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New Alien videogame revealed at SummerGameFest!

https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1534960138246758400

Ho-le-shit

Looks like it's just one of those top-down four player horde type games. Not really for me, unfortunately.

While it's easy to dismiss those kinds of games, I have before. There are some really good ones these days such as 'The Ascent.' I'll be keeping an eye on this.

I'm incredibly dissapointed.
WHY are we getting ANOTHER MP coop game??????? And a top down shooter too! When are we finally gonna get playable aliens :(

Yeah, would be nice to see another single player first person shooter game in this franchise in my lifetime

Still, exciting to see a new game coming. Interesting trailer, seems to have an intriguing story involving a marine who left his squad behind. Could be neat

I don't think I can take much more announcements this week.

Is this being developed by the same guys who did Fireteam? It looks to be published by Focus Entertainment.

Which co-op Aliens horde shooter do I want to play today then? :laugh:

It's probably too early to tell (or it's just a wishful thinking on my part) but trailer makes it seem they're leaning more towards "scary" than "actiony" this time around. Would be great to get some of the Isolation mojo back, when every encounter feels like the last one

I saw the "Focus" logo and the APC on an alien planet in a clearly Alien setting and thought they were doing a CG trailer for the new Fireteam update they'd confirmed is being shown later! :laugh:

I kept thinking "wow, this is looking like it's going to be a really big update! ....wait, isometric top-down?!"

Definitely didn't expect another new Alien game announcement any time soon, so this is a cool surprise! I used to play a lot of isometric PC games back in the day, more strategy than action to be fair, but still, this is something I'll definitely be keeping an eye on.

We are eating good lately! So much Alien and Predator content. Are we in a new golden age?

Another cheap looking mindless shooter....sigh.   

This could've been Fireteam Elite DLC. 

Official site here which gives some details and screenshots about the game:

https://www.focus-entmt.com/en/games/aliens-dark-descent?fbclid=IwAR3Lmi4JSW44WnDw3ucdOjcpY7okUtANoyc3yuPy2jdXFY5IzqKFyDD_mKQ

QuoteIn Aliens: Dark Descent, command a squad of hardened Colonial Marines to stop a terrifying Xenomorph outbreak on Moon Lethe. Lead your soldiers in real-time combat against iconic Xenomorphs, rogue operatives from the insatiable Weyland-Yutani Corporation, and a host of horrifying creatures new to the Alien franchise.

You are the commander. They are your weapon.

Infiltrate large open levels and annihilate enemies with your squad, dispatching orders strategically and intuitively at the touch of a button. Tread carefully, as death is permanent and your foes will adapt their tactics to your actions while hunting you down. Forge unique paths for survival, uncovering shortcuts, creating safe zones, and setting up motion trackers in a persistent world where your actions impact levels forever.

Customize your squad with a selection of different classes. Level up and specialize your soldiers with unique abilities and an arsenal of weapons, armor, and perks, for high stakes missions in treacherous territory. Develop your base to research new tech and improve your squad even further.

Manage your resources wisely and take calculated risks to outsmart the deadliest creature mankind has ever faced. Can you and your squad stop the outbreak before it's too late?

Face off in a gripping original Alien story against iconic Xenomorph creatures ranging from Facehuggers to Praetorians, Alien Queens and many more, including rogue human commandos and a brand-new threat unique to this Alien storyline

Lead strategically and change squad tactics from mission to mission, carefully managing your soldiers' health, resources, and sanity, to avoid permanent team losses and mental breakdowns

Forge unique paths for survival in a persistent world, uncovering shortcuts, creating safe zones and setting up motion trackers to stay one step ahead of these creatures

Assemble and level up squads composed of 5 starting Marines classes, with dozens of specializations, unique abilities and weapons.

Quote from: Mikey on Jun 09, 2022, 06:39:25 PMWe are eating good lately! So much Alien and Predator content. Are we in a new golden age?

And Godzilla and Kong! :laugh:

A new beginning has potentially begun!

Quote from: Kailem on Jun 09, 2022, 06:51:20 PM

Quote from: Mikey on Jun 09, 2022, 06:39:25 PMWe are eating good lately! So much Alien and Predator content. Are we in a new golden age?

And Godzilla and Kong! :laugh:

A new beginning has potentially begun!

Can our bodies handle all of this new stuff?

Quote from: Darkness on Jun 09, 2022, 06:47:59 PMOfficial site here which gives some details and screenshots about the game:

https://www.focus-entmt.com/en/games/aliens-dark-descent?fbclid=IwAR3Lmi4JSW44WnDw3ucdOjcpY7okUtANoyc3yuPy2jdXFY5IzqKFyDD_mKQ

QuoteIn Aliens: Dark Descent, command a squad of hardened Colonial Marines to stop a terrifying Xenomorph outbreak on Moon Lethe. Lead your soldiers in real-time combat against iconic Xenomorphs, rogue operatives from the insatiable Weyland-Yutani Corporation, and a host of horrifying creatures new to the Alien franchise.

You are the commander. They are your weapon.

Infiltrate large open levels and annihilate enemies with your squad, dispatching orders strategically and intuitively at the touch of a button. Tread carefully, as death is permanent and your foes will adapt their tactics to your actions while hunting you down. Forge unique paths for survival, uncovering shortcuts, creating safe zones, and setting up motion trackers in a persistent world where your actions impact levels forever.

Customize your squad with a selection of different classes. Level up and specialize your soldiers with unique abilities and an arsenal of weapons, armor, and perks, for high stakes missions in treacherous territory. Develop your base to research new tech and improve your squad even further.

Manage your resources wisely and take calculated risks to outsmart the deadliest creature mankind has ever faced. Can you and your squad stop the outbreak before it's too late?

Face off in a gripping original Alien story against iconic Xenomorph creatures ranging from Facehuggers to Praetorians, Alien Queens and many more, including rogue human commandos and a brand-new threat unique to this Alien storyline

Lead strategically and change squad tactics from mission to mission, carefully managing your soldiers' health, resources, and sanity, to avoid permanent team losses and mental breakdowns

Forge unique paths for survival in a persistent world, uncovering shortcuts, creating safe zones and setting up motion trackers to stay one step ahead of these creatures

Assemble and level up squads composed of 5 starting Marines classes, with dozens of specializations, unique abilities and weapons.

"Iconic xenomorphs" lol

Description sounds interesting with whole "everyvaction impacts you going forward" thing. Curious to see how they gonna implement that

What about new f**king Predator games? Come on...

So it's an RTS? My hope has been restored

Alien X-COM, f**king awesome.

Quote from: Mikey on Jun 09, 2022, 06:57:46 PM

Quote from: Kailem on Jun 09, 2022, 06:51:20 PM

Quote from: Mikey on Jun 09, 2022, 06:39:25 PMWe are eating good lately! So much Alien and Predator content. Are we in a new golden age?

And Godzilla and Kong! :laugh:

A new beginning has potentially begun!

Can our bodies handle all of this new stuff?

I hope so, I aint getting any younger!

So it sounds like it's a singleplayer-only game, which is a little surprising. Also odd that they only seem to imply that in the FAQ section there, but not outright state it either way.

Look awesome.  A little disappointed that traditional pulse rifle firing sound effects aren't being used for the M41 and the smartgun.  I understand other weapons sounding different but the weapons from the movie absolutely have to be kept traditional.

top down game no thank you
just do alien isolation 2

wish this was more like AvP:Extinction. Appreciate the idea to try something new but the whole 'Aliens' styled approach is getting..tired.

This was unexpected

it looks interesting, i really hope its single player  sick of multiplayer games being default on so many games. and i really hope we can play as aliens. i miss playing as an alien

Disapointed it wont be released on switch. :/

Well this is unexpected but I'm hyped nonetheless! Do I spy something reminiscent of the Bug Men from the old "Colonial Marine"  comic?! Color me intrigued!!!

Game doesn't look terribly exciting, but I'm there.

Cool trailer though.

Trailer looked awesome until I saw the gameplay. Looks like a twin stick shooter or RTS and feels kinda cheap to me.
Based on it being a single player squad strategy game, I imagine it'll be like Gears Tactics, maybe with some Alien Swarm mixed in.
I'm sure they're someone's cup of tea, but I never finished either game.

Well this came out of nowhere! That trailer was brilliant. I wonder if that was something Tindalos created in-house or if another company handled that? I'm still dying to see my feature-length CG Alien/vs/Predator film and these kind of trailers always give me a little hope.

I absolutely loved when the door closed. That gave me a grin and a shock.  :laugh: Also saw the SMG in there from Colonial Marines! That put a smile on my face.

My first reaction was "must be one of those cheap Isometric shooters," which don't get me wrong, I'd have been okay with. I actually really enjoyed Halo's. But I'm really intrigued by this. "Single player, squad-based action experience." I think this could be really fun!

Definitely has the atmospheric look so far. And it's a nice new genre switch. It is a shame we're not seeing it on Switch though. Seems like something that'd work really well on the handheld mode.

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Quote from: Xiggz456 on Jun 09, 2022, 10:45:34 PMWell this is unexpected but I'm hyped nonetheless! Do I spy something reminiscent of the Bug Men from the old "Colonial Marine"  comic?! Color me intrigued!!!

Yeah, I'm not seeing much commentary on this! I wonder who/what they were supposed to be?!

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This is also set towards the end of the 2100s. That puts it a good 20 or so years after the events of Alien 3.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 10, 2022, 08:52:30 AMAlso saw the SMG in there from Colonial Marines! That put a smile on my face.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 10, 2022, 08:52:30 AMAlso saw the SMG in there from Colonial Marines!

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 10, 2022, 08:52:30 AMThat put a smile on my face.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 10, 2022, 08:52:30 AMColonial Marines!

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 10, 2022, 08:52:30 AMsmile on my face.

(https://c.tenor.com/g42_4wF-BXIAAAAd/spock-shock.gif)

I've said it many times. The game maybe disappointing, but I've always enjoyed the additions to the armoury.

---

QuoteIn Aliens: Dark Descent, command a squad of hardened Colonial Marines to stop a terrifying Xenomorph outbreak on Moon Lethe. Lead your soldiers in real-time combat against iconic Xenomorphs, rogue operatives from the insatiable Weyland-Yutani Corporation, and a host of horrifying creatures new to the Alien franchise.

We maybe seeing more than just the Bug Men. I just hope they don't go full Kenner. A little Kenner is fine, but you never go full Kenner.

---

Quote from: Darkness on Jun 09, 2022, 06:47:59 PMOfficial site here which gives some details and screenshots about the game:

https://www.focus-entmt.com/en/games/aliens-dark-descent?fbclid=IwAR3Lmi4JSW44WnDw3ucdOjcpY7okUtANoyc3yuPy2jdXFY5IzqKFyDD_mKQ

QuoteIn Aliens: Dark Descent, command a squad of hardened Colonial Marines to stop a terrifying Xenomorph outbreak on Moon Lethe. Lead your soldiers in real-time combat against iconic Xenomorphs, rogue operatives from the insatiable Weyland-Yutani Corporation, and a host of horrifying creatures new to the Alien franchise.

You are the commander. They are your weapon.

Infiltrate large open levels and annihilate enemies with your squad, dispatching orders strategically and intuitively at the touch of a button. Tread carefully, as death is permanent and your foes will adapt their tactics to your actions while hunting you down. Forge unique paths for survival, uncovering shortcuts, creating safe zones, and setting up motion trackers in a persistent world where your actions impact levels forever.

Customize your squad with a selection of different classes. Level up and specialize your soldiers with unique abilities and an arsenal of weapons, armor, and perks, for high stakes missions in treacherous territory. Develop your base to research new tech and improve your squad even further.

Manage your resources wisely and take calculated risks to outsmart the deadliest creature mankind has ever faced. Can you and your squad stop the outbreak before it's too late?

Face off in a gripping original Alien story against iconic Xenomorph creatures ranging from Facehuggers to Praetorians, Alien Queens and many more, including rogue human commandos and a brand-new threat unique to this Alien storyline

Lead strategically and change squad tactics from mission to mission, carefully managing your soldiers' health, resources, and sanity, to avoid permanent team losses and mental breakdowns

Forge unique paths for survival in a persistent world, uncovering shortcuts, creating safe zones and setting up motion trackers to stay one step ahead of these creatures

Assemble and level up squads composed of 5 starting Marines classes, with dozens of specializations, unique abilities and weapons.

This actually sounds really in-depth!!

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Unit sanity is something to worry about in this too! This sounds really fascinating! Is that a mechanic in any other game like this? Can anyone think of something analogous to this? X-com?

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 10, 2022, 08:56:20 AMI've said it many times. The game maybe disappointing, but I've always enjoyed the additions to the armoury.

What is that ? A nuanced opinion ?

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/12P6AnN6DcQj1S/giphy.gif)

God forbid we allow them. :P

Is there any confirmation on the type of gameplay?
Some sites state it's RTS, or like XCOM, others say it's action...

I hope it's action, but you can give orders to your squad and switch between the soldiers.

Quote from: Mike on Jun 10, 2022, 09:41:38 AMIs there any confirmation on the type of gameplay?
Some sites state it's RTS, or like XCOM, others say it's action...

I hope it's action, but you can give orders to your squad and switch between the soldiers.

The official information describes the game as an "enthralling single player squad-based action game" where gamers "lead a squad of marines in real-time combat."

---

So I've been reading through the official FAQ and there's a lot more in here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AliensDarkDescent/comments/v8nd3e/aliens_dark_descent_faq/

QuoteQ: How is the game played?

A: In Aliens: Dark Descent, you control a squad of 4 Colonial Marines, issuing orders in real time. You will infiltrate large open levels filled with wonders from the Alien franchise, while annihilating enemies with your squad. Strategically plan out your raids to complete as many objectives as possible in each run before extracting your team to return back to your base. Slow down time with the press of a button to make strategic decisions during combat. Extract your Marines safely at the end of long missions and watch them gain experience and level up, unlocking precious advanced skills and specialties. Make sure to monitor your Marines' health and stress levels on the field however, because death is permanent in the game and losing your units forever, a real possibility.

The Otago ship, which has suffered serious damage after crashing on Moon Lethe, acts like your base of operations. Over the course of the game, you will rescue specialists and salvage repair materials, unlocking many perks and improvements that will directly impact the performance of your marines. Expand the armory to unlock weapons, the medbay for faster recovery times between missions, the workshop to unlock specializations and perks and more.

Q: Can you play with a pad?

A: The game has been developed from the ground up with pad accessibility in mind. Controlling your marines is highly intuitive on both keyboard and pad.

Q: What happens between missions?

A: The Otago ship, which has suffered serious damage after crashing on planet Lethe, acts like your base of operations. Over the course of the game, you will rescue specialists and salvage repair materials, unlocking many perks and improvements that will directly impact the performance of your marines. Expand the armory to unlock weapons, the medbay for faster recovery times between missions, the workshop to unlock specializations and perks and more.

Q: What does 'persistent world' mean?

A: With its objective-based mission structure and the many ways a run can spiral out of control, the player will likely not be able to clear all of a level's objectives in one go. The persistent nature of Aliens: Dark Descent's world means that any door welded, sentry gun positioned, motion tracker set or shortcut unlocked persists in-between runs, providing massive benefits to players who take the time to plan ahead for future missions.

Q: How long is the campaign?

A: The campaign is about 30h. It may be more if you wish to complete all secondary objectives.

Q: How is the development going? Will there be a Beta?

A: The teams are fully focused on game development and it's still too early to talk about a Beta. Make sure to create a Focus account to be the first to be notified if a Beta is planned!

Just some select ones from it.

There was this game called Fear Effect, 3rd person, in which stressful situations affected your character. Also, I think some Dinasty Warriors games have it so that your victories, defeats, fulfilling objectives or not, affect the morale of your army, but I'm not sure of it.

QuoteQ: Who are the protagonists of Aliens: Dark Descent?

A: During your playthrough, you will follow the journey of the resourceful Maeko Hayes - fresh Deputy Administrator of the Weyland-Yutani Pioneer station, and Sergeant Jonas Harper - hardened Colonial Marine of the U.S.S. Otago's USCM response team.

Mildly interested in this. But I'll echos others in saying that this would be great on the Switch. I'd rather play this type of game handheld.

Xcom....sigh. Yet another developer that doesn't get it. It's been 8 years since the last good installment.

Quote from: Predatorium on Jun 10, 2022, 10:19:57 AMIt's been 8 years since the last good installment.

Damn

Sounds stressful, I'm in!

This sounds like StarCraft campaign missions. An RTS were you complete missions controlling an army with a hero character. In between missions you're given a skill tree(tech upgrade/creature evolution) to better suit your playing style and prepare for challenges of the next mission. This could be interesting. I'd love to see it take the established lore and go crazy with it. It would awesome if you had a marine campaign and an Alien campaign.

It's more like X-COM meets RUINER meets This War Of Mine I think.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jun 10, 2022, 11:51:02 AMThis War Of Mine

*traumatic flashbacks*

Yeah exactly.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 10, 2022, 08:56:20 AM

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QuoteIn Aliens: Dark Descent, command a squad of hardened Colonial Marines to stop a terrifying Xenomorph outbreak on Moon Lethe. Lead your soldiers in real-time combat against iconic Xenomorphs, rogue operatives from the insatiable Weyland-Yutani Corporation, and a host of horrifying creatures new to the Alien franchise.

We maybe seeing more than just the Bug Men. I just hope they don't go full Kenner. A little Kenner is fine, but you never go full Kenner.

(https://c.tenor.com/bzBs0_W-h0cAAAAC/doom-slayer-hungry.gif)

Full Kenner full Kenner full Kenner full Kenner!!

The game of 'The Thing' was the most famous one to implement a sanity/paranoia mechanic. I imagine this was just inspired by the RPG mechanic, most likely.

Some nice moody visuals, but aside from slowing down time (which I'm assuming has limited uses), I'm calling this what it is: The description sounds like a rip of 'Space Hulk', right down to these "rogue commandos" basically being reskins of Chaos/Nurgle Space Marine encounters. Games Workshop's notoriously litigious legal department might be watching closely.

Except that game's most recent incarnation at least had a play-as-Tyranids mode. Without one for the Aliens, this could well suffer from being a bit too same-y.

The actual visuals and lighting strongly reminded me of the recent remake of the 'Alien Breed' games. Wonder if it could be the same engine.

Otago, huh?

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jun 11, 2022, 02:16:34 AMThe game of 'The Thing' was the most famous one to implement a sanity/paranoia mechanic. I imagine this was just inspired by the RPG mechanic, most likely.

God I had a blast with that one in 2003.

QuoteSome nice moody visuals, but aside from slowing down time (which I'm assuming has limited uses), I'm calling this what it is: The description sounds like a rip of 'Space Hulk', right down to these "rogue commandos" basically being reskins of Chaos/Nurgle Space Marine encounters. Games Workshop's notoriously litigious legal department might be watching closely.

I don't think they have much intention of going after anything pertaining to The Mouse or its holdings, given that they never said a word about various Marvel comics using GW weapon designs or even poorly ripped game assets from Dawn of War, and indeed went on to give Marvel the license for the current 40k comics.

QuoteExcept that game's most recent incarnation at least had a play-as-Tyranids mode. Without one for the Aliens, this could well suffer from being a bit too same-y.

The actual visuals and lighting strongly reminded me of the recent remake of the 'Alien Breed' games. Wonder if it could be the same engine.

Reminds me of the game tiles from Prodos' AvP, honestly.

It's always good news when they release Alien games, but I was expecting an Alien Isolation 2. I see this more as an Aliens Fireteam 1.5...

As much as a game like this could be a breath of fresh air, I just want a game where we play as the Aliens again, we haven't had one since 2013, it's been almost 10 years.

Can we get another fps AvP already?

If only

We drew a lot of inspiration from Dark Horse comics and novels like Sea of Sorrow - little things but I hope players will catch them. And the Alien RPG is on my desk at all times! 😇 We were already deep in production when Fireteam came out, but there should be subtle nods to it.

— Thibaut Claudel (@Republ33k) June 12, 2022

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I think it was first described to me as "XCOM in real time" when I joined, and although the description has its limits, I think it's pretty accurate! It also reminds me of the old Commandos games on PC, if you knew these ones. But that's only my opinion.

— Thibaut Claudel (@Republ33k) June 12, 2022

Good stuff.

Focus took care of it, using some of our assets! I think they nailed it!

— Thibaut Claudel (@Republ33k) June 15, 2022

Yeah, we need a good Colonial Marines CGI show. So much potential there.

I guess Dark Descent is the closest we've come to something similar to AvP Extinction, at least the Colonial Marines part of it and managing them.

I am bit a disappointed though. They seem to be just focussing on these small budget games. I know you guys like Hunting Grounds and Fireteam but I want a good singleplayer campaign like Isolation.

Bruh Dark Descent's singleplayer.

30+ hours too.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 15, 2022, 11:02:48 AM30+ hours too.

That's Mass Effect length, if it's got not much fat, very impressive.

I for one am so happy this game is coming! Yeah, too bad there is no Isolation 2, but it's pretty clear that's not gonna happen soon unfortunately... It's a shame we don't have another AVP game, and that we can't play as the alien, but it's not like I'm expecting that to happen any time soon so I'm looking on the bright side. AFE feels very arcade like, almost silly even though it can be very fun with friends. But this seems like it's going for some dark action/horror vibes. That trailer sets the tone right. And I did love Alien Swarm, so I have no problem with the game type.

Loved the voice acting in the trailer! The aliens don't look perfect, but aren't bad at all. At least they're the correct scale. Brave of them to make this a single player game but it means we're getting an actual story this time! I want to see more of this. They need to keep the horror and hopelessness of the vibe going.

I'm very doubtful that 30 hours wont be padded out, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. The human mutant enemies with the chest Stark reactor don't really feel like they fit in well with the EU, but if they get some nice story exploration, why not?

Always happy for more Alien/AvP games, especially on Steam (and with achievements!). I'm not against the RTS aesthetic, at least it's something new.

Quote from: Still Collating... on Jun 18, 2022, 06:25:01 PMYeah, too bad there is no Isolation 2, but it's pretty clear that's not gonna happen soon unfortunately...

Honestly, it shouldn't be expected at all...

Quote from: Still Collating... on Jun 18, 2022, 06:25:01 PMThe human mutant enemies with the chest Stark reactor don't really feel like they fit in well with the EU, but if they get some nice story exploration, why not?

I'm very curious about these guys. Aesthetically speaking, they don't excite me too much, but functionally speaking I'm very content with Colonial Marines' Bugmen, or Pathogen mutants, so I'm curious to see what they're doing here and whether they work or not.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 21, 2022, 08:06:27 AM

Quote from: Still Collating... on Jun 18, 2022, 06:25:01 PMThe human mutant enemies with the chest Stark reactor don't really feel like they fit in well with the EU, but if they get some nice story exploration, why not?

I'm very curious about these guys. Aesthetically speaking, they don't excite me too much, but functionally speaking I'm very content with Colonial Marines' Bugmen, or Pathogen mutants, so I'm curious to see what they're doing here and whether they work or not.

It keeps the chestbursters dormant.

Interesting shout. Certainly an angle I'm interested in.

I'm in! Love seeing perma-death and lasting consequences for actions taken. The stakes should be high.

My excitement died down when I realized what kind of game it'll be but I might try it out if it isn't competing with other games at the time.

Not that I hate the kind of game it'll be, just that the first 95% of the trailer got me hyped enough that I was expecting more.

What do you mean by "more" ?

What would have made your excitement go up?

My mind started thinking "first person shooter that balances action and horror and made with similar or greater love and detail as Alien Isolation".

How do you know it is not all of those things but a first person shooter?

Who knows at this point in time, but what I do know is first person and command from top down aren't the same experience.

That's true, but RUINER 's far more visceral and full of identity than the majority of FPS, ditto on Disco Elysium.

https://twitter.com/DisneyD23/status/1559223443530211329

I guess this is where we'll be getting the info we missed from SDCC!

So bizarre seeing Alien as part of that montage...

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 15, 2022, 09:12:18 PMI guess this is where we'll be getting the info we missed from SDCC!

Wasn't that for the Survios game, rather than Dark Descent? Hopefully we'll be seeing both.

Oh yeah, I think you're right (I was thinking the same as Hicks).

Regardless they show footage of the Dark Decent trailer in that promo, and I remember seeing the key art for the Survios game in a tweet that was talking about this event, so I feel like there's a good chance we'll see and/or hear about both.

Quote from: RidgeTop on Aug 16, 2022, 06:17:44 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 15, 2022, 09:12:18 PMI guess this is where we'll be getting the info we missed from SDCC!

Wasn't that for the Survios game, rather than Dark Descent? Hopefully we'll be seeing both.

You're quite right. That was for the VR game. My bad. Either way, I'm happy seeing more of either game! :D

I'm really hopeful for more info on Dark Decent, really excited for that!

Via Xenomorphing.

Can't wait to take a look at this when I get home.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 17, 2022, 09:19:04 AM

Quote from: RidgeTop on Aug 16, 2022, 06:17:44 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 15, 2022, 09:12:18 PMI guess this is where we'll be getting the info we missed from SDCC!

Wasn't that for the Survios game, rather than Dark Descent? Hopefully we'll be seeing both.

You're quite right. That was for the VR game. My bad. Either way, I'm happy seeing more of either game! :D

those were clips form dark descent though, and theres no trailer for the vr game as far as im aware

Stress huh? Like Alien The RPG, and snow, and jungle! @Corporal Hicks Jungle Hive? At last?

https://www.vg247.com/aliens-dark-descent-is-more-than-an-xcom-clone

QuoteMost different is movement, which is both real-time and free-form, meaning you don't have time to think about decision-making in the same way and movement takes place in full 3D as opposed to on a grid. This ramps up the pressure as your marines push through cramped corridors, making use of motion trackers (this is the Alien universe, after all) to keep track of where aliens are stalking. You can get jumped at any time, and there's no turns or pausing to save you.

f**k yes. 

QuoteMotion trackers are used to great effect to this end. There's two kinds of motion tracker - the iconic alien classic, which sits in the corner of your screen at all times as a UI element that tracks the area immediately around your marines, and a deployable item that can be tossed out anywhere on the map. Between the two of them, you can have a constant read of what is around you, both near and further away - which is handy, but only lasts so long. The Xenomorphs will find and destroy your deployable motion trackers - and once they do, you'll be paranoid that one is lurking around every corner.

Oh spooky! I love this idea! And it is a neat incorporation of both approaches to the motion tracker we have seen in prior Alien media. 

QuoteWith lots of motion trackers placed, you can see dots representing the deadly aliens darting about, up and down corridors, patrolling rooms, and actively searching for your squad. There's full-blown alert states - so when the enemy knows where you are, reinforcements will try to chase you down until you can lose them. Your party of marines will have to do things like weld shut airlock doors in order to block off aliens - but that'll also change your own path through the base.

Sounds stressful, in a good way. 

QuoteThere's a lot of tactics to manage, too. You've got a squad of four that can be any of six different classes, each with abilities, weapons, and skills to consider. The two key stats to manage are health and stress - the former familiar and the latter a representation of the sanity of your marines. The more stressed they are, the worse their performance will be - topping out in outright panic, where a Marine is rendered practically useless.
Combat is real time, but you can slow things to a crawl, allowing orders to be issued. This also has the bonus of looking extremely cool. If you set up an ambush in a doorway, watching a hail of bullets slow-mo slam into a Xenomorph is extremely satisfying.

Are the six classes, Gunner, Demolisher, Technician, Doc, Recon and Phalanx?  ;D

Liking what I am hearing. The stressed AI marines reminds me of a similar proposed mechanic in the PS2 Colonial Marines game.

The base building got me intrigued. I would like to have the stress of managing a small team with limited resources stranded on a Xenomorph planet. Trying to survive, like the 17 days in Aliens, before a rescue ship arrives to pick them up. Looking forward to the slo-mo speed setting, as my reaction time (I'm in my 40s) has become mediocre at best these days.

I am in my twenties and will be doing the same to be honest.

I really like the sound of it being a persistent world and that you can revisit certain areas and stuff like doors that you welded shut the last time will still be that way. And jungle locations? Very nice!

I also really like the XCOM comparisons about returning to your base/crashed ship between missions and building it up. As fun as the actual missions in XCOM were, I also really enjoyed the base building aspects too, so that could be a lot of fun.

Hope we get to do what you could do in that game and build ourselves an Alien containment facility and bring some xenos back to study too!

Can't wait to miss my shot on a 99% chance go hit

Any estimate on the release date?

I'm digging the sound of this game so far. Probably the closest thing we'll ever get to another AvP: Extinction.

Quote from: Wweyland on Aug 30, 2022, 11:16:29 AMAny estimate on the release date?

No idea at this point, I'm afraid.

Quote from: Komenja on Aug 30, 2022, 09:12:32 PMI'm digging the sound of this game so far. Probably the closest thing we'll ever get to another AvP: Extinction.

I'm finding myself more and more excited for this one. Everything I'm hearing about it has me intrigued.

I would so like to see some more gameplay soon, I hope this turns out great.

Quote from: Still Collating... on Sep 01, 2022, 03:38:40 PMI would so like to see some more gameplay soon, I hope this turns out great.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/be9a7606e8c142bfd3a0eebc4c8d8c2a/tumblr_nwsoseF1zk1r8l821o1_500.gif)

Same, very curious about what part SOMA will play.

https://www.gamingbible.co.uk/features/aliens-dark-descent-preview-20220831?source=facebook

QuoteThere are areas of respite to be found on each map, and you'll need them in order to pause, take on health-restoring sustenance and let your stress levels cool down

Sounds kinda comfy, honestly. If they're literally stopping to squat and eat, it'd be cool if they popped off at jokes and each other and forced some canned laughter to try and keep up their morale.

QuoteUpon finding a room with limited access points you can seal any port that an alien might pop its head through and take five

Rad. That was something I was hoping Colonial Marines would have more of, but it ended up being largely limited to specific story segments and one of the multiplayer modes. I wished it had worked more like Killing Floor, where you can weld almost any door shut to make choke points and dynamically effect map flow- at least until the zeds overwhelm your door and bust it down.

Spoiler

Speaking of, this might be a controversial take, but I genuinely think the Aliens mod for Killing Floor is way better at being an Aliens game than most of the actual Aliens games, at least as far as survival/Horde modes go.

[close]

QuoteIt's not only the hostile aliens you're up against in Dark Descent either - something very, very wrong has gone on here, and there are some pretty messed-up-looking humanoids around the place, which make the Working Joes of Alien: Isolation look like your best mates picking you up for a pint or three down the local.

I'm very interested in seeing what the new enemies are. Xeno cultists? Bug-Men like the A:CM comic? Black Goo mutants?

Spoiler

Kennermorphs? :D

[close]

QuoteThere's also time itself, as after a set number of days the installation will be nuked from orbit - it is, after all, the only way to be sure - whatever the successes of your on-the-ground team.

Oh snap. Well, I guess it is the only way to be sure. I imagine that's a way to prevent the player from cheesing the game's stress mechanics and resting marines too often.

They look more like Mass Effect husks than anything else.

Unless they're bringing the alien from Virus into continuity. :P

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5637f9fbe4b0baa6d85a1011/1506301140303-PQIL7KZW627GFXCT3ROJ/Hero.png?format=1500w)

NGL. Actually happy this is being made. AvP got an RTS, I don't think Aliens got one yet.

 I just hope we can name and edit the looks of our squads.

 Also it being SP only; I hope they will have mod support cause yeah, just kinda goes well with games like this with new units, weapons, mechanics, enemies, ect.

If they're taking as much inspiration from XCOM as it seems like they are, you probably will be able to customise your squad that way. That was definitely a cool feature in that game that helped make you feel even more connected to your team.

Kinda sounds like Gears Aliens: Tactics

https://twitter.com/Nibellion/status/1568331247104974851?s=20&t=NK-_fMCOt85TiBIhUgltyw

Here's a YouTube link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPm7MLt2BgQ) to the Games Showcase.
Gameplay starts at around 9:40

Along with some screenshots that I got:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8CmrGs9M/Capture4.png)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PfRTCTkD/Capture2.png)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PrvhZ9tR/Capture3.png)

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Sep 01, 2022, 05:00:36 PM

Quote from: Still Collating... on Sep 01, 2022, 03:38:40 PMI would so like to see some more gameplay soon, I hope this turns out great.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/be9a7606e8c142bfd3a0eebc4c8d8c2a/tumblr_nwsoseF1zk1r8l821o1_500.gif
Same, very curious about what part SOMA will play.

Have they said SOMA is an inspiration or something? I adore that game so I love when people bring it up lol

It's a superb videogame, the main protagonist aside.

Not sure if we knew or not, but sounds like Dark Descent has been in development since 2019.

https://twitter.com/RichardMasaArt/status/1534967097167597572

I love the job role "Giger's art style advisor"

https://twitter.com/RichardMasaArt/status/1535293555538808832

(https://media.giphy.com/media/SYmkILRsQTFLO/giphy.gif)

Me after logging in to check for more Dark Descent news.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 14, 2022, 08:36:01 AMhttps://media.giphy.com/media/SYmkILRsQTFLO/giphy.gif
Me after logging in to check for more Dark Descent news.

Hopefully Alien Day, if not then perhaps we'll have something for E3 in June!

Any news on this game?

Judging by the trailer it seems like it won't be a shooting gallery cannon fodder Aliens type of game. I hope it's a really hard game where you lose tons of marines along the way, as opposed to Aliens: Fireteam Elite

It definitely sounds like losing marines is going to be something that happens and you're just going to have to deal with it.

I remember in XCOM you could get kinda fond of your soldiers if they managed to make it through several missions in one piece, and it sucked to then have them die later on in the game. It was a cool way of making you actually care about what happened to them without any of them having any sort of real character or personality.

That concept was in Gears of War Tactics. Might be interesting with aliens.

Quote from: Stitch on Dec 26, 2022, 01:23:35 AMThat concept was in Gears of War Tactics. Might be interesting with aliens.

Well that game is literally Xcom with Gears overlayed on top

Quote from: Kailem on Dec 25, 2022, 09:24:51 AMIt definitely sounds like losing marines is going to be something that happens and you're just going to have to deal with it.

I remember in XCOM you could get kinda fond of your soldiers if they managed to make it through several missions in one piece, and it sucked to then have them die later on in the game. It was a cool way of making you actually care about what happened to them without any of them having any sort of real character or personality.

Sounds good to me!

I hope friendly fire and acid blood spray/splash damage is a real thing in this game, forcing the player to be as cautious and calculated as possible, or things will go south faster like an express elevator to hell. Stress, fear and exhaustion should also have a big impact on the marines, just as the leadership of each squad's NCO.

Also, make each and every Xenomorph a dangerous match, making the kill count for each mission low - I'm talking 7 to 10 adult xenos killed per mission at the very most, not counting facehugggers, eggs, chestbursters or incapacitated/severely wounded xenos. Like, pistol bullets should ricochet 9 times out of 10 against adult xenos, shotguns should only be lethal to adult xenos up close, flamethrowers should only ward off and disorient adult xenos but should be an effective lethal option against eggs/chesbursters/facehuggers, whereas pulse rifles/smartguns should be the most effective way to kill or incapacitate xenos in general, with the downside of pulse weapons resulting in the most far-reaching range and radius when it comes to acid blood spraying and splashing over nearbyish marines. Using grenades or explosives too close to a friendly marine, who's still outside of the blast radius, should still shell-shock, stun or knock over the marine temporarily. Sentry guns, proxy mines, PUPs etc. should be the mainstay of any successful mission.

If you want a incapacitated or severely wounded marine to survive, you will have to escort them to an APC, dropship or an extraction zone. The saved marine still won't be able to be used again until the next mission. Field medics should only be able to heal light wounds (light acid wounds, light shrapnel wounds, friendly fire pistol bullets or stray buckshot, light burn wounds), administer drugs that lower stress and trauma.

And NO powerloader fights, please!

According to the product page on Focus' website, Dark Descent has a release date of June 2023, priced at $40 for the Standard Edition.

https://store.focus-entmt.com/us/product/814037/aliens-dark-descent

Pre-order incentive:

QuotePurchase Aliens: Dark Descent to receive an exclusive black Armor Set for your squad of Colonial Marines and a unique feline companion to liven up the decks of the Otago.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 21, 2023, 08:53:11 AMAccording to the product page on Focus' website, Dark Descent has a release date of June 2023, priced at $40 for the Standard Edition.

https://store.focus-entmt.com/us/product/814037/aliens-dark-descent

Pre-order incentive:

QuotePurchase Aliens: Dark Descent to receive an exclusive black Armor Set for your squad of Colonial Marines and a unique feline companion to liven up the decks of the Otago.

@[cancerblack]

Just in time for Looby birthday.

Been waiting for news for so long, hope fully a new trailer soon

Very much looking forward to seeing more of this game.
Glad that the release date isn't too far away!

Looks exciting! ;D

Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Mar 21, 2023, 02:28:07 PMBeen waiting for news for so long, hope fully a new trailer soon

Psychic!

---

Looks exactly like Gears Tactics. Hopefully better, though. I'll probably hold off until it's on sale.

It looks really good! Graphics and environments look great, and the ui looks improved and more readable than in that briefly gameplay footage we saw last year.

This definitely reignited a bit of that there hype!

Looks sexy, but I struggle with this type of game. I'll have to watch @BlueMarsalis79 play it, probably.

Shame it is not on Switch

It's on Steam and has achievements, great stuff. The list of AvP games on Steam keeps growing.

What's the Achievement list look like? What number?

(You can fake them pretty easily on Steam, unlike on console though)

making a decent shooter must've been too hard.

Quote from: JT on Mar 22, 2023, 05:48:17 AMmaking a decent shooter must've been too hard.

AVP 99 and AVP2 01 already came out, the last thing Alien needs is more shooters. We need more varied games where we play as the Alien or new takes on the formula like this one.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 22, 2023, 02:05:42 AMWhat's the Achievement list look like? What number?

(You can fake them pretty easily on Steam, unlike on console though)

Or just by getting a game that is only about achievements, and thousands of them.

Agreed that we don't need more shooters, except if its Alien: Isolation 2, which isn't really a shooter.

Steam Picker it's called. Makes Steam Achievements pretty pointless imo.

While I'm looking forward to Dark Descent, I'd still never turn my nose up at a modern and decent fp shooter.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 22, 2023, 01:57:07 PMWhile I'm looking forward to Dark Descent, I'd still never turn my nose up at a modern and decent fp shooter.

Maybe the VR game?

I would not be against Alien vs. Predator 4
It's long overdue.

Quote from: Stitch on Mar 23, 2023, 12:45:25 AM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 22, 2023, 01:57:07 PMWhile I'm looking forward to Dark Descent, I'd still never turn my nose up at a modern and decent fp shooter.

Maybe the VR game?

I really want the VR game to lean into the horror, more than a shooter. But like @Wweyland says, an AvP4 would be very very welcome.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 23, 2023, 09:34:14 AM

Quote from: Stitch on Mar 23, 2023, 12:45:25 AM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 22, 2023, 01:57:07 PMWhile I'm looking forward to Dark Descent, I'd still never turn my nose up at a modern and decent fp shooter.

Maybe the VR game?

I really want the VR game to lean into the horror, more than a shooter. But like @Wweyland says, an AvP4 would be very very welcome.

I'd also hope it leans that way, but there's no denying that something like ACM in VR would be awesome.

There's also no reason the game couldn't do both. Resident Evil VII is a straight up horror, but its third act goes more action heavy. One of the best VR games of all time.

Hopefully that VR game is all claustrophobic interiors. On the larger-scale VR games I have (Skyrim, Star Wars Squadrons), the resolution of distant objects gets very potatoey. It's kind of a letdown.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 23, 2023, 09:34:14 AM

Quote from: Stitch on Mar 23, 2023, 12:45:25 AM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 22, 2023, 01:57:07 PMWhile I'm looking forward to Dark Descent, I'd still never turn my nose up at a modern and decent fp shooter.

Maybe the VR game?

I really want the VR game to lean into the horror, more than a shooter. But like @Wweyland says, an AvP4 would be very very welcome.

A vr game you say? Is that survival horror we've been hearing about?

Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Mar 24, 2023, 05:25:56 AM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 23, 2023, 09:34:14 AM

Quote from: Stitch on Mar 23, 2023, 12:45:25 AM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 22, 2023, 01:57:07 PMWhile I'm looking forward to Dark Descent, I'd still never turn my nose up at a modern and decent fp shooter.

Maybe the VR game?

I really want the VR game to lean into the horror, more than a shooter. But like @Wweyland says, an AvP4 would be very very welcome.

A vr game you say? Is that survival horror we've been hearing about?

https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2022/07/14/survios-bringing-new-aliens-game-to-pc-consoles-vr/

That's all we know so far.

Just found this 10-minute off-the-screen gameplay video that someone just posted from PAX:

https://twitter.com/Focus_entmt/status/1639722031909335041

Looks atmospheric, to say the least. Aliens: Fireteam was too into your face, I hope this has better pacing.

Love what I'm seeing! The difficulty is on easy obviously, but also seen in the right upper corner. The only silly thing as of now is the one Alien that did the same sideways zip dash that looks funny. Same as in the trailer. Not really breaking anything, but I hope that's a bug and not an actual moveset for the alien. ;)

The atmosphere is gorgeous!

Looks like you collect DNA or genetic material from the dead Aliens.

---

And you can weld doors behind you. That's interesting. There's potential there to f**k yourself over by putting obstacles in your own way for your retreat.

QuoteAnd you can weld doors behind you. That's interesting. There's potential there to f**k yourself over by putting obstacles in your own way for your retreat.

Hell yeah, that's what I was hoping for! It looks great so far. 40 for the standard edition sounds like a good deal, too.

I really dont get a lot of the hate for this game im seeing online. Seems that is its not a FPS or Isolation 2 its an instant dismissal of any new game.

(https://i.redd.it/1qq6r6bxtfwa1.png)

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on May 11, 2023, 01:38:10 PMhttps://i.redd.it/1qq6r6bxtfwa1.png

Wasnt gonna pre order but that Cats got me.

I just hope we can name the cat.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 03, 2023, 07:32:01 AMAnd you can weld doors behind you. That's interesting. There's potential there to f**k yourself over by putting obstacles in your own way for your retreat.

The door welding chase setpiece in Colonial Marines is literally the only part of that game I have relatively fond memories of. Something like that could have worked really well as a chase sequence in Isolation, actually.

Why have we not got a list of the Alien types in this or some of them yet?

I am starting to get nervous!

Where are my Runners and Prowlers?

I NEED THEM BRO

I spotted some runners in the earlier trailers, but seeing how this game is more tactical I expect it to have some sort of ingame bestiary, no less work for me ;D

Quote from: PAS Spinelli on May 16, 2023, 08:39:01 PMI spotted some runners in the earlier trailers,

Can you show me?

Pretty please?

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/687781300232388650/1108163476855193660/image.png)

Yaaay! Now purchaseable. Thank you!  ;D

I'd be very surprised if it shows up, but I'm hoping for a praetorian!

They have confirmed in older descriptions of the game that not only Praetorians, but Crushers and Queens are making an appearance. And visually we have seen Drones, Soldiers, Runners, human WY PMCs, Working Joes and the mutated people.   

We've seen the Crushers. And What is almost certainly a Praetorian.

Quote from: [cancerblack] on May 19, 2023, 07:53:44 PMWe've seen the Crushers. And What is almost certainly a Praetorian.

It has rotting human teeth for some reason, I think it is the prodigy of the hybrids, or rather modified humans.

Yeah, I'm personally more and more leaning towards that Alien at the end not being the Praetorian we know is in the game.

Just another month til release!

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on May 19, 2023, 10:12:15 PM

Quote from: [cancerblack] on May 19, 2023, 07:53:44 PMWe've seen the Crushers. And What is almost certainly a Praetorian.

It has rotting human teeth for some reason, I think it is the prodigy of the hybrids, or rather modified humans.

Prodigy?

Yeah as in an Alien that came from one of them potentially.

*progeny <3

Oh duh

Quote from: [cancerblack] on May 25, 2023, 09:20:47 PM*progeny <3

Makes more sense. I was thinking the hybrids made a hyper intelligent version or something.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/040bfa28daf59ac8d17b17e7fdad3ca7/tumblr_n5tl45aKhY1s2wio8o3_500.gif)

Early gameplay.

I watched the opening level. This looks super intriguing and something very different. Looking forward to playing.

Looks like a fair few people got early copies over the weekend.

Indeed, looking forward to finally playing it tomorrow myself. Almost time now. As a reminder here are the release times for Console and Steam:

(https://scontent.fslc3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354435219_724979162969539_6652807810631340292_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=bX8mabuKU_QAX9DXsL2&_nc_ht=scontent.fslc3-1.fna&oh=00_AfBOW4P-uMHpJ9-pX3pCCAmq8m5J_yocG6O-798_NFw_qg&oe=6493CD8B)

(https://scontent.fslc3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353811580_724979386302850_4671524395936410332_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=GbQrqrFrhNYAX_RXMtS&_nc_ht=scontent.fslc3-2.fna&oh=00_AfAKbxX2uAE7cz9CoVHZVhZGkTkgoVbvlmsz3WL32bV6Ag&oe=64936102)

Huh ... I thought it was at least several months away

Looking forward to the Steam version

I'm just hoping Amazon is bs'ing about my physical copy being delivered the day after release.

Amazon's telling me Thursday...

I've only had a chance to play the intro and part way into mission one so far.

That play session came to an end when one of my squad members passed out during an intense battle so I grabbed him up and made a retreat. It was actually an incredible experience and felt authentic Aliens. Laying down fire while being on the back foot, it was the hive scene from the second movie.

I'm not usually a big fan of these types of games but it's won me over. Can't wait to dive back in.

Quote from: Nukiemorph on Jun 18, 2023, 11:23:48 PMAmazon's telling me Thursday...

Digital chads:

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AncientSatisfiedFlickertailsquirrel-size_restricted.gif)

Quote from: Nukiemorph on Jun 18, 2023, 11:23:48 PMAmazon's telling me Thursday...

So, so close!

I was hoping that maybe it might arrive a day early like RE4 did, but no such luck. Hopefully at least it actually arrives on release date tomorrow!

Embargo lifted about an hour and half ago. We should start seeing reviews drop soon.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/6227878cfdf7537b5036cb0ce70a15c8/tumblr_o93atbPsdD1qjsc4fo1_500.gif)

I must say it's a bit of a weird time to release the game.
I mean on a Tuesday just before Midsummer day when everyone is outside.
Maybe I'm just jealous as I don't have time to play it.

Finally my copy hath arrived! Looking forward to descending darkly tonight!

Finnished it today. am i first?

I finished it also about a few days ago, like you. Something like 50 hours put in, man was I slow!

Loved the game, hope it gets story expansions or DLC, or a sequel. That ending needs to be expanded upon. It was so fun, but so stressing, I need to take a break from the game before I replay it again. I played it on easy super safe with pause. Everyone lived of course, but it was still hard keeping them alive.

I plan to try it on nightmare or a similar custom difficulty on the next playthrough. I'm so glad we got something that's this special. A love letter to the RPG, to Alien, Aliens and Alien 3, to the old Dark Horse comics like Destroying Angels and no sign of the Pathogen for once. 

Quote from: Still Collating... on Jun 27, 2023, 08:35:27 PMI finished it also about a few days ago, like you. Something like 50 hours put in, man was I slow!

Loved the game, hope it gets story expansions or DLC, or a sequel. That ending needs to be expanded upon. It was so fun, but so stressing, I need to take a break from the game before I replay it again. I played it on easy super safe with pause. Everyone lived of course, but it was still hard keeping them alive.

I plan to try it on nightmare or a similar custom difficulty on the next playthrough. I'm so glad we got something that's this special. A love letter to the RPG, to Alien, Aliens and Alien 3, to the old Dark Horse comics like Destroying Angels and no sign of the Pathogen for once. 

Finished it last night on easy 30+ hours, no pause though, what's the fun in that? :D Lost one marine and had 19 days left before planetary bombardment.. In hindsight I really wished I played on a harder difficulty. There were too many technical bugs though, forcing me to reload saves on several occasions.

The L1 and R1 buttons in the skill menu seem to be mere suggestions on PS5. No way in hell would I play with slow-mo when it can take seven button pushes before the menu finally decides to respond.

I saw at least one other person on Reddit with the same issue. Really hoping they patch this soon.

Quote from: Still Collating... on Jun 27, 2023, 08:35:27 PMI'm so glad we got something that's this special. A love letter to the RPG, to Alien, Aliens and Alien 3, to the old Dark Horse comics like Destroying Angels and no sign of the Pathogen for once. 

This time the Space Jockey stuff seems to come out of the world of Scorn! ;D  8)🙏

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 28, 2023, 01:07:25 PM

Quote from: Still Collating... on Jun 27, 2023, 08:35:27 PMI'm so glad we got something that's this special. A love letter to the RPG, to Alien, Aliens and Alien 3, to the old Dark Horse comics like Destroying Angels and no sign of the Pathogen for once. 

This time the Space Jockey stuff seems to come out of the world of Scorn! ;D  8)🙏

And it was beautiful, but no spoilers though for others, so that's all I'll say.

No Pathogen? Well, thats a switch!

Spoiler

And no engineers, holograms, or flutes,

[close]

Spoiler

Nice link to the RPG with the Montero.

[close]

Game looks really solid. Seeing all the things inspired by the RPG and the Dark Horse comics really made me happy.

Looking forward to grabbing this when i get a new pc.

Got spoiled on some details of the ending portion recently.

Spoiler

I loathe the eight petaled massive Eggs and (therefore implied) Facehuggers here, can the regular ones not just use acid to make a hole if necessary and shoot their goo? It just seems like unnecessary bigger better dumb power scaling and totally undermines the "perfect organism" if it must adapt so much before even coming into contact with a host.

[close]

The rest looks neat.

Quote from: Wweyland on Jun 30, 2023, 10:51:02 AMNo Pathogen? Well, thats a switch!

It definitely feels more like the old EU to me.  Which I am quite fond of. 

people keep calling them the perfect organism and talk about them being so adaptive. What exactly are they referring to?

I thought the

Spoiler

Big Eggs

[close]

was a solid attempt at showing this. Perhaps this is an older strain.

Quote from: Kimarhi on Jul 02, 2023, 05:33:31 AM

Quote from: Wweyland on Jun 30, 2023, 10:51:02 AMNo Pathogen? Well, thats a switch!

It definitely feels more like the old EU to me.  Which I am quite fond of. 

I'm very happy that this game didn't take Prometheus and Covenant lore to make his story.

Quote from: bobby brown on Jul 03, 2023, 01:22:41 PMI thought the

Spoiler

Big Eggs

[close]

was a solid attempt at showing this. Perhaps this is an older strain.

I appreciate the idea, less so the execution.

It's more challenging than similar, like Xcom, because it includes additional factors, like dealing with resource limitations during missions.

The problem, as one gamer in another forum pointed out, is that those factors may eventually overwhelm, turning the game into a set of squad-based missions with an Alien skin, but with several cut scenes to make up for such. In which case, one can imagine not using the Aliens franchise for the game and getting similar results, or even coming up with other storylines for the same or similar missions.

OTOH, one can argue that similar applies to something like Alien: Isolation in light of games like those from the Amnesia franchise, though: action-adventures where you simply hide and solve puzzles.

In which case, what would a fan of the franchise consider? Probably a game that combines both?

Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jun 30, 2023, 04:04:38 PM

Spoiler

Nice link to the RPG with the Montero.

[close]

Yeah, I smiled at that too.

Quote from: Kimarhi on Jul 02, 2023, 05:33:31 AM

Quote from: Wweyland on Jun 30, 2023, 10:51:02 AMNo Pathogen? Well, thats a switch!

It definitely feels more like the old EU to me.  Which I am quite fond of.

For sure. I think the best description of the game is its like an adaptation of a scenario from the RPG. The RPG already has a lot of love for the old EU embodied in it, and Dark Descent feels like a scenario taking advantage of all of that.

So second best Alien game in the last 20 years?

As far as I'm concerned, hell yeah.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 01, 2023, 11:05:12 PMGot spoiled on some details of the ending portion recently.

Spoiler

I loathe the eight petaled massive Eggs and (therefore implied) Facehuggers here, can the regular ones not just use acid to make a hole if necessary and shoot their goo? It just seems like unnecessary bigger better dumb power scaling and totally undermines the "perfect organism" if it must adapt so much before even coming into contact with a host.

[close]

The rest looks neat.

I'm torn on that honestly. A part of me, just like you, thinks it's silly and unnecessary. But also, seems cool aesthetically and maybe it's an older strain, maybe they originally were like that?

Much like David and his (contraband) at the end of Covenant, I think its just making up for a plothole and rather silly writing. I mean like....how were eggs made in the first place if there was no queen?

Grown? I always like to think the eggs in the hold, in alien, are growing out of the ground. like a pumpkin patch from hell.

Quote from: bobby brown on Jul 14, 2023, 07:05:04 PMlike a pumpkin patch from hell.

::)

Egg-morphing forever!

Quote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Jul 14, 2023, 02:26:18 PMhow were eggs made in the first place if there was no queen?

There was no queen in the first movie either. Lots of eggs though.

Before the big blue goofballs introduced in Prometheus, I always just assumed the jockeys had collected them.  It looks all like part of the ship, even if it is below ground, so I always considered the ship to either be sitting on top of a base, or just had been there long enough parts of it were submerged. 

Prometheus and Covenant the concerned parties had the black goo which they can do anything with.  Because it is magic.  Just wait.  Marvel is going to have an Alien snorting a line of that shit and punching superman into a blackhole. 

Quote from: Kimarhi on Jul 16, 2023, 01:23:30 AMJust wait.  Marvel is going to have an Alien snorting a line of that shit and punching superman into a blackhole.

SOLD !

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdjxdaGChn1rd22pho1_400.gif)

Finally snatched this up during the 20% Steam Sale

Game is on sale right now on Steam, 25% off. I finally grabbed it tonight. Got it installing now, not sure when I'm gonna get to start playing but fingers crossed this weekend! Some of the spoilery stuff I've seen from it has me very intrigued.

Welp, only played through the tutorial mission so far (and only playing on medium), but I already died a few times during the stealth portion!

Can already tell this one is going to get tense. Really liking the look/feel of it so far. Definitely getting a heavy Dark Horse sensibility right off the bat, too.

I have also finished only the tutorial mission. I have a fear of "doing it wrong" and losing a lot of progress.

One thing that seriously throws me off is that the camera keeps spinning after each cutscene (which there are a lot of). I have played quite a lot of RTS-ses and like the camera to have "Up is North".
Now I have to rotate it all the time, otherwise, I get seriously disoriented.

Quote from: Wweyland on Sep 08, 2023, 09:08:27 PMOne thing that seriously throws me off is that the camera keeps spinning after each cutscene (which there are a lot of). I have played quite a lot of RTS-ses and like the camera to have "Up is North".
Now I have to rotate it all the time, otherwise, I get seriously disoriented.

I started getting used to it a bit as the tutorial was going on but, yeah, this also threw me off a bit initially.

Currently on sale on Steam -25%

Motion Capture, includes spoilers:


Uploaded the same day:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/PXBZZo

https://twitter.com/Focus_entmt/status/1717473693834620932

Welp, at least now you can  try to make your own full on cybernetic team. lots of limbs will be shed.

So is this like if I do the new game plus it's just gonna be the same thing again while I have stronger men or is this like the dead space remake where things are a little bit different around.

You can change the diffiuclty levl.

The new game plus isn't too special. Tried it and my main squad didn't get ported over which was such a shame... They screwed something up greatly there. But the thing that excited me was the additional optional sliders! That's how you do custom difficulty! You know how a normal Alien attack takes 1 block of health/armor away? You can change that now up to 6 (+5). Yes, one small attack can take out 6 bars! Nice, that's just what I want. Difficulty done not by making the enemies health spongier, but by increasing their damage (speed and or number of Aliens in an Onslaught would be my wish as well but I can live with this...). You can also start the infestation level of the planet to whatever you choose. For us who like to make the game hard but fair/realistic, this is so good!

Still, really wasn't expecting this kind of update about the new features and New game plus (which is a bit underwhelming). I wonder what they have in store for the future updates?

It's like the same game with new skins, e.g., Alien, Fallout, Wasteland, etc.

Quote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Oct 26, 2023, 04:05:08 PMWelp, at least now you can  try to make your own full on cybernetic team. lots of limbs will be shed.

This went a bit under the radar

▶️ Space Jockey Corridors Concept Art by Emilien Morisset (https://www.artstation.com/artwork/49P91q)

(https://i.ibb.co/CBDZDhR/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-02-1.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/ncwQZJc/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-06.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/TT0wMPh/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-08.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/grwY7P3/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-07.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/Vp9tVDT/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-05.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/6rnzW9x/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-09.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/r0BFDST/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-04.jpg)

I've always admired the original space jockey room and subsequent narrow ribbbed hallways of the original film however it still doesn't strike me as a place an xenomorph would loom. Like its not intentionally built for the xeno like the hive space is and no canon (especially AFTE) actually places an xeno inside it for any intention other than fighting you.
I would like to see more of these in film and never actually having any explanation. Just a budget hogger.

I managed to finish the Dead Hills level, but I'm struggling with some game mechanics (and a few random crashes). The smuggler-subplot (and the whole mines section) remained locked for me, as I might have done things in the wrong order (or maybe it was just bugged).
I relied heavily on the APC doing the killing for me.

In the long run, is it better to try to finish all objectives and collectibles, but leave your squad in a worse state (not dead but low health, mental issues) at the end of the level?

My biggest fear is playing the game "wrong", and being "locked out" of progressing in the final levels because either the "death clock" has run out or I'm out of resources/marines.

Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 13, 2023, 08:24:35 AMI managed to finish the Dead Hills level, but I'm struggling with some game mechanics (and a few random crashes). The smuggler-subplot (and the whole mines section) remained locked for me, as I might have done things in the wrong order (or maybe it was just bugged).
I relied heavily on the APC doing the killing for me.

In the long run, is it better to try to finish all objectives and collectibles, but leave your squad in a worse state (not dead but low health, mental issues) at the end of the level?

My biggest fear is playing the game "wrong", and being "locked out" of progressing in the final levels because either the "death clock" has run out or I'm out of resources/marines.

You could always evac and come back with a new squad

Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 13, 2023, 08:24:35 AMI managed to finish the Dead Hills level, but I'm struggling with some game mechanics (and a few random crashes). The smuggler-subplot (and the whole mines section) remained locked for me, as I might have done things in the wrong order (or maybe it was just bugged).
I relied heavily on the APC doing the killing for me.

In the long run, is it better to try to finish all objectives and collectibles, but leave your squad in a worse state (not dead but low health, mental issues) at the end of the level?

My biggest fear is playing the game "wrong", and being "locked out" of progressing in the final levels because either the "death clock" has run out or I'm out of resources/marines.

You can play the game now with the death clock turned off if you're willing to restart. But even with it on, it only turns on like half way through the game. Before it's just the infestation level that slowly creeps up.

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Oct 28, 2023, 05:30:46 PM▶️ Space Jockey Corridors Concept Art by Emilien Morisset (https://www.artstation.com/artwork/49P91q)

https://i.ibb.co/CBDZDhR/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-02-1.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/ncwQZJc/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-06.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/TT0wMPh/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-08.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/grwY7P3/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-07.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Vp9tVDT/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-05.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/6rnzW9x/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-09.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/r0BFDST/emilien-morisset-concept-art-mission-giger-04.jpg

Absolutely fantastic, I love that they're adding more cosmic horror elements in the alien franchise

Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Nov 13, 2023, 04:20:46 PM

Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 13, 2023, 08:24:35 AMI managed to finish the Dead Hills level, but I'm struggling with some game mechanics (and a few random crashes). The smuggler-subplot (and the whole mines section) remained locked for me, as I might have done things in the wrong order (or maybe it was just bugged).
I relied heavily on the APC doing the killing for me.

In the long run, is it better to try to finish all objectives and collectibles, but leave your squad in a worse state (not dead but low health, mental issues) at the end of the level?

My biggest fear is playing the game "wrong", and being "locked out" of progressing in the final levels because either the "death clock" has run out or I'm out of resources/marines.

You could always evac and come back with a new squad

Does that restart the level from the beginning and do I have limited marines?

Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 13, 2023, 08:28:02 PM

Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Nov 13, 2023, 04:20:46 PM

Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 13, 2023, 08:24:35 AMI managed to finish the Dead Hills level, but I'm struggling with some game mechanics (and a few random crashes). The smuggler-subplot (and the whole mines section) remained locked for me, as I might have done things in the wrong order (or maybe it was just bugged).
I relied heavily on the APC doing the killing for me.

In the long run, is it better to try to finish all objectives and collectibles, but leave your squad in a worse state (not dead but low health, mental issues) at the end of the level?

My biggest fear is playing the game "wrong", and being "locked out" of progressing in the final levels because either the "death clock" has run out or I'm out of resources/marines.

You could always evac and come back with a new squad

Does that restart the level from the beginning and do I have limited marines?

You'll go back to the ship and you'll keep your progress and marines

I managed to complete the mine level by deploying back a few days later.
The mines were great and reminded me of the mines from Fallout 2.

However, the second level in the docks threw me off a bit, with the human enemies.

How I'm playing is that when a marine is concussed/killed/abducted, I just reload an earlier save.

Does the game say what year it takes place?

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 08, 2023, 03:48:10 PMDoes the game say what year it takes place?

Yep, 2198.

Quote from: Nukiemorph on Dec 08, 2023, 04:45:34 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 08, 2023, 03:48:10 PMDoes the game say what year it takes place?

Yep, 2198.

Cool, thanks!

So based on dialogue in the tutorial (that's only as far as I've gotten so far) the USCM doesn't quite know about Aliens (or at least common soldiers don't) despite the Alien RPG and Fireteam Elite.

Do you know offhand when Fireteam Elite is set? I don't remember.

Fireteam Elite is in 2202.

Quote from: Nukiemorph on Dec 08, 2023, 05:35:05 PMFireteam Elite is in 2202.

Ohh, so even further in the timeline. Thanks!

And nobody remembers the Alien-Earth War that just recently happened :)

Because it did not.

I'm sure Romulus will somehow contradict every single game/book/comic that anyone still considers canon anyway.

I think what's canon is ultimately dependent on what franchise holders authorize for release, including in novels, comic books, and games.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 09, 2023, 02:25:02 AMI think what's canon is ultimately dependent on what franchise holders authorize for release, including in novels, comic books, and games.

You should ignore what they say and decide what you want to be canon based on what gives you the most enjoyment.

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 09, 2023, 02:27:31 AM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 09, 2023, 02:25:02 AMI think what's canon is ultimately dependent on what franchise holders authorize for release, including in novels, comic books, and games.

You should ignore what they say and decide what you want to be canon based on what gives you the most enjoyment.

Franchise holders decide what gets put in these works. Given that, the only way to ignore them and decide what you want is to create fan fiction in different media and release them for non-commercial use, with the hope that you won't get shut down.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 09, 2023, 04:04:43 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 09, 2023, 02:27:31 AM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 09, 2023, 02:25:02 AMI think what's canon is ultimately dependent on what franchise holders authorize for release, including in novels, comic books, and games.

You should ignore what they say and decide what you want to be canon based on what gives you the most enjoyment.

Franchise holders decide what gets put in these works. Given that, the only way to ignore them and decide what you want is to create fan fiction in different media and release them for non-commercial use, with the hope that you won't get shut down.

I'm not saying write and publish fan-fiction (although I guess you can do what you want), just that you are not beholden to what some company thinks is or isn't "canon".

I was just joking because that's been the series tradition.

Alien 3, Resurrection, Prometheus, AND Covenant all managed to throw wrenches into the extended universe.

Maybe they will introduce the "Multiverse" with alternate timelines.
Time-traveling Predators (or Engineers), etc.

I'm good, we've had enough of that stuff, bad enough hypothetical alone teased in The Predator.

that will be too much of a stretch even for me, beside other than Godzilla, I think we have enough of that stuff.

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 09, 2023, 04:48:16 AMI'm not saying write and publish fan-fiction (although I guess you can do what you want), just that you are not beholden to what some company thinks is or isn't "canon".

Some will argue something is canon and some will argue otherwise, but what will be released and shown is what's approved by those who own the IP. Meanwhile, the latter can choose to go against those, too.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 10, 2023, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 09, 2023, 04:48:16 AMI'm not saying write and publish fan-fiction (although I guess you can do what you want), just that you are not beholden to what some company thinks is or isn't "canon".

Some will argue something is canon and some will argue otherwise, but what will be released and shown is what's approved by those who own the IP. Meanwhile, the latter can choose to go against those, too.

Well I mean sure, the IP holders can decide what is or isn't "officially canon" whenever they want, my point is that you shouldn't care what they say and should do what makes you happy. They can't "force" you to believe something is or isn't canon.

Okay so I think I'm stuck, I'm in Dead Hills and I'm supposed to find a bunch of cameras (marked on my map) and use them to find the source of the infestation or something? Where are these cameras and how do I interact with them? I'm going to each point in the map but I have no idea what to do and I don't see anything to interact with.

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 10, 2023, 05:05:02 PM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 10, 2023, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 09, 2023, 04:48:16 AMI'm not saying write and publish fan-fiction (although I guess you can do what you want), just that you are not beholden to what some company thinks is or isn't "canon".

Some will argue something is canon and some will argue otherwise, but what will be released and shown is what's approved by those who own the IP. Meanwhile, the latter can choose to go against those, too.

Well I mean sure, the IP holders can decide what is or isn't "officially canon" whenever they want, my point is that you shouldn't care what they say and should do what makes you happy. They can't "force" you to believe something is or isn't canon.

People are fans of these shows obviously because they see them on TV and the movies, play them in games, read them in comic books and novels, etc. Except for fan-made works, these are released with permission of the IP owners. So whatever you see in them is officially canon, whether you like it or not.

Now, you can argue that something isn't, but the only way you can prove that is to create works that defy what the owners allowed. But you will need to spend money and probably even face legal problems by doing so. If you don't, then what you keep arguing should be so only takes place in your imagination.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 11, 2023, 12:38:34 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 10, 2023, 05:05:02 PM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 10, 2023, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 09, 2023, 04:48:16 AMI'm not saying write and publish fan-fiction (although I guess you can do what you want), just that you are not beholden to what some company thinks is or isn't "canon".

Some will argue something is canon and some will argue otherwise, but what will be released and shown is what's approved by those who own the IP. Meanwhile, the latter can choose to go against those, too.

Well I mean sure, the IP holders can decide what is or isn't "officially canon" whenever they want, my point is that you shouldn't care what they say and should do what makes you happy. They can't "force" you to believe something is or isn't canon.

People are fans of these shows obviously because they see them on TV and the movies, play them in games, read them in comic books and novels, etc. Except for fan-made works, these are released with permission of the IP owners. So whatever you see in them is officially canon, whether you like it or not.

Now, you can argue that something isn't, but the only way you can prove that is to create works that defy what the owners allowed. But you will need to spend money and probably even face legal problems by doing so. If you don't, then what you keep arguing should be so only takes place in your imagination.

I'm not sure you understand; independent of your ability to make fan fiction or not, "official canon" is a nonsense concept designed to guide creative talent as they make new licensed material, it is not a useful concept for the end user.

If Titan writes an officially licensed book called "Aliens: Ripley" which reveals that Ripley had a twin sister who got abducted by Engineers when they were 10 and the Engineers transformed the sister into a cat who ended up being Jones in 'Alien' and Ripley didn't know it, you are not obligated to take that book as "canon" just because Fox/Disney/whoever says it's "officially canon".

You can say, "no thanks, I don't like it, that's stupid" and ignore it wholesale and there is not a single thing anyone can do to stop you.

Likewise, if you were to create a cool character in the Alien RPG and you really liked them and their adventures and you wanted to incorporate them into your head-canon, there is also nothing anyone can do to stop you.

For the end-user, head-canon trumps "official canon" 100% of the time.

All canons are welcome

Spoiler

(https://i.ibb.co/5nXBwfQ/b1e7c6d4d81fb5cc37c7924078a55e14.png)

[close]

(https://s5.gifyu.com/images/SiuxD.gif)

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 11, 2023, 01:07:16 AMIf Titan writes an officially licensed book called "Aliens: Ripley" which reveals that Ripley had a twin sister who got abducted by Engineers when they were 10 and the Engineers transformed the sister into a cat who ended up being Jones in 'Alien' and Ripley didn't know it

Titan, if you're reading this, call me.

Might as well call ralfy for a Burke origin..

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 11, 2023, 01:07:16 AM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 11, 2023, 12:38:34 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 10, 2023, 05:05:02 PM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 10, 2023, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 09, 2023, 04:48:16 AMI'm not saying write and publish fan-fiction (although I guess you can do what you want), just that you are not beholden to what some company thinks is or isn't "canon".

Some will argue something is canon and some will argue otherwise, but what will be released and shown is what's approved by those who own the IP. Meanwhile, the latter can choose to go against those, too.

Well I mean sure, the IP holders can decide what is or isn't "officially canon" whenever they want, my point is that you shouldn't care what they say and should do what makes you happy. They can't "force" you to believe something is or isn't canon.

People are fans of these shows obviously because they see them on TV and the movies, play them in games, read them in comic books and novels, etc. Except for fan-made works, these are released with permission of the IP owners. So whatever you see in them is officially canon, whether you like it or not.

Now, you can argue that something isn't, but the only way you can prove that is to create works that defy what the owners allowed. But you will need to spend money and probably even face legal problems by doing so. If you don't, then what you keep arguing should be so only takes place in your imagination.

I'm not sure you understand; independent of your ability to make fan fiction or not, "official canon" is a nonsense concept designed to guide creative talent as they make new licensed material, it is not a useful concept for the end user.

If Titan writes an officially licensed book called "Aliens: Ripley" which reveals that Ripley had a twin sister who got abducted by Engineers when they were 10 and the Engineers transformed the sister into a cat who ended up being Jones in 'Alien' and Ripley didn't know it, you are not obligated to take that book as "canon" just because Fox/Disney/whoever says it's "officially canon".

You can say, "no thanks, I don't like it, that's stupid" and ignore it wholesale and there is not a single thing anyone can do to stop you.

Likewise, if you were to create a cool character in the Alien RPG and you really liked them and their adventures and you wanted to incorporate them into your head-canon, there is also nothing anyone can do to stop you.

For the end-user, head-canon trumps "official canon" 100% of the time.

As long as IP holders approve that book, then there's nothing you can do about it. You can ignore it, but it's still canon. If you try to remedy it by coming up with your own book and receive no authorization, then you will be blocked legally, and your idea will only remain in your head. At best, you can only have fan fiction.

Why is this important? Because of the definition of "canon":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)

QuoteThe canon of a work of fiction is "the body of works taking place in a particular fictional world that are widely considered to be official or authoritative; [especially] those created by the original author or developer of the world".[2] Canon is contrasted with, or used as the basis for, works of fan fiction and other derivative works.[3]

That means if there's anything that makes no sense, it's the idea of a "head-canon." That's because with that there's no wide consideration at all, as your view is not official or authoritative.

What to make, then, of your example? You can argue that the story of a Ripley twin is stupid and that you don't like it, but it's still canon because the IP holders approved it. Similarly, for example, I have to acknowledge the fact that Max's child is no longer a boy but a girl because of what was depicted in Fury Road. How to explain the discrepancy? Maybe future writers can include in the canon that Max became delusional in the first movie such that he thought all along that he had a boy when it was actually a girl.

---

Quote from: kwisatz on Dec 11, 2023, 02:24:32 AMMight as well call ralfy for a Burke origin..

Cameron already explained that.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 11, 2023, 08:47:44 AMYou can ignore it, but it's still canon.

The point is that it doesn't matter; you can ignore "official canon" at will with no repercussions.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 11, 2023, 08:47:44 AMThat means if there's anything that makes no sense, it's the idea of a "head-canon." That's because with that there's no wide consideration at all, as your view is not official or authoritative.

My view doesn't have to be official or authoritative for anyone but me, and my view trumps the company line of the IP holder 100% of the time. I am not obligated to listen to, care about, or follow anything the IP holders think or say, and there is nothing they (or anyone else) can do about it.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 11, 2023, 08:47:44 AMSimilarly, for example, I have to acknowledge the fact that Max's child is no longer a boy but a girl because of what was depicted in Fury Road. How to explain the discrepancy? Maybe future writers can include in the canon that Max became delusional in the first movie such that he thought all along that he had a boy when it was actually a girl.

Your choice of Mad Max is interesting because the series is explicitly presented as unreliable-narrator folklore by George Miller; discrepancies and inconsistencies are specifically baked into the setting, on purpose.

(The girl in the Fury Road flashbacks isn't supposed to be his kid. It's a child he failed to save in a prequel comic that nobody read.)

Quote from: Nukiemorph on Dec 11, 2023, 09:36:55 PM(The girl in the Fury Road flashbacks isn't supposed to be his kid. It's a child he failed to save in a prequel comic that nobody read.)

I think I read it, but it was so forgettable. There was also something related to it in the Mad Max game.

Quote from: Wweyland on Dec 11, 2023, 10:52:47 PM

Quote from: Nukiemorph on Dec 11, 2023, 09:36:55 PM(The girl in the Fury Road flashbacks isn't supposed to be his kid. It's a child he failed to save in a prequel comic that nobody read.)

I think I read it, but it was so forgettable. There was also something related to it in the Mad Max game.

The mad max game was awesome.

Speaking of games, Aliens: Dark Descent is a videogame! Anyone have any tips for dealing with the Queen you find down in the mines?

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 11, 2023, 10:54:50 PM

Quote from: Wweyland on Dec 11, 2023, 10:52:47 PM

Quote from: Nukiemorph on Dec 11, 2023, 09:36:55 PM(The girl in the Fury Road flashbacks isn't supposed to be his kid. It's a child he failed to save in a prequel comic that nobody read.)

I think I read it, but it was so forgettable. There was also something related to it in the Mad Max game.

The mad max game was awesome.

Speaking of games, Aliens: Dark Descent is a videogame! Anyone have any tips for dealing with the Queen you find down in the mines?

Tips? Focus fire on the Queen. Your best bet always is to kill her before she gets to you, cause when she does, it's game over very quickly. It would be good for you to have at least one new weapon. A flamer is good for making and arc of flame (drag and drop to make a wall of fire) so that you're protected against the huggers. A sniper rifle does great damage. Grenades are a must to stun the Queen and interrupt her charge. Before attacking, heal and have full command points at the ready. Use adrenalin when you can and use the "tactical analysis" option (costs you 1 tool for instant 2 command point regen). have one sentry pointed the way you came, behind you, and at least one if not 2 pointed at the door before you enter and meet the Queen. Once the cinematic is done, you can go back, opening the door and giving your turrets a clear line of fire. If you know how to turn your sentries that is.

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 11, 2023, 03:38:58 PM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 11, 2023, 08:47:44 AMYou can ignore it, but it's still canon.

The point is that it doesn't matter; you can ignore "official canon" at will with no repercussions.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 11, 2023, 08:47:44 AMThat means if there's anything that makes no sense, it's the idea of a "head-canon." That's because with that there's no wide consideration at all, as your view is not official or authoritative.

My view doesn't have to be official or authoritative for anyone but me, and my view trumps the company line of the IP holder 100% of the time. I am not obligated to listen to, care about, or follow anything the IP holders think or say, and there is nothing they (or anyone else) can do about it.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 11, 2023, 08:47:44 AMSimilarly, for example, I have to acknowledge the fact that Max's child is no longer a boy but a girl because of what was depicted in Fury Road. How to explain the discrepancy? Maybe future writers can include in the canon that Max became delusional in the first movie such that he thought all along that he had a boy when it was actually a girl.

Your choice of Mad Max is interesting because the series is explicitly presented as unreliable-narrator folklore by George Miller; discrepancies and inconsistencies are specifically baked into the setting, on purpose.

You can ignore or support it, but there are repercussions. If most people don't like the way the franchise is being developed, then they'll turn away. When that happens, the franchise dies, and the owners can have it remained buried indefinitely.

Of course, your view doesn't have to be authoritative or official, as it's all just in your head. Even your claim that your view trumps what is official is also just in your head.

But when fans talk about canon, they're not talking about what's in each person's head because that's irrelevant. The very definition of the term, as you explained to you earlier, is what's widely considered to be official and authoritative, and the only ones who can state what's official and authoritative are the ones who own it. Your view stays in your head or whoever fans will follow and support you.

Finally, I don't remember seeing what you said in the first three Mad Max movies. What I do remember is that he patterned the story after literary works inspired by myths, like Moby-Dick. Hence, characters with names like Toe Cutter and Starbuck.

---

Quote from: Nukiemorph on Dec 11, 2023, 09:36:55 PM(The girl in the Fury Road flashbacks isn't supposed to be his kid. It's a child he failed to save in a prequel comic that nobody read.)

From what I remember, the child in the first movie is not only a boy but an infant, and run over by bikes. I can't remember the flashback that much, but it was like a young girl run over by cars. Also, the one who was run over like that, and by bikes, was Max's wife. The camera only shows the infant's shoe; or was it a toy?

Also, Max's hair becomes long as his vehicle returns, and he's attacked by gangsters. It alludes to the second movie, where he has shorter hair and confronts fewer men. His hair becomes longer only in the third movie, and he no longer has the car.

After the flashback, his hair becomes short again.

It's as if they've been retconning events repeatedly across various media and within the new movie itself.

---

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 11, 2023, 10:54:50 PMThe mad max game was awesome.

Speaking of games, Aliens: Dark Descent is a videogame! Anyone have any tips for dealing with the Queen you find down in the mines?

That's why the twin of canon is acceptance: as long as people will rush and pay for it, producers will make more of it.

In this case, if they make changes in things like video games and the latter become popular, then they'll depict that in future movies.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 12, 2023, 12:04:27 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 11, 2023, 03:38:58 PM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 11, 2023, 08:47:44 AMYou can ignore it, but it's still canon.

The point is that it doesn't matter; you can ignore "official canon" at will with no repercussions.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 11, 2023, 08:47:44 AMThat means if there's anything that makes no sense, it's the idea of a "head-canon." That's because with that there's no wide consideration at all, as your view is not official or authoritative.

My view doesn't have to be official or authoritative for anyone but me, and my view trumps the company line of the IP holder 100% of the time. I am not obligated to listen to, care about, or follow anything the IP holders think or say, and there is nothing they (or anyone else) can do about it.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 11, 2023, 08:47:44 AMSimilarly, for example, I have to acknowledge the fact that Max's child is no longer a boy but a girl because of what was depicted in Fury Road. How to explain the discrepancy? Maybe future writers can include in the canon that Max became delusional in the first movie such that he thought all along that he had a boy when it was actually a girl.

Your choice of Mad Max is interesting because the series is explicitly presented as unreliable-narrator folklore by George Miller; discrepancies and inconsistencies are specifically baked into the setting, on purpose.

You can ignore or support it, but there are repercussions. If most people don't like the way the franchise is being developed, then they'll turn away. When that happens, the franchise dies, and the owners can have it remained buried indefinitely.

Of course, your view doesn't have to be authoritative or official, as it's all just in your head. Even your claim that your view trumps what is official is also just in your head.

But when fans talk about canon, they're not talking about what's in each person's head because that's irrelevant. The very definition of the term, as you explained to you earlier, is what's widely considered to be official and authoritative, and the only ones who can state what's official and authoritative are the ones who own it. Your view stays in your head or whoever fans will follow and support you.

I know what "canon" means lol, I've probably been arguing about it since before you were born.

The point is that what's in my head, my head-canon, is absolutely more important than what some company says is canon. "What fans talk about" is meaningless, official canon is not a useful concept for fans or consumers. Fans (including you!) are empowered to decide for themselves what they personally want to accept as canon, independent of any "official" claims.
Even if you said "I am choosing to follow the official canon", that is a personal choice you are making, independent of the IP owners. If that's what brings you the most enjoyment then great! Keep doing it! But at the end of the day that personal choice is still head-canon (even if it aligns with the official canon). No one is forcing you, the consumer, to follow the official canon, you are choosing to.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 12, 2023, 12:04:27 AMFinally, I don't remember seeing what you said in the first three Mad Max movies. What I do remember is that he patterned the story after literary works inspired by myths, like Moby-Dick. Hence, characters with names like Toe Cutter and Starbuck.

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/23984150/furiosa-mad-max-timeline-trailer-continuity

Quote from: Still Collating... on Dec 11, 2023, 11:50:05 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 11, 2023, 10:54:50 PM

Quote from: Wweyland on Dec 11, 2023, 10:52:47 PM

Quote from: Nukiemorph on Dec 11, 2023, 09:36:55 PM(The girl in the Fury Road flashbacks isn't supposed to be his kid. It's a child he failed to save in a prequel comic that nobody read.)

I think I read it, but it was so forgettable. There was also something related to it in the Mad Max game.

The mad max game was awesome.

Speaking of games, Aliens: Dark Descent is a videogame! Anyone have any tips for dealing with the Queen you find down in the mines?

Tips? Focus fire on the Queen. Your best bet always is to kill her before she gets to you, cause when she does, it's game over very quickly. It would be good for you to have at least one new weapon. A flamer is good for making and arc of flame (drag and drop to make a wall of fire) so that you're protected against the huggers. A sniper rifle does great damage. Grenades are a must to stun the Queen and interrupt her charge. Before attacking, heal and have full command points at the ready. Use adrenalin when you can and use the "tactical analysis" option (costs you 1 tool for instant 2 command point regen). have one sentry pointed the way you came, behind you, and at least one if not 2 pointed at the door before you enter and meet the Queen. Once the cinematic is done, you can go back, opening the door and giving your turrets a clear line of fire. If you know how to turn your sentries that is.

I have 1 flamethrower and that's my only special weapon, and I have 1 sentry gun that I don't know how to turn around lol

The Queens die surprisingly fast. I just shoot them in the face with grenades and focus fire.

Quote from: Wweyland on Dec 12, 2023, 01:48:31 PMThe Queens die surprisingly fast. I just shoot them in the face with grenades and focus fire.

Yeah they're actually not too hard to kill especially on nightmare

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 12, 2023, 01:47:14 AMI know what "canon" means lol, I've probably been arguing about it since before you were born.

The point is that what's in my head, my head-canon, is absolutely more important than what some company says is canon. "What fans talk about" is meaningless, official canon is not a useful concept for fans or consumers. Fans (including you!) are empowered to decide for themselves what they personally want to accept as canon, independent of any "official" claims.
Even if you said "I am choosing to follow the official canon", that is a personal choice you are making, independent of the IP owners. If that's what brings you the most enjoyment then great! Keep doing it! But at the end of the day that personal choice is still head-canon (even if it aligns with the official canon). No one is forcing you, the consumer, to follow the official canon, you are choosing to.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 12, 2023, 12:04:27 AMFinally, I don't remember seeing what you said in the first three Mad Max movies. What I do remember is that he patterned the story after literary works inspired by myths, like Moby-Dick. Hence, characters with names like Toe Cutter and Starbuck.

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/23984150/furiosa-mad-max-timeline-trailer-continuity

"Head-canon" makes no sense because you're authorizing you're own views in your mind. In addition, the only one who thinks that your views trump those of others is you. For example, I can come up with my own "head-canon" and imagine that my views are better than those of the company and yours. Put simply, it amounts to fantasizing.

Also, "official canon" is redundant because the definition of "canon" is something widely considered official or authoritative.

You're confusing opinion with what's canonical. The first refers to what you think while the second refers to what's official. They're not the same.

Canon doesn't refer to what's widely accepted but what's widely considered as official or authoritative. That means you can choose to not accept the alternate timeline in Fury, for example, or what takes place in the Dark Descent game, but your choice doesn't make something official unofficial. And neither does your opinion that what you choose is canonical becomes so. Apparently, you didn't know the meaning of the term from the beginning.

Finally, the source you gave doesn't support your argument. Instead, it explains that what takes place in Fury can't be reconciled with the first three movies because it involves "an alternate timeline." BTW, that's canon, too, because the movie was approved by those who own the IP.

The implication, then, is that in order to deal with retconning, one has to settle for parallel universes, etc. It's like a deus ex machina.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 12:52:26 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 12, 2023, 01:47:14 AMI know what "canon" means lol, I've probably been arguing about it since before you were born.

The point is that what's in my head, my head-canon, is absolutely more important than what some company says is canon. "What fans talk about" is meaningless, official canon is not a useful concept for fans or consumers. Fans (including you!) are empowered to decide for themselves what they personally want to accept as canon, independent of any "official" claims.
Even if you said "I am choosing to follow the official canon", that is a personal choice you are making, independent of the IP owners. If that's what brings you the most enjoyment then great! Keep doing it! But at the end of the day that personal choice is still head-canon (even if it aligns with the official canon). No one is forcing you, the consumer, to follow the official canon, you are choosing to.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 12, 2023, 12:04:27 AMFinally, I don't remember seeing what you said in the first three Mad Max movies. What I do remember is that he patterned the story after literary works inspired by myths, like Moby-Dick. Hence, characters with names like Toe Cutter and Starbuck.

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/23984150/furiosa-mad-max-timeline-trailer-continuity

"Head-canon" makes no sense because you're authorizing you're own views in your mind. In addition, the only one who thinks that your views trump those of others is you. For example, I can come up with my own "head-canon" and imagine that my views are better than those of the company and yours. Put simply, it amounts to fantasizing.

Also, "official canon" is redundant because the definition of "canon" is something widely considered official or authoritative.

You're confusing opinion with what's canonical. The first refers to what you think while the second refers to what's official. They're not the same.

Canon doesn't refer to what's widely accepted but what's widely considered as official or authoritative. That means you can choose to not accept the alternate timeline in Fury, for example, or what takes place in the Dark Descent game, but your choice doesn't make something official unofficial. And neither does your opinion that what you choose is canonical becomes so. Apparently, you didn't know the meaning of the term from the beginning.

Finally, the source you gave doesn't support your argument. Instead, it explains that what takes place in Fury can't be reconciled with the first three movies because it involves "an alternate timeline." BTW, that's canon, too, because the movie was approved by those who own the IP.

The implication, then, is that in order to deal with retconning, one has to settle for parallel universes, etc. It's like a deus ex machina.

You are very clearly not grasping what I'm saying lol

What is officially canon according to the IP holders *doesn't matter*. My opinion, my head canon, is absolutely more important to me than anything they have to say. My head canon does not have to be "official" and it absolutely is my opinion, and it trumps the "official" canon for me because, again, the official canon *doesn't matter*. It serves no purpose to the consumer. There is no "truth", it's all fiction.

Also the concept of "canon", biblical canon, absolutely was "that which is widely accepted as true". That's the origin of the concept.

But it doesn't matter, because what I choose to believe is more important for me than anything anyone else could possibly say.
And again, you choosing to follow "the official canon" is a personal choice, just like what I choose to believe. The official canon exists independent of you or me, but you are personally choosing to follow it. You are not obligated to do so.

You call it "fantasizing", I call it freedom of choice and maximizing my enjoyment of a franchise I like - and there is absolutely nothing the IP holders or you or anyone else can do to derail that. It's already fantasy - it's fiction, none of this stuff actually exists! If it became canon that Jones was actually Ripley's sister, and I chose to reject that, what, exactly, can you to do about it? Are you going to come take my Aliens toys away? Declare that I'm not a "true fan"? Say that I'm "wrong" in how I choose to enjoy a franchise? Tell me, what can you do?

I know a guy who believes with all his heart that Bishop put the egg on the Sulaco from Alien3. Any evidence I provide to the contrary, he does not care. He loves his theory, and it is what brings him maximum enjoyment out of the franchise. It is his head-canon.
Who am I to take that away from him, to tell him he's wrong and that he isn't allowed to enjoy a piece of fiction the way he wants to?

And yes, my Nad Max link supports what I'm saying - George Miller doesn't pay attention to the logic or timeline of his Mad Max movies because *it doesn't matter*. They're mythic tales and continuity isn't important. Mad Max might not even be a single person, he could just be a folklore legend that people assign the name to. You saw the phrase "alternate timeline" and fixated on it, without reading the rest of the article. Nowhere has George Miller ever said it's an alternate timeline.

Quite the opposite, in fact:

https://screenrant.com/mad-max-fury-road-movie-sequel-reboot-continuity-explained/

https://www.indiewire.com/news/general-news/listen-george-miller-talks-mad-max-continuity-practical-effects-and-more-in-1-hour-of-fury-road-interviews-272466/

If you choose to rationalize it as "alternate timelines", if that's what brings you the most enjoyment out of the franchise, then guess what? That's your head-canon.

Canon and continuity aren't synonyms - there is a defined biblical "canon" by the Catholic Church and the Bible is littered with continuity problems. Hell, even the Alien franchise has continuity problems, even within the things officially considered "canon".
The Warhammer 40K universe is chock full of continuity problems (some of it is even intentional!). The official line is "everything is canon, not everything is true." And Games Workshop actively encourages players to incorporate their own head-canon, even if it contradicts or overrides "official" media.

Shit, has Disney/Fox even said Aliens Dark Descent is actually officially "canon"? Maybe that's part of your head-canon, too...

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 13, 2023, 01:36:54 AMYou are very clearly not grasping what I'm saying lol

What is officially canon according to the IP holders *doesn't matter*. My opinion, my head canon, is absolutely more important to me than anything they have to say. My head canon does not have to be "official" and it absolutely is my opinion, and it trumps the "official" canon for me because, again, the official canon *doesn't matter*. It serves no purpose to the consumer. There is no "truth", it's all fiction.

Also the concept of "canon", biblical canon, absolutely was "that which is widely accepted as true". That's the origin of the concept.

But it doesn't matter, because what I choose to believe is more important for me than anything anyone else could possibly say.
And again, you choosing to follow "the official canon" is a personal choice, just like what I choose to believe. The official canon exists independent of you or me, but you are personally choosing to follow it. You are not obligated to do so.

You call it "fantasizing", I call it freedom of choice and maximizing my enjoyment of a franchise I like - and there is absolutely nothing the IP holders or you or anyone else can do to derail that. It's already fantasy - it's fiction, none of this stuff actually exists! If it became canon that Jones was actually Ripley's sister, and I chose to reject that, what, exactly, can you to do about it? Are you going to come take my Aliens toys away? Declare that I'm not a "true fan"? Say that I'm "wrong" in how I choose to enjoy a franchise? Tell me, what can you do?

I know a guy who believes with all his heart that Bishop put the egg on the Sulaco from Alien3. Any evidence I provide to the contrary, he does not care. He loves his theory, and it is what brings him maximum enjoyment out of the franchise. It is his head-canon.
Who am I to take that away from him, to tell him he's wrong and that he isn't allowed to enjoy a piece of fiction the way he wants to?

And yes, my Nad Max link supports what I'm saying - George Miller doesn't pay attention to the logic or timeline of his Mad Max movies because *it doesn't matter*. They're mythic tales and continuity isn't important. Mad Max might not even be a single person, he could just be a folklore legend that people assign the name to. You saw the phrase "alternate timeline" and fixated on it, without reading the rest of the article. Nowhere has George Miller ever said it's an alternate timeline.

Quite the opposite, in fact:

https://screenrant.com/mad-max-fury-road-movie-sequel-reboot-continuity-explained/

https://www.indiewire.com/news/general-news/listen-george-miller-talks-mad-max-continuity-practical-effects-and-more-in-1-hour-of-fury-road-interviews-272466/

If you choose to rationalize it as "alternate timelines", if that's what brings you the most enjoyment out of the franchise, then guess what? That's your head-canon.

Canon and continuity aren't synonyms - there is a defined biblical "canon" by the Catholic Church and the Bible is littered with continuity problems. Hell, even the Alien franchise has continuity problems, even within the things officially considered "canon".
The Warhammer 40K universe is chock full of continuity problems (some of it is even intentional!). The official line is "everything is canon, not everything is true." And Games Workshop actively encourages players to incorporate their own head-canon, even if it contradicts or overrides "official" media.

Shit, has Disney/Fox even said Aliens Dark Descent is actually officially "canon"? Maybe that's part of your head-canon, too...

You are very clearly not grasping the meaning of "canon":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)

QuoteThe canon of a work of fiction is "the body of works taking place in a particular fictional world that are widely considered to be official or authoritative; [especially] those created by the original author or developer of the world".[2] Canon is contrasted with, or used as the basis for, works of fan fiction and other derivative works.[3]

What you have in your mind is not widely considered, let alone official or authoritative.

Next, there's no such thing as a "head-canon," and for the same reason. That means even the idea of a "head-canon" is part of your imagination, and nothing more.

The fact that you admit that what you imagine isn't official means it's not canon, head- or otherwise. Put simply, you're imagining another timeline, and nothing more.

Next, the definition of "canon" doesn't point out that it should be accepted. Rather, it's considered as official. That means you can argue all you want that you don't accept what's shown, but it remains official and what you think simply part of your imagination.

Third, since you can imagine anything you want and no one can stop you, then nothing trumps you. The problem is that others can say the same thing. Meanwhile, whatever fuels your imagination turn out to be the same works allowed by franchise holders; the only exception is fan fiction, where creators can even contradict each other.

That's why what you keep claiming doesn't matter you keep talking about in this discussion.

Even your example concerning the Bible works against you. The books that make up the Bible were selected and approved by various councils across centuries. They did not spring from each person's imagination which just happened to coincide with each other. You're obviously an ignoramus concerning this topic.

Your example about Aliens and the eggs also don't help because that's simply one person's opinion vs. another. Neither is canon until, for example, the franchise holders approve a work that explains how those eggs got on the ship.

The link you gave doesn't support your argument. You insist that that Miller used "unreliable[-]narrator folklore" but according to some sources there are production notes when the three movies were being made showing that they followed a chronology, and even anyone who saw the three movies can see the same. Meanwhile, what the source you gave doesn't support your point but instead excuses discrepancies by arguing that the new movie takes place in an alternative timeline. That means not only does your source not support your claim it's possible that you probably didn't even read it carefully.

Finally, the franchise holders don't have to declare something as canon. They just have to authorize its release or accept any licensing requests, and that includes this video game.

---

I'll make this simpler and at the same time remain on-topic:

Let's say you want to play Aliens: Dark Descent but find out that it mostly goes against your timeline of the Alien storyline, and you argue that the game needs major revisions because of that. The game developers disagree.

So, you can choose to revise the game yourself and release it unofficially, obtain a license from the IP holders to develop and release a new game that follows your timeline, or close your eyes and just imagine a game following your timeline.

The first and second options will cost you money, if not a lot, and if something goes wrong legally with the first option, then you can get into trouble. The third option is free, and in your mind, you can even find comfort in the fact that the IP holders can't stop you, and because of that you've trumped them. But why would they care? They don't earn anything from your imagination.

Given that, can you argue that the canon is inconsequential? Yes, but only if you have a lot of money to invest or waste to make a new, licensed game or receive legal permission to revise a present one, or you don't ultimately care what IP holders do. For the latter, does it matter if you're merely a consumer? Actually, yes, because you only live to consume, and what you're consuming--this game--you don't want. That means you have to be a creator, too, but one creating for an imaginary audience. In short, you have to fantasize that you own a franchise that you're developing and playing a game made by your company and released to gamers who, because they have the same beliefs as you, will adore you so much that you'll end up telling them, "You like me. You really like me!"

In which case, fire away, fantasist, but you should probably do so in a new thread.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMWhat you have in your mind is not widely considered, let alone official or authoritative.

I never said that it was, nor does that matter.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMNext, there's no such thing as a "head-canon," and for the same reason. That means even the idea of a "head-canon" is part of your imagination, and nothing more.

Just because you're unfamiliar with a concept doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/headcanon/

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/headcanon

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=headcanon

https://fanlore.org/wiki/Headcanon

https://www.oed.com/dictionary/headcanon_n?tl=true

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/headcanon

Hell, it's even been brought up on these very forums:
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=62006.msg2378560#msg2378560

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMThe fact that you admit that what you imagine isn't official means it's not canon, head- or otherwise. Put simply, you're imagining another timeline, and nothing more.

This has nothing to do with "timelines" lol.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMNext, the definition of "canon" doesn't point out that it should be accepted. Rather, it's considered as official. That means you can argue all you want that you don't accept what's shown, but it remains official and what you think simply part of your imagination.

And the part you're not grasping is that "what is official" doesn't matter.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMEven your example concerning the Bible works against you. The books that make up the Bible were selected and approved by various councils across centuries. They did not spring from each person's imagination which just happened to coincide with each other. You're obviously an ignoramus concerning this topic.

The idea of biblical canon is still what groups of people choose to believe, it doesn't matter how long it took them to reach that conclusion.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMThe link you gave doesn't support your argument. You insist that that Miller used "unreliable[-]narrator folklore" but according to some sources there are production notes when the three movies were being made showing that they followed a chronology, and even anyone who saw the three movies can see the same. Meanwhile, what the source you gave doesn't support your point but instead excuses discrepancies by arguing that the new movie takes place in an alternative timeline. That means not only does your source not support your claim it's possible that you probably didn't even read it carefully.

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/23984150/furiosa-mad-max-timeline-trailer-continuity

QuoteBut if you're trying to square that math with either the events of the original Mad Max trilogy or Fury Road, let me offer some helpful advice: don't. It probably doesn't make sense. In fact, the comics books that have come out since Fury Road have been trying to fit its timeline back into the original trilogy for years, and never gotten close to succeeding.

And you know what? That's OK.

Mad Max director, writer, and creator George Miller, in his infinite wisdom, rightly decided with the release of Fury Road that maybe Max is an idea larger than petty grievances like canon and continuity. Max is a myth and a legend, and as Miller himself has supposedly said, he works best as a campfire legend. And Furiosa is no different. The trailer says as much in its first few seconds. This is her Odyssey. She's destined to become a myth, and myths are too important to worry about whether or not the details line up.

https://screenrant.com/mad-max-fury-road-movie-sequel-reboot-continuity-explained/

QuoteThe Mad Max franchise has always upheld a very loose continuity, with few recurring elements aside from the title character, the Wasteland setting, and rebellion-themed narratives. In an interview with Den of Geek, Miller offered his views on the continuity debate:

    "they're not really connected in any very strict way. They're another episode in a saga of a character who is pretty archetypal: the wanderer in the wasteland, basically searching for meaning. This is someone we see in the classic westerns, in samurai stories. You can't really put a chronology [of the Mad Max films] together. They were never conceived that way. After I made the first one I had no intention to make a second, the second was ultimately an attempt to do the things I couldn't in the first one and so on. They were all standalone films in many, many ways."

When asked whether this was akin to folklore, Miller replied, "Precisely."

https://www.indiewire.com/news/general-news/listen-george-miller-talks-mad-max-continuity-practical-effects-and-more-in-1-hour-of-fury-road-interviews-272466/

QuoteMeanwhile, also had an extensive talk with Awards Chatter, and he admits that 'Fury Road' has no real, solid connection to the preceding films.

"There's no real continuity, just as there wasn't between the first three," Miller said.

I'm, uh, I'm not sure you read the links particularly well. Do you have any quotes from Miller about things being alternate timelines? I kind of doubt it.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMFinally, the franchise holders don't have to declare something as canon. They just have to authorize its release or accept any licensing requests, and that includes this video game.

That isn't how "canon" works, considering license holders can release "non canon" things, or declare things to be "non canon" after the fact. "Merely releasing something" is not a good enough standard, and you don't have any quotes from the license-holders to back up your claim about what is canon and what isn't.

By that logic, the novelization of 'Alien Covenant' (the one that has David outright say he didn't create the Alien) is simultaneously canon alongside the movie's explanation. Likewise, the end of 'Aliens' shows Ripley and company getting into one type of cryotube, while the beginning of 'Alien3' shows them using a completely different one.

Hell, there's even a recent example (https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Aliens:_Bishop#Goofs) - the (canon) novel "Aliens: Bishop" provides one death for Michael Bishop, while the (canon) sourcebook "The Weyland Yutani Project" provides a totally different one.

If we don't have any statements that things aren't canon, then by that logic the William Gibson Alien3 novelization and audio drama are canon - nowhere in the product descriptions is it stated that they're "alternate timelines", merely that they're from "an unproduced screenplay". Similarly, Disney/FOX has never publicly said that the DH Press novels, or the AvP movies, or the old Dark Horse comics, are "non-canon". By your standard, the fact that they were released with a copyright stamp on them means they're officially canon.

Canon and continuity aren't synonyms, but such discrepancies present audiences with some choices they have to make, be it to disregard certain sources, or come up with explanations to address those discrepancies. But those explanations or decisions are, themselves, head-canon.

The license-holders have clarified to writers and creators what is and isn't "canon", which illustrates my point: "canon" is not a useful concept for the consumer, and we wouldn't even know what it is if the creative talent didn't opt to share what they've been told with us.

---

QuoteLet's say you want to play Aliens: Dark Descent but find out that it mostly goes against your timeline of the Alien storyline, and you argue that the game needs major revisions because of that. The game developers disagree.

So, you can choose to revise the game yourself and release it unofficially, obtain a license from the IP holders to develop and release a new game that follows your timeline, or close your eyes and just imagine a game following your timeline.

The first and second options will cost you money, if not a lot, and if something goes wrong legally with the first option, then you can get into trouble.

There's multiple problems with this:
1. "the developers disagree" is irrelevant, considering that by your own standard, they are not the license holders and do not make the decisions about what is or isn't "officially canon"
2. If I have enough money to throw at the problem, I could conceivably get licensed permission from the IP holders and create contradictory materials and provide no explanation for why things don't line up. As demonstrated, any explanations for those contradictions provided by the audience are, themselves, head-canon.

QuoteFor the latter, does it matter if you're merely a consumer? Actually, yes, because you only live to consume, and what you're consuming--this game--you don't want. That means you have to be a creator, too, but one creating for an imaginary audience. In short, you have to fantasize that you own a franchise that you're developing and playing a game made by your company and released to gamers who, because they have the same beliefs as you, will adore you so much that you'll end up telling them, "You like me. You really like me!"

No, my explanations or conclusions only need to satisfy one person (me). I don't need approval from anyone else, and my views trump anything anyone could possibly say to me.
Head-canon addresses your "consumer/creator" conundrum by allowing the consumer to be a creator, even if they are only doing so for themselves. And they're doing so in a way that no one can overrule or take away from  them, regardless of what is officially "canon" or not.

That's the point you're not grasping.

It's clear we'll never see eye-to-eye on this, and that's fine (it's less of a "we disagree with each other" thing and more of a "you do not grasp the fundamental concepts" thing), but I'll agree with one thing - it's all very off-topic and we've let it go on long enough.

@Local Trouble this shit is right up your alley.

@Corporal Hicks you'll probably love it too

Also I just figured out how the @ ping system work!

@Xenomrph You bet!

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 13, 2023, 05:38:38 PM@Local Trouble this shit is right up your alley.

@Corporal Hicks you'll probably love it too

Also I just figured out how the @ ping system work!

He'll probably ignore you soon.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 13, 2023, 06:09:32 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 13, 2023, 05:38:38 PM@Local Trouble this shit is right up your alley.

@Corporal Hicks you'll probably love it too

Also I just figured out how the @ ping system work!

He'll probably ignore you soon.

Probably for the best.

Three missions to go for me. It's getting much easier as I have high-level marines and know what to do.

I still need to take another crack at killing the Queen in the mines.

How do you change a sentry gun's orientation? I'm playing on Xbox.

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 13, 2023, 05:04:37 AM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMWhat you have in your mind is not widely considered, let alone official or authoritative.

I never said that it was, nor does that matter.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMNext, there's no such thing as a "head-canon," and for the same reason. That means even the idea of a "head-canon" is part of your imagination, and nothing more.

Just because you're unfamiliar with a concept doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/headcanon/

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/headcanon

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=headcanon

https://fanlore.org/wiki/Headcanon

https://www.oed.com/dictionary/headcanon_n?tl=true

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/headcanon

Hell, it's even been brought up on these very forums:
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=62006.msg2378560#msg2378560

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMThe fact that you admit that what you imagine isn't official means it's not canon, head- or otherwise. Put simply, you're imagining another timeline, and nothing more.

This has nothing to do with "timelines" lol.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMNext, the definition of "canon" doesn't point out that it should be accepted. Rather, it's considered as official. That means you can argue all you want that you don't accept what's shown, but it remains official and what you think simply part of your imagination.

And the part you're not grasping is that "what is official" doesn't matter.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMEven your example concerning the Bible works against you. The books that make up the Bible were selected and approved by various councils across centuries. They did not spring from each person's imagination which just happened to coincide with each other. You're obviously an ignoramus concerning this topic.

The idea of biblical canon is still what groups of people choose to believe, it doesn't matter how long it took them to reach that conclusion.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMThe link you gave doesn't support your argument. You insist that that Miller used "unreliable[-]narrator folklore" but according to some sources there are production notes when the three movies were being made showing that they followed a chronology, and even anyone who saw the three movies can see the same. Meanwhile, what the source you gave doesn't support your point but instead excuses discrepancies by arguing that the new movie takes place in an alternative timeline. That means not only does your source not support your claim it's possible that you probably didn't even read it carefully.

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/23984150/furiosa-mad-max-timeline-trailer-continuity

QuoteBut if you're trying to square that math with either the events of the original Mad Max trilogy or Fury Road, let me offer some helpful advice: don't. It probably doesn't make sense. In fact, the comics books that have come out since Fury Road have been trying to fit its timeline back into the original trilogy for years, and never gotten close to succeeding.

And you know what? That's OK.

Mad Max director, writer, and creator George Miller, in his infinite wisdom, rightly decided with the release of Fury Road that maybe Max is an idea larger than petty grievances like canon and continuity. Max is a myth and a legend, and as Miller himself has supposedly said, he works best as a campfire legend. And Furiosa is no different. The trailer says as much in its first few seconds. This is her Odyssey. She's destined to become a myth, and myths are too important to worry about whether or not the details line up.

https://screenrant.com/mad-max-fury-road-movie-sequel-reboot-continuity-explained/

QuoteThe Mad Max franchise has always upheld a very loose continuity, with few recurring elements aside from the title character, the Wasteland setting, and rebellion-themed narratives. In an interview with Den of Geek, Miller offered his views on the continuity debate:

    "they're not really connected in any very strict way. They're another episode in a saga of a character who is pretty archetypal: the wanderer in the wasteland, basically searching for meaning. This is someone we see in the classic westerns, in samurai stories. You can't really put a chronology [of the Mad Max films] together. They were never conceived that way. After I made the first one I had no intention to make a second, the second was ultimately an attempt to do the things I couldn't in the first one and so on. They were all standalone films in many, many ways."

When asked whether this was akin to folklore, Miller replied, "Precisely."

https://www.indiewire.com/news/general-news/listen-george-miller-talks-mad-max-continuity-practical-effects-and-more-in-1-hour-of-fury-road-interviews-272466/

QuoteMeanwhile, also had an extensive talk with Awards Chatter, and he admits that 'Fury Road' has no real, solid connection to the preceding films.

"There's no real continuity, just as there wasn't between the first three," Miller said.

I'm, uh, I'm not sure you read the links particularly well. Do you have any quotes from Miller about things being alternate timelines? I kind of doubt it.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 13, 2023, 04:12:15 AMFinally, the franchise holders don't have to declare something as canon. They just have to authorize its release or accept any licensing requests, and that includes this video game.

That isn't how "canon" works, considering license holders can release "non canon" things, or declare things to be "non canon" after the fact. "Merely releasing something" is not a good enough standard, and you don't have any quotes from the license-holders to back up your claim about what is canon and what isn't.

By that logic, the novelization of 'Alien Covenant' (the one that has David outright say he didn't create the Alien) is simultaneously canon alongside the movie's explanation. Likewise, the end of 'Aliens' shows Ripley and company getting into one type of cryotube, while the beginning of 'Alien3' shows them using a completely different one.

Hell, there's even a recent example (https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Aliens:_Bishop#Goofs) - the (canon) novel "Aliens: Bishop" provides one death for Michael Bishop, while the (canon) sourcebook "The Weyland Yutani Project" provides a totally different one.

If we don't have any statements that things aren't canon, then by that logic the William Gibson Alien3 novelization and audio drama are canon - nowhere in the product descriptions is it stated that they're "alternate timelines", merely that they're from "an unproduced screenplay". Similarly, Disney/FOX has never publicly said that the DH Press novels, or the AvP movies, or the old Dark Horse comics, are "non-canon". By your standard, the fact that they were released with a copyright stamp on them means they're officially canon.

Canon and continuity aren't synonyms, but such discrepancies present audiences with some choices they have to make, be it to disregard certain sources, or come up with explanations to address those discrepancies. But those explanations or decisions are, themselves, head-canon.

The license-holders have clarified to writers and creators what is and isn't "canon", which illustrates my point: "canon" is not a useful concept for the consumer, and we wouldn't even know what it is if the creative talent didn't opt to share what they've been told with us.

---

QuoteLet's say you want to play Aliens: Dark Descent but find out that it mostly goes against your timeline of the Alien storyline, and you argue that the game needs major revisions because of that. The game developers disagree.

So, you can choose to revise the game yourself and release it unofficially, obtain a license from the IP holders to develop and release a new game that follows your timeline, or close your eyes and just imagine a game following your timeline.

The first and second options will cost you money, if not a lot, and if something goes wrong legally with the first option, then you can get into trouble.

There's multiple problems with this:
1. "the developers disagree" is irrelevant, considering that by your own standard, they are not the license holders and do not make the decisions about what is or isn't "officially canon"
2. If I have enough money to throw at the problem, I could conceivably get licensed permission from the IP holders and create contradictory materials and provide no explanation for why things don't line up. As demonstrated, any explanations for those contradictions provided by the audience are, themselves, head-canon.

QuoteFor the latter, does it matter if you're merely a consumer? Actually, yes, because you only live to consume, and what you're consuming--this game--you don't want. That means you have to be a creator, too, but one creating for an imaginary audience. In short, you have to fantasize that you own a franchise that you're developing and playing a game made by your company and released to gamers who, because they have the same beliefs as you, will adore you so much that you'll end up telling them, "You like me. You really like me!"

No, my explanations or conclusions only need to satisfy one person (me). I don't need approval from anyone else, and my views trump anything anyone could possibly say to me.
Head-canon addresses your "consumer/creator" conundrum by allowing the consumer to be a creator, even if they are only doing so for themselves. And they're doing so in a way that no one can overrule or take away from  them, regardless of what is officially "canon" or not.

That's the point you're not grasping.

It's clear we'll never see eye-to-eye on this, and that's fine (it's less of a "we disagree with each other" thing and more of a "you do not grasp the fundamental concepts" thing), but I'll agree with one thing - it's all very off-topic and we've let it go on long enough.

I'm not saying you said that. What I'm saying is that you didn't know that.

The sources that you shared proves my point. Here's a quote from the first one:

QuoteIn pop culture, the word canon refers to the aspects of a story or fictional "world" or "universe" that are considered to be "official"—meaning they have been confirmed within the story or in some other way (for example, an author or director might confirm something to be canon in an interview or in bonus material).


In contrast, headcanon is simply what a fan believes (or wants) to be true about a story. It can involve backstory, what happens after the story ends, or any other aspect. Headcanon often involves shipping, which is the practice of romantically linking two characters who don't have any romantic interactions in the actual story.

The problem is that the first part is wrong: what's official is what's authorized by the IP holders, and it can even create discrepancies. The second is accurate: it's simply based on one's imagination.

Of course, it has to do with timelines. That's why the Fury source that you gave even referred to an alternate one to explain discrepancies.

I'm grasping it completely: because your "head-canon" is "simply what a fan believes (or wants) to be true about a story," then the canon won't matter. In which case, why are you still debating on something that shouldn't matter at all?

I wasn't referring to the length of time it took to select the books that made up the Bible but the fact that it involved groups and agreements, not some "head-canon" in individuals' minds that coincidentally were the same. In short, your own example went against you.

Your next three sourcs prove my point again because Miller is part of the franchise. The problem is that he claims that one can't put together a chronology of the first three movies, but from what I remember he and his crew released production notes from the time they made them showing that chronology. Here's one from one of the same outlets you cited:

https://screenrant.com/mad-max-movies-timeline-setting-explained-fury-road/

The first is said to have been set during the mid-1980s and caused by peak oil coupled with oil wars. The second is said to have taken place only a few years later, which is why what happened to Max's family is still fresh in his mind. And the third takes place almost two decades later, and after a nuclear war, as explained by the lost kids in the desert.

According to the same source, discrepancies started showing up with the comics, which stated that the nuclear war took place after that. Maybe the first one was tactical and the other global.

Finally, the fourth movie is said to have taken place decades later, which forces some to theorize that Max in the movie is actually someone like Feral Boy who has taken on Max's identity, or something like that. In any case, these show that discrepancies can be part of the canon and dealt with all sorts of re-imagined views, e.g., Max was simply dreaming all of it (like the way one can read the ending of movies like Once Upon a Time or see how TV shows like St. Elsewhere concludes). In any case, the purpose is to reboot the franchise for younger audiences who have never heard of or seen the first three movies.

First, you argue that "[t]his isn't about timelines" and now admit that Miller was talking about "alternate timelines," which shows that not only do you contract yourself you end up supporting my arguments again.

I never argued that canon and continuity are synonyms. What I argued is that canon is what's official, and that can include breaking continuity. Also, keep in mind that discrepancies don't mean that there was no continuity in the first place, which is Miller's mistake. Rather, it's an poor excuse to explain away discrepancies. Why? Because continuity is part of internal logic, and has to be maintained whether or not canon is involved.

That's why it's a useful concept to consumers, contrary to your claims. For example, what if Aliens: Dark Descent is supposed to be set almost two decades after the third movie, and then a 10-year-old Ripley shows up?

Unless I'm mistaken, the developers are license holders and are legally allowed to depict the Alien franchise in Dark Descent.

Finally, the fact that your explanations and conclusions need to satisfy you proves my point again. In contrast, the canon, as defined, refers to what's widely considered official and authoritative. The only way you can deal with this is that you own the franchise. It's likely that you do, but only in your imagination.

Spoiler

@Xenomrph

[close]

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 14, 2023, 02:09:22 AMI'm not saying

(https://i.imgur.com/oIXTMmY.jpeg)

The silenced sniper is invaluable. Having trouble with killing eggs silently though.

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 14, 2023, 02:41:24 AM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 14, 2023, 02:09:22 AMI'm not saying

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8q8PXoJwVk
https://i.imgur.com/oIXTMmY.jpeg

That's all you have left: taking only part of a point and then trolling with memes. And only because the evidence you gave went against you.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 15, 2023, 12:55:32 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 14, 2023, 02:41:24 AM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 14, 2023, 02:09:22 AMI'm not saying

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8q8PXoJwVk
https://i.imgur.com/oIXTMmY.jpeg

That's all you have left: taking only part of a point and then trolling with memes. And only because the evidence you gave went against you.

Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 14, 2023, 02:41:24 AM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 14, 2023, 02:09:22 AMI'm not saying

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8q8PXoJwVk
https://i.imgur.com/oIXTMmY.jpeg

Yeah what that guy said.

You didn't prove shit lmao. I replied with a meme because that's what your post warranted.
At best, you expressed an opinion. One I disagree with, and don't feel like engaging with.

Do you want to keep derailing the thread after both of us acknowledged it was off-topic? Just take the L and move on. People want to talk about the video game.

(https://s20.directupload.net/images/231215/bueb4xxu.jpg)

Quote from: kwisatz on Dec 15, 2023, 01:07:15 AMhttps://s20.directupload.net/images/231215/bueb4xxu.jpg

Doesn't seem to load properly on my end.

Edit— nevermind, there we go

Anyone know how big a difference the "infestation levels" make?
Should I take an unrested squad out versus waiting and fighting more Aliens?

Quote from: Wweyland on Dec 18, 2023, 11:20:50 AMAnyone know how big a difference the "infestation levels" make?
Should I take an unrested squad out versus waiting and fighting more Aliens?

iirc, means aliens are greater in number and more active, and send out more units than just drones

Does "Suppressing Fire" stack? Like if I have 2 Marines laying down fire in the same direction, do incoming hostile suffer more penalties? Or is it a waste to double it up?

Any way to make marines "conserve ammo"?
I have had cases when I needed a demolition charge, but the Marines have already shot their load.

Still haven't gotten round to playing this game. The last strategy "Alien" game that I played was AVP:Extinction.

It is a real-time tactics game (XCOM, Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines), rather than your traditional real time strategy game though.

Someone pointed out in another forum that the story isn't that strong mainly because it focuses more on being a turn-based tactical and strategic RPG (weapons development, etc., resources, labs and workshops in a base). I think it's because there's little character development even for most of the protagonists, unlike in games like those belonging to the Mass Effect series.

It's also starts with one alien, then followed by multiple facehuggers, with a functional base that's readily developed from a military ship that crashlands, etc.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 23, 2023, 01:30:25 AMSomeone pointed out in another forum that the story isn't that strong mainly because it focuses more on being a turn-based tactical and strategic RPG (weapons development, etc., resources, labs and workshops in a base). I think it's because there's little character development even for most of the protagonists, unlike in games like those belonging to the Mass Effect series.

It's also starts with one alien, then followed by multiple facehuggers, with a functional base that's readily developed from a military ship that crashlands, etc.

I've read this post 7 times and I cannot discern what your point is, especially the second paragraph.

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 23, 2023, 01:30:25 AMSomeone pointed out in another forum that the story isn't that strong mainly because it focuses more on being a turn-based tactical and strategic RPG (weapons development, etc., resources, labs and workshops in a base). I think it's because there's little character development even for most of the protagonists, unlike in games like those belonging to the Mass Effect series.

It's also starts with one alien, then followed by multiple facehuggers, with a functional base that's readily developed from a military ship that crashlands, etc.

Neither AVPE nor Dark Descent is turn based.

Quote from: Wweyland on Dec 21, 2023, 10:22:13 AMAny way to make marines "conserve ammo"?
I have had cases when I needed a demolition charge, but the Marines have already shot their load.

It's pretty sneaky, but near most areas where you need to demolish something, there is either a fallen colonist that can be searched for ammo or an ammo crate nearby.

Quote from: Still Collating... on Dec 23, 2023, 10:17:59 PM

Quote from: ralfy on Dec 23, 2023, 01:30:25 AMSomeone pointed out in another forum that the story isn't that strong mainly because it focuses more on being a turn-based tactical and strategic RPG (weapons development, etc., resources, labs and workshops in a base). I think it's because there's little character development even for most of the protagonists, unlike in games like those belonging to the Mass Effect series.

It's also starts with one alien, then followed by multiple facehuggers, with a functional base that's readily developed from a military ship that crashlands, etc.

Neither AVPE nor Dark Descent is turn based.

Quote from: Wweyland on Dec 21, 2023, 10:22:13 AMAny way to make marines "conserve ammo"?
I have had cases when I needed a demolition charge, but the Marines have already shot their load.

It's pretty sneaky, but near most areas where you need to demolish something, there is either a fallen colonist that can be searched for ammo or an ammo crate nearby.

Sorry about that. I was thinking of games like Wasteland 2.

What do you think of the rest of my points? I also noticed that the first mission is tedious: you need to find something, and you can't do anything with it because something else is missing, so you go to another location, and then the same thing happens again in that location, and so on.

I agree that some people find it tedious when things are laid out like that. Though fetch quest and moving the goal posts I believe are in most stories when it comes down to it. Alien Isolation had basically the same "problem", but I never find that annoying. It's realistic, life is full of convoluted fetch quests, I find that as just a framework, an excuse for something to happen along the way. What happens along the way are the fun parts.

The first mission is very memorable IMO. Honestly, all of them are to me. The Montero mission is the only that's annoying. The part at the end level where you don't have your tracker, and loose the lights?! Tense, frustrating, but in a good way. But that's just my perspective, I like Alien games kicking my a*s.   

Anyone else abuse the elevators for save points?

Quote from: Wweyland on Dec 26, 2023, 08:22:55 PMAnyone else abuse the elevators for save points?

Oh shit, I never thought to do that.

Quote from: Wweyland on Dec 26, 2023, 08:22:55 PMAnyone else abuse the elevators for save points?

I did  :D

I have managed to keep everyone alive with this "trick".
One marine did lose a limb though, but got a cool robotic replacement and returned to action :)

Well such a mission can be expensive, cost an arm and a leg... :laugh:  :laugh:

Seems it's just a cosmetic thing though, no harm done (despite time spent with the shrink).

Has anyone come across a way to get that specific injury on purpose?

Great moment: My squad was desperately trying to get to an elevator. The prompt came up and apparently an alien snatched my Sgt. Frost right at the door and I clicked the other floor as I realized he was taken. RIP lol.

Finally caved and picked this up, this style of game isnt usually my cup of tea.

Im on the dead hills mission and was killed off pretty quickly. On a console, the controls are not feeling very intuitive for me.

Really enjoying the story and authenticity here but not sure if I can hang with a game this difficult. May change to story mode and see how it goes.

Anyone name their Marines anything interesting? I recreated a few characters from Aliens Infestation, Fireteam Elite, AVP 2010, Alexa Woods, Miller "NatGeo" and Verheiden "Versus" from AVP 2004.

Quote from: 426Buddy on Jan 22, 2024, 11:59:35 AMFinally caved and picked this up, this style of game isnt usually my cup of tea.

Im on the dead hills mission and was killed off pretty quickly. On a console, the controls are not feeling very intuitive for me.

Really enjoying the story and authenticity here but not sure if I can hang with a game this difficult. May change to story mode and see how it goes.

Keep playing until you get the specializations for your marines, and don't leave missions until you are almost out of supplies/ammo.  The more you leave, the harder the game gets.  Specializations let you overcome various knockdowns, and take out sentries that alert other enemies. 

I enjoyed it.  I actually prefer it over FTE (itself which exceeded my expectations).  Not perfect, needs lots more polish, and hopefully a sequel (just like FTE) delivers a more capable product. 

It is much better than FTE, and the Aliens themselves are much more authentic than anything we have had in bloody ages, sure you can mow down dozens with the sentry turrets and other warfare implementations but at the same time one can destroy a squad.

I think FTE is meant to be more of a fun arcade-like shooter, with emphasis on gameplay over story. I enjoyed it a lot.
I think Dark descent may be more story driven.

I don't think either of them are particularly story driven.  Both to me have the early EU feel of darkhorse without much meat on the bones.  I think FTE is more fun to play, and Dark Descent is more immersive.   

Storywise, the best "recent" game has been Isolation.  It's just a shame about the gameplay. 

Get good.

Finished this with all the marines surviving. Good times. Still have a lot of achievements to unlock though.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jan 22, 2024, 10:38:19 PMGet good.

For most people this would be an option.

However I've never been great at video games despite having played them for 33 years or more. Even when I was young and could spend all the time in the world playing.

In the last decade I have only had a very small amount of time to dedicate to gaming, which exacerbates my lower than average abilities.

So playing something like this with a controller is feeling impossible almost. Ive gotten my squad killed maybe 7 to 10 times on the first mission already and i've only saved 1 survivor lol.

I was talking to Kimmy about Isolation actually, Dark Descent unlike it is genuinely difficult though.

Quote from: 426Buddy on Jan 23, 2024, 01:06:47 PM

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jan 22, 2024, 10:38:19 PMGet good.

In the last decade I have only had a very small amount of time to dedicate to gaming, which exacerbates my lower than average abilities.

I'm the same. I just stick anything new on the easiest difficulty, and go from there. If i like it enough to play again ill bump it up, but these days i just wanna breeze through things on a nice easy setting. All those souls-like games can go to hell. Except Nioh. That was split into levels which made it much more enjoyable

It took me 6 hours to master the patterns for the last level of the original Ninja Gaiden. It had unlimited continues. It was terrible. lol. Never again. I do play default, but gaming is usually limited. Dark Descent brought me back for a week. Otherwise I typically only play a bit with the kids.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 28, 2023, 10:48:45 AMHas anyone come across a way to get that specific injury on purpose?

Yep, load a new mission where you're outside. Pop the flair for the Dropships airstrike. Make your marine walk through it. It does tons of damage. Downs your marine in one or 2 strikes. Keep reloading the level until you get the number of injuries you want.

I wonder if someone has got a marine with all 4 prosthetics yet? If it's even possible.

Bumped damage and health for aliens up a bit for new game plus. Chugged along nicely until first queen encounter. I mistakenly didn't have command points when it started except 1. lol. It went badly.

Quote from: Still Collating... on Jan 24, 2024, 12:35:55 AMIf it's even possible.

Quoteif possible that is?.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jan 23, 2024, 01:20:42 PMI was talking to Kimmy about Isolation actually, Dark Descent unlike it is genuinely difficult though.

Get good at hiding?  The gameplay isn't difficult.  It is boring.  It's a coma inducing snoozefest.  For somebody that doesn't scare easy, just sitting in a certain place for minutes on end just doesn't do it for me.  There is no scare factor for me.  Just an annoyance one.  The legitimate best parts of the game are when the Alien(s) aren't even present.  Only then can you actually explore and enjoy the best homage to the original film in the EU.  From a sheer immersion standpoint, it is excellent.  Marred by its completely non frightening gameplay. 

Dark decent isn't much harder.  But it IS a better game to play. 

The only thing one needs to get good at for Isolation is keeping your eyes from closing as you fight sleepiness waiting for the alien to leave. 

Quote from: 426Buddy on Jan 23, 2024, 01:06:47 PM

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jan 22, 2024, 10:38:19 PMGet good.

For most people this would be an option.

However I've never been great at video games despite having played them for 33 years or more. Even when I was young and could spend all the time in the world playing.

In the last decade I have only had a very small amount of time to dedicate to gaming, which exacerbates my lower than average abilities.

So playing something like this with a controller is feeling impossible almost. Ive gotten my squad killed maybe 7 to 10 times on the first mission already and i've only saved 1 survivor lol.

I feel you, but the first squad mission was perhaps one of the most difficult ones.
You are still learning the mechanics, but the game throws hordes at you (including a Crusher).

I outright do not believe you only sat in place for minutes at a time as your strategy or perhaps you never played it on Hard. The behaviour of the Alien changes with difficulties, you can get away with hiding in a locker or under a desk repeatedly on normal, on hard you have to keep moving and use your tools as distractions or offensively if it sees you.

One of the best stealth videogames I have ever played, I have done the one shot, do not die once during the main campaign achievement in it; on Xbox 360 on Xbox One and PC- I know it like the back of my hand and know mechanically what you claim simply does not match the reality.

Dark Descent being more inconsistent makes the stealth in that more infuriating although it is still very rewarding.

Might want to throw an @Kimarhi in there to avoid any further confusion.

Fair enough.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jan 25, 2024, 04:15:00 PMI outright do not believe you only sat in place for minutes at a time as your strategy or perhaps you never played it on Hard. The behaviour of the Alien changes with difficulties, you can get away with hiding in a locker or under a desk repeatedly on normal, on hard you have to keep moving and use your tools as distractions or offensively if it sees you.

One of the best stealth videogames I have ever played, I have done the one shot, do not die once during the main campaign achievement in it; on Xbox 360 on Xbox One and PC- I know it like the back of my hand and know mechanically what you claim simply does not match the reality.

Dark Descent being more inconsistent makes the stealth in that more infuriating although it is still very rewarding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCkqpRnk1oU

It's boring af. 

My initial strat was just to walk backwards with the motion tracker out.  Which also was not a light the world on fire method of excitement.  I'm glad it did something for you, but I have about as much fun watching fresh paint dry. 

To me, it is a MASSIVELY overrated game and I'm glad there hasn't been a sequel I have been forced to play just because it was so good at capturing the feel of the original movie. 

Sounds like you never gave it a shot in the first place. If it is not for you, you do not have to make up stuff to justify that fact, I know someone else on this forum did the exact same thing (muh bugs) funnily enough.

No sequel, but it got ported to everything,  just because it is that good and optimised.

Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jan 25, 2024, 03:28:48 AM

Quote from: Still Collating... on Jan 24, 2024, 12:35:55 AMIf it's even possible.

Quoteif possible that is?.

Found a short on YouTube. It is possible to get all 4 prosthetics!

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jan 25, 2024, 11:28:04 PMSounds like you never gave it a shot in the first place. If it is not for you, you do not have to make up stuff to justify that fact, I know someone else on this forum did the exact same thing (muh bugs) funnily enough.

No sequel, but it got ported to everything,  just because it is that good and optimised.

I think if you look back, my stance on Isolation has been pretty much the same all the way back almost a DECADE ago when it was released.  It isn't Isolation itself that is the issue.  Its just that Isolation falls into that Outlast/Soma etc style game.  Which I never have, and never will like.  Your opinion that these are great mechanics and good games isn't going to work out any better to convince me than me telling you my opinion that they aren't and its a garbage way of playing.

My opinion on the subject is for a multitude of personal reasons.  Mainly being scary games aren't scary to me.  Especially after the first couple of encounters.  After I see how horror games work through the first couple of encounters it stops being scary.  Because Isolation has "randomized" encounters, it speed runs into non scariness.  So I'm stuck trying to hide, pause, or outmaneuver something that absolutely does nothing for me.  It doesn't raise the heart rate.  I don't get sweaty palms.  I don't get cold chills or nervousness.  I'm just sitting there.  Walking backwards.  Crouching behind something.  Or hiding under a table or a locker with something that I don't find scary at all.  So for a horror game for me to work it has to do other things well.  Isolation DOES capture the first movie vibe and feel incredibly well.  I've always said this.  But that's it for me.  I get more enjoyment just walking around in the universe than I do anytime the alien shows up. 

I also don't think it would actually work IN universe.  I don't think you could hide under a table in the Alien universe and the Alien not know you were there.  But that's just me. 

The difference between you and I is that I don't care that you like it.  I'm glad you did. 







   

 

 

I like stealth videogames, I like survival horror videogames and Isolation unlike the other ones you mentioned there, it is indeed both.

Because you can spend resources to drive away the Alien and it then adapts based on what ones you use (flare, noisemaker, pipe bomb, smoke bomb, flashbang, molotov), never mind the survivors and the Working Joes you can take out, use any of the six weapons which none of the other survival horror franchises you mention even include weapons in. 

In this way Alien Isolation has more in common with Resident Evil Biohazard and Village (but good), one persistent invincible antagonist and the other threats, puzzles and arsenal upgrades.

I only ever used stealth to work around enemies rarely to wait them out, because yes the idea of that I find pretty dull, I have never played it that way across multiple platforms- I never made that choice to. 

I am sorry if I have annoyed you, but I disagree not with you not liking it but with your premise itself, your categorization of Isolation.

Isolation doesn't remind me of RE7 at all.  Mainly because your dude isn't instakilled by an invincible killing machine everytime he stands up straight.  It doesn't have the same annoyance of being caught that Isolation does because you can legitimately stop the bosses when they are roaming from following you by unloading on them until they stop moving.  The Alien you can flamethrower to run away, just for him to pop out again sometimes seconds later.  There IS some overlap, but I feel it is more like the previous two games I mentioned vs either of the RE games.  You are definitely punished worse in Outlast or Soma for being caught than either of the FPS REs. 

RE8 isn't anything like RE7 and certainly nothing like Isolation.  It's a FPS action game.  It's literally RE4 as a FPS with an unkillable mold man as the main character.  He could just keep coming back if he was inserted into Isolation because the Alien couldn't perma kill him.  The guy glues himself back together.  Nowhere near the same "feel" of game.  Ripley isn't forearm blocking a 9' woman with scythe fingers in Isolation.  It isn't meant to be the same kind of game. 


Again, I don't have a problem with the game EXCEPT for the Alien encounters.  I've said this multiple times for years now.  The combat is somewhat awkward against other adversaries............but it fits because Ripley is not a soldier. 

This is all I'm saying about this, as I've said it over and over again here and other threads.  I'm glad you like the game's.  The bad cinematic animations (a minor gripe.....we could have games with NO cinematic animations like we've gotten recently) and the potential insta kill alien encounters just aren't my cup of tea and keep it from being a favorite title in the EU game library. 

Quote from: Still Collating... on Jan 26, 2024, 12:24:35 AM

Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jan 25, 2024, 03:28:48 AM

Quote from: Still Collating... on Jan 24, 2024, 12:35:55 AMIf it's even possible.

Quoteif possible that is?.

Found a short on YouTube. It is possible to get all 4 prosthetics!

Sorry, that was a deep cut, not an actual question.

The animations are fine, them being rendered at 30 FPS makes them look choppy and awful, because of the contrast with the gameplay itself being 60 FPS or above on anything but sixth generation level hardware.

Dark Descent meanwhile might have texture pop in on everything, but everything runs at high framerate, future proofed.

Just finished this and just wow...

This feels every bit as authentic to Aliens as Alien Isolation did to Alien.

It even makes stuff I used to be half and half on feel one hundred percent part of the fabric by proxy, like the subtle psychic stuff, and the Crusher and Praetorian- like it had me coming away forgetting they never actually featured in the films themselves because they just feel so natural.

Had me in a constant state of panic, but really enjoyed it, hope they get to do a sequel and expand upon the arsenal and perhaps make the ARC or APC not outright invulnerable this time- perhaps give the Runner (perhaps a Shotgun like acid puke) and Prowler (a more Sniper like acid spit) some ranged abilities to shake things up next time around.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jan 29, 2024, 04:36:29 PMThis feels every bit as authentic to Aliens as Alien Isolation did to Alien.

Yep. Exactly how I feel and I've said this before too!

I liked it.  I think that it captured the tension feeling that Aliens had.  There is no film quite like Aliens in that it feels like your under a screw slowly being tightened down, and this game captures that more often than not.

That said, I do think it suffered from the Aliens EU curse of not being serious enough.  I love the cheesiness of the EU, but I don't necessarily want psychic father and daughter communicating with Aliens in the main timeline or another variant of the jockeys, quasi alien unalive alive men etc

It's fine for the extended universe though. 

Aside from the Titans, I agree the rest you highlighted felt very extended universe to me, but in a fun way ultimately. I love in particular the way they tied in the cult coming about because of the destruction of the working class by the powers that be, that felt very believable.

Spoiler

The Marlow character also cliche as it is did a better version of Karl Bishop Weyland, from AVP 2010 that had a much more logical conclusion to it, as the necessary android.

"I'm not a droid!" -Bishop, Alien³
"I'm not a Synth!" -Pryce, Aliens Dark Descent, obvious parallel. They are unbelievably inhuman, but they are human.

[close]

https://www.artstation.com/xarden

Looks like the game was once known as Strike Force. I much prefer Dark Descent.

How many days did you have remaining at the end? I had just too many, something like 12.
Strike Force is cheesy.

I think I was down to the last day or something.  It was cutting it pretty close. 

My issue the first playthrough was not knowing everytime you RTB that you increased the game difficulty.  I had it maxed out like halfway through so each mission was getting super spicy. 

I cut it real close on my first playthrough. Like one or two days left. I had a week or two left on my second playthrough, my Hard run. I loved the clock mechanic. Just another level of tension.

Has there been any word on extra/additional content coming to DD?

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jan 29, 2024, 04:36:29 PMJust finished this and just wow...

This feels every bit as authentic to Aliens as Alien Isolation did to Alien.

It even makes stuff I used to be half and half on feel one hundred percent part of the fabric by proxy, like the subtle psychic stuff, and the Crusher and Praetorian- like it had me coming away forgetting they never actually featured in the films themselves because they just feel so natural.

Had me in a constant state of panic, but really enjoyed it, hope they get to do a sequel and expand upon the arsenal and perhaps make the ARC or APC not outright invulnerable this time- perhaps give the Runner (perhaps a Shotgun like acid puke) and Prowler (a more Sniper like acid spit) some ranged abilities to shake things up next time around.

I got it at launch and only finished a couple of weeks ago because it was stressing me out so much and I had to play in 20 minute chunks lmao. Hopefully the sequel get more nuts with the story and expands on all the engineer stuff, cause that was ace.

https://twitter.com/Republ33k/status/1754780091148624106

I was generally afraid of the death clock at first, but it turned out great (both with time remaining and as a way to build tension).

I finished my first campaign with one day remaining

The "No days remaining" ending was sort of underwhelming, would have expected a small cutscene or something.

There's one detail that I love about this game is when you check the motion trackers that you place down there is a chance that you see a cult being dragged away into a high and I think that's so cool and frightening. It makes this game more alive like alien isolation. When you go back to some places, there's some people or walking Joe's. Just wondering around at places you just went through.

The time of Alien Romulus would be good to release some DLC.

I really don't expect we'll see anything more from DD, unfortunately. As much as I'd love more.

A patch at least?

No playable Xenos? :(

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 03:07:13 PMNo playable Xenos? :(

They are saving that for Alien: Incubation, the sequel to Isolation where you hunt down a crew of seven. Jk :D

When I first played the game I was getting ready to extract making my way back to the APC, time was running out and I didn't know what would happen. Got ambushed waiting for an elevator and lost a guy. Three left. At the bottom got attacked again, lost another and another was injured maybe knocked out but either way I had to carry him. Ended up running out to the APC which gave me covering fire and escaped.

It was the most badass experience I think I've ever experienced when gaming and I game a lot. But I think the reason it was so special was because it was Aliens, a franchise that I adore and it felt so cinematic without it being scripted. Beautiful time.

Still haven't completed it because I switch games too much and not great at RTS but I do wish the game was FPS. There is something nice about you controlling a square though.

Alternative to the Xeno campaign - Darwin Era campaign. The Xeno-s semi-ignore your squad.

Quote from: Wweyland on Feb 07, 2024, 02:42:57 PMI was generally afraid of the death clock at first, but it turned out great (both with time remaining and as a way to build tension).

Is it like Majora's Mask?

Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 31, 2024, 09:03:37 PM

Quote from: Wweyland on Feb 07, 2024, 02:42:57 PMI was generally afraid of the death clock at first, but it turned out great (both with time remaining and as a way to build tension).

Is it like Majora's Mask?

Havent played that. It might be similar to something that XCom games had.

Any news?

Are we more likely to get a big Fireteam update? Or both are dead?

Fireteam is dead dead since they announced that they're working on another game (almost certainly another Alien game). Dark Descent hasn't gotten any new info. Was never meant to be a live service game. Would've loved some DLC or special game modes, but that doesn't seem likely now. Maybe an update fixing some bugs down the line, but most are fixed, so even that isn't as likely anymore.

Quote from: Still Collating... on Apr 14, 2024, 10:16:09 PMFireteam is dead dead since they announced that they're working on another game (almost certainly another Alien game). Dark Descent hasn't gotten any new info. Was never meant to be a live service game. Would've loved some DLC or special game modes, but that doesn't seem likely now. Maybe an update fixing some bugs down the line, but most are fixed, so even that isn't as likely anymore.

Can you provide evidence that the dev of fireteam are making another alien game?

And to think Predator Hunting Grouns is more alive than these 2 aliens that came after. I wish Dark Descent had gotten more stuff.

That's fine by me, Dark Descent and Isolation are easily the best videogames in either franchise, and we're lucky enough to have three more Alien titles in the works currently. 

Some from prior developers and one... an often requested sequel.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 15, 2024, 01:48:54 AMThat's fine by me, Dark Descent and Isolation are easily the best videogames in either franchise, and we're lucky enough to have three more Alien titles in the works currently. 

Some from prior developers and one... an often requested sequel.

I hope the other alien games are more horror focus than action.