Disney's Plans Regarding Alien 5?

[JungleHunter87]

Both characters clearly go through an arc.

In what way?

I already stated why they have arcs. If you don't agree. That's cool, I refuse to answer the same question fifty times.

We just find out more about them, but they don't actually change from the start of the story to their deaths.

Obviously we don't agree. I see no further need kicking a dead horse.

It's like Burke in Aliens.

No, it's not. That's a false equivalency, Dallas didn't change by revealing his true motivations same for Parker.

No.  She is very by-the-book, follows orders, elects to continue with Dallas' plan, etc. until she finds out about the Special Order.  After that she quite obviously changes.  She decides to go with Lambert's previously rejected idea about abandoning ship.  It's all about survival from that point.

I stated she was by the book. She doesn't always follow orders see: letting Kane in after Dallas ORDERS her too. She argues with Dallas about Ash and his seemingly taking the science officer's side. In a clear cut case of quarantine procedure that also undercut her place as Warrant Officer (third in command) when both Dallas and Kane are off ship. Which is why I said she " challenges authority ". None of that changes through the rest of the film.

As for the last part, yes she changes gears toward a scorched earth policy as do Parker and Lambert after hearing Ash's little speech. But the game was always survival, once Brett was taken into the vents.

[SM]

I've yet to see you post anything that's transformative about Dallas and Parker.  The guys we see when they die were always those guys.

In this scene you've quoted:

" It happens because that's what the Company wants to happen"
" Standard procedure is to do what the hell they tell you to do"- Dallas

Dallas also orders Ripley to take off despite her telling him the repairs weren't finished.  Doesn't exactly scream 'Company drone'.  He wants to do his job with the least amount of fuss and get paid at the end of it.

No, it's not. That's a false equivalency, Dallas didn't change by revealing his true motivations same for Parker.

More is revealed to the audience about Burke, Dallas and Parker throughout the story - but they don't change.

I stated she was by the book. She doesn't always follow orders see: letting Kane in after Dallas ORDERS her too.

As clearly stated in the film, Ripley was senior officer and legally obliged to have them wait for 24 hours for decontamination. Dallas tries to get her to break the law, and Ash outright does it.

Ripley doesn't challenge authority; she appeals to a higher authority ie. laws and Company rules, when her superiors aren't following them.  Taking ones chances with three crew in a shuttle built for two in deep space, is not following the rules.  By this point however, the higher authority doesn't care if she lives or dies, so she throws out the rule book.

[JungleHunter87]

I've yet to see you post anything that's transformative about Dallas and Parker.

My post weren't meant too appease you. I stated my case, you weren't swayed. End of story.

Dallas also orders Ripley to take off despite her telling him the repairs weren't finished.  Doesn't exactly scream 'Company drone'.  He wants to do his job with the least amount of fuss and get paid at the end of it.

I would imagine his attitude at that specific moment was due to the fact he already broke company policy on quarantine. So what else has he got to lose? Still doesn't change the quote about how it's the company who make the rules and they follow. Nor does it change his prior actions of leading a team to an alien distress signal. Leading to his XO getting face hugged.

As clearly stated in the film, Ripley was senior officer and legally obliged to have them wait for 24 hours for decontamination. Dallas tries to get her to break the law, and Ash outright does it.

Okay now you're not even trying to read my post.

She doesn't always follow orders see: letting Kane in after Dallas ORDERS her too. She argues with Dallas about Ash and his seemingly taking the science officer's side. In a clear cut case of quarantine procedure that also undercut her place as Warrant Officer (third in command) when both Dallas and Kane are off ship. Which is why I said she " challenges authority ". None of that changes through the rest of the film.

Please re-read because you parroted what I already said. Plainly.

Ripley doesn't challenge authority; she appeals to a higher authority ie. laws and Company rules, when her superiors aren't following them.

So I should disregard her arguments with her superior (Dallas) on multiple occasions including in regards too Ash's authority over the Kane situation? Okay, I'll pretend those parts didn't happen.

Taking ones chances with three crew in a shuttle built for two in deep space, is not following the rules.  By this point however, the higher authority doesn't care if she lives or dies, so she throws out the rule book.

Thus challenging the authority by doing so.

[SM]

Nor does it change his prior actions of leading a team to an alien distress signal.

Is there a problem with those actions?

Please re-read because you parroted what I already said. Plainly.

You said "She doesn't always follow orders".  Dallas is in no position to order Ripley to defy quarantine.  He can't legally order her to do so, so his 'order' has no basis.  His order is null and void.  She is quite deliberately following quarantine orders and ignoring illegal interference.

So I should disregard her arguments with her superior (Dallas) on multiple occasions including in regards too Ash's authority over the Kane situation? Okay, I'll pretend those parts didn't happen.

The only reason she is challenging the Captain is because she believes he's not going by the rulebook.

Thus challenging the authority by doing so.

Exactly.  She changed from following the rules to saying 'f**k the rules'.

[JungleHunter87]

Is there a problem with those actions?

Well seeing as how the rest of the film panned out, I'd say so.

The only reason she is challenging the Captain is because she believes he's not going by the rulebook.

What she believes is neither here nor there. She is still challenging a figure of authority.

[Biomechanoid]

JungleHunter, I admire your patience.

[SM]

Well seeing as how the rest of the film panned out, I'd say so.

If he didn't follow the his contractual obligation to investigate the signal - he wouldn't get paid.

What she believes is neither here nor there. She is still challenging a figure of authority.

By appealing to a higher authority.  She's essentially saying 'I follow the rules and you have to as well.'

[JungleHunter87]

JungleHunter, I admire your patience.

Thanks?

If he didn't follow the his contractual obligation to investigate the signal - he wouldn't get paid.

Yes I realize that. However, because he did no one got paid.

By appealing to a higher authority.  She's essentially saying 'I follow the rules and you have to as well.'

Her moral compass or reasoning for arguing with a superior doesn't matter. The basic fact is she is challenging an authority figure by arguing with Dallas. The Captain of the ship, the buck begins and ends with him whilst on board the ship in space.

[OpenMaw]

Her moral compass or reasoning for arguing with a superior doesn't matter. The basic fact is she is challenging an authority figure by arguing with Dallas. The Captain of the ship, the buck begins and ends with him whilst on board the ship in space.

Well, no. Not if we're using real-world equivalents here. In most chains of command the SOP for following an illegal order is that you don't.

[JungleHunter87]

Her moral compass or reasoning for arguing with a superior doesn't matter. The basic fact is she is challenging an authority figure by arguing with Dallas. The Captain of the ship, the buck begins and ends with him whilst on board the ship in space.

Well, no. Not if we're using real-world equivalents here. In most chains of command the SOP for following an illegal order is that you don't.

The content of the argument was not in question. It was whether or not she was challenging authority. Which she was by arguing with a superior. In effect arguing with her boss. SOP for that is... you don't.

[Corporal Hicks]

The content of the argument was not in question. It was whether or not she was challenging authority. Which she was by arguing with a superior. In effect arguing with her boss. SOP for that is... you don't.

Unless, as previously stated, it's illegal. You don't do what your boss asks you if it's illegal.

[JungleHunter87]

The content of the argument was not in question. It was whether or not she was challenging authority. Which she was by arguing with a superior. In effect arguing with her boss. SOP for that is... you don't.

Unless, as previously stated, it's illegal. You don't do what your boss asks you if it's illegal.

That wasn't what we were debating. Firstly, she never complied with Dallas' illegal order. So that was never a problem. This has always been about whether or not Ripley's argument with Captain Dallas shows her as a character, challenging authority.

If that isn't clear, I apologize. I don't know how else I can explain my argument in a way that's any more concise.

[OpenMaw]

Except, that's the whole thing. She's not challenging authority. She's adhering to the letter of quarantine law. Dallas is the one challenging authority.

[JungleHunter87]

Except, that's the whole thing. She's not challenging authority. She's adhering to the letter of quarantine law. Dallas is the one challenging authority.

I finally see the miscommunication we've all been experiencing. The argument I've been talking about, is not the one in which Ripley rightfully refuses entry to Dallas and Co. . It's the Hallway, scene, where Dallas says " It happens my dear because that's what the company wants to happen ". Nothing illegal about this scenario, just Ripley challenging Dallas' decision in regards to Ash, getting the final say on what happens with the remains of the facehugger.

Thus we have an instance of Challenging Authority. I hope this clears the air. I apologize for not realizing this error sooner.

[BigDaddyJohn]

'Little House on the Planet'.

-Windebieste.

Hahaha excellent ! I can already picture a cute chestburster strolling and falling on a field !