Alien: In Space, Nobody Can Hear You Go Woke

Started by SiL, Jul 04, 2021, 07:33:14 AM

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Alien: In Space, Nobody Can Hear You Go Woke (Read 15,571 times)

SiL

In light of Noah Hawley's comments that the Alien TV series will feature socio-political commentary, people seem to have come out of the woodwork decrying that the series is going "woke" and that this will, somehow, ruin the project entirely.

But has the Alien franchise ever actually been asleep?

Rather than derail the TV series thread -- or somehow work this into existing politics thread, which is more garnered to, y'know, actual politics -- I thought we could make a dedicated thread to discuss whether this is some horrifying new development, or just par for the course.

Local Trouble

Next thing you know, they're going to cast a woman in the leading role...

SiL

That's just pandering.

RidgeTop

Film critics and scholars have recognized and discussed various themes in Alien. Sometimes creators will talk about what they're going for, and sometimes they won't. But art and politics have always been intertwined, though sometimes socio-political theming is indeed handled more clumsily these days.

I was reading a James Cameron interview recently in the book James Cameron's Story of Science-Fiction, this bit stood out:

Should a science fiction writer feel a moral imperative to get the science correct and address real-world issues?

QuoteJames Cameron: "I'd say that the moral imperative to get the science right is less important than the moral imperative to comment on our times and our political and sociological situation through a lens of entertainment. Or at least a lens that is somewhat removed or askance so that people can see things with a new perspective. We are certainly seeing, in what we thought were more enlightened times, that people are incredibly prejudiced and dug-in and dogmatic. The current size of populism and isolationism around the world shows that we are actually moving backward in that regard. Or, at the very least, deeply entrenched dogmatic perspectives are being revealed to us in harsh terms in our liberal bubble, which may have been a bubble of illusion, so that our sort of path of social revolution and enlightenment has not been nearly as effective as we thought it was. Which basically means we have got to double down, because whatever progress we have made can be somewhat attributed to people being able to see past the prejudices that they grew up with or were indoctrinated with, or that they learned in their schools or that they learned from their parents. One of the many imputes to that kind of social evolution has been science fiction, which does request and demand that people look outside their immediate bubble, their immediate reality."

TC

@RidgeTop. Good quote. He certainly lived up to his words when he made Avatar. I know a few right-wing conservative types who find the film unwatchable because of its "lefty liberal" themes. (Their words not mine, but probably not inaccurate). I can watch it just fine.

@SiL. No, it's not a horrifying new development. Yes, it's par for the course. What is new is the new slang terminology being used: "Woke", "SJW", "diversity" (we used to use the word "inclusivity") making certain people think there's a new leftist conspiracy afoot. There's not. Basically, storytellers have been putting messages into their stories for as long as they've been at work. (e.g. The Bible).

Messages, or themes, are generally layered as subplots within the overarching narrative. IOW, it's normal for a film (or novel, or play) to be about more than one thing. Generally, you've got your main plot on top carrying the action (the actual step by step events that comprise the narrative), and layers of subplot underneath that carry the theme.

For example, in Aliens you've got the top level of story: A woman teams up with some soldiers to defeat an alien threat. That's the action layer—the main plot. Layered below that are themes of corporate malfeasance, redemption, the hubris of technology, the brotherhood of soldiering, the eminence of the innocent (Newt and Bishop, one who is a child, the other who is child-like). These are the subplots that carry the themes. All these ideas co-exist in the Aliens screenplay, in varying degrees of emphasis.

At the very minimum, any audience should be able to follow the action of the main plot. If you're a 9 year old kid, or a shallow viewer, or simply inattentive, the action level will at least entertain you. But in any good film, if you are inclined to look deeper, the themes will be there.

This is also why Hill and Giler were so derisive of the original Alien screenplay that O'Bannon wrote. Basically, there were no deeper layers to the story. That's the hallmark of a B-movie. Whatever the events are in such a story, that's what the story is about. It's all surface level. It's why they added the subplot about the Company. It's why Mother was intended to be a corporate agent, plotting against the crew (later rewritten as Ash). This added what they felt every respectable script needs—a subplot to carry the story's theme. Without this subplot (and the friction between the lowly engineers and the upper-deck officers), Alien had no theme. Hill and Giler put one in. (Naturally, being the mid-70s, post-Watergate and the Nixon-era, with films like The Parallax View, Three Days of the Condor, The Conversation, The China Syndrome, The Candidate, etc. the zeitgeist of the era spawned many political thrillers about villainous institutions of authority; unsurprisingly, Hill and Giler shared the same influences.)

(Before anyone objects to say that O'Bannon's script had a built-in theme of rape, let me say at this point that rape is not a theme; it's an image-system. Likewise, neither is "motherhood" a theme in Aliens; technically, this, too, is an image-system.)

The interesting thing is that with the simple addition of this theme-bearing subplot (the Company, deviously plotting against its own workers) they created the germ of a franchise-wide theme that all sequels, and the vast majority of EU material, used as a toe-hold in developing their own descendant stories. IOW the importance of that theme can't be overstated. Without it, the entire Alien franchise might have had nothing more to show us than repetitious Giger-monster rehashes.

TC

Concerned Bystander

People tend to respond to any accusation of a franchise becoming 'too political' by saying that '[franchise] has always been political'.

In most cases this would be true, but there is a massive difference between exploring themes such as authoritarianism and dystopia which many franchises (including Alien) have done well over the years, and the recent trend in Hollywood of pushing (for want of a better phrase) 'Orange man bad' messaging, in which the film makers are clearly on one side of the two-party political divide and are doing little more than lecturing those on the other side.

Politics can be discussed without alienating (no pun intended) half of your audience, however I fear that in the current climate it seems Hollywood no longer knows how to do this.  The result of this is that people are becoming increasing disaffected with the amount of party-political messaging present in the very material they consume to escape from such real-life concerns.

Kimarhi

My complaint with the comment has only to do with the sub themes overshadowing the actual story.  If it is so obvious that it has to be told to you through some expository dialogue without you being able to figure it out on your own, then it becomes a distraction. 

You should be able to watch the movie and pick up the themes and symbolism on your own.  Not have some character expose dialogue to tell you about it, when it isn't essential to progress the story.

If it can be done subtly without smacking you in the face with it all the time then it will be fine.   If it is just blatantly loudspeaker obvious the whole series then it will be annoying as f**k. 

xxx

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 04, 2021, 07:34:39 AM
Next thing you know, they're going to cast a woman in the leading role...
Oh, you just reminded me of a video analysis of Alien that I quite enjoyed.
It offers actually a good comparison of women-led roles in "old" movies (like alien, aliens, terminator I, II) and movies made nowadays (like Captain Marvel).

SiL

SiL

#8
Quote from: Kimarhi on Jul 04, 2021, 03:24:16 PM
My complaint with the comment has only to do with the sub themes overshadowing the actual story.  If it is so obvious that it has to be told to you through some expository dialogue without you being able to figure it out on your own, then it becomes a distraction. 
Where is there any indication this is how it will be handled in the show? Where is there any indication that Hawley was suggesting this would be the case?

Conversely, how does Alien not slap you in the face with its messaging? We have corporate directives saying "CREW EXPENDABLE", characters exclaiming "That damn company! What about our lives, you son of a bitch!" This is everything people saying they're fearing the messaging being blunt dread, yet none of them seem to actually have a problem with it.

Kimarhi

Fair point, but I think the difference has always been that that dialogue felt natural to the Alien verse.  Maybe because I was negative 6 years old when it was released, and didn't feel that it necessarily correlated with real world issues at the time.






SiL

Right, but why is there a concern this somehow won't feel natural to the Alien universe, based on a comment stating nothing more than that the themes will exist?

[cancerblack]

You know why lol.

SiL

Not really. I've heard a few different reasons, from any commentary being bad, to modern Hollywood can't be subtle (while conveniently never providing an example), to "get woke go broke".

Kimarhi

Hollywood does sometimes lack the ability to be subtle.  Elysium and Avatar spring immediately to mind. 

SiL

True, but that's not new, and not even unheard of in the best entries of the franchise.

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