So, is Aliens still considered canon?

Started by armageddon, May 31, 2012, 07:36:41 AM

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So, is Aliens still considered canon? (Read 9,549 times)

Mastes1

Quote from: TimmyTurnersDad on May 31, 2012, 03:26:29 PM
Quote from: Mastes1 on May 31, 2012, 03:10:07 PMLindelof and Scott say a lot thing and maybe its just me but whats the point in setting the film in the same universe as Alien AND setting it before Alien if you're not going to finish the series leading into ALIEN?.
You may as well just do a completely new sci-fi series set in its own universe.

The term 'spin-off' seems to be a suitable answer to your first question, I think. For its reported faults, Prometheus at least seems to succeed in offering a new life for the overall ALIEN universe via exploring the Space Jockey/Engineer species, which to utilize in the film would in fact require the film/spin-off series to be set in the same overall universe as ALIEN.

I spent yesterday afternoon pondering over the potential that a sequel to Prometheus might have, and I have to say that I found it far more interesting than simply going back to LV-426 and fixating on one single Space Jockey. A bit egotistic of me, certainly, but the fact that a nineteen year old kid from North Carolina was capable of seeing a great potential for a spin-off means that (hopefully) there are others already involved understanding that potential and aiming to utilize it as well.

And honestly? I'd much rather that see that potential being explored and utilized than simply cater to the die-hard fans on what exactly happened to one particular corpse. We can figure out with our brains the most likely scenario for that poor fellow on LV-426, and we'd risk unleashing a horrid amount of stupidity becoming the new explanation for that corpse's story (i.e. it actually being a human underneath that fossilized suit) if it were to be made into a direct prequel film.
I didn't mean the whole plot of the final Promethues film will be based around LV-426 and the derelict because it won't, i do think that there will be a sub-plot though involving the drerelict and maybe even the final scene will be the derelict crashing onto the surface of LV-426 and then we have a few seconds of blackout then the camera comes back showing the Nostromo from behind moving slowly towards the gas giant system, then the film ends.

StrangeShape

Quote from: Valaquen on May 31, 2012, 10:54:08 AM
Quote from: escroto on May 31, 2012, 09:43:01 AM
in A L I E N the company clearly knew of the alien organism. The "distress" signal contained very clear details of the creature, and that's precisely why Ash did know too
Ridley Scott denied this completely. They didn't know: "This particular corporation didn't have any preconceived notion that an alien would be found on this mission, much less the particular alien that is brought onto the ship. The idea of bringing it back would not have been on the minds of the corporation executives when they first received the alien transmission. They just had high expectations when they ordered the Nostromo to investigate - it was purely out of curiosity."

This^. As for why the squad was so small, simple and implied in the movie, nobody believed Ripley to the end. It couldve been a transmitter. It was a small squad to investigate.Novelization goes further saying WY wanted to save up some cash. Again, WY didnt really know about aliens existence until Alien 3 when they got the data from Sulacos scanners. And then they immediately sent a whole warship with surgeons and precious designer on board to retrieve

It would make absolute no sense to send space truckers in an old oil rig to retrieve such special specimen. A ship like Prometheus or Patna wouldve been sent

TimmyTurnersDad

Quote from: Mastes1 on May 31, 2012, 03:46:49 PM
I didn't mean the whole plot of the final Promethues film will be based around LV-426 and the derelict because it won't, i do think that there will be a sub-plot though involving the drerelict and maybe even the final scene will be the derelict crashing onto the surface of LV-426 and then we have a few seconds of blackout then the camera comes back showing the Nostromo from behind moving slowly towards the gas giant system, then the film ends.

I see, my mistake then.  ;)

Just the same, from the spoilers I've come across for Prometheus, I already picked up on what could be a potential explanation for the Derelict's backstory, though I would have to see the movie myself to be sure if it's a valid theory.

Spoiler
Wouldn't it be possible that the Derelict's pilot was one of the Engineers on LV-223 and made an attempt to escape the breakout 2000 years ago that slaughtered everyone but the Last Engineer, only to be forced to land on LV-426 to deal with a bad case of indigestion, unaware that he had already been infected himself?
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Again, I would need to see the film myself to be sure if the theory is a valid one, but it seems to be a plausible explanation for fans wanting that answer and done in a subtle enough manner to appease the fans who don't want to know the exact details of the Derelict's past.  :)

jonc2006

jonc2006

#48
Quote from: StrangeShape on May 31, 2012, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on May 31, 2012, 10:54:08 AM
Quote from: escroto on May 31, 2012, 09:43:01 AM
in A L I E N the company clearly knew of the alien organism. The "distress" signal contained very clear details of the creature, and that's precisely why Ash did know too
Ridley Scott denied this completely. They didn't know: "This particular corporation didn't have any preconceived notion that an alien would be found on this mission, much less the particular alien that is brought onto the ship. The idea of bringing it back would not have been on the minds of the corporation executives when they first received the alien transmission. They just had high expectations when they ordered the Nostromo to investigate - it was purely out of curiosity."

This^. As for why the squad was so small, simple and implied in the movie, nobody believed Ripley to the end. It couldve been a transmitter. It was a small squad to investigate.Novelization goes further saying WY wanted to save up some cash. Again, WY didnt really know about aliens existence until Alien 3 when they got the data from Sulacos scanners. And then they immediately sent a whole warship with surgeons and precious designer on board to retrieve

It would make absolute no sense to send space truckers in an old oil rig to retrieve such special specimen. A ship like Prometheus or Patna wouldve been sent

Isn't there a scene that occurs earlier in Alien 3 where Riply gets 85 to request permission from the company to kill the xenomorph they managed to capture and it gets denied? I figured the second the company got that message they decided to get out there quick. 

Xenomorphine

It's also useful to keep in mind something Cameron factored into the start of his film: The insurance money. He even has an executive/government representative (can't remember which) point out a huge sum of money which is minus the payload which the ship was carrying.

The reason Weyland-Yutani or any of their competitors (or governments) haven't gone there is either because Dallas turns off the signal (possibly unlikely, since they were still exploring the ship before lowering Kane down and then were too preoccupied with getting him back to safety) or the seismic environmental damage deliberately put in the Jordans scene (keeping in mind that this could have happened at any time, even just a few hours or days after the Nostromo crew had departed). But the reason they hushed up the signal origin would have been mainly because of the insurance money and, of course, fear of criminal prosecution.

The latter actually has subtext in 'Aliens', depending on how you interpret Ripley threatening to prosecute Burke... It could be seen as a sort of analogy between Ripley and the company in general: He's in denial that he did anything knowingly wrong, but she cuts through his self-delusional BS and says she's going to make sure they "nail you right to the wall", forcing him to get desperate.

It's also possible that the warning signal might somehow be deliberately short-ranged. I've often wondered why a government didn't send someone out there, but if it was designed to purposefully degrade after a certain distance, then perhaps it was only picked up by a passing Weyland-Yutani vessel. One which was presumably either unmanned or unable to investigate (otherwise the clause Ash/Dallas mention would have come into effect).

This could possibly also explain why they only sent the Nostromo into the general area, rather than specifically over LV-426, itself: They might not have known the specifics of where the signal was originating. Just that a passing ship registered one being encountered and automatically logged it.

RoaryUK

RoaryUK

#50
The presence of Ash is proof enough the Company knew more about the transmission than they were telling, he was placed on board the Nostromo before the ship left Thedus, purposefully replacing another science officer, and had specific orders to "gather specimen and ensure return of organism for analysis". I've also wondered, if the ships computer was able to dicipher part of the alien transmission through Ripley, then it's reasonable to assume Company officials could too, but someone from the Company must have recieved it first or certain events in the film don't add up. What I think happened is the transmission was originally picked up by some nearby Company Waystation, they decipher enough for someone to think it was worth checking out. The Company arrange for Ash to join a group of Space Truckers who's route home takes them right by the transmission, instructing him to bring back something they believe to be dangerous but possibly valuable, and re-routing the ship so the crew are obliged to at least investigate it.     

Parker

The company may have thought that there was a good chance there was something worth bringing back.  They just didn't know what.

And a HyperDyne Systems Model 120-A/2 that was a little "twitchy" wouldn't hesitate to bring the specimen into the Nostromo, even if with the established quarantine laws. 

escroto

escroto

#52
"Nostromo rerouted to new co-ordinates

Investigate life form. Gather specimen

Priority one

insure return of organism

for analysis


All other considerations secondary blah blah blah"
________________________________________________

The company did f**king know of the alien. Period.

StrangeShape

Quote from: escroto on May 31, 2012, 05:33:20 PM
"Nostromo rerouted to new co-ordinates

Investigate life form. Gather specimen

Priority one

insure return of organism

for analysis


All other considerations secondary blah blah blah"
________________________________________________

The company did f**king know of the alien. Period.

Scott say otherwise. Logic says otherwise (they send trillion dollar expedition and then entire warship for one speciemen, they would sent truckers? Order came from Muthur, which worked with coordination with Ash

aliennaire

Quote from: Mastes1 on May 31, 2012, 03:10:07 PM
Lindelof and Scott say a lot thing and maybe its just me but whats the point in setting the film in the same universe as Alien AND setting it before Alien if you're not going to finish the series leading into ALIEN?.
You may as well just do a completely new sci-fi series set in its own universe.
I guess, Scott wanted to set new film just as much close in timeline to his original film as it was feasible without clashing with other series' films. For that matter Aliens is considered canon (moreover if you remember they used accurate or resembling equipment's designs from Aliens in the marketing materials).

However I do agree with Mastes1 about starting independent series could work out better than trying to use SJ's and all affiliated with this dead body images and basing new story here.

Predaker

Predaker

#55
They intercepted an alien signal, so they wanted to investigate the life form that sent it and get back a specimen/organism. Nothing in that order indicates they knew exactly what sort of lifeform to expect.

Edit: instead of an alien abduction, they wanted to abduct an alien. Lol

Valaquen

Quote"I think any corporation that sends probes into unknown territory is going to think of the possibility of finding something new. I'm sure that the crew members on all its ships would have been briefed to bring back anything of interest. It would be part of one's job to bring it back. An alien would, of course, be of top priority. This particular corporation didn't have any preconceived notion that an alien would be found on this mission, much less the particular alien that is brought onto the ship. The idea of bringing it back would not have been on the minds of the corporation executives when they first received the alien transmission. They just had high expectations when they ordered the Nostromo to investigate - it was purely out of curiosity."
Ridley Scott.
And that's that. Right from the director's mouth.

Considering this, the scenario in Alien would have went as thus: a Company "probe" discovers the Space Jockey signal. Nearby, the Nostromo is ready to leave the system Thedus. The ship's science officer is replaced by a "Company man," Ash, three days before take-off in order to ensure that the ship reroutes and investigates whatever lies at the heart of the extraterrestrial signal. Had the Company have known about the particular alien that is later found, then no doubt a combat unit (as seen in Alien 3) would have been clandestinely dispatched, rather than a crew of irate and clueless space truckers with a Company droid in tow. We can reconcile this with the 57 year gap of Company inactivity in Aliens - if the Company didn't know what they were looking for, and lost an expensive ship and crew due to their own machinations and fumbling, then the Nostromo incident would likely have been brushed away by whomever assigned Ash to the Nostromo. The events of Aliens and Alien 3 seem to open the Company's eyes to what exactly they are dealing with.

Snowdog

Think about it
huge prometheus spoilers in here
Spoiler
Weyland and Vickers both got killed. Shaw and David took off in a derelict to the engineers planet. so there is actually no one as of yet that knows about the engineers in particular. Does not interfere with Aliens at all. Big chance the company doesn't know what happened on LV223
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