Terminator Syndrome

[FreeFacehugz]

but at the same time T1 and T2 had to have happened for TG to have happened.

Its simply not possible for T2 to lead to Genisys.

It simply didnt reference T2. The T5000 prevented T2 from happeneing as part of the plot

...which is exactly what we are saying. T:G prevents all of T2-T4 from ever occurring as well as the majority of The first film.

PS. I dont consider "the producer said so" as a credible point when the movie speaks for itself.

I don't see why not.  Everything on screen supports what he said.

You've just cherry picked parts of my argument and givin the same poor answers as before and ignored the rest of what I've said lol. You really don't get the whole time travel as a plot device lending itself to changing timelines vs what a reboot actually is do you? Like talking to a brick wall so I'm just gonna stop. Anymore questions, refer to my previous post.

Also Blomkamp said this in an interview with Sky News...
"I want this film to feel like it's literally the genetic sibling of Aliens," said Blomkamp. "So it's Alien, Aliens, and then this movie".

[marrerom]

Sorry if I come off as obstinate, that's not my intent.   I'm simply tired of hearing how badly people have interpreted how Genisys relates to the rest of the series.  I give you a direct quote from the guy responsible for the film and you ignore it...

Also Blomkamp said this in an interview with Sky News...
"I want this film to feel like it's literally the genetic sibling of Aliens," said Blomkamp. "So it's Alien, Aliens, and then this movie".

Blomkamp has gone out of his way to say that he doesn't want to intentionally ignore alien 3 & 4 so I'm hopeful that his film will fit within the continuity of the established films.  Its too early to know for sure as he hasn't finished the script yet.  I do think that if he was going to reton the series that he would just say so and not tip-toe around the issue as he seems to be doing.

[Yahzee]

... if T2 happened, then there's no Judgement Day, therefore there's no Genisys, unless you selectively are saying that Terminator 3 did happened. By attempting to ignore "two" movies, Genisys actually ignored three and created a mess of a plot. Doesn't matter what the producer or Cameron (who had said before he liked Terminator 3) say, the story is there on the screen

Also, you selectively are ignoring the last thing Blomkamp said on the matter of "ignoring" Alien³ and Resurrection:

"I'm not trying to undo Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection," says Blomkamp. "My favorites are the first two movies. I want to make a film that's connected to Alien and Aliens. That's my goal."

So it's simple, he might try to follow some plot points of Aliens and still acknowledge all four movies. Or be an unimaginative fanboy who tries to explain away those movies as 'dreams' and add more marines and aliens instead of creating something unique.

[FreeFacehugz]

... if T2 happened, then there's no Judgement Day, therefore there's no Genisys, unless you selectively are saying that Terminator 3 did happened. By attempting to ignore "two" movies, Genisys actually ignored three and created a mess of a plot. Doesn't matter what the producer or Cameron (who had said before he liked Terminator 3) say, the story is there on the screen

Also, you selectively are ignoring the last thing Blomkamp said on the matter of "ignoring" Alien³ and Resurrection:

"I'm not trying to undo Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection," says Blomkamp. "My favorites are the first two movies. I want to make a film that's connected to Alien and Aliens. That's my goal."

So it's simple, he might try to follow some plot points of Aliens and still acknowledge all four movies. Or be an unimaginative fanboy who tries to explain away those movies as 'dreams' and add more marines and aliens instead of creating something unique.

Its explained in the movie why T2 wont happen. They destroy every part of the original T800 as opposed to the chip and arm being recovered by Cyberdyne. Again its part of the movie. Characters from T2 such as the Miles and Danny Dyson are also present in the movie in 2017 as well as the existence of the T-1000. Its this reference of T2's potential existence shows that they hadnt just ditched the idea of T2.

On the new Alien.
I guarantee he will ignore 3 and Resurrection. Him saying he's not "trying" to undo them does not mean he wont ignore them. He means he's not actively gonna write them off as dreams in the movie as it would be pretty silly. He's just gonna continue on from Aliens in his own Direction.

[marrerom]

Its this reference of T2's potential existence shows that they hadnt just ditched the idea of T2.

Dude, no one is saying that concepts (i.e. people, places, things) from T1 & T2 werent carried over into Genisys.  Most reboots include the core building blocks of their source material.  What Yazee is saying is that T2 (as well as T1, T3, and T4) doesn't share the same continuity as T:G, and he's correct.

[FreeFacehugz]

Holy shit. Its a movie dealing with changing continuity using time travel! How can you not tell the difference!

Man of Steal - Reboot
Total Recall - Reboot
Batman Begins - Reboot

Back to the Future 2 - Sequel that changes the continuity using time travel in the plot.
X-Men days of Future Past - Sequel that changes the continuity using time travel in the plot.
Terminator Genisys - Sequel that changes the continuity using time travel in the plot.

If you cant tell the difference then theres really no talking to you.

[marrerom]

Jesus man, how are you not getting this?

I'm going to try and explain this as clearly as I can.  In Days of future past There is a direct continuity between Xmen 1-3 and "days of future past".  This is why after wolverine resets the timeline he still has memories of them. They had to happen for "Days of future past" to happen. Its a sequel that takes place after "the wolverine", not a reboot.

OK? good.

The same cannot be said for T:G.  As you already stated:

Its explained in the movie why T2 wont happen. They destroy every part of the original T800 as opposed to the chip and arm being recovered by Cyberdyne. Again its part of the movie. Characters from T2 such as the Miles and Danny Dyson are also present in the movie in 2017 as well as the existence of the T-1000. Its this reference of T2's potential existence shows that they hadnt just ditched the idea of T2.

You admit that T2 cannot come about by the events show in T:G.  Furthermore its been stated by Yahzee why the events of T:G cannot come after T2:

... if T2 happened, then there's no Judgement Day, therefore there's no Genisys, unless you selectively are saying that Terminator 3 did happened. By attempting to ignore "two" movies, Genisys actually ignored three and created a mess of a plot. Doesn't matter what the producer or Cameron (who had said before he liked Terminator 3) say, the story is there on the screen

So if T2 doesn't happen before Genisys, and Genisys doesnt allow for T:2 to happen after it, then T2 doesnt occur in the same continuity where T:G takes place.  T:G is a separate standalone series, A reboot, just as the Producer said:

"It's the first in a completely stand-alone trilogy based on the universe that James Cameron created."

[FreeFacehugz]

Dear Jesus. Listen I know now your never gonna get it with your weird take on what you think a reboot is added with your dependence on what some hollywood producer had to say, as if they never talk shit.
It is explained IN THE MOVIE that they are changing the timeline. They are pretty much saying "we are preventing T2 from happening right now by doing this exact thing!" IN THE MOVIE. Its part of the same cannon but with a changed timeline IN THE MOVIE. Its not a different take on the story, its  the same sotry shot for shot, line for line until they knowingly change it IN THE MOVIE. Its a diverging timeline IN THE MOVE! Holy f**king christ. Its a plot device! Time travel lets them do that within the cannon. So you can have different timelines within the same series. Its not rocket science!

oh but the producer said lol

heres someone else to explain it to you

tho you probably think Back tothe Future 2 is a reboot going by your logic

[marrerom]

You don't understand the concept of continuity. 

producer had to say, as if they never talk shit.

David Ellison owns the studio that made the film. He chose the writers, director, and actors as well. He knows more about this film then anyone. To ignore his clear intent on this film is foolish.

It is explained IN THE MOVIE that they are changing the timeline. They are pretty much saying "we are preventing T2 from happening right now by doing this exact thing!" IN THE MOVIE. Its part of the same cannon but with a changed timeline IN THE MOVIE.

I'm going to put this on you now, ok?  You say Genisys is a sequel to T2. Prove it. Explain how the events of T2 lead to the opening of Genisys. I really want to know.

[Xenomorphine]

Terminator Genisys was a mediocre mishmash remake of T1/T2... so yea it ditched everything but at the same time T1 and T2 had to have happened for TG to have happened.

It's a sequel, but it erased every previous film from the continuity. That's what was especially annoying about it. Typically, if you feel underwhelmed or disappointed by a sequel, thinking it's sub-standard, them you can still say the earlier ones are as valid as they have ever been.

With this, most of its plot literally revolves around erasing those events from history and replacing them with its own vision.

So, no, T1 and T2 suffered the same fate as T3 and T4 did. They were all overwritten.

[blood.]

Creating a sequel that ignores previous installments is nothing new. Deleting previous installments however shoud be done carefully as the creator is essentially stepping on what fans may hold fond.

Another question I brought up to me was if time travel would sit right in the Alien universe if done right?

Time travel can work well in any scenario IF DONE RIGHT. There are only two uses of time travel I like:
Type 1:

Spoiler

T1 had a rule - the events that happen in the film lead to the setup of the film creating a perfect time loop. T2 didn't even betray this loop, however it gave opportunity for speculation whether or not the future had been changed.

(I always liked to think that when cyberdyne was a target for terrorism, the company's research was salvaged, recognized for it's potential and taken over by the military, leading to aug 29 judgement day when it otherwise may have been safely developed staying a private company. (ironically their attempts to destroy it lead to the war)

It wasn't until T3 that we learn the time line really was changed.

[close]

Type 2:

Spoiler

DOFP and Edge of tomorrow, a last minute jump turns everything from complete destruction to happily ever after with the main character being the only one who remembers the alternative.This is a little too perfect and neatly packaged for a lot of people but I personally like it. It's like a comeback from behind knockout in boxing except the one sided beating the winner endured never really even happened lol.

[close]

EDIT: Thinking about how time travel could be used to create the new alternate alien 3, perhaps with every known specimen of the xenomorph destroyed after alien 3, the big evil corporation manages to create time travel, however it's very primitive and dangerous making them reluctant to use it and only for select objectives with minimal chances of distorting the timeline.

One of their objectives is the acquisition of live xenomorph specimens, leading to them retrieving the eggs from the sulaco before they cause the fire, leaving the survivors of aliens intact and deleting alien 3 etc etc... decades later, ripley and hicks, safely moved on from the events of aliens, are called back to advise a group of officers responsible for commanding the forces that combat the xenos as they inevitably run riot and spread throughout all human space colonization like a plague... eventually reaching earth and on the brink of wiping out humanity... The last chance is a suicide mission into the heart of the xeno infestation to use time travel to prevent the species from being uncovered at the beginning of the film, leading to a confrontation on the sulaco, causing a fire and the entire ship being destroyed with young Ripley being the sole survivor crashing on fury161 along with the original alien 3 queen and dragon.

This would create a last minute salvation of humanity set parallel with an existing film and returning to it by the end. The moral dilemma being that the only way ripley and hicks save the human race is by ensuring the events of alien 3 and their own demise. Only problem is that it would create a hitler paradox... FFS I hate time travel LOL

[whiterabbit]

but at the same time T1 and T2 had to have happened for TG to have happened.

Its simply not possible for T2 to lead to Genisys.

How so? In the movie itself it is assumed that both T1 and T2 happened before the T5000 interfered. Hell whatever happens after TG is probably what sends Arnold back even earlier to save Sarah as a child. Kyle gains his new memories because he is outside of time as Conner is killed. Never the less time travel makes no goddamn sense.

Terminator Genisys was a mediocre mishmash remake of T1/T2... so yea it ditched everything but at the same time T1 and T2 had to have happened for TG to have happened.

It's a sequel, but it erased every previous film from the continuity. That's what was especially annoying about it. Typically, if you feel underwhelmed or disappointed by a sequel, thinking it's sub-standard, them you can still say the earlier ones are as valid as they have ever been.

With this, most of its plot literally revolves around erasing those events from history and replacing them with its own vision.

So, no, T1 and T2 suffered the same fate as T3 and T4 did. They were all overwritten.

lol maybe to fix the entire f**king thing the goal of the next movie should be to return the timelines to there original destinations. Basically T1, T2, the war, robots lose. The END.

[marrerom]

How so? In the movie itself it is assumed that both T1 and T2 happened before the T5000 interfered.

Because, Genisys opens with Kyle Reese stating that judgement day happened in 1997 and there is no way for Judgment day to happen in 1997 given how T2 ended. The chip is destroyed, the arm as well, and all the research. Hell, Even in Genisys its shown that when they destroy the terminator from 1987 Judgment day was completely averted.  So much so that the future Skynet from the alternate universe had to send the Connerbot to give cyberdyne all the info to create skynet from scratch.

[whiterabbit]

How so? In the movie itself it is assumed that both T1 and T2 happened before the T5000 interfered.

Because, Genisys opens with Kyle Reese stating that judgement day happened in 1997 and there is no way for Judgment day to happen in 1997 given how T2 ended. The chip is destroyed, the arm as well, and all the research. Hell, Even in Genisys its shown that when they destroy the terminator from 1987 Judgment day was completely averted.  So much so that the future Skynet from the alternate universe had to send the Connerbot to give cyberdyne all the info to create skynet from scratch.

Yes but that "time" happens after the events of those two movies. Also it depends on which universal time theory the movie is selling. In multiverse everything happens, if we're talking about a single timeline then everything is predestined to have happened. In either case, imo, time happens in a concise order of events. Sure events are written, then rewritten and overwritten again but it all unfolds like pages in a book than can not be merely ripped out.

T2 didn't stop judgement day, all the movies assert that somethings are just bound to happen. I have a feeling this is why Kyle was able to quite literally shake off being hit head on by a f**king car slamming the brakes at freeway speed less than 100 feet from him. Also, how Sarah was able to one hand support the weight of Kyle Reese and gear; while inside of a falling bus. At the moment I'm not chalking up those ridiculously stupid and impossible feats of superhuman ability to shitty writing. They surely have got to know better than that and because it looked cool doesn't cut it. I think it was written that way to show that the will of time or "something" was interfering to ensure certain events happen. The reason skynet never wins is because it can't use time to actually alter the events of time. It's merely only able to change the parameters. So in TG skynet decides to steal Conner thinking that he is unstoppable, which is why skynet waits until kyle is sent back in time to interfere. Other wise it would have killed all of them right then and there.

[marrerom]

T2 didn't stop judgement day, all the movies assert that somethings are just bound to happen.

What you are saying is that even after the ending of T2, where all of the data and physical evidence of the Terminator is destroyed, Judgment day still happened in 1997.  Cyberdyne would have had to rebuilt everything from scratch in only two years for that to work. No way.

Besides, if Judgement day is bound to happen no matter what then in Genisys Connerbot wouldn't have needed to be sent back in time to ensure that Cyberdyne builds skynet. 

At the moment I'm not chalking up those ridiculously stupid and impossible feats of superhuman ability to shitty writing. They surely have got to know better than that and because it looked cool doesn't cut it.

You are giving the writers WAY too much credit my friend.