any active feuding between the various cliques. As religion dwindles and social/cultural problems continue to arise, I can see some groups trying to place blame on another if world issues remain.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 16, 2013, 04:49:08 PMThere isn't a public conflict between the different atheist groups yet. Being a fellow of the institute does mark you off as a more progressive type in my opinion but I don't know of any active feuding between the various cliques. As religion dwindles and social/cultural problems continue to arise, I can see some groups trying to place blame on another if world issues remain.
So, there is no conflict amongst the atheist "factions".
Mal, if I may chime in here? According to thunderf00t, a popular atheist figure who regularly posts on YouTube, there is. He takes issue with the movement known as Atheism+ because he feels atheism is being hijacked by PCs who have lost sight of what atheism is about at a basic level: not believing in God.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 16, 2013, 05:54:18 PM
Mal, if I may chime in here? According to thunderf00t, a popular atheist figure who regularly posts on YouTube, there is. He takes issue with the movement known as Atheism+ because he feels atheism is being hijacked by PCs who have lost sight of what atheism is about at a basic level: not believing in God.
thunderp00f is kinda unfocused himself in that department.
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 16, 2013, 05:19:15 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 16, 2013, 04:49:08 PMThere isn't a public conflict between the different atheist groups yet. Being a fellow of the institute does mark you off as a more progressive type in my opinion but I don't know of any active feuding between the various cliques. As religion dwindles and social/cultural problems continue to arise, I can see some groups trying to place blame on another if world issues remain.
So, there is no conflict amongst the atheist "factions".
Atheism isn't a one size fits all mentality in my opinion. The beauty of it is that it can be molded to one persons rational beliefs as they see fit with the unifying lack of belief in mythological deities. There is bound to be conflict at some point since it's only a matter of time before governments identify atheists as terrorists or enemies of the state; espeically those that still retain a non-secular infrastructure.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 16, 2013, 07:15:21 PMAtheism isn't a one size fits all mentality in my opinion. The beauty of it is that it can be molded to one persons rational beliefs as they see fit with the unifying lack of belief in mythological deities.
As
Doom said earlier, atheism is nothing more than not believing in god. So, it's pretty much "one-size-fits-all" to non-believers.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 16, 2013, 07:15:21 PMThere is bound to be conflict at some point since it's only a matter of time before governments identify atheists as terrorists or enemies of the state; espeically those that still retain a non-secular infrastructure.
It's been that way for millennia.
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 16, 2013, 07:37:26 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 16, 2013, 07:15:21 PMAtheism isn't a one size fits all mentality in my opinion. The beauty of it is that it can be molded to one persons rational beliefs as they see fit with the unifying lack of belief in mythological deities.
As Doom said earlier, atheism is nothing more than not believing in god. So, it's pretty much "one-size-fits-all" to non-believers.
But the point I'm making is that it's how you go about in professing your non-belief. Atheism has many flavors.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 16, 2013, 08:38:16 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 16, 2013, 07:37:26 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 16, 2013, 07:15:21 PMAtheism isn't a one size fits all mentality in my opinion. The beauty of it is that it can be molded to one persons rational beliefs as they see fit with the unifying lack of belief in mythological deities.
As Doom said earlier, atheism is nothing more than not believing in god. So, it's pretty much "one-size-fits-all" to non-believers.
But the point I'm making is that it's how you go about in professing your non-belief. Atheism has many flavors.
There is still only one "atheism", unless you want to include a specific religious group and call them atheists for not believing in gods beyond their belief system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm7L_suZ1IY# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm7L_suZ1IY#)
The way he sums up Christianity in the beginning was fantastic.
QuoteLike an invisible wizard who created the world by magic, and magically planted evidence to indicate that he had nothing to do with it, despite wanting everyone to believe he did, sacrificed himself to himself because even though he's omnipotent this was the only way he could create a loophole in his OWN rules that prevented him from forgiving people that he loves so that now instead he has his own permission to not condemn them to eternal torture.
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 16, 2013, 06:55:36 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 16, 2013, 05:54:18 PM
Mal, if I may chime in here? According to thunderf00t, a popular atheist figure who regularly posts on YouTube, there is. He takes issue with the movement known as Atheism+ because he feels atheism is being hijacked by PCs who have lost sight of what atheism is about at a basic level: not believing in God.
thunderp00f is kinda unfocused himself in that department.
I agree with him though. Why is an ideology that is supposed to be about not believing in God suddenly becoming about social issues? It's stupid.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 17, 2013, 12:10:30 PMI agree with him though. Why is an ideology that is supposed to be about not believing in God suddenly becoming about social issues? It's stupid.
If by "social issues" you mean thunderp00t's attack on other atheists, it's simply his railing against not being allowed to sit at the grown-ups table. If you mean all over, it's simply a group of people wanting religion taken out of non-religious sectors.
I was referring to Rebecca Watson's crusade against perceived sexual harassment at atheist conferences simply because one man asked her in an elevator to share a cup of coffee with him.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 17, 2013, 02:15:55 PMI was referring to Rebecca Watson's crusade against perceived sexual harassment at atheist conferences simply because one man asked her in an elevator to share a cup of coffee with him.
That's about feminism, not atheism.
But it's the reason why Atheism+ was born. Her campaign for anti-harassment policies at atheist conferences led to it.
AFAIC, it has nothing to do with atheism. It's no different than a Xtian feminist going after other Xtians. This isn't one group of atheists telling another group of atheists how not to believe, the way Xtians, Muslims, and other religions have various sects telling each other that they are the true followers of God.
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 17, 2013, 03:06:16 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 17, 2013, 02:15:55 PMI was referring to Rebecca Watson's crusade against perceived sexual harassment at atheist conferences simply because one man asked her in an elevator to share a cup of coffee with him.
That's about feminism, not atheism.
...It doesn't have to do with feminism either, it's just another of Doomrulz post in his war against "Feninism!" (...or more like his quest to bunch mainstream majority equal rights & opportuonity feminists together with radical feminists extremists, aka feminazis). MRG ("Men's Rights Group" or whatever they call themselves) is the only form of equal rights and liberties movement in this feminized, feminazi-run, "misandric", anti-male, woman dominated, matriarcal culture and world we're living in...
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 17, 2013, 07:20:21 PM
AFAIC, it has nothing to do with atheism. It's no different than a Xtian feminist going after other Xtians. This isn't one group of atheists telling another group of atheists how not to believe, the way Xtians, Muslims, and other religions have various sects telling each other that they are the true followers of God.
Fair enough. It just seems as though they're hijacking the movement and tacking something onto it that didn't need to be there in the first place. PZ Meyers isn't helping either. Neither is Rebecca Watson, the moron who started the whole fiasco and identifies as a feminist, I might add.
RARRR!!! DAMN THOSE BITCHES WHO DON"T WANNA SUCK ME OFF!!!!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.memegenerator.net%2Finstances%2F400x%2F22098400.jpg&hash=d70e52c5fb8edb676bcabeeefc11f53c1281c0e7)
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Oct 17, 2013, 07:56:30 PM
it's just another of Doomrulz post in his war against "Feninism!" (...or more like his quest to bunch mainstream majority equal rights & opportuonity feminists together with radical feminists extremists, aka feminazis).
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Funsubject.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F12%2Fno_girls_allowed.gif%3Fw%3D500&hash=f5d12e73214b11e1c1785a99565f1bf8048a9fac)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnarwhaler.com%2Foriginal%2Fed%2Fr%2Fwhat-is-going-on-in-this-thread-spiderman-edrkKb.jpg&hash=6f3bd9dafc49f3e55fba6e4b8e770730dc66220b)
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Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 17, 2013, 10:49:06 PM
PZ Meyers isn't helping either. Neither is Rebecca Watson, the moron who started the whole fiasco and identifies as a feminist, I might add.
Those people are not feminists. Anyone who can seriously say shit like 'the male brain is just a female brain that's been damaged by testosterone', or thinks men aren't allowed to discuss rape (ironic, as the one criticizing those men is also a man) doesn't get to say they're concerned with equality.
They're Feminine Supremacist, not Feminists.
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 18, 2013, 12:51:48 AMThey're Feminine Supremacist, not Feminists.
Doom's kinda gal.
;)
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 18, 2013, 12:51:48 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Oct 17, 2013, 10:49:06 PM
PZ Meyers isn't helping either. Neither is Rebecca Watson, the moron who started the whole fiasco and identifies as a feminist, I might add.
Those people are not feminists. Anyone who can seriously say shit like 'the male brain is just a female brain that's been damaged by testosterone'
Which isn't even true. It's Estrogen that does the damage. ;)
Seriously.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Oct 16, 2013, 01:59:47 AM
They each have varying degrees of how they promote the atheist way
Reading this again, I zoomed in so I could actually read your signature. I think you need to have a close read of both the sig and your quote, as they kind of clash with each other.
Quote from: maledoro on Oct 19, 2013, 01:40:44 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 18, 2013, 12:51:48 AMThey're Feminine Supremacist, not Feminists.
Doom's kinda gal.
;)
Hey, Rebecca can exercise bedroom supremacy over me any day of the week ;D
That's about as far as the chain from the kitchen reaches, eh?
All this pseudo-intellectualism man.
Quote from: SM on Oct 21, 2013, 10:30:30 PM
That's about as far as the chain from the kitchen reaches, eh?
Well it's a pretty small apartment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdwOgc-lR_w#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdwOgc-lR_w#ws)
Quote from: Sabby on Nov 30, 2013, 07:39:30 AM
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/197tzntgso0l6gif/ku-xlarge.gif (http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/197tzntgso0l6gif/ku-xlarge.gif)
So, how this is relevant to the thread?
Shit, pasted wrong link (as I often do). Fixing now.
Atheism is cool.
I only resent it when they get on a high horse and think ther're smarter then everbody else for it.
And that anyone who believes in god is an idiot.
I could probably point out a few idiotic things that always seem to go hand in hand with atheism.
But thats not nice.
And I dont think that I'm better then anyone else.
That was very profound, RobThom. Well worth digging up a thread that's been dead for almost four months.
Considering the topic has appeared in the dream thread recently, I'd love to see a revival here.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 21, 2014, 12:03:52 PM
Considering the topic has appeared in the dream thread recently, I'd love to see a revival here.
The future of atheism lies in the youth. It always pleases me to see young children of close friends see the light and renounce ties to organized religion. Since religionist brainwashing starts at a very young age, it makes me smile to hear of parents who allow their offspring to choose a more brighter path in reasoning and logic. I can remember being forced to go to church when I was a child and how it created a life-long rift between my close family and it didn't get any better when I came out. No one likes gay atheists LOL.
Kirkland, I have a question for you, continuing from a disagreement we had a few pages back. We've had some differences on opinion before, and there was one where what you were saying was completely contradictory to a signature you had at the time.
You don't have it any more, but I'm curious if you saw that and have had time to think on it.
Basically, your signature claimed that an Atheist was only someone who disbelieved God, and nothing more, but you were claiming at the time that there was an 'Atheist way' or a message behind Atheism.
Have you reflected on that at all since then?
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 21, 2014, 01:15:42 PM
Kirkland, I have a question for you, continuing from a disagreement we had a few pages back. We've had some differences on opinion before, and there was one where what you were saying was completely contradictory to a signature you had at the time.
You don't have it any more, but I'm curious if you saw that and have had time to think on it.
Basically, your signature claimed that an Atheist was only someone who disbelieved God, and nothing more, but you were claiming at the time that there was an 'Atheist way' or a message behind Atheism.
Have you reflected on that at all since then?
I recall that signature and did realize that it conflicted with my overall personal opinion and thoughts on what atheism means to me. Depending on my overall mood and global events, I tend to float between different shades of atheism. The Boston marathon attack had a very profound effect on me and lead to the opinion that organized religion is mostly evil and must be eliminated if humans are to progress socially and culturally. Whereas before I might of professed that atheism is only expression of non-belief in mystical deities; I have now come to the conclusion that there is a certain humanist element that can unite all non-believers.
It goes beyond just denying the existence of deities and entails a human responsibility to spread the seeds of atheism to future generations in an effort to curb the rising tide of irrationality and illogic.
I'm glad you saw the contradiction and fixed it, though I still think you are putting too many things under the Atheism umbrella. I think you need to look at Humanism and Secularism. Atheism isn't these two things, but they are so closely bound that people can confuse them all for one thing.
Humanism and Secularism actually do fit with what your saying, where as Atheism is merely a stance on a question. It has no position on anything other then the question of God.
I'm not sure whats so profound about not believing in anything,
other then just hating Christians.
I agree with not believing in anything,
but just as an excuse to hate Christians isn't worthy.
Maybe you hate Christians because some extremest hated you,
but becoming the same only makes you the same.
Despite the lib media left or right agenda,
there are people who consider what they do and their place in infinity.
If someone's a Christian and comdemns Atheists to hell based solely on their Atheism, they're f**king idiots.
If an Atheist observes Christians and calls them sheep or idiots based on their beliefs, they're a judgmental self-righteous prick who needs to get the f**k off their high horse and accept the fact that some people have faith no matter what.
/thread
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Mar 22, 2014, 11:27:58 PM
If someone's a Christian and comdemns Atheists to hell based solely on their Atheism, they're f**king idiots.
/thread
I suppose (but I cant guarantee), that I wouldn't take that personally because I dont believe in their perspective.
What do I care being judged by the God of them.
Unless it stops me from being me, then maybe I'm irritated.
But in that instance let me ask you something,
was murika built on atheist values?
What successful nations have been built on Atheist values?
Are we sure that Atheist values are worth a dang,
except in the shadow of a Christian nation that enables them?
Are there Atheists in Israel?
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 22, 2014, 11:45:47 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Mar 22, 2014, 11:27:58 PM
If someone's a Christian and comdemns Atheists to hell based solely on their Atheism, they're f**king idiots.
/thread
I suppose (but I cant guarantee), that I wouldn't take that personally because I dont believe in their perspective.
What do I care being judged by the God of them.
Unless it stops me from being me, then maybe I'm irritated.
But in that instance let me ask you something,
was murika built on atheist values?
What successful nations have been built on Atheist values?
Are we sure that Atheist values are worth a dang,
except in the shadow of a Christian nation that enables them?
Are there Atheists in Israel?
Refer to the post above.
The "...they're f**king idiots" thing?
I mostly disregarding any thing you said after that.
Thats the end of the conversation right?
Or are you referring to the atheism thing allegedly being humanism or secularism.
That sounds like a bunch of hippie tribalism.
So you dont believe in god?
Is that the point?
But you believe in hindu stuff.
(Which I have no problem with.)
It sounds like the lib agenda being a rival to the christian agenda.
I'll Ask you one more time,
which one of these has created nations,
And which one kind of lurks in the background?
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 23, 2014, 12:29:20 AM
I'll Ask you one more time,
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.overclock.net%2Fa%2Fa9%2F600x464px-LL-a9f33f8e_watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png&hash=2a072e10895f4ca20c0ce531d85690bc23a5bf7c)
wut
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Mar 23, 2014, 12:40:48 AM
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 23, 2014, 12:29:20 AM
I'll Ask you one more time,
http://cdn.overclock.net/a/a9/600x464px-LL-a9f33f8e_watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png
I pooped my pants when I saw the Black guy!
Are you proud of yourself?!
Will you be paying for my laundry bill?!
pseudo-intellectualism maaaaaaan
Honestly I cant be bothered whether you believe in the lord or not.
Some people call it proselytising,
and their pretty good excuse it they think that they're saving you from yourself.
Thats one part of Christianity I dont agree with.
Leave everyone to their own designs!
As long as they earn their own living.
I dont want people who dont earn their own keep in my religion!
But it was kind of a spready thing back in the day.
Let the libs have that one.
I dont want them.
I'll take people with a Christian work ethic.
which lord
lord stark?
Well I believe in the Christian lord,
there are other ones for other peoples.
Sometimes I wonder whether they are all the same lord, with a name to suit the people...
But that doesn't matter to me.
I know which one is mine.
Lannister are you then?
I dont know to much about lannister.
Is he a Christian?
Do you believe in a moral structure?
If so,
what is your morality based on?
How do you know the difference between right and wrong?
The Lannisters are of the Faith of Seven I believe.
I would think most (if not all) people believe in a moral structure. My own morality isn't based on a old book written by people and later edited by other people. If thats what your asking :p It's not really based on anything but, my own views. Which are based on the way I was raised and reading and all that jazz.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Mar 23, 2014, 01:54:10 AM
... It's not really based on anything ...
Think about that.
Where do you live?
Did you grow up in an English speaking country?
Most English territory is Christianity/Christian morality based.
If you're an asian it might be based on other gods,
but what is the morality based on?
Air?
;)
Air has a lot to teach us.
But no, I am aware there are Christian undertones in my own morality.
As well as Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist.
A lot of the morality that people find in one religion are in, well, all of them.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Mar 23, 2014, 02:10:54 AM
A lot of the morality that people find in one religion are in, well, all of them.
I agree with you they are found in many.
But without that weird thing called religion,
what really separates us from biting, and clawing without concern for the victim?
Just because we decided to care?
Just admit it lonespoon you are a godless heathen.
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 23, 2014, 02:13:59 AM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Mar 23, 2014, 02:10:54 AM
A lot of the morality that people find in one religion are in, well, all of them.
I agree with you they are found in many.
But without that weird thing called religion,
what really separates us from biting, and clawing without concern for the victim?
Just because we decided to care?
Dat would be sentientism my dear.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 23, 2014, 02:14:23 AM
Just admit it lonespoon you are a godless heathen.
you caught me
At least I'm a loveable godless heathen. ;D
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 23, 2014, 02:14:23 AM
Just admit it lonespoon you are a godless heathen.
He's not the only one without something to answer for.
Its a sinner dichotomy to point your finger and say he's the one.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Mar 23, 2014, 02:16:37 AM
Dat would be sentientism my dear.
Is sentiment similar to morality?
Is it the same thing?
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 23, 2014, 02:18:10 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 23, 2014, 02:14:23 AM
Just admit it lonespoon you are a godless heathen.
He's not the only one without something to answer for.
Its a sinner dichotomy to point your finger and say he's the one.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Mar 23, 2014, 02:16:37 AM
Dat would be sentientism my dear.
Is sentiment similar to morality?
Is it the same thing?
I mean, being sentient is why we care.
So you say sentietism?
(Thats a word? Spell check dont say so)
So I'm going to hazard a guess and assume that means that you did everything by yourself.
Will you continue to do everything by yourself?
Its almost magical.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Mar 23, 2014, 02:21:19 AM
I mean, being sentient is why we care.
Can you prove that?
Or is that a figure of faith?
We think for ourselves. So yah, I probably will continue to think for myself as we have free will and junk.
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Mar 23, 2014, 02:24:36 AM
We think for ourselves. So yah, I probably will continue to think for myself as we have free will and junk.
Did you really have to shoehorn your junk in there?!
You libs and your junk!
So thinking for your self is just stuff people do.
Explain morality.
Why dont you murder your neighbors and eat children?
Like a monkey does.
Although the wild animal such as the ferret, will not cannibalize itself beyond its own protection.
It knows when its needs a certain amount of herd to protect itself from other species.
Basically the human is similar in that respect.
Why is there a god?
Have you ever had a dream that came true the next day?
Have you ever felt some one and then they called you?
There are things that cant be explained.
Its only a matter of Faith.
Take it or leave it.
But one thing is true,
who built this country.
Who do you owe for the freedom to doubt it?!
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Mar 22, 2014, 11:27:58 PMIf an Atheist observes Christians and calls them sheep or idiots based on their beliefs, they're a judgmental self-righteous prick who needs to get the f**k off their high horse and accept the fact that some people have faith no matter what.
And if the observed are sheep?
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 23, 2014, 01:29:31 AMLet the libs have that one.
Who? If you mean "Liberals", I know of some people with conservative leanings who are atheists.
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 23, 2014, 01:29:31 AMI'll take people with a Christian work ethic.
Which is what, exactly?
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 23, 2014, 02:36:33 AM
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 23, 2014, 01:29:31 AMI'll take people with a Christian work ethic.
Which is what, exactly?
Well,
a snotbag who doesn't work on GP and lives in squaler of their own design,
like an artist or something let them be.
But a ishtbag who expects to be paid for being a layabout,
should be shot in the face.
(Half the time their allegedly Christians, without the work ethic!)
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 23, 2014, 02:40:54 AM
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 23, 2014, 02:36:33 AM
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 23, 2014, 01:29:31 AMI'll take people with a Christian work ethic.
Which is what, exactly?
Well,
a snotbag who doesn't work on GP and lives in squaler of their own design,
like an artist or something let them be.
But a ishtbag who expects to be paid for being a layabout,
should be shot in the face.
And where in the Bible does it say this?
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 23, 2014, 02:43:27 AM
And where in the Bible does it say this?
[/quote]
The bible doesn't say it,
I say it.
The bible can be interpreted.
Within reason.
I consider it a morality to live by.
(And that morality tells me to shoot anyone in the face who doesn't at least try to work for a living.)
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 23, 2014, 02:47:51 AM
The bible doesn't say it,
I say it.
The bible can be interpreted.
Within reason.
I consider it a morality to live by.
I see. So, it isn't really a Xtian ethic; it's a
RobThomian ethic. So, you were being liberal with your interpretation. Nice.
RomThom you gotta come strong with some haiku now.
Rob, immediately assuming a persecution complex says far more about your stance then I think you intended. Yes, there are Atheists out there motivated by less then intelligent reasoning. But you have to consider the state of the world man. I'm not even going to use an extreme example like living in the Middle East, think of a relatively peaceful country like Australia, Europe and America, where everyone enjoys some measure of freedom to live their lives, yet are subjected on a daily basis to religious influence, whether it be a Bible in their hotel room, a teacher telling their child pseudoscience, legislature against the rights of transgender and homosexuals, or a street preacher telling them what they need to do to avoid immortality in an incinerator.
Atheists for the most part exist in a world of religious normality and privilege, and the second we decide to say "Hey, what about us guys?" we have to deal with accusations of intolerance.
Give me a good reason why I should be content with this. "Think of peoples feelings" is not a good reason.
I don't have a problem with people who don't follow religion. My only major beef with the non religious is those that carry the same hamfisted ridiculous logic that extreme fundamentalist do and don't see the hypocrisy of wanting to wipe out all the religious people (or some other equally intolerant and prejudice statement).
Lets make choices for other people. Or get rid of them since we don't like them.
"Yes, there are Atheists out there motivated by less then intelligent reasoning."
I also understand that there are Hyper-Christians out there who irritate the holy smokes out of non-Christians.
"But you have to consider the state of the world man."
I do.
I do.
Its not that I think that everyone should be a Christian,
Its that its seems to me that "Atheism" is being used as a slip through for something else.
Something perverted, something without a morality to protect them.
When I watch "Reality TV" it bothers me.
Oh don't even try the "Atheists have no morality" thing. No one bases their morality on one thing, as much as they like to say they do. If anyone really did base their morality on the Christian Bible, they would be in a padded cell because they'd be deemed too insane to serve prison time for their crimes.
Morality is subjective in the same way that philosophy is subjective. It's a discussion of human suffering and social interaction that creates our morality, and the fact that two people can come to two different moralities scares some people, so they need to make it safe and say "Hey, here's where all morality comes from, so I don't have to worry about right and wrong"
I get that need for security, but they could choose something better then a Bronze Age fairytale book.
I'm drunk I don't have time for this lol
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 23, 2014, 03:32:36 AMSomething perverted, something without a morality to protect them.
Rest assured, we have morality.
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 23, 2014, 03:32:36 AMWhen I watch "Reality TV" it bothers me.
I can see why...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQkaPkRE-jo# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQkaPkRE-jo#)
Look at all that morality hanging off of her, swinging around her knees.
Yeah, she developed her bullshit world view the same way everyone else does, with her brain. Saying she got her morality from one book is mental masturbation.
She got it from KFC.
this f**king thread
Jesus loves you Cal.
It feels so good to make my 1,000th post saying this.
This f**king thread indeed.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 23, 2014, 03:45:17 AM
Jesus loves you Cal.
That's one more than I thought. Thanks mom and Jesus.
Aspie counts as three.
Yayyyyyyyyy!
...man, I totally missed the party...
The party is just getting started.
It aint a party until someone who believes in devine genocide questions your morality.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 23, 2014, 01:56:34 PMIt aint a party until someone who believes in devine genocide questions your morality.
Oh, well, in that case, it had already started yesterday.
A church goer has a very sick son so she gets the people of her church to pray for him. He eventually gets better. They credit god for healing the sick boy, through the power of prayer. Now remembering that the boys mother is a devout believer, she gets prayer help from her church group (whom are all good, devout, Christians). Only after much worshipping, thanking, begging and praying will god heal the boy.
Why?
Why will god only help his follwers after they have worshipped him, loved him and begged for help? Surely he would know their suffering as he's omnipotent. So he sees a sick child (a good little Christian boy at that), knows the situation, but will only heal him after he's been suitably placated with adoration, love, worship and prayer.
With his unlimited power he could have healed the sick boy at any time, or even stopped him getting sick, he could wipe out all disease in the world if it struck his fancy, yet he will only step into help after being showered with adoration from the little mortals he created.
Am I the only one who thinks that doesn't sound like a loving god? A god that loves unconditionally?
God is like any other story character from mythology, things get really weird when you try to pin down their properties. The version of God that mother and her Church believes in is still incredibly nebulous, as I severely doubt any of them spare more then a few minutes to consider His properties.
But for someone who actually asks the questions you are now, they see how fragmented, half formed and contradictory this God appears to be. Trying to make sense of it is going to give you very interesting results.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJSfdN68AsI# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJSfdN68AsI#)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZVcGPERJoU# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZVcGPERJoU#)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7J3PuSM_VA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7J3PuSM_VA#)
Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Mar 23, 2014, 04:23:39 PM
A church goer has a very sick son so she gets the people of her church to pray for him. He eventually gets better. They credit god for healing the sick boy, through the power of prayer. Now remembering that the boys mother is a devout believer, she gets prayer help from her church group (whom are all good, devout, Christians). Only after much worshipping, thanking, begging and praying will god heal the boy.
Why?
Why will god only help his follwers after they have worshipped him, loved him and begged for help? Surely he would know their suffering as he's omnipotent. So he sees a sick child (a good little Christian boy at that), knows the situation, but will only heal him after he's been suitably placated with adoration, love, worship and prayer.
With his unlimited power he could have healed the sick boy at any time, or even stopped him getting sick, he could wipe out all disease in the world if it struck his fancy, yet he will only step into help after being showered with adoration from the little mortals he created.
Am I the only one who thinks that doesn't sound like a loving god? A god that loves unconditionally?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K5PGWZ0DWI#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K5PGWZ0DWI#ws)
I haven't seen Zeitgeist... I do hear about it a lot from Skepticism blogs, and for the most part, people seem to really take issue with it.
I have seen one of the sequels, however, since my brother is a spiritualist who likes to push his woo on people, but that one was more about the monetary system then religion.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fblogs%2Fwwjtd%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F09%2FForgiveness.jpg&hash=016e90acf996941ee841d83eb5ae68631b4e84bb)
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 23, 2014, 02:36:33 AM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Mar 22, 2014, 11:27:58 PMIf an Atheist observes Christians and calls them sheep or idiots based on their beliefs, they're a judgmental self-righteous prick who needs to get the f**k off their high horse and accept the fact that some people have faith no matter what.
And if the observed are sheep?
Just because people have a certain belief system doesn't make them sheep. Anyone who thinks that is a cock in my book.
My post was to point out the flaws on both sides, so people, just f**king chill. You're all so sensitive.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Mar 24, 2014, 01:46:57 AM
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 23, 2014, 02:36:33 AM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Mar 22, 2014, 11:27:58 PMIf an Atheist observes Christians and calls them sheep or idiots based on their beliefs, they're a judgmental self-righteous prick who needs to get the f**k off their high horse and accept the fact that some people have faith no matter what.
And if the observed are sheep?
Just because people have a certain belief system doesn't make them sheep. Anyone who thinks that is a cock in my book.
My post was to point out the flaws on both sides, so people, just f**king chill. You're all so sensitive.
You're the one making assumptions and needs to chill. All I did was ask a question, from which you pivoted.
Freaking Dova.
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 24, 2014, 02:14:56 AM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Mar 24, 2014, 01:46:57 AM
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 23, 2014, 02:36:33 AM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Mar 22, 2014, 11:27:58 PMIf an Atheist observes Christians and calls them sheep or idiots based on their beliefs, they're a judgmental self-righteous prick who needs to get the f**k off their high horse and accept the fact that some people have faith no matter what.
And if the observed are sheep?
Just because people have a certain belief system doesn't make them sheep. Anyone who thinks that is a cock in my book.
My post was to point out the flaws on both sides, so people, just f**king chill. You're all so sensitive.
You're the one making assumptions and needs to chill. All I did was ask a question, from which you pivoted.
I thought you were implying that upon observing Christians, you see them as sheep. Were you not?
Quote from: ShadowPred on Mar 24, 2014, 02:18:36 AM
Freaking Dova.
Freaking me.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Mar 24, 2014, 02:47:15 AMI thought you were implying that upon observing Christians, you see them as sheep. Were you not?
I was not.
Oh. My bad then, man.
I've lived my whole life as a Christian, but I wouldn't have trouble believing that God isn't real if it ever is proved as a fact. I have many atheist friends and many christian friends and I wouldn't say any of them are bad people in any way, shape or form.
I was just pointing out the worst of both sides of the spectrum.
I agree, but I've found 'people are people' to be rather useless when discussing ideology. There are awesome guys and total c**ts in every flavor of thinking, so pointing them out can do nothing for you, regardless of your position.
I find it far more practical to focus on Religion itself. Cool guys will read a Bible and be an awesome neighbor, total c**ts will read a Bible and decide to have their daughters genitals mutilated. Comparing Cool Guy and Total c**t is a waste of time, so better to look at the book they both read, the organization they both sympathize with, and the culture they live in.
But you could do all that without religion.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Mar 24, 2014, 02:55:20 AM
I've lived my whole life as a Christian, but I wouldn't have trouble believing that God isn't real if it ever is proved as a fact.
That's what's known as the Negative Proof Fallacy. What kind of test is there to prove that such a thing doesn't exist? Since there isn't a way to prove the absence of such a thing, it's nonsensical. Therefore, the onus is on the one who makes the assertion of existence.
If God was concrete and in a specific location that is accessible for observation, it would be a simple matter of going there and seeing if he was indeed there or not. But since we do not know what he looks, sounds, smells, etc., like and we do not know where he is supposed to be, there is no way of disproving his existence; which is akin to setting us up for a wild goose chase. That's why his existence is contingent on proof instead of disproof. Then you have to ask yourself what it is that you are basing your belief on. Remember: believing something isn't the same as knowing. Yes, there are atheists who claim to know that there is no god, but they are a slim minority. Most keep it to simply not believing and pointing out that there is no empirical evidence to support such a being's existence. But when you keep it to this is what you were taught or choose to believe, that is not the same as knowing nor is it proof of existence. I would like to believe a lot of things, like having a fortune in my savings account, but having faith doesn't fill the coffers.
By questioning what it is you believe and why you believe it, you're being more honest with yourself than just choosing an idea because it makes you feel good. Part of my leaving the faith was based on a passage in the Bible telling readers how to test the existence of other gods. I applied the same methods to the Abrahamic god, got the same results and went through an afternoon of apologetics and once I realized what I had to go through to convince myself of his existence, my faith began to crumble a bit.
Anyway, it's time for this old geezer to get to bed. Have a good evening.
MALEDORO WAS RELIGIOUS!?
Now, I do agree with you for the most part when it comes to belief and knowledge, but I think it's important to point out that there are times we can say for certain that something doesn't exist by judging their properties.
For instance, a married bachelor. Just because you've never seen one before doesn't mean they don't exist, right? Wrong. We can say with absolute certainty that there is no such thing as a married bachelor, because the concept is self refuting.
So no, I can't say for certain that God doesn't exist, but there are plenty of versions of God I can say cannot exist. For instance, a God that is all knowing but capable of changing his mind. That ones bullshit. A God that is omnipotent but can be killed by iron chariots. Also bullshit. A God that is allergic to peanuts but can consume peanuts without harm. Bullshit.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 24, 2014, 03:29:56 AMFor instance, a married bachelor. Just because you've never seen one before doesn't mean they don't exist, right? Wrong. We can say with absolute certainty that there is no such thing as a married bachelor, because the concept is self refuting.
That has absolutely nothing to do with this type of argument. You're comparing the intangible with the tangible. We're talking basketball and you're introducing Monopoly rules to the game.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 24, 2014, 03:29:56 AMSo no, I can't say for certain that God doesn't exist, but there are plenty of versions of God I can say cannot exist. For instance, a God that is all knowing but capable of changing his mind. That ones bullshit. A God that is omnipotent but can be killed by iron chariots. Also bullshit. A God that is allergic to peanuts but can consume peanuts without harm. Bullshit.
If anyone reads the Bible with a hint of skepticism and spends time reading its history (not shown through the lens of the Church founders) they will see that not only are there contradictions in the Bible, but it was written so that it can be interpreted one way for a situation and interpreted differently for the same type of situation but for a different "moral".
The Bible says one thing about God and then the opposite a few pages, chapters, books later. As Epicurus was credited to saying:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 24, 2014, 01:13:43 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 24, 2014, 03:29:56 AMFor instance, a married bachelor. Just because you've never seen one before doesn't mean they don't exist, right? Wrong. We can say with absolute certainty that there is no such thing as a married bachelor, because the concept is self refuting.
That has absolutely nothing to do with this type of argument. You're comparing the intangible with the tangible. We're talking basketball and you're introducing Monopoly rules to the game.
Maybe I should clarify. I'm not saying the concept of God can be evaluated in the same way a married bachelor can, I'm saying any positive claim is subject to internal consistency. Once someone makes a claim as to the properties of God, it becomes something open to scrutiny.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 25, 2014, 03:09:33 AMMaybe I should clarify. I'm not saying the concept of God can be evaluated in the same way a married bachelor can, I'm saying any positive claim is subject to internal consistency. Once someone makes a claim as to the properties of God, it becomes something open to scrutiny.
As it should.
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 23, 2014, 04:57:42 PM(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fblogs%2Fwwjtd%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F09%2FForgiveness.jpg&hash=016e90acf996941ee841d83eb5ae68631b4e84bb)
Damn.
Lacking a serious contribution today, I thought I'd throw in this little gem, before it gets deleted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZM-mr9eYd8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZM-mr9eYd8#ws)
The man has been pretty unstable for a while, but he's been one of the lesser known Youtube theists whose only gotten his popularity through his random outbursts and posturing. He has a habit of challenging people out of no where to 'scholarly academic debates' then cancelling at the last second and making a few dozen videos about how he actually won.
Looks like he's finally cracked here. He's been posting all day.
Edit: Another good example of his hilarious antics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFXrIvkGHp8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFXrIvkGHp8#ws)
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 25, 2014, 05:44:59 PM
Lacking a serious contribution today, I thought I'd throw in this little gem, before it gets deleted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZM-mr9eYd8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZM-mr9eYd8#ws)
The man has been pretty unstable for a while, but he's been one of the lesser known Youtube theists whose only gotten his popularity through his random outbursts and posturing. He has a habit of challenging people out of no where to 'scholarly academic debates' then cancelling at the last second and making a few dozen videos about how he actually won.
Looks like he's finally cracked here. He's been posting all day.
Edit: Another good example of his hilarious antics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFXrIvkGHp8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFXrIvkGHp8#ws)
Too bad that we can't actually see what was said, per the alleged "atheists" to see if indeed he was under attack or just simply questioned. If he was censored, it's doubtful that atheists would do this as we enjoy hearing religious arguments. Most likely, it was a hoax.
Why were people flagging his videos?
Yeah, he has this paranoid delusion that all the Atheists on Youtube are part of one group, with leaders and plans and such, and that they regularly arrange to cyberbully him. So apparently Richard Dawkins takes time out of his day to conspire against Jason Burns.
All of his videos have been archived, so you can follow the madness just fine :) As for his current DMCA claims, the archivest who sent him that PM claims to have not followed through with filing the DMCA. Not sure I believe him, but some are saying that he's simply made all his videos private and claiming to be under attack. This isn't out of character for him. He's done worse for attention, like faking suicide and claiming Atheists showed up to his door and put him in hospital. He'll say almost anything for the attention.
Damn it, he deleted his videos again. I don't think anyone managed to back up the good ones in time.
Global Atheist Conspiracy!
Lol, what a nutjob.
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmvXjATalK4#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmvXjATalK4#ws)
I really hope that guy is just having fun xD
Nah, just another crazy. :laugh:
They get into everything.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Mar 26, 2014, 07:44:58 AM
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmvXjATalK4#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmvXjATalK4#ws)
Let's see, where to begin?
The camera was quick to set up the shot; the main characters were framed in thirds; no matter where the "atheist" character went, his voice was not just loud but clear also, hinting that great care was taken in micing him; the "atheist" hit on all of the bullet points that make Xtians upset... Could it be...
staged?
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 26, 2014, 07:46:26 AM
I really hope that guy is just having fun xD
He's completely right though about everything he said. The world needs more atheists who are willing to accost street proselytizers.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Mar 26, 2014, 01:28:24 PMThe world needs more atheists who are willing to accost street proselytizers.
No, it doesn't. Let them be.
We don't need more ranting f**kwits, regardless of whether I share their frustrations.
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 26, 2014, 01:34:03 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Mar 26, 2014, 01:28:24 PMThe world needs more atheists who are willing to accost street proselytizers.
No, it doesn't. Let them be.
How else are we supposed to stem the tide of irrationality and illogic? Surely debating peacefully albeit obnoxiously is a better method than say blowing up a church?
You think that countering shouting f**kwits with shouting f**kwits makes it an even discussion? No man, regardless of the message, a f**kwit shouting in the street is still a f**kwit. Intelligent people aren't swayed by that kind of acting out.
You want to see an example of how to 'stem the tide of irrationality', hell, look to Youtube. Ever since they added the Google Hangouts support, civil discourse has become very common among Atheists and Theists, and these discussions are reaching larger audiences as well.
Free exchange of information is the f**king nail through the skull of ignorance. Far more effective then yelling at damaged f**kwits in the street.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 26, 2014, 02:19:48 PM
You think that countering shouting f**kwits with shouting f**kwits makes it an even discussion? No man, regardless of the message, a f**kwit shouting in the street is still a f**kwit. Intelligent people aren't swayed by that kind of acting out.
You want to see an example of how to 'stem the tide of irrationality', hell, look to Youtube. Ever since they added the Google Hangouts support, civil discourse has become very common among Atheists and Theists, and these discussions are reaching larger audiences as well.
Free exchange of information is the f**king nail through the skull of ignorance. Far more effective then yelling at damaged f**kwits in the street.
Indeed, You bring up valid points.
Carry on.
I've been working with this guy for a while now. He's a hardcore xtian. He utterly believes that anyone who doesn't worship god will burn for all eternity in hell regardless of whether they're a good person or not, don't worship god? Hell and torment forever for you then.
Now what really bothers me, what I just can't get my head around, is how does he process this in his head. He knows that people he works with (and has worked with for 15 years in some cases) aren't all xtians. He works with people for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for years and he knows they're going to hell. His friends are going to hell.
I know I'm not wording this well, but I just don't know how to. How can you be ok with good people, people you are friends with, being tortured forever in hell.
I don't know if god exists or not, I can't prove it either way. Personally I think that ''faith'' is essentially believing what you want to believe.
With the above (and so many other things, killing every human on the planet but 2 by drowning them, killing all the first born of Eygpt, demanding to be worshipped or be burned forever etc etc) I choose not to believe in god. The idea of an all powerful omnipotent god that does such things horrifies and terrifies me. If it was proven to me tomorrow that without any doubt, that the god of the bible existed, I don't think I'd be able to cope with the knowledge of it. A being of such power, capable of such deeds... I certainly wouldn't worship him.
I'm sure xtians would say that god loves me etc etc but if he loves me so much, if he has unconditional love, why does he need me to worship him before he'll save me? Why do I need to worship and adore him to stay out of hell?
Quite frankly it all reminds of some sort of sci-fi movie. An all powerful being called Zoltar demonstrates his endless, infinite power and proclaims itself god. He loves us all and adores us all. He can give us all perfect paradise. All we need to do is worship him and give up our freedom. At the end of the movie it turns out that paradise is a lie and Zoltar is an energy being alien that just wants to eat us all and dominate the galaxy and/or absorb our souls.
P.S. Xtians usually refer to god as ''Him'' bestowing the male gender on him. Why would god have a gender? Supposedly there is only 1 god. If there is only 1 god, god can't reproduce using male genitalia only. Perhaps god is asexual? If god was indeed male, would that not prove that god is not the only god? Would there not also then be a ''female'' god, a goddess?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UowZgy9Yio# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UowZgy9Yio#)
Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Mar 26, 2014, 08:05:01 PMP.S. Xtians usually refer to god as ''Him'' bestowing the male gender on him. Why would god have a gender? Supposedly there is only 1 god. If there is only 1 god, god can't reproduce using male genitalia only. Perhaps god is asexual? If god was indeed male, would that not prove that god is not the only god? Would there not also then be a ''female'' god, a goddess?
I'm sure that you already know this, but to bring others up to speed if they need it, Xtianity sprung from Judaism, which was an offshoot of Canaanism. The Jews took a few of the Canaanites' gods with them, including Yahweh (
the god we call "God") and a goddess which would be his wife, Asherah. After a while, the Jews decided to change things and go from being a polytheistic religion to being monotheistic. So, he was a he.
Here is an interesting article about God being a hermaphrodite:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-08-15/news/0808141093_1_god-yahweh-backward (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-08-15/news/0808141093_1_god-yahweh-backward)
And,
Vickers: thanks for the headsup on
Zeitgeist. I now have it in my Netflix queue.
EDIT: Just watched it and turned it off after 45 minutes. Most of the stuff about Xtianity I already knew, but what annoyed me is when they began introducing the 9/11 Truther bullshit.
Gosh bless the Aethiests!
I'm half Aethiest.
My Dad is an aethiest,
but my mom believes in good.
I love both of them.
There's a joke in there somewhere, I'm just not sure if it's funny xD
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/27/christian-video-game-developers-blame-satan-for-their-failures/ (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/27/christian-video-game-developers-blame-satan-for-their-failures/)
The comments are great xD
Quote from: JasperI want a real Bible Game.
Your character is walking along, and some kids call you bald. You cast "bear attack" to get back at them.
You're in your house and some angels visit you. A horde of horny men come along, and you have to convince them to gang rape your daughters to get the angels out.
You're given a quest that needs a dowry of foreskins...
Quote from: LandoYou had me until the fetch-quest.
Quote
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 28, 2014, 01:48:31 AM
Gosh bless the Aethiests!
I'm half Aethiest.
My Dad is an aethiest,
but my mom believes in good.
I love both of them.
I thought it was your dad who believed in good?
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 26, 2014, 09:17:52 PM
And, Vickers: thanks for the headsup on Zeitgeist. I now have it in my Netflix queue.
EDIT: Just watched it and turned it off after 45 minutes. Most of the stuff about Xtianity I already knew, but what annoyed me is when they began introducing the 9/11 Truther bullshit.
I only found the religion part of
Zeitgeist interesting - it was also the only part of the documentary that was presented well and backed up with real facts. The 9/11 conspiracy stuff was silly.
Is atheism something to believe in?
Or is it just like gathering around your distaste for peanut butter?
If I didn't believe in God wouldn't I just not bother to talk about it?
I dont bother to talk about how I dont believe in people on mars.
Not that you dont have a right to do it or anything.
:laugh:
Quote from: RobThom on Mar 28, 2014, 03:52:34 PM
Is atheism something to believe in?
Or is it just like gathering around your distaste for peanut butter?
If I didn't believe in God wouldn't I just not bother to talk about it?
I dont bother to talk about how I dont believe in people on mars.
Not that you dont have a right to do it or anything.
Yes, atheism is something to believe in. Peanut butter exists so that's not a very good example.
I don't see anything wrong with people speaking up about something that is brainwashing others.
Yeah, I kind of can't get married. Pretty sure thats enough for me to say 'what gives?'
The thing is in my opinion that people don't often speak of is "what is your belief" outside of a religious one.
Atheism is just a reactionary position that most of the time is used to oppose to the religious side.
I personally don't think the universe came just like "this" but I refute also the thesis of a "god".
When I play space engine, I sometime wonder if the universe ain't a simulation for scientific / art / or whatever else purpose.
Then if the "superior" being has plan, is watching or not us is completely out of the equation.
I think there's a lot contingency but not everything came by its own.
There's probably something beyond our understanding and I accept it.
I also won't spend my entire life searching for it though that would be interesting if in any future quantum computer happens to re-create the universe and by accident also re-creates life within it.
Le Celticant nails it. Atheism is a response to the question of God.
Now, Antitheism, that's a response to the question of "Can I put this Church here and stamp on your rights for free?"
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 29, 2014, 02:33:55 AMLe Celticant nails it. Atheism is a response to the question of God.
Not really. Atheism is simply not believing in any god. If you raise a child without indoctrinating them into any religion, the child would be an atheist. The child doesn't have to show opposition to the existence of a god, he just doesn't believe that one exists.
Lack of belief is a response, though. Doh, should have caught this before posting. I was arguing something totally different to a personal response, not sure why I went down this road.
Nope. Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you're actively responding to beliefs that are different.
It's a personal view. It's not a response. There are atheists who will discuss it and those who won't.
A response is an action. Atheism is not an action.
Edit: Doh, I see my error now. I did mispeak last, disregard.
Now, to clarify what I meant.
When I say response, I don't mean a personal response, like someone forming an opinion on it. What I mean is that Atheism exists because of religion, making it a response to it. I'll give you an example of what I mean.
Imagine if String Theory, for instance, were to suddenly take over the scientific community, and because of this, many scientists began to identify themselves as Quantists, people who lack a belief or outright reject String Theory.
Now let's pretend that String Theory didn't happen. Would Quantists exist? No. The group was formed as a response to String Theory.
So what you're trying to say is if there were no God, there would be no atheists? ;D
I knew that was coming xD
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 29, 2014, 02:40:53 PMWhat I mean is that Atheism exists because of religion, making it a response to it. I'll give you an example of what I mean.
But what if you were raised in a culture that makes no mention of God to you, whatsoever? No one is reacting against God or religion; it just doesn't get thought of, let alone mentioned, and you don't believe in anything supernatural. Wouldn't you be an atheist?
Hmmm, interesting... would anyone even be able to use the term Atheist for this person without bringing the concept of Religion into it? I'm not sure you could.
Someone grows up in an environment where the very concept of Religion doesn't exist in any significant form. The word God or Deity or the idea of a higher being is just not in the minds of the people. In this scenario, where the word God isn't present, is the word Atheist present?
Oooooh, more semantics.
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 30, 2014, 04:22:57 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 29, 2014, 02:40:53 PMWhat I mean is that Atheism exists because of religion, making it a response to it. I'll give you an example of what I mean.
But what if you were raised in a culture that makes no mention of God to you, whatsoever? No one is reacting against God or religion; it just doesn't get thought of, let alone mentioned, and you don't believe in anything supernatural. Wouldn't you be an atheist?
According to Google...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.gyazo.com%2F69db229344b9fe35f46ec4a94f362439.png&hash=a10327998fe5aae5200209fa4ff1c11e273cf27a)
Personally, I don't think you would be considered an atheist because there is no god or Gods to believe in.
Has there ever been an example of such a culture?
Semantics seem to be the word of the day.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Mar 30, 2014, 04:34:35 PMAccording to Google...
http://i.gyazo.com/69db229344b9fe35f46ec4a94f362439.png
I've described such a person in my scenario.
Interesting... The person you describe is an Atheist, but what I'm saying is the term Atheist doesn't exist for him, much like the term Religion doesn't exist for him. In order to introduce this person to the concept of Atheism, you must also introduce him to the concept of a higher being.
It's a package deal.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 30, 2014, 04:38:58 PM
Interesting... The person you describe is an Atheist, but what I'm saying is the term Atheist doesn't exist for him, much like the term Religion doesn't exist for him. In order to introduce this person to the concept of Atheism, you must also introduce him to the concept of a higher being.
It's a package deal.
Are you saying that he has to be aware of the concept of being an atheist in order to be one?
No, I'm not, I'm saying the concept of Atheism doesn't exist without the concept of Religion. I am in no way saying that being an Atheist is some sort of recognition of Religion. I misspoke to that effect before and have edited, so that may be the confusion.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 30, 2014, 04:48:42 PM
No, I'm not, I'm saying the concept of Atheism doesn't exist without the concept of Religion. I am in no way saying that being an Atheist is some sort of recognition of Religion. I misspoke to that effect before and have edited, so that may be the confusion.
So...can a person who is automatically without religion (as opposed to one who was indoctrinated and later rejected it) be an atheist, simply on the grounds that he doesn't believe in that which is supernatural? Yes or no?
Of course.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 30, 2014, 04:54:16 PM
Of course.
Thank you. If we were talking about atheism as a dessert, in this scenario it would be a cake. Earlier, you were concerning yourself with unnecessary frosting and sprinkles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXQExyZIEX0# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXQExyZIEX0#)
Just had to share.
The way I see it, if you feel the need to label yourself just to be apart of a niche
You're doing something wrong, who gives a damn what other people believe in.
Leave them be and they'll leave you alone, easy fixed.
I mean religious people may be silly most of the time but at least when they reach out it's to help those who would benefit from such a lifestyle and how is that bad?
Atheists on the other hand? who do they help?
They don't rally together out of a misplaced sense of love, most atheists just rally together to hate on other people and their beliefs and too me that's much, much more pathetic.
I'm not atheist nor do I believe in any organised religion, I believe in "I don't know everything and never will so why should I act like it?"
Belittling other people is just as pathetic as believing in some non-existent deity, if you can't see that then you're just too busy tooting your own horn.
Quote from: Dark Passenger on Mar 31, 2014, 04:51:09 AM
The way I see it, if you feel the need to label yourself just to be apart of a niche
You're doing something wrong, who gives a damn what other people believe in.
Leave them be and they'll leave you alone, easy fixed.
I mean religious people may be silly most of the time but at least when they reach out it's to help those who would benefit from such a lifestyle and how is that bad?
Atheists on the other hand? who do they help?
They don't rally together out of a misplaced sense of love, most atheists just rally together to hate on other people and their beliefs and too me that's much, much more pathetic.
I'm not atheist nor do I believe in any organised religion, I believe in "I don't know everything and never will so why should I act like it?"
Belittling other people is just as pathetic as believing in some non-existent deity, if you can't see that then you're just too busy tooting you own horn.
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/45ba53ea39a0e77eb95e915a17559f9d/tumblr_inline_n102s3cWEt1qhv088.gif)
I don't know how many times I've seen posts exactly like that in this thread. :laugh:
Quote from: Dark Passenger on Mar 31, 2014, 04:51:09 AM
The way I see it, if you feel the need to label yourself just to be apart of a niche
You're doing something wrong, who gives a damn what other people believe in.
Leave them be and they'll leave you alone, easy fixed.
You act as if Religion is a harmless pass time.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 31, 2014, 04:57:05 AM
Quote from: Dark Passenger on Mar 31, 2014, 04:51:09 AM
The way I see it, if you feel the need to label yourself just to be apart of a niche
You're doing something wrong, who gives a damn what other people believe in.
Leave them be and they'll leave you alone, easy fixed.
You act as if Religion is a harmless pass time.
What? and that means atheism is harmless?
Door swings both ways, in case you didn't know
And the cycle continues...
As I said in the Paranormal thread, try reading posts thoroughly and calming down before you respond. Try to take things one at a time, I can't have a discussion with you when you leap around like this.
I asked you if you think Religion is a harmless pass time, try responding to that before you go on to share you're view on Atheisms impact to society.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 31, 2014, 05:02:53 AM
As I said in the Paranormal thread, try reading posts thoroughly and calming down before you respond. Try to take things one at a time, I can't have a discussion with you when you leap around like this.
I asked you if you think Religion is a harmless pass time, try responding to that before you go on to share you're view on Atheisms impact to society.
Who's jumping?
If you listened to my original post I said there is some good people and bad people in religion and the same goes for atheists.
You're the one jumping all over the place and only focusing on the negatives of religion and I disputed that because the same can be said about atheists and yet you only focus on what you want to focus on.
I'll say it again, it may appear like I'm jumping all over the place but that's not true, you just can't keep up.
ahahahahahahaha
You're not making this easy.
Okay, I'm going to try one more time at this. You claim that Atheists view Religion negatively on purpose. For this to be true, Religion would have to be mostly okay, or else there would be no facts to twist.
Could you please demonstrate to me the benefits of Religion and how they are equal to or greater then the harm it causes? A simple answer would be appreciated.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 31, 2014, 05:15:11 AM
You're not making this easy.
Okay, I'm going to try one more time at this. You claim that Atheists view Religion negatively on purpose. For this to be true, Religion would have to be mostly okay, or else there would be no facts to twist.
Could you please demonstrate to me the benefits of Religion and how they are equal to or greater then the harm it causes? A simple answer would be appreciated.
Okay how many people right now are being friendly to their neighbour, friends and family because of what they enjoy believing in? millions?
Right now they could be robbing, killing and whatever else messed up crime there is to do but they're not, they're there with their families and neighbours trying to be good people.
They might be wrong about whether there is a god or not but at least some try to be good people and I see nothing wrong with that.
How many people die from religion yearly? I'd say the numbers are much less than that.
Because I doubt it's in the millions, religion does help a lot of people but in your typical manner you only focus on what you want to focus on.
And even then blame such crimes on the individual and not the people who happen to be around them because all your doing is lumping the good people with the crazies.
I'm failing to see the connection between Religious belief and people not leaping over their neighbors fence to murder them and rape their wives. You attribute the lack of such behavior to 'belief' (and you use the term so nebulously I'm not sure how exactly to address it) but then go onto say that such behavior should be blamed on the individual.
So, good actions are the result of 'belief', yet bad actions are the result of 'just crazies?'
That's ridiculous.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 31, 2014, 05:27:41 AM
I'm failing to see the connection between Religious belief and people not leaping over their neighbors fence to murder them and rape their wives. You attribute the lack of such behavior to 'belief' (and you use the term so nebulously I'm not sure how exactly to address it) but then go onto say that such behavior should be blamed on the individual.
So, good actions are the result of 'belief', yet bad actions are the result of 'just crazies?'
That's ridiculous.
Yet again you're putting words in my mouth, is that all you do?
And no that's not what I was saying, just because you can't understand what I'm saying doesn't mean you're automatically the victor here.
How are you even disputing my point that there is good people and bad people on both sides of the fence?
So religion is all bad? but atheism is all good? is that what you're saying? really?
That's the way a child would view the world, everything is a black and white to you isn't it?
Quote from: Dark Passenger on Mar 31, 2014, 05:35:26 AM
How are you even disputing my point that there is good people and bad people on both sides of the fence?
So religion is all bad? but atheism is all good? is that what you're saying? really?
That's not what I asked you and that's not what I said. You throw around accusations of putting words in your mouth, while putting words in others mouths. I'm not going to ask questions of someone who will change my questions, nor will I give answers to someone who will hear something else.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 31, 2014, 05:44:44 AM
Quote from: Dark Passenger on Mar 31, 2014, 05:35:26 AM
How are you even disputing my point that there is good people and bad people on both sides of the fence?
So religion is all bad? but atheism is all good? is that what you're saying? really?
That's not what I asked you and that's not what I said. You throw around accusations of putting words in your mouth, while putting words in others mouths. I'm not going to ask questions of someone who will change my questions, nor will I give answers to someone who will hear something else.
Lets take a trip back in time
My original post
QuoteThe way I see it, if you feel the need to label yourself just to be apart of a niche
You're doing something wrong, who gives a damn what other people believe in.
Leave them be and they'll leave you alone, easy fixed.
I mean religious people may be silly most of the time but at least when they reach out it's to help those who would benefit from such a lifestyle and how is that bad?
Atheists on the other hand? who do they help?
They don't rally together out of a misplaced sense of love, most atheists just rally together to hate on other people and their beliefs and too me that's much, much more pathetic.
I'm not atheist nor do I believe in any organised religion, I believe in "I don't know everything and never will so why should I act like it?"
Belittling other people is just as pathetic as believing in some non-existent deity, if you can't see that then you're just too busy tooting your own horn.
In case you couldn't understand i was saying that there is both good and bad on both sides and what did you respond with?
QuoteYou act as if Religion is a harmless pass time.
Which is not only making an assumption on how I view religion as a whole but it also is directly opposing my point that there is good and bad in both parties and to blame just one side is just silly and all you can say is 'But Religion is...'
QuoteThat's not what I asked you and that's not what I said
So much for that.
You're preaching to the choir, I know religion influences some bad in the world but just like everything else in this world it isn't just all bad, it does some good and to ignore that because you can't see over you're ego is just asanine.
And yet you're telling me you know better than those religious people you look down at? thanks for the laugh :)
I'm completely at a loss here. Addressing you're nonsense point for point is only going to give me more of you're energetic, childish f**kwittery, and I think I've humored that long enough. You've gotten a lot more rope then I give most people, and now that you've hung yourself with you, I feel no need to pull on your legs. Though, I know you don't see it that way, and that you likely won't, despite what anyone says, so I'm just going to opt out of this silliness.
When you've learned to speak like a functional adult, then I'll engage you. Until then, I stand to gain nothing from you.
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 31, 2014, 06:00:09 AM
I'm completely at a loss here. Addressing you're nonsense point for point is only going to give me more of you're energetic, childish f**kwittery, and I think I've humored that long enough. You've gotten a lot more rope then I give most people, and now that you've hung yourself with you, I feel no need to pull on your legs. Though, I know you don't see it that way, and that you likely won't, despite what anyone says, so I'm just going to opt out of this silliness.
When you've learned to speak like a functional adult, then I'll engage you. Until then, I stand to gain nothing from you.
Bahaha :laugh:
I've actually heard a losers speech quite similar to this before...
Hmm odd...I guess ignorance truly is contagious.
You know what kind of people step down? the people who should have never stood up.
Just food for thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw5acgqIHQE# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw5acgqIHQE#)
Going back to this "good and bad on both sides" business, we know that there is good and bad in religion and that a lot of the bad stems from scripture. From where does the bad in being secular come? Sure, you can point fingers at a few atheists misbehaving at street preachers, but where is the real harm and from where does it come on the non-religious side?
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 31, 2014, 11:49:43 AM
Going back to this "good and bad on both sides" business, we know that there is good and bad in religion and that a lot of the bad stems from scripture. From where does the bad in being secular come? Sure, you can point fingers at a few atheists misbehaving at street preachers, but where is the real harm and from where does it come on the non-religious side?
Everyone would be living in the now without worry of offending or pleasing some scumbag made up deity. There is no bad in becoming secular. It is truly a flawless system. It is the only way to achieve true happiness in a society.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Mar 31, 2014, 05:51:32 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 31, 2014, 11:49:43 AM
Going back to this "good and bad on both sides" business, we know that there is good and bad in religion and that a lot of the bad stems from scripture. From where does the bad in being secular come? Sure, you can point fingers at a few atheists misbehaving at street preachers, but where is the real harm and from where does it come on the non-religious side?
Everyone would be living in the now without worry of offending or pleasing some scumbag made up deity. There is no bad in becoming secular. It is truly a flawless system. It is the only way to achieve true happiness in a society.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Sabby on Mar 31, 2014, 06:00:09 AM
I'm completely at a loss here. Addressing you're nonsense point for point is only going to give me more of you're energetic, childish f**kwittery, and I think I've humored that long enough. You've gotten a lot more rope then I give most people, and now that you've hung yourself with you, I feel no need to pull on your legs. Though, I know you don't see it that way, and that you likely won't, despite what anyone says, so I'm just going to opt out of this silliness.
When you've learned to speak like a functional adult, then I'll engage you. Until then, I stand to gain nothing from you.
You only need look at the avatar to see how braindead he is.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Mar 31, 2014, 05:51:32 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 31, 2014, 11:49:43 AM
Going back to this "good and bad on both sides" business, we know that there is good and bad in religion and that a lot of the bad stems from scripture. From where does the bad in being secular come? Sure, you can point fingers at a few atheists misbehaving at street preachers, but where is the real harm and from where does it come on the non-religious side?
Everyone would be living in the now without worry of offending or pleasing some scumbag made up deity. There is no bad in becoming secular. It is truly a flawless system. It is the only way to achieve true happiness in a society.
That's a pretty extreme position dude... and I'm Antitheist, and even I disagree with this. Besides, what is 'true happiness' when applied to a society anyway?
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 31, 2014, 11:49:43 AM
Going back to this "good and bad on both sides" business, we know that there is good and bad in religion and that a lot of the bad stems from scripture. From where does the bad in being secular come? Sure, you can point fingers at a few atheists misbehaving at street preachers, but where is the real harm and from where does it come on the non-religious side?
How many wars have been waged because people refuse to be humble and use understanding?
I'm not saying not being religious will make you a monster but all I was saying is that religion helps people keep themselves in check and I see no harm in that.
It's when the fanatics take it a step further and begin making the rest look bad and that's what makes people like yourself dislike the idea of religion.
I was just saying the same can be said for the atheists as well, so I know what you're saying and I know religion can influence bad but that's on the individual or individuals doing the act and not on the people who they associate themselves with because then I could say the same to you.
If people can brush everyone in religion with the same colour then why can't people do that to atheists as well?
I could then say you're no different than any atheist criminal to ever exist but I don't because it has nothing to do with which group you belong to, it's on the individual, it's the decisions you make in everyday life.
Nothing in this world is all good or all bad, that was my point so in essence I'm agreeing with you but I just don't like to think I can make a judgement as to whether religion should exist or not because that would mean I'm assuming I know everything there is too know about the subject matter and that it's just all bad and that's just not true.
QuoteYou only need look at the avatar to see how braindead he is.
...you are beyond retarded.
So with you're logic you can judge someone because of something like there avatar? So you're telling me you can tell me if someone is "braindead" or not by say, what clothes they're wearing or what hair style they have?
You're the one who is brain-dead here, sad thing is I don't think you'll ever be able to fathom just how so...
Name one war started in the name of Atheism :P Otters don't count.
'Religion keeps people in check' goes completely against what you said when you freaked out over the implication of a sheeple argument. So which is it? Do people need to be controlled or not? Pick one please, because you're being very unclear.
If any old kind of pack mentality is good enough for you because it keeps things peaceful, then I'm sure you thought Equilibrium was a cautionary tale against the dangers of anti-conformism.
Edit: Also, you should really stop this 'do you know everything?' angle you're using. If knowing everything is a requirement to judge something, then by you're own logic you are incapable of judging Atheism, which you have done multiple times in the past day.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 04:10:00 AM
Name one war started in the name of Atheism :P Otters don't count.
'Religion keeps people in check' goes completely against what you said when you freaked out over the implication of a sheeple argument. So which is it? Do people need to be controlled or not? Pick one please, because you're being very unclear.
If any old kind of pack mentality is good enough for you because it keeps things peaceful, then I'm sure you thought Equilibrium was a cautionary tale against the dangers of anti-conformism.
You with that sheople bullshit again.
You're the one who brought that up, not me.
"Religion keeps people in check" (Sigh)
What I actually said was "Religion helps people keep
themselves in check.
Seems more like you're the one thinking people are nothing but sheep.
Quoteby you're own logic you are incapable of judging Atheism, which you have done multiple times in the past day.
My logic? its called life, I didn't invent this logic.
If you do something to someone expect it to be done right back at you.
So you judge religion and yet I'm not able to do that against you? someone is a little childish here.
Answer a bloody question without flying off the handle please. You seem incapable of remembering anything before your current post, so I'm going to remind you.
1. You made an argument that was unclear, but seemed to imply people need control.
2. I asked you to clarify if that's what you meant.
3. You freak out and attribute the presence of a sheeple argument to me.
If you cannot see the flaw in that list, then you're mentally unprepared for anything close to a discussion. Now, I'm giving you one chance to do the intellectually honest thing and recognize the flaw in your logic and take back your accusation.
Well?
I would like to point out that the most aggressive person in this thread is Sabby.
Sabby you need God.
I have no problem with aggression :P So long as it's coherent. Be as angry as you like guys, just don't confuse anger for stupidity.
Damn it sabby.
Damn me indeed :3
Quote1. You made an argument that was unclear, but seemed to imply people need control.
So because
you couldn't understand what I'm saying, that means it makes no sense?
Someone is a little self indulgent.
Quote2. I asked you to clarify if that's what you meant.
I've done that many times and ironically you're the one jumping all over the place..
Quote3. You freak out and attribute the presence of a sheeple argument to me
Freaking out? the only one who seems to be freaking out is you and the way you're taking this harmless little debate personally.
As I've said before, I'm as chilled as a frozen bag of peas over here.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 04:25:19 AM
I have no problem with aggression :P So long as it's coherent. Be as angry as you like guys, just don't confuse anger for stupidity.
You do realise anger is said to potentially lower someone's IQ?
So how can you claim people can be angry and smart?
Seems you know everything there is too know in life right sabby?
I mean that's what you must be implying if the point of my post was that "I'll never know everything and never will so why judge people as if I do?" and you keep refuting that for some odd reason.
Ironically I think the only reason you have to even open you mouth against my original point is that you're taking this personally, seems childish to me.
Step 1. Be as annoying a c**t as possible.
Step 2. Jump all over the place.
Step 3. Project steps 1 and 2 on everyone else until they leave.
Step 4. Claim victory.
Congratulations on reaching step 3 for the second time in 24 hours. However, you didn't take back your accusation that any kind of sheeple argument stemmed from me. What you did was dissect my account of things and rearrange it full of childishness and even more accusations. Not on kid. I left the conversation yesterday because of your petulant conduct, and I'm afraid I have to leave this one as well.
Hey, I did give you a second chance though :P More then I give most.
*sips mountain dew*
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 04:39:46 AM
Step 1. Be as annoying a c**t as possible.
Step 2. Jump all over the place.
Step 3. Project steps 1 and 2 on everyone else until they leave.
Step 4. Claim victory.
Congratulations on reaching step 3 for the second time in 24 hours. However, you didn't take back your accusation that any kind of sheeple argument stemmed from me. What you did was dissect my account of things and rearrange it full of childishness and even more accusations. Not on kid. I left the conversation yesterday because of your petulant conduct, and I'm afraid I have to leave this one as well.
Hey, I did give you a second chance though :P More then I give most.
Yet again you ignore my posts because you know you have nothing but you're immature, narrow minded view of life.
QuoteBe as annoying a c**t as possible.
Your opinion.
As I've said before, you're a little self indulged.
QuoteStep 2. Jump all over the place.
Actually you're the one who originally brought that up, I just used it against you to prove my point in that your the type of person to think "Its ok for me to do it but you're not allowed to do it to me"
And you proved my point swimmingly, thank you :)
QuoteStep 4. Claim victory.
QuoteHey, I did give you a second chance though :P More then I give most.
Lol isn't that what you did just there? you might as well be talking about yourself in this post sabby :laugh:
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 01, 2014, 04:46:07 AM
*sips mountain dew*
Lol :laugh:
Settle down, everyone. No need for insults and name-calling.
Dark Passenger, I apologize for insulting you.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 03:52:30 AM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Mar 31, 2014, 05:51:32 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Mar 31, 2014, 11:49:43 AM
Going back to this "good and bad on both sides" business, we know that there is good and bad in religion and that a lot of the bad stems from scripture. From where does the bad in being secular come? Sure, you can point fingers at a few atheists misbehaving at street preachers, but where is the real harm and from where does it come on the non-religious side?
Everyone would be living in the now without worry of offending or pleasing some scumbag made up deity. There is no bad in becoming secular. It is truly a flawless system. It is the only way to achieve true happiness in a society.
That's a pretty extreme position dude... and I'm Antitheist, and even I disagree with this. Besides, what is 'true happiness' when applied to a society anyway?
True happiness is emancipation from mental slavery(which is religion). True happiness is losing the fear of death and living the life you have in the now without worry of pleasing and/or angering a deity. True happiness is welcoming death when it comes because that means leaving a world full of irrationality and illogic.
There are many ways to happiness, but saying there is 'true happiness', like some perfect form of it, is like saying someone can be 'truly good' or 'truly bad'. It's a subjective thing you're placing an absolute value on.
People can be perfectly happy and lead a productive and fulfilling life while also believing nonsense.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 03:33:34 PM
There are many ways to happiness, but saying there is 'true happiness', like some perfect form of it, is like saying someone can be 'truly good' or 'truly bad'. It's a subjective thing you're placing an absolute value on.
People can be perfectly happy and lead a productive and fulfilling life while also believing nonsense.
But what they are experiencing isn't happiness, it's blissful ignorance. Happiness is subjective but living by the atheist/humanist methos is a more brighter path in achieving a genuine happy life. Perfection is possible, don't let anyone tell you the opposite.
Dat evil religion got me all chained up over here.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 03:33:34 PM
There are many ways to happiness, but saying there is 'true happiness', like some perfect form of it, is like saying someone can be 'truly good' or 'truly bad'. It's a subjective thing you're placing an absolute value on.
People can be perfectly happy and lead a productive and fulfilling life while also believing nonsense.
But what they are experiencing isn't happiness, it's blissful ignorance. Happiness is subjective but living by the atheist/humanist methos is a more brighter path in achieving a genuine happy life. Perfection is possible, don't let anyone tell you the opposite.
That's a nice opinion you got there, it'd be a shame if I were to disagree with you.
I still disagree with you, but thank you for finally using Humanism instead of Atheism.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 01, 2014, 04:03:22 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 03:33:34 PM
There are many ways to happiness, but saying there is 'true happiness', like some perfect form of it, is like saying someone can be 'truly good' or 'truly bad'. It's a subjective thing you're placing an absolute value on.
People can be perfectly happy and lead a productive and fulfilling life while also believing nonsense.
But what they are experiencing isn't happiness, it's blissful ignorance. Happiness is subjective but living by the atheist/humanist methos is a more brighter path in achieving a genuine happy life. Perfection is possible, don't let anyone tell you the opposite.
That's a nice opinion you got there, it'd be a shame if I were to disagree with you.
An informed opinion nonetheless. Opinions won't matter when the pope decides to wipe out the non believers in a new inquisition with the support of a mormon theocratic dictatorship.
I'd like to say on behalf of the Atheist Leaders, who totally do exist, that they do not share Kirklands position here. That's why he was removed from the community, which also exists in such a way that removing members is a practice.
None of that was not serious.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 01, 2014, 04:03:22 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 03:33:34 PM
There are many ways to happiness, but saying there is 'true happiness', like some perfect form of it, is like saying someone can be 'truly good' or 'truly bad'. It's a subjective thing you're placing an absolute value on.
People can be perfectly happy and lead a productive and fulfilling life while also believing nonsense.
But what they are experiencing isn't happiness, it's blissful ignorance. Happiness is subjective but living by the atheist/humanist methos is a more brighter path in achieving a genuine happy life. Perfection is possible, don't let anyone tell you the opposite.
That's a nice opinion you got there, it'd be a shame if I were to disagree with you.
An informed opinion nonetheless. Opinions won't matter when the pope decides to wipe out the non believers in a new inquisition with the support of a mormon theocratic dictatorship.
hahahahahahahahahahaha
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 01, 2014, 07:41:40 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 01, 2014, 04:03:22 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 03:33:34 PM
There are many ways to happiness, but saying there is 'true happiness', like some perfect form of it, is like saying someone can be 'truly good' or 'truly bad'. It's a subjective thing you're placing an absolute value on.
People can be perfectly happy and lead a productive and fulfilling life while also believing nonsense.
But what they are experiencing isn't happiness, it's blissful ignorance. Happiness is subjective but living by the atheist/humanist methos is a more brighter path in achieving a genuine happy life. Perfection is possible, don't let anyone tell you the opposite.
That's a nice opinion you got there, it'd be a shame if I were to disagree with you.
An informed opinion nonetheless. Opinions won't matter when the pope decides to wipe out the non believers in a new inquisition with the support of a mormon theocratic dictatorship.
hahahahahahahahahahaha
Laugh now, it won't be funny when atheists are targeted by the Vatican/Mormon joint coalition.
Who will strike first? Them or the reptilian aliens? ???
Pope isn't going to work with Mormons.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 05:27:48 PMI'd like to say on behalf of the Atheist Leaders, who totally do exist, that they do not share Kirklands position here.
Kirkland's so-called "positions" don't resemble that of any group that he claims to be a part of. He is either a parody or deliberately dishonest representation of whatever it is he claims to take part in.
Hey guys, just an FYI. I received a report about some tempers flaring up in here. Debates are always welcomed. Let's just be sure to keep cool heads, OK?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 01, 2014, 10:26:55 PM
Hey guys, just an FYI. I received a report about some tempers flaring up in here. Debates are always welcomed. Let's just be sure to keep cool heads, OK?
Man, I'm feeling oppressed.
Doom is raining down on my freedoms.
;)
'ken oath, muthaf**ka. I'ma go patriarchal up in this beotch.
I gotta distract Doom's attention away from this thread for a few hours...
Doom! Hey, Doom! Click on the link! Clicky (http://i.imgur.com/7VlIZAJ.gif)
Jasmine Garcia! good find.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 01, 2014, 09:24:20 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 05:27:48 PMI'd like to say on behalf of the Atheist Leaders, who totally do exist, that they do not share Kirklands position here.
Kirkland's so-called "positions" don't resemble that of any group that he claims to be a part of. He is either a parody or deliberately dishonest representation of whatever it is he claims to take part in.
I don't belong to any existing faction or group nor did I ever profess to belonging to one. I have no reasons to be dishonest about my particular personal brand of slightly extreme neo libertarian gay humanist/atheist leanings.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 11:59:57 PMI don't belong to any existing faction or group nor did I ever profess to belonging to one. I have no reasons to be dishonest about my particular personal brand of slightly extreme neo libertarian gay humanist/atheist leanings.
Organized faction or group, no.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 08:35:48 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 01, 2014, 07:41:40 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 01, 2014, 04:03:22 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 03:33:34 PM
There are many ways to happiness, but saying there is 'true happiness', like some perfect form of it, is like saying someone can be 'truly good' or 'truly bad'. It's a subjective thing you're placing an absolute value on.
People can be perfectly happy and lead a productive and fulfilling life while also believing nonsense.
But what they are experiencing isn't happiness, it's blissful ignorance. Happiness is subjective but living by the atheist/humanist methos is a more brighter path in achieving a genuine happy life. Perfection is possible, don't let anyone tell you the opposite.
That's a nice opinion you got there, it'd be a shame if I were to disagree with you.
An informed opinion nonetheless. Opinions won't matter when the pope decides to wipe out the non believers in a new inquisition with the support of a mormon theocratic dictatorship.
hahahahahahahahahahaha
Laugh now, it won't be funny when atheists are targeted by the Vatican/Mormon joint coalition.
You are either the best troll on Earth or the most bonkers person I've ever seen.
Quote from: Deathbearer on Apr 02, 2014, 03:58:28 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 08:35:48 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 01, 2014, 07:41:40 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 01, 2014, 04:03:22 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 01, 2014, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 03:33:34 PM
There are many ways to happiness, but saying there is 'true happiness', like some perfect form of it, is like saying someone can be 'truly good' or 'truly bad'. It's a subjective thing you're placing an absolute value on.
People can be perfectly happy and lead a productive and fulfilling life while also believing nonsense.
But what they are experiencing isn't happiness, it's blissful ignorance. Happiness is subjective but living by the atheist/humanist methos is a more brighter path in achieving a genuine happy life. Perfection is possible, don't let anyone tell you the opposite.
That's a nice opinion you got there, it'd be a shame if I were to disagree with you.
An informed opinion nonetheless. Opinions won't matter when the pope decides to wipe out the non believers in a new inquisition with the support of a mormon theocratic dictatorship.
hahahahahahahahahahaha
Laugh now, it won't be funny when atheists are targeted by the Vatican/Mormon joint coalition.
You are either the best troll on Earth or the most bonkers person I've ever seen.
Because expressing a semi-radical worldview opinion on a public forum in a thread specifically devoted to this sort of topic is trolling right? I can't help it if people get offended when I say it how it is. Atheists/humanists and other "heretics" need to be at least prepared for church sanctioned violence. It happened in the past and it will most likely happen again as long as the west continues to be held back by the worlds most evil religions.
Plus there's absolutely nothing wrong with being a little bonkers...
I'll prepare for Church sanctioned violence when I see it as a real danger. In the part of the world I live in, in the time that I live in, that is not the case.
I'm not fond of Religion man, but I oppose things that affect us right now, not things that could happen in the future. I mean, opposing the real and immediate effects of Religion in society is the best way to prevent the violence your so worried about.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 02, 2014, 05:35:45 PM
I'll prepare for Church sanctioned violence when I see it as a real danger. In the part of the world I live in, in the time that I live in, that is not the case.
In my part of the world, it is. From what I've been reading, it's becoming a danger in other parts of the world; not just with Xtianity, but also with Islam.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 02, 2014, 05:35:45 PM
I'll prepare for Church sanctioned violence when I see it as a real danger. In the part of the world I live in, in the time that I live in, that is not the case.
I'm not fond of Religion man, but I oppose things that affect us right now, not things that could happen in the future. I mean, opposing the real and immediate effects of Religion in society is the best way to prevent the violence your so worried about.
I'm guilty of being an alarmist weirdo; I'll admit that. I'm just scared because in the United States at least, a political party candidate has to profess a belief in a deity in order to get elected and that just makes every alarm go off in my head. How can we put our trust into someone who believes in imaginary things? It's downright horrifying!
It's a shit situation, I agree, but can you see how that may not justify saying things like "Only Atheists can be happy" ?
Deem muslims gonna git us all!
Religion is used as a scapegoat for lots of actions. Jihadist use it as a terror tactic to validate their brutality and to scare people that follow the same religion they do. Must are merely thugs who want a shot at killing the great devil because they don't think USA or coalition forces need to be meddling in their AO. Some even fight under that as a cover to destabilize the region over time so they have a say in its formation after the coalition occupation is over. Iran used to send bomb squads over into Iraq to help the insurgency thrive and to keep Iraq's government from forming properly. Just cause they want a say. I've also heard about the ISI from Pakistan doing the same shit in Afghanistan for the same reasons. Fought under a religious narrative, but really there is a power grabbing subtext at work there.
Likewise you always got to be sketch about America going to war over freedom when several people in office made bank with the Iraq invasion (not with oil but as contracting corporations).
There is a whole lot of sketch in the world. Question everything. BUT I do feel that religion takes an unnecessary brunt of the derision when just about everything shown to people nowadays has its own agenda.
I'm agnostic and I'm happy, I don't pretend to have the actual answer.
I'm not saying religious people do either.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 02, 2014, 06:37:07 PM
I'm not saying religious people do either.
I'm not saying that either but it's something I despise from both sides.
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10171619_10152437519828132_1530405106_n.jpg)
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 02, 2014, 11:21:58 PM
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10171619_10152437519828132_1530405106_n.jpg
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2F7b6716e34ac38266db4f9f57ed4a2b7f%2Ftumblr_mwzrm2rlOp1qjs7cno1_500.gif&hash=b329896185e76825c130c88dc68a6d3bd0c76a38)
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 02, 2014, 06:32:32 PM
I'm agnostic and I'm happy, I don't pretend to have the actual answer.
Same.
I'm atheist and I'm happy; I don't pretend to have the actual answer.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 02, 2014, 11:21:58 PM
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10171619_10152437519828132_1530405106_n.jpg
There's all the proof you need, lol.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.amuniversal.com%2F33089b6099d00131197c005056a9545d&hash=78fce8d6f24b47c36542cb851698f2f6a9b0b78d)
See? Foreigners know what's up. No wonder they get the jobs, lol.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Feditorial.designtaxi.com%2Fnews-badchilbooks1309%2F10.jpg&hash=6625d44d9a8935647f93e040d1d71d38015d52dc)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsavoiaonline.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F09%2Fslide-24-bad-childrens-books.jpeg&hash=36b4e52986ceea7bc3d799bafe03ff398020c248)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.somethingawful.com%2Finserts%2Farticlepics%2Fphotoshop%2F05-25-07-books%2Fscruffy1.jpg&hash=1eda82ebfef8c1041a72b2b4e0948cae4318967d)
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMjo5f9eiX8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMjo5f9eiX8#ws)
Let this trailer shake your non-belief. This is getting a national wide release, ugh.
I've been waiting for someone else to post that xD I prefer to call it Man of Straw.
I posted it in some other thread (can't remember where).
I'm sure youth groups in churches across the world will be going to see the film on opening day as part of some kind of outing. :P
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 03, 2014, 01:59:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMjo5f9eiX8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMjo5f9eiX8#ws)
Let this trailer shake your non-belief. This is getting a national wide release, ugh.
Who better to promote this movie than the racist guy on the left?
Anyhoo...
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1.0-9/p403x403/1510722_256122571234174_1932508351_n.png)
The movies apparently out, and going by The Cinema Snobs recount, it's as bad as we feared. Basically one big reassuring hug to Christians. I have to say though, the 'villain' of the movie is f**king great. He's so stuffed full of straw, but he has such screen presence and puts so much into the performance.
The video isn't on Youtube yet, so I can't embed it, but it's worth a listen.
http://blip.tv/the-cinema-snob/midnight-screenings-god-s-not-dead-6791760 (http://blip.tv/the-cinema-snob/midnight-screenings-god-s-not-dead-6791760)
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 03, 2014, 01:59:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMjo5f9eiX8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMjo5f9eiX8#ws)
Let this trailer shake your non-belief. This is getting a national wide release, ugh.
Ah Phil Robertson's flock...Love how they were all clean cut and proper before the series and now they are the faces of the right winger bible thumpers.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 01, 2014, 01:10:23 PM
Dark Passenger, I apologize for insulting you.
:) no problem, though you didn't offend me at all.
I also apologise if I offended you, that wasn't my intention.
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 03, 2014, 01:59:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMjo5f9eiX8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMjo5f9eiX8#ws)
Let this trailer shake your non-belief. This is getting a national wide release, ugh.
Hahahahahaha, so many dumb f**king people in the comment sections from both sides.
On a somewhat related note, there's a philosophy professor at my school that believes that her grandma could tell the future by throwing chicken bones and reading the signs or some shit. :laugh:
Stupidity is universal.
I know, the YouTube comments section is the best place to witness it first hand.
And sometimes it gets a diploma.
She gets angry with you if you try to tell her otherwise and will pretty much fail you on the spot.
With my chicken bones Cal I find that you will fail your next Calculus test.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 03, 2014, 05:04:36 PM
With my chicken bones Cal I find that you will fail your next Calculus test.
No I won't because this shit we're doing now is easy. It was only that subject.
The chicken bones disagree.
Saw this on my buddies FB; Another reason to f**king hate the idea of a deity.What kind of deity allows innocent babies to just perish unexpectedly and for no reason? f**king a-hole!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdkkPPBf.png&hash=7e957f227e889a0492aa66032a6fab0056c679a9)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 03, 2014, 05:18:08 PM
Saw this on my buddies FB; Another reason to f**king hate the idea of a deity.What kind of deity allows innocent babies to just perish unexpectedly and for no reason? f**king a-hole!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdkkPPBf.png&hash=7e957f227e889a0492aa66032a6fab0056c679a9)
Why do you hate God?
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 03, 2014, 05:22:01 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 03, 2014, 05:18:08 PM
Saw this on my buddies FB; Another reason to f**king hate the idea of a deity.What kind of deity allows innocent babies to just perish unexpectedly and for no reason? f**king a-hole!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdkkPPBf.png&hash=7e957f227e889a0492aa66032a6fab0056c679a9)
Why do you hate God?
I don't hate god. Hating god would be acknowledging that he/she exists which he/she clearly doesn't. You can't hate something that doesn't exist. I hate the idea of god.
:laugh:
f**k, that is an awesome tattoo. My brother wanted to get a tattoo of our mother after she died that would have used her ashes in the ink, but the family kind of freaked out.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 03, 2014, 05:18:08 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdkkPPBf.png&hash=7e957f227e889a0492aa66032a6fab0056c679a9)
Awwww.
Similarly I have several tattoos of the worms now eating my grandfather.
bbbaaaannnnnnneeeee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kANRk_fshx4#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kANRk_fshx4#ws)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 03, 2014, 05:18:08 PM
Saw this on my buddies FB; Another reason to f**king hate the idea of a deity.What kind of deity allows innocent babies to just perish unexpectedly and for no reason? f**king a-hole!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdkkPPBf.png&hash=7e957f227e889a0492aa66032a6fab0056c679a9)
thats not god thats the devil 8)
That's another thing, the idea of a god and a devil. Good and evil. Black and white. It's so stupid. You can't divide it that way. Just look at American politics. The world is more intricate than that. Even then, if god is this all-powerful thing, why doesn't he just walk into hell and kick Satan's ass? Does the creator of the universe just keep this pain in his ass around for shits n giggles? And if the devil wants you to mess around and go against god, why does he punish you once you get to his place? Aren't you on his side? It's so flawed.
QuoteJust look at American politics. The world is more intricate than that.
Everything is more intricate than American politics.
Quote from: Gilfryd on Apr 03, 2014, 11:20:35 PM
That's another thing, the idea of a god and a devil. Good and evil. Black and white. It's so stupid. You can't divide it that way. Just look at American politics. The world is more intricate than that. Even then, if god is this all-powerful thing, why doesn't he just walk into hell and kick Satan's ass? Does the creator of the universe just keep this pain in his ass around for shits n giggles? And if the devil wants you to mess around and go against god, why does he punish you once you get to his place? Aren't you on his side? It's so flawed.
Perhaps he doesn't want to intrude on Satan's "free will?" :P
Quote from: SM on Apr 03, 2014, 11:22:28 PM
QuoteJust look at American politics. The world is more intricate than that.
Everything is more intricate than American politics.
Including American politics.
Quote from: Gilfryd on Apr 03, 2014, 11:20:35 PM
That's another thing, the idea of a god and a devil. Good and evil. Black and white. It's so stupid. You can't divide it that way. Just look at American politics. The world is more intricate than that. Even then, if god is this all-powerful thing, why doesn't he just walk into hell and kick Satan's ass? Does the creator of the universe just keep this pain in his ass around for shits n giggles? And if the devil wants you to mess around and go against god, why does he punish you once you get to his place? Aren't you on his side? It's so flawed.
Well in reality, there really is only good and evil. There are no gray areas. You can lump all human behavior into those two categories. Everyone can agree that Nazi Germany was evil and everyone can agree that the allies were forces of good. Richard Dawkins is a f**king saint whereas the pope is the most evil motherf**ker there ever was.
Haha you're so dumb.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 04, 2014, 12:58:11 PMWell in reality, there really is only good and evil. There are no gray areas.
Spoken like a true believer of the Abrahamic god.
Yeah, I could throw out any number of topics right now that would divide the thread and probably spawn a whole new one just to continue with the creation of greys.
Absolute morality is a myth for people who don't like facing reality.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 04, 2014, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 04, 2014, 12:58:11 PMWell in reality, there really is only good and evil. There are no gray areas.
Spoken like a true believer of the Abrahamic god.
So logically, there is a gray area? How can one be evil and good at the same time? Are you saying Hitler had good in him? What about the Boston terrorists or the 9/11'ers? You're either completely good or consumed by evil.
You're using extreme examples of moral bankruptcy to demonstrate that all morality is simplistic?
Hitler? Evil f**kwit, we agree.
Taliban who hijacked the plane? Evil f**kwits, we agree.
The guy on the street who shot a known pedophile after the legal system failed to deal with him for over a decade? Do we agree on that? Can we? Was this man justified? Was he not? If he took it too far, does this make him evil? If so, why not?
See what just happened? That was a moment of moral complexity. It's a question that we would not come to a neat and tidy consensus on. If true morality existed, we would all be able to say 'he's bad' or 'he's good' with zero discussion, but the matter is more complicated then that. Believing otherwise is delusional.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 04, 2014, 02:54:40 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 04, 2014, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 04, 2014, 12:58:11 PMWell in reality, there really is only good and evil. There are no gray areas.
Spoken like a true believer of the Abrahamic god.
So logically, there is a gray area? How can one be evil and good at the same time? Are you saying Hitler had good in him? What about the Boston terrorists or the 9/11'ers? You're either completely good or consumed by evil.
Wrong.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 04, 2014, 03:06:41 PM
You're using extreme examples of moral bankruptcy to demonstrate that all morality is simplistic?
Hitler? Evil f**kwit, we agree.
Taliban who hijacked the plane? Evil f**kwits, we agree.
The guy on the street who shot a known pedophile after the legal system failed to deal with him for over a decade? Do we agree on that? Can we? Was this man justified? Was he not? If he took it too far, does this make him evil? If so, why not?
See what just happened? That was a moment of moral complexity. It's a question that we would not come to a neat and tidy consensus on. If true morality existed, we would all be able to say 'he's bad' or 'he's good' with zero discussion, but the matter is more complicated then that. Believing otherwise is delusional.
I guess you're right. In the end, it's not going to matter anyway. We're all going to have the same fate as Hitler and the terrorists. Rotting in the f**king ground... though hopefully with a clear conscience and being remembered for the good we did and not the horrific atrocities committed by the above.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WHAT IS THIS
Quote from: Aspie on Apr 04, 2014, 03:43:14 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WHAT IS THIS
Just Kirkland showing off his stupidity.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 04, 2014, 12:58:11 PM
Everyone can agree that Nazi Germany was evil.
Nope Captain America taught me it wasn't the nazi's it's Hydra... Everything evil in the world is Hydra, dog got run over by a car... Hydra.
Quote from: Rong on Apr 04, 2014, 06:48:14 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 04, 2014, 12:58:11 PM
Everyone can agree that Nazi Germany was evil.
Nope Captain America taught me it wasn't the nazi's it's Hydra... Everything evil in the world is Hydra, dog got run over by a car... Hydra.
A nice guy really likes a girl but gets friend zoned... HYDRA!
You're learning rich.
There were no Taliban responsible for 9/11. That was Al Qaeda. An offshoot of Hydra.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 04, 2014, 06:58:30 PM
There were no Taliban responsible for 9/11. That was Al Qaeda. An offshoot of Hydra.
Yep definitely hydra, pretty sure that's the plot outline for captain America 3
Fellow atheists, greetings.
what's the atheist thread password, mr. sin
Have you been approved by AronRa, Thunderfoot, PZ Meyers and DPRJones? You should have got your decoder ring in the mail.
Quote from: Aspie on Apr 05, 2014, 11:53:21 PM
what's the atheist thread password, mr. sin
I don't have one.. My apologies. I take it I am not allowed to join unless approved? That seems rather.... Exclusive... :/
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 06, 2014, 12:31:11 AM
Quote from: Aspie on Apr 05, 2014, 11:53:21 PM
what's the atheist thread password, mr. sin
I don't have one.. My apologies. I take it I am not allowed to join unless approved? That seems rather.... Exclusive... :/
They're only taking the piss, because your introduction was so formal you see.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 06, 2014, 12:36:39 AM
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 06, 2014, 12:31:11 AM
Quote from: Aspie on Apr 05, 2014, 11:53:21 PM
what's the atheist thread password, mr. sin
I don't have one.. My apologies. I take it I am not allowed to join unless approved? That seems rather.... Exclusive... :/
They're only taking the piss, because your introduction was so formal you see.
I was just notified of that, haha. My humor will evolve as time goes on. :D
ALL RIGHT WHO PMed HIM
Me.
Damn it Sabby I was about to PM him a list of phony passwords for each thread :P
Quote from: Aspie on Apr 06, 2014, 12:51:50 AM
Damn it Sabby I was about to PM him a list of phony passwords for each thread :P
The resident trickster, I presume? I will keep my eye on you, haha. o_O
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 06, 2014, 01:00:57 AM
Quote from: Aspie on Apr 06, 2014, 12:51:50 AM
Damn it Sabby I was about to PM him a list of phony passwords for each thread :P
The resident trickster, I presume? I will keep my eye on you, haha. o_O
There's only one thing you need to know about Aspie.
Spoiler
Aspie sucks.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 06, 2014, 01:00:57 AM
Quote from: Aspie on Apr 06, 2014, 12:51:50 AM
Damn it Sabby I was about to PM him a list of phony passwords for each thread :P
The resident trickster, I presume? I will keep my eye on you, haha. o_O
Haha, I f**king love this guy. His formality is hilarious.
Greetings Mr. Sin. I am Mr. BANE. You may call me Grog. My fingers are quick and my mind quicker. May I ask your favourite film? Or would this simply be too much of an intrusion?
Quote from: BANE on Apr 06, 2014, 01:10:49 AM
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 06, 2014, 01:00:57 AM
Quote from: Aspie on Apr 06, 2014, 12:51:50 AM
Damn it Sabby I was about to PM him a list of phony passwords for each thread :P
The resident trickster, I presume? I will keep my eye on you, haha. o_O
Haha, I f**king love this guy. His formality is hilarious.
Greetings Mr. Sin. I am Mr. BANE. You may call me Grog. My fingers are quick and my mind quicker. May I ask your favourite film? Or would this simply be too much of an intrusion?
Hello there, Grog. Glad to see your finger and mind connection is in working order. My favorite film is ALIENS, of course. I think you mistake my politeness for some sort of autonomous social-ineptitude. I don't do the forum thing, so I suppose I have a lot to learn about not trying to be pleasant, perhaps? :D
So far everyone here is really great, don't get me wrong, I suppose I don't see whats hilarious about formality... that being said, I don't think finding it hilarious is in and of itself a bad thing, I just don't understand it, I suppose. :)
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 06, 2014, 01:05:27 AM
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 06, 2014, 01:00:57 AM
Quote from: Aspie on Apr 06, 2014, 12:51:50 AM
Damn it Sabby I was about to PM him a list of phony passwords for each thread :P
The resident trickster, I presume? I will keep my eye on you, haha. o_O
There's only one thing you need to know about Aspie.
Spoiler
Aspie sucks.
I will make a note of his suckyness, but for the record, Aspie, you seem like a good guy to me.
There is nobody bad on these forums.
Except the non believers.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 06, 2014, 06:42:40 PM
There is nobody bad on these forums.
Except the believers.
Fixed.
^ This guy's a villain for sure.
Stay away from Erik Mr. Sin.
Quote from: BANE on Apr 06, 2014, 06:47:30 PM
^ This guy's a villain for sure.
Stay away from Erik Mr. Sin.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I loving shooting the wind but seriously, the whole god thing was made up by a bunch of royal old dudes a long, long time ago.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Apr 07, 2014, 11:39:42 AMI loving shooting the wind but seriously, the whole god thing was made up by a bunch of royal old dudes a long, long time ago.
Shepherds.
Quote from: BANE on Apr 06, 2014, 06:47:30 PM
^ This guy's a villain for sure.
Stay away from Erik Mr. Sin.
He seems nice enough. I don't judge someone based on their forum behavior, as I'm discovering forum settings are a safe-haven for this strange id that devalues simple polite gestures, in some cases, that is. Colorful characters abound here.
You all seem very awesome, and I have no doubt that many of you would make great friends in the real world regardless of the semi-mean spirited things that get written. It's all in good fun.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 07, 2014, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: BANE on Apr 06, 2014, 06:47:30 PM
^ This guy's a villain for sure.
Stay away from Erik Mr. Sin.
He seems nice enough. I don't judge someone based on their forum behavior, as I'm discovering forum settings are a safe-haven for this strange id that devalues simple polite gestures, in some cases, that is. Colorful characters abound here.
You all seem very awesome, and I have no doubt that many of you would make great friends in the real world regardless of the semi-mean spirited things that get written. It's all in good fun.
I quite like this one. Can we keep him?
I'm pretty sure we are all assholes in real life. Forums just bring it out more often. :laugh:
We're all assholes in the right conditions, just some of us are less discriminating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-bi3Ho8X3w# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-bi3Ho8X3w#)
I laughed so hard I doubled over in pain from the migraine it set off xD
Quote from: whiterabbit on Apr 07, 2014, 08:22:03 PM
I'm pretty sure we are all assholes in real life. Forums just bring it out more often. :laugh:
This is true, I'm certain I'm not everyone's cup of tea! but I try to get along with everyone. As they say my personality is who I am, but my attitude depends on who you are. :)
Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Apr 07, 2014, 06:54:33 PM
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 07, 2014, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: BANE on Apr 06, 2014, 06:47:30 PM
^ This guy's a villain for sure.
Stay away from Erik Mr. Sin.
He seems nice enough. I don't judge someone based on their forum behavior, as I'm discovering forum settings are a safe-haven for this strange id that devalues simple polite gestures, in some cases, that is. Colorful characters abound here.
You all seem very awesome, and I have no doubt that many of you would make great friends in the real world regardless of the semi-mean spirited things that get written. It's all in good fun.
I quite like this one. Can we keep him?
Greetings, Bjorn! Thanks for the kind words.
people's persona's online are projections mostly.. does anyone think im actually like this in real life... shutupbane.jpg
You're probz mofookin' teddy bear in real life Rong.
I can sense it.
Quote from: Rong on Apr 08, 2014, 12:49:37 AM
people's persona's online are projections mostly.. does anyone think im actually like this in real life... shutupbane.jpg
Haha you're probably 100% like this in real life. Your wedding vows were probably just you holding up successive printouts of sloth memes.
Quote from: BANE on Apr 08, 2014, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: Rong on Apr 08, 2014, 12:49:37 AM
people's persona's online are projections mostly.. does anyone think im actually like this in real life... shutupbane.jpg
Haha you're probably 100% like this in real life. Your wedding vows were probably just you holding up successive printouts of sloth memes.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HOLY SHIT
Quote from: BANE on Apr 08, 2014, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: Rong on Apr 08, 2014, 12:49:37 AM
people's persona's online are projections mostly.. does anyone think im actually like this in real life... shutupbane.jpg
Haha you're probably 100% like this in real life. Your wedding vows were probably just you holding up successive printouts of sloth memes.
HAHHAHA yes you know me too well sir.
MFW
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2F0c5c1ad915c5294bdb33197a97780295%2Ftumblr_mn85i0l2991s7yyqno1_500.jpg&hash=caaf6418a69e3f59a9c958e7369190ac663332c1)
Quote from: BANE on Apr 08, 2014, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: Rong on Apr 08, 2014, 12:49:37 AM
people's persona's online are projections mostly.. does anyone think im actually like this in real life... shutupbane.jpg
Haha you're probably 100% like this in real life. Your wedding vows were probably just you holding up successive printouts of sloth memes.
;D
WTF?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lm97yxE1UQ1qb4pnn.gif&hash=bfc639d762b25c3b0eefc44e30f7cf7d4d71112c)
Kirkland, please...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2F430045e3a6fbb72ae87f092e7a45c97b%2Ftumblr_inline_mf7zqirMho1qimqky.jpg&hash=38d9e1722185a108af0faf14df1a02c90ab63c0d)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 01:36:00 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 09, 2014, 01:15:24 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 01:09:22 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 09, 2014, 12:53:20 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 12:52:10 PMI'm gay.
So you say.
Want to be gay with me?
Sorry, I don't swing that way.
but I thought all atheists were at least bi-curious?
And you thought wrong.
Oh hi, what's going on in he-
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmashable.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2Fblackadder-confused.gif&hash=97ee9ee054502ab54a35760709c5be2f9781927a)
I don't even know what's happening.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 09, 2014, 01:42:43 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 01:36:00 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 09, 2014, 01:15:24 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 01:09:22 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 09, 2014, 12:53:20 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 12:52:10 PMI'm gay.
So you say.
Want to be gay with me?
Sorry, I don't swing that way.
but I thought all atheists were at least bi-curious?
And you thought wrong.
So I guess the hundred or so gay dudes I know who happen to be gay and atheist are an anomaly then? You underestimate the appeal of atheism to homosexuals. I know deep down that you're intrigued at the thought of Richard Dawkins and James Randi getting it on! :D
That's faulty logic... homosexuals can find appeal in Religion as well. Look at all the Pray the Gay Away centers. Some people aren't in a situation where they can or want to come to terms with their sexuality, so Religion can offer them an escape from that.
Then again, Religion is predatory, so just about any crisis of identity is weak to it.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 01:59:18 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 09, 2014, 01:42:43 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 01:36:00 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 09, 2014, 01:15:24 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 01:09:22 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 09, 2014, 12:53:20 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 12:52:10 PMI'm gay.
So you say.
Want to be gay with me?
Sorry, I don't swing that way.
but I thought all atheists were at least bi-curious?
And you thought wrong.
So I guess the hundred or so gay dudes I know who happen to be gay and atheist are an anomaly then? You underestimate the appeal of atheism to homosexuals. I know deep down that you're intrigued at the thought of Richard Dawkins and James Randi getting it on! :D
These "hundred or so"; exactly how many people in the U.S. are atheists? I think you'll find that your "hundred or so" are barely a tiny fraction.
Haha this is just Kirkland's elaborate way of bragging about the number of men he's bummed.
Quote from: BANE on Apr 09, 2014, 02:20:22 PM
Haha this is just Kirkland's elaborate way of bragging about the number of men he's bummed.
he might be a bottom Bane.
He's just posting his usual bullshit about how he pretends to think that the world is.
Quote from: Rong on Apr 09, 2014, 02:47:26 PM
Quote from: BANE on Apr 09, 2014, 02:20:22 PM
Haha this is just Kirkland's elaborate way of bragging about the number of men he's bummed.
he might be a bottom Bane.
The concepts of top/bottom in homo-relationships are mostly B/S. Sure there are some who choose to be one or the other but the majority do not fit any clear cut gender role dammit.
Okay, as the one who started this topic, can I please ask we ditch this detour?
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 03:06:28 PM
Quote from: Rong on Apr 09, 2014, 02:47:26 PM
Quote from: BANE on Apr 09, 2014, 02:20:22 PM
Haha this is just Kirkland's elaborate way of bragging about the number of men he's bummed.
he might be a bottom Bane.
The concepts of top/bottom in homo-relationships are mostly B/S. Sure there are some who choose to be one or the other but the majority do not fit any clear cut gender role dammit.
Definitely bottom.
Quote from: BANE on Apr 09, 2014, 03:15:51 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 03:06:28 PM
Quote from: Rong on Apr 09, 2014, 02:47:26 PM
Quote from: BANE on Apr 09, 2014, 02:20:22 PM
Haha this is just Kirkland's elaborate way of bragging about the number of men he's bummed.
he might be a bottom Bane.
The concepts of top/bottom in homo-relationships are mostly B/S. Sure there are some who choose to be one or the other but the majority do not fit any clear cut gender role dammit.
Definitely bottom.
More like versatile if a label had to be applied.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 09, 2014, 01:48:25 PM
Oh hi, what's going on in he-
http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/blackadder-confused.gif
This post made my day.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 09, 2014, 01:48:25 PMhttp://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/blackadder-confused.gif
The forum's reaction to Kirkland's posts.
Well you two were just gaying it up so I had to see what all the fuss was about.
Quote from: BANE on Apr 09, 2014, 03:15:51 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 09, 2014, 03:06:28 PM
Quote from: Rong on Apr 09, 2014, 02:47:26 PM
Quote from: BANE on Apr 09, 2014, 02:20:22 PM
Haha this is just Kirkland's elaborate way of bragging about the number of men he's bummed.
he might be a bottom Bane.
The concepts of top/bottom in homo-relationships are mostly B/S. Sure there are some who choose to be one or the other but the majority do not fit any clear cut gender role dammit.
Definitely bottom.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.absoluteastronomy.com%2Fimages%2Ftopicimages%2Fe%2Fed%2Fedmund_blackadder.gif&hash=bf2d4366eacb58f969933559c2469f206e3acf8f)
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 10, 2014, 01:49:17 AM
Well you two were just gaying it up so I had to see what all the fuss was about.
He was gaying it up. I just walked away.
Back on topic, some "Jesus & Mo"...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdarkgate.net%2Fcomic%2Fimages%2Fjesusandmo%2F1397056769.png&hash=8c8bb80564d83b6535103237d9e75c5c47c21d51)
people just need to watch ep 2 of COSMOS to see the hard solid truth of the world. science fact.
Quote from: Vepariga on Apr 10, 2014, 12:32:40 PMpeople just need to watch ep 2 of COSMOS to see the hard solid truth of the world. science fact.
People just need to ask themselves if the reason why they hang on to an idea is only because they like it.
oooooooc kill'em maledoro
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 10, 2014, 12:39:53 PM
Quote from: Vepariga on Apr 10, 2014, 12:32:40 PMpeople just need to watch ep 2 of COSMOS to see the hard solid truth of the world. science fact.
People just need to ask themselves if the reason why they hang on to an idea is only because they like it.
I like the idea of you & I taking on the worlds religions side by side "Sacred Band of Thebes style" ;)
I always figured mal for one of the Four Horsemen.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 10, 2014, 01:54:46 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 10, 2014, 12:39:53 PM
Quote from: Vepariga on Apr 10, 2014, 12:32:40 PMpeople just need to watch ep 2 of COSMOS to see the hard solid truth of the world. science fact.
People just need to ask themselves if the reason why they hang on to an idea is only because they like it.
I like the idea of you & I taking on the worlds religions side by side "Sacred Band of Thebes style" ;)
Haha and you'd be mal's steed.
'Cause you're bottom. ;)
Speaking of Cosmos... (http://thedailybanter.com/2014/03/the-christian-zealot-reaction-to-last-nights-cosmos-debut-is-about-what-youd-expect/)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbanter.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2FScreen-Shot-2014-03-10-at-5.22.08-PM.png&hash=784a083fde934455e5d08ea69146a441984ea2a1)
Personally, I prefer the Lunar Bukkake Theory ;)
Morons disgust me.
#MoreThenSpaceDust
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 10, 2014, 05:51:58 PM
Morons disgust me.
God will be kind to you when all ends.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 10, 2014, 02:31:59 PM
I always figured mal for one of the Four Horsemen.
You are what you drink... (http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/27798/76227/)
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 10, 2014, 05:27:11 PM
Speaking of Cosmos... (http://thedailybanter.com/2014/03/the-christian-zealot-reaction-to-last-nights-cosmos-debut-is-about-what-youd-expect/)
http://banter.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Screen-Shot-2014-03-10-at-5.22.08-PM.pngPersonally, I prefer the Lunar Bukkake Theory ;)
And the "Cosmos" deniers like the Loony Butthurt Theory.
Too bad the guy who came up with the theory (though the name was coined by Thunderfoot) hasn't been relevant for a while. NephilimFree was a very entertaining pervert apologist posing as a scientist.
The Lunar Bukkake Theory was that there was a layer of water underneath the Earths crust. When the Great Flood happened, God split the crust and the immense water pressure created a jet powerful enough to breach Earths atmosphere, which hit the Moon. The whole thing was supposed to explain why a dead rock in space had life sustaining water on it and where all the flood waters receded to.
Aren't Apologetics fun?
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 10, 2014, 09:57:51 PMAren't Apologetics fun?
If you're serious about them, no. If you do it for shits and giggles, yes. One of the reasons I stopped believing is that I had to jump through too many logic hoops to convince myself of my faith.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 10, 2014, 10:08:01 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 10, 2014, 09:57:51 PMAren't Apologetics fun?
If you're serious about them, no. If you do it for shits and giggles, yes. One of the reasons I stopped believing is that I had to jump through too many logic hoops to convince myself of my faith.
Did this "conversion" happen gradually or was it a spur of the moment realization?
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 10, 2014, 11:54:09 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 10, 2014, 10:08:01 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 10, 2014, 09:57:51 PMAren't Apologetics fun?
If you're serious about them, no. If you do it for shits and giggles, yes. One of the reasons I stopped believing is that I had to jump through too many logic hoops to convince myself of my faith.
Did this "conversion" happen gradually or was it a spur of the moment realization?
It was gradual, but peppered with little spurs.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 10, 2014, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: BANE on Apr 10, 2014, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 10, 2014, 05:51:58 PM
Morons disgust me.
God will be kind to you when all ends.
He already is. ;)
#Godundermyfeet
For your dignity I hope you're right and God isn't real
Otherwise you just look like a fool..
because if I was some being of infinite power, people like you would be good for a scoff and that's it.
Considering the unfathomable vastness of the universe,the unlimited amount of worlds. what makes Earth so special? 'because we are on it' is an ignorant,yet human answer.
Is 'God' a perfect being? or is he Human? if he is Perfect,he would have no concept of imperfection,so if we where to be like him,we would be perfect too. the entire world will be perfect. but it isnt.
God is not 'all knowing' ,if he was all knowing,he wouldnt have had half his angels follow lucifer and surprise attack him. He isnt some univeresal sized collosus as he couldnt even kill lucifer.
What kind of 'God' tells a man to kill his family becuase they dont beleive? Why would people believe in a 'God' that brings a child into the world just to make them suffer before they die,never experiancing any joy in life.
Why do people live in the 'Fear of God' , why do people want to put there faith in a celestial Dictator?
These questions flow through my mind all the time.
Quote from: Dark Passenger on Apr 11, 2014, 07:09:04 AM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 10, 2014, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: BANE on Apr 10, 2014, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 10, 2014, 05:51:58 PM
Morons disgust me.
God will be kind to you when all ends.
He already is. ;)
#Godundermyfeet
For your dignity I hope you're right and God isn't real
Otherwise you just look like a fool..
because if I was some being of infinite power, people like you would be good for a scoff and that's it.
Well, apparently God loves everyone... so... :laugh:
Quote from: Dark Passenger on Apr 11, 2014, 07:09:04 AM
For your dignity I hope you're right and God isn't real
Otherwise you just look like a fool..
because if I was some being of infinite power, people like you would be good for a scoff and that's it.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-JNvHrVlMr90%2FUXnQcO92RUI%2FAAAAAAAAAG8%2FKyYc8PWc6Gw%2Fs1600%2F87Ybt.jpg&hash=0ea78d4b5329a4d3e111f1e9d691af59b3fa7751)
Quote from: Vickers on Apr 11, 2014, 12:25:49 PMWell, apparently God loves everyone... so... :laugh:
It depends on which part of the Bible you read.
Anyone care to explain how the god of Islam, Christianity, Judaism and Football are actually the same guy?
Quote from: whiterabbit on Apr 11, 2014, 12:35:21 PM
Anyone care to explain how the god of Islam, Christianity, Judaism and Football are actually the same guy?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi839.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz314%2FAintGotTime2Bleed%2FMasterdisguise_zps4e14ff3f.png&hash=18d97d4b393c1d7e73dcad1170dd5fbbb2b71e35)
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 11, 2014, 12:32:21 PM
Quote from: Vickers on Apr 11, 2014, 12:25:49 PMWell, apparently God loves everyone... so... :laugh:
It depends on which part of the Bible you read.
True. Ah, the contradictions...
Quote from: whiterabbit on Apr 11, 2014, 12:35:21 PMAnyone care to explain how the god of Islam, Christianity, Judaism and Football are actually the same guy?
Simple: "God prefers
us and not you."
Quote from: Vickers on Apr 11, 2014, 12:54:56 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 11, 2014, 12:32:21 PM
Quote from: Vickers on Apr 11, 2014, 12:25:49 PMWell, apparently God loves everyone... so... :laugh:
It depends on which part of the Bible you read.
True. Ah, the contradictions...
*Alex Trebek voice*
"I'm sorry, but the word we're looking for here is 'interpretations'. 'Interpretations'. You still have control of the board."
;)
But, yes, they are contradictions.
(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/v/t1.0-9/1610099_792771604085579_227616961_n.jpg?oh=9e944825c448337ad48f3df5cc49ab78&oe=53CC7AA3)
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 11, 2014, 12:15:33 AM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 10, 2014, 11:54:09 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 10, 2014, 10:08:01 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 10, 2014, 09:57:51 PMAren't Apologetics fun?
If you're serious about them, no. If you do it for shits and giggles, yes. One of the reasons I stopped believing is that I had to jump through too many logic hoops to convince myself of my faith.
Did this "conversion" happen gradually or was it a spur of the moment realization?
It was gradual, but peppered with little spurs.
About how old were you? I was never really religious from the get-go though I remember there was a neighbor of mine who would go around saying "my dad said there's no such thing as god" and that sort of upset me. I was never "forced" to go to church and my parental figures weren't religious. You would be surprised over how much influence parents have over their offsprings religious/spiritual leanings. I feel so horrible and sick when I see little children going to church and spewing all that bible bullshit. It's brainwashing at it's finest...or worst depending on how you interpret it. Everyone starts off as an atheist.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 11, 2014, 01:34:31 PM
About how old were you?
Like I said, it was gradual. It started when I was a kid and I was free of faith by my mid-20s.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 11, 2014, 01:37:08 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 11, 2014, 01:34:31 PM
About how old were you?
Like I said, it was gradual. It started when I was a kid and I was free of faith by my mid-20s.
Same here. Well it started when I was a teenager and I was pretty much an atheist by around 21.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atheistmemebase.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2F207-Lets-stop-arguing-with-fundies.jpg&hash=2bc18a61279a175e228795152b483c14ab576eee)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atheistmemebase.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2F189-Word-of-God.jpg&hash=53024dce049bd977aebf055f77aabe2c62c9da58)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atheistmemebase.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2F188-Illogical-Religion.jpg&hash=7c3c0ccfa6dca277e75934d37ff0e0ae7758a370)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atheistmemebase.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2F187-Water-into-wine.jpg&hash=9b0821dfc141d4e9479fcc29432fd89b03653abd)
Jesus was Jewish. Most jewish people look pretty white.
Unless you subscribe to the theory that white jewish people stole the jewish label from black people.
I like believing Jesus was black because it's fun listening to people cry about it.
Yeah, pointlessly provoking people is always fun.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 11, 2014, 01:37:08 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 11, 2014, 01:34:31 PM
About how old were you?
Like I said, it was gradual. It started when I was a kid and I was free of faith by my mid-20s.
Did you by chance take anything that helped you shed the shackles? I don't condone drug use by any means but I would be a dammed liar if I told you a certain creation of Albert Hoffman's didn't help me see the "light".
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 11, 2014, 02:35:15 PM
http://www.atheistmemebase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/207-Lets-stop-arguing-with-fundies.jpg
I agree with this one.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 11, 2014, 03:26:29 PM
Yeah, pointlessly provoking festering worms is always fun.
In this case.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 11, 2014, 02:51:14 PM
Jesus was Jewish. Most jewish people look pretty white.
Unless you subscribe to the theory that white jewish people stole the jewish label from black people.
Maybe these days due to Russian/Ukranian Jews, European Jews etc. they look white. But back in the Jesus days when all Jews were Semitic people (which includes Arabs as well), Jews did not look like the Jewish people you see in parts of NYC or even modern Israel. People in that region back then looked either Middle-Eastern or North-African. So the chances of him being a blonde/blue eyed surfer dude is pretty damn slim (just like the possibility of him being a sub-Saharan black person). In other words he would've defenitely been considered some kind of "person of color", i.e. not "white", if he lived today.
As a mythical person however he could/cab be of any ethnicity out there. The "funny" thing though is that the increasing Western imprint and influence on Christianity and the world over the last 800+ years has made the interpretation of good ol Jessie Godson as white the dominating and most widespread one.
Sorry about the OT.
Wasn't really trying to argue that he was white just that he wasn't black either.
Middle Eastern is a happy medium in which bronze skin actually applies.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 11, 2014, 04:41:23 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 11, 2014, 04:38:09 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 11, 2014, 03:26:29 PM
Yeah, pointlessly provoking festering worms is always fun.
In this case.
What a great mentality.
You take me far too seriously. :laugh:
You can laugh and poke fun at anyone.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 11, 2014, 04:38:09 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 11, 2014, 03:26:29 PM
Yeah, pointlessly provoking festering worms is always fun.
In this case.
Haha come on now that's the weakest insult ever.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 11, 2014, 03:52:30 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 11, 2014, 02:35:15 PM
http://www.atheistmemebase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/207-Lets-stop-arguing-with-fundies.jpg
I agree with this one.
I hate this....what if it takes another 1,000 years for Christianity to blow over?
Then it will. *Shrug*
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 11, 2014, 04:58:29 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 11, 2014, 04:41:23 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 11, 2014, 04:38:09 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 11, 2014, 03:26:29 PM
Yeah, pointlessly provoking festering worms is always fun.
In this case.
What a great mentality.
You take me far too seriously. :laugh:
You can laugh and poke fun at anyone.
I don't take anything seriously, unfortunately.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 11, 2014, 06:00:57 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 11, 2014, 03:52:30 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 11, 2014, 02:35:15 PM
http://www.atheistmemebase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/207-Lets-stop-arguing-with-fundies.jpg
I agree with this one.
I hate this....what if it takes another 1,000 years for Christianity to blow over?
What if nobody gives a f**k?
I've said this in the past, but it bears repeating. Religion is not something that will just 'go away'. It doesn't fade and die over time, and you can't muscle it out either. The only way to remove Religion (or more accurately, reduce it to a harmless form of personal worship) is to improve the quality of the population.
Improve the living conditions, opportunities, happiness and the overall intelligence of a people and the need for superstition disappears. That's how you get rid of Religion, by making the world better.
Kirkland, from one Antitheist to another, I think you really need to rethink some of your positions.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 11, 2014, 06:27:56 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 11, 2014, 04:58:29 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 11, 2014, 04:41:23 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 11, 2014, 04:38:09 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 11, 2014, 03:26:29 PM
Yeah, pointlessly provoking festering worms is always fun.
In this case.
What a great mentality.
You take me far too seriously. :laugh:
You can laugh and poke fun at anyone.
I don't take anything seriously, unfortunately.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 11, 2014, 06:00:57 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 11, 2014, 03:52:30 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 11, 2014, 02:35:15 PM
http://www.atheistmemebase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/207-Lets-stop-arguing-with-fundies.jpg
I agree with this one.
I hate this....what if it takes another 1,000 years for Christianity to blow over?
What if nobody gives a f**k?
That's great....let humanity get held back even more longer. f**k that bullshit.
I do not know if this is the most appropriate place for this but whatever. I honestly do not know what my system of belief is anymore. Like its all over the place. I am not religious, I was raised in a Christan household but it never stuck with me and after the various realizations I denounced it in my early teens. Then I became wiccan but I am not faithful to it much anymore. But I still enjoy it but I will not let it run my life. I do believe in ...something but I also believe in science and logic. But my views and ideals are mostly (at least I think) atheist. I do believe that Christianity and most other big name religious are a problem despite what they say. They hinder some types of progress and it does piss me off. But then again I have my own system of believes that stem from various places such as wicca. I still believe in supernatural things, but i believe in evolution and the big bang. What am I? I am sorry if this made no sense I guess this was kinda a vent.
Quote from: Predator Queen on Apr 11, 2014, 11:40:03 PM
I do not know if this is the most appropriate place for this but whatever. I honestly do not know what my system of belief is anymore. Like its all over the place. I am not religious, I was raised in a Christan household but it never stuck with me and after the various realizations I denounced it in my early teens. Then I became wiccan but I am not faithful to it much anymore. But I still enjoy it but I will not let it run my life. I do believe in ...something but I also believe in science and logic. But my views and ideals are mostly (at least I think) atheist. I do believe that Christianity and most other big name religious are a problem despite what they say. They hinder some types of progress and it does piss me off. But then again I have my own system of believes that stem from various places such as wicca. I still believe in supernatural things, but i believe in evolution and the big bang. What am I? I am sorry if this made no sense I guess this was kinda a vent.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mamamia.com.au%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Ftumblr_mme9a3r8LN1rftd23o1_500.gif&hash=fc65d3ead0569ab5f24ed608a91d5c5bbe8b5ed8)
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mamamia.com.au%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Ftumblr_mme9a3r8LN1rftd23o2_500.gif&hash=9ba925a6ee810c10c43938ce8d952664064e8a18)
Quote from: Predator Queen on Apr 11, 2014, 11:40:03 PM
What am I? I am sorry if this made no sense I guess this was kinda a vent.
I believe you answered you're own question earlier.
Quote from: Predator QueenBut then again I have my own system of believes that stem from various places such as wicca
Everyone forms their own beliefs and morals, some just choose to credit them to something else, and end up having a lot of extra baggage sneak in along with that. Finding a name to credit your beliefs has never been important, what's important is keeping good standards of information to make sure you adopt beliefs for good reasons.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 11, 2014, 02:51:14 PM
Jesus was Jewish. Most jewish people look pretty white.
Since "Jewish" is a religious descriptor and not an ethnic one,
anybody could "look Jewish". The ones who "look pretty white" are of families who had emigrated from European countries rather than from the Middle East. In the (alleged) time of Jesus, Jews were pretty much in the Middle East. (Sorry, I read
SBE's response after writing this.)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 11, 2014, 03:31:55 PMDid you by chance take anything that helped you shed the shackles?
Are you taking something now?
Quote from: Predator Queen on Apr 11, 2014, 11:40:03 PM
I do not know if this is the most appropriate place for this but whatever. I honestly do not know what my system of belief is anymore. Like its all over the place. I am not religious, I was raised in a Christan household but it never stuck with me and after the various realizations I denounced it in my early teens. Then I became wiccan but I am not faithful to it much anymore. But I still enjoy it but I will not let it run my life. I do believe in ...something but I also believe in science and logic. But my views and ideals are mostly (at least I think) atheist. I do believe that Christianity and most other big name religious are a problem despite what they say. They hinder some types of progress and it does piss me off. But then again I have my own system of believes that stem from various places such as wicca. I still believe in supernatural things, but i believe in evolution and the big bang. What am I? I am sorry if this made no sense I guess this was kinda a vent.
1. You're spiritual.
2. You're eclectic.
3. Who cares? Labels are too confining and overrated.
4. You're you.
5. You may be agnostic.
6. Any one of the above.
7. Any combination of any of the above.
8. All of the above.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 12, 2014, 12:45:54 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 11, 2014, 02:51:14 PM
Jesus was Jewish. Most jewish people look pretty white.
Since "Jewish" is a religious descriptor and not an ethnic one, anybody could "look Jewish". The ones who "look pretty white" are of families who had emigrated from European countries rather than from the Middle East. In the (alleged) time of Jesus, Jews were pretty much in the Middle East. (Sorry, I read SBE's response after writing this.)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 11, 2014, 03:31:55 PMDid you by chance take anything that helped you shed the shackles?
Are you taking something now?
Quote from: Predator Queen on Apr 11, 2014, 11:40:03 PM
I do not know if this is the most appropriate place for this but whatever. I honestly do not know what my system of belief is anymore. Like its all over the place. I am not religious, I was raised in a Christan household but it never stuck with me and after the various realizations I denounced it in my early teens. Then I became wiccan but I am not faithful to it much anymore. But I still enjoy it but I will not let it run my life. I do believe in ...something but I also believe in science and logic. But my views and ideals are mostly (at least I think) atheist. I do believe that Christianity and most other big name religious are a problem despite what they say. They hinder some types of progress and it does piss me off. But then again I have my own system of believes that stem from various places such as wicca. I still believe in supernatural things, but i believe in evolution and the big bang. What am I? I am sorry if this made no sense I guess this was kinda a vent.
1. You're spiritual.
2. You're eclectic.
3. Who cares? Labels are too confining and overrated.
4. You're you.
5. You may be agnostic.
6. Any one of the above.
7. Any combination of any of the above.
8. All of the above.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 11, 2014, 11:48:43 PM
Quote from: Predator Queen on Apr 11, 2014, 11:40:03 PM
What am I? I am sorry if this made no sense I guess this was kinda a vent.
I believe you answered you're own question earlier.
Quote from: Predator QueenBut then again I have my own system of believes that stem from various places such as wicca
Everyone forms their own beliefs and morals, some just choose to credit them to something else, and end up having a lot of extra baggage sneak in along with that. Finding a name to credit your beliefs has never been important, what's important is keeping good standards of information to make sure you adopt beliefs for good reasons.
Thank you both so much. I feel a ton better also I think I will use that word from now on. Eclectic.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 11, 2014, 10:59:58 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 11, 2014, 06:27:56 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 11, 2014, 04:58:29 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 11, 2014, 04:41:23 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 11, 2014, 04:38:09 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 11, 2014, 03:26:29 PM
Yeah, pointlessly provoking festering worms is always fun.
In this case.
What a great mentality.
You take me far too seriously. :laugh:
You can laugh and poke fun at anyone.
I don't take anything seriously, unfortunately.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 11, 2014, 06:00:57 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 11, 2014, 03:52:30 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 11, 2014, 02:35:15 PM
http://www.atheistmemebase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/207-Lets-stop-arguing-with-fundies.jpg
I agree with this one.
I hate this....what if it takes another 1,000 years for Christianity to blow over?
What if nobody gives a f**k?
That's great....let humanity get held back even more longer. f**k that bullshit.
Holding who back? Is it holding you back right now?
Does it need to effect you personally for you to take issue with it? Religion does have a pretty nasty track record of holding back society, man. I don't think people should wait until that poison reaches them to take issue with it.
Yall still don't realize your pushing the same shiz.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 12, 2014, 04:12:32 AM
Yall still don't realize your pushing the same shiz.
Explain.
Wanting to offset or replace somebody elses viewpoint because it doesn't fit in with yours. Exactly the same thing you've been accusing religious folks of doing except your replacing belief with lack thereof.
Instead of having a bunch of people believing in something your just going to end up with a bunch of people believing in nothing. I don't know that this is an improvement.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 12, 2014, 04:16:59 AM
Instead of having a bunch of people believing in something your just going to end up with a bunch of people believing in nothing.
I want nothing of the sort. Could you please show me where I claimed to have wanted this, or something in the definition of Rationalism or Atheism that implies any such thing?
Also, you seem to be operating under the falsehood that all views are merely opinions, and that all opinions are equal. Would you be okay with not teaching Geocentrism in astronomy class, or would you consider teaching that the sun is in the middle an attempt to force out and take over Geocentrisms place in society?
Point being neither side can mass produce thought for the other side. You have to let people develop their own train of thought on subjects. You might have a run away train wreck like Afghanistan with those Taliban douchebags and their Al Qaeda affiliates but there are plenty of countries founded with religious values that aren't eating themselves or stopping themselves from progressing as societies.
USA is a whole lot more progressive now than it was sixty years ago. It will be better 60 years in the future.
When people start talking about replacing a whole other group of peoples thought processes just because it doesn't agree with them well that's a pretty hitler like thing to do. And I say that both ways as somebody who knows religion can be dangerous more than most. A more educated populace overall would definitely help.
My main point is that so many non religious people want to swing the thought hammer and change everybody's opinion on religion because it doesn't suit them. That's pretty much the same stance a fundamentalist would take against the non religious. But people don't see themselves as anti religious fundamentalist. They see themselves as just anti religious. I merely want more people to realize this.
If this is NOT the stance you were taking then I apologize. But it seems to constantly resurface around here about every half dozen pages or so.
I guess my question would be, if you had a magic get rid of religion hammer would you swing it if it made everybody al nice atheist non believer or would you not?
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 12, 2014, 05:00:51 AM
I guess my question would be, if you had a magic get rid of religion hammer would you swing it if it made everybody al nice atheist non believer or would you not?
Okay, so would I swing the hammer or not? My answer is going to be a little longer then a simple yes or no, but I think it's important to explain myself here. Apologies in advance, but this is not a question I can give a simple yay or nay on.
This is a hypothetical scenario, clearly, and it's not an option in real life, also clearly. I've made my stance on how to handle Religion clear multiple times, so I obviously don't believe it can be simply removed. But in this fantasy scenario, it can. So what you're actually asking me, I assume, is if I would rewire the way people think.
If that is the case, simply rewiring the human mind worldwide would simply dump a population of non-believers into a believers world. It might made a big difference immediately, but it doesn't remove Religion from the world, merely postpones it. There are still ghettos, third world countries, charlatans, swindlers and the mentally lacking.
All me swinging that hammer did was grant us a brief respite from Religion, nothing more.
Now, if swinging the hammer would not only change the human brain but also improve the state of the world to a point where Religion simply doesn't exist in any meaningful form? I will swing the f**k out of that hammer, as it's only skipping ahead to the end result of improving the world anyway. There's no reason not to swing.
TL;DR version? No, I don't want to mindrape the planet to share my doubt, I just want a happier, healthier and more intelligent world.
My personal beliefs? I'm certainly not atheist (no offence or anything). It just doesn't suit me really. That said I'm not sure where I stand in theism, but that's my own journey for me alone. Over the years I've grown more accepting of the agnostic folks at least, it just makes a lot more sense than atheism to me. True, there no evidence of a God, but when some atheist state that there is no God without evidence of their own, that doesn't exactly make some atheists look any better than their opposition. Agnostics embrace science in it's sincere form, not something that absolutely proves or disproves something, but makes the world knowable for us which is what it's intended for. Plus, to be an atheist in it's most basic meaning is "to be nothing". Might as well call myself an ainvertebrate and promote having a vertebrae to folks like the crayfish.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fwales%2Fnature%2Fimg%2Fspecies%2Ffish%2F446x251%2Fcrayfish.jpg&hash=2d090e8e7e2f28ab83fec3727f69498e1ad037bb)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtbp5cTLLjo# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtbp5cTLLjo#)
And Sabby, atheism doesn't really promote rationalization and skepticism that well, a lot of us humans can do those things awesome already without any isms. If anything, science is far a greater representation of rationalization and skepticism than atheism.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 12, 2014, 05:22:55 AM
And Sabby, atheism doesn't really promote rationalization and skepticism that well, a lot of us humans can do those things awesome already without any isms. If anything, science is far a greater representation of rationalization and skepticism than atheism.
Please show me where I said Atheism in any way promotes Rationalism. Atheism is merely a lack of belief in a Deity. It is not something that can be pushed or presented. You can be an Atheist and also the dumbest, most gullible moron ever.
There's a reason Atheists who are politically or socially minded have to also strive towards being a Skeptic or Rationalist in order to be effective. Hell, that goes for EVERYONE interested in politics, sociology or science. Point is that he label of Atheist is useless in those situations.
Also...
QuotePlus, to be an atheist in it's most basic meaning is "to be nothing".
Lots of people throw this around, and I'd like to know why you think this.
Could of swore I read that somewhere, it's gone now.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 12, 2014, 05:27:37 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 12, 2014, 05:22:55 AM
Plus, to be an atheist in it's most basic meaning is "to be nothing".
Lots of people throw this around, and I'd like to know why you think this.
That's what the a in atheism means, as opposed to theism.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 12, 2014, 05:18:58 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 12, 2014, 05:00:51 AM
I guess my question would be, if you had a magic get rid of religion hammer would you swing it if it made everybody al nice atheist non believer or would you not?
Okay, so would I swing the hammer or not? My answer is going to be a little longer then a simple yes or no, but I think it's important to explain myself here. Apologies in advance, but this is not a question I can give a simple yay or nay on.
This is a hypothetical scenario, clearly, and it's not an option in real life, also clearly. I've made my stance on how to handle Religion clear multiple times, so I obviously don't believe it can be simply removed. But in this fantasy scenario, it can. So what you're actually asking me, I assume, is if I would rewire the way people think.
If that is the case, simply rewiring the human mind worldwide would simply dump a population of non-believers into a believers world. It might made a big difference immediately, but it doesn't remove Religion from the world, merely postpones it. There are still ghettos, third world countries, charlatans, swindlers and the mentally lacking.
All me swinging that hammer did was grant us a brief respite from Religion, nothing more.
Now, if swinging the hammer would not only change the human brain but also improve the state of the world to a point where Religion simply doesn't exist in any meaningful form? I will swing the f**k out of that hammer, as it's only skipping ahead to the end result of improving the world anyway. There's no reason not to swing.
TL;DR version? No, I don't want to mindrape the planet to share my doubt, I just want a happier, healthier and more intelligent world.
I read the whole thing. I deem you not in the non religious mind rape for a better world category.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 12, 2014, 05:36:33 AM
That's what the a in atheism means, as opposed to theism.
Yes, Atheists don't believe in a Deity. This is something that must be restated every few pages, it seems. What of it? I'm not seeing how "Oh, Yahweh? Seems unlikely" leads to a comparable worship of nothingness. Please, explain to me how it does.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 12, 2014, 05:00:51 AM
Point being neither side can mass produce thought for the other side. You have to let people develop their own train of thought on subjects.
Thing I've learned that when it comes to religion and non-religion is that there is no single truth. It's up to the individual and the individual alone to decide what they chose for themselves that makes them happy. Some people go from Christian to atheist, I've heard of people being raised agnostic becoming Christian (Bruce Cockburn). Different horses for different courses.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 12, 2014, 05:42:13 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 12, 2014, 05:36:33 AM
That's what the a in atheism means, as opposed to theism.
Yes, Atheists don't believe in a Deity. This is something that must be restated every few pages, it seems. What of it? I'm not seeing how "Oh, Yahweh? Seems unlikely" leads to a comparable worship of nothingness. Please, explain to me how it does.
It's merely a choice of words - nothing, not that, ain't this, am not that. Take your pick.
Chill.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 12, 2014, 05:46:09 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 12, 2014, 05:00:51 AM
Point being neither side can mass produce thought for the other side. You have to let people develop their own train of thought on subjects.
Thing I've learned that when it comes to religion and non-religion is that there is no single truth. It's up to the individual and the individual alone to decide what they chose for themselves that makes them happy. Some people go from Christian to atheist, I've heard of people being raised agnostic becoming Christian (Bruce Cockburn). Different horses for different courses.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 12, 2014, 05:42:13 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 12, 2014, 05:36:33 AM
That's what the a in atheism means, as opposed to theism.
Yes, Atheists don't believe in a Deity. This is something that must be restated every few pages, it seems. What of it? I'm not seeing how "Oh, Yahweh? Seems unlikely" leads to a comparable worship of nothingness. Please, explain to me how it does.
It's merely a choice of words - nothing, not that, ain't this, am not that. Take your pick.
Chill.
I am chill, I'm merely asking you to explain yourself. You claimed that Atheism was a belief of nothing. Please explain why you think that.
Do you consider those that reject String Theory to also be believers of Nothing?
I just did.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 12, 2014, 05:46:09 AM
It's merely a choice of words - nothing, not that, ain't this, am not that. Take your pick.
I figured that was easy to understand.
funny how the word of god is only spoken by humans.
At the end of it all,believe what makes your life happy.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 12, 2014, 05:49:37 AM
I just did.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 12, 2014, 05:46:09 AM
It's merely a choice of words - nothing, not that, ain't this, am not that. Take your pick.
I figured that was easy to understand.
Yes, we tend to communicate through choices of words, please explain why you chose these words.
Quote from: Crazy RichPlus, to be an atheist in it's most basic meaning is "to be nothing".
Quote from: Vepariga on Apr 12, 2014, 05:50:32 AM
funny how the word of god is only spoken by humans.
I saw that on facebook too. I also saw a baby elephant in a kiddie pool, adorable.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 12, 2014, 05:51:23 AM
Yes, we tend to communicate through choices of words, please explain why you chose those words.
Quote
That's what the a in atheism means, as opposed to theism.
I'm pretty sure I'm being so perfectly clear, anyone else lost?
You're not being unclear, you're just offering a nonsequiter answer that does not address my question.
You made a very clear claim that to be an Atheist is to 'be nothing'. Those were your exact words. I asked you why you thought that, and you pointed to the definition of Atheism. Atheism is a lack of belief in a Deity.
How is that an answer to my question?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F001%2F582%2Fpicard-facepalm.jpg%3F1240934151&hash=aac94636f104edf624fb8927af3855f21d9ef22d)
*sigh*
To be nothing + theism = nothing of theism.
...wut. You're making absolutely no sense right now.
... forget it.
Remember kids, if someone asks you what you mean by something, dodge and weave!
I explained it more than once so that a kindergartener could understand, so never mind that.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzTeYkzk.gif&hash=f8e28b8165c0a11c18d76fb2f017f5e22f3c7344)
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 12, 2014, 06:26:32 AM
Remember kids, if someone asks you what you mean by something, dodge and weave!
He explained repeatedly.
Yes, and as I explained repeatedly, the answer was nonsensical. He can keep asserting that he's being misunderstood, but he's not.
"To be an Atheist is to be nothing"
"Why is that?"
"It's in the word! Look at the A"
"Well that doesn't make any sense at all, could you explain what you mean by that?"
"I ANSWERED YOU ALREADY"
Sorry, ya don't get away with that here. When you answer a question, you might be asked to elaborate on your answer, especially if your answer doesn't really address the question. Your answer doesn't address my question, so I'm asking you to elaborate.
This is not hard to understand dude. Would you like to actually explain to me why you're answer makes any lick of sense, or are you going to keep dodging and weaving with this "I already answered" nonsense until I give up?
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 12, 2014, 06:43:33 AM
This is not hard to understand dude.
Yeahhhhh...
Going back he has a point. Rich says to be atheist means to be nothing. Which is as wrong as it is nonsensical. It means to believe in no deity, not "to be nothing".
God abandon mankind because of humanities innate stupidity for putting asinine words into his mouth.
SiL gets it.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 12, 2014, 06:49:05 AM
Going back he has a point. Rich says to be atheist means to be nothing. Which is as wrong as it is nonsensical. It means to believe in no deity, not "to be nothing".
To be nothing in relation to theism, which I explained afterwards clearly in a simple post. I didn't think I had to spell it out considering what thread we're in.
You... thought that reaction meme nonsense was clarity?
Also, I have to admit, I don't believe you. If you really meant 'in relation to theism', then you would have said so first. You only used that wording after you were being pinned down on your original claim. That, and 'to be nothing in relation to Theism' is a really strange and impractical way of saying 'Atheists disbelief in Deitys'.
Either way, if that's your position now, fine and thank you.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 12, 2014, 06:55:17 AM
To be nothing in relation to theism,
Which still doesn't really make sense. It's just a really, really bad way of putting it.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 12, 2014, 06:59:21 AM
You... thought that reaction meme nonsense was clarity?
Besides the image, I used some pretty easy to understand words. Cal got it.
Quote
Also, I have to admit, I don't believe you.
Well good for you, that's your choice.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 12, 2014, 07:03:07 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 12, 2014, 06:55:17 AM
To be nothing in relation to theism,
Which still doesn't really make sense. It's just a really, really bad way of putting it.
Makes clear sense to me, but noted.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 12, 2014, 06:59:21 AM
You... thought that reaction meme nonsense was clarity?
Also, I have to admit, I don't believe you. If you really meant 'in relation to theism', then you would have said so first. You only used that wording after you were being pinned down on your original claim. That, and 'to be nothing in relation to Theism' is a really strange and impractical way of saying 'Atheists disbelief in Deitys'.
Either way, if that's your position now, fine and thank you.
Let me try to explain what Rich was saying. Usually theists believe in something or identify with something like, "I'm a Christian, Muslim ect," but if you're an atheist and you believe in nothing, you're an atheist or in other words, 'nothing' because you don't identify with anything except for atheism. A run on sentence, but I don't give a f**k. That was my understanding of what Rich was trying to say.
Cal gets a cookie.
I understand him now, but as I said, his choice of words were incredibly poor. Move on.
In other news!
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/28/creationists-block-eight-year-old-girl-s-idea-for-state-fossil-for-south-carolina.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/28/creationists-block-eight-year-old-girl-s-idea-for-state-fossil-for-south-carolina.html)
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 12, 2014, 07:10:30 AM
I understand him now, but as I said, his choice of words were incredibly poor. Move on.
In other news!
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/28/creationists-block-eight-year-old-girl-s-idea-for-state-fossil-for-south-carolina.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/28/creationists-block-eight-year-old-girl-s-idea-for-state-fossil-for-south-carolina.html)
I thought the US was supposed to separate church from state? This seems to be dangerously close to breaking that.
To keep it simple, if religion is hair color, atheism is baldness.
Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Apr 12, 2014, 11:33:22 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 12, 2014, 07:10:30 AM
I understand him now, but as I said, his choice of words were incredibly poor. Move on.
In other news!
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/28/creationists-block-eight-year-old-girl-s-idea-for-state-fossil-for-south-carolina.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/28/creationists-block-eight-year-old-girl-s-idea-for-state-fossil-for-south-carolina.html)
I thought the US was supposed to separate church from state? This seems to be dangerously close to breaking that.
That's why there are "militant atheists". We don't want eradication of religion, we just want it checked so that it doesn't interfere with the secular world. That article is what happens when religion isn't checked.
Yeah, mascots get denied.
I'm really going to miss hearing "Welcome to South Carolina, the Sabre Tooth Tiger State!".
I'm an atheist, happened when I was 12. I realized I was trying to believe in god and decided if you have to try to believe something, then you don't believe it. However, that being said I would be perfectly fine with waking up in hell after death and not just rotting in the ground orssitting on someone's mantle...or thier trophy wall.
Quote from: Hell-Scorpion on Apr 12, 2014, 03:53:50 PM
I'm an atheist, happened when I was 12. I realized I was trying to believe in god and decided if you have to try to believe something, then you don't believe it. However, that being said I would be perfectly fine with waking up in hell after death and not just rotting in the ground orssitting on someone's mantle...or thier trophy wall.
Yeah, I'd be fine with being tortured for eternity and eventually being tossed into the lake of fire where you are destined to burn for the rest of your life. 2edgy4me
Quote from: Hell-Scorpion on Apr 12, 2014, 03:53:50 PM
I'm an atheist, happened when I was 12. I realized I was trying to believe in god and decided if you have to try to believe something, then you don't believe it. However, that being said I would be perfectly fine with waking up in hell after death and not just rotting in the ground orssitting on someone's mantle...or thier trophy wall.
I think we all hope to be proven wrong when that time comes. It just makes more sense to live life in the now and immediate future and live a righteous life without being corrupted by the evilness of organized religion.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-wLXda9xtmCU%2FUVByJdxlKPI%2FAAAAAAAAAFY%2F5M3zq_PCOeM%2Fs1600%2Ffacepalm%2Bsunday.jpg&hash=5a4f9763343e77c0bd577d85b984359d6cd827f9)
Quote from: SiL on Apr 12, 2014, 06:49:05 AM
Going back he has a point. Rich says to be atheist means to be nothing. Which is as wrong as it is nonsensical. It means to believe in no deity, not "to be nothing".
That sounds more like nihilism.
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10155043_823603617666922_5952302748381862784_n.jpg)
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Hey Suey Park, check it out. One of our "beloved white people" ::)
You mean, "Suey 'Nobody Knew Who I Was Until I Decided to Become Famous by Challenging Steven Colbert' Park"?
Yup, that would be her. The one who doesn't want "whiteness on our side".
I was reincarnated as a Spoon.
DIS IS MY PERSONAL BELIEF
who is ur god lonespoon
no
yes
maybe
Are you suggesting that Athiests are godless ignorant castoffs like the Australians?
Atheists are smarter then Australians...
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Apr 14, 2014, 04:22:58 PM
no
yes
maybe
Har, har.
Although I admire you're consolidation under a flag.
Quote from: RobThom on Apr 14, 2014, 05:31:38 PM
Are you suggesting that Athiests are godless ignorant castoffs like the Australians?
Atheists are smarter then Australians...
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Apr 14, 2014, 04:22:58 PM
no
yes
maybe
Har, har.
Although I admire you're consolidation under a flag.
You mean that former British penal colony?
Other then them.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2F4c36c0ef2a39e0c1143e8045e6d211d7%2Ftumblr_n3xrq0lSeB1tyxypso1_400.png&hash=5d863c1c07f97c1a386edf97d9d3f8cb6bb96745)
QuoteAtheists are smarter then Australians...
'smarter then' lol
RobThom's posts are like fun games. What did he mean this time?
Atheists are smarter than Australians.
or
Atheists are smarter, then Australians. (In which case this would still be incorrect since he has failed to mention who Atheists are smarter than).
What would be excellent if RobThom is actually just blown out of his mind right now and is trolling the message boards high as a kite.
You mean he isn't? I assumed he is always high when he posts.
I'm sure he will vaguely almost tell us the next time he spirits himself here.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Fa64d002ccefcdc804464486a4f6f488b%2Ftumblr_miepnasHAB1r0go7xo1_r1_500.jpg&hash=a0d612c57c8a58081e90050c343e921b4639f3a2)
Sad that there's so much hate...
I love Christians warped ideas of what constitutes 'evidence'.
Gman, a Youtuber, says that he has empirical evidence for God. That evidence is answered prayers. Billions of people pray, and some of those prayers are answered, therefore, something is answering them.
Captain Awesomeo, another Youtube, prayed to a can of Campbells soup for a month. He prayed that he would have 60 views on his next Google hangout. On a hangout with Gman, while they were discussing his Answered Prayer evidence, he reached 64 views and brought his soup to the webcam and declared it a God by Gman's own logic.
The conversation has since devolved into whether or not the soup is alive or resurrected. Yeah, soup can be reheated, but who knows if this soup has been reheated. The conversation has split over whether it was Campbells or Heinz.
"Pray to your Heinz and maybe you'll get back into the hangout, since I'm kicking you for being a false prophet"
I just think it's insane how you can look at the religions existing today and see how their stories come from an older story which came from an even older story and so on. You eventually reach a point where you realize it all came from beyond primitive people trying to make sense of a world they were hopeless to comprehend for a time being. The idea that certain people fail to acknowledge this is truly bizarre. It has as much to do with history as it does with science.
Eh, it's not that hard to understand... see, you're processing that whole idea in one lump. Of course it's hard for you to swallow the idea. But people don't just swallow Religion in one go. They take small pieces of it over a long period of time, and all those pieces tend to come with baggage that you're not aware of at the time, and later have to reconcile.
It's easy to go "Oh, how can loving, rational people believe in Hell for fags". Well, we know exactly how they can. It's called indoctrination, and it's a well understood process that can be both gentle and self inflicted.
Remember kids to recite that pledge of allegiance every morning now, uh-huh.
I so desperately want to chime in, but I fear it will provide me with quite the sleepless night. :(
All I will say is the future of our species expands ever wider as the scientific method closes the gap between superstition and all things tangible. It is a wonderful time to be sentient. :)
Science won't always have the answer. Remember that science is a tool for naming what has always existed. For example, science didn't "discover" gravity in the sense that gravity was always there. Science was the tool used to give it a formal name.
It's the best tool we have though and one we shouldn't abuse. That's the important thing to remember.
Quote from: SM on Apr 16, 2014, 01:27:12 AM
Sad that there's so much hate...
Luckily, there isn't any here.
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10169302_624548934298636_5722213877103002506_n.jpg)
Well, it was written by men. He's got that much right.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 16, 2014, 05:34:37 PM
Well, it was written by men. He's got that much right.
Well, it is racist, sexist, homophobic, and violent, and it was written by dudes who most likely comforted themselves with sheep.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 16, 2014, 05:34:37 PM
Well, it was written by men. He's got that much right.
Pretty much everything Ricky said is accurate.
Quote from: Vickers on Apr 16, 2014, 06:04:48 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 16, 2014, 05:34:37 PM
Well, it was written by men. He's got that much right.
Pretty much everything Ricky said is accurate.
"Pretty much"? Nah, he was 100%.
;)
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 16, 2014, 07:25:33 PM
Quote from: Vickers on Apr 16, 2014, 06:04:48 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 16, 2014, 05:34:37 PM
Well, it was written by men. He's got that much right.
Pretty much everything Ricky said is accurate.
"Pretty much"? Nah, he was 100%.
;)
I would be inclined to agree.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 16, 2014, 09:40:17 PMI would be inclined to agree.
All one has to do is actually read the Bible--all of it--and not resort to pious fraud to see how it's the worst self-help book ever published.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 16, 2014, 09:53:21 PM
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 16, 2014, 09:40:17 PMI would be inclined to agree.
All one has to do is actually read the Bible--all of it--and not resort to pious fraud to see how it's the worst self-help book ever published.
Agreed once again. I've read all of the Pentateuch as well as New Testament, and the qur'an. I hold a masters degree in theology precisely intended to refute textual claims when required. Though a forum about aliens and predators is hardly my ideal locale to debate the existence of the supernatural.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 16, 2014, 05:43:32 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 16, 2014, 05:34:37 PM
Well, it was written by men. He's got that much right.
Well, it is racist, sexist, homophobic, and violent, and it was written by dudes who most likely comforted themselves with sheep.
They engaged in beastialty with sheep?
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 17, 2014, 01:52:49 AM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 16, 2014, 05:43:32 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 16, 2014, 05:34:37 PM
Well, it was written by men. He's got that much right.
Well, it is racist, sexist, homophobic, and violent, and it was written by dudes who most likely comforted themselves with sheep.
They engaged in beastialty with sheep?
Ya think?!
Oh come on Kirkland there's people f**king sheep and dogs and animals left and right nowadays as well.
Remember when some member on this forum (forget who) posted that video of how people f**king donkeys in South America is a cultural thing?
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 17, 2014, 02:25:20 AM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 17, 2014, 01:52:49 AM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 16, 2014, 05:43:32 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 16, 2014, 05:34:37 PM
Well, it was written by men. He's got that much right.
Well, it is racist, sexist, homophobic, and violent, and it was written by dudes who most likely comforted themselves with sheep.
They engaged in beastialty with sheep?
Ya think?!
o0oo00 my gawd that's gross. People were messed up back then.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 17, 2014, 02:14:43 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 17, 2014, 02:25:20 AM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 17, 2014, 01:52:49 AM
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 16, 2014, 05:43:32 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 16, 2014, 05:34:37 PM
Well, it was written by men. He's got that much right.
Well, it is racist, sexist, homophobic, and violent, and it was written by dudes who most likely comforted themselves with sheep.
They engaged in beastialty with sheep?
Ya think?!
o0oo00 my gawd that's gross. People were messed up back then.
Thou doth protest too much
back then? haven't you niggas ever heard of pornsocket.com?
Unfortunately we live in in a society that considers bestiality on the same level as homosexuals. Damn you Phil Robertson and other prominent bible thumpers.
*angrily shakes fist*
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 17, 2014, 04:54:44 PM
Unfortunately we live in in a society that considers bestiality on the same level as homosexuals. Damn you Phil Robertson and other prominent bible thumpers.
We do?
Bestiality is ok in many states as long as it is not same sex bestiality. :P
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 16, 2014, 09:53:21 PM
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 16, 2014, 09:40:17 PMI would be inclined to agree.
All one has to do is actually read the Bible--all of it--and not resort to pious fraud to see how it's the worst self-help book ever published.
Their is no need for "pious fraud" to see what is good about the Bible. The message Jesus gave us about Salvation is the most important thing written in the Bible.
As I have posted before, I am a Catholic not because I was born into but after surviving a very very bad haunting. If a family member had not used what was ordered by the Church concerning dark spirits and or demons, which originates from Jesus in the New Testament, I could be dead since it got so bad it started physically attacking me and doing things to my belongs like putting them in places it could not possible have gone.
Just a rehash, skipping all the stuff I had posted before in this topic, I kept my glasses by my bed. I woke up and couldn't find them all day. Later I came back home and looked all over. I looked under the bead and right in the center was my glasses. To get to that spot "Naturally" it had to fall diagonally and then move forward but without ever touching the ground because I had a big plastic box full of gear in the way of the opening of the bed. The bed itself stuck out further than the box so that is another reason it had to travel in a straight line for at least three feet, that includes that traveling distance the glasses where found behind the box and at the center area under my bed. The box is so big that if the glass had fallen off any other way they could not just bounce around the box and then end up behind it.
And then their were times I actually saw it. It was the blackest thing I had ever seen. This experience is something that I will never forget. Nor will I forget about the time Jesus healed my arm, which I also wrote about in this topic.
I don't believe in any good, in anything magic or anything "super natural" "unnatural" etc. All that exists has a natural, scientific explanation.
I don't believe there are any gods, spirits, demons, monsters or anything like this. But if they exist, there is a scientific and logical explanation to them.
If there is a god, anyway, I won't nothing to do with his club...he can go and do his thing I'll do mine...
Darth Rinzler, I have no Idea about what caused your experience, I actually have no idea if it really happened, but if it did. Im 99.9999999999% sure it has nothing to do with Demons, Jesus or any other supernatural power.
I mean, I wouldn't be able to live if I believe that there are Demons and shit around! How can you guys do it?
Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Apr 17, 2014, 07:57:38 PM
I don't believe in any good, in anything magic or anything "super natural" "unnatural" etc. All that exists has a natural, scientific explanation.
I don't believe there are any gods, spirits, demons, monsters or anything like this. But if they exist, there is a scientific and logical explanation to them.
If there is a god, anyway, I won't nothing to do with his club...he can go and do his thing I'll do mine...
Darth Rinzler, I have no Idea about what caused your experience, I actually have no idea if it really happened, but if it did. Im 99.9999999999% sure it has nothing to do with Demons, Jesus or any other supernatural power.
I mean, I wouldn't be able to live if I believe that there are Demons and shit around! How can you guys do it?
A kindred spirit, pun intended, of course. :)
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 17, 2014, 07:29:08 PM
As I have posted before, I am a Catholic not because I was born into but after surviving a very very bad haunting. If a family member had not used what was ordered by the Church concerning dark spirits and or demons, which originates from Jesus in the New Testament, I could be dead since it got so bad it started physically attacking me and doing things to my belongs like putting them in places it could not possible have gone.
That's how you
really know something is a nightmarish hellspawn of endless evil.
God comes to your aid if there's an evil spirit moving things around but when a little kid has cancer... ain't nobody got time for that!
Hello Darth, good to see you again. I haven't forgotten about our last little chat (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=49049.msg1788886#msg1788886). I hope you've learned some things since then.
Quote from: Vickers on Apr 17, 2014, 08:57:26 PM
God comes to your aid if there's an evil spirit moving things around but when a little kid has cancer... ain't nobody got time for that!
You should read up on his last visit. Ask him why God allows rape to happen but personally healed him when he slept on his arm wrong.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 18, 2014, 01:17:25 AM
Ask him why God allows rape to happen but personally healed him when he slept on his arm wrong.
Because free will.
Perhaps Darth would like to take another crack at the equation I showed him last time. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=49049.msg1788886#msg1788886)
What equation?
It's linked in the text. He claimed that demons started false religions to lead people away from God, so I worked out the rough chances of being mislead within Christianity alone. Darth's chances of actually being within the correct religion (by his own logic) is incredibly low.
This Darth fellow sounds inescapably cartoonish. Are you certain his contentions are not disingenuous? I have catholic family members, yet none adhere to such a, literally-dumb, set of supernatural views.
Okay, a few do.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 18, 2014, 05:09:58 AM
This Darth fellow sounds inescapably cartoonish. Are you certain his contentions are not disingenuous? I have catholic family members, yet none adhere to such a, literally-dumb, set of supernatural views.
Okay, a few do.
If he is facetious as you claim, he has been wasting a lot of time writing diligently in this thread.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50135.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50135.0)
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 18, 2014, 05:20:06 AM
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 18, 2014, 05:09:58 AM
This Darth fellow sounds inescapably cartoonish. Are you certain his contentions are not disingenuous? I have catholic family members, yet none adhere to such a, literally-dumb, set of supernatural views.
Okay, a few do.
If he is facetious as you claim, he has been wasting a lot of time writing diligently in this thread.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50135.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50135.0)
I make no such claim. I just respect human intelligence too much to willingly accept someone could be that irrational.
I'll side with you, as further reading suggests he really is that deluded.
Pity, really. Theological indecency knows no bounds. Why would someone prostletyze on a forum such as this?
Very perturbing.
Quote from: BANE on Apr 18, 2014, 01:26:26 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 18, 2014, 01:17:25 AM
Ask him why God allows rape to happen but personally healed him when he slept on his arm wrong.
Because free will.
Lame excuse. His arm probably just got better naturally.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 17, 2014, 07:29:08 PMTheir is no need for "pious fraud" to see what is good about the Bible.
I didn't say that there was. I said that pious fraud is needed to ignore what is bad about the Bible.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 17, 2014, 07:29:08 PMThe message Jesus gave us about Salvation is the most important thing written in the Bible.
Like everything else in the Bible, what is most important is left to the reader.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 17, 2014, 07:29:08 PMAs I have posted before, I am a Catholic not because I was born into but after surviving a very very bad haunting. If a family member had not used what was ordered by the Church concerning dark spirits and or demons, which originates from Jesus in the New Testament, I could be dead since it got so bad it started physically attacking me and doing things to my belongs like putting them in places it could not possible have gone.
The New Testament physically attacked you? Another reason to avoid religion!
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 18, 2014, 05:09:58 AM
This Darth fellow sounds inescapably cartoonish. Are you certain his contentions are not disingenuous? I have catholic family members, yet none adhere to such a, literally-dumb, set of supernatural views.
Okay, a few do.
Aren't all supernatural views dumb? If it's supernatural, it means that its origins cannot be observed by the senses. If you cannot observe something directly or even indirectly, wouldn't it make more sense to say that we don't know what it is than to say that it has to be "this"?
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 18, 2014, 11:48:24 AM
Quote from: BANE on Apr 18, 2014, 01:26:26 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 18, 2014, 01:17:25 AM
Ask him why God allows rape to happen but personally healed him when he slept on his arm wrong.
Because free will.
Lame excuse. His arm probably just got better naturally.
No shit, I wasn't referring to his arm healing though.
I too have been touched by the devilish one. Tattoo on the left shoulder... Oh, but when I saw the face of God, I was changed. I took the entire arm off.
Here (http://ffrf.org/news/blog/item/20393-leave-no-stone-unturned-an-easter-challenge-for-christians)'s a little challenge for DR...if he dares.
Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Apr 17, 2014, 07:57:38 PM
I don't believe in any good, in anything magic or anything "super natural" "unnatural" etc. All that exists has a natural, scientific explanation.
I don't believe there are any gods, spirits, demons, monsters or anything like this. But if they exist, there is a scientific and logical explanation to them.
If there is a god, anyway, I won't nothing to do with his club...he can go and do his thing I'll do mine...
Darth Rinzler, I have no Idea about what caused your experience, I actually have no idea if it really happened, but if it did. Im 99.9999999999% sure it has nothing to do with Demons, Jesus or any other supernatural power.
I mean, I wouldn't be able to live if I believe that there are Demons and shit around! How can you guys do it?
Their is no phenomenon that would cause what happened other than a Dark entity. What I wrote above was very brief. You can what happened in fuller detail in my earlier posts in this topic.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:56:33 PM
Their is no phenomenon that would cause what happened other than a Dark entity.
Delusion. Ghosts, perhaps, but probably;y delusion.
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 17, 2014, 08:53:07 PM
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 17, 2014, 07:29:08 PM
As I have posted before, I am a Catholic not because I was born into but after surviving a very very bad haunting. If a family member had not used what was ordered by the Church concerning dark spirits and or demons, which originates from Jesus in the New Testament, I could be dead since it got so bad it started physically attacking me and doing things to my belongs like putting them in places it could not possible have gone.
That's how you really know something is a nightmarish hellspawn of endless evil.
The other things leading up to that event you highlighted where frightening though. The glasses being moved was important to point out because that was the time I finale started to believe what I was seeing was real and that I couldn't brush off the other events because of disbelief.
Quote from: Vickers on Apr 17, 2014, 08:57:26 PM
God comes to your aid if there's an evil spirit moving things around but when a little kid has cancer... ain't nobody got time for that!
God has helped other people that have asked for his aid. But the big thing is he has tasked us with is taking care of ourselves. Problem is a lot of people wont help people because of their cutthroat personalities, the middle class is shit on by big business because of this mentality. If the rich where to give up a lot of their money a lot of good things could be done with it. The only rich person I normally see helping the sick and needy is Bill Gates.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 18, 2014, 02:01:37 AM
It's linked in the text. He claimed that demons started false religions to lead people away from God, so I worked out the rough chances of being mislead within Christianity alone. Darth's chances of actually being within the correct religion (by his own logic) is incredibly low.
God doesn't work through people that commit blaspheme. The reason I say this is that their are and have been Catholics that with Gods grace of preformed miracles. That being said just because you are in a Faith doesn't instantly make you saved. I am sure a lot of other people will be that are not Catholic, just like I am sure there Catholics that wont be saved.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 18, 2014, 05:23:01 AM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 18, 2014, 05:20:06 AM
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 18, 2014, 05:09:58 AM
This Darth fellow sounds inescapably cartoonish. Are you certain his contentions are not disingenuous? I have catholic family members, yet none adhere to such a, literally-dumb, set of supernatural views.
Okay, a few do.
If he is facetious as you claim, he has been wasting a lot of time writing diligently in this thread.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50135.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50135.0)
I make no such claim. I just respect human intelligence too much to willingly accept someone could be that irrational.
I'll side with you, as further reading suggests he really is that deluded.
Pity, really. Theological indecency knows no bounds. Why would someone prostletyze on a forum such as this?
Very perturbing.
I am not delusional, for the most part this is just how things are epically when concerning Entities that have no purpose but evil and or have granted abilities to humans. Some of these false gods may also just be human accounts of God and his legion of Angels on earth.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 18, 2014, 11:48:24 AM
Quote from: BANE on Apr 18, 2014, 01:26:26 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 18, 2014, 01:17:25 AM
Ask him why God allows rape to happen but personally healed him when he slept on his arm wrong.
Because free will.
Lame excuse. His arm probably just got better naturally.
It didn't, I have had injured arms before and I have not felt the experience I had when the Priest did a Prayer with my arm. It was indescribable.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 18, 2014, 12:40:08 PM
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 17, 2014, 07:29:08 PMTheir is no need for "pious fraud" to see what is good about the Bible.
I didn't say that there was. I said that pious fraud is needed to ignore what is bad about the Bible.
Write down everything that is bad in the Bible.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 18, 2014, 12:40:08 PMLike everything else in the Bible, what is most important is left to the reader.
No the most important written in the Bible is about salvation, everything else is unessential.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 18, 2014, 12:40:08 PMThe New Testament physically attacked you? Another reason to avoid religion!
I don't have a name for it.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 18, 2014, 05:09:58 AM
Okay, a few do.
Aren't all supernatural views dumb? If it's supernatural, it means that its origins cannot be observed by the senses. If you cannot observe something directly or even indirectly, wouldn't it make more sense to say that we don't know what it is than to say that it has to be "this"?
[/quote]
There has been a lot of study on the supernatural especially by the Catholic Church but recently lots of paranormal researchers have found lots of great evidence showing spirits, and I am not talking about blurry still or video.
Back to my unfortunate incident I actually saw the thing with my own eyes, is actually physically manipulated objects in my house, even destroyed objects in my house. It physically attacked me doing damage to my body. No sort of phenomena would cause anything I have written in this topic to happen but spirits.
Again I will point to what happened to my glasses nothing natural could have caused what happened with them to happen.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 18, 2014, 06:58:49 PM
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:56:33 PM
Their is no phenomenon that would cause what happened other than a Dark entity.
Delusion. Ghosts, perhaps, but probably;y delusion.
Delusions do not cause physical damage, nor manipulate physical objects, nor do other people and animals experience your own personal delusions.
Quote from: BANE on Apr 18, 2014, 02:28:27 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 18, 2014, 11:48:24 AM
Quote from: BANE on Apr 18, 2014, 01:26:26 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 18, 2014, 01:17:25 AM
Ask him why God allows rape to happen but personally healed him when he slept on his arm wrong.
Because free will.
Lame excuse. His arm probably just got better naturally.
No shit, I wasn't referring to his arm healing though.
Free will is not lame. Without free will we characterless blobs or robots with no merits to their name. God wants to see who we are and what our conduct is for every situation we are in. If everything is done for use right now their would barely be anything to judge about individually, I am saying that in the context of identity not the finale judgment which would also play off of that.
No this though God wants us to do good and God wants us to help all people of every creed in every good way required and he wants us to do this by our own choice.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:59:26 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 18, 2014, 02:01:37 AM
It's linked in the text. He claimed that demons started false religions to lead people away from God, so I worked out the rough chances of being mislead within Christianity alone. Darth's chances of actually being within the correct religion (by his own logic) is incredibly low.
God doesn't work through people that commit blaspheme. The reason I say this is that their are and have been Catholics that with Gods grace of preformed miracles. That being said just because you are in a Faith doesn't instantly make you saved. I am sure a lot of other people will be that are not Catholic, just like I am sure there Catholics that wont be saved.
How was that a response? Lets try again.
Quote from: SabbyThere is an estimated 43,000 Christian denominations as of 2012. If Demons are tricky enough to create that many false sects, then I'd say it's reasonable that you yourself could be deceived Rinzler. The only way for you to not be so, according to your own logic, is if you were somehow more perceptive then the other 2 BILLION Christians in the world, or through luck.
Your chances of being deceived within Christianity alone is 42,999 to 1. Feeling lucky?
I thought most Christian denominations largely accepted each other across the board and agreed to disagree on small matters? Your argument would make more sense if you just used other religions as an example would have worked better. At least, in my opinion.
I would agree Cal, but in this context, I'm using Rinzlers claim that false religions are started by demons. By that logic, he himself could be deceived by a demon. I just tried to work out the rough chances of that within Christianity alone. I'd like to go beyond that and include other religions, but that's a huge task, and the numbers I've come up with already are more then enough to demonstrate my point.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 18, 2014, 09:30:46 PM
I thought most Christian denominations largely accepted each other across the board and agreed to disagree on small matters? Your argument would make more sense if you just used other religions as an example would have worked better. At least, in my opinion.
Do you live in Ireland lol?
Largely accepted my ass.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 18, 2014, 09:34:00 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 18, 2014, 09:30:46 PM
I thought most Christian denominations largely accepted each other across the board and agreed to disagree on small matters? Your argument would make more sense if you just used other religions as an example would have worked better. At least, in my opinion.
Do you live in Ireland lol?
Largely accepted my ass.
I'm afraid I'm not up to date with Christian politics.
You don't need to be up to date, just a little something called "the troubles" that happened thirty odd years ago.
And Rinzler, how about incest, rape, being turned to salt, being stoned to death for wearing two different kinds of cloth, having to pay and marry your rapist if you're a woman.
I could go on.
Evil mounted ontop of lies, sweetened by small truths to seem believable, all any religion is.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:59:26 PMWrite down everything that is bad in the Bible.
Ain't nobody got time for that.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:59:26 PMNo the most important written in the Bible is about salvation, everything else is unessential.
Then maybe God shouldn't have sanctioned all of that shit he deemed holy when it was written.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:59:26 PMQuote from: maledoro on Apr 18, 2014, 12:40:08 PMThe New Testament physically attacked you? Another reason to avoid religion!
I don't have a name for it.
I thought "New Testament" was its name?
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:59:26 PMQuote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 18, 2014, 05:09:58 AMOkay, a few do.
Aren't all supernatural views dumb? If it's supernatural, it means that its origins cannot be observed by the senses. If you cannot observe something directly or even indirectly, wouldn't it make more sense to say that we don't know what it is than to say that it has to be "this"?
There has been a lot of study on the supernatural especially by the Catholic Church but recently lots of paranormal researchers have found lots of great evidence showing spirits, and I am not talking about blurry still or video.[/quote]But not good enough to earn respect from the scientific community.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:59:26 PM
Quote from: Vickers on Apr 17, 2014, 08:57:26 PM
God comes to your aid if there's an evil spirit moving things around but when a little kid has cancer... ain't nobody got time for that!
God has helped other people that have asked for his aid. But the big thing is he has tasked us with is taking care of ourselves. Problem is a lot of people wont help people because of their cutthroat personalities, the middle class is shit on by big business because of this mentality. If the rich where to give up a lot of their money a lot of good things could be done with it. The only rich person I normally see helping the sick and needy is Bill Gates.
Because some people have had positive outcomes, God must be real!!!1! Let's forget about the all the other people who really needed help.
And LOL!!! You're throwing ONE wealthy person's name out there and the amount that he gives away is hardly a dent in his wealth. There are plenty of wealthy people (who aren't celebrities) helping people who are in need.
That's besides the point... we're talking about God here. Not some mere mortals without the power to heal and answer prayers. :P
Super fun thought experiment!: Why did God create HIV? And why does he allow completely innocent children to be born HIV positive everyday?
And why should anyone worship him if he does exist?
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 19, 2014, 04:23:16 PMSuper fun thought experiment!: Why did God create HIV? And why does he allow completely innocent children to be born HIV positive everyday?
The gays created HIV, Cvalda. You're American. How could you not know this? ???
No, God created HIV to punish the gays (nevermind the majority of cases worldwide are hetero). Swedish n00b ::)
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 19, 2014, 04:26:02 PM
No, God created HIV to punish the gays (nevermind the majority of cases worldwide are hetero). Swedish n00b ::)
Well excuse me for not being thought this in school. ::)
Haha it's only a real problem because some numbnuts decided to have sex with an animal.
http://www.theaidsinstitute.org/node/259 (http://www.theaidsinstitute.org/node/259)
Cool.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/04/02/atheists-classified-terrorists-new-saudi-arabian-laws_n_5075129.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/04/02/atheists-classified-terrorists-new-saudi-arabian-laws_n_5075129.html)
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/14/afghan-atheist-granted-uk-asylum-religion-death-sentence_n_4594203.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/14/afghan-atheist-granted-uk-asylum-religion-death-sentence_n_4594203.html)
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 18, 2014, 09:25:24 PM
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:59:26 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 18, 2014, 02:01:37 AM
It's linked in the text. He claimed that demons started false religions to lead people away from God, so I worked out the rough chances of being mislead within Christianity alone. Darth's chances of actually being within the correct religion (by his own logic) is incredibly low.
God doesn't work through people that commit blaspheme. The reason I say this is that their are and have been Catholics that with Gods grace of preformed miracles. That being said just because you are in a Faith doesn't instantly make you saved. I am sure a lot of other people will be that are not Catholic, just like I am sure there Catholics that wont be saved.
How was that a response? Lets try again.
Quote from: SabbyThere is an estimated 43,000 Christian denominations as of 2012. If Demons are tricky enough to create that many false sects, then I'd say it's reasonable that you yourself could be deceived Rinzler. The only way for you to not be so, according to your own logic, is if you were somehow more perceptive then the other 2 BILLION Christians in the world, or through luck.
Your chances of being deceived within Christianity alone is 42,999 to 1. Feeling lucky?
Its pretty simple really, Jesus commanded he is the only way to salvation. Most other religions do not even have the same sort of way that we obtain it from Jesus Christ, most teach salvation is obtained through one selves actions. Like for example in Egyptian mythology it comes down to remembering the magic words that will allow your soul to pass on to the other side without being devoured by a demon. Not that any of that matter God destroyed all the Egyptian false Gods written in Exodus.
In Russian mythology (Slavic) all I need is a collection of nails and undergo many trials that will test ones bravery, shrewdness, honesty, benevolence, cognition, and drudgery. From what God has commanded me to do with my life I wouldn't have a problem with these tests.
Now as far as Jesus goes if that many Christians where deceived and his true word was completely muted he would have pity on us since it is not are fault that we can practice his true commands.
Then their that matter concerning other entities that have been labeled as other mythologies entities, especially dark entities, they can be expelled using the authority of Jesus.
If by this point every religion was wrong than their would be no reason to be deceptive anymore nor hold back their aggression, they could just attack us without fear of rebuke.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 18, 2014, 09:33:12 PM
I would agree Cal, but in this context, I'm using Rinzlers claim that false religions are started by demons. By that logic, he himself could be deceived by a demon. I just tried to work out the rough chances of that within Christianity alone. I'd like to go beyond that and include other religions, but that's a huge task, and the numbers I've come up with already are more then enough to demonstrate my point.
If you made this list you would have to understand those other religions you are talking about including their function involving the aforementioned salvation. You also would have to take into consideration that religions religious leaders current understanding of their text. Like for example if you were to included Native American mythologies you have to take into consideration that their are current groups that Believe that the Holy Trinity is one in the same as the Sky Father. You also will have to take into consideration that their is a growing group of Eastern Indians that have excepted that everything recorded in their mythology was really Alien visitations and inter-settler war between them, so in that case they don't have salvation.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 18, 2014, 09:46:04 PM
You don't need to be up to date, just a little something called "the troubles" that happened thirty odd years ago.
And Rinzler, how about incest, rape, being turned to salt, being stoned to death for wearing two different kinds of cloth, having to pay and marry your rapist if you're a woman.
I could go on.
Evil mounted ontop of lies, sweetened by small truths to seem believable, all any religion is.
All of the things you are having a problem with are things God is against and the persons doing these things doesn't repent they are punished. Any enemy Israelites were commanded to destroy outright had done some real bad things to them, like prevent their escape from the Egyptians, or they had to be destroyed because they were demon human hybrids, which is the main reason we had the flood to destroy the hybrids. The part about being turned into salt was a result of their contempt for decency. Now as for his Wife that was unfortunate but she was warned to run. Lastly those laws where made for the Jews in the way that they were because they were unruly. Moses himself was not the greats prophet God has had since he caved into the Israelite wishes. Ps when I saw laws I am not talking about the 10 commandments.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:59:26 PMNo the most important written in the Bible is about salvation, everything else is unessential.
Then maybe God shouldn't have sanctioned all of that shit he deemed holy when it was written.[/quote]
Its important just not as important as what is required for Salvation.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:59:26 PMQuote from: maledoro on Apr 18, 2014, 12:40:08 PMThe New Testament physically attacked you? Another reason to avoid religion!
I don't have a name for it.
I thought "New Testament" was its name?[/quote]
You know I am talking about the thing that attacked me.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:59:26 PMQuote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 18, 2014, 05:09:58 AMOkay, a few do.
Aren't all supernatural views dumb? If it's supernatural, it means that its origins cannot be observed by the senses. If you cannot observe something directly or even indirectly, wouldn't it make more sense to say that we don't know what it is than to say that it has to be "this"?
There has been a lot of study on the supernatural especially by the Catholic Church but recently lots of paranormal researchers have found lots of great evidence showing spirits, and I am not talking about blurry still or video.[/quote]But not good enough to earn respect from the scientific community.
[/quote]
That's not true, stuff from Zack bagans has been examined by the scientific community, a physics professor, I forget his name but he was in the documentary (Ghost Adventures: The Original Documentary). He said that what was seen in the Hotel could not have been faked with practical special effects.
There other as well although Bagans is getting really really good stuff with the price that he is probably going to die a very horrible death. I have listed those other groups much earlier in this topic.
Quote from: Vickers on Apr 19, 2014, 04:16:31 PM
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 18, 2014, 06:59:26 PM
Quote from: Vickers on Apr 17, 2014, 08:57:26 PM
God comes to your aid if there's an evil spirit moving things around but when a little kid has cancer... ain't nobody got time for that!
God has helped other people that have asked for his aid. But the big thing is he has tasked us with is taking care of ourselves. Problem is a lot of people wont help people because of their cutthroat personalities, the middle class is shit on by big business because of this mentality. If the rich where to give up a lot of their money a lot of good things could be done with it. The only rich person I normally see helping the sick and needy is Bill Gates.
Because some people have had positive outcomes, God must be real!!!1! Let's forget about the all the other people who really needed help.
And LOL!!! You're throwing ONE wealthy person's name out there and the amount that he gives away is hardly a dent in his wealth. There are plenty of wealthy people (who aren't celebrities) helping people who are in need.
That's besides the point... we're talking about God here. Not some mere mortals without the power to heal and answer prayers. :P
That's what miracles are God healing people that are in such bad straights that they wouldn't have survived without him. Their many cases of this happening.
You halfway getting the point that I made. Gates is barely making a dent and nether are those other people you mention. See the problem is their is a lot more people that have lots and lots of money or talents for that matter, that could be helping but their mind set is f*&% it me me me.
As for you last post I know very well we are talking about God. He does heal people BUT he has also commanded we help people are selves, most of us are not taking up that mission however.
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 19, 2014, 04:23:16 PM
Super fun thought experiment!: Why did God create HIV? And why does he allow completely innocent children to be born HIV positive everyday?
And why should anyone worship him if he does exist?
Men in Africa would have sex with primates, HIV is thought to have only been a disease they carried until it adapted to our biology.
In short this would never have been problem if they had not had sex with animals and then sex out of wedlock with multiple partners. If did this or became nonsextuals this disease would not be anywhere as near a problem as it is now.
I have two counter question why is the medical community more interested in making diseases treatable and not curable? Money...
What do you think will happen with these doctors that put pricetags on people lives and are working only only treating diseases and and cureing them?
So far, just like last time, you've demonstrated yourself to be completely incapable of giving direct answers to direct questions. I asked you to look at the numbers I came up with. If you take issue with the methodology, by all means, tell me, but what you gave me was several paragraphs of nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzt6qz1YzrI#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzt6qz1YzrI#ws)
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 19, 2014, 05:58:23 PM
Men in Africa would have sex with primates, HIV is thought to have only been a disease they carried until it adapted to our biology.
In short this would never have been problem if they had not had sex with animals and then sex out of wedlock with multiple partners. If did this or became nonsextuals this disease would not be anywhere as near a problem as it is now.
So you're not just spectacularly ignorant, you're racist as well. Cute. Damn those Africans!
HIV jumped to humans from
eating chimpanzees, dumbass, not f**king them.
Kinda weird that it's considered an STD even though it was originally transferred through non sexual means.
There just isn't enough deodorant to cover up any of DR's posts. I'm not going to even try to dignify any of his posts with a respectful reply after that steamer he laid.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 20, 2014, 01:17:04 AM
Kinda weird that it's considered an STD even though it was originally transferred through non sexual means.
Just wait until it mutates and can be carried by mosquitos. :o
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 20, 2014, 01:14:36 AM
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 19, 2014, 05:58:23 PM
Men in Africa would have sex with primates, HIV is thought to have only been a disease they carried until it adapted to our biology.
In short this would never have been problem if they had not had sex with animals and then sex out of wedlock with multiple partners. If did this or became nonsextuals this disease would not be anywhere as near a problem as it is now.
So you're not just spectacularly ignorant, you're racist as well. Cute. Damn those Africans!
HIV jumped to humans from eating chimpanzees, dumbass, not f**king them.
Haha, calm down, I still blame the UK for Mad Cow disease.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 20, 2014, 01:17:04 AM
Kinda weird that it's considered an STD even though it was originally transferred through non sexual means.
Yeah. It's as if whomever classified it as a "sexually transmitted disease" were implying that one of the most common ways it spreads from human to human was through f**king. Imagine that. I guess none of us would have seen that coming, as it were.
::)
Cal vs Mal......round one..FIGHT!
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 20, 2014, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 20, 2014, 01:17:04 AM
Kinda weird that it's considered an STD even though it was originally transferred through non sexual means.
Yeah. It's as if whomever classified it as a "sexually transmitted disease" were implying that one of the most common ways it spreads from human to human was through f**king. Imagine that. I guess none of us would have seen that coming, as it were.
::)
Massive overreaction.
G'nite, guys. I have three hours of TV to get caught up on.
No. Let destiny take its course. You have not participated in an e-battle until you have met Mal in the field of combat.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 20, 2014, 01:31:34 AM
G'nite, guys. I have three hours of TV to get caught up on.
Haha Gospel shows right?
He has to be well versed against the believers.
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 20, 2014, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 20, 2014, 01:17:04 AM
Kinda weird that it's considered an STD even though it was originally transferred through non sexual means.
Yeah. It's as if whomever classified it as a "sexually transmitted disease" were implying that one of the most common ways it spreads from human to human was through f**king. Imagine that. I guess none of us would have seen that coming, as it were.
::)
:laugh:
Goodnes, it seems I wrote to Darth in the wrong thread. I should have come here as opposed to his lent tirade.
QuoteGay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSMa), particularly young black/African American MSM, are most seriously affected by HIV.
By race, blacks/African Americans face the most severe burden of HIV.
aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/hiv-aids-101/statistics/
;D
If only teaching proper safe sex in Africa weren't being obstructed...
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 20, 2014, 01:56:37 AM
If only teaching proper safe sex in Africa weren't being obstructed...
I know. Nobody in Africa is safe while having sex because every five seconds one person is beheaded.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 20, 2014, 01:54:32 AM
QuoteGay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSMa), particularly young black/African American MSM, are most seriously affected by HIV.
By race, blacks/African Americans face the most severe burden of HIV.
aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/hiv-aids-101/statistics/
;D
Haha you found your next signature.
People have been trying but a lot of shit over there is standing in the way of education.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 20, 2014, 01:58:43 AM
People have been trying but a lot of shit over there is standing in the way of education.
That's one of the issues with poor sanitation/plumbing. :-\
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 20, 2014, 01:20:26 AM
There just isn't enough deodorant to cover up any of DR's posts. I'm not going to even try to dignify any of his posts with a respectful reply after that steamer he laid.
So true.
I will say that in the two countries I visited (Djibouti,Ethiopia) the most educated and respectable people outside of the higher tier of government worker were those with religious ties. People involved in Muslim and Orthodox Christian were much better behaved than just about everybody else.
If religion is control then this might be a version where it is used successfully.
Because just about everybody else were lazy khat chewing f**ks.
Those godless Ethiopian women were fine though. It hurt my soul to look at some of them. The god-fearing ones were all dressed up so I couldn't eyeball f**k them.
Religion is useful in that it brings order and control over primitive people.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 20, 2014, 02:16:47 AM
Religion is useful in that it brings order and control over primitive people.
Haha you're a huge dick.
It's true, look at medieval times, it was a great help and it is as such to countries not as fortunate today until humans advance to a certain point where-in it is no longer needed.
I agree to an extent, but look at America. That country is certainly at a point where it no longer benefits from Religion, yet it's dug in and refuses to be phased out. I'm not denying the benefit that came from unifying the people in less advanced times, but there must be a better way to do that that doesn't end in this cultural stalemate we face now.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 20, 2014, 02:16:47 AM
Religion is useful in that it brings order and control over primitive people.
Are you serious? Primitive? You not just go ahead and say they're inferior while you're at it. Atheism doesn't make people better than others who aren't atheist. The world isn't black and white.
Wow.
Well Sabby you can do one of two things, wait until it slowly rots away or force it out.
I don't think he means everyone that is Religious is primitive, just that it is useful for control in less advanced populations. Surely you can agree with that much? Look crime stricken areas with lower educational standards, or, as he said, time periods like the Middle Ages.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 02:30:39 AM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 20, 2014, 02:16:47 AM
Religion is useful in that it brings order and control over primitive people.
Are you serious? Primitive? You not just go ahead and say they're inferior while you're at it. Atheism doesn't make people better than others who aren't atheist. The world isn't black and white.
Wow.
Belief in the irrational is... irrational and a product of primitive times.
Primitive places.
And no, it doesn't make them better I never said as much belief or disbelief do not determine advancement.
Being able to halt your beliefs for the logical makes you advanced.
Coming from a agnostic mind you.
Erik, you basically walk around with a "Kick Me, Internet" sign on your back.
I think this thread should become the hot Ethiopian wimmins thread.
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 20, 2014, 02:47:37 AM
Erik, you basically walk around with a "Kick Me, Internet" sign on your back.
I enjoy the drama.
We can tell.
Indeed. *Tywin grumpy face*
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 02:30:39 AM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 20, 2014, 02:16:47 AM
Religion is useful in that it brings order and control over primitive people.
Are you serious? Primitive? You not just go ahead and say they're inferior while you're at it. Atheism doesn't make people better than others who aren't atheist. The world isn't black and white.
Wow.
The people aren't inferior. Their beliefs are inferior.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 20, 2014, 02:27:04 AM
It's true, look at medieval times, it was a great help and it is as such to countries not as fortunate today until humans advance to a certain point where-in it is no longer needed.
I said the same, essentially in Darths lent tirade.
Not even their beliefs. There is no single truth. People are religious because they as individuals choose to be. As a human being I show tolerance to their choice for I would want my own choice, religious or non-religious, to be at least tolerated in return, and I will not make any attempt to tell them they are wrong in their beliefs, religious or non-religious, for it would make my own beliefs look no better.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 03:45:08 AM
There is no single truth.
Doesn't mean all beliefs are correct and respectable.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 03:45:08 AM
As a human being I show tolerance to their choice for I would want my own choice, religious or non-religious, to be at least tolerated in return, and I will not make any attempt to tell them they are wrong in their beliefs, religious or non-religious, for it would make my own beliefs look no better.
No one is being intolerant of you as a person, Rich. Many of us just don't respect the Religion you draw some of your beliefs from. If you perceive that as a personal attack, that's on you.
Storytime with Mr. Sin is the best thing ever.
But it's not fact. Where's your scientific evidence?
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 20, 2014, 03:48:14 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 03:45:08 AM
As a human being I show tolerance to their choice for I would want my own choice, religious or non-religious, to be at least tolerated in return, and I will not make any attempt to tell them they are wrong in their beliefs, religious or non-religious, for it would make my own beliefs look no better.
No one is being intolerant of you as a person, Rich. Many of us just don't respect the Religion you draw some of your beliefs from. If you perceive that as a personal attack, that's on you.
Never said nor meant to imply anything of the sort, I'm just speaking generally.
Cool beans.
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 20, 2014, 03:57:30 AM
Storytime with Mr. Sin is the best thing ever.
Oh there are more to come, friend. :)
I wonder if I should make it a thread...
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 03:58:21 AM
But it's not fact. Where's your scientific evidence?
Of what?
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 20, 2014, 03:59:18 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 03:58:21 AM
But it's not fact. Where's your scientific evidence?
Of what?
He means evidence of its inanity... i.e. History...Actually I think my story covered that in a roundabout way.
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 20, 2014, 03:59:18 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 03:58:21 AM
But it's not fact. Where's your scientific evidence?
Of what?
I was replying to Sin about religion being "insane".
Scientific evidence for... a belief no longer being useful? That's... not something you do a science for.
lol these past four pages ... what the f**k am I reading hahahaha
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 04:04:02 AM
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 20, 2014, 03:59:18 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 03:58:21 AM
But it's not fact. Where's your scientific evidence?
Of what?
I was replying to Sin about religion being "insane".
Actually, the word was... INANE. ಠ , ಥ
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Quote from: Aspie on Apr 20, 2014, 04:05:17 AM
lol these past four pages ... what the f**k am I reading hahahaha
You are reading GOLD.
How I do enjoy story time.
Mr. Sin for Best New Member, Galaxy Awards 2014.
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 20, 2014, 04:09:40 AM
Mr. Sin for Best New Member, Galaxy Awards 2014.
Too kind, Cvalda. Many thanks.
I'm becoming one of them... ಠ◡ಠ
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 20, 2014, 04:12:06 AM
I'm becoming one of them... ಠ◡ಠ
˓(ᑊᘩᑊ⁎) sounds so ominous
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 20, 2014, 04:14:20 AM
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 20, 2014, 04:12:06 AM
I'm becoming one of them... ಠ◡ಠ
˓(ᑊᘩᑊ⁎) sounds so ominous
No, no. I fancy you all is my point. ಠ益ಠ indeed.....
be careful what you wish for
indeed
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 20, 2014, 04:17:34 AM
be careful what you wish for
What do you mean precisely?
It just seemed like a good time to drop that saying.
@ Sabby - Well then, it's not fact.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 20, 2014, 04:06:16 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 04:04:02 AM
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 20, 2014, 03:59:18 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 03:58:21 AM
But it's not fact. Where's your scientific evidence?
Of what?
I was replying to Sin about religion being "insane".
Actually, the word was... INANE. ಠ , ಥ
[ohwell]Read the first time inane as inane, read the second inane as insane.[/ohwell]
My bad, but I'd say that wouldn't be true, it's always served as a fuel for learning and reasoning which has been argued by many philosophers and still does somewhat today, this was especially true in dark ages Islam where Muslim mathematicians took algebra and trigonometry further, contributed with the base ten number system, etc. The dark ages wasn't actually that dark, just an over exaggerated and overly dramatic title over events like the plague, in fact wars were smaller as opposed to before the dark ages, it was, particularly in Islam, a period of enlightenment and learning.
But I kinda digress with my fancy for history.
Crazy, I think you're misunderstanding things here.
You cannot use science to demonstrate the usefulness of a belief. It's not a scientific thing.
What you can do is make a case for your belief, so I'm interested in hearing what you think Christianity offers to humanity in the 21st century.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 04:38:08 AM
@ Sabby - Well then, it's not fact.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 20, 2014, 04:06:16 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 04:04:02 AM
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 20, 2014, 03:59:18 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 03:58:21 AM
But it's not fact. Where's your scientific evidence?
Of what?
I was replying to Sin about religion being "insane".
Actually, the word was... INANE. ಠ , ಥ
[ohwell]Read the first time inane as inane, read the second inane as insane.[/ohwell]
My bad, but I'd say that wouldn't be true, it's always served as a fuel for learning and reasoning which has been argued by many philosophers and still does somewhat today, this was especially true in dark ages Islam where Muslim mathematicians took algebra and trigonometry further, contributed with the base ten number system, etc. The dark ages wasn't actually that dark, just an over exaggerated and overly dramatic title over events like the plague, in fact wars were smaller as opposed to before the dark ages, it was, particularly in Islam, a period of enlightenment and learning.
But I kinda digress with my fancy for history.
I would not call that a digression and in fact urge you to continue, perhaps then you will deduce what I'm saying, which is no secret to anyone, which is religion is a derivative of other older ideas. I'm not debating the merits of religion itself. That, again, is irrelevant in the 21st century where there are far more amenable reasons to do extraordinary things. Being the catalyst for something great does not equate to eternal greatness. The fact of the matter is simply that religion was useful, and is no longer useful but to a certain human with a genetic predisposition to susceptibility to indoctrination. Its really very simple to understand. I dont look at any ancient idea as mutually exclusive, they are all stolen from something earlier, hence not divine, ergo, allegorical fables, and thus, of no inherently sacred value to anyone but those who were quite literally told to believe in it.
In any event, I have no idea why this debate even exists in an age of recorded history.
Cavelda, look forward to another STORY TIME WITH MR. SIN in a bit! :)
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 20, 2014, 05:16:36 AM
Cavelda, look forward to another STORY TIME WITH MR. SIN in a bit! :)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2F2z4bwg5.jpg&hash=9192b266ad87cc4a053e015c17e3bed1682ecea7)
yaaaaay
@ Sabby (and Mr. Sin might as well consider this some kind of reply too, this post has some elements of what I'd say, I'm done for tonight and I don't feel like getting too invested to be honest, I'm not hardcore into this kind of stuff)
I highly doubt you would agree with it, but I guess I'll give my 2 cents.
It's obvious that there are the frankly dumb folk in religion firstly (but not all religious people), just getting that out of the way, now it's hard and maybe near impossible for me to talk about the world as a whole in this manner because they're are multiple truths, so I will look more at a specific level as it's more realistic. Understand that if you asked the same of me on behalf of atheism my kind of response would be no different, that's just how I roll as an individual.
Christianity can offer enlightenment and creativity amongst other things to people, of course you can find these things in other numerous ways but there are people who find it in Christianity, therefore who are we to gain say them? My specific example is a 20th/21st century Canadian named Bruce Cockburn (I think it's not actually pronounced like cock), a name that has shown up in my time at the school of environmental and natural resource sciences, Cockburn has had a musical career for over 40 years. Cockburn's lyrics reveal his passion for human rights, politics and Christianity. Cockburn was raised agnostic but in his early career chose to be a Christian to this day.
It's from Christianity that he found much of his inspiration in his early musical career, evident in his lyrics referring to his belief in Christianity especially in the 70's, and was accompanied by lyrics concerning/advocating human rights and environmentalism.
That is as realistic an answer as I can give, because "What has Christianity done for thee world in the 21st century" or even the same question but with atheism are just not good questions in my opinion. What should really be observed is how individuals interpret and use such things and how this has effected their choices in life, such as Cockburn's musical direction and advocating for human rights and environmentalism. After all, religion is just sitting there until the people choose otherwise. Ultimately, I doubt everyone would agree with this but as the saying goes "different horses for different courses".
I'd at least like to conclude my post with something that, unlike the rest of the discussion here, is genuinely interesting to me. The religious views of Albert Einstein. From what I interpreted, he basically threw religion and atheism into the same basket, because though they are polar opposites they are both the same in that neither can be scientifically observed yet insist on being legit regardless. Einstein was humbly content with the knowledge that our knowledge is imperfect, he associated himself with pantheism and is also viewed as agnostic. It's at the least a very interesting perspective and even pantheism to me is an interesting concept.
You keep on misusing the word science...
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 07:11:11 AM
From what I interpreted, he basically threw religion and atheism into the same basket, because though they are polar opposites they are both the same in that neither can be scientifically observed yet insist on being legit regardless.
You've stated similar in the past and multiple people have tried to explain to you why this is a faulty statement. How exactly do you observe, scientifically, a stance on a topic?
This might be the third time I've had to clarify this for you, but Atheism is merely a rejection of Religions claim that a God exists. It has nothing to do with the individuals opinion of Religion or science. You continue to demand that this be proven with science, but it makes as much sense as me demanding you provide scientific evidence that you believe in God.
Atheism and Religion are not the same thing. They're as similar as 'would you like fries?' and 'no'. Just because people ask for scientific evidence of things that Religious folks make definitive truth claims on doesn't necessarily mean the tables can be turned. Please try and remember this next time you post here.
Only I'm not misusing the word science.
You're using it right.
Just, you're using it right where it's entirely irrelevant to be using it.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 20, 2014, 07:59:41 AM
You're using it right.
Just, you're using it right where it's entirely irrelevant to be using it.
How so?
You asked earlier where the scientific "proof" that religion was insane was, which didn't really apply to the conversation, for one thing.
And now you're saying that because you can't disprove that God exists, scientifically belief and nonbelief are on the same footing -- which is false.
religion has been a vehicle for philosophy, and in this regard it has been useful to teach some good things about some basic morality, some good concepts (dont kill, dont get laid with your neighbor wife etc) but it could've been done without the need of religion.
So, even it has been useful, it was not completely necessary or the only way to do so...
You don't need religion to be good. It make some people to be good, yes, but it was not the only way. And looking at the whole picture, for me, it did and still does much more bad tan good.
And it's completely irrational, absurd, without any scientific base and it tends to interfere in individuals lives and liberties.
We would be much better without it.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 20, 2014, 08:04:54 AM
You asked earlier where the scientific "proof" that religion was insane was, which didn't really apply to the conversation, for one thing.
And now you're saying that because you can't disprove that God exists, scientifically belief and nonbelief are on the same footing -- which is false.
First part is a given I'll admit.
But what I'm saying is in atheism all your really required to do is not believe in a deity, true you can't observe that there is a deity, but at the same time that doesn't mean absolutely that there in no deity in one way or another either, yet it's insisted that there is no deity. It's the same as in religion when a deity can't be observed yet it is still insisted that there is deity. This itself is not the scientific part, when I say scientifically I refer to observing whether or not a deity exist through measurable evidence. Neither have measurable evidence, theism goes "yes" while atheism goes "no" when neither claims can be observed or measured.
As funny as a lot of that was, some bits just made me cringe. I've yet to meet a Christian, hardcore Bible-thumper or otherwise, who thought Christianity was the oldest religion, and
QuoteSumarian man: (⌒ー⌒) I know right? I totally think my kids need to remember all the outdated bullshit my barely literate ass thought up in a haze of primitive instinctuality. Then they can pass it on and even expand it!
I don't understand what point you think you're making here. It reads like you're saying it was a bad thing people invented writing and started passing down thoughts, ideas, laws, beliefs, etc. :-\
You can clarify your intent, which is more than can be said for the authors of, say, the Bible. Parody doesn't work as well when the message you're trying to lampoon doesn't actually get across in what you say.
(And I rescind "never met anyone who said Christianity was the oldest thing" when I take into account Seventh Day Adventists and the like.)
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 20, 2014, 08:49:24 AM
There is no message to lampoon. I don't quite religion, that is inconsequential. I would consider this more satire, and as such to be perceived entirely as a joke, which is what I personally find religion to have metamorphosed into.
I meant the point of that passage, but evidently you seem to wish to remain as vague and uninformative as the texts and authors you endeavour to satirize, rather than to offer any sort of explanation of enlightenment, and I suppose I will just have to accept this and move on.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 08:19:40 AM
But what I'm saying is in atheism all your really required to do is not believe in a deity, true you can't observe that there is a deity, but at the same time that doesn't mean absolutely that there in no deity in one way or another either, yet it's insisted that there is no deity.
You're entire stance of Atheism and Religion being the same seems to rely on this one assertion, yet you've been corrected on it multiple times. Atheism is disbelief. Yes, some Atheists go further and make the claim God is not real, but that's on them. It's something they pile on top of their Atheism.
Can you claim that something is not true and also believe in it? No. The claim it isn't true comes on top of disbelief. So even Atheists who claim God is not true are still operating on
disbelief. This is not hard to understand.
Yes, making the claim puts the burden on proof on them. You are absolutely correct. I don't claim God is not real specifically because I know I couldn't prove it. So we absolutely do agree on that. However, what I do claim is that a God is so unlikely to exist that I act as if it didn't.
Atheism and Religion are not the same thing. Deal with it.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 20, 2014, 08:49:24 AM
And furthermore the point of the passage was to convey that early humans were dolts with bad ideas that survived history unnecessarily along with some good ideas.
It's not really being a dolt if you don't even have the
means to know better. There's plenty to make fun of in religion, but disparaging the intelligence of the species thousands of years ago seems rather unfair, doesn't it? I'm sure in the same amount of time we'll be seen as the dolts with bad ideas that insist on living on.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 20, 2014, 08:57:51 AM
though why anyone owes you any explanation for their humor is beyond me.
Because you were using humour to make a point, and your point was lost; I wanted to know what it was, and asked. As I am entitled to do :)
Nice to see the cracks showing in your abject politeness! Ask a simple question, get an increasingly condescending answer. Thank you :)
Deal with it eh?
I said before that as far as beliefs go they are different, but in the perspective that neither can actually back up their stance through observation and measurement is awfully similar.
Deal with it.
:laugh:
Two seconds in a room with a person and I can turn them into a twat. Amazing.
For the record, if he'd just answered the first time, instead of answering, editing, deleting posts, editing, etc. this all would've been avoided, but no. Now I'm a dick. Wonderful.
In SiL I trust.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 20, 2014, 09:09:26 AM
How have you all managed to co exist with sil? What an exquisite Prima Donna. :P
Cos I'm perfectly amiable when people answer simple questions instead of being needlessly vague to uphold their aloof posturing on an Internet forum.
Not that you can read this, as you have me blocked.
Which is why you'll continue to reply after my posts, almost as though you could read them. Hm.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 09:10:54 AM
In SiL I trust.
Which is why you're blocked as well. :)
The ancient people were bigoted dolts! Religious people refuse to listen to opposition and reason! Now excuse me while I block everyone who agrees with someone I don't like.
Either that's irony or that's performance satire. Either way, I salute you.
Now I'm a dick too SiL!
Yay, we can be dick bu --
...
wait.
No.
Just.
No. Nevermind.
i'm.
must.
gooo.
But actually, y'know, on topic, Sabby is right. An absence of belief is not on the same ground as belief. An athiest doesn't necessarily choose to not believe, they often just feel there's no need to. It's not a matter of choice because they don't believe there's actually an option.
Oh joy my first enemy! ( ˘ ³˘)❤
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 09:04:02 AM
Deal with it eh?
I said before that as far as beliefs go they are different, but in the perspective that neither can actually back up their stance through observation and measurement is awfully similar.
Deal with it.
What stance would that be, exactly?
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 20, 2014, 09:31:08 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 20, 2014, 09:04:02 AM
Deal with it eh?
I said before that as far as beliefs go they are different, but in the perspective that neither can actually back up their stance through observation and measurement is awfully similar.
Deal with it.
What stance would that be, exactly?
I'm relatively certain he's a lost cause, Sabby.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 20, 2014, 09:31:08 AM
What stance would that be, exactly?
"There's definitely no God".
Which as you've explained, isn't actually what atheism is about.
Also if someone could perhaps inform Mr Sin on the meaning of the phrase, "Tilting at windmills", he might save himself some embarrassment.
Not lost, just willfully ignorant. His entire argument rests on a falsehood, so I imagine he's loath to amend himself and render his contention moot.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 20, 2014, 09:35:57 AM
Not lost, just willfully ignorant. His entire argument rests on a falsehood, so I imagine he's loath to amend himself and render his contention moot.
Indeed, he's as obstinate as SIL is arrogant... In my view, as I speak for nobody. :)
By the way, I don't think we've met formally, nice to meet you!
The feelings mutual, though I'd ask you to please be civil in my thread.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 20, 2014, 09:40:16 AM
The feelings mutual, though I'd ask you to please be civil in my thread.
I was nothing but, hence ignoring her as opposed to allowing her to bring out my negative side. She almost relished it, which is quite appalling.
Being passive aggressive is worse though. Either call him a c**t or don't. We value honesty in here sir :P
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 20, 2014, 09:43:23 AM
Being passive aggressive is worse though. Either call him a c**t or don't. We value honesty in here sir :P
SIL is a he? Oh. He seemed to catty to be male. In any event, I don't call people names usually, certainly not c**t. I would like to think I'm too direct to be passive aggressive. Be that as it may, I know when someone is merely wasting my time, as he was with his entitled personality.
He is the first person here to actually make me anything other than friendly.
Enough now, take it to PM please.
I'm sorry, Sabby, but I believe this is still on-point with the thread as a whole. If you disagree, I'll delete it immediately:
QuoteMy biggest pet peeve is a person who demands an explanation of someone.
I just want to highlight the absolute absurdity of a statement like this in a thread about atheism. I requested -- not demanded -- a response to a point I was unsure of. This is the absolute
foundation of not only these types of conversations, but of beliefs (and lack thereof) themselves. It is the absolute foundation of all of our accumulated knowledge. We have uncertainties, we have gaps in our knowledge, we seek the answers. Religion and science present two means of acquiring answers, one based on observation and the other on belief and hearsay.
How can anyone who seeks to argue for reason and logic, who criticises the bigotry, prejudice, and pig-headedness of religion, possibly have a problem with a person
requesting information so as to understand something?
People trying to shut down opposition to their statements, thoughts, and beliefs is not the exclusive domain of the religious. It's just human nature, and atheists are every bit as guilty of it as the people they hold such actions against.
That's fine Sil, perfectly on topic.
For the record, people, Mr Sin deleted many of his posts from the last few pages, hence my now-bizarre replies two pages back, which make me look even more like a raging dick than I often am. I'm not deleting my posts lest Sabby asks.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Apr 20, 2014, 09:47:49 AM
SIL is a he? Oh. He seemed to catty to be male.
Goddammit, Mr. Sin.
mannnnnnn how am I supposed to follow this shitfest when there are so many deleted posts :P
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 19, 2014, 10:59:07 PM
So far, just like last time, you've demonstrated yourself to be completely incapable of giving direct answers to direct questions. I asked you to look at the numbers I came up with. If you take issue with the methodology, by all means, tell me, but what you gave me was several paragraphs of nothing.
No I have given you a direct answer. God is not going to punish everyone but one denomination of Christians. The demonic can not fully imitate the abilities nor the Glory and Wisdom of God.
Now one problem I do have, besides what I posted, with your math-wing formula is that their is not as many denominations as you have posted. I looked into why you would think their so many different Christians. You are listing different organizations within denominations as separate Christians. Just an example you are saying that just between Russian Catholics and Italian Catholics their can be only one that is correct... Which goes completely against Church structure, and it also goes against the mercy of God since all you got to do is believe in him and declare him your Lord and Savior.
Lastly what I was pointing out before in my last comment, about the difference between Salvation in other religions, I brought those points up because if Christianity was caused by a demonic power and the other religions were true, just based on the objectives alone for them you would still go on to paradise because of the deeds good Christians do. So really you wouldn't be damned being a true Christian. On the other hand what the others religions do is lead you away from Jesus which is wrong because he warned the only way too salvation is through him.
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 20, 2014, 01:14:36 AM
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Apr 19, 2014, 05:58:23 PM
Men in Africa would have sex with primates, HIV is thought to have only been a disease they carried until it adapted to our biology.
In short this would never have been problem if they had not had sex with animals and then sex out of wedlock with multiple partners. If did this or became nonsextuals this disease would not be anywhere as near a problem as it is now.
So you're not just spectacularly ignorant, you're racist as well. Cute. Damn those Africans!
HIV jumped to humans from eating chimpanzees, dumbass, not f**king them.
Nothing is racist about what I said. As for your explanation for why HIV is now a human disease I will point out I found an article that shows that the matter is not clear. Some believe it was transmitted by a primate biting a human in Africa, some believe it was caused by humans who where unknowingly using a sick primate for medical tests and used these finds to produce vaccines, and these vaccines spread the virus. I did however see it was a fraud claim that the virus was spread through consumption of contaminated monkey meat.
Since there many claims on how the virus was spread their is no point talking about it.
those of you who wish to have fun with atheism, should join my new thread in the Rec area.
And SIL, I woke up on the right side of the bed... Your apology awaits you there.
Rinzler, even if there were only 10 different kinds of Christianity, it doesn't change the dilemma. You said demons create false religions. You haven't explained why you know you're in the correct one, rather then deceived by a demon.
Isn't to have faith nothing more than a having a blind belief or confidence in something? For instance when we say we have faith in someone to accomplish something that usually means we are assuming that they can do what we ask of them even thought there is no proof that they are capable of it.
The words faith and trust get mixed up a lot.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 20, 2014, 09:26:12 PM
The words faith and trust get mixed up a lot.
That's because they're synonymous.
Faith is blind, trust is informed.
God is something you simply have faith in, you're partner having dinner ready is something you trust them to do, based off what you already know.
People love to use the word faith when they mean trust to try and create a level playing field where one doesn't exist.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.gyazo.com%2Fddcbd8e4f6ada1429d583b454cc826e5.png&hash=06179eedf7338bedb6828dc1524a341bef468397)
Haha trust is informed.
Good one.
All I can say to that is I find that dictionary definition to be outdated. Faith and trust as I described is how the words have been used in every debate I've witnessed. Besides, there are still dictionary definitions of Atheism that are flat out wrong.
Well that's just noodles.
Squid sandwich! Nice transparent teapots.
I'm sorry, what? xD
Quote from: BANE on Apr 20, 2014, 09:53:22 PM
Well that's just noodles.
Squid sandwich! Nice transparent teapots.
:laugh:
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 20, 2014, 09:47:07 PM
All I can say to that is I find that dictionary definition to be outdated.
It's not outdated; he just chose a different context.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 20, 2014, 09:24:48 AM
But actually, y'know, on topic, Sabby is right. An absence of belief is not on the same ground as belief. An athiest doesn't necessarily choose to not believe, they often just feel there's no need to. It's not a matter of choice because they don't believe there's actually an option.
Isn't "not making a choice" in itself still a choice?
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 21, 2014, 12:55:53 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 20, 2014, 09:24:48 AM
But actually, y'know, on topic, Sabby is right. An absence of belief is not on the same ground as belief. An athiest doesn't necessarily choose to not believe, they often just feel there's no need to. It's not a matter of choice because they don't believe there's actually an option.
Isn't "not making a choice" in itself still a choice?
That's indifference. However it could still be construed as a choice if someones presents the option. Kind of like not having a nose piercing. It's something that none of us thought about getting yet if someone asked why we don't have one it isn't because we choose not to but more so the idea never surfaced in the first place.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 21, 2014, 12:55:53 AM
Isn't "not making a choice" in itself still a choice?
Not if you don't think there is a choice.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 21, 2014, 01:33:32 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 21, 2014, 12:55:53 AM
Isn't "not making a choice" in itself still a choice?
Not if you don't think there is a choice.
So in other words it narrows down to your own individual point of view?
Guys, thanks for helping me on my paper.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 21, 2014, 01:35:06 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 21, 2014, 01:33:32 AM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 21, 2014, 12:55:53 AM
Isn't "not making a choice" in itself still a choice?
Not if you don't think there is a choice.
So in other words it narrows down to your own individual point of view?
No, it's the absence of awareness that there's even a choice. That's the opposite of point of view.
dis thread xD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwHiQBLl9aU#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwHiQBLl9aU#ws)
Oh Broteam, stop baiting the Muslims xD
Pure Agnostic master-race.
Quote from: Sabby on Apr 24, 2014, 04:38:45 AMOh Broteam, stop baiting the Muslims xD
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdarkgate.net%2Fcomic%2Fimages%2Fjesusandmo%2F1398274807.png&hash=3d3ad348a74875d3ff4a6cd8e141638a427dc3a4)
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/1396049_722389994441766_89857214_n.jpg)
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 30, 2014, 01:16:56 PM
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/1396049_722389994441766_89857214_n.jpg)
Is that the guy who slaughtered like a thousand or more Palestinians with the jawbone of a donkey?
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 30, 2014, 02:43:01 PMIs that the guy who slaughtered like a thousand or more Palestinians with the jawbone of a donkey?
Nah, that was Samson.
Here's another pic from
The Awkward Moments Children's Bible:
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/n1.0-9/10178006_821518051195626_9151980512771619158_n.jpg)
I read through that bit a few days ago.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 30, 2014, 06:23:30 PM
I read through that bit a few days ago.
As in, Sunday in church? ;)
Nope. I haven't been to church since I was in HS unless you count the sundays I was in basic training and that was mainly as a reprieve to get away from the Drill Sergeants.
I do have a bible the Army gave to me that I'm trying to read through just 'cause. Way back in the day I think I made it through the gospels before I stopped. Trying to at least read it once all the way through. Then I might read the Koran.
Here's something you may have read in The Good Book:
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/1508983_633124716774391_3493476936790643641_n.png)
lol
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 30, 2014, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 30, 2014, 02:43:01 PMIs that the guy who slaughtered like a thousand or more Palestinians with the jawbone of a donkey?
Nah, that was Samson.
Here's another pic from The Awkward Moments Children's Bible:
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/n1.0-9/10178006_821518051195626_9151980512771619158_n.jpg)
Samson get's me lifted?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsYEHTyLbeE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsYEHTyLbeE)
Samson would be a good character to use a in a biblical action-comedy movie. Like in the vein of Arnold in Commando where he just obliterates mothaf**kas.
Deuteronomy 23:13 (http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/23-13.htm)/Ezekiel 4:12 (http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/4-12.htm)
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 30, 2014, 09:43:13 PM
Deuteronomy 23:13 (http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/23-13.htm)/Ezekiel 4:12 (http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/4-12.htm)
Does the recipe for human shit bread call for using human shit as a fuel source or as an actual ingredient?
http://www.nobeliefs.com/washingtonnews/EzekielBread.htm (http://www.nobeliefs.com/washingtonnews/EzekielBread.htm)
Quote from: maledoro on Apr 30, 2014, 07:06:50 PM
Here's something you may have read in The Good Book:
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/1508983_633124716774391_3493476936790643641_n.png)
Holy shit, lol. This isn't real, is it?
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 01, 2014, 11:27:57 AMHoly shit, lol. This isn't real, is it?
Sure it is. A friend of mine owns an Accord.
;)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdarkgate.net%2Fcomic%2Fimages%2Fjesusandmo%2F1398890743.png&hash=32a19a473aa43bdaa05f105558801d804ad3cf87)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkH1UA8N.jpg&hash=58c9631e44f12eeb1af87735b729f5893e60411d)
Quote from: Aspie on May 01, 2014, 06:24:46 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkH1UA8N.jpg&hash=58c9631e44f12eeb1af87735b729f5893e60411d)
Best comic ever ;D :D
YOUR MOVE MALEDORO
I was just thinking that I cannot come up with one scumbag/mean atheist in the world while there are plenty of scumbag religionists. Pat Robertson, Joel Osteen and pretty much every televangelist are guilty of being swindlers and charlatans. Atheists are really the most honest and reasonable human beings on the planet.
Dude, how many times are you going to make this fallacy? Atheists are no more unified in how they think and speak then Christians are. There's a reason you discuss beliefs before believers. Beliefs are static things, where as the people who hold them can be any number of things.
There are highly intelligent and kind Christians, and there are also dumb motherf**ker Atheists who believe that HIV is caused by drinking water. Your stance on God is NOT an indicator of your intelligence or politeness.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi49.tinypic.com%2F2u6lk4m.jpg&hash=2a187bdbb9faa7643889973dfb108c8e9ccdf1f1)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 02, 2014, 08:41:14 PM
I was just thinking that I cannot come up with one scumbag/mean atheist in the world while there are plenty of scumbag religionists. Pat Robertson, Joel Osteen and pretty much every televangelist are guilty of being swindlers and charlatans. Atheists are really the most honest and reasonable human beings on the planet.
You're your own perfect example. :-*
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 02, 2014, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 02, 2014, 08:41:14 PM
I was just thinking that I cannot come up with one scumbag/mean atheist in the world while there are plenty of scumbag religionists. Pat Robertson, Joel Osteen and pretty much every televangelist are guilty of being swindlers and charlatans. Atheists are really the most honest and reasonable human beings on the planet.
You're your own perfect example. :-*
Man there are a shit ton of scumbag prick atheist out there. However the guys he listed are certified pricks as well. :)
And?
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 02, 2014, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 02, 2014, 08:41:14 PM
I was just thinking that I cannot come up with one scumbag/mean atheist in the world while there are plenty of scumbag religionists. Pat Robertson, Joel Osteen and pretty much every televangelist are guilty of being swindlers and charlatans. Atheists are really the most honest and reasonable human beings on the planet.
You're your own perfect example. :-*
How so? I may be volatile towards religious people but at least I don't scam people or give out false promises and take peoples hard earned money. Look in the past and you'll see that all major conflicts and wars have been started by f**ktarded religious zealots.
Yes, because the assassination of Franz Ferdinand was a religious one.
Lolno.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 02, 2014, 11:42:32 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 02, 2014, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 02, 2014, 08:41:14 PM
I was just thinking that I cannot come up with one scumbag/mean atheist in the world while there are plenty of scumbag religionists. Pat Robertson, Joel Osteen and pretty much every televangelist are guilty of being swindlers and charlatans. Atheists are really the most honest and reasonable human beings on the planet.
You're your own perfect example. :-*
How so? I may be volatile towards religious people but at least I don't scam people or give out false promises and take peoples hard earned money. Look in the past and you'll see that all major conflicts and wars have been started by f**ktarded religious zealots.
You're so sad.
Look at any atheist that has an awful, cynical view of any Christian and calls them "Sheep" or "Stupid" for following a belief. There's plenty of them out there.
Quote from: Sabby on May 02, 2014, 08:46:12 PM
Dude, how many times are you going to make this fallacy? Atheists are no more unified in how they think and speak then Christians are. There's a reason you discuss beliefs before believers. Beliefs are static things, where as the people who hold them can be any number of things.
There are highly intelligent and kind Christians, and there are also dumb motherf**ker Atheists who believe that HIV is caused by drinking water. Your stance on God is NOT an indicator of your intelligence or politeness.
Thank you.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 03, 2014, 12:11:42 AM
Thank you.
Hey, I'm as aggressive towards institutionalized Religion as the next Anti-Theist, but I do try and be fair.
I think the pope's a cool guy.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 03, 2014, 12:11:42 AM
Look at any atheist that has an awful, cynical view of any Christian and calls them "Sheep" or "Stupid" for following a belief. There's plenty of them out there.
Well, if the Xtians follow a shepherd blindly, there isn't that much else to work with...
I'm going to be laughing so hard when we all die and y'all goto the dirty sink and I get to goto the glorious dishwasher.
Shoulda believed in Spoon-Jesus.
Quote from: maledoro on May 03, 2014, 12:01:19 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 03, 2014, 12:11:42 AM
Look at any atheist that has an awful, cynical view of any Christian and calls them "Sheep" or "Stupid" for following a belief. There's plenty of them out there.
Well, if the Xtians follow a shepherd blindly, there isn't that much else to work with...
Sure, but not all Christians are like that. I give you that many are, but many are
not as well, and just because they follow a belief, that does not make them sheep.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 04, 2014, 01:45:40 AMSure, but not all Christians are like that. I give you that many are, but many are not as well, and just because they follow a belief, that does not make them sheep.
So, those who aren't like that aren't Xtians? It's mandated in their holy book by their god that they should follow his instructions to the letter. Again, if they believe in their god as well as love and fear him, why aren't they following his instructions? If you're not one of them and are marching to a different drummer, wouldn't that make you not a Xtian but a "Dovahkinist"?
Spoons philosophy 101
Everyone is terrible. No exceptions.*
*
Spoiler
(Except Spoon)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/1610109_664719763602512_3937532665553693743_n.jpg)
the one true God
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10294227_227180030809575_2380354379672292505_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/10297751_651364221618908_3147331254846791590_n.png)
Quote from: maledoro on May 04, 2014, 12:19:28 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 04, 2014, 01:45:40 AMSure, but not all Christians are like that. I give you that many are, but many are not as well, and just because they follow a belief, that does not make them sheep.
So, those who aren't like that aren't Xtians? It's mandated in their holy book by their god that they should follow his instructions to the letter. Again, if they believe in their god as well as love and fear him, why aren't they following his instructions? If you're not one of them and are marching to a different drummer, wouldn't that make you not a Xtian but a "Dovahkinist"?
It's not so black and white, man. There are many Christians that believe that the Bible was written by man, and therefore, many things could have been misinterpreted. They still follow the principles of Christianity, but don't necessarily follow the Bible to the letter.
What are the Principals of Christianity?
I guarantee you, your answer will differ from other Christians answers.
Quote from: Sabby on May 05, 2014, 03:06:21 AM
What are the Principals of Christianity?
I guarantee you, your answer will differ from other Christians answers.
Love and tolerate your neighbor is the main one I follow.
I didn't ask which you follow, I asked what they are.
Oh, sorry. I'm tired as hell. Took down a hundred feet of briar thickets half as tall as me today.
I would assume you know. It's pretty common knowledge.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:15:11 AM
Oh, sorry. I'm tired as hell. Took down a hundred feet of briar thickets half as tall as me today.
I would assume you know. It's pretty common knowledge.
That's exactly his point, unless he's refering to the commandments.
Humor me. What are the Principals of Christianity. Or rather, what makes one a Christian?
someone who believes in the healing powah of jesus christ
Quote from: Sabby on May 05, 2014, 03:18:35 AM
Humor me. What are the Principals of Christianity. Or rather, what makes one a Christian?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F3%2F3b%2FParis_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg&hash=5a0356128c6a52b90dd4231a6e975e92a3f0bb41)
If you wanna get technical...
Loving and tolerating your neighbor.
Spreading the word of God.
Believing that God is real.
Believing that Christ is the son of God and died for our sins.
Believing that Christ is returning someday.
Now as for me, I've always been one to stand up for what I believe in. I've been a Christian for most of my life, but to tell the truth, recently I still haven't figured out what exactly to believe and not believe.
But I do choose to believe in God, and I do believe in the "loving and tolerating your neighbor" aspect of Christianity. It is a principle I personally live by. Now am I absolutely one-hundred percent positive that God exists? Absolutely not. But for now, I
choose to believe.
As for Atheists, I know several and they're great people. One of my best friends is an Atheist. But I have a particular distaste for the Atheists that personally insult Christians as being sheep or calling them stupid for following a belief. I can't help but think that they believe they're better than Christiansas human beings.
To do with religious Christians: Again, I live in the southern USA and there are
tons of religious Christians here. But the vast majority of them (that I have met, at least) have been some of the sweetest, most genuine people that I have ever met. My grandfather was an example. He was the kind of stinker that'd make fun of everyone. He wouldn't mean it, of course, and when it really came down to it, he truly appreciated everyone he met for who they are. I use him as an example of the best Christians. Now it is common knowledge that there are many,
many Christians that hate and criticize others for being Muslim, Gay, Atheist, etc. And they are just as bad as any Atheist that make fun of Christians for their beliefs.
There, I have posted everything I believe on Christianity/Atheism. Now seeing as how I really f**king hate this thread, I'll see myself out. Not mad at anyone, I just hate religious debates.
And Maledoro, those pictures you post may be funny to a lot of people here, but they aren't funny to me at all. They're pretty dickish, actually. You're basically mocking most of my family, there, dude.
but did you really expect that there wouldn't be those kinda pics in this thread?
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:42:45 AM
And Maledoro, those pictures you post may be funny to a lot of people here, but they aren't funny to me at all. They're pretty dickish, actually. You're basically mocking most of my family, there, dude.
How is pointing out inconsistencies and contradictions in something 'dickish?'.
If I believed in Homeopathy, would saying that water has no memory be offensive because I believe otherwise?
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on May 05, 2014, 03:46:58 AM
but did you really expect that there wouldn't be those kinda pics in this thread?
No, I did expect them. I was just kinda pointing it out because things that make fun of my family, even indirectly perturb me.
Quote from: Sabby on May 05, 2014, 03:49:38 AM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:42:45 AM
And Maledoro, those pictures you post may be funny to a lot of people here, but they aren't funny to me at all. They're pretty dickish, actually. You're basically mocking most of my family, there, dude.
How is pointing out inconsistencies and contradictions in something 'dickish?'.
If I believed in Homeopathy, would saying that water has no memory be offensive because I believe otherwise?
Those pictures are mainly making fun of the Christian religion, which is what most of my family follows. The inconsistencies aren't the only things those pictures feature. I don't have anything personal against Maledoro, but as stated above, when something makes fun of my family, even indirectly, it sparks a natural protective urge I have.
And did you not just read my post? It's not offensive to have a different belief. I don't care what anyone believes or doesn't believe. It doesn't offend me that you're an atheist and that you believe that God isn't real. I don't care about any of that. I honestly have no idea where you got that from my post.
Look, seriously, I'm done. Kindly respect the fact that I don't want anything else to do with this thread. I've spoken my peace.
You don't need to continue interacting here, but you can't ask that people not respond to what you've contributed. If you really don't want to read that, then you're free to not read it. I can respect your desire to not be in a discussion that upsets you, but I must ask you respect our right to hold a conversation amongst ourselves.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:04:37 AMIt's not so black and white, man. There are many Christians that believe that the Bible was written by man, and therefore, many things could have been misinterpreted. They still follow the principles of Christianity, but don't necessarily follow the Bible to the letter.
Yeah, man, it really is that black and white. Again, you're begging the question that if they pick and choose parts of the Bible how do they know what are the principles of Xtianity?
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:09:07 AM
Quote from: Sabby on May 05, 2014, 03:06:21 AM
What are the Principals of Christianity?
I guarantee you, your answer will differ from other Christians answers.
Love and tolerate your neighbor is the main one I follow.
So you ignore the rest?
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:15:11 AM
Oh, sorry. I'm tired as hell. Took down a hundred feet of briar thickets half as tall as me today.
I would assume you know. It's pretty common knowledge.
That's no excuse; you were on the forum hours before you had written that. Plus, as Sabby pointed out, there will be different answers.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:42:45 AM
Loving and tolerating your neighbor.
Spreading the word of God.
Believing that God is real.
Believing that Christ is the son of God and died for our sins.
Believing that Christ is returning someday.
Let's see, not only are a couple of them ripped from the Jews, most of them are more about feeding God's ego than helping Man.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:42:45 AMNow as for me, I've always been one to stand up for what I believe in. I've been a Christian for most of my life, but to tell the truth, recently I still haven't figured out what exactly to believe and not believe.
Let's hear it for Cafeteria Xtianity!
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:42:45 AMBut I do choose to believe in God, and I do believe in the "loving and tolerating your neighbor" aspect of Christianity. It is a principle I personally live by. Now am I absolutely one-hundred percent positive that God exists? Absolutely not. But for now, I choose to believe.
I could choose to believe I am a billionaire, but since I see no evidence of being one, it's a waste of time.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:42:45 AMAs for Atheists, I know several and they're great people. One of my best friends is an Atheist. But I have a particular distaste for the Atheists that personally insult Christians as being sheep or calling them stupid for following a belief. I can't help but think that they believe they're better than Christiansas human beings.
Have you ever even taken the time to ask yourself the very things that the atheists suggest?
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:42:45 AMTo do with religious Christians: Again, I live in the southern USA and there are tons of religious Christians here. But the vast majority of them (that I have met, at least) have been some of the sweetest, most genuine people that I have ever met. My grandfather was an example. He was the kind of stinker that'd make fun of everyone. He wouldn't mean it, of course, and when it really came down to it, he truly appreciated everyone he met for who they are. I use him as an example of the best Christians. Now it is common knowledge that there are many, many Christians that hate and criticize others for being Muslim, Gay, Atheist, etc. And they are just as bad as any Atheist that make fun of Christians for their beliefs.
I'm still waiting for the day when atheists band together and bomb, burn and just kill for what they believe.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:42:45 AMAnd Maledoro, those pictures you post may be funny to a lot of people here, but they aren't funny to me at all. They're pretty dickish, actually. You're basically mocking most of my family, there, dude.
Sorry you don't understand the basic tenets of your religion or just plain choose to ignore them.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 04:01:42 AMThose pictures are mainly making fun of the Christian religion, which is what most of my family follows. The inconsistencies aren't the only things those pictures feature. I don't have anything personal against Maledoro, but as stated above, when something makes fun of my family, even indirectly, it sparks a natural protective urge I have.
At least you acknowledge that there are inconsistencies in your sacred book. That would raise a flag for a normal person.
If you and your family follow a religion where its god threatens to torture you for eternity for not following him and take your religious cues from a book that proposes bad things and won't ask yourselves or your pastor why, that says more about you and your family than it does me.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 04:01:42 AMAnd did you not just read my post? It's not offensive to have a different belief. I don't care what anyone believes or doesn't believe. It doesn't offend me that you're an atheist and that you believe that God isn't real. I don't care about any of that. I honestly have no idea where you got that from my post.
It doesn't offend you until you hear the other point of view.
I noticed that a lot of the christian religions locally have adopted pretty simple rules. Especially the nutty evangelical sects.
God is Number 1.
Husband is number 2.
And all other things are considered far less important than those 2.
Maledoro, you fancy yourself better than Christians, don't you?
It's all fine and dandy to point out that yes, in the past, Christians have killed and burned for what they believed in. But that was a long, long time ago. I'm going to use the main example I can think of here: The Roman Catholic Church. They do not account for all Christians. And Christians have been largely slaughtered in the past for their beliefs as well. Time to stop holding grudges, buddy boy.
And yes, as far as I can tell, your views on Christianity are very narrow, dogmatic and black-and-white. There are such things as agnostic believers that you're not accounting for at all.
Sure, there is no evidence of God existing, but there is also no evidence of God not existing. It hasn't been proven. And until that day, yes, I will choose to believe.
QuoteIt doesn't offend you until you hear the other point of view.
How are you getting that I'm offended by Atheists' point of view? I'm offended by Atheists making fun of Christians, but I'm also offended of Christians condemning Atheists. I've said that about three times. I still don't know how you haven't gotten that.
QuoteIf you and your family follow a religion where its god threatens to torture you for eternity for not following him and take your religious cues from a book that proposes bad things and won't ask yourselves or your pastor why, that says more about you and your family than it does me.
I'm willing to bet that you've had a bad experience with Christians in the past, haven't you? You seem to have a distinct personal vendetta against them, no matter who they are.
People continue to kill in the name of religion. It's not a thing of the past.
Agnostics aren't the same as Christians. Christians believe there is a god - black and white. Agnostic: "a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God."
There is no evidence of unicorns not existing. So should we believe in unicorns? There is no evidence of dragons not existing so maybe we should believe in them too? I don't know... let's go wild. How about a giant man in the sky whose preachings and associated stories contain many conflicting pieces of "information" and scientifically impossible scenarios? That sounds fun.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:05:35 PM
There are such things as agnostic believers that you're not accounting for at all.
what
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:05:35 PM
Sure, there is no evidence of God existing, but there is also no evidence of God not existing. It hasn't been proven. And until that day, yes, I will choose to believe.
The entire lack of evidence of his existence
is evidence of him not existing.
How did you manage to use pretty much every limp Theist defense in one go? This will take some doing...
QuoteIt's all fine and dandy to point out that yes, in the past, Christians have killed and burned for what they believed in.
Atrocities are still being committed with a Religious justification.
QuoteThey do not account for all Christians. And Christians have been largely slaughtered in the past for their beliefs as well. Time to stop holding grudges, buddy boy.
So long as you and other Christians all subscribe to one book as your unifying moral guideline, the whole "There are good Christians out there" angle is meaningless. I'm sure there are White Supremacists out there who are just lovely, but that doesn't change the beliefs that they hold up, regardless of whether they personally follow them.
This is why I try specifically to avoid targeting believers and instead focus on what they believe, since the beliefs are a static thing.
QuoteSure, there is no evidence of God existing, but there is also no evidence of God not existing. It hasn't been proven. And until that day, yes, I will choose to believe.
Sure, there's no evidence of Campbells Soup answering prayers, but there is also no evidence that it doesn't, so that justifies believing it.
QuoteHow are you getting that I'm offended by Atheists' point of view? I'm offended by Atheists making fun of Christians, but I'm also offended of Christians condemning Atheists. I've said that about three times. I still don't know how you haven't gotten that.
You specifically mentioned the pictures that have been linked in this thread, which point out genuine contradictions in your beliefs. If that is offensive to you, then
you should probably ask yourself why.QuoteI'm willing to bet that you've had a bad experience with Christians in the past, haven't you? You seem to have a distinct personal vendetta against them, no matter who they are.
I doubt it, just many people, myself included, are tired of Religions being unapproachable. They are not. Sometimes a little shock value is whats needed to drive home the fact that these taboo subjects are not above criticism. If you don't like that, then once again, you need to have a close examination of what you believe and why.
Basically, if it hurts to hear that the Bible isn't great, then you probably don't have a very strong reason to believe it.
pseudo-intellectualism maaaang
it's a non-stop disco bet you it was Nabisco bet you didn't know
QuoteAtrocities are still being committed with a Religious justification.
I don't recall anything recently about Christians burning people at the stake for their religion.
QuoteSure, there's no evidence of Campbells Soup answering prayers, but there is also no evidence that it doesn't, so that justifies believing it.
So what you're saying is that to you, Campbells Soup is just as likely to exist as a God than a Christian God?
QuoteYou specifically mentioned the pictures that have been linked in this thread, which point out genuine contradictions in your beliefs. If that is offensive to you, then you should probably ask yourself why.
There are those, but there are also the ones that
ridicule Christians. I don't care about them pointing out the contradictions, it's the ridicule that makes me angry.
Quote from: Cvalda on May 05, 2014, 03:31:15 PM
The entire lack of evidence of his existence is evidence of him not existing.
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
Quote from: Vickers on May 05, 2014, 03:30:52 PM
Agnostics aren't the same as Christians. Christians believe there is a god - black and white. Agnostic: "a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God."
I never said they were the same. Agnostic believers are people that choose to believe in God, but really wouldn't be too heartbroken to find out that God isn't real.
I don't know why I came back to this thread.
QuoteI don't recall anything recently about Christians burning people at the stake for their religion.
Checked the Middle East lately? Uganda?
QuoteSo what you're saying is that to you, Campbells Soup is just as likely to exist as a God than a Christian God?
Not at all, I'm saying that your reasoning can be used for literally anything.
"There is no evidence for blank, but you can't prove blank does not exist"
We can't prove a negative dude. You have it backwards. You start with disbelief and work towards belief, not the other way around.
QuoteThere are those, but there are also the ones that ridicule Christians. I don't care about them pointing out the contradictions, it's the ridicule that makes me angry.
Once again, so what? Are you really so fragile that a fundamental part of your life can't be touched at all? Sorry, but all I can say is
harden the f**k up dude.QuoteThe absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
Yes it is. We see no evidence of the Grenkdelferbquewits. Kind of makes it look not true.
QuoteI never said they were the same. Agnostic believers are people that choose to believe in God, but really wouldn't be too heartbroken to find out that God isn't real.
So why include them when discussing Christianity?
You do know that a lot of recent wars have had religion at their core. And individuals around the world continue to physically attack others who don't adhere to their own ridiculous beliefs.
Unicorn God is just as logical as many of the scenarios in the bible. So I think we should acknowledge her and pray to her. There's no evidence of her not existing.
I used to be agnostic. It was when I was questioning things more and more and didn't want to believe that there was nothing after death. So I thought, "Hmm, being agnostic sounds like the safe bet so IF God is real, I still get through dem holy gates and get a swanky pad in heaven." Agnostic is just a fancy way of saying, "I want to believe God is real but a part of me realises that there's a lot that doesn't add up." I thought I was being open minded but it was just a way to comfort myself in the transition from "Christian" to atheist. If you do believe God is real, you're a Christian (or whatever religion you were raised to believe is the right one) - it's as simple as that. If you're agnostic, you shouldn't be as offended as you are now.
On that subject - how do people know their religion is the correct one? Are there different gods and afterlifes for different religions? Is God really going to send people of all other religions to a fiery pit? Or will they just live in God's basement while the agnostics live in swanky pads and the Christians live in the mansions of heaven?
QuoteChecked the Middle East lately? Uganda?
And, those people, they're Christians committing those atrocities? If so, then my apologies.
QuoteOnce again, so what? Are you really so fragile that a fundamental part of your life can't be touched at all? Sorry, but all I can say is harden the f**k up dude.
I don't care about it for myself. I care about it for the sake of my family because most of them, if not all of them, are Christians. It's kind of a credo I live by. "f**k with me all you want but do not f**k with my family." I realize that I should take it in stride, but it's just something that I can't help. I've always naturally felt the urge to protect my family.
QuoteSo why include them when discussing Christianity?
The only reason I included them really is because I was trying to make the point that it's not so black and white when it comes to belief.
QuoteIf you're agnostic, you shouldn't be as offended as you are now.
Vicks...again, I will say that I am not offended for myself. I am offended for my family by those pictures.
No one is attacking your family.
"Jesus sounds like a dick"
"Hey, my family loves Jesus! Why are you attacking my family?!"
Sorry dude, but this is all on you. Beliefs have no rights. Anyone who is actually hurt by a belief being attacked is throwing themselves in the way.
Has your family personally been offended by those pictures or are you getting offended because you think your family would get offended?
Cos there isn't much point of y'alls bickering if your family isn't even offended :p
I know no one is personally attacking my family. I know that. It's not like I think those pictures were made to attack my family personally and I have to take a stand to fight them. But a lot of those pictures are basically calling Christians morons and mocking them.
Mocking Christians=Mocking my Christian family.
Again, I know I should take it in stride, but it's just something that grinds my gears.
QuoteHas your family personally been offended by those pictures or are you getting offended because you think your family would get offended?
Cos there isn't much point of y'alls bickering if your family isn't even offended :p
It's not like that, dude. It's really just the principle of the matter to me.
I know I'm being sensitive about my family, but again, it's just something I can't help. I've always fought for my family.
People around the world still use Christianity as a basis when physically attacking others who don't adhere to it. You know how you're all for same-sex couples? Well, with many Christians, that just doesn't fly. You know how you don't like to discriminate? Well many do discriminate. I've seen many Christians take parts of the bible that they want to believe in, ignore the rest, and they think they're Christians. To me, that just sounds like adapting your own religion.
I have family who are Christian but that doesn't mean I have to believe in the same things they do. Nor do I think they're getting attacked by the posts in this thread. They already know my views on religion. Your family isn't getting personally attacked. Nobody here has singled out members of your family and attacked them. Religion in general is just shown for what it really is in this thread. I'm sure your family are lovely people. But Christianity (which is not their doing) is still full of holes, conflicting preachings and idiotic fantastical scenarios.
And if these pictures really make you angry, just pray for us or something.
You've avoided a lot of the things brought up. That's offensive to Unicorn God.
Okay, I think I see the problem here.
You see an attack on Christian beliefs to be an attack on those that hold them. You don't think that could be projecting on your part? Don't we have an obligation as adults in a society to adopt beliefs for good reasons? Why put a responsibility on everyone else to just blindly respect whatever you choose to believe?
Sorry, but I don't want to live in a society where we choose to placate people rather then grow intellectually.
QuoteYour family isn't getting personally attacked.
I know that.
QuoteNobody here has singled out members of your family and attacked them.
I know that.
QuoteWell, with many Christians, that just doesn't fly.
I know that.
QuoteWell many do discriminate.
I know that.
QuoteTo me, that just sounds like adapting your own religion.
That's absolutely fine, man. I've heard that from everyone else in the whole thread.
As I've said about five times, I know that I should take it all in stride and not get so hot and bothered about it. And to tell the truth, I'm not anymore. I just naturally feel the need to protect my family, no matter what. But I'm totally over it now. Seriously. We can stop talking about it.
QuoteWhy put a responsibility on everyone else to just blindly respect whatever you choose to believe?
That does make sense, man. It does. I know that I shouldn't have been so bothered by it, and I'm not bothered by it anymore, but I
was because...well, I've said it so many times, but here we go again. I've always felt the distinct need to protect my family.
And now that we've gotten all of that out of the way, I'm going to leave. For realsies now.
Rest assured I will not be returning here.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-lhXtWw8K0n0%2FU0Q4wzLJSDI%2FAAAAAAAAWQ4%2F0NBEtF3uD3I%2Fs320%2Ftumblr_n3obafwAcP1qlzuomo4_r1_400.gif&hash=b91885501d73711a8e2d3ded9b0119e958180b81)
Love you too, Cvalda. :-*
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Thank you Dovah, I can respect the twitch reflex. You've at least listened and demonstrated that you understand others position. Believe it or not, I understand your position as well, just we obviously disagree, and we should be able to discuss that. There was no offense or antagonism intended, despite my swearing. I'm just a swearer :P
I lost a few hundred brain cells today.
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 05, 2014, 04:47:32 PM
I lost a few hundred brain cells today.
You said your daily prayer?
Wut
did u get ur daily bread
No, it was this thread.
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 05, 2014, 04:54:51 PM
No, it was this thread.
but Cal, all this intellectualism!!!!!
where is u popularspork
can you prove that you're here
can you disprove it?
disconfirming evidence or gtfo gregarioussoupladle
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fd24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net%2Fphoto%2Fa8WAyyZ_460sa.gif&hash=f325bdd12bb2e1af7ace77a416a3e62a2145102f)
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/05/supreme-court-religious-minorities-dont-have-a-prayer/?hpt=hp_t1 (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/05/supreme-court-religious-minorities-dont-have-a-prayer/?hpt=hp_t1)
Well if there was any question which way the SCOTUS leans this pretty much answered it. :)
Since there seems to be a spurt of interest on the thread of Atheism. I thought I'd start a thread for the believers.
As I am one myself. Whether your Christian, Catholic, Buddhist, Jewish, Islamic etc. It doesn't matter. I'd like to hear from Believers
not trolls or non-believers. Whats your opinion on your faith opposed to other religions who also have a highpower within their beliefs?
How do you think God should be worshiped or your higherpower?
Oh god.
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 06, 2014, 12:22:43 AM
Oh god.
Took the damn words right out of my mouth.
Chronicle be all like:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130926141604%2Fthehungergames%2Fimages%2Fe%2Fe7%2FY_all_Mofo_s_Need_Jesus._It_s_true_fd660e_4021231.jpg&hash=aef73687a5cb757892b15f0afde586f362c84af6)
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50491.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50491.0)
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:05:35 PM
Maledoro, you fancy yourself better than Christians, don't you?
No, nor do I consider myself fancy.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:05:35 PMIt's all fine and dandy to point out that yes, in the past, Christians have killed and burned for what they believed in. But that was a long, long time ago. I'm going to use the main example I can think of here: The Roman Catholic Church. They do not account for all Christians. And Christians have been largely slaughtered in the past for their beliefs as well. Time to stop holding grudges, buddy boy.
They still burn buildings and kill people in the South, chuckles.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:05:35 PMAnd yes, as far as I can tell, your views on Christianity are very narrow, dogmatic and black-and-white. There are such things as agnostic believers that you're not accounting for at all.
First, it's your book, not mine. Second, the agnostics are not strict believers in deities.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:05:35 PMSure, there is no evidence of God existing, but there is also no evidence of God not existing. It hasn't been proven. And until that day, yes, I will choose to believe.
Ah, yes: the Negative Proof Fallacy. When will theists realize how stupid it is to use that?
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:05:35 PMHow are you getting that I'm offended by Atheists' point of view? I'm offended by Atheists making fun of Christians, but I'm also offended of Christians condemning Atheists. I've said that about three times. I still don't know how you haven't gotten that.
Simple: showing the folly of your beliefs is what you equate with "making fun".
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:05:35 PMI'm willing to bet that you've had a bad experience with Christians in the past, haven't you? You seem to have a distinct personal vendetta against them, no matter who they are.
Wrong on both counts.
This is not a thread for you godless heathens!
Unlock this thread plz:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=878.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=878.0)
lol kimarhi maledoro would tarnish ur belief system
Between the Season for Lint and Atheist threads, we pretty much have covered Xtianity and other belief systems. We don't need a retread.
Quote from: Aspie on May 06, 2014, 12:28:25 AM
Chronicle be all like:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130926141604%2Fthehungergames%2Fimages%2Fe%2Fe7%2FY_all_Mofo_s_Need_Jesus._It_s_true_fd660e_4021231.jpg&hash=aef73687a5cb757892b15f0afde586f362c84af6)
Then I be all like:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2F73c4de980139f31593a4e5995165834d%2Ftumblr_mvgbqpZsJc1qf07h2o1_1280.jpg&hash=d8b981606512a48b4df777018c160ed9e13c780a)
Quote from: maledoro on May 06, 2014, 12:34:11 AM
Between the Season for Lint and Atheist threads, we pretty much have covered Xtianity and other belief systems. We don't need a retread.
Quote from: Aspie on May 06, 2014, 12:28:25 AM
Chronicle be all like:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130926141604%2Fthehungergames%2Fimages%2Fe%2Fe7%2FY_all_Mofo_s_Need_Jesus._It_s_true_fd660e_4021231.jpg&hash=aef73687a5cb757892b15f0afde586f362c84af6)
Then I be all like:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Floltheists.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2Fpray-for-me-to-stop.jpg&hash=9c09b84eb7bbce8caa07a99b330cb58479a2fc8d)
Well the topic of the original thread for Atheism was concentrated on the topic of Atheism only. I don't see any text about discussion of believers in a higherpower or some sort of structured religion. This thread will be for that only. Simple as that.
Quote from: Chronicle on May 06, 2014, 12:41:10 AMWell the topic of the original thread for Atheism was concentrated on the topic of Atheism only. I don't see any text about discussion of believers in a higherpower or some sort of structured religion. This thread will be for that only. Simple as that.
Once again, the Followers of Christ skip over the important parts of what has been presented to them. Verily, I say unto thee, there hast been a plethora, yea, a plethora of the discussion of believers in a higher power and the structure of religion. Should ye yearn for more of such, get thee to a church or
pinocchio parochial school of such religious bent, yea.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/1505515_515143978607542_3126956494349516265_n.jpg)
Quote from: Aspie on May 06, 2014, 12:28:55 AM
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50491.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50491.0)
Yeah, because that turned out so well.
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 06, 2014, 01:25:55 AM
Quote from: Aspie on May 06, 2014, 12:28:55 AM
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50491.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50491.0)
Yeah, because that turned out so well.
It's a trap. They're just trying to lure us into their churc.... threads so they can brainwash us!
:P
Homosapiens... *Shakes head*
They just can't help being arseholes.
Well, I'm refering to both parties really.
This'll end like one of Rinzler's topics.
http://higherperspective.com/2014/05/1500-year-old-bible-claims-jesus-christ-crucified-vatican-awe.html?utm_source=ETT (http://higherperspective.com/2014/05/1500-year-old-bible-claims-jesus-christ-crucified-vatican-awe.html?utm_source=ETT)
I'm pretty skeptical of this because of the source, but figured I'd leave it here.
This is a thread for believers. Why post here if your not? Everyone has a right to their own beliefs and ridiculing someone for what they believe in doesn't make them look bad.
I am a believer, and my faith keeps a peace in my heart that is difficult to explain but it keeps me happy and content. It's faith that carried me through being a young widow years ago, that brought this wonderful kid from another country into my life, and no amount of ridicule or mean spirited jokes is going to change my views. Sorry :)
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on May 06, 2014, 12:42:10 PM
This is a thread for believers. Why post here if your not? Everyone has a right to their own beliefs and ridiculing someone for what they believe in doesn't make them look bad.
I am a believer, and my faith keeps a peace in my heart that is difficult to explain but it keeps me happy and content. It's faith that carried me through being a young widow years ago, that brought this wonderful kid from another country into my life, and no amount of ridicule or mean spirited jokes is going to change my views. Sorry :)
As long as there are Bleevers in the Atheist thread...
Quote from: Sabby on May 06, 2014, 05:36:17 AM
http://higherperspective.com/2014/05/1500-year-old-bible-claims-jesus-christ-crucified-vatican-awe.html?utm_source=ETT (http://higherperspective.com/2014/05/1500-year-old-bible-claims-jesus-christ-crucified-vatican-awe.html?utm_source=ETT)
I'm pretty skeptical of this because of the source, but figured I'd leave it here.
Usually if it isn't found in the mainstream, it's bullshit.
FYI, I'm going to keep a close eye on this thread. Things may get out of hand. Let's keep it calm, everyone.
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 06, 2014, 01:08:30 PM
FYI, I'm going to keep a close eye on this thread. Things may get out of hand. Let's keep it calm, everyone.
One of them used a British expletive and another improper spelling.
Greetings, as a secularist, I think all the jokes on behalf of fellow atheists lies with the fact that there is an understanding that what makes a person feel good, such as a faith, does not automatically equate to truth. That, and the fact that those of faith insist on being respected give atheists more reason to do the opposite. As it stands Christianity is a hiccup in the annals of human history, so I at least, see it for what it is, which for the time being, is quite an influential phenomenon, but rest assured in time, your faith will be completely overwritten by human intellect. This is not a jab, but a mere statement about all belief systems that require supernatural acceptance.
Enjoy your moment, but do not hope or insist upon respect from those who have no need for faith. There are plenty of ways to find personal solace that don't require faith. They may seem cold, they may seem sad to a person of god, even unfathomable, but that is to be expected. For example, I love my son, he is my world, but I understand that I feel this way as a direct biological imperative to keep him alive to spread my genetic code further. If I didn't love him, love being defined as deep affection and compassion for a person, he would be neglected and thusly, while his survival would not assuredly come to an end, it would have a higher probability of doing so. Just because I know why I am designed to love him does not diminish said affection.
Another example: I grieve over dead loved ones, but need not think I will ever see them again, just as when I die, I'm aware that I'll never know my wife's kiss, my sons smile, or the warmth of human bonds. Rest assured this fact keeps me up many nights despite genetic evidence on a hereditary level that suggests I will live into my 90s... Be that as it may, my inevitable non existence frightens and saddens me, but I would not be so scared as to diminish the splendor of sentient existence by hoping in afterlife. To me, andyself only, as I speak for nobody, it's a craven thought which diminishes our ability to absorb all the splendor this world has to offer. I will die. I will never exist again, and I'm thankful to have been born with the ability to feel all the emotions I have ever known precisely because I know they will not last.
Faith, for myself, is a fascinating mechanism, and I can appreciate when it comforts a person, I just don't need that comfort because I understand, personally, that humans aren't supposed to feel happy all the time. Sorrow is just as magnificent as joy, especially when I consider the statistical probability that granted my formation.
I hope this message finds ALL people well.
Chronicle started this thread as a group for Believers, lets respect that and let them have their space guys.
Quote from: Sabby on May 06, 2014, 01:57:31 PM
Chronicle started this thread as a group for Believers, lets respect that and let them have their space guys.
Perhaps you can leave your authoritarian posts elsewhere. I for one wasn't antagonistic in the slightest. This is a public forum, to suggest some sort of exclusivity is naive at best, and ludicrous at worst. This is about dialogue.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on May 06, 2014, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: Sabby on May 06, 2014, 01:57:31 PM
Chronicle started this thread as a group for Believers, lets respect that and let them have their space guys.
Perhaps you can leave your authoritarian posts elsewhere. I for one wasn't antagonistic in the slightest. This is a public forum, to suggest some sort of exclusivity is naive at best, and ludicrous at worst. This is about dialogue.
There's a thread for that already.
Quote from: maledoro on May 06, 2014, 01:15:17 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 06, 2014, 01:08:30 PM
FYI, I'm going to keep a close eye on this thread. Things may get out of hand. Let's keep it calm, everyone.
One of them used a British expletive and another improper spelling.
I don't think there will be much trouble as most posters are quite adept at making people comfortable...
Wait, which forum is this?
Quote from: Sabby on May 06, 2014, 02:03:58 PM
Quote from: Mr. Sin on May 06, 2014, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: Sabby on May 06, 2014, 01:57:31 PM
Chronicle started this thread as a group for Believers, lets respect that and let them have their space guys.
Perhaps you can leave your authoritarian posts elsewhere. I for one wasn't antagonistic in the slightest. This is a public forum, to suggest some sort of exclusivity is naive at best, and ludicrous at worst. This is about dialogue.
There's a thread for that already.
We can discuss Christianity openly in this thread. Just don't attack anyone.
Important Life Lesson:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2F2ch8ilg.png&hash=c3970efcfadf903df4dd8e282712cbd1612bd1e5)
Quote from: maledoro on May 06, 2014, 01:15:17 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 06, 2014, 01:08:30 PM
FYI, I'm going to keep a close eye on this thread. Things may get out of hand. Let's keep it calm, everyone.
One of them used a British expletive and another improper spelling.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clipartoday.com%2F_images%2Fz221174.jpg&hash=1c4b1cdb3ce3e6a22f8de18560ac84e0cc038e7a)
:)
Of course I can. Guy gave me two hands for a reason.
This thread shouldn't be.
It is a tear in the veil.
Please no provocation.
Lol okay, let it die then like all the rest of the religious threads.
Wow, where's the tolerance?
Seriously you guys kind of look like bigots. I'm an athiest, and quite an asshole, but just leave the f**kers alone.
Not trying to be a whiteknight fag, just being a whiteknight fag I guess.
Quote from: RagingDragon on May 06, 2014, 04:00:59 PM
Seriously you guys kind of look like bigots.
Not trying to be a whiteknight fag, just being a whiteknight fag I guess.
:P
Quote from: Cvalda on May 06, 2014, 04:03:09 PM
Quote from: RagingDragon on May 06, 2014, 04:00:59 PM
Seriously you guys kind of look like bigots.
Not trying to be a whiteknight fag, just being a whiteknight fag I guess.
:P
Phag.
Quote from: Cvalda on May 06, 2014, 04:03:09 PM
Quote from: RagingDragon on May 06, 2014, 04:00:59 PM
Seriously you guys kind of look like bigots.
Not trying to be a whiteknight fag, just being a whiteknight fag I guess.
:P
Cvalda, we all know that whiteknight must be followed by the word fag. It is internet law.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m4idna2XDK1r9bmsu.gif&hash=7492fa16d29baf9946f61150726c35ff3feb4172)
;D
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on May 06, 2014, 12:42:10 PM
This is a thread for believers. Why post here if your not? Everyone has a right to their own beliefs and ridiculing someone for what they believe in doesn't make them look bad.
I am a believer, and my faith keeps a peace in my heart that is difficult to explain but it keeps me happy and content. It's faith that carried me through being a young widow years ago, that brought this wonderful kid from another country into my life, and no amount of ridicule or mean spirited jokes is going to change my views. Sorry :)
Question for ya Alice. I've been told the Bible is very contradictory to itself, in certain areas. How does one reconcile this as you read it?
so y'all are believers...
but...
ARE YOU BELIEBERS? :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se6BezB1IQo#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se6BezB1IQo#ws)
Quote from: RagingDragon on May 06, 2014, 04:00:59 PM
Wow, where's the tolerance?
Seriously you guys kind of look like bigots. I'm an athiest, and quite an asshole, but just leave the f**kers alone.
Not trying to be a whiteknight fag, just being a whiteknight fag I guess.
Not a lack of tolerance, just saying the only thing that keeps threads going is discussion and if there's no discussion because everyone agrees then the thread dies, if this is always going to happen there's no point in the thread in the first place.
Maybe this will be an exception but I really doubt it.
Discussion is fine. But discussion =/= attacking someone else just because you disagree with them.
I think it's unfair to be called a bigot for explaining why I don't need faith.
Who called you a bigot?
Quote from: Mr. Sin on May 06, 2014, 01:35:57 PM
Greetings, as a secularist, I think all the jokes on behalf of fellow atheists lies with the fact that there is an understanding that what makes a person feel good, such as a faith, does not automatically equate to truth. That, and the fact that those of faith insist on being respected give atheists more reason to do the opposite. As it stands Christianity is a hiccup in the annals of human history, so I at least, see it for what it is, which for the time being, is quite an influential phenomenon, but rest assured in time, your faith will be completely overwritten by human intellect. This is not a jab, but a mere statement about all belief systems that require supernatural acceptance.
Enjoy your moment, but do not hope or insist upon respect from those who have no need for faith. There are plenty of ways to find personal solace that don't require faith. They may seem cold, they may seem sad to a person of god, even unfathomable, but that is to be expected. For example, I love my son, he is my world, but I understand that I feel this way as a direct biological imperative to keep him alive to spread my genetic code further. If I didn't love him, love being defined as deep affection and compassion for a person, he would be neglected and thusly, while his survival would not assuredly come to an end, it would have a higher probability of doing so. Just because I know why I am designed to love him does not diminish said affection.
Another example: I grieve over dead loved ones, but need not think I will ever see them again, just as when I die, I'm aware that I'll never know my wife's kiss, my sons smile, or the warmth of human bonds. Rest assured this fact keeps me up many nights despite genetic evidence on a hereditary level that suggests I will live into my 90s... Be that as it may, my inevitable non existence frightens and saddens me, but I would not be so scared as to diminish the splendor of sentient existence by hoping in afterlife. To me, andyself only, as I speak for nobody, it's a craven thought which diminishes our ability to absorb all the splendor this world has to offer. I will die. I will never exist again, and I'm thankful to have been born with the ability to feel all the emotions I have ever known precisely because I know they will not last.
Faith, for myself, is a fascinating mechanism, and I can appreciate when it comforts a person, I just don't need that comfort because I understand, personally, that humans aren't supposed to feel happy all the time. Sorrow is just as magnificent as joy, especially when I consider the statistical probability that granted my formation.
I hope this message finds ALL people well.
Just because you couch your arrogant post in fluffy language and bury it in huge paragraphs doesn't mean it's not offensive. You flat say you don't respect religious people and that they're basically stupid for believing what they believe.
I was generalizing that this entire forum is a bigoted freak-out reaction to a topic meant to be a discussion among Christians.
Get over yourself. If you didn't want an argument, why spend the time to write such long freaking posts that are basically off-topic? The OP didn't ask you what you thought as an Athiest or some sort of self-declared intellectual superior. He was trying to communicate with other Christians.
For someone that talks so much, the reading comprehension seems quite low.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on May 06, 2014, 04:33:30 PM
Quote from: RagingDragon on May 06, 2014, 04:00:59 PM
Wow, where's the tolerance?
Seriously you guys kind of look like bigots. I'm an athiest, and quite an asshole, but just leave the f**kers alone.
Not trying to be a whiteknight fag, just being a whiteknight fag I guess.
Not a lack of tolerance, just saying the only thing that keeps threads going is discussion and if there's no discussion because everyone agrees then the thread dies, if this is always going to happen there's no point in the thread in the first place.
I actually agree, but if someone wants to start a thread with no longevity, that's their prerogative :P It's silly to me as well, but Chronicle wanted a discussion among believers, and the mods have overridden that to allow all members, so I'd like to hear his/her thoughts on that.
Besides, if tempers fly, it'll get diverted to my thread xD
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 06, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on May 06, 2014, 12:42:10 PM
This is a thread for believers. Why post here if your not? Everyone has a right to their own beliefs and ridiculing someone for what they believe in doesn't make them look bad.
I am a believer, and my faith keeps a peace in my heart that is difficult to explain but it keeps me happy and content. It's faith that carried me through being a young widow years ago, that brought this wonderful kid from another country into my life, and no amount of ridicule or mean spirited jokes is going to change my views. Sorry :)
Question for ya Alice. I've been told the Bible is very contradictory to itself, in certain areas. How does one reconcile this as you read it?
One explanation is that we try to interpret scripture from our current world view, and not as a record from different periods of time from writers who were not in collaboration with one another. There are many passages inside as a reference for encouragement and peace.
I always assumed that Christianity was a coping mechanism.
That could be said for any religion.
Quote from: Chronicle on May 06, 2014, 12:20:50 AM
Whether your Christian, Catholic, Buddhist, Jewish, Islamic etc. It doesn't matter. I'd like to hear from Believers
not trolls or non-believers. Whats your opinion on your faith opposed to other religions who also have a highpower within their beliefs?
How do you think God should be worshiped or your higherpower?
why is this thread called christianity if it's for all believers lol wat
You only need one hand?
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on May 06, 2014, 08:10:06 PM
Quote from: Chronicle on May 06, 2014, 12:20:50 AM
Whether your Christian, Catholic, Buddhist, Jewish, Islamic etc. It doesn't matter. I'd like to hear from Believers
not trolls or non-believers. Whats your opinion on your faith opposed to other religions who also have a highpower within their beliefs?
How do you think God should be worshiped or your higherpower?
why is this thread called christianity if it's for all believers lol wat
:laugh:
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:04:37 AM
It's not so black and white, man. There are many Christians that believe that the Bible was written by man, and therefore, many things could have been misinterpreted.
The Bible
is written by man... or men, if you will. That's a fact.
Do some fundamentalist Christians believe the book was written by God himself and sent to us humans on a descending cloud or something...? :D
Quote from: Eva on May 06, 2014, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 05, 2014, 03:04:37 AM
It's not so black and white, man. There are many Christians that believe that the Bible was written by man, and therefore, many things could have been misinterpreted.
The Bible is written by man... or men, if you will. That's a fact.
Do some fundamentalist Christians believe the book was written by God himself and sent to us humans on a descending cloud or something...? :D
It's believed that the Bible is divinely inspired.
I think the most common belief (aside from being written by men) is that the contents were relayed to human writers by God directly, which allows them to maintain that it is the holy word from the big man himself, but also allows them to reconcile anything that sounds wrong as human error.
Quote from: Sabby on May 06, 2014, 08:42:18 PM
I think the most common belief (aside from being written by men) is that the contents were relayed to human writers by God directly, which allows them to maintain that it is the holy word from the big man himself, but also allows them to reconcile anything that sounds wrong as human error.
Yup. :laugh:
Well, historically speaking, the collection of material that ended up as the book we call the Bible, was the result of Constantine The Great in need of a single piece of work, to unite all the various nations and cultures within the Roman Empire under one belief system and when these events transpired, Christianity was the 'new black'.
The Bible is essentially a commissioned piece of work, a huge fabric of various belief systems and anecdotes as well as a lot of material left out for political reasons. Divinely inspired or not... ;)
Exactly as God planned.
Here's a fun article(s) on the subject:
http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/bible/historical-construction/ (http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/bible/historical-construction/)
Quote from: Eva on May 06, 2014, 08:51:39 PM
Well, historically speaking, the collection of material that ended up as the book we call the Bible, was the result of Constantine The Great in need of a single piece of work, to unite all the various nations and cultures within the Roman Empire under one belief system and when these events transpired, Christianity was the 'new black'.
The Bible is essentially a commissioned piece of work, a huge fabric of various belief systems and anecdotes as well as a lot of material left out for political reasons. Divinely inspired or not... ;)
If he's so great why isn't there cartoons based off of him
huh
HUH
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on May 06, 2014, 08:55:33 PM
Quote from: Eva on May 06, 2014, 08:51:39 PM
Well, historically speaking, the collection of material that ended up as the book we call the Bible, was the result of Constantine The Great in need of a single piece of work, to unite all the various nations and cultures within the Roman Empire under one belief system and when these events transpired, Christianity was the 'new black'.
The Bible is essentially a commissioned piece of work, a huge fabric of various belief systems and anecdotes as well as a lot of material left out for political reasons. Divinely inspired or not... ;)
If he's so great why isn't there cartoons based off of him
huh
HUH
the f**k u say
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.gyazo.com%2F19c9cfd842961d3de081a8519011f46d.png&hash=77f49c13c613467cd6ee2dfde15ccd5fa8b4108c)
maaaaan f**k veggie tales
ight thats it
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.gyazo.com%2F4ef2b10439d3163240c2b56aee0ce0e2.png&hash=445499a16f4333bd6816b809d1b29e7cc46fa547)
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 06, 2014, 09:01:24 PM
ight thats it
http://i.gyazo.com/4ef2b10439d3163240c2b56aee0ce0e2.png
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2Fed%2Fed4e6de53254bcf651a61fb8e397d078e44f9b0188422e5512da97e0e54c28de.jpg&hash=894853ab21b459127c52372ceaec9eda7861de85)
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on May 06, 2014, 09:05:45 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 06, 2014, 09:01:24 PM
ight thats it
http://i.gyazo.com/4ef2b10439d3163240c2b56aee0ce0e2.png
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2Fed%2Fed4e6de53254bcf651a61fb8e397d078e44f9b0188422e5512da97e0e54c28de.jpg&hash=894853ab21b459127c52372ceaec9eda7861de85)
Death Note spoilers
Spoiler
Except he wasn't
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 06, 2014, 04:16:14 PMI've been told the Bible is very contradictory to itself, in certain areas. How does one reconcile this as you read it?
Short answer: choose the parts that benefit you better.
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on May 06, 2014, 06:11:01 PMOne explanation is that we try to interpret scripture from our current world view, and not as a record from different periods of time from writers who were not in collaboration with one another.
So, basing your current world view on the world view from the Bronze Age instead of adapting to a current one?
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on May 06, 2014, 06:11:01 PMThere are many passages inside as a reference for encouragement and peace.
As there are for violence and intolerance. Encouragement and peace can come from other places if not from within.
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 06, 2014, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on May 06, 2014, 09:05:45 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 06, 2014, 09:01:24 PM
ight thats it
http://i.gyazo.com/4ef2b10439d3163240c2b56aee0ce0e2.png
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2Fed%2Fed4e6de53254bcf651a61fb8e397d078e44f9b0188422e5512da97e0e54c28de.jpg&hash=894853ab21b459127c52372ceaec9eda7861de85)
Death Note spoilers
Spoiler
Except he wasn't
srry 4 spoiling an anime thats been over since 2007
c:
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/10255300_10152420266485420_7823384294302594776_n.png)
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 06, 2014, 10:21:38 PM
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/10255300_10152420266485420_7823384294302594776_n.png
So, per the pic, we're not supposed to do any of those things? But I still insist on playing nice with the others...
You're not supposed to judge others and love them? Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 06, 2014, 10:27:51 PM
You're not supposed to judge others and love them? Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
I'd rather love them and not judge them, but they make it difficult.
Quote from: Vickers on May 06, 2014, 08:30:00 PM
You only need one hand?
I only play with the tip so yeah. ???
HAHAHAHAHAHA damn
How so? If you feel it's difficult, then ignore them and move on. It's not complicated.
*Gestures the biting of palms* What's this?
Jesus biting his nails.
What's Jesus' least favourite car?
The Chevy Impale-a.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/1656235_1454509114778088_794671825_n.jpg)
Judging people doesn't have to be aggressive or in your face. I know it's typically a negative word, but people tend to judge things internally. It's possible to do that and still be civil.
Quote from: maledoro on May 06, 2014, 10:29:59 PM
I'd rather love them and not judge them, but they make it difficult.
I agree. I constantly debate with my Christian family and close friends, and it's a common topic.
It's just built-in to the religion to spread it and be vocal about it, and that eventually interjects with everyday society (which I don't think real spirituality is meant to do.)
Trying to reconcile spiritual beliefs with a day-to-day, cultural life is a super bitch. The morality issue is all wrapped up in there as well. Usually I end up telling my family that they like Christianity because they are good people regardless, and it helps them to express that in whatever way.
That usually gets their head kind of spinning, lol, when I constantly rant to them about how
they're good and decent and moral, and just choose a religion to justify it or give it some higher authority.
I think judging shouldn't be the problem, it's more about poorly judging. Like Raging and Maledoro said, sometimes it's hard not to judge someone, and not by any of your own inclination.
Actually it's not the judging, it's the hate and lies that really hurt people.
Omg.
If that's your God - you're welcome to him.
That Pic is hilarious, and frightening that some people would believe it.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Fd7fb5d0481ba44124a4d08c07d428419%2Ftumblr_n03zoyxhZY1qhhxd4o1_500.gif&hash=bc5418133483cac59037e1e3fb6933e62d409512)
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Dat Rust
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 06, 2014, 11:41:18 PMHow so? If you feel it's difficult, then ignore them and move on. It's not complicated.
But if I move on, that just makes it more difficult.
;)
Quote from: Sabby on May 07, 2014, 01:05:24 AMJudging people doesn't have to be aggressive or in your face. I know it's typically a negative word, but people tend to judge things internally. It's possible to do that and still be civil.
Unless you're one of those whose faith is so weak that they have to cry that they're offended and that they're being persecuted.
Quote from: Rong on May 07, 2014, 11:22:07 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Fd7fb5d0481ba44124a4d08c07d428419%2Ftumblr_n03zoyxhZY1qhhxd4o1_500.gif&hash=bc5418133483cac59037e1e3fb6933e62d409512)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F37.media.tumblr.com%2Fdbe2243cbf653f12f8a32868d0f97496%2Ftumblr_n03zoyxhZY1qhhxd4o2_500.gif&hash=afdc66a9da4c4d8986fe651cf62c42322d58061e)
Dat Rust
Precisely why I reject religion. I do the right thing because it's the right thing, not because I expect to be rewarded for it.
Haha that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of why right and wrong exist in the first place.
Quote from: maledoro on May 07, 2014, 01:07:20 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 06, 2014, 11:41:18 PMHow so? If you feel it's difficult, then ignore them and move on. It's not complicated.
But if I move on, that just makes it more difficult.
;)
Makes what more difficult?
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 07, 2014, 01:08:38 PMPrecisely why I reject religion. I do the right thing because it's the right thing, not because I expect to be rewarded for it.
That's one of many reasons I reject religion and spirituality.
Quote from: BANE on May 07, 2014, 01:10:30 PM
Haha that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of why right and wrong exist in the first place.
How so?
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 07, 2014, 01:10:42 PMMakes what more difficult?
If you move on away from someone, it makes it more difficult to not ignore or judge them and then it's not nearly as fun.
;D
I don't get to upset about religions and people who follow them to be honest, I'm atheist.
"But a mans gotta have a code"
If half the tards that practice said religions didn't have it as a guide, who know what they'd do, they could end up part of some radical men's rights movement :P
Quote from: Rong on May 07, 2014, 01:16:25 PM
I don't get to upset about religions and people who follow them to be honest, I'm atheist.
"But a mans gotta have a code"
I don't get upset over people following religion, I just wonder why they have to make shit up to justify their beliefs when it's easier to just accept reality and work with it. What upsets me is the collateral stuff that goes with those people who follow religion.
Quote from: Rong on May 07, 2014, 01:16:25 PMIf half the tards that practice said religions didn't have it as a guide, who know what they'd do, they could end up part of some radical men's rights movement :P
Every time I hear about "men's rights", I get visions of all the other majority groups that demand attention even though they are the default.
Quote from: maledoro on May 06, 2014, 09:55:53 PM
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on May 06, 2014, 06:11:01 PMOne explanation is that we try to interpret scripture from our current world view, and not as a record from different periods of time from writers who were not in collaboration with one another.
So, basing your current world view on the world view from the Bronze Age instead of adapting to a current one?
Not at all.
Quote from: maledoro on May 06, 2014, 09:55:53 PM
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on May 06, 2014, 06:11:01 PMThere are many passages inside as a reference for encouragement and peace.
As there are for violence and intolerance. Encouragement and peace can come from other places if not from within.
What we do and how we live is no one's business but the higher power we answer to. If you are looking to a person for direction(someone who judges others for example), then you miss the big picture. No matter what we do, no matter what we are going through, there is a God who loves you and it is that simple :)
Quote from: maledoro on May 07, 2014, 01:14:54 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 07, 2014, 01:10:42 PMMakes what more difficult?
If you move on away from someone, it makes it more difficult to not ignore or judge them and then it's not nearly as fun.
;D
How hollow.
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on May 07, 2014, 01:43:16 PM
Quote from: maledoro on May 06, 2014, 09:55:53 PM
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on May 06, 2014, 06:11:01 PMOne explanation is that we try to interpret scripture from our current world view, and not as a record from different periods of time from writers who were not in collaboration with one another.
So, basing your current world view on the world view from the Bronze Age instead of adapting to a current one?
Not at all.
You are aware that scripture was written back in the Bronze Age and with the world view of that time?
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on May 07, 2014, 01:43:16 PMQuote from: maledoro on May 06, 2014, 09:55:53 PM
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on May 06, 2014, 06:11:01 PMThere are many passages inside as a reference for encouragement and peace.
As there are for violence and intolerance. Encouragement and peace can come from other places if not from within.
What we do and how we live is no one's business but the higher power we answer to.
Then those people have no problem in keeping religion away from those who do not share their beliefs.
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on May 07, 2014, 01:43:16 PMIf you are looking to a person for direction(someone who judges others for example), then you miss the big picture. No matter what we do, no matter what we are going through, there is a God who loves you and it is that simple :)
Or, that you believe. Not to mention that same god may hate you.
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 07, 2014, 01:47:35 PM
Quote from: maledoro on May 07, 2014, 01:14:54 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 07, 2014, 01:10:42 PMMakes what more difficult?
If you move on away from someone, it makes it more difficult to not ignore or judge them and then it's not nearly as fun.
;D
How hollow.
Oh, lighten up.
I thought this was a thread for Beliebers...
My mistake
Quote from: Novak 1334 on May 07, 2014, 02:14:31 PM
I thought this was a thread for Beliebers...
My mistake
Nope. Bleevers.
Speaking from experience religion is a subject best kept for talking about when your heavily intoxicated or on your way to being intoxicated.
I'm a Catholic, I've never seen much reason to question much about my religion or any religion since I took the Religion course at my college. That being said I've never read the bible and I don't think I'll ever read the bible.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on May 07, 2014, 04:41:53 PM
Speaking from experience religion is a subject best kept for talking about when your heavily intoxicated or on your way to being intoxicated.
I'm a Catholic, I've never seen much reason to question much about my religion or any religion since I took the Religion course at my college. That being said I've never read the bible and I don't think I'll ever read the bible.
Really? You must be dull or a manner of things if you never even question your beliefs beyond what you're told.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on May 07, 2014, 04:41:53 PMSpeaking from experience religion is a subject best kept for talking about when your heavily intoxicated or on your way to being intoxicated.
What could possibly go wrong when a "discussion" gets soaked in alcohol?
Quote from: JokersWarPig on May 07, 2014, 04:41:53 PMI've never seen much reason to question much about my religion or any religion since I took the Religion course at my college.
Ladies and gentlemen, if you've been waiting to play the Sheep Card, do so now. Nobody has the right to criticize your doing so after that.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on May 07, 2014, 04:41:53 PMThat being said I've never read the bible and I don't think I'll ever read the bible.
It may turn you into a nonbeliever.
I guess I worded that wrong. I've never felt a need to question the idea that there is a higher power, weather or not its my specific understanding of this higher power is yet to be determined obviously. Don't get me wrong, I've been questioned by my best friend and my girlfriend about my religion and why even though I don't go to church or have read the bible then how do I have faith, I just do. The two friends I hang out with most are more "men of science" than anything else, so they'll dig into me every couple of months about and I always give them the same answer; Things seem a bit to complicated to me to be a random occurrence of events or luck. I'm sorry if that makes me a sheep or anything like that but thats what I choose to believe. Religion is a choice after all and I chose to stick with mine, with some of my on views of course.
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1549372_797311400280348_620608710277875796_n.jpg)
Quote from: JokersWarPig on May 07, 2014, 05:18:10 PM
I guess I worded that wrong. I've never felt a need to question the idea that there is a higher power, weather or not its my specific understanding of this higher power is yet to be determined obviously. Don't get me wrong, I've been questioned by my best friend and my girlfriend about my religion and why even though I don't go to church or have read the bible then how do I have faith, I just do. The two friends I hang out with most are more "men of science" than anything else, so they'll dig into me every couple of months about and I always give them the same answer; Things seem a bit to complicated to me to be a random occurrence of events or luck. I'm sorry if that makes me a sheep or anything like that but thats what I choose to believe. Religion is a choice after all and I chose to stick with mine, with some of my on views of course.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F02282%2Fmichael_2282361b.jpg&hash=aa89acce232d23fb6c690462aeb7cf1acb3e22a9)
Shaw?
Its cool, I don't pray either. I'm probably the worlds worst "practicing" catholic.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on May 07, 2014, 05:25:02 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on May 07, 2014, 05:18:10 PM
I guess I worded that wrong. I've never felt a need to question the idea that there is a higher power, weather or not its my specific understanding of this higher power is yet to be determined obviously. Don't get me wrong, I've been questioned by my best friend and my girlfriend about my religion and why even though I don't go to church or have read the bible then how do I have faith, I just do. The two friends I hang out with most are more "men of science" than anything else, so they'll dig into me every couple of months about and I always give them the same answer; Things seem a bit to complicated to me to be a random occurrence of events or luck. I'm sorry if that makes me a sheep or anything like that but thats what I choose to believe. Religion is a choice after all and I chose to stick with mine, with some of my on views of course.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F02282%2Fmichael_2282361b.jpg&hash=aa89acce232d23fb6c690462aeb7cf1acb3e22a9)
Shaw?
Don't ever make that comparison again.
Lighten up.
Quote from: BANE on May 07, 2014, 01:10:30 PM
Haha that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of why right and wrong exist in the first place.
Enlighten him, I'm interested in your perspective.
Quote from: maledoro on May 07, 2014, 01:40:14 PM
Quote from: Rong on May 07, 2014, 01:16:25 PM
I don't get to upset about religions and people who follow them to be honest, I'm atheist.
"But a mans gotta have a code"
I don't get upset over people following religion, I just wonder why they have to make shit up to justify their beliefs when it's easier to just accept reality and work with it. What upsets me is the collateral stuff that goes with those people who follow religion.
Quote from: Rong on May 07, 2014, 01:16:25 PMIf half the tards that practice said religions didn't have it as a guide, who know what they'd do, they could end up part of some radical men's rights movement :P
Every time I hear about "men's rights", I get visions of all the other majority groups that demand attention even though they are the default.
Can't argue with any of that, people do horrible things in the name of religion.
In short:
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/1511456_10203773238877483_543556406926499606_n.jpg)
Quote from: Rong on May 07, 2014, 01:16:25 PM
I don't get to upset about religions and people who follow them to be honest, I'm atheist.
"But a mans gotta have a code"
If half the tards that practice said religions didn't have it as a guide, who know what they'd do, they could end up part of some radical men's rights movement :P
Most religions are a men's right institution. Unless I missed something. :o
I wonder if people would react with Lighten up in the Atheist thread :o
Enlighten up.
Or we could lighten up the non-believers with gasoline and rubber tires. >:(
That's just what they'd be expecting...
To repair and refuel their vehicles so they can go to church. ???
Quote from: SM on May 08, 2014, 01:22:12 AM
That's just what they'd be expecting...
:laugh:
My favorite Jebus
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/e9154728e1aebc9583ac15d5d00b6bfa/tumblr_inline_n2z5s0vz5V1rw7zjf.jpg)
That moment when he realises his feet are still nailed in...
He's gonna do them leg extensions.
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 08, 2014, 01:12:21 AM
Or we could lighten up the non-believers with gasoline and rubber tires. >:(
Don't fuel the persecution complex.
Don't come at me bro.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.frontpagemag.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F09%2Fjihadist.jpg&hash=f0deb680897df2ff30ddfec27616b5f62e91083f)
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 07, 2014, 01:08:38 PM
Quote from: Rong on May 07, 2014, 11:22:07 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Fd7fb5d0481ba44124a4d08c07d428419%2Ftumblr_n03zoyxhZY1qhhxd4o1_500.gif&hash=bc5418133483cac59037e1e3fb6933e62d409512)
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Dat Rust
Precisely why I reject religion. I do the right thing because it's the right thing, not because I expect to be rewarded for it.
I certainly agree.
But the question is, what is right or wrong?
Is morality objective?
There is no right or wrong.
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 08, 2014, 04:55:04 AM
There is no right or wrong.
So I can murder you and steal your things.
Gotcha.
You will try
Ohhh,
I get it now you're not actually adding anything to the discussion.
Again, gotcha.
Do I know you? :laugh:
f**k off. :laugh:
Did Cal just use an Anakin Skywalker quote?
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 08, 2014, 05:10:32 AM
Did Cal just use an Anakin Skywalker quote?
Indeed.
Shit just got real Stephen.
well we all know how it ended up with Anakin after saying that ;D
Morality, in my humble opinion, is a subjective thing, but that doesn't mean I am good because I say I am good, or that is bad because I say it is bad. See, we can have different ideas of what makes right and wrong, but the things we form our morality on aren't so nebulous.
Suffering is a thing. Happiness is a thing. Culture is a thing. Living as a person in a system that requires masses of people to coexist in order for society to function. That is definitely a thing. All of these things are what we base our morality on.
So yeah, morality is a subjective thing, but so is humor. You can make a crappy joke just like you can make crappy morality.
Quote from: Sabby on May 08, 2014, 06:23:14 AM
Morality, in my humble opinion, is a subjective thing, but that doesn't mean I am good because I say I am good, or that is bad because I say it is bad. See, we can have different ideas of what makes right and wrong, but the things we form our morality on aren't so nebulous.
Suffering is a thing. Happiness is a thing. Culture is a thing. Living as a person in a system that requires masses of people to coexist in order for society to function. That is definitely a thing. All of these things are what we base our morality on.
So yeah, morality is a subjective thing, but so is humor. You can make a crappy joke just like you can make crappy morality.
So murder may or may not be wrong depending on one's world views?
Define murder. It has a different meaning to simply killing, and we justify killing all the time, sometimes poorly, sometimes well. What's the difference between a thug on the street deciding to kill a random for no reason and a police officer deciding to kill an armed perpetrator?
They are both removing a life, just the way they rationalize it isn't equal.
Quote from: Sabby on May 08, 2014, 06:36:30 AM
Define murder. It has a different meaning to simply killing, and we justify killing all the time, sometimes poorly, sometimes well. What's the difference between a thug on the street deciding to kill a random for no reason and a police officer deciding to kill an armed perpetrator?
They are both removing a life, just the way they rationalize it isn't equal.
That's why I said murder and not kill.
And your question about the difference between a thug and a police officer is actually my question to you.
What is the difference between someone who believes murder is ok, and someone who doesn't.
Quote from: stephen on May 08, 2014, 07:08:57 AM
Quote from: Sabby on May 08, 2014, 06:36:30 AM
Define murder. It has a different meaning to simply killing, and we justify killing all the time, sometimes poorly, sometimes well. What's the difference between a thug on the street deciding to kill a random for no reason and a police officer deciding to kill an armed perpetrator?
They are both removing a life, just the way they rationalize it isn't equal.
What is the difference between someone who believes murder is ok, and someone who doesn't.
One believes it's okay, one doesn't?
Morality.
Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour.
"I enjoy murdering people" is not a statement regarding the persons morality. They know it's bad, but don't care.
"I murder because it's good" is a statement regarding the persons morality.
I murder 'cause I'm always hungry.
I wonder if it's hot underneath that mask.
There's never a right part to murder in my view. Taking away the life of another human being is not a right we have as human beings.
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 08, 2014, 11:43:39 AM
There's never a right part to murder in my view. Taking away the life of another human being is not a right we have as human beings.
Actually it is. I mean there is nothing stopping someone from killing another aside from common decency and the laws ability to make it a punishable offense.
It may be justifiable in that moment, but that doesn't make it right. If murdering people was a right we had, even under appropriate circumstances, you wouldn't need to justify your actions in a court of law.
Damn, I'm pretty sure I'm missing some context here. :P However all rights are defined under the law. Usually through some sort or man made(adopted) protection, such as a constitution. We like to believe some of them are inalienable but that's just not true. It's the difference between ethics and morals for example. Aside from these rules we operate society under; human beings still retain their free will, which includes the free will to commit murder.
That's how I see it. I agree it's not right to take the life of someone but that opinion must be shared, which I think it is by most of us. Thankfully. Still the written law is a man made construct that is only enacted after someone uses their free will in violation of these rules... well at least until Minority Report becomes fact and renders my opinion utterly obsolete.
Still if I get this right, you're just debating the difference in definition of murdering and killing? Both are homicide in relation to human beings. Is driving while texting and killing a person any better than shooting a punk in the face?
If we look at what we normally consider crimes such as murder and theft is there a common denominator between them that we can point to and say "that's why it is wrong" thus making morality objective?
Yea I think we do but then again it is left entirely up to personal ideology. Someone who steals food because they are starving shouldn't be immediately comparable to someone stealing a tv. However some say stealing is stealing.
Murder is tricky. Must it be premeditated? Why is murdering a cop treated so differently than that of a murdered civilian in a non premeditated situation? It's ok to accidentally kill someone through ones own reckless action but not if you had a cell phone in hand.
When is it ok to kill is a tough question. Does someones worth play into the opinion?
What if we murder people because we are starving? Fuh, fuh, fuh, fuh, fuh...
;)
Quote from: Sabby on May 08, 2014, 03:32:17 AMDon't fuel the persecution complex.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/1507759_555792317871556_5620031705330071393_n.jpg)
Quote from: maledoro on May 08, 2014, 12:55:38 PM
What if we murder people because we are starving? Fuh, fuh, fuh, fuh, fuh...
;)
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 08, 2014, 07:57:23 AM
I murder 'cause I'm always hungry.
I already covered that one and it is A-Ok-Delicious as long as you eat the entire person. Using the guys nose as a tooth brush holder is acceptable though.... haha j/k
What about the infringement of rights? My right to life or my right to my property? Could that not be the common denominator that we can look at to objectively say an action is right or wrong?
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 08, 2014, 12:53:41 PM
Yea I think we do but then again it is left entirely up to personal ideology. Someone who steals food because they are starving shouldn't be immediately comparable to someone stealing a tv. However some say stealing is stealing.
Murder is tricky. Must it be premeditated? Why is murdering a cop treated so differently than that of a murdered civilian in a non premeditated situation? It's ok to accidentally kill someone through ones own reckless action but not if you had a cell phone in hand.
When is it ok to kill is a tough question. Does someones worth play into the opinion?
Stealing
is stealing, but I would punish someone who steals to survive less harshly than someone who steals just because it's fun.
In the case of murder, a cop killing someone is treated differently than a civilian because the cop is trained in knowing when and when not to use a firearm. A civilian, typically speaking, doesn't possess that level of discretion and knowledge.
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 08, 2014, 01:51:12 PM
In the case of murder, a cop killing someone is treated differently than a civilian because the cop is trained in knowing when and when not to use a firearm. A civilian, typically speaking, doesn't possess that level of discretion and knowledge.
i think he ment that when you kill a cop it is treated diffrently than when you kill a civilian
Empathy is the key IMO.
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 08, 2014, 01:57:25 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 08, 2014, 01:51:12 PM
In the case of murder, a cop killing someone is treated differently than a civilian because the cop is trained in knowing when and when not to use a firearm. A civilian, typically speaking, doesn't possess that level of discretion and knowledge.
i think he ment that when you kill a cop it is treated diffrently than when you kill a civilian
Ah. In that case, I don't think it should be. I don't see what makes a cop's life any more valuable than the guy next to him, but that's just me.
Has there been any atheist serial killers or terrorists?
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 08, 2014, 03:17:44 PM
Has there been any atheist serial killers or terrorists?
Why even ask something that f**king dumb?
http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/ (http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/)
I'm not saying there aren't people who kill with atheism as a motivation but I pretty much agree with this comment on that list:
"They were also all humans. And they all ate food. And they all read books at some point or another. What I'm getting at is, these people don't give atheism a bad name, they didn't do ANY of this stuff in the "name of atheism." You're making a false connection for no reason. This article is disgusting."
He didn't ask for people that did anything in the name of atheists. How can you take action in the name of believing in nothing?
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 08, 2014, 03:54:07 PM
He didn't ask for people that did anything in the name of atheists. How can you take action in the name of believing in nothing?
well there can be a psychopathic killer who kills just believers
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 08, 2014, 03:58:16 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 08, 2014, 03:54:07 PM
He didn't ask for people that did anything in the name of atheists. How can you take action in the name of believing in nothing?
well there can be a psychopathic killer who kills just believers
I suppose, but what would that accomplish? Usually when someone commits terrorism or murder in the name of religion it's either to help themselves or to be some sort of punishment.
And muslims.
Quote from: stephen on May 08, 2014, 01:17:23 PM
What about the infringement of rights? My right to life or my right to my property? Could that not be the common denominator that we can look at to objectively say an action is right or wrong?
Haha I love this post. It is a perfect summation of the optimistic fantasy land we've built for ourselves as a species.
Quote from: BANE on May 08, 2014, 04:13:18 PM
Quote from: stephen on May 08, 2014, 01:17:23 PM
What about the infringement of rights? My right to life or my right to my property? Could that not be the common denominator that we can look at to objectively say an action is right or wrong?
Haha I love this post. It is a perfect summation of the optimistic fantasy land we've built for ourselves as a species.
Yea it is. I mean it is an assumption that we all learn and grow up with it but is only as good as the paper it was written on.
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 08, 2014, 03:16:54 PM
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 08, 2014, 01:57:25 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 08, 2014, 01:51:12 PM
In the case of murder, a cop killing someone is treated differently than a civilian because the cop is trained in knowing when and when not to use a firearm. A civilian, typically speaking, doesn't possess that level of discretion and knowledge.
i think he ment that when you kill a cop it is treated diffrently than when you kill a civilian
Ah. In that case, I don't think it should be. I don't see what makes a cop's life any more valuable than the guy next to him, but that's just me.
Yea that's what I meant, however both ideas are technically the same. Killing cops is punished more harshly because they are law enforcement, if that requires a harsher punishment is debatable. However the way most municipalities handle it is by reducing the social statues of civilians. Such as here, murdering a Honolulu cop is 1st degree murder but to get the same charge on an everyday person you have to kill 2. Otherwise it is 2nd degree murder. So imo that basically means cops are worth twice as much on the humanity scale.
Quote from: stephen on May 08, 2014, 01:17:23 PM
What about the infringement of rights? My right to life or my right to my property? Could that not be the common denominator that we can look at to objectively say an action is right or wrong?
QuoteHaha I love this post. It is a perfect summation of the optimistic fantasy land we've built for ourselves as a species.
How so?
QuoteYea it is. I mean it is an assumption that we all learn and grow up with it but is only as good as the paper it was written on.
I don't believe so. I happen to believe murder is wrong. Regardless of who has done it and what upbringing they may have had or what culture they come from. It is also irrelevant if the person believes that the murder they committed was ok.
It is no less a murder, and the person murdered is no less dead.
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 08, 2014, 03:16:54 PM
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 08, 2014, 01:57:25 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 08, 2014, 01:51:12 PM
In the case of murder, a cop killing someone is treated differently than a civilian because the cop is trained in knowing when and when not to use a firearm. A civilian, typically speaking, doesn't possess that level of discretion and knowledge.
i think he ment that when you kill a cop it is treated diffrently than when you kill a civilian
Ah. In that case, I don't think it should be. I don't see what makes a cop's life any more valuable than the guy next to him, but that's just me.
We live in a social hierarchy. Different values are assigned to different positions. A police officer is a voluntary position for someone who uphold our laws and the general peace, something that we enjoy as a community. Asking why a cop is seen as more important then a random citizen is like asking why we prefer order to chaos.
Not a very good comparison.
Quote from: stephen on May 08, 2014, 10:50:05 PM
Quote from: stephen on May 08, 2014, 01:17:23 PM
What about the infringement of rights? My right to life or my right to my property? Could that not be the common denominator that we can look at to objectively say an action is right or wrong?
QuoteHaha I love this post. It is a perfect summation of the optimistic fantasy land we've built for ourselves as a species.
How so?
QuoteYea it is. I mean it is an assumption that we all learn and grow up with it but is only as good as the paper it was written on.
I don't believe so. I happen to believe murder is wrong. Regardless of who has done it and what upbringing they may have had or what culture they come from. It is also irrelevant if the person believes that the murder they committed was ok.
It is no less a murder, and the person murdered is no less dead.
There is a man who has raped several children over the course of 20 years. One of those children is a part of your family. The justice system has failed to put this man away, and it is becoming clear that he will be allowed to continue, thanks to his connections and general corruption of the system. You come across this man offering to help a little girl find her mother, and he tells you to leave.
You attack him and you kill him.
How is this murder comparable to a thug wanting to kill a random for the thrill of it? No morality is purely black and white. Saying all murder is wrong is as foolish as saying all murder is right.
Quote from: BANE on May 09, 2014, 12:16:19 AM
Not a very good comparison.
How so?
Quote from: stephen on May 08, 2014, 10:50:05 PM
Quote from: stephen on May 08, 2014, 01:17:23 PM
What about the infringement of rights? My right to life or my right to my property? Could that not be the common denominator that we can look at to objectively say an action is right or wrong?
QuoteHaha I love this post. It is a perfect summation of the optimistic fantasy land we've built for ourselves as a species.
How so?
QuoteYea it is. I mean it is an assumption that we all learn and grow up with it but is only as good as the paper it was written on.
I don't believe so. I happen to believe murder is wrong. Regardless of who has done it and what upbringing they may have had or what culture they come from. It is also irrelevant if the person believes that the murder they committed was ok.
It is no less a murder, and the person murdered is no less dead.
Murder is wrong. Not disagreeing, just saying that those rights you believe you are entitled are really imaginary. There is nothing stopping someone from taking your life if they want too. For right or wrong. It's just frowned upon by the rules that govern society. This is of course why it is so important to protect our self giving rights and freedoms.
Then there is the judgement of the action committed. Was it justified? Is murder really always a bad thing? If you went back in time before Hitler came to power, should you kill him? Actually could you even do it? As in the people around him would probably stop you and of course those were the same people that allowed him to do what today we would consider evil. Yet back then that was the "rights" in play at the time.
Quote from: shabby
We live in a social hierarchy. Different values are assigned to different positions. A police officer is a voluntary position for someone who uphold our laws and the general peace, something that we enjoy as a community. Asking why a cop is seen as more important then a random citizen is like asking why we prefer order to chaos.
I understand the idea that cops are authoritative figures but still, murder is murder in my humble opinion. Social hierarchy is bullshit. :P
Quote from: Sabby on May 09, 2014, 12:17:01 AM
Quote from: BANE on May 09, 2014, 12:16:19 AM
Not a very good comparison.
How so?
You've gone too extreme.
I mean I get the point you're making, I just don't think the comparison is good.
I'm not going to play the hypothetical game sorry.
There's so many issues with your hypothetical situation that I could go on and on about that make answering it impossible.
All I can say is that it comes back to the definition of murder. If an act of killing is defined as murder, then it is wrong.
Quote from: stephen on May 09, 2014, 12:23:22 AM
I'm not going to play the hypothetical game sorry.
There's so many issues with your hypothetical situation that I could go on and on about that make answering it impossible.
All I can say is that it comes back to the definition of murder. If an act of killing is defined as murder, then it is wrong.
Cool.
But if some dad shoots the local drug lord and I'm on the jury... I'd probably let him go free based on my free will. Which I guess would make me a hypocrite as I just typed "social hierarchy is bullshit". :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 09, 2014, 12:20:29 AM
Murder is wrong. Not disagreeing,
There we have it - but why?
Quotejust saying that those rights you believe you are entitled are really imaginary. There is nothing stopping someone from taking your life if they want too. For right or wrong. It's just frowned upon by the rules that govern society. This is of course why it is so important to protect our self giving rights and freedoms.
so are you saying that there are no such things as "rights"? and that only society (read mob) can say what is right or wrong?
QuoteThen there is the judgement of the action committed. Was it justified? Is murder really always a bad thing? If you went back in time before Hitler came to power, should you kill him? Actually could you even do it? As in the people around him would probably stop you and of course those were the same people that allowed him to do what today we would consider evil. Yet back then that was the "rights" in play at the time.
again a hypothetical. We can't go back in time and we can't know what the future actions of an individual is going to be.
again, it comes back to the definition of murder. Killing is not murder.
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 09, 2014, 12:24:56 AM
Quote from: stephen on May 09, 2014, 12:23:22 AM
I'm not going to play the hypothetical game sorry.
There's so many issues with your hypothetical situation that I could go on and on about that make answering it impossible.
All I can say is that it comes back to the definition of murder. If an act of killing is defined as murder, then it is wrong.
Cool.
But if some dad shoots the local drug lord and I'm on the jury... I'd probably let him go free based on my free will. Which I guess would make me a hypocrite as I just typed "social hierarchy is bullshit". :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Again it would depend on the facts of each particular case and whether or not you can define the act as murder. If the dad shot him in guinuine self defense, then I'd be hard pressed to define the act as murder.
This is why I don't play hypotheticals. Too many questions are raised, and hypotheticals tend to put people in situations that they would never be in like "pretend you can't swim..." etc.
Quote from: stephen on May 09, 2014, 12:29:17 AM
Quotejust saying that those rights you believe you are entitled are really imaginary. There is nothing stopping someone from taking your life if they want too. For right or wrong. It's just frowned upon by the rules that govern society. This is of course why it is so important to protect our self giving rights and freedoms.
so are you saying that there are no such things as "rights"? and that only society (read mob) can say what is right or wrong?
Yes.
Quote from: BANE on May 09, 2014, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: stephen on May 09, 2014, 12:29:17 AM
Quotejust saying that those rights you believe you are entitled are really imaginary. There is nothing stopping someone from taking your life if they want too. For right or wrong. It's just frowned upon by the rules that govern society. This is of course why it is so important to protect our self giving rights and freedoms.
so are you saying that there are no such things as "rights"? and that only society (read mob) can say what is right or wrong?
Yes.
In that case - no thanks.
Can't escape it my friend
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn3.whatculture.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2Fhouse-gif.gif&hash=c26e0a9b3c89bc08462437463f3e38736a84baa0)
Man at any moment that right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness can be revoked. Which is why it is so important to never merely assumed that it will always be there.
Also I do not believe in absolute. Murder is wrong but it is not absolutely wrong. I have no problem murdering murders. eh? :P
Quote from: Sabby on May 09, 2014, 12:12:19 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 08, 2014, 03:16:54 PM
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 08, 2014, 01:57:25 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 08, 2014, 01:51:12 PM
In the case of murder, a cop killing someone is treated differently than a civilian because the cop is trained in knowing when and when not to use a firearm. A civilian, typically speaking, doesn't possess that level of discretion and knowledge.
i think he ment that when you kill a cop it is treated diffrently than when you kill a civilian
Ah. In that case, I don't think it should be. I don't see what makes a cop's life any more valuable than the guy next to him, but that's just me.
We live in a social hierarchy. Different values are assigned to different positions. A police officer is a voluntary position for someone who uphold our laws and the general peace, something that we enjoy as a community. Asking why a cop is seen as more important then a random citizen is like asking why we prefer order to chaos.
I don't think anyone's line of job makes him better, at all.
If I had to summarize all the bad in this world: killing, robbing, polution, hunger, terrorism, nickelback albums, crocs footwear etc. I would say that the root of all Evil is SELFISHNESS.
And I would also say that is in the human nature and we will never change it.
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 09, 2014, 12:24:56 AM
Quote from: stephen on May 09, 2014, 12:23:22 AM
I'm not going to play the hypothetical game sorry.
There's so many issues with your hypothetical situation that I could go on and on about that make answering it impossible.
All I can say is that it comes back to the definition of murder. If an act of killing is defined as murder, then it is wrong.
Cool.
But if some dad shoots the local drug lord and I'm on the jury... I'd probably let him go free based on my free will. Which I guess would make me a hypocrite as I just typed "social hierarchy is bullshit". :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Jury nullification.
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 09, 2014, 12:43:46 AM
Man at any moment that right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness can be revoked. Which is why it is so important to never merely assumed that it will always be there.
revoked by who?
and just because someone is murdered, doesn't mean their "right to life" has been taken away. It means their "right to life" has been infringed upon. Yes they're dead but their rights didn't cease to exist. Their rights were just ignored.
QuoteAlso I do not believe in absolute. Murder is wrong but it is not absolutely wrong. I have no problem murdering murders. eh? :P
Is murdering murderers murder?
Again, it comes back to the definition of murder.
Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on May 09, 2014, 01:22:31 AM
If I had to summarize all the bad in this world: killing, robbing, polution, hunger, terrorism, nickelback albums, crocs footwear etc. I would say that the root of all Evil is SELFISHNESS.
And I would also say that is in the human nature and we will never change it.
Define selfishness.
Quote from: Sabby on May 09, 2014, 12:12:19 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 08, 2014, 03:16:54 PM
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 08, 2014, 01:57:25 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 08, 2014, 01:51:12 PM
In the case of murder, a cop killing someone is treated differently than a civilian because the cop is trained in knowing when and when not to use a firearm. A civilian, typically speaking, doesn't possess that level of discretion and knowledge.
i think he ment that when you kill a cop it is treated diffrently than when you kill a civilian
Ah. In that case, I don't think it should be. I don't see what makes a cop's life any more valuable than the guy next to him, but that's just me.
We live in a social hierarchy. Different values are assigned to different positions. A police officer is a voluntary position for someone who uphold our laws and the general peace, something that we enjoy as a community. Asking why a cop is seen as more important then a random citizen is like asking why we prefer order to chaos.
That's silly. If that's true, we should be punishing people who murder doctors more harshly because doctors have the ability to restore life and health to others and give them the means to lead a normal life again.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdarkgate.net%2Fcomic%2Fimages%2Fcyanideandhappiness%2F1399625951.png&hash=1ed9d8819e8ba12c7e2834c920350d2ceed446e6)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/t1.0-9/535540_3714822155174_1340522603_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1.0-9/527320_3791675716465_1683491193_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/560481_3987004239556_404916124_n.jpg)
It's a miracle!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.shitbrix.com%2Fhashed_silo_content%2Fc57%2F984%2F732%2Fresized%2Foh-god-when-you-see-it-oh-christ-you-ll-shit-brix-422440.jpg&hash=ef8a9205e42971d6083a1429e6da31ad17938593)
Quote from: maledoro on May 09, 2014, 01:26:24 PM
It's a miracle!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.shitbrix.com%2Fhashed_silo_content%2Fc57%2F984%2F732%2Fresized%2Foh-god-when-you-see-it-oh-christ-you-ll-shit-brix-422440.jpg&hash=ef8a9205e42971d6083a1429e6da31ad17938593)
Holy crap.
I wasn't saying that police were more important then civilians in any official capacity, just that humans do tend to assign different values to different groups of people. This doesn't necessarily find it's way through to the legal system, and I'd argue that's a good thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTpPenopq8Y#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTpPenopq8Y#ws)
Quote from: maledoro on May 09, 2014, 12:55:54 PM
https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/560481_3987004239556_404916124_n.jpg
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview7%2F4762182%2Fvan-helsing-i-am-dracula-o.gif&hash=f91227f33781bef214965c145e4038b592f6220a)
Quote from: stephen on May 09, 2014, 01:33:37 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 09, 2014, 12:43:46 AM
Man at any moment that right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness can be revoked. Which is why it is so important to never merely assumed that it will always be there.
revoked by who?
and just because someone is murdered, doesn't mean their "right to life" has been taken away. It means their "right to life" has been infringed upon. Yes they're dead but their rights didn't cease to exist. Their rights were just ignored.
QuoteAlso I do not believe in absolute. Murder is wrong but it is not absolutely wrong. I have no problem murdering murders. eh? :P
Is murdering murderers murder?
Again, it comes back to the definition of murder.
Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on May 09, 2014, 01:22:31 AM
If I had to summarize all the bad in this world: killing, robbing, polution, hunger, terrorism, nickelback albums, crocs footwear etc. I would say that the root of all Evil is SELFISHNESS.
And I would also say that is in the human nature and we will never change it.
Define selfishness.
People will act thinking only, or mostly, on their own beneft or interest, regardless of how this actions will affect other people.
I used to think that the root of all evil was ignorance, not beeing enough aware of the world, the reality we live in, making people not knowing the exact consecuences of their actions, but now I think it's selfishness. Well, and then there is people that is just BAD, pure EVIL. The rest, is just thinking: ok, I wanna do this, but this will f**k up some people..bah, I'll do it anyway.
Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on May 09, 2014, 06:53:37 PMI used to think that the root of all evil was ignorance, not being enough aware of the world, the reality we live in, making people not knowing the exact consequences of their actions, but now I think it's selfishness. Well, and then there is people that is just BAD, pure EVIL. The rest, is just thinking: ok, I wanna do this, but this will f**k up some people..bah, I'll do it anyway.
That would be indifference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrCFZCIfpXM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrCFZCIfpXM)
SUPREME STUPIDITY Kills The First Amendment
(Apparently, I don't live in America so I wouldn't know how valid this is.)
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on May 09, 2014, 09:46:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrCFZCIfpXM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrCFZCIfpXM)
SUPREME STUPIDITY Kills The First Amendment
(Apparently, I don't live in America so I wouldn't know how valid this is.)
Yeah, the Supreme Court had pretty much ignored its country's constitution and other documents that declare the US of A to be a secular nation. They pretty much violated the rights of
everybody else to let the Xtians have their way over others.
Honestly if they keep this up there is going to be a lot of disenfranchised young people who don't buy into this train of thought.
How can they allow that?
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 10, 2014, 04:23:32 PM
How can they allow that?
Because America has come under the control of the ignorant.
Due to apathy.
omfg, so intollerent, y u cant u jus let peple baleif?
Quote from: Sabby on May 10, 2014, 04:55:35 PM
omfg, so intollerent, y u cant u jus let peple baleif?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F31.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_md8jtsn2m51rrcqzbo1_500.gif&hash=a10ede2d0688a5bc68c4b32eea673516610d030d)
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on May 10, 2014, 04:54:39 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 10, 2014, 04:23:32 PM
How can they allow that?
Because America has come under the control of the ignorant. Due to apathy.
Sweden is looking more tempting to me every day.
Quote from: maledoro on May 10, 2014, 09:23:07 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on May 10, 2014, 04:54:39 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 10, 2014, 04:23:32 PM
How can they allow that?
Because America has come under the control of the ignorant. Due to apathy.
Sweden is looking more tempting to me every day.
Get your ass, and love for ass, over here!
dammit maledoro MODERATION IS MORE
Quote from: maledoro on May 10, 2014, 09:23:07 PM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on May 10, 2014, 04:54:39 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 10, 2014, 04:23:32 PM
How can they allow that?
Because America has come under the control of the ignorant. Due to apathy.
Sweden is looking more tempting to me every day.
Move to Canada! We can argue stuff over beer and wings ;D
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 11, 2014, 12:41:10 AMMove to Canada! We can argue stuff over beer and wings ;D
Except all of your wings would be Right.
;)
Oh you're atheist? Let's have sex!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1.0-9/10177454_441733839305216_4966651046157179362_n.jpg)
Quote from: maledoro on May 11, 2014, 05:10:49 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1.0-9/10177454_441733839305216_4966651046157179362_n.jpg
It's obvious sheep and goat are metaphors and shouldn't be taken literally. :laugh:
Quote from: maledoro on May 11, 2014, 11:38:09 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 11, 2014, 12:41:10 AMMove to Canada! We can argue stuff over beer and wings ;D
Except all of your wings would be Right.
;)
Well yeah, because they're so damn tasty.
Something I'd like to share with the forum regarding religious groups (and even new age groups) that may help to explain their dogmatic resistance of science.
I recently learned about a condition called Compulsive Self Reliance. Basically, it's a trust issue where the person doesn't want to rely on others, even for fields or subjects they don't understand. Notice how many of these individuals who are self professed experts on Theology and Science won't ever refer to experts, unless the expert already agrees with their own conclusions?
I have to say, this makes sense of a lot of Theists I've followed on Youtube. They seem to consistently distance themselves from any and all groups to remain their own authority, and spin paranoid delusions to discount people who are more knowledgeable then them on these subjects. The entire scientific community has a hidden agenda against religion, and most Catholic groups misinterpret the Bible, so neither can be trusted, and the persons own findings, however subjective or flat out wrong, are the only truths they can accept.
I'll admit, this is not a topic I'm strong with, so I'm curious what your thoughts are on Compulsive Self Reliance and what role it may play in spiritual belief systems. Feel free to move away from Theism and use woo (pseudoscience) if you're more familiar with crap like Homeopathy.
Plain and simple, if it conflicts with their fantasy world, they reject it; consciously or not.
Quote from: maledoro on May 12, 2014, 01:10:37 PM
Plain and simple, if it conflicts with their fantasy world, they reject it; consciously or not.
their fantasy world as you called it conflicts with your view of the world so you reject it. what makes your view better?
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 12, 2014, 01:28:35 PMtheir fantasy world as you called it conflicts with your view of the world so you reject it. what makes your view better?
Empirical evidence.
A factual view isn't subjective however.
Mooner, these are people who believe the world is concave and that a magic force beyond time and space orders them to love everyone, despite that force declaring them evil through no fault of their own.
Are you seriously comparing a world view that demonstrably flawed to Maledoro, as if the two peoples view of the world were somehow comparable?
well my point was that he said that they reject stuff that conflicts with their view while he does the same and lets face it none of the world views is proven to be the right one so his empirical evidence is as good as their holy book
Correct, no world view can be proven to 100% certainly, so comparing them by their provability is useless.
This is why any argument that relies on certainty can be dismissed. We don't operate on certainty, we evaluate everything in levels. What we accept as true doesn't come in a binary format.
In the Empirical Realm, if I wanted a beer and there wasn't one in the house, I would get up off my ass and go to the store and buy some. In the realm known as Mystica, I would have to wish for a beer. Most likely I would not receive it and have to come up with an excuse as to why I didn't get beer, and I would remain beerless. If by some rare chance someone would stop by with beer, I would have to come up with an excuse as to how the powers that be would contact my friend and get him to bring me beer. That conclusion I would come up with would be one that would most like be untestable and therefore not realistic.
do you actually know something more about religions than the thing that they exist and their names?
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 12, 2014, 01:51:43 PMdo you actually know something more about religions than the thing that they exist and their names?
Yeah, do you?
Could you please rephrase the question? It's too vague for me to give a useful answer.
I think he meant to ask, how deep is your knowledge of specific religions beyond simply knowing what they're called.
Ah, that I can answer.
I will admit, my knowledge of Theology isn't too strong. By Theology, I mean the history of the Catholic Church, and even whats taught in the Bible. I make no claims to the contrary, however.
What I do try and speak about is religious arguments, things that are presented by Theists. I don't need a comprehensive understanding of Catholicism and Biblical scripture to actually compete with a lot of these arguments. If something comes up that does require that, however, I have to admit that I am outclassed and remove myself from the discussion.
So to summarize, I argue with logic and reason, and only tackle arguments where logic and reason is actually of use to me.
Now, I have a question for you Mooner. What was the point of your question? Because it really reads as 'how do you know?'. Considering how many Theists of the last few years have adopted questioning of rationality and even reality as a way to defend their beliefs, I may be jumping at shadows here, that's just how it comes across.
I've studied comparative religions and mythology.
Logic and reason have no place in theology. If they did, theology would cease to exist.
Correct, but logic and reason can be applied to illogical and irrational beliefs to demonstrate how they don't bloody work.
Quote from: Sabby on May 12, 2014, 02:14:55 PM
Correct, but logic and reason can be applied to illogical and irrational beliefs to demonstrate how they don't bloody work.
And then denied by the faithful. I accused someone of Special Pleading and he would either deny that he didn't apply SP to his argument or tell me that a certain rule applies to everything but to his God.
One I heard recently.
"If you devote so much time to being against Burger King, then obviously, you don't like Burger King, right? So Atheists are against God, therefore they hate God"
"By tha logic, aren't you a homophobe for being against homosexuality?"
"NO! That's different!"
Quote from: Sabby on May 12, 2014, 02:41:39 PM
One I heard recently.
"If you devote so much time to being against Burger King, then obviously, you don't like Burger King, right? So Atheists are against God, therefore they hate God"
"By tha logic, aren't you a homophobe for being against homosexuality?"
"NO! That's different!"
;D
Quote from: Sabby on May 12, 2014, 02:41:39 PM
"If you devote so much time to being against Burger King, then obviously, you don't like Burger King, right? So Atheists are against God, therefore they hate God"
just a thing that came into my mind, how could you hate something you don't believe that exist? ;D
and back to what was point of my question. malerdo used a simple beer example but is sounded really stupid to me, i know that it was just an example and should not be taken literally but i as a person who knows many believers(catholics to be exact) found the whole example riduculous. i don't want to say there is no believer thinking that way because extremes are in every group but it is a minority but most of the believers don't and i can see why malerdo thinks reliegion is stupid(correct me if i misinterpreted you) if he thinks that that is the way religious people think.
Okay, let me try it this way.
Rational people can have irrational beliefs. This doesn't make them irrational. Really, almost everyone has them, to some degree. However, someone who has a functioning brain, who applies their logic and reason every day, has to compartmentalize their beliefs. If you can't apply your logic and reason to something, then it gets stored away in it's own category in order for that person to continue believing it.
This obviously makes it very unlikely that the person will regularly reflect on this belief.
For instance, ghosts. Many perfectly rational and intelligent people believe in ghosts, but the way they think about ghosts is very different to how they think about the average day to day events. They pay lip service to the belief and treat it like it's a normal belief, but they rarely think about it in any meaningful way. They consider what they will eat, how they will do their job, what they will spend their money on, and wonder how their car works, but when it comes to ghosts, they simply believe without that kind of habitual pondering. It's like a 'no think zone', if that makes sense.
That's fine. However, for a topic as personal and defining as a God, some people can't keep it in that no think zone, they have to justify it and make a case for it, and you can't really do it, so any argument formed has to be illogical, just made to sound logical.
i get what you are saying. but because i know many religious people i am able to look into it through their eyes and i don't think a person must be stupid/ilogical/have some mental disease to believe and i can accept their belief. and my last coment was pretty much just answering why i asked whether he knows something more about the religions
I actually stated quite clearly, twice, that rational people can hold irrational beliefs, and that that doesn't make them stupid/irrational. The thing to remember is that anything developed on top of those belief is also going to be irrational, no matter how you word it.
I am not even coming close to saying all Theists are dumb.
sorry if it sounded like i think that you think that all theists are dumb, wasn't ment that way. the reason i said it the way i did was because i was considerind the whole conversation and there were statements that had the tone that all theist are dumb. but anyways when i first posted here i wasn't looking for an argument
There is no argument here man, just a small misunderstanding. To be fair though, that usually erupts into a full on argument when Religion is involved :P
Quote from: maledoro on May 12, 2014, 02:51:07 PM
Quote from: Sabby on May 12, 2014, 02:41:39 PM
One I heard recently.
"If you devote so much time to being against Burger King, then obviously, you don't like Burger King, right? So Atheists are against God, therefore they hate God"
"By tha logic, aren't you a homophobe for being against homosexuality?"
"NO! That's different!"
;D
Hey mal, aren't you a BK fan?
Brett Keane?
Quotejust a thing that came into my mind, how could you hate something you don't believe that exist? ;D
Simple: we don't hate God.
Quoteand back to what was point of my question. malerdo used a simple beer example but is sounded really stupid to me
Considering that you can't handle a set of eight letters, I figured that you couldn't explain how prayer works.
Quotei know that it was just an example and should not be taken literally but i as a person who knows many believers(catholics to be exact) found the whole example riduculous. i don't want to say there is no believer thinking that way because extremes are in every group but it is a minority but most of the believers don't and i can see why malerdo thinks reliegion is stupid(correct me if i misinterpreted you) if he thinks that that is the way religious people think.
So, you can't explain how prayer works?
The bait :laugh:
Quote from: Vulhala on May 13, 2014, 12:36:42 AM
The bait :laugh:
Bait, nothing. I gave him most of the day to say, "I'm sorry, but this is how prayer works...", and instead, he misspells my name and focuses on the fact that I used beer as an example of a desired effect instead of something more convoluted, just for the sake of his comprehension.
No, I want him to lay it all out, nice and neat, how, in his mind, prayer works.
I hope it's like the Answered Prayer argument.
People pray, and some of them get what they ask for, so SOMETHING must be answering those prayers.
"God answers every prayer with one of 3 answers. Yes, no, or not now"
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Ifjz6xXFzds%2FUtGLZYquaII%2FAAAAAAAAQqM%2F79gl3CNl5MM%2Fs1600%2Fprayer.jpg&hash=b64c976ad00e1beb9a9958a4fb392f3d13eaedeb)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atheistmemebase.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2F095-What-prayer-still-cant-do.jpg&hash=f6ee8f24dde636d674151099708fcb6fbb9d8249)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freason-being.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2FMeme21.jpg&hash=96b04a4c56a830ba859da3643b0de5f71fd0137b)
Quote from: maledoro on May 13, 2014, 12:57:25 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Ifjz6xXFzds%2FUtGLZYquaII%2FAAAAAAAAQqM%2F79gl3CNl5MM%2Fs1600%2Fprayer.jpg&hash=b64c976ad00e1beb9a9958a4fb392f3d13eaedeb)
http://www.atheistmemebase.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/095-What-prayer-still-cant-do.jpg
http://reason-being.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Meme21.jpg
I believe that's checkmate, Theists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqzCPJjottA#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqzCPJjottA#ws)
This was great to listen to. Seems every time you get more then 1 Theist in these conversations they end up going at each others throats and telling each other to repent.
Plenty of Scotsman here, but none of them seem true.
http://aattp.org/florida-town-must-open-meeting-with-satanic-prayer-or-violate-supreme-court-ruling/ (http://aattp.org/florida-town-must-open-meeting-with-satanic-prayer-or-violate-supreme-court-ruling/)
My favorite pantheist quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xaj407ofjNE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xaj407ofjNE)
f**k Jesus, the stars died for me.
Quote from: Sabby on May 13, 2014, 04:01:01 AM
f**k Jesus, the stars died for me.
They did indeed.
Quote from: maledoro on May 13, 2014, 12:32:28 AM
Quoteand back to what was point of my question. malerdo used a simple beer example but is sounded really stupid to me
Considering that you can't handle a set of eight letters, I figured that you couldn't explain how prayer works.
sorry for the name misspelling, i didn't wanted to somehow deform your name, stuff like that happens
Quote from: maledoro on May 13, 2014, 12:32:28 AM
Quotei know that it was just an example and should not be taken literally but i as a person who knows many believers(catholics to be exact) found the whole example riduculous. i don't want to say there is no believer thinking that way because extremes are in every group but it is a minority but most of the believers don't and i can see why malerdo thinks reliegion is stupid(correct me if i misinterpreted you) if he thinks that that is the way religious people think.
So, you can't explain how prayer works?
i'm not an expert on these things to tell you how prayer works but from what i've seen prayer is more of a discusion with god, people thank him for all the thing in life he gave them and ask him to give them strength in hard times. if the subject of a prayer is 'give me this and that' than the person would be disappointed. god is not there to grant your every wish, it's more like keeping protective hand over you
So, "God, please give me the strength to be there for my mother as the cancer you gave her slowly kills her" is your typical kind of prayer then? You realize that when people pray it's very similar to just reassuring themselves. I'd consider it more plausible that they are trying to kick their mental fortitude back into gear, rather then conversing with a mystical being whose response would be impossible to tell apart from happy coincidence.
However one tries to explain prayer, there's always a leap required to get to God. You can explain how it works, what's a valid prayer and what kind of response you can expect, but the 'and then it gets to Yahweh' part always requires a leap.
Yeah I've had many a conversation that goes like this:
Me: According to the bible, man is fallible.
Believer: yes Man is fallible and will never be perfect, only god is infallible and therefore perfect.
Me: But man wrote the bible so the bible is not perfect therefore your belief is in something that you KNOW is wrong.
Believer: Ahh yes man wrote the bible INSPIRED by God so the bible is perfect.
Me: Riiiiigggghhhhtttttt. Ok, IF we accept that the bible is perfect then you must accept that your INTERPRETATION of the bible will always be wrong because you are fallible.
Believer: It's called Faith.
Me: Yes, but you're putting your faith in something that you know is wrong. Your interpretation of the bible by your own standards will always be wrong, what you know about God will always be wrong.
Believer: It's what I believe.
Me: Riiiiggghhhhtt.
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 13, 2014, 06:29:23 AMsorry for the name misspelling, i didn't wanted to somehow deform your name, stuff like that happens
I prayed for it to be respelled correctly, but you know how that would turn out.
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 13, 2014, 06:29:23 AMi'm not an expert on these things to tell you how prayer works but from what i've seen prayer is more of a discusion with god, people thank him for all the thing in life he gave them and ask him to give them strength in hard times. if the subject of a prayer is 'give me this and that' than the person would be disappointed. god is not there to grant your every wish, it's more like keeping protective hand over you
What if I wanted him to protect me from thirst? I'd still have to go out and get my refreshment, though the Bible said otherwise.
stephen: I had a similar convo with a Bleever. I was talking at a normal level with friends and called faith "make believe". Someone at the next table turned to us with a scowl and told me he was offended at what I had said. After a few of my questions and his
excuses replies, he told me that I just had to believe. I replied, "I have to MAKE myself BELIEVE this stuff?!" His lower lip twitched and he turned back to his meal.
ever heard this story?
QuoteA fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."
The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."
So the rowboat went on.
Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."
To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the motorboat went on.
Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."
To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.
Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"
To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 13, 2014, 12:11:51 PM
ever heard this story?
QuoteA fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."
The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."
So the rowboat went on.
Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."
To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the motorboat went on.
Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."
To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.
Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"
To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
That was a favorite joke around the seminary.
i just used it because of the 'protect me from thirst' so that you know that it isn't like that you will have no need to drink but he will kinda make sure you can get a dring
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 13, 2014, 12:19:07 PM
i just used it because of the 'protect me from thirst' so that you know that it isn't like that you will have no need to drink but he will kinda make sure you can get a dring
But, again, I have to take it upon myself to get my drink. It's up to me to earn and pay the money for it.
and what? god is not supposed to give you everything you want. the reward comes in the afterlife
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 13, 2014, 12:29:07 PM
and what? god is not supposed to give you everything you want. the reward comes in the afterlife
Then what was that all about earlier with the flood and boat and helicopter? That wasn't about the Afterlife.
You might want to reread Matthew 7:7-11:
"Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!"
the guy asked and god send him a bout he didn't magically telleported him from the rooftop. the thing that he actually needed to stand up and go to the bout instead of just sitting there waiting for magical rescue meant that you as well need to do something and not just ask and wait
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 13, 2014, 12:44:13 PMthe guy asked and god send him a bout he didn't magically telleported him from the rooftop. the thing that he actually needed to stand up and go to the bout instead of just sitting there waiting for magical rescue meant that you as well need to do something and not just ask and wait
I understood that the first time I heard it 29 years ago. But you were talking about God giving you what you need in the Afterlife and the flood and boat was supposed to be in the Here and Now. So, which is it: prayer works for what you need in this life, or it works for getting you to a better place in the Afterlife?
prayer works for what you need in this life but the point of a prayer isn't to give you everything you wantwithout even moving a finger. i used the boat example because of this:
Quote from: maledoro on May 13, 2014, 11:49:15 AM
What if I wanted him to protect me from thirst? I'd still have to go out and get my refreshment,
because here it seems like if you didn't understand that you need to do something for it as well.
and the thing that gets you a better place in the afterlife are your actions
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 13, 2014, 01:01:14 PMbecause here it seems like if you didn't understand that you need to do something for it as well.
But Scripture says otherwise.
If I need to do it myself, then I don't need God.
the post before you said you understand it. and i don't remember a part that says sit on your buts, don't do a single thing i would give you everything
Mooner, the problem is that the God in this equation is kind of useless. It's no different to you attributing your opportunities to me, just I won't give you everything. I expect you to take the initiative and do your best for your own benefit.
What kind of a presence do I have here? Bloody none. I'm just an unnecessary step in the process.
i get that, i just don't like the point of view that believers just pray and expect god to give them everything
Quote from: MoonerSK on May 13, 2014, 01:46:24 PMi get that, i just don't like the point of view that believers just pray and expect god to give them everything
Well, not
everything...just everything that they pray for. But, in keeping within this thread, I never said that Bleevers prayed for everything. I don't hold that view of them at all. I'm just saying that in the time after a disaster, they might find it more rewarding to pick up a hammer and rebuild than to pick up a bible and pray to the god that could have prevented the disaster in the first place or, worse yet, sent it their way.
Strange that natural disasters are always God being morally ambiguous, rather then Satan. It's like they want to attribute evil to Satan, just not any kind of real power.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farchive.wired.com%2Fimages_blogs%2Ftable_of_malcontents%2Fimages%2F2007%2F04%2F05%2Fgodvsatan.jpg&hash=ee37ac5dcf4b274e8fc7e766f9f80e7f1380658b)
And this doesn't include those who died in the Flood.
Quote from: maledoro on May 14, 2014, 11:14:51 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farchive.wired.com%2Fimages_blogs%2Ftable_of_malcontents%2Fimages%2F2007%2F04%2F05%2Fgodvsatan.jpg&hash=ee37ac5dcf4b274e8fc7e766f9f80e7f1380658b)
And this doesn't include those who died in the Flood.
GOD, getting shit done for over 2000 years.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fglobal3.memecdn.com%2Farrogant-pussy-sat-on-a-fence_c_1675783.jpg&hash=cd6a3c95fb32d2c231cd5708a8d5248edb04e971)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10357199_628550407239767_4442671091899127078_n.jpg)
Quote from: maledoro on May 14, 2014, 09:37:20 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10357199_628550407239767_4442671091899127078_n.jpg)
Sweet!
Why did they photoshop the little girl to make it look like she has boobs?
Quote from: SiL on May 14, 2014, 09:59:39 PM
Why did they photoshop the little girl to make it look like she has boobs?
Why not?
How do you know it was Photoshopped?
Well they might've used a different program.
But it's clearly been f**ked around with. And poorly.
It looks more like the field around the lettering is blurry and is distorting the blouse under where you think you are seeing her "boobs".
Yes, and so the image manipulation has made it look like they've tried to give her breasts. Even if it's not intentional it's a funny oversight considering the text.
Quote from: SiL on May 14, 2014, 10:25:29 PMYes, and so the image manipulation has made it look like they've tried to give her breasts. Even if it's not intentional it's a funny oversight considering the text.
I guess if you look for smut, you see smut.
They were probably just trying to make a chubby kid look slimmer. I mean by that pick her boobs would be coming out of her stomach. :-\ Who notices that?
Not sure why people are getting defensive over pointing out something that just seemed funny, but okay :laugh:
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 15, 2014, 12:20:17 AMWho notices that?
Considering it's literally right next to the headline text, it's not exactly hard to spot.
Surely you're not suggesting that atheists would be disingenuous in their relentless pursuit of mockery?
Naw, I'd never say that! Just that this one was too busy thinking about how clever they were and didn't notice they'd perhaps unintentionally given what looks like a 4 year old some damn saggy titties. On a message about selling daughters as sex slaves.
We Atheists are a simple folk. We pretend like we're interested in fair and enlightening discussion, but really we're just after easy laughs mocking people with other beliefs.
Just ask the Christians! They'll tell you.
We thought someone was being a pervert? :laugh:
So you think the saggy titties were intentional.
No and I didn't notice it. Still I cannot explain the reason for the blur. Wouldn't be surprising if someone after the fact did exactly what you think happened. :)
edit: well I suppose I do think it was intentional. Probably some 4chaner.
First, you thought they were doing it on purpose:
Quote from: SiL on May 14, 2014, 10:25:29 PM
Yes, and so the image manipulation has made it look like they've tried to give her breasts. Even if it's not intentional it's a funny oversight considering the text.
Then, you thought it was an accident:
Quote from: SiL on May 15, 2014, 12:48:10 AM
Naw, I'd never say that! Just that this one was too busy thinking about how clever they were and didn't notice they'd perhaps unintentionally given what looks like a 4 year old some damn saggy titties. On a message about selling daughters as sex slaves.
Which is it?
...
Actually I don't even see it.
You guys are seeing things.
Quote from: maledoro on May 15, 2014, 01:23:53 AM
First, you thought they were doing it on purpose:
Quote from: SiL on May 14, 2014, 10:25:29 PM
Yes, and so the image manipulation has made it look like they've tried to give her breasts. Even if it's not intentional it's a funny oversight considering the text.
Then, you thought it was an accident:
Quote from: SiL on May 15, 2014, 12:48:10 AM
Naw, I'd never say that! Just that this one was too busy thinking about how clever they were and didn't notice they'd perhaps unintentionally given what looks like a 4 year old some damn saggy titties. On a message about selling daughters as sex slaves.
Which is it?
Bolded the part you clearly missed for you. You're welcome!
EDIT
And you also missed this, which might help:
QuoteYes, and so the image manipulation has made it look like they've tried to give her breasts. Even if it's not intentional it's a funny oversight considering the text.
Are you done getting worked up about what someone thinks of an image macro or do we need to keep going with this?
All this fuss over some boobies...
All this fuss over a stupid comment that should've been ignored :laugh:
It's that damn scientific method that is demanding that we get to the bottom of this boobgate shit. :laugh:
Well I'm done with it. :P
I'll be here for when Maledoro comes back to flog the dead horse because he's really, really personally attached to the image or something. :P
Quote from: SiL on May 15, 2014, 11:57:28 AM
I'll be here for when Maledoro comes back to flog the dead horse because he's really, really personally attached to the image or something. :P
You're only saying that to get the last word. Cheap.
I said my bit 10½ hours ago. Sorry that it's still with you. :(
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 15, 2014, 11:56:10 AM
It's that damn scientific method that is demanding that we get to the bottom of this boobgate shit. :laugh:
:D quote of the day
Quote from: maledoro on May 15, 2014, 12:01:27 PM
I said my bit 10½ hours ago.
And then came back 10 1/2 hours later when I finally saw your reply to respond to the conversation within minutes of
my reply.
I can keep doing this because I've got shit all else to do, what's your excuse? Or can we get back to the thread now?
Quote from: SiL on May 15, 2014, 12:05:27 PM
Quote from: maledoro on May 15, 2014, 12:01:27 PM
I said my bit 10½ hours ago.
And then came back 10 1/2 hours later when I finally saw your reply to respond to the conversation within minutes of my reply.
I can keep doing this because I've got shit all else to do, what's your excuse? Or can we get back to the thread now?
We've moved on.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPE4zaNN.jpg&hash=fa8c868ee7dfbd4042fbabdb407ab4a103102b29)
...
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 01:48:48 PM
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The point of this was what, exactly?
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 15, 2014, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 01:48:48 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPE4zaNN.jpg&hash=fa8c868ee7dfbd4042fbabdb407ab4a103102b29)
The point of this was what, exactly?
The point being that atheism is a gay thing.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 15, 2014, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 01:48:48 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPE4zaNN.jpg&hash=fa8c868ee7dfbd4042fbabdb407ab4a103102b29)
The point of this was what, exactly?
The point being that atheism is a gay thing.
What?
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 15, 2014, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 01:48:48 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPE4zaNN.jpg&hash=fa8c868ee7dfbd4042fbabdb407ab4a103102b29)
The point of this was what, exactly?
The point being that atheism is a gay thing.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freplygif.net%2Fthumbnail%2F116.gif&hash=8bb6cb9304403df2d5676cc7871ff731cdb5c342)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 01:48:48 PM
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What?
Kirkland, you're one of the strangest gay men I've encountered. Are you trying to get people to dislike gay people?
Please just stop.
Quote from: Vickers on May 15, 2014, 03:25:34 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 01:48:48 PM
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What?
Kirkland, you're one of the strangest gay men I've encountered. Are you trying to get people to dislike gay people?
Please just stop.
Nah, gay people are cool. He, however, is not.
Darth Rinzler is our resident crazy religious nutjob.
KirklandSignature is our resident crazy anti-religious nutjob.
atheism is teh gayz?
Quote from: Blacklabel on May 15, 2014, 06:04:41 PM
atheism is teh gayz?
Yes. Apparently there is a link between being attracted to the same sex and not believing in any deity. Not sure how but I'd like Kirkland to explain his "joke."
welp. I guess i'm gay and i didnt know it. :P
let's "gayify" the thread even more then.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_Wc7kTwCjGlg%2FTCGNcSCjm-I%2FAAAAAAAADRs%2F3dSfJmII8Oc%2Fs1600%2FManowar4.jpg&hash=9b3bbf2d65920c990b074035822659d14d240c74)
8)
Does this explain why I have a Bi-fu?
Kirkland is most definitely the biggest f**king idiot on this forum.
Quote from: Vickers on May 15, 2014, 06:08:43 PM
Quote from: Blacklabel on May 15, 2014, 06:04:41 PM
atheism is teh gayz?
Yes. Apparently there is a link between being attracted to the same sex and not believing in any deity. Not sure how but I'd like Kirkland to explain his "joke."
Atheism is attractive to gays because xtianity and Islam condemn same sex relationships. Surely there must be a link if all twenty in my gaggle of sistahs are all atheists? Atheism to me is as gay as Sunday brunch and James Randi would approve whole heartedly on this.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 06:52:59 PM
Quote from: Vickers on May 15, 2014, 06:08:43 PM
Quote from: Blacklabel on May 15, 2014, 06:04:41 PM
atheism is teh gayz?
Yes. Apparently there is a link between being attracted to the same sex and not believing in any deity. Not sure how but I'd like Kirkland to explain his "joke."
Atheism is attractive to gays because xtianity and Islam condemn same sex relationships. Surely there must be a link if all twenty in my gaggle of sistahs are all atheists? Atheism to me is as gay as Sunday brunch and James Randi would approve whole heartedly on this.
But your original joke was:
"Says he's atheist
but isn't gay"
Just because someone's atheist, I'm not sure how that makes them gay. There are many other reasons to be atheist.
I'm not atheist because Christianity and other religions condemn same sex relationships. I'm atheist because there is flawed logic in religion and I don't believe in any deity. I just happen to be gay but it's certainly not my motivation behind being an atheist.
Quote from: Vickers on May 15, 2014, 07:44:33 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 06:52:59 PM
Quote from: Vickers on May 15, 2014, 06:08:43 PM
Quote from: Blacklabel on May 15, 2014, 06:04:41 PM
atheism is teh gayz?
Yes. Apparently there is a link between being attracted to the same sex and not believing in any deity. Not sure how but I'd like Kirkland to explain his "joke."
Atheism is attractive to gays because xtianity and Islam condemn same sex relationships. Surely there must be a link if all twenty in my gaggle of sistahs are all atheists? Atheism to me is as gay as Sunday brunch and James Randi would approve whole heartedly on this.
But your original joke was:
"Says he's atheist
but isn't gay"
Just because someone's atheist, I'm not sure how that makes them gay. There are many other reasons to be atheist.
I'm not atheist because Christianity and other religions condemn same sex relationships. I'm atheist because there is flawed logic in religion and I don't believe in any deity. I just happen to be gay but it's certainly not my motivation behind being an atheist.
I never said that was my sole reason for being atheist. Xtians and Muslims hatiing on gays is just another reason to rebel against them under the atheist manifesto. You wont find NPH or Johnny Weir praying to any god. Usually when someone says they atheist, I automatically assume they're gay and find it funny when that's not the case.
...
Somebody kill me.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview2%2F1272533%2Fknife-o.gif&hash=4b276c3cf815dae0f585015a76ab488337219a5c)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2F906d6337e337aa9f8f5052c6197b40e0%2Ftumblr_inline_mq5ehjuJQl1qz4rgp.gif&hash=c151f12950741e0f3423ee5e3872e7c9c18ec4e3)
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 10:22:10 PM
Usually when someone says they atheist, I automatically assume they're gay and find it funny when that's not the case.
That's because you're insane, honey.
Erik, no.
Lol
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 10:22:10 PM
Usually when someone says they atheist, I automatically assume they're gay and find it funny when that's not the case.
I don't think being atheist means what you think it means
Keep feeding him, people, and he'll just keep going :laugh:
Quote from: SiL on May 15, 2014, 11:07:26 PM
Keep feeding him, people, and he'll just keep going :laugh:
I'm okay with that. His insanity is a source of much amusement.
As a heathen and an enjoyer of sausage festivals, I have this to say.
You position on Religion and your position in bed are not the same thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE1jWXX0CM8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE1jWXX0CM8#ws)
If anything can make you lose faith in a benevolent creator, it is this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbetapedia.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2FTekn0-8.jpg&hash=e50319076b0c3a9fa097c12d00c200fd328b56d3)
His face of atheism looks like he just looked in the freezer and saw a tub of ice cream he thought he'd finished the night before still has some ice cream down the bottom.
While a chorus of angels sings.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 15, 2014, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 01:48:48 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPE4zaNN.jpg&hash=fa8c868ee7dfbd4042fbabdb407ab4a103102b29)
The point of this was what, exactly?
The point being that atheism is a gay thing.
As much as pedophilia is a catholic or muslim thing... Oh wait
Quote from: Cvalda on May 18, 2014, 04:20:07 AM
If anything can make you lose faith in a benevolent creator, it is this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbetapedia.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2FTekn0-8.jpg&hash=e50319076b0c3a9fa097c12d00c200fd328b56d3)
He's missing his fedora
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34M4gK3lW9U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34M4gK3lW9U)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNejZAmdIG4# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNejZAmdIG4#)
BLESS YOU JESUS. :laugh: HOLY SHIT.
QuoteHe's pushing that baby out.. pushhhhh!!!!! Pushhhh!!!
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/p296x100/10401484_1189758391111862_722453118747904557_n.jpg)
Saw this on my FB and I thought it was written well in terms of new age
atheism.
"Neil deGrasse Tyson is a tangential member of what the media refers to as "New Atheism". He's much less condescending than Richard Dawkins, and far less of a Neo Con than Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris, but he is a part of a growing movement that's done it's part in promoting an Islamophobia that's given permission to skeptics to be amicable with a tyrannical foreign policy in the Middle East. I think Tyson is a good guy, Harris and Hitchens not so much, but they are all perpetuating misinformation about the nature of conflicts we deem the cause of to be religion, and not human nature itself. There is an arrogance and certainty among fundamentalists I find repulsive- among believers or among this new outspoken fundamental secularism that is only promoted by the mainstream media to facilitate the demonization of one fifth of the globe's population abroad while fomenting division here at home."
"New age atheism"?
Whatever happened to just "atheism"?
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 22, 2014, 03:33:03 PM
"New age atheism"?
Whatever happened to just "atheism"?
It has evolved.
Yeah, because that's worked out so well for Atheism+?
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 22, 2014, 06:08:02 PM
Yeah, because that's worked out so well for Atheism+?
Atheism + *shudder*
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 22, 2014, 06:08:02 PM
Yeah, because that's worked out so well for Atheism+?
It's still an active movement(it's website is still online). You'd be a fool to think that Neil deGrasse Tyson and his friends don't represent a more advanced branch of skeptical skeptics.
Haha Neil Degrasse Tyson.
What a wonky weirdo.
Is Atheism+ the Google+ of atheism?
Quote from: Cvalda on May 18, 2014, 04:20:07 AM
If anything can make you lose faith in a benevolent creator, it is this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbetapedia.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2FTekn0-8.jpg&hash=e50319076b0c3a9fa097c12d00c200fd328b56d3)
Oh Ralph and your wars of warcraft....
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 23, 2014, 12:13:57 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 22, 2014, 06:08:02 PM
Yeah, because that's worked out so well for Atheism+?
It's still an active movement(it's website is still online). You'd be a fool to think that Neil deGrasse Tyson and his friends don't represent a more advanced branch of skeptical skeptics.
How much more advanced can you be? It's simple. You don't believe in God because God cannot be proven with empirical evidence so you defer to science. Neil just offers more evidence for the strengths of science. The core atheist beliefs haven't deviated from that.
It's kind of insulting to say "science did this" or "science did that".
Science is a methodology. It's people who do things.
It'd be like saying "Hey, see that Ikea bed? Yeah, the included instructions did that".
Science is the tool people use. Without it, people wouldn't have accomplished anything.
Ok...
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 15, 2014, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 15, 2014, 01:48:48 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPE4zaNN.jpg&hash=fa8c868ee7dfbd4042fbabdb407ab4a103102b29)
The point of this was what, exactly?
The point being that atheism is a gay thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuRcmPnSTM#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuRcmPnSTM#ws)
Quote from: BANE on May 23, 2014, 01:01:43 AM
Ok...
Well think about it. Science is only applying a name to phenomenon that has always existed. It's a tool we use. Had we not developed said tool, humans wouldn't have progressed in the world.
Though we have benefited from science that's not entirely accurate, unless you're a droid.
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 23, 2014, 01:17:25 AM
Quote from: BANE on May 23, 2014, 01:01:43 AM
Ok...
Well think about it. Science is only applying a name to phenomenon that has always existed. It's a tool we use. Had we not developed said tool, humans wouldn't have progressed in the world.
But it's useless without the innovative, inspired and diligent minds who use it.
Like a hammer. Or a set of Ikea bed instructions.
So why credit the tool?
Because without the tool, the bed wouldn't have been built.
This is why I try not to misuse the word Atheist. It gets enough misrepresentation from both the willfully and genuinely ignorant.
Atheism = lack of belief in a God. There, someone has to restate it ever 3 or 4 pages, but that's what Atheism is. That can mean a rejection of God (God is not real) or a mere lack of belief (I'm not sure). Atheism has absolutely zero stance on anything other then this one issue.
To say Niel Degrasse Tyson is an 'advanced Atheist' because he has more to say on the matter is like saying chocolate milk is an 'advanced milk' because there's more then just milk in it.
Most of the time when someone misuses the word Atheist, they really mean Humanist, Naturalist, or just Skeptic.
Speaking of hammers...
I have dubbed him Hammer of God (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/20/calif-man-says-the-lord-grabbed-him-and-compelled-him-to-attack-a-kid-on-a-skateboard/)
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 23, 2014, 01:17:25 AM
Quote from: BANE on May 23, 2014, 01:01:43 AM
Ok...
Well think about it. Science is only applying a name to phenomenon that has always existed. It's a tool we use. Had we not developed said tool, humans wouldn't have progressed in the world.
That's not what science is. Science is the study of phenomenon. It isn't
the phenomenon.
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 23, 2014, 01:40:08 AM
Because without the tool, the bed wouldn't have been built.
Without the mind, there would be no tool... :P
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 23, 2014, 01:40:08 AM
Because without the tool, the bed wouldn't have been built.
You don't understand.
Noone ever understands.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myconfinedspace.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F09%2Fsuperman-suicide.gif&hash=81fb2d55c8e4fdc319ac307adecb7fb6b5d86236)
I think you guys are looking at it wrong. Instead of trying to figure out which spawned the other (was it the science or the science guy?), doesn't it make more sense that they are two parts of one thing? Humans make sense of the world, and they are always trying to make that task easier. The scientific method is the inevitable result of that.
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 23, 2014, 02:02:59 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 23, 2014, 01:17:25 AM
Quote from: BANE on May 23, 2014, 01:01:43 AM
Ok...
Well think about it. Science is only applying a name to phenomenon that has always existed. It's a tool we use. Had we not developed said tool, humans wouldn't have progressed in the world.
That's not what science is. Science is the study of phenomenon. It isn't the phenomenon.
Yes, hence why I said it's the tool we use. For example, science didn't discover gravity necessarily, as gravity itself has been around since the dawn the time. Science just allowed us to give it a name.
No it didn't.
A person gave it a name. Newton.
Human achievement tends to be the work of a person though. Newton did it, yes, but he did it through science.
So? It's still people.
Yes, but your limiting things far too much. It's like saying oh, no, the first car wasn't made via engineering, a guy did it.
Yeah. A guy did do it. Using his ingenuity to further and bring to life engineering principles.
So why then would I give credit to engineering? "Look, see this car? Look what engineering can do". No. It's human ingenuity, devotion and hard work using engineering.
"Oh look, Biology discovered Penicillin! And hey: vaccines are developed by science! My cancer was treated by science. Oh, and I'm alive today because my mom and dad engaged in science".
Science is the application of the scientific method in the study of different things. This method was created by people and is used by people.
I don't understand why you object to that. Isn't saying 'medicine saved me' also including the doctor?
Medicine as in the field of study or actual medicine (like pills and vaccines and such)?
Let me try again.
"Medical science saved my life"
To me, this encompasses both the practice of medicine, and the human beings involved in it, as the former cannot happen without the latter.
So when someone says "Isn't science great", that extends to Scientists, not just the scientific method. I assume you see it differently?
I think it's too dehumanizing to say "science is the reason for this accomplishment". I mean, I'm glad you see it as including scientists as well, but it just doesn't sound like it to me. Science itself is as useless as a screwdriver without intelligent, innovative and dedicated people to use it in making discoveries (basic science) and creating useful things from it (applied science).
I don't know, I just hear alot of scientists preaching how great science is, when it's really the people who are great. A tool is only as great as what you use it for.
It might sound dehumanizing, but can science ever really be a thing without a thinking creature applying it? I find it stranger to refer to science and NOT include the human element.
Can anything we've invented be a thing without a thinking creature applying it?
Although you make a good point.
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 23, 2014, 12:53:14 AM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 23, 2014, 12:13:57 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 22, 2014, 06:08:02 PM
Yeah, because that's worked out so well for Atheism+?
It's still an active movement(it's website is still online). You'd be a fool to think that Neil deGrasse Tyson and his friends don't represent a more advanced branch of skeptical skeptics.
How much more advanced can you be? It's simple. You don't believe in God because God cannot be proven with empirical evidence so you defer to science. Neil just offers more evidence for the strengths of science. The core atheist beliefs haven't deviated from that.
As far as combating religion peacefully and rationally, NdGT seems to have something good going on. Rational society looks down on atheists who wish to give religion a taste of their own medicine. This new atheism...I like it! ANOTHER!
Remember a while ago you wanted people to shout at the God Hates Fags guys, because they were shouting? And before that you wanted to restrict Middle Eastern people from entering The States, because 'we can't trust them?'
Making people taste their own medicine isn't the most effective way to move forward.
Quote from: Sabby on May 23, 2014, 01:52:48 PM
Remember a while ago you wanted people to shout at the God Hates Fags guys, because they were shouting? And before that you wanted to restrict Middle Eastern people from entering The States, because 'we can't trust them?'
Making people taste their own medicine isn't the most effective way to move forward.
if the Vatican were to be "removed" via the same methods the church has been using against non-conformers for centuries;The results of a free world ridden of the worlds most evil religion would be felt immediately.
No, we'd have a society run by thugs who think the ends justify the means.
I think that's called anarchy.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 23, 2014, 02:35:34 PM
Quote from: Sabby on May 23, 2014, 01:52:48 PM
Remember a while ago you wanted people to shout at the God Hates Fags guys, because they were shouting? And before that you wanted to restrict Middle Eastern people from entering The States, because 'we can't trust them?'
Making people taste their own medicine isn't the most effective way to move forward.
if the Vatican were to be "removed" via the same methods the church has been using against non-conformers for centuries;The results of a free world ridden of the worlds most evil religion would be felt immediately.
Haha you're as war mongering as they come.
Quote from: maledoro on May 19, 2014, 12:51:06 PM
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/p296x100/10401484_1189758391111862_722453118747904557_n.jpg
We going satanist now :laugh:
Satan is a Christian... so basically I fail to see the difference.
Quote from: BANE on May 23, 2014, 03:39:21 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 23, 2014, 02:35:34 PM
Quote from: Sabby on May 23, 2014, 01:52:48 PM
Remember a while ago you wanted people to shout at the God Hates Fags guys, because they were shouting? And before that you wanted to restrict Middle Eastern people from entering The States, because 'we can't trust them?'
Making people taste their own medicine isn't the most effective way to move forward.
if the Vatican were to be "removed" via the same methods the church has been using against non-conformers for centuries;The results of a free world ridden of the worlds most evil religion would be felt immediately.
Haha you're as war mongering as they come.
Yep. Someone should explain prohibition to him and how that didn't cure the nations alcoholism. :P
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 23, 2014, 10:08:08 PM
Quote from: BANE on May 23, 2014, 03:39:21 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on May 23, 2014, 02:35:34 PM
Quote from: Sabby on May 23, 2014, 01:52:48 PM
Remember a while ago you wanted people to shout at the God Hates Fags guys, because they were shouting? And before that you wanted to restrict Middle Eastern people from entering The States, because 'we can't trust them?'
Making people taste their own medicine isn't the most effective way to move forward.
if the Vatican were to be "removed" via the same methods the church has been using against non-conformers for centuries;The results of a free world ridden of the worlds most evil religion would be felt immediately.
Haha you're as war mongering as they come.
Yep. Someone should explain prohibition to him and how that didn't cure the nations alcoholism. :P
Canadian booze FTW!
And how is Satan a Christian?
does this mean satanism is now a branch of christianity
Quote from: SiL on May 24, 2014, 12:10:35 AM
And how is Satan a Christian?
Perhaps he means he's a Christian idea.
He's not even that.
I didn't say it was correct, I just don't see what else he could mean.
It was just something funny I saw on an image so I posted it.
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 24, 2014, 01:38:11 AM
It was just something funny I saw on an image so I posted it.
.... ???
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.comicvine.com%2Fuploads%2Foriginal%2F8%2F80778%2F1859436-omen_iii_the_final_conflict.jpg&hash=c6252d0be483a1a0c033c934c6f2fbb726dd73cc)
"Sorry, can't do Sunday brunch - I'll be at church."
mfw I entered this topic
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Falpha.fdu.edu%2F%7Edarrellc%2Fmidterm%2Fpictures%2Fmilton_looks.jpg&hash=c829ed68f0e9826340eb7e2bf712ebb21d600bae)
I'll bite. I have some knowledge on these matters.
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 06, 2014, 10:27:51 PM
You're not supposed to judge others and love them? Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
First, it's more important why you judge than if you judge.
Second, it depends on you what you mean by "judging": are you judging based on a reaction (because of the ego)? That's the kind of judgement that serves to tell us
things about our selves, rather than others. A better word for the judgement truly made on others is called
discernment.
Thirdly, if you attempt to make no judgements (either because you believe it's better not to judge, or you don't want to react), you limit personal growth and enter a state of indifference. Bonus: it's the ego in both cases that causes a person to judge out of reaction or become indifferent.
Quote from: Aspie on May 06, 2014, 06:22:38 PM
I always assumed that Christianity was a coping mechanism.
It can be. So can atheism. So can agnosticism.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on May 06, 2014, 01:35:57 PM
Greetings, as a secularist, I think all the jokes on behalf of fellow atheists lies with the fact that there is an understanding that what makes a person feel good, such as a faith, does not automatically equate to truth.
Exactly right. The trick is to align your beliefs with truth without limiting your perception of truth.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on May 06, 2014, 01:35:57 PM
That, and the fact that those of faith insist on being respected give atheists more reason to do the opposite.
That's free will at work.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on May 06, 2014, 01:35:57 PMAs it stands Christianity is a hiccup in the annals of human history, so I at least, see it for what it is, which for the time being, is quite an influential phenomenon, but rest assured in time, your faith will be completely overwritten by human intellect. This is not a jab, but a mere statement about all belief systems that require supernatural acceptance.
Indeed, anything that meets the common definition of supernatural doesn't exist in any sense. The difference between the supernatural, and false beliefs are, that the former goes outside the underlying rules and laws of the universe, whereas the latter are simply distortions or aberrations of the underlying laws.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on May 06, 2014, 01:35:57 PM
Enjoy your moment, but do not hope or insist upon respect from those who have no need for faith. There are plenty of ways to find personal solace that don't require faith. They may seem cold, they may seem sad to a person of god, even unfathomable, but that is to be expected. For example, I love my son, he is my world, but I understand that I feel this way as a direct biological imperative to keep him alive to spread my genetic code further. If I didn't love him, love being defined as deep affection and compassion for a person, he would be neglected and thusly, while his survival would not assuredly come to an end, it would have a higher probability of doing so. Just because I know why I am designed to love him does not diminish said affection.
If not faith, what would you call your conviction in this reasoning?
Quote from: Mr. Sin on May 06, 2014, 01:35:57 PM
Another example: I grieve over dead loved ones, but need not think I will ever see them again, just as when I die, I'm aware that I'll never know my wife's kiss, my sons smile, or the warmth of human bonds. Rest assured this fact keeps me up many nights despite genetic evidence on a hereditary level that suggests I will live into my 90s... Be that as it may, my inevitable non existence frightens and saddens me, but I would not be so scared as to diminish the splendor of sentient existence by hoping in afterlife. To me, andyself only, as I speak for nobody, it's a craven thought which diminishes our ability to absorb all the splendor this world has to offer. I will die. I will never exist again, and I'm thankful to have been born with the ability to feel all the emotions I have ever known precisely because I know they will not last.
Even after every particle of matter in this universe has decayed, there will invariably be something different because of the choices you made, and in this sense, you will still exist, in another state of being.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on May 06, 2014, 01:35:57 PM
Faith, for myself, is a fascinating mechanism, and I can appreciate when it comforts a person, I just don't need that comfort because I understand, personally, that humans aren't supposed to feel happy all the time. Sorrow is just as magnificent as joy, especially when I consider the statistical probability that granted my formation.
I hope this message finds ALL people well.
Faith is not intended to narrow the experience of life, quite the opposite. By the way, it was mathematically demonstrated (assuming the age estimates of the universe are correct) that for whatever reason, the universe is much more adept at manifesting life than a truly random process. It's estimated that if random, it would take take millions of times the age of the universe to spawn just one single celled organism.
Quote from: Chronicle on May 06, 2014, 12:20:50 AM
Whats your opinion on your faith opposed to other religions who also have a highpower within their beliefs?
Many paths; all attempts to find the one road that doesn't go in circles.
Quote from: Chronicle on May 06, 2014, 12:20:50 AM
How do you think God should be worshiped or your higherpower?
One cannot worship god without having worshiped one's self. The hope for all life, and truth itself, is transcendence. I won't go into detail now, but I believe in free will, karma, and reincarnation...things that open up a lot of possibilities.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on May 24, 2014, 10:34:01 PM
One cannot worship god without having worshiped one's self. The hope for all life, and truth itself, is transcendence.
I will Paypal you 20 dollars if you can explain what that means.
And how is atheism a coping mechanism?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F37.media.tumblr.com%2Fd8f5633612d214f5e1aecd5205518278%2Ftumblr_n64c70gF4V1r7gbhio1_1280.jpg&hash=937b5b26c4f455907ad2b74761d4ccb9b64f4859)
Genius.
Kangarroz r so inspirational omg
Quote from: Cvalda on May 25, 2014, 02:44:52 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F37.media.tumblr.com%2Fd8f5633612d214f5e1aecd5205518278%2Ftumblr_n64c70gF4V1r7gbhio1_1280.jpg&hash=937b5b26c4f455907ad2b74761d4ccb9b64f4859)
Repeat for Koalas, wombats, echidnas, platypuses...
Noahs ark was really just a alien DNA bank of all creatures. Able to be replaced at will and anywhere at the aliens leisure. Truefax.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mjmGbfyPPU#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mjmGbfyPPU#ws)
There's a perfectly logical explanation for how they got to Australia.
:laugh: volcano catapults omg
BOW TO JEEBUS
Quote from: Cvalda on May 25, 2014, 02:44:52 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F37.media.tumblr.com%2Fd8f5633612d214f5e1aecd5205518278%2Ftumblr_n64c70gF4V1r7gbhio1_1280.jpg&hash=937b5b26c4f455907ad2b74761d4ccb9b64f4859)
Power of the Lord, Cvalda. How dare you question it.
Quote from: Vickers on May 24, 2014, 10:39:48 PM
And how is atheism a coping mechanism?
It
can be.
Atheism can be a coping mechanism because people chose to make it a part of atheism. This is in the same sense many choose to make Christianity a religion of guilt and suffering. Both labels are more than their face value. Some will claim they're atheist or christian while having others say they're not (this is seen a lot with Muslims arguing over who is and isn't actually following Islam).
I will touch up on denial below later in this post. As for coping, it can be argued that we're all coping, but I don't argue this, simply it could be argued.
Quote from: Sabby on May 24, 2014, 10:37:37 PM
I will Paypal you 20 dollars if you can explain what that means.
QuoteOne cannot worship god without having worshiped one's self.
We all come from the same source, thus, we're all a piece of that source. We can trace back a chain, or a flow, that leads from now to then. For us, we're all made of variations of the same organic matter, arising due to conditions on Earth making it possible. Earth formed from the kind of matter created in stars. Those stars formed out of hydrogen, which formed of other particles, and so on, until it all originated from one point of energy. Moving forwards, we can say that the universe has made itself more complex since then, and will continue do so until it will actually be less comprehensible than it already is, unless we, ourselves, become more complex with it.
This is a cut down derivative of Constructal Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructal_law)
It was highlighted on
Through the wormhole (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMYr-H70VYo)
Constructal theory is not limited to physical structures, what we perceive, or even our awareness. Among other things, it integrates with time and un/conscious decisions.
Here is one example:
A man may allow an aversion to certain skin colors decide the way he moves through the world over the course of his life. This is comparable to a tree not allowing its roots to search for areas with greatest access to water and nutrients near the roots of other trees. Regardless of how big the tree grows, it is responsible for limiting its flow.
It can then be said that by changing the flow of energy through time, one can manipulate the propagation of a given energy pattern.
Usually people aren't fully aware of why they behave as they do, especially if they want to change their behavior. Some people are mystified by their actions (these are good candidates for therapy, sometimes even medication), others experience subconscious denial (which can be thought of as an adaptation disorder, something usually unresolved early in life, and has a poorer prognosis in therapy). What's interesting about this in particular is that the brain can dramatically alter itself to accommodate denial. Eventually the very structure of the brain (as seen in imaging studies on people diagnosed with personality disorders) can dedicate a measurable part of itself to more effectively blocking the things it's not willing to accept. Atheism can be a coping mechanism for the same reason Christianity can---a negative association has become ingrained in the psyche. If it is severe enough, it can manifest physically, effectively crippling a person until it's resolved. Going back to constructal theory, one can say that social influences originating from the thoughts of one person can alter the flow of energy in many. Denial (as a part of the ego) can convince a person this hasn't happened, but it's inescapable, so then it becomes a task of identifying how an influence has affected one's self.
Many atheists have already begun to do this by recognizing the logical fallacies presented to them. In a lot of cases, it is one person allowing the misguided behaviors and misinterpretations of others to become reason enough to completely turn themselves away from any of it. The equivalent in science is being unwilling to do an experiment because something "couldn't possibly be possible."
Agnostics differ in that they unknowingly limit what they think god can be as a means of blinding themselves to evidence of god's existence. Again, the equivalent is a failed experiment, but this time due to being unwilling to alter certain parameters.
A third scenario is indifference. The experiment is simply slowed to a crawl. People can call themselves all kinds of things and fall here.
In any case, labels matter very little, and shouldn't be relied upon for complex issues unless a quick and dirty transfer of understanding is desired. By telling you I have faith, I'm telling you to now attribute everything you attribute to having faith, on to me. If it isn't obvious living in this world, letting people fill in blanks about you can have mixed results. Many people cannot see why they continue to get the reactions they do.
QuoteThe hope for all life, and truth itself, is transcendence.
"Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death" -Albert Einstein
Because of mass-energy equivalence (meaning we're a collage of energy) and because of conservation of energy (it can't be destroyed), lack of brain activity at death means the energy that was driving all functionality, including consciousness, has simply diffused, relative to the world we perceive. At conception, it's the opposite. Relative to its source, this energy converges into a very dense space which enables it to form a new perspective. This can be considered a periodic expansion and contraction. The universe itself does this, what is referred to as the "big crunch." It is
because energy cannot be added or destroyed that our universe cannot runaway with it's energy content, so the statement, "if the universe were to expand forever, it could not end, thus it could not have begun" is true. Fundamental laws, and they do exist, govern the smallest and largest things alike.
Science acknowledges an imbalance is why we exist----why there was not an equal amount of matter to antimatter, or why I'm saying expansion and contraction never stop the other from occurring again. This is because the strongest forces of nature are not opposing; they are complementary, meaning the expansion and contraction cycles only make eachother greater.
The majority of the universe cannot yet be perceived, but because it is still energy, it still interacts with the energy we do see, and still contributes to the total mass of the universe (causing gravitational anomalies where there is seemingly nothing).
To reverse the flow of time, one has to overcome the momentum of time, which is to make complementary forces non-complementary. In this sense, all that is will be undone, until the polarity of reality inverts, at which point the elements that constitute complementary forces have merely been redefined, making the whole act redundant. Visualize the pendulum of a grandfather clock. At rest (perpendicular to the floor) it is in perfect balance. Because of equal and opposite reactions, the momentum of "undoing" all that is will inexorably pass into a newly defined phase of "doing." To get around this, to progress, the pendulum behaves more like a screw, spiraling deeper and deeper, becoming ever more than it was. When it's time to contract again, it slams inward on itself reconfiguring everything into a state of even more potential.
Einstein expressed that he thought freewill is an illusion. The problem with this thinking is that the issue is not binary all or nothing. Choices determine availability of choices. When something appears to have very little choice by no fault of anyone, that is actually you making a choice to see it that way. And yes, people can take away choices from one another, as that's their choice. The important thing is growth despite what has happened.
Now to address Christianity
Jesus knew that his actions and teachings were limited by the state of the world at the time . He also knew that to help the future generations the most, he would have to focus on his present (since the future isn't set). Jesus became known as the son of god because he had a profound understanding of his relationship with god. It's more accurate to say that he is
a son of god, than
the son, as the latter begs the question: the son of god that did what?
I will tell you. This planet is one of spiritual and transcendental constipation. Jesus discovered his potential as a laxative and prescribed himself for the benefit of all. What resulted were a few lumps of hard stool, but rest assured more laxatives are in development. Just don't expect shit to stop stinking anytime soon.
The reason god won't do things for us is the same reason you don't tell a musician how to compose his work or when he's done working. We are key, note, composition, and composer in a cosmic symphony. As part of this symphony, there are roles we can play based on the choices we are capable of seeing, determined by our awareness.
An effective way to change one's self is understanding a simple hierarchy of the psyche.
To change one's emotions, one must change their thoughts. To change one's thoughts, one must change their sense of identity, and this is done by realizing A, the things you no longer identify with, and B, that you are more than any single thing you could ever claim to be.
Quote from: KNIGHT on Feb 22, 2013, 09:03:00 PM
But Rick, it's not bullshit.
He is giving us the key to our future. He it learning us the ways of the stars.
We are simply not ready for what he is saying.
...No, wait, you're right, it's all bullshit what the f**k am I even saying.
You have been learning the way of the stars your whole life.
Most don't know it.
Or should I say most have simply forgotten?
How did that wall of nonsense render your word salad comprehensible?
First of all, you need to explain what you mean by 'transcendence'. Then, you need to explain why it requires a complete rewiring of our emotional state. If you can manage all of that, then you need to explain why this is even a thing you'd want to/are capable of doing.
As it reads now, you're just using special sounding words. Otherwise known as woo.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fb1GK8WG.png&hash=f4f93c7b08f8ec0bdde6840fd0cc43da3691623d)
I know it's too small, so here's the full sized link.
http://i.imgur.com/b1GK8WG.png (http://i.imgur.com/b1GK8WG.png)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2Fn4z5ar.png&hash=045bcd47e333a65f7b5f6de632af06f170f4ed7b)
And so is Christianity.
You leave John Titor out of this.
No, I'm 100% certain that's real.
Quote from: Sabby on May 26, 2014, 02:48:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mjmGbfyPPU#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mjmGbfyPPU#ws)
There's a perfectly logical explanation for how they got to Australia.
I decided to look at Conservapedia and feel dirty now.
I believe in Ragnarok. Your graph offends me.
This really made me laugh.
http://m.tickld.com/x/i-wish-this-man-was-my-father-hes-hilarious (http://m.tickld.com/x/i-wish-this-man-was-my-father-hes-hilarious)
Thanks for that Doom, I laughed so hard I actually pissed myself a bit -.-
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 29, 2014, 04:55:06 PM
This really made me laugh.
http://m.tickld.com/x/i-wish-this-man-was-my-father-hes-hilarious (http://m.tickld.com/x/i-wish-this-man-was-my-father-hes-hilarious)
Funny yes but that school clergyman is a bit of a jerk. Atheism is great. Wonder how many boys the school chaplain has touched?
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/28/florida-woman-accused-of-killing-2-year-old-while-re-enacting-bible-story/ (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/28/florida-woman-accused-of-killing-2-year-old-while-re-enacting-bible-story/)
Not at all surprised the c**t can't type coherently.
Really digging how this has slowly just become a religion/Christianity bashing thread.
Hey, I defended this space in the beginning :P Seems the alternative to what you see now is a dead thread.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on May 29, 2014, 11:18:46 PM
Really digging how this has slowly just become a religion/Christianity bashing thread.
If by "slowly" you mean it starting on page 1.
Christianity bashing began the moment it was created....
Quote from: JokersWarPig on May 29, 2014, 11:18:46 PM
Really digging how this has slowly just become a religion/Christianity bashing thread.
I know, right?
Atheists of AVPG: "Hey, the Christians have made their own thread! Let's go make fun of their religion in there because having a whole other thread to do it isn't enough!"
As has been stated before, it has been like this from the first page. Any thread about UFOs, Christianity, conspiracy theories or anything else without solid evidence is bound to get torn to shreds.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/30/virginia-atheist-couple-court-appointed-officiant-told-us-we-had-no-right-to-get-married/ (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/30/virginia-atheist-couple-court-appointed-officiant-told-us-we-had-no-right-to-get-married/)
Yeah.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on May 30, 2014, 06:07:36 PMAtheists of AVPG: "Hey, the Christians have made their own thread! Let's go make fun of their religion in there because having a whole other thread to do it isn't enough!"
What goes around comes around.
Well I love Christmas.
Quote from: Sabby on May 27, 2014, 01:08:51 AM
How did that wall of nonsense render your word salad comprehensible?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrixresolutions.com%2Fimg%2Farchitect2.jpg&hash=4ffa0945d305568242a07db49e1614b0cde494c3)
Hmm, that was quicker than the others.
Quote from: Sabby on May 27, 2014, 01:08:51 AM
First of all, you need to explain what you mean by 'transcendence'.
Why not tell me what you think it means? I can hardly hit a target that isn't revealed.
Quote from: Sabby on May 27, 2014, 01:08:51 AM
Then, you need to explain why it requires a complete rewiring of our emotional state. If you can manage all of that, then you need to explain why this is even a thing you'd want to/are capable of doing.
Complete rewiring? A better visualization is the untangling of a mess.
Completely changing the emotional state? Only change what you recognize you want to change.
Why change is required to transcend? To transcend IS to change.
Why the emotional state is particularly crucial to transcendence? For the same reason anger is pivotal to many prison sentences.
Why an understanding of one's self is crucial to change one's self? For the same reason understanding the world is crucial to changing it.
Why do we manipulate the world? To manipulate ourselves.
Why we don't manipulate ourselves directly? Because most are not ready to accept that level of responsibility (so they go outside themselves to change indirectly).
Quote from: Sabby on May 27, 2014, 01:08:51 AM
As it reads now, you're just using special sounding words. Otherwise known as woo.
This is why I do not see only what I see, hear only what I hear, or feel only what I feel.
_________________
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freligionpoisons.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F02%2Fimageschristianity.jpg&hash=d0e653059a03f0ec12f63c5ab31f9378334ea070)
This is what happens when you stargaze with a pinhole camera.
Quote from: Vickers on May 30, 2014, 06:15:09 PM
As has been stated before, it has been like this from the first page. Any thread about UFOs, Christianity, conspiracy theories or anything else without solid evidence is bound to get torn to shreds.
What is evidence?
Evidently most don't know.
Anyone can tell themselves they're in a computer simulation, then invent their own rules for how the 'real' world works outside this one, and say it is a fact. Yes, new facts have now been established,
in their head, and science can only tell them they have an untestable hypothesis, not that they're wrong.
My point is, people employ science as a means to prove to themselves what is and isn't real. Like I said above, we manipulate the world to manipulate ourselves. You can think of scientific experimentation as flapping a Polaroid that took an image of reality to make it develop faster, and the results are proportional to our efforts.
Most acknowledge science reflects what is greater than us.....greater defined in every sense, what is bigger, what we cannot [currently] change, etc...Like I eluded to above, people don't equate this with god because they allow social influence to chain their understanding of what god is to what people thought he was in the dark ages. This is so powerful, god for some people cannot be processed without a myriad of false, toxic, and unoriginal associations firing.
Science is the greatest tool for the binary mind, and the lowest bar anyone should be sitting on top of in this day and age. Still, people reject science. These are the people that choose the blue pill over and over. Regarding the red pill, the rabbit hole is only as deep as you dig it.
_____________
I watched the video posted here titled "Why do people laugh at creationists." I spent several days watching all 42 in the series, then I watched about 50 more on Islam and feminism.
I admit I found them fascinating because I've been ignorant to how ignorant other people really are. I've known the world is full of batshit insanity, but his channel is a great highlight reel. "Thunderf00t, seeing through delusion" is a perfect description of what he's doing.
The issue I see is that people might equate any sense of god with delusion....well, if your sense of god has been defined by society or religion, then you would be right to equate it with delusion. But for those who take it upon themselves to know god personally, it is not delusion or mere belief.
I sense confusion about why I'm posting in this topic. I did not come here to enlighten; I came to be enlightened.
I asked you what transcendence means. You spoke about it before, so clearly you have a meaning for it. What I think it means is irrelevant to what you are trying to convey to us.
Quote from: Sabby on May 31, 2014, 04:44:17 AM
clearly you have a meaning for it.
Then you don't understand what I've been saying at all. I've let go of what I thought it was, and continue to do so.
Quote from: Sabby on May 31, 2014, 04:44:17 AM
What I think it means is irrelevant to what you are trying to convey to us.
How did you determine that?
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on May 31, 2014, 06:33:21 PM
Quote from: Sabby on May 31, 2014, 04:44:17 AM
clearly you have a meaning for it.
Then you don't understand what I've been saying at all. I've let go of what I thought it was, and continue to do so.
Are you saying that you're using words that have absolutely no meaning for you?
Quote
Quote from: Sabby on May 31, 2014, 04:44:17 AM
What I think it means is irrelevant to what you are trying to convey to us.
How did you determine that?
Um... because you're trying to tell people something. You are speaking. You have something to say. The message you are imparting comes from you, not the person your talking to... it's astounding I have to explain this.
What is it with woo peddlers being completely incapable of writing a coherent paragraph?
Quote from: Sabby on May 31, 2014, 06:39:30 PM
Are you saying that you're using words that have absolutely no meaning for you?
You're getting caught up the word transcendence, just as people get caught up on the word god. My understanding of both make it very difficult, if not futile, to attempt to describe them in words, and the reason for that is because it's
so personal. This is exactly why I said you cannot let social influences factor in to your understanding of them.
I'm not using words that have absolutely no meaning, I'm using words that cannot be given significant meaning by means of using other words.
Quote from: Sabby on May 31, 2014, 04:44:17 AM
What I think it means is irrelevant to what you are trying to convey to us.
QuoteHow did you determine that?
Um... because you're trying to tell people something. You are speaking. You have something to say. The message you are imparting comes from you, not the person your talking to... it's astounding I have to explain this.
Clearly you want something or you wouldn't still be posting here. I asked you what you thought it meant for the same reason a school would test a person to determine where to place them. If you're not willing to provide any thought on the matter then you will receive none. I wanted to know how you determined that your understanding of transcendence could not benefit by putting it out in the open for examination.
Quote from: Sabby on May 31, 2014, 06:39:30 PM
What is it with woo peddlers being completely incapable of writing a coherent paragraph?
I'm not peddling anything. Entering this topic is voluntary, reading any of the posts is voluntary, responding to them, voluntary. Now, If I appeared on a TV commercial, or rang your doorbell, that would be peddling.
The only thing I was trying to do was provoke thought, even if that meant I turned out to be the only one benefiting from this. If you could not extract any meaning or sense at all from the walls of text I've written, then this is neither the time nor the place.
I'll continue to read and reply to anything you have to say, but if it becomes a circular or semantic argument, then my efforts will go back to writing more walls of text.
Yeah, I call bullshit that you can't explain this stuff. No one experiences anything that is beyond a decent attempt at conveyance. You used a word, I asked you to define it, and you devolved into nonsense and distraction. It just feels like you're talking woo and aren't capable of wording yourself in a more direct way.
@Sabby, you make too many assumptions, and until you offer something to ponder, this will not go anywhere.
The only bullshit here is your expectations of me.
My expectations of you is that you speak plainly and elaborate when asked. That's not an unfair expectation, it's just something us humans do as social creatures. You were asked a single, simple question. "Could you explain what you mean by that word, so I can understand what you mean?"
Instead of actually helping yourself and answering the question you avoided it and talked nonsense, and now you act as if my insistence on the matter is somehow a derailment of the conversation. Sorry, that's not how it works.
QuoteYou're getting caught up the word transcendence, just as people get caught up on the word god. My understanding of both make it very difficult, if not futile, to attempt to describe them in words, and the reason for that is because it's so personal.
Non-descript, special pleading garbage like this is exactly the reason I have to ask you to define the words your using and pin you down to clarify things. This doesn't make any kind of sense and is of no use to me. My inability to understand this word salad isn't because I lack your deep understanding, it's because it's word salad.
It's as if this whole thing has formed in your head in a very illogical and scattered way, so asking you to put some order to it just doesn't compute and you have to complicate things.
So I ask one more time, what do you mean when you say the word 'transcendent?' "What do you think it means?" and "It's too personal to use words for" are not valid answers.
If I avoided answering what transcendence was, that is because I was trying to demonstrate it, to see if it would get you past this idea of expecting anything at all from a person that said several posts back that they're only here to be enlightened.
My participation in this topic has only served to help myself. I'm not responsible for the choices others make. Again, your expectations blind you.
Can you answer the question or not?
Quote from: Sabby on May 31, 2014, 08:20:49 PM
Can you answer the question or not?
You f**ked in the head, mate?
Quote from: Sabby on May 31, 2014, 08:20:49 PM
Can you answer the question or not?
Sabby, I cannot answer anything when what constitutes an answer is defined to exclude the answers I give. I have nothing more to say on this.
Typical.
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 31, 2014, 08:25:50 PM
Quote from: Sabby on May 31, 2014, 08:20:49 PM
Can you answer the question or not?
You f**ked in the head, mate?
Quote- Be Nice & Respecful. Be nice to other members. While a forum is for debating issues, just plain insulting people will not be tolerated.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=3.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=3.0)
One more and your ability to post will be removed.
On that note, I will take the chance to apologize for being irritable Xeno. I was genuinely frustrated, but I could have conveyed myself more respectfully, so you have my apologies.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 31, 2014, 09:19:50 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on May 31, 2014, 08:25:50 PM
Quote from: Sabby on May 31, 2014, 08:20:49 PM
Can you answer the question or not?
You f**ked in the head, mate?
Quote- Be Nice & Respecful. Be nice to other members. While a forum is for debating issues, just plain insulting people will not be tolerated.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=3.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=3.0)
One more and your ability to post will be removed.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F555HK4U.jpg&hash=55630795d9481d4ac9531ad666e362ea355ef85c)
LOL, until now the threats come in. Might as well have just done what has been done before, just lock the thread.
Quote from: ShadowPred on May 31, 2014, 11:02:13 PM
LOL, until now the threats come in. Might as well have just done what has been done before, just lock the thread.
Hey, some of us like lurking in the shadows. Locking threads hurts the innocent!
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jun 01, 2014, 12:17:17 AM
Quote from: ShadowPred on May 31, 2014, 11:02:13 PM
LOL, until now the threats come in. Might as well have just done what has been done before, just lock the thread.
Hey, some of us like lurking in the shadows. Locking threads hurts the innocent!
Zlol, no innocent be lurking these parts.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Jun 01, 2014, 12:26:05 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jun 01, 2014, 12:17:17 AM
Quote from: ShadowPred on May 31, 2014, 11:02:13 PM
LOL, until now the threats come in. Might as well have just done what has been done before, just lock the thread.
Hey, some of us like lurking in the shadows. Locking threads hurts the innocent!
Zlol, no innocent be lurking these parts.
It was a figure of speech.
Much like how god is a figment of many peoples imaginations.
Hey now calm down man, we all live in a world of imagined things.
Quote from: ShadowPred on May 31, 2014, 11:02:13 PM
LOL, until now the threats come in. Might as well have just done what has been done before, just lock the thread.
YES. PLEASE.
Threads bordering on offensive at this point.
Same goes for Same Sex Marriage thread.
I gave up on that thread early on, immediately after Erik and Winter got into it.
So a few have gotten a little tipsy, this is still the most cordial conversation on religion I've seen in a long time.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-Gt7w4YQqo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-Gt7w4YQqo#)
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/05/29/son-of-pastor-who-died-from-snake-bite-nearly-dies-from-snake-bite/ (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/05/29/son-of-pastor-who-died-from-snake-bite-nearly-dies-from-snake-bite/)
God: "Hear ye my message: stay the f**k away from snakes."
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t1.0-9/1011984_702053226479772_1482281856_n.jpg)
While I was volunteering at the local animal shelter for their Christmas photo day, a woman was laughing at her silly dog being silly. I think her exact words were "Oh, bless him in the blood of Jesus"
I'm just standing there thinking... um... do you not feel a little crazy for saying that out loud in public? Then I look around and see I'm the only person who finds this to be anything other then socially acceptable.
Religious normality f**king worries me.
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 01, 2014, 09:57:07 PM
While I was volunteering at the local animal shelter for their Christmas photo day, a woman was laughing at her silly dog being silly. I think her exact words were "Oh, bless him in the blood of Jesus"
I'm just standing there thinking... um... do you not feel a little crazy for saying that out loud in public? Then I look around and see I'm the only person who finds this to be anything other then socially acceptable.
Religious normality f**king worries me.
It shouldn't. Who really gives a shit?
I suppose you're used to having blood ritual references thrown at you during your daily commute.
No, but I really wouldn't care.
As a social animal who depends on the cohesion of society in order to function, I very much care when craziness gets adopted by the masses :P
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F555HK4U.gif&hash=6e18cdf75890fd14a5e97fb4775e03142a763072)
f**king deal with it.
I guess if you grew up in a culture that focuses more on death than life, desiring to be covered in a scapegoat's blood is normal.
Can't we just have one big, enormous thread about theism and atheism, whatever the form?
This is basically the atheism thread, only it's titled 'Christianity' instead -- the OP's intentions with it have long gone.
Yeah, I'd like to see the threads merged.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Jun 01, 2014, 10:12:25 PM
Can't we just have one big, enormous thread about theism and atheism, whatever the form?
This is basically the atheism thread, only it's titled 'Christianity' instead -- the OP's intentions with it have long gone.
This. We need something like an ideology and beliefs thread.
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 01, 2014, 10:04:44 PM
As a social animal who depends on the cohesion of society in order to function
That is where you fail.
And I suppose you don't gain security, comfort, nourishment, entertainment and general opportunities from society? You produce all of that independently?
Like it or not, the health of society is as important to us as our own health.
Nope, nope, nope, nope and nope.
And where, might I ask, do you get those things from?
1) Security comes from my plethora of sharpened sticks I make after the city I live in randomly cuts branches off my front yard tree.
2) Comfort's easy to find anywhere. Leaves for gods' sake. Unless you're some pampered princess.
3) Food comes from squirrels, rabbits, deer and moose that are readily abundant where I live.
4) Entertainment I make myself. You don't have an imagination, or...?
5) Irrelevant given the other 4.
BOOM! Self sufficient.
Quote from: BANE on Jun 01, 2014, 10:31:51 PM
1) Security comes from my plethora of sharpened sticks I make after the city I work with randomly cuts branches off my front yard tree.
2) Comfort's easy to find anywhere. Leaves for gods' sake. Unless you're some pampered princess.
3) Food comes from squirrels, rabbits, deer and moose that are readily abundant where I live.
4) Entertainment I make myself. You don't have an imagination, or...?
5) Irrelevant given the other 4.
BOOM! Self sufficient.
And, of course, no one taught you how to do these things...
Nope.
Practice and trial and error.
Uh, huh.
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 01, 2014, 10:20:54 PM
And I suppose you don't gain security, comfort, nourishment, entertainment and general opportunities from society? You produce all of that independently?
Like it or not, the health of society is as important to us as our own health.
And yet, even with all of those crazies out there, the world continues to go round n' round. Strange.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jun 01, 2014, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 01, 2014, 10:20:54 PM
And I suppose you don't gain security, comfort, nourishment, entertainment and general opportunities from society? You produce all of that independently?
Like it or not, the health of society is as important to us as our own health.
And yet, even with all of those crazies out there, the world continues to go round n' round. Strange.
More like, "amazing". The world would go round n' round a lot more efficiently without them.
Quote from: maledoro on Jun 01, 2014, 10:36:43 PM
Uh, huh.
Mal, rest assured I'll save you when society crumbles.
You can use my sharpened sticks and have half the squirrels I catch. :)
Quote from: BANE on Jun 01, 2014, 10:42:32 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Jun 01, 2014, 10:36:43 PM
Uh, huh.
Mal, rest assured I'll save you when society crumbles.
You can use my sharpened sticks and have half the squirrels I catch. :)
Pass the ketchup; it's cracking at the seams.
Quote from: maledoro on Jun 01, 2014, 10:40:56 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jun 01, 2014, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 01, 2014, 10:20:54 PM
And I suppose you don't gain security, comfort, nourishment, entertainment and general opportunities from society? You produce all of that independently?
Like it or not, the health of society is as important to us as our own health.
And yet, even with all of those crazies out there, the world continues to go round n' round. Strange.
More like, "amazing". The world would go round n' round a lot more efficiently without them.
It's not amazing at all. Also, I never said that it wouldn't be more efficient. I'm just wondering why Sabby gives so many f**ks for one small remark.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jun 01, 2014, 10:49:58 PMIt's not amazing at all.
Yes, it really is.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jun 01, 2014, 10:49:58 PMAlso, I never said that it wouldn't be more efficient.
Nor did I say that you had said that.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jun 01, 2014, 10:49:58 PMI'm just wondering why Sabby gives so many f**ks for one small remark.
Unless you ask him yourself, my guess is high levels of testosterone.
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 01, 2014, 10:13:21 PM
Yeah, I'd like to see the threads merged.
I'd like to see the threads locked.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jun 01, 2014, 10:55:30 PMNot really.
I guess you're right. Some of the weirdos and crazies have been losing some of their influence over the centuries.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Jun 01, 2014, 10:56:38 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 01, 2014, 10:13:21 PMYeah, I'd like to see the threads merged.
I'd like to see the threads locked.
You could simply just not visit them.
Quote from: maledoro on Jun 01, 2014, 11:02:46 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jun 01, 2014, 10:55:30 PMNot really.
I guess you're right. Some of the weirdos and crazies have been losing some of their influence over the centuries.
Exactly. The world has been progressing in a quite logical manner.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jun 01, 2014, 11:03:54 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Jun 01, 2014, 11:02:46 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jun 01, 2014, 10:55:30 PMNot really.
I guess you're right. Some of the weirdos and crazies have been losing some of their influence over the centuries.
Exactly. The world has been progressing in a quite logical manner.
It could progress a little faster.
I don't really care all that much.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Quote from: maledoro on Jun 01, 2014, 11:02:46 PM
You could simply just not visit them.
So much idiocy has come from this thread, the atheism thread and the gay marriage thread that it would be a joy for me to see them locked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7m5VcpMCtU#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7m5VcpMCtU#ws)
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Jun 01, 2014, 11:07:58 PMSo much idiocy has come from this thread, the atheism thread and the gay marriage thread that it would be a joy for me to see them locked.
So you can't let us express ourselves in these venues? You're not the puritan who peeks in others' windows and wants them to stop, instead of walking to the other side of the street, are you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMXLAK6Ynfc#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMXLAK6Ynfc#ws)
Mal, everyone needs some way of enjoying life.
I'll enjoy it more when atheist troops storm the Vatican and imprison/execute the pope for war crimes against humanity.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Jun 02, 2014, 03:32:25 PM
I'll enjoy it more when atheist troops storm the Vatican and imprison/execute the pope for war crimes against humanity.
Can't wait till the same happens to you.
Kirkland, shut the hell up. Seriously, just shut the hell up.
This thread :laugh:
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Jun 02, 2014, 03:32:25 PM
I'll enjoy it more when atheist troops storm the Vatican and imprison/execute the pope for war crimes against humanity.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freplygif.net%2Fthumbnail%2F116.gif&hash=8bb6cb9304403df2d5676cc7871ff731cdb5c342)
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jun 02, 2014, 03:34:11 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Jun 02, 2014, 03:32:25 PM
I'll enjoy it more when atheist troops storm the Vatican and imprison/execute the pope for war crimes against humanity.
Can't wait till the same happens to you.
They'll need to get past my elite Praetorian corps composed of scantily clad male body guards first.
^ David Firth! :D
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Jun 02, 2014, 05:02:14 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jun 02, 2014, 03:34:11 PM
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Jun 02, 2014, 03:32:25 PM
I'll enjoy it more when atheist troops storm the Vatican and imprison/execute the pope for war crimes against humanity.
Can't wait till the same happens to you.
They'll need to get past my elite Praetorian corps composed of scantily clad male body guards first.
I'm sure the Holy warriors of the Vatican will be truly terrified by the glitter and colour coordination of your gay fortress. ::)
Quote from: maledoro on Jun 01, 2014, 11:13:55 PM
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Jun 01, 2014, 11:07:58 PMSo much idiocy has come from this thread, the atheism thread and the gay marriage thread that it would be a joy for me to see them locked.
So you can't let us express ourselves in these venues? You're not the puritan who peeks in others' windows and wants them to stop, instead of walking to the other side of the street, are you?
lawl, the butthurt.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Jun 02, 2014, 03:32:25 PM
I'll enjoy it more when atheist troops storm the Vatican and imprison/execute the pope for war crimes against humanity.
You're not being serious, are you?
This thread really just reinforces my dislike towards Atheists.
Kirkland more than others, but still most Atheists as a whole.
Out of curiosity which side brought the most hate to the gay marriage thread?
So one of you tars all atheists with the same brush, then the other tars all the christians.
Aren't we all so terribly enlightened...
Help me convert to Alienism, SM.
Monesvol Inquisition :D
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jun 02, 2014, 11:44:39 PM
Help me convert to Alienism, SM.
I will speak to the Revision Committee on your behalf, my son.
Thank you, m'lord.
Can't believe I have to explain this, but Atheism isn't a club with membership and rules :P It's more like herding cats. You'll see more division among Atheists then you will of Christians simply because the criteria for being an Atheist is pretty loose. So when an idiot like Kirkland demonstrates himself to be a hateful moron, probably not the smartest idea to deem all Atheists as hateful morons.
Just saying.
It doesn't need to be that complicated. If you don't believe in God, then you're likely an atheist. I say likely because not everyone wants a label, anymore than someone who believes in God wants to be labeled a Christian/Muslim/Jew, etc...
I've never understood that, myself. Whether someone likes a label or not seems irrelevant to me. I had this discussion with a friend the other day who isn't too interested in this stuff, but he was generally not okay with any of the labels. I asked him if he believes in a Deity. He answered no.
"Then you're an Atheist"
"But... I don't like that label"
"Tough"
Religion is like television. You have fanboys of various TV shows. Atheists choose not to turn on a TV and follow a show.
For Xtians who say that they are being painted with a broad brush, they are partially right. It depends on the paint. If they're all being painted as abortion clinic bombers, then yes, the brush is too broad. I they are being painted as people who believe in something without evidence, then the brush isn't too broad.
As for atheists who are all painted as wanting an end to religion, the brush is too broad. Most atheists do not want religion eradicated. When it comes to religion hurting its followers and those who do not follow, the broad brush it is.
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10338334_10152586858163132_3450782745914095828_n.jpg)
Quote from: maledoro on Jun 03, 2014, 12:22:18 PM
https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10338334_10152586858163132_3450782745914095828_n.jpg
The world's first recorded instance of anal fisting?
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 03, 2014, 11:20:31 AM
I've never understood that, myself. Whether someone likes a label or not seems irrelevant to me. I had this discussion with a friend the other day who isn't too interested in this stuff, but he was generally not okay with any of the labels. I asked him if he believes in a Deity. He answered no.
"Then you're an Atheist"
"But... I don't like that label"
"Tough"
Saying "tough" is just being a jackass. It's like when someone tells me, "You believe in equality? Oh, so you're a feminist."
My reply is "No, I'm not."
And they say, "Yes, you are."
And then I explain how the terms are not synonymous, at least in my mind. See the parallel?
No, those scenarios aren't the same at all. With my scenario, I'm literally asking "Are you an Atheist?" With your scenario, you're closer to asking "Are you an Egalitarian?" Egalitarian and Feminist are similar though, so I kind of understand what you mean, but here, there's really no other conclusion to my friends answer then "You are an Atheist". To your guys answer, you can spend all day arguing over whether it makes him/her a Feminist, Egalitarian, Humanist or any number of labels for someone who seeks the betterment of their fellow human beings.
Yes, saying 'tough' is a bit of a jackass thing to do, but... tough. If you don't believe in a Deity, you're an Atheist. How the label feels to you is irrelevant.
If you really need to separate yourself from it, slap an Apatheist label next to your Atheist label. The Atheist label is still guna be there, but at least you have a "I really don't care though" label to distance yourself from it.
Still not seeing it. Let's bring it back to Christianity.
"Are you a Christian?"
"No."
"Do you believe in God?"
"Yes."
"Then you're a Christian."
"No, I'm not."
It's the same thing for atheism. I almost feel like saying there's a difference between being atheist and being an atheist. In the former case, you don't believe in a deity whereas in the latter, you actively spread ideas about atheism.
Umm, what.
An atheist is an atheist. Plain and simple. You're an atheist if you don't believe in any deity/religion. Regardless of whether you make it public or not.
Just like some Christians actively spread the gospel while others keep their Christianity to themselves.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jun 03, 2014, 03:20:56 PM
Still not seeing it. Let's bring it back to Christianity.
"Are you a Christian?"
"No."
"Do you believe in God?"
"Yes."
"Then you're a Christian."
"No, I'm not."
It's the same thing for atheism. I almost feel like saying there's a difference between being atheist and being an atheist. In the former case, you don't believe in a deity whereas in the latter, you actively spread ideas about atheism.
Like?
Beyond not believing in a deity, it would seem to include trashing people who do.
Atheism is one stance on one question. There's no spectrum of beliefs.
Quote from: Dovahkiin on Jun 01, 2014, 11:07:58 PM
So much idiocy has come from this thread, the atheism thread and the gay marriage thread that it would be a joy for me to see them locked.
Well, I've said that such threads must be locked and deleted on sight but ::) They said lets create Christianity thread, it will be fun they said.
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 03, 2014, 08:45:59 AM
Can't believe I have to explain this, but Atheism isn't a club with membership and rules :P It's more like herding cats. You'll see more division among Atheists then you will of Christians simply because the criteria for being an Atheist is pretty loose. So when an idiot like Kirkland demonstrates himself to be a hateful moron, probably not the smartest idea to deem all Atheists as hateful morons.
Just saying.
You're absolutely right, but it doesn't negate the fact that most (if I use this thread as an example) choose to make fun of a persons beliefs and belittle them. I'm not upset from the standpoint that I choose to follow Catholicism, this thread upsets me because I don't find any joy in making fun of or belittling some thing that's as important to some as their religion, hence my original statement throwing all Atheists into one basket.
Importance to someone doesn't make something above criticism. People criticize things if they feel it doesn't make sense. What makes Christianity get the extra attention is the response ya get from criticizing it. And by 'it', I mean the beliefs themselves, the backlash comes from those who hold those beliefs and feel so inclined to respond. This isn't a topic that can be easily defended with rationality and sense, so of course passionately defending it is going to make you look silly.
I'm not trying to condone that behavior, as I feel it depends on the person your dealing with. But can you understand how defensive Christians sort of invite this upon themselves?
I mean, look at Scientology. Ya think people tear into them specifically because of their beliefs? No, people tear into Scientology because of how big they are in the public image and how they conduct themselves when criticized. They make themselves a target, is what I'm saying. If they were sensible and realistic, they wouldn't get the extra attention on top of simple criticism.
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Jun 03, 2014, 01:37:13 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Jun 03, 2014, 12:22:18 PM
https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10338334_10152586858163132_3450782745914095828_n.jpg
The world's first recorded instance of anal fisting?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.fjcdn.com%2Fcomments%2Frealvegzillar%2Brolled%2Bimage%2BWhoville%2Bwas%2Btaken%2BI%2Btake%2Bit%2B_1804fbb3af0070ac4e6a12bf8b982302.jpg&hash=62cb52370ca65a429cec50ae92bd80ad81f3fa32)
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jun 03, 2014, 03:20:56 PM
Still not seeing it. Let's bring it back to Christianity.
"Are you a Christian?"
"No."
"Do you believe in God?"
"Yes."
"Then you're a Christian."
"No, I'm not."
It's the same thing for atheism. I almost feel like saying there's a difference between being atheist and being an atheist. In the former case, you don't believe in a deity whereas in the latter, you actively spread ideas about atheism.
Jews believe in God, but aren't Christians.
Can someone create a script that automatically posts that pic in response to every one of Kirkland's posts?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jun 03, 2014, 03:20:56 PM
Still not seeing it. Let's bring it back to Christianity.
"Are you a Christian?"
"No."
"Do you believe in God?"
"Yes."
"Then you're a Christian."
"No, I'm not."
It's the same thing for atheism. I almost feel like saying there's a difference between being atheist and being an atheist. In the former case, you don't believe in a deity whereas in the latter, you actively spread ideas about atheism.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I can learn.
Yeah, it's kind of like saying you can be gay, and you can be 'a gay'. One just has an attraction to other men, the other be steppin' out them clubs erry day!
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 03, 2014, 10:48:19 PM
Yeah, it's kind of like saying you can be gay, and you can be 'a gay'. One just has an attraction to other men, the other be steppin' out them clubs erry day!
I say that... ???
That was in response to Doom.
Yeah and I was saying I say that. ???
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/03/pope-francis-attacks-the-culture-of-wellbeing-married-couples-should-have-kids-not-pets/ (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/03/pope-francis-attacks-the-culture-of-wellbeing-married-couples-should-have-kids-not-pets/)
Hey, Francis. Eat a bundle of dicks.
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 04, 2014, 02:07:06 AM
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/03/pope-francis-attacks-the-culture-of-wellbeing-married-couples-should-have-kids-not-pets/ (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/03/pope-francis-attacks-the-culture-of-wellbeing-married-couples-should-have-kids-not-pets/)
Hey, Francis. Eat a bundle of dicks.
Meh, bit of an overreaction I'd say.
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 04, 2014, 02:07:06 AM
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/03/pope-francis-attacks-the-culture-of-wellbeing-married-couples-should-have-kids-not-pets/ (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/03/pope-francis-attacks-the-culture-of-wellbeing-married-couples-should-have-kids-not-pets/)
Hey, Francis. Eat a bundle of dicks.
I'm losing a lot of respect for this guy. What happened to the dude who called out extravagant bishops?
Another overreaction.
No offense, but God is a f**king serial killer XD
http://io9.com/gods-12-biggest-dick-moves-in-the-old-testament-1522970429/all (http://io9.com/gods-12-biggest-dick-moves-in-the-old-testament-1522970429/all)
I can see how mine could be, but how was Doom overreacting? All he said was he lost respect for him. That's perfectly reasonable.
For what though?
All Francis said was hey, children make growing old less shitty and dogs ain't no substitute.
Using the language the Church does.
First he ignores pedophilia like so many popes before him and then he insults married couples that don't want kids just because, according to him, this is wrong? He thinks very highly of himself.
QuoteHe told them fertility was one of the three planks of a successful marriage, alongside faithfulness and perseverance.
Yeah, see... being infertile or not wanting kids is kind of a thing Francis.
No, they're wrong because God.
Quote from: BANE on Jun 04, 2014, 02:36:24 AM
For what though?
All Francis said was hey, children make growing old less shitty and dogs ain't no substitute.
Using the language the Church does.
That depends on your view of dogs I suppose. A lot of people thinks dogs are perfect substitutes for children and lots of people in their senior years enjoy the company of dogs.
Also there are lots of people who have lost contact with their children (perhaps their children relocated, perhaps their children are not making enough of an effort to see their parents, perhaps they didn't turn out to be such great people despite being raised well).
There are many factors to consider and not everyone who has children is guaranteed that they won't ever be lonely.
Nothing wrong with having a dog however treating a dog like it is a kid is kind of screwy. Especially those toy dogs. Creeps me the f**k out. Also, if the pope is so worried about people not having kids then why didn't he pork a few out... oh, right. That whole celibacy non-sense. Married to the boss.
That's unfair. You can't blame that insane shit on someone that doesn't exist.
I just think people overreacted. What he said wasn't anything controversial or hateful. A good kid(s) can make growing old less shitty. Nobody wants or expects their kids to grow apart from them/lose contact with them, and who in the world wouldn't have kids simply because of that possibility?
I don't know, it just seemed like a harmless statement to me that people went crazy over (see the comments...yikes).
Quote from: Crazy shrimp on Jun 04, 2014, 02:30:48 AM
No offense, but God is a f**king serial killer XD
Don't you
dare call God a serial killer. That just isn't the right thing to do. You should be ashamed of yourself for associating him with the traits of such a person.
God is a f**king mass murderer.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/02/nj-diocese-were-not-liable-because-molesting-boys-not-part-of-priests-official-duties/ (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/02/nj-diocese-were-not-liable-because-molesting-boys-not-part-of-priests-official-duties/)
See, if you're molesting a boy, then your not on duty, because molesting boys isn't one of your duties!
In other news, if you're jerking off behind the counter at McDonalds, then your not actually at work, because McDonalds employees don't get paid to jerk off.
Quote from: BANE on Jun 04, 2014, 11:18:19 AM
A good kid(s) can make growing old less shitty.
Just ask this guy...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pitch.com%2Fimager%2Fkansas-wants-more-money-to-keep-guys-like-this-locked-up-indefinitely%2Fb%2Fbig%2F2623554%2F5068%2F1315844540-herbert-family-guy.jpg&hash=5ace2e26d259d0da41443d1b103538990213c94e)
But isn't man made in gods own image? So wouldn't that make the writers of the bible the true mass murderers?
In the beginning, man created God, and he saw that it was profitable.
Seriously though, we've had our fun guys, there's no reason to keep this thread around if all it's going to be is a twin of the Atheism thread. We really should just merge them or make a basic Theology thread.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jun 04, 2014, 10:01:50 PM
But isn't man made in gods own image? So wouldn't that make the writers of the bible the true mass murderers?
Compared to Yahweh who drowned an entire planet's population, made plagues and did other things to us? I'd say he would be the ultimate mass murderer.
God is above your puny human labels, worthless vermin!!!!
Quote from: maledoro on Jun 04, 2014, 09:25:10 PM
Quote from: BANE on Jun 04, 2014, 11:18:19 AM
A good kid(s) can make growing old less shitty.
Just ask this guy...
http://www.pitch.com/imager/kansas-wants-more-money-to-keep-guys-like-this-locked-up-indefinitely/b/big/2623554/5068/1315844540-herbert-family-guy.jpg
:laugh:
Oh crap I thought this was the atheist thread. What am I doing here. :-*
I got Popsicles in my basement!
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 04, 2014, 10:03:32 PM
Seriously though, we've had our fun guys, there's no reason to keep this thread around if all it's going to be is a twin of the Atheism thread. We really should just merge them or make a basic Theology thread.
I support either decision. The topic of this thread could just be changed though; I was never responding as someone that identifies as a christian, rather I was experimenting, as I did a little over a year ago.
The difference seen is that here, in the context of religion, negative emotions were running rampant, almost as if out of obligation...when you guys thought I was on LSD or just plain old psychotic, the responses were all over the place, from amusement, confusion, annoyance, curiosity, etc.
I intend to write more walls of text either in this topic, the atheism one, or one of my own creation.
There
will be more.
_________________________________________________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16t3OLGrZKw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16t3OLGrZKw)
Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine.
Et lux perpetua luceat eis.
Te decet hymnus, Deus, in Sion
Translation
Eternal rest give unto them, O Lord
And let perpetual light shine upon them
A hymn, O God, becometh Thee in Zion
the actual translation that can only be heard:
wake me up. we have to go now. it is forbidden that you simply watch....look here, it is pre-written....we're god, we're god, some see not....god god god god god god god god god god god god god
wake me up....we have to go now.....wake me up....we have to go now....wake me up...we have to go now....it is forbidden that you keep watch...
_______
...The singularity is coming
Usually I avoid threads like this, they're boring -- but damn, Xeno Killer makes everything more entertaining.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jun 06, 2014, 04:00:52 AM
...The singularity is coming
Rubbernecker!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-o2eYurlMR3k%2FTb7Se7CPteI%2FAAAAAAAABes%2Ff2q6qsxrC8s%2Fs400%2FMister%2BFantastic.jpg&hash=2f0f70f927d643b2952e014466b1b12cfe07454d)
lol you aint shit
You know... I'll throw this out there to keep the thread going in a somewhat rational direction, outside of the 'look how smart I am' athiests who get their rocks off by reading their own clever posts that they've already written a hundred times. :laugh:
The mass-murder you claim that the Christian god commits is all justified within the context of the Hebrew bible. It's not meant to be a fuzzy, feel-good Buddhist sort of religion. It's about judgment, condemnation of a very real (within the religion) sin, and ultimate redemption.
God has lots of obvious flaws within the text, but so have all gods. Those of you who are athiests or believe another religion rationalize this by your understanding that god is man-made. Christians usually rationalize this by understanding that the image of man comes from God, ultimately meaning God is as fallible, in the end, as man, and learns.
There are also lots of interesting theories about how the mass killings/genocides in the Hebrew Old Testament had something to do with the Nephilim, genetic inter-breeding, giants, etc etc... It's kind of crazy, but no crazier than anything else in the Christian (or any) bible, and is supported heavily by apocryphal texts.
Don't even argue the apocrypha with me, either. A bunch of assholes got together and decided what goes and what stays. To me, and to most secular people, all of the books have the same merit and bearing on the religion.
Quote from: RagingDragon on Jun 12, 2014, 05:20:38 PM
Christians usually rationalize this by understanding that the image of man comes from God, ultimately meaning God is as fallible, in the end, as man, and learns.
No they don't :laugh: The majority Christian view is that God is
infallible. That's the entire goddamn point of worshipping him.
They may claim that, but talk to them for fifteen seconds and they'll admit that God has expressed at least some human traits in the bible. He's jealous, and he's expressed regret over creating humanity, just to point out the obvious ones.
Real Christians that have thought about their beliefs (gasp) have to come to terms with this.
Many correctly say that part of Jesus' purpose was to allow God to accept humanity in its funk ass condition, and/or he created Jesus so that he would never be jealous or wrathful again. That's canonical. :laugh: 8) Christians don't have to fulfill the strict Old Testament laws anymore. They have another path of salvation, and this allows God to chill.
Quote from: RagingDragon on Jun 12, 2014, 05:33:40 PM
Real Christians that have thought about their beliefs (gasp) have to come to terms with this.
What separates a
real Christian versus a
fake Christian :P
lol RD go home you're sober
Quote from: Cvalda on Jun 12, 2014, 05:35:05 PM
What separates a real Christian versus a fake Christian :P
fake christian could be someone who is christian because his parents were and he was raised as one. he goes to church because he always did. he don't neccesarily need to believe in god, he just never thought about it, he don't care. god do not have a big role in his life basically all he does is that he goes to church now and then and when someone asks him about his belief that he says he is a christian. you know stuff like that
I thought Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Unless I misunderstand that (OMG U NEED DA CONTECKS) then the Old Testament never got tossed out. We're still supposed to be killed by mob justice for planting seeds too close to each other, because that's wasteful and we live in the desert.
Quote from: Aspie on Jun 12, 2014, 05:36:40 PM
lol RD go home you're sober
:laugh:
A welcome twist on the old standby!Quote from: Cvalda on Jun 12, 2014, 05:35:05 PM
What separates a real Christian versus a fake Christian :P
Christianity, and any religion, is a spiritual commitment. If you don't think about it, and truly live your life in devotion and observation of it, you aren't a true follower of that faith no matter what you call yourself.
A spiritual commitment is meaningful and should be life-changing. We have too many religious people that are religious because it's trendy, or because that's just what everyone else does. They kind of shit on the real concept of belief in a spiritual doctrine, which will
always involve a deep and thoughtful commitment when true. This is true for any religion. I'm sure there are plenty of McDonald's Buddhists too. :D
I also like what Mooner said.
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 12, 2014, 05:43:33 PM
I thought Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Unless I misunderstand that (OMG U NEED DA CONTECKS) then the Old Testament never got tossed out. We're still supposed to be killed by mob justice for planting seeds too close to each other, because that's wasteful and we live in the desert.
In fulfilling the law, he made it so the rest of us don't have to. That's pretty basic. :laugh: But the Christian church seems a little confused when it comes to where and how to understand this lol.
Rabbinic Judaism still operates by most of these Old Testament laws, whenever possible. They do not acknowledge Jesus as the messiah, like Islam, only as another prophet that never claimed to be God incarnate.
Quote from: RagingDragon on Jun 12, 2014, 05:51:40 PM
We have too many religious people that are religious because it's trendy, or because that's just what everyone else does.
I'd wager a guess that that's pretty much why the concept of religion thrives in general... :P
Quote from: Cvalda on Jun 12, 2014, 05:56:57 PM
I'd wager a guess that that's pretty much why the concept of religion thrives in general... :P
Lol. You can tell a 'real' Christian, or a real follower of any religion for that matter, by their life and words.
They're sometimes like, these monks or nuns or something, that actually take the words literally and drastically change their lives according to them! Whoa hooooo what a crazy concept!
Most would rather watch monday night football and take Molly at concerts, and then luckily 'sorry Jesus' at the last minute. Sweet bro.
Quote from: RagingDragon on Jun 12, 2014, 06:02:25 PM
They're sometimes like, these monks or nuns or something, that actually take the words literally and drastically change their lives according to them! Whoa hooooo what a crazy concept!
Sacrificing your life and sexuality to theological bondage, simply on faith, is kind of crazy concept, yeah... ;D
People devote their lives to many things, they just don't think of them in the same light.
Plus even though most religious people perceive that their bondage is actually from living in the humanistic world itself, plenty of people enjoy bondage. :P :laugh:
I actually have to agree with Cvalda here. Devotion is seen as a very positive thing, but it's more dependent on what that person is devoted to. Devotion in itself isn't quantifiable. There are definitely stupid things to devote yourself to. The logic behind a life devoted to, say, Biblical literalism, isn't even remotely the same as, say, devotion to a spouse or family member.
In other words, yeah, devoting your entire life to a crazy concept is crazy :P It's kind of in the description.
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 12, 2014, 08:02:30 PM
The logic behind a life devoted to, say, Biblical literalism, isn't even remotely the same as, say, devotion to a spouse or family member.
If it makes you happy, sure it is.
I didn't say it was unhealthy, inherently, I said it was poor logic. You can do something that is both illogical and not too bad for you. Now, living in a fantasy can be a problem for you if you need to interact with society, so if you're trying to be a functional human being in a modern society, devoting yourself to a delusion is definitely to your detriment. How much of a detriment really depends on the level of delusion and the amount you wish to interact with society.
So, yeah, if it makes them happy, and doesn't detract from their quality of life, go for it. Just find me an example of devotion formed under poor logic that isn't a crappy outcome :P
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 12, 2014, 09:29:29 PM
You can do something that is both illogical and not too bad for you. Now, living in a fantasy can be a problem for you if you need to interact with society, so if you're trying to be a functional human being in a modern society, devoting yourself to a delusion is definitely to your detriment. How much of a detriment really depends on the level of delusion and the amount you wish to interact with society.
No.
But isn't jaded cynicism, intolerance and ceaseless mockery much more constructive?
Quote from: BANE on Jun 12, 2014, 09:59:02 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Jun 12, 2014, 09:29:29 PM
You can do something that is both illogical and not too bad for you. Now, living in a fantasy can be a problem for you if you need to interact with society, so if you're trying to be a functional human being in a modern society, devoting yourself to a delusion is definitely to your detriment. How much of a detriment really depends on the level of delusion and the amount you wish to interact with society.
No.
Elaborate?
Quote from: SM on Jun 12, 2014, 10:12:17 PM
But isn't jaded cynicism, intolerance and ceaseless mockery much more constructive?
Where did I do that?
(https://scontent-1.2914.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10415562_10152421368588808_5891394039779987371_n.png)
Happy Elektra Complex/Father's Day from Praise Pictures.
Quote from: Cvalda on Jun 14, 2014, 11:14:53 PM
(https://scontent-1.2914.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10415562_10152421368588808_5891394039779987371_n.png)
Happy Elektra Complex/Father's Day from Praise Pictures.
:laugh:
That comment is
perfect for the photo.
:laugh:
Quote from: Cvalda on Jun 14, 2014, 11:14:53 PM
(https://scontent-1.2914.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10415562_10152421368588808_5891394039779987371_n.png)
Happy Elektra Complex/Father's Day from Praise Pictures.
Considering there's a crucifix in the watermark, I wouldn't run with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtiN6o1FuTs#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtiN6o1FuTs#ws)
Religion. It can make a black guy defend slavery.
Being f**king stupid can make you defend outrageous acts.
I met someone the other day who attributed his son (he claimed to have been 'firing blanks' before this) to praying to God for a family. I asked him why he deserved to be answered by God, but the millions of starving children in Africa get ignored. His answer was 'because America is taking all the resources and not sharing'.
Strange how when shit goes your way it's God smiling on you, but when an uncomfortable truth (like masses of starving African children) shows up, you suddenly become a realist just to avoid saying out loud that your God lets children die.
Wow you sure showed him.
Curious, how would you have handled it?
"Good for you."
I'd have done the same if this has started as and remained a friendly conversation, which it wasn't.
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 02, 2014, 12:52:07 AM
I met someone the other day who attributed his son (he claimed to have been 'firing blanks' before this) to praying to God for a family. I asked him why he deserved to be answered by God, but the millions of starving children in Africa get ignored. His answer was 'because America is taking all the resources and not sharing'.
Strange how when shit goes your way it's God smiling on you, but when an uncomfortable truth (like masses of starving African children) shows up, you suddenly become a realist just to avoid saying out loud that your God lets children die.
::)
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 02, 2014, 01:10:28 AM
I'd have done the same if this has started as and remained a friendly conversation, which it wasn't.
Sure you would.
ah my two favorite people!
Who, God and African kids?
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/21852df13d622ebfdcdffec5b50fa807/tumblr_n8ctsxBlns1qapkmyo1_500.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jcPHhXBBPM# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jcPHhXBBPM#)
Quote from: Cvalda on Jul 10, 2014, 04:52:35 PM
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/21852df13d622ebfdcdffec5b50fa807/tumblr_n8ctsxBlns1qapkmyo1_500.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jcPHhXBBPM# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jcPHhXBBPM#)
Praise the Larda!
Quote from: SM on Jun 12, 2014, 10:12:17 PM
But isn't jaded cynicism, intolerance and ceaseless mockery much more constructive?
Quote"Mockery of religion is one of the most essential things because to demystify supposedly 'holy text dictated by god' and show that they are man made and what you have to show [is] there internal inconsistencies and absurdities. One of the beginnings of human emancipation is the ability to laugh at authority... it is an indispensable thing people can call it blasphemy if they like, but if they call it that they have to assume there is something to be blasphemed - some divine work, well I don't accept the premise." - Christopher Hitchens
uh
do...do you believe in god?
Quote from: Cvalda on Jul 10, 2014, 04:52:35 PM
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/21852df13d622ebfdcdffec5b50fa807/tumblr_n8ctsxBlns1qapkmyo1_500.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jcPHhXBBPM# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jcPHhXBBPM#)
Well if it gets them off their fat ass...
Quote from: Gilfryd on Jul 10, 2014, 08:07:43 PM
Quote from: SM on Jun 12, 2014, 10:12:17 PM
But isn't jaded cynicism, intolerance and ceaseless mockery much more constructive?
Quote"Mockery of religion is one of the most essential things because to demystify supposedly 'holy text dictated by god' and show that they are man made and what you have to show [is] there internal inconsistencies and absurdities. One of the beginnings of human emancipation is the ability to laugh at authority... it is an indispensable thing people can call it blasphemy if they like, but if they call it that they have to assume there is something to be blasphemed - some divine work, well I don't accept the premise." - Christopher Hitchens
lol Hitchens...
What's wrong with Hitchens?
Aggressively defended the Iraq war, hated women, general pompous blowhard, etc.
http://www.salon.com/2011/12/17/when_hitch_was_wrong/ (http://www.salon.com/2011/12/17/when_hitch_was_wrong/)
Other than that he was a'ight.
Quote from: Cvalda on Jul 12, 2014, 05:57:03 PM
Aggressively defended the Iraq war, hated women, general pompous blowhard, etc.
http://www.salon.com/2011/12/17/when_hitch_was_wrong/ (http://www.salon.com/2011/12/17/when_hitch_was_wrong/)
Other than that he was a'ight.
A Salon article?
And did he hate women?
Google is your friend if you'd prefer other sources.
You think everyone hates women though :P Oh no, someone points out that there needs to be more female comedians, and suddenly he's a misogynist.
His anti-feminist, anti-abortion stances, and his occasional public descriptions of women as "sluts", "slags" and "dykes" has nothing to do with it.
That would be something, yes. Do you have a source? I tried Googling, and all I got was hysterical feminism blogs :P
Edit: On further Googling, he does seem to have some fairly questionable quotes. A bit saddening, though I'd rather he be called out on genuine flaws, rather then made up words like Islamaphobia.
Women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 13, 2014, 06:17:23 AMEdit: On further Googling, he does seem to have some fairly questionable quotes. A bit saddening, though I'd rather he be called out on genuine flaws, rather then made up words like Islamaphobia.
He was a genuine idiot in that regard though, he seriously thought bombs and missiles could put an end to Islamic fundamentalism when it in fact spreads it further.
Quote from: Cvalda on Jul 13, 2014, 06:14:00 AM
His anti-feminist, anti-abortion stances, and his occasional public descriptions of women as "sluts", "slags" and "dykes" has nothing to do with it.
Being anti-feminist and anti-abortion doesn't make someone a misogynist; just saying. But you are right in saying that using terms such as slut, slag, and dyke aren't exactly flattering.
Careful Cvalda - this is their poster boy you be dissin.
And here we go...
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 13, 2014, 08:08:28 PMBeing anti-feminist and anti-abortion doesn't make someone a misogynist; just saying. But you are right in saying that using terms such as slut, slag, and dyke aren't exactly flattering.
I'm pretty sure antifeminism is the definition of misogyny.
Quote from: SM on Jul 13, 2014, 10:04:35 PM
Careful Cvalda - this is their poster boy you be dissin.
I think he's the poster boy of seemingly dickish/ borderline neck-beard atheism more than anything, maybe I should have quoted one of the 'nicer' ones...
QuoteI don't believe you until you tell me, do you really believe, for example, if they say they are Catholic, "Do you really believe that when a priest blesses a wafer, it turns into the body of Christ? Are you seriously telling me you believe that? Are you seriously saying that wine turns into blood?" Mock them. Ridicule them. In public. Don't fall for the convention that we're all too polite to talk about religion. Religion is not off the table. Religion is not off limits. Religion makes specific claims about the universe which need to be substantiated and need to be challenged and, if necessary, need to be ridiculed with contempt.
- Richard Dawkins
But I'm sure someone could point out his personal flaws too. :laugh:
lol Dawkins
charles dawkins
Quote from: Gilfryd on Jul 15, 2014, 01:33:37 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 13, 2014, 08:08:28 PMBeing anti-feminist and anti-abortion doesn't make someone a misogynist; just saying. But you are right in saying that using terms such as slut, slag, and dyke aren't exactly flattering.
I'm pretty sure antifeminism is the definition of misogyny.
From Dictionary.com
Quotemi·sog·y·ny [mi-soj-uh-nee, mahy-] noun
hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.
Nothing in there about feminism.
lol Doomrulz
Quote from: SM on Jul 15, 2014, 01:38:23 AM
lol Dawkins
So what's your problem with these guys?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 15, 2014, 02:36:05 AMNothing in there about feminism.
But obviously if you hate, dislike or mistrust women that inherently makes you an antifeminist because feminism is all about, you know, not doing any of that.
Quote from: SM on Jul 15, 2014, 03:10:46 AM
lol Doomrulz
Well we agree here. :laugh:
QuoteSo what's your problem with these guys?
I'm just generally live and let live.
Personally they remind me of PETA: I might agree with a lot of what they say in general, but the way they go about saying it is so f**king obnoxious I find myself disagreeing with them out of spite. See Hitchen's "Take every chance to be a dick to religious people about their beliefs" above.
Quote from: SiL on Jul 16, 2014, 01:09:24 AM
Personally they remind me of PETA: I might agree with a lot of what they say in general, but the way they go about saying it is so f**king obnoxious I find myself disagreeing with them out of spite. See Hitchen's "Take every chance to be a dick to religious people about their beliefs" above.
IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO PROGRESS OUR HINDERED SOCIETY
I'm in a weird position on that. I tend to agree with Sil, BUT, I see the value and even the necessity of a man like Dawkins. Hitchens I'm not so familiar with (thus being ignorant of his less then flattering comments) but Dawkins and his ilk are pretty much necessary, though at times very unlikeable. I mean, we're dealing with deeply set taboo here. You need to be able to de-mystify people towards the topic before you can have an actually beneficial discourse on it. Dawkins, 'The Dick', is the kind of person who can do that, but he isn't that great at what comes afterwards (the more reasoned debate I mean).
As neckbeard as it sounds, mocking has it's place. You think people would have had the discourse they are having now about, say, Christianity, if people hadn't still considered it to be some special, essential part of society? I've said this before, but somethings you just need a Dick to go for the throat and show everyone that it can bleed. That's when people will talk about it fairly.
You can mock without being a dickhead. Carl Sagan would often make jibes at religious beliefs, but did so with humour and a good-naturedness. He wanted to entice people to learn and think critically, to encourage people to go out and change. Dawkins et al., on the other hand, spend most of their time coming across as "These are facts, if you don't believe this, you're a f**king retard and you're keeping the species down, f**k you."
Similarly I thought Degrasse Tyson neatly demolished some religious ideas in the new Cosmos series (young Earth creationism for example), while rarely - if ever - actually directly referring to said ideas or being a obnoxious Hitchens/ Dawkins-esque shithead about it.
I hold a special place in my heart for N.D Tyson.
Top of my nuisance list.
I actually agree, I prefer the gentler approach of Cosmo, but I don't think a show like Cosmos would work in a society that overwhelmingly views Religion as special. Hell, America still kind of does, thus the backlash the new Cosmos is receiving. People like Dawkins and Hitchens help to dispel that taboo, but I honestly wouldn't want them hosting Cosmos. Sagan and Tyson are much better suited for education. Hitchens and Dawkins are just the social battering rams.
They're c**ts though.
Who do nothing but strengthen the convictions of those they're arguing against through their incessant c**tiness.
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 16, 2014, 03:11:01 AM
I actually agree, I prefer the gentler approach of Cosmo, but I don't think a show like Cosmos would work in a society that overwhelmingly views Religion as special.
The original series was the most-watched science series of all time. It worked plenty well.
Quote from: BANE on Jul 16, 2014, 03:17:58 AM
Who do nothing but strengthen the convictions of those they're arguing against through their incessant c**tiness.
Basically this. Acting like a dickhead to people who don't agree with you only makes them disagree more.
Quote from: Gilfryd on Jul 15, 2014, 09:03:49 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 15, 2014, 02:36:05 AMNothing in there about feminism.
But obviously if you hate, dislike or mistrust women that inherently makes you an antifeminist because feminism is all about, you know, not doing any of that.
So I guess being anti-Israeli means being anti-Semitic as well, right? Or being anti-Muslim means being anti-Arab?
Quote from: SiL on Jul 16, 2014, 03:20:50 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 16, 2014, 03:11:01 AM
I actually agree, I prefer the gentler approach of Cosmo, but I don't think a show like Cosmos would work in a society that overwhelmingly views Religion as special.
The original series was the most-watched science series of all time. It worked plenty well.
Quote from: BANE on Jul 16, 2014, 03:17:58 AM
Who do nothing but strengthen the convictions of those they're arguing against through their incessant c**tiness.
Basically this. Acting like a dickhead to people who don't agree with you only makes them disagree more.
Hmmm, good points.
Quote from: SiL on Jul 16, 2014, 03:20:50 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 16, 2014, 03:11:01 AM
I actually agree, I prefer the gentler approach of Cosmo, but I don't think a show like Cosmos would work in a society that overwhelmingly views Religion as special.
The original series was the most-watched science series of all time. It worked plenty well.
Quote from: BANE on Jul 16, 2014, 03:17:58 AM
Who do nothing but strengthen the convictions of those they're arguing against through their incessant c**tiness.
Basically this. Acting like a dickhead to people who don't agree with you only makes them disagree more.
How to influence people who don't share your views - write a book called The God Delusion.
:laugh:
Preaching to the choir.
very much preaching to the choir, that dawkins chap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxdxZ47JouU# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxdxZ47JouU#)
:laugh:
Love all.
That last one was the best haha. Had Dawkins chuckling. First time I've ever seen him chuckle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZFQT_rzH6w#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZFQT_rzH6w#ws)
A manic cocaine addict and a man eating a breadstick tear chunks off of eachother over who is the better Christian.
Better christian. That is quite humorous.
Quote from: Mr. Sin on Jul 23, 2014, 05:29:51 AM
Better christian. That is quite humorous.
Shhh, quiet judgmental atheist heathen!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F37.media.tumblr.com%2Fbdf14422c9fb315b344c46e8d14d988f%2Ftumblr_n9236ls02R1rg1i7bo1_400.png&hash=fc4156d9f999e5652d6c2988b75ef7e7b3442db4)
Churches already pay property taxes on property they own, but they enjoy tax exempt status as charities. It should stay that way. The minute they start putting more money into the government, is the minute they can start influencing policy.
Quote from: Rong on Jul 23, 2014, 11:24:41 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F37.media.tumblr.com%2Fbdf14422c9fb315b344c46e8d14d988f%2Ftumblr_n9236ls02R1rg1i7bo1_400.png&hash=fc4156d9f999e5652d6c2988b75ef7e7b3442db4)
Haha the blind faith ( ;)) of the people who made that picture is amusing.
As if the money would actually go to doing something worthwhile. :laugh:
Quote from: BANE on Jul 23, 2014, 12:17:24 PM
Quote from: Rong on Jul 23, 2014, 11:24:41 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F37.media.tumblr.com%2Fbdf14422c9fb315b344c46e8d14d988f%2Ftumblr_n9236ls02R1rg1i7bo1_400.png&hash=fc4156d9f999e5652d6c2988b75ef7e7b3442db4)
Haha the blind faith ( ;)) of the people who made that picture is amusing.
As if the money would actually go to doing something worthwhile. :laugh:
This is correct.
Another fleet of fighter planes and warships, on the double!!
A girl tried to tell me once that Churches aren't considered religious buildings because they sometimes hold soup kitchens, which makes them relief organizations, and that's why they are exempt from paying taxes. She also thinks that businesses can't be Religious because the goal is to make money. The business in question she was defending states right on their website that they wish to serve God and promote a Christian lifestyle. I showed this to her and she called me a bully and demanded site staff enforce a no contact order between us.
wut
there has to be something missing from that story
Sabby was probably being an uppity, condescending atheist again.
Nah, I'm more restrained on that forum. The mods there are very strict :P
gud iz dead lul
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 23, 2014, 09:54:33 PM
Nah, I'm more restrained on that forum. The mods there are very strict :P
Aha! So he admits he acts like a prick on here!
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jul 24, 2014, 01:00:45 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 23, 2014, 09:54:33 PM
Nah, I'm more restrained on that forum. The mods there are very strict :P
Aha! So he admits he acts like a prick on here!
u 2 shuld get married 2 bad it's a blight against gud
My gahy parents would never approve
no son of urs is gonna be a lezbo!!!!
its not gahy if its on da moon
das pre fookin ghey
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jul 24, 2014, 01:00:45 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 23, 2014, 09:54:33 PM
Nah, I'm more restrained on that forum. The mods there are very strict :P
Aha! So he admits he acts like a prick on here!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_mbsem8VMu01r1ivn5.gif&hash=cf76f85fa54052574f20fe3aa24336f9d239f3c7)
Rong is our only gud now
Quote from: Cal427eb on Jul 24, 2014, 01:00:45 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 23, 2014, 09:54:33 PM
Nah, I'm more restrained on that forum. The mods there are very strict :P
Aha! So he admits he acts like a prick on here!
Only to certain people.
So...how 'bout that God, eh?
I like how this thread has become another militant atheist hate thread, as much bad as religion does, it does some good too. It does give people hope, debatable if it's false hope but it's hope none the less. Why try and take that hope away from people? Call people out if they're being shitty people yes, but if you're like "lolwot u believe in gud? fuk u idiot", you're an asshole.
As someone who isn't religious in the slightest and only I suppose slightly spiritual. Militant, anything be it Christans, Athiests, Muslims, Buddhists, Jewish, whatever are terrible.
Leave Brittney alone :ccc
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Jul 24, 2014, 12:32:29 PM
I like how this thread has become another militant atheist hate thread
This is still the Atheist thread I think, I believe it got a name change, but yea.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Jul 24, 2014, 01:47:05 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Jul 24, 2014, 12:32:29 PM
I like how this thread has become another militant atheist hate thread
This is still the Atheist thread I think, I believe it got a name change, but yea.
Yup.
They merged them all, thankfully. Every single thread about religion or related things eventually became like this -- one thread is better than multiple threads with the same sauce.
The atheist thread came first. Of course, creationists will argue on that one.
;)
Nah, there were lots of polls from my lurking days. Though the base for this thread is the atheist thread, so yeah.
It was a joke. ;)
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Jul 24, 2014, 01:47:05 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Jul 24, 2014, 12:32:29 PM
I like how this thread has become another militant atheist hate thread
This is still the Atheist thread I think, I believe it got a name change, but yea.
It's for theology in general; atheism and theism.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 24, 2014, 03:04:53 PM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Jul 24, 2014, 01:47:05 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Jul 24, 2014, 12:32:29 PM
I like how this thread has become another militant atheist hate thread
This is still the Atheist thread I think, I believe it got a name change, but yea.
It's for theology in general; atheism and theism.
Yea, but it wasn't that before.
It is now since it was merged with the Christianity thread.
Yea, I know, I was explaining something to Spoon.
Spoon's right anyway -- these kinds of thread always end up like this.
are the athiests not cryin cos they got thrown in with christians?
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Jul 24, 2014, 10:24:17 PM
are the athiests not cryin cos they got thrown in with christians?
No.
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 24, 2014, 10:26:15 PM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Jul 24, 2014, 10:24:17 PM
are the athiests not cryin cos they got thrown in with christians?
No.
some people get mad when atheism roped in as a form of theology as apposed to a philosophy
Some people are wrong, some people try and correct them. Pretty simple.
considering the philosophical or spiritual nature of theology it's pretty hard to be wrong
You misunderstand. You said that some Atheists get mad when others say that Atheism is a Religion. This is wrong, and yes, it can be annoying, so a lot of people in this thread try and correct that when we see it.
I understand completely.
Is it wrong though? One of the several definitions of religion is "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance." I would say this applies to militant atheists. Though, a rather broad term, and could apply to many things. "a particular system of faith and worship." Now, sans the worship, atheism could work here. Atheists have just as much faith that a supreme being doesn't exist as Christians do. The only real difference is the belief in a higher power and worship of that higher power. So if you consider all sects of Buddhism a religion then really atheism is as-well.
When it comes down to it, it is faith. There is no proof of the existence of a man in the sky, but also there isn't any proof there isn't. And it is faith that makes you believe in something that can't be proven.
We're really doing this again?
QuoteIs it wrong though? One of the several definitions of religion is "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance." I would say this applies to militant atheists.
That's an awful definition. It's so loose it has no utility. By this definition, everything is a Religion as long as someone believes in it enough.
Quote"a particular system of faith and worship." Now, sans the worship, atheism could work here. Atheists have just as much faith that a supreme being doesn't exist as Christians do.
This is a much better definition, but it still doesn't apply here. Atheism is based on a lack of belief. Faith, at least in this context, is belief without evidence, or the belief in things we cannot see and demonstrate. You cannot have faith that you're not sure. You cannot 'believe' and 'doubt' all at once.
QuoteWhen it comes down to it, it is faith. There is no proof of the existence of a man in the sky, but also there isn't any proof there isn't. And it is faith that makes you believe in something that can't be proven.
You don't prove a negative. Stop moving the burden of proof. It's not on the Atheist to prove that God does not exist, because that's impossible. It is on the Theist to prove that God does exist. Going 'Well, YOU have faith to" is silly.
While it is a a bad definition it is still a definition none the less.
You have belief in your disbelief of a higher power. The belief of something not existing, while in a extremely roundabout away, is still a belief. If you're not sure then you would probably consider yourself an agnostic not an atheist, but that is a label we put on ourselves I won't tell you what you are Sabby. See an agnostic is someone who isn't sure of the existence of a higher power whereas an atheist is someone who is sure.
Sadly, the burden of proof is on whoever want's to prove a higher powers existence, not solely the atheists and not solely the theists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU#)
Quote from: SM on Jul 24, 2014, 11:47:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU#)
shit nevermind gods been proven
go f**k yourselves atheists
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Jul 24, 2014, 11:42:04 PM
While it is a a bad definition it is still a definition none the less.
You have belief in your disbelief of a higher power. The belief of something not existing, while in a extremely roundabout away, is still a belief.
Once again, you are confusing 'I do not believe in God' with "I believe God does not exist'. These are two very different things. Trying to take the doubt/disbelief over whether or not God exists and make it into a positive assertion that God is not real is manipulation plain and simple.
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 25, 2014, 12:00:36 AM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Jul 24, 2014, 11:42:04 PM
While it is a a bad definition it is still a definition none the less.
You have belief in your disbelief of a higher power. The belief of something not existing, while in a extremely roundabout away, is still a belief.
Once again, you are confusing 'I do not believe in God' with "I believe God does not exist'. These are two very different things. Trying to take the doubt/disbelief over whether or not God exists and make it into a positive assertion that God is not real is manipulation plain and simple.
So then "I believe in God" and "I believe God does exist" would also be two very different statements?
No, those are both positive true claims. The difference between "God does not exist" and "I do not believe" is that one is a positive truth claim and the other is a position of doubt.
I have a 13 inch penis. Do you believe me? Now, it's entirely possible my penis is that big, but you have no way of knowing if it is. So you respond "I don't believe you" Does this mean you are saying my penis is small? No, it means your rejecting my claim that it 13 inches. Your not contesting my claim with one of your own, your just saying "I doubt that".
No I would be saying your penis is small.
Okay then how about
I don't believe in God. I believe God exists.
Okay, I say "My penis is 13 inches". You respond "I don't believe you"
How many inches did you just claim my penis is?
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 25, 2014, 12:19:07 AM
Okay, I say "My penis is 13 inches". You respond "I don't believe you"
How many inches did you just claim my penis is?
2
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Jul 25, 2014, 12:20:12 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 25, 2014, 12:19:07 AM
Okay, I say "My penis is 13 inches". You respond "I don't believe you"
How many inches did you just claim my penis is?
2
Wrong. You made no positive claim as to how long my dick is, you just said "I doubt it's 13".
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 25, 2014, 12:25:15 AM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Jul 25, 2014, 12:20:12 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 25, 2014, 12:19:07 AM
Okay, I say "My penis is 13 inches". You respond "I don't believe you"
How many inches did you just claim my penis is?
2
Wrong. You made no positive claim as to how long my dick is, you just said "I doubt it's 13".
Pretty sure with responding to the question with the answer 2 I just told you I believe your penis is 2 inches.
No, you made a positive claim afterwards. The position of "I do not believe your cock is a foot long" does not actually make any claim as to it's real size.
This isn't difficult man.
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 25, 2014, 12:28:01 AM
No, you made a positive claim afterwards. The position of "I do not believe your cock is a foot long" does not actually make any claim as to it's real size.
This isn't difficult man.
Your penis is 2 inches.
Considering this is you, I think you're just being difficult.
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 25, 2014, 12:30:15 AM
Considering this is you, I think you're just being difficult.
Well the burden of proof is on you now. So until you prove otherwise, your penis is 2 inches.
I'm not really being difficult as not really going along with the applying logic to something that is inherently illogical and will probably won't ever be able to be explained logically. If a higher power did exist, it would transcend our reality and wouldn't adhere to the rules of our reality. So why examine it as if it would?
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Jul 25, 2014, 12:31:02 AM
Well the burden of proof is on you now. So until you prove otherwise, your penis is 2 inches.
Even that sounds a bit high, Spoonums :-\ Try a more
logical measurement, like three-quarters of a centimeter.
Quote from: Cvalda on Jul 25, 2014, 12:57:06 AM
Quote from: TheLoneSpoon on Jul 25, 2014, 12:31:02 AM
Well the burden of proof is on you now. So until you prove otherwise, your penis is 2 inches.
Even that sounds a bit high, Spoonums :-\ Try a more logical measurement, like three-quarters of a centimeter.
Fortunately for him, I'm not sure if penises can physically be that small.
Thankfully it's not about your actual dick size, but your dick size on the inside.
Sabby has a three quarter of a centimeter dick LOL kisses luv u sabby
How big is your dick Cvalda? ???
2big4u
Quote from: Omegazilla on Jul 24, 2014, 06:33:36 PM
Spoon's right anyway -- these kinds of thread always end up like this.
Yep, they
never turn out well.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F31.media.tumblr.com%2F6fe3d18f671252182f73a0ffa6ce37ed%2Ftumblr_n6nrjtMtIl1s71q1zo1_1280.png&hash=e34dce77d593b8b8d2d334a0ea8ee184b90089be)
Quote from: Cvalda on Jul 25, 2014, 02:16:14 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F31.media.tumblr.com%2F6fe3d18f671252182f73a0ffa6ce37ed%2Ftumblr_n6nrjtMtIl1s71q1zo1_1280.png&hash=e34dce77d593b8b8d2d334a0ea8ee184b90089be)
Disney World? ???
I keep thinking the black guy has a duck bill.
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/dd6ac7d9dfa5c4087f6906c2e5eb6ca7/tumblr_n995b5w40U1thdiflo1_500.jpg)
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/7ed5ef5140a98cb12faf68e383c011d5/tumblr_n995b5w40U1thdiflo2_500.jpg)
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/1e0190ee53344e1167820b25fdcf8cf1/tumblr_n995b5w40U1thdiflo3_500.jpg)
I'll never understand the LEGO feet... did Sonic 06 introduce that, or was that always a part of Knucks design? >.<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBezvtQ_3a8# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBezvtQ_3a8#)
mother Mary won't you whisper something but 'The past is done.'?
I will only complicate you.
Click on a theology topic and find a page full of estimations of peoples penis sizes :laugh: Still far more interesting than the religion/culture course I have to do for my uni studies.
Because damn,
some of dem fundamentalists are cray cray. Some messed up sh*t going on.
Quote from: Cvalda on Aug 01, 2014, 01:30:13 AM
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/dd6ac7d9dfa5c4087f6906c2e5eb6ca7/tumblr_n995b5w40U1thdiflo1_500.jpg)
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/7ed5ef5140a98cb12faf68e383c011d5/tumblr_n995b5w40U1thdiflo2_500.jpg)
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/1e0190ee53344e1167820b25fdcf8cf1/tumblr_n995b5w40U1thdiflo3_500.jpg)
Am I stupid for not knowing, if these are joke images or created with serious intent?
http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982 (http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982)
;D
Interesting article indeed. Thanks Xeno. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIEoO5KdPvg#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIEoO5KdPvg#ws)
No URL tags needed to post videos here. :)
Quote from: Shasvre on Oct 12, 2014, 05:02:27 PM
No URL tags needed to post videos here. :)
Thanks for the heads up ;D
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Oct 11, 2014, 11:06:42 PM
http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982 (http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982)
;D
QuoteScientists have discovered that "invisible friends" are not something reserved for children. We all have them, and encounter them often in the form of interior monologues. As we experience events, we mentally tell a non-present listener about it.
The difference here however is putting faith into that "invisible friend". Some people enjoy thinking out loud as it helps with gathering their thoughts. It doesn't mean they have faith that this being is watching over them and will punish or reward them somehow once they die.
Kinda goes here sorta...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRmUTwlm3eo#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRmUTwlm3eo#ws)
Wow, it has been a while since I walked into my own thread. How are all you Reprobates?
Been a while since you showed up at all, lol. Where ya been?
Real life happened. I'd give details, but you'll probably think I'm Trolling :P
So OT, while I was away, I got cornered by a drunk Mormon girl at a party. Something about how transsexuals are like when God lets babies get born without legs, or something. It was really weird o.O
Quote from: Sabby on Oct 27, 2014, 11:45:14 AM
Real life happened. I'd give details, but you'll probably think I'm Trolling :P
So OT, while I was away, I got cornered by a drunk Mormon girl at a party. Something about how transsexuals are like when God lets babies get born without legs, or something. It was really weird o.O
Drunk....Mormon? I thought those from that mythical persuasion tended to stay away from the jesus juice? Must be one of those liberal oriented Mormons like the singer from "the Killers".
Humans just love to make up fantastic stories to screw their fellow humans out of their hard earned cash.
btw drunk mormons are hilarious.
http://thoughtcatalog.com/samantha-pugsley/2014/08/i-waited-until-my-wedding-night-to-lose-my-virginity-and-i-wish-i-hadnt/ (http://thoughtcatalog.com/samantha-pugsley/2014/08/i-waited-until-my-wedding-night-to-lose-my-virginity-and-i-wish-i-hadnt/)
On religion. This made me laugh a little.
What's to laugh at?
The sheer sadness of it. I felt sorry for her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmEGtHTbh1E#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmEGtHTbh1E#ws)
I'll stick to Rockstar Fruit Punch.
Speaking of Satanism, I'm currently reading The Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor LaVey. It's a very interesting and engaging book. And before someone flips out and accuses me of worshiping Satan, I'll start by telling you that LaVeyan Satanism, in fact, has nothing to do with that notion.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Nov 13, 2014, 01:17:04 PM
Speaking of Satanism, I'm currently reading The Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor LaVey. It's a very interesting and engaging book. And before someone flips out and accuses me of worshiping Satan, I'll start by telling you that LaVeyan Satanism, in fact, has nothing to do with that notion.
That's dumb
Anton's dumb
I'm gonna get this Satan party started right
Slayer?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLkJt5sxomM# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLkJt5sxomM#)
I think he may or may not exist.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Nov 14, 2014, 02:51:21 PM
I think he may or may not exist.
Ain't a whole lot of other ways to look at it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32mxZxv3dYM#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32mxZxv3dYM#ws)
Disabled comments; not surprising.
Any Atheists played Black and White 2? It feels odd, but nit unpleasant.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Nov 13, 2014, 01:17:04 PM
Speaking of Satanism, I'm currently reading The Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor LaVey. It's a very interesting and engaging book. And before someone flips out and accuses me of worshiping Satan, I'll start by telling you that LaVeyan Satanism, in fact, has nothing to do with that notion.
No, it's just the same ideology as Ayn Rand's Objectivism but worded differently. Extreme egoism and supreme egocentrism, plus some indirect fascism and nihilism.
Actually, there's none of that. The book emphasizes indulgence. If what you're doing brings you mental and physical gratification and doesn't harm anyone in the process, go for it. But facism? I have no idea where you're getting that from. The religion is very hedonistic and doesn't advocate violence. The only violent bit the book describes are the fourth and eleventh Satanic Rules of the Earth:
QuoteIf a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy
QuoteWhen walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
You can interpret that in two ways: with severe physical aggression, or with verbal persuasion. Up to the individual.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Nov 30, 2014, 01:13:49 PM
Actually, there's none of that. The book emphasizes indulgence. If what you're doing brings you mental and physical gratification and doesn't harm anyone in the process, go for it. But facism? I have no idea where you're getting that from. The religion is very hedonistic and doesn't advocate violence. The only violent bit the book describes are the fourth and eleventh Satanic Rules of the Earth:
QuoteIf a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy
QuoteWhen walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
You can interpret that in two ways: with severe physical aggression, or with verbal persuasion. Up to the individual.
Hence the use of the word "indirect". Laveyan Satanism, just like Objectivism, despises or is indifferent to altruism, empathy and weakness, which indirectly leads to nihilism or fascism when on a greater scale. It's the opposite to humanism. On an individual basis it's just feeling good about indulging in extreme egoism and egocentrism without breaking any laws. Taking pride of not being altruistic or giving a rat's ass about the social contract.
It doesn't oppose altruism. It just speaks out against stupidity. Satanism is all for helping those in need, unless it somehow comes at a cost to you and I agree with that to an extent. If helping someone in need means I need to put my actual life on the life and risk losing it under the guise of altruism, well, no thanks.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Nov 30, 2014, 09:53:04 PM
It doesn't oppose altruism. It just speaks out against stupidity. Satanism is all for helping those in need, unless it somehow comes at a cost to you and I agree with that to an extent. If helping someone in need means I need to put my actual life on the life and risk losing it under the guise of altruism, well, no thanks.
That is a very generous interpretation of LaVeyan Satanism. I guess the spectrum is wide within the LaVeyan discipline with plenty of room for both narcissistic sociopaths as well as hesitant philanthropists, but what would be the effect if Satanism was embraced on a larger scale? What kind if society and citizens would that foster? Would there even be society?
I'll let you know when I finish the book! I'll say this, it's easily the most controversial religion ever. I told a Catholic friend of mine I was learning and researching it, and boy oh boy, did she ever lose her shit.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Nov 30, 2014, 11:37:28 PM
I'll let you know when I finish the book! I'll say this, it's easily the most controversial religion ever. I told a Catholic friend of mine I was learning and researching it, and boy oh boy, did she ever lose her shit.
I think the major obstacle is that it is named after Satan, so people won't take it seriously or waaay too seriously...
I mean, LaVeyan Satanism are in many ways the same as Objectivism, which is the inspiration for many libertarians on the far right of the spectrum. You only take care of yourself and the ones you want to take care of - everyone else might just as we'll not exist. Screw the social contract.
It was named Satanism just to piss off Christians; no, really. When Anton LaVey worked as an organ player for carnivals in the 60s, he noticed a lot of hypocrisy within the Christian community in the form of married men who weren't above hitting on young girls, would go to church to confess, then be right back at it the very next week. At least, that's a bridged explanation of what's in the book. His feeling was that, and I find myself in agreement with him here, the church in creating the seven deadly sins, effectively demonized the very act of being human. Why is what's considered mentally and physically gratifying, sinful? If it's pleasuring you and you aren't harming anyone, then what's the problem?
The rationale then became if everything good is sinful, then you might as well follow the "evil one": Satan. As Satanism's tag line goes, the devil is the church's best friend. After all, he's kept it in business all these years!
As for objectivism, I'm not too familiar with Ayn Rand's work. I take care of those around me and the ones I care about (did I say that twice?). I will also help out people in need if I can. Hell, I almost had to break up a domestic dispute that was happening across my street this past weekend and it was pretty unnerving.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 12:47:29 AM
It was named Satanism just to piss off Christians; no, really. When Anton LaVey worked as an organ player for carnivals in the 60s, he noticed a lot of hypocrisy within the Christian community in the form of married men who weren't above hitting on young girls, would go to church to confess, then be right back at it the very next week. At least, that's a bridged explanation of what's in the book. His feeling was that, and I find myself in agreement with him here, the church in creating the seven deadly sins, effectively demonized the very act of being human. Why is what's considered mentally and physically gratifying, sinful? If it's pleasuring you and you aren't harming anyone, then what's the problem?
The rationale then became if everything good is sinful, then you might as well follow the "evil one": Satan. A Satanism's tag line goes, the devil is the church's best friend. After all, he's kept it in business all these years!
As for objectivism, I'm not too familiar with Ayn Rand's work. I take care of those around me and the ones I care about (did I say that twice?). I will also help out people in need if I can. Hell, I almost had to break up a domestic dispute that was happening across my street this past weekend and it was pretty unnerving.
So you consider greed, gluttony, wrath and envy good and harmless things? Because those are four out of seven sins? Pride and sloth are in the grey zone. The only sin that I don't find to be "bad" is lust (even though lust can ruin a lot of things if you let it take control over you). Maybe that is what you were referring to as well?
I have to ask you though if you consider yourself a LaVeyan Satanist or if you're only intrigued and maybe inspired by it? Do you think it, as a religion and philosophy, would work on a grander scale or can you see any complications with as it indirectly encourages greed, egocentrism, narcissism, isolationism, egoism, vanity, nihilism etc., which are strong drives and behavioral/personality traits in a lot of people.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 12:47:29 AM
It was named Satanism just to piss off Christians; no, really.
...It is named Satanism because the members of it worship Satan.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Dec 01, 2014, 10:11:56 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 12:47:29 AM
It was named Satanism just to piss off Christians; no, really.
...It is named Satanism because the members of it worship Satan.
Incorrect. (http://www.churchofsatan.com/faq-fundamental-beliefs.php)
Quote from: Church of Satan F.A.Q.Q. Why do Satanists worship The Devil?
A. We don't. Satanists are atheists. We see the universe as being indifferent to us, and so all morals and values are subjective human constructions.
Our position is to be self-centered, with ourselves being the most important person (the "God") of our subjective universe, so we are sometimes said to worship ourselves. Our current High Priest Gilmore calls this the step moving from being an atheist to being an "I-Theist."
Satan to us is a symbol of pride, liberty and individualism, and it serves as an external metaphorical projection of our highest personal potential. We do not believe in Satan as a being or person.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 08:48:18 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 12:47:29 AM
It was named Satanism just to piss off Christians; no, really. When Anton LaVey worked as an organ player for carnivals in the 60s, he noticed a lot of hypocrisy within the Christian community in the form of married men who weren't above hitting on young girls, would go to church to confess, then be right back at it the very next week. At least, that's a bridged explanation of what's in the book. His feeling was that, and I find myself in agreement with him here, the church in creating the seven deadly sins, effectively demonized the very act of being human. Why is what's considered mentally and physically gratifying, sinful? If it's pleasuring you and you aren't harming anyone, then what's the problem?
The rationale then became if everything good is sinful, then you might as well follow the "evil one": Satan. A Satanism's tag line goes, the devil is the church's best friend. After all, he's kept it in business all these years!
As for objectivism, I'm not too familiar with Ayn Rand's work. I take care of those around me and the ones I care about (did I say that twice?). I will also help out people in need if I can. Hell, I almost had to break up a domestic dispute that was happening across my street this past weekend and it was pretty unnerving.
So you consider greed, gluttony, wrath and envy good and harmless things? Because those are four out of seven sins? Pride and sloth are in the grey zone. The only sin that I don't find to be "bad" is lust (even though lust can ruin a lot of things if you let it take control over you). Maybe that is what you were referring to as well?
There's an entire chapter devoted to the seven deadly sins. The easiest way I can sum it up is by saying that Satanism advocates looking at them in a different light. Instead of being negatives, look at them as positives. Here are some passages from the book.
N.B. these are "quote mined" but if you're really interested, I wouldn't mind putting the whole chapter into a recording I can share with you. It's not very long. So, from The Satanic Bible,
"Gluttony is simply eating more than you need to keep yourself alive. When you have overeaten to the point of obesity, another sin - pride - will motivate you to regain an appearance that will renew your self-respect."
"A Satanist knows there is nothing wrong with being greedy, as it only means that he wants more than he already has. Envy means to look with favour upon the possessions of others, and to be desirous of obtaining similar things for oneself. Envy and greed are the motivating forces of ambition - and without ambition, very little of any importance would be accomplished."
"Being reluctant to get up in the morning is to be guilty of sloth, and if you lie in bed long enough you may find yourself committing yet another sin - lust. To have the faintest stirring of sexual desire is to be guilty of lust. In order to insure the propagation of humanity, nature made lust the second most powerful instinct, the first being self-preservation. Realizing this, the Christian Church made fornication the "Original Sin." IN this they made sure no one would escape the sin. Your very state of being is a result of sin - the
Original sin!"
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 08:48:18 AM
I have to ask you though if you consider yourself a LaVeyan Satanist or if you're only intrigued and maybe inspired by it? Do you think it, as a religion and philosophy, would work on a grander scale or can you see any complications with as it indirectly encourages greed, egocentrism, narcissism, isolationism, egoism, vanity, nihilism etc., which are strong drives and behavioral/personality traits in a lot of people.
Definitely more so the latter. I'm fascinated by it because it's so different. It's a religion (or philosophy, depending on your view) that believes in human nature and isn't so quick to write everything off as being sinful or harmful just because a bunch of do-gooders believe that life is supposed to operate a certain way. I think I'm a little inspired by it because by admitting my interest in it, I'm learning who truly are the tolerant ones in my life. The real kicker? The people who spend the most amount of time flapping their gums about tolerance, love, compassion, and understanding are the most hypocritical. They preach all this stuff but when I come along with something like Satanism, all of a sudden it's as if the world is ending.
To answer your second question...
probably not. I think people could seriously misinterpret some of the stuff I quoted and do a great deal of harm with it, like any religion.
The thing with Satanists seeing Lucifer as a role model rather then a real being is interesting. I mean, people look to Superman, Spiderman and Goku as characters that embody certain values, and try to be more like those characters. They know those characters are fictional, but it doesn't change the message they get from those characters. Just because someone tries to be more like a fictional character and reflect their values, that doesn't mean they worship them.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Dec 01, 2014, 10:11:56 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 12:47:29 AM
It was named Satanism just to piss off Christians; no, really.
...It is named Satanism because the members of it worship Satan.
Only in the movies.
And that isn't even "Satanism". It's just devil worshiping.
Devil Worship is also known as Theistic Satanism or simply Satanism. :P Effectively though, LaveYan Satanism seems more philosophical than religious.
Though taking Satan as a role model isn't exactly cool beans (imho).
I think it is. It's a religion only in that it's a mockery of Christianity. It's not "Satan" they're modeling themselves. It's following the ideas of what Christianity has deemed sinful. They don't believe in Satan, the Christian idea of him.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Dec 01, 2014, 06:15:08 PM
Though taking Satan as a role model isn't exactly cool beans (imho).
I think it depends. The non-Biblical Satanic literary tradition is very fascinating, poetic and insightful, and the character there is both warped and tragic. It's not like Satan is a real historical figure (...checks title of thread...)
Sorry but devil worshiper or LaVeyan Satanism - greed, gluttony and envy are just awful human traits with no redeeming qualities. Embracing them and you might just as we'll embrace and give into racism, sexual abuse, bullying, theft etc.
To be crass I find Satanism, just like Objectivism, to be an ideology/religion for people who want to behave like spoiled teenage brats for the rest of their lives; an excuse to be a self-centered dick without without feeling bad about it, not giving a damn about the social contract.
Ironically enough I find LaVeyan Satanism to be more honest and sober-minded than Objectivism as it doesn't pretend that is has the moral higher ground or has the answer to all society's problems.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 08:47:18 PM
Sorry but devil worshiper or LaVeyan Satanism - greed, gluttony and envy are just awful human traits with no redeeming qualities. Embracing them and you might just as we'll embrace and give into racism, sexual abuse, bullying, theft etc.
They don't
have to be awful. That's the point.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 08:47:18 PM
To be crass I find Satanism, just like Objectivism, to be an ideology/religion for people who want to behave like spoiled teenage brats for the rest of their lives; an excuse to be a self-centered dick without without feeling bad about it, not giving a damn about the social contract.
Ironically enough I find LaVeyan Satanism to be more honest and sober-minded than Objectivism as it doesn't pretend that is has the moral higher ground or has the answer to all society's problems.
Again, Satanism does not say screw the social contract. It says help others as long as it is within your ability to help and don't bother with stupid people, i.e. people who are open assholes and treat others with disrespect (at least that's what I'm taking from it).
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 09:03:30 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 08:47:18 PM
Sorry but devil worshiper or LaVeyan Satanism - greed, gluttony and envy are just awful human traits with no redeeming qualities. Embracing them and you might just as we'll embrace and give into racism, sexual abuse, bullying, theft etc.
They don't have to be awful. That's the point.
How can it not be awful? There is nothing good about greed, envy and gluttony in a civilized society. Maybe in a post-apocalypse world...
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 09:03:30 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 08:47:18 PM
To be crass I find Satanism, just like Objectivism, to be an ideology/religion for people who want to behave like spoiled teenage brats for the rest of their lives; an excuse to be a self-centered dick without without feeling bad about it, not giving a damn about the social contract.
Ironically enough I find LaVeyan Satanism to be more honest and sober-minded than Objectivism as it doesn't pretend that is has the moral higher ground or has the answer to all society's problems.
Again, Satanism does not say screw the social contract. It says help others as long as it is within your ability to help and don't bother with stupid people, i.e. people who are open assholes and treat others with disrespect (at least that's what I'm taking from it).
I guess it's in the eye of the beholder and up to each person, which isn't really that reassuring to me.
Mod edit: botched quote.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 09:25:25 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 09:03:30 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 08:47:18 PM
Sorry but devil worshiper or LaVeyan Satanism - greed, gluttony and envy are just awful human traits with no redeeming qualities. Embracing them and you might just as we'll embrace and give into racism, sexual abuse, bullying, theft etc.
They don't have to be awful. That's the point.
How can it not be awful? There is nothing good about greed, envy and gluttony in a civilized society. Maybe in a post-apocalypse world...
Re-read the passages I provided.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 09:26:51 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 09:25:25 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 09:03:30 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 08:47:18 PM
Sorry but devil worshiper or LaVeyan Satanism - greed, gluttony and envy are just awful human traits with no redeeming qualities. Embracing them and you might just as we'll embrace and give into racism, sexual abuse, bullying, theft etc.
They don't have to be awful. That's the point.
How can it not be awful? There is nothing good about greed, envy and gluttony in a civilized society. Maybe in a post-apocalypse world...
Re-read the passages I provided.
Those passages are just word wrangling trying to trivialize the implications and cause and effect of greed, envy and gluttony. Those three - and especially greed - is the root to most of the world's problems.
You can be greedy for anything though. You're looking at it through the lens of "greedy meaning wanting more money meaning exploit more people". That's how I'm reading it, based on thoughts you've expressed in other threads. A charitable person can also be greedy. You can go good in this world and enjoy the benefits of it, but still be greedy for more. Greed in such a case drives you to do more charity. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 09:49:39 PM
You can be greedy for anything though. You're looking at it through the lens of "greedy meaning wanting more money meaning exploit more people". That's how I'm reading it, based on thoughts you've expressed in other threads. A charitable person can also be greedy. You can go good in this world and enjoy the benefits of it, but still be greedy for more. Greed in such a case drives you to do more charity. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so.
Why even call it greed then? Just to piss of Christians/Muslims/Jews?
Yes, that doesn't change. But to your inclusion of Jews and Muslims, well, LaVey wasn't thinking about them at the time for whatever reason. Not to mention, either group doesn't really care like Christians do. Most of my relatives who are Muslims have never even heard of Satanism.
And it's still greed. Wanting more than you have is greed.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 10:00:28 PM
Yes, that doesn't change. But to your inclusion of Jews and Muslims, well, LaVey wasn't thinking about them at the time for whatever reason. Not to mention, either group doesn't really care like Christians do. Most of my relatives who are Muslims have never even heard of Satanism.
They have heard about Satan/Shaitan/Iblis?
QuoteAnd it's still greed. Wanting more than you have is greed.
That's trivializing greed, mixing it up with will and drive.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 10:14:56 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 10:00:28 PM
Yes, that doesn't change. But to your inclusion of Jews and Muslims, well, LaVey wasn't thinking about them at the time for whatever reason. Not to mention, either group doesn't really care like Christians do. Most of my relatives who are Muslims have never even heard of Satanism.
They have heard about Satan/Shaitan/Iblis?
Shaitan, yes. But Satanism the religion, not really.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 10:14:56 PM
QuoteAnd it's still greed. Wanting more than you have is greed.
That's trivializing greed, mixing it up with will and drive.
Will and drive, aka ambition. What was it that was said about ambition earlier?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 12:47:42 PM
"A Satanist knows there is nothing wrong with being greedy, as it only means that he wants more than he already has. Envy means to look with favour upon the possessions of others, and to be desirous of obtaining similar things for oneself. Envy and greed are the motivating forces of ambition - and without ambition, very little of any importance would be accomplished."
;)
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 10:21:15 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 10:14:56 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 10:00:28 PM
Yes, that doesn't change. But to your inclusion of Jews and Muslims, well, LaVey wasn't thinking about them at the time for whatever reason. Not to mention, either group doesn't really care like Christians do. Most of my relatives who are Muslims have never even heard of Satanism.
They have heard about Satan/Shaitan/Iblis?
Shaitan, yes. But Satanism the religion, not really.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 01, 2014, 10:14:56 PM
QuoteAnd it's still greed. Wanting more than you have is greed.
That's trivializing greed, mixing it up with will and drive.
Will and drive, aka ambition. What was it that was said about ambition earlier?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 01, 2014, 12:47:42 PM
"A Satanist knows there is nothing wrong with being greedy, as it only means that he wants more than he already has. Envy means to look with favour upon the possessions of others, and to be desirous of obtaining similar things for oneself. Envy and greed are the motivating forces of ambition - and without ambition, very little of any importance would be accomplished."
;)
Mixing up the meaning of words again. Ambition and greed are not the same.
No, one leads to another. Greed is what drives ambition.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 02, 2014, 01:49:57 AM
No, one leads to another. Greed is what drives ambition.
I strongly disagree. You can be very greedy but lacking ambition (which is very common); opportunistic and quick to take whatever falls on the floor no matter if you need it or not, just as you can be very ambitious without being greedy; grand ideas and visions reserved for idealistic non-profit projects and such.
I think it's purely a matter of perspective. You're approaching it from a very idealistic position. Nothing wrong with that though :)
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 02, 2014, 02:23:09 AM
I think it's purely a matter of perspective. You're approaching it from a very idealistic position. Nothing wrong with that though :)
Maybe so, but the question still remains what the point is in calling it greed at all when it also means the opposite and everything in between. A word loses its meaning when it can mean anything. I don't get it, unless LaVeyan Satanism is just all about opposing everything Christian, kind of like a belligerent child/teenager trying to fight its parents no matter what it is about. Opposition for the sake if opposition. I find it very juvenile in a way.
This is why I don't like any ideology that goes THIS IS BAD, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT, LIKE EVER. Everyone is greedy, everyone is lustful, everyone is proud, some less so then others, but it's there. If you teach them they shouldn't feel that way, you create guilt and self loathing. It's better to teach healthy outlets for these feelings.
Quote from: Sabby on Dec 02, 2014, 04:19:33 AM
This is why I don't like any ideology that goes THIS IS BAD, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT, LIKE EVER. Everyone is greedy, everyone is lustful, everyone is proud, some less so then others, but it's there. If you teach them they shouldn't feel that way, you create guilt and self loathing. It's better to teach healthy outlets for these feelings.
It is a different thing to recognize/accept/acknowledge those feelings and that they are very human and only natural than to justify/embrace/cherish them and try to see them as positive things worth nurturing. I'm referring to gluttony and envy, but most if all greed.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 02, 2014, 02:34:48 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 02, 2014, 02:23:09 AM
I think it's purely a matter of perspective. You're approaching it from a very idealistic position. Nothing wrong with that though :)
Maybe so, but the question still remains what the point is in calling it greed at all when it also means the opposite and everything in between. A word loses its meaning when it can mean anything. I don't get it, unless LaVeyan Satanism is just all about opposing everything Christian, kind of like a belligerent child/teenager trying to fight its parents no matter what it is about. Opposition for the sake if opposition. I find it very juvenile in a way.
It's opposition of an ideology that is saying essentially, it's a sin to be human. I find myself in agreement because The Seven Deadly Sins are all about declaring what could be considered "fun" as sinful. For example, lust. What's wrong with being lustful and having premarital sex?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 02, 2014, 03:09:27 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 02, 2014, 02:34:48 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 02, 2014, 02:23:09 AM
I think it's purely a matter of perspective. You're approaching it from a very idealistic position. Nothing wrong with that though :)
Maybe so, but the question still remains what the point is in calling it greed at all when it also means the opposite and everything in between. A word loses its meaning when it can mean anything. I don't get it, unless LaVeyan Satanism is just all about opposing everything Christian, kind of like a belligerent child/teenager trying to fight its parents no matter what t is about. Opposition for the sake if opposition. I find it very juvenile in a way.
It's opposition of an ideology that is saying essentially, it's a sin to be human. I find myself in agreement because The Seven Deadly Sins are all about declaring what could be considered "fun" as sinful. For example, lust. What's wrong with being lustful and having premarital sex?
I have nothing against sloth or lust as they are pretty benign. But envy and especially greed are not "fun", they're incredibly destructive and causes so much pain, especially in the hands of someone with power.
Well we're going to keep going around in circles at this point because I believe a person can be greedy even for good things in life, but you're going to call it will and drive so... :P
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 02, 2014, 10:15:34 PM
Well we're going to keep going around in circles at this point because I believe a person can be greedy even for good things in life, but you're going to call it will and drive so... :P
Or ambition.
Yeah, it seems like you and I don't look at words and a word's meaning the same way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19TS2WC4WjI#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19TS2WC4WjI#ws)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/p480x480/10372152_790890037648312_1018897681206548220_n.jpg?oh=843c3b3cdc06459ad04a9993f9ef1098&oe=54FCFB85&__gda__=1426417371_038912005ba16471124b2615c1e01c9b)
No Alien/10
Have this one:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10409263_10152933035832899_6959304541591619208_n.jpg?oh=107e7428d6c9adf22d2c41de85ae0f5b&oe=5504B179&__gda__=1426529286_c6e231f18f9c4c891d7c69fb78668df4)
Quote from: Sabby on Dec 13, 2014, 03:41:40 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/p480x480/10372152_790890037648312_1018897681206548220_n.jpg?oh=843c3b3cdc06459ad04a9993f9ef1098&oe=54FCFB85&__gda__=1426417371_038912005ba16471124b2615c1e01c9b
There's a ceremony I could praise.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 14, 2014, 04:59:07 PM
Quote from: Sabby on Dec 13, 2014, 03:41:40 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/p480x480/10372152_790890037648312_1018897681206548220_n.jpg?oh=843c3b3cdc06459ad04a9993f9ef1098&oe=54FCFB85&__gda__=1426417371_038912005ba16471124b2615c1e01c9b
There's a ceremony I could praise.
Why is there not one but THREE Darth Vaders? Nothing can be that awesome. Can'it?
Oh, wait, now I get it. It's the 3 wise Darth Vaders. Silly me for misunderstanding the epic-ness.
Was he never wise? ;)
I didn't even figure that part out until you mentioned. It was funnier when I thought the guy just added three identical Vaders for no reason xD
So there's a Facebook group called "Christians Against Dinosaurs".
Yeah...
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 16, 2014, 01:52:59 PM
So there's a Facebook group called "Christians Against Dinosaurs".
Yeah...
With posts like this, I don't think it's very serious. :P
(https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1504546_914803995196514_3116942268947057581_n.jpg?oh=6ef366aa024a5cd8b910303d0e9a119f&oe=54FEAB64)
Haven't seen that image, but here's one for ya.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi86.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk93%2FDoomRulz_316%2FCAD_zpsc4bfaf02.png&hash=ba3c9b7775c3cb7b32d2bac8918d2b3b7a787607)
http://democratherald.com/article_16867a2c-6b28-5a10-919b-2465b49f7639.html (http://democratherald.com/article_16867a2c-6b28-5a10-919b-2465b49f7639.html)
QuoteAs she suffered from untreated diabetes, Syble Rossiter went through severe weight loss and appeared emaciated, Stein said.
On the day of her death, she was extremely thirsty and dehydrated, vomited and urinated out everything she took into her system, got so weak she couldn't stand, and her parents even bought adult diapers for her, Stein said.
Wenona Rossiter's parents were the first people in Oregon to be prosecuted for following their religion rather than taking a sick chid for medical care.
Good. Stop tolerating child abuse.
Not the first time it happens, unfortunately. That's proof of religion being a dangerous concept to follow.
No, that's proof that a lot of people are really, really dumb.
Yeah, having an outlet to push that dumbness forward.
Yeah, stupid people will do stupid things without inspiration, and if this sorry excuse for a mother didn't have any strong beliefs at all, she'd probably find some way to neglect her child.
That doesn't mean you can tell them kids go to Heaven but adults might go to Hell. I mean, if I believed the Bible was true, like, actually believed instead of paying lip service to Jesus when things go my way, I couldn't find a reason not to kill my kids and spare them the chance of Hell. I wouldn't do it, but it would make logical sense to me.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 22, 2014, 08:40:58 PM
Yeah, having an outlet to push that dumbness forward.
Anything can be such outlet.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Dec 23, 2014, 07:53:50 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 22, 2014, 08:40:58 PM
Yeah, having an outlet to push that dumbness forward.
Anything can be such outlet.
Of course it can, but there's a difference between something just happening to inspire a horrible act, and someone just putting forward horrible information that someone actually goes ahead and follows.
The woman who deprived her child of medical attention is responsible for killing her, but she isn't the only one to blame. Every idiot taught her to pray in place of calling a doctor is to blame. Her friends, her family, the people in her chat room, her pastor, her fellow Churchgoers, every single person in her life that reinforced her delusion have blood on their hands. Some have specks, some are dripping, but
they are all to blame.
They didn't force her to commit the crime she committed. She made her own choice. If she wasn't religious, that girl might still be alive.
Never said they forced her, but they contributed. You don't tell someone their doctors are evil and to pray for healing and then claim innocence when their child dies of a treatable condition.
What that couple subjected their daughter to is terrible but I think the fault most definitely lies with the parents and not the religious body to which they subscribe.
re: thread topic, not really sure what I would label myself as, I like reading about different theologies and seeing the common links and themes behind them. There is most likely some skewed element of truth behind most religious fables, it probably started with super early paganism and evolved into today's religions. Modern Wicca is pretty interesting and I kind of want to get more into it.
I used to be 100% atheist but after going to university and taking some more advanced physics courses, I've realized we've only scratched the surface on most topics and the icebergs of knowledge still lay mostly submerged, as my prof put it. We don't even know the stuff we don't know. So I think most religious ideas that people get all up in arms about saying "oh no that's impossible science says otherwise" its really not a convincing argument to me any longer since science is an ever expanding body of knowledge.
Science will be the vessel by which we describe new phenomena that are out there. Religion sure as Hell won't.
Quote from: Sabby on Dec 23, 2014, 08:14:15 AM
Quote from: Omegazilla on Dec 23, 2014, 07:53:50 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 22, 2014, 08:40:58 PM
Yeah, having an outlet to push that dumbness forward.
Anything can be such outlet.
Of course it can, but there's a difference between something just happening to inspire a horrible act, and someone just putting forward horrible information that someone actually goes ahead and follows.
The woman who deprived her child of medical attention is responsible for killing her, but she isn't the only one to blame. Every idiot taught her to pray in place of calling a doctor is to blame. Her friends, her family, the people in her chat room, her pastor, her fellow Churchgoers, every single person in her life that reinforced her delusion have blood on their hands. Some have specks, some are dripping, but they are all to blame.
Doesn't really contradict what I said.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 23, 2014, 04:45:54 PM
Science will be the vessel by which we describe new phenomena that are out there. Religion sure as Hell won't.
Yeah I know man. But what I'm saying is that its either possible or even quite likely that one day science will be able to explain phenomena that people usually attribute as being religious (stigmata, miraculous conception, origin of life, etc). Just like how people said that thunder&lightning, the progression of the seasons, night&day, lunar cycles, etc were religious phenomena once upon a time. Its a pretty common sentiment I've sure you've heard it expressed before, probably even in this thread, I'm too lazy to search through it though haha.
thunder&lightning, the progression of the seasons, night&day, lunar cycles, etc happen all the time, and we can observe them. Even where there was no explanation for them, there was proof of their existence.
With Stigmata, miraculous conception and other crap, there is absolutely ZERO proof of their existence, and all we know about our real world and its physics, even not being a lot, is enough to tell us that this phenomena are most likely improvable to ever happen or happened.
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" Douglas Adams
Most often than not, the person taking the scientific side of the argument and the person taking the faith-based come off entirely like two different alien species failing at communication. The former offers an empirical/logic-based argument, while the latter supports its beliefs with qualitative/faith-based rebuttals. The world is large and strange and full of contractions, but I'm not sure there is a point to these broad debates because the language barrier is just too thick to ever break through.
the point is not to convince the more faithful but to help people in the middle, not quite sure of what they believe, or that never even started to think about it, to do so. To think for themselves and use their rationality to come to their own conclusions.
And when you truly do so, there is only one outcome. (I don't need to say what this outcome is, do I ?)
Quote from: orchidal on Dec 29, 2014, 02:00:59 AM
Most often than not, the person taking the scientific side of the argument and the person taking the faith-based come off entirely like two different alien species failing at communication.
They're speaking different languages but saying the exact same thing and no one realizes it
Quote from: WIZARDSxNEVERxDIE on Dec 23, 2014, 06:10:43 PM
Yeah I know man. But what I'm saying is that its either possible or even quite likely that one day science will be able to explain phenomena that people usually attribute as being religious (stigmata, miraculous conception, origin of life, etc).
If and when that happens, unless we demonstrate that these phenomena occur because of Yahweh, we're not confirming Christianity, we're just pushing it further away. When we understood how lightning worked, it didn't confirm Thor, it made him seem more unlikely.
Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Dec 29, 2014, 02:07:28 AM
I don't need to say what this outcome is, do I ?
At the end of the day it shouldn't really matter unless it does.
Science will never entirely disprove God because a religious person will always run back to, "But God made it happen". If we're using science to disprove God, then it's a lost cause.
Which is kind of like criticizing a lawyers lack of culinary skills. That's not his f**king job. Science is used to explain, not to disprove.
Exactly. I like to think science tells us the how and why that is observable. If people want to believe it's God's work, nothing will stop them.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 29, 2014, 01:18:40 PM
Exactly. I like to think science tells us the how and why that is observable. If people want to believe it's God's work, nothing will stop them.
Agreed, but they kind of become fair game once they propose how and why God did it. It's all well and good to say "Zeus makes lightning", but when you add in "Via a process of extending his influence from Mt Olympus into three dimensional space to stimulate local weather activity", then you should expect to be treated like any other idiot who boldly struts into a laboratory with all the answers.
LOL, who said that?
You don't follow many Atheist Youtube channels I take it xD There are plenty of people jumping in to offer 'scientific' explanations of how God works, which usually just try to throw as many terms at you as they can, and most of them misused.
For instance, 'Miracles' are 'Any event which circumvents the established laws and limitations of physical reality', which would thusly require 'a being, force or entity both outside of this reality and capable of manipulating it'. This would make Jesus a 'conduit by which an Ultrarealian entity can process, understand and thus effectively govern a reality that is mechanically simpler'. So Jesus is basically a cypher, like how we made advanced mathematics to try and comprehend concepts that just boggle our heads. I asked the guy "Wait, doesn't this mean that Gods own creation does his head in?" "NO! Our Lord is perfect!" "But you just-" "f**k you!"
Only The Amazing Atheist and I typically only watch his videos on gender issues because ironically he sounds more measured in those videos as the rest of his stuff is angry ranting.
Yeah, most of the channels I used to sub to have been hijacked by that.
I've found the Religious channels to be more entertaining. Jason Burns, Richard Raspberry, GMan, Arcane Logos, Vekl, Matt Bell... they usually just sit around in Google Hangouts challenging Atheists to debates, and usually on of two (or both) things happens. They end up so twisted up by their own crazy logic that they end up saying or defending something absolutely deplorable and run off to make a few videos about how that isn't what they meant and everyone are lying, or share the hangout with another Christian long enough to start shouting at each other to repent and go make a few videos about how the other people involved aren't real Christians.
Seriously, some of these incidents have been hysterically surreal. Youtube a few of the names, you may fall down this rabbit hole of drama.
Link me, my good man, link me.
Oh joy, this will be fun.
Vekl, a black Theist who defends Biblical slavery and recently asked Atheists what was wrong with buying a kid an Xbox One in exchange for sexual favors. Keep in mind, he isn't saying he would do this, he wants to know the moral basis that Godless heathens use to determine this act immoral. (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6blKi5fhGQ-lDUroim18IA)
Jason Burns, an almost stereotypical simpleton with some mental health issues who considers himself a 'great academic scholar'. Faked his own suicide and appeared on camera with tomato sauce on his face claiming he'd been beaten by Atheists. Thinks there is a global conspiracy of Atheists trying to suppress his scholarly efforts. Leaves Youtube for realsies every other week and begins most of his videos with "I'm no longer on Youtube and I don't want to make this video" (http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBurnsShow)
Richard Raspberry, A compulsive liar and self published author Wasp on the Moon. Tends to call any Atheist that disagrees with him a child toucher or a cyber stalking. These accusations have lead to an Atheists children being beaten in real life. I'd highly recommend browsing the user reviews of his book on Amazon. Gotta love when someone debunking Evolution cites his own Hard Drive as a source. (http://www.youtube.com/user/mexicandruglord)
Arcane Logos, tends to sit in hangouts slurring out rehearsed scripts. If you take him off the script, he seems incapable of human speech. Comes across as a real hood raised stoner thug who spent an afternoon watching Ken Ham and Sye Ten Bruggencate and declared himself a genius. Believes birds propel themselves by breathing through the front side and shooting the air out of their ass, that binary is 4 digits, that the Ark of the Covenant is an ancient power source, and that DNA is made out of microscopic literal computers. (http://www.youtube.com/user/3theghost/feed)
Matt Bell, a Scottish vegetable in a nursing home who ironically practices the No True Scotsman Fallacy quite often. Big promoter of the Kalam Cosmological Argument, though he does tear into fellow Christians just as much as Atheists. All around c**t, really. (http://www.youtube.com/user/scotsmanmatt67)
Most of these guys and their favorite Atheist enemies tend to mingle and have beef, so you'll probably get an idea of who is who if you really want to. I was watching from the start, so I know most of this tangled web, but I imagine it's a bit of a mess to jump into right now. Enjoy the show!
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 29, 2014, 01:51:39 PM
Only The Amazing Atheist and I typically only watch his videos on gender issues because ironically he sounds more measured in those videos as the rest of his stuff is angry ranting.
The Amazing Atheist is a repugnant ass-clown (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/TheAmazingAtheist)
Quote from: Gilfryd on Dec 30, 2014, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Dec 29, 2014, 01:51:39 PM
Only The Amazing Atheist and I typically only watch his videos on gender issues because ironically he sounds more measured in those videos as the rest of his stuff is angry ranting.
The Amazing Atheist is a repugnant ass-clown (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/TheAmazingAtheist)
Quote"sometimes misogynistic tirades (which include blaming rape victims and suicide victims)"
*yawn*
I don't particularly like TJ that much, but when the f**k did Rationalwiki turn into a Skepchick rant blog? TJ is crude, yeah, and he says intentionally offensive stuff, but I hardly think wearing your moral outrage like a badge of honor is befitting of something with 'Rational' in it's title.
I'm pretty sure it's a site run by the same morons who believe in Atheism+ and FreeThoughtBlogs which would explain their lack of intelligence.
Ugh.
I think I just heard the best smackdown of the theory of Evolution ever.
"If it's an Animal 'KINGDOM', then why is there no KING?!"
I am dead f**king serious. A breathing human being with a working brain stem actually said this, and seemed very proud of it.
Lol, where was that?
GMan. He has some wonderful arguments sometimes. Some of his highlights...
"There's no such thing as Atheists, because God is defined as a final authority, and you decide to go to work in the morning, making you your own God and a Theist"
"Atheists can't ever use the No True Scotsman Fallacy again because I pretended to convert to Atheism and no one believed me". Keep in mind, most were skeptical but supportive of him.
Just tell the man you're a Satanist. He'll probably never speak with you again.
He believes all Atheists are Satanists. Ya know, those people he thinks don't exist. He's also the second black Christian on Youtube I've seen to devoutly defend slavery.
Well, technically Satanists are atheists. They only believe in God insofar as to criticize Christianity. Satanism is atheism, by default.
All bagels are bread, but not all bread is bagels.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jan 02, 2015, 03:12:39 PM
Well, technically Satanists are atheists. They only believe in God insofar as to criticize Christianity. Satanism is atheism, by default.
Depends on the Satanism you're talking about.
I refer to LaVeyan or atheistic Satanism when I reference Satanism.
Might want to specify. It's not always obvious.
Quote from: Gilfryd on Dec 30, 2014, 07:31:37 PM
The Amazing Atheist is a repugnant ass-clown (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/TheAmazingAtheist)
He's absolutely a f**king douche, but not even for the reasons listed there.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Jan 05, 2015, 05:12:10 PM
Might want to specify. It's not always obvious.
Arcadian Luciferianism fo lyf.
I never really understood the intense hatred TJ triggers in people. The guy is loud and sometimes rather obnoxious but good heavens, you'd think he was a bloody Nazi the way people come after him.
Mate, I'm as atheistic as they come. The guy is just an ass regardless of your beliefs. He parrots some good points here and there, I'll give him that, but in general he's a self-righteous dick.
Personally, I find Cult of Dusty far more annoying then TJ. As far as I know, TJ never made a video about going to Mexico, seeing Christian protestors a block away from his hotel and saying "Oh hell no" and going out of his way to harass them.
It's more the fact that, like many atheists these days, there's a huge element of holier-than-thou, saving people from themselves shit. If you're not religious, stop trying to convert everyone.
That I can agree with. I'm guilty of it myself at times.
I've been there, man. Realizing that it's not your job to enlighten people is important though, life suddenly becomes a lot easier and much more pleasant.
Yeah, I got a brother who believes in all kinds of woo nonsense, and it's become so problematic to talk about that I'm learning to just live and let live with him. I mean, I just called him for his birthday and we spent an hour yelling at each other about ego death and existence beyond death.
Quotewoo
Quoteproblematic
Getting your opinions from the internet is dangerous, man. Especially from youtubers and bloggers.
What do you mean? I assume you mean the way he gets his info is the problem, but that can be read as me dismissing his silly beliefs being small minded.
Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Jan 06, 2015, 01:36:36 PM
Quotewoo
Quoteproblematic
Getting your opinions from the internet is dangerous, man. Especially from youtubers and bloggers.
Not necessarily. If what you're reading/watching is well-referenced and sourced, then it provides a means of learning more.
Quote from: Sabby on Jan 06, 2015, 01:39:39 PM
What do you mean? I assume you mean the way he gets his info is the problem, but that can be read as me dismissing his silly beliefs being small minded.
I mean you've got a worrying amount of jingoism going on there. And despite trying to take a more relaxed approach with your brother, you still managed to spend an hour arguing with him. On his birthday. Think about that for a second.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jan 06, 2015, 01:51:29 PM
Not necessarily. If what you're reading/watching is well-referenced and sourced, then it provides a means of learning more.
While you're technically correct, the noise-to-signal ratio is not in favour of finding anything other than fedora-tippers and fundies, both of whom should shut the f**k up.
That's when you just have to learn to pick and choose what's good and what isn't. Thunderf00t's great like that. He never disappoints with his commentary and his evidence.
I have to admit, I worry about the cults of personality that inherently build up around internet personalities, when those people are imparting philosophy rather than something mundane such as vidya reviews. I really think reading the source material for yourself and forming your own independent opinions is important with this kinda thing. I recall reading that you take issue with the modern iteration of Feminism, DoomRuls, and feel the need to point out that that's another facet of the same media machine we're now talking about. People listening to e-celebs and bloggers instead of doing traditional research and engaging in introspection.
I do conduct my own research as well as listen to what others have to say. That's how a smart person forms an opinion or an idea. It's the morons who hear one tidbit and run with it as gospel that we need to watch out for.
So, like, the majority of people? I'm most definitely not accusing you of anything btw, it's just that I see an awful lot of people latching on to one or two vocal individuals and/or sharing/repeating anything that appears to fit their chosen agenda, often without comprehending or sometimes even reading the content as long as the title excites them. It's totally put me off reading or watching the musings of any "amateur" philosophers (along with most of them being f**king tools) who wax belligerent on the nature of existence through their blog or channel, and anyone who is worth listening to on the subject doesn't go by handles like Thunderf00t or The Amazing Atheist, they're publishing real work under their real names.
Well, some people are just lazy like that. In regards to publishing material, if we're talking about YouTube channels, some people prefer anonymity like that or using a name like TAA or thunderf00t is catchier than T.J. Kirk or Phil Mason. TF does publish actual studies and such using his real name, FYI.
Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Jan 06, 2015, 01:57:21 PM
I mean you've got a worrying amount of jingoism going on there. And despite trying to take a more relaxed approach with your brother, you still managed to spend an hour arguing with him. On his birthday. Think about that for a second.
Dude, it's all he talks about. Your options are smile and nod until he's done, or actually engage him and get him hyperventilating with stress within 5 minutes. He's allergic to questions, but he does nothing but assert opinions. How the f**k do you deal with someone like that?
Smiling and nodding, and gently attempting to steer the conversation away from metaphysics (to, I dunno, baseball or cooking or something), is about all you can do. If he's that opinionated but can't deal with critique, the answer is to not engage him on subjects you disagree on. It may be worth mentioning to him that you value your relationship over being right, and if he feels the same he should tone it down a notch or three. If he doesn't, well, at least you've got your answer...
*edit*
And Doom, didn't know he published work under his real name too. If I'm being honest I was totally judging a book by its cover, but considering how much I'd had to drink last night I'm impressed I could type at all. ::)
Point being, I really did not appreciate the implication that I create or encourage this conflict. I don't know if that's how you meant it, but that's how it can read.
Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Jan 06, 2015, 09:03:47 PM
*edit*
And Doom, didn't know he published work under his real name too. If I'm being honest I was totally judging a book by its cover, but considering how much I'd had to drink last night I'm impressed I could type at all. ::)
Drunken wanker, mind your Ps and Qs!
Quote from: Sabby on Jan 06, 2015, 09:32:25 PM
Point being, I really did not appreciate the implication that I create or encourage this conflict. I don't know if that's how you meant it, but that's how it can read.
There's a very good chance you do in fact encourage it, without realizing it. Just like he probably doesn't realize what a tosspot he's being.
@ Doom
Yeah, that's, well, that's kinda my M.O.
Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Jan 07, 2015, 01:19:27 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Jan 06, 2015, 09:32:25 PM
Point being, I really did not appreciate the implication that I create or encourage this conflict. I don't know if that's how you meant it, but that's how it can read.
There's a very good chance you do in fact encourage it, without realizing it. Just like he probably doesn't realize what a tosspot he's being.
@ Doom
Yeah, that's, well, that's kinda my M.O.
Trust me man, if you knew this guy, you wouldn't think so. I get what you mean, and in most cases, you're totally right, but not here. He really is just that mental.
Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Jan 07, 2015, 01:19:27 AM
Quote from: Sabby on Jan 06, 2015, 09:32:25 PM
Point being, I really did not appreciate the implication that I create or encourage this conflict. I don't know if that's how you meant it, but that's how it can read.
There's a very good chance you do in fact encourage it, without realizing it. Just like he probably doesn't realize what a tosspot he's being.
@ Doom
Yeah, that's, well, that's kinda my M.O.
That, and providing me with hilarious new insults :D :D :D "tosspot"
Caught this the other night and edited it out.
Welp, Cracked went after The Amazing Atheist, and his response is just too good not to post. We've talked about him in the past and I was pretty on the fence about him, but he's really won me over.
Terrific video, especially the last few minutes. TJ is a good guy. Cracked can bite the big one.
Yeah, he has a way of wording himself that I'm really envious of. That last part resonated with me, man.
Just for fun, this is a story written by Bertrand Russell, a philosopher, mathematician, logician and British writer winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature and known for his influence on analytic philosophy, his mathematical work and his social activism.
The Theologian's Nightmare
by Bertrand Russell
(from Fact and Fiction, 1961)
The eminent theologian Dr. Thaddeus dreamt that he died and pursued his course toward heaven. His studies had prepared him and he had no difficulty in finding the way. He knocked at the door of heaven, and was met with a closer scrutiny than he expected. "I ask admission," he said, "because I was a good man and devoted my life to the glory of God." "Man?" said the janitor, "What is that? And how could such a funny creature as you do anything to promote the glory of God?" Dr. Thaddeus was astonished. "You surely cannot be ignorant of man. You must be aware that man is the supreme work of the Creator." "As to that," said the janitor, "I am sorry to hurt your feelings, but what you're saying is news to me. I doubt if anybody up here has ever heard of this thing you call 'man.' However, since you seem distressed, you shall have a chance of consulting our librarian."
The librarian, a globular being with a thousand eyes and one mouth, bent some of his eyes upon Dr. Thaddeus. "What is this?" he asked the janitor. "This," replied the janitor, "says that it is a member of a species called 'man,' which lives in a place called 'Earth.' It has some odd notion that the Creator takes a special interest in this place and this species. I thought perhaps you could enlighten it." "Well," said the librarian kindly to the theologian, "perhaps you can tall me where this place is that you call 'Earth.'" "Oh," said the theologian, "it's part of the Solar System." "And what is the Solar System?" asked the librarian. "Oh," said the theologian, somewhat disconcerted, "my province was Sacred Knowledge, but the question that you are asking belongs to profane knowledge. However, I have learnt enough from my astronomical friends to be able to tell you that the Solar System is part of the Milky Way." "And what is the Milky Way?" asked the librarian. "Oh, the Milky Way is one of the Galaxies, of which, I am told, there are some hundred million." "Well, well," said the librarian, "you could hardly expect me to remember one out of so many. But I do remember to have heard the word galaxy' before. In fact, I believe that one of our sub-librarians specializes in galaxies. Let us send for him and see whether he can help."
After no very long time, the galactic sub-librarian made his appearance. In shape, he was a dodecahedron. It was clear that at one time his surface had been bright, but the dust of the shelves had rendered him dim and opaque. The librarian explained to him that Dr. Thaddeus, in endeavoring to account for his origin, had mentioned galaxies, and it was hoped that information could be obtained from the galactic section of the library. "Well," said the sub-librarian, "I suppose it might become possible in time, but as there are a hundred million galaxies, and each has a volume to itself, it takes some time to find any particular volume. Which is it that this odd molecule desires?" "It is the one called 'The Milky Way,'" Dr. Thaddeus falteringly replied. "All right," said the sub- librarian, "I will find it if I can."
Some three weeks later, he returned, explaining that the extraordinarily efficient card index in the galactic section of the library had enabled him to locate the galaxy as number QX 321,762. "We have employed," he said, "all the five thousand clerks in the galactic section on this search. Perhaps you would like to see the clerk who is specially concerned with the galaxy in question?" The clerk was sent for and turned out to be an octahedron with an eye in each face and a mouth in one of them. He was surprised and dazed to find himself in such a glittering region, away from the shadowy limbo of his shelves. Pulling himself together, he asked, rather shyly, "What is it you wish to know about my galaxy?" Dr. Thaddeus spoke up: "What I want is to know about the Solar System, a collection of heavenly bodies revolving about one of the stars in your galaxy. The star about which they revolve is called 'the Sun.'" "Humph," said the librarian of the Milky Way, "it was hard enough to hit upon the right galaxy, but to hit upon the right star in the galaxy is far more difficult. I know that there are about three hundred billion stars in the galaxy, but I have no knowledge, myself, that would distinguish one of them from another. I believe, however, that at one time a list of the whole three hundred billion was demanded by the Administration and that it is still stored in the basement. If you think it worth while, I will engage special labor from the Other Place to search for this particular star."
It was agreed that, since the question had arisen and since Dr. Thaddeus was evidently suffering some distress, this might be the wisest course.
Several years later, a very weary and dispirited tetrahedron presented himself before the galactic sub-librarian. "I have," he said, "at last discovered the particular star concerning which inquiries have been made, but I am quite at a loss to imagine why it has aroused any special interest. It closely resembles a great many other stars in the same galaxy. It is of average size and temperature, and is surrounded by very much smaller bodies called 'planets.' After minute investigation, I discovered that some, at least, of these planets have parasites, and I think that this thing which has been making inquiries must be one of them."
At this point, Dr. Thaddeus burst out in a passionate and indignant lament: "Why, oh why, did the Creator conceal from us poor inhabitants of Earth that it was not we who prompted Him to create the Heavens? Throughout my long life, I have served Him diligently, believing that He would notice my service and reward me with Eternal Bliss. And now, it seems that He was not even aware that I existed. You tell me that I am an infinitesimal animalcule on a tiny body revolving round an insignificant member of a collection of three hundred billion stars, which is only one of many millions of such collections. I cannot bear it, and can no longer adore my Creator." "Very well," said the janitor, "then you can go to the Other Place." Here the theologian awoke.
"The power of Satan over our sleeping imagination is terrifying," he muttered.
I loved that. It serves as a powerful reminder of just how insignificant we are in this vast universe of ours. Also, Hail Satan! Believe it or not, Satanism spouts just that message: you are but one microbe in the universe. Don't worry about the afterlife and just enjoy your life in the here and now.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.org%2F4j5kb43vn%2F2015_07_28_10_44_58_Don_talks_about_murderers_an.jpg&hash=06062d0daeede470d1f0dcded8786fd69cb4623b)
What the hell happened to AE? :/ I used to look up to these guys.
It's FreeThoughtBlogs, the most ironically-named site on the web. This Mitchell person is very naive in his discussion.
That's me. They later responded with "We don't have to explain it to you"
Oh well then. Check out Thunderf00t's series on feminism in atheism if you're wondering where they went wrong. It outlines it pretty exhaustively. It started with the Elevatorgate fiasco.
Good. This thread is still going.
So is faith/belief/spirituality all just a result of us humans having too much time on our hands?
Spoiler
Like right now, I only ask this because I have nothing else to do. :laugh:
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 16, 2015, 12:31:56 PM
I loved that. It serves as a powerful reminder of just how insignificant we are in this vast universe of ours. Also, Hail Satan! Believe it or not, Satanism spouts just that message: you are but one microbe in the universe. Don't worry about the afterlife and just enjoy your life in the here and now.
From a Christian perspective, that's not him being nice, that's him feeding you a rope to hang yourself from. Kind of like a cosmic loan shark.
How?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 29, 2015, 10:46:39 PM
How?
From a christian perspective (I'm not Christian), heaven/afterlife is real, and so for someone to encourage others to just ignore it
IS to let them hang themselves since actions/faith in life determine the state of being after death.
Fair enough. But since we don't actually know if either is real, stop worrying about it and enjoy your time on Earth. If you don't harm anyone and there is a heaven after all, then you'll be just fine.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 29, 2015, 11:43:55 PM
...stop worrying about it and enjoy your time on Earth.
But with 7 billion people, a substantial amount won't see it this way. Some beliefs require active devotion, and some people can ONLY enjoy their lives living like this, and so when others come struttin' along with Satan's advice, it can be off putting. No different than an atheist feeling out of place in a church where everyone else has got the holy spirit flowing in them. My point is simply not everyone worries about it or carries the attitude that it's a chore/obligation, and the afterlife can be the focus of a life worth living.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 29, 2015, 11:43:55 PM
If you don't harm anyone and there is a heaven after all, then you'll be just fine.
Very little, if anything, works how we think it should work or expect it to work.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 29, 2015, 11:43:55 PM
But since we don't actually know if either is real...
What constitutes proof varies by person and ideology. Some people do know....
And....some people neither want nor need proof. I would even add that "definite proof" of an afterlife or heaven/hell would be devastating. The very antithesis of faith.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 29, 2015, 11:43:55 PM
Fair enough. But since we don't actually know if either is real, stop worrying about it and enjoy your time on Earth. If you don't harm anyone and there is a heaven after all, then you'll be just fine.
But what do you mean by 'harm anyone?' I would argue that, even in the slightest of ways, we harm people everyday.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Jul 30, 2015, 12:21:48 AM
I would argue that, even in the slightest of ways, we harm people everyday.
Certainly, but unless we can see all the details, see all that results now and in the distant future, can we really say we are doing harm?
If we are doing slight harm, can't it also be possible that we are doing slight good, or even that some of the harm we do becomes good, in the long run? I would think this delicate balance must be the case or we'd not be here.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:34:58 AM
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Jul 30, 2015, 12:21:48 AM
I would argue that, even in the slightest of ways, we harm people everyday.
Certainly, but unless we can see all the details, see all that results now and in the distant future, can we really say we are doing harm?
If we are doing slight harm, can't it also be possible that we are doing slight good, or even that some of the harm we do becomes good, in the long run? I would think this delicate balance must be the case or we'd not be here.
Maybe not massive harm, but every little bit does have an impact. As far as doing good, that is true as well, although all of this is very much dependent on individuals' personalities. The main point is that it's a something of a slippery slope when anyone says that they are 'good' in a generic fashion, though most people have done it at least once in their lives. It can lead to a degree of sloth that allows people to gloss over their inherent failings, whatever they may be.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 29, 2015, 11:43:55 PM
...stop worrying about it and enjoy your time on Earth.
But with 7 billion people, a substantial amount won't see it this way. Some beliefs require active devotion, and some people can ONLY enjoy their lives living like this, and so when others come struttin' along with Satan's advice, it can be off putting. No different than an atheist feeling out of place in a church where everyone else has got the holy spirit flowing in them. My point is simply not everyone worries about it or carries the attitude that it's a chore/obligation, and the afterlife can be the focus of a life worth living.
If they feel like the only way they can live is by devoting their lives to an imaginary sky man who watches over their every move, then they haven't been reading much. Also, it's not "Satan's advice". LaVeyan Satanism at its core is glorified atheism. The name only exists as a means of provocation.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 29, 2015, 11:43:55 PM
If you don't harm anyone and there is a heaven after all, then you'll be just fine.
Very little, if anything, works how we think it should work or expect it to work.
What do you mean?
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 29, 2015, 11:43:55 PM
But since we don't actually know if either is real...
What constitutes proof varies by person and ideology. Some people do know....
Oh I have to hear this. Who knows with 100% certainty that Heaven and Hell exist, as described in religious scripture?
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
And....some people neither want nor need proof. I would even add that "definite proof" of an afterlife or heaven/hell would be devastating. The very antithesis of faith.
Faith is meaningless to begin with. It was only created as a means to control people anyway. Once you let go of false ideas and fairy tale dreaming, your life becomes that much less stressful.
@Doom
I don't expect you to have the same basis of understanding as I do, so I'll explain my posts in more detail.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 02:03:23 AM
If they feel like the only way they can live is by devoting their lives to an imaginary sky man who watches over their every move, then they haven't been reading much. Also, it's not "Satan's advice". LaVeyan Satanism at its core is glorified atheism. The name only exists as a means of provocation.
When I comment in this thread, I'm rarely referring to the stereotypical western-world sky wizard. Devotion is just a generic way of saying
a person spends most of their focus away from worldly affairs (naturally, this often takes the form of a holy/spiritual path). Deny a person accustomed to this their way of life and they may be miserable (or not at all, depending on how developed they are).
As for satan, I understand him as more of a force, or an office, meaning his influence only has to be called out for what it is.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 02:03:23 AM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
Very little, if anything, works how we think it should work or expect it to work.
What do you mean?
I mean when it comes to heaven and hell, I don't believe any widely adopted religions offer useful understanding of either. The reward for being good, punishment for being bad, I think is convenient and incomplete. Bad things obviously happen to good people, and vice versa, and regardless of how many people think good people will get goods things, and bad people, bad things, in an absolute sense, it is not an accurate representation of reality, and causes people to ignore what they can do for themselves because they've been lead to believe some invisible thing is taking score and will compensate them.
But let us say that heaven or hell must be journeyed to and the state of our being determines our ability to access them, rather than some cosmic judge dropping us off somewhere at his subjective whim. To some extent, we control how we are, and if we can change ourselves, we can possibly heal ourselves, pull the thorns out of our psychology, out of our souls. I think a self aware person that can do this has a better chance.
Heaven and hell, I'm saying there is no judgement, rather it's a phenomena. The old saying, "as above, so below", if you leave things to chance in life, you get a random result, why wouldn't it be the same in death? Like panning for gold, some of the material sinks, the gold, the black sand, some of it floats up to the surface, and life is an opportunity to offload our junk, but we can get heavier or stay the same, too.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 02:03:23 AM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
What constitutes proof varies by person and ideology. Some people do know....
Oh I have to hear this. Who knows with 100% certainty that Heaven and Hell exist, as described in religious scripture?
What I said is more akin to the difference between believing someone, and believing that they believe what they're saying.
There are people who have seen orbs and other unexplainable stuff, mentally ill people absolutely convinced of what they think is happening, what they think they know, and so on. I know that these people "know"....
I just accept human experience as a sole contributor to life, rather than objective reality. You can brain wash children with lies, and, neurologically, complete gibberish may have no distinction from validated facts in the minds of others.
Also, I made no mention of religious scripture...
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 02:03:23 AM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
And....some people neither want nor need proof. I would even add that "definite proof" of an afterlife or heaven/hell would be devastating. The very antithesis of faith.
Faith is meaningless to begin with. It was only created as a means to control people anyway. Once you let go of false ideas and fairy tale dreaming, your life becomes that much less stressful.
But faith of what? It doesn't have to be of god or heaven, and letting go of many things is certainly a large part of most spiritual paths.
Good and evil are equals; you can not have one without the other. That is one thing the bible is great at conveying but people flat out ignore that important message. To think about how much harm is done because of ones need to be good. Everything every single person does has a component of good and evil.
Still there is a difference between philosophy and faith and for some reason people can't figure it out.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 04:14:24 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 02:03:23 AM
If they feel like the only way they can live is by devoting their lives to an imaginary sky man who watches over their every move, then they haven't been reading much. Also, it's not "Satan's advice". LaVeyan Satanism at its core is glorified atheism. The name only exists as a means of provocation.
When I comment in this thread, I'm rarely referring to the stereotypical western-world sky wizard. Devotion is just a generic way of saying a person spends most of their focus away from worldly affairs (naturally, this often takes the form of a holy/spiritual path). Deny a person accustomed to this their way of life and they may be miserable (or not at all, depending on how developed they are).
To deny a person would mean someone is forcing them away from it. I don't want to force anyone away from anything. What I'm saying is that if a person really feels as though this is all there is to it, then they haven't done much exploring. There's so much more beyond what a book written 5 000 years ago will tell you. It's willful ignorance and I think that's shameful.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 04:14:24 AM
As for satan, I understand him as more of a force, or an office, meaning his influence only has to be called out for what it is.
The only "influence" here is enjoying your life and doing what makes you happy as long as you don't harm anyone in the process. Harm in this instance means actually hurting someone with lasting repercussions; not a kid's parents crying because he masturbated at the age of 14 and now they think God is going to punish them.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
I mean when it comes to heaven and hell, I don't believe any widely adopted religions offer useful understanding of either. The reward for being good, punishment for being bad, I think is convenient and incomplete. Bad things obviously happen to good people, and vice versa, and regardless of how many people think good people will get goods things, and bad people, bad things, in an absolute sense, it is not an accurate representation of reality, and causes people to ignore what they can do for themselves because they've been lead to believe some invisible thing is taking score and will compensate them.
So you admit then that these false ideas are resulting in people who lead selfish and deterministic lives.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
But let us say that heaven or hell must be journeyed to and the state of our being determines our ability to access them, rather than some cosmic judge dropping us off somewhere at his subjective whim. To some extent, we control how we are, and if we can change ourselves, we can possibly heal ourselves, pull the thorns out of our psychology, out of our souls. I think a self aware person that can do this has a better chance.
Which is why I maintain that a person can create his personal heaven and hell right here, on this plane of existence. You are, in large part, in control of your life.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
What I said is more akin to the difference between believing someone, and believing that they believe what they're saying.
There are people who have seen orbs and other unexplainable stuff, mentally ill people absolutely convinced of what they think is happening, what they think they know, and so on. I know that these people "know"....
Most of the time, whatever they saw can be explained with basic scientific observation. If they're mentally ill, you can write off any "observation" they've had immediately.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AMI just accept human experience as a sole contributor to life, rather than objective reality. You can brain wash children with lies, and, neurologically, complete gibberish may have no distinction from validated facts in the minds of others.
Those sorts of people are fools. They allow themselves to be manipulated.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
But faith of what? It doesn't have to be of god or heaven, and letting go of many things is certainly a large part of most spiritual paths.
Faith in this instance refers to faith in a higher being. You don't need faith when it comes to reality. I don't have faith that four meals a day is good for me because I objectively know it to be true.
This is exactly why I can't get behind the 'liberal Christian' mindset. It must be a massive cognitive dissonance to have to live a rational and peaceful mortal existence while also holding beliefs of an eternal afterlife. How exactly does someone reach that level of compartmentalizing and not split their brain in half? It gets to the point where I actually kind of have to respect scumf**ks like the WBC more for honestly representing their dogma, rather then holding a Bible in one hand and saying it doesn't condemn X, Y or Z.
That's not to say I'd want all reasonable Christians to double down and become WBC members, I just they're dishonest.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jul 30, 2015, 07:14:54 AM
Good and evil are equals; you can not have one without the other. That is one thing the bible is great at conveying but people flat out ignore that important message. To think about how much harm is done because of ones need to be good. Everything every single person does has a component of good and evil.
Still there is a difference between philosophy and faith and for some reason people can't figure it out.
And how exactly does the Bible convey this message?
You ever read the thing? :o
Every plasma is hope mired in despair. You know, the whole he loves you but you're going to hell for being human.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 01:20:45 PM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 04:14:24 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 02:03:23 AM
If they feel like the only way they can live is by devoting their lives to an imaginary sky man who watches over their every move, then they haven't been reading much. Also, it's not "Satan's advice". LaVeyan Satanism at its core is glorified atheism. The name only exists as a means of provocation.
When I comment in this thread, I'm rarely referring to the stereotypical western-world sky wizard. Devotion is just a generic way of saying a person spends most of their focus away from worldly affairs (naturally, this often takes the form of a holy/spiritual path). Deny a person accustomed to this their way of life and they may be miserable (or not at all, depending on how developed they are).
To deny a person would mean someone is forcing them away from it. I don't want to force anyone away from anything. What I'm saying is that if a person really feels as though this is all there is to it, then they haven't done much exploring. There's so much more beyond what a book written 5 000 years ago will tell you. It's willful ignorance and I think that's shameful.
I agree with this.
I will add that even people that have been exposed to a lot can still find worldly matters unrewarding. I think you have only ever seen religion/spirituality in an external/structured way. It be personalized very easily. Some people even spiritualize daily activities. It can even be practiced like kegels.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 01:20:45 PM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 04:14:24 AM
As for satan, I understand him as more of a force, or an office, meaning his influence only has to be called out for what it is.
The only "influence" here is enjoying your life and doing what makes you happy as long as you don't harm anyone in the process. Harm in this instance means actually hurting someone with lasting repercussions; not a kid's parents crying because he masturbated at the age of 14 and now they think God is going to punish them.
I have experienced enough to know that there are subtle influences acting on all of us. Whether they are sentient or not, I do not know. But some of them have unseen consequences spanning years, decades, and so on, and some of them are, to me, Satan.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 01:20:45 PM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
I mean when it comes to heaven and hell, I don't believe any widely adopted religions offer useful understanding of either. The reward for being good, punishment for being bad, I think is convenient and incomplete. Bad things obviously happen to good people, and vice versa, and regardless of how many people think good people will get goods things, and bad people, bad things, in an absolute sense, it is not an accurate representation of reality, and causes people to ignore what they can do for themselves because they've been lead to believe some invisible thing is taking score and will compensate them.
So you admit then that these false ideas are resulting in people who lead selfish and deterministic lives.
Yes.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 01:20:45 PM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
But let us say that heaven or hell must be journeyed to and the state of our being determines our ability to access them, rather than some cosmic judge dropping us off somewhere at his subjective whim. To some extent, we control how we are, and if we can change ourselves, we can possibly heal ourselves, pull the thorns out of our psychology, out of our souls. I think a self aware person that can do this has a better chance.
Which is why I maintain that a person can create his personal heaven and hell right here, on this plane of existence. You are, in large part, in control of your life.
A person can both enjoy life and feel prepared for after death. It's just a balancing act.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 01:20:45 PM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
What I said is more akin to the difference between believing someone, and believing that they believe what they're saying.
There are people who have seen orbs and other unexplainable stuff, mentally ill people absolutely convinced of what they think is happening, what they think they know, and so on. I know that these people "know"....
Most of the time, whatever they saw can be explained with basic scientific observation. If they're mentally ill, you can write off any "observation" they've had immediately.
I like the idea that magic is science not yet understood. I was saying that life is largely what we think it is, not all of it, but a lot. I was also saying that I can know what a mentally ill person is saying may be impossible, but also know that they know what they saw. I see no contradiction in that.
Finally truth/knowledge within a person does not have a distinction between truth/knowledge in a person that also has external/universal validation (at least, only while looking in that person).
See this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchhausen_trilemma
Extra credit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_box
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 01:20:45 PM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AMI just accept human experience as a sole contributor to life, rather than objective reality. You can brain wash children with lies, and, neurologically, complete gibberish may have no distinction from validated facts in the minds of others.
Those sorts of people are fools. They allow themselves to be manipulated.
Kids are fools for believing what adults tell them? :laugh:
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 30, 2015, 01:20:45 PM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 30, 2015, 12:19:27 AM
But faith of what? It doesn't have to be of god or heaven, and letting go of many things is certainly a large part of most spiritual paths.
Faith in this instance refers to faith in a higher being. You don't need faith when it comes to reality. I don't have faith that four meals a day is good for me because I objectively know it to be true.
I use faith and hope synonymously. I looked up the difference between the two and didn't care much for what I saw. I just know that I hold beliefs, thoughts, intentions, etc, that help me, and this is not what I'm talking about at all:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmovietvtechgeeks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F05%2Fcarrie-movie-best-horror-for-mothers-day-images-2015.jpg&hash=442ff4023eed0ff16331fcfe0551d565a13eb10e)
Quote from: Sabby on Jul 30, 2015, 02:32:03 PM
And how exactly does the Bible convey this message?
"The lord giveth and the lord taketh away. "
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
I'm sure the message exists, I'm just not seeing how it, or any other message in the Bible, is conveyed well. In my experience, any one lesson a reader takes away from it, another reader can come to the exact opposite conclusion. I don't get the impression that it teaches good and evil as equal forces at all, just that you better damn well make sure God gets the glory for everything that ever happens ever.
Christianity is not a liberal religion by today's standards, but neither is it conservative. There are aspects of it which could be considered quite conservative (sexuality, piety, self-control), and parts that could be considered liberal (scorn for greed and materialism, respect for the environment). Note that I am talking about Christianity how it was practiced before the Reformation; Protestantism introduced alot of elements that weren't originally present.
I can agree with that, but it doesn't change the cognitive dissonance required to hold those beliefs and not be a scumf**k.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Jul 31, 2015, 02:18:35 AM
Christianity is not a liberal religion by today's standards, but neither is it conservative. There are aspects of it which could be considered quite conservative (sexuality, piety, self-control), and parts that could be considered liberal (scorn for greed and materialism, respect for the environment). Note that I am talking about Christianity how it was practiced before the Reformation; Protestantism introduced alot of elements that weren't originally present.
true.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYk1rmdF.jpg&hash=e428f6880360bd72444574671ee2b780afd411f7)
My faith in God is mostly based on his capacity of solving my big and not-so problems. No, seriously, for instance, I just pray to get a good mark in university. And IT WORKS! Of course it can be coincidential. But it's worked so many times that i can't just ignore it.
I was reading the Bible properly last time maybe about 7-10 years ago, i think. Yeah, i really don't dig much in what i believe. So my pretty simple religion knowledge is: I believe that there's God, that he created universe, Earth, humanity, that his son sacrificied himself to save us all from being automatically sent to hell for smallest sin and that one day he will come back to judge us. I'm not too keen on concept of heaven though. I'd prefer my soul dissolve in space after my death rather than going to some place for another but eternal life. I find that really exausting. Is it really necessary to die just to live forever in endless pleasure and entertainment (that's how i imagine heaven) ?
He-he, why am i so sure that i won't be sent to hell instead?
Not sure that i put this ^^^ in the right topic but whatever...
QuoteNo, seriously, for instance, I just pray to get a good mark in university. And IT WORKS!
Do you not study?
Yeah, god helps those who help themselves etc. I think you're getting those marks from studying, if the big guy is involved he's just happy you're doing well.
Quote from: SM on Jun 20, 2019, 09:28:43 PM
QuoteNo, seriously, for instance, I just pray to get a good mark in university. And IT WORKS!
Do you not study?
Hey, "D" is for "Diploma" right?
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jun 20, 2019, 10:24:00 PM
Yeah, god helps those who help themselves etc.
Truth. I'd say God presents opportunities for us, but we have to physically make something of them. Sometimes we have to make it through trials solely on our own, and it's best to be prepared for when that happens.
Yeah, hi
This is where Lucifer peaked
False postive, in fact this isn't one of those sarcastic get phaggy sequences.
This is:
The first one feels like concept vanilla to me.
Quote from: Huggs on Jun 20, 2019, 11:31:10 PM
Quote from: SM on Jun 20, 2019, 09:28:43 PM
QuoteNo, seriously, for instance, I just pray to get a good mark in university. And IT WORKS!
Do you not study?
Hey, "D" is for "Diploma" right?
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jun 20, 2019, 10:24:00 PM
Yeah, god helps those who help themselves etc.
Truth. I'd say God presents opportunities for us, but we have to physically make something of them. Sometimes we have to make it through trials solely on our own, and it's best to be prepared for when that happens.
Fwiw, i'm not a believer myself, but my understanding of the concept is that it's got more to do with trying to be a good person than asking for divine intervention on your schoolwork
Quote from: SM on Jun 20, 2019, 09:28:43 PM
QuoteNo, seriously, for instance, I just pray to get a good mark in university. And IT WORKS!
Do you not study?
I study. And i study as hard as i can. Thanks >:(
And what i noticed: as harder you study as more you care about your marks.
So if you're to tie two types of knots, and the second one has to be different than the first, the first one would be called god, and the second one would be called psychopathy.
Quote from: Kradan on Jun 21, 2019, 03:58:03 PM
Quote from: SM on Jun 20, 2019, 09:28:43 PM
QuoteNo, seriously, for instance, I just pray to get a good mark in university. And IT WORKS!
Do you not study?
I study. And i study as hard as i can. Thanks >:(
And what i noticed: as harder you study as more you care about your marks.
Ergo...?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 21, 2019, 05:08:58 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Jun 21, 2019, 03:58:03 PM
Quote from: SM on Jun 20, 2019, 09:28:43 PM
QuoteNo, seriously, for instance, I just pray to get a good mark in university. And IT WORKS!
Do you not study?
I study. And i study as hard as i can. Thanks >:(
And what i noticed: as harder you study as more you care about your marks.
Ergo...?
I always found that the harder I studied, the quicker I passed out.
Zing!
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jun 21, 2019, 04:01:16 PM
So if you're to tie two types of knots, and the second one has to be different than the first, the first one would be called god, and the second one would be called psychopathy.
Ain't psycopath a debunked label replaced with other terms now?
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jun 22, 2019, 11:03:34 PM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jun 21, 2019, 04:01:16 PM
So if you're to tie two types of knots, and the second one has to be different than the first, the first one would be called god, and the second one would be called psychopathy.
Ain't psycopath a debunked label replaced with other terms now?
But it has such a nice ring to it.
Quote from: Huggs on Jun 22, 2019, 11:41:34 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jun 22, 2019, 11:03:34 PM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jun 21, 2019, 04:01:16 PM
So if you're to tie two types of knots, and the second one has to be different than the first, the first one would be called god, and the second one would be called psychopathy.
Ain't psycopath a debunked label replaced with other terms now?
But it has such a nice ring to it.
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50266.msg1903811#msg1903811
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jun 23, 2019, 12:20:35 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Jun 22, 2019, 11:41:34 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jun 22, 2019, 11:03:34 PM
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jun 21, 2019, 04:01:16 PM
So if you're to tie two types of knots, and the second one has to be different than the first, the first one would be called god, and the second one would be called psychopathy.
Ain't psycopath a debunked label replaced with other terms now?
But it has such a nice ring to it.
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50266.msg1903811#msg1903811
Took it.
You left out the Penomorph
That's the default one
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jun 24, 2019, 10:18:52 PM
That's the default one
As it should be. It's a good name. It's got some balls to it. :laugh:
Lmao.
https://youtu.be/iibnwMwpmiI
https://youtu.be/GYBW97Z4IMw
^ love it
The Matrix asked me to leave this here :-X
But in all seriousness it's based on a short story written by Andy Weir (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Egg_(2009_short_story)) (The Martian).
Thank you, thought you'd enjoy it.
I'm wondering what the best possibility is, assuming there are not equally good ones and that reality itself is unchanging.
I'm against the blind-faith thing out of principle, since I don't expect we can know with certainty what truly is, but if you can perceive a clear hypothetical "winner" reality, I think that has merit.
Thoughts?
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on May 13, 2020, 10:55:45 PM
I'm wondering what the best possibility is, assuming there are not equally good ones and that reality itself is unchanging.
I'm against the blind-faith thing out of principle, since I don't expect we can know with certainty what truly is, but if you can perceive a clear hypothetical "winner" reality, I think that has merit.
Thoughts?
I got stuck with two equally good and
equally likely realities. Is detachment best ???
Medication is best
I wasn't expecting to find a best reality; now I'm wondering why I thought best also meant the one in use.
By medication are you referring to hedonism?
Now what if there's a superior reality and inferior one that are both equally likely to be? Wait or get into science?
I've now decided that I have the right reality understood and that it is the one in place. To the awake, there is no self, only identifiablelessness consciousness. We are unable to know anything regarding past lives and there are no accomplishments great enough to bypass this, either. Love and mystery are far greater appreciated with this structuring. Going forwards, we may get hints of what is to come in another life, but as we don't actually cause it, the burden is not on us to understand. Those that believe other things are said to be dreaming. The entire English language is very apparently of dreams. Evil is not self aware and defaults to always doing something irrelevant. Eternal return was ruled out because sensations can be felt that dont match this system, and also because it's an insult, rotten even, to the good things that have happened to want them again.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 25, 2020, 08:27:18 PM
Medication is best
I don't think your recommendation was heeded.
So I had an opportunity to watch
The passion of the Christ as I've never seen it, but it began with subtitles so I opted out. Saw
Heaven is for real and I was right not to have high expectations of it (I read the book first, which was actually a better experience). I've had improbable experiences myself, but I think unexplainable phenomena is just something we don't understand but rationally explainable, or it's real but is intended not to be provable. I've come to not consider it very important. The only way to win is to not get sucked into life's strangeness in the first place.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 30, 2020, 08:49:36 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 25, 2020, 08:27:18 PM
Medication is best
I don't think your recommendation was heeded.
Actually what you were looking at
was the result of some horrible prescription I was on.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Aug 31, 2020, 12:11:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf_46kQKYWk
Psychonaut is how I'd describe what I do. Meditation takes me...places.
Has anyone ever had an interest in eschatology? Basically that's the destiny of humans or end outcome.
I was thinking we exist forever, although you can lose everything you know and that is enough to make you not the same person.
Except for what is permanent, there is no certainty of anything.
About freewill, I believe regardless if it can be defined, or aproximated and simulated, that when compared to simply accepting perception of freewill, no freewill, and everything inbetween, that even if one showed a better quality of life over an amount of time, with more time, the other would equal or exceed the other, and this could keep changing without answer or pattern. The question of having freewill or not, and which is better, is irrelevant, but knowing you can't do better than happenstance seems good to me.
One last thing I want to talk about is what I call the "continuation fantasy," and that is what it sounds like, dying but not losing it all. Specifically, this is regarding how you would handle a nuanced moral dilemma. There will be situations that you can't absolutely alter or prevent from presenting again, but, a finite amount of suffering from you may spare others from finite suffering and may lead to a good outcome or reward, if nothing else, it did spare others pain. But, in the context of forever, and no lessening to the frequency of this occurrence, and of continuation, would it effect your willingness to keep making the same choice? And the other interpretation, which just finds even engaging in undesirable situations undesirable, and it is felt there is a non negligable chance engaging them will result in experiencing more of them, so you wouldn't suffer for others.
Just thoughts I had when taking a walk today.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Oct 11, 2020, 01:29:57 AM
Psychonaut is how I'd describe what I do.
Yeah I read Carrol too. I do not wish to offend, but you frequently come across as maybe having pushed that too far?
I'm surprised considering how little I participate on this site that anyone could describe anything I do as frequent. I mean does anyone really see themselves? Hopefully it's not that bad.
________
I was contemplating eternal return again, and how it can never be known to be or not to be. The meaningful thing to do in response is to ask, what is perfection? I heard a theory we don't perceive reality. I didn't pay attention to the details, but had a thought that perhaps neutrality is better than pain or pleasure. Maybe pleasure is a deceptive pain, in addition to sometimes causing normal pain. Being nothingness isn't valid, so passage of time/existence is necessary, but the goal is to avoid the two. The advantage neutrality has, in addition to not being the questionable unknown pleasure is, is that it is not specific, so occam's razor. Less conditional, more elegant. If animals don't have rationality, humans don't have neutrality. Pleasure may be a dead end.
These are supposed to be biblically accurate angels, without the whole artistic romantization. I see them as mythological beings, and I am glad of that cos seriously, they look like Lovecraftian monsters. :laugh:
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 12, 2021, 12:48:47 AM
without the whole artistic romantization
That's exactly what this is though
Isn't this just "If Biblical angels were drawn like Evangelion angels"?
I'm here for it, but still, there's plenty of artistic romanticisation there.
Well, the seraph surely looks less romantic than this :laugh:
(https://i.ibb.co/ykMvB6n/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg)
And while one can see the ophanim, I am missing the cherub there. :-\
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 12, 2021, 04:00:27 PM
Well, the seraph surely looks less romantic than this :laugh:
(https://i.ibb.co/ykMvB6n/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg)
And while one can see the ophanim, I am missing the cherub there. :-\
Ah the Victorian Cherubs, meant to represent God's presence.
Not to be confused with Cherubim:
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/210171028_333058964975933_6277844171320190082_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=110474&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=X596DhjDIlkAX8jTJEJ&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&tp=14&oh=d84fbdd7ab2710bdb59defb8d08b701a&oe=60EB3A50)
Pretty sure cherubim are 4 wings, never six.
Quote from: Xeno Killer 2179 on Jul 08, 2021, 06:22:28 AM
Pretty sure cherubim are 4 wings, never six.
True, six wings are Seraphim. But that painting is the only one to attempt a likeness of the Cherubim that is three dimensional.
Bump..
Does anyone think Yautja, the species name of the Predator is homage to Jah or Yah, the god of Rastafarianism? I mean the Predators have dreadlocks like the Rastafarians.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Jul 15, 2021, 02:12:39 AM
Only through the power of Christ can the Alien turn from their evil ways.
It is interesting how Christianity keeps popping up in the Alien films.
Aliens: Bishop the Android has the name of a Church office called Overseer who is in charge of many dioceses. Vasquez is seen wearing a cross (easiest to see at the mess hall scene), and she makes a sacrifice to save Ripley, Hicks, and Newt.
Alien 3: The Giant Cross Structure at the beginning, hymns, Apocalyptic Christian Inmates. Ripley dies in cruciform shape, killing the queen in molten lead which can be analogy of the lake of fire, hell, inferno.
Alien Ressurection: Call makes the sign of the cross in a chapel, and Ripely pulls up a iPad Bible they use to take over Father.
Prometheus: Elizabeth Shaw wears a cross, the film focuses on it several times includ> Shaw: Where is my cross?.. David, After all this yiu still believe.
Alien Covenant: Christopher: Because a man of faith can't be trusted to make rational decisions. He then later says he needs to gather his flock, a term paying homage to pastors who are suppose to guard the flock, pastor meaning put out to pasture and Christ being the Good Shepherd.
Interestingly all these Alien films have different directors, James Cameron, David Fincher, Jean-Pierre Jeunet, and Ridley Scott.
Only Alien seems to have a lack of Christian themes. But I must do a rewatch to see if there is something.
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 15, 2021, 03:10:43 AM
Only Alien seems to have a lack of Christian themes. But I must do a rewatch to see if there is something.
Quote from: H.R.GigerSo I build up this egg with a top like a vagina. But when the producers turned up in my studio, they exclaimed, "Oh that's too specific! We can't show such things in Catholic countries. Can't you change the egg just a little bit?" So to satisfy Catholic audiences, I modified the egg, and made the opening a cross on the top.
Quote from: H.R.GigerWhen the gentlemen are beginning to get over it, I allow myself to ask whether they like it. Scott thinks it's too good, and Carroll too specific. He's afraid it will get them into trouble, especially in the Catholic countries. Dilley would rather have something more like a flower opening. This suggestion gives me the idea of doubling the bud effect and laying the two, one across the other. Seen from above, they would form the cross that people in the Catholic countries are so fond of looking at. Once again I can satisfy the producers, myself and the public at home and abroad.
Dallas does say Christ in Alien and Ash says "Mother of God."
I don't think minor blasphemy in stressful situations is a religious theme.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jul 15, 2021, 09:03:33 PM
I don't think minor blasphemy in stressful situations is a religious theme.
True, but saying "Mother of God" is unusual. Most say "Christ" or "Jesus" in a swear.
Wasn't the Mother console room meant to evoke a church with candles, sure I heard that somewhere.
Quote from: Reluctant Jeri on Jul 15, 2021, 10:30:38 PM
Wasn't the Mother console room meant to evoke a church with candles, sure I heard that somewhere.
Interesting, I know the Weyland Symbol has the wings of Ahura Mazda, Zoroastrianism.
Darth Vader is my favorite angel
Born into a protestant family (dating as far back as the very introduction of protestantism here) in a predominantly orthodox christian nation with an atheist dad.
Grew up in church, was taught by mom to be open minded and trust what I feel is right as well as never to judge myself or others because more often than not people act more cruelly and unforgiving than any god ever would.
Learned not to mention science or my own views on life and what lies beyond because people don't like to question themselves nor let others do the same.
Realised faith and science can not only coexist but be a healthy balance for a person if they're wise enough not to mix them when they obviously serve different functions and needs.
Like to say religion is to faith what politics are to sociality. One is more natural and points inwards while the other is more artificially constructed and is projected outwards. Faith is and should always be a personal matter.
As for my official designation... Considering there's more denominations in christianity nowadays than there are catalogued beetle species I'd stick to the good old "I'm a christian".
Amen to everything you said brother
Quote from: Ivan The Insect on Apr 03, 2022, 07:47:53 PM
more often than not people act more cruelly and unforgiving than any god ever would.
My dad taught me the same, I always liked that statement
Quote from: Ivan The Insect on Apr 03, 2022, 07:47:53 PM
Realised faith and science can not only coexist but be a healthy balance for a person if they're wise enough not to mix them when they obviously serve different functions and needs.
Exactly
Quote from: Ivan The Insect on Apr 03, 2022, 07:47:53 PM
As for my official designation... Considering there's more denominations in christianity nowadays than there are catalogued beetle species I'd stick to the good old "I'm a christian".
Same
Quote from: Ivan The Insect on Apr 03, 2022, 07:47:53 PM
Born into a protestant family (dating as far back as the very introduction of protestantism here) in a predominantly orthodox christian nation with an atheist dad.
Grew up in church, was taught by mom to be open minded and trust what I feel is right as well as never to judge myself or others because more often than not people act more cruelly and unforgiving than any god ever would.
Learned not to mention science or my own views on life and what lies beyond because people don't like to question themselves nor let others do the same.
Realised faith and science can not only coexist but be a healthy balance for a person if they're wise enough not to mix them when they obviously serve different functions and needs.
Like to say religion is to faith what politics are to sociality. One is more natural and points inwards while the other is more artificially constructed and is projected outwards. Faith is and should always be a personal matter.
As for my official designation... Considering there's more denominations in christianity nowadays than there are catalogued beetle species I'd stick to the good old "I'm a christian".
Well said, faith and science arn't enemies. They do indeed serve different purposes. To quote Brad S. Gregory, "Science can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God, it measures the seen world what can be examined with its instruments. The Spiritual deals with the unseen world and has its measures (means to perceive it)." (The Unintended Reformation: How A Religious Revolution Secularized Society, Yale Press).
Then again the God Particle did seem to bridge Science and Faith, a particle that was in two places, on two coasts, and yet was the same particle: helping make the omnipresence of God visible, if but for a moment.
Indeed there is Religion which Rodney Stark calls "The Church of Power," and faith which is the "Church of Piety." (God's Battalions: The Case For The Crusades). Jesus Christ himself spoke against the religious of his day (Matthew, Chapter 23) and called them vipers, sons of the devil, lawless, and etc. Christ was championing faith and a relationship via reconciliation with God through Himself not pioneering politics.
You eloquently point out the schisms (denominations), which are jarring; after all Jesus Christ wanted all Christians to be one, as He is One with God the Father (John, Chapter 17). I am Christian. I believe Jesus is Lord God and that following Him is more akin to the adventures of being a Jedi Apprentice (Disciple), an explorer like Elizabeth Shaw ("I'm still searching"), and Warrior in the Spirit World/Other Side like the Yautja/Predator.
I actually believe the Bible gets sanitized too much at the pulpit. The Engineers in Prometheus actually tie nicely to The Anakim or Nephilim in Genesis 6:4-12.
The Xenomorph is a great image of demon in us all, its primary weapon a tongue with teeth fits The Scripture, "life and death are in the tongue." (Proverbs 18:21).
God's arrival in Ezekiel 1 would thrill Stargate and Sci-Fi fans.
The Lightsaber of Star Wars and The Force is seen in Genesis 3 with the Flamming sword that levitates and floats.
David plays the devil and quoted Paradise Lost. The Engineers wanting to wipe out humans with the black goo is actually close to what the Four Angels of the Euphrates and The Four Horsemen of Apocalypse do in The Book of Revelation, Holy Bible.
My point is Scripture gets sanitized into a Puritan and Amish presentation, when actually it seems to be the basis intentionally or unintentionally for most great science fiction and fantasy stories; as J. R. R. Tolkien said, "we are telling the same story over and over whither we know it or not,"
(https://i.ibb.co/k2wfks1/51q-Zxx-Xg8-NL.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Krk59L4/Pics-Art-04-30-08-30-49.jpg)
https://twitter.com/Gizmodo/status/1668302683135156224
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 13, 2023, 11:23:05 PMhttps://twitter.com/Gizmodo/status/1668302683135156224
Pastors:
(https://y.yarn.co/4dd01373-3a1c-4232-9453-670e9561d428_text.gif)
Any Christians here ? Or just people of (any) faith/religion in general ?
I was raised by Christian parents and there was never a time when I full-on denied God's existence. But there was a long period when I didn't go to church, mostly because I didn't want to spend like half of Sunday on that. After the war started I began to become more religious. As sone of you know, a little more than a year ago I had to leave my hometown and move to Western Ukraine. Here, I started to attend church regularly again, I met new people and got quite involved in church's life. I felt pretty good about that
Now I'm preparing for my baptism at the beginning of August. However, these last few weeks I felt some cracks appearing in my faith. Mostly from reading Bible, funnily enough. Because God that is described in Bible, especially in Old Testament, is pretty scary one. You know, ordering Abraham to sacrifice his son (He stopped Abe at the last moment but still). Or killing all the firstborn in Egypt. Or commanding Hebrews to mercilessly eradicate people inhabiting The Promised Land. Kinda contradicts the notion of "all-loving" God
I just felt the need to express my thoughts and doubts somewhere. Have any of you experienced something similar?
Even though I'm an agnostic
pagan right now, my mother baptized me as a Catholic 😅👉👈🙈
Quote from: Kradan on Jun 27, 2023, 02:57:03 PMI just felt the need to express my thoughts and doubts somewhere. Have any of you experienced something similar?
That is the seed of skepticism. If it grows further it will only depend on you.😅nd yes, I'm sure many here have experienced that (me included). :)
Quote from: Kradan on Jun 27, 2023, 02:57:03 PMAny Christians here ? Or just people of (any) faith/religion in general ?
100% heretic/skeptic/atheist
I really dig critical thinking anyway haha ;D 👉👈
I keep telling Kradan not to ask questions! >:(
Laugh it up, fuzzball
Quote from: Kradan on Jun 27, 2023, 02:57:03 PMAny Christians here ? Or just people of (any) faith/religion in general ?
I was raised by Christian parents and there was never a time when I full-on denied God's existence. But there was a long period when I didn't go to church, mostly because I didn't want to spend like half of Sunday on that. After the war started I began to become more religious. As sone of you know, a little more than a year ago I had to leave my hometown and move to Western Ukraine. Here, I started to attend church regularly again, I met new people and got quite involved in church's life. I felt pretty good about that
Now I'm preparing for my baptism at the beginning of August. However, these last few weeks I felt some cracks appearing in my faith. Mostly from reading Bible, funnily enough. Because God that is described in Bible, especially in Old Testament, is pretty scary one. You know, ordering Abraham to sacrifice his son (He stopped Abe at the last moment but still). Or killing all the firstborn in Egypt. Or commanding Hebrews to mercilessly eradicate people inhabiting The Promised Land. Kinda contradicts the notion of "all-loving" God
I just felt the need to express my thoughts and doubts somewhere. Have any of you experienced something similar?
Consider that I have a pentagram tattoo before deciding how much credence you want to give my answer, but -
The text in the bible is multiple iterations of even older stories refined over a long time, most of it being a mythologised version of the history of the levant, babylon etc. The god described in the old testament is closer to those ancient war gods and the conquests of their cults that many of the tales are based around. It's really as simple as that.
However, that isn't to say there isn't good stuff in the book (more the new testament, which having its basis in more recent times is more appropriate for modern life than the fire and sword stuff in the old testament), and you should 100% do what brings you comfort, hope and joy in life regardless of what heretics like me say. It comes down to what you feel and believe.
Did you make a sacrifice for Winter Solstice?
I consumed a sacrament of kentucky bourbon.