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“Doesn’t Everyone Want Their Parents Dead?” Prometheus 10th Anniversary Retrospective – AvP Galaxy Podcast #147

We have just uploaded the 147th episode of the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast (right-click and save as to download)! Corporal Hicks, RidgeTop and Xenomorphine are joined once against by Omegamorph to revisit Sir Ridley Scott’s immensely divisive return to the world of science-fiction and Alien, Prometheus, for its 10th anniversary.

 "Doesn't Everyone Want Their Parents Dead?" Prometheus 10th Anniversary Retrospective - AvP Galaxy Podcast #147

We discuss if our opinions have changed since we first saw the film, how the film compares to the Heavy Metal magazine, practical creature effects, Space Jockeys, and plenty more!

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  1. ModMonkey
    Quote from: NecronomIV on Jul 21, 2022, 05:18:20 AMI will say that when I watched this with my wife, who is a microbiologist and ecologist among other things, I was surprised she didn't mention Milburn's rather naive approach to the Hammerpede, and when I quizzed her about it she said "No... that's about right. A lot of people in the sciences aren't actually that sensible or bright."

    Here's a joke: "What do you call someone who got 51% on their medicine exam?"
    Answer: "Doctor"


    I kind of love this.😂
  2. David Weyland
    The acid blood element was present in Prometheus with the Hammerpede creature spawned from the worms with the black goo.
    Therefore I figured the neomorphs would too have some element of it

    Even so, the cut of the hand doesn't look it was chopped off with a knife-Be bleeding white no then?
    It appears burnt or blown off, in this case the Neo's bite so therefore to me adds to reason David is in Walter's body
  3. judge death
    Problem here is: those creatures dont have acid for blood, so walters hand wasnt burnt off/acid damage. Also when oram killed one of them it didnt either leak acid. Them not having acid for blood is According to the book released together with covenant.
  4. David Weyland
    Checklist:
    Kill Walter
    Change clothes
    Replicate cuts(Actually he had no need to as nobody saw Walter's face get cut except David thus furthering upload theory)
    Acid burn hand off
    Go back to lair, swallow embryos
    Kiss Elizabeth Shaw goodbye
    Catch up with the others

    In 30 minutes sure, in 5 even at Bishop speed, no.

  5. David Weyland
    Been here before with this many times but the amount of off screen time between Daniels and Lope waiting for Tennessee and 'Walter' turning up to join them is minimal, 5 minutes at best.

    Despite what Ridley says about it that he cheated(To throw us off the scent perhaps?) the physical switch and all that entailed in the time from one scene to the next just doesn't make sense at all.

    The upload theory carries well (Interesting that the new tv series is going to expand upon this idea)right through perhaps in theory to fellow Perfect Organism lover Ash
  6. Corporal Hicks
    Quote from: David Weyland on Jul 25, 2022, 08:38:13 AMAnd his hand didn't make an effort to repair itself either.
    The whole lead up to the fight has David trying to persuade Walter to turn.
    The upload makes better sense

    The film shows us Walter healing a smaller wound to his "skin" and makes a point of "there's been a few upgrades". I've always found the upload idea to be convoluted than him simply pretending.

    Quote from: SiL on Jul 25, 2022, 07:51:28 AMBut then that should've been a major red flag to the other characters.

    That's fair and I've no answer to that outside of "stress of the situation." It's just the way I've always read how the film presented the situation.
  7. Corporal Hicks
    The thing is Walter should't need staples. He has auto-healing. I took that from my very first viewing to be that it was David's body because it hadn't repaired itself like we saw his earlier wounds do.
  8. David Weyland
    The cut on Walter's right cheek from the fight is the hint given(That flew over most peoples heads) emphasised by the stapling of the scar scene with Daniels and its prominent stitches shown is the strongest indication that David uploaded into Walter by force or by Walter choosing to reign in hell, making in my sense of it a covenant with David.
  9. choccy milk
    Quote from: judge death on Jul 24, 2022, 08:01:12 AMYep! At that stage of the movie it dont make sense Daniels just trust Walter/David syntetic without even thnking that it could be David all along, she never saw Walter win the fight/how it ended.
    She should been paranoid after what happened and made tests to check if its Walter or not, especielly how her personality was shown earlier in the movie. For us audience it wouldnt work no matter, we would always suspect this would happen.
    Indeed. The movie (again, since it wants to be clever) lacks crucial script info

    Quote from: judge death on Jul 24, 2022, 08:01:12 AMHehehe! A person with great taste I see. That or The four dark judges or judge death lives are the best comics with judge death. :D
    YES! The original run with all four is my favourite. JUDGE MORTIS!

    They also did this movie, Split Second, where the monster is pretty much Judge Death in an Alien disguise (even kills people by ripping their hearts off):

    https://www.dreadcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/SPLIT-SECOND.jpg

    also stars Rutger Hauer. Defo recommended!
  10. judge death
    Yep! At that stage of the movie it dont make sense Daniels just trust Walter/David syntetic without even thnking that it could be David all along, she never saw Walter win the fight/how it ended.
    She should been paranoid after what happened and made tests to check if its Walter or not, especielly how her personality was shown earlier in the movie. For us audience it wouldnt work no matter, we would always suspect this would happen.

    Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 24, 2022, 07:47:50 AMalso I'm talking to judge death on an Alien forum lemme go find some 2000AD comics, mmm NECROPOLIS!
    Hehehe! A person with great taste I see. That or The four dark judges or judge death lives are the best comics with judge death. :D
  11. choccy milk
    Yeah I'm quite far from being a genius, the upload thing is a popular fan theory... and the only explanation that makes a lick of sense in the context of the movie

    Daniels DOES see David with the new haircut - when he molests her. She should've been wary of the similarities between the two, but you can chalk that up to stress (I guess? Doesn't really do the trick for me, not at that point). Oram is of course the worst offender. Again assuming David as the old kind of Hammer Horror villain (a sorcerer-like character), the movie (which is supposedly a clever one that takes itself seriously) should've given the audience the tiniest bit of visual info about some sort of spore-gas or whatever that drugged the crew. Hell, David could've blown it into their faces - imagine him blowing a poison kiss to Oram, like the devil

    also I'm talking to judge death on an Alien forum lemme go find some 2000AD comics, mmm NECROPOLIS!
  12. judge death
    Quote from: Kradan on Jul 24, 2022, 01:40:03 AMReally ? I  thought it was quite popular fan theory
    Yes! I probably missed it if it was brought up on the forum before, most reactions I´ve seen has been like this person in this review, I time stamped it so dont have to watch whole thing:
    https://youtu.be/iBNV1QqConw?t=2595

    Gotta love when one find new info and ones mind just explodes and I wonder how I didnt thought of that was an option. :D
  13. judge death
    Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 23, 2022, 06:31:34 PMHe literally cut his hair to pull the stunt and he does so relatively early, so that doesn't work

    the walter switch is easier: he uploaded himself into walter's body
    You are correct there that after he spoke to the communication people setting up their antenna radio thing, he cut his hair, but like some female friends, they look different:
    (Yes, I rewatched covenant to be sure I dont remember it wrong xD )
    https://scontent.fbma2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/294453995_10228197466948671_6485163244485929232_n.jpg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6wIEhVM-1RoAX-uTqPq&_nc_ht=scontent.fbma2-1.fna&oh=00_AT_10BzwyBhH9vt72v6fIPTHOHfa3rswKPGR3uj2lgBpxg&oe=62E28CD8

    David:
    https://scontent.fbma2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/295069558_10228197467348681_8911715075488136698_n.jpg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DYbZWUP2OzIAX_VvJzQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fbma2-1.fna&oh=00_AT-hEQswPy5C7RZ_x02CeSRc5cuCeV6CTQusoj3UKgHyTQ&oe=62E0B266

    Walter:
    https://scontent.fbma2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/295617076_10228197467388682_5367351826235799378_n.jpg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=xKtZx3Az3DEAX8r516W&_nc_ht=scontent.fbma2-1.fna&oh=00_AT_tyS2xifEu0n3aJa0I7JuABaOvR6LqU_DKDWFs5MQmcg&oe=62E2111E

    But yeah you are right he do it rather quick and one would suspect it being weird and one should be worried about but I noticed:
    Its only Oram and Daniels who see him with the new haircut, rest of the crew dont see him after the first encounter.
    But even then him with long hair and being same design as Walter they should had started to be worried those two might be hard to keep track of who is who.

    Oram is as he is and fails to realise things and as we saw him: naively believing David, most likely thinking he is just like Walter and no need to be worried and trusting what David is saying.

    Daniel did raise some concern and sensing something is wrong and was worried and tells Walter, who says: I will have a talk with my brother.

    Rest of covenant crew had no idea.


    Oh holy damn! You are genious, I havent even thought about that, nor have I seen any reviewers or people here coming up with that idea that David just uploaded himself into Walters body, that explains the mouth injury, arm, and the hair. Everyone I know so far has been like: David defeated Walter, then took his clothes, fixed the hair and made self injury to the mouth to look like Walter.
    Well spotted and great idea, love it. :D
  14. choccy milk
    Quote from: judge death on Jul 23, 2022, 03:09:44 PMOnly theory I have is Oram thought David was just like Walther and cant allow a human to be hurt and trusted him which is strange after what he saw David do... I guess its more Ridley thing and he wanted to do some religious point...
    yep, so, kinda terribly scripted. It would've been so easy to add an insert shot of some sort of gas entering Oram thru the nose (same way the spores entered the guys) but what gives?

    Quote from: judge death on Jul 23, 2022, 03:09:44 PMI dont remember David trying to mimmic Walther at all with the crew until at the end when David is disapointed in Walther and takes him out and then what he tried to do with Daniels and kissing before Walther comes back and Walther was beating David as she left.

    How David could get his haircut and same color within seconds is another question and removing one of his arms.
    He literally cut his hair to pull the stunt and he does so relatively early, so that doesn't work

    the walter switch is easier: he uploaded himself into walter's body
  15. judge death
    Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 22, 2022, 12:20:19 AMI will concede if you convince me Oram's death is somehow justifiable within the context of the movie
    or why no one questions why david is mimicking (and then maaaaybe replacing) walter
    Only theory I have is Oram thought David was just like Walther and cant allow a human to be hurt and trusted him which is strange after what he saw David do... I guess its more Ridley thing and he wanted to do some religious point....

    I dont remember David trying to mimmic Walther at all with the crew until at the end when David is disapointed in Walther and takes him out and then what he tried to do with Daniels and kissing before Walther comes back and Walther was beating David as she left.

    How David could get his haircut and same color within seconds is another question and removing one of his arms.
  16. oduodu
    i agree with most of what has been said about prometheus. i just wanted people to be aware that if you compare spaihts and lindelof's drafts alot of the illogical stuff was deliberately inserted.

    justsayin....
  17. choccy milk
    Quote from: Kradan on Jul 22, 2022, 05:39:07 AMBtw, nothing wrong about some android kung-fu
    Imma tell the mods

    Quote from: Still Collating... on Jul 22, 2022, 01:03:24 PMReally enjoyed the podcast guys! It was fun seeing Omega so enthralled! :laugh: I enjoy Prometheus a lot more now than I did before, and the RPG has done wonders to integrate it into the world, but I do agree with all of the mentioned criticisms. I would've liked to hear more about your opinions on the medpod scene, Deacon design and Fifield practical zombie vs CGI grey ET. But still, very fun IMO. Can't wait to see Omega unleashed for The Predator one day.  :laugh: 
    That you will!

    I'm thinking of doing something Prometheus related that's not me going secular fanboy over it but we'll see how it's gonna go
  18. Still Collating...
    Really enjoyed the podcast guys! It was fun seeing Omega so enthralled! :laugh: I enjoy Prometheus a lot more now than I did before, and the RPG has done wonders to integrate it into the world, but I do agree with all of the mentioned criticisms. I would've liked to hear more about your opinions on the medpod scene, Deacon design and Fifield practical zombie vs CGI grey ET. But still, very fun IMO. Can't wait to see Omega unleashed for The Predator one day.  :laugh: 
  19. choccy milk
    Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 22, 2022, 01:49:32 AMI am not a canon denier despite sharing my nerdy fetishes. You're right, and unless someone makes a serious retcon, David is the creator of the Alien and the Engineers are the Space Jockeys. Covenant is a cute gothic sci-fi movie and the Fassbender vs. Fassbender reminds me of the Jinsei bedroom from Mortal Kombat.  ;D
    Thank you

    of course, a lot of people can still do whatever and select the canon continuity for their own viewing

    for example, Alien DC contradicts Aliens, therefore, it can be a logical argument to put it into its own continuity

    examples of possible continuity branching (think Halloween) excluding AvP:

    ALIEN DC - PROMETHEUS - COVENANT (linked by the use of spores; eggmorphing was never a thing)

    ALIEN TC - ALIENS TC/DC - ALIEN3 TC/AC - RESURRECTION TC/DC - PROMETHEUS - COVENANT (PROMETHEUS and COVENANT gain stylistical points if RESURRECTION is included in the equation)


    my personal canon timelines for the films depends on my mood but generally here goes

    ALIEN DC - (THE DESTROYING ANGELS) (neither makes a single reference to a Queen caste)

    ALIEN TC - ALIENS TC/DC (ALIEN DC can be conciliated with ALIENS in a vacuum, but not considering author intentions)

    ALIEN TC - ALIENS TC/DC - ALIEN3 TC/DC (Ripley arc)
    ALIEN: RESURRECTION TC/DC (French coda in an alternate universe where everything is Jeunet)

    ALIEN TC - ALIENS TC/DC - ALIEN3 TC/DC - ALIEN: RESURRECTION (Ripley arc + French coda in an unrecognizable future wrapping Ripley's arc in a most unusual way)
  20. javablue
    Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 22, 2022, 12:20:19 AM
    Quote from: javablue on Jul 20, 2022, 12:59:50 PMNot sure what point you're trying to make but I agree with Omega. When Millburn said "300 years of Darwinism", I immediately thought, "well, he's not a biologist" because if he was he would have said, "3.5 billion years of Evolution" (as Omega pointed out).

    THANK YOU

    the guy's comic relief clearly, but a misplaced one....

    The actions of Millburn (and Fifield) are clearly set up to be interpreted as comic relief but I think their role goes beyond that. And if you look closely at Holloway's presentation, you will see that it's full of similar silly mistakes and therefore you could just as easily say "well, he's not an archaeologist". Ditto Shaw. 

    Are they all comic relief or is something else going on?
  21. Immortan Jonesy
    Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 19, 2022, 10:06:58 AMA lot of people go back to O'Bannon's ideas but the truth of the matter is - they didn't matter anymore by 2012 and they certainly won't matter in the foreseeable future. To the joy of its fans and the dismay of many secular fans, Prometheus has won its way in official lore and it's not going away any time soon.

    Covenant starts over from Prometheus and dare I say it's a much, much better film, more clean cut in what it wants to be, more clean cut with how it writes the android, and most importantly way, way meaner than Prometheus. If Prometheus was stitched together, Covenant is its refinement, and finds its voice in referencing classic gothic literature and British horror of old (Hammer horror most importantly). It does suffer from similar problems to Prometheus (many characters are not flawed like other 'ID island' films, but downright idiotic, for no discernible reason other than... they're dumb) but at the very least it retcons the retcon and makes the Alien go back to being something interesting.

    Also it gets rid of Shaw, so like 500 bonus points

    To me, Covenant definitely triumphs over Prometheus -- DESPITE that horrid android kung-fu and Oram being the worst written character of the entire series -- so I look forward to doing a podcast on it

    I'll play nice when the time comes :P

    I am not a canon denier despite sharing my nerdy fetishes. You're right, and unless someone makes a serious retcon, David is the creator of the Alien and the Engineers are the Space Jockeys. That being said, Covenant is a nice gothic sci-fi movie and the Fassbender vs. Fassbender scene reminds me of the Jinsei chamber from Mortal Kombat.  ;D

  22. NecronomIV
    Quote from: javablue on Jul 21, 2022, 01:12:07 PM
    Quote from: NecronomIV on Jul 21, 2022, 05:18:20 AMI will say that when I watched this with my wife, who is a microbiologist and ecologist among other things, I was surprised she didn't mention Milburn's rather naive approach to the Hammerpede, and when I quizzed her about it she said "No... that's about right. A lot of people in the sciences aren't actually that sensible or bright."

    Your wife has presented us with a paradox. How can take much notice of her opinion that a lot of scientists aren't very bright, given that she herself is a scientist and therefore possibly not very .......

    However, fully agree with your comments on quarantine procedures.

    She was digusted by science in the end - way too much politicising, infighting, sabotage and you get to produce reports that allow the goverment to say "Look! We've done something about Problem X" and then implement or provide funding for exactly none of the recommendations. She moved to teaching, and then to farming/ecology/education.  :)
  23. choccy milk
    Quote from: javablue on Jul 20, 2022, 12:59:50 PMNot sure what point you're trying to make but I agree with Omega. When Millburn said "300 years of Darwinism", I immediately thought, "well, he's not a biologist" because if he was he would have said, "3.5 billion years of Evolution" (as Omega pointed out).
    THANK YOU

    the guy's comic relief clearly, but a misplaced one....


    Quote from: judge death on Jul 21, 2022, 12:39:56 AMI will have to defend covenant here: In prometheus I agree they were dumb and thats why it dont fit the plot when they say these are the best scientists there is on earth, but in the movie they act like teenagers and idiots rather than scientists....
    I will concede if you convince me Oram's death is somehow justifiable within the context of the movie
    or why no one questions why david is mimicking (and then maaaaybe replacing) walter

    (genuine question, not an attack; I don't watch Covenant often)
  24. javablue
    Quote from: NecronomIV on Jul 21, 2022, 05:18:20 AMI will say that when I watched this with my wife, who is a microbiologist and ecologist among other things, I was surprised she didn't mention Milburn's rather naive approach to the Hammerpede, and when I quizzed her about it she said "No... that's about right. A lot of people in the sciences aren't actually that sensible or bright."

    Your wife has presented us with a paradox. How can take much notice of her opinion that a lot of scientists aren't very bright, given that she herself is a scientist and therefore possibly not very .......

    However, fully agree with your comments on quarantine procedures.
  25. NecronomIV
    Quote from: judge death on Jul 21, 2022, 12:39:56 AM
    Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 19, 2022, 10:06:58 AMIt does suffer from similar problems to Prometheus (many characters are not flawed like other 'ID island' films, but downright idiotic, for no discernible reason other than... they're dumb)
    I will have to defend covenant here: In prometheus I agree they were dumb and thats why it dont fit the plot when they say these are the best scientists there is on earth, but in the movie they act like teenagers and idiots rather than scientists....
    I see some people complain that the people in covenant are dumb and why they dont wear helmets or do science etc, why would they? They are colonist and normal workers, some are military to protect the others, none of them from what the movie shows are scientists. So to me its okay that they dont act too smart or talk like scientists would, more like the crew of nostromo, normal people traveling in space.

    And we all know how dumb people can be and do stupid decisions, aka look at covid years how people fail to follow simpliest of tasks or rules....

    I will say that when I watched this with my wife, who is a microbiologist and ecologist among other things, I was surprised she didn't mention Milburn's rather naive approach to the Hammerpede, and when I quizzed her about it she said "No... that's about right. A lot of people in the sciences aren't actually that sensible or bright."

    Here's a joke: "What do you call someone who got 51% on their medicine exam?"
    Answer: "Doctor"

    OTOH, quarantine procedures for space-farers would almost certainly be breathtakingly high. In Covenant, and Prothemetheus both, taking off your helmet is not just stupid, it's likely contravening SOP. It's probably bad enough people carrying basic and exotic Terran infections from place to place (as the waves of flu, SARS and other exotics like Ebola and Monkeypox demonstrate!), let alone stopping off on an alien planet with an actual functioning ecology and picking up almost anything.

    Ripley knew about quarantine procedure, and was not only sabotaged by the company in the form of Ash, but attacked for her by-the-book approach by her crew-mates who should have known better. I forget what Parker and Brett's reaction was, but Dallas and Lambert should have realised they weren't getting back on-board and their attitude otherwise suggests a certain lets-not-and-say-we-did approach to quarantine among truckers-in-space.
  26. judge death
    Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 19, 2022, 10:06:58 AMIt does suffer from similar problems to Prometheus (many characters are not flawed like other 'ID island' films, but downright idiotic, for no discernible reason other than... they're dumb)
    I will have to defend covenant here: In prometheus I agree they were dumb and thats why it dont fit the plot when they say these are the best scientists there is on earth, but in the movie they act like teenagers and idiots rather than scientists....
    I see some people complain that the people in covenant are dumb and why they dont wear helmets or do science etc, why would they? They are colonist and normal workers, some are military to protect the others, none of them from what the movie shows are scientists. So to me its okay that they dont act too smart or talk like scientists would, more like the crew of nostromo, normal people traveling in space.

    And we all know how dumb people can be and do stupid decisions, aka look at covid years how people fail to follow simpliest of tasks or rules....
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