Amazon has it listed on Oct 24, 2023
https://www.amazon.com/Aliens-Bishop-T-R-Napper/dp/1803364513/ref=sr_1_12?crid=23SO0LU5UEGDG&keywords=media+titan&qid=1681880104&s=books&sprefix=media+titan%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C295&sr=1-12
I was okay with this until I saw the Apone family connection.
Where did you see that?
Also, why is Titan trying to turn the Alien universe into a soap opera of half a dozen closely connected families?
Quote from: SiL on Apr 19, 2023, 01:10:26 PMWhere did you see that?
Also, why is Titan trying to turn the Alien universe into a soap opera of half a dozen closely connected families?
I don't know, it's f**king awful. It didn't work in the Director's Cut of Aliens imo, nor did it work in either Sea of Sorrows or in Vasquez, it actively brought them down a few notches.
From Titan as a publisher perspective, I get capitalising on known names, but this is the completely wrong way to go about it.
In the "read more" synopsis part;
QuoteMassively damaged in Aliens and Alien3, the synthetic Bishop asked to be shut down forever. His creator, Michael Bishop, has other plans. He seeks the Xenomorph knowledge stored in the android's mind, and brings Bishop back to life―but for what reason? No longer an employee of the Weyland-Yutani Corporation, Michael tells his creation that he seeks to advance medical research for the benefit of humanity. Yet where does he get the resources needed to advance his work. With whom do his new allegiances lie?
This sounds potentially interesting, considering this: "Written by T. R. Napper, author of the acclaimed 36 Streets, whose explosive work explores the artificial intelligence and what it is to be human."
QuoteBishop is pursued by Colonial Marines Captain Marcel Apone, commander of the Il Conde and younger brother of Master Sergeant Alexander Apone, one of the casualties of the doomed mission to LV-426. Also on his trail are the "Dog Catchers," commandos employed by Weyland-Yutani.
Who else might benefit from Bishop's intimate knowledge of the deadliest creatures in the galaxy?
THIS sounds like really dumb melodrama.
sigh
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 19, 2023, 01:24:26 PMQuoteBishop is pursued by Colonial Marines Captain Marcel Apone, commander of the Il Conde and younger brother of Master Sergeant Alexander Apone, one of the casualties of the doomed mission to LV-426. Also on his trail are the "Dog Catchers," commandos employed by Weyland-Yutani.
Who else might benefit from Bishop's intimate knowledge of the deadliest creatures in the galaxy?
THIS sounds like really dumb melodrama.
Yeah. First bit sounds good, but this bit sounds like the plot of a direct to video cheapie sequel.
It's become like Star Wars. Where the universe is small and everybody's related.
No thanks!!
It was total shit when Phillip Kennedy Johnson tried to bring back bishop.
This won't be any different.
Just like that terrible "Vasquez" novel, this is a hard pass.
Will this book also confirm that Bishop was responsible for the egg on the Sulaco?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 20, 2023, 05:10:45 AMWill this book also confirm that Bishop was responsible for the egg on the Sulaco?
If it does that but the book sucks (looks like the case), then people will ignore it, and there will still be no consensus.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Apr 20, 2023, 05:15:50 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Apr 20, 2023, 05:10:45 AMWill this book also confirm that Bishop was responsible for the egg on the Sulaco?
If it does that but the book sucks (looks like the case), then people will ignore it, and there will still be no consensus.
Case and point...
I'm already ignoring it lmfao
Quote from: Stitch on Apr 19, 2023, 02:42:05 PMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 19, 2023, 01:24:26 PMQuoteBishop is pursued by Colonial Marines Captain Marcel Apone, commander of the Il Conde and younger brother of Master Sergeant Alexander Apone, one of the casualties of the doomed mission to LV-426. Also on his trail are the "Dog Catchers," commandos employed by Weyland-Yutani.
Who else might benefit from Bishop's intimate knowledge of the deadliest creatures in the galaxy?
THIS sounds like really dumb melodrama.
Yeah. First bit sounds good, but this bit sounds like the plot of a direct to video cheapie sequel.
I don't think that the first bit sounds all that promising either
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 19, 2023, 01:24:26 PMQuoteMassively damaged in Aliens and Alien3, the synthetic Bishop asked to be shut down forever. His creator, Michael Bishop, has other plans. He seeks the Xenomorph knowledge stored in the android's mind, and brings Bishop back to life―but for what reason? No longer an employee of the Weyland-Yutani Corporation, Michael tells his creation that he seeks to advance medical research for the benefit of humanity. Yet where does he get the resources needed to advance his work. With whom do his new allegiances lie?
QuoteBishop is pursued by Colonial Marines Captain Marcel Apone, commander of the Il Conde and younger brother of Master Sergeant Alexander Apone, one of the casualties of the doomed mission to LV-426. Also on his trail are the "Dog Catchers," commandos employed by Weyland-Yutani.
Who else might benefit from Bishop's intimate knowledge of the deadliest creatures in the galaxy?
Bishop studied one dead facehugger for a few hours and that was about it. Do these people watch the movies...?
They could just plug him in like Ripley did and download whatever data they might think is so valuable. Not sure why they'd bother rebuilding him.
That's why considering the author's pedigree, I think the first part could be interesting if it is more a philosophical conversation type framing, but overall it does come across as trashy.
Quote from: felix on Apr 19, 2023, 04:56:25 AMAmazon has it listed on Oct 24, 2023
https://www.amazon.com/Aliens-Bishop-T-R-Napper/dp/1803364513/ref=sr_1_12?crid=23SO0LU5UEGDG&keywords=media+titan&qid=1681880104&s=books&sprefix=media+titan%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C295&sr=1-12
Android's bother me less than people because there is a reason to have more than one. But I hate when a series shrinks itself continually by only following the sons/daughters/brothers/sisters/dads/mothers of certain characters, or continually try to set something in a familiar place, like all the Hadley's Hope tie ins for the Alien verse.
It cannot be that hard to come up with something new. I could think of a half dozen EU stories in 30 seconds that wouldn't need any of the old characters (unless you consider the Aliens characters) or settings to work.
I ran the whole gamut of emotions reading that synopsis.
At first we've got a bunch of returning characters, which just made me cringe.
But then some of the stuff about getting into Bishop's memory sounded like it could potentially be quite interesting and different.
But then we had relatives of established characters and I checked out again.
Haven't read an Alien EU novel since 'Puddle of Annoyance' or whatever it was, and this isn't exactly luring me back.
You missed out on Alex White's books?
You should definitely give those a go.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 20, 2023, 08:27:28 AMYou missed out on Alex White's books?
You should definitely give those a go.
Oh that's right, I read The Cold Forge, I think. Checked it outta the library. The first of those ones, anyway. It was interesting, but a slog that didn't keep me coming back. Shitty people doing shitty things to each other. Now it could be said that that's what the Alien films are, but at least they have beautiful production design, cinematography, and music. :D
Fair enough!
Blue's a good person, I may be biased.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Apr 20, 2023, 08:42:45 AMShitty people doing shitty things to each other. Now it could be said that that's what the Alien films are, but at least they have beautiful production design, cinematography, and music. :D
Nah, it's usually regular people banding against a common event while some solo outlier is shitty. White's characters can come across a bit edgelord-y by series standards.
I definitely felt that way about them. Although I think I'm due to try again after not finishing TCF. Won't try the audiobook this time though, I think the narrator put me off much more than the characters did honestly.
I'm honestly interested in this. It sounds like a cool RPG premise. Last year I used Michael Bishop in my Alien RPG campaign and it was similar, but it was indeed still WY however behind the veil of the drilling company from the manual. It was on an icy planet full of cryovolcanos that spilled liquid methane. Went into a fair bit of research for this one.
I never thought White's characters were shitty. They all thought they were doing right. They were all shades of grey and very representative of genuine people.
In regards to Bishop, being serious, I was actually aboard with the idea of bringing the character back. Of all the character revisits, he makes the most sense. He can be rebuilt after all, even if it's not top of the line. And I'm surprised it took until Colonial Marines to revisit the character of Michael Bishop. That all seems like a good foundation to me.
I'm curious to see where the novel does take Michael in regards to his motivation.
But yeah, it was then having a relation of Apone that lowered my enthusiasm. I am getting a little tired of Titan wanting to keep doing these legacy/relations of film characters.
I wouldn't go so far as to describe all the characters as outright shitty, but the fact none of them were clear-cut heroes definitely added to those novels for me. Felt more true to life.
EDIT: Hicks beat me to it :laugh:
I'm actually interested in checking out this story. I do feel like there's a lot of potential to make something interesting out of it.
I'm imagining a kind of dark, nihilistic, story (in similar tone to Alien3 about an android who asked to die cause he'd "rather be nothing" being forced to come back to life, in shambles, to do the bidding of this evil corporation. I think that could be really cool and interesting in a sort of sci-fi gothic way. I'm not entirely confident it will go in that direction, but I'm willing to give it a shot.
Quote from: Cosmic Incubation on Apr 20, 2023, 03:42:07 PMto do the bidding of this evil corporation.
And, of course, it'll be completely ignored that Bishop worked for the ECA.
I forgot the part in the synopsis where it says that Michael Bishop no longer works for Weyland-Yutani as well, so the evil corporation part doesn't really apply. But more so the point of being forced back to life for nefarious purposes still works.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 20, 2023, 09:03:20 AMBlue's a good person, I may be biased.
You absolutely are
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 20, 2023, 12:27:34 PMIn regards to Bishop, being serious, I was actually aboard with the idea of bringing the character back. Of all the character revisits, he makes the most sense. He can be rebuilt after all, even if it's not top of the line.
Nah, I don't care if it makes logical sense - Bishop had a very definitive "death" in Alien 3. Bringing him back is nothing but once again exploiting fans' good will towards 1986 movie
Spoiler
IMHO
Quote from: Cosmic Incubation on Apr 20, 2023, 04:43:18 PMI forgot the part in the synopsis where it says that Michael Bishop no longer works for Weyland-Yutani as well, so the evil corporation part doesn't really apply. But more so the point of being forced back to life for nefarious purposes still works.
Well, that's because he works for Seegson now. Duuuh
I'm 50% on white. I found Cold Forge a slog to get through. Downright boring at times. I was completely the opposite on Charybdis. I will admit that a few twist in that one were made better with the knowledge of Cold Forge, but I just all around found Charybdis to be superior to both TCF and the New Era EU, with only the first half of the Tristian comic series making me feel the same way that I did watching the first three movies in even semi recent memory outside of Charybdis.
Before that and you had to go back to mid run Dark Horse, or AVP2, or end run Bantam (that Berserker novelization) to get the same kind of feeling imo.
TCF > IC
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 19, 2023, 01:05:10 PMI was okay with this until I saw the Apone family connection.
This took my hype from a 10 to a hard 6.
They're doing the "Star Wars" thing and making every character some related cousin, brother, son, or daughter, to a Legacy character (specifically Aliens) and it's so jarring.
Like, you have this fantastic idea for a sequel novel following Alien 3 and STILL Find a way to work in Apone's brother and Lt. Goreman's neice and they all end up fighting Burke's evil nephew.
It's about family, and that's what's so powerful about it! >:(
Blue marsalis a good person? Depends but after reading cold forge she to me seem to do anything to save herself, wasting eggs on mass, having people do stuff for her for her own gain and little regard for their own lifes, issue with superiours, greeting superiours with sarcasm, accidents that happens to others due to her orders: barely cares.
So I wouldnt call her a good person but neutral evil :P
But it fits well into the story and the alien world where everyone is working to save their own skinn and throw the others under the bus.
Really hoping we get a new audio drama soon - like out of the Shadows, River of Pain, Sea of Sorrows & Alien III
Quote from: judge death link=msg= 2599878 date=1682030704But it fits well into the story and the alien world where everyone is working to save their own skinn and throw the others under the bus.
... maybe
I haven't watched the movies, because the idea that Alien films are full of people being selfish and shitty seems to be weirdly popular? :-\
The crew of the Nostromo bicker, but only Ash is working against anyone. The marines whine about things, but only Burke is selfish - we see the marines go back to try to help each other multiple times. Even the prisoners who try to rape Ripley are outliers quickly put in their place.
Alien films are about people working together and are incredibly judgmental of shitty selfish individuals. Maybe that's why I didn't like TCF.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 20, 2023, 10:22:52 PMIt's about family, and that's what's so powerful about it! >:(
You sound like vin Diesel now
Quote from: AVP50 on Apr 20, 2023, 11:05:16 PMReally hoping we get a new audio drama soon - like out of the Shadows, River of Pain, Sea of Sorrows & Alien III
This can never be said enough.
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 20, 2023, 05:03:26 PMNah, I don't care if it makes logical sense - Bishop had a very definitive "death" in Alien 3. Bringing him back is nothing but once again exploiting fans' good will towards 1986 movie
That's an entirely fair point. But Alien 3 also had that undertone of "life isn't fair". It certainly wasn't to Ripley. So I can forgive Bishop having that death taken away.
Quote from: judge death on Apr 20, 2023, 10:45:04 PMSo I wouldnt call her a good person but neutral evil :P
It all goes to that shades of grey that I love about the portrayal of characters in that book. What they're trying to achieve is incredible. It would benefit everyone. But they're doing it for their own well-being.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 21, 2023, 03:03:43 AMQuote from: judge death link=msg= 2599878 date=1682030704But it fits well into the story and the alien world where everyone is working to save their own skinn and throw the others under the bus.
... maybe I haven't watched the movies, because the idea that Alien films are full of people being selfish and shitty seems to be weirdly popular? :-\
The crew of the Nostromo bicker, but only Ash is working against anyone. The marines whine about things, but only Burke is selfish - we see the marines go back to try to help each other multiple times. Even the prisoners who try to rape Ripley are outliers quickly put in their place.
Alien films are about people working together and are incredibly judgmental of shitty selfish individuals. Maybe that's why I didn't like TCF.
Huh. When I read Cold Forge, I liked it enough, but it also felt dry and.. kind of boring. This comment kind of made me realize a few things in that the Alien, despite being an overwhelming and terrifying force, also has that tendency to set aside the tension between characters and bring them together in a sense, even if some characters have more ulterior motives.
Quote from: DavidIsDaddy on Apr 20, 2023, 09:21:17 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 19, 2023, 01:05:10 PMI was okay with this until I saw the Apone family connection.
This took my hype from a 10 to a hard 6.
They're doing the "Star Wars" thing and making every character some related cousin, brother, son, or daughter, to a Legacy character (specifically Aliens) and it's so jarring.
Like, you have this fantastic idea for a sequel novel following Alien 3 and STILL Find a way to work in Apone's brother and Lt. Goreman's niece and they all end up fighting Burke's evil nephew.
My thoughts exactly. I'm not a fan of seeing recurring characters or relatives encounter Xenomorphs like it's a family tradition (aside from Ellen, of course).
Once with Amanda Ripley? Fair enough. Now we've got Olivia Shipp,
more Amanda Ripley, Zula Hendricks, the niece & nephew of Vasquez, Apone's brother, Goreman's niece, Cher Hunt, AND Chad McLaren getting involved or having multiple encounters?
Is the Alien universe not big enough for new stories? :(
QuoteWhat she's trying to achieve is incredible. It would benefit everyone. But she's doing it for her own well-being.
Just so, the last part does not bother me in the slightest, nobody's truly completely altruistic, it's just Blue's circumstances push them into making uncomfortable decisions most people will never have to.
Most people would not have half the integrity Blue displays.
The Cold Forge also has Lucy, who literally never does anything incorrect, but gets massive hate because of their demeanour.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 21, 2023, 10:18:40 AMnobody's truly completely altruistic
Completely agreed. We're all selfish, we all act according to our own best interests. Which is, again, why I love Blue's character.
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Apr 21, 2023, 08:32:11 AMHuh. When I read Cold Forge, I liked it enough, but it also felt dry and.. kind of boring. This comment kind of made me realize a few things in that the Alien, despite being an overwhelming and terrifying force, also has that tendency to set aside the tension between characters and bring them together in a sense, even if some characters have more ulterior motives.
Yeah, normally characters are punished for being selfish in Alien movies. Like, there's nothing unrealistic about Burke, or the prisoners, or Wren. That doesn't mean we give their actions a free pass.
I liked Blue well enough
Spoiler
before the character got turned into a talking Alien
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 21, 2023, 12:33:33 PMI liked Blue well enough
Spoiler
before the character got turned into a talking Alien
And another thing to dislike...
If you wish you knew more about any of them, following a relative is a logical route. It's a window into their personal lives and good motivation for a new character to pursue what really happened in that mission since WY probably swept it under the rug.
I also feel like we simply need to wait for the novel to understand why rebuild Bishop instead of only accessing his artificial consciousness. We could be getting more info on how advanced androids' minds work (per this author) and we'll see it's not as simple as opening a file on a computer. Maybe what we think is a rebuilt Bishop walking around with Michael is in fact its digital self in a simulation being tricked into thinking he's been rebuilt to his prime and androids' minds are so complex that recovering corrupt data is more like regression hypnosis so they need to revisit Bishop's past.
WY couldn't sweep anything under the rug. The marines weren't sent by WY, they didn't report to WY, WY's representative had no authority on the mission. It was a military operation.
People seem to make that assumption constantly.
Quote from: Simply_Kevin on Apr 21, 2023, 06:16:09 PMIf you wish you knew more about any of them, following a relative is a logical route. It's a window into their personal lives and good motivation for a new character to pursue what really happened in that mission since WY probably swept it under the rug.
I also feel like we simply need to wait for the novel to understand why rebuild Bishop instead of only accessing his artificial consciousness. We could be getting more info on how advanced androids' minds work (per this author) and we'll see it's not as simple as opening a file on a computer. Maybe what we think is a rebuilt Bishop walking around with Michael is in fact its digital self in a simulation being tricked into thinking he's been rebuilt to his prime and androids' minds are so complex that recovering corrupt data is more like regression hypnosis so they need to revisit Bishop's past.
I don't want to know more about them... or their relatives. We got precisely what we needed to know in the films.
I want a focus on completely new characters with no relations to previous characters.
I don't know what else I need to know about any of the marines? I don't get to the end of Aliens and feel like I missed out on something important to understanding their actions and motivations in the story.
Wise words from Joey Tribbiani: "there are no selfless good deeds."
On one hand a book that deals with Bishop and Michael Bishop is appealing (and bonus points if the book references some of Bishop's background details from the packaging from his 90s Kenner toy), on the other hand the Apone link is pretty wack.
I'm cautiously optimistic, but I'll wait for reviews before I commit to reading it.
I've never been convinced the character in the third film is even human, mainly because sending a guy with robotics/software expertise on a specimen retrieval mission for the biological warfare division... It never made sense to me then and it doesn't make sense to me now. Whereas something which can have its data erased for plausible deniability totally fits WY's MO.
That said...
This story is either going to have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to work or is going to feel lazy and superficial. Like, why even bother rebuilding Bishop's physical shell? Just copy the data over. And, as was pointed out, what would Bishop even have to offer?
Alright, so... Let's be generous and assume, in addition to spending some time on the facehugger corpse, Bishop would also have access to all the colony laboratory stuff which went on before he got there (which, judging by Ripley's reaction when he goes over it, didn't offer any more understanding than her report included). But it's not like the place is super-advanced. They would have had something at least on par with the Nostromo's 'auto-doc' X-ray thing. Presumably what allowed them to figure out the facehuggers were attempting "embyo implantation" and that removing it from one of them occured before that took place. But what else?
It would have been somewhere industrial-type accidents and maybe exposure to unsafe chemicals/toxic waste could be analysed, diagnosed and treated (at least for however long it would take for a signal to be sent to/received from the closest outpost and a medical ship to cruise out). It might have had an ability to do DNA analysis? Maybe...? Although, even that's a stretch. Why would they even require that ability?
But let's say they somehow gained DNA data. Aside from that, there wouldn't be much else. And it still wouldn't necessitate rebuilding the entire robot, just copying files over.
Apone's relative is... Needless. Fan service has its place and this isn't it.
And why bother with the nonsensical 'dog catcher' costumes? How would they be of any use in getting ahold of Bishop? Or are these meant to just be personnel from the same department? In which case, you're sending staff/thugs trained in biological specimen retrieval after a robot? What?
Maybe the reason this guy is no long with Weyland-Yutani is because he got fired for wasting resources and general ineptitude.
Major odds there'll be an excuse for him and Original Flavour Bishop to verbally negotiate for the data, just to have him say, "Think of all we could learn from it."
Its easy: its fan service and easy money grab on using well known names from the franchise that most normal fans have heard about and might get interested in buying. Most franchises sadly falls down into this pit where everything must be connected to something familiar to please most fans possible. Even jaws franchise did this back in the day and star wars now where everything must be a skywalker or obi wan or plagius, tattooine, or any other famous planet, bring back dead charachters! Boba Fett etc.
With disney at the helm and the novels of vasquez relative and spamming out material and now with this Im sure Disney is taking this easy route, sadly.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 23, 2023, 02:17:15 PMI've never been convinced the character in the third film is even human, mainly because sending a guy with robotics/software expertise on a specimen retrieval mission for the biological warfare division... It never made sense to me then and it doesn't make sense to me now. Whereas something which can have its data erased for plausible deniability totally fits WY's MO.
That said...
This story is either going to have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to work or is going to feel lazy and superficial. Like, why even bother rebuilding Bishop's physical shell? Just copy the data over. And, as was pointed out, what would Bishop even have to offer?
In the Assembly Cut he is very much human, as well as in the novelization and the script. WY didn't send him as an expert, they sent him because he literally looks like Bishop, someone Ripley knows and trusts. It was full on psychological manipulation.
As for what Bishop knows, I think he could know more than you might think. He had access to the Sulaco's flight recorder for some reason, and they could take the route the final chapter in the Colonial Marines Technical Manual takes and say that the Sulaco's data included everything broadcast to the APC, which includes all of the Marines' cameras. The Sulaco data also included video footage from onboard the Sulaco itself, including the Queen fight.
So yeah, there's easy ways to make Bishop have plenty of useful data that WY could be interested in.
Quote from: Retropocalypse on Apr 21, 2023, 08:34:11 AMQuote from: DavidIsDaddy on Apr 20, 2023, 09:21:17 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 19, 2023, 01:05:10 PMI was okay with this until I saw the Apone family connection.
This took my hype from a 10 to a hard 6.
They're doing the "Star Wars" thing and making every character some related cousin, brother, son, or daughter, to a Legacy character (specifically Aliens) and it's so jarring.
Like, you have this fantastic idea for a sequel novel following Alien 3 and STILL Find a way to work in Apone's brother and Lt. Goreman's niece and they all end up fighting Burke's evil nephew.
My thoughts exactly. I'm not a fan of seeing recurring characters or relatives encounter Xenomorphs like it's a family tradition (aside from Ellen, of course).
Once with Amanda Ripley? Fair enough. Now we've got Olivia Shipp, more Amanda Ripley, Zula Hendricks, the niece & nephew of Vasquez, Apone's brother, Goreman's niece, Cher Hunt, AND Chad McLaren getting involved or having multiple encounters?
Is the Alien universe not big enough for new stories? :(
Yeah, that's really kinda dumb and seriously bringing down the stories for me. And especially that all these reoccurring characters seem "special" and all achieve big important victories against the bad guys. Their plot armor is really showing.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 23, 2023, 04:17:50 PMQuote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 23, 2023, 02:17:15 PMI've never been convinced the character in the third film is even human, mainly because sending a guy with robotics/software expertise on a specimen retrieval mission for the biological warfare division... It never made sense to me then and it doesn't make sense to me now. Whereas something which can have its data erased for plausible deniability totally fits WY's MO.
That said...
This story is either going to have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to work or is going to feel lazy and superficial. Like, why even bother rebuilding Bishop's physical shell? Just copy the data over. And, as was pointed out, what would Bishop even have to offer?
In the Assembly Cut he is very much human, as well as in the novelization and the script. WY didn't send him as an expert, they sent him because he literally looks like Bishop, someone Ripley knows and trusts. It was full on psychological manipulation.
As for what Bishop knows, I think he could know more than you might think. He had access to the Sulaco's flight recorder for some reason, and they could take the route the final chapter in the Colonial Marines Technical Manual takes and say that the Sulaco's data included everything broadcast to the APC, which includes all of the Marines' cameras. The Sulaco data also included video footage from onboard the Sulaco itself, including the Queen fight.
So yeah, there's easy ways to make Bishop have plenty of useful data that WY could be interested in.
Even if we only infer from what Bishop physically saw, he did spend a good long time examining the Facehugger.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 23, 2023, 04:17:50 PMAs for what Bishop knows, I think he could know more than you might think. He had access to the Sulaco's flight recorder for some reason, and they could take the route the final chapter in the Colonial Marines Technical Manual takes and say that the Sulaco's data included everything broadcast to the APC, which includes all of the Marines' cameras. The Sulaco data also included video footage from onboard the Sulaco itself, including the Queen fight.
But Bishop said that everything in the Sulaco's computer got sent back to the network.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 23, 2023, 05:39:59 PMQuote from: Xenomrph on Apr 23, 2023, 04:17:50 PMAs for what Bishop knows, I think he could know more than you might think. He had access to the Sulaco's flight recorder for some reason, and they could take the route the final chapter in the Colonial Marines Technical Manual takes and say that the Sulaco's data included everything broadcast to the APC, which includes all of the Marines' cameras. The Sulaco data also included video footage from onboard the Sulaco itself, including the Queen fight.
But Bishop said that everything in the Sulaco's computer got sent back to the network.
Shit, you're right. My bad.
I still think it would make far more sense for Michael Bishop to find the facehugger corpse on Fury. He could still salvage Bishop's remains and plug him in like Ripley did, but the facehugger itself would be the real prize.
I think it makes the most sense that these people don't pay attention to the movies.
It's practically a prerequisite for being hired to write one of these books.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 24, 2023, 12:31:06 AMIt's practically a prerequisite for being hired to write one of these books.
"This pitch is ridiculous, have you even seen the movies?"
"Well... once, a long time ago."
"Perfect, you're hired."
Maybe we can get a surprise Hudson's relative cameo who will of course be complaining about something so Apone's relative can say "Look into my eye" so then Hudson's relative can reply with something about lip cancer.
Wouldn't that be great ?
Btw, when is the book about Brett's parrot coming out ?
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2023, 11:46:07 PMI think it makes the most sense that these people don't pay attention to the movies.
This comment reminded me of the number of glaring inconsistencies in
River of Pain that even one cursory viewing of the movie would've immediately highlighted.
Gotta love some convoluted EU. Just finished Aliens: Annual and it features the second Ash resurrection (are these resurrections connected?).
It feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
Quote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AM"Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived"
Are you saying that Hadley's Hope is Palpatine of Alien universe ?
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 24, 2023, 12:38:13 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AM"Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived"
Are you saying that Hadley's Hope is Palpatine of Alien universe ?
It's difficult to say. Palpatine survived (or was cloned) both in the old and new Star Wars EU.
I don't remember the LV-426 Colony surviving in the old EU, although there was the new colony from AvP Classic. The Old EU was kind of awesome.
Quote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 01:14:14 PMQuote from: Kradan on Apr 24, 2023, 12:38:13 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AM"Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived"
Are you saying that Hadley's Hope is Palpatine of Alien universe ?
It's difficult to say. Palpatine survived (or was cloned) both in the old and new Star Wars EU.
I don't remember the LV-426 Colony surviving in the old EU, although there was the new colony from AvP Classic. The Old EU was kind of awesome.
What do you consider "old EU" in this case? If it's pre-Disney era than I'd say ACM is your old EU example for Hadley's Hope surviving the blast...
Still waaay worse than anything the "new EU" has given us yet.
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 24, 2023, 02:15:04 PMWhat do you consider "old EU" in this case? If it's pre-Disney era than I'd say ACM is your old EU example for Hadley's Hope surviving the blast...
I've always thought of
Out of the Shadows as the start of the new EU. That was the point at which Fox allegedly reset everything outside of the movies (even if they've since muddied the waters with things like
River of Pain having nods to
Newt's Tale).
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 24, 2023, 03:19:06 PMQuote from: Engineer on Apr 24, 2023, 02:15:04 PMWhat do you consider "old EU" in this case? If it's pre-Disney era than I'd say ACM is your old EU example for Hadley's Hope surviving the blast...
I've always thought of Out of the Shadows as the start of the new EU. That was the point at which Fox allegedly reset everything outside of the movies (even if they've since muddied the waters with things like River of Pain having nods to Newt's Tale).
I agree with this. But now I realize that Colonial Marines just came out slightly before the book.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 24, 2023, 02:39:42 PMStill waaay worse than anything the "new EU" has given us yet.
I dunno, Aliens: Aftermath was pretty bad lol
Quote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 04:41:44 PMI agree with this. But now I realize that Colonial Marines just came out slightly before the book.
Damn, you're right. I had it after
Out of the Shadows.
Mostly though I try to forget that game even exists at all, so it doesn't really matter ;D
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 24, 2023, 07:38:23 AMQuote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2023, 11:46:07 PMI think it makes the most sense that these people don't pay attention to the movies.
This comment reminded me of the number of glaring inconsistencies in River of Pain that even one cursory viewing of the movie would've immediately highlighted.
River of Pain had the most ridiculous inconsistencies I've ever seen in the franchise.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 24, 2023, 06:12:54 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 04:41:44 PMI agree with this. But now I realize that Colonial Marines just came out slightly before the book.
Damn, you're right. I had it after Out of the Shadows.
Mostly though I try to forget that game even exists at all, so it doesn't really matter ;D
I'd love to forget that game exists too
If the author of the Bishop novel is reading this thread, they must be so bummed out. ;D
To be fair my big issue is the Apone connection, and that reeks of studio insistence to me. The rest of the synopsis has me interested.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Apr 24, 2023, 06:39:15 PMQuote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 24, 2023, 07:38:23 AMQuote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2023, 11:46:07 PMI think it makes the most sense that these people don't pay attention to the movies.
This comment reminded me of the number of glaring inconsistencies in River of Pain that even one cursory viewing of the movie would've immediately highlighted.
River of Pain had the most ridiculous inconsistencies I've ever seen in the franchise.
I would replace "in the franchise" with "in a franchise". I am amazed it still gets recommended as one of the "must-read alien books".
Honestly, I'm also intrigued by the first half of the synopsis, the relatives I can do without. At least this I'll probably be picking up. I am interested what the author can bring to the table.
QuoteI liked Blue well enough
Spoiler
before the character got turned into a talking Alien
Spoiler
For me, that's the best part :-[
I was happy with the idea of Michael Bishop getting his own Thrawn style book. But why does every character in Aliens have a Greek sized extended family all in the Colonial marines?
Quote from: Komenja on Apr 24, 2023, 11:26:37 PMQuoteI liked Blue well enough
Spoiler
before the character got turned into a talking Alien
Spoiler
For me, that's the best part :-[
Different strokes ...
Quote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AMIt feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
When has it happened other than A:CM?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 25, 2023, 08:32:27 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AMIt feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
When has it happened other than A:CM?
Aliens: Aftermath at least.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 24, 2023, 08:28:32 PMTo be fair my big issue is the Apone connection, and that reeks of studio insistence to me. The rest of the synopsis has me interested.
It reminds me of what White had talked about them, presenting multiple ideas so they did not do something dumb like family ties, that maybe this author did not, and they decided it "needed a punching up" which ultimately ruined Prometheus and many other stories.
Interesting. I'm not a big Alien 3 fan, but interesting is interesting. Hopefully we get an audio drama with Lance Henriksen afterwards.
I'm in two minds. A Bishop centric story makes me very happy, but the weaving in of an Apone family tree has me cringing. Maybe if it was aligned more to Gibsons first draft treatment of Alien 3 where Bishop has a lot more insight into the Xenos and research that the UPP were doing it might make more sense. Drop the Apone completely. I'm intrigued to see what they do with Michael Bishop as in the film they left it so ambiguous.
I'm going to hold out hope..
Quote from: Wweyland on Apr 25, 2023, 09:46:35 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Apr 25, 2023, 08:32:27 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AMIt feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
When has it happened other than A:CM?
Aliens: Aftermath at least.
Oh that's right. I don't even know what happens in that story to be honest.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 25, 2023, 09:59:51 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 25, 2023, 09:46:35 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Apr 25, 2023, 08:32:27 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AMIt feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
When has it happened other than A:CM?
Aliens: Aftermath at least.
Oh that's right. I don't even know what happens in that story to be honest.
It was absolutely terrible and you're better off not knowing
Quote from: Wweyland on Apr 25, 2023, 09:46:35 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Apr 25, 2023, 08:32:27 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AMIt feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
When has it happened other than A:CM?
Aliens: Aftermath at least.
(https://media.tenor.com/r7QMJLxU4BoAAAAM/this-is-getting-out-of-hand-star-wars.gif)
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 26, 2023, 04:48:49 PMQuote from: Xenomrph on Apr 25, 2023, 09:59:51 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 25, 2023, 09:46:35 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Apr 25, 2023, 08:32:27 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AMIt feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
When has it happened other than A:CM?
Aliens: Aftermath at least.
Oh that's right. I don't even know what happens in that story to be honest.
It was absolutely terrible and you're better off not knowing
No no, I think I want to know.
I shouldn't, but I think I want to know how stupid this franchise gets sometimes.
Hit me.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 27, 2023, 01:08:55 AMQuote from: Engineer on Apr 26, 2023, 04:48:49 PMQuote from: Xenomrph on Apr 25, 2023, 09:59:51 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 25, 2023, 09:46:35 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Apr 25, 2023, 08:32:27 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AMIt feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
When has it happened other than A:CM?
Aliens: Aftermath at least.
Oh that's right. I don't even know what happens in that story to be honest.
It was absolutely terrible and you're better off not knowing
No no, I think I want to know.
I shouldn't, but I think I want to know how stupid this franchise gets sometimes.
Hit me.
Vasquez's nephew is there. He's looking for his auntie. He finds something of her's; I can't remember what it was now... her smart gun or her chest armor or something...
Then there's the glowing white alien they show on the covers. Except it has liquid nitrogen blood instead of acid blood for some reason.
It ends with a hologram of mrs. yutani convincing someone to do her bidding, and bring back "patient zero" who's been in cryo freeze this whole time and still alive carrying an alien embryo. They never say explicitly who patient zero is, but that would have to be newt's father since he was the first colonist exposed. So him being alive and in cryo means they officially retconned River of Pain/Newt's Tale, or the writer f**ked up royally and didn't realize he was contradicting the previously established lore so egregiously.
Regardless, the white alien, patient zero reveal, Mrs. Yutani, and Vasquez's nephew all made for a pretty pathetic storyline that I'd love to forget.
Update: it was Vasquez's smart gun he found.
PS. I like to call the glowing white alien the Caspermorph.
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 27, 2023, 01:34:55 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Apr 27, 2023, 01:08:55 AMQuote from: Engineer on Apr 26, 2023, 04:48:49 PMQuote from: Xenomrph on Apr 25, 2023, 09:59:51 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 25, 2023, 09:46:35 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Apr 25, 2023, 08:32:27 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AMIt feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
When has it happened other than A:CM?
Aliens: Aftermath at least.
Oh that's right. I don't even know what happens in that story to be honest.
It was absolutely terrible and you're better off not knowing
No no, I think I want to know.
I shouldn't, but I think I want to know how stupid this franchise gets sometimes.
Hit me.
Vasquez's nephew is there. He's looking for his auntie. He finds something of her's; I can't remember what it was now... her smart gun or her chest armor or something...
Then there's the glowing white alien they show on the covers. Except it has liquid nitrogen blood instead of acid blood for some reason.
It ends with a hologram of mrs. yutani convincing someone to do her bidding, and bring back "patient zero" who's been in cryo freeze this whole time and still alive carrying an alien embryo. They never say explicitly who patient zero is, but that would have to be newt's father since he was the first colonist exposed. So him being alive and in cryo means they officially retconned River of Pain/Newt's Tale, or the writer f**ked up royally and didn't realize he was contradicting the previously established lore so egregiously.
Regardless, the white alien, patient zero reveal, Mrs. Yutani, and Vasquez's nephew all made for a pretty pathetic storyline that I'd love to forget.
Update: it was Vasquez's smart gun he found.
PS. I like to call the glowing white alien the Caspermorph.
I, uh
Huh
Well, that sure is a piece of officially licensed franchise fiction that a whole team of people made on purpose.
Christ
I tried to warn you lol
At this point in just trying to enjoy the insanity.
Liquid nitrogen blood is not insanity
It's stupidity
I mean, liquid nitrogen for blood could've been an interesting twist ... if they bothered to give it a reasonable explanation
Quote from: SiL on Apr 27, 2023, 04:18:50 AMAt this point in just trying to enjoy the insanity.
Are you saying this comic needed more swords ?
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 27, 2023, 04:33:11 AMLiquid nitrogen blood is not insanity
It's stupidity
It's insane someone would approve something so stupid.
A glowing Xenomorph type (a Xenomorph Ghost?) was missing from the lore so they get points for originality.
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 27, 2023, 05:00:21 AMI mean, liquid nitrogen for blood could've been an interesting twist ... if they bothered to give it a reasonable explanation
Quote from: SiL on Apr 27, 2023, 04:18:50 AMAt this point in just trying to enjoy the insanity.
Are you saying this comic needed more swords ?
I don't think there is a reasonable explanation for a living creature with liquid nitrogen blood. It makes zero sense biologically (engineered that way or not)... cold blooded creatures get lethargic when their body temperatures drop too low; I can't even imagine how lethargic this thing should have been, and that's only the tip of the iceberg (no pun intended). I get it that it's an alien and its body could very well work differently than creatures from earth, but temperature effects are universal. I'm no expert in this area, so if there's a biologist out there that can rationalize a creature having liquid nitrogen blood I'd be interested in hearing that rationalization. But based on my current understanding it's pretty nonsensical.
For a layman like me, it as nonsensical as a creature having acidic blood
I always liked the idea that the Alien has acid blood because it's essentially a biological battery, and that's where it gets its energy from, and is why it can survive pretty much anywhere.
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 27, 2023, 10:15:24 AMFor a layman like me, it as nonsensical as a creature having acidic blood
Acid blood isn't nonsensical at all. Lots of bodily fluids are acidic, like the hydrochloric acid in our stomachs we use to digest food.
Plus bishop does mention it oxidizes when exposed to air, so it may be non-corrosive until it bleeds.
Assuming it's acidic all the time though... hudafuk just said exactly the same thing I would have. Acids are great at transferring energy, hence why batteries have acids in them. It's essentially a living battery and in my head canon, the reason it can live so long without sustenance; it's very efficient at using the energy its body has stored up.
As I've said - "for a layman like me". How many viewers actually thought about whether or not acidic blood makes sense ? O'Bannon himself probably didn't
I'm no biologist but I don't think that stomach acid is as potent as Xeno's blood is shown to be. Probably cause it's supposed to digest food not melt spaceship decks. Also, we don't have acid running in our veins. Probably for a reason too
Something that bleeds acid suddenly bleeding liquid nitrogen is nonsensical.
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 27, 2023, 11:55:02 AMAs I've said - "for a layman like me". How many viewers actually thought about whether or not acidic blood makes sense ? O'Bannon himself probably didn't
I'm no biologist but I don't think that stomach acid is as potent as Xeno's blood is shown to be. Probably cause it's supposed to digest food not melt spaceship decks. Also, we don't have acid running in our veins. Probably for a reason too
Yea our veins can't handle acidity. But the point behind mentioning stomach acid was that it's not unheard of to have bodily fluids that are acidic or living tissues that are capable of withstanding the acidity.
Our stomach acid is pretty damn strong though. pH of 1 to 2. The difference isn't just in the strength but in the chemistry. Some materials are more resistant to some acids than others. Hydrofluoric acid for example will eat through bone but not certain plastics (if you watched Breaking Bad, that's what the bathtub scene was showing). So the alien's blood eating through a ship deck is just as much about the chemistry involved, and what it's reactive with, as it is the strength. For all we know, it's at a pH of 1 to 2 also, and just very highly reactive with the metals used to make space ships.
You're right that Dan obannon more than likely didn't put that much thought into it. But regardless, acids in living organisms, including strong acids, is not uncommon.
Liquid nitrogen on the other hand... personally I find it bothersome and ridiculous.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 27, 2023, 12:18:57 PMSomething that bleeds acid suddenly bleeding liquid nitrogen is nonsensical.
Hence why I wrote
quote author=Kradan link=msg=2600502 date=1682571621]
if they bothered to give it a reasonable explanation
[/quote]
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 27, 2023, 12:33:51 PMYea our veins can't handle acidity. But the point behind mentioning stomach acid was that it's not unheard of to have bodily fluids that are acidic or living tissues that are capable of withstanding the acidity.
Our stomach acid is pretty damn strong though. pH of 1 to 2. The difference isn't just in the strength but in the chemistry. Some materials are more resistant to some acids than others. Hydrofluoric acid for example will eat through bone but not certain plastics (if you watched Breaking Bad, that's what the bathtub scene was showing). So the alien's blood eating through a ship deck is just as much about the chemistry involved, and what it's reactive with, as it is the strength. For all we know, it's at a pH of 1 to 2 also, and just very highly reactive with the metals used to make space ships.
You're right that Dan obannon more than likely didn't put that much thought into it. But regardless, acids in living organisms, including strong acids, is not uncommon.
Liquid nitrogen on the other hand... personally I find it bothersome and ridiculous.
Fair enough
What kind of explanation is reasonable for something suddenly having liquid nitrogen for blood?
That plus the colony is still intact, the derelight, and the xenomorph was affected by radiation and is now white, is just as silly to me.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 27, 2023, 08:08:20 PMWhat kind of explanation is reasonable for something suddenly having liquid nitrogen for blood?
Hmmm, idk tbh. Maybe some genetic manipulation ? Bizzare evolutionary tangent ? A mutation ? Aliens developing different defense mechanisms over generations ? Perhaps Aliens born on Mustafar would need something like this ?
Truth be told, I haven't read the comic. Was there any explanation given at all ? I assumed not
Quote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AMIt feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
Wait until some future story has a ship coming across the fully intact hull of the Nostromo, complete with atmosphere and a functional decapitated Ash aboard it.
You know it's coming.
After nearly fifty years, I really doubt it, if it was going to happen it already would have.
Hadley's Hope's more exploitable because of people's fondness for Aliens.
I'm honestly surprised that hasn't happened tbh
But yeah Aliens has been the main film that's been mined for expansion and dumb retcons like that pretty much since it's release it seems
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 28, 2023, 05:11:28 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AMIt feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
Wait until some future story has a ship coming across the fully intact hull of the Nostromo, complete with atmosphere and a functional decapitated Ash aboard it.
You know it's coming.
There was a fan made online choose-your-own adventure that did this many moons ago.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 28, 2023, 09:54:25 PMQuote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 28, 2023, 05:11:28 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AMIt feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
Wait until some future story has a ship coming across the fully intact hull of the Nostromo, complete with atmosphere and a functional decapitated Ash aboard it.
You know it's coming.
There was a fan made online choose-your-own adventure that did this many moons ago.
And it was fun. Nostromo retcon aside.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 29, 2023, 07:08:29 AMAnd it was fun. Nostromo retcon aside.
Pretty sure it had the Giger "Li" design turn up as some kind of Jockey or ur-Alien character at the end. It was a lot of fun; the only frustrating thing about the Nostromo retcon is going to the Nostromo pretty much always ended in dying. I don't think I found a way to escape the ship.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 28, 2023, 09:54:25 PMQuote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 28, 2023, 05:11:28 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 24, 2023, 10:23:38 AMIt feels as bad as the "Somehow, the LV-426 Colony survived" trope we have had multiple times already.
Wait until some future story has a ship coming across the fully intact hull of the Nostromo, complete with atmosphere and a functional decapitated Ash aboard it.
You know it's coming.
There was a fan made online choose-your-own adventure that did this many moons ago.
Link?
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Apr 29, 2023, 12:52:16 PMLink?
You'll need to use Internet Archive to access it now but here's a link:
https://www.angelfire.com/al/metalalien/index.html (https://www.angelfire.com/al/metalalien/index.html)
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 24, 2023, 02:39:42 PMStill waaay worse than anything the "new EU" has given us yet.
I prefer the old EU so far. And I'm personally defining the old EU as anything before the Disney acquisition, especially the darkhorse to marvel changeover.
The Marvel stories are bland and soulless entries. Even though I've only been getting them as TPB so I can't speak for the last series as it is not available yet. I expect that I will like it better just given the synopsis, but can't say for sure.
Technically TCF was an old EU book by that standard, but I do think that Into Charybdis is the singular best novel in the Alien universe. So the new EU scores a win here for me, BUT it is based as a continuation off a story in the old EU. It captures the feel of the first two movies, flips some common plot points around (that have still been done before in the old EU), and has a more serious and somber tone that is missing from a HUGE portion of the EU.
I also think that A:FTE also captures the feel of the old EU, but it isn't polished enough to win me over against games like the OG AvP or AvP2 or even Isolation, which despite being no fun to play is a great example of the Alien universe made interactive in just its presentation and worldbuilding. It might be the most immersive Alien game ever made.
New EU is still in its infancy, and is pumping out media like it aint no thing, so surely it will have some hits, but I grew up in that magic time where the series had unlimited potential and you could see threads of it in the stories of the old EU. So far I'm seeing retread of old stories in most of the new EU, and some attempted fanbaiting with all the links to the old alien stories........instead of new ideas. It is kind of a shame that FTE released without more polish, because it had potential that wasn't fully realized. Especially since it wasn't beholden to previous locations or characters.
To me: Old EU, everything before Alien Isolation, New EU, everything after Alien Isolation.
(I might say Prometheus in 2012, but ACM came out in 2013 and it is pretty definitively not part of current proceedings, The Weyland Yutani Report in 2014 made that fairly obvious.)
Because to be clear, in the past decade since the Weyland Yutani Report and with Alien The RPG, a more concerted effort by Dark Horse and Titan had their version of the universe more neatly woven together.
The Marvel stuff to one side, it is my understanding, that canon and continuity continues today, or am I mistaken?
Old EU is anything prior to Titan. In-house at Fox there was a soft reset of anything prior.
How it's looking to shape up after the merger...Marvel is doing its own thing. Titan seems to still be sticking to the the state of the EU they had with Dark Horse.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 30, 2023, 12:51:53 PMOld EU is anything prior to Titan. In-house at Fox there was a soft reset of anything prior.
How it's looking to shape up after the merger...Marvel is doing its own thing. Titan seems to still be sticking to the the state of the EU they had with Dark Horse.
Tbh I'm expecting a reboot of the EU at some point in the near future. Disney did it with Star Wars then started to reuse/reintroduce characters/concepts from that old star wars EU back in. The only thing that really surprises me so far is that with Star Wars they did that reboot very abruptly to much backlash, while with alien they've continued to let Titan, fireteam elite and the free league rpg do their thing without interruption. I'm still trying to figure out if that's them waiting to do that reboot because they learned their lesson about abrupt reboots from Star Wars, or if they're still trying to figure out what they want to do with the alien franchise and letting this stuff continue while they do...
Or maybe it is fine how it is?
Does it even matter? Even with the more connected angle Fox went for from Out of the Shadows onwards, I still feel like there's not been an awful lot of coherence in the EU.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 30, 2023, 08:32:40 PMDoes it even matter? Even with the more connected angle Fox went for from Out of the Shadows onwards, I still feel like there's not been an awful lot of coherence in the EU.
I agree with that; that's always been the one thing about the EU that's been consistent... lack of coherence and constant reboots with each new film starting with Alien3.
From what I understand, the reason Disney did a hard reboot of the Star Wars EU was so they could have a fresh start and manage that EU much better. Tbh I think they have managed it better; not perfectly but better. Maybe Alien will be managed better from a coherence standpoint but so far the direction they've taken is total garbage and it's not doing them any favors keeping all the stuff PKJ wrote imo.
I figured the lack of coherence was always just an EU thing. I've always considered its own spinoff so the way it is currently doesn't really bother me.
I don't know what the word I'm looking for is, but the old EU, going by my standards, seems to have more spirit or soul in it, despite its flaws or at times never even really feeling like the franchise it represents.
I maintain that AvP2 to me feels more like Jurassic Park for some reason, with all the callbacks and tropes of the Alien and Predator series. Despite that, it has a certain spirit to it that some of what I'm reading or playing nowadays does not. Todays stuff sometimes reads and plays like something that an AI thought up. Or that some dude ran through a computer to process a story and then ran from there.
I honestly think that's just old man syndrome. Monolith's AVP has no more "soul' to me than Phalanx, Into Charybdis or even Dead Orbit less actually, as they all are more deeply considered works of art.
Alien Isolation to me I think in terms of the videogames has the most "soul" but I would say pathos, especially in the atmosphere and score, and how it takes the time to give things weight.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on May 01, 2023, 11:29:36 AMI honestly think that's just old man syndrome.
That's just young person thinking older people can't have sincere opinions if they don't agree with them syndrome.
No, there's a known phenomena where things from when you were 10-13 stick with you more than novel materials, regardless of the quality of either. And that does often intersect with more rational opinions once you get into your late 20's and only gets worse, so she's not entirely off-base here.
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 30, 2023, 09:18:25 PMFrom what I understand, the reason Disney did a hard reboot of the Star Wars EU was so they could have a fresh start and manage that EU much better. Tbh I think they have managed it better; not perfectly but better. Maybe Alien will be managed better from a coherence standpoint but so far the direction they've taken is total garbage and it's not doing them any favors keeping all the stuff PKJ wrote imo.
Disney rebooted Star Wars because there was decades of existing lore spanning novels, cartoons, comics, video games, audio books, action figures, reference books, RPGs, and of course movies. It was all pretty tightly knit and even had a dedicated guy (Leland Chee) to catalogue all of it and make sure it all fit together (reasonably) well.
It got rebooted because it gave Disney the freedom to do whatever they wanted with the sequel trilogy without being hamstrung by 30 years of "lore".
As for keeping the new EU straight... some of it is, some of it is nonsensical, some of it sucks, and tons of stuff is lifted wholesale from the old EU anyway and shoehorned into the "new" framework. And that doesn't even touch on the sequel trilogy, its questionable quality, and its narrative ramifications for the Star Wars "franchise" as a whole.
Who is PKJ?
Philip Kennedy Johnson
The writer marvel hired for the Alien comics. Recently replaced with a new writer.
Oh yeah I haven't read any of the Marvel Aliens stuff (and I'm not convinced I want to).
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 02, 2023, 03:00:59 AMOh yeah I haven't read any of the Marvel Aliens stuff (and I'm not convinced I want to).
Dear Xenomrph,
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- Exceptional Artwork: Marvel's Alien series boasts some truly stunning artwork. The illustrations are vivid and detailed, perfectly capturing the eerie atmosphere and bone-chilling encounters with the Xenomorphs. The visual storytelling is top-notch, and you'll find yourself fully immersed in the world that the artists have brought to life.
- Expanded Universe: One of the most exciting aspects of Marvel's Alien series is the opportunity for further exploration of the franchise's rich universe. The series delves into new territories, introducing fresh storylines and characters that will keep you hooked from issue to issue.
- Perfect for New and Old Fans: Whether you're a die-hard fan of the Alien franchise or a newcomer to the world of Xenomorphs, Marvel's Alien series has something for everyone. The series pays homage to the original films while offering new perspectives and stories that will keep you on the edge of your seat.
I highly recommend giving Marvel's Alien series a chance. It's a thrilling and captivating experience that will make you feel like you're discovering the Alien universe for the first time all over again. Head to your local comic book store or look for digital issues online to start your journey with this fantastic series.
Happy reading, and I hope you enjoy Marvel's Alien series as much as I have!
Best regards,
[Your Name]
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 02, 2023, 03:25:35 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on May 02, 2023, 03:00:59 AMOh yeah I haven't read any of the Marvel Aliens stuff (and I'm not convinced I want to).
Dear Xenomrph,
I hope this message finds you well! I know you have a keen interest in sci-fi and comics, so I wanted to share something with you that I believe you'll absolutely love - Marvel Comics' Alien series.
Given your username, it's clear you're a fan of the Alien franchise. Marvel's take on the iconic universe is a must-read for any fan, and here's why:
- Captivating Storyline: Marvel's Alien series offers a fresh, yet faithful, exploration of the Alien universe. The storyline is well-crafted and packed with suspense, providing a thrilling reading experience. You'll follow new characters as they navigate the terrifying world of Xenomorphs while uncovering the dark secrets of the Weyland-Yutani Corporation.
- Exceptional Artwork: Marvel's Alien series boasts some truly stunning artwork. The illustrations are vivid and detailed, perfectly capturing the eerie atmosphere and bone-chilling encounters with the Xenomorphs. The visual storytelling is top-notch, and you'll find yourself fully immersed in the world that the artists have brought to life.
- Expanded Universe: One of the most exciting aspects of Marvel's Alien series is the opportunity for further exploration of the franchise's rich universe. The series delves into new territories, introducing fresh storylines and characters that will keep you hooked from issue to issue.
- Perfect for New and Old Fans: Whether you're a die-hard fan of the Alien franchise or a newcomer to the world of Xenomorphs, Marvel's Alien series has something for everyone. The series pays homage to the original films while offering new perspectives and stories that will keep you on the edge of your seat.
I highly recommend giving Marvel's Alien series a chance. It's a thrilling and captivating experience that will make you feel like you're discovering the Alien universe for the first time all over again. Head to your local comic book store or look for digital issues online to start your journey with this fantastic series.
Happy reading, and I hope you enjoy Marvel's Alien series as much as I have!
Best regards,
[Your Name]
Is that an actual form letter that got sent out to people? lol
I dunno
But I can say that THAT is more fictitious than the entire alien franchise itself lol
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 02, 2023, 03:25:35 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on May 02, 2023, 03:00:59 AMOh yeah I haven't read any of the Marvel Aliens stuff (and I'm not convinced I want to).
Dear Xenomrph,
I hope this message finds you well! I know you have a keen interest in sci-fi and comics, so I wanted to share something with you that I believe you'll absolutely love - Marvel Comics' Alien series.
Given your username, it's clear you're a fan of the Alien franchise. Marvel's take on the iconic universe is a must-read for any fan, and here's why:
- Captivating Storyline: Marvel's Alien series offers a fresh, yet faithful, exploration of the Alien universe. The storyline is well-crafted and packed with suspense, providing a thrilling reading experience. You'll follow new characters as they navigate the terrifying world of Xenomorphs while uncovering the dark secrets of the Weyland-Yutani Corporation.
- Exceptional Artwork: Marvel's Alien series boasts some truly stunning artwork. The illustrations are vivid and detailed, perfectly capturing the eerie atmosphere and bone-chilling encounters with the Xenomorphs. The visual storytelling is top-notch, and you'll find yourself fully immersed in the world that the artists have brought to life.
- Expanded Universe: One of the most exciting aspects of Marvel's Alien series is the opportunity for further exploration of the franchise's rich universe. The series delves into new territories, introducing fresh storylines and characters that will keep you hooked from issue to issue.
- Perfect for New and Old Fans: Whether you're a die-hard fan of the Alien franchise or a newcomer to the world of Xenomorphs, Marvel's Alien series has something for everyone. The series pays homage to the original films while offering new perspectives and stories that will keep you on the edge of your seat.
I highly recommend giving Marvel's Alien series a chance. It's a thrilling and captivating experience that will make you feel like you're discovering the Alien universe for the first time all over again. Head to your local comic book store or look for digital issues online to start your journey with this fantastic series.
Happy reading, and I hope you enjoy Marvel's Alien series as much as I have!
Best regards,
[Your Name]
I mean, just for the amount of effort this deserves a like
That was more effort than PKJ or larroca put into it 🤷
Thanks ChatGPT.
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 02, 2023, 03:25:35 AMDear Xenomrph,
I hope this message finds you well! I know you have a keen interest in sci-fi and comics, so I wanted to share something with you that I believe you'll absolutely love - Marvel Comics' Alien series.
Given your username, it's clear you're a fan of the Alien franchise. Marvel's take on the iconic universe is a must-read for any fan, and here's why:
- Captivating Storyline: Marvel's Alien series offers a fresh, yet faithful, exploration of the Alien universe. The storyline is well-crafted and packed with suspense, providing a thrilling reading experience. You'll follow new characters as they navigate the terrifying world of Xenomorphs while uncovering the dark secrets of the Weyland-Yutani Corporation.
- Exceptional Artwork: Marvel's Alien series boasts some truly stunning artwork. The illustrations are vivid and detailed, perfectly capturing the eerie atmosphere and bone-chilling encounters with the Xenomorphs. The visual storytelling is top-notch, and you'll find yourself fully immersed in the world that the artists have brought to life.
- Expanded Universe: One of the most exciting aspects of Marvel's Alien series is the opportunity for further exploration of the franchise's rich universe. The series delves into new territories, introducing fresh storylines and characters that will keep you hooked from issue to issue.
- Perfect for New and Old Fans: Whether you're a die-hard fan of the Alien franchise or a newcomer to the world of Xenomorphs, Marvel's Alien series has something for everyone. The series pays homage to the original films while offering new perspectives and stories that will keep you on the edge of your seat.
I highly recommend giving Marvel's Alien series a chance. It's a thrilling and captivating experience that will make you feel like you're discovering the Alien universe for the first time all over again. Head to your local comic book store or look for digital issues online to start your journey with this fantastic series.
Happy reading, and I hope you enjoy Marvel's Alien series as much as I have!
Best regards,
[Your Name]
If we ever start doing community awards on this forum, I hope you get Shit-Stirrer in-Chief :D
That's obviously ChatGPT
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 27, 2023, 11:03:08 AMQuote from: Kradan on Apr 27, 2023, 10:15:24 AMFor a layman like me, it as nonsensical as a creature having acidic blood
Acid blood isn't nonsensical at all. Lots of bodily fluids are acidic, like the hydrochloric acid in our stomachs we use to digest food.
Plus bishop does mention it oxidizes when exposed to air, so it may be non-corrosive until it bleeds.
Assuming it's acidic all the time though... hudafuk just said exactly the same thing I would have. Acids are great at transferring energy, hence why batteries have acids in them. It's essentially a living battery and in my head canon, the reason it can live so long without sustenance; it's very efficient at using the energy its body has stored up.
I was thinking the same thing. In Vasquez they use the term "acidic" as opposed to acid blood which only indicates a PH below 7. Different acids with PH below 3 can be stored safely.. sulphuric acid will not melt lead but it will burn your skin, hydrofluoric acid can be stored in plastic, fluorine can be kept in copper.
I'm not sure what the Nostromo hull was built of, and whether this would give an indication of what the properties is closest to.
Also.. is it really blood? Maybe not in our sense of the word? If the purpose of blood is to move oxygen around the body and it doesn't need oxygen.. or doesn't have organs.. then it isn't really blood.
In my weird Google searches of the day there are 8 animals that don't have a heart (that we know of) so it's entirely possible its purpose is nothing more than a defence mechanism like toads with toxins in their skin.
I looked through David's Drawings and can't see a cross section of the finished creature. Maybe someone here knows if one exists?
Quote from: Sarahlyn35 on May 02, 2023, 06:21:31 PMQuote from: Engineer on Apr 27, 2023, 11:03:08 AMQuote from: Kradan on Apr 27, 2023, 10:15:24 AMFor a layman like me, it as nonsensical as a creature having acidic blood
Acid blood isn't nonsensical at all. Lots of bodily fluids are acidic, like the hydrochloric acid in our stomachs we use to digest food.
Plus bishop does mention it oxidizes when exposed to air, so it may be non-corrosive until it bleeds.
Assuming it's acidic all the time though... hudafuk just said exactly the same thing I would have. Acids are great at transferring energy, hence why batteries have acids in them. It's essentially a living battery and in my head canon, the reason it can live so long without sustenance; it's very efficient at using the energy its body has stored up.
I was thinking the same thing. In Vasquez they use the term "acidic" as opposed to acid blood which only indicates a PH below 7. Different acids with PH below 3 can be stored safely.. sulphuric acid will not melt lead but it will burn your skin, hydrofluoric acid can be stored in plastic, fluorine can be kept in copper.
I'm not sure what the Nostromo hull was built of, and whether this would give an indication of what the properties is closest to.
Also.. is it really blood? Maybe not in our sense of the word? If the purpose of blood is to move oxygen around the body and it doesn't need oxygen.. or doesn't have organs.. then it isn't really blood.
In my weird Google searches of the day there are 8 animals that don't have a heart (that we know of) so it's entirely possible its purpose is nothing more than a defence mechanism like toads with toxins in their skin.
I looked through David's Drawings and can't see a cross section of the finished creature. Maybe someone here knows if one exists?
I think there's a diagram of anatomy in the Weyland Yutani report. It doesn't show them having a heart, but they do have "aortic arches" whatever that is lol
Nah, I wouldn't think their blood functions the same way as human blood (I.e., transferring oxygen around the body), but I still believe it functions similarly by transferring energy around its body, which to be clear, I admit is my own head canon. That can change in a heartbeat (pun intended) with any new release that comes out and chooses to address this stuff...
Another idea I've seen floated is that the acid isn't blood but a different fluid entirely that's stored in a separate layer beneath the exoskeleton for defensive purposes.
That arguably makes more biological sense (there are animals that can secrete all kinds of noxious chemicals for defence) but I personally like the battery-acid-for-blood concept more.
Quote from: Engineer on May 02, 2023, 04:15:32 AMI dunno
But I can say that THAT is more fictitious than the entire alien franchise itself lol
Maybe ChatGPT knows something about the egg in the Sulaco, or what happened to David and the Covenant.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 02, 2023, 06:52:16 PMAnother idea I've seen floated is that the acid isn't blood but a different fluid entirely that's stored in a separate layer beneath the exoskeleton for defensive purposes.
That arguably makes more biological sense (there are animals that can secrete all kinds of noxious chemicals for defence) but I personally like the battery-acid-for-blood concept more.
Maybe it's like THC
(https://i.ibb.co/m5dCVSc/Screenshot-20230502-145620-Chrome.jpg)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 02, 2023, 06:52:16 PMAnother idea I've seen floated is that the acid isn't blood but a different fluid entirely that's stored in a separate layer beneath the exoskeleton for defensive purposes.
That arguably makes more biological sense (there are animals that can secrete all kinds of noxious chemicals for defence) but I personally like the battery-acid-for-blood concept more.
I mean.. it sounds WAY cooler!
Quote from: Sarahlyn35 on May 02, 2023, 07:01:07 PMI mean.. it sounds WAY cooler!
The living battery concept also ties in to the idea they're engineered rather than naturally-occurring creatures, and as much as I hate the way that was presented in
Covenant, as a concept it's one I've always really liked.
I just strongly disagree with Ridley that we needed it spelt out for us ;D
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 02, 2023, 07:08:48 PMQuote from: Sarahlyn35 on May 02, 2023, 07:01:07 PMI mean.. it sounds WAY cooler!
The living battery concept also ties in to the idea they're engineered rather than naturally-occurring creatures, and as much as I hate the way that was presented in Covenant, as a concept it's one I've always really liked.
I just strongly disagree with Ridley that we needed it spelt out for us ;D
I could deal with it being engineered rather than natural evolution, it even makes more sense probably. But... by an android created by man? Snoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooore!
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 02, 2023, 06:59:44 PMQuote from: Engineer on May 02, 2023, 04:15:32 AMI dunno
But I can say that THAT is more fictitious than the entire alien franchise itself lol
Maybe ChatGPT knows something about the egg in the Sulaco, or what happened to David and the Covenant.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 02, 2023, 06:52:16 PMAnother idea I've seen floated is that the acid isn't blood but a different fluid entirely that's stored in a separate layer beneath the exoskeleton for defensive purposes.
That arguably makes more biological sense (there are animals that can secrete all kinds of noxious chemicals for defence) but I personally like the battery-acid-for-blood concept more.
Maybe it's like THC
https://i.ibb.co/m5dCVSc/Screenshot-20230502-145620-Chrome.jpg
(https://i.gyazo.com/40039e24ea4f78f355d642cbb114af91.png)
(X)
DoubtAt least around here...
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 30, 2023, 04:14:22 PMTbh I'm expecting a reboot of the EU at some point in the near future. Disney did it with Star Wars
Disney actually cares about the profitability of Star Wars and Star Wars fans are obsessive about the franchise. Aliens was nothing more than a licensable movie monster to Fox, and it's probably no more important to Disney. They didn't care about the RPG (Gaska was just allowed to use his head canon) and they certainly don't care about continuity since we know that Hawley's TV series is yet another canon-muddling prequel set in the early 2100s.
There's no Alien canon, in any traditional sense of that word.
QuoteAs I've said - "for a layman like me". How many viewers actually thought about whether or not acidic blood makes sense ? O'Bannon himself probably didn't
I'm no biologist but I don't think that stomach acid is as potent as Xeno's blood is shown to be. Probably cause it's supposed to digest food not melt spaceship decks. Also, we don't have acid running in our veins. Probably for a reason too
If whatever the Alien's body chemistry is, is non-reactive with that type of acid, then it would be fine. For example, fluoropolymers like Teflon are non-reactive to many acids, which is why Teflon is a preferred storage material for them. Our insides have evolved to contain and resist stomach acid because it is sufficient for our digestive uses, most of which is breaking down plant and animal matter.
I mean, it's still a little bit implausible that a highly corrosive hydro-fluorine compound with some kind of accelerant would end up as a body fluid, but then again, if the Alien is truly a genetically engineered bioweapon from an advanced species, it might not be beyond possibility to have engineered them that way.
The thing to keep in mind is that the "acid blood" doesn't follow any real logic or scientific consistency - it does exactly as much damage as the story's plot needs it to do in that particular instance, no matter what material it's encountering.
The final chapter in the Colonial Marines Technical Manual even lampshades this - they try to figure out what the acid blood is and end up concluding that it doesn't make any sense, although I think the closest to a consensus they come to on it is that it's maybe some kind of hydrofluoric acid. They do theorize that Teflon might be able to stop it, though.
Aliens: Bishop cover revealed... absolute dirty brown trash water. Sorry to anyone involved and sorry to be negative, y'all. Happy Saturday!
Update: Blackstone Library also revealed the novel's audiobook will be read/narrated by a various cast of characters including one of our recent favs. Read by Tim Campbell , Shiromi Arserio , Eunice Wong , Kevin Kenerly , Nancy Wu , Pun Bandhu , and Alex Boyles
https://www.blackstonelibrary.com/aliens-bishop?sp=477109
Cover looks supremely crappy. That image of Bishop piloting Smart Ass would've been waaaaay better.
(https://dyn.media.forbiddenplanet.com/ZkTJIxdT40p1d43EehSBKuGvAAs=/trim/fit-in/394x600/filters:format(webp)/https://media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/cd/32/cd03c0ce702eff61c6fd149dc45e1dcce0ac.jpg)
Yeah, it's not a good cover haha.
I'm also a little curious as to why Rachel Caine wasn't chosen to write this novel. She hit it out of the park with Broken in Bug Hunt.
I dunno, it's at least original art.
I'll take that over all the terrible Colonial Marines screenshots we've had.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 19, 2023, 07:02:49 PMI dunno, it's at least original art.
I'll take that over all the terrible Colonial Marines screenshots we've had.
Fair point. I am, however, intrigued by the ensemble cast slated to narrate the audiobook.
I like the cover, it's simple and subtle. Besides,I always prefer piece of original cover art instead of shitty photoshoped models of Aliens from Colonial Marines. Titan made progress with that with last few books. I'm a little bit concerned about synopsis though. Michael Bishop trying to extract data about Xenomorphs from android's brain and seeming to not working for Company anymore is interesting, but when it mentions Capone's brother I cringed. Let's finally stop retroactively adding to known characters' history and adding hundreds of their family members who also encountered Xenos. It makes this universe feel small. It's the same shit that they did with Palpatine's grand daughter in Rise of Skywalker.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Aug 19, 2023, 04:39:53 PMI'm also a little curious as to why Rachel Caine wasn't chosen to write this novel. She hit it out of the park with Broken in Bug Hunt.
Yeah, her short was one of few really good one's from Bug Hunt. Also an example of story set in Alien Universe and not involving actual Aliens, or any monsters, and still being interesting. But let's give T.R. Napper a chance, maybe he will suprise us with this story. Eh, I hope that we'll get solid novel after a few that were from middling to very bad.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Aug 20, 2023, 09:05:26 AMYeah, her short was one of few really good one's from Bug Hunt. Also an example of story set in Alien Universe and not involving actual Aliens, or any monsters, and still being interesting. But let's give T.R. Napper a chance, maybe he will suprise us with this story. Eh, I hope that we'll get solid novel after a few that were from middling to very bad.
The only way is up.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 19, 2023, 07:02:49 PMI dunno, it's at least original art.
That was my immediate reaction too. It's okay, I guess. Kind of minimalistic.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Aug 20, 2023, 09:05:26 AMI'm a little bit concerned about synopsis though. Michael Bishop trying to extract data about Xenomorphs from android's brain and seeming to not working for Company anymore is interesting, but when it mentions Capone's brother I cringed. Let's finally stop retroactively adding to known characters' history and adding hundreds of their family members who also encountered Xenos. It makes this universe feel small. It's the same shit that they did with Palpatine's grand daughter in Rise of Skywalker.
I still have the same concern. I think Michael Bishop is actually a really good character to come back and explore and I've always been a little surprised we never saw him (or Morse) come back, so I was really onboard with the synopsis until it mentioned Apone's story. With how lackluster Vasquez was, I'm not too confident in this one (and tbf Titan has really not been impressing me lately) but I'll certainly give it a read and hope for the best!
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 21, 2023, 10:50:43 AMI still have the same concern. I think Michael Bishop is actually a really good character to come back and explore and I've always been a little surprised we never saw him (or Morse) come back, so I was really onboard with the synopsis until it mentioned Apone's story. With how lackluster Vasquez was, I'm not too confident in this one (and tbf Titan has really not been impressing me lately) but I'll certainly give it a read and hope for the best!
In Vasquez addition of her having children itself was well handled at least. Situation where military had control over her pregnancy and her having to give them away was quite emotional stuff, shame that stories of both of her children weren't told so well later, especially with very weak conclusion. But we still have making a main character out of Amanda in Isolation, so it can be done well. I hope that Apone's brother stuff will be handled good, or at least won't be offensively bad and cheap. And yeah, it's time for Titan to get back on track with their novels, they had streak of middling ones lately.
Amanda being a character was different, because we already knew she existed from the Special Edition. It made sense to go there.
That's not the same as retroactively creating a relative that nobody seemed to know about... for like the third or fourth time now.
What is the release date for this?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 22, 2023, 08:31:39 AMAmanda being a character was different, because we already knew she existed from the Special Edition. It made sense to go there.
That's not the same as retroactively creating a relative that nobody seemed to know about... for like the third or fourth time now.
Yeah, but in those cases things also can get cheap quickly. Adding little side stories of already existing characters that no one mentions later is tricky. That's the main reason why I don't like Out of The Shadows or why Navarro's short from Bug Hunt is so terrible.
Besides, look what they did with Amanda after Isolation. She was in too many stories and became almost super hero, but in none of those stories her character was really further developed and she hadn't got any important role.
I agree, but if this turns out well to be fair military families are a very real thing.
Quote from: Wweyland on Aug 22, 2023, 09:28:34 AMWhat is the release date for this?
Initially it was late October, but now it's apparently December.
At least the cover is not a screenshot from Aliens: Colonial Marines
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 22, 2023, 03:59:05 PMI agree, but if this turns out well to be fair military families are a very real thing.
Hopefully it'll also lead to an actual Apone novel! Quite honestly, I think
every Marine in
Aliens should get their own novel.
Even Wierzbowski.
No,
especially Wierzbowski.
No thank you... honestly, I am actually hoping that in this novel, his brother never finds out what happened to his unit, he turns up just after both Bishops disappear forever and never encounters an Alien. A story about how the military splits loyalties, about grief, about acceptance.
With the interaction between Bishop and Bishop just being an extended conversation.
If only.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 23, 2023, 12:15:06 PMNo thank you... honestly, I am actually hoping that in this novel, his brother never finds out what happened to his unit, he turns up just after both Bishops disappear forever and never encounters an Alien. A story about how the military splits loyalties, about grief, about acceptance.
With the interaction between Bishop and Bishop just being an extended conversation.
If only.
The cover is indicating otherwise, I'm afraid.
I wonder if it's going to take a similar approach to the unproduced Alien 3 screenplay - Bishop holds the key to creating Xenomorphs, people create Xenomorphs, Xenomorphs get loose on a space station, people get chewed, hero gets away and vows to bring Wey-Yu down.
Yeah, probably.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Aug 23, 2023, 10:49:54 AMHopefully it'll also lead to an actual Apone novel! Quite honestly, I think every Marine in Aliens should get their own novel.
Considering how the
Aliens character prequels in the
Bug Hunt anthology were almost universally rubbish, I really hope not.
I dunno, Vasquez was received fairly well.
Not according to the reviews I saw lol.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 23, 2023, 12:15:06 PMNo thank you... honestly, I am actually hoping that in this novel, his brother never finds out what happened to his unit, he turns up just after both Bishops disappear forever and never encounters an Alien. A story about how the military splits loyalties, about grief, about acceptance.
With the interaction between Bishop and Bishop just being an extended conversation.
If only.
A serious story about the in universe military and about the pain that's left behind when units disappear cause of the mistakes made by the military or companies. I'd love that too. To be professionally written, with a serious undertone about the emotional and phycological life of a character in this world, not something that'll feel like fanfic.
But I doubt we'll see something like that...
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Aug 23, 2023, 10:49:54 AMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 22, 2023, 03:59:05 PMI agree, but if this turns out well to be fair military families are a very real thing.
Hopefully it'll also lead to an actual Apone novel! Quite honestly, I think every Marine in Aliens should get their own novel.
Even Wierzbowski.
No, especially Wierzbowski.
Gross.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 25, 2023, 12:21:00 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Aug 23, 2023, 10:49:54 AMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 22, 2023, 03:59:05 PMI agree, but if this turns out well to be fair military families are a very real thing.
Hopefully it'll also lead to an actual Apone novel! Quite honestly, I think every Marine in Aliens should get their own novel.
Even Wierzbowski.
No, especially Wierzbowski.
Gross.
Really? Christopher Golden included Wierzbowski in
Blowback, and portrayed him as unintelligent to boot. That was a whole year after Trevor Steedman passed away. And why can't the Wierz-man live on?
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Aug 25, 2023, 08:02:11 AMQuote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 25, 2023, 12:21:00 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Aug 23, 2023, 10:49:54 AMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 22, 2023, 03:59:05 PMI agree, but if this turns out well to be fair military families are a very real thing.
Hopefully it'll also lead to an actual Apone novel! Quite honestly, I think every Marine in Aliens should get their own novel.
Even Wierzbowski.
No, especially Wierzbowski.
Gross.
Really? Christopher Golden included Wierzbowski in Blowback, and portrayed him as unintelligent to boot. That was a whole year after Trevor Steedman passed away. And why can't the Wierz-man live on?
Yes, really. Masturbatory fanfic about irrelevant, dead characters takes up release slots that could be used for something actually interesting.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 26, 2023, 09:39:22 PMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Aug 25, 2023, 08:02:11 AMQuote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 25, 2023, 12:21:00 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Aug 23, 2023, 10:49:54 AMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 22, 2023, 03:59:05 PMI agree, but if this turns out well to be fair military families are a very real thing.
Hopefully it'll also lead to an actual Apone novel! Quite honestly, I think every Marine in Aliens should get their own novel.
Even Wierzbowski.
No, especially Wierzbowski.
Gross.
Really? Christopher Golden included Wierzbowski in Blowback, and portrayed him as unintelligent to boot. That was a whole year after Trevor Steedman passed away. And why can't the Wierz-man live on?
Yes, really. Masturbatory fanfic about irrelevant, dead characters takes up release slots that could be used for something actually interesting.
Somehow I get the feeling that "actually interesting" is beyond Titan's purview right now.
lately it feels that whoever wants a quick buck via a ride in the IP train, can just do a pitch to Titan.
Quote from: skhellter on Aug 27, 2023, 11:35:15 AMlately it feels that whoever wants a quick buck via a ride in the IP train, can just do a pitch to Titan.
When he was writing Star Wars novels in the 90s, Kevin J Anderson referred to it as "flipping burgers."
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 27, 2023, 11:48:04 AMQuote from: skhellter on Aug 27, 2023, 11:35:15 AMlately it feels that whoever wants a quick buck via a ride in the IP train, can just do a pitch to Titan.
When he was writing Star Wars novels in the 90s, Kevin J Anderson referred to it as "flipping burgers."
It showed in his writing.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Aug 27, 2023, 08:37:38 AMSomehow I get the feeling that "actually interesting" is beyond Titan's purview right now.
I'd like them to at least
try. Young Hudson learning to cope with his parents divorce by being the class clown and Dillon Rapes A Bitch aren't compelling at all, and crucially, don't feature the titular creature or any real link to it.
Based on the hit films from 20th Century Studios:
"Alien: Predators"
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNDZiNDNiODYtZDM4YS00NGU5LWI4NjYtZDhmZDE3MWQ4NmJiXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjQ4ODE4MzQ@._V1_.jpg)
"Hey Dillon my man, do you have the time there?"
(https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Dillon_Leonard_6456.jpg)
"Yeah, it's five o'clock, why?"
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Walton_Goggins_by_Gage_Skidmore.jpg/640px-Walton_Goggins_by_Gage_Skidmore.jpg)
Posts like this are why I love ya <3
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 27, 2023, 08:43:56 PMI'd like them to at least try. Young Hudson learning to cope with his parents divorce by being the class clown and Dillon Rapes A Bitch aren't compelling at all, and crucially, don't feature the titular creature or any real link to it.
I'm frankly depressed by the number of people who think having an Alien in an Alien story is more or less optional these days.
There's ways to do it (have the shadow of the thing cast large against the narrative - although no more relatives, Isolation got away with it the once despite not because of that), but those should be the rarest of morsels in a huge creature feature buffet.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 28, 2023, 05:36:13 AMThere's ways to do it (have the shadow of the thing cast large against the narrative
Nah, if it's not in the bloody thing don't call it
Alien.
Prometheus had the right idea.
Again, it's fine once in a very long while. Although I'm not opposed to the naming convention, if that's what you're hung up on specifically.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 28, 2023, 08:48:29 AMAgain, it's fine once in a very long while.
Again, hard no.
If Prometheus was a perfectly well written commercial and critical darling I wonder if you would still feel this way.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 28, 2023, 11:24:39 AMIf Prometheus was a perfectly well written commercial and critical darling I wonder if you would still feel this way.
Yes, because Prometheus has nothing to do with what I think, and my opinions aren't founded on box office takings or what other people like.
Again, super depressing that saying "I think Alien stories should have Aliens in them" is somehow a contentious point.
No way, now how, that you could like it then?
One of the shorts in Bug Hunt that had no capital-A Aliens in it wound up being perhaps my favourite in the book.
But I get where SiL's coming from.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 28, 2023, 03:32:06 PMOne of the shorts in Bug Hunt that had no capital-A Aliens in it wound up being perhaps my favourite in the book.
But I get where SiL's coming from.
Would that be
Reaper, or
Broken?
Sometimes stories about the consequences of something can be more interesting than featuring the thing itself.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Aug 28, 2023, 07:10:33 PMWould that be Reaper, or Broken?
Reaper.
Broken had elements I liked but for the most part I didn't much care for it. In fact I didn't particularly like any of the "
Aliens prequels" featuring Marines from the film. They just felt really weak and unnecessary.
And don't even get me started on the one where Hicks encountered the f**king Alien before
Aliens...
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 28, 2023, 08:10:25 PMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Aug 28, 2023, 07:10:33 PMWould that be Reaper, or Broken?
Reaper.
Broken had elements I liked but for the most part I didn't much care for it. In fact I didn't particularly like any of the "Aliens prequels" featuring Marines from the film. They just felt really weak and unnecessary.
And don't even get me started on the one where Hicks encountered the f**king Alien before Aliens...
The Hicks story is a bit much, but it's still well written. I really like
Broken, though. For me, it has just the right amount of fanservice; the ending with Hudson whooping at Bishop's knife trick sets up the scene in
Aliens rather nicely and gives it a little more context, plus Bishop's internal monologues really give us more of what's going on in his head.
I think it's great, personally.
Along with
Reaper,
Broken is one of the two best stories in
Bug Hunt. Apparently Andrew Gaska feels the same way, seeing as both are referenced in the RPG as well! Shame we won't get to see Rachel Caine write a whole novel on Bishop. What could have been...
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 28, 2023, 03:32:06 PMOne of the shorts in Bug Hunt that had no capital-A Aliens in it wound up being perhaps my favourite in the book.
But I get where SiL's coming from.
This is really the exception - a short in an anthology collection that, overall, still features Aliens. Because then it's basically a chapter without Aliens and you move on to find them later.
And for the record I'm not saying an Alien story without Aliens can't be a good story. Just not one I'll be interested in.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 28, 2023, 08:10:25 PMBroken had elements I liked but for the most part I didn't much care for it. In fact I didn't particularly like any of the "Aliens prequels" featuring Marines from the film. They just felt really weak and unnecessary.
Yeah, they weren't great. And was odd Dietrich getting 2... I do remember particularly enjoying the Bishop one though.
QuoteAnd don't even get me started on the one where Hicks encountered the f**king Alien before Aliens...
One of the worse pieces of Alien fiction. And made even more disappointing by it being written by Yvonne Navarro because Music of the Spears is one of my favourites. To be fair, Bug Hunt in general was just so poor anyway.
I'm okay with stories set in the Alien universe without the Alien. Whether that's just human characters, or Engineers, or other Accelerant-based creatures. I've no issue with that at all. Just give me a little subtitle about it being an Alien Universe Story or some nonsense like that so I have my expectations set at the start.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 29, 2023, 08:43:20 AMOne of the worse pieces of Alien fiction. And made even more disappointing by it being written by Yvonne Navarro because Music of the Spears is one of my favourites.
It wasn't badly written, from what I remember, it's just that the concept was total dog shit, and I'm gonna assume that didn't come from Navarro.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 29, 2023, 09:39:57 AMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 29, 2023, 08:43:20 AMOne of the worse pieces of Alien fiction. And made even more disappointing by it being written by Yvonne Navarro because Music of the Spears is one of my favourites.
It wasn't badly written, from what I remember, it's just that the concept was total dog shit, and I'm gonna assume that didn't come from Navarro.
I've read through BugHunt twice and the way I interpreted it Hicks was facing off against some other type of lowercase alien. The only description that I recall was that it was black and fast. But perhaps I only read into it that way because Hicks seeing an Alien prior to the events of Aliens would be a weird choice.
It was definitely meant to be *the* Alien if you ask me.
I was praying the whole way through that wasn't where it was headed, because I saw it coming a mile away, but alas...
And let's be honest, having Hicks encounter the Alien before he ever encountered the Alien wasn't even the dumbest decision made in any of those stories.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 29, 2023, 10:42:18 AMAnd let's be honest, having Hicks encounter the Alien before he ever encountered the Alien wasn't even the dumbest decision made in any of those stories.
No,that dubious recognition goes to the Burke story. Even the
writer admits that it makes no sense!
That wasn't so much a bad decision as it was the sorry simply being unfinished and still containing editor's notes.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 29, 2023, 05:48:06 PMThat wasn't so much a bad decision as it was the sorry simply being unfinished and still containing editor's notes.
For me, it's the worst story in the book. Followed closely by Zero to Hero. Spit aliens.
SPIT ALIENS.
Quote from: Retropocalypse on Aug 19, 2023, 03:59:36 PMhttps://dyn.media.forbiddenplanet.com/ZkTJIxdT40p1d43EehSBKuGvAAs=/trim/fit-in/394x600/filters:format(webp)/https://media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/cd/32/cd03c0ce702eff61c6fd149dc45e1dcce0ac.jpg
Yeah, it's not a good cover haha.
NGL this is way better than the Deviantart digitally touched up video game screenshots they usually do.
Did the newer versions of Bug Hunt fix the editor notes?
The Bishop cover is pretty good and actually adds a lot.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 29, 2023, 08:43:20 AMQuote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 28, 2023, 08:10:25 PMBroken had elements I liked but for the most part I didn't much care for it. In fact I didn't particularly like any of the "Aliens prequels" featuring Marines from the film. They just felt really weak and unnecessary.
Yeah, they weren't great. And was odd Dietrich getting 2... I do remember particularly enjoying the Bishop one though.
QuoteAnd don't even get me started on the one where Hicks encountered the f**king Alien before Aliens...
One of the worse pieces of Alien fiction. And made even more disappointing by it being written by Yvonne Navarro because Music of the Spears is one of my favourites. To be fair, Bug Hunt in general was just so poor anyway.
I'm okay with stories set in the Alien universe without the Alien. Whether that's just human characters, or Engineers, or other Accelerant-based creatures. I've no issue with that at all. Just give me a little subtitle about it being an Alien Universe Story or some nonsense like that so I have my expectations set at the start.
About Navarro, I'm not surprised anymore. Music of the Spears was an established story she adapted. But everything original from her I've seen has been bad. In both the Alien and AvP anthologies, but especially Rift War. There's not one thing there that is the problem. It's the combination of a million factors of the book. And I hope that didn't kill the AvP side of things cause of the reception...
Quote from: Wweyland on Sep 04, 2023, 10:03:41 PMDid the newer versions of Bug Hunt fix the editor notes?
I remember hearing there was a corrected edition but the last time I checked a copy in an actual bookstore (which was admittedly quite some time ago) it still had the errors.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Sep 04, 2023, 10:21:43 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 29, 2023, 08:43:20 AMQuote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 28, 2023, 08:10:25 PMBroken had elements I liked but for the most part I didn't much care for it. In fact I didn't particularly like any of the "Aliens prequels" featuring Marines from the film. They just felt really weak and unnecessary.
Yeah, they weren't great. And was odd Dietrich getting 2... I do remember particularly enjoying the Bishop one though.
QuoteAnd don't even get me started on the one where Hicks encountered the f**king Alien before Aliens...
One of the worse pieces of Alien fiction. And made even more disappointing by it being written by Yvonne Navarro because Music of the Spears is one of my favourites. To be fair, Bug Hunt in general was just so poor anyway.
I'm okay with stories set in the Alien universe without the Alien. Whether that's just human characters, or Engineers, or other Accelerant-based creatures. I've no issue with that at all. Just give me a little subtitle about it being an Alien Universe Story or some nonsense like that so I have my expectations set at the start.
About Navarro, I'm not surprised anymore. Music of the Spears was an established story she adapted. But everything original from her I've seen has been bad. In both the Alien and AvP anthologies, but especially Rift War. There's not one thing there that is the problem. It's the combination of a million factors of the book. And I hope that didn't kill the AvP side of things cause of the reception...
I remember rather enjoying her short in Ultimate Prey, but I can't remember Eyes of the Demon well enough to really comment there.
Just a heads up that some people on facebook have received this book. Despite the 12/12 release date many UK stockists such as WHSmith and Waterstones are listing this as being in stock.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 15, 2023, 07:12:29 PMJust a heads up that some people on facebook have received this book. Despite the 12/12 release date many UK stockists such as WHSmith and Waterstones are listing this as being in stock.
Yup. Over ten copies in my neck of the woods!
I've ordered a copy from Waterstones. We normally get them early in the UK (Titan's a UK company), but it's usually on the shelves of the various Forbidden Planet's (Titan owns them).
Ordered mine as well!
Looks like Christmas with Bishop
I wonder if the Haarsa incident is gonna be referenced.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 19, 2023, 08:50:31 AMI wonder if the Haarsa incident is gonna be referenced.
Is that from Bug Hunt?
Quote from: Wweyland on Sep 19, 2023, 10:30:30 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 19, 2023, 08:50:31 AMI wonder if the Haarsa incident is gonna be referenced.
Is that from Bug Hunt?
Yep, but it was also mentioned in the Colonial Marines RPG book, so it's canon.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 19, 2023, 03:33:30 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Sep 19, 2023, 10:30:30 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 19, 2023, 08:50:31 AMI wonder if the Haarsa incident is gonna be referenced.
Is that from Bug Hunt?
Yep, but it was also mentioned in the Colonial Marines RPG book, so it's canon.
Is the RPG book some kind of canon bible?
Quote from: Wweyland on Sep 20, 2023, 12:38:11 PMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 19, 2023, 03:33:30 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Sep 19, 2023, 10:30:30 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 19, 2023, 08:50:31 AMI wonder if the Haarsa incident is gonna be referenced.
Is that from Bug Hunt?
Yep, but it was also mentioned in the Colonial Marines RPG book, so it's canon.
Is the RPG book some kind of canon bible?
In a way. It's Level 2 canon, which basically means "canon until Sir Ridders or someone like him says otherwise".
Quote from: Wweyland on Sep 20, 2023, 12:38:11 PMIs the RPG book some kind of canon bible?
Some people seem to view it that way.
Personally far too much of it doesn't gel with the films and is just obvious gameplay mechanics for me to give it that much weight.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 20, 2023, 01:10:13 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Sep 20, 2023, 12:38:11 PMIs the RPG book some kind of canon bible?
Some people seem to view it that way.
Personally far too much of it doesn't gel with the films and is just obvious gameplay mechanics for me to give it that much weight.
I think it dovetails with the movies quite nicely, with some pretty cool expansions - Andrews, Boggs and Rains getting Ovomorphed, for one.
Plus, I like the sly references! The description of the RMC-F903WE assault rifle rocks: "While its armour-piercing capabilities are limited, it can still f**k up your perfect composure." Blindin'.
"Bloody hell, mate. I wouldn't f**k you with her pussy."
And there was me, thinking it couldn't get any worse than "Pugh, Pugh, McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub".
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 24, 2023, 10:20:38 AM"Bloody hell, mate. I wouldn't f**k you with her pussy."
And there was me, thinking it couldn't get any worse than "Pugh, Pugh, McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub".
This not great then? This was one book I was actually looking forward to as a direct continuation of Alien 3.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 24, 2023, 11:02:05 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 24, 2023, 10:20:38 AM"Bloody hell, mate. I wouldn't f**k you with her pussy."
And there was me, thinking it couldn't get any worse than "Pugh, Pugh, McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub".
This not great then? This was one book I was actually looking forward to as a direct continuation of Alien 3.
I'll answer your question with the following, from which you may draw your own conclusions.
You know the bar Hudson wanted to open in the
Aliens novelization? Referenced here as well! And what is it called?
The
Tech Noir.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 24, 2023, 11:19:24 AMQuote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 24, 2023, 11:02:05 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 24, 2023, 10:20:38 AM"Bloody hell, mate. I wouldn't f**k you with her pussy."
And there was me, thinking it couldn't get any worse than "Pugh, Pugh, McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub".
This not great then? This was one book I was actually looking forward to as a direct continuation of Alien 3.
I'll answer your question with the following, from which you may draw your own conclusions.
You know the bar Hudson wanted to open in the Aliens novelization? Referenced here as well! And what is it called?
The Tech Noir.
>:(
My copy still hasn't shipped from Waterstones.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 24, 2023, 12:40:08 PMMy copy still hasn't shipped from Waterstones.
Neither did mine. Get it from WHSmith instead.
There must be some good points to this? Are their Aliens in it or is it all just about the politics?
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 24, 2023, 01:21:17 PMThere must be some good points to this? Are their Aliens in it or is it all just about the politics?
The author's blatant Aussie self-insert character compares the Three World Empire symbol to the Nazi swastika, and one of the Royal Marines has an "imperial chin", whatever that means. And apparently the 3WE is now an evil dictatorship that shuts down universities for "harbouring subversives".
But, uh, yeah, some aliens do show up. They, er, cocoon people and stuff.
They haven't really even fleshed out the 3WE and they're making it a cartoon villain state already? I haven't read this yet, so will try to at some point before I make my final judgement, but can Titan actually hire competent authors again?
I like the RPG quite a lot (even though the criticisms against it are legit), but every novel that has had anything to do with the RPG has caricatured the elements to the extreme. it's like a bunch of friends, amateur RPG players are writing these books. Maybe not, some of the GMs and players do a better job of creating top level stories.
Yeah ive said a few times now. The novels started going downhill when they started crossing with the RPG. A shame because the RPG is largely excellent.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Sep 24, 2023, 02:02:41 PMThey haven't really even fleshed out the 3WE and they're making it a cartoon villain state already?
Kick in the teeth, no? The 3WE is such a diverse mix of countries that it has the potential to be the most interesting of the conglomerate nations, and that potential has been roundly squandered so far.
Wait it's already out? I thought it would be arriving in December.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 24, 2023, 08:06:55 PMQuote from: Still Collating... on Sep 24, 2023, 02:02:41 PMThey haven't really even fleshed out the 3WE and they're making it a cartoon villain state already?
Kick in the teeth, no? The 3WE is such a diverse mix of countries that it has the potential to be the most interesting of the conglomerate nations, and that potential has been roundly squandered so far.
I'm currently doing a little zoomed in world building for 3WE PMCs, primarily because there's some really nice plastic miniatures for sci-fi soldiers that are very
Aliens but not quite enough to be USCMC for real-world legal reasons, and I need to justify the purchase/painting effort. :laugh:
Definitely going more Libertarian "paradise" than Fascist with my musings there, because, why wouldn't you in Alien?
Also...
Spoiler
Robert Morse shows up.
And he asks for... ICE CREAM! 'Cos he says "ice cream" in Alien 3!
*barks and claps like a seal*
Man, I gotta start spoilering this shit.
EDIT: So I did!
Ironically he's the only minor character who actually deserves some EU love. Even then, I'd say a whole novel would be too much.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Sep 25, 2023, 08:35:48 PMIronically he's the only minor character who actually deserves some EU love. Even then, I'd say a whole novel would be too much.
🍦
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 25, 2023, 08:28:24 PMAlso...
Spoiler
Robert Morse shows up.
And he asks for... ICE CREAM! 'Cos he says "ice cream" in Alien 3!
*barks and claps like a seal*
Man, I gotta start spoilering this shit.
EDIT: So I did!
Long overdue, but excellent!
Quote from: Wweyland on Sep 26, 2023, 12:59:09 PMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 25, 2023, 08:28:24 PMAlso...
Spoiler
Robert Morse shows up.
And he asks for... ICE CREAM! 'Cos he says "ice cream" in Alien 3!
*barks and claps like a seal*
Man, I gotta start spoilering this shit.
EDIT: So I did!
Long overdue, but excellent!
What's overdue? Robert Morse's appearance, me spoilering stuff, or me clapping and barking like a seal?
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 26, 2023, 01:25:20 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Sep 26, 2023, 12:59:09 PMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 25, 2023, 08:28:24 PMAlso...
Spoiler
Robert Morse shows up.
And he asks for... ICE CREAM! 'Cos he says "ice cream" in Alien 3!
*barks and claps like a seal*
Man, I gotta start spoilering this shit.
EDIT: So I did!
Long overdue, but excellent!
What's overdue? Robert Morse's appearance, me spoilering stuff, or me clapping and barking like a seal?
The character's return, in any form.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 25, 2023, 08:28:24 PMAlso...
Spoiler
Robert Morse shows up.
And he asks for... ICE CREAM! 'Cos he says "ice cream" in Alien 3!
Having him appear is nice (when they're scrapping the bottom of the barrel to movie related characters, can't believe it took them this long to use him), but I would be embraced to even mention that cause it sounds so cringe.
*barks and claps like a seal*
Man, I gotta start spoilering this shit.
EDIT: So I did!
So I've given this thing a good skim read, and I feel I can offer some solid observations.
Spoiler
There is not nearly enough Bishop in this Bishop novel! We don't even pick up Bishop's story until we're sixty-nine (dudes!) pages into the book. Much of the book is spent with original characters, all of which are boring as balls.
One such character is a Vietnamese smuggler. Napper spent some "extraordinary" time in Hanoi and takes every opportunity to rhapsodize about how smegging fantastic it is.
More Ovomorphs from nowhere! Seriously, where are all these f**king things coming from, and how is it that everyone and their dog has one? Seriously, the USM must have been utterly useless if cloning Ripley was their only option. If recent media is anything to go by, throwing a rock would result in that rock hitting an Ovomorph.
The Apone familial connection is pointless and was clearly inserted as fanbait. It comes up a couple of times for some heartstring-tugging, but that's it.
Bitty, inconsistent chapter size; at least one chapter is only a page long. Moreover, three consecutive chapters cover a single event involving a single character.
Michael Bishop is your typical ranting lunatic, the type seen in all cheap tie-in fiction. He ends up spraying himself with Queen pheromones and trying to control the Xenomorphs - and OF COURSE ends up cocooned. Blue Marsalis, he is not. f**k, he isn't even Spears.
Aussie Vegemite is the only tasty option on a table otherwise stocked with tasteless American pap. Groan.
As aforementioned, Michael Bishop dies when the ship upon which he is cocooned is scuttled by Apone's Marines. This does not jive with what we are told in the Wey-Yu Report, which mentioned that he died in the 2190s after an operation on his synapses went wrong, and that failing to obtain a viable Xenomorph specimen was his greatest professional regret. Guess the report lies, 'cos he found some eggs from somewhere else; see above. Well, either that, or established canon is being disregarded entirely. You be the judge.
It's okay, though - an ass-pull of the epilogue variety has Michael unlock the secret of virtual consciousness and transmit himself to a W-Y base on Torin Prime. I'm sure we are never going to see any mention of this again.
And the message? Bishop is a good person and a true Marine!
Yeah, thanks for telling us what we already know.
And Rachel Caine did it better, in a 22-page short story that is way more thrilling and touching than this 488-page novel.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 27, 2023, 06:33:40 PMSo I've given this thing a good skim read, and I feel I can offer some solid observations.
Ouch. Yeah, it's getting harder and harder to be an Alien EU fan. Nicely put, though.
Big Oof but also exactly what I've come to expect from the Titan stuff.
QuoteSpoiler
Aussie Vegemite is the only tasty option on a table otherwise stocked with tasteless American pap. Groan.
As an Australian this is the dumbest thing I've read all week. And it's been a long week.
Probably true though.
Astonishing waste of potential.
It sounds like everything I expected it to be.
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2023, 10:52:16 PMProbably true though.
I dunno. I do rate Vegemite above Marmite, but some of that American slop is kinda good, better than yeasty toast at least. They deep fry most of it.
I would demand to see the entire context of this passage to redeem the standing of Vegemite, but I can't say I'm that interested.
Fair enough on both counts.
I'm struggling to think of anything that would make Vegemite seem like a good alternative.
First y'all say you don't drink Fosters and now you don't eat Vegemite.
Aussie clichés taking a hit.
Nobody drinks Fosters, it's a gag they play on tourists like dropbears. But they do eat Vegemite, SiL's just fussy.
I'm not particularly fussy, I just don't like Vegemite. Unless it's added to a stew or something.
Everyone else I know likes it.
"Vegemite has a strong flavour. It is salty, slightly bitter, malty, and has an umami flavour similar to beef bouillon"
And people actually eat that? On purpose? I thought it was supposed to be something more like Nutella.
It's basically Marmite.
Only not.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 28, 2023, 09:08:02 PMIt's basically Marmite.
Only not.
Somebody said Marmite? Get the twigs ready!
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 28, 2023, 07:41:00 PM"Vegemite has a strong flavour. It is salty, slightly bitter, malty, and has an umami flavour similar to beef bouillon"
And people actually eat that? On purpose? I thought it was supposed to be something more like Nutella.
You're supposed to use as little of it as humanly possible, spread over a piece of toast liberally smothered in butter.
It's basically what David dropped on Planet 4 😂 Civilisation dying and recoiling in horror as Vegemite urns explode over them.
"Look on my works ye Vegemitey and despair".
Quote from: SiL on Sep 28, 2023, 09:49:20 PMYou're supposed to use as little of it as humanly possible
But I already do that. :-\
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Sep 29, 2023, 12:29:17 AM"Look on my works ye Vegemitey and despair".
Well played.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 28, 2023, 09:49:20 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Sep 28, 2023, 07:41:00 PM"Vegemite has a strong flavour. It is salty, slightly bitter, malty, and has an umami flavour similar to beef bouillon"
And people actually eat that? On purpose? I thought it was supposed to be something more like Nutella.
You're supposed to use as little of it as humanly possible, spread over a piece of toast liberally smothered in butter.
* scraped over a piece of toast.
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Sep 29, 2023, 12:29:17 AMIt's basically what David dropped on Planet 4 😂 Civilisation dying and recoiling in horror as Vegemite urns explode over them.
"Look on my works ye Vegemitey and despair".
No, that was Marmite. David created Vegemite by reverse-engineering it.
Quote from: SM on Sep 29, 2023, 07:46:01 AMQuote from: SiL on Sep 28, 2023, 09:49:20 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Sep 28, 2023, 07:41:00 PM"Vegemite has a strong flavour. It is salty, slightly bitter, malty, and has an umami flavour similar to beef bouillon"
And people actually eat that? On purpose? I thought it was supposed to be something more like Nutella.
You're supposed to use as little of it as humanly possible, spread over a piece of toast liberally smothered in butter.
* scraped over a piece of toast.
Kinda like how Bilbo feels?
"When [Su Wong] was young, she'd read a banned book called Animal Farm. It was a warning about allowing socialist ideology to fail, when leaders forgot their place as the vanguard of the proletariat, as the first among equals. At the end of the novel, the socialist leadership - the pigs - dressed like the capitalists - the humans. Eating their fine food, sitting in comfortable chairs, drinking their expensive liquors.
Well, Captain Zhang looked like a pig, sitting there in his expensive chair, sipping his whisky, reading his datapad."
OMG WRITING!
Yeah I gave up with this one two thirds in. Bishop just doesnt feel like Bishop and there's a lot of very very silly stuff happening.
Another miss from Titan sadly.
""Uuhhhhhhhhhhh." She threw her head back. "UUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.""
Sounds like everyone who's ever read this.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Oct 26, 2023, 11:30:22 AM"When [Su Wong] was young, she'd read a banned book called Animal Farm. It was a warning about allowing socialist ideology to fail, when leaders forgot their place as the vanguard of the proletariat, as the first among equals. At the end of the novel, the socialist leadership - the pigs - dressed like the capitalists - the humans. Eating their fine food, sitting in comfortable chairs, drinking their expensive liquors.
Well, Captain Zhang looked like a pig, sitting there in his expensive chair, sipping his whisky, reading his datapad."
OMG WRITING!
Wow, again, I know of multiple fan fictions that're better than this. Has Titan gotten cheap and don't want to hire more competent writers anymore?
Quote from: Still Collating... on Oct 26, 2023, 11:01:12 PMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Oct 26, 2023, 11:30:22 AM"When [Su Wong] was young, she'd read a banned book called Animal Farm. It was a warning about allowing socialist ideology to fail, when leaders forgot their place as the vanguard of the proletariat, as the first among equals. At the end of the novel, the socialist leadership - the pigs - dressed like the capitalists - the humans. Eating their fine food, sitting in comfortable chairs, drinking their expensive liquors.
Well, Captain Zhang looked like a pig, sitting there in his expensive chair, sipping his whisky, reading his datapad."
OMG WRITING!
Wow, again, I know of multiple fan fictions that're better than this. Has Titan gotten cheap and don't want to hire more competent writers anymore?
"Fan fiction" just about sums up this tripe. No - BAD fan fiction.
It's even more f**ked because I know for a fact that there's passionate people with mostly good taste who have at least some level of influence on the EU stuff, but I guess they don't bother with wasteful expenditure like Editors who clock in hours on story structure or consultants.
I think this one hurts a little more because it is a proper sequel to Alien 3 with known characters, ships and locations.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Oct 27, 2023, 11:32:45 AMI think this one hurts a little more because it is a proper sequel to Alien 3 with known characters, ships and locations.
Exactly. Yes,
Colony War is
beyond shit, but at least it didn't soil existing, beloved characters (Amanda Ripley is mentioned, but that's really the extent). This, on the other hand, drags Bishop and Morse through the mud.
Seriously, the Morse-and-ice cream thing... I can't believe they did that.
Having not subjected myself to the novel yet, I must say these comments have me roaring ;D
Anyone who liked the book or have good things to say?
I haven't read any Alien stuff since Infiltrator. I will inevitably get to this - but it won't be anytime soon.
Quote from: SM on Oct 28, 2023, 10:32:07 PMI haven't read any Alien stuff since Infiltrator. I will inevitably get to this - but it won't be anytime soon.
You should start with Colony War. I hear it's excellent.
I too have heard this and it is currently on top of my list.
Quote from: Wweyland on Oct 28, 2023, 01:12:16 PMAnyone who liked the book or have good things to say?
No.
Were they doing Apone next or did I hallucinate?
Quote from: Wweyland on Oct 29, 2023, 07:53:23 PMWere they doing Apone next or did I hallucinate?
His relatives are in this one.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2023, 08:05:35 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Oct 29, 2023, 07:53:23 PMWere they doing Apone next or did I hallucinate?
His relatives are in this one.
Specifically, his brother Marcel. Their mother also appears in a photograph.
She was chomping on a cigar in the photo right?
Quote from: SM on Oct 29, 2023, 10:50:38 PMShe was chomping on a cigar in the photo right?
Yup...It was handed to her as a trophy after she defeated a yautja and made it look into her eye. I think it's due to be explored further in Titan's upcoming novel 'Predator: Day on the Farm'
Awesome!
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 19, 2023, 01:24:26 PMQuoteBishop is pursued by Colonial Marines Captain Marcel Apone, commander of the Il Conde and younger brother of Master Sergeant Alexander Apone, one of the casualties of the doomed mission to LV-426. Also on his trail are the "Dog Catchers," commandos employed by Weyland-Yutani.
Who else might benefit from Bishop's intimate knowledge of the deadliest creatures in the galaxy?
THIS sounds like really dumb melodrama.
So who came up with this idea exactly?
How did they come up with this crap? Would be interesting to know, maybe.
Bishop story great, soap opera family connections, da dumb.
Exactly, well said, why are they trying to make Alien into a family soap opera with these recent novels?
I remember talking to Fox licensing about this years ago and how they don't have the luxury of doing novels and comics the way Star Wars can with familiar characters. There needs to be Aliens in the stories and most characters don't survive the film in which they first encounter the Aliens.
Titan have obviously gone - 'Watch us'.
They asked me to pitch my 'Book of Morse' idea for the 30th anniversary, but then developed an allergy to returning emails.
There's a new editor at Titan. Have you had anything to do with him yet?
Quote from: SM on Nov 01, 2023, 05:13:24 AMbut then developed an allergy to returning emails.
I am sworn to secrecy
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 01, 2023, 02:48:25 PMThere's a new editor at Titan. Have you had anything to do with him yet?
No. I pitched them in 2020. Followed it up, got told once that they hadn't forgotten about it while asking if I knew where they could find storyboards for Vincent Ward's script, followed up once or twice more before scrounging what was left of my dignity and moving on.
As you can see I have clearly moved on.
We also talked about an Encyclopedia idea that Steve T at Fox suggested before the mouse took over. That didn't go anywhere till they announced their Encyclopedia idea.
Quote from: SM on Nov 01, 2023, 05:13:24 AMI remember talking to Fox licensing about this years ago and how they don't have the luxury of doing novels and comics the way Star Wars can with familiar characters. There needs to be Aliens in the stories and most characters don't survive the film in which they first encounter the Aliens.
Titan have obviously gone - 'Watch us'.
They asked me to pitch my 'Book of Morse' idea for the 30th anniversary, but then developed an allergy to returning emails.
And you were right in warning them. Exactly, what some people have said, one of the few logical returning characters could've been Morse (or a short story in the anthologies), and he never got a book with him outrunning WY or the government or whoever for writing and publishing his novel or something etc.
Titan's new direction is really confusing...
Vasquez and Bishop are two of the more popular characters in arguably the most popular film. I wouldn't call it confusing that they'd go down that path. Misguided perhaps - though I've not read either book so can't really judge.
Morse would be a better subject, but harder to market outside of Alien 3 fans.
Does This book confirms that the android bishop is Breedable
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 14, 2023, 04:46:25 PMDoes This book confirms that the android bishop is Breedable
No.
Also what the f**k.
Darn
Sorry you're so upset but seriously why are you asking if the android is breedable.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 14, 2023, 08:44:34 PMSorry you're so upset but seriously why are you asking if the android is breedable.
:laugh:
I think he means facehugged. Or, at least, I hope he does.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 14, 2023, 08:44:34 PMSorry you're so upset but seriously why are you asking if the android is breedable.
For Reasons :)
Did the book at least confirmed that he is edible
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 14, 2023, 09:14:49 PMQuote from: SiL on Nov 14, 2023, 08:44:34 PMSorry you're so upset but seriously why are you asking if the android is breedable.
:laugh:
I think he means facehugged. Or, at least, I hope he does.
No apparently we're in some kink shit now.
He may be synthetic but he also has a mighty schlong.
Every time bishop comes on the screen I say "Rizz"
tho David is W Rizz
So is he breedable or not? Now I'm dying to know.
(https://y.yarn.co/f350efd1-3b43-42f1-ac50-273a3ae19fbb_text.gif)
Quote from: SM on Nov 15, 2023, 01:59:44 AMhttps://y.yarn.co/f350efd1-3b43-42f1-ac50-273a3ae19fbb_text.gif
Why not continue stories with these 4?
Not marketable? I know there was Original Sin, but they could just ignore it or add a story on top of that.
Hell, throw in the events from Alien vs. Predator vs. Terminator as well.
Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 15, 2023, 08:56:50 AMWhy not continue stories with these 4?
Not marketable? I know there was Original Sin, but they could just ignore it or add a story on top of that.
I'd be up for that. It could also lead into Alan Decker's story from
Sea of Sorrows, and explain why he has psychic abilities. I always thought it was because he was directly descended from Ripley 8.
Quote from: SM on Nov 15, 2023, 01:59:44 AMhttps://y.yarn.co/f350efd1-3b43-42f1-ac50-273a3ae19fbb_text.gif
They prefer to be called Artificial person
Report for racism
Quote from: SM on Nov 15, 2023, 01:59:44 AMhttps://y.yarn.co/f350efd1-3b43-42f1-ac50-273a3ae19fbb_text.gif
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 14, 2023, 11:29:41 PMEvery time bishop comes on the screen I say "Rizz"
tho David is W Rizz
(https://www.drivencarguide.co.nz/media/e55fmfop/zoom-zoom-mazda.gif)
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 15, 2023, 08:59:34 PMQuote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 14, 2023, 11:29:41 PMEvery time bishop comes on the screen I say "Rizz"
tho David is W Rizz
https://www.drivencarguide.co.nz/media/e55fmfop/zoom-zoom-mazda.gif
But there is a sigma rizz May I tell you about them?
Quote from: SM on Nov 14, 2023, 11:17:47 PMHe may be synthetic but he also has a mighty schlong.
Canon, according to the CMTM's cutaway.
Updated Publisher's Summary as of 11/17/23:
A direct sequel to Aliens and Alien3―Weyland-Yutani, the Colonial Marines, and Bishop's creator all pursue the android for the deadly Xenomorph data contained in his brain. Written by T. R. Napper, author of the acclaimed 36 Streets, whose explosive work explores the artificial intelligence and what it is to be human.
"Do me a favor. Disconnect me. I could be reworked, but I'll never be top of the line again. I'd rather be nothing." Lance Bishop, model 341-B, on Fiorina 161
The USCSS Patna has been found. Although the synthetic Bishop asked to be shut down forever, his creator has other plans. Michael Bishop seeks the Xenomorph knowledge stored in the android's mind, and brings Bishop back to life—but for what reason? No longer an employee of the Weyland-Yutani Corporation, Michael tells his creation that he seeks to advance medical research for the benefit of humanity. Yet where does he get the resources needed to advance his work, and with whom do his new allegiances lie?
The USCSS Patna is pursued by Colonial Marines Captain Marcel Apone, commander of the Il Conde and younger brother of Master Sergeant Alexander Apone, one of the casualties of the doomed mission to LV-426. Also on his trail are the "Dog Catchers," commandos employed by Weyland-Yutani.
There are many who would profit from Lance Bishop's intimate knowledge of the deadliest creatures in the galaxy.
See, that actually sounds pretty decent (sans the Apone family connection).
Unfortunately, I have read this thread.
f**king "dog catchers"...
Biological Management Team. PR hack.
I know what "Dog Catchers" are in context, I have no clue what "Biological Management Team" are in context. It would just be a random concept until I read it.
Marketing doing their job well.
Wait, are they being called dog catchers in-universe now too?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 18, 2023, 01:11:35 PMSee, that actually sounds pretty decent (sans the Apone family connection).
Unfortunately, I have read this thread.
Woah, woah,
woah. I didn't even
get to the hurt-comfort dynamic between Karri and her comrade Sara Ransome. "I'm your sister. Come here. I'm your sister," the other Marine simpers after hearing Karri's tale of "UUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH". They hug.
I'm sorry, but I have to give David Barnett some credit here - at least his writing flowed in places and his characters didn't say "UUUUHHHHHHHHHHH".
This f**king book is worse than Colony War.
And I NEVER thought I would ever be saying that.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Nov 19, 2023, 09:56:19 AMThis f**king book is worse than Colony War.
You leave Colony War out of this! >:(
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Nov 19, 2023, 09:56:19 AMQuote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 18, 2023, 01:11:35 PMSee, that actually sounds pretty decent (sans the Apone family connection).
Unfortunately, I have read this thread.
Woah, woah, woah. I didn't even get to the hurt-comfort dynamic between Karri and her comrade Sara Ransome. "I'm your sister. Come here. I'm your sister," the other Marine simpers after hearing Karri's tale of "UUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH". They hug.
I'm sorry, but I have to give David Barnett some credit here - at least his writing flowed in places and his characters didn't say "UUUUHHHHHHHHHHH".
This f**king book is worse than Colony War.
And I NEVER thought I would ever be saying that.
Wait that's the actual line? UUUUHHHHHHHHHHH
Quote from: SiL on Nov 19, 2023, 10:32:14 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Nov 19, 2023, 09:56:19 AMQuote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 18, 2023, 01:11:35 PMSee, that actually sounds pretty decent (sans the Apone family connection).
Unfortunately, I have read this thread.
Woah, woah, woah. I didn't even get to the hurt-comfort dynamic between Karri and her comrade Sara Ransome. "I'm your sister. Come here. I'm your sister," the other Marine simpers after hearing Karri's tale of "UUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH". They hug.
I'm sorry, but I have to give David Barnett some credit here - at least his writing flowed in places and his characters didn't say "UUUUHHHHHHHHHHH".
This f**king book is worse than Colony War.
And I NEVER thought I would ever be saying that.
Wait that's the actual line? UUUUHHHHHHHHHHH
Well, first it's "Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh", then it's "UUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHH".
Also, Marcel Apone has "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh".
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Nov 19, 2023, 09:56:19 AMQuote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 18, 2023, 01:11:35 PMSee, that actually sounds pretty decent (sans the Apone family connection).
Unfortunately, I have read this thread.
Woah, woah, woah. I didn't even get to the hurt-comfort dynamic between Karri and her comrade Sara Ransome. "I'm your sister. Come here. I'm your sister," the other Marine simpers after hearing Karri's tale of "UUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH". They hug.
I'm sorry, but I have to give David Barnett some credit here - at least his writing flowed in places and his characters didn't say "UUUUHHHHHHHHHHH".
This f**king book is worse than Colony War.
And I NEVER thought I would ever be saying that.
Well, now I might just actually read this to see if it's worse than Colony War for me as well. It's like these recent novels are racing for that title.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 19, 2023, 02:58:39 AMWait, are they being called dog catchers in-universe now too?
This is my beef.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Nov 19, 2023, 12:43:07 PMQuote from: SiL on Nov 19, 2023, 10:32:14 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Nov 19, 2023, 09:56:19 AMQuote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 18, 2023, 01:11:35 PMSee, that actually sounds pretty decent (sans the Apone family connection).
Unfortunately, I have read this thread.
Woah, woah, woah. I didn't even get to the hurt-comfort dynamic between Karri and her comrade Sara Ransome. "I'm your sister. Come here. I'm your sister," the other Marine simpers after hearing Karri's tale of "UUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH". They hug.
I'm sorry, but I have to give David Barnett some credit here - at least his writing flowed in places and his characters didn't say "UUUUHHHHHHHHHHH".
This f**king book is worse than Colony War.
And I NEVER thought I would ever be saying that.
Wait that's the actual line? UUUUHHHHHHHHHHH
Well, first it's "Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh", then it's "UUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHH".
Also, Marcel Apone has "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh".
Is the whole line "Ahhhhhhhh absolutely bad assess! As my brother would say. He was a sergeant who got killed by the Xenomorphs"?
Quote from: SM on Nov 19, 2023, 10:25:52 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 19, 2023, 02:58:39 AMWait, are they being called dog catchers in-universe now too?
This is my beef.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Nov 19, 2023, 12:43:07 PMQuote from: SiL on Nov 19, 2023, 10:32:14 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Nov 19, 2023, 09:56:19 AMQuote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 18, 2023, 01:11:35 PMSee, that actually sounds pretty decent (sans the Apone family connection).
Unfortunately, I have read this thread.
Woah, woah, woah. I didn't even get to the hurt-comfort dynamic between Karri and her comrade Sara Ransome. "I'm your sister. Come here. I'm your sister," the other Marine simpers after hearing Karri's tale of "UUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH". They hug.
I'm sorry, but I have to give David Barnett some credit here - at least his writing flowed in places and his characters didn't say "UUUUHHHHHHHHHHH".
This f**king book is worse than Colony War.
And I NEVER thought I would ever be saying that.
Wait that's the actual line? UUUUHHHHHHHHHHH
Well, first it's "Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh", then it's "UUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHH".
Also, Marcel Apone has "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh".
Is the whole line "Ahhhhhhhh absolutely bad assess! As my brother would say. He was a sergeant who got killed by the Xenomorphs"?
No.
Shame.
@Slutty Badger has made this one of the most entertaining threads currently active. I hope they venture out into other boards and funpost some more.
Just with less Colony War-hate though. >:(
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 20, 2023, 04:27:56 PMJust with less Colony War-hate though. >:(
Colony War sux, the skull rulez.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 20, 2023, 08:10:59 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 20, 2023, 04:27:56 PMJust with less Colony War-hate though. >:(
Colony War sux, the skull rulez.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/VkICFY01bWIeI/giphy.gif)
A little late to the party as been avoiding info on this book (like to go in blind) Just found out about the Apone connection wtf. Why does everything have to have Star Wars Episode one syndrome now where everyones extended family is connected to the events and have their own story
Because it was successful with Star Wars. Alien doesn't have the same dynamic - but they're sure as hell trying to make it.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 19, 2023, 02:58:39 AMWait, are they being called dog catchers in-universe now too?
I mean I'd be pretty okay with it as a colloquial nickname, I don't see the harm in it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 22, 2023, 12:29:15 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 19, 2023, 02:58:39 AMWait, are they being called dog catchers in-universe now too?
I mean I'd be pretty okay with it as a colloquial nickname, I don't see the harm in it.
Are facehuggers called facehuggers in-universe too?
Canonical term is 'bonce-clampers'.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 22, 2023, 12:29:15 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 19, 2023, 02:58:39 AMWait, are they being called dog catchers in-universe now too?
I mean I'd be pretty okay with it as a colloquial nickname, I don't see the harm in it.
I don't think the term is used in the book; "Weyland-Yutani commando" is used pretty consistently.
That's definitely what was being used with one end of things from 2013-2018, does that term originate with ACM or date further back?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 22, 2023, 12:36:50 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Nov 22, 2023, 12:29:15 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 19, 2023, 02:58:39 AMWait, are they being called dog catchers in-universe now too?
I mean I'd be pretty okay with it as a colloquial nickname, I don't see the harm in it.
Are facehuggers called facehuggers in-universe too?
Pretty sure they are.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 22, 2023, 05:43:19 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 22, 2023, 12:36:50 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Nov 22, 2023, 12:29:15 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 19, 2023, 02:58:39 AMWait, are they being called dog catchers in-universe now too?
I mean I'd be pretty okay with it as a colloquial nickname, I don't see the harm in it.
Are facehuggers called facehuggers in-universe too?
Pretty sure they are.
Captain Kylie calls them "facef**kers" in
Into Charybdis.
Off the top of my head I know the in-universe bestiary in AvP Extinction called them facehuggers, but I'm pretty sure the term has shown up elsewhere.
Just checked, the WY Report does too.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Nov 22, 2023, 06:49:17 PMQuote from: Xenomrph on Nov 22, 2023, 05:43:19 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 22, 2023, 12:36:50 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Nov 22, 2023, 12:29:15 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 19, 2023, 02:58:39 AMWait, are they being called dog catchers in-universe now too?
I mean I'd be pretty okay with it as a colloquial nickname, I don't see the harm in it.
Are facehuggers called facehuggers in-universe too?
Pretty sure they are.
Captain Kylie calls them "facef**kers" in Into Charybdis.
They call them Face-huggers in Alien: Infiltrator
Review is up.
https://www.grimdarkmagazine.com/review-aliens-bishop-by-t-r-napper/
Quote from: felix on Nov 24, 2023, 10:32:59 PMReview is up.
https://www.grimdarkmagazine.com/review-aliens-bishop-by-t-r-napper/
Reviewer is Australian, and the book said something good about Vegemite.
OF COURSE it's gonna be an eleven outta ten.
Interesting. While a good amount of us here have criticized the book's characteristics, I'm seeing a number of reviews giving great praise to the book. I don't remember if the recent lukewarm books had such a strange type of support.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Nov 26, 2023, 12:19:52 AMInteresting. While a good amount of us here have criticized the book's characteristics, I'm seeing a number of reviews giving great praise to the book. I don't remember if the recent lukewarm books had such a strange type of support.
No,
Colony War had a few oddly gushing reviews as well.
But back to Bishop, the author of the highlighted review says that a lot of the references went over his head, meaning that he's not even
that invested in the franchise.
Whereas we are!
Ethics in book journalism.
I declare Bishops Gate.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Nov 26, 2023, 09:52:21 AMNo, Colony War had a few oddly gushing reviews as well.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/OE6FE4GZF78nm/giphy.gif)
A preview of the first 9 chapters of the novel can be viewed on google books - select the digital version of the novel and click Search Inside.
Also a free audiobook sample available at audioeditions.com
Just got this in the mail. Fingers crossed for a good read...
Let us know your thoughts when you're done with it...
I will say that, regardless of the quality of the book, I like that the name Michael Bishop (from a freaking trading card set) and "341-B" (from the Kenner toy line!) have become accepted parts of the canon.
IIRC, he was identified as 341-B in the Alien 3 TC on Andrews' computer.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 05, 2023, 05:57:20 AMIIRC, he was identified as 341-B in the Alien 3 TC on Andrews' computer.
Oops you're right, my bad.
This has been released today in the UK in hardback but doesn't seem to be released on kindle until exactly a year from today, can that be right?!
Same in Australia.
I'll probably get a Kindle version of the book for review, and then a hardcover.
So does Bishop actually lose an arm while grabbing an Alien tail?
(Great Cover otherwise)
Quote from: Wweyland on Dec 09, 2023, 09:47:50 AMSo does Bishop actually lose an arm while grabbing an Alien tail?
No.
Loads of Alien novels (and comics too for that matter) have had covers that bear no relation to things that actually happen in them.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 09, 2023, 01:02:35 PMLoads of Alien novels (and comics too for that matter) have had covers that bear no relation to things that actually happen in them.
Yeah. Think Inferno's Fall was the only recent cover to actually reflect what happens within.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 09, 2023, 01:02:35 PMLoads of Alien novels (and comics too for that matter) have had covers that bear no relation to things that actually happen in them.
I seem to recall that the covers for 'Aliens: Kidnapped' showed an adult Alien despite there being no adult Aliens in the story whatsoever.
So in what year does this book take place?
Quote from: Nukiemorph on Dec 10, 2023, 10:39:04 PMSo in what year does this book take place?
I've been through it and I don't think it's ever stated, so given that Bishop is rebuilt near Fiorina 161 and the early events of the Australia Wars are presented as fairly recent, I assume it's 2179.
The what wars
(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:750/format:webp/0*JNTKS3ytbPYjnm_C.jpg)
That's the emu wars.
I'm aware ;)
I know.
I'm mostly marveling at the inanity of "the Australia wars" and wills like some actual details if they exist
Quote from: SiL on Dec 11, 2023, 01:14:43 PMI know.
I'm mostly marveling at the inanity of "the Australia wars" and wills like some actual details if they exist
Colonial Marines Operations Manual.
You're welcome.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 11, 2023, 11:55:41 AMThat's the emu wars.
Yeah this is the Emu Wars II, only this time the emus have nuclear weapons and they win even more handily than the first time.
Xemus.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Dec 11, 2023, 01:34:18 PMQuote from: SiL on Dec 11, 2023, 01:14:43 PMI know.
I'm mostly marveling at the inanity of "the Australia wars" and wills like some actual details if they exist
Colonial Marines Operations Manual.
You're welcome.
I don't have that.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 11, 2023, 07:58:43 PMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Dec 11, 2023, 01:34:18 PMQuote from: SiL on Dec 11, 2023, 01:14:43 PMI know.
I'm mostly marveling at the inanity of "the Australia wars" and wills like some actual details if they exist
Colonial Marines Operations Manual.
You're welcome.
I don't have that.
Mmkay. There
is a solution!
In 2182, Australia suffered a massive food shortage, and led an uprising against the Three World Empire that ended with a nuclear strike on Canberra.
https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Australia#History
Is that it?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 11, 2023, 08:22:17 PMIn 2182, Australia suffered a massive food shortage, and led an uprising against the Three World Empire that ended with a nuclear strike on Canberra.
https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Australia#History
Is that it?
Nuking Canberra to end an uprising LMFAO.
Thank you for providing an actual response.
Is the RPG supposed to be campy like RoboCop or Starship Troopers?
It was at that point that the final nail in 'I'm not sure they're taking this as seriously as they perhaps should' was hammered home.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 11, 2023, 08:22:17 PMIn 2182, Australia suffered a massive food shortage, and led an uprising against the Three World Empire that ended with a nuclear strike on Canberra.
https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Australia#History
Is that it?
Yup. It actually started in 2172 and ended a decade later (meaning it was going on during
Aliens).
I actually wrote the Australia Wars article! Here you go: https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Australia_Wars?so=search
Could you not have just linked that when I said I didn't have the book ... ?
From interviews with Clara and Gaska, the RPG put that in as just a tongue and cheek reference to the event mentioned in the novel Alien Nightmare Asylum by Steve Perry. Have no idea why the recent novels are mentioning it so much...
The article is an abridged version, the RPG fleshes out the events in more detail and it doesn't seem that ridiculous when the whole thing is read. Besides, it's not like the USA has never used 2 nukes on another country... With crazy times and batshit leaders, I can totally see that happening.
I think the writer of Bishop is Australian. (And isn't Cara for that matter?)
Nuking the country makes sense, it's just the notion that anybody would give a shit if Canberra got nuked is hilarious to an Australian.
It's what happens when you try and cram in too much 'old lore' in without any real quality control.
It's what happens when your knowledge of Australia extends to "the capital city is Canberra and that's where parliament meets".
Anyway, we digress.
Also that.
Quote from: SM on Dec 11, 2023, 09:26:37 PMIs was at that point that the final nail in 'I'm not sure they're taking this as seriously as they perhaps should' was hammmered home.
What's the Alien series' equivalent of "it's a kids movie about space wizards!" that filthy Star Wars casuals like to spout so often? I'd imagine getting bombarded with that anytime we expect it to be stone-cold grimdark.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 11, 2023, 10:45:17 PMCould you not have just linked that when I said I didn't have the book ... ?
You seem to be a magnet for cryptic answers lately.
I don't expect 'stone-cold grimdark' especially. At a base level I do expect 'not shit'.
Quote from: SM on Dec 11, 2023, 11:45:26 PMIt's what happens when you try and cram in too much 'old lore' in without any real quality control.
Canberra aside (apparently), I'm not seeing the problem with it
Also when reading the RPG, "lack of quality control" is pretty far from most people's minds.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 12, 2023, 01:53:34 AMQuote from: SM on Dec 11, 2023, 11:45:26 PMIt's what happens when you try and cram in too much 'old lore' in without any real quality control.
Canberra aside (apparently), I'm not seeing the problem with it
Also when reading the RPG, "lack of quality control" is pretty far from most people's minds.
What's wrong with Canberra anyway?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 12, 2023, 01:57:25 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Dec 12, 2023, 01:53:34 AMQuote from: SM on Dec 11, 2023, 11:45:26 PMIt's what happens when you try and cram in too much 'old lore' in without any real quality control.
Canberra aside (apparently), I'm not seeing the problem with it
Also when reading the RPG, "lack of quality control" is pretty far from most people's minds.
What's wrong with Canberra anyway?
Apparently it's a silly place to nuke if you want meaningful change, or that's what I'm inferring from SiL's posts. I'm sure he could elaborate, I'm purely speaking from ignorance here.
It would be like writing a story where a foreign power brings the US to its knees by nuking the White House. It's a bit silly.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 12, 2023, 01:57:25 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Dec 12, 2023, 01:53:34 AMQuote from: SM on Dec 11, 2023, 11:45:26 PMIt's what happens when you try and cram in too much 'old lore' in without any real quality control.
Canberra aside (apparently), I'm not seeing the problem with it
Also when reading the RPG, "lack of quality control" is pretty far from most people's minds.
What's wrong with Canberra anyway?
It's a soulless country town in a sheep paddock that's full of public servants.
I say this as a soulless public servant.
Quote from: SM on Dec 12, 2023, 03:35:14 AMI say this as a soulless public servant.
Did they issue you a Pursuit Special?
Nah I mainly hang out with March Hare and Big Bopper.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 11, 2023, 10:45:17 PMCould you not have just linked that when I said I didn't have the book ... ?
I could have. But then how would you learn? ;D
Seriously though, you should get the CMOM. It's pretty cool. Also, a lot of this novel will make more sense.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Dec 12, 2023, 09:01:40 AMI could have. But then how would you learn? ;D
Given my financial situation and the current cost of living crisis sweeping the country, not by spending money I don't have on things I don't strictly need :-\
Quote from: SiL on Dec 12, 2023, 09:04:03 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Dec 12, 2023, 09:01:40 AMI could have. But then how would you learn? ;D
Given my financial situation and the current cost of living crisis sweeping the country, not by spending money I don't have on things I don't strictly need :-\
That's a shame. I know what you mean, though. It's the same in the UK.
#3WEproblems
Just finished reading and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it was! IMO this was an excellent follow up to Alien 3 and the familial connection to Apone didn't feel forced. The author nailed the dialogue with Bishop/Michael Bishop where I could hear Lance Hennrickson's voice in my head with every line!
Spoiler
The same could be said about Morse and it was fun seeing him return as well as an explanation for how he got "Space Beast" out. I also liked how Michael Bishop was human until the very end which is a nice nod to endless fandom debate on whether he's an android or not.
Overall really fun read and I genuinely look forward to re-reading it! 9.5/10!
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Dec 12, 2023, 01:37:07 PMJust finished reading and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it was! IMO this was an excellent follow up to Alien 3 and the familial connection to Apone didn't feel forced. The author nailed the dialogue with Bishop/Michael Bishop where I could hear Lance Hennrickson's voice in my head with every line!
Spoiler
The same could be said about Morse and it was fun seeing him return as well as an explanation for how he got "Space Beast" out. I also liked how Michael Bishop was human until the very end which is a nice nod to endless fandom debate on whether he's an android or not.
Nice, hope I'll like it too. It would feel good to fully enjoy New Titan book again. Book should arrive in few days so I'll know soon.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Dec 14, 2023, 06:25:09 AMQuote from: Xiggz456 on Dec 12, 2023, 01:37:07 PMJust finished reading and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it was! IMO this was an excellent follow up to Alien 3 and the familial connection to Apone didn't feel forced. The author nailed the dialogue with Bishop/Michael Bishop where I could hear Lance Hennrickson's voice in my head with every line!
Spoiler
The same could be said about Morse and it was fun seeing him return as well as an explanation for how he got "Space Beast" out. I also liked how Michael Bishop was human until the very end which is a nice nod to endless fandom debate on whether he's an android or not.
Nice, hope I'll like it too. It would feel good to fully enjoy New Titan book again. Book should arrive in few days so I'll know soon.
I found it to be leaps and bounds better than any of last years books. Great pacing, vivid descriptions and solid dialogue kept me glued to the story. In terms of chapter structure it reminded me of
Predator: South China Sea with short, quick chapters. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts once you read it.
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Dec 14, 2023, 11:58:04 AMQuote from: jacobo1122 on Dec 14, 2023, 06:25:09 AMQuote from: Xiggz456 on Dec 12, 2023, 01:37:07 PMJust finished reading and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it was! IMO this was an excellent follow up to Alien 3 and the familial connection to Apone didn't feel forced. The author nailed the dialogue with Bishop/Michael Bishop where I could hear Lance Hennrickson's voice in my head with every line!
Spoiler
The same could be said about Morse and it was fun seeing him return as well as an explanation for how he got "Space Beast" out. I also liked how Michael Bishop was human until the very end which is a nice nod to endless fandom debate on whether he's an android or not.
Nice, hope I'll like it too. It would feel good to fully enjoy New Titan book again. Book should arrive in few days so I'll know soon.
I found it to be leaps and bounds better than any of last years books.
Better than
Inferno's Fall? Snort.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Dec 14, 2023, 01:19:12 PMQuote from: Xiggz456 on Dec 14, 2023, 11:58:04 AMQuote from: jacobo1122 on Dec 14, 2023, 06:25:09 AMQuote from: Xiggz456 on Dec 12, 2023, 01:37:07 PMJust finished reading and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it was! IMO this was an excellent follow up to Alien 3 and the familial connection to Apone didn't feel forced. The author nailed the dialogue with Bishop/Michael Bishop where I could hear Lance Hennrickson's voice in my head with every line!
Spoiler
The same could be said about Morse and it was fun seeing him return as well as an explanation for how he got "Space Beast" out. I also liked how Michael Bishop was human until the very end which is a nice nod to endless fandom debate on whether he's an android or not.
Nice, hope I'll like it too. It would feel good to fully enjoy New Titan book again. Book should arrive in few days so I'll know soon.
I found it to be leaps and bounds better than any of last years books.
Better than Inferno's Fall? Snort.
Yeah, I also like Inferno's fall much. Its exception from latest Titan's publications. And it was based on original characters, places, and events, so Bishop already doesn't seems so interesting to me, but we'll see, maybe it will deliver and I won't mind bringing back known characters and adding their relatives, even if i don't like this trope.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Dec 14, 2023, 01:19:12 PMQuote from: Xiggz456 on Dec 14, 2023, 11:58:04 AMQuote from: jacobo1122 on Dec 14, 2023, 06:25:09 AMQuote from: Xiggz456 on Dec 12, 2023, 01:37:07 PMJust finished reading and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it was! IMO this was an excellent follow up to Alien 3 and the familial connection to Apone didn't feel forced. The author nailed the dialogue with Bishop/Michael Bishop where I could hear Lance Hennrickson's voice in my head with every line!
Spoiler
The same could be said about Morse and it was fun seeing him return as well as an explanation for how he got "Space Beast" out. I also liked how Michael Bishop was human until the very end which is a nice nod to endless fandom debate on whether he's an android or not.
Nice, hope I'll like it too. It would feel good to fully enjoy New Titan book again. Book should arrive in few days so I'll know soon.
I found it to be leaps and bounds better than any of last years books.
Better than Inferno's Fall? Snort.
Can't be better than Colony War.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Dec 14, 2023, 01:19:12 PMQuote from: Xiggz456 on Dec 14, 2023, 11:58:04 AMQuote from: jacobo1122 on Dec 14, 2023, 06:25:09 AMQuote from: Xiggz456 on Dec 12, 2023, 01:37:07 PMJust finished reading and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it was! IMO this was an excellent follow up to Alien 3 and the familial connection to Apone didn't feel forced. The author nailed the dialogue with Bishop/Michael Bishop where I could hear Lance Hennrickson's voice in my head with every line!
Spoiler
The same could be said about Morse and it was fun seeing him return as well as an explanation for how he got "Space Beast" out. I also liked how Michael Bishop was human until the very end which is a nice nod to endless fandom debate on whether he's an android or not.
Nice, hope I'll like it too. It would feel good to fully enjoy New Titan book again. Book should arrive in few days so I'll know soon.
I found it to be leaps and bounds better than any of last years books.
Better than Inferno's Fall? Snort.
Okay Rick and Snorty. Yes I do think it was better. While Infernos Fall was the best of last year's novels, it lacked good descriptions of the creatures and action sequences. And while I liked the new characters, the underutilization of Zula and Olivia Shipp was a disappointment IMO. But hey both books give us glimpses of the Australian War if you're into that.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 14, 2023, 04:12:09 PMCan't be better than Colony War.
No, nothing beats "Pugh, Pugh, McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub".
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Dec 14, 2023, 04:49:51 PMOkay Rick and Snorty. Yes I do think it was better. While Infernos Fall was the best of last year's novels, it lacked good descriptions of the creatures and action sequences. And while I liked the new characters, the underutilization of Zula and Olivia Shipp was a disappointment IMO. But hey both books give us glimpses of the Australian War if you're into that.
"Rick and Snorty". Love it! ;D
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Dec 14, 2023, 05:23:02 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Dec 14, 2023, 04:12:09 PMCan't be better than Colony War.
No, nothing beats "Pugh, Pugh, McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub".
Those names would sound right at home in Noah Hawley's show.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 14, 2023, 04:12:09 PMCan't be better than Colony War.
(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/icegif-2592.gif)
Does the novel ever make mention of Bishop's (the android) homeworld?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 15, 2023, 12:44:15 AMDoes the novel ever make mention of Bishop's (the android) homeworld?
Is Bishop an alien now too?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 16, 2023, 01:07:52 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Dec 15, 2023, 12:44:15 AMDoes the novel ever make mention of Bishop's (the android) homeworld?
Is Bishop an alien now too?
Nah I'm just curious if the book references Bishop's "canonical" homeworld (which comes from the Kenner toys). I think his homeworld is at least present on the galaxy map in the RPG.
Does a robot have a "homeworld" based on where it's made?
My mate wouldn't claim Germany as his home just because he was born there.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 16, 2023, 10:55:09 AMDoes a robot have a "homeworld" based on where it's made?
My mate wouldn't claim Germany as his home just because he was born there.
Homeworld generally means "where you were born", in sci-fi parlance.
He should be from radioactive wasteland of Canberra.
Just catching up on the thread and laughing at the prospect of nuking Canberra. I'm fairly certain no one in the rest of the country would notice.
Okay,I read it rather quickly,cause it was pretty solid read. It didn't blow me out of my socks or anything, but after few missteps and middling books from Titan, that was a good feeling to just mostly enjoying myself during a read.
I had worries at first,that it would end up like Vasquez novel, where the best part was about titular hero, and it ended after first third of the book and after that we got not very good story about other characters. But Bishop has much better construction. We're jumping between a few main and secondary characters for a whole book,and their storylines nicely entangle and come together at the satisfing finale. And I enjoyed following most of these protagonists. Only wasn't sure about Apone's brother,I don't feel that it was neccesary for him to be known character's relative It feeled a little forced. Also his constant pompous quotes could get annoying. But as for other known characters, I really enjoyed their inclusion. Bishop had interesting role with finding and understanding his feelings, although if someone doesn't like more human-like, emotional potrayal of androids, they might not like it, but since Bishop was first android that showed us their more human side,it seems appropiate to give him that kind of arc. Also seeing more of Michael Bishop was very interesting and fun. And there's one suprise known character, whose apperance gave me a lot of giggles.
Books had also a lot of little easter eggs and attention to details that should satify EU enjoyers. I really liked usage of acid blood on a spaceship fight, or Xenos' carapace actually deflecting smaller calliber bullets. But It also had a couple of nitpicks,for example we get nice Manumala Noxhydria name for facehuggers, but adult Aliens are just called Xenomorphs throghout whole book. Would it be that hard to just add that nice little XX121 to it? :) Also I felt that Napper was overusing onomatopoeias in his descriptions and dialogues.
Overall it was definetly a better read than I was expecting. Not top tier neccesarly, but just a solid fun.
Will be mighty interested in the podcast for this one. Hopefully some contrasting opinions.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Dec 30, 2023, 07:14:12 PMOkay,I read it rather quickly,cause it was pretty solid read. It didn't blow me out of my socks or anything, but after few missteps and middling books from Titan, that was a good feeling to just mostly enjoying myself during a read.
I had worries at first,that it would end up like Vasquez novel, where the best part was about titular hero, and it ended after first third of the book and after that we got not very good story about other characters. But Bishop has much better construction. We're jumping between a few main and secondary characters for a whole book,and their storylines nicely entangle and come together at the satisfing finale. And I enjoyed following most of these protagonists. Only wasn't sure about Apone's brother,I don't feel that it was neccesary for him to be known character's relative It feeled a little forced. Also his constant pompous quotes could get annoying. But as for other known characters, I really enjoyed their inclusion. Bishop had interesting role with finding and understanding his feelings, although if someone doesn't like more human-like, emotional potrayal of androids, they might not like it, but since Bishop was first android that showed us their more human side,it seems appropiate to give him that kind of arc. Also seeing more of Michael Bishop was very interesting and fun. And there's one suprise known character, whose apperance gave me a lot of giggles.
Books had also a lot of little easter eggs and attention to details that should satify EU enjoyers. I really liked usage of acid blood on a spaceship fight, or Xenos' carapace actually deflecting smaller calliber bullets. But It also had a couple of nitpicks,for example we get nice Manumala Noxhydria name for facehuggers, but adult Aliens are just called Xenomorphs throghout whole book. Would it be that hard to just add that nice little XX121 to it? :) Also I felt that Napper was overusing onomatopoeias in his descriptions and dialogues.
Overall it was definetly a better read than I was expecting. Not top tier neccesarly, but just a solid fun.
I caved and bought this on kindle with a bunch of Amazon credits thanks to your review.
Is it both cool and good?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 01, 2024, 12:52:24 AMIs it both cool and good?
I have no idea, I haven't read it yet.
I'm about two thirds of the way through a proper read of this thing and, quite frankly, my criticisms still stand.
Granted, the Bishop sequences are pretty cool. There're some interesting conversations and it's pretty trippy to imagine Lance Henriksen talking to himself - yes, Fassbender did it as well, but with two different accents; it's established in A3 that both Bishop and Michael speak identically.
Sadly, when Bishop isn't onscreen, this book TANKS. Too much time is spent with needless secondary characters. One of them, Vietnamese smuggler Xuan Nguyen, seems to be a mouthpiece for Napper's undying luuuuurve for Hanoi. If anyone even coughs or sniffs, it reminds her of.... guess where? Why the f**k did she even leave? Yes, I know that the UPP moves people around regardless of how they feel, but a brief acknowledgment would have been nice.
The Colonial Marine characters are the same ol' archetypes we've seen a bazillion times before, although I do like the characterization of Marcel Apone, which is a rarity for pointless shoehorned character relations. He's pretty much how I would imagine Al Apone's brother to be like.
Also, the prose is clunky and there's a serious overreliance on onomatopoeia.
So, overall, not great.
So my kindle says I'm 15% of the way into the book.
Spoiler
What year does this book take place? I'm just trying to gauge how long after Alien3 we're talking here.
The Marines seem to know more about the Aliens than I expected, up to having specialized gear to counter them and knowing their full life cycle and flinging around colloquialisms like "facehugger" and "chestburster". It kind of feels weird, like they know more than they should.
Lee finds two (dead?) facehuggers in a lab when she goes to turn the artificial gravity back on, does the book address where they came from?
Apone's brother is... fine. Like, he's got solid characterization, and he's distinct from his brother, but there was no need for him to be a blood relative of a movie character
So far the book is fine. The action is neat, and I'm invested enough to keep going.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 05, 2024, 05:09:08 AMSo my kindle says I'm 15% of the way into the book.
Spoiler
What year does this book take place? I'm just trying to gauge how long after Alien3 we're talking here.
The Marines seem to know more about the Aliens than I expected, up to having specialized gear to counter them and knowing their full life cycle and flinging around colloquialisms like "facehugger" and "chestburster". It kind of feels weird, like they know more than they should.
Lee finds two (dead?) facehuggers in a lab when she goes to turn the artificial gravity back on, does the book address where they came from?
Apone's brother is... fine. Like, he's got solid characterization, and he's distinct from his brother, but there was no need for him to be a blood relative of a movie character
So far the book is fine. The action is neat, and I'm invested enough to keep going.
We never find out when exactly this book takes place; I merely assume that it's 2179, given that the
Xinjiang is near Fury 161.
Neither do we find out from whence the Ovomorphs came. But that's par for the course at this point. The more glaring issue for me is how Apone's barmy army are equipped with better gear than an actual dedicated Xeno-fighting unit (the Midnighters), and how they have full knowledge of the species. The setup feels really thrown together, and that hobbles it for me.
This book was a hot mess. Everyone so suddenly being aware of the xeno so soon after Alien 3 really took me out of it, not to mention where they all came from.
Makes you wonder why Bishop is so valuable, especially as Michael has his own specimens.
Ripley may as well have just given the company the Alien if this is what it directly leads to.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 05, 2024, 11:27:38 AMThis book was a hot mess. Everyone so suddenly being aware of the xeno so soon after Alien 3 really took me out of it, not to mention where they all came from.
Makes you wonder why Bishop is so valuable, especially as Michael has his own specimens.
Ripley may as well have just given the company the Alien if this is what it directly leads to.
Also, this.
Yeah, but that's the bigger problem with whole EU getting more and more stories. Even in great ones,like Cold Forge, where it also took place shortly after Aliens,and they already had lab full of Xenos. I just ignore that kind of things when they fit a story. Also universe of Alien is one place where it is possible to have people in one part of cosmos knowing more or less than people in the other,considering how hard communication is and how long traveling through space takes. Although I admit that wanting access to Bishop's data is rather weak motivation when you already have live specimens. Although it may be because he enconutered a Queen. But again, at this point in the EU there shouldn't be any need for studying Xenomorphs honestly :p And as for marines in the book having proper anti-xeno gear, well, they only thought they had, it didn't help them much in the end.
That was honestly my only gripe with the Cold Forge. As excellent as it is, it never made sense to me setting it in 2179 as it kind of makes The Company's quest to secure Ripley rather pointless in some respects if they already have eggs from another source.
Bishop I think is open to more criticism than other Titan books because this particular story is so closely tied to the films. Again, it undermines Ripley's sacrifice completely and makes the entire subplot with the company in Alien 3 largely redundant. I'd have preferred this book to be more of a character study and espionage thriller rather than another Aliens clone.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 05, 2024, 04:11:14 PMI'd have preferred this book to be more of a character study and espionage thriller rather than another Aliens clone.
Frankly I'd have been extremely okay with the book containing no Aliens whatsoever.
I wonder if there was some kind of licensor/studio mandate necessitating their inclusion.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 05, 2024, 04:11:14 PMThat was honestly my only gripe with the Cold Forge. As excellent as it is, it never made sense to me setting it in 2179 as it kind of makes The Company's quest to secure Ripley rather pointless in some respects if they already have eggs from another source.
Bishop I think is open to more criticism than other Titan books because this particular story is so closely tied to the films. Again, it undermines Ripley's sacrifice completely and makes the entire subplot with the company in Alien 3 largely redundant. I'd have preferred this book to be more of a character study and espionage thriller rather than another Aliens clone.
Back when I was working with Fox the approach we took was 'the Company is huge and very siloed'. Millions of employees and thousands of people like Burke not knowing what each are up to. It allowed stories to be told without contradicting the films.
That said, and without having read this book, I agree that it can get dumb if the authors aren't properly paying attention.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 05, 2024, 04:11:14 PMThat was honestly my only gripe with the Cold Forge. As excellent as it is, it never made sense to me setting it in 2179 as it kind of makes The Company's quest to secure Ripley rather pointless in some respects if they already have eggs from another source.
Bishop I think is open to more criticism than other Titan books because this particular story is so closely tied to the films. Again, it undermines Ripley's sacrifice completely and makes the entire subplot with the company in Alien 3 largely redundant. I'd have preferred this book to be more of a character study and espionage thriller rather than another Aliens clone.
I don't mind Ripley's sacrifice being unimportant,it fits this grimm universe. Also I like the idea of Aliens being this overgrowing cosmic force that is slowly infecting whole life, and that fits nicely into that idea; no matter how mamy Aliens you destroy,there is always more of them in zimę dark corners of space and there are always people ready to try to exploit them, only helping them to spread instead.
And I agree that Bishop could be something more interesting, but I wouldn't call it Aliens clone. It's more of a chase story with few plotlines nicely overlaping each other with proper Aliens action only at the end. For me it was solid read,even if rather simple.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 05, 2024, 07:06:38 PMQuote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 05, 2024, 04:11:14 PMI'd have preferred this book to be more of a character study and espionage thriller rather than another Aliens clone.
Frankly I'd have been extremely okay with the book containing no Aliens whatsoever.
I wonder if there was some kind of licensor/studio mandate necessitating their inclusion.
I mean, there were two attempts at writing a book without Aliens with Covenant Origins,wchich I haven't read yet, and kinda in Inferno's fall, so It's not like they are completely against this idea.I think that more often than not, adding Aliens is already on writers' minds. Maybe because of lack of idea on what to tell a story about without it, or just because It's to tempting to write about such an iconic monster.
It works for me because in The Cold Forge because... of compartmentalisation, reinforced by the theme of the entire state of the station being compartmentalised projects the right hand not knowing what the left one does, and they all get wiped out, it in no way contradicts the larger narrative.
Michael seeing the infant Queen tear through Ripley sensing death, and Bishop being pierced by the prior Queen, exchanging memory- that should have been their only inclusion here.
Cold Forge also gets away with it to a large degree simply because it's f**king awesome. I can live with W-Y pulling a whole batch of eggs out of their collective arse because at the end of the day the book's so good I can overlook my reservations about that one issue.
See also: Ripley's relative being in Isolation.
If either of those had sucked the elephant in the room would've been much harder to swallow.
It also gets away with it because it never even remotely touches on where the eggs came from.
I think Alex White has said they came from LV-426, so it was fortunate they left them out.
Spoiler
The scene in which Michael Bishop spritzes on some Queen pheromone and promptly gets jumped by a bunch of Xenos is easily the one of the (unintentionally) funniest things I have ever read. Ever!
That doesn't sound like a spoiler at all.
I'm hoping it's a piss take.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 06, 2024, 10:33:34 PMI'm hoping it's a piss take.
It felt like one.
Could you then use spoiler tags in the future? What the f**k?
Quote from: SiL on Jan 07, 2024, 10:02:42 AMCould you then use spoiler tags in the future? What the f**k?
Relax, it's not like it's the biggest event in the book. That would be
Spoiler
Michael Bishop somehow becoming a virtual entity in the epilogue.
You've spoiled a setup and payoff that seems like it might have been nice to have the chance to experience, even if it is ridiculous, but f**k everyone else I guess.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 07, 2024, 10:28:32 AMYou've spoiled a setup and payoff that seems like it might have been nice to have the chance to experience, even if it is ridiculous, but f**k everyone else I guess.
I've spoilered it. Now go have a coffee and calm down.
Less of the attitude, please, Badger. And please ensure you're spoiler any spoiler, regardless of your feelings towards it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2024, 11:27:27 AMLess of the attitude, please, Badger. And please ensure you're spoiler any spoiler, regardless of your feelings towards it.
Absolutely.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Jan 07, 2024, 11:33:12 AMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2024, 11:27:27 AMLess of the attitude, please, Badger. And please ensure you're spoiler any spoiler, regardless of your feelings towards it.
Absolutely.
Is it as good as Colony War?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 07, 2024, 11:42:03 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Jan 07, 2024, 11:33:12 AMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2024, 11:27:27 AMLess of the attitude, please, Badger. And please ensure you're spoiler any spoiler, regardless of your feelings towards it.
Absolutely.
Is it as good as Colony War?
Oho, nothing's as good as
Colony War! Love that thing.
Okay, so I'm a little bit further into the book, I think something like 26%.
Spoiler
Does the book bother reconciling its own premise (Michael Bishop recovering Alien data from trashed-Bishop) with the Colonial Marines Technical Manual's last chapter where WY had a full download of Bishop post-Alien3 and that's where the bulk of their Alien knowledge came from?
Like, does the book address how Michael Bishop came into possession of Bishop's remains? Did he just... take them from Fury 161 when all the WY people he was with weren't paying attention? What's the chain of custody here?
If WY did download Bishop per the CMTM, does Michael know that? If WY could do it, why can't he?
Not to mention I'm not sure why Michael cares about that knowledge when he's got literal honest to god bona-fide facehuggers in his labs, which he got from.... who knows where.
I don't know how thrilled I am with the idea of Michael Bishop building Bishop a new body that looks different from his old body. Like, I mean, if it's meant to be Lance Henriksen as he looked in his early 30s or something then I guess that's okay, I dunno. But if it's a totally different guy, I don't like it.
Like, on paper, a book about Michael Bishop and Bishop's fate after Alien3 and the relationship between the two is a hell of a hook. It's just the way it's playing out has me raising my eyebrows.
Finished this thing a couple of days ago. Can't wait to never, ever read it again.
Haven't read it. Considering it.
The Apone connection is a little bit of a turn off.
Like if the book started about his brother trying to figure out what happened to him, and stumbling across Bishop, that would make sense.
Any other connection context is hard to imagine.
Oh god I got to
the moment.
Spoiler
Uuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
UUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Christ, way to tank an actually genuinely poignant and important scene.
Spoiler
Also, Robert Morse name-drop outta f**kin' nowhere. Will it have a payoff? I'm not so sure!
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 10, 2024, 03:44:11 AMOh god I got to the moment.
Spoiler
Uuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
UUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Christ, way to tank an actually genuinely poignant and important scene.
Spoiler
Also, Robert Morse name-drop outta f**kin' nowhere. Will it have a payoff? I'm not so sure!
Yeah, Napier have a habit of overusing onomatopoeias for some reason. They would work in comic book speech bubbles but in a novel format, not so much. And it's weird, because It's not like he has problems with descriptions, both of action or emotions. The scene that You are reffering to for example, was nice and tense up to this sudden drop. But it's not like it completely ruins the whole setup. My eybrow just twitched a little at this moment and I just moved on.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 10, 2024, 03:44:11 AMSpoiler
Also, Robert Morse name-drop outta f**kin' nowhere. Will it have a payoff? I'm not so sure!
Spoiler
Yes. He actually appears towards the end of the book. Michael Bishop is keeping him on the Xinjiang for no conceivable reason whatsoever. He wants ice cream!
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Jan 10, 2024, 10:04:18 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Jan 10, 2024, 03:44:11 AMSpoiler
Also, Robert Morse name-drop outta f**kin' nowhere. Will it have a payoff? I'm not so sure!
Spoiler
Yes. He actually appears towards the end of the book. Michael Bishop is keeping him on the Xinjiang for no conceivable reason whatsoever. He wants ice cream!
I'm glad it has some kind of resolution I guess?
So does anything important in this book?
I am just waiting for the paperback version to come out.
I had a quick peruse of this, not sure if I am going to like when I read it properly.
Spoiler
A lot of weird crap happens. Michael seems to be a meglomaniac that would make his ACM version proud. The whole consciousness uploading reminds me of AVP 2010 as the "Bishop" there uploaded himself too, or at least had copies. A few instances reminds of Resurrection too where people are locked in a room with eggs. I will give it a proper read soon since I can't really properly review or comment on it if I have not read it fully
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 14, 2024, 10:22:39 PMI had a quick peruse of this, not sure if I am going to like when I read it properly. Spoiler
A lot of weird crap happens. Michael seems to be a meglomaniac that would make his ACM version proud. The whole consciousness uploading reminds me of AVP 2010 as the "Bishop" there uploaded himself too, or at least had copies. A few instances reminds of Resurrection too where people are locked in a room with eggs. I will give it a proper read soon since I can't really properly review or comment on it if I have not read it fully
Spoiler
Michael Bishop uploading himself as a virtual consciousness completely contradicts the W-Y Report and possibly Heart of Darkness, unless the Michael Bishop who appears during the briefing in the latter is a projection.
"Weird crap" sums up this book perfectly.
What is Heart of Darkness?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 15, 2024, 07:24:34 PMWhat is Heart of Darkness?
A little known book by some obscure author.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 15, 2024, 07:25:15 PMQuote from: Xenomrph on Jan 15, 2024, 07:24:34 PMWhat is Heart of Darkness?
A little known book by some obscure author.
Well I mean, I know Conrad, I meant if there's some Alien story with the same title.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 15, 2024, 07:34:04 PMWell I mean, I know Conrad, I meant if there's some Alien story with the same title.
It's an Alien RPG module. Pretty cool, actually. At the outset, the characters are briefed by Michael Bishop.
Spoiler
Or his glittering projection, idk/idc
Is the Patna mentioned/featured?
Quote from: Wweyland on Jan 16, 2024, 07:50:56 AMIs the Patna mentioned/featured?
Spoiler
Yup. Michael Bishop has abandoned it for the Xinjiang and left its reactor to overload. Of course, Apone's team don't know that when they raid it at the start.
I guess it doesn't fit at all with Aliens: Colonial Marines? But then again, why should it?
Quote from: Wweyland on Jan 16, 2024, 10:01:25 AMI guess it doesn't fit at all with Aliens: Colonial Marines? But then again, why should it?
That game is officially non-canon as far as story goes. Creatures and technology are still valid though.
Non-canon for sure, but no reason why some good ideas can't be salvages and re-used (as long as their origin makes it clear its not the same as whatever lore it had in ACM), Fireteam used crushers and spitters for example.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 16, 2024, 11:57:19 AMNon-canon for sure, but no reason why some good ideas can't be salvages and re-used (as long as their origin makes it clear its not the same as whatever lore it had in ACM), Fireteam used crushers and spitters for example.
Yup. As aforementioned, creatures and technology in ACM are canon.
Would the USS Sephora be canon though? I think it appeared in Aliens: Infestation as well.
Infestation I think was supposed to be a companion game to ACM, but the events are all over the shop and don't correlate with ACM. Or the films. But it's still a much more fun game than ACM.
Filled with characters with actual personality.
Quote from: Wweyland on Jan 22, 2024, 11:26:58 PMWould the USS Sephora be canon though? I think it appeared in Aliens: Infestation as well.
I'd think the Sephora itself could exist, even if the events of ACM (or Infestation I guess) do not.
I was a little slow reading Bishop, but that's mostly because I've not been in a reading mood. I finished it yesterday and I actually really enjoyed it! Some minor nitpicks of details, but I seem to be on the outside in rather liking this one.
How did it compare to Vasquez?
Quote from: Wweyland on Jan 25, 2024, 10:22:49 AMHow did it compare to Vasquez?
It is much better. I would say Vasquez had more interesting and less basic idea, but it didn't work because of weak, disjointed construction, where it had first part about Vasquez, second about her children, and weak finale that wasn't well connected to the rest and every character's appear in it feel artifical and forced. Bishop Has much better construction, where its several plotlines nicely overlap each other and they all conclude in nice finale that feels much more natural and cohesive.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Jan 25, 2024, 11:49:48 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Jan 25, 2024, 10:22:49 AMHow did it compare to Vasquez?
It is much better. I would say Vasquez had more interesting and less basic idea, but it didn't work because of weak, disjointed construction, where it had first part about Vasquez, second about her children, and weak finale that wasn't well connected to the rest and every character's appear in it feel artifical and forced. Bishop Has much better construction, where its several plotlines nicely overlap each other and they all conclude in nice finale that feels much more natural and cohesive.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much time was spent on secondary characters and superfluous plotlines; plus, the inclusion of the Xenomorphs redefines the phrase "shoehorned in".
Quite frankly, I'd have preferred it if the Xenomorph hadn't featured in the book at all.
Alien: Covenant - Origins proved that an
Alien novel can exist without having to have actual... Aliens in it.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Jan 25, 2024, 11:57:14 AMQuote from: jacobo1122 on Jan 25, 2024, 11:49:48 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Jan 25, 2024, 10:22:49 AMHow did it compare to Vasquez?
It is much better. I would say Vasquez had more interesting and less basic idea, but it didn't work because of weak, disjointed construction, where it had first part about Vasquez, second about her children, and weak finale that wasn't well connected to the rest and every character's appear in it feel artifical and forced. Bishop Has much better construction, where its several plotlines nicely overlap each other and they all conclude in nice finale that feels much more natural and cohesive.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much time was spent on secondary characters and superfluous plotlines; plus, the inclusion of the Xenomorphs redefines the phrase "shoehorned in".
Quite frankly, I'd have preferred it if the Xenomorph hadn't featured in the book at all. Alien: Covenant - Origins proved that an Alien novel can exist without having to have actual... Aliens in it.
I precaisly felt that Aliens were shoehorned in Vasquez. In Bishop, yeah, their inclusion wasn't the best, but also nothing offensive, and they were at least nicely represented. As for secondary characters and plots, I had similiar feeling in the middle of the book, but as I mentioned, I felt that finale nicely put them all together and made it work.
But I agree, there should be a place for stories without Xenomorphs in them. I can't say anything about Origins, I haven't read it, But Inferno's Fall proved for me that we don't need classic XX121s to tell a good story.
I preferred Vasquez. And Vasquez was not terribly great.
Bishop is just an absolute mess and undermines Alien 3 completely.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 25, 2024, 04:05:20 PMI preferred Vasquez. And Vasquez was not terribly great.
Bishop is just an absolute mess and undermines Alien 3 completely.
Well, You can say that about every EU story that takes place after Alien 3 :)
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Jan 25, 2024, 01:13:35 PMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Jan 25, 2024, 11:57:14 AMQuote from: jacobo1122 on Jan 25, 2024, 11:49:48 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Jan 25, 2024, 10:22:49 AMHow did it compare to Vasquez?
It is much better. I would say Vasquez had more interesting and less basic idea, but it didn't work because of weak, disjointed construction, where it had first part about Vasquez, second about her children, and weak finale that wasn't well connected to the rest and every character's appear in it feel artifical and forced. Bishop Has much better construction, where its several plotlines nicely overlap each other and they all conclude in nice finale that feels much more natural and cohesive.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much time was spent on secondary characters and superfluous plotlines; plus, the inclusion of the Xenomorphs redefines the phrase "shoehorned in".
Quite frankly, I'd have preferred it if the Xenomorph hadn't featured in the book at all. Alien: Covenant - Origins proved that an Alien novel can exist without having to have actual... Aliens in it.
I precaisly felt that Aliens were shoehorned in Vasquez. In Bishop, yeah, their inclusion wasn't the best, but also nothing offensive, and they were at least nicely represented. As for secondary characters and plots, I had similiar feeling in the middle of the book, but as I mentioned, I felt that finale nicely put them all together and made it work.
But I agree, there should be a place for stories without Xenomorphs in them. I can't say anything about Origins, I haven't read it, But Inferno's Fall proved for me that we don't need classic XX121s to tell a good story.
Inferno's Fall for me was great until the Alien wannabes showed up. Had every opportunity to use the Neomorphs to their full potential. They chickened out and just used Alien knockoffs instead that completely undermines how the Pathogen works. Plus not using the Davids they setup so well, poorly written action, 3 consecutive fakeout deaths for the main character in the span of just a few pages and the very bad portrayal of the synth daughter. The first half was almost perfect. The family and the first Neomorph attack was great. Everything after that was so disappointing IMO.
Could not have said it better myself frankly.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Jan 25, 2024, 05:52:16 PMQuote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 25, 2024, 04:05:20 PMI preferred Vasquez. And Vasquez was not terribly great.
Bishop is just an absolute mess and undermines Alien 3 completely.
Well, You can say that about every EU story that takes place after Alien 3 :)
This was always an issue for me, and I said as much working with Fox. Any encounters need to be as small and as isolated as possible. As much as you can, Ripley's sacrifice needs to be honoured. Ultimately you end up with a million small and isolated stories, which means the Aliens are everywhere anyway. And they were planning something that was the antithesis of small and isolated too. ;D
Go full Cameroaliens. Let them take the universe!
I like bleakness of Ripley sacrifice being meaningless. It shows how big and uncaring space is, and how small people are. I also like that Aliens are basicly everywhere, making them this cosmic force slowly infecting everything. But because of how big space is and how poorly communication and traveling works, nobody sees it. So I never have that problem.
Even if you render it meaningless, there's still the fact they need her to get an Alien other than the dozens of other apparent sources.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Jan 26, 2024, 12:21:38 AMInferno's Fall for me was great until the Alien wannabes showed up. Had every opportunity to use the Neomorphs to their full potential. They chickened out and just used Alien knockoffs instead that completely undermines how the Pathogen works. Plus not using the Davids they setup so well, poorly written action, 3 consecutive fakeout deaths for the main character in the span of just a few pages and the very bad portrayal of the synth daughter. The first half was almost perfect. The family and the first Neomorph attack was great. Everything after that was so disappointing IMO.
It Has its problems, Black goo working differently, somewhat poor finale with shoehorned Engineers turning into Xenos, but overall I think it's still a great book, trying something new, having great set of characters and managing to handle such a vast cast very well, bringing back known characters into plot nicely and having great worldbuilding.
Quote from: SM on Jan 26, 2024, 09:00:51 AMEven if you render it meaningless, there's still the fact they need her to get an Alien other than the dozens of other apparent sources.
Yeah, that's the bigger problem and harder to justify. It can still work if you think how much time it takes to communicate or travel in this Universe and that there can be many branches of company, that don't know of each other schemes, but the more incidents and secret labs in EU we get, the less probable it becomes. I mean, at this points WY should have gathered all the knowledge of Xenomorphs, or recognize it not worth it, considering how much costs they sink into so much failed experiments :D But what the hell, I need my constant dosage of Alien content, do I can turn a blind eye to it.
Great for the first third, one of my favourites and... totally falls apart after that.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Jan 26, 2024, 09:03:20 AMQuote from: Still Collating... on Jan 26, 2024, 12:21:38 AMInferno's Fall for me was great until the Alien wannabes showed up. Had every opportunity to use the Neomorphs to their full potential. They chickened out and just used Alien knockoffs instead that completely undermines how the Pathogen works. Plus not using the Davids they setup so well, poorly written action, 3 consecutive fakeout deaths for the main character in the span of just a few pages and the very bad portrayal of the synth daughter. The first half was almost perfect. The family and the first Neomorph attack was great. Everything after that was so disappointing IMO.
It Has its problems, Black goo working differently, somewhat poor finale with shoehorned Engineers turning into Xenos, but overall I think it's still a great book, trying something new, having great set of characters and managing to handle such a vast cast very well, bringing back known characters into plot nicely and having great worldbuilding.
Quote from: SM on Jan 26, 2024, 09:00:51 AMEven if you render it meaningless, there's still the fact they need her to get an Alien other than the dozens of other apparent sources.
Yeah, that's the bigger problem and harder to justify. It can still work if you think how much time it takes to communicate or travel in this Universe and that there can be many branches of company, that don't know of each other schemes, but the more incidents and secret labs in EU we get, the less probable it becomes. I mean, at this points WY should have gathered all the knowledge of Xenomorphs, or recognize it not worth it, considering how much costs they sink into so much failed experiments :D But what the hell, I need my constant dosage of Alien content, do I can turn a blind eye to it.
lol
We originally had plans for everything about the Aliens to be memory holed a century prior to Resurrection too allow everything to fit.
I'm curious. I've been purposely avoiding these books since the Colony War trilogy, but.. maybe I'll pick it up.
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Jan 31, 2024, 10:56:11 AMI'm curious. I've been purposely avoiding these books since the Colony War trilogy, but.. maybe I'll pick it up.
True, it's hard to top Colony War.
Was there even a war?
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 01, 2024, 11:03:56 PMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Feb 01, 2024, 01:32:47 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Feb 01, 2024, 12:31:06 PMWas there even a war?
In the RPG, yes.
What about in the books?
The newer books acknowledge the wars but don't actually talk about them. None of them so far have tried doing that which is weird.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Feb 04, 2024, 02:08:01 AMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 01, 2024, 11:03:56 PMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Feb 01, 2024, 01:32:47 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Feb 01, 2024, 12:31:06 PMWas there even a war?
In the RPG, yes.
What about in the books?
The newer books acknowledge the wars but don't actually talk about them. None of them so far have tried doing that which is weird.
I haven't really gone thru the RPG.. mostly because the lore is messy and I kinda disregard it anyway.
This novel does crib off the RPG quite a bit - there's references to arms being supplied to Linna 349 by the UPP, the Accipiter dropship is mentioned, the Xinjiang travels to 17 Phei Phei, Pham Dinh gets a cameo, there's reference to the Torin Prime civil war, Chinese troops use the AK-4047, we get a close-up look at the Australia Wars, and so on.
I like the RPG, but writers seem to be using it as a crutch now, rather than writing anything original. Take the RPG elements out of any recent Alien novel, and there's not a whole lot there.
Yes the tie in has backfired really in the sense the novels have gone downhill because of what must be a mandate to include RPG elements. I imagine some authors wont be that enthused having to add certain plot points all the time to their own stories.
A shame as the RPG has done wonderful things, but definitely does not seem a coincidence Titan's largely impressive run started to decline when the two merged together.
I don't know if RPG inclusions are mandated, but I asked Andrew Gaska if he was consulted on the Bishop book and he was not. He got tired of doing consulting gigs for Titan for free so he told them to start paying him, and they said "lol nah no thanks".
The character based Bishop and Vasquez novels seem to be the only exceptions, possibly because they come under the seperate 'Aliens' moniker maybe, Im not sure. I would imagine there was a mandate for the others though given they all had a mini RPG scenario included.
But if that's Gaska's attitude now then hopefully the tie ins will end and they can both just concentrate on doing their own thing.
I will never be not annoyed that Inferno's Fall messed up that the Prowler and Defender are supposed to be the very same thing.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Feb 04, 2024, 05:50:04 PMI will never be not annoyed that Inferno's Fall messed up that the Prowler and Sentry are supposed to be the very same thing.
I don't know what either of those things are.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Feb 04, 2024, 05:41:08 PMBut if that's Gaska's attitude now then hopefully the tie ins will end and they can both just concentrate on doing their own thing.
Gaska's attitude of wanting to get paid for his time and work seems sensible to me.
The Defender being the mature stage of a Runner in the RPG before Crusher, like the Warrior to the Drone before Praetorian.
The Prowler in Aliens Fireteam Elite being imo obviously another take on that very same concept, that of a more mature Runner, an intermediary indicated by the design of the crest expanding with features of the larger iteration.
The Prowler for some bizarre reason, got used as a type of Neomorph at the end of that very book, in the included scenario, that it is most definitely not.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 05, 2024, 05:24:55 AMGaska's attitude of wanting to get paid for his time and work seems sensible to me.
Well yes, obviously. I'm just referring to the topic at hand about the rpg and the books.
You're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 05, 2024, 10:55:16 AMYou're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.
Followed closely by
Enemy of my Enemy, which runs away with the title of most boring
Alien novel of all time.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Feb 05, 2024, 01:46:57 PMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 05, 2024, 10:55:16 AMYou're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.
Followed closely by Enemy of my Enemy, which runs away with the title of most boring Alien novel of all time.
I should've clarified that I was referring to the whole trilogy.
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 05, 2024, 07:36:29 PMI should've clarified that I was referring to the whole trilogy.
Yeah. I'd throw the whole trilogy in the crapper.
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 05, 2024, 10:55:16 AMYou're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.
You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.
Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.
I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 05, 2024, 11:46:06 PMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 05, 2024, 10:55:16 AMYou're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.
You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.
Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.
I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.
The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 06, 2024, 01:15:16 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 05, 2024, 11:46:06 PMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 05, 2024, 10:55:16 AMYou're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.
You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.
Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.
I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.
The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.
Again, I'm not sure that's the RPG's fault that the scenarios the players come up with aren't creative enough. The open-ended framework is there and is being continuously built upon to provide more thematic options.
Like, I could come up with a (dark) comedy scenario based around a bunch of corporate executives struggling to slit each other's throats (sometimes literally) in a corporate lab where a Neomorph ends up breaking free.
Or one where you take 'Alien' and flip the script where the space truckers get told to investigate an Alien hive and instead say "yeah, nah, f**k that, we'd rather forfeit our shares than potentially get murdered by space monsters" and then the secret Android flips out due to conflicts in his programming and goes full Terminator to subdue the crew.
Or one where a group of Marines gets deployed to neutralize a hostile military force only to figure out that the "hostile force" are AWOL Marines who bailed when they figured out they were guinea pigs for a deranged WY black goo field experiment.
Like, I mean, I just came up with all three of those off the top of my head. I don't know what the Titan mandates for RPG references are like, but it could be stuff as simple as being set on a random planet picked from the star maps in the RPG, to name-dropping a ship or character name from somewhere in one of the adventure modules, or using a piece of equipment or vehicle mentioned in the RPG.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 05, 2024, 05:24:55 AMGaska's attitude of wanting to get paid for his time and work seems sensible to me.
If he really cared, he'd do it for free! >:(
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 06, 2024, 03:44:30 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 05, 2024, 05:24:55 AMGaska's attitude of wanting to get paid for his time and work seems sensible to me.
If he really cared, he'd do it for free! >:(
For a long time he did, but you gotta value your own time. If you're good at what you do, don't do it for free.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 06, 2024, 03:28:40 AMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 06, 2024, 01:15:16 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 05, 2024, 11:46:06 PMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 05, 2024, 10:55:16 AMYou're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.
You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.
Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.
I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.
The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.
Again, I'm not sure that's the RPG's fault that the scenarios the players come up with aren't creative enough. The open-ended framework is there and is being continuously built upon to provide more thematic options.
Like, I could come up with a (dark) comedy scenario based around a bunch of corporate executives struggling to slit each other's throats (sometimes literally) in a corporate lab where a Neomorph ends up breaking free.
Or one where you take 'Alien' and flip the script where the space truckers get told to investigate an Alien hive and instead say "yeah, nah, f**k that, we'd rather forfeit our shares than potentially get murdered by space monsters" and then the secret Android flips out due to conflicts in his programming and goes full Terminator to subdue the crew.
Or one where a group of Marines gets deployed to neutralize a hostile military force only to figure out that the "hostile force" are AWOL Marines who bailed when they figured out they were guinea pigs for a deranged WY black goo field experiment.
Like, I mean, I just came up with all three of those off the top of my head. I don't know what the Titan mandates for RPG references are like, but it could be stuff as simple as being set on a random planet picked from the star maps in the RPG, to name-dropping a ship or character name from somewhere in one of the adventure modules, or using a piece of equipment or vehicle mentioned in the RPG.
But then, would it be Alien? Now you could argue yes, because of the characters, equipment, ships, etc, but to remove the Alien or "aliens" in general would just kind of remove the core aspect of the RPG.
Now that black goo narrative toward the end, that's just giving me another example of how constrained the universe is.
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 06, 2024, 07:04:29 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 06, 2024, 03:28:40 AMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 06, 2024, 01:15:16 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 05, 2024, 11:46:06 PMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 05, 2024, 10:55:16 AMYou're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.
You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.
Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.
I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.
The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.
Again, I'm not sure that's the RPG's fault that the scenarios the players come up with aren't creative enough. The open-ended framework is there and is being continuously built upon to provide more thematic options.
Like, I could come up with a (dark) comedy scenario based around a bunch of corporate executives struggling to slit each other's throats (sometimes literally) in a corporate lab where a Neomorph ends up breaking free.
Or one where you take 'Alien' and flip the script where the space truckers get told to investigate an Alien hive and instead say "yeah, nah, f**k that, we'd rather forfeit our shares than potentially get murdered by space monsters" and then the secret Android flips out due to conflicts in his programming and goes full Terminator to subdue the crew.
Or one where a group of Marines gets deployed to neutralize a hostile military force only to figure out that the "hostile force" are AWOL Marines who bailed when they figured out they were guinea pigs for a deranged WY black goo field experiment.
Like, I mean, I just came up with all three of those off the top of my head. I don't know what the Titan mandates for RPG references are like, but it could be stuff as simple as being set on a random planet picked from the star maps in the RPG, to name-dropping a ship or character name from somewhere in one of the adventure modules, or using a piece of equipment or vehicle mentioned in the RPG.
But then, would it be Alien? Now you could argue yes, because of the characters, equipment, ships, etc, but to remove the Alien or "aliens" in general would just kind of remove the core aspect of the RPG.
Now that black goo narrative toward the end, that's just giving me another example of how constrained the universe is.
The point of the RPG is that you can have adventures in the setting without it being a retread of the first 3 movies. It broadens the definition of what it means to be an "Alien" story.
I just came up with 3 examples (2 of which feature creatures from the movies).
Mandating the inclusion of Aliens in an Aliens-brand story is one of the core problems with the Bishop novel, for example - the book would be much more interesting if Aliens never showed up.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 06, 2024, 10:46:49 AMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 06, 2024, 07:04:29 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 06, 2024, 03:28:40 AMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 06, 2024, 01:15:16 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 05, 2024, 11:46:06 PMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 05, 2024, 10:55:16 AMYou're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.
You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.
Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.
I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.
The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.
Again, I'm not sure that's the RPG's fault that the scenarios the players come up with aren't creative enough. The open-ended framework is there and is being continuously built upon to provide more thematic options.
Like, I could come up with a (dark) comedy scenario based around a bunch of corporate executives struggling to slit each other's throats (sometimes literally) in a corporate lab where a Neomorph ends up breaking free.
Or one where you take 'Alien' and flip the script where the space truckers get told to investigate an Alien hive and instead say "yeah, nah, f**k that, we'd rather forfeit our shares than potentially get murdered by space monsters" and then the secret Android flips out due to conflicts in his programming and goes full Terminator to subdue the crew.
Or one where a group of Marines gets deployed to neutralize a hostile military force only to figure out that the "hostile force" are AWOL Marines who bailed when they figured out they were guinea pigs for a deranged WY black goo field experiment.
Like, I mean, I just came up with all three of those off the top of my head. I don't know what the Titan mandates for RPG references are like, but it could be stuff as simple as being set on a random planet picked from the star maps in the RPG, to name-dropping a ship or character name from somewhere in one of the adventure modules, or using a piece of equipment or vehicle mentioned in the RPG.
But then, would it be Alien? Now you could argue yes, because of the characters, equipment, ships, etc, but to remove the Alien or "aliens" in general would just kind of remove the core aspect of the RPG.
Now that black goo narrative toward the end, that's just giving me another example of how constrained the universe is.
The point of the RPG is that you can have adventures in the setting without it being a retread of the first 3 movies. It broadens the definition of what it means to be an "Alien" story.
I just came up with 3 examples (2 of which feature creatures from the movies).
Mandating the inclusion of Aliens in an Aliens-brand story is one of the core problems with the Bishop novel, for example - the book would be much more interesting if Aliens never showed up.
A fair assessment but then.. why have the RPG at all? I feel like I'm also circling around because I like my Alien universe/galaxy pretty empty but I also love some of these stories and the RPG gives you plenty to play with.. but I also feel it gives you too much to play with in a confined space, particularly if you're an author. As gamers, it's whatever.
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 06, 2024, 11:07:25 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 06, 2024, 10:46:49 AMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 06, 2024, 07:04:29 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 06, 2024, 03:28:40 AMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 06, 2024, 01:15:16 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 05, 2024, 11:46:06 PMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 05, 2024, 10:55:16 AMYou're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.
You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.
Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.
I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.
The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.
Again, I'm not sure that's the RPG's fault that the scenarios the players come up with aren't creative enough. The open-ended framework is there and is being continuously built upon to provide more thematic options.
Like, I could come up with a (dark) comedy scenario based around a bunch of corporate executives struggling to slit each other's throats (sometimes literally) in a corporate lab where a Neomorph ends up breaking free.
Or one where you take 'Alien' and flip the script where the space truckers get told to investigate an Alien hive and instead say "yeah, nah, f**k that, we'd rather forfeit our shares than potentially get murdered by space monsters" and then the secret Android flips out due to conflicts in his programming and goes full Terminator to subdue the crew.
Or one where a group of Marines gets deployed to neutralize a hostile military force only to figure out that the "hostile force" are AWOL Marines who bailed when they figured out they were guinea pigs for a deranged WY black goo field experiment.
Like, I mean, I just came up with all three of those off the top of my head. I don't know what the Titan mandates for RPG references are like, but it could be stuff as simple as being set on a random planet picked from the star maps in the RPG, to name-dropping a ship or character name from somewhere in one of the adventure modules, or using a piece of equipment or vehicle mentioned in the RPG.
But then, would it be Alien? Now you could argue yes, because of the characters, equipment, ships, etc, but to remove the Alien or "aliens" in general would just kind of remove the core aspect of the RPG.
Now that black goo narrative toward the end, that's just giving me another example of how constrained the universe is.
The point of the RPG is that you can have adventures in the setting without it being a retread of the first 3 movies. It broadens the definition of what it means to be an "Alien" story.
I just came up with 3 examples (2 of which feature creatures from the movies).
Mandating the inclusion of Aliens in an Aliens-brand story is one of the core problems with the Bishop novel, for example - the book would be much more interesting if Aliens never showed up.
A fair assessment but then.. why have the RPG at all? I feel like I'm also circling around because I like my Alien universe/galaxy pretty empty but I also love some of these stories and the RPG gives you plenty to play with.. but I also feel it gives you too much to play with in a confined space, particularly if you're an author. As gamers, it's whatever.
I think I'd rather have too much to play with than too little.
What don't mean by "why have the RPG at all?"
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 06, 2024, 11:34:16 AMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 06, 2024, 11:07:25 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 06, 2024, 10:46:49 AMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 06, 2024, 07:04:29 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 06, 2024, 03:28:40 AMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 06, 2024, 01:15:16 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 05, 2024, 11:46:06 PMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 05, 2024, 10:55:16 AMYou're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.
You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.
Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.
I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.
The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.
Again, I'm not sure that's the RPG's fault that the scenarios the players come up with aren't creative enough. The open-ended framework is there and is being continuously built upon to provide more thematic options.
Like, I could come up with a (dark) comedy scenario based around a bunch of corporate executives struggling to slit each other's throats (sometimes literally) in a corporate lab where a Neomorph ends up breaking free.
Or one where you take 'Alien' and flip the script where the space truckers get told to investigate an Alien hive and instead say "yeah, nah, f**k that, we'd rather forfeit our shares than potentially get murdered by space monsters" and then the secret Android flips out due to conflicts in his programming and goes full Terminator to subdue the crew.
Or one where a group of Marines gets deployed to neutralize a hostile military force only to figure out that the "hostile force" are AWOL Marines who bailed when they figured out they were guinea pigs for a deranged WY black goo field experiment.
Like, I mean, I just came up with all three of those off the top of my head. I don't know what the Titan mandates for RPG references are like, but it could be stuff as simple as being set on a random planet picked from the star maps in the RPG, to name-dropping a ship or character name from somewhere in one of the adventure modules, or using a piece of equipment or vehicle mentioned in the RPG.
But then, would it be Alien? Now you could argue yes, because of the characters, equipment, ships, etc, but to remove the Alien or "aliens" in general would just kind of remove the core aspect of the RPG.
Now that black goo narrative toward the end, that's just giving me another example of how constrained the universe is.
The point of the RPG is that you can have adventures in the setting without it being a retread of the first 3 movies. It broadens the definition of what it means to be an "Alien" story.
I just came up with 3 examples (2 of which feature creatures from the movies).
Mandating the inclusion of Aliens in an Aliens-brand story is one of the core problems with the Bishop novel, for example - the book would be much more interesting if Aliens never showed up.
A fair assessment but then.. why have the RPG at all? I feel like I'm also circling around because I like my Alien universe/galaxy pretty empty but I also love some of these stories and the RPG gives you plenty to play with.. but I also feel it gives you too much to play with in a confined space, particularly if you're an author. As gamers, it's whatever.
I think I'd rather have too much to play with than too little.
What don't mean by "why have the RPG at all?"
At this point, I'm fighting a migraine and I lost my train of thought. But I think I was referring to authors using the RPG as this mandated bible. That's where I was getting at.
Apologies if this is already been posted but how did this book get past the editing stage! The lead protagonist has her name spelt three different ways. Karri, Karry, Karrie - I mean come on. Lazy editing!
About half way through - it's ok, nothing special.
Mm I finally read Bishop.. and.. it's not good. It's whatever.
I should've stuck to my guns and avoided reading this books.
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 19, 2024, 08:47:19 AMI should've stuck to my guns and avoided reading this books.
Don't say you weren't warned...
Sorry Slutty Badger, you're not gonna like this... :laugh:
Just finished Aliens: Bishop. Listened to the Audiobook version, so the spelling mistakes weren't a detractor for me.
Even though I heard some troubling stuff from some who've had a chance to read it before, it all just sounds a lot worse than it is actually.
The author did shoot himself in the foot by adding of his own volition another family member of movie characters after a long recent string of poorly written family members in other novels. But Apone there feels very natural, very earned and doesn't overstay his welcome, he's actually a secondary character. And as the author said, military families are a thing, so it worked better than I expected.
I jumped to conclusions and started on the wrong foot expecting I won't like it, but after a lot of positive reviews as well, I had to see for myself. Tried to go in with an open mind as much as I can.
Lets get the negatives out of the way first. Cause there were fewer of them than I feared!
The dialogue at times does seem a bit awkward, but I can't say it's unrealistic. It never ripped me out of the scene. And that katana was unnecessary, but again, it was slowly built up, earned and not too over the top. Apone was a bit unnecessary (though well written), but on the other hand, without his motivations, I doubt any other squad would've tried that hard to to for Bishop. That's about it for the negatives, not much.
Now the positives. The most important thing for me always is how the Alien is portrayed. And this here is some of the best I've seen in the novels ever. Pulse Rifles and smart guns kill them of course (but not with one bullet like in the old Perry novels), but the Aliens are fast, they dodge, stalk you and use sneak attacks. Pistols regularly ricochet from their skull as they should. The deaths are brutal, acid is not forgotten about and regularly does significant damage TO EVERYTHING. The Aliens are shown to be smart and constantly underestimated. They try to manipulate the creatures, to use them and it goes so horribly wrong cause the creatures are smarter than they anticipated. They are also extremely deadly and do some gruesome damage. From the facehugger to the adult, all stages feel like a threat.
The action is very well written unlike in the last trilogy, very descriptive and easy to follow. You can imagine the whole scene with no effort.
The worldbuilding is phenomenal. You can see the author understands and loves the expanded universe. And that Fox actually took on a writer which already writes similar stuff on his own time. The Australia wars and the UPP are very well done here. Expanded upon a good amount, written engagingly and it felt all faithful to the universe.
There's more good setup and execution of people/factions/rebels breaking away from their parent organizations than the whole of the previous "Colony War" trilogy. So it's hilarious to see that here, but welcomed!
Even though I mentioned that the dialogue is sometimes clunky, what is being said, what is meant, how they say it, the whole context of conversations is fantastic. Not one character was bland or annoying. All are memorable and engaging which is rare for me! And there are a lot of main characters and side characters. All of them have prominent good and bad qualities, nobody's perfect, virtues get used and setup, faults bite them in the ass, a lot of morally gray stuff through the book which I love.
I was worried at first mostly by the Bishop (Michael) vs Bishop (synth) dialogue, if the author was going to be able to pull that off. That has the potential to be so bad, but was executed wonderfully. A lot of nuance, a lot of subtlety and you're never quite sure what to trust, cause there's a lot of convincing arguments. Lot of surprises, but all of them get realistic explanations in due time. Not perfect, but some of the best dialogue about the nature of AI and immortality.
The marine dialogue and interactions in the beginning is some of the best I've ever seen in the novels.
Finally someone that knows how to write synths! If they're not getting glossed over, and actually getting some focus, they're usually written very poorly like in the last trilogy. They are not stiff Doctor Who robots, in the Alien universe they can easily pass off for humans, behavior wise. Even the Working Joes have a sinister understanding and intelligence in their programmed limited responses. This author gets that. Synths may not be humans on the inside, but they sure do act like it on the outside. And that's how they're portrayed here.
The blond twins? Loved them.
What I love most of all is that this novel has a bit of everything for everyone. And yet everything is fleshed out just enough. You want worldbuilding? Tons of it, Australian refugees, UPP, Gateway UA training camp. You want decent and intense action for a change? Say no more. Want some horror and tense moments without the rifles? You have that too. Engaging marine pov? Hell yeah. Not just Russian UPPs again? You got the Chinese pov finally. A look at a pirate's/smuggler's life? You got it. Aliens handled with dignity? Certainly. WY people having more than one brain cell and not being cartoonishly evil? Now we're talking.
So much stuff happens it feels like a rollercoaster ride. A fun one. Easily in my top 5, hope we see the author return.
It just feels a lot more fun and intense and a lot more was happening than in the recent books, it just felt very different. Maybe because I was expecting such a trainwreck, I got pleasantly surprised when this wasn't Colony War all over again.
And I'm saying this as someone who puts the Alex White novels at the top, followed by Phalanx. Really was surprised with Echo, really liked Out of the Shadows in spite of Ripley, Sea of Sorrows, enjoyed good bits of the Rage War Trilogy (even though I hated the Rage themselves and the portrayal of the Aliens...).
Quote from: Still Collating... on Feb 19, 2024, 10:14:52 PMSorry Slutty Badger, you're not gonna like this... :laugh:
Just finished Aliens: Bishop. Listened to the Audiobook version, so the spelling mistakes weren't a detractor for me.
Even though I heard some troubling stuff from some who've had a chance to read it before, it all just sounds a lot worse than it is actually.
The author did shoot himself in the foot by adding of his own volition another family member of movie characters after a long recent string of poorly written family members in other novels. But Apone there feels very natural, very earned and doesn't overstay his welcome, he's actually a secondary character. And as the author said, military families are a thing, so it worked better than I expected.
I jumped to conclusions and started on the wrong foot expecting I won't like it, but after a lot of positive reviews as well, I had to see for myself. Tried to go in with an open mind as much as I can.
Lets get the negatives out of the way first. Cause there were fewer of them than I feared!
The dialogue at times does seem a bit awkward, but I can't say it's unrealistic. It never ripped me out of the scene. And that katana was unnecessary, but again, it was slowly built up, earned and not too over the top. Apone was a bit unnecessary (though well written), but on the other hand, without his motivations, I doubt any other squad would've tried that hard to to for Bishop. That's about it for the negatives, not much.
Now the positives. The most important thing for me always is how the Alien is portrayed. And this here is some of the best I've seen in the novels ever. Pulse Rifles and smart guns kill them of course (but not with one bullet like in the old Perry novels), but the Aliens are fast, they dodge, stalk you and use sneak attacks. Pistols regularly ricochet from their skull as they should. The deaths are brutal, acid is not forgotten about and regularly does significant damage TO EVERYTHING. The Aliens are shown to be smart and constantly underestimated. They try to manipulate the creatures, to use them and it goes so horribly wrong cause the creatures are smarter than they anticipated. They are also extremely deadly and do some gruesome damage. From the facehugger to the adult, all stages feel like a threat.
The action is very well written unlike in the last trilogy, very descriptive and easy to follow. You can imagine the whole scene with no effort.
The worldbuilding is phenomenal. You can see the author understands and loves the expanded universe. And that Fox actually took on a writer which already writes similar stuff on his own time. The Australia wars and the UPP are very well done here. Expanded upon a good amount, written engagingly and it felt all faithful to the universe.
There's more good setup and execution of people/factions/rebels breaking away from their parent organizations than the whole of the previous "Colony War" trilogy. So it's hilarious to see that here, but welcomed!
Even though I mentioned that the dialogue is sometimes clunky, what is being said, what is meant, how they say it, the whole context of conversations is fantastic. Not one character was bland or annoying. All are memorable and engaging which is rare for me! And there are a lot of main characters and side characters. All of them have prominent good and bad qualities, nobody's perfect, virtues get used and setup, faults bite them in the ass, a lot of morally gray stuff through the book which I love.
I was worried at first mostly by the Bishop (Michael) vs Bishop (synth) dialogue, if the author was going to be able to pull that off. That has the potential to be so bad, but was executed wonderfully. A lot of nuance, a lot of subtlety and you're never quite sure what to trust, cause there's a lot of convincing arguments. Lot of surprises, but all of them get realistic explanations in due time. Not perfect, but some of the best dialogue about the nature of AI and immortality.
The marine dialogue and interactions in the beginning is some of the best I've ever seen in the novels.
Finally someone that knows how to write synths! If they're not getting glossed over, and actually getting some focus, they're usually written very poorly like in the last trilogy. They are not stiff Doctor Who robots, in the Alien universe they can easily pass off for humans, behavior wise. Even the Working Joes have a sinister understanding and intelligence in their programmed limited responses. This author gets that. Synths may not be humans on the inside, but they sure do act like it on the outside. And that's how they're portrayed here.
The blond twins? Loved them.
What I love most of all is that this novel has a bit of everything for everyone. And yet everything is fleshed out just enough. You want worldbuilding? Tons of it, Australian refugees, UPP, Gateway UA training camp. You want decent and intense action for a change? Say no more. Want some horror and tense moments without the rifles? You have that too. Engaging marine pov? Hell yeah. Not just Russian UPPs again? You got the Chinese pov finally. A look at a pirate's/smuggler's life? You got it. Aliens handled with dignity? Certainly. WY people having more than one brain cell and not being cartoonishly evil? Now we're talking.
So much stuff happens it feels like a rollercoaster ride. A fun one. Easily in my top 5, hope we see the author return.
It just feels a lot more fun and intense and a lot more was happening than in the recent books, it just felt very different. Maybe because I was expecting such a trainwreck, I got pleasantly surprised when this wasn't Colony War all over again.
And I'm saying this as someone who puts the Alex White novels at the top, followed by Phalanx. Really was surprised with Echo, really liked Out of the Shadows in spite of Ripley, Sea of Sorrows, enjoyed good bits of the Rage War Trilogy (even though I hated the Rage themselves and the portrayal of the Aliens...).
All that is fine.. but it doesn't make the book any more interesting.. or any less boring. And somebody else in this thread said it best.. it undermines the events in Alien 3.
Nope, still think it's crap. Sorry.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Feb 19, 2024, 10:14:52 PMSorry Slutty Badger, you're not gonna like this... :laugh:
Just finished Aliens: Bishop. Listened to the Audiobook version, so the spelling mistakes weren't a detractor for me.
Even though I heard some troubling stuff from some who've had a chance to read it before, it all just sounds a lot worse than it is actually.
The author did shoot himself in the foot by adding of his own volition another family member of movie characters after a long recent string of poorly written family members in other novels. But Apone there feels very natural, very earned and doesn't overstay his welcome, he's actually a secondary character. And as the author said, military families are a thing, so it worked better than I expected.
I jumped to conclusions and started on the wrong foot expecting I won't like it, but after a lot of positive reviews as well, I had to see for myself. Tried to go in with an open mind as much as I can.
Lets get the negatives out of the way first. Cause there were fewer of them than I feared!
The dialogue at times does seem a bit awkward, but I can't say it's unrealistic. It never ripped me out of the scene. And that katana was unnecessary, but again, it was slowly built up, earned and not too over the top. Apone was a bit unnecessary (though well written), but on the other hand, without his motivations, I doubt any other squad would've tried that hard to to for Bishop. That's about it for the negatives, not much.
Now the positives. The most important thing for me always is how the Alien is portrayed. And this here is some of the best I've seen in the novels ever. Pulse Rifles and smart guns kill them of course (but not with one bullet like in the old Perry novels), but the Aliens are fast, they dodge, stalk you and use sneak attacks. Pistols regularly ricochet from their skull as they should. The deaths are brutal, acid is not forgotten about and regularly does significant damage TO EVERYTHING. The Aliens are shown to be smart and constantly underestimated. They try to manipulate the creatures, to use them and it goes so horribly wrong cause the creatures are smarter than they anticipated. They are also extremely deadly and do some gruesome damage. From the facehugger to the adult, all stages feel like a threat.
The action is very well written unlike in the last trilogy, very descriptive and easy to follow. You can imagine the whole scene with no effort.
The worldbuilding is phenomenal. You can see the author understands and loves the expanded universe. And that Fox actually took on a writer which already writes similar stuff on his own time. The Australia wars and the UPP are very well done here. Expanded upon a good amount, written engagingly and it felt all faithful to the universe.
There's more good setup and execution of people/factions/rebels breaking away from their parent organizations than the whole of the previous "Colony War" trilogy. So it's hilarious to see that here, but welcomed!
Even though I mentioned that the dialogue is sometimes clunky, what is being said, what is meant, how they say it, the whole context of conversations is fantastic. Not one character was bland or annoying. All are memorable and engaging which is rare for me! And there are a lot of main characters and side characters. All of them have prominent good and bad qualities, nobody's perfect, virtues get used and setup, faults bite them in the ass, a lot of morally gray stuff through the book which I love.
I was worried at first mostly by the Bishop (Michael) vs Bishop (synth) dialogue, if the author was going to be able to pull that off. That has the potential to be so bad, but was executed wonderfully. A lot of nuance, a lot of subtlety and you're never quite sure what to trust, cause there's a lot of convincing arguments. Lot of surprises, but all of them get realistic explanations in due time. Not perfect, but some of the best dialogue about the nature of AI and immortality.
The marine dialogue and interactions in the beginning is some of the best I've ever seen in the novels.
Finally someone that knows how to write synths! If they're not getting glossed over, and actually getting some focus, they're usually written very poorly like in the last trilogy. They are not stiff Doctor Who robots, in the Alien universe they can easily pass off for humans, behavior wise. Even the Working Joes have a sinister understanding and intelligence in their programmed limited responses. This author gets that. Synths may not be humans on the inside, but they sure do act like it on the outside. And that's how they're portrayed here.
The blond twins? Loved them.
What I love most of all is that this novel has a bit of everything for everyone. And yet everything is fleshed out just enough. You want worldbuilding? Tons of it, Australian refugees, UPP, Gateway UA training camp. You want decent and intense action for a change? Say no more. Want some horror and tense moments without the rifles? You have that too. Engaging marine pov? Hell yeah. Not just Russian UPPs again? You got the Chinese pov finally. A look at a pirate's/smuggler's life? You got it. Aliens handled with dignity? Certainly. WY people having more than one brain cell and not being cartoonishly evil? Now we're talking.
So much stuff happens it feels like a rollercoaster ride. A fun one. Easily in my top 5, hope we see the author return.
It just feels a lot more fun and intense and a lot more was happening than in the recent books, it just felt very different. Maybe because I was expecting such a trainwreck, I got pleasantly surprised when this wasn't Colony War all over again.
And I'm saying this as someone who puts the Alex White novels at the top, followed by Phalanx. Really was surprised with Echo, really liked Out of the Shadows in spite of Ripley, Sea of Sorrows, enjoyed good bits of the Rage War Trilogy (even though I hated the Rage themselves and the portrayal of the Aliens...).
Great review! Agreed on all points!
Amazon's aggregate review is 4.3/5 and Goodreads aggregate is 4/5 so even though the reviews here on AVPG are split between loving and hating the book, the majority of readers seemed to have enjoyed it.
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Feb 20, 2024, 03:56:59 PMGreat review! Agreed on all points!
Amazon's aggregate review is 4.3/5 and Goodreads aggregate is 4/5 so even though the reviews here on AVPG are split between loving and hating the book, the majority of readers seemed to have enjoyed it.
Colony War has a 4.3 on Amazon. So I guess it must be good.
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 20, 2024, 09:17:32 PMColony War has a 4.3 on Amazon. So I guess it must be good.
Well, can't argue with that.
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 20, 2024, 07:53:45 AMQuote from: Still Collating... on Feb 19, 2024, 10:14:52 PMSorry Slutty Badger, you're not gonna like this... :laugh:
Just finished Aliens: Bishop. Listened to the Audiobook version, so the spelling mistakes weren't a detractor for me.
Even though I heard some troubling stuff from some who've had a chance to read it before, it all just sounds a lot worse than it is actually.
The author did shoot himself in the foot by adding of his own volition another family member of movie characters after a long recent string of poorly written family members in other novels. But Apone there feels very natural, very earned and doesn't overstay his welcome, he's actually a secondary character. And as the author said, military families are a thing, so it worked better than I expected.
I jumped to conclusions and started on the wrong foot expecting I won't like it, but after a lot of positive reviews as well, I had to see for myself. Tried to go in with an open mind as much as I can.
Lets get the negatives out of the way first. Cause there were fewer of them than I feared!
The dialogue at times does seem a bit awkward, but I can't say it's unrealistic. It never ripped me out of the scene. And that katana was unnecessary, but again, it was slowly built up, earned and not too over the top. Apone was a bit unnecessary (though well written), but on the other hand, without his motivations, I doubt any other squad would've tried that hard to to for Bishop. That's about it for the negatives, not much.
Now the positives. The most important thing for me always is how the Alien is portrayed. And this here is some of the best I've seen in the novels ever. Pulse Rifles and smart guns kill them of course (but not with one bullet like in the old Perry novels), but the Aliens are fast, they dodge, stalk you and use sneak attacks. Pistols regularly ricochet from their skull as they should. The deaths are brutal, acid is not forgotten about and regularly does significant damage TO EVERYTHING. The Aliens are shown to be smart and constantly underestimated. They try to manipulate the creatures, to use them and it goes so horribly wrong cause the creatures are smarter than they anticipated. They are also extremely deadly and do some gruesome damage. From the facehugger to the adult, all stages feel like a threat.
The action is very well written unlike in the last trilogy, very descriptive and easy to follow. You can imagine the whole scene with no effort.
The worldbuilding is phenomenal. You can see the author understands and loves the expanded universe. And that Fox actually took on a writer which already writes similar stuff on his own time. The Australia wars and the UPP are very well done here. Expanded upon a good amount, written engagingly and it felt all faithful to the universe.
There's more good setup and execution of people/factions/rebels breaking away from their parent organizations than the whole of the previous "Colony War" trilogy. So it's hilarious to see that here, but welcomed!
Even though I mentioned that the dialogue is sometimes clunky, what is being said, what is meant, how they say it, the whole context of conversations is fantastic. Not one character was bland or annoying. All are memorable and engaging which is rare for me! And there are a lot of main characters and side characters. All of them have prominent good and bad qualities, nobody's perfect, virtues get used and setup, faults bite them in the ass, a lot of morally gray stuff through the book which I love.
I was worried at first mostly by the Bishop (Michael) vs Bishop (synth) dialogue, if the author was going to be able to pull that off. That has the potential to be so bad, but was executed wonderfully. A lot of nuance, a lot of subtlety and you're never quite sure what to trust, cause there's a lot of convincing arguments. Lot of surprises, but all of them get realistic explanations in due time. Not perfect, but some of the best dialogue about the nature of AI and immortality.
The marine dialogue and interactions in the beginning is some of the best I've ever seen in the novels.
Finally someone that knows how to write synths! If they're not getting glossed over, and actually getting some focus, they're usually written very poorly like in the last trilogy. They are not stiff Doctor Who robots, in the Alien universe they can easily pass off for humans, behavior wise. Even the Working Joes have a sinister understanding and intelligence in their programmed limited responses. This author gets that. Synths may not be humans on the inside, but they sure do act like it on the outside. And that's how they're portrayed here.
The blond twins? Loved them.
What I love most of all is that this novel has a bit of everything for everyone. And yet everything is fleshed out just enough. You want worldbuilding? Tons of it, Australian refugees, UPP, Gateway UA training camp. You want decent and intense action for a change? Say no more. Want some horror and tense moments without the rifles? You have that too. Engaging marine pov? Hell yeah. Not just Russian UPPs again? You got the Chinese pov finally. A look at a pirate's/smuggler's life? You got it. Aliens handled with dignity? Certainly. WY people having more than one brain cell and not being cartoonishly evil? Now we're talking.
So much stuff happens it feels like a rollercoaster ride. A fun one. Easily in my top 5, hope we see the author return.
It just feels a lot more fun and intense and a lot more was happening than in the recent books, it just felt very different. Maybe because I was expecting such a trainwreck, I got pleasantly surprised when this wasn't Colony War all over again.
And I'm saying this as someone who puts the Alex White novels at the top, followed by Phalanx. Really was surprised with Echo, really liked Out of the Shadows in spite of Ripley, Sea of Sorrows, enjoyed good bits of the Rage War Trilogy (even though I hated the Rage themselves and the portrayal of the Aliens...).
All that is fine.. but it doesn't make the book any more interesting.. or any less boring. And somebody else in this thread said it best.. it undermines the events in Alien 3.
The undermining of Alien 3 is valid. Though less than ACM did with Hicks and A:R did with bringing back Ripley. Bishop is a synth, he was just hoping he wouldn't be found in the trash, but Ripley's obviously bad at hide and seek. Reactivating him isn't the worst course of logic the EU has done in recent years.
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 20, 2024, 09:17:32 PMQuote from: Xiggz456 on Feb 20, 2024, 03:56:59 PMGreat review! Agreed on all points!
Amazon's aggregate review is 4.3/5 and Goodreads aggregate is 4/5 so even though the reviews here on AVPG are split between loving and hating the book, the majority of readers seemed to have enjoyed it.
Colony War has a 4.3 on Amazon. So I guess it must be good.
Yeah, I get that with scores you can't be certain of anything. It is anecdotal, but with Colony War I noticed either people in the bigger, more causal fan groups either not talking about it or hating it extremely. With this book I've seen multiple people on different groups like it. So I have a feeling it's better received than Colony War.
And the author did say that Fox/Titan was very happy with the novel. And I've never heard that about Colony War...
Again, I know, we don't have the big picture. I know we won't see it, but I'd love to know how well did these books sell. Which ones sold better, which ones sold worse etc.
I might be more concerned about undermining Alien 3's ending if Alien 3 didn't undermine Aliens' ending first.
Anyone who loves Alien 3 for being so grimdark and nihilistic should also love a sequel in which Ripley's sacrifice is shortly thereafter rendered ultimately meaningless.
Just own it, edgelords.
People who think Alien 3 supports nihilism are media illiterate.
The very antithesis of the thing you hold dear.
All Right Fincherholics! come here to fight for Alien³ >:(✊️
Edit - except me cos I'm just a pleb who loves orange soda :'(👉👈
(https://s9.gifyu.com/images/SF9DQ.gif)
Quote from: SiL on Feb 21, 2024, 01:17:17 AMPeople who think Alien 3 supports nihilism are media illiterate.
You so real for this.
David Fincher and fans of his movies who miss the point: name a more iconic duo.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 21, 2024, 01:17:17 AMPeople who think Alien 3 supports nihilism are media illiterate.
Well, the RPG says that the Dragon managed to construct a small hive, with Andrews, Boggs and Rains being turned into Ovomorphs.
So, Ripley basically died for nothing - oh, sorry, nihil.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Feb 21, 2024, 10:06:08 AMWell, the RPG says that the Dragon managed to construct a small hive, with Andrews, Boggs and Rains being turned into Ovomorphs.
What does this have to do with what
Alien3 itself says?
QuoteSo, Ripley basically died for nothing - oh, sorry, nihil.
That's ... not what nihilism is?
Nihilism isn't acknowledging the universe is apathetic, nihilism is about what you do with this information.
Alien3 says nihilism is for losers and we must not abandon our moral and religious principles in the face of a meaningless universe.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 21, 2024, 10:12:18 AMWhat does this have to do with what Alien3 itself says?
That's ... not what nihilism is?
Nihilism isn't acknowledging the universe is apathetic, nihilism is about what you do with this information.
Alien3 says nihilism is for losers and we must not abandon our moral and religious principles in the face of a meaningless universe.
Yup. And that message is delivered in the form of Ripley making the ultimate sacrifice to do what's right. But was it worth it? Not according to the RPG which, depending on your interpretation of canon, nullifies Ripley's actions. It's even logical if you think about it; did Ripley ever consider what the Dragon was doing with the bodies it abducted?
True, the film on its own is not nihilistic; if anything, that prestige goes to
Covenant. The ultimate takeaway from that film - Paradise is lost.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Feb 21, 2024, 10:20:18 AMYup. And that message is delivered in the form of Ripley making the ultimate sacrifice to do what's right. But was it worth it?
Whether it's "worth it" or not is entirely irrelevant.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Feb 21, 2024, 02:26:56 AMAll Right Fincherholics! come here to fight for Alien³ >:(✊️
Edit - except me cos I'm just a pleb who loves orange soda :'(👉👈
https://s9.gifyu.com/images/SF9DQ.gif
Oh, is it that time again?
The people who don't like Alien 3 won't stop bashing the film, while people who love the film or think it's good will forever defend it.
(and these are clearly the ones who are right, we all know that)
:D
Erhmegerd.. like.. who cares? I love me some Alien 3, I also recognize its flaws and stuff, and it does have some moments that come across a little nihilistic, but overall, it's not, because the ending relays hope.
Hmm it's also why some expanded stuff bugs me.
I would love for a sequel to Alien 3 to show us that Ripley sacrificed herself for nothing if only so everyone who celebrated the pointless deaths of Hicks and Newt can see what it's like. Then I could say:
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExYnVmcjVudjV3Z3Z5czA4cTRsaWZrY3NkaWc1bXI5Z2pyYmc2YzlidyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/uUIFcDYRbvJTtxaFNa/giphy.gif)
Does Resurrection not exist? I do not let it bother me though.
Resurrection respects the sacrifice by having her wipe out the species for all intents and purposes and making them resort to f**kery to bring it back.
True enough.
Also the Alien took twenty years in real world time to make it back to the silver screen.
Resurrection 1997, Covenant 2017, no the AVPs do not count. Same with Predator actually. Predator 2 1990 and Predators 2010.
Every piece of post Alien 3 EU : I told you, you ain't saving no universe, sister. lol lmao
I appreciate with most of the videogame entries, well the recent ones, they have made an effort to not step on that as much. In Isolation and Dark Descent particularly. The former by being pretty insular, the latter by basically
Spoiler
sacrificing a more developed world than ever before, because they came from beneath the earth itself.
the first script draft of a4 was without ripley.
But the studio didn't have the balls to carry on without her.
I liked enough things in A4 but if I had had something to say the series would have continued after A3 with other characters.
As an alien fan you have to get used to the fact that many of the victims in this story are completely pointless.
Ripley probably knew at the end of A3 that WY would continue to search for these creatures in space.
But she had no choice and couldn't trust that she would be saved.
Quote from: Neila on Feb 22, 2024, 09:40:38 AMthe first script draft of a4 was without ripley.
But the studio didn't have the balls to carry on without her.
I liked enough things in A4 but if I had had something to say the series would have continued after A3 with other characters.
As an alien fan you have to get used to the fact that many of the victims in this story are completely pointless.
Ripley probably knew at the end of A3 that WY would continue to search for these creatures in space.
But she had no choice and couldn't trust that she would be saved.
That's why we have books! Novels that absolutely make Alien 3's ending ultimately meaningless.
Alternate continuity.
Quote from: Neila on Feb 22, 2024, 09:40:38 AMthe first script draft of a4 was without ripley.
But the studio didn't have the balls to carry on without her.
I liked enough things in A4 but if I had had something to say the series would have continued after A3 with other characters.
As an alien fan you have to get used to the fact that many of the victims in this story are completely pointless.
Ripley probably knew at the end of A3 that WY would continue to search for these creatures in space.
But she had no choice and couldn't trust that she would be saved.
Ripley's place in the story for Aliens and then Alien 3 made her being a victim not pointless however.
I'm seeing many parallels with Uncle Bob's sacrifice at the end of T2.
At least, it might have given humanity an extended period of time before Judgment Day (which still happened in all the sequels).
Maybe Ripley also bought some time.
200 years worth.
Or about two weeks if you go by this book...
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Mar 02, 2024, 10:27:13 AMOr about two weeks if you go by this book...
Or none if you go by the RPG.
Less than none if you go by some sources.
What's infinity inverted?
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 22, 2024, 10:28:50 AMQuote from: Neila on Feb 22, 2024, 09:40:38 AMthe first script draft of a4 was without ripley.
But the studio didn't have the balls to carry on without her.
I liked enough things in A4 but if I had had something to say the series would have continued after A3 with other characters.
As an alien fan you have to get used to the fact that many of the victims in this story are completely pointless.
Ripley probably knew at the end of A3 that WY would continue to search for these creatures in space.
But she had no choice and couldn't trust that she would be saved.
That's why we have books! Novels that absolutely make Alien 3's ending ultimately meaningless.
Alternate continuity.
Frankly I'm not that bothered by her sacrifice being rendered moot. The point is that she fought and died for what she believed in, she felt like she was making a difference even if in the broader cold, uncaring universe it didn't matter. Just like Newt says in 'Aliens': "it's not going to matter."
The sequels, at their core, are about it not mattering. In 'Alien', the Company sentences an innocent crew of truckers to their deaths and (if 'Aliens' is anything to go by) they got away with it. None of it mattered.
In 'Aliens', despite Ripley blowing the Alien out the airlock and leaving the planet behind, a colony got set up there anyway, Burke sentenced the colony to die, and even though Ripley blew the whole thing up and ejected the Queen out the airlock...
'Alien3' happens and everyone she loved dies and there are still Aliens (including one inside her!). None of 'Aliens' mattered.
And then in the fourth movie, despite her best efforts up to and including killing herself, someone *still* got more Aliens out of the whole affair. In the grand scheme of it all, none of it mattered.
What mattered were the individual sacrifices and character journeys and little (if temporary) victories. That's what matters. Ripley did it, she stood up to the Company (repeatedly) and made the ultimate sacrifice to do what was right.
Like, at the risk of getting political, would you tell an American World War II veteran who fought and sacrificed to oppose the Nazi regime that in the 2020s there would be honest to god Nazi rallies on American soil and an entire political party would be actively pushing fascist and authoritarian rhetoric daily and therefore his sacrifices didn't matter?
And inverting that would make it definite.
Quote from: SM on Mar 05, 2024, 07:11:23 AMAnd inverting that would make it definite.
Definitely
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 05, 2024, 04:47:27 AMQuote from: xShadowFoxX on Feb 22, 2024, 10:28:50 AMQuote from: Neila on Feb 22, 2024, 09:40:38 AMthe first script draft of a4 was without ripley.
But the studio didn't have the balls to carry on without her.
I liked enough things in A4 but if I had had something to say the series would have continued after A3 with other characters.
As an alien fan you have to get used to the fact that many of the victims in this story are completely pointless.
Ripley probably knew at the end of A3 that WY would continue to search for these creatures in space.
But she had no choice and couldn't trust that she would be saved.
That's why we have books! Novels that absolutely make Alien 3's ending ultimately meaningless.
Alternate continuity.
Frankly I'm not that bothered by her sacrifice being rendered moot. The point is that she fought and died for what she believed in, she felt like she was making a difference even if in the broader cold, uncaring universe it didn't matter. Just like Newt says in 'Aliens': "it's not going to matter."
The sequels, at their core, are about it not mattering. In 'Alien', the Company sentences an innocent crew of truckers to their deaths and (if 'Aliens' is anything to go by) they got away with it. None of it mattered.
In 'Aliens', despite Ripley blowing the Alien out the airlock and leaving the planet behind, a colony got set up there anyway, Burke sentenced the colony to die, and even though Ripley blew the whole thing up and ejected the Queen out the airlock...
'Alien3' happens and everyone she loved dies and there are still Aliens (including one inside her!). None of 'Aliens' mattered.
And then in the fourth movie, despite her best efforts up to and including killing herself, someone *still* got more Aliens out of the whole affair. In the grand scheme of it all, none of it mattered.
What mattered were the individual sacrifices and character journeys and little (if temporary) victories. That's what matters. Ripley did it, she stood up to the Company (repeatedly) and made the ultimate sacrifice to do what was right.
Like, at the risk of getting political, would you tell an American World War II veteran who fought and sacrificed to oppose the Nazi regime that in the 2020s there would be honest to god Nazi rallies on American soil and an entire political party would be actively pushing fascist and authoritarian rhetoric daily and therefore his sacrifices didn't matter?
You say temporary victories but then in the context of the novels and other expanded media, there are no victories because the company already has these Aliens.
I do agree tho. Like I do like my universe uncaring and amoral, but I also like it empty, because there's something more terrifying and interesting about that. And then you remind me that Resurrection is so far removed by hundreds of years that it actually works (albeit in a very weird way), that it doesn't make the sacrifice in A3 moot because of all the steps they had to take. (Again, weird).
And then we go into the books and comics that are, at this point, just fun to read in an alternate continuity sort of way because of how egregious these incidents are, either simultaneously or one after the other, that they just feel kind of disjointed from one another and the films.
https://twitter.com/BossRushNetwork/status/1768517696596148608
Must be a slow year.
I'd have wanted to have seen Alex White's novels or Phalanx take some awards, but I still really enjoyed Bishop and I'm glad to see the expanded universe receiving critical recognition.
It's a pretty good story, the author managed to shove it between the parts.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 19, 2023, 01:10:26 PMWhere did you see that?
Also, why is Titan trying to turn the Alien universe into a soap opera of half a dozen closely connected families?
Name recognition equals $$$. I fear this trend is only going to spread. It was why initially I was not interested in Alien: Isolation. I suppose we have no choice but to accept it.. *looks for some black goo.*
I'm sure Hudson will be high on the upcoming project's list.
Quote from: Wweyland on Mar 26, 2024, 01:50:34 PMI'm sure Hudson will be high on the upcoming project's list.
I bet it'll be called Aliens: Eight Weeks. Since he said eight weeks and he was out of the Marine Core.
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 26, 2024, 03:27:14 PMI bet it'll be called Aliens: Eight Weeks. Since he said eight weeks and he was out of the Marine Core.
Nah, it's gonna be
State of the Badass Art.
Or Aliens: Game Over
:D
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 26, 2024, 03:51:15 PMOr Aliens: Game Over
:D
Or,
Express Elevator to Hell!Or, more likely,
Aliens: Hudson.
Aliens: Anytime, Anywhere
Aliens: I'm On It
Aliens: This Aint Happening!
:D
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 26, 2024, 04:07:23 PMAliens: Anytime, Anywhere
Aliens: I'm On It
Aliens: This Aint Happening!
:D
A trilogy huh ?
(https://y.yarn.co/2dc8a842-085a-4136-b036-f837095fae28_text.gif)
Just realized those titles sound suggestive. :laugh:
But they are Hudson lines. XD
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 26, 2024, 03:27:14 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Mar 26, 2024, 01:50:34 PMI'm sure Hudson will be high on the upcoming project's list.
I bet it'll be called Aliens: Eight Weeks. Since he said eight weeks and he was out of the Marine Core.
* Four
* Corps
Quote from: SM on Mar 26, 2024, 09:24:34 PMQuote from: E. Shaw on Mar 26, 2024, 03:27:14 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Mar 26, 2024, 01:50:34 PMI'm sure Hudson will be high on the upcoming project's list.
I bet it'll be called Aliens: Eight Weeks. Since he said eight weeks and he was out of the Marine Core.
* Four
* Corps
Your right. I added four more weeks lol. XD
It would probably be Aliens: Ultimate Badass
Vasquez would have a name for the book, Aliens: Jerk***
Would it be about Hudson's sister? Or maybe he survived?
Quote from: Wweyland on Mar 27, 2024, 07:44:58 AMWould it be about Hudson's sister? Or maybe he survived?
Would be wild if Hudson got free from the Hive and got as far away from Hadley's Hope and then went to The Derelict.
Somehow, Hudson survived.
Quote from: Wweyland on Mar 30, 2024, 09:35:43 PMSomehow, Hudson survived.
Would be poetic since he eas the one who feared the Xenos most. Everyone else died who seemed calm about it in comparison to Hudson losing his Shish kebab.
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 30, 2024, 09:11:28 PMWould be wild if Hudson got free from the Hive and got as far away from Hadley's Hope and then went to The Derelict.
Which wouldn't have been useful to him, considering that the Derelict was also obliterated.
You sure about that?
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Mar 31, 2024, 09:43:06 AMQuote from: E. Shaw on Mar 30, 2024, 09:11:28 PMWould be wild if Hudson got free from the Hive and got as far away from Hadley's Hope and then went to The Derelict.
Which wouldn't have been useful to him, considering that the Derelict was also obliterated.
In The Director's Cut there is a discussion that the Derelict is far from Hadley's Hope, with one guy saying to a Manager, "you know that couple / yahoos you sent out into middle of nowhere?" And they discuss a grid reference. I assumed it was far on the outskirts of Hadley's Hope, maybe on the other side of the planet.
Resurrection novel and Weyland-Yutani Report say it got blowed up.
YMMV.
Quote from: SM on Mar 31, 2024, 10:24:24 PMResurrection novel and Weyland-Yutani Report say it got blowed up.
YMMV.
Not that Weyland-Yutani would lie...
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 08, 2014, 05:37:59 PMPretty sure SM has already ruled on this. No way Ripley leaves orbit without making sure the derelict was obliterated.
Just realized The Director's Cut diminishes The Queen. Having the Derelict present with thousands of eggs aboard makes having a egg laying Queen less necessary.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 06, 2024, 09:02:50 AMBonus points if the colony logs said as much. More bonus points if the colonists set explosive charges and blew up the derelict along with any remaining eggs out of an abundance of caution.
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 31, 2024, 10:52:10 PMJust realized The Director's Cut diminishes The Queen. Having the Derelict present with thousands of eggs aboard makes having a egg laying Queen less necessary.
The Queen explains how you get thousands of eggs to put on a ship in the first place.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 31, 2024, 11:41:18 PMQuote from: E. Shaw on Mar 31, 2024, 10:52:10 PMJust realized The Director's Cut diminishes The Queen. Having the Derelict present with thousands of eggs aboard makes having a egg laying Queen less necessary.
The Queen explains how you get thousands of eggs to put on a ship in the first place.
Hmmm.. so you think she laid the eggs on The Derelict?
I just assumed she was hatched under the Cooling Towers in The Hive; mainly due to the Theatrical Cut is what I watched for a long time.
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 31, 2024, 10:52:10 PMJust realized The Director's Cut diminishes The Queen. Having the Derelict present with thousands of eggs aboard makes having a egg laying Queen less necessary.
If the Directors Cut diminishes the Queen, then the Theatrical Cut is no different.
Quote from: SM on Apr 01, 2024, 12:05:57 AMQuote from: E. Shaw on Mar 31, 2024, 10:52:10 PMJust realized The Director's Cut diminishes The Queen. Having the Derelict present with thousands of eggs aboard makes having a egg laying Queen less necessary.
If the Directors Cut diminishes the Queen, then the Theatrical Cut is no different.
It differs in that a ship full of eggs makes a Queen pointless; why have her lay egs if thousand already are waiting? But now that you mention Ripley confronts Burke about him sending Hadley's colonists to the ship in both versions. So technically its an issue in both versions, but the Director's Cut has the visuals of the Derelicy which stirs the memory of Ripley saying, "Kane said that there was thousands of eggs there."
Quote from: E. Shaw on Apr 01, 2024, 12:04:18 AMHmmm.. so you think she laid the eggs on The Derelict?
No, the eggs in the derelict are much older than the Queen. But the eggs had to come from somewhere originally -- a Queen Alien was the film's answer. Not
that exact Queen, but some other, earlier Queen.
Quotewhy have her lay egs if thousand already are waiting?
Because eventually those eggs would get used up and need replacing, or the entire species would end.
This is a very odd line of thinking.
Quote from: E. Shaw on Apr 01, 2024, 12:11:09 AMQuote from: SM on Apr 01, 2024, 12:05:57 AMQuote from: E. Shaw on Mar 31, 2024, 10:52:10 PMJust realized The Director's Cut diminishes The Queen. Having the Derelict present with thousands of eggs aboard makes having a egg laying Queen less necessary.
If the Directors Cut diminishes the Queen, then the Theatrical Cut is no different.
It differs in that a ship full of eggs makes a Queen pointless; why have her lay egs if thousand already are waiting? But now that you mention Ripley confronts Burke about him sending Hadley's colonists to the ship in both versions. So technically its an issue in both versions, but the Director's Cut has the visuals of the Derelicy which stirs the memory of Ripley saying, "Kane said that there was thousands of eggs there."
It's really not an issue in either. Yes, in both versions they found the Derelict otherwise the film can't happen, but one Alien that got birthed was a Queen and they set up shop in the AP station. Not sure what's getting diminished.
I find they're complimentary. The number of eggs on the derelict highlights the danger of having a living Queen around -- she's going to leave that number of eggs if she's not taken out of the picture soon.
Basically, the derelict was close enough to be destroyed by the AP explosion, but also far enough that it would have been impractical for the aliens to use as a nest. They needed an egg layer somewhere at the colony in order to infest the place.
I maintain the derelict eggs were already mostly nonviable from the damage to the ship, agree to disagree me.
Or exposure to the elements after the hold was damaged. It's possible that the blue stasis field thingamajig was only still functioning around a small cache of surviving eggs by the time Russ got clamped.
Either way, the derelict would have made a poor nest for the aliens.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 01, 2024, 12:47:03 AMOr exposure to the elements after the hold was damaged. It's possible that the blue stasis field thingamajig was only still functioning around a small cache of surviving eggs by the time Russ got clamped.
It was only over one section of the eggs as it was. The others might well have been dead by the time Kane got there.
You're really driving a stake through the idea that the derelict may have been a viable source of eggs after Aliens.
Lambert: What happened to the rest of the crew?
(https://i.ibb.co/MN8ZDMY/Eggmorph02.jpg)
It's impossible to know if there was a crew on the Derelict, but there's a chilling feeling behind the idea that the eggs were the so called crew after experiencing eggmorphing. :o
(https://i.ibb.co/nm6J9VJ/Alien-Egg-Chamber-John-Hurt.jpg)
Honestly...I prefer that to the thousands of people from the Covenant ship. It gives a sense of cosmic horror to the thing.:P
Assuming it had a crew beyond David in the jockey suit.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 01, 2024, 02:49:15 AMLambert: What happened to the rest of the crew?
(https://i.ibb.co/MN8ZDMY/Eggmorph02.jpg)
It's impossible to know if there was a crew on the Derelict, but there's a chilling feeling behind the idea that the eggs were the so called crew after experiencing eggmorphing. :o
(https://i.ibb.co/nm6J9VJ/Alien-Egg-Chamber-John-Hurt.jpg)
Honestly...I prefer that to the thousands of people from the Covenant ship. It gives a sense of cosmic horror to the thing.:P
Me too! I always thought that the Eggsof the Derelict were its' Eggmorphed crew. I never liked the idea of the Queen, I loved the design of it though. I also didn't like the hivemind ideas.
At the time 'Alien' was made, it's absolutely clear that the eggs were intended to originate from the derelict occupants. Lamberts throwaway "I wonder what happened to the rest of the crew" line, the fact that everything we see on the derelict foreshadows what will happen on the Nostromo; the hole in the Jockey's rib cage burst outwards (as per Kane), the acid burn on the floor by the Jockey (as per the Nostromo infirmary when Ash attempts to remove the hugger), and at the time of filming, the egg morphing scene, which shows what happens to the crew the Alien takes.. basically the Nostromo was becoming the next derelict, a ghost ship that could later be discovered with several eggs in the lower decks, had Ripley not detonated the engines.
The queen is absolutely unnecessary, and the alien was a better creature without it.
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Apr 01, 2024, 06:31:31 AMAt the time 'Alien' was made, it's absolutely clear that the eggs were intended to originate from the derelict occupants.
Didn't Ridley say on more than one occasion that the derelict was transporting the eggs for use as a biological weapon?
That doesn't sound like an alien unexpectedly got loose and turned the entire crew into eggs during the ship's journey.
Scott referred to it as a bomber.
I could be wrong on this one, but didn't all Ridley's comments about it being a bomber come in interviews much later? I seem to recall it being tied to comments he made about how none of the other movies explored the Jockey/derelict and how he thought that was a more interesting direction to take the story (this was years before Prometheus) - or am I remembering multiple interviews and combining them into one? 😅
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Apr 01, 2024, 07:34:51 AMI could be wrong on this one, but didn't all Ridley's comments about it being a bomber come in interviews much later? I seem to recall it being tied to comments he made about how none of the other movies explored the Jockey/derelict and how he thought that was a more interesting direction to take the story (this was years before Prometheus) - or am I remembering multiple interviews and combining them into one? 😅
He's been calling it that since not long after the film came out.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 01, 2024, 07:07:11 AMQuote from: Acid_Reign161 on Apr 01, 2024, 06:31:31 AMAt the time 'Alien' was made, it's absolutely clear that the eggs were intended to originate from the derelict occupants.
Didn't Ridley say on more than one occasion that the derelict was transporting the eggs for use as a biological weapon?
That doesn't sound like an alien unexpectedly got loose and turned the entire crew into eggs during the ship's journey.
I can recall his bomber comments in later interviews, but it never held much water to me... the derelict as a bomber holding pathogen vases, sure, that works (and looked awesome in Covenant. But how the hell do you bomb a planet with eggs? You could *despoit* eggs, but aside from getting splashed with acid upon impact, not sure what good 'bombing'a planet with eggs would do. I mean, it could be argued that it's a bomber as per the pathogen vases, that something got out and this was the end result (eggs weren't intended as the actual weapon) but I never truly cared for the biological weapon explanation; I always felt it works better with the xeno being as old as time, it infects unsuspecting passers by, it reproduces, eggs lay dormant for centuries until the next unlucky victim discovers them, and the cycle continues... it lays in wait and leapfrogs through time/across space, spreading. The thought that these things are just laying waiting in the deepest darkest corners of the universe is more horrifying than 'pet science project' (imo) 😅
Well, they were originally supposed to be found in this rather than the derelict.
(https://i.imgur.com/Bhp9TGr.jpeg)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 01, 2024, 07:55:26 AMWell, they were originally supposed to be found in this rather than the derelict.
(https://i.imgur.com/Bhp9TGr.jpeg)
Yes, and the derelict was originally going to be 'parked' on top of the underground structure, suggesting the Jockeys as more explorers who found the eggs as I recall. All Ridley's bomber comments came post-release, which is why I still feel that during production, egg morphing was the working narrative with the idea being the eggs were what remains of the derelict crew.
The only thing that may support an early bomber concept that I can see (or, perhaps inspired Ridley to start thinking that way afterwards); was Giger's image of the Alien lifecycle mural; its framed by an interpretation of Nuit (Goddess of the Night) with the egg spawning from her stomach ...and from a top view, the Derelict does resemble Nuit somewhat. [edit: which is interesting food for thought, I recall there was much discussion when the juggernaut was seen to fly 'backwards' from what we presumed in 'Prometheus' - would be interesting if Giger had actually intended it to fly with the entrances pointing downwards as if it were hanging, looking like the goddess of the night in the sky) 😅
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/64/62/71/6462712bcad815b977ea0dbe211b5c4a.jpg)
Let's just wait and see what SM has to say about this! >:(
The derelict and pyramid underwent multiple variations, including being entirely human in origin at one point. All versions of the script which stated or suggested an origin for the eggs had them being a stockpile, not the remains of the crew.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 01, 2024, 08:59:51 AMThe derelict and pyramid underwent multiple variations, including being entirely human in origin at one point. All versions of the script which stated or suggested an origin for the eggs had them being a stockpile, not the remains of the crew.
But is it fair to suggest that, since the script went through so many changes, the fact that the eggmorphing scene was not only scripted but went beyond concept and was actually filmed and intended to be in the movie prior to tightening it up for theatrical release (thus superseding all other ideas/suggestions/concepts up until that point) and was only disregarded at the point of being edited, then it's fair to say that during filming, that was the intended origin of the eggs? Everything we see on the Nostromo reiterates what was seen on the derelict. The egg morph scene served a purpose, as did Lamberts line as set up for said scene. The movie shows (or was going to show) how an alien made eggs/reproduced. Therefore, the eggs in the derelict were once organisms. Without the benefit of sequel knowledge as an audience, if you'd only ever seen the directors cut, I think the narrative is quite clear.
@Acid_Reign161 Egg morphing, like the Queen in
Aliens, only tells us how eggs are made. That doesn't mean those specific eggs were (just) the crew. After all, an Alien had to get on the ship in the first place. It makes a lot of sense that an Alien escaped from the stockpile of eggs, rather than the stockpile of eggs was made after the fact. The blue laser also suggests these eggs are a stockpile from another source, not (just) the crew.
I say "Just" because it's entirely possible some of the crew are down there. It's just not going to count for all of them.
The Engineer pyramid actually makes an appearance in Building Better Worlds.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 01, 2024, 08:06:54 AMLet's just wait and see what SM has to say about this! >:(
I don't even know what the conversation's about.
Quote from: SM on Apr 01, 2024, 11:58:36 AMI don't even know what the conversation's about.
Egg silos and pyramids. Keep up!
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Apr 01, 2024, 06:31:31 AMAt the time 'Alien' was made, it's absolutely clear that the eggs were intended to originate from the derelict occupants. Lamberts throwaway "I wonder what happened to the rest of the crew" line, the fact that everything we see on the derelict foreshadows what will happen on the Nostromo; the hole in the Jockey's rib cage burst outwards (as per Kane), the acid burn on the floor by the Jockey (as per the Nostromo infirmary when Ash attempts to remove the hugger), and at the time of filming, the egg morphing scene, which shows what happens to the crew the Alien takes.. basically the Nostromo was becoming the next derelict, a ghost ship that could later be discovered with several eggs in the lower decks, had Ripley not detonated the engines.
The queen is absolutely unnecessary, and the alien was a better creature without it.
;D👍I like the queen, but I must agree. The original concept is scarier(https://s12.gifyu.com/images/SVCbg.gif)
....but yeah, that blue mist-laser thing :'(
Counter argument on the blue laser;
What if the eggs weren't stored there, but were placed beneath the blue laser by an alien as one of the last functional areas of the ship, since Xenomorph prefer hot tropical temperatures for their young. We cant actually be sure they were the ships cargo.
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Apr 01, 2024, 06:28:00 PMCounter argument on the blue laser;
What if the eggs weren't stored there, but were placed beneath the blue laser by an alien as one of the last functional areas of the ship, since Xenomorph prefer hot tropical temperatures for their young. We cant actually be sure they were the ships cargo.
The laser reacts when broken, like an alarm. The eggs are under the alarm. Looks to me like the alarm is there to warn if something gets out from under it.
The whole hold is warm, not just the area under the laser.
But for me the most compelling argument is sheer numbers. There are thousands of eggs and the derelict isn't that big. There's no way there were that many crew on board.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 01, 2024, 07:27:07 PMQuote from: Acid_Reign161 on Apr 01, 2024, 06:28:00 PMCounter argument on the blue laser;
What if the eggs weren't stored there, but were placed beneath the blue laser by an alien as one of the last functional areas of the ship, since Xenomorph prefer hot tropical temperatures for their young. We cant actually be sure they were the ships cargo.
The laser reacts when broken, like an alarm. The eggs are under the alarm. Looks to me like the alarm is there to warn if something gets out from under it.
The whole hold is warm, not just the area under the laser.
But for me the most compelling argument is sheer numbers. There are thousands of eggs and the derelict isn't that big. There's no way there were that many crew on board.
I love that laser light sensor.
Quote from: E. Shaw on Apr 01, 2024, 08:28:24 PMI love that laser light sensor.
According to
Building Better Worlds, it plays a musical note when disturbed. We don't hear it in
Alien because there's no air in the hold.
We absolutely hear it make a sound, and there is air in the hold.
Or is that a comment on how poorly written that resource is?
Quote from: SiL on Apr 01, 2024, 08:58:19 PMWe absolutely hear it make a sound
No, that's just feedback on the radio.
It's the sound of the laser being broken. It modulates as Kane interacts with it and he says "It seems to react when broken".
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Apr 01, 2024, 08:38:08 PMQuote from: E. Shaw on Apr 01, 2024, 08:28:24 PMI love that laser light sensor.
According to Building Better Worlds, it plays a musical note when disturbed. We don't hear it in Alien because there's no air in the hold.
I know what it says, "You are a good egg, yes you are." :D
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Apr 01, 2024, 08:38:08 PMQuote from: E. Shaw on Apr 01, 2024, 08:28:24 PMI love that laser light sensor.
According to Building Better Worlds, it plays a musical note when disturbed. We don't hear it in Alien because there's no air in the hold.
But we can hear it in Alien and see an atmosphere because of the laser.
The planet has an atmosphere and the ship isn't sealed. There's plenty of air down there.
Quote from: SM on Apr 01, 2024, 09:55:13 PMBut we can hear it in Alien and see an atmosphere because of the laser.
More to the point, we see the laser because there's an atmosphere.
Was there any humidity or condensation from the eggs to contribute to make the laser visible?
Probably. There's those upward drips when Kane examines an egg.
"It's like the Goddamn tropics in here" implied heat and humidity.
That's right, I'm surprised the crew didn't thought to question that more, but I guess they had more pressing priorities.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Apr 01, 2024, 09:02:34 PMQuote from: SiL on Apr 01, 2024, 08:58:19 PMWe absolutely hear it make a sound
No, that's just feedback on the radio.
You're getting things mixed up. That reference in BBW is a nod to Alien, exactly what SiL says, we do hear the sound. It's not radio. It reacts acoustically only when the light sensor field is being passed through.
And by the way to everyone else, what the hell is this blasphemy against the Queen I'm hearing recently? Without the Queen, without Aliens, we wouldn't be talking about this on such a forum. The success and scale of the franchise would be much smaller if only Alien was made or we didn't have a sequel just as good to rival it.
The Queen is awesome, disturbing and truly alien. I love eggmorphing and I love the Queen. Both can exist complementary. But having the Alien as originally intended, with no Queen and having a super short lifecycle? Less interesting and a lot less deadly. Then having so many eggs on the Derelict wouldn't even make sense IMO.
I like my cosmic horror in Alien. But this isn't the Lovecraft verse. Alien is more science fiction than space magic. It's not an indestructible ghost. It's a horrific creature that's dangerous because even one can spawn thousands, if not more. Even one can infect everything. Can't really see that without the additions of Aliens and Alien 3. It's not a mystic force, it's the ultimate macro virus. The threat was always not letting them amass more numbers and getting them near more populated areas.
The number of the eggs on the Derelict shows this threat perfectly. There can be so many of them. Alien shows us what one can do alone. Leaving the question open as to what could a flood of them do? Aliens shows us what a swarm can do and how we got so many eggs. And that was less than 200 Aliens. We have less than 20 confirmed Aliens being killed. Heaven forbid what would happen if a more populated colony or small Earth town was infected.
What's truly alien about an egg laying queen in an insect hive?
I like the Queen but she's very terrestrial.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 01, 2024, 10:42:29 PM"It's like the Goddamn tropics in here" implied heat and humidity.
And you can see perspiration on the Egg Kane approaches.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 01, 2024, 10:08:14 PMThe planet has an atmosphere and the ship isn't sealed. There's plenty of air down there.
Quote from: SM on Apr 01, 2024, 09:55:13 PMBut we can hear it in Alien and see an atmosphere because of the laser.
More to the point, we see the laser because there's an atmosphere.
Even more to the point, Ash tells Dallas the composition of the planet's atmosphere. It couldn't be more on the nose.
Ash also says it's "deep cold", which the Derelict hold isn't. Not unreasonable to assume the atmosphere might be different.
Either way, the derelict had an atmosphere and the planet had an atmosphere. In fact, it's possible that the AP wouldn't work without a pre-existing atmosphere to process. Like Van Leuwen said, they "make the air breathable."
Quite.
Sounds like that Building Better Worlds resource is wrong.
Uh-oh
This would be unsurprising.
@Xenomrph Can you make it fit?
Quote from: SiL on Apr 02, 2024, 12:54:02 AMSounds like that Building Better Worlds resource is wrong.
Have you read my previous comment? What Badger believes about there being no atmosphere in the Derelict has nothing to do with the Building Better Worlds book. Just like I said already. We shouldn't judge a piece of media without seeing it for ourselves. Criticizing something without a good understanding of a subject based on our own biases isn't really productive IMO.
I made the same mistake with Aliens Bishop, because of the first few opinions, I thought it can't be good, but after reading it for myself, I loved it. I almost missed out on a joyful read because of that. But even more sadly, I joined the bashing of the book without reading it first. It's one thing to not want to read something cause of someone's opinion/review, but it's another thing to criticize something that I haven't experienced honestly.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Apr 03, 2024, 11:03:14 PMHave you read my previous comment? What Badger believes about there being no atmosphere in the Derelict has nothing to do with the Building Better Worlds book. Just like I said already.
That got lost in your ensuing rant about the Queen Alien, sorry.
So the book just mentions the tone and Slutty added completely inaccurate commentary from misremembering the scene; got it.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Apr 03, 2024, 11:03:14 PMJust like I said already. We shouldn't judge a piece of media without seeing it for ourselves. Criticizing something without a good understanding of a subject based on our own biases isn't really productive IMO.
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 26, 2021, 10:03:01 PMI've always said it: you can tell if a book will be any good or not just by the cover art.
I'm gonna buy this book and like it just to f**k with people.
It's a good book! Nothing to f**k with.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 04, 2024, 12:08:54 AMSo the book just mentions the tone
BBW also mentions that the mist gives off an electric shock when touched. Given that Kane is wearing a suit, that clearly doesn't affect him, but it still looks to me that the sharp squeal is feedback from electrical interference rather than the actual musical tone. Exposure to the mist also causes hypoxia which, again, doesn't affect Kane since he's in a suit.
It's also important to note that the example given in
BBW occurs in a fully breathable atmosphere without the need for suits.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Apr 04, 2024, 09:20:40 AMBBW also mentions that the mist gives off an electric shock when touched. Given that Kane is wearing a suit, that clearly doesn't affect him, but it still looks to me that the sharp squeal is feedback from electrical interference rather than the actual musical tone. Exposure to the mist also causes hypoxia.
If Kane's gloves are insulated to prevent shock then it's not going to interfere with his electronics.
The noise is the laser, always was.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 04, 2024, 01:35:20 AMI'm gonna buy this book and like it just to f**k with people.
Not long finished the audiobook. It's a pretty solid entry. Wasn't going to buy it but I might actually do it now.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 04, 2024, 08:52:48 AMIt's a good book! Nothing to f**k with.
The Aliens not being wiped out by the end f**ks with me.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 04, 2024, 08:52:47 AMIt's a good book! Nothing to f**k with.
It's good when Bishop is onscreen. It tanks when he isn't.
The food riot scene in Karri's flashback is alright - it definitely has shades of
Soylent Green, and Karri being unable to get medical or police help is somewhat reminiscent of
Elysium. But then "UUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" happens.
Not gonna lie, though, it would be clinically interesting to see Karri's reaction when the Colonial Marines bomb Canberra. How would she feel about the UA then?
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Apr 04, 2024, 07:36:59 PMNot gonna lie, though, it would be clinically interesting to see Karri's reaction when the Colonial Marines bomb Canberra. How would she feel about the UA then?
Would she care?