Posted by Rankles75
- Sep 10, 2020, 07:23:13 AMQuote from: TC on Sep 10, 2020, 07:10:31 AM
Newt. Maybe not a standout when it comes to "interesting," but interesting enough. Just like Ripley was merely interesting enough in the first film. Luckily, Cameron saw the potential in Ripley, and made her more interesting.
Newt is intelligent and resourceful. It's implied that her mental state at the time of her discovery is one in which her brain has shut down on emotions so they don't get in the way of her doing whatever she needs to in order to survive. That's her key characteristic: she's a survivor.
I call this fertile ground. Particularly when you extrapolate what she would be like as an adult.
If I had written an Alien 3, Newt would be much like Clare Danes' character in Homeland, Carrie, with similar kinds of mental problems. (Carrie has to constantly manage her job as a CIA operative with her bipolar disorder. She has to hide her medication - lithium, Clonazepam, alcohol - and even checks herself into a hospital for voluntary ECT treatments so she can do her job).
This is what you do in a sequel; develop character not only by upping the ante in terms of plot (alien -> aliens), but also by driving it deeper into the psychology of the protagonist. IOW, create greater intensity both externally and internally.
Luckily, Cameron understood that and, likewise, took his story in both directions.
TC
Great post, fully agree.
Posted by TC
- Sep 10, 2020, 07:10:31 AMNewt. Maybe not a standout when it comes to "interesting," but interesting enough. Just like Ripley was merely interesting enough in the first film. Luckily, Cameron saw the potential in Ripley, and made her more interesting.
Newt is intelligent and resourceful. It's implied that her mental state at the time of her discovery is one in which her brain has shut down on emotions so they don't get in the way of her doing whatever she needs to in order to survive. That's her key characteristic: she's a survivor.
I call this fertile ground. Particularly when you extrapolate what she would be like as an adult.
If I had written an Alien 3, Newt would be much like Clare Danes' character in Homeland, Carrie, with similar kinds of mental problems. (Carrie has to constantly manage her job as a CIA operative with her bipolar disorder. She has to hide her medication - lithium, Clonazepam, alcohol - and even checks herself into a hospital for voluntary ECT treatments so she can do her job).
This is what you do in a sequel; develop character not only by upping the ante in terms of plot (alien -> aliens), but also by driving it deeper into the psychology of the protagonist. IOW, create greater intensity both externally and internally.
Luckily, Cameron understood that and, likewise, took his story in both directions.
TC
Newt is intelligent and resourceful. It's implied that her mental state at the time of her discovery is one in which her brain has shut down on emotions so they don't get in the way of her doing whatever she needs to in order to survive. That's her key characteristic: she's a survivor.
I call this fertile ground. Particularly when you extrapolate what she would be like as an adult.
If I had written an Alien 3, Newt would be much like Clare Danes' character in Homeland, Carrie, with similar kinds of mental problems. (Carrie has to constantly manage her job as a CIA operative with her bipolar disorder. She has to hide her medication - lithium, Clonazepam, alcohol - and even checks herself into a hospital for voluntary ECT treatments so she can do her job).
This is what you do in a sequel; develop character not only by upping the ante in terms of plot (alien -> aliens), but also by driving it deeper into the psychology of the protagonist. IOW, create greater intensity both externally and internally.
Luckily, Cameron understood that and, likewise, took his story in both directions.
TC
Posted by Tichinde
- Sep 10, 2020, 01:18:34 AMshe's not interesting but I think if she just dies it has the same effect Dark Fate had on Terminator and leaves a sore taste in people's mouths. Because the entire reason for fighting and surviving through the first movie is basically gone if there is no happy ending for some people. Ripley having to deal with them again is fine, but Newt is a kid, she represents innocence, so the ending of the film is the preservation of human innocence without that it's kinda bleak.
Hence why Alien 3 is viewed by so many (myself included) to spit all over Alien and Aliens
Hence why Alien 3 is viewed by so many (myself included) to spit all over Alien and Aliens
Posted by Huggs
- Sep 10, 2020, 12:03:54 AMI honestly never found newt even remotely interesting enough to be seen beyond the one film.
Let alone carry an entire franchise.
Let alone carry an entire franchise.
Posted by Local Trouble
- Sep 07, 2020, 11:30:01 PMUgh. I think it's time for you to stage a coup.
Posted by SM
- Sep 07, 2020, 11:26:24 PMLong time ago.
Didn't stop them putting some stupid bullshit in the RPG about the Company funding and effectively owning the ICC.
Didn't stop them putting some stupid bullshit in the RPG about the Company funding and effectively owning the ICC.
Posted by Local Trouble
- Sep 07, 2020, 11:21:08 PMHaven't you had a hand in enlightening some of the professionals about that very subject?
Posted by SM
- Sep 07, 2020, 11:11:30 PMQuoteSome people like the idea of WY being in control of the government, but given Aliens I don't think this is the case. No need to be subversive if you can just do what you want anyways.
Yep. Some people just looked at it on very one dimensional surface level.
Posted by Local Trouble
- Sep 07, 2020, 11:06:44 PMIs that where she finds the predators' time machine?
Posted by FatStu
- Sep 07, 2020, 10:38:28 PMHmm. Some interesting ideas but for me, Aliens has always been Ripleys story. So far at least. I get that 3 and Resurrection have their fans... But I always disliked how the ending of Aliens was undone. If it were up to me I'd take it back to that point somehow. And from there tell the story of an older Ripley who functions as more of a supporting character - with Newt being the main focus of the story. I think an adult Newt could be very interesting and compelling.
As for the alien itself - I don't think there's anywhere else to take it. So rather than try and reinvent the wheel - I think it should just be a kickass monster movie. This wouldn't be a film you see for universe building or franchise padding - just a lean no frills thrill machine.This would be a film to scare, shock and entertain. Medium budget, 1 hour 45 min run time...
Supporting roles played by actors like William Sadler, Michael Ironside, Ernie Hudson. Just a good, decent and honest genre movie.
City in space, Alien gets loose, Newt goes to help, teams up with the residents to defeat the threat.
that'll do me
As for the alien itself - I don't think there's anywhere else to take it. So rather than try and reinvent the wheel - I think it should just be a kickass monster movie. This wouldn't be a film you see for universe building or franchise padding - just a lean no frills thrill machine.This would be a film to scare, shock and entertain. Medium budget, 1 hour 45 min run time...
Supporting roles played by actors like William Sadler, Michael Ironside, Ernie Hudson. Just a good, decent and honest genre movie.
City in space, Alien gets loose, Newt goes to help, teams up with the residents to defeat the threat.
that'll do me
Posted by Nightmare Asylum
- Sep 07, 2020, 08:43:26 PMFrom the sound of things, Alex White's next novel is definitely going to be digging into some of that government/corporate relationship. Brand new corporations (with no mention of Weyland-Yutani to be seen), the Iranian and American government governments at one another's throats, etc. Given the quality of writing in White's The Cold Forge, which I would say is not just the best Alien novel, but also one of the best pieces of media tie-in fiction that I've read, I am very much excited to see what they are going to do with into Charybdis when it releases next year.
Quote"Shy" Hunt and the tech team from McAllen Integrations thought they'd have an easy job--set up environmental systems for the brand new Hasanova Data Solutions colony, built on the abandoned ruins of a complex known as "Charybdis." There are just two problems: the colony belongs to the Iranian state, so diplomacy is strained at best, and the complex is located above a series of hidden caves that contain deadly secrets. When a bizarre ship lands on a nearby island, one of the workers is attacked by a taloned creature, and trust evaporates between the Iranians and Americans. The McAllen Integrations crew are imprisoned, accused as spies, but manage to send out a distress signal... to the Colonial Marines.
Posted by Kimarhi
- Sep 07, 2020, 08:38:18 PMI always liked the early comics take of the Government/WY relationship. Corporations were powerful, until they challenged the government directly.
Orona said something like: I'm government and your corporate, my hammer is bigger and I'll play hell whacking you with it.
As a kind of threat letting the corporations know that they had enough firepower and had insulated themselves enough that they could take down a big corporation if it came into conflict with them.
Some people like the idea of WY being in control of the government, but given Aliens I don't think this is the case. No need to be subversive if you can just do what you want anyways.
I don't necessarily want WY to go away, but every corporation has rivals, and the government is more than just one entity. I want to see the human universe expand.
Orona said something like: I'm government and your corporate, my hammer is bigger and I'll play hell whacking you with it.
As a kind of threat letting the corporations know that they had enough firepower and had insulated themselves enough that they could take down a big corporation if it came into conflict with them.
Some people like the idea of WY being in control of the government, but given Aliens I don't think this is the case. No need to be subversive if you can just do what you want anyways.
I don't necessarily want WY to go away, but every corporation has rivals, and the government is more than just one entity. I want to see the human universe expand.
Posted by Nightmare Asylum
- Sep 07, 2020, 08:31:41 PMQuote from: Kimarhi on Sep 07, 2020, 08:24:58 PM
Have the universe open up to include differnet factions of humans than just Marines/WY
This please. Obviously WY would have some sort of role to play in the potential Covenant sequel, since the Covenant is their ship, and I wouldn't be opposed to seeing one more story set post-Alien 3 dealing with Weyland-Yutani's collapse, but otherwise? I want to see some different mega-corporations and factions with totally different agendas at play. Seegson's presence gave Alien: Isolation a bit of a different flavor, which I appreciated (and I thought the sort of corporate warfare between Seegson and WY going on behind the scenes in The Cold Forge was very interesting), and one of the things that I think Alien: Resurrection got very right in their new timeframe was squashing the Company and making it a relic of the past in favor of a totally new government/corporate infrastructure in the galaxy, with the USM serving as our new focal point in this restructured world.
Posted by Kimarhi
- Sep 07, 2020, 08:24:58 PMI'd just reboot the franchise entirely at this point.
Ignore everything. Restart with Alien/Aliens
Have the universe open up to include differnet factions of humans than just Marines/WY, include the engineers eventually, maybe bring in the fake engineers (big bald blue guys) in as a precursor to their arrival, have the Aliens evolve past the point of control by any party.
DON'T DWELL SO MUCH ON PAST BULLSHIT AND PROGRESS THE STORY FORWARD. This is my main pet peeve of the franchise right now. You have a bunch of writers for the movies OBSESSED with telling every story hinted at in the first two films. Now you have two movies set in the series past that absolutely push the narrative............nowhere. They are just spinning wheels. Lets say the next movie is released and explains how the Engineer dreadnought crashlands on LV426................WOW what an amazing reveal. A story note that does absolutely nothing for the franchises future since we know no Aliens were around in between Alien 3 and Resurrection because the Jockeyship got nuked in Aliens.
The universe of Alien should be gigantic, humanity is expanding into the galaxy......and we get the same small slice stories ALL THE DAMN TIME. After the Aliens are defeated for the 7th or 8th time right before they spread out and do damage.............they stop being a threat. Even directors not interested in Cameron's storytelling have turned them into Cameron's space bugs. They are always squashed by the hero.
I've said it a hundred times, its time to either bury the franchise or reboot it.
Ignore everything. Restart with Alien/Aliens
Have the universe open up to include differnet factions of humans than just Marines/WY, include the engineers eventually, maybe bring in the fake engineers (big bald blue guys) in as a precursor to their arrival, have the Aliens evolve past the point of control by any party.
DON'T DWELL SO MUCH ON PAST BULLSHIT AND PROGRESS THE STORY FORWARD. This is my main pet peeve of the franchise right now. You have a bunch of writers for the movies OBSESSED with telling every story hinted at in the first two films. Now you have two movies set in the series past that absolutely push the narrative............nowhere. They are just spinning wheels. Lets say the next movie is released and explains how the Engineer dreadnought crashlands on LV426................WOW what an amazing reveal. A story note that does absolutely nothing for the franchises future since we know no Aliens were around in between Alien 3 and Resurrection because the Jockeyship got nuked in Aliens.
The universe of Alien should be gigantic, humanity is expanding into the galaxy......and we get the same small slice stories ALL THE DAMN TIME. After the Aliens are defeated for the 7th or 8th time right before they spread out and do damage.............they stop being a threat. Even directors not interested in Cameron's storytelling have turned them into Cameron's space bugs. They are always squashed by the hero.
I've said it a hundred times, its time to either bury the franchise or reboot it.
Posted by Rankles75
- Sep 07, 2020, 08:07:58 PMQuote from: FatStu on Sep 07, 2020, 05:47:10 PMSorry man, I didn't realise that it's only your ideas and opinions that matter in here. I foolishly thought I could just shoot the breeze with fellow fans of something I quite like.
You'll have to forgive the Alien 3 fans, they tend to get awful tetchy after having to constantly defend their film for the last 30ish years.
