QuoteNeill Blomkamp's new Alien film won't be called Alien 5 - and it's been changed a little to avoid "bumping" Prometheus 2...
This story implies a spoiler for Alien 3.
Neill Blomkamp's proposed sequel to Alien has thrown up a degree of confusion over the past month or so. First of all, it was said that it was going to effectively sideline Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection, and pick up after James Cameron's Aliens. Then, Blomkamp himself distanced himself ever so slightly from those comments, instead insisting that due respect would be paid to the third and fourth Alien films.
Well, a little bit more information has come to light in the new issue of Empire magazine.
In it, Blomkamp confirms that original Alien director Ridley Scott will be producing the movie, and that it won't, in the words of the magazine, 'tread on the toes of Prometheus 2'. "I changed the one thing [Ridley Scott] felt was bumping Prometheus a little bit", Blomkamp confirmed.
Scott likes the idea of what Blomkamp has come up with for the new Alien film, the piece confirms, and the new movie won't be called Alien 5. In fact, Neill Blomkamp already has a title in mind. "It's kinda quite bold, but it gives away too much if I say the title", he teased. And as for where the film will sit in the series? It's still not entirely clear. "Where it went after Aliens to me, as a fan, was wrong". The new film will be "the triplet of the first two. There's a shitload missing as a fan that I would want to see".
The plot, then, thickens...
The full piece is in the new issue of Empire, that goes on sale later this week.
http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/alien/34632/alien-5-wont-tread-on-toes-of-prometheus-2#ixzz3V21yP7pW (http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/alien/34632/alien-5-wont-tread-on-toes-of-prometheus-2#ixzz3V21yP7pW)
Alien 3-2 I guess it is then. :laugh:
If I had to guess, I'd assume that the thing Scott requested Blomkamp change had something to do with the portrayal of the Derelict/Juggernaut that seems to play a role in the film.
Quote"It's kinda quite bold, but it gives away too much if I say the title"
Aliens: Rip-off ;)
Quote"The new film will be the triplet of the first two. There's a shitload missing as a fan that I would want to see"
I won't lie, this is exciting ;D
Let there be no more doubt that he is at least waying his words. He is no longer denying that he has something to hide about the concept. What that MISSING stuff is, be it b/w Alien 3 or simply the stuff the series never wrapped up, or possibly both...
I am interested in how his title will reveal something intricate and why he doesn't want it revealed. I mean, this is particularly strange because, that means this so called reveal is something he intends for audiences to know before the film comes out, just not yet.
That's very peculiar, no?
Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 21, 2015, 04:33:31 PM
Let there be no more doubt that he is at least waying his words. He is no longer denying that he has something to hide about the concept. What that MISSING stuff is, be it b/w Alien 3 or simply the stuff the series never wrapped up, or possibly both...
I am interested in how his title will reveal something intricate and why he doesn't want it revealed. I mean, this is particularly strange because, that means this so called reveal is something he intends for audiences to know before the film comes out, just not yet.
That's very peculiar, no?
Reminds me of something...
Kinda like how the sequel to Alien's title immediately gives away what the film is about. If he's able to recreate that, kudos to him.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 21, 2015, 02:48:51 PM
QuoteNeill Blomkamp's new Alien film won't be called Alien 5 - and it's been changed a little to avoid "bumping" Prometheus 2...
In it, Blomkamp confirms that original Alien director Ridley Scott will be producing the movie, and that it won't, in the words of the magazine, 'tread on the toes of Prometheus 2'. "I changed the one thing [Ridley Scott] felt was bumping Prometheus a little bit", Blomkamp confirmed.
quote]
http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/alien/34632/alien-5-wont-tread-on-toes-of-prometheus-2#ixzz3V21yP7pW (http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/alien/34632/alien-5-wont-tread-on-toes-of-prometheus-2#ixzz3V21yP7pW)
Perhaps he changed THIS:
l(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnerdist.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F01%2FXwtw5Ut.jpg&hash=127e4de38d4adf887dedc6f11e643f3ba27c941a)
This^^^^looks like it may tread on PROMETHEUS -
I had been meaning to start a new thread about this, but I have found it strange that no one picked up on the odd fact that this concept art refers to ripley's alien suit as 'THE PILOT and SPACE JOKEY SUIT'
Think about that because this suit is an ALIEN suit mixed with the Space Jockey suit. Not a 'SPACE JOCKEY' suit as all have been referring to it. The whole idea of calling this 'SPACE JOCKEY' or 'Pilot' implies either stepping on PROMETHEUS's toes (and that having possibly been changed, now, accoring to this EMPIRE article), or some other big concept...
The only title that I could possibly think of that would give away the plot of the movie would be something like Alien: Extinction, or maybe something like Alien Earth.
I think its so exciting that we are (kinda) getting our own Marvel universe with new Aliens and another Prometheus.
I would have much preferred 'Alien 5' to be the name. But thinking about it, that does fit with the whole destroying of 'Alien 3' and 'Alien: Resurrection'. As a random prediction, I'll guess it's called something like 'Alien: Earth'. That sounds more like a comic/graphic novel name to me but if its supposedly too revealing, that seems logical.
As for the name and main point of the article - Oh right, don't tread on the toes of the films that does its best to destroy the 'Alien' series. But do completely obliterate the films that don't contradict and are and always will be part of the series.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 21, 2015, 02:51:18 PM
If I had to guess, I'd assume that the thing Scott requested Blomkamp change had something to do with the portrayal of the Derelict/Juggernaut that seems to play a role in the film.
Yeah this unfortunately suggests to me that we are stuck with the shitty Engineers.
Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 21, 2015, 04:33:31 PM
Let there be no more doubt that he is at least waying his words. He is no longer denying that he has something to hide about the concept. What that MISSING stuff is, be it b/w Alien 3 or simply the stuff the series never wrapped up, or possibly both...
Probably elements which have been missing in the recent films. It's a theme he keeps reiterating in interviews.
Psychosexuality, biomechanical aesthetics, making the project a genuinely
horrific viewing experience... A proper return to the derelict's chamber/cave... Agony of egg transformation - hopefully. Might also be something like a strong hint at a Giger-like world where the Alien originally came from.
In fact, if Weyland-Yutani got ahold of the/a derelict
and a Queen Alien, trying to figure out where the species came from seems like a common sense move. They'd be eager to exploit any new such technology. Especially if the ship in question is mostly in a state of irreparable damage; it could teach them a lot, but not nearly as much as a fully-functional version.
Basically, it's probably a wish-list of all the stuff which tends to hit you in the face when you open up a really good reference volume on the films. The stuff which makes you go, "Darn... Wish we had been given more of X, Y and Z."
It could also include a much better look at the Colonial Marines, if they're included in the story - or at least, the type of military hardware they would use. After all, in '
Aliens', all we saw were the equivalent of a recon/repair team. A
fully outfitted fleet would have some seriously imposing capabilities. Especially if a rival group/government intervenes with an interest to take advantage of whatever Weyland-Yutani have possession of.
Ripley might get to "fry half a city". :)
The title reveals too much, huh? Alien:Homeworld perhaps?
Interesting news.
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 21, 2015, 05:16:43 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 21, 2015, 02:51:18 PM
If I had to guess, I'd assume that the thing Scott requested Blomkamp change had something to do with the portrayal of the Derelict/Juggernaut that seems to play a role in the film.
Yeah this unfortunately suggests to me that we are stuck with the shitty Engineers.
Nothing shitty about the Engineers.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 21, 2015, 05:55:21 PM
Then title reveals too much, huh? Alien:Homeworld perhaps?
Interesting news.
God I hope not, at least not with that name.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 21, 2015, 06:14:33 PM
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 21, 2015, 05:16:43 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 21, 2015, 02:51:18 PM
If I had to guess, I'd assume that the thing Scott requested Blomkamp change had something to do with the portrayal of the Derelict/Juggernaut that seems to play a role in the film.
Yeah this unfortunately suggests to me that we are stuck with the shitty Engineers.
Nothing shitty about the Engineers.
Everything, actually (the Prometheus idea at least). ;) ;D
Nope, everything about them is excellent in its presentation.
Continue to be butthurt about your Space Elephants while I'll continue to appreciate both Giger's Space Jockey and the Engineers. ^.^
True sequel to the first two movies he's clarified, eh? If that isn't a blatant and clear enough standing that this is an alternative Alien 3, then I don't know what is! :laugh: It's a now choose your own adventure!
The title reveals too much? A title should reveal anything..
Quote from: Nazrel on Mar 21, 2015, 06:34:43 PM
The title reveals too much? A title should reveal anything..
I assume you mean the title shouldn't reveal anything?
Aliens in context with Alien means a lot, so I think your point is invalid.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 21, 2015, 06:39:51 PM
Quote from: Nazrel on Mar 21, 2015, 06:34:43 PM
The title reveals too much? A title should reveal anything..
I assume you mean the title shouldn't reveal anything?
Aliens in context with Alien means a lot, so I think your point is invalid.
Alien: Ressurection pretty much summed up the story as well.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 21, 2015, 06:28:09 PM
Nope, everything about them is excellent in its presentation.
Quite the contrary. They're laughable. The only things that could be called decent are the make-up appliances.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 21, 2015, 06:28:09 PM
Continue to be butthurt about your Space Elephants while I'll continue to appreciate both Giger's Space Jockey and the Engineers. ^.^
Space Elephants over leucistic Vin Diesels anyday, mate.
No, I don't find anything about them laughable.
Have you watched the Prometheus Documentary?
It specifically details what classical figures they modelled the Engineers after, specifically, objectively they are not body builders or anything of the ilk as many Plebians have labelled them.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 21, 2015, 07:00:38 PM
Have you watched the Prometheus Documentary?
Four times. Really represented how the project fell from the beginning -- with everything else being just the ensuing rock slide.
A L () E N S:
THE ALIENING
Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 21, 2015, 07:04:19 PM
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 21, 2015, 07:00:38 PM
Have you watched the Prometheus Documentary?
Four times. Really represented how the project fell from the beginning -- with everything else being just the ensuing rock slide.
Apart from Lindelof's involvement and a few things edited out (First contact, Engineer speaking, scene with Vickers and Janek)
I really just have to disagree.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 21, 2015, 06:57:11 PM
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 21, 2015, 06:28:09 PM
Nope, everything about them is excellent in its presentation.
Quite the contrary. They're laughable. The only things that could be called decent are the make-up appliances.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 21, 2015, 06:28:09 PM
Continue to be butthurt about your Space Elephants while I'll continue to appreciate both Giger's Space Jockey and the Engineers. ^.^
Space Elephants over leucistic Vin Diesels anyday, mate.
You really have no background in art history. They're playing on Gustave Dore and William Blake. There's nothing interesting about Lovecraft von 90's John Carpenter Elephants on Parade
Well this is disappointing. Looks like Alien 5 might have gotten a jab in the ribs so Prometheus 2 wouldn't be made irrelevant. If a cool concept got scraped and we get Engineers in A5 I'm going to walk out of the theatre. Ridley Scott cares more about a pretty looking movie than a good one, and I hope Blomkamp leaves space jockey's out of the movie all together and focus solely on the xenos.
When it at least means NO Weaver in a Jockey suit thingy, then good. Else, I still haven´t wrapped my mind around that idea of a fifth movie by now.
Quote from: darcevil on Mar 21, 2015, 09:08:34 PM
Well this is disappointing. Looks like Alien 5 might have gotten a jab in the ribs so Prometheus 2 wouldn't be made irrelevant. If a cool concept got scraped and we get Engineers in A5 I'm going to walk out of the theatre. Ridley Scott cares more about a pretty looking movie than a good one, and I hope Blomkamp leaves space jockey's out of the movie all together and focus solely on the xenos.
There is only so much you can do with the attitude of treating the Alien as simply a Movie Monster.
l(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnerdist.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F01%2FXwtw5Ut.jpg&hash=127e4de38d4adf887dedc6f11e643f3ba27c941a)
Alien: Ripley has a bright idea and joins the olympic speed cycling team.
To me this looks laughable, not the Engineers.
Good to hear more news that A3/A:R will be disregarded for this movie. I really hope though, that ALIEN V wanst changed too much to make room for Prom 2. I really disliked Prometheus for an ALIEN movie.
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 21, 2015, 05:16:43 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 21, 2015, 02:51:18 PM
If I had to guess, I'd assume that the thing Scott requested Blomkamp change had something to do with the portrayal of the Derelict/Juggernaut that seems to play a role in the film.
Yeah this unfortunately suggests to me that we are stuck with the shitty Engineers.
Good point- I fear the same
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the title were either, PLANET OF THE ALIENS or PLANET ALIEN. FOX owns the rights to both the ALIEN franchise & the PLANET OF THE APES series, so there would be no infringement or lawsuits. And, everyone expects the film to visit the original planet of the xenomorphs at some point. Yeah, the titles may be a bit cheesy, but I could happily get behind PLANET ALIEN as the title.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 21, 2015, 06:28:09 PM
Nope, everything about them is excellent in its presentation.
Continue to be butthurt about your Space Elephants while I'll continue to appreciate both Giger's Space Jockey and the Engineers. ^.^
I agree, but they're Giger's Enigneers actually... ;)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXvexV.jpg&hash=7688c752e5b12788de731771b31107fbbc8051cc)
I believe the giveaway title will be
Alien: Into Darkness.
Quote from: oduodu on Mar 21, 2015, 10:33:08 PM
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 21, 2015, 05:16:43 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 21, 2015, 02:51:18 PM
If I had to guess, I'd assume that the thing Scott requested Blomkamp change had something to do with the portrayal of the Derelict/Juggernaut that seems to play a role in the film.
Yeah this unfortunately suggests to me that we are stuck with the shitty Engineers.
Good point- I fear the same
Why is Ridley Scott even the producer of this? A man who finds the xenomorph lame nowadays? Just to follow his own interests for his Prometheus saga? ::)
Why does a producer even have a say in this? I'm not surprised if Blomkamp (a big fan) got weak in the knees, because that producer was the director of the first Alien movie. So yeah, i'm pretty sure we can consider our big Vin Diesel as Space Jockey by now :-\ ::)
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-xAFVW_JTEp4%2FTti-Q_qEzjI%2FAAAAAAAAABY%2F_d2jwii9N1Q%2Fs1600%2Fspace_jockey_by_daobiwan-d2z9aj91.jpg&hash=c016609fca747e7e0ad7cca186bc9c588d1ea6e6)
At least this guy would have been a reasonable compromise between a giant Vin Diesel and a Space Elephant, btw ;D
Quote from: stroggificated on Mar 21, 2015, 11:35:23 PM
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-xAFVW_JTEp4%2FTti-Q_qEzjI%2FAAAAAAAAABY%2F_d2jwii9N1Q%2Fs1600%2Fspace_jockey_by_daobiwan-d2z9aj91.jpg&hash=c016609fca747e7e0ad7cca186bc9c588d1ea6e6)
That artwork is well painted, but the face is laughable.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 21, 2015, 06:33:15 PM
True sequel to the first two movies he's clarified, eh? If that isn't a blatant and clear enough standing that this is an alternative Alien 3, then I don't know what is! :laugh: It's a now choose your own adventure!
That phrase always wants me to punch someone in the face. True sequel to the first two movies? What does that really mean? It means: A movie that is just like my beloved ALIENS, but I'm referring to ALIEN as token by association so that I sound level-headed and informed and not like the raging forever adolescent fanboy with a hard-on for Hicks that I really am.
Yup, choose your adventure is what it looks like. This movie project just feels so insincere and a joke in so many ways. The way Blomkamp is approaching this as a movie makes me cringe. Fans make horrible movies because they are too tangled up in their fandom and can't help infringing on the quality of the movie in favor of fan-service and one's own fandom. It's gonna be there and it is going to pollute everything. It will drive the wedge between fans even further and make the franchise and it's movies even sillier and campy than it already is.
Also this "giant vin diesel" or "albino bodybuilder" crap analogies need to stop, dislike the concept if you wish but please don't relegate it to something it isn't.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 22, 2015, 12:09:01 AM
Also this "giant vin diesel" or "albino bodybuilder" crap analogies need to stop, dislike the concept if you wish but please don't relegate it to something it isn't.
Like the space elephant crap analogy...?
No, because the Space Jockey is a lovecrafian elephantine creature.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 22, 2015, 12:10:44 AM
No, because the Space Jockey is a lovecrafian elephantine creature.
In no manner it looks elephantine. Yet here we are. "Albino Vin Diesel" is comparatively a far more accurate analogy for the engineers.
It absolutely looks elephantine, (From what we see) are you joking?
Long stubby arms, and a trunk, most of all.
And no, it comparatively isn't, it isn't even a simplification of the concept in the manner Lovecraftian elephant is.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 22, 2015, 12:05:36 AM
That phrase always wants me to punch someone in the face. True sequel to the first two movies? What does that really mean? It means: A movie that is just like my beloved ALIENS, but I'm referring to ALIEN as token by association so that I sound level-headed and informed and not like the raging forever adolescent fanboy with a hard-on for Hicks that I really am.
Yup, choose your adventure is what it looks like. This movie project just feels so insincere and a joke in so many ways. The way Blomkamp is approaching this as a movie makes me cringe. Fans make horrible movies because they are too tangled up in their fandom and can't help infringing on the quality of the movie in favor of fan-service and one's own fandom. It's gonna be there and it is going to pollute everything. It will drive the wedge between fans even further and make the franchise and it's movies even sillier and campy than it already is.
SpreadEagleBeagle let me say that I absolutely feel your pain, because I have been there before. I was there when PREDATORS was being produced and toted around as the "true sequel" to the 1987 original. And much like you, I wanted to punch and still want to punch someone in the face. So I understand your pain. I understand your frustration, and I completely sympathize with you. I really do. I mean... Did I want another Alien movie to be made? Hell no! And no one asked for it.. except for maybe people who were disappointed with Prometheus but considering that this is Blomkamp, who more or less now confirmed what he's going with the movies and his stance on it.. It's pretty distressing. I understand. The same thing happened with PREDATORS, and the same thing is happening here.
PREDATORS had a Predator 1 fanboy helming the project, and here we have an ALIENS fan helming the project but now he's being told to accommodate for Prometheus. A movie that Ridley Scott is hashing out and is continuing to hash out with his sequel. And as someone had said, it seemed like Blomkamp complied because Scott is his idol. Infact, it's looking like this is the PREDATORS of the Alien franchise as far as direct sequels go. Do I like the fact that it's changing things? Hell no.
But he's not "undoing" Alien 3 and Resurrection. Those are still there and will always be a part of the series. It's probably best to look at the series now like the Godzilla and Halloween films. We've got alternate timelines/continuity paths now. I don't care if what I just said gets certain fans panties in a damn knot..
CANON BE DAMNED! Especially considering that the franchises have been retconned/rebooted twice already (PREDATORS and Prometheus) and now a third time? Well, if you ask me, picking and choosing your adventure is not a bad thing.. If you ask me.. it gives us a way out to follow what we want.
You want to follow Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection's timeline? Be my guest! You won't be wrong!
OMG Ridley! Why are you trying to destroy other aliens movies? You already destroyed yours, why do you need to step on others?
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 22, 2015, 12:19:17 AM
It absolutely looks elephantine, (From what we see) are you joking?
No, are you? A thin, bony structure that merges the skull of the thing with its sternum in no manner resembles an elephant trunk -- a thick, fleshy, muscular appendage with a wide range of motion and purposes.
Prometheus turned the thing into a tapir suit. Before that, it was just a twisted amalgamation of machinery and bones.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 22, 2015, 12:19:17 AM
it isn't even a simplification of the concept in the manner Lovecraftian elephant is.
You're correct -- it's a direct, devastatingly
accurate description of the engineer.
In other words -- I hope you see the point now.
So you're going to be padantic about a simplification FFS, it was identified as a trunk of some sort long before Prometheus was around.
No it really isn't accurate in the slightest, you're as wrong as wrong can be.
(Slightly hyperbolic, but the point is made.)
Quote from: CelticPred97 on Mar 21, 2015, 05:06:41 PM
I would have much preferred 'Alien 5' to be the name. But thinking about it, that does fit with the whole destroying of 'Alien 3' and 'Alien: Resurrection'. As a random prediction, I'll guess it's called something like 'Alien: Earth'. That sounds more like a comic/graphic novel name to me but if its supposedly too revealing, that seems logical.
As for the name and main point of the article - Oh right, don't tread on the toes of the films that does its best to destroy the 'Alien' series. But do completely obliterate the films that don't contradict and are and always will be part of the series.
THIS
So they didn't hire bodybuilders to play the engineers?
I take it by the way Neil is phrasing his words that Alien (NB) replacing Alien 3 and A:R in the storyline is a foregone conclusion? There are a LOT of quotes from various individuals that have been pointing to this same end-result.
I also suppose we ought to re-edit the name of this board if the movie is no longer called Alien 5. :-\
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 22, 2015, 12:25:13 AM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 22, 2015, 12:05:36 AM
That phrase always wants me to punch someone in the face. True sequel to the first two movies? What does that really mean? It means: A movie that is just like my beloved ALIENS, but I'm referring to ALIEN as token by association so that I sound level-headed and informed and not like the raging forever adolescent fanboy with a hard-on for Hicks that I really am.
Yup, choose your adventure is what it looks like. This movie project just feels so insincere and a joke in so many ways. The way Blomkamp is approaching this as a movie makes me cringe. Fans make horrible movies because they are too tangled up in their fandom and can't help infringing on the quality of the movie in favor of fan-service and one's own fandom. It's gonna be there and it is going to pollute everything. It will drive the wedge between fans even further and make the franchise and it's movies even sillier and campy than it already is.
SpreadEagleBeagle let me say that I absolutely feel your pain, because I have been there before. I was there when PREDATORS was being produced and toted around as the "true sequel" to the 1987 original. And much like you, I wanted to punch and still want to punch someone in the face. So I understand your pain. I understand your frustration, and I completely sympathize with you. I really do. I mean... Did I want another Alien movie to be made? Hell no! And no one asked for it.. except for maybe people who were disappointed with Prometheus but considering that this is Blomkamp, who more or less now confirmed what he's going with the movies and his stance on it.. It's pretty distressing. I understand. The same thing happened with PREDATORS, and the same thing is happening here.
PREDATORS had a Predator 1 fanboy helming the project, and here we have an ALIENS fan helming the project but now he's being told to accommodate for Prometheus. A movie that Ridley Scott is hashing out and is continuing to hash out with his sequel. And as someone had said, it seemed like Blomkamp complied because Scott is his idol. Infact, it's looking like this is the PREDATORS of the Alien franchise as far as direct sequels go. Do I like the fact that it's changing things? Hell no.
But he's not "undoing" Alien 3 and Resurrection. Those are still there and will always be a part of the series. It's probably best to look at the series now like the Godzilla and Halloween films. We've got alternate timelines/continuity paths now. I don't care if what I just said gets certain fans panties in a damn knot.. CANON BE DAMNED! Especially considering that the franchises have been retconned/rebooted twice already (PREDATORS and Prometheus) and now a third time? Well, if you ask me, picking and choosing your adventure is not a bad thing.. If you ask me.. it gives us a way out to follow what we want.
You want to follow Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection's timeline? Be my guest! You won't be wrong!
How many times can you make the comparison with Godzilla and Halloween ? Just asking.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 22, 2015, 12:36:13 AM
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 22, 2015, 12:19:17 AM
It absolutely looks elephantine, (From what we see) are you joking?
No, are you? A thin, bony structure that merges the skull of the thing with its sternum in no manner resembles an elephant trunk -- a thick, fleshy, muscular appendage with a wide range of motion and purposes.
Prometheus turned the thing into a tapir suit. Before that, it was just a twisted amalgamation of machinery and bones.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 22, 2015, 12:19:17 AM
it isn't even a simplification of the concept in the manner Lovecraftian elephant is.
You're correct -- it's a direct, devastatingly accurate description of the engineer.
In other words -- I hope you see the point now.
I never thought of it as elephantine untill I saw the concepts from the comics, that I find laughable.
I don't know where this vin diesel thing comes from, but I don't care, even I don't see any resemblance. I think Engineers look like Greek Goods or so. An idea that I truly don't like. All that Von daniken shit is lame, specially Von Daniken himself.
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 22, 2015, 01:19:16 AM
I take it by the way Neil is phrasing his words that Alien (NB) replacing Alien 3 and A:R in the storyline is a foregone conclusion? There are a LOT of quotes from various individuals that have been pointing to this same end-result.
I also suppose we ought to re-edit the name of this board if the movie is no longer called Alien 5. :-\
Just name it FAILENS - accurate and to the point.
Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 22, 2015, 01:21:20 AM
How many times can you make the comparison with Godzilla and Halloween ? Just asking.
Plenty of times, but I could also make comparisons with Highlander.
What I am trying to show is that there's more than one continuity as of now similarly to both Godzilla and Halloween franchise. When a franchise has more than one reboot or retcon, canon holds little meaning. I'd like the fandom to see what I see buuuuut.. I guess some folks don't want to accept that. Some get flustered when I make the comparisons.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 22, 2015, 01:25:03 AM
Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 22, 2015, 01:21:20 AM
How many times can you make the comparison with Godzilla and Halloween ? Just asking.
Plenty of times, but I could also make comparisons with Highlander.
What I am trying to show is that there's more than one continuity as of now similarly to both Godzilla and Halloween franchise. When a franchise has more than one reboot or retcon, canon holds little meaning. I'd like the fandom to see what I see buuuuut.. I guess some folks don't want to accept that. Some get flustered when I make the comparisons.
Maybe its me not giving a sh...about the sequels of any of those movies. I don't think they are good examples. Godzilla ones because they are from an era where all this retcon/sequel etc wasn't taken seriously, the others because all the sequels are horrible fillms done by people with ZERO talent who don't deserve even 3 seconds of consideration.
Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 22, 2015, 01:27:14 AM
Maybe its me not giving a sh...about the sequels of any of those movies. I don't think they are good examples. Godzilla ones because they are from an era where all this retcon/sequel etc wasn't taken seriously, the others because all the sequels are horrible fillms done by people with ZERO talent who don't deserve even 3 seconds of consideration.
You make it sound like you're ready to accept an Alien universe where the Alien is second flute to the Engineers and where the Ripley story is continued because one man didn't like where the franchise went after ALIENS.
Personally... While I am more of a Predator fan.. I'll say this.. to me, Alien 3 and Resurrection are always going to be a part of the series and I'll pick them over the path where this new continuity is going.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 22, 2015, 01:24:06 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 22, 2015, 01:19:16 AM
I take it by the way Neil is phrasing his words that Alien (NB) replacing Alien 3 and A:R in the storyline is a foregone conclusion? There are a LOT of quotes from various individuals that have been pointing to this same end-result.
I also suppose we ought to re-edit the name of this board if the movie is no longer called Alien 5. :-\
Just name it FAILENS - accurate and to the point.
I take it you're still peeved at the replacement? Just do what you do for the AVP films, view Alien 3 to be in a different universe from Prometheus and Alien (NB). :)
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 22, 2015, 01:42:00 AM
I take it you're still peeved at the replacement? Just do what you do for the AVP films, view Alien 3 to be in a different universe from Prometheus and Alien (NB). :)
That maybe the case. I could make comparisons to other franchises but some people are probably a bit tired of me making them.
Out of all the concept art previewed by Blomkamp, the one featuring Sigourney wearing that 'alien'-looking headgear was the thing I least liked. (Well, that and the lack of an 'eyepatch' for the horribly disfigured Hicks - he's just gonna look unnecessarily painful to look at, if he has a blind, white eye throughout!)
To me, that 'alien'-esque 'helmet' design just looks ridiculous. So if that turns out to be the thing that bothered Ridley, due to it contradicting what Prometheus showed, then no big loss as far as I'm concerned (not that I'm happy about the shoddily CGI'd 'money shot' of the 'space jockey' in the chair that Ridley came up with either, compared to what was seen in the original movie)
On the other hand, if it turns out that we lose the imagery of the 'derelict'/'juggernaut' being investigated, then I'll be a little disappointed. It's one of the most intriguing-looking aspects of Blomkamp's concepts I reckon. And would be one of the more memorable-looking (and at least Giger-esque) moments in the movie if kept. So I hope it's not this that Ridley wanted removed altogether.
Either way I'm looking forward to ALIENS II: RIPLEY LIVES! when it's released.
He won't trod on Prometheus' toes-- but he'll piss in the faces of fans of Alien³ and Resurrection all with a grin on his twaty little face? God, I wanna punch this director in the dickhead.
f**k him. f**k him with a rusty chib, sew buttons to his eye lids and rub a badger's rancid, hoaching arse in his face. The dirty little bastard claims he isn't getting rid of 3&4, but the next time we hear from him, he appears to be doing exactly that?!
Who let this one note f**k get a hold of Alien---F_U_C_K YOU FOX!
Quote from: The Other Mr. Runner on Mar 22, 2015, 01:52:21 AM
He won't trod on Prometheus' toes-- but he'll piss in the faces of fans of Alien³ and Resurrection all with a grin on his twaty little face? God, I wanna punch this director in the dickhead.
f**k him. f**k him with a rusty chib, sew buttons to his eye lids and rub a badger's rancid, hoaching arse in his face. The dirty little bastard claims he isn't getting rid of 3&4, but the next time we hear from him, he appears to be doing exactly that?!
Who let this one note f**k get a hold of Alien---F_U_C_K YOU FOX!
I have never laughed so hard at a forum post.
Quote from: The Other Mr. Runner on Mar 22, 2015, 01:52:21 AM
He won't trod on Prometheus' toes-- but he'll piss in the faces of fans of Alien³ and Resurrection all with a grin on his twaty little face? God, I wanna punch this director in the dickhead.
f**k him. f**k him with a rusty chib, sew buttons to his eye lids and rub a badger's rancid, hoaching arse in his face. The dirty little bastard claims he isn't getting rid of 3&4, but the next time we hear from him, he appears to be doing exactly that?!
Who let this one note f**k get a hold of Alien---F_U_C_K YOU FOX!
At least he is upfront about his intents, he's altering continuity by creating a multiverse; that's still miles better than outright breaking continuity by trying to make a movie that ignores all previous works while still existing in the same universe.
Quote from: The Other Mr. Runner on Mar 22, 2015, 01:52:21 AM
He won't trod on Prometheus' toes-- but he'll piss in the faces of fans of Alien³ and Resurrection all with a grin on his twaty little face? God, I wanna punch this director in the dickhead.
f**k him. f**k him with a rusty chib, sew buttons to his eye lids and rub a badger's rancid, hoaching arse in his face. The dirty little bastard claims he isn't getting rid of 3&4, but the next time we hear from him, he appears to be doing exactly that?!
Who let this one note f**k get a hold of Alien---F_U_C_K YOU FOX!
As much as I and other people love the third movie, fans of the fourth one? didn't realise there was such a group :laugh: In all seriousness though Blomkamp just wants to branch off the story from the first two movies into something that I think fans deserved back then. Sure enough David Fincher did make the best out of a bad situation with alien 3 but it was nothing compared to the first two.
When it comes down to it the big problem is that this AMAZINGNESS
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.stack.imgur.com%2F5AGwh.jpg&hash=1252c5b8ad12c0ea4d0e95bd32fdda7021b7096e)
Became THIS dogshit
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FStBMEpWreGk%2Fhqdefault.jpg&hash=32ac91927c6bbf80c5041a4a8220182bbf4ed3fe)
Not to mention how unbelievably generic and unoriginal the Engineer design became
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.usatoday.net%2Fcommunitymanager%2F_photos%2Fgame-hunters%2F2009%2F10%2F21%2Fseth-sfivx-large.jpg&hash=aca54bf73c6666d93873854f73b9cb31bd26f629)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20080724142111%2Fwatchmen%2Fimages%2F7%2F7c%2FDoctor_Manhattan_%28movie%29.jpg&hash=f2be76aca9ba3bd0c1f2177bfd7ef1a2f45d9510)
Honest or not, predxeno, I utmost hate when someone does this bullshitery, especially a disgruntled Aliens nut-f-uck who threw his toys out of the pram upon seeing the first five minutes of the third film. And it's all to just so Hicks and Newt --BOOHOO THEY'RE F_U_C_KING DEAD NEIL-- can be stupidly revived. Rez already thread that line with Ripley.
May as well get over that barrel and lube up for the rough f**k over that's coming to us.
Sorry for all the swearing ladies and gents, just that this director is really rustling my jimmies with his fanfic intentions for this film.
Lol, believe Murfy...we exist. :laugh:
Spoiler
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/82723a8ce80a1ab0c88179360e561e24/tumblr_n9joytbADY1r5v1dfo1_500.gif)
Quote from: The Other Mr. Runner on Mar 22, 2015, 02:18:29 AM
Sorry for all the swearing ladies and gents, just that this director is really rustling my jimmies with his fanfic intentions for this film.
I was the same way with PREDATORS. So I understand how you feel.
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 22, 2015, 02:02:39 AM
At least he is upfront about his intents, he's altering continuity by creating a multiverse; that's still miles better than outright breaking continuity by trying to make a movie that ignores all previous works while still existing in the same universe.
Glad to know you're coming around the way I see things, now PredXeno! I mean a lot of franchises do this, and I've pointed a few out that have already done this and are known for doing it! No point in releasing a timeline chart anymore now we've got multiple continuity paths, as that seems to be the case!
Multiple continuity paths sounds good, but why this one- why not the one that the Queen kills Ripley in the loader fight, tortures little Newt rather than killing her, which leaves it up to Hicks and what's left of Bishop to stop her highness before the Sulaco autopilots back to Earth?
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 22, 2015, 02:17:03 AM
When it comes down to it the big problem is that this AMAZINGNESS
http://i.stack.imgur.com/5AGwh.jpg
Became THIS dogshit
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/StBMEpWreGk/hqdefault.jpg
Not to mention how unbelievably generic and unoriginal the Engineer design became
http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-hunters/2009/10/21/seth-sfivx-large.jpg
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080724142111/watchmen/images/7/7c/Doctor_Manhattan_(movie).jpg
Lol, this is just too dumb, I need to take a break from this discount forum.
Quote from: The Other Mr. Runner on Mar 22, 2015, 02:33:05 AM
Multiple continuity paths sounds good, but why this one- why not the one that the Queen kills Ripley in the loader fight, tortures little Newt rather than killing her, which leaves it up to Hicks and what's left of Bishop to stop her highness before the Sulaco autopilots back to Earth?
Wait... What?
Is that a thing? Is this... what you just said about a Queen killing Ripley in the Power Loader a thing?
It's just an idea, dude. It's not a thing.
Quote from: The Other Mr. Runner on Mar 22, 2015, 02:33:05 AM
Multiple continuity paths sounds good, but why this one- why not the one that the Queen kills Ripley in the loader fight, tortures little Newt rather than killing her, which leaves it up to Hicks and what's left of Bishop to stop her highness before the Sulaco autopilots back to Earth?
Why is it though that when fox preps to make another alien movie, they have to ritualistically make sure ripley is in it, why not use this new movie to introduce a new main character, someone new and fresh because im sorry ill say it time and time again, they have exhausted the character of ripley. Haha Mr Runner thank you for correcting me, liked the movie for certain things but not in general but got to admit the newborns eyes did freak me out lol thanks for putting a chill in my spine before I start work lol
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 22, 2015, 02:35:28 AM
Wait... What?
Is that a thing? Is this... what you just said about a Queen killing Ripley in the Power Loader a thing?
Just one of many things swirling around.
Hey tmjhur, you forgot this one too- the true inspiration for Prometheus' Engineers.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F2ziBE.jpg&hash=2871deb8c2b21470337ef719505098b3ec8913df)
Theoretically, this could work. Blomkamp could do the more traditional Alien stories with Ridley focusing on more trippy stuff that brings to life the artwork of Giger and Carlos Huante to life with abandon. If we don't ever see at least one version of the ultramorph in the films, it will be a great tragedy.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 22, 2015, 02:39:50 AM
It's just an idea, dude. It's not a thing.
I thought it was a thing like... a discarded script or something. Huh..
Quote from: Murfy426 on Mar 22, 2015, 02:40:19 AM
Why is it though that when fox preps to make another alien movie, they have to ritualistically make sure ripley is in it, why not use this new movie to introduce a new main character
I honestly don't understand the Ripley mandate myself. I mean the new EU does happen to have now a Ripley family thing going on, but pre-reboot EU material at first tried to have a Ripley thing going on-- didn't last too long since Alien 3 came out. After that, there were mostly stand alone stories which could be looked as isolated events taking place in the same universe, very few stories were interconnected with each other. But now.. that we're getting a revival of the Ripley story, well..
Maybe Fox feels that the Alien franchise can't be carried by anyone else who isn't Sigourney Weaver, or even a Ripley.
Quote from: Murfy426 on Mar 22, 2015, 02:40:19 AM
Why is it though that when fox preps to make another alien movie, they have to ritualistically make sure ripley is in it, why not use this new movie to introduce a new main character, someone new and fresh because im sorry ill say it time and time again, they have exhausted the character of ripley. Haha Mr Runner thank you for correcting me, liked the movie for certain things but not in general but got to admit the newborns eyes did freak me out lol thanks for putting a chill in my spine before I start work lol
Yes, god give us somebody fresh! Glad to be of chilling service Murfy :-* ;D
QuoteI thought it was a thing like... a discarded script or something. Huh..
Nah, just made that up. I wouldn't mind seeing it though.
Okay well enough bring her back for this movie but why not bring her as a supporting character and have the movie narrative being viewed through a new characters eyes?
Quote from: Murfy426 on Mar 22, 2015, 02:52:25 AM
Okay well enough bring her back for this movie but why not bring her as a supporting character and have the movie narrative being viewed through a new characters eyes?
Here's the thing... Blomkamp wanted to do at least two or three more sequels with Ripley. But here's a couple issues with that, for one where can he go with more sequels and two... Weaver will be pushing seventy by the time he started on the next sequel. Anymore sequels, we'll be having a geriatric Ellen Ripley. If we aren't getting one already.
Whether or not Blomkamp is going to do a sequel depends on whether or not the movie does commercially or critically. I can say that it will do well commercially because fans are going to go see this movie, even fans that are already trashing this movie. We're suckers for this sort of shit. And it's true.
One good thing that might come out of this is an adult Newt, who has alot of potential. She could go either way in terms of personality; a kind soul who dedicates her life to helping people, especially children, or a deeply scarred, morbid individual who traverses the galaxy simultaneously chasing and running from her demons.
QuoteI can say that it will do well commercially because fans are going to go see this movie, even fans that are already trashing this movie. We're suckers for this sort of shit. And it's true.
Damn right! I'm gonna see it and I hate it, stupid fan obligation! WTH is wrong with us?!
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 22, 2015, 02:57:25 AM
One good thing that might come out of this is an adult Newt, who has alot of potential. She could go either way in terms of personality; a kind soul who dedicates her life to helping people, especially children, or a deeply scarred, morbid individual who traverses the galaxy simultaneously chasing and running from her demons.
Now that I like the sound of :)
Quote from: The Other Mr. Runner on Mar 22, 2015, 03:01:26 AM
Damn right! I'm gonna see it and I hate it, stupid fan obligation! WTH is wrong with us?!
I did the same thing with PREDATORS.. Chances are I'm probably gonna do the same thing with this movie. Of course, I'm at a point where I just do not really care too much anymore. But then again, I don't care much about the Alien franchise as I do with Predator.. Soooooooo... Yeah. But I understand why people are so frustrated. I mean I liked Alien 3.. Resurrection? Eeeeh.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 22, 2015, 03:06:06 AM
Quote from: The Other Mr. Runner on Mar 22, 2015, 03:01:26 AM
Damn right! I'm gonna see it and I hate it, stupid fan obligation! WTH is wrong with us?!
I did the same thing with PREDATORS.. Chances are I'm probably gonna do the same thing with this movie. Of course, I'm at a point where I just do not really care too much anymore. But then again, I don't care much about the Alien franchise as I do with Predator.. Soooooooo... Yeah. But I understand why people are so frustrated. I mean I liked Alien 3.. Resurrection? Eeeeh.
In the cases of AVP:R and PREDS, there was at least some curiosity; I wasn't psyched about them but I still wanted to watch them at one point.
When it comes to A5, I'm just hopelessly bored and pissed off, both at the same time. I'm not one hit curious about what this movie has to offer or what the story will be about, because to me it just seems like a terrible fanfic scenario sponsored by FOX.
I don't get why people are clinging to the "Aliens-fanboy" thing when Blomkamp keeps referring to it as "Scott's world" and stated that after seeing Alien in a theater setting it might have surpassed Aliens for him. Not being fond of the direction Alien 3 went in does not automatically make one an Aliens-fanboy that only acknowledges Alien by association.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 22, 2015, 04:09:26 AM
When it comes to A5, I'm just hopelessly bored and pissed off, both at the same time. I'm not one hit curious about what this movie has to offer or what the story will be about, because to me it just seems like a terrible fanfic scenario sponsored by FOX.
I completely understand your disappointment and frustration. I really do, because what you are feeling is how I went through with PREDATORS. I mean right now, I am at a point where.. I just don't care anymore. I mean that's not entirely true because I do care in someway but more like.. I see the franchises as broken now and see no point in getting hyped up.
Then again, practically almost EVERY franchise that came out in the 1970s and 1980s seems to be going through some sort of massive change. All of them are.. I mean Terminator Genesys is completely tossing the Terminator timeline by over-writing it while taking place during the first movie. Point is... everything is changing. Personally, I don't like it. And now Alien is changing too.
I liked Alien 3. I liked Alien 3 even more when I saw the Assembly cut and I made the Assembly Cut my preferred version. And then there is a Workprint version which is said to be even better. Resurrection, I could do without and I ignore as it's set in the far, far future.
From how I see things, and I point to the multiverse/alternate timeline thread which I remember you seeming to warm up to... there maybe a multiverse or alternate timeline going on.
But I have to ask.. Why did you like Alien 3 and what are your thoughts on Resurrection?
I'm disappointed. I wanted me some references to Engineers.
Aw, come on. This was bound to happen if Blomkamp wanted to explore the space jockeys engineers more in depth - still upset with Ridley and the direction he took them in.
Anyway, I'm more concerned about this:
http://www.aliensversuspredator.net/news/weyland-yutani-using-mind-controlled-xenomorphs-in-alien-5 (http://www.aliensversuspredator.net/news/weyland-yutani-using-mind-controlled-xenomorphs-in-alien-5)
Quote from: The Other Mr. Runner on Mar 22, 2015, 01:52:21 AM
He won't trod on Prometheus' toes-- but he'll piss in the faces of fans of Alien³ and Resurrection all with a grin on his twaty little face? God, I wanna punch this director in the dickhead.
f**k him. f**k him with a rusty chib, sew buttons to his eye lids and rub a badger's rancid, hoaching arse in his face. The dirty little bastard claims he isn't getting rid of 3&4, but the next time we hear from him, he appears to be doing exactly that?!
Who let this one note f**k get a hold of Alien---F_U_C_K YOU FOX!
Well, the people who loved Alien/Aliens and hated Alien 3 already paid their dues when it comes to face-pissing. I guess Fox figures that it's time everyone else did.
Personally, I found A:R to be a pretty decent flick as long as you turn your brain off and just let yourself enjoy it for what it is. The action is fun, some of the characters are enjoyable to watch. It's basically a high-budget Sci-fi Channel movie. Which is fine. I enjoy those kind of movies.
A3, I just can't be so kind to. Even forgiving the fact that they killed half the characters from the last movie within minutes(and in the most lazy way possible, I might add), it's a film with no one to root for, nobody to care about, and very little to take away after you're done watching it. And that damned egg never ceases to bother the living hell out of me. The film's basic premise is the epitome of lazy writing. "There's an egg on the Sulaco just because. We'll kill off Newt/Hicks because of 'dark tone' and they bother us. Here's a bunch of generic prisoner/monks for the new Alien to kill. And Ripley should die because Sigourney is tired of playing her.' Fincher's directing is the one thing that saved the whole film from being a complete mess, and even he disowns the film.
I honestly think both movies are better as dreams. All plotholes and bad writing can be forgiven in dreams. In no way do I want Blomkamp to actually acknowledge this possibility. Featuring a living Ripley/Newt/Hicks 30 years after Aliens would be all I'd need. Alien 3 would take on a whole new meaning for me. It would be a true nightmare for Ripley/Newt/Hicks, something they wake up still wondering if it was real, still wondering if an egg really DID get on the Sulaco.
Course, I fully expect to be called an 'Aliens fanboy' for holding this opinion. Which is fine, since it's mostly true. I just get tired of people acting as if that's a bad thing.
I just find it ironic of the die-hard Alien 3/Resurrection fans saying thay the movie sucks because of "butt-hurt Aliens fanboys" and are being butt-hurt fanboys themselves.
Quote from: NickisSmart on Mar 22, 2015, 05:22:26 AM
I'm disappointed. I wanted me some references to Engineers.
You'll probably get them -- it's Scott's World...
Quote from: Close Encounters on Mar 22, 2015, 07:58:05 AM
it's a film with no one to root for, nobody to care about, and very little to take away after you're done watching it.
I was kinda down when Clemens and 85 have been killed.
Clemens could have been the new Hicks and 85 never met his family again, because he was stupid.
I mean, certainly the protagonist in the new alien game won't be killed by WY, so why would they kill 85? ;D
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Mar 22, 2015, 06:51:22 AMAnyway, I'm more concerned about this:
http://www.aliensversuspredator.net/news/weyland-yutani-using-mind-controlled-xenomorphs-in-alien-5 (http://www.aliensversuspredator.net/news/weyland-yutani-using-mind-controlled-xenomorphs-in-alien-5)
That's fan art. I posted that from its original source a couple days ago.
Quote from: Jarac on Mar 22, 2015, 09:29:28 AM
I just find it ironic of the die-hard Alien 3/Resurrection fans saying thay the movie sucks because of "butt-hurt Aliens fanboys" and are being butt-hurt fanboys themselves.
This
I see some here are referring to Blomkamp's upcoming sequel to ALIENS as being mere 'fan fiction'. Fair enough, but it's a meaningless kind of put-down as ALIEN 3 and ALIEN RESURRECTION can equally be looked on as being just that too. In fact, the same can be said of *every* sequel (and prequel) that came about after the success of what was initially conceived as a 'stand-alone' movie storyline - so for instance, ALIENS itself can be looked on as just being a speculative 'fan fiction' follow-up to ALIEN too.
I'd argue that certain sequels and prequels can be said to have more 'official' credence about them if they were made by the *exact same* writers and director's as the original hit, but everything else is basically 'Expanded Universe'/'fan fiction' type stuff in a certain sense.
Me?, I loved a lot of Cameron's 'fan fiction' follow-up to what Ridley's team originally gave us. And while I'd have been happy to see a Cameron follow-up to ALIEN which *didn't* feel the need to feature Sigourney's surviving character from the original story, he gave me a movie I liked at the end of the day. Personally, I can't say the same for ALIEN 3 and ALIEN RESURRECTION came next...so I'm all for this new concept of Blomkamp's.
While I'd love if he had the audacity to specifically hint at ALIEN 3 and ALIEN RESURRECTION as being 'cryo-nightmare's' onscreen, I very much doubt if he will do so (or even be allowed to)...but if he somehow implies this is an 'alternative universe' type thing onscreen, then I will be disappointed. Yes, I could just look on the other 2 movies as being the ones from an 'alternative universe' to ALIEN and ALIENS, and that Blomkamp's version is what *actually* happened next...but I'd rather he didn't make *any* kind of reference to them whatsoever. That way, fans can just choose the particular 'fan fiction' they choose to prefer, be it Blomkamp's movie storyline or Fincher's movie storyline.
I'm just still taking it in the fact that Sigourney has agreed to something which seems to totally exclude a direct follow-up to her 'Ripley 8 clone' character whatsoever. But let's face it, she *already* backtracked from 'killing off' her best known onscreen role once, and probably realises this is a last chance to revive the glory days somewhat...in a way that a direct sequel 'fan fiction' to ALIEN RESURRECTION never would! ;)
@ The Other Mr. Runner - I'm not if you wrote your last post at around the same kind of time that I posted my mine just before it. But if so, I would refer you to what I wrote if you didn't see it before you posted.
@ everyone, I just had a scary thought - although Blomkamp may be giving us an 'alternate outcome' to ALIEN 3's storyline...if he still decides to kill off the now elderly Ripley with a 'Queen facehugger' just like Fincher's storyline did, then Sigourney can still maintain her 'Ripley 8 clone' character went on to exist afterwards, and fans of ALIEN RESURRECTION can claim that it's storyline is still 'official canon' no matter what! :o
*shudder*
I can't wait until he clarifies on this whole issue so that we can stop having this debate. Like I said in another topic a while ago, this is going to be a long production cycle, at least as long as we all keep dedicating pages upon pages of discussion to deliberately vague statements.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 22, 2015, 02:57:25 AM
One good thing that might come out of this is an adult Newt, who has alot of potential. She could go either way in terms of personality; a kind soul who dedicates her life to helping people, especially children, or a deeply scarred, morbid individual who traverses the galaxy simultaneously chasing and running from her demons.
Somebody kill me please.
Quote from: BringbackJonesy! on Mar 22, 2015, 02:02:23 PM...fans of ALIEN RESURRECTION can claim that it's storyline is still 'official canon' no matter what!
And what exactly would be wrong with that? If that's what they want to do, they're welcome to do so.
That said, I find it unlikely they'll do a retcon just to have Ripley suffer the same fate. That really would be pointless.
Don't worry HuDaFuk, I'm only joshing around. Fans of the franchise can choose to include whichever sequels they want in their own 'official canon', of course. I know I do. ::)
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 22, 2015, 12:59:37 PM
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Mar 22, 2015, 06:51:22 AMAnyway, I'm more concerned about this:
http://www.aliensversuspredator.net/news/weyland-yutani-using-mind-controlled-xenomorphs-in-alien-5 (http://www.aliensversuspredator.net/news/weyland-yutani-using-mind-controlled-xenomorphs-in-alien-5)
That's fan art. I posted that from its original source a couple days ago.
Just fanart? I hope so. The article made it sound like it was a concept Blomkamp was considering, and that someone did up some artwork to accompany the news post (if it wasn't concept art).
Yeah, it's art that a fan put together in hopes of catching Blomkamp's attention and getting a job on the film.
I'd bet one thing: when this movie comes out on blu-ray, the accompanying documentary isn't gonna have too many screenshots from these boards. :P
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 22, 2015, 02:37:11 PM
I can't wait until he clarifies on this whole issue so that we can stop having this debate.
If you ask me, I don't see a debate. I mean considering that he's said that this is the triplet to the first two movies.. I would think that cinches it. Unless someone out there could convince me otherwise.
My only question, is Michael Biehn in or not? It's all conflicting at the moment. Seeing as he wasn't even thought of for Terminatir Genisys and Jai Courtney as Reese irks me no end, he really deserves Alien 5 in my eyes
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 22, 2015, 11:33:54 PM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 22, 2015, 02:37:11 PM
I can't wait until he clarifies on this whole issue so that we can stop having this debate.
If you ask me, I don't see a debate. I mean considering that he's said that this is the triplet to the first two movies.. I would think that cinches it. Unless someone out there could convince me otherwise.
Yeah, everything that he's said has made it extremely obvious that it is going to be going in that direction. Some people are clinging to Blomkamp's single comment about not trying to undo 3 and Resurrection, but that came across more as more as him saying that overwriting those two films isn't his goal, it's just something that has to happen in order for him to follow on from Aliens and stay in what he sees as the style of the first two films.
He's pretty explicit about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ihfeibtCQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ihfeibtCQ)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th8os-IfZhg&t=14 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th8os-IfZhg&t=14)
Quote from: elMorseMan on Mar 22, 2015, 11:42:03 PM
My only question, is Michael Biehn in or not? It's all conflicting at the moment. Seeing as he wasn't even thought of for Terminatir Genisys and Jai Courtney as Reese irks me no end, he really deserves Alien 5 in my eyes
Supposedly, Michael Biehn has been approached about Alien 5 but he hasn't confirmed anything. And those Instagram confirmations, which A LOT OF PEOPLE have fallen for... are false. Jennifer Blanc has confirmed that the Instagram account which suggested that he was going to be in Alien 5 has been false. So.. Biehn is not in the movie... Yet.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 22, 2015, 12:59:37 PM
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Mar 22, 2015, 06:51:22 AMAnyway, I'm more concerned about this:
http://www.aliensversuspredator.net/news/weyland-yutani-using-mind-controlled-xenomorphs-in-alien-5 (http://www.aliensversuspredator.net/news/weyland-yutani-using-mind-controlled-xenomorphs-in-alien-5)
That's fan art. I posted that from its original source a couple days ago.
Cool pictures, reminds me of the xenoborgs from the first AVP pc game :o
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 22, 2015, 02:34:12 AM
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 22, 2015, 02:17:03 AM
When it comes down to it the big problem is that this AMAZINGNESS
http://i.stack.imgur.com/5AGwh.jpg
Became THIS dogshit
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/StBMEpWreGk/hqdefault.jpg
Not to mention how unbelievably generic and unoriginal the Engineer design became
http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-hunters/2009/10/21/seth-sfivx-large.jpg
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080724142111/watchmen/images/7/7c/Doctor_Manhattan_(movie).jpg
Lol, this is just too dumb, I need to take a break from this discount forum.
Agreed. If people see the Engineers like that - ie nothing much like the Engineers at all, then they're missing the point.
The one definite plus this film has, is Scott as producer. But I'm expecting more from Prom 2 than Alien: whatever.
The Last Engineer was a nod to Frankenstein and the uncanny effect. First off, the creature was humanoid, about 8 feet tall, but nearly indestructible and incredibly fast and strong. It's eyes in particular were off, however.
Looking at Scott's Last Engineer in Prometheus, I was reminded a great deal of Victor Frankenstein's Creature. And while I prefer the original Space Jockey scene, it is because it is a Gothic Horror scene. Everything is dead, and lit in ghostly shadows and that wonderful, somber, eerie movie is playing. In Prometheus, I thought that scene worked well, but it was alive and not as mysterious.
Quote from: Gash on Mar 23, 2015, 12:36:49 AM
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 22, 2015, 02:34:12 AM
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 22, 2015, 02:17:03 AM
When it comes down to it the big problem is that this AMAZINGNESS
http://i.stack.imgur.com/5AGwh.jpg
Became THIS dogshit
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/StBMEpWreGk/hqdefault.jpg
Not to mention how unbelievably generic and unoriginal the Engineer design became
http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-hunters/2009/10/21/seth-sfivx-large.jpg
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080724142111/watchmen/images/7/7c/Doctor_Manhattan_(movie).jpg
Lol, this is just too dumb, I need to take a break from this discount forum.
Agreed. If people see the Engineers like that - ie nothing much like the Engineers at all, then they're missing the point.
The one definite plus this film has, is Scott as producer. But I'm expecting more from Prom 2 than Alien: whatever.
See the Engineers like what? The incredibly boring design that they are?
Am I the only one who liked the Engineers?
The detail on the Last Engineer's suit was pretty intricate, and given that they made us, it makes sense that we look like them, or vice versa.
I have to wonder how Neil planned to nod to them, in his film.
No you aren't Nick.
As mentioned before some people have no appreciation for the likes of William Blake.
I love the idea of the Engineers (though, like many other things in Prometheus, I found the execution to be a bit off at certain points), but I have a huge problem reconciling them and the Space Jockey into the same sort of being, and by extension accepting Prometheus' human-centric expansion of the universe that Alien had previously presented as cold, dead, and desolate.
Despite my problems that I have with the concept and with Prometheus as a film, however, I remain intrigued to see what the sequel is going to be all about. The talk of it moving farther away from Alien actually strikes me as a good thing, since some of the heavier connections with its parent film were some of its most glaring issues.
Quote from: The Other Mr. Runner on Mar 22, 2015, 01:52:21 AM
He won't trod on Prometheus' toes-- but he'll piss in the faces of fans of Alien³ and Resurrection all with a grin on his twaty little face? God, I wanna punch this director in the dickhead.
f**k him. f**k him with a rusty chib, sew buttons to his eye lids and rub a badger's rancid, hoaching arse in his face. The dirty little bastard claims he isn't getting rid of 3&4, but the next time we hear from him, he appears to be doing exactly that?!
Who let this one note f**k get a hold of Alien---F_U_C_K YOU FOX!
I think people who actually enjoy Alien Resurrection already have a piss kink
the Empire info sounds like this
NB - Alien and Aliens this and that so they r siblings with my proyecto
RS - Neill u know im like the father so prom is cannon too...
NB - ??? what do u want sr? u r having Prom 2
QuoteQuote from: NickisSmart on Mar 23, 2015, 01:26:50 AM
Am I the only one who liked the Engineers?
I have to wonder how Neil planned to nod to them, in his film.
The concept of the engineers is lazy, going human alike and trashing the alien meaning..... Even then Im ok with that but I was having this problems:
The execution is incomplete... the body is great but the face was very important thing and they didnt appear like a menace... theres no one frame out there were they looks menacing or giving horror, and there are a lot when they look stupid...
Now... this deleted scene could gave the whole movie a lot of it was missing at that momento...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOiYMZx4zI#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOiYMZx4zI#ws)
the psychosexual sounds of Noomi r great... a menace feeling... slow and increasing pace....some horror.... not ALIEN HORROR but compare this with Fifield scene...
So the engineer could work, and RS nailed in this scene, but what was he thinking?
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 22, 2015, 11:47:13 PMSome people are clinging to Blomkamp's single comment about not trying to undo 3 and Resurrection, but that came across more as more as him saying that overwriting those two films isn't his goal, it's just something that has to happen in order for him to follow on from Aliens and stay in what he sees as the style of the first two films.
I don't really see how it's "clinging". Him outright saying "I don't want to undo three and four" is a hell of a lot more specific than saying "this is the genetic sibling of the first two".
If this is absolutely a retcon, why's no one just saying that?
Empire have posted the article now: http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=43765 (http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=43765)
Some slight new quotes.
QuoteIn the new issue of Empire - on shelves this Thursday, March 26 - Neill Blomkamp talks a little bit more about his plans for his new Alien movie, which won't, in his words, "tread on the toes" of franchise godfather Ridley Scott's upcoming Prometheus 2.
"I changed the one thing [Scott] felt was bumping Prometheus a little bit," reveals Blomkamp. "One thing that makes me feel good about it is that Ridley is producing it. He likes the idea of what I want to make."
On top of this tantalising titbit, there was another intriguing aside from the South African sci-fi maven: Alien 5, as you might want to call it, will most likely not be called Alien 5.
"I sent the title I wanted to Ridley," says Blomkamp. "It's kinda quite bold, but it gives away too much if I say the title. But in the event that it doesn't work, I'm dead in the water...". What on earth - or, of course, what not on Earth - could it be? Leave your conjecture in the comment box below.
Quote from: Darkness on Mar 23, 2015, 01:32:40 PM
Quote
"I sent the title I wanted to Ridley," says Blomkamp. "It's kinda quite bold, but it gives away too much if I say the title. But in the event that it doesn't work, I'm dead in the water...". What on earth - or, of course, what not on Earth - could it be? Leave your conjecture in the comment box below.
Under the ocean no one can hear you scream?
Beyond what's already wen guessed I have no idea.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 23, 2015, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: Darkness on Mar 23, 2015, 01:32:40 PM
Quote
"I sent the title I wanted to Ridley," says Blomkamp. "It's kinda quite bold, but it gives away too much if I say the title. But in the event that it doesn't work, I'm dead in the water...". What on earth - or, of course, what not on Earth - could it be? Leave your conjecture in the comment box below.
Under the ocean no one can hear you scream?
Aliens: The Abyss?
Dripping-wet engineer/jockey ship that looks like it's spent a lot of time underwater?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageserver.moviepilot.com%2Fwhy-i-m-glad-neill-blomkamp-isn-t-directing-alien-5-blomkamp-s-concept-art-of-derelict-alien-craft.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1172%26amp%3Bheight%3D682&hash=5ad013e79200923c123dd14ae57722c698dcd86e)
The Queen under the water in AVP reverse-engineered itself into black goo, which grew into a Jockey ship and will be uncovered in this film.
#canon
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 23, 2015, 02:17:47 PM
#canon
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bradleywilliamson.com%2FSite%2Fthemed_images%2Funderwater_cannon_bradley_williamson-6.jpg&hash=235d28250faef76d9271713e0c3e2052abb02750)
#cannon
:laugh:
With SM AWOL could Nightmare be persuaded to take on the role of AvPG Canonizer™?
Found some conflicting reports which covers this.. Ropes of Silicon's report seems to suggest the movie is ignoring Alien 3 and Resurrection and even include's Blomkamp's statement on where the film fits, but CinemaBlend's report suggest that it's not ignoring Alien 3 and doesn't even include Blomkamp's statement. Curious why CinemaBlend would omit that... Anyway, see for yourselves.
http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/blomkamps-alien-5-had-to-be-changed-to-satisfy-prometheus-2/ (http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/blomkamps-alien-5-had-to-be-changed-to-satisfy-prometheus-2/)
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-Alien-5-Had-Make-One-Change-Its-Story-70438.html (http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-Alien-5-Had-Make-One-Change-Its-Story-70438.html)
It makes me wonder if some of these would be journalist are in the know of detail as much as we are. I mean CinemaBlend's article links to only their own articles, and one article which the one I've linked to, links to another that Ripley and Hicks might be clones.. but from what I remember, Blomkamp says he's not using any clones for his movie.
Quote from: Gash on Mar 23, 2015, 12:36:49 AM
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 22, 2015, 02:34:12 AM
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 22, 2015, 02:17:03 AM
When it comes down to it the big problem is that this AMAZINGNESS
http://i.stack.imgur.com/5AGwh.jpg
Became THIS dogshit
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/StBMEpWreGk/hqdefault.jpg
Not to mention how unbelievably generic and unoriginal the Engineer design became
http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-hunters/2009/10/21/seth-sfivx-large.jpg
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080724142111/watchmen/images/7/7c/Doctor_Manhattan_(movie).jpg
Lol, this is just too dumb, I need to take a break from this discount forum.
Agreed. If people see the Engineers like that - ie nothing much like the Engineers at all, then they're missing the point.
The one definite plus this film has, is Scott as producer. But I'm expecting more from Prom 2 than Alien: whatever.
Well said.
There's a shitload missing as a fan that I would want to see".
EXPLAIN!!!!
Because as far as Alien 3 goes we as people of this space time continuum understood as that being the sequel to Aliens. So...whatever that was missing certain is new to us.. :o
Quote from: oduodu on Mar 23, 2015, 05:24:38 PM
Quote from: Gash on Mar 23, 2015, 12:36:49 AM
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 22, 2015, 02:34:12 AM
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 22, 2015, 02:17:03 AM
When it comes down to it the big problem is that this AMAZINGNESS
http://i.stack.imgur.com/5AGwh.jpg
Became THIS dogshit
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/StBMEpWreGk/hqdefault.jpg
Not to mention how unbelievably generic and unoriginal the Engineer design became
http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-hunters/2009/10/21/seth-sfivx-large.jpg
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080724142111/watchmen/images/7/7c/Doctor_Manhattan_(movie).jpg
Lol, this is just too dumb, I need to take a break from this discount forum.
Agreed. If people see the Engineers like that - ie nothing much like the Engineers at all, then they're missing the point.
The one definite plus this film has, is Scott as producer. But I'm expecting more from Prom 2 than Alien: whatever.
Well said.
Have your own smug opinions if you want but encouraging mediocre designs and the de-Gigerisation of this series will be detrimental to it!
Thing is though it isn't mediocre, it's even Giger-esqué just in a different manner than his biomechanics.
Look at some of his human figures, although as stated it's more William Blake than Giger- also Prometheus has Giger in it- just not in certain places.
They actively wanted to stray from Giger's style.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 23, 2015, 06:39:42 PM
They actively wanted to stray from Giger's style.
Ridley Scott wanted to stray from Giger and change the original Jockey design - EVERYBODY else said it was a bad idea - they even say so in the making of documentary.
I just think - if it's not broken then don't make something that has about a tenth of the imagination of the original. Don't just change something for the sake of change (which is what Scott did). He has an AWFUL track record these days and shouldn't be f**king with his past magic!
Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 23, 2015, 06:39:42 PM
They actively wanted to stray from Giger's style.
They meaning who- Ridley- yes, the artists didn't. Thus we've got a strange mesh of both.
While I liked the Engineers and the general direction Prometheus went, I have to agree that moving so far away from Giger's vision was a mistake. Carlos Huante had some amazing designs and we didn't get to see any of them.
Here is a video that Carlos Huante made of his unused Prometheus designs. Some awesomeness in there.
https://vimeo.com/55398895
(https://vimeo.com/55398895)
And it's also a shame that it looks like Ridley Scott won't be allowing Blomkamp to touch the derelict in his Alien movie! Well that's what I assume is off limits as is mentioned in the new interview.
They already had an awesome design, the space jokey! no need to redesign anything...
I was watching Furious Gods a couple weeks back, and I couldn't help but think about how rushed/awkward the Giger segment was. It's like they brought him in, showed him some designs, and pushed him out the door.
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 23, 2015, 07:00:31 PM
Here is a video that Carlos Huante made of his unused Prometheus designs. Some awesomeness in there.
https://vimeo.com/55398895
(https://vimeo.com/55398895)
And it's also a shame that it looks like Ridley Scott won't be allowing Blomkamp to touch the derelict in his Alien movie! Well that's what I assume is off limits as is mentioned in the new interview.
Some of that stuff, like the Engineer with underarm wings, is a bit too silly, but shit, there is so much amazing stuff there; the bioships, the incredibly creepy cave creatures, the different ultramorphs. I was especially intrigued at seeing a variety of Engineer which appeared to have a neanderthal-style head. I
seriously hope Ridley takes up some of this stuff in the next movie, as it would be a terribly shame for it all to go to waste.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 23, 2015, 08:08:29 PMI was watching Furious Gods a couple weeks back, and I couldn't help but think about how rushed/awkward the Giger segment was. It's like they brought him in, showed him some designs, and pushed him out the door.
I still really need to see that. I just can't bring myself to shell out on the 3D Blu-ray of a film I don't really want just for a documentary.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 23, 2015, 08:20:02 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 23, 2015, 08:08:29 PMI was watching Furious Gods a couple weeks back, and I couldn't help but think about how rushed/awkward the Giger segment was. It's like they brought him in, showed him some designs, and pushed him out the door.
I still really need to see that. I just can't bring myself to shell out on the 3D Blu-ray of a film I don't really want just for a documentary.
There was a sneaky link to it on another Prometheus forum - probably still being hosted online but I can't remember which forum it was. Pretty sure it was in a Furious Gods topic.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 23, 2015, 08:08:29 PM
I was watching Furious Gods a couple weeks back, and I couldn't help but think about how rushed/awkward the Giger segment was. It's like they brought him in, showed him some designs, and pushed him out the door.
Yeah, I believe I said that in my Bluray review. All felt like they only Giger in there for fan service only, whether he actually did anything or not. Completely wasted. He could have done proper designs for the precursors to the xenomorphs.
Quote from: Darkness on Mar 23, 2015, 08:38:48 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 23, 2015, 08:08:29 PM
I was watching Furious Gods a couple weeks back, and I couldn't help but think about how rushed/awkward the Giger segment was. It's like they brought him in, showed him some designs, and pushed him out the door.
Yeah, I believe I said that in my Bluray review. All felt like they only Giger in there for fan service only, whether he actually did anything or not. Completely wasted. He could have done proper designs for the precursors to the xenomorphs.
What he designed was actually far more interesting, for the Deacon, I agree. But, I suppose they wanted to go in a more naturalistic route. Which is fine, it fits, but it is far more interesting
(https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/deacongigerconcepts.jpg)
But another thing to consider, is interference from the Studio itself on what he designs can make it on screen, and/also how Giger could get carried away with redesign as was the case when he was brought on board in Alien 3. It's probably many reasons people aren't legally allowed to talk about but would know make others angry.
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 23, 2015, 07:00:31 PM
Here is a video that Carlos Huante made of his unused Prometheus designs. Some awesomeness in there.
https://vimeo.com/55398895
(https://vimeo.com/55398895)
And it's also a shame that it looks like Ridley Scott won't be allowing Blomkamp to touch the derelict in his Alien movie! Well that's what I assume is off limits as is mentioned in the new interview.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1379.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah126%2Fkalistosaurio%2FSJ_zps4gtay8hd.png&hash=37fc6ff0b9c77f60f183cac43e6165fed9f8018b)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/10894958_1528275194104377_972884909_n.jpg)
That's what I'm guessing as well, Derelict fine but you can't do things with the SJ.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 23, 2015, 10:30:43 PM
That's what I'm guessing as well, Derelict fine but you can't do things with the SJ.
Awwwww I want the big daddy jockey from Alien! :'( :'(
You know, if Ridley doesn't want to use all of the Huante xeno designs like various ultramorphs, Blomkamp should meld them into his own mythology. If he's trying to create a film with an Alien feel to it, this could work quite well.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 23, 2015, 11:21:22 PM
You know, if Ridley doesn't want to use all of the Huante xeno designs like various ultramorphs, Blomkamp should meld them into his own mythology. If he's trying to create a film with an Alien feel to it, this could work quite well.
Honestly I just want variations of the original two back for the Alien series, you need a reason in universe to go the Huante route.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 23, 2015, 11:25:46 PM
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 23, 2015, 11:21:22 PM
You know, if Ridley doesn't want to use all of the Huante xeno designs like various ultramorphs, Blomkamp should meld them into his own mythology. If he's trying to create a film with an Alien feel to it, this could work quite well.
Honestly I just want variations of the original two back for the Alien series, you need a reason in universe to go the Huante route.
That's essentially what one of the ultramorphs is, just much, much bigger. It could be the final revelation of the adult form of the creature that burst out of the Space Jockey:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocookie.net%2Falienanthology%2Fimages%2Ff%2Ffd%2FUltramorph_concept.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130820103853&hash=cffccabd2a8ad3680fbc61552e79bef5ddc833ba)
If the film doesn't have the Derelict Spacecraft in the film like shown in the concept art, I'm not watching this in theaters perhaps may not buy or ever watch, its more essential to alien then Prometheus since it is featured in both alien & aliens.I will remember this as it could possible be taken oit, so no show in teaser or trailer then I have to resort too a review, ridley just allows things to be what the all to and just let go. The engineers should at least make a cameo they are responsible for all four films in the franchise ?. Don't turn off the fans blomkamp ridley & fox :(
IF jockey tech and the jockey itself really is off limits then it'll be a crying shame. Blomkamp would be a great candidate to explore the jockey mythology more. Ridley Scott should just not be making movies anymore - his track record his too poor. I'd much rather someone else with a strong vision make Prometheus 2. I can only imagine how De-Gigered the jockey home-planet will be now.
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 23, 2015, 06:32:22 PM
Quote from: oduodu on Mar 23, 2015, 05:24:38 PM
Quote from: Gash on Mar 23, 2015, 12:36:49 AM
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 22, 2015, 02:34:12 AM
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 22, 2015, 02:17:03 AM
When it comes down to it the big problem is that this AMAZINGNESS
http://i.stack.imgur.com/5AGwh.jpg
Became THIS dogshit
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/StBMEpWreGk/hqdefault.jpg
Not to mention how unbelievably generic and unoriginal the Engineer design became
http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-hunters/2009/10/21/seth-sfivx-large.jpg
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080724142111/watchmen/images/7/7c/Doctor_Manhattan_(movie).jpg
Lol, this is just too dumb, I need to take a break from this discount forum.
Agreed. If people see the Engineers like that - ie nothing much like the Engineers at all, then they're missing the point.
The one definite plus this film has, is Scott as producer. But I'm expecting more from Prom 2 than Alien: whatever.
Well said.
Have your own smug opinions if you want but encouraging mediocre designs and the de-Gigerisation of this series will be detrimental to it!
well said specifically referred to "But I'm expecting more from Prom 2 than Alien". i dont think it was dogshit but i understand the sentiment. i also do not like the "de gigerisation" as such but ridley gave instructions for that to happen.
what can you say about it really ?? i myself still think that engineers and sj's must be two entities but that's been defeated and thats that. ridley wanted it that way as in engineers equals sj.
what can you do but hope.
i just hope that alien 5 does specifically go back to the atmosphere and elements - original sj egg morphing derelict interior gierverse if you will and does not persue the engineer influence.
who knows.....
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 24, 2015, 10:23:28 AM
IF jockey tech and the jockey itself really is off limits then it'll be a crying shame. Blomkamp would be a great candidate to explore the jockey mythology more. Ridley Scott should just not be making movies anymore - his track record his too poor. I'd much rather someone else with a strong vision make Prometheus 2. I can only imagine how De-Gigered the jockey home-planet will be now.
totally agree
but ridley already defeated that and will he help blomkamp to go the route me and you want. prometheus was a necessary "evil" so to speak.
i like prometheus.
i just wish they would go the engineer route and leave the xenos. and even if they wish leave the alien tie in behind
BUT
will they do that ??
they will keep on teasing but never actually come close to it . that was prometheus's purpose .
Well I just hope that Blomkamp can get his hands on some of that Jockey tech for his movie!
His words (and yes they are just words) of wanting to make a freudian nightmare and have the movie be psychosexual is certainly promising. They are just words though. But I'd much rather someone with that attitude explore the Jockey homeworld and their mythology versus a man in his mid 70s who just say's "f**k this, f**k the fans, I'm just going to do my own thing" and it not be particularly good.
a man in his mid 70s who just say's "f**k this, f**k the fans, I'm just going to do my own thing
still laughing.........
true none the less
i guess ridley will always be the only one who really knows why he did what he did.
it sometimes feels he literally just said: f**k this .........and rushed to get everything done to get to his next movie.
this is the reason why i question lindelof's inclusion as being ridleys decision.
this is confusing the hell out of me.
Jesus! Ridley is 77. Ok, he can just f**k right off!
You two wanna get a room? ;)
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Mar 24, 2015, 04:34:11 PM
You two wanna get a room? ;)
Quote from: oduodu on Mar 24, 2015, 01:41:33 PM
a man in his mid 70s who just say's "f**k this, f**k the fans, I'm just going to do my own thing
still laughing.........
true none the less
i guess ridley will always be the only one who really knows why he did what he did.
it sometimes feels he literally just said: f**k this .........and rushed to get everything done to get to his next movie.
this is the reason why i question lindelof's inclusion as being ridleys decision.
this is confusing the hell out of me.
What's confusing?
A man in his 70's who says 'fu*k the fans. Sound like the perfect man for the job. Film makers should follow their own ideas. And frankly age has nothing to do with creativity and vision. In fact, the more experienced the better. Scott is one of the best at using the newer technologies of film and not letting it go overboard.
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 24, 2015, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Mar 24, 2015, 04:34:11 PM
You two wanna get a room? ;)
Quote from: oduodu on Mar 24, 2015, 01:41:33 PM
a man in his mid 70s who just say's "f**k this, f**k the fans, I'm just going to do my own thing
still laughing.........
true none the less
i guess ridley will always be the only one who really knows why he did what he did.
it sometimes feels he literally just said: f**k this .........and rushed to get everything done to get to his next movie.
this is the reason why i question lindelof's inclusion as being ridleys decision.
this is confusing the hell out of me.
What's confusing?
I am confused about who made the decision to lindeloff the shit out of prometheus.
How did it come to be that the Alien franchise somehow falls under Ridley Scott's "sphere of influence" when the IP is owned by FOX and last film that Scott made for the franchise was mediocre at best?
District 9 happened six years ago and Alien happened a generation ago. If Cameron hadn't pitched Aliens, there wouldn't even be a franchise.
Maybe Ridley and Blomkamp should consult Cameron on what direction to take with their respective films. After all, Cameron is still the only person that his been able to draw from the original film and successfully expand on the universe with universal critical acclaim.
Quote from: Gash on Mar 24, 2015, 06:36:44 PM
A man in his 70's who says 'fu*k the fans. Sound like the perfect man for the job. Film makers should follow their own ideas. And frankly age has nothing to do with creativity and vision. In fact, the more experienced the better. Scott is one of the best at using the newer technologies of film and not letting it go overboard.
Not when the man in question just bulldozes through each movie to get onto the next one because his time is so precious at 77.
The proof is in the pudding - his last bunch of films have been abysmal.
The last really great movie Riddles made was Kingdom of Heaven (the Director's Cut, not the crap theatrical version the studio hacked to bits) and that was ten years ago.
EDIT: Actually American Gangster wasn't too bad, but it wasn't that memorable. To the point where I've seen in three times now and can't remember anything about it.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 24, 2015, 07:49:49 PM
The last really great movie Riddles made was Kingdom of Heaven (the Director's Cut, not the crap theatrical version the studio hacked to bits) and that was ten years ago.
EDIT: Actually American Gangster wasn't too bad, but it wasn't that memorable. To the point where I've seen in three times now and can't remember anything about it.
I did not think much of Kingdom Heaven Director's Cut. Like a lot of Ridley's most recent films it has an inherent flaw that drags it down - in the case of that movie the flaw is in the fact that they cast Orlando Bloom in the lead role who for the life of him cannot carry a movie. I imagine Ridley simply cast him so that he could get a greenlight by getting an actor who had heat at the time - again Mr. Scott bows down to the studio so that he can bulldoze through a film and move on to the next thing.
American Gangster is so-so and has an awfully cheesy ending.
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 24, 2015, 07:57:27 PMI did not think much of Kingdom Heaven Director's Cut. Like a lot of Ridley's most recent films it has an inherent flaw that drags it down - in the case of that movie the flaw is in the fact that they cast Orlando Bloom in the lead role who for the life of him cannot carry a movie.
While I agree Bloom is the weak link, the rest of the movie is just magnificent.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 24, 2015, 07:49:49 PM
The last really great movie Riddles made was Kingdom of Heaven (the Director's Cut, not the crap theatrical version the studio hacked to bits) and that was ten years ago.
EDIT: Actually American Gangster wasn't too bad, but it wasn't that memorable. To the point where I've seen in three times now and can't remember anything about it.
The Jay-Z soundtrack was pretty cool.
As to Prometheus, I say they should let Scott do whatever he wants to create the movies he wants. Yes, we might not get exactly what we were hoping for and yes, there might be a distinct lack of Aliens present (though the other day, it was written that the final film of the trilogy will have an Alien theme). But there's a much better chance of us getting something epic if he's allowed to do something he passionate about. One of the problems about Prometheus is that Fox stuck it's neck in and meddled a bit too much. Not to the extent of what happened with Alien 3, but I believe if Ridley is allowed to do what he wants, we'll get something special.
Quote
One of the problems about Prometheus is that Fox stuck it's neck in and meddled a bit too much. Not to the extent of what happened with Alien 3, but I believe if Ridley is allowed to do what he wants, we'll get something special.
If Ridley does it, here's hoping he's allowed to just do what he wants for real.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 22, 2015, 12:59:37 PM
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Mar 22, 2015, 06:51:22 AMAnyway, I'm more concerned about this:
http://www.aliensversuspredator.net/news/weyland-yutani-using-mind-controlled-xenomorphs-in-alien-5 (http://www.aliensversuspredator.net/news/weyland-yutani-using-mind-controlled-xenomorphs-in-alien-5)
That's fan art. I posted that from its original source a couple days ago.
I posted it on the Facebook page a week or so ago. Lovely piece though.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 23, 2015, 08:08:29 PM
I was watching Furious Gods a couple weeks back, and I couldn't help but think about how rushed/awkward the Giger segment was. It's like they brought him in, showed him some designs, and pushed him out the door.
From what I remember he wasn't down in London long. Only the day, I think. And he almost didn't let Charles include it in the Blu-ray at all.
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 24, 2015, 09:34:03 PM
Quote
One of the problems about Prometheus is that Fox stuck it's neck in and meddled a bit too much. Not to the extent of what happened with Alien 3, but I believe if Ridley is allowed to do what he wants, we'll get something special.
If Ridley does it, here's hoping he's allowed to just do what he wants for real.
That's what happened with Prometheus and it was a wreck. What folk seem to forget is that what made Alien truly special was it was a collaboration. And that's were all the special ingredients came from. Ridley should not be allowed carte blanche.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2015, 10:44:44 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 23, 2015, 08:08:29 PM
I was watching Furious Gods a couple weeks back, and I couldn't help but think about how rushed/awkward the Giger segment was. It's like they brought him in, showed him some designs, and pushed him out the door.
From what I remember he wasn't down in London long. Only the day, I think. And he almost didn't let Charles include it in the Blu-ray at all.
Wasn't aware of that. Was there some sort of tension between Giger and Ridley and/or Fox? I know a lot of the crew wanted to go in a more Giger-like direction, which Ridley didn't want to do for whatever reason.
Quote
That's what happened with Prometheus and it was a wreck. What folk seem to forget is that what made Alien truly special was it was a collaboration. And that's were all the special ingredients came from. Ridley should not be allowed carte blanche.
Well I meant zero studio interference. No high ups suggesting there be no Aliens present etc.
Ultimately I don't want Scott to touch another Alien/Prometheus or Blade Runner movie
It wasn't the studio. That was Lindelof going "it'd be more awesome without Aliens" and Ridley going "duhhh, sure".
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 24, 2015, 10:54:38 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2015, 10:44:44 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 23, 2015, 08:08:29 PM
I was watching Furious Gods a couple weeks back, and I couldn't help but think about how rushed/awkward the Giger segment was. It's like they brought him in, showed him some designs, and pushed him out the door.
From what I remember he wasn't down in London long. Only the day, I think. And he almost didn't let Charles include it in the Blu-ray at all.
Wasn't aware of that. Was there some sort of tension between Giger and Ridley and/or Fox? I know a lot of the crew wanted to go in a more Giger-like direction, which Ridley didn't want to do for whatever reason.
I'm trying to find some quotes for you.
QuoteHicks: Now, that sort of brings us onto something else. Giger. He's a pretty elusive guy and he's never really sort of liked to talk about his work on the films and as I understand it, he nearly didn't appear in the Prometheus set at all. Was there much footage of him that you didn't... couldn't include in the set this time?
Charles: Hmm, no, I mean, there's more footage of him in that meeting he had with Ridley. Might be interesting to see some day but in terms of the narrative point we're trying to make in the documentary. What you see is pretty much what was needed this time. But there was a lot of last minute scramble with Giger, in terms of getting his approval to include that footage. Just because it was so last minute, that didn't give us a lot of room to talk about adding more or to include more like you know, raw uncut moments of him and Ridley collaborating. It was just, it was basically, we had to, we had a date obviously because we can't miss the date and Giger... They were still working out his deal and you know, we had to get his approval and all that which is fine. That's the normal thing anyway.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/charles-de-lauzirika/2/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/charles-de-lauzirika/2/)
Here's what I've got for the approval. Trying to find the info about his duration on location for Prometheus.
QuoteH.R. Giger had a little involvement in production. Ridley Scott said he worked on the movie for 11 months just creating some murals for the first chamber the characters come across. On the Prometheus Blu-Ray, Giger was seen meeting with Ridley Scott and he did some sketches of the creatures. Scott said some of his ideas were interesting but he didn't enough time to pursue them. No mention of Giger creating the murals was mentioned in the Blu-Ray features.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/alien-movies/prometheus/trivia/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/alien-movies/prometheus/trivia/)
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2011/12/17/ridley-scott-talks-prometheus-giger-xenomorphs/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2011/12/17/ridley-scott-talks-prometheus-giger-xenomorphs/)
So he did actually come to Shepperton. I must have mis-remembered that. Definitely didn't misremember the approval stuff though.
Hmm, interesting. I actually had heard the mural quote, back around the time of the film's release. Had no clue about the rights issues with the footage, though.
I'd be curious to someday see more footage of him working with the Prometheus crew, if they ever do get the opportunity to release it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2015, 11:06:54 PM
It wasn't the studio. That was Lindelof going "it'd be more awesome without Aliens" and Ridley going "duhhh, sure".
Jon Spaights said in an interview that it came from very high up in Fox to remove the Aliens.
It's generally thought to be a "suggestion" from Tom Rothman himself.
Lindelof being the brown-nose that he is probably just reiterated that it would be a GREAT IDEA!!!!!
Ugh, Fox sometimes man.
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 24, 2015, 11:50:49 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2015, 11:06:54 PM
It wasn't the studio. That was Lindelof going "it'd be more awesome without Aliens" and Ridley going "duhhh, sure".
Jon Spaights said in an interview that it came from very high up in Fox to remove the Aliens.
It's generally thought to be a "suggestion" from Tom Rothman himself.
Lindelof being the brown-nose that he is probably just reiterated that it would be a GREAT IDEA!!!!!
Can you link me?
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 24, 2015, 11:50:49 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2015, 11:06:54 PM
It wasn't the studio. That was Lindelof going "it'd be more awesome without Aliens" and Ridley going "duhhh, sure".
Jon Spaights said in an interview that it came from very high up in Fox to remove the Aliens.
Lindelof being the brown-nose that he is probably just reiterated that it would be a GREAT IDEA!!!!!
The people high up at Fox realized that Spaihts script was a bit of a mess. You had corn all over the place. The whole thing was cheesy. I assume, it was the point, since the direction going in, was to reflect on everything. But they went the other direction quick because they realized that direction wasn't working.
If you actually read the script before Lindelof you would be thanking him. The studio saw what was happening, and perhaps thought if this film bombed it was likely the end of everything they could make from this franchise, and quickly ran and got another screen writer and pulled Ridley aside and probably said something along the lines of "Hey, this is getting out of control, you need to limit some of the stuff going on, or this film will tank. How about, expand the possibilities by removing the Aliens. Set up a new set of creatures, things that you can do more with, so the films will have more to go on." And he probably agreed. And Lindelof said as much about the script before him, it had serious, serious flaws.
Not to say Lindelof's script is a shining monument to screen writing but to figure there's this grand Fox conspiracy to ruin Alien is ridiculous. Fox has money in mind, sure, but that's Capitalism, Capitalism involved in creativity is more the problem in regards to that.
If the remaining fans of Alien are anything to go by, nobody exactly even knows what they want out of an Alien film.
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 12:02:07 AM
If you actually read the script before Lindelof you would be thanking him.
Not really - Spaiht's script was much more consistant and a far better read than what ended up on screen in Prometheus. Sure, it was rough but it was only an earlier draft and David turned out far better in the finished product - something I attribute more to Fassbender than anything Lindalof did - and the ending was pretty poor (glad they moved it to another moon in Prometheus) but Engineers was a more solid attempt. None of the deliberate vagueness in an attempt to be intelligent.
Personally overall I just want complete abandon of AVP & A:R style films in the franchise, beyond that I'm just excited to see what we get.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 25, 2015, 12:05:41 AM
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 12:02:07 AM
If you actually read the script before Lindelof you would be thanking him.
Not really - Spaiht's script was much more consistant and a far better read than what ended up on screen in Prometheus. Sure, it was rough but it was only an earlier draft and David turned out far better in the finished product - something I attribute more to Fassbender than anything Lindalof did - and the ending was pretty poor (glad they moved it to another moon in Prometheus) but Engineers was a more solid attempt. None of the deliberate vagueness in an attempt to be intelligent.
Shaw/Watts gets impaled in the leg (legs tend to be mostly muscle on bone, ouch) by a giant tail from an Ultramorph after she buzzsaws it in the head, and acid spills out that does nothing but damage her helmet she has remove quick and is able to limp away, this being after of course, she gets a procedure that cuts her open and removes her fast growing fetus. Aliens come aliens go, and it is a complete and total wreck. If you had this film, I guarantee, you would not like it.
As I said, the ending was poor.
Over all, though, no I don't agree with you at all. Prometheus was a wreck of a film. Engineers wasn't. It had much better characters. The basic plot was better (not some abstract mission funded because somehow Weyland thought he'd be granted eternal life but based on discovery and evidence pointing towards terraforming technology. The relationship between the creatures was made more sense - not some kinda things like Aliens, but not quite, but they look like them anyway. Actual prototype versions of the Aliens was far better than the ambiguous things in Prometheus.
But I think it's pretty clear we wont be agreeing on this.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2015, 11:56:57 PM
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 24, 2015, 11:50:49 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2015, 11:06:54 PM
It wasn't the studio. That was Lindelof going "it'd be more awesome without Aliens" and Ridley going "duhhh, sure".
Jon Spaights said in an interview that it came from very high up in Fox to remove the Aliens.
It's generally thought to be a "suggestion" from Tom Rothman himself.
Lindelof being the brown-nose that he is probably just reiterated that it would be a GREAT IDEA!!!!!
Can you link me?
http://collider.com/prometheus-extended-cut-original-script/ (http://collider.com/prometheus-extended-cut-original-script/)
Spaihts explains:
A lot of that push came from the studio very high up; they were interested in doing something original and not one more franchise film. That really came to a head at the studio – the major push to focus on the new mythology of Prometheus and dial the Aliens as far back as we could came down from the studio.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 25, 2015, 12:15:24 AM
As I said, the ending was poor.
Over all, though, no I don't agree with you at all. Prometheus was a wreck of a film. Engineers wasn't. It had much better characters. The basic plot was better (not some abstract mission funded because somehow Weyland thought he'd be granted eternal life but based on discovery and evidence pointing towards terraforming technology. The relationship between the creatures was made more sense - not some kinda things like Aliens, but not quite, but they look like them anyway. Actual prototype versions of the Aliens was far better than the ambiguous things in Prometheus.
But I think it's pretty clear we wont be agreeing on this.
I think it was a good call for them to edit the script in a direction away from Spaihts script, because there were too many creatures, and the characters had too much serious lines impacting lines that fall short, and it really, maybe could have been better off with more re-writes, but I think going in the opposite direction was fine, better even. The film we got was no masterpiece, I don't watch the Theatrical cut, it's edited poorly, it reflects the largest faults of Lindelof's script. But how the characters act, is so unbelievable. This is also true for Vickers and David, who fall seriously flat and have are obvious Bond Villains. David especially is so f**king evil, there's nothing subtle to anything about him. There's nothing subtle about the script at all. Trying to force terraforming as the main interest is just a cheap tie in to Aliens, all the creatures feel like merchandising because of how quick they come and go. It is filled with ridiculousness and it takes itself way too seriously to boot.
Could there be a middle ground? Sure, absolutely. But Spaihts script as it is, would not be a good film, it feels very much like throwing ideas to the wall and seeing what sticks.
Yeah we disagree, but don't take it as I'm being mean or anything. I just really think ultimately by becoming more open minded to what they wanted to do, that we wouldn't have these disagreements anyways. Prometheus is such a sore spot for everybody.
Come to think of it, if they made a Prometheus 2 that doesn't star Elizabeth Shaw then the sequel might actually have a chance of being liked by those who hate the 1st one. What do you guys think? Is there a chance of that happening or did I miss a news post saying Noomi Rapace already signed on for P2?
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 25, 2015, 02:27:56 AM
Come to think of it, if they made a Prometheus 2 that doesn't star Elizabeth Shaw then the sequel might actually have a chance of being liked by those who hate the 1st one. What do you guys think? Is there a chance of that happening or did I miss a news post saying Noomi Rapace already signed on for P2?
That wouldn't make any sense, as the story would go off the rails. I'm actually really curious as to what will happen to Shaw and David, I just want the movie to be a little better than the last one.
I hope they find a derelict world or colony and end up opening Pandoras box again.
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 12:02:07 AMIf you actually read the script before Lindelof you would be thanking him.
Spaihts' script needed some touching up, sure, but it was leagues more coherant than the mess Lindelof turned it into.
Spaihts script made the alien into a joke that was easily dealt with by simple means. What we got in prometheus was better in that the alien wasn't made into a pussy.
Like I said, it needed some touching up. But even with its faults, it was still far better than the movie they made.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 25, 2015, 01:33:29 PM
Like I said, it needed some touching up. But even with its faults, it was still far better than the movie they made.
It really wasn't. What's on screen, debatable. The characters were cardboard cut outs (worse even then what ended on screen), and the creatures came and went, incredibly quickly. Like I said, it felt like they were throwing things to a wall and seeing what stuck.
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 01:56:30 PMThe characters were cardboard cut outs (worse even then what ended on screen)
Considering how laughably undeveloped the characters in the finished film are, I find this a truly puzzling criticism to make.
Not to mention character often comes from the actors more than the script. That characters on the pages of
Alien aren't anything to shout about, it was the performances that brought them to life.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 25, 2015, 02:05:27 PM
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 01:56:30 PMThe characters were cardboard cut outs (worse even then what ended on screen)
Considering how laughably undeveloped the characters in the finished film are, I find this a truly puzzling criticism to make.
Not to mention character often comes from the actors more than the script. That characters on the pages of Alien aren't anything to shout about, it was the performances that brought them to life.
David in Spaihts script went 0-100 in less than a second nearly every scene. There was nothing subtle about his character at all. Same with Vickers, really, again, worse than what ended up on screen. More mercs were introduced but they're gone through faster than the nameless mooks, indeed, they have names but they're just more like Tool #1 and Tool #2. So many of these characters add up into Alien fodder.
You can criminally under invest in character development and that would be better than failing to deliver a coherent background to one.
It just read the countless cheesy comic books released over the years.Like you could recycle visuals from it, sure, but the core of that script felt unmotivated.
No. It felt focused and knew what it wanted to achieve in terms of narrative. Which it did. Prometheus was a completely unfocused mess of a narrative with no internal integrity.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 25, 2015, 02:14:18 PM
No. It felt focused and knew what it wanted to achieve in terms of narrative. Which it did. Prometheus was a completely unfocused mess of a narrative with no internal integrity.
What is internal integrity? Spaihts' script felt like a couple hours of fan service. It was essentially what we got with more over-dramatic plotting and despicable mooks with over several variations on the creature that felt more like merchandising than thought out. It had the same flaws the theatrical cut of Prometheus has, it only amplified them and made them obvious.
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:12:18 PMMore mercs were introduced but they're gone through faster than the nameless mooks, indeed, they have names but they're just more like Tool #1 and Tool #2. So many of these characters add up into Alien fodder.
I forgot how pivotal Mercenary 1, Mercenary 2, Mercenary 3 and Mercenary 4 were in
Prometheus.
That's even how they're listed in the credits.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 25, 2015, 02:30:20 PM
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:12:18 PMMore mercs were introduced but they're gone through faster than the nameless mooks, indeed, they have names but they're just more like Tool #1 and Tool #2. So many of these characters add up into Alien fodder.
I forgot how pivotal Mercenary 1, Mercenary 2, Mercenary 3 and Mercenary 4 were in Prometheus.
That's even how they're listed in the credits.
They served the same purpose in Spaihts script, though.
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:31:19 PMThey served the same purpose in Spaihts script, though.
I'm not denying that. But you're trying to us it as evidence for Spaihts script being inferior, when the end film did EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
Pot - kettle.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 25, 2015, 02:33:13 PM
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:31:19 PMThey served the same purpose in Spaihts script, though.
I'm not denying that. But you're trying to us it as evidence for Spaihts script being inferior, when the end film did EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
Pot - kettle.
There are more reasons than that why Spaihts script was draft-like. Which is what it was. It was a draft. It could have been sanded down one way or another into a better film, it had great visuals.
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:35:52 PMThere are more reasons than that why Spaihts script was draft-like. Which is what it was. It was a draft. It could have been sanded down one way or another into a better film, it had great visuals.
I've never denied that.
But it was at least coherent, with characters who weren't utter retards.
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:18:09 PM
What is internal integrity?
It stands up to scrutiny and it makes sense. The narrative makes sense. I'm not saying it was perfect - as I've said before, it was rough. And the film did David far better - but it wasn't a mess. Which is my problem with Prometheus. It was a complete narrative mess.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 25, 2015, 04:24:07 PM
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:18:09 PM
What is internal integrity?
It stands up to scrutiny and it makes sense. The narrative makes sense. I'm not saying it was perfect - as I've said before, it was rough. And the film did David far better - but it wasn't a mess. Which is my problem with Prometheus. It was a complete narrative mess.
Considering a writer for Lost wrote it, I don't think that's much of a surprise; I heard the series finale was quite disappointing.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 25, 2015, 04:24:07 PM
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:18:09 PM
What is internal integrity?
It stands up to scrutiny and it makes sense. The narrative makes sense. I'm not saying it was perfect - as I've said before, it was rough. And the film did David far better - but it wasn't a mess. Which is my problem with Prometheus. It was a complete narrative mess.
And I agree. I just enjoy playing the Devil's Advocate. I just think, Lindelof-era Prometheus did have much more
implied, than Spaihts. On their own they both add and subtract their faults. Lindelof's faults tended to be obvious with character goofiness that should have been caught in editing. Spaihts had goofiness from the problems with sudden and falling action and scenes that were absolutely bonkers, a lot of it felt unbelievable, with in my opinion, too much fan service. The general fault is that everything feels unbelievable, which is not the direction anyone should have gone if you're trying to sell the Space Jockeys were actually men. That said, it still has subtlties I think complimented it better with Lindelof than with Spaihts, which ultimately saved it for me, so long as the theatrical cut isn't what I'm watching. Key word for Prometheus would be disorganized, the entire production really.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2015, 11:06:54 PM
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/charles-de-lauzirika/2/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/charles-de-lauzirika/2/)
Here's what I've got for the approval. Trying to find the info about his duration on location for Prometheus.
QuoteH.R. Giger had a little involvement in production. Ridley Scott said he worked on the movie for 11 months just creating some murals for the first chamber the characters come across. On the Prometheus Blu-Ray, Giger was seen meeting with Ridley Scott and he did some sketches of the creatures. Scott said some of his ideas were interesting but he didn't enough time to pursue them. No mention of Giger creating the murals was mentioned in the Blu-Ray features.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/alien-movies/prometheus/trivia/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/alien-movies/prometheus/trivia/)
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2011/12/17/ridley-scott-talks-prometheus-giger-xenomorphs/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2011/12/17/ridley-scott-talks-prometheus-giger-xenomorphs/)
So he did actually come to Shepperton. I must have mis-remembered that. Definitely didn't misremember the approval stuff though.
So I've been listening to this podcast with Charles http://geeknation.com/podcasts/killer-pov-ep-95-crave-aliens-and-some-david-lynch/ (http://geeknation.com/podcasts/killer-pov-ep-95-crave-aliens-and-some-david-lynch/) and he mentions that Giger was only on set at Prometheus for a day. :-\ I'm just going to check over my messages with Charles to see and if I can't find anything I'll just ask him.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 26, 2015, 10:40:31 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2015, 11:06:54 PM
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/charles-de-lauzirika/2/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/charles-de-lauzirika/2/)
Here's what I've got for the approval. Trying to find the info about his duration on location for Prometheus.
QuoteH.R. Giger had a little involvement in production. Ridley Scott said he worked on the movie for 11 months just creating some murals for the first chamber the characters come across. On the Prometheus Blu-Ray, Giger was seen meeting with Ridley Scott and he did some sketches of the creatures. Scott said some of his ideas were interesting but he didn't enough time to pursue them. No mention of Giger creating the murals was mentioned in the Blu-Ray features.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/alien-movies/prometheus/trivia/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/alien-movies/prometheus/trivia/)
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2011/12/17/ridley-scott-talks-prometheus-giger-xenomorphs/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2011/12/17/ridley-scott-talks-prometheus-giger-xenomorphs/)
So he did actually come to Shepperton. I must have mis-remembered that. Definitely didn't misremember the approval stuff though.
So I've been listening to this podcast with Charles http://geeknation.com/podcasts/killer-pov-ep-95-crave-aliens-and-some-david-lynch/ (http://geeknation.com/podcasts/killer-pov-ep-95-crave-aliens-and-some-david-lynch/) and he mentions that Giger was only on set at Prometheus for a day. :-\ I'm just going to check over my messages with Charles to see and if I can't find anything I'll just ask him.
Did you do an podcast with a novel writer who said Fox were thinking of retconning A3 and AR?
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 26, 2015, 11:15:45 AMDid you do an podcast with a novel writer who said Fox were thinking of retconning A3 and AR?
I presume you mean James A. Moore, author of
Sea of Sorrows. He was initially told to ignore the third and fourth films, but then the studio changed their mind and he had to alter his book accordingly. The end result includes specific references to the later films.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 26, 2015, 11:19:37 AM
Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 26, 2015, 11:15:45 AMDid you do an podcast with a novel writer who said Fox were thinking of retconning A3 and AR?
I presume you mean James A. Moore, author of Sea of Sorrows. He was initially told to ignore the third and fourth films, but then the studio changed their mind and he had to alter his book accordingly. The end result includes specific references to the later films.
As HuDa says.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/files/podcasts/avpg_pc_episode17.mp3 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/files/podcasts/avpg_pc_episode17.mp3)
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/files/podcasts/avpg_pc_episode20.mp3 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/files/podcasts/avpg_pc_episode20.mp3)
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/podcasts/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/podcasts/)
Cool I suppose Im just trying to figure out what ol Blomkamp's possibilities are. Personally hoping for it not to retcon 3 and 4.
I think that's a pretty unlikely road at the moment.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 26, 2015, 12:59:33 PM
I think that's a pretty unlikely road at the moment.
:'(
So if it's not retcon, it's just going to split off in an alternate timeline?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 26, 2015, 12:59:33 PM
I think that's a pretty unlikely road at the moment.
Unlikely in that it's a retcon or unlikely that it's not a retcon? You'll have to forgive me being easily confused.
What If We Could Control The Aliens?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1MY9hU1.jpg&hash=8cc7d4bfdeaa0cb3f7df5d0c1db83e4e8ca5db09)
Artist Marek Okon recently had an idea: what if instead of trying to shoot the Aliens, we could control them instead? It's a premise that's actually been explored in the universe's fiction before, but that certainly didn't look as cool as this concept does.
The idea that an Alien movie needs to steer clear of a Prometheus movie is idiotic.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 27, 2015, 07:51:55 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 26, 2015, 12:59:33 PM
I think that's a pretty unlikely road at the moment.
Unlikely in that it's a retcon or unlikely that it's not a retcon? You'll have to forgive me being easily confused.
Unlikely that it will be anything other than an alternate sequel to Aliens.
Why would it be anything other than an alternate sequel to Aliens? And how do you tell the difference between that and retcon?
Is risky but interesting... WY finally achieve it... makes me think about this:
The alien coming from a person ihas a brain/mind very diferent from an animal like a dog/cow, a more suseptible brain controlled type.
It will be a retcon, I reckon. I'm saying it's unlikely we'll see anything other than some sort of retcon/alternate sequel to Aliens. Judging by Neill's comments, this isn't going to be a continuation of Alien Resurrection and without that the retcon direction (as much as I wish it wasn't) is the only real direction he has to go.
Quote from: Lucifero on Mar 27, 2015, 07:59:09 AMWhat If We Could Control The Aliens?
Someone posted this elsewhere.
It's f*cking stupid. And totally undermines the Alien as a character.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 27, 2015, 08:29:26 AM
It will be a retcon, I reckon. I'm saying it's unlikely we'll see anything other than some sort of retcon/alternate sequel to Aliens. Judging by Neill's comments, this isn't going to be a continuation of Alien Resurrection and without that the retcon direction (as much as I wish it wasn't) is the only real direction he has to go.
Whether the movie is a success or flop with fans... I'll always consider Alien 3 and Resurrection to be parts of the series and will always consider and perhaps follow that path. At this point.. why not?
I'll always consider 3, Res, and this as part of the series, and watch whichever I feel up to at the moment (or all of them if I'm doing a franchise viewing). Just because two films can't coexist together in a single continuity doesn't make one any more relevant than the other. They're simply alternative takes by different filmmakers in a series that is known for its alternative takes by different filmmakers.
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 25, 2015, 02:33:13 PM
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:31:19 PMThey served the same purpose in Spaihts script, though.
I'm not denying that. But you're trying to us it as evidence for Spaihts script being inferior, when the end film did EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
Pot - kettle.
There are more reasons than that why Spaihts script was draft-like. Which is what it was. It was a draft. It could have been sanded down one way or another into a better film, it had great visuals.
Yes we don't know if that was number 1 or number 8 of the drafts he wrote.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 27, 2015, 08:29:50 AM
Quote from: Lucifero on Mar 27, 2015, 07:59:09 AMWhat If We Could Control The Aliens?
Someone posted this elsewhere.
It's f*cking stupid. And totally undermines the Alien as a character.
^^^This. So much this.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 27, 2015, 02:32:59 PM
I'll always consider 3, Res, and this as part of the series, and watch whichever I feel up to at the moment (or all of them if I'm doing a franchise viewing). Just because two films can't coexist together in a single continuity doesn't make one any more relevant than the other. They're simply alternative takes by different filmmakers in a series that is known for its alternative takes by different filmmakers.
MULTIVERSE!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6ALySsPXt0# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6ALySsPXt0#)
Well if the post-Resurrection television show I'm writing ever pans out, a multiverse might be the only option left.
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Mar 27, 2015, 06:12:58 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 27, 2015, 08:29:50 AM
Quote from: Lucifero on Mar 27, 2015, 07:59:09 AMWhat If We Could Control The Aliens?
Someone posted this elsewhere.
It's f*cking stupid. And totally undermines the Alien as a character.
^^^This. So much this.
Cameron undermined already a lot of what the monster was in the first movie. They were bugs. And they were controlled by the queen, so this is not new.
Control is not the same thing as respect.
Quote from: bioweapon on Mar 27, 2015, 10:52:16 PM
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Mar 27, 2015, 06:12:58 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 27, 2015, 08:29:50 AM
Quote from: Lucifero on Mar 27, 2015, 07:59:09 AMWhat If We Could Control The Aliens?
Someone posted this elsewhere.
It's f*cking stupid. And totally undermines the Alien as a character.
^^^This. So much this.
Cameron undermined already a lot of what the monster was in the first movie. They were bugs. And they were controlled by the queen, so this is not new.
I agree, but "controlled by an Queen Alien" is not the same as "controlled by humans".
I don't wish to see matters made worse.
They respect the Queen, there is no evidence to say controlled.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 27, 2015, 11:15:19 PM
They respect the Queen, there is no evidence to say controlled.
That's what I was implying - that there's a difference.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 27, 2015, 11:18:09 PM
They respect the Queen, there is no evidence to say controlled.
A queen implies a hive-mind mentality. Do drones respect the queen be, or does she control them?
"These things ain't ants man."
It's clearly implied the Queen exerts some kind of control over the Warriors. She tells them to back away when Ripley threatens the eggs.
Yes, the same way my mother has control over me. :P
The queen has authority, but that alone doesn't make the warriors blind in their obedience.
Aliens didn't undermine anything.
It depends one what you mean by authority. I don't think you can psycho-analyze an Alien or try and understand an Alien's life in a sociological frame as humans. The Queen isn't much of an authority to us, as could be seen as a resource. Most animals would see it that way, someone who can drive the population further and perhaps guide them as a better tactician.
Leaders do not exist to be monarchs in a functional caste system like an Alien one, they exist to prove they can provide to the greater whole of Aliens. You see these in ants, and termites. If an ant Queen proves it cannot provide for the hive, I believe it is eaten alive.
why does this film have to becareful not to tread on Prometheus 2 toes as from what ridley scott has been saying he wants to get away from the engineers and the xenomorphs don't like the way that what ridley wants he gets I would stick with the original plan that blomkamp had as Prometheus was ok and not that great if this new aliens movie flops ill blame ridley.i say get Cameron back to work with blomkamp
Quote from: jimbob30 on Mar 28, 2015, 06:17:38 PM
why does this film have to becareful not to tread on Prometheus 2 toes
Because Ridley is producing.
As far as Ridley's comments about moving away from Aliens/Engineers, who knows what's true anymore? His mind is constantly flip-flopping, it seems. Even if Prom 2 doesn't feature any Aliens (likely) or Engineers (unlikely), I kind of expect their essence or style to carry some sort of weight, even indirectly, on the film.
For all we know the changes Blomkamp was asked to make have to do with the design of his Derelict/Juggernaut. Maybe he and Ridley will come to some sort of compromise. Only time will tell, really.
Quote from: jimbob30 on Mar 28, 2015, 06:17:38 PM
why does this film have to becareful not to tread on Prometheus 2 toes as from what ridley scott has been saying he wants to get away from the engineers and the xenomorphs don't like the way that what ridley wants he gets I would stick with the original plan that blomkamp had as Prometheus was ok and not that great if this new aliens movie flops ill blame ridley.i say get Cameron back to work with blomkamp
While the Aliens won't be in Prometheus 2, I believe Engineer tech will be featured in Alien 5 so I imagine they want to iron out a few inconsistencies.
I hope they are able to make it look more like the Alien incarnation than the Prometheus incarnation. Perhaps they can handwave it and insinuate that the Alien Derelict is from a different era than the Prometheus Juggernaut.
Isn't that implied anyway? I always took it that the derelict was a much more ancient craft than the juggernaut, partially it's design and partially that it's carrying eggs, rather than a distillation of the eggs. Also of course the fact that it's implied to have rested on the planetoid for untold millennia rather than a couple of thousand years
We don't quite know that the goo is a 'distillation' of the eggs.
Well to me that's part of the fun of Prometheus. There's an ambiguity despite obvious design elements evoking certain connections. The urn room is reminiscent of the egg chamber, but in a more organised and therefore possibly industrial scale. It implies, maybe, that the Engineers have advanced the bio weapon from the basic egg to something more targetable, but just as dangerous in it's own way.
The Derelict certainly looks quite ancient, but if it's thousands of years older than what we saw in Prometheus, why does it look exactly the same? You'd think that Engineer flight technology would have gotten better in that time.
The openings look even more vaginal, they became less timid. Probably miss them as they're now all asexual.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 29, 2015, 01:00:05 AM
The Derelict certainly looks quite ancient, but if it's thousands of years older than what we saw in Prometheus, why does it look exactly the same? You'd think that Engineer flight technology would have gotten better in that time.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. : P
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 29, 2015, 01:00:05 AM
The Derelict certainly looks quite ancient, but if it's thousands of years older than what we saw in Prometheus, why does it look exactly the same? You'd think that Engineer flight technology would have gotten better in that time.
Well to be fair, LV-223 was left derelict for quite some time as well, and the film was originally meant to be an Alien prequel before Riddles copped out and sent that project sideways.
As far as why the assymetrical-shaped 'juggernaut' craft seen in PROMETHEUS is essentially the same design (give or take a few details) as the long-derelict one seen in a different place in ALIEN (and ALIENS)...it could be that the version seen in PROMETHEUS was made around the *same* era to begin with (along with the other similar ships presumably underneath the other mounds too).
In fact, ALL the technology that the PROMETHEUS crew find on LV-223 could be roughly as old as the 'juggernaut' seen in ALIEN for all we know...considering we *don't know* how long that surviving 'Engineer' was kept functioning in 'stasis'. Judging by the many dessicated 'Engineer' bodies/'suits' that Millburn and Fifield come across, the whole complex is very, very old indeed - perhaps as old as the ALIEN 'derelict'. The fact that everything is still functioning is unsurprising...considering the supposedly technologically-advanced nature of the otherworldly 'Engineers' and the unknown, weirdly-exotic materials and designs they have come up with - remember, the 'warning' signal that the crew of ALIEN came across was still working fine after however many years the 'derelict' had been there. In addition, even the 'eggs' stored inside the hold of the 'derelict' still had a working layer of 'protection' over them, when Kane went to investigate.
(In fact, while it's still possible to just 'imagine' that the 'Space Jockey' seen in ALIEN was indeed the skeleton of a giant, 'snorkel-faced' alien creature of some sort, completely *separate* from the 'Engineer' race...if I had to compromise due to Ridley's 're-imagining' of Giger's original design, I guess I like the possibility that one of the 'Engineers' from the PROMETHEUS movie had managed to flee from the unknown 'outbreak' in one of the 'juggernauts' at the time, but was 'infected' beforehand...and consequently crashed on the planetoid seen in ALIEN soon after! ;D )
However, even if the ships in ALIEN and PROMETHEUS were made in *different* eras to each other, I still like to think that the main reason that there are only minimal design changes to the 'U' shape of the 'juggernauts'...is the fact that the overall design was so successful to begin with, and that there was no need for the 'Engineers' to change things drastically whatsoever. And given that the 'juggernauts' seem to be made of such exotic materials, these things were likely capable of lasting and working for many, many years - probably thousands, and perhaps millions...
Still, before PROMETHEUS came out, I recall imagining that it would perhaps be quite neat to see some other kind of 'Space Jockey' craft too, especially if there was some kind of 'fleet' shot in space of them all (which there wasn't, as it turned out :P ) For instance, I'd even imagined what a possible 'Mothership' might have looked like - a gigantic, non-spikey, 'Giger'-esque 'sea-urchin' shape which allowed for a group of 'Space Jockey' ships to emerge from an opening underneath. Oh, and by the way, I'd also imagined these 'U'-shaped ships to spin around in a slow, boomerang-like way as they flew forwards... ;D
There's actually a bit of PROMETHEUS concept art which seems to show an alternative 'Engineer' ship design here - http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/192815_326268787470185_1113144400_o.jpg (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/192815_326268787470185_1113144400_o.jpg)
However, it pales beside the strangeness of Giger's orginal assymetrical design, and only makes me wish that we'd seen another Giger-designed ship for the start of the movie, compared to the relatively standard-looking 'ufo' we ended up with.
I say don't explain anything about the ships differences. It's pretty easy to assume they are different designs, classes or what not. Not every rivet has to be explained. Why would they be the same any ways? Look at the ships on our Navy. There are tons of different designs.
Quote from: Gash on Mar 28, 2015, 10:27:17 PM
Isn't that implied anyway? I always took it that the derelict was a much more ancient craft than the juggernaut, partially it's design and partially that it's carrying eggs, rather than a distillation of the eggs. Also of course the fact that it's implied to have rested on the planetoid for untold millennia rather than a couple of thousand years
Not necessarily true. Now, I'm no anthropologist, or geologist, biologist, or paleontologist. With Prometheus we're given that everything they make is biomechanical and etched from rock. Now we're given from here, the assumption everything works in the same biological logic that the craft from Alien has, it's biomechanical, still, in different states of preservation. But, the Pilot's chair in the Derelict is more decomposed and heavily bloated, the halls rotting to show the bones and skeletal structure. I just assume, that it was from 2000 years ago and not earlier, because the facilities are so close together, really. Aside from that, even though it's said it's fossilized, combined with the heavy environmental conditions of LV-426, the biological material making up the craft, with nothing to feed on, turned on itself (maybe in a natural mechanism to erase the craft from existence), and everything went in a state of decomposition, rapid mummification (I don't know how), and semi-fossilization. It's not entirely "fossil", it resembles more a mammoth found in ice than a fossil. It's bloated and white, but there are still shades of yellow, pink, and red on it.
While perhaps not carrying the urns, maybe it was carrying eggs? A strain of something. We don't exactly know they didn't do that, who knows, maybe the eggs themselves were once urns, urns that accidentally activated. I just don't think that it's entirely likely it's that old considering the distance from LV-426 and LV-223. Sure, they could have avoided it do to the distress beacon, like "Let's not go there, just avoid it', but I don't find it likely. The facility on LV-223 was, I'm assuming, strictly for Earth in whatever capacity, it wasn't for anything else as-far-as-we-know, if it was and existed for longer than humans, longer than 500,000 years, then you would have to explain how the rock hasn't eroded, been heavily weathered. So, in that scenario, the derelict lands first before the facility on LV-223 is established. It would be pretty unwise to build a facility near a containment breach.
Given everything, I find it more likely that the derelict was one of the craft that evacuated LV-223, but didn't make it. Why there are eggs instead of urns, I don't know.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 29, 2015, 01:00:05 AM
The Derelict certainly looks quite ancient, but if it's thousands of years older than what we saw in Prometheus, why does it look exactly the same? You'd think that Engineer flight technology would have gotten better in that time.
To be fair they shouldn't know how old the ship(s) in Prometheus were because they used carbon dating to measure the age of something that's not even from or on Earth it for some reason. Basically a complete waste of time.
I'd put money on Ridley's chat with Blomkamp being that he wants to continue with his destruction of the myterious Space Jockey mythology by continuing its abuse with more 'ancient astronaut' Engineers shennanigans. Chances are our Niell wasn't too fond of it and wanted to go back to how it was perceived in original Alien films.
That's the impression I got too, irn. Only time will tell.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 29, 2015, 01:00:05 AM
The Derelict certainly looks quite ancient, but if it's thousands of years older than what we saw in Prometheus, why does it look exactly the same?
Scott said that they are ''brother'' ships separated in design by aprox 200 years. This can be interpreted that they are either 2 different classes of ships used in parallel by the engineers, or the Juggernaut is a more advanced, newer version of the Derelict.
QuoteYou'd think that Engineer flight technology would have gotten better in that time.
Don't attribute the human way of doing things to an alien species. Just because it's newer doesn't mean it must look differently. If they are weird enough to have a croissant shaped ship instead of a aerodynamic lookin one, they are perfectly capable of doing other weird things by our standards
Quote from: oduodu on Mar 27, 2015, 03:34:31 PM
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 25, 2015, 02:33:13 PM
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:31:19 PMThey served the same purpose in Spaihts script, though.
I'm not denying that. But you're trying to us it as evidence for Spaihts script being inferior, when the end film did EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
Pot - kettle.
There are more reasons than that why Spaihts script was draft-like. Which is what it was. It was a draft. It could have been sanded down one way or another into a better film, it had great visuals.
Yes we don't know if that was number 1 or number 8 of the drafts he wrote.
It was the final draft. And it had a suited engineer shooting energy blasts from his hands, some pretty jumbled acts and an ending that didn't connect with Alien at all. Beyond some cool concepts and some fresh ideas the script was amateur hour
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 27, 2015, 08:29:26 AM
It will be a retcon, I reckon. I'm saying it's unlikely we'll see anything other than some sort of retcon/alternate sequel to Aliens. Judging by Neill's comments, this isn't going to be a continuation of Alien Resurrection and without that the retcon direction (as much as I wish it wasn't) is the only real direction he has to go.
He could have continued after Aliens in the timeline, or Alien3 and put whatever tone or direction he wanted in the film. But he he ignores this cause he wants Ripley and Hicks in the movie at all costs. Is it an alien movie or ''THE ADVENTURES OF RIPLEY AND HICKS PART 2?''. Cause it seems he's more of a fan of the concept of Ripley kicking xeno ass than being a fan of the series and it's theme and has zero respect for the continuity and integrity of the franchise. Judging by the artwork the man just wants to see Aliens2
Quote from: zuzuki on Apr 04, 2015, 10:26:04 PM
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 29, 2015, 01:00:05 AM
The Derelict certainly looks quite ancient, but if it's thousands of years older than what we saw in Prometheus, why does it look exactly the same?
Scott said that they are ''brother'' ships separated in design by aprox 200 years. This can be interpreted that they are either 2 different classes of ships used in parallel by the engineers, or the Juggernaut is a more advanced, newer version of the Derelict.
QuoteYou'd think that Engineer flight technology would have gotten better in that time.
Don't attribute the human way of doing things to an alien species. Just because it's newer doesn't mean it must look differently. If they are weird enough to have a croissant shaped ship instead of a aerodynamic lookin one, they are perfectly capable of doing other weird things by our standards
Quote from: oduodu on Mar 27, 2015, 03:34:31 PM
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 25, 2015, 02:33:13 PM
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 25, 2015, 02:31:19 PMThey served the same purpose in Spaihts script, though.
I'm not denying that. But you're trying to us it as evidence for Spaihts script being inferior, when the end film did EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
Pot - kettle.
There are more reasons than that why Spaihts script was draft-like. Which is what it was. It was a draft. It could have been sanded down one way or another into a better film, it had great visuals.
Yes we don't know if that was number 1 or number 8 of the drafts he wrote.
It was the final draft. And it had a suited engineer shooting energy blasts from his hands, some pretty jumbled acts and an ending that didn't connect with Alien at all. Beyond some cool concepts and some fresh ideas the script was amateur hour
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 27, 2015, 08:29:26 AM
It will be a retcon, I reckon. I'm saying it's unlikely we'll see anything other than some sort of retcon/alternate sequel to Aliens. Judging by Neill's comments, this isn't going to be a continuation of Alien Resurrection and without that the retcon direction (as much as I wish it wasn't) is the only real direction he has to go.
He could have continued after Aliens in the timeline, or Alien3 and put whatever tone or direction he wanted in the film. But he he ignores this cause he wants Ripley and Hicks in the movie at all costs. Is it an alien movie or ''THE ADVENTURES OF RIPLEY AND HICKS PART 2?''. Cause it seems he's more of a fan of the concept of Ripley kicking xeno ass than being a fan of the series and it's theme and has zero respect for the continuity and integrity of the franchise. Judging by the artwork the man just wants to see Aliens2
That's not neccisarily fair, because in any other time you would agree Fox had no care for the continuinty when they shoved production of Alien 3 and rushed it, taking time because of creative differences, and even hating Eric Red's contribution (For good reason). But it was over and done. Then they decided taking that ending away, so any thematic relevance Alien 3 had, and made Alien Resurrection. Witha campy high paced, big budget, popcorn flick.
Both of those films did not involve Scott whatsoever, this one does.
There's more nuance to this, than you admit.
Whatever problems Alien3 and AR had, they respected the continuity. AR could have retconed Alien 3 too, since that one was so plagued with production problems and was disowned by Fincher. But they made it work. They used a shitty cloning plot, but they made it fit into the series. Alien 5 won't have that, not because something horrible happened with the way the xeno was portrayed or some other core subject, but because the fanboy wants his Ripley back, together with Hicks.
And as much as i loved Hicks, i don't find him that necessary to be honest. He was a secondary character, playing secomd fiddle to Ripley in the second partof the movie for a short while before he got himself hurt and decomisioned, making him useless for the 3rd act of the movie. So why does a character like that need to be brought back? Pure nostalgia and fanboy love. Reminds me of the love a useless character like Bobba Fett gets,and obsession over Darth Maul.
Just imagine, a movie set in the Aliens timeframe like NB wants to make, with millitary action and big set pieces. But instead of using grandma, he brings new characters into the fold, that we can follow even in potential sequels. The company, found another xeno source, or our new protagonists find out about the engineer homeworld and what happened on lv223 and decide to end the problem once and for all, just like they wanted to do in the past. Thus tying the movie with what happened in Prometheus too( these are just personal examples, doesn't mean they have to follow this path). And this could all happen without erasing A3 and AR from continuity. So many options, but none of them can be used and nothing fresh and new can be brought to the table because people are fixated on Ripley, a character that had a complete arc with a heroic death.
It's the same reason the new Terminator movie will be mediocre. They had to come up with some f**ked up plot, recycling emblematic moments in the franchise just so it can have Arnold back in, kicking ass in the 80's. Let's push things forward, not allow them to get stale
This ^ All of this you say is what is needed. All of it. 100%.
-Windebieste.
I bet that if Ridley Scott were at the helm of this, 50% of the current haters of the project would have no problem with the direction it is taking.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Apr 05, 2015, 03:18:07 PMI bet that if Ridley Scott were at the helm of this, 50% of the current haters of the project would have no problem with the direction it is taking.
Not in my case. Scott hasn't made a really great film in years and
Prometheus was a mess.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Apr 05, 2015, 03:18:07 PM
I bet that if Ridley Scott were at the helm of this, 50% of the current haters of the project would have no problem with the direction it is taking.
Lol, that is SO quoted for truth, Prometheus is proof.
Maybe before we saw Prometheus. Not now.
People still worship Ridley now even after Prometheus. When it comes to canon, it has never been about using fair, unbiased standards and it has always been about some shallow popularity contest, and apparently Riddles is still at the top.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 09:31:41 PM
People still worship Ridley now even after Prometheus. When it comes to canon, it has never been about using fair, unbiased standards and it has always been about some shallow popularity contest, and apparently Riddles is still at the top.
And why not? He made the best film.
That said, what little we know of A5 sounds kinda dodgy no matter who's at the helm.
No, James Cameron made the best film, and regardless it doesn't give either permission to destroy continuity should things come to that. I respect Neil Blomkamp because he is actually stating upfront that his movie takes place in a separate universe, I don't get why fans are pissed at this since apparently they have done the same with the AVP movies. Ridley should have done this with Prometheus, tbh.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 09:45:49 PM
No, James Cameron made the best film,
No, he made
your favourite film.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 09:45:49 PMand regardless it doesn't give either permission to destroy continuity should things come to that. I respect Neil Blomkamp because he is actually stating upfront
Seems you're getting up in arms to say that Scott and Cameron don't have the right to "destroy continuity" (when they never did), while commending Blomkamp for doing just that.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 09:45:49 PMthat his movie takes place in a separate universe
Gonna need a source for that info.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 09:45:49 PMI don't get why fans are pissed at this since apparently they have done the same with the AVP movies.
Who's pissed? I personally just think it's lazy storytelling. No way to know how it will come off 'til opening night.
As for AvP, nobody cares about those because they are effectively spinoff, beat-em-up movies for idiots.
James Cameron made the best movie because it grossed the most money, that's why Aliens is generally viewed as the best. If you need a source to confirm that Alien 5 will take place in a separate universe then clearly you haven't been active on this site in awhile. Separate universes aren't lazy storytelling if they make sure they don't contradict previous films, a number of people on this forum agree Prometheus would have been much better as its own standalone film. As for the AVP films, a LOT of people were/are still pissed at the directors for them.
If they're 'pissed', they're pissed because those movies are garbage on every level. And if box office gross = quality, McDonald's must be the best restaurant on earth.
Just please point me to a quote where Blomkamp says "my movie takes place in an alternate universe."
I can point you to a variety of interviews with Blomkamp and Weaver that say they want to alter continuity and they can ALL be found in the News section. Why don't you show me a quote that says he's not doing an alternate universe?
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 10:15:22 PM
James Cameron made the best movie because it grossed the most money, that's why Aliens is generally viewed as the best.
Aliens didn't gross the most money by any means. If you account for inflation it's been pretty much downhill since
Alien, and if you don't, then every film made more money than the last until AvP:R came along.
Yes, that's right:
Alien Resurrection made more money than
Aliens.
And AvP remains the second highest grossing of all of them. Behind
Prometheus.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 10:40:37 PM
I can point you to a variety of interviews with Blomkamp and Weaver that say they want to alter continuity and they can ALL be found in the News section. Why don't you show me a quote that says he's not doing an alternate universe?
No, you're not getting off that easy. This 'alternate universe' stuff is your own mind making sense of it. I want you to link me to a quote where Blomkamp says he's taking the 'alternate universe' route, as opposed to the 'I'm just gonna ignore the sequels' or the 'it was all a dream' route.
If you don't believe Alien 5 is an alternate universe then you're in the minority's both in stated facts and in community polls. I've done enough backtracking in other arguments with little to no results to want to do it again. If you really want a source then create a thread asking for one, a lot of people here will happily oblige.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 10:52:20 PM
If you don't believe Alien 5 is an alternate universe then you're in the minority's both in stated facts and in community polls.
I don't 'believe' anything. I would simply like to see you back up these 'facts' of yours. You said earlier that Blomkamp stated upfront that his film will be in an alternate universe...
When? Where?
To be fair, ignoring A3 and Res pretty much means it's going to be an alternate timeline unless they make it a dream, but I doubt it.
And he has been pretty explicit in saying it's Alien, then Aliens, then his film.
People are clinging way too much to his mention that he's not trying to undo 3 and Res, which in the context he said it in came across as "I'm not doing my movie just to retcon the third and fourth films, I just want to follow up on Aliens the way I'd like to see the story go."
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 05, 2015, 11:02:43 PM
People are clinging way too much to his mention that he's not trying to undo 3 and Res, which in the context he said it in came across as "I'm not doing my movie just to retcon the third and fourth films, I just want to follow up on Aliens the way I'd like to see the story go."
I'm personally not clinging to anything - I've had nothing invested in the series, really, since the end credits of Alien 3. But at some point, Blomkamp is going to have to stand up and say 'yes, this is an alternate timeline', or 'no, I've thought of a way to work around 3 & 4'...
That's the quote I'm waiting for! ;D
Quote from: SiL on Apr 05, 2015, 10:59:10 PM
To be fair, ignoring A3 and Res pretty much means it's going to be an alternate timeline unless they make it a dream, but I doubt it.
Exactly. Like how the Heisei Godzilla movies ignored everything from Godzilla Raids Again to Terror of Mecha-Godzilla, rendered all of that as an alternate timeline. If anything... all things Alien related might as well be looked at like that.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 05, 2015, 11:13:40 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 05, 2015, 10:59:10 PM
To be fair, ignoring A3 and Res pretty much means it's going to be an alternate timeline unless they make it a dream, but I doubt it.
Exactly. Like how the Heisei Godzilla movies ignored everything from Godzilla Raids Again to Terror of Mecha-Godzilla, rendered all of that as an alternate timeline. If anything... all things Alien related might as well be looked at like that.
I kinda knew you'd come along with that stuff again. 'Godzilla'. 'Robocop'. You'd put these things on the same level as Alien? Might as well throw Scooby-Doo in there, too. :P
"On the same level" is all a matter of opinion. Whatever your opinion of these other film series, the basis for such a partial retcon is hardly a new concept.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Apr 05, 2015, 11:19:54 PM
I kinda knew you'd come along with that stuff again. 'Godzilla'. 'Robocop'. You'd put these things on the same level as Alien? Might as well throw Scooby-Doo in there, too. :P
Didn't you get your medical license revoked for a morphine addiction?
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 05, 2015, 11:21:21 PM
"On the same level" is all a matter of opinion. Whatever your opinion of these other film series, the basis for such a partial retcon is hardly a new concept.
Hardly new, certainly, and I suppose easily taken in stride by the comic book community. I guess my failing is that a part of me still sees the Alien series as a series of serious films. But maybe I should have let that go post- Alien 3.
If anything, I'd argue that being "serious" films would allow for even more leeway in terms of "continuity." Why struggle to try to come up with come comic booky explanation for things when you can just ignore what doesn't work for your story? Let each director give their own personal take on the franchise to the best of their ability without having to be bogged down by what someone else did that they don't personally care for.
That's what Cameron did with Aliens. : )
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Apr 05, 2015, 11:09:44 PMI'm personally not clinging to anything - I've had nothing invested in the series, really, since the end credits of Alien 3. But at some point, Blomkamp is going to have to stand up and say 'yes, this is an alternate timeline', or 'no, I've thought of a way to work around 3 & 4'...
Yeah, this.
QuoteWhatever problems Alien3 and AR had, they respected the continuity.
LOL no.
Magic egg.
Which was fixed by an explanation from A:CM, which arguably added more fuel to the fire in terms of how the fan community is concerned. :P
Quote from: Kelgaard on Apr 06, 2015, 10:00:57 PM
QuoteWhatever problems Alien3 and AR had, they respected the continuity.
LOL no.
Magic egg.
I always imagined the queen just shoots 'em out like the ping-pong ball girl in Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. :D
Quote from: Kelgaard on Apr 06, 2015, 10:00:57 PM
QuoteWhatever problems Alien3 and AR had, they respected the continuity.
LOL no.
Magic egg.
Which is easily fixable. Just a shame they didn't put effort into conveying it.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 05, 2015, 11:02:43 PM
And he has been pretty explicit in saying it's Alien, then Aliens, then his film.
People are clinging way too much to his mention that he's not trying to undo 3 and Res, which in the context he said it in came across as "I'm not doing my movie just to retcon the third and fourth films, I just want to follow up on Aliens the way I'd like to see the story go."
Whilst I still dislike the idea of the alternate universe - it's still the only way the only way Blomkamp can go with what he's said of his intentions so far.
Clemens, you can find all the recent news here: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/category/alien-5-news/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/category/alien-5-news/)
He doesn't explicitly say it but it seems pretty damn inevitable with his comments so far.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 09:31:41 PM
People still worship Ridley now even after Prometheus. When it comes to canon, it has never been about using fair, unbiased standards and it has always been about some shallow popularity contest, and apparently Riddles is still at the top.
Not entirely true - http://www.metacritic.com/movie/prometheus (http://www.metacritic.com/movie/prometheus) 6.5 from users and critics.
Indeed, but many fans of the series still do worship Scott. :P
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 07, 2015, 08:25:45 AM
Clemens, you can find all the recent news here: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/category/alien-5-news/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/category/alien-5-news/)
Oh not to worry, I definitely know where the news is - though I don't post a lot, I visit the site every day. I just had to call
Predxeno out on his 'Blomkamp has stated upfront that his film will take place in an alternate universe'.
It's hardly a call out since that's most likely where things will go anyway.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 07, 2015, 10:13:33 PM
It's hardly a call out since that's most likely where things will go anyway.
'Most likely' ain't facts! ;D
Completely agree - he hasn't stated that outright. Nor do I expect him to do for a while.
But I do believe it's the only way the film is going to go to with what information we have available to us.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 06, 2015, 10:29:56 PM
Which was fixed by an explanation from A:CM, which arguably added more fuel to the fire in terms of how the fan community is concerned. :P
No one considers that a fix, nobody.
The context of the Alien 3 Blu-Ray Menu is the real official fix if there must be one.
What's interesting is that, while this is something new for a Western audience, other franchises outside of the US, more specifically the Godzilla Franchise, have done these things before, numerous times.
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Apr 08, 2015, 05:05:40 PM
What's interesting is that, while this is something new for a Western audience, other franchises outside of the US, more specifically the Godzilla Franchise, have done these things before, numerous times.
And it would be fantastic if the Alien films could enjoy the same stature, respect, and critical acclaim that the Godzilla movies do.
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Apr 08, 2015, 05:05:40 PM
What's interesting is that, while this is something new for a Western audience, other franchises outside of the US, more specifically the Godzilla Franchise, have done these things before, numerous times.
And someone OTHER than myself sees what's possibly happening here! :laugh:
Make that three of us. ;)
Also, the Ultraman series has done this many times.
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Apr 08, 2015, 11:57:08 PM
Make that three of us. ;)
I knew I wasn't crazy and alone in thinking this was what could be happening!
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Apr 08, 2015, 05:05:40 PM
What's interesting is that, while this is something new for a Western audience, other franchises outside of the US, more specifically the Godzilla Franchise, have done these things before, numerous times.
I wanted to address this.. there are some Western franchises which have done this. Namely, Halloween, Robocop and Highlander. Just to name a few. Might as well add Alien-Predator to that list.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Apr 08, 2015, 11:00:53 PM
And it would be fantastic if the Alien films could enjoy the same stature, respect, and critical acclaim that the Godzilla movies do.
Considering that Godzilla has a very strong following in the West and East, even having a convention in the franchise's honor, G-Fest, I would say that Godzilla does have quite the stature, respect and acclaim which Alien does. Also if you like that metaphorical bull in your movies, Godzilla has that too.. Namely the original 1954 and 1985 sequel.
Just sayin'.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Apr 08, 2015, 11:00:53 PM
And it would be fantastic if the Alien films could enjoy the same stature, respect, and critical acclaim that the Godzilla movies do.
They pretty much do. Starts off with world renowned cinema and devolved into cheesy horseshit. Then got kind of better but not really later on.
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Apr 08, 2015, 05:05:40 PM
What's interesting is that, while this is something new for a Western audience, other franchises outside of the US, more specifically the Godzilla Franchise, have done these things before, numerous times.
It isn't new here either, though. Superman did it. Numerous slasher franchisees did it.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 09, 2015, 01:48:44 AM
It isn't new here either, though. Superman did it. Numerous slasher franchisees did it.
Already named one of them!
Doesn't change the fact I don't want it to happen to Alien. It just feels... cheap.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 09, 2015, 07:33:55 AM
Doesn't change the fact I don't want it to happen to Alien. It just feels... cheap.
Indeed. Was never arguing it didn't happen. Just that didn't want it to happen because of above.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 09, 2015, 07:46:35 AM
Indeed. Was never arguing it didn't happen. Just that didn't want it to happen because of above.
I have to ask... how does having more than one continuity cheapen things? If anything, I think it's liberating. Why be a slave to it when creators and fans can pick and choose where to continue from as far as here on in is concerned?
Especially in a series that's followed a single storyline, it makes an major event fairly f**king pointless and largely takes the edge off of, well, everything.
"Oh no, my favourite character died! Hope they make another one later where they didn't."
It's also pretty hard to immerse an audience into any sort of universe when they're constantly aware of alternate timelines they could be watching instead. Alien sells its fantastical elements by trying to make its world feel real -- how the hell do you manage that when your opening scene basically amounts to "BUT WHAT IF THAT OTHER STUFF DIDN'T HAPPEN?"
That's not reality, that's shitty fanfiction.
^^ As above. I know that this is all just fiction but the series carried itself in a very serious fashion. Alien is often applauded because of its realism, the way the characters felt like genuine people, how a big deal wasn't made of all the fantastic technology, etc. It was grounded in realism. Every film had an impact, something that effected that made-up reality.
For all Resurrection's flaws, I thought Ripley's return was one of the more interesting things and cloning never felt out of place in that reality. We can clone now.
This isn't grounded in reality. Or in the reality of the series. It's not like Star Trek or Stargate where they have access to other timelines where things went differently.
Don't get me wrong, I will watch the film and I'll be happy to see Hicks back and if it's an awesome film, all the better. But I'll always be disappointed at taking this particular angle.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 10, 2015, 07:11:45 AMI know that this is all just fiction but the series carried itself in a very serious fashion. Alien is often applauded because of its realism, the way the characters felt like genuine people, how a big deal wasn't made of all the fantastic technology, etc. It was grounded in realism. Every film had an impact, something that effected that made-up reality.
Particularly this. People keep bringing up
Godzilla or superhero and horror film series that have done retcons, but tonally they come across as totally different to the
Alien series. They're just a different kettle of fish. No one talks about the serious continuity of
Halloween. No one cares about the over-arching story of
Godzilla, after the first couple it's just about big monsters smashing stuff up (which applies equally to the retcon series). Superhero stories are notorious for arbitrarily undoing things like death (a reason I generally dislike the genre - if characters just come back all the time, what threat does death pose?)
Alien is different to those franchises. The films, despite being sci-fi, are grounded in a very serious reality and form a continuous story, half of which they're apparently now saying, "Nah, didn't happen." I just don't personally think an alternate-history retcon fits into the
Alien franchise in an intelligent way. It really does come off as cheap fanfic stuff. I mean, they could
so easily just ignore the current films and go somewhere else in an unobtrusive way, and make a great film. So why go down the route of just writing off stuff when it cheapens everything?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 10, 2015, 07:11:45 AM
Don't get me wrong, I will watch the film and I'll be happy to see Hicks back and if it's an awesome film, all the better. But I'll always be disappointed at taking this particular angle.
To be fair, were you happy with A:CM's
revive Hicks angle? I figure this film will still be better received than that game no matter what. ;)
I wasn't. I hated the way it was hand-waved in the campaign and I thought the DLC was contrived. Poor story telling all around.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 10, 2015, 01:53:39 PMTo be fair, were you happy with A:CM's revive Hicks angle?
You say that as though that's the only alternative we have...
What with Fox's stand on the game's canon status, it kinda is. Though I suppose fans could once more go back into their shell and say every story they don't like isn't canon. :-\
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 10, 2015, 02:08:16 PMWhat with Fox's stand on the game's canon status, it kinda is. Though I suppose fans could once more go back into their shell and say every story they don't like isn't canon. :-\
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying your bringing up
ACM in response to Corporal disliking a retcon is completely pointless, because I'm willing to bet hard cash the game will have
zero influence on the movie Blomkamp is making.
The game would likewise have zero influence if they chose to simply do something new
without Hicks and just avoid the whole continuity clusterf*ck altogether.
ACM is a moot point.
That wasn't the point I was making at all, I'm just saying that in either universe fans seem to dislike where the Alien franchise is heading though it's safe to say that Alien 5 will fare much better than A:CM.
But that's not the point at all. The point is we dislike the whole cocnept of a retcon. Being better than ACM is irrelevant in that regard, it's still a retcon (supposedly).
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 10, 2015, 03:46:59 PM
The point is we dislike the whole cocnept of a retcon.
And that's fine. But if Blomkamp saying that he wasn't going to undo Alien 3 and Resurrection but is not following those movies, then what else can you call it? I don't see it as a retcon. So then, what is it?
Look, guys... I understand your frustrations. I do. I truly do.. But I'm just trying to see a silver lining in all of this.
Like I've said a bunch of times - until the studio outright tells us what's going on, I reserve the right to hold off calling it anything.
I also reserve the right to complain about it being a retcon until we know 100% for sure that's what it is.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 10, 2015, 05:02:21 PM
I also reserve the right to complain about it being a retcon until we know 100% for sure that's what it is.
No one is taking away your right to complain!
ACM may never be officially retconned but you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be completely ignored in the future.
It's discussions like these which make me relieved I'm in the 'wait-and-see' camp.
Honestly, it's a much less stressful way to live your life when it comes to films. :)
There's no fun in that though. :P
As long as Neil Bluffcamp is writing it, its most likely going to be crap.
Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Apr 21, 2015, 01:23:34 AM
As long as Neil Bluffcamp is writing it, its most likely going to be crap.
Not really. 2 good films and a bad one doesn't guarantee it'll be bad. I agree his writing isn't his strong suit but he recognizes that himself. Hopefully he'll be letting someone else write it based on his story.
I don't think three films is really enough to objectively judge Blomkamp's talent. District 9 was superb but Elysium was bland (visuals and Copley aside) and Chappie was massively uneven (and I say that despite liking both). All three have some fantastic elements but the latter two obviously have their share of negatives.
I do at least hope Blomkamp works with someone on the script, someone who can help balance his shortcomings as a writer.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Apr 10, 2015, 05:50:44 PM
ACM may never be officially retconned but you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be completely ignored in the future.
Amen to that. Although, I don't think A:CM is even worth the energy of thought required to retcon. Easier just to throw it in the "LOL yeah whatever" bin along side AvP Requiem.
Maybe Blomkamp's new 'ALIEN' movie will just be called 'Big Chappie'...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi613.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt211%2Fwindebieste%2FBigChappie.jpg&hash=5c4919181a80f799333e1c7ab23e3a2e67c8a71e)
-Windebieste.
Quote from: windebieste on May 01, 2015, 11:26:50 PM
Maybe Blomkamp's new 'ALIEN' movie will just be called 'Big Chappie'...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi613.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt211%2Fwindebieste%2FBigChappie.jpg&hash=5c4919181a80f799333e1c7ab23e3a2e67c8a71e)
-Windebieste.
ROFL :laugh:
http://www.realtytoday.com/articles/14165/20150501/aliens-5-release-date-cast-plot-neil-blomkamp-making-sure.htm (http://www.realtytoday.com/articles/14165/20150501/aliens-5-release-date-cast-plot-neil-blomkamp-making-sure.htm)
Allegedly Prometheus 2 is still coming before this. Which is a good idea if you ask me. Sort of tent-poling P2 before this...
Quote from: CainsSon on May 02, 2015, 05:43:35 AM
http://www.realtytoday.com/articles/14165/20150501/aliens-5-release-date-cast-plot-neil-blomkamp-making-sure.htm (http://www.realtytoday.com/articles/14165/20150501/aliens-5-release-date-cast-plot-neil-blomkamp-making-sure.htm)
Allegedly Prometheus 2 is still coming before this. Which is a good idea if you ask me. Sort of tent-poling P2 before this...
These sites always do the same, and usually are rumors of dubious credibility. They are not a reliable source.
Don't even know the difference between Alien and Aliens. Should stick to realty.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on May 03, 2015, 01:04:18 AM
Don't even know the difference between Alien and Aliens. Should stick to realty.
Is Aliens the one with Riley and the cat in it?
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on May 03, 2015, 03:08:49 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on May 03, 2015, 01:04:18 AM
Don't even know the difference between Alien and Aliens. Should stick to realty.
Is Aliens the one with Riley and the cat in it?
Yep. It was directed by Scott Ripley and stars Winona Reinhold.
Ah, okay thanks! It's hard to remember what is what with SM gone.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on May 03, 2015, 03:38:16 PM
Ah, okay thanks! It's hard to remember what is what with SM gone.
I said ALLEGEDLY guys... But it goes to show how what someone mentioned (I can't remember which of you said it) is true. That casual film fans don't follow the continuity and may not even notice or care about a retcon.
I am still thinking Fox may release Prometheus 2 first, while keeping fans in the pool eagerly awaiting Alien-kamp. It would be a smart marketing strategy cause it would use the hype for Alien-kamp to generate revenue for Prometheus 2.