Poll
Question:
Would you feel better about this?
Option 1: Yes
votes: 33
Option 2: No
votes: 39
Still, there're a lot of people seems to dislike/even hate Alien 3 (i'm not). And one of the main complains is that two main characters are killed right in the beginning.
So, imagine this: still prison planet, still bunch of bald rapers, still one alien and still ripley impregnated with queen BUT Newt and Hicks survived! How would you feel about this? Would you be happier with third movie?
Personally, i think there's posibillity for some interesting charcater dynamic. Prisoners still wanna to rape Ripley but here is Hicks to protect her. And here is still Clemens. It would be interesting to see relations between such interesting characters. Ripley must save Newt once again. And i think that final sacrifice scene could be even more powerfull because Ripley would be obligated to leave two only dear people for her. I almost can see Newt crying in that moment.
Give your voice!
Perhaps Newt leaving, the lone survivor would've been more appropriate than Morse but no I think overall the film would've suffered for it. And I'd fear for them instead of leaving Newt alone, afterwards she would go on to fight the Alien as Ripley did- and that's lame.
It's not really as simple as having them live would improve them film. Having them live would necessitate a completely different film. Hicks would be an unnecessary buffer messing up the dynamic with Clemens, Andrews, Dillon and Aaron - assuming he was in any shape to protect anyone.
Their deaths never bothered me.
Yes to them surviving, but a hard no on the rest of the film staying the same.
Their deaths never bothered me, but just felt handled poorly, to get from points B to C.
If the characters are going to die, I think it should have been handled better. Personally, I don't think Newt should have died, but I don't think she should carry on the torch of battling Aliens. It's already scary enough that she witnessed the gruesome deaths of her parents, sibling, and several of the Marines who'd saved her at such a young age. Going home and dealing with serious PTSD is not a happy ending.
The same can be said for Hicks. I wouldn't mind seeing more of his character and how he struggles to deal with the loss of his unit, of people he got close to since enlistment. Does he even want to continue serving after that? Would his mental health even permit that? Those are the stories I would've liked to see instead.
I'd prefer the script was good, first of all. Alien 3's really wasn't. It was a hodge podge of other peoples' ideas distilled by two guys who were already really irate at having to write the damned film in the first place. That was the real death knell. Killing off two characters in the intro à la Friday the 13th was just icing in comparison. The rest of the movie is only barely strung together by its atmosphere and the goodwill of (some) of the fandom.
6 yes to 8 no, almost equal. Interesting. Let's see how it goes further.
QuoteThe rest of the movie is only barely strung together by its atmosphere and the goodwill of (some) of the fandom.
Perfick.
Quote from: Valaquen on Feb 10, 2019, 04:30:14 PM
I'd prefer the script was good, first of all. Alien 3's really wasn't. It was a hodge podge of other peoples' ideas distilled by two guys who were already really irate at having to write the damned film in the first place. That was the real death knell. Killing off two characters in the intro à la Friday the 13th was just icing in comparison. The rest of the movie is only barely strung together by its atmosphere and the goodwill of (some) of the fandom.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/g9582DNuQppxC/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Valaquen on Feb 10, 2019, 04:30:14 PM
I'd prefer the script was good, first of all. Alien 3's really wasn't. It was a hodge podge of other peoples' ideas distilled by two guys who were already really irate at having to write the damned film in the first place. That was the real death knell. Killing off two characters in the intro à la Friday the 13th was just icing in comparison. The rest of the movie is only barely strung together by its atmosphere and the goodwill of (some) of the fandom.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/PudZiAbQDUEik/giphy.gif)
The last three (4 ?) comments are more depressing than Alien³ JC...
I can only assume that your reverence for Alien 3 is a generational thing.
I love Fincher's Alien 3, I love Newt and Hicks, but I wouldn't love Newt and Hicks in Fincher's Alien 3.
These characters were killed off because they would have parasited and obstructed the dynamics of the narrative, and in turn the final movie was developed around this decision - to keep this character would mean to redo the entire structure and atmosphere. It could keep the same environment but the social interactions would be way more lowkey, and also symbolically a single Alien wouldn't work if Ripley kept her little family around her. It would feel like she's "protected".
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Feb 10, 2019, 04:01:27 PM
If the characters are going to die, I think it should have been handled better. Personally, I don't think Newt should have died, but I don't think she should carry on the torch of battling Aliens. It's already scary enough that she witnessed the gruesome deaths of her parents, sibling, and several of the Marines who'd saved her at such a young age. Going home and dealing with serious PTSD is not a happy ending.
The same can be said for Hicks. I wouldn't mind seeing more of his character and how he struggles to deal with the loss of his unit, of people he got close to since enlistment. Does he even want to continue serving after that? Would his mental health even permit that? Those are the stories I would've liked to see instead.
I like the way you think Rabbit. :)
Quote from: Oasis Nadrama on Feb 11, 2019, 12:32:18 AM
These characters were killed off because they would have parasited and obstructed the dynamics of the narrative,
The characters being killed off was never some great artistic decision. They were killed by Vincent Ward because, in his words, the characters annoyed him and he wanted his film to be themed around family (specifically Ripley, her lost child, and her Alien pregnancy), and he thought those characters got in the way of those themes (somehow). The whole 'they needed to die' angle is some post-hoc stuff from the fanbase.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 10, 2019, 08:52:56 PM
The last three (4 ?) comments are more depressing than Alien³ JC...
I
do enjoy Alien 3. It has a lot of artistic merit. But at the same time it's a mess. No offense meant. Some of my favourite movies are trash (and Alien 3 is better than those).
Indeed.
I skipped the poll because I don't think anyone will care how I feel emotionally.
Will Newt and Hicks be in another movie? That's up to Disney.
And the only one who could get that studio to green light another Alien film is James Cameron.
He's working on it.
QuoteCameron was asked about calling up Blomkamp and pivoting to Aliens, to which he confirmed, saying: "I'm working on that, yeah."
https://news.yahoo.com/james-cameron-reveals-title-terminator-192724556.html
;)
I doubt it, JC's last film was in 2010 and was derviative spectacle most don't have any nostalgia for, to my knowledge it has no fanbase. Then he endorsed Terminator Genesis, released a f**ked up Judgment Day 4K, the 3D release was a commercial failure and Alita Battle Angel isn't looking too good at the moment. I don't have much faith and he's working on Avatar apparently, so I doubt he cares about much else in all honesty right now.
Neill Blomkamp's doing other things, RoboCop, Oats, Anthem.
I have additional question for you all: would you feel better if Clemens survived or at least died later in the movie?
I like Clemens because he's just a man who made mistake and had to paid for it for the rest of his life but i don't have problem with him dying so soon because it helps the idea of movie. I see Alien 3 as movie about one woman and her fate making the worst ever being imagined things to her. So, as soon as there something between Ripley and Clemens f**king fate just gets rid of him.
You answered the question for me.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 12, 2019, 11:45:46 AM
I doubt it, JC's last film was in 2009
and was the highest grossing film of all time*.
I mean, I hate
Avatar with a passion, but let's be fair.
Quote from: Kradan on Feb 12, 2019, 11:53:54 AM
I have additional question for you all: would you feel better if Clemens survived or at least died later in the movie?
I like Clemens because he's man who made mistake and had to paid for it for the rest of his life but i don't have problem with him dying so soon because it helps the idea of movie. I see Alien 3 as movie about one woman and her fate making the worst ever being imagined things to her. So, as soon as there something between Ripley and Clemens f**king fate just gets rid of him.
I think it would've been much more powerful if Clemens had been the one to sacrifice himself in the mold at the end than Dillon. The first half builds up a really strong connection that it tears away halfway through the movie, then never replaces with anything significant.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 12, 2019, 11:56:27 AM
I think it would've been much more powerful if Clemens had been the one to sacrifice himself in the mold at the end than Dillon.
That reminds me ending of Ward script for Alien
3
Basically. Killing Clemens has shock value, but weakens the characters in the story.
Newt being killed is better. This isn't a fairytale. It's a nightmare.
It's just the way they killed her.
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
Their deaths had a point, the point is the universe's a bitch.
And it pushes Sigourney Weaver's character, obviously.
"Some people go to the movies to be reminded that everything's OK,"
"I don't make those kinds of movies. That, to me, is a lie. Everything's not OK." -DF
Conversely, imagine if Michael Bishop had sweetened the pot with "Ripley, we found the girl. She's alive and well on our ship."
Eh, all that does for me is lessen the impact (literally too) at the beginning and make it so Newt can potentially reappear later down the line, not for me, no thank you.
"You insist on death." -Balthazar in Ben-Hur
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
Yup, would have been better than the franchise killing dick move they pulled. Ah well, at least we've got Gibson's script in comic form now, and hopefully one or two of the others get adapted in the future. Not the same as a movie, but at least there's an alternative out there. Have to say, Clemens' death did nothing for me. A case of good actor, bad character imo.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/OPrmGBaBUmbzG/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c63018e4571537351f46af3)
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 12, 2019, 04:12:00 PM
Their deaths had a point, the point is the universe's a bitch.
I think Ripley crashing on planet, without knowing if Hicks or Newt were safe, surrounded by rapists and murderers with an infestation of head lice, with a burster inside of her and her death imminent, is enough to get the point across that the universe is a bitch. ;D
Sometimes... Dead is better.
The lower the fall, the higher the rise.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
I like that. Mystery about their fates probably better then just death right in the beginning.
It would even work with two-thirds of Mark Verheiden's story.
Quote from: Kradan on Feb 12, 2019, 07:01:07 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
I like that. Mystery about their fates probably better then just death right in the beginning.
It would've given something Ripley to actually sacrifice at the end. An actual chance at happiness. Ripley runs out of reasons to live ten minutes into the film and no one in the audience buys Bishop II's bull at the end. He's got nothing to offer.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 12, 2019, 04:12:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVnLlwm3BZw
Their deaths had a point, the point is the universe's a bitch.
The film ends with Ripley saving the universe from the Alien once and for all (at least that's what Giler and Hill intended, until Fox pushed for Alien Resurrection.)
Never really bought the whole "Ripley sacrificing herself to save the universe"'angle tbh. Don't think it was ever established that LV426 was the Alien's home planet, or the only one they existed on. Obviously, that has the potential to become a plot hole depending on how the Prometheus/Covenant arc ends up (if it ever gets an ending).
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 12, 2019, 07:27:58 PM
Never really bought the whole "Ripley sacrificing herself to save the universe"'angle tbh. Don't think it was ever established that LV426 was the Alien's home planet, or the only one they existed on. Obviously, that has the potential to become a plot hole depending on how the Prometheus/Covenant arc ends up (if it ever gets an ending).
You can argue in-universe and that's fine (especially given that we've had loads of sequels and spin-offs since 1992 across all sorts of media) but the writers fully intended for Alien 3 to be
the end. The continued survival of the species post-Alien 3 was later decided by dollar-eating executives.
Nah, i did not cared at all for those two characters. I have even read people calling their deaths "plot holes" lol what.
Quote from: Valaquen on Feb 12, 2019, 07:21:28 PMIt would've given something Ripley to actually sacrifice at the end.
It would have also given her someone more personal to
save with her sacrifice. Screw humanity, she did it for Newt.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 08:21:21 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Feb 12, 2019, 07:21:28 PMIt would've given something Ripley to actually sacrifice at the end.
It would have also given her someone more personal to save with her sacrifice. Screw humanity, she did it for Newt.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/2xIOiAPXonois/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c632c2b555035752e303cd0)
Especially if Hicks survived, she knew she could trust him to look after Newt.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 08:32:35 PM
Especially if Hicks survived, she knew she could trust him to look after Newt.
Imagine Ripley having a brief vision of them happy on Earth as she is falling into the void. Brings a tear to my eye just thinking about it.
Reprehensible.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 12, 2019, 08:39:52 PM
What if Dwayne Hicks hit Michael Bishop on the back of the head with a wrench?
Why not? I'd like to see that.
What if Hicks wrested a pulse rifle away from one of the dogcatchers?
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 12, 2019, 08:39:32 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 08:32:35 PM
Especially if Hicks survived, she knew she could trust him to look after Newt.
Imagine Ripley having a brief vision of them happy on Earth as she is falling into the void. Brings a tear to my eye just thinking about it.
The "Bunch of lifers" Speech does, for myself.
Precisely because everyone is so insignificant in the eyes of the Corporate meat grinder.
Are we crud?
To Capitalism.
Oh boy..
(https://i.gifer.com/RfN.gif)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 08:42:32 PM
What if Hicks wrested a pulse rifle away from one of the dogcatchers?
Animal would've shot him.
To be honest, I'd leave Hicks out of it. Why would Michael Bishop bring him along anyway? I doubt he'd trust the company any more than Ripley did.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 09:05:00 PM
To be honest, I'd leave Hicks out of it. Why would Michael Bishop bring him along anyway? I doubt he'd trust the company any more than Ripley did.
A clone to make Ripley believe she'd be safe with them. Or a guy with plastic surgery to look like Hicks. Maybe Turk? :o
I kid, obviously.
Jesus Christ, I hate ACM so.
"No."
https://youtu.be/ZdcRIJRfNDY?t=1906
Masterpiece.
(https://y.yarn.co/7109073f-376a-44da-95c0-63c334c04f29_text_hi.gif)
/Thread.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 13, 2019, 11:02:24 AM
Jesus Christ, I hate ACM so.
Perhaps you just haven't played it enough.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 14, 2019, 04:11:31 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 13, 2019, 11:02:24 AM
Jesus Christ, I hate ACM so.
Perhaps you just haven't played it enough.
She doesn't know the thrill and blissful happiness of playing as Hudson in a bug hunt match.
Them dying during the events of (any) Alien 3 was never my problem per se, it was the unceremonious way in which they did it.
If Hicks had survived the crash and went out the way Dillon did I probably wouldn't be upset.
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Feb 14, 2019, 04:40:00 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 14, 2019, 04:11:31 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 13, 2019, 11:02:24 AM
Jesus Christ, I hate ACM so.
Perhaps you just haven't played it enough.
She doesn't know the thrill and blissful happiness of playing as Hudson in a bug hunt match.
I preferred playing as Drake ("Lights out bitch!" is the phrase I remember most :laugh:) but being Hudson and hearing him yell "We can do this!" is also hard to forget.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Feb 14, 2019, 04:50:18 PM
Them dying during the events of (any) Alien 3 was never my problem per se, it was the unceremonious way in which they did it.
If Hicks had survived the crash and went out the way Dillon did I probably wouldn't be upset.
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Feb 14, 2019, 04:40:00 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 14, 2019, 04:11:31 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 13, 2019, 11:02:24 AM
Jesus Christ, I hate ACM so.
Perhaps you just haven't played it enough.
She doesn't know the thrill and blissful happiness of playing as Hudson in a bug hunt match.
I preferred playing as Drake ("Lights out bitch!" is the phrase I remember most :laugh:) but being Hudson and hearing him yell "We can do this!" is also hard to forget.
My favorite is "Anytime, dickhead!"
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Feb 14, 2019, 04:50:18 PM
Them dying during the events of (any) Alien 3 was never my problem per se, it was the unceremonious way in which they did it.
If Hicks had survived the crash and went out the way Dillon did I probably wouldn't be upset.
JWP gets it.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 14, 2019, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Feb 14, 2019, 04:50:18 PM
Them dying during the events of (any) Alien 3 was never my problem per se, it was the unceremonious way in which they did it.
If Hicks had survived the crash and went out the way Dillon did I probably wouldn't be upset.
JWP gets it.
The best and only look.
https://cdn3.whatculture.com/images/2016/06/16135f834f2e3c53-600x400.jpg
That's Turk though.
Nah, just a Fincher haircut.
but ACM is cannon remember? ;D
Cannon? Perhaps.
Canon, No.
Quote from: Huggs on Feb 15, 2019, 12:37:59 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 14, 2019, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Feb 14, 2019, 04:50:18 PM
Them dying during the events of (any) Alien 3 was never my problem per se, it was the unceremonious way in which they did it.
If Hicks had survived the crash and went out the way Dillon did I probably wouldn't be upset.
JWP gets it.
The best and only look.
https://cdn3.whatculture.com/images/2016/06/16135f834f2e3c53-600x400.jpg
I see lazy writing, bagged. ;D
History, bagged.
One Cameron trope destruction device, signed sealed and delivered.
Courtesy of David Fincher.
David Fincher is probably still feeling guilty for killing our boy Hicks. Someone needs to tell him that with ACM he can forgive himself now.
Fincher owes Randy a huge debt.
Of course. ACM only improved on Alien 3, after all.
One could even argue that the acting in ACM is better than A3
Here's another thought has came into my mind today. What if instead of Bishop II in the end of Alien 3 Hicks would appear? Would you like him to have red or milky blood?
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Feb 15, 2019, 01:30:46 PM
One could even argue that the acting in ACM is better than A3
Now you are just beeing hurtful :D
It's like saying Jeff Beck is superior to Mozart .
I don't really have a problem with their deaths. Hicks could've probably gone out fighting or some such to lessen the suddenness of it and placate audiences, but at the same time it suits the merciless, apathetic nature of the Alien universe.
When I think about it, though, I'm not sure what keeping them alive would actually add. I mean, they weren't very deep characters to begin with. To me, their arcs had finished, and if anything, Alien 3 just cuts to the chase and gets on with Ripley's story.
Quote from: PsyKore on Feb 16, 2019, 07:21:31 AM
I don't really have a problem with their deaths. Hicks could've probably gone out fighting or some such to lessen the suddenness of it and placate audiences, but at the same time it suits the merciless, apathetic nature of the Alien universe.
When I think about it, though, I'm not sure what keeping them alive would actually add. I mean, they weren't very deep characters to begin with. To me, their arcs had finished, and if anything, Alien 3 just cuts to the chase and gets on with Ripley's story.
There were plenty of possible storylines for them imo (without just rehashing Aliens), as well as better and more satisfying ways to write them out.
I don't mind Newt's death. It fit the story imo. Hicks on the other hand should have died later on, maybe sacrificing himself to lure the alien into the holding tank, or taking either Dillon or 85's deaths. At the same time, I like how those characters went out, so I'm not sure id want to mess with that.
I would feel better. Hicks and Newt were great characters, and I get sad every time I see the funeral scene. It's great filmmaking though.
One of the major pluses of the film IMHO. Sets the grim tone and wrestled it back from the too cosy Hollywood ending. Plus, I have to say I felt more emotionally immersed in impact of Newt's character here because of the loss that Ripley felt. Great funeral scene, great music there too.
Quote from: Gash on Feb 18, 2019, 10:01:40 AM
One of the major pluses of the film IMHO. Sets the grim tone and wrestled it back from the too cosy Hollywood ending. Plus, I have to say I felt more emotionally immersed in impact of Newt's character here because of the loss that Ripley felt. Great funeral scene, great music there too.
Agreed
The survivors of Aliens were the reasons why I looked forward to the sequel. The fact that I didn't even get to see Newt and Hicks talk was a major letdown to me.
Quote from: Shinawi on Feb 20, 2019, 02:12:38 AM
The survivors of Aliens were the reasons why I looked forward to the sequel. The fact that I didn't even get to see Newt and Hicks talk was a major letdown to me.
Her last word was clearly visible.
Quote from: Huggs on Feb 20, 2019, 02:14:53 AM
Quote from: Shinawi on Feb 20, 2019, 02:12:38 AM
The survivors of Aliens were the reasons why I looked forward to the sequel. The fact that I didn't even get to see Newt and Hicks talk was a major letdown to me.
Her last word was clearly visible.
I mean, I wanted to see how they'd act in the prison.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 12, 2019, 11:45:46 AM
I doubt it, JC's last film was in 2009 and was derviative spectacle most don't have any nostalgia for, to my knowledge it has no fanbase. Then he endorsed Terminator Genesis, released a f**ked up Judgment Day 4K, the 3D release was a commercial failure and Alita Battle Angel isn't looking too good at the moment. I don't have much faith and he's working on Avatar apparently, so I doubt he cares about much else in all honesty right now.
Neill Blomkamp's doing other things, RoboCop, Oats, Anthem.
Things do look bleak for another Alien film and I'm not claiming that you or anyone else would like a new Cameron produced/scripted Alien movie.
I was looking at the best chance for a new Alien film to be made with the limits of Disney being in charge.
JC has the power in the industry to get this done.
Cameron also has the interest because he had another sequel planned while shooting "Aliens". He told this to the actors at the time.
Quote"I know that James Cameron had planned to have Hicks, Ripley and me in Alien 3, to have a family-type thing," Newt actress Carrie Henn said in 1995...
Sigourney Weaver, whose presence in the franchise was almost as pivotal as the title monster, wasn't enthusiastic about doing a third film...
https://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/alien/242677/the-alien-3-story-ideas-that-didnt-make-it-to-the-screen
Cameron's idea for an "Aliens" sequel is also in the "Alien 3" Blu-ray extras (as well as Weaver's objection to what Cameron was considering);
See "Wrecking and Rage: Making Alien 3" / "Development Hell: Concluding the story" / 6m 15s.
Weaver's opposition is no longer an issue. Her career has wound down & she wants to work.
* Good or bad JC could make this sequel happen.
;)
Honestly if you watch the Special Edition of Alien 3 nine times out of ten you'll like it just as much as the first two. Was it a slap in the face killing off Newt and Hicks? Sure it was. Did it really matter in the long run? Not really. Most people say that they like the feeling of hopelessness and dread Fincher was able to create along the studio interference that ran within. I think Alien 3 (Special Edition) wraps up the original character of Ripley's story nicely and give's her stories end kind of a daring and "into the fire" type of vibe.
It's all in how you look at it. Did you want the family dynamic to continue which would of equaled more sequels or did they do the right thing in the end by bringing finality to everything? I think the latter for sure.
I agree, overall.
Quote from: LastSurvivor92 on Mar 09, 2019, 06:33:42 PM
It's all in how you look at it. Did you want the family dynamic to continue which would of equaled more sequels or did they do the right thing in the end by bringing finality to everything? I think the latter for sure.
To me it's not about where you go, but how you got there. And the how needed some major work.
I disagree, it's excellent (corrections' omission) regardless.
*Shrugs*
Even though I see problems and hold it a step down from Alien & Aliens, I still enjoy Alien3 too and hold it way above Prometheus, Covenant, and the one that shall go unnamed. ;)
Fair enough, I see problems in both Alien sequels.
That sets up an interesting question. Do you perceive any faults in the first Alien, even in a minor degree, or is it perfect in your opinion? There's no wrong answer. :)
Yes, but only aesthetic elements, Ash's head and the Alien's death. Both look goofy.
Spoiler
Aliens (1986)
The USS Sulaco abandoned.
-The Ellen Ripley first dream/nightmare sequence, superfluous.
-The Ellen Ripley/Carter Burke PTSD discussion and post-dream decision's superior.
The adult Alien's desexualization, (No Carapace) the Alien's cumbrous and amorphous now.
Rebecca Jorden's survival.
Ellen Ripley's recontextualisation.
Alien³ (1992)
The Special Effects composition. (The adult Alien, other aspects)
The Egg inclusion. (The opening's edit)
Majority Special Edition + Theatrical Version birth = Perfect version.
Fair enough. :)
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 09, 2019, 07:19:48 PM
I don't appreciate the recontextualisation of Ripley as primarily a mother figure.
Considering all the mother imagery in Alien. The eggs. The life moving inside. The umbilical chord like tail. The penetration with Kane, and the pregnancy and birth. The ovarian looking room with the MU-TH-UR terminal. The fact they call it "Mother". Etc. It seemed a fitting continuation to me.
Quote from: LastSurvivor92 on Mar 09, 2019, 06:33:42 PM
Honestly if you watch the Special Edition of Alien 3 nine times out of ten you'll like it just as much as the first two. Was it a slap in the face killing off Newt and Hicks? Sure it was. Did it really matter in the long run? Not really. Most people say that they like the feeling of hopelessness and dread Fincher was able to create along the studio interference that ran within. I think Alien 3 (Special Edition) wraps up the original character of Ripley's story nicely and give's her stories end kind of a daring and "into the fire" type of vibe.
It's all in how you look at it. Did you want the family dynamic to continue which would of equaled more sequels or did they do the right thing in the end by bringing finality to everything? I think the latter for sure.
I take the middle ground myself. I think Ripley had all the finality she needed at the end of Aliens, personally. Went back to LV-426 and faced her fears, and found a surrogate daughter in Newt (as well as another alien survivor in Hicks). There were probably more stories that could have theoretically been told with those characters, but that was a perfect stopping off point for me.
To render the events of Aliens utterly redundant in the opening credits of the sequel was (as far as I'm concerned) a massively disappointing choice from Fox. I know they were antsy about continuing without Ripley, but anyone with half a brain could have come up with a solid story that didn't include her, and people would still have flocked to see it.
As for Resurrection, the less said the better...
Indeed, regarding Resurrection.
Violation visuals IMO, VM.
I recently rewatched everything. And this time their deaths bothered me more than the other times, I enjoyed Aliens's characters more this time around as well as what Cameron was trying to do with Ripley, Newt and Hicks. I don't mind how Alien 3 ended but how it got there.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 09, 2019, 10:29:08 PM
The family dynamic's tedious AF.
Its more than just the family dynamic, which I do like, I liked the characters and their relationships. And after what they went through in ALIENS I didn't want them to die. And I liked how the human family contrasted with the alien's "family".
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
I might have preferred this way.
The family's monotonous. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The expulsion enhances Ellen Ripley's character, it's the correct choice.
We agree to disagree.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/8733f52f028c3001c82202f116eb3898/tumblr_orm73bMzWk1rpfvpno4_500.gif)
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 10, 2019, 12:01:52 AM
Thank you!
Spoiler
;D
Spoiler
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/910408cb9d05f6510d29f4dca3734848/tenor.gif?itemid=7527064)
:laugh:
Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 09, 2019, 10:49:55 PM
We agree to disagree.
Surely we can all agree to agree though.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 10, 2019, 02:45:30 AM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 09, 2019, 10:49:55 PM
We agree to disagree.
Surely can all agree to agree though.
I disagree...to a degree.
But I'm open to coming to an agreement on the degree of disagreement.
Can one neither agree or disagree but the contrary?
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/97a9caa23972787b2fbe8b95a476dd81/tumblr_oq28a4xVBn1sas7dso5_500.gif)
Can't we all just meat in the middle?
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 10, 2019, 03:02:36 AM
Can't we all just meat in the middle?
Yeah this is the last time I google an english term I see on here that I don't know.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/Zj1lgnInd5xpC/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 10, 2019, 03:07:48 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 10, 2019, 03:02:36 AM
Can't we all just meat in the middle?
Yeah this is the last time I google an english term that I see on here that I don't know.
Don't eat the biscuit.
QuoteI think Ripley had all the finality she needed at the end of Aliens, personally. Went back to LV-426 and faced her fears, and found a surrogate daughter in Newt (as well as another alien survivor in Hicks). There were probably more stories that could have theoretically been told with those characters, but that was a perfect stopping off point for me.
Spoiler
Quote from: Kelgaard on Mar 12, 2019, 04:33:40 AM
QuoteI think Ripley had all the finality she needed at the end of Aliens, personally. Went back to LV-426 and faced her fears, and found a surrogate daughter in Newt (as well as another alien survivor in Hicks). There were probably more stories that could have theoretically been told with those characters, but that was a perfect stopping off point for me.
Outbreak, Nightmare Asylum and Earth War are examples of great stories told with these characters.
Though the way in which these characters are killed off is part of the bleak and nihilistic tone that Alien 3 presents. That's part of why I like Alien 3, it's just so Alien that the universe is an uncaring, unknowable place and the Xenomorph is like a manifestation of this.
Ripley last survivor of the Nostromo, kills the Alien and escapes in the Narcissus? Lost in space for 57 years. Outlives her daughter.
Destroys all trace of the Xenomorph on Acheron, second chance at being a mother and potential companion? Newt and Hicks are killed as result of the damaged caused by the facehugger that impregnates Ripley with a Queen.
Makes the ultimate sacrifice by taking her own life to destroy last trace of the Xenomorph, stops Weyland-Yutani from obtaining a sample and is finally free of the nightmare? Cloned back to life by the USM Military for the purpose of resurrecting the Xenomorph species. Due to DNA cross-contamination is a hybrid with the very species that has plagued her existence since that first encounter.
QuoteOutbreak, Nightmare Asylum and Earth War are examples of great stories told with these characters.
The comics are nice to have, but they're no substitute for cinema.
QuoteThough the way in which these characters are killed off is part of the bleak and nihilistic tone that Alien 3 presents.
This is where fans are divided on a fundamental level. Some love the dismal tone, others dislike it for precisely the same reason.
QuoteThat's part of why I like Alien 3, it's just so Alien that the universe is an uncaring, unknowable place and the Xenomorph is like a manifestation of this.
Conveyed well enough in the first two films without killing every last character that I care about
QuoteDestroys all trace of the Xenomorph on Acheron, second chance at being a mother and potential companion? Newt and Hicks are killed as result of the damaged caused by the facehugger that impregnates Ripley with a Queen.
If Alien 3 were a single film, I wouldn't care, but this is precisely why the movie sucks as a sequel to my favorite film. It ruins the experience of its predecessor. As much as I try to ignore it, I'll never be able to enjoy Aliens the way I did in the years before 1992, knowing the ultimate fate of the characters.
QuoteMakes the ultimate sacrifice by taking her own life
Diminished by the fact that she was going to die anyway.
Aliens is superior experience, because Alien³ extinguishes James Cameron's childish happily ever after.
No. The sacrifice allowed the universe a chance.
Hicks and Newt didn't need to die for Ripley to sacrifice herself.
f**k 'em.
Nice try, but I'm not taking that troll bait.
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 09, 2019, 10:48:22 PM
The family's monotonous. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The expulsion enhances Ellen Ripley's character, it's the correct choice.
They didn't need to appear in Alien 3 though.
And? The deaths enhances Ellen Ripley's story.
& Sigourney Weaver's performance.
Does it really? I believe the feels of her sacrifice could have been achieved regardless.
I don't. No replication equals the emotional destruction, of a new family (you together vanquished PTSD's respresentation) unceremonious, together crushed, you the last survivor.
Quote from: Valaquen on Feb 12, 2019, 07:21:28 PMIt would've given something Ripley to actually sacrifice at the end. An actual chance at happiness. Ripley runs out of reasons to live ten minutes into the film and no one in the audience buys Bishop II's bull at the end. He's got nothing to offer.
Knowing Newt is out there somewhere makes Ripley's sacrifice that much more emotional, imo.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 12, 2019, 02:03:00 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Feb 12, 2019, 07:21:28 PMIt would've given something Ripley to actually sacrifice at the end. An actual chance at happiness. Ripley runs out of reasons to live ten minutes into the film and no one in the audience buys Michael Bishop's bull at the end. He's got nothing to offer.
Hollow observation of the film.
I'm a pretty shallow guy though.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 12, 2019, 02:03:01 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Feb 12, 2019, 07:21:28 PMIt would've given something Ripley to actually sacrifice at the end. An actual chance at happiness. Ripley runs out of reasons to live ten minutes into the film and no one in the audience buys Bishop II's bull at the end. He's got nothing to offer.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 12, 2019, 02:05:04 PM
Knowing Newt is out there somewhere makes Ripley's sacrifice that much more emotional, imo.
Hell I never thought of that. Knowing that Hicks and Newt are out there somewhere would make Ripley's suicide up worse for her, Weyland could use that against her at the end, she didn't had much to live for at the end of Alien 3. In this case she would not only be sacrificing her life but a future with the ones she wanted to be with.
"You can still have a life, children?
And best of all, you'll know it's dead."
The reason the above's successful is because it's a farce, the audience knows it and Ripley knows it.
It's difficult to do the right thing when you've something to fight for.
It's more difficult to do the right thing when you've nothing to fight for.
That went over my head.
*Shrugs*
Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 12, 2019, 02:13:12 PMHell I never thought of that. Knowing that Hicks and Newt are out there somewhere would make Ripley's suicide up worse for her, Weyland could use that against her at the end, she didn't had much to live for at the end of Alien 3. In this case she would not only be sacrificing her life but a future with the ones she wanted to be with.
As I suggested before:
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 04:16:02 PM
Conversely, imagine if Michael Bishop had sweetened the pot with "Ripley, we found the girl. She's alive and well on our ship."
I can dig that.
(https://i.imgur.com/HKygiL2.jpg)
The onscreen idea's the correct idea.
Reply #136?
126, 130, 136.
(https://mikemcclaughry.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/the-trick-william-potter.jpg)
You don't mind that it hurts?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_mcfxagkM9T1qhejigo1_500.gif&hash=21a12f6ba8372751f0e1406619085cbeb1ad087b)
So do we all agree that Ripley's sacrifice would have been more poignant if her alternative was a happy life with Hicks and Newt?
That assumes that Michael Bishop was telling the truth about the operation to save Ripley.
True. Ripley may have been more tempted to take that chance if she'd had a better reason though.
I disagree, if Dwayne Hicks and Rebecca Jorden (Newt)'s alive- Ripley's personal attachment renders the sacrifice simple, save the family. But dead and the comfort's absent.
Again;
It's difficult to do the right thing when you've something to fight for.
It's more difficult to do the right thing when you've nothing to fight for.
I'd say it's easy to do either when you've got nothing to lose.
It all just depends on the preferred outcome.
In ripleys case, she had more reason to get revenge than to live.
She gave them the proverbial middle finger and fell.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
Now that is some damn fine thinking.
I like that line of thought..
I like it a lot.
Quote from: lost dragon on Mar 17, 2019, 03:48:03 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
Now that is some damn fine thinking.
I like that line of thought..
I like it a lot.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/InfamousClassicBantamrooster-size_restricted.gif)
And it makes a more meaningful sacrifice to boot!
No, it doesn't. It diminishes the film's narrative and thematic aspiration.
No. But given a chance of doing it differently, I would have had Newt die in the crash, and Hicks survive alongside Ripley. It might have been interesting to see them both cope with the grief, then have an ending where Hicks stands up to the Company to protect Ripley, maybe takes out a couple of soldiers before being killed, and as Ripley sees this, she realises that the Company will stop at nothing to get hold of an alien, and falls into the pit. Just an idea I've always had, and reason #45 why my writing career is in such disrepair
Ripley lives as she dreams. Alone.
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 17, 2019, 04:15:50 PM
No, it doesn't. It diminishes the film's narrative and thematic aspiration.
But it makes people feel better.
^The perfect counter-argument.
&
Ellen Ripley allowing the Company the Alien is revenge. The Company's bioweapon personnel die but countless innocent people withal.
Ellen Ripley's Alien abortion is selfless.
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 17, 2019, 10:50:28 PM
^The perfect counter-argument.
Did it change your mind?
The reverse.
It strengthened your resolve like Palpatine?
lol
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 12, 2019, 02:02:26 PM
I don't. No replication equals the emotional destruction, of a new family (you together vanquished PTSD's respresentation) unceremonious, together crushed, you the last survivor.
Bingo. The Old One gets it. Newt and Hicks dying makes everything better, no matter what James Cameron says. Deaths are meant to hurt. Ripley is the last one, always. She ends the first film alone, and she ends her last film alone. Ripley dies KNOWING she's alone. That she has nothing else to live for except herself dying to kill an Alien.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/hEH8ATUeaaI12/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Huntsman on Mar 19, 2019, 11:45:35 AM
Ripley dies KNOWING she's alone. That she has nothing else to live for except herself dying to kill an Alien.
A sacrifice is more meaningful, more of a sacrifice, if one has someone to live for. I don't think anyone can successfully argue otherwise.
If Dwayne Hicks and Rebecca Jorden (Newt)'s alive- Ripley's personal attachment renders the sacrifice simple, save the family. But dead and the comfort's absent.
Ellen Ripley allowing the Company the Alien is revenge. The Company's bioweapon personnel die but countless innocent people withal.
Ellen Ripley's Alien abortion is selfless.
Ellen Ripley chooses sacrifice over revenge.
It's difficult to do the right thing when you've something to fight for.
It's more difficult to do the right thing when you've nothing to fight for.
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 19, 2019, 03:35:46 PM
If Dwayne Hicks and Rebecca Jorden (Newt)'s alive- Ripley's personal attachment renders the sacrifice simple, save the family. But dead and the comfort's absent.
Ellen Ripley allowing the Company the Alien is revenge. The Company's bioweapon personnel die but countless innocent people withal.
Ellen Ripley's Alien abortion is selfless.
Ellen Ripley chooses sacrifice over revenge.
It's difficult to do the right thing when you've something to fight for.
It's more difficult to do the right thing when you've nothing to fight for.
Whole heartedly disagree with that statement.
And let's flip that coin:
Keeping the Alien out of the hands of the company is revenge!
It's less difficult to die when you have no one to live for. Plus you get to give a big middle finger to the company to boot!
It's more difficult to die when you have someone to live for, and now depends on you.
Incorrect.
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 19, 2019, 03:54:06 PM
Incorrect. You've obviously never actually been in the situation where you have nothing to live for, it's more difficult to continue fighting and keep the moral high ground.
Killing yourself is not continuing fighting.
QuoteThe Alien isn't what destroyed Ripley's life, the Company is- but she's abstaining from revenge because she's disallowing them the opportunity to obtain the Alien. Full well knowing that it would wipe out the Company she despises, but there's also the potential that it would kill everything else.
Obviously revenge is not a logical pursuit because it could end in one extreme, the company gets what they want by containing and weaponizong the Alien, or the other extreme, the Alien cannot be contained and destroys not just the company but all of humanity. So there's no
there there.
QuoteThat's the thing that makes Ripley a hero and a true Christlike figure in her final hours, because she has absolutely nothing to gain from doing the right thing and does it anyway.
Finally conquering the Alien that has taken so much from her, finally winning over the hellish beast, is plenty to gain in my eyes.
Yes it is for Ellen Ripley.
Revenge is a emotional pursuit.
Ellen Ripley's clearly emotional.
The hellish beast is a hellish beast, but it's irrelevance is because the Company is the real world and Ellen Ripley's fictional world; vortex.
It's responsible for the Nostromo's investigation- beginning it all.
YOU!!! You delete posts after I reply to them? So not fair!!! :P
No, I edited.
The OG post irritated. Regardless, you replied.
I̶t̶ ̶m̶a̶t̶t̶e̶r̶s̶.
You edited paragraphs down to one word: Incorrect. Thank goodness I quoted you!
In forums we call that bad form!
I'll always have to quote you from now on to be safe. Otherwise, one day you'll ask me what my favorite animal is, I'll reply a platypus, and then you'll change it to: With whom would you most want to have a romantic relationship with? :P
Then why bother deleting it at all I say, I say!
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
Internal logic.
She is a unique mobile platform.
I forgot to quote again. How quickly I forget to listen to my own advice.
Gin kills brain cells.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2019, 08:06:58 PM
I forgot to quote again. How quickly I forget to listen to my own advice.
Gin kills brain cells.
Do you need some help?
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Mar 19, 2019, 08:11:53 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2019, 08:06:58 PM
I forgot to quote again. How quickly I forget to listen to my own advice.
Gin kills brain cells.
Do you need some help?
Yes, do you have some more gin?
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2019, 08:50:02 PM
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Mar 19, 2019, 08:11:53 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2019, 08:06:58 PM
I forgot to quote again. How quickly I forget to listen to my own advice.
Gin kills brain cells.
Do you need some help?
Yes, do you have some more gin?
I don't drink, remember?
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2019, 05:16:43 PM
YOU!!! You delete posts after I reply to them? So not fair!!! :P
:laugh:
She does it to me too.
She's trying to make us all look crazy.
Talking to ourselves and such.
Quote from: Huggs on Mar 19, 2019, 11:23:13 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2019, 05:16:43 PM
YOU!!! You delete posts after I reply to them? So not fair!!! :P
:laugh:
She does it to me too.
She's trying to make us all look crazy.
Talking to ourselves and such.
I already look crazy.
Quote from: Huggs on Mar 19, 2019, 11:23:13 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2019, 05:16:43 PM
YOU!!! You delete posts after I reply to them? So not fair!!! :P
:laugh:
She does it to me too.
She's trying to make us all look crazy.
Talking to ourselves and such.
Wait? So you, me, we, we're not really crazy?
It was just Old One's genius plan the whole time?
I knew we were the very models of sanity!
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f17372d11d68f083dce1c3a88ec5f8ae/tenor.gif?itemid=4102355)
(https://i.imgur.com/rTAIBN4.jpg)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 24, 2019, 05:50:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rTAIBN4.jpg)
Starring:
Old Errol Flynn as Ripley
Nick Stahl as Hicks
And Dakota Fanning as Newt
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 24, 2019, 05:50:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rTAIBN4.jpg)
What the hell is this!???
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 24, 2019, 05:50:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rTAIBN4.jpg)
That Newt...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.poeghostal.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2Faliens-hudson-neca-poe-ghostal-review-9.jpg&hash=38dfcd6c98aab36e8a6120d504e873cdfe963762)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 24, 2019, 11:41:44 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 24, 2019, 05:50:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rTAIBN4.jpg)
That Newt...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.poeghostal.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2Faliens-hudson-neca-poe-ghostal-review-9.jpg&hash=38dfcd6c98aab36e8a6120d504e873cdfe963762)
Dat Hudson.(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DaringWideeyedAngora-size_restricted.gif)
Even Hudson gets constipated. It's perfectly natural.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 24, 2019, 12:01:39 PM
Even Hudson gets constipated. It's perfectly natural.
Oh, I believe it.
"Uuuunnhhh . . . damn whole-wheat bagels just ain't moving through, man!"
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 24, 2019, 05:50:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rTAIBN4.jpg)
Oh shit, Newt looks like she is half a year of hard drug abuse away from starring in one of that old faces of meth shock pictures.
Doesn't it make you all feel better seeing them together though?
Horrific Carrie Henn.
The Michael Biehn imitation is alright though.
Now wouldn't that make you feel better?
It would make Cameron feel better. Fincher probably not.
I doubt Fincher would give a shit. He just filmed the script that was foisted upon him by Fox.
Take after take after take after take...
lol, I ain't doin' it anymore.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 25, 2019, 01:00:32 AM
I doubt Fincher would give a shit. He just filmed the script that was foisted upon him by Fox.
Maybe its another thing Fincher hated doing on Alien 3.
Alone David Fincher's knowledge.
Another reason to get him for a podcast.
And another film.
With a decent script.
*A good script.
(Relatively)
This franchise doesn't film good scripts anymore. They have to be rewritten until they're, at best, merely decent.
Yeah, personally it's my belief that we got is; great script, great script, decent script,
awful (AR), awful (AVP), awful (AVPR), half-decent and half-decent.
Law of averages suggests: the next'll be good. ;D
Spoiler
Please.
I wouldn't have minded if one or both had been killed on camera. That's what sticks in my craw about the whole thing.
I've always thought it's a bit like the next Superman movie opening with Batman saying to Superman "It's shit that Lois died the other day, man..."
I just think it was wrong that they were offed cos reasons... That I don't like it doesn't change it (only in a retcon!).
If they had both survived the movie and Ripley still makes her sacrifice - I'd have liked that too. It'd still be pretty bleak but at least with some sense of hope at the end?
Though, I do get that 3 was the nastiest and most nihilistic of all of them and that's not to be degenerated - it's a horrid universe. But both Alien and Aliens end "happily..." I think 3 could have had both if, as I say, they off Rippers, but Newt and Hicks survive.
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 25, 2019, 01:57:00 AM
Yeah, personally it's my belief that we got is; great script, great script, decent script,
awful (AR), awful (AVP), awful (AVPR), half-decent and half-decent.
Law of averages suggests: the next'll be good. ;D
Spoiler
Please.
(https://d1gbp99v447ls8.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/20135400/believe.gif)
Quote from: Russ on Mar 26, 2019, 11:32:52 AM
Though, I do get that 3 was the nastiest and most nihilistic of all of them and that's not to be degenerated - it's a horrid universe. But both Alien and Aliens end "happily..." I think 3 could have had both if, as I say, they off Rippers, but Newt and Hicks survive.
Would it make her sacrifice more meaningful?
No. Partially the story's concerning regaining faith. Ripley, the prisoners, humanity itself.
Can't do that if Hicks and Newt live.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 12, 2019, 01:43:02 PM
Hicks and Newt didn't need to die for Ripley to sacrifice herself.
I'm on board with this if Cameron writes and directs it.
If JC wants Ripley to wake up after falling into the vat from A3 saying she had a nightmare, fine.
JC has said he doesn't like killing off main characters. And we know from the "Aliens" cast what his ideas for a sequel were.
Something like "Terminator 2" with a family unit defending itself from a villain invader.
If JC did that, I'd watch it.
I just don't want Blomkamp after "Chappie" & "Elysium" to touch it.
;)
Hicks and Newt were only in one movie. It's not like there had been some budding romance or relationships spread out over a trilogy before they were killed. Their importance in the overall narrative is a bit exaggerated. It was ridiculous enough that one person survived that many encounters.
The very moment the franchise is allowed to go terminator and do the "family vs" thing, it's all over. The alien will lose everything that makes it special. Right now it's still an experience. It stands out among the others. Aliens 2 would kill that. It would truly become "movie". Dependant on cliche and nostalgia for every breath. No different than terminator or the Jurassic series.
Alien is better than that. It's better than what everything else is doing. It's shouldn't be tied to any characters. It's bigger than Ripley. It's bigger than Hicks or insta-families, or happy endings, or any of Cameron's tropes.
Sorry Neil, sorry Jim. The actors are old, the characters are dead. Let it go.
#respectthebeast
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 09, 2019, 04:57:52 AM
Hicks and Newt were only in one movie. It's not like there had been some budding romance or relationships spread out over a trilogy before they were killed. Their importance in the overall narrative is a bit exaggerated. It was ridiculous enough that one person survived that many encounters.
The very moment the franchise is allowed to go terminator and do the "family vs" thing, it's all over. The alien will lose everything that makes it special. Right now it's still an experience. It stands out among the others. Aliens 2 would kill that. It would truly become "movie". Dependant on cliche and nostalgia for every breath. No different than terminator or the Jurassic series.
Alien is better than that. It's better than what everything else is doing. It's shouldn't be tied to any characters. It's bigger than Ripley. It's bigger than Hicks or insta-families, or happy endings, or any of Cameron's tropes.
Sorry Neil, sorry Jim. The actors are old, the characters are dead. Let it go.
#respectthebeast
Yes. There are hundreds of potential stories to explore in this universe, if you put fan service in the way of making a good story you end up with modern Star Wars movies
Definitely - yes.
Also with alive Shaw. :)
Reply #212 correct. ;D
#respectthebeast
Nah, i dont liked their characters much, too cliche to my taste, they add nothing.
Screw making Alien 3 a nightmare. Just make seperate timelines.
The Sulaco drifting through space after Aliens leaves room for multiple stories.
Always thought Hicks and Newt had served their purpose, story-wise. Plus, as others have said, the idea of the three of them becoming some kind of family unit pitted against the Aliens always struck me as pretty cringey, so I'm really glad they at least negated that.
Maybe I'm a nihilist, but to be honest, I always appreciated the balls the third film had in killing off all of its main characters, even if the execution was flawed. It certainly makes it stand out among big franchise movies, where anyone important is almost invariably protected by plot armour.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 15, 2019, 08:15:48 AM
Maybe I'm a nihilist, but to be honest, I always appreciated the balls the third film had in killing off all of its main characters, even if the execution was flawed. It certainly makes it stand out among big franchise movies, where anyone important is almost invariably protected by plot armour.
I'm of the same frame of mind. I know it's not actually intended to reinforce any actual themes of harshness or nihilism, but it works regardless and that's something about the film I actually really enjoy about it.
Hear hear.
One of the best elements of Alien 3 is the demise of the cosy surrogate family.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 15, 2019, 09:46:30 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 15, 2019, 08:15:48 AM
Maybe I'm a nihilist, but to be honest, I always appreciated the balls the third film had in killing off all of its main characters, even if the execution was flawed. It certainly makes it stand out among big franchise movies, where anyone important is almost invariably protected by plot armour.
I'm of the same frame of mind. I know it's not actually intended to reinforce any actual themes of harshness or nihilism, but it works regardless and that's something about the film I actually really enjoy about it.
Yeah, I agree. Alien 3 is like Terminator 3, in that way. Killing off Newt and Hicks is like the Judgment Day ending - nobody expected it!
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 25, 2019, 03:31:48 PM
But y'know, good.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/67/e2/9f/67e29f2e8a45e573c29a81a4997fc6cd.gif)
No @OP.
Yes, it's a good film regardless.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 15, 2019, 08:15:48 AM
Always thought Hicks and Newt had served their purpose, story-wise. Plus, as others have said, the idea of the three of them becoming some kind of family unit pitted against the Aliens always struck me as pretty cringey, so I'm really glad they at least negated that.
Maybe I'm a nihilist, but to be honest, I always appreciated the balls the third film had in killing off all of its main characters, even if the execution was flawed. It certainly makes it stand out among big franchise movies, where anyone important is almost invariably protected by plot armour.
High quality post right here
The fact they die isn't the problem, more that it seemed they were just being killed off because they weren't useful in the story. (Or that the actors weren't available). Seemed more of a technical thing than story thing.
They didn't know an alien bigger than a powerloader had snuck aboard until it started attacking everyone.
That even a face hugger went unnoticed, is no surprise.
Regardless, they had to croak. The Alien universe cannot tolerate happiness. Fischer was wise enough to know and support this.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 01:29:04 AM
The Alien universe cannot tolerate happiness.
Happiness is not synonymous with Hick's and Newt's survival.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2019, 01:56:15 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 01:29:04 AM
The Alien universe cannot tolerate happiness.
Happiness is not synonymous with Hick's and Newt's survival.
It is for Ripley.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 02:01:18 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2019, 01:56:15 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 01:29:04 AM
The Alien universe cannot tolerate happiness.
Happiness is not synonymous with Hick's and Newt's survival.
It is for Ripley.
Death is easier when you have no one to live for.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2019, 02:04:40 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 02:01:18 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2019, 01:56:15 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 01:29:04 AM
The Alien universe cannot tolerate happiness.
Happiness is not synonymous with Hick's and Newt's survival.
It is for Ripley.
Death is easier when you have no one to live for.
There's always Christmas and Italian food.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 02:07:08 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2019, 02:04:40 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 02:01:18 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2019, 01:56:15 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 01:29:04 AM
The Alien universe cannot tolerate happiness.
Happiness is not synonymous with Hick's and Newt's survival.
It is for Ripley.
Death is easier when you have no one to live for.
There's always Christmas and Italian food.
Linguini in clam sauce does make a life worth living!
Again,
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 19, 2019, 03:35:46 PM
If Dwayne Hicks and Rebecca Jorden (Newt)'s alive- Ripley's personal attachment renders the sacrifice simple, save the family. But dead and the comfort's absent.
Ellen Ripley allowing the Company the Alien is revenge. The Company's bioweapon personnel die but countless innocent people withal.
Ellen Ripley's Alien abortion is selfless.
Ellen Ripley chooses sacrifice over revenge.
It's difficult to do the right thing when you've something to fight for.
It's more difficult to do the right thing when you've nothing to fight for.
Revenge is a emotional pursuit.
Ellen Ripley's clearly emotional.
The hellish beast is a hellish beast, but it's irrelevance is because the Company is the real world and Ellen Ripley's fictional world; vortex.
It's responsible for the Nostromo's investigation- beginning it all.
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 28, 2019, 02:33:25 AM
Again,
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 19, 2019, 03:35:46 PM
If Dwayne Hicks and Rebecca Jorden (Newt)'s alive- Ripley's personal attachment renders the sacrifice simple, save the family. But dead and the comfort's absent.
Ellen Ripley allowing the Company the Alien is revenge. The Company's bioweapon personnel die but countless innocent people withal.
Ellen Ripley's Alien abortion is selfless.
Ellen Ripley chooses sacrifice over revenge.
It's difficult to do the right thing when you've something to fight for.
It's more difficult to do the right thing when you've nothing to fight for.
I can repost my reply to your repost, but why do that when we can just group hug? ;D
(https://img.maximummedia.ie/her_ie/eyJkYXRhIjoie1widXJsXCI6XCJodHRwOlxcXC9cXFwvbWVkaWEtaGVyLm1heGltdW1tZWRpYS5pZS5zMy5hbWF6b25hd3MuY29tXFxcL3dwLWNvbnRlbnRcXFwvdXBsb2Fkc1xcXC8yMDE1XFxcLzA1XFxcLzIyMTY0MDA5XFxcL2dyb3VwLWh1Zy1naWYtc3ByaXRlLmdpZlwiLFwid2lkdGhcIjo3NjcsXCJoZWlnaHRcIjo0MzEsXCJkZWZhdWx0XCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL3d3dy5oZXIuaWVcXFwvYXNzZXRzXFxcL2ltYWdlc1xcXC9oZXJcXFwvbm8taW1hZ2UucG5nP2lkPWI2M2IwNzFiMTNhMGQ5NGVjNjEzXCIsXCJvcHRpb25zXCI6W119IiwiaGFzaCI6ImEyYmI4ZmQwMzk0MDNkNDYwMWI0NGU3Y2Y4YjQ1NGUyZDFiM2Q3YjMifQ==/group-hug-gif-sprite.gif)
Quote from: Roby on Apr 28, 2019, 12:42:52 AMSeemed more of a technical thing than story thing.
The fact they were dead in all but one of the various scripts written for the third film suggests it wasn't merely technical.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2019, 02:10:28 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 02:07:08 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2019, 02:04:40 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 02:01:18 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2019, 01:56:15 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 01:29:04 AM
The Alien universe cannot tolerate happiness.
Happiness is not synonymous with Hick's and Newt's survival.
It is for Ripley.
Death is easier when you have no one to live for.
There's always Christmas and Italian food.
Linguini in clam sauce does make a life worth living!
Come-on gents, let's refrain from doing this often. There's so much derailing lately.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 28, 2019, 10:42:21 AM
Quote from: Roby on Apr 28, 2019, 12:42:52 AMSeemed more of a technical thing than story thing.
The fact they were dead in all but one of the various scripts written for the third film suggests it wasn't merely technical.
Yeah. It makes sense. Scary isn't scary when you have company. It's why co-op horror games don't work. Alien Isolation with a friend would be way less tense.
Quote from: Stitch on Apr 28, 2019, 09:28:37 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 28, 2019, 10:42:21 AM
Quote from: Roby on Apr 28, 2019, 12:42:52 AMSeemed more of a technical thing than story thing.
The fact they were dead in all but one of the various scripts written for the third film suggests it wasn't merely technical.
Yeah. It makes sense. Scary isn't scary when you have company. It's why co-op horror games don't work. Alien Isolation with a friend would be way less tense.
Yet Ripley had plenty of company.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 28, 2019, 10:42:21 AM
The fact they were dead in all but one of the various scripts written for the third film suggests it wasn't merely technical.
I'd have preferred something along the lines of AlienKamp, but to be honest, its not that they die. It's the "how" - in my view (and it's all subjective) I don't think it was handled very well. It really fits the "pissing against the wall and call it Alien and people will watch it" analogy.
It was disrespectful to what had already been established - sure, kill one or both off, but at least do it on camera and make it a part of the story and not treat the characters as obstacles that needed to be removed for this story to take place. It is a sequel after all, but it makes no sense from the get go (as has been discussed for eleventy billion pages elsewhere) and then having decided that we're not going to explain the facehuggers, we're also going to handwave two major characters.
Not for me, but equally, I'm aware of the nihilist counter argument. I just think there were better stories that could have been told, but we all know how much BS surrounded A3.
Quote from: Russ on Apr 29, 2019, 09:53:39 AMIt was disrespectful to what had already been established - sure, kill one or both off, but at least do it on camera and make it a part of the story and not treat the characters as obstacles that needed to be removed for this story to take place.
The "do it on camera" comment is fair, but I don't really see how anyone can claim their deaths aren't a part of the story. The entire first act of the film is about Ripley dealing with their passing.
If they were merely obstacles, would the film have wasted time giving them such a grand (and quite moving) funeral scene? They're literally the only characters in the entire series to get such a sendoff, so I've always thought it's unfair to say they were simply tossed out or handwaved aside. They weren't. Their passing was actually dealt with far more reverently than anyone else in the franchise.
Good point - you could argue that this scene also serves to underscore the religious aspect of the prisoner cult, but duly noted, its a fair comment.
As I say, it's purely subjective - it's just not the film I wanted to see.
I suspect that this site aside, that's a fair barometer of wider opinion given the attempts to reboot, reinvent and all the rest of it that have followed...and haven't really been that successful in narrative terms. ... even if the box office returns on Prometheus were great (wonder if that was curiosity money as Covenant didn't do nearly as well and that was a much more "Alieny" movie than its predecessor?).
It's because Prometheus was touted as Ridley Scott's return to Sci-Fi, a amazing cast and a superb trailer. Obscuring the awful script.
So by the time the sequel appears, people are throughrally disenchanted.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2019, 09:50:07 PM
Quote from: Stitch on Apr 28, 2019, 09:28:37 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 28, 2019, 10:42:21 AM
Quote from: Roby on Apr 28, 2019, 12:42:52 AMSeemed more of a technical thing than story thing.
The fact they were dead in all but one of the various scripts written for the third film suggests it wasn't merely technical.
Yeah. It makes sense. Scary isn't scary when you have company. It's why co-op horror games don't work. Alien Isolation with a friend would be way less tense.
Yet Ripley had plenty of company.
She did in Aliens, which isn't really a horror movie. In Alien 3, there was threat from the other inmates almost as much as from the alien.
Aside from the attempted assault, the inmates were mostly kept under control thanks to andrews, their religion, and Dillon.
I think the most frightening problem Ripley personally faces in the third film is that there is a legitimate chance the company will succeed in acquiring a specimen. In alien, she had a determined crew with flamethrowers and a self destruct system. In aliens, she had heavily armed marines. All she has to fight with in alien 3 is a bunch of cons who want to save their own skins, and no weapons at all. The Alien is running circles around them, the company is getting closer, and her time is running out.
Quote from: Huggs on May 04, 2019, 03:57:44 AM
Aside from the attempted assault, the inmates were mostly kept under control thanks to andrews, their religion, and Dillon.
I think the most frightening problem Ripley personally faces in the third film is that there is a legitimate chance the company will succeed in acquiring a specimen. In alien, she had a determined crew with flamethrowers and a self destruct system. In aliens, she had heavily armed marines. All she has to fight with in alien 3 is a bunch of cons who want to save their own skins, and no weapons at all. The Alien is running circles around them, the company is getting closer, and her time is running out.
Alien 3 for me also has the most interesting aspect of Ripley, in that she has already lost her Nostromo crew, then learns that she outlived her own daughter, then she goes back to LV-426, forms a bond with both Hicks and Newt and believes she has finally destroyed the creatures that effectively ruined her life, only to be dragged back into the nightmare at the last second. Alien 3 picks up with her coping with the loss of Hicks and Newt,having Clemens die right in front of her, and then the final nail, she has an embryo inside her. I always saw her pleas for Dillon to kill her to be her wanting to check out, she's completely broken. She wants to die because she has had enough, not just because of the alien inside her, though it is a factor. For the first half of the movie, it feels like Ripley is absent, and the woman in her place is just a shadow. But then Dillon refuses to kill her, and gives her a 'motivational speech' which then almost brings her back when she decides to help kill the alien first. Then she gets a lifeline, Bishop offers to remove the embryo and give her a chance at a new life, and credit to Sigourney Weaver's performance, you can see her consider it for a second, but then she says no, and the real Ripley comes back. This is just my opinion, and it is the reason why 3 is my favourite of the franchise.
Awesome. :)
Quote from: LastSonofKrypton on May 04, 2019, 06:14:53 PM
Quote from: Huggs on May 04, 2019, 03:57:44 AM
Aside from the attempted assault, the inmates were mostly kept under control thanks to andrews, their religion, and Dillon.
I think the most frightening problem Ripley personally faces in the third film is that there is a legitimate chance the company will succeed in acquiring a specimen. In alien, she had a determined crew with flamethrowers and a self destruct system. In aliens, she had heavily armed marines. All she has to fight with in alien 3 is a bunch of cons who want to save their own skins, and no weapons at all. The Alien is running circles around them, the company is getting closer, and her time is running out.
Alien 3 for me also has the most interesting aspect of Ripley, in that she has already lost her Nostromo crew, then learns that she outlived her own daughter, then she goes back to LV-426, forms a bond with both Hicks and Newt and believes she has finally destroyed the creatures that effectively ruined her life, only to be dragged back into the nightmare at the last second. Alien 3 picks up with her coping with the loss of Hicks and Newt,having Clemens die right in front of her, and then the final nail, she has an embryo inside her. I always saw her pleas for Dillon to kill her to be her wanting to check out, she's completely broken. She wants to die because she has had enough, not just because of the alien inside her, though it is a factor. For the first half of the movie, it feels like Ripley is absent, and the woman in her place is just a shadow. But then Dillon refuses to kill her, and gives her a 'motivational speech' which then almost brings her back when she decides to help kill the alien first. Then she gets a lifeline, Bishop offers to remove the embryo and give her a chance at a new life, and credit to Sigourney Weaver's performance, you can see her consider it for a second, but then she says no, and the real Ripley comes back. This is just my opinion, and it is the reason why 3 is my favourite of the franchise.
Quality post.
The first of the list, characters rightfully immediately dispatched.
Also, I disagree Jaws 2 is "dreadful". It's the only sequel that's kinda solid.
The Alien universe is brutal and realistic. No happy ending against all odds lasts here. I like that and I like that they died. I do understand that the way they died was insulting for the people who liked those characters. I personally never understood why they were so liked. I always considered them secondary characters, though killing a child was a ballsy move.
My favorite characters in Aliens, besides Ripley of course, were Hudson and Apone, but they died as they should've. No one is safe from the alien. I also like that part of the prequels, though again it does help that I found Shaw very annoying. I liked Daniels quite a bit, but meh, plot armor be damned, David doesn't give a f*ck, he can have her.
That's also why I recoil in fear when I hear about continuing Ripley's story. Don't make her the goddess that destroys a billion aliens, please. The comics are already testing my suspension of disbelief with how many times can Amanda survive her encounters, especially with the last comic and the horde of aliens. But it's not that bad, yet.
Keep the aliens deadly, no character should be safe from them. These movies survived and were so popular in large part cause of the creature. And I think the Alien is more important than any one character, even Ripley.
The list is garbage, because it starts with characters eliminated to improve the overall narrative at the beginning of the film, not in-between.
I don't mind if any character dies off . I just felt Alien 3 did it poorly. So yes, but it doesn't mean they have to make it through the movie.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
That would have worked well too.
And Alien 4 could have been the Adventures of Hix & Noot like everyone wanted.
Perhaps they could work it into Guardians of the Galaxy 3?
They almost worked it into The Predator.
So you're saying there's a chance?
Now I wonder isn't Hicks suited more for the role of PredKiller? He's marine and has military training, right?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 24, 2019, 02:21:07 AMAnd Alien 4 could have been the Adventures of Hix & Noot like everyone wanted.
>:(
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
What if the order of
Aliens and
Alien3 were swapped?
So Ripley flees the Nostromo at the end of
Alien, crash lands the Narcissus on Fiorina - no Hicks, no Newt - and at the end of the film Ripley doesn't kill herself. Rather, Bishop/WY swoops in and rescues her (a possibility implied in the existing version), taking her back to Gateway for interrogation. Then we get the 3rd movie,
Aliens, and because she isn't dead at the end of that no need to resurrect her into Ripley8 for a 4th film
TC
Now I want to see if you can edit Alien3 as a sequel to Alien...
Best solution.
Also Alien 3 looks more like the sequel of Alien.
Quote from: TC on Jul 24, 2019, 08:53:09 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
What if the order of Aliens and Alien3 were swapped?
So Ripley flees the Nostromo at the end of Alien, crash lands the Narcissus on Fiorina - no Hicks, no Newt - and at the end of the film Ripley doesn't kill herself. Rather, Bishop/WY swoops in and rescues her (a possibility implied in the existing version), taking her back to Gateway for interrogation. Then we get the 3rd movie, Aliens, and because she isn't dead at the end of that no need to resurrect her into Ripley8 for a 4th film
TC
Excellent! you just won the thread ^
(https://i.imgur.com/lmRA7om.gif)
Quote from: SiL on Jul 24, 2019, 08:57:35 AM
Now I want to see if you can edit Alien3 as a sequel to Alien...
We don't deserve so much, but aye!
Quote from: Drukathi on Jul 24, 2019, 09:07:21 AM
Best solution.
Also Alien 3 looks more like the sequel of Alien.
Indeed.
Meh, I like that Alien 3 comes after Aliens. Ripley's death is one of my favourite moments of the franchise, both thematically and visually.
Yeah, I like the way her story ends.
Better to tell her story and end it, than have it become the kind of neverending story that, for example, the Die Hard franchise has become, where McClain and his family run into terrorists every two years wherever they are.
Getting bad enough with Amanda in the comics. When Alien3 prevented Ripley from having that fate, even more reason to like Alien3 :P
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 24, 2019, 02:21:07 AM
And Alien 4 could have been the Adventures of Hix & Noot like everyone wanted.
Correction: Hix, Noot and Riplee Ate.
Quote from: Kradan on Jul 24, 2019, 06:32:52 AM
Now I wonder isn't Hicks suited more for the role of PredKiller? He's marine and has military training, right?
He had enough trouble with Aliens he could actually see.
It should have been Turk on that pod.
Poor ol' Turk.
He was a brave little space ranger.
Quote from: Huggs on Jul 24, 2019, 03:50:36 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Jul 24, 2019, 06:32:52 AM
Now I wonder isn't Hicks suited more for the role of PredKiller? He's marine and has military training, right?
He had enough trouble with Aliens he could actually see.
Ehhh, that was mostly situational. He seemed to just fine in the ops center battle. Not saying Hicks could singe handedly kill a predator mind you.
Spoiler
Considering Hicks is still alive though maybe it'll happen one day :laugh:
If Randy Pitchfork has anything to say about it, yes.
Hicks Vs Predator? Greenlight it!
Let's de-age the entire Aliens cast and put them in the jungle vs a predator. Throw that $$$$$ around.
Then swap in Ol' Painless in the tunnel instead of the sentry guns.
I don't know about Hicks, but we should all feel comforted that Newt is alive and well.
(https://i.ibb.co/fqt7dmY/Screenshot-20190101-034732.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/k5qG7dp/Screenshot-20190101-034748.jpg)
Yeesh.
Honestly after reading the original Aliens series, reading William Gibson's Alien 3, enduring ACM and hearing about The Predator's cut ending-
I'm very satisfied with the way
the characters deaths happened.
But....damn. That's a good point lol.
I certainly thought so, I immensely,
prefer the story we got.
I wonder what contrived nonsense they would have invented to justify adult Newt being uniquely qualified to kill predators.
If only we knew someone that worked at Fox to ask people there.
Resurrection. Time travel. Oh please, someone get the real story behind the madness of these unused endings and make a documentary. It might turn out to be the most fascinating thing we have ever watched!
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 25, 2019, 04:32:44 PM
Oh please, someone get the real story behind the madness of these unused endings
Absolutely. There has to be an hilarious explanation.
Newt getting trained in the ways of the predator Machiko Noguchi style and then turning on them? Ripley 8 getting recruited by the aliens to fight predators alongside them?
Everything is possible now :P
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jul 25, 2019, 04:48:00 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 25, 2019, 04:32:44 PM
Oh please, someone get the real story behind the madness of these unused endings
Absolutely. There has to be an hilarious explanation.
Newt getting trained in the ways of the predator Machiko Noguchi style and then turning on them? Ripley 8 getting recruited by the aliens to fight predators alongside them?
Everything is possible now :P
Oh you know you want to see that movie now! :D
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 25, 2019, 05:06:34 PM
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jul 25, 2019, 04:48:00 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 25, 2019, 04:32:44 PM
Oh please, someone get the real story behind the madness of these unused endings
Absolutely. There has to be an hilarious explanation.
Newt getting trained in the ways of the predator Machiko Noguchi style and then turning on them? Ripley 8 getting recruited by the aliens to fight predators alongside them?
Everything is possible now :P
Oh you know you want to see that movie now! :D
Some strange masochistic side in me sure wants to :D
Quote from: razeak on Jul 25, 2019, 03:14:58 AM
Hicks Vs Predator? Greenlight it!
Let's de-age the entire Aliens cast and put them in the jungle vs a predator. Throw that $$$$$ around.
Then swap in Ol' Painless in the tunnel instead of the sentry guns.
That would still be miles better than The Predator, who attempted to bring Newt of all people in as a "Predator Killer".
As much as I like a handful of scenes in The Predator, as outlandish and campy as it is, ACM and it's DLC have a better story.
I admit to be biased because I don't like Alien 3, it has like 3 redeeming factors but thats really it in my book.
When it comes to Hicks being alive thanks to ACM, as iffy as it was done, I'm ok with it. It's not like it'll be used in any other medium ever again.
I still think the best way for Hicks to have gone out if he did show up in the movie though would have been taking Dillons place in the lead works.
lol ACM is a garbage fire, critically and commercially, with funding stolen by magician (alleged) pedophile
Gearbox CEO Randy Pitchford. And it put an entire studio out of business. It's a stain on the Alien Franchise.
Randy said it would make Alien 3 a better movie though. (https://www.pcgamesn.com/randy-pitchford-after-consuming-narrative-portion-aliens-colonial-marines-alien-3-becomes-better-movie)
Randy Pitchford is indeed a pretty good magician. He makes hopes and dreams disappear and can spew pure bullsh*t from his own mouth.
He is also pretty good at letting money disappear and beeing an all around tw*t. Quite the talent.
I can't imagine anyone reasonable defending the man, game or story.
Local could. He's the Perry Mason of the Gearbox world.
Well, he
did give us Turk.
Spoiler
Just sayin'.
See the point I was trying to make was ACM was a better story than The Predator
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Jul 25, 2019, 08:40:06 PM
See the point I was trying to make was ACM was a better story than The Predator
Better is such a
strong word.
not in this context, ACM doesn't butcher things quite as much as The Predator does.
Spoiler
but what do I know :P
More just that it's too kind a word. "Less awful" might be more appropriate.
I'll give you that
I'll take your side on this. To me also, I can stomach A:CM's crazy story and execution a lot more then The Predator's one.
ACM's "story" might be the nadir of the franchise. Possibly even over Requiem.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 25, 2019, 09:13:04 PM
ACM's "story" might be the nadir of the franchise. Possibly even over Requiem.
They're both a complete mess (ACM and The Predator), but I'd lean towards The Predator damaging its respective franchise more, on a conceptual level, since it's not only stupid but totally changes the entire point. ACM just shoehorns things in for nostalgia in ways that make no sense, but it doesn't negate its own premise.
You mean The Predator?
Quote from: Huggs on Jul 25, 2019, 11:55:18 PM
You mean The Predator?
Yes, post edited. I think I'm doing pretty well at posting through a severe fever though.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jul 26, 2019, 12:10:38 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Jul 25, 2019, 11:55:18 PM
You mean The Predator?
Yes, post edited. I think I'm doing pretty well at posting through a severe fever though.
Sorry to hear you're sick. Feel better.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jul 26, 2019, 12:10:38 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Jul 25, 2019, 11:55:18 PM
You mean The Predator?
Yes, post edited. I think I'm doing pretty well at posting through a severe fever though.
I hope you didn't get stabbed by a Morgul-blade. :(
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 25, 2019, 09:13:04 PM
ACM's "story" might be the nadir of the franchise. Possibly even over Requiem.
I think if you're able to ignore the ridiculous premise, marines shooting Aliens on a crashing Sulaco is much more exciting than anything in Requiem.
Quote from: SM on Jul 26, 2019, 12:35:22 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 25, 2019, 09:13:04 PM
ACM's "story" might be the nadir of the franchise. Possibly even over Requiem.
I think if you're able to ignore the ridiculous premise, marines shooting Aliens on a crashing Sulaco is much more exciting than anything in Requiem.
Bingo. And I'd classify both as "pointless, confused, etc" while a lot seem to see them as actively insulting - which may imo have more to do with the idea of canon than (a lack of) quality.
ACM at least brought us 3 cool alien types. I like the design of the WY commandos.
Yeah, I really like the Mercs. That and (most of) the weapons are where ACM actually did good.
I generally found the weapons pretty lame and just stick to the bog standard pulse rifle (with the little red light).
Quote from: SM on Jul 26, 2019, 06:31:45 AM
I generally found the weapons pretty lame and just stick to the bog standard pulse rifle (with the little red light).
Aesthetically.
From memory i pretty much only ever used the pulse rifle and occasionally the smg.
Yeah some of them looked okay - but you can't really see them while you're playing.
And there was some upgrade to the pulse rifle - that made it not sound like a pulse rifle anymore. ???
The engine was a bit of a turd, but that art department at least cared about making things fit with what we had already seen.
Quote from: SM on Jul 26, 2019, 12:35:22 AMI think if you're able to ignore the ridiculous premise, marines shooting Aliens on a crashing Sulaco is much more exciting than anything in Requiem.
The trouble I had was that the entire set up of
ACM was nonsensical. Secret W-Y military base on LV-426, yet everything is covered in the W-Y logo. Taking the Sulaco back there for no reason, literally leading the USCM to your door. Keeping Hicks around for interrogation despite the fact you clearly know a hell of a lot more about the Alien than he ever did. I could go on and on, but there's really no level on which that game's story stands up to scrutiny. The
hysterically awful contrivance it pulled to resurrect Hicks was just the cherry on the turd cake.
Requiem may be ass (I literally hate that film) but even so I still think it stands up better to inspection on its own terms.
All of ACM's faults, as ridiculous as some of them are (I have a particular problem with PMC's wearing white armor) are still better than putting aliens in a suburb imo
And putting them in a suburb is better than putting them in a colony that we were literally told got completely vaporised :P
hey, I admit it's faults lol. Its by no means logical and is only fan service
For me AVP:R is the bigger disgrace, because I hold the film medium to a slightly higher level of expectation. Film doesn't have players actively mucking about the environment. I'll take the colony surviving over that terrible Predalien design, teen drama, and warrior pizza delivery boys any day. It's easier to lie to myself about why the colony is there (most of the energy went up lol).
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 26, 2019, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: SM on Jul 26, 2019, 12:35:22 AMI think if you're able to ignore the ridiculous premise, marines shooting Aliens on a crashing Sulaco is much more exciting than anything in Requiem.
The trouble I had was that the entire set up of ACM was nonsensical. Secret W-Y military base on LV-426, yet everything is covered in the W-Y logo. Taking the Sulaco back there for no reason, literally leading the USCM to your door. Keeping Hicks around for interrogation despite the fact you clearly know a hell of a lot more about the Alien than he ever did. I could go on and on, but there's really no level on which that game's story stands up to scrutiny. The hysterically awful contrivance it pulled to resurrect Hicks was just the cherry on the turd cake.
Requiem may be ass (I literally hate that film) but even so I still think it stands up better to inspection on its own terms.
I'm simply talking in terms of spectacle.
I love that this turned into a "which is worse?" contest. So I'll give my personal list, from top to bottom:
AVP:R - ridiculous, bad setting, like very bad setting but I find fun moments personally, some cool Alien on Predator action even though the Aliens weren't treated with respect. Except that Aliens on Earth in the present day in a town, nothing too lore breaking. That's a plus.
A:CM - even more ridiculous, but I don't completely hate it cause it's a game and not a movie, basically all the reasons HuDaFuK has given, but I did enjoy the story DLC somewhat and I had a blast with the multiplayer while it was still alive. Bug Hunt is also fun, spent many hours of my life with this game. That's why I'll call it trash, but fun trash. The Hicks thing was trash, though the Turk gag we got out of it is worth it. Sci Fi settings are cool, the atmosphere was nice, but the Sulaco, Hicks and Hadley's Hope was lore breaking. Can't take it seriously canon.
The Predator - I'm not even gonna repeat all the problems I had with it, but in short. I had no fun in watching it and have no desire to rewatch it which is a first for me. Kinda/almost lore breaking stuff, the retcon they tried was almost insulting and that legendary ending with it's now infamous alternative versions were hilarious and oh so sad at the same time.
Of course, just my opinion riddled with personal biases.
ACM is infinitely more insulting, in my opinion- although- just as Requiem's positive is Wolf's design and weaponry, the situation's identical as the Colonial Marine design development itself is good, as is the weaponry.
And The Predator's got the Fugitive.
And AvPR has egg-barfing.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 28, 2019, 02:48:59 AM
And AvPR has egg-barfing.
is that really a good quality though?
Kind of just a ham fisted attempt at something under the umbrella of body horror
Quote from: The Old One on Jul 28, 2019, 02:42:39 AM
ACM is infinitely more insulting, in my opinion- although- just as Requiem's positive is Wolf's design and weaponry, the situation's identical as the Colonial Marine design development itself is good, as is the weaponry.
And The Predator's got the Fugitive.
Could I ask you to elaborate how something being shitty is personally insulting? Not being cheeky, I legit don't get it.
It's insulting to my intelligence thinking I'll buy it's nonsense. + pre-release lies + Gearbox profiting.
Does that include it making Alien 3 a better movie?
Quote from: SiL on Jul 24, 2019, 08:57:35 AM
Now I want to see if you can edit Alien3 as a sequel to Alien...
Hey, give it a couple years, it could be possible!
Deepfake technology is going to mean enthusiasts will not be limited to released footage only, such as existing scenes that get rearranged, BTS material, deleted scenes, etc. I've never made one myself, but can easily imagine being frustrated by numerous little extra shots (and even whole scenes) that would suit my re-edit but just don't exist. A few more years perfecting deepfake tech (especially its ease of use) and the ready access of face and voice replacements will mean a whole new level of fidelity in remaking your favourite film just the way you want.
At that stage the studios may have to rethink turning a blind eye to what ever shows up on YouTube.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F2mwz_cnAIk
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3vHvOyZ0GbY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DWK_iYBl8cA
TC
I would argue A:CM kept some of the spirit of the franchise. It had a few genuine franchise moments. It's a poor game regardless. AVP:R was a teen slasher flick.
But overall, yeesh. No thank you.
I think you just don't like Turk.
I don't acknowledge the character's existence. lol
It's good Turk isn't canon or his feelings would get hurt by this, I'm sure.
I'm certainly glad of it.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Jul 29, 2019, 12:32:50 PM
It's good Turk isn't canon or his feelings would get hurt by this, I'm sure.
If he was Canon he couldn't feel squat. ;D
If Hicks really died in Alien 3, doesn't that mean Turk is still alive?
I doubt it. He probably just got facehugged or fell into a trash compactor or something. Fate wants him dead. :laugh:
I think you're correct.
Quote from: Huggs on Aug 02, 2019, 12:48:59 AM
Quote from: Still Collating... on Jul 29, 2019, 12:32:50 PM
It's good Turk isn't canon or his feelings would get hurt by this, I'm sure.
If he was Canon he couldn't feel squat. ;D
Oh right! :laugh:
But he lives on... in my heart... :P
But not in my head or my heart, as much as possible.
He got hit solidly by Stone.
I think Michael Biehn would feel better if Newt and Hicks survived.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 03, 2019, 12:27:07 AM
I think Michael Biehn would feel better if Newt and Hicks survived.
where the hell is that con video of him saying "F*** Alien 3" when I need it...
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Aug 03, 2019, 01:11:03 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 03, 2019, 12:27:07 AM
I think Michael Biehn would feel better if Newt and Hicks survived.
where the hell is that con video of him saying "F*** Alien 3" when I need it...
Must have been before ACM fixed it.
I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when Randy pitched ACM to Biehn.
It probably sounded amazing.
Biehn: "Didn't my character die in Alien 3?"
Randy: "Nevermind about that. We've got Turk."
Lmao, pathetic.
Ya'll keep talking trash about mah boi Turk
Had they have survived I'd have believed the scope of the films would have been wider and we would have probably gotten more action set pieces.
So I think it really depends on whether you were an Aliens fan or not.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 03, 2019, 03:30:58 PM
Had they have survived I'd have believed the scope of the films would have been wider and we would have probably gotten more action set pieces.
So I think it really depends on whether you were an Aliens fan or not.
That's the fallout coz of people's perceptions of it all. Alien 3 was an end for Ripley and the rest, it's just the (stupid) opinion that you can't have Alien without Sigourney that prevented a wider scope.
I wonder what's going through Biehn's mind at this point. First he was hired to voice Hicks in ACM, then he was hired to voice Hicks in the audiobook of Gibson's Alien 3. Not to mention all the buzz about Blomkamp's project bringing him back.
It must be frustrating to know there's a real demand for Hicks to return, only to see the years go by and nothing come of it.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 03, 2019, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 03, 2019, 03:30:58 PM
Had they have survived I'd have believed the scope of the films would have been wider and we would have probably gotten more action set pieces.
So I think it really depends on whether you were an Aliens fan or not.
That's the fallout coz of people's perceptions of it all. Alien 3 was an end for Ripley and the rest, it's just the (stupid) opinion that you can't have Alien without Sigourney that prevented a wider scope.
We have Alien without Sigourney and people moan about that too.
Is that why we got The Endless Adventures of Amanda Ripley?
No, we get them because she's a popular character.
Quote from: SM on Aug 03, 2019, 10:20:24 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 03, 2019, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 03, 2019, 03:30:58 PM
Had they have survived I'd have believed the scope of the films would have been wider and we would have probably gotten more action set pieces.
So I think it really depends on whether you were an Aliens fan or not.
That's the fallout coz of people's perceptions of it all. Alien 3 was an end for Ripley and the rest, it's just the (stupid) opinion that you can't have Alien without Sigourney that prevented a wider scope.
We have Alien without Sigourney and people moan about that too.
Now we do, but the 90's was the time to branch out with that, right after 3. There was a golden opportunity to do something different back then and Rez f**ked it up by being a contrivance to get Ripley back rather than just doing something else with the creatures and setting.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 10, 2018, 12:10:30 AM
At least Alien 3 left all the worldbuilding intact...then Alien Resurrection flushed it all down the toilet.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 03, 2019, 10:41:19 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 10, 2018, 12:10:30 AM
At least Alien 3 left all the worldbuilding intact...then Alien Resurrection flushed it all down the toilet.
I genuinely enjoy the finished product. But as a basic concept, it's lazy and completely unnecessary.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 03, 2019, 10:11:44 PM
I wonder what's going through Biehn's mind at this point. First he was hired to voice Hicks in ACM, then he was hired to voice Hicks in the audiobook of Gibson's Alien 3. Not to mention all the buzz about Blomkamp's project bringing him back.
It must be frustrating to know there's a real demand for Hicks to return, only to see the years go by and nothing come of it.
Now you are making me feel sorry for the guy. All that teasing with no payoff can't be good in the long term.
Quote from: SM on Aug 03, 2019, 10:28:16 PM
No, we get them because she's a popular character.
I don't see it. People liked Isolation for the game mechanics not Amanda. You could replace its main character with even Turk and it would still get a thumbs up. From what I remember at first people didn't like the idea of Amanda being on the game but then got over it due to how good the game was.
You're not obliged to "see it".
You really think the character of Amanda Ripley is popular? Even among the fanbase I see mostly indifference towards her. I don't think I ever saw an Amanda fanboy. People care more about a game like Isolation than whatever happened to her afterwards.
Are those comics selling that well? How about Blackout? You got to have something more than Isolation's positive reception to say that.
As much as I think the prequels suck, I'll at least give Ridley credit for not trying to connect them to Ripley in some contrived way.
Don't say that before he is finished with them.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 03, 2019, 11:05:11 PM
Don't say that before he is finished with them.
Yeah, he seems pretty open to being influenced by those around him. If some go getter talks him into a Ripley link over a pint we'll wind up with one. Which would definitely sour me on the prequels.
Either that or the usual "it was mandated by the studio" thing.
Ugh, absolutely.
You just know that Ripley's mom will be the one who foils David's plot to eradicate humanity.
Could be Ripley herself. Her memory just needs to be wiped before the events on Alien and everything will still make sense. It worked with Out of Shadows... right? RIGHT? :P
I hope Fox is paying attention and taking notes. We're throwing pearls at them in this thread.
I wouldn't say as much lol.
Who threw the time traveling, Predator killer Ripley pearl? ;D
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/47582371_343459419571377_1678431481132215546_n.jpg)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 03, 2019, 11:40:40 PM
Who threw the time traveling, Predator killer Ripley pearl? ;D
I'm pretty sure they hired this kid to write that movie.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 03, 2019, 11:00:45 PM
You really think the character of Amanda Ripley is popular? Even among the fanbase I see mostly indifference towards her. I don't think I ever saw an Amanda fanboy. People care more about a game like Isolation than whatever happened to her afterwards.
Are those comics selling that well? How about Blackout? You got to have something more than Isolation's positive reception to say that.
No, I don't.
I know a Amanda Ripley fanatic,
one on Tumblr, but only the one.
Ripley's got nothing to do with Isolation's popularity.
Amanda Ripley or otherwise.
Isn't Amanda Ripley on par with Commander Shepard?
You already know the answer is no.
Gold. lol
Amanda Ripley was fine as a character. She's no deeper or shallow than her mom was after the first movie.
People also have the tendency to insert their selves into every fps character regardless of whether or not the character is male/female or what color race it is.
Vs 3rd person where everybody remembers Joel/Ellie, Nathan Drake, or Lara Croft.
Shepard could be a little different if you changed the character to reflect you at the beginning of the game, or whether or not you left him/her standard. And the fact they had three games to develop the character in.
I really don't mind they are taking Ripley jr and running with her because she was the only face to latch onto to sell the EU media outside of Zulu.
They did the same thing with Ripley, Newt, and Hicks in the 80's.
You don't NEED those characters to sell everything, in theory you should be able to sell your product without linking back to other products in the series.............but it is a whole lot easier if you do.
They tried their own original characters in that mediocre aliens/predators/prometheus crossover and everybody really enjoyed that......
People don't care for Fire and Stone because it's nonsense, not because the main character isn't a relation of Ellen Ripley, otherwise I agree. Plenty of A/P stories prospered without nostalgic emulation. (TCF for one.)
The most major criticism of the Titan Alien novel Trilogy I hear apart from tonal dissonance and telepathy, is the forced inclusion of Ripley/Ripley related people.
They got Amanda in a more believable way. I kind of see it.
If she had feelers out there looking for her mom, I could see that she could follow them back to the exact same end point. To me that makes sense. If you sleuth well enough, it would lead back to the same conclusion.
But again, given her character development you could've put any other random person in and done the same thing.
Amanda just didn't bother me one way or the other.
Where were you when you played Isolation?
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 04, 2019, 09:37:44 PM
They got Amanda in a more believable way. I kind of see it.
If she had feelers out there looking for her mom, I could see that she could follow them back to the exact same end point. To me that makes sense. If you sleuth well enough, it would lead back to the same conclusion.
But again, given her character development you could've put any other random person in and done the same thing.
Amanda just didn't bother me one way or the other.
Searching for and finding the flight recorder wouldn't have had the same impact if it was just some rando.
I was very against them using Amanda when Isolation was announced, but did a 180 once the game came out and I saw how they handled it.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 05, 2019, 12:08:19 AM
Where were you when you played Isolation?
UK.
Quote from: SM on Aug 05, 2019, 01:50:25 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 04, 2019, 09:37:44 PM
They got Amanda in a more believable way. I kind of see it.
If she had feelers out there looking for her mom, I could see that she could follow them back to the exact same end point. To me that makes sense. If you sleuth well enough, it would lead back to the same conclusion.
But again, given her character development you could've put any other random person in and done the same thing.
Amanda just didn't bother me one way or the other.
Searching for and finding the flight recorder wouldn't have had the same impact if it was just some rando.
I was very against them using Amanda when Isolation was announced, but did a 180 once the game came out and I saw how they handled it.
Yes but I can buy Amanda actually wanting to find the flight recorder.
Even though you could say some corporate person could have just as easily.
I still have a hard time believing a flight recorder survived that blast. Unless it was jettisoned early as an automated function included in the self destruct program.
I don't see why something like that wouldn't happen.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 05, 2019, 01:54:34 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 05, 2019, 12:08:19 AM
Where were you when you played Isolation?
UK.
You certainly get around. Was that during leave?
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 05, 2019, 01:54:34 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 05, 2019, 01:50:25 AMSearching for and finding the flight recorder wouldn't have had the same impact if it was just some rando.
I was very against them using Amanda when Isolation was announced, but did a 180 once the game came out and I saw how they handled it.
Yes but I can buy Amanda actually wanting to find the flight recorder.
Even though you could say some corporate person could have just as easily.
Or a friend/relative of any of the other Nostromo crewmembers. It's a false dilemma to say it
had to be either a Ripley or a rando.
Hell, they could have conceptualized Zula as a Parker (for example).
No one suggested it had to be an either/ or.
I know you didn't, but it seemed worth mentioning that there were five other people on the Nostromo who may have had family as haunted about their fate as Amanda was about her mother's.
Even the science officer that Ash replaced would have been an interesting alternative.
But it's the surviving member, so I give it a certain amount of flexibility regarding the scenario.
It's purely Theatrical and not realistic, and it worked- unbelievably.
I also think choosing a different protagonist would have given them more creative flexibility. After all, we know from Aliens that Amanda lives through it all (unless Fox intends on retconning that).
Are you holding out for a return of Christopher Winter?
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 03, 2019, 11:40:40 PM
Who threw the time traveling, Predator killer Ripley pearl? ;D
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/47582371_343459419571377_1678431481132215546_n.jpg)
OK guys, it's time for a consensus. Which unused Ripley concept do you like best? Black's idea or Blomkamp's idea?
(https://i.imgur.com/QXZL2zD.jpg)
Time travel is far more reasonable of the two crazy ideas now. They did the hybrid stuff in resurrection already. Nevertheless,
#EllenRipleyisdead
Neill B.
Blomkamp is alright, District 9 is still the bees knees, but NOBODY should wear any kind of helmet like that in any Alien movie ever.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 05, 2019, 02:42:34 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 05, 2019, 01:54:34 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 05, 2019, 12:08:19 AM
Where were you when you played Isolation?
UK.
You certainly get around. Was that during leave?
The University of Kentucky. I was back in the States when it was released.
Sigourney Weaver looks younger in that concept art. I bet they could de-age her for Alien 5 like they just did with Robert De Niro in Scorsese's "The Irishman." That way she can be the Ripley we all remember and love. I'd much rather prefer that to the woman who literally played "Grandma" in A Monster Calls.
I'd rather she played her age.
If you want the Ripley we all know and love - there's a bunch of movies all 20+ years old to watch.
Quote from: SM on Aug 03, 2019, 10:20:24 PM
We have Alien without Sigourney and people moan about that too.
But that's to do with the quality of said entries. It's nothing to do with a lack of Sigourney.
Quote from: SM on Aug 05, 2019, 01:50:25 AM
Searching for and finding the flight recorder wouldn't have had the same impact if it was just some rando.
I was very against them using Amanda when Isolation was announced, but did a 180 once the game came out and I saw how they handled it.
Likewise. I absolutely hated the idea of Amanda being used as a main character but once I experienced the game, I had turned around completely. Sure, a lot of it had to do with how effective the game itself was as a game, but that emotional connection to the story through Amanda was a huge part of it.
Even I was choked up when she finally came across the flight recorder and that extra message.
Quote from: Huggs on Aug 05, 2019, 01:58:08 AM
I still have a hard time believing a flight recorder survived that blast. Unless it was jettisoned early as an automated function included in the self destruct program.
That is the point of them after all. To survive.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 05, 2019, 03:02:58 AM
I also think choosing a different protagonist would have given them more creative flexibility. After all, we know from Aliens that Amanda lives through it all (unless Fox intends on retconning that).
Honestly, at this point, I can quite easily buy the whole thing about her records not actually being accurate or simply Burke lying.
QuoteBut that's to do with the quality of said entries. It's nothing to do with a lack of Sigourney
Which just goes to show that the 'no more Ripley' argument doesn't mean you're going to get anything necessarily better.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 05, 2019, 08:09:44 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 05, 2019, 03:02:58 AMI also think choosing a different protagonist would have given them more creative flexibility. After all, we know from Aliens that Amanda lives through it all (unless Fox intends on retconning that).
Honestly, at this point, I can quite easily buy the whole thing about her records not actually being accurate or simply Burke lying.
Nothing would surprise me at this point. Maybe she winds up being a Predator killer.
Quote from: SM on Aug 05, 2019, 09:42:18 AM
QuoteBut that's to do with the quality of said entries. It's nothing to do with a lack of Sigourney
Which just goes to show that the 'no more Ripley' argument doesn't mean you're going to get anything necessarily better.
True. Can't deny that. But I think it's also fair to say that the entries that have included Ripley lately have done so at the stories own detriment. It's safer to not throw her in there for the sake of the name/character.
Does that include Alan Decker?
I wouldn't say that was one of Sea of Sorrow's problems, personally.
I would, the blood recognising, telepathy and descendant aspects eradicate my suspension of disbelief.
I still maintain all those things would've worked a lot better if he'd been descended from the Ripley clone rather than O.G. Rippers.
Telepathy is a thing now? :laugh:
Yeah, part of why I don't consider the novel Trilogy part of continuity.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 05, 2019, 02:02:00 PM
I still maintain all those things would've worked a lot better if he'd been descended from the Ripley clone rather than O.G. Rippers.
Oh I completely agree 100%. It would have worked far better. But that said, this kind of mental connection has been a part of the franchise since the 80s so it didn't feel out of place to me at all. Pretty sure it wasn't straight telepathy though, but empathic.
Perhaps it is, I last read it upon release alongside the others and obviously don't care for it, but I also agree.
The clone connection
is much more sensible.
For the storyline, abilities and the tone of the novel,
Or no inclusion of any connection for all three novels is also a solution.