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Posted by KiramidHead
 - Jun 11, 2014, 09:06:54 PM
I liked the heavy religious theme's in Wad's script, but the story telling was a complete mess.
Posted by Local Trouble
 - Jun 11, 2014, 06:20:10 PM
Ward's script is self-indulgent and pretentious.
Posted by HuDaFuK
 - Jun 11, 2014, 09:03:49 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 11, 2014, 08:20:49 AMRipley suggested to Cameron that she wanted Ripley to die (amongst other things).  Which would've played into Ward's thinking as he and Fasano orginally had Brother John 'exorcise' the Alien out of Ripley.  It came up her throat and into him, leaving her alive and him to walk into the burning abbey.
Yeah, I've read that. I actually think Ward's script is overrated. The wooden planet is cool but a bit daft, and beyond that there isn't much I like about it. He makes some really random and nonsensical changes to the Alien, like when it turns its skin into wood to hide, or a Chestburster pops out of the Abbot's head for... no reason.

I do like the bit where the monks in the khazi get it though. And obviously the creature's death was awesome enough to make it into the final film.
Posted by SM
 - Jun 11, 2014, 08:36:21 AM
Which she effectively did in Alien3 when she looked right down the barrel of the camera asking Dillon - and the audience - to kill her.
Posted by OpenMaw
 - Jun 11, 2014, 08:26:58 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 11, 2014, 08:20:49 AM
Ripley suggested to Cameron that she Ripley to die (amongst other things).

*Is picturing a fourth wall breaking moment between Ripley and Cameron*

Ripley: Please... Kill me.
Cameron: u wot?
Posted by SM
 - Jun 11, 2014, 08:20:49 AM
Ripley suggested to Cameron that she wanted Ripley to die (amongst other things).  Which would've played into Ward's thinking as he and Fasano orginally had Brother John 'exorcise' the Alien out of Ripley.  It came up her throat and into him, leaving her alive and him to walk into the burning abbey.
Posted by HuDaFuK
 - Jun 11, 2014, 07:49:29 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 11, 2014, 03:54:52 AMWell, both the original draft and the film as shot/edited have some really great ideas, and some great scenes, and then they both just have some really dumb elements.
As much as I want to love Prometheus, it's those dumb elements that just completely ruin it for me. In any other movie, I'd probably be able to forgive supposedly smart scientists doing really stupid shit to further the plot, but the impression Prometheus gives is that it's trying to be some deep, spiritual, intelligent spectacle, and the blatantly stupid stuff totally undermines that.

That and the fact they threw in the token chestbursting with something that's almost an Alien, but not quite, just because.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 11, 2014, 03:17:21 AMI do question it. Severely. The character was laid to rest in 1992, and it should have stayed there.
I still marvel at the fact they had the balls to kill Ripley in Alien 3. I can't think of a single other blockbuster franchise that offed it's lead character after a bunch of films. If Weaver was at all involved in that decision it was a good one. (Until they arbitrarily undid it in the next film.)
Posted by Lemonade
 - Jun 11, 2014, 04:01:33 AM
Yes, I know. "Had a hand in creating humanity" hahahahaha.
Posted by OpenMaw
 - Jun 11, 2014, 03:54:52 AM
Quote from: Lemonade on Jun 11, 2014, 03:34:04 AM
Uh no, Spaihts' idea was that the engineers had a hand in creating humanity.

He actually didn't say that in his script. Not exactly. The broader stroked version we got in Prometheus came from Lindelof. Spaights was much more scientifically literate in his take, humanity already existed when the Engineers came along and fiddled with us. That actually is much more plausible. 


Quote from: KiramidHead on Jun 11, 2014, 03:20:42 AM
I blame Spaihts as much or more than I blame Lindelof, to be frank. His big ideas were about different colored xeno eggs that produced different kinds of xenos. :laugh: And of course Ridley had to cut a bunch of scenes out that would have given the plot some more sanity.

Well, both the original draft and the film as shot/edited have some really great ideas, and some great scenes, and then they both just have some really dumb elements. I think the biggest thing with Spaights draft that doesn't work is some of the alien stuff just seems to happen because aliens need to be happening. The better film lies somewhere between the two versions of the story.
Posted by Lemonade
 - Jun 11, 2014, 03:50:10 AM
Well, Transformers has big-budgeted special effects. Robots! And then the humor.

An Alien film would never be budgeted that high.
Posted by StrangeShape
 - Jun 11, 2014, 03:42:34 AM
Quote from: Lemonade on Jun 11, 2014, 03:09:42 AM
I don't think it should be a simple mission movie. Audiences want more nowadays. They need more. Something like Inception. Notice how films like Pandorum don't gross much?

Unfortunately, I dont think thats really the case, otherwise Michael Bays movies wouldnt be such smash hits (transformers). It seems to me its all evened out, some hits are deeper , like Inception as an example given, and some are just pure "thrills" (for some), like Transformers or Avengers
Posted by Lemonade
 - Jun 11, 2014, 03:34:04 AM
Quote from: KiramidHead on Jun 11, 2014, 03:20:42 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 11, 2014, 03:17:21 AM
Prometheus was the first film in the series since the early 90s to actually do something of visual scope. It's screenplay shortfalls, thanks Lindelof, are it's biggest failing.

I blame Spaihts as much or more than I blame Lindelof, to be frank. His big ideas were about different colored xeno eggs that produced different kinds of xenos. :laugh: And of course Ridley had to cut a bunch of scenes out that would have given the plot some more sanity.

Uh no, Spaihts' idea was that the engineers had a hand in creating humanity. He is a Princeton-educated man, don't shortchange him. He also came up with the caesarean on the spot. That scene got him the job.

And I don't think the eggs were different colors, perse, they were just merely different. I mean, he was hired to write an Alien movie after all.
Posted by KiramidHead
 - Jun 11, 2014, 03:20:42 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 11, 2014, 03:17:21 AM
Prometheus was the first film in the series since the early 90s to actually do something of visual scope. It's screenplay shortfalls, thanks Lindelof, are it's biggest failing.

I blame Spaihts as much or more than I blame Lindelof, to be frank. His big ideas were about different colored xeno eggs that produced different kinds of xenos. :laugh: And of course Ridley had to cut a bunch of scenes out that would have given the plot some more sanity.
Posted by OpenMaw
 - Jun 11, 2014, 03:17:21 AM
Quote from: Lemonade on Jun 11, 2014, 03:09:42 AM
I don't think it should be a simple mission movie. Audiences want more nowadays. They need more. Something like Inception. Notice how films like Pandorum don't gross much? That's why I can't wait for Prometheus 2. It'll be another food-for-thought type movie in the Alien universe a'la Prometheus.

I didn't say it would be a simple "mission" movie. Just borrowing the general idea of competent individuals being thrust into a very sudden change in situation. Something we haven't seen in the series since Aliens.

Inception is a straightforward action-suspense film with one added layer. People enjoy entertainment when it's executed with some finesse. Prometheus was the first film in the series since the early 90s to actually do something of visual scope. It's screenplay shortfalls, thanks Lindelof, are it's biggest failing.

Quote from: Lemonade on Jun 11, 2014, 03:09:42 AM
It's not about Weaver's clout. If you get Weaver in another Alien movie, with a great director, it has blockbuster potential. A movie with Weaver in the lead role that's not an Alien movie? Okay, question that. But not a Weaver Alien movie.

I do question it. Severely. The character was laid to rest in 1992, and it should have stayed there.
Posted by Lemonade
 - Jun 11, 2014, 03:09:42 AM
I don't think it should be a simple mission movie. Audiences want more nowadays. They need more. Something like Inception. Notice how films like Pandorum don't gross much? That's why I can't wait for Prometheus 2. It'll be another food-for-thought type movie in the Alien universe a'la Prometheus.

It's not about Weaver's clout. If you get Weaver in another Alien movie, with a great director, it has blockbuster potential. A movie with Weaver in the lead role that's not an Alien movie? Okay, question that. But not a Weaver Alien movie.
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