Why the PREDATOR sequels get the face WRONG [Opinion Piece]

Started by bendinglight, Feb 21, 2021, 05:43:58 AM

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Why the PREDATOR sequels get the face WRONG [Opinion Piece] (Read 30,874 times)

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Trash Queen on Apr 08, 2021, 02:54:29 PM
I think them being strictly honourable just makes them predictable, in that respect it's exciting when they break "the rules" like a real life human hunter, deciding to switch to auto when their own safety's threatened.

Well, all bets are off when they activate their self destruct, that's for certain. :) But nothing to me is more predictable than a monster that kills everything.

That whole ending of Predator 2 - when after Harrigan kills one of their own - he's rewarded for it?  Nothing to me was more unpredictable than that moment, and is why I became such a fan, and realized there was so much more to these creatures! 

BlueMarsalis79

I didn't say they should just mindlessly kill everything.

But I don't think they're obligated to spare someone either.

I think that honestly, they act in terms of doing what's fun, or interesting more than anything else.

Mr.Turok

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 08, 2021, 02:47:10 PM
Solely in my own personal travels, my experiences, and my interactions alone, I've found this phenomena of people's desire to change the concept of Predator... the wanting to transform the creature from its core concept to these argh, kill, kill, kill psychopathic monsters... to be disproportional high among Alien fans that prefer the Alien monster first and foremost, but also have become Predator fans by nature of the two creatures' union. It's really interesting. So perhaps, just perhaps, there is something subconsciously inherent in many primary Alien fans and their love for that unrelenting kill kill kill type of monster that causes them to want to apply that appeal to Predators, to make them more personally enjoyable.

Who knows for certain. I'm sure much more intelligent people than me could analyze this, weigh all of it and determine its merits if any.  :)

Its the human experience, mainly the human projection that an outside force wants to invade and do harm to them as that is what we humans have done to others throughout human history. Especially here in the states, fear of invading communists that was ingrained in our minds since WWII, fear of the unknown that we see outside the depths of outer space a la H.P Lovecraft, leads to a possible alien invasion thanks to the conspiracy events of Area 51 and other supposed alien encounters from local populations. The U.S culture is deep rooted in fear of losing their freedom and fear of "invading" immigrants that is still rooted today as you can see with many of the political troubles we have here. Alien invasions is just one manifestation of this fear.

Its the same reason why I see Dutch's perspective on Predators very interesting and unique to fictional alien races overall, he would rather face the possibility of an alien invasion rather than being hunted as that simply relegates human beings to just game animals. We humans always seen ourselves the dominant race on the planet, the center of our own world that mastered this very Earth, so having an outside force not even seeing value in us as something worth conquering but to be hunted greatly demotes us to a position equal to that to the animals we used to hunt long ago, or even perhaps to cattle we raise for our consumption.

Which is why added to this sudden demoted rank of our place in the food chain, The Honor Code simply puts an interesting spin on the aliens coming to earth in that they do have thinking minds with different values that are that different from us, pure alien. Besides being a guiding principle that disciplines their life from indiscriminately killing anyone that would make it no different from any alien race in media, it has a reward system for their enemies. If one of us slays their kind, that individual is seen to be respected for taken down a fellow warrior, spared, and perhaps even honored with a gift from their elders. Its a strange set a rules that evades us but yet it is just to them, which sells a truly alien race with their own distinct culture. Its an alien race that does not want peace with us, but also does not wish war or invasion either. Its a unique set of values not seen in other media with aliens that makes the Predator stand out on its own and makes it a iconic character that we all know today.

Its also why I don't understand the whole "space samurai" comparison when historically samurai weren't exactly as honorable as people claimed as there are many many accounts in they were complete dicks to their lower class people such as testing new swords on criminals for the simple crime of thievery, testing their new weapon on innocent civilians even (known as tsujigiri), and even the carte blanche of killing anyone that insulted them because that's samurai privilege for ya. Rather they also have a mix of Viking and Mongol culture in them, a nomadic warrior-hunter people that live in tribes with similar practices like the practice of adopting others into their tribe when they see you as a worthy opponent, with a dash of Bushido code of honor from the Samurai. It all goes back to Keyes tapes on Predator Hunting Grounds where Predators live by a culture that humans left behind so long ago so in this way, Predators address old ways and thinking that we humans once have done in the past. Its a twist on the human perspective of an invading alien force but rather with a dash of warrior-hunter culture that many people used to live by themselves so long ago. Ruthless and bloodthirsty, yet not evil and even honorable? Complex just like us humans and all of human history, its a new take of our fears and reflection on us as well.

Oh and remember, the last time someone proposed Predators invading Earth, it ended up with them wanting to hunt kids for autism to make them stronger adapt to Earth better due to climate change or whatever so yeah, idk why yall still stick with that when someone already did your idea and it sucked major balls. 

BlueMarsalis79

Who sticks with that?




[cancerblack]

Let's not forget that a major plot point in the original and best AvP product is that the youngsters do start a massacre of mostly unarmed colonists literally the second their bossman gets KO'd. There's rules and an aspect of honour but like in any society, the teenagers and a few random assholes will totally ignore that stuff as soon as they think they can get away with it.

Mr.Turok

Quote from: [cancerblack] on Apr 08, 2021, 09:16:21 PM
Let's not forget that a major plot point in the original and best AvP product is that the youngsters do start a massacre of mostly unarmed colonists literally the second their bossman gets KO'd. There's rules and an aspect of honour but like in any society, the teenagers and a few random assholes will totally ignore that stuff as soon as they think they can get away with it.

Yeah like us humans, Predators have criminal and dark elements that want to crazy. I mean look no further to the Super Predators like the ones in Predators. If anything it does make them interesting and diverse, showing that Predator society have conflicts within like we do. Doesn't take away from my point at all.

Kradan

All of you who were pissed how autism was portrayed in The Predator should watch this:

Spoiler
[close]

Truly a hidden gem

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Mr.Turok on Apr 08, 2021, 11:56:59 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Apr 08, 2021, 09:16:21 PM
Let's not forget that a major plot point in the original and best AvP product is that the youngsters do start a massacre of mostly unarmed colonists literally the second their bossman gets KO'd. There's rules and an aspect of honour but like in any society, the teenagers and a few random assholes will totally ignore that stuff as soon as they think they can get away with it.

Yeah like us humans, Predators have criminal and dark elements that want to crazy. I mean look no further to the Super Predators like the ones in Predators. If anything it does make them interesting and diverse, showing that Predator society have conflicts within like we do. Doesn't take away from my point at all.

Yup to all of this!

Master

Immensely interesting thread! I'll share my insights as soon as I get sober  ;D

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Master on Apr 10, 2021, 07:51:39 PM
Immensely interesting thread! I'll share my insights as soon as I get sober  ;D



;D

BigDaddyJohn

One helluva hangover must've followed !  ;D

Mr.Turok

Quote from: Kradan on Apr 09, 2021, 09:26:49 AM
All of you who were pissed how autism was portrayed in The Predator should watch this:

Spoiler
[close]

Truly a hidden gem
I don't see how this film counters anything I said, rather strengthens my point in that how is it a good idea to write a story where Predators, powerful warrior/hunters who supposedly hunt the most dangerous beings in the universe for the thrill of the hunt, looks at a child that has a condition that they struggle with in their daily life such as having trouble reading social cues and decides that its cool to rip out that spinal cord?

In various spectrums of autism, its a diverse area where each individual will have their own unique issues they must face and overcome. I hear many people who have high function autism always being challenged if they actually do since they "look normal" while not only that belittles the struggles of high function autism but also implies that autism as a set look stereotype that is followed to the letter. I personally knew someone that was on the lowest end of the spectrum that my own mother once worked with when I was young and all that very sweet and shy kid wanted to do was have a happy life and play with his construction trucks. Due to various health issues that came along with it, doctors told the family he wouldn't last long but he lasted to 24. Sadly the last time I saw him was around 11 but I always heard from my mom that he was always doing his best. 

Yet somehow that film wanted me to be convinced that autism is a commodity to be weaponized by an alien race that will make them stronger somehow? Yeah I'm a keep dunking on the film for making such an idiotic statement. Autism doesn't make anyone any less or any more of a person, only to be loved and taken care of just like everyone else around here.

What I do want to ask of you Kradan is what is your take on the Predator's pursuit of autism, as I see your defense of the movie but never a in depth analysis? If you made such an analysis, I would love to read it and discuss this somewhere else as I don't want to clog this in another topic that is currently ongoing in this thread.


Kradan

Kradan

#132
I was not trying to argue anything you said previously. All I wanted to say was "Hey, people ! There's a great claymation cartoon you probably never heard of before . And it kinda deals with the same subject discussed here. Check it out ! ". Sorry for confusion

Regarding my defense of The Predator: is that movie flawed ? Hell yeah. Do I still like it ? Yes. Do I think It deserved amount of crap it got ? No.

As for movie's portrayal of autism: It doesn't bother me personally but I understand people who were offended by it. Though I think some people tend to over-blow that issue. As I see it, Upgrade Predator was one big really BAD Predator, who probably was a member of some rogue Bad Blood clan which wanted to modify their genes and take over the Earth. But he didn't represent species as a whole and there were Predators who weren't in agreement with him, one of which was Fugitive Predator. So it's not like "Well, now ALL of the Predators are after autism". The fact Fugitive had foreign DNA too I take as that he was captured by Bad Blood clan and used for experiments. That's why IMO he was so pissed waking up in that lab even though he was supposed to help humans - that was a case of Predator PTSD.

And I don't think Uprgrade was going for autism as a whole but for its positive aspects specifically as they were portrayed in the movie: super-memory, being able to figure out alien technology etc. He would've get rid off its disadavantages. One might say it's not how DNA works but whatever, I don't care - The Predator is not that kind of movie I would demand total scientific accuracy from.

I guess, movie would've been better off without autism stuff altogether. Rory should've been just a reallt smart kid, like wunderkind or something. I get what Shane Black was trying to do with it but it didn't work for many people 'cause it was portrayed as super-power and it was inconsistent.

Does all of that ^^^ require me to fill the gaps and explain stuff that should've been explained in the movie itself ? Yes, but I'm cool with it. And I don't have to tell you what a troubled production that movie had.

BigDaddyJohn

I wouldn't have said it better ! And to be fair the autism angle, while being quite bad, wasn't the biggest problem of this movie like it seems to be for a lot of people.

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 12, 2021, 11:09:22 PM
I wouldn't have said it better ! And to be fair the autism angle, while being quite bad, wasn't the biggest problem of this movie like it seems to be for a lot of people.

Now I'm curious.  :)  What was the biggest problem of the movie, from your perspective?

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