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Genetic Aberrations, Revisiting The Predator – AvP Galaxy Podcast #95

We have just uploaded the 95th episode of the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast (right-click and save as to download)! Our newest episode sees us reconvene after a year to revisit The Predator to see if our opinions have changed – for better or worse – having had the last year to learn more about the film.

 Genetic Aberrations, Revisiting The Predator - AvP Galaxy Podcast #95

In addition to talking The Predator, also included are tangents regarding digital media and behind-the-scenes features and the recent copyright reports.

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  1. Ronoc
    The movies need to be about the people fighting the Predators, not get mired down in Predator culture. Arnold was the star of the first movie, and the best thing in it, cool and all as the Predator was.
    What has it benefitted the movies to go down that route of 'Yuatja'? And although I'm not much of a fan of Predator 2, at least they didn't overdo it compared to what came later. Keep that fangirl crushing for the comics. In the movies that stuff is a franchise-killer.
    I personally just think it should be brought back to survival horror. And a Predator we can root against
  2. EVILthePREDATOR
    Voodoo, I respect your points, and they are all solid sound arguments.. writing and good direction is super important I agree but...

    If every predator we see in film, is the same, in terms of codes etc, you’re not leaving yourself much room to work with in terms of keeping things original and fresh, and more importantly keeping the audience involved. Predator is not just one character, it’s a species. So why wouldn’t they each have unique personalities?

    Personally I like the idea that each predator has its own distinct character profile, and does things slightly different from the last. It keeps things entertaining, and new. I think strictly staying by the coded formula, really narrows your options down in terms of doing things that haven’t already been done. And I really want more than that in the next film.

    I agree with a back to basics approach, I just think theres plenty of the room to get creative with the star man himself.

    If it’s just going to be a rinse and repeat of the originals formula, that just isn’t clever story telling imho.





  3. Voodoo Magic
    In order to follow a code of conduct, I think you’d have to have a sense of respect or honor, integrity, or some similar synonym. Or at least be scared of the repercussions if you don’t follow the rules. I don’t see the latter being the case amongst Predator.

    If a code isn’t being followed out of fear, then I’d imagine it’s being followed out of principle.

    Makes sense.  :)

    Voodoo, Jokes aside the fact is bud let’s be honest, something needs to change. Big time!

    Yep, they need to get back to basics! A single hunting Predator, a cool environment, and plenty of blood to satisfy EvilThePredator!  ;D

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    We have stuck to the rules of the hunt, through p2, avp and avp R, predators and the predator.( sort of with the last two)

    In AvPR and The Predator, it was about containment and retrieval respectively. Neither were a Predator on a hunting trip.

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    It’s time to shake things up. And I think deep down you know that to.

    Deep down, where?  :P

    There's no Ridley-like "The beast is done. Cooked" opinion for me, nor "It’s time to shake things up" opinion for me either. Just a back-to-basics single Predator hunting in a cool environment is all you need to me.

    Don't overcomplicate things. It can be today, or picking off Spartans in Ancient Greece. The Predator is structured like a slasher film in essense, so just let Michael Myers be Micheal Myers. It all comes to writing and direction. It's why the previous movies were various degress of bad, not because the concept was flawed, but because the writing and direction was flawed.

    Good writing and good direction is what has, is and will always be the key in this bear's eyes. Not changing the Predator's honor or code in regards to hunting unarmed people.  Far from it. It will kill plenty of people regardless to satisfy any movie-goers bloodlust. 

    Good writing and good direction... i.e... opposite of The Predator... is what this fan so desperately craves.
  4. Wysps
    In order to follow a code of conduct, I think you’d have to have a sense of respect or honor, integrity, or some similar synonym. Or at least be scared of the repercussions if you don’t follow the rules. I don’t see the latter being the case amongst Predator.

    If a code isn’t being followed out of fear, then I’d imagine it’s being followed out of principle.

  5. EVILthePREDATOR
    Voodoo, Jokes aside the fact is bud let’s be honest, something needs to change. Big time!

     We have stuck to the rules of the hunt, through p2, avp and avp R, predators and the predator.( sort of with the last two)

    It’s time to shake things up. And I think deep down you know that to.

    As the films have progressively got worse and worse. It’s obvious there’s something that’s gone wrong. Being a more aggressive sinister predator isn’t the same as bad blood. (Who has gone against the its honor code)

    Like I say I only want the extreme violence to be against “bad guys”

    Perhaps this specimen of predator has a love of killing prey that demonstrates acts of evil?
    I think it could play well into the plot and bounce of each other and make the predator more complex and interesting.

    So I don’t feel like it would be treading on the toes of a predators culture and honor if it was done right.

    It would just give the raw power of predator some context for the viewer.

    Now I’m not saying for one second my answer to the problem is the only answer. That’s why I share my ideas because I love to hear other people’s own unique take on it and what predator means to them.

    And I really can’t stress that enough. 

    All I’m trying to get across more than anything is the next film has just got to get the tone right. That’s the one thing imo that this franchise really needs more than anything. Everything just feels so inconsistent.

    The actors, the dodgy CGI, the cheesy plots and throw backs etc. It’s become a cheese fest.

    Like Christian bale and Christopher Nolan reimagined Batman and took it away from the campiness of the 90s.

    Someone needs to do the same with predator.

    At the end of it all, you have to reinvent yourself to stay relevant in this world.

    David Bowie, Madonna, Batman, even Spider-man and pop culture in general are perfect examples of constantly reinventing things that are loved to keep things fresh.

    I really don’t see how predator is any different in that light.

    It’s sad but true, and if you want something to be successful you have to accept that reality.

  6. Kurai
    Not killing the young or pregnant females has nothing to do with honor though, it's making sure that there is still game to hunt in the future. It's a common hunting practice.
  7. Voodoo Magic
    It's the Predator Pyscopath  = ≠ Debate of 2019!  :P

    What's honorable about killing something that doesn't want to die? Whatever honour there is exists only in his own head.
    In practice he's a murdering psychopath.

    Well that's your personal judgment of Sports Hunting then. But generally, at least in America, society doesn't deem hunting in that light. It's legal and considered by many as culturally fine. Yeah, to you, if you go fishing and mount the fish on your wall, you're a murdering psychopath, but the global society as a whole has yet to come to such consensus, regardless if you and I disagree.

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    Didn't one of them kill a train load of innocent people just on their way home from work?

    They were all armed. Being unarmed is why the Predator kept sparing Anna.

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    How many kids did he orphan that day.

    Hunters don't think in such terms.

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    But somebody decided to give him redemption in the second movie, and it was a wrong turn. People ran with the lore, and now it's the worst thing about the franchise, shoved in everywhere.

    Yeah, those Thomas Brothers, what knuckleheads!  ::)
  8. EVILthePREDATOR
    Sure I have my own ideas. But it mainly stems from the fact this franchise needs reimagining and personally I feel it desperately needs that now as the old “rules” and ideas, just ain’t working anymore. It’s needs a reinvention. Relevance now instead of to the past. Create new stories rather than the same work out stuff. I respect that the Thomas brothers are the creators. But that doesn’t mean someone can’t take risks and get creative.

     Now I wouldn’t go against its honor to do that, I just think the action needs a big shake up.
  9. Ronoc
    What's honorable about killing something that doesn't want to die? Whatever honour there is exists only in his own head.
    In practice he's a murdering psychopath.
    Didn't one of them kill a train load of innocent people just on their way home from work? How many kids did he orphan that day.
    Jungle Hunter went murder-suicde at the end, the biggest dick move you can pull.
    I don't mind him being a dick, worked for the first movie.
    But somebody decided to give him redemption in the second movie, and it was a wrong turn. People ran with the lore, and now it's the worst thing about the franchise, shoved in everywhere.
    But what do I know, I thought the original Predator movie was about Arnold Schwarzenegger trying to survive some pycho alien, not 'Yuatja 101'...
  10. Voodoo Magic
    @voodoo...

    “ And the viewed purpose of detonation is to remove all trace of the Predator and their tech.”

    Personally I think that’s speculative. It wasn’t really explained. It could very well of been but hurt that it lost a fair fight and tried to take Dutch with him.

    In Predator 2, when Mike Harrigan killed the City Hunter, not only did the other Predators let Mike live, they actually rewarded Mike for killing one of their own with a flintlock.

    Considering both movies were written by the Predator creators the Thomas Brothers, and the Thomas Brothers indicated Predator 2 has all the aspects of the Predator they didn't get an opportunity to explain in the first movie, I think it's safe to say revenge killing isn't their normal way.

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    I think predator being sadistic fits far better with what it actually is, which is a space killing high tech alien from the far reaches of space.
    Than some sort of anti hero.

    That's cool that you feel that way, but it's not how the Thomas brothers conceptualized it. They've equated them to a "sports hunter" from outter space.

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    For example the “mwahahahahaha” laugh he makes while taunting his victims can hardly be classed as honorable.

    It wasn't the Predator's laugh, it was Billy's laugh repeated, but true, the end result gives a "muhahah" effect that worked great for the movie.

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    He clearly took pleasure in bringing death on his prey. I.e sadistic. Just like when a cat catches a mouse and wants to f*ck with it for a bit before it kills it. It’s clearly doing it for self satisfaction. The very fact it takes trophies is very similar to mass murderers taking trophies from their victims, which is a common theme amongst psychopaths.

    Yeah, sorry, but the Predators are not pyscopaths. I know you really want them to be, I can tell, but the Thomas Brothers wrote them as a hunters collecting trophies. "Sports hunters". That's their quote, not mine. And they have a honor code that allowed them to let Mike live, Leona live, Anna live, Ramon's girlfriend live, the kid at the cemetary live, and so on.
  11. EVILthePREDATOR
    @voodoo...

    “ And the viewed purpose of detonation is to remove all trace of the Predator and their tech.”

    Personally I think that’s speculative. It wasn’t really explained. It could very well of been but hurt that it lost a fair fight and tried to take Dutch with him.

    I think predator being sadistic fits far better with what it actually is, which is a space killing high tech alien from the far reaches of space.
    Than some sort of anti hero.

    For example the “mwahahahahaha” laugh he makes while taunting his victims can hardly be classed as honorable. He clearly took pleasure in bringing death on his prey. I.e sadistic. Just like when a cat catches a mouse and wants to f*ck with it for a bit before it kills it. It’s clearly doing it for self satisfaction. The very fact it takes trophies is very similar to mass murderers taking trophies from their victims, which is a common theme amongst psychopaths.

    I think a predator of the modern world should push the boat on being mr bad guy. Of course it’s only my opinion, but I just think a more savage primal predator is what’s needed. In other words no more dumbed down nonsense. It was made for adults it should stay that way.
  12. Voodoo Magic
    I don't understand the honour claims. Is it honorable for a fully armed special forces soldier to take out a small group armed with sticks and stones. Honorable to fistfight a guy who weighs 1/3 what you do. Like beating on a child.
    Also in the first movie when he loses, where's the honour in trying to blow up the guy who beat him?
    I dunno why people try to forget he was the bad guy. A complete dick.
    So they had to go out and invent nonsense like 'Bad Bloods'.
    Like Predators aren't already asshats

    Sports hunters have rules, code, honor, tradition, even showing respect to the prey before and after the kill.  Yeah they're in a tree, wearing camoflague, with a high powered scoped rifle... against a deer... but they feel they're being honorable by not shooting the young, a pregnant mother, etc. etc. Some even to this day use traditional weapons like a knife and sword to make the hunt more challenging.

    But yeah, regardless of all this, if the animals that humans hunt could talk, I'm pretty certain they'd say we were asshats too. :laugh:

    And the viewed purpose of detonation is to remove all trace of the Predator and their tech.
  13. SuperiorIronman
    I don't understand the honour claims. Is it honorable for a fully armed special forces soldier to take out a small group armed with sticks and stones. Honorable to fistfight a guy who weighs 1/3 what you do. Like beating on a child.
    Also in the first movie when he loses, where's the honour in trying to blow up the guy who beat him?
    I dunno why people try to forget he was the bad guy. A complete dick.
    So they had to go out and invent nonsense like 'Bad Bloods'.
    Like Predators aren't already asshats

    I don't think anybody forgot they are the antagonists it's just that there is way more that goes into it rather than them simply being slasher move character and probably why it's endured longer.

    -They wont kill kids unless there's an actual threat (remember the kid actually spotted a cloaked City Hunter)
    -They wont kill someone pregnant
    -They'll present a gift for a victory (later backed up in AVP)
    -Everybody sent to the game preserve is some form of dangerous killer
    -All Predator protagonists had the ability to fight back barring Mckenna

    There of course is things they gloss over like Edwin being a serial killer on a planet of nightmare monsters (so overall he's out of place), they'll kill mostly anybody with a gun if the challenge is there, and of course they demanded Human sacrifice.

    So yeah they are the antagonists, but there is a way they go about things which leads to a twisted honor code since of course they don't do things the way we would. And this gets even more complicated the further we go into the EU since much of the Honor code is further built there though the basics are just what we see in the film.
  14. Ronoc
    I don't understand the honour claims. Is it honorable for a fully armed special forces soldier to take out a small group armed with sticks and stones. Honorable to fistfight a guy who weighs 1/3 what you do. Like beating on a child.
    Also in the first movie when he loses, where's the honour in trying to blow up the guy who beat him?
    I dunno why people try to forget he was the bad guy. A complete dick.
    So they had to go out and invent nonsense like 'Bad Bloods'.
    Like Predators aren't already asshats
  15. SuperiorIronman
    If I had it my way I would opt for a lean on the religious practices. Taking a cue from Absolute Carnage, I'd have one come to Earth to fulfill a ritual by way of the hunt more than hunt for enjoyments sake. Largely because I feel like a bad blood would require an enforcer and that might be two PVP films too many. More I'd go for a deranged Predator in some sense. Like his presence and actions don't directly violate Predator law but he's enough of a problem someone has to go get him.

    In this case I'd opt for a Predator trying to summon one of their gods by way of spilled blood. They need a few specific kinds of bodies and ritualistic killings in specific places and the threat to the humans is figuring out who is next and how before the killer can get to them (Predator by way of Final Destination). While I would have an enforcer or two show up to clean up messes (like humans returning to collect evidence only to find the bodies and blood are gone) I wouldn't have them directly kill the Predator, more that they show up to collect the body and get a look at the bewildered survivors before they left. In the end that might also be an application of the storm scenario where the "god is summoned" only for it to actually be a particularly nasty hurricane where the ending takes place in.

    Given a lot of the films show the Predator in full, I'd also say that at no point should we get a proper view of any of them to raise tension. Since you never get a good look you don't know if one is the Enforcer or not or if the thing that just occurred was result of the Predator or not.
  16. EVILthePREDATOR
    Honor or no honor I think we can all agree that the next film needs to be scary and the violence should be thought provoking  and notched up to 💯 .

    Also what’s questionable to our own honor and morality might not be the same as theirs. Predator doesn’t like killing unarmed prey right?

    I have a very scene in my head, where a predator is monitoring insurgents and gathering intel from above. He sees them torturing and killing bound unarmed civilians. Because they are killing unarmed people and there’s no honor in it, Predator thinks it’s perfectly fine to teach them some manors, and evens the playing fields by capturing their evil commander and proceeds to flay him alive before taking his head all in graphic detail.

    So while we could have a “bad” predator in terms of brutal violence in scenes, it doesn’t  mean it has to be “mindless” when in fact you could be clever and make their honor code more complex.

    “He’s only a bad guy to to bad guys”

    With the viewer having some sympathy with the actions the creature is committing.

  17. Kurai
    Regardless, my concept doesn't have to do away with that entirely.

    The main Predator would be a psychopathic villain, which greatly increases the horror, but on its' defeat, we could have a scene similar to Predator 2 and the first AvP where the other Preds are like "Holy Fudge Buckets! You actually killed that bastard! Here, you want to come with us on our ship and hunt?" setting up a sequel in space.
    I just think that the Preds have been cringey and not scary lately. I want a scary Predator film where the folk expect honor and get screwed because of it. Have a scene where they're like, "Don't go in armed! It won't attack you, there's no sport!" and it's their famous last words.
    It would be more interesting for me and have them regain some of their otherness, where they can't just all be lumped into a single or a few categories based on preconceptions. Heck! You could even have it that it instead spares someone who did a great deal of damage to it, have it totally reversed so that it can come back and face that specific prey again some day.

    Going back and pandering to nostalgia will be a death cry for the series, but going forward into comic book territory like in The Predator is just as bad.
  18. Voodoo Magic
    Fought fair and square? The battle was fine but no sense of honor, ritual or code was presented to the audience. And the classic Predator was strung up which is quite a torture. Where's the honor portrayed to audiences in that?

    They literally provided the prey with weapons, they had numerous points where they could have slaughtered the prey outright and they didn't, they even entered into one on one unarmed combat when provided.
    The strung up Jungle Predator was from another clan they were enemies with. There's honor and then there's pathological adherence to "honor". They were showing that their enemies weren't worthy of honor and that makes perfect sense.
    No sense of ritual? The entire movie is one incredibly complex ritual.  :-\

    Yes, how people use the word ritual can be vague, and brushing our teeth every day many people call a "morning ritual", but I was referring more to the definition: a religious or solemn ceremony consisting of a series of actions performed according to a prescribed order.

    And come on, without trying to patch logic together, nothing was clearly conveyed to the audience that the Super Predators were honorable creatures. Just the opposite when they strung up the classic Predator. Torture does not equate to honor.

     
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    In the uneven film The Predator, the playing possum Fugitive let naked Casey survive, but conflictingly killed a bunch of other unarmed doctors in the lab. But that whole script is a mess.

    It's ambiguous here, I'll give you that, but I don't think he was playing possum, I think he had just woken up and was desperate to escape. The scientists could very well have drugged him again and he was eliminating that threat. Again, there's honor and then there's pathological adherence to a code when it makes no sense.>

    In the script the Fugitive is playing possum, but I agree it's ambiguous in the movie.


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    In the camper? Watch it again. That had nothing to do with honor but rather mission. "Tracking stolen cargo." The humans at that point wasn't its primary concern.

    Primary concern or not, it gave the humans a fair head start and even gave them opportunities to set traps when it could have easily have slaughtered the bunch of them, taken the kid and headed home for the day.

    That's a stretch. Come on. No one left the theater thinking wow, that 11 foot Upgrade Predator sure had a code of honor. I highly doubt most anyone came away with that.

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    In Predator 1 and 2 there was not killing the unarmed. Not killing the young. Not killing the pregnant. Respecting the prey when it kills a fellow Predator, even rewarding the prey.

    No... any sense of honor, ritual or code has not been been ramped up clearly to audiences in the Predator movies since Predator 2. Just the opposite. It's been marginalized.

    I disagree but then I guess we're at a roadblock.  :-\
    Even The Predator, the one I'm closest to agreeing with you about has clear examples showing that you're wrong, one you even listed yourself, and again the very premise of the movie, with the delivering of the Predator Killer armor is another clear sign of your fractal wrongness on the topic.

    The premise of a Predator wanting to help us on it's own, agreed. But the actual result of a fractured film, fractured script, killing innocent humans you want to save, the premise of "honor" and code is so lost to the audience.. especially comparing it to the ending of Predator 2 where it was clearly expressed, not marginalized.


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    Predators even had the Jungle Hunter respect Royce after being freed.

    Yes, a save for a save was good. That's why I said it "basically non-existent" in the last two films versus non-existent.  I would like to bring that to the forefront again. But that's just me.

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    And, while I wouldn't count it, it's fun to add that the Predator Hound in the Predator, turned good after being defeated.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    That scene is just too cringey to comment!  :laugh:
  19. Kurai
    Read what I said again. I said "Predator movies". Not AvP movies.

    I read that, but this is a clear example.

    Fought fair and square? The battle was fine but no sense of honor, ritual or code was presented to the audience. And the classic Predator was strung up which is quite a torture. Where's the honor portrayed to audiences in that?

    They literally provided the prey with weapons, they had numerous points where they could have slaughtered the prey outright and they didn't, they even entered into one on one unarmed combat when provided.
    The strung up Jungle Predator was from another clan they were enemies with. There's honor and then there's pathological adherence to "honor". They were showing that their enemies weren't worthy of honor and that makes perfect sense.
    No sense of ritual? The entire movie is one incredibly complex ritual.  :-\

    In the uneven film The Predator, the playing possum Fugitive let naked Casey survive, but conflictingly killed a bunch of other unarmed doctors in the lab. But that whole script is a mess.

    It's ambiguous here, I'll give you that, but I don't think he was playing possum, I think he had just woken up and was desperate to escape. The scientists could very well have drugged him again and he was eliminating that threat. Again, there's honor and then there's pathological adherence to a code when it makes no sense.

    In the camper? Watch it again. That had nothing to do with honor but rather mission. "Tracking stolen cargo." The humans at that point wasn't its primary concern.

    Primary concern or not, it gave the humans a fair head start and even gave them opportunities to set traps when it could have easily have slaughtered the bunch of them, taken the kid and headed home for the day.

    In Predator 1 and 2 there was not killing the unarmed. Not killing the young. Not killing the pregnant. Respecting the prey when it kills a fellow Predator, even rewarding the prey.

    No... any sense of honor, ritual or code has not been been ramped up clearly to audiences in the Predator movies since Predator 2. Just the opposite. It's been marginalized.
    I disagree but then I guess we're at a roadblock.  :-\
    Even The Predator, the one I'm closest to agreeing with you about has clear examples showing that you're wrong, one you even listed yourself, and again the very premise of the movie, with the delivering of the Predator Killer armor is another clear sign of your fractal wrongness on the topic.

    Predators even had the Jungle Hunter respect Royce after being freed.

    And, while I wouldn't count it, it's fun to add that the Predator Hound in the Predator, turned good after being defeated.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
  20. Darkness
    Indeed, I didn't expect your new microphone Xenomorphine - you sound so clear now.

    It would have been nice to have somebody who liked The Predator on the podcast. It was a bit hard to listen to the three of you slate something you liked. Well, I don't love the movie but I don't think it's as bad as you guys are making it out to be.
  21. Voodoo Magic
    I agree with the idea of taking a Predator and removing the "honor" from it for some intense horror.

    Have a crew of folks familiar with the Predator's regular MO face it down in the Middle East only to be skinned alive and tortured by a Predator psychopath.

    The hunting code and honor has been basically non-existent in the last two Predator movies. That aspect is actually what seperates Predator from the hundreds of psychopathic ho-hum monsters that just kill, kill, kill and it is what makes Predator so interesting and different.

    They can still be extremely scary and brutal, but I think it's time to return to what made them special in the first place. :)

    Highly disagree here.
    We had AvP and Scar was a stand up dude with a moral compass

    Read what I said again. I said "Predator movies". Not AvP movies.

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    We had Predators, and even the Super Predators there fought somewhat fair and square. They fought like game hunters at worst.

    Fought fair and square? The battle was fine but no sense of honor, ritual or code was presented to the audience. And the classic Predator was strung up which is quite a torture. Where's the honor portrayed to audiences in that?

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    Then The Predator, we literally have one Predator apparently going out of their way to bring us a weapon because their moral code was triggered.

    In the uneven film The Predator, the playing possum Fugitive let naked Casey survive, but conflictingly killed a bunch of other unarmed doctors in the lab. But that whole script is a mess.

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    Sure the Upgrade Predator was a bit brutal, but even he gave time for the humans to get away.

    In the camper? Watch it again. That had nothing to do with honor but rather mission. "Tracking stolen cargo." The humans at that point wasn't its primary concern.

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    You are totally wrong here. :laugh:
    If anything, the honor thing has been ramped up.

    In Predator 1 and 2 there was not killing the unarmed. Not killing the young. Not killing the pregnant. Respecting the prey when it kills a fellow Predator, even rewarding the prey.

    No... any sense of honor, ritual or code has not been been ramped up clearly to audiences in the Predator movies since Predator 2. Just the opposite. It's been marginalized.
  22. Kurai
    I agree with the idea of taking a Predator and removing the "honor" from it for some intense horror.

    Have a crew of folks familiar with the Predator's regular MO face it down in the Middle East only to be skinned alive and tortured by a Predator psychopath.

    The hunting code and honor has been basically non-existent in the last two Predator movies. That aspect is actually what seperates Predator from the hundreds of psychopathic ho-hum monsters that just kill, kill, kill and it is what makes Predator so interesting and different.

    They can still be extremely scary and brutal, but I think it's time to return to what made them special in the first place. :)

    Highly disagree here.
    We had AvP and Scar was a stand up dude with a moral compass
    We had Predators, and even the Super Predators there fought somewhat fair and square. They fought like game hunters at worst.
    AvP:R where Wolf was just there to do a job and, apart from a single kill that may have been a bit questionable, he just did his best to get shit done.
    Then The Predator, we literally have one Predator apparently going out of their way to bring us a weapon because their moral code was triggered. Sure the Upgrade Predator was a bit brutal, but even he gave time for the humans to get away.

    You are totally wrong here. :laugh:
    If anything, the honor thing has been ramped up.
  23. Voodoo Magic
    I agree with the idea of taking a Predator and removing the "honor" from it for some intense horror.

    Have a crew of folks familiar with the Predator's regular MO face it down in the Middle East only to be skinned alive and tortured by a Predator psychopath.

    The hunting code and honor has been basically non-existent in the last two Predator movies. That aspect is actually what seperates Predator from the hundreds of psychopathic ho-hum monsters that just kill, kill, kill and it is what makes Predator so interesting and different.

    They can still be extremely scary and brutal, but I think it's time to return to what made them special in the first place. :)
  24. Kradan
    Yeah, I have to agree on moving away from the Predator on Predator conflict. As much as I love Predators, I do think that angle wasn't best handled and The Predator just botched it completely. I'd like to see them avoid it completely if they do make another film.

    If I'm not going to get my World War 2 or Vietnam Predator film, I'd like to see it take place somewhere relevant in the modern times. I think Hunters 2 had a good idea with going to Afghanistan as it allows it tie into the mythology of the region with the Genies/Djinns aspect. I'd like something like that.

    The Bloody Sands of Time movie adaption, please .
  25. EVILthePREDATOR
    @Kurai

    Absolutely bang on bro! Predator hunts man for sport. He should be brutal and terrifying. And the camera shouldn’t shy away from it. The audience should feel that fear. It’s what made the original such a classic.

    If people can’t handle it then perhaps they should watch something else. Predator always had horror in it. It was always designed to make the audience feel helpless.

    I want to see a true reflection of predator in our times now, that’s powerful, brutal and terrifying.


    Food for thought, Bad predator drops in Afghanistan.  Now perhaps he’s torturing these men for trophies, because he’s seen those same men torturing other men from the shadows?

    Adding a layer of complexity to their honor system.
  26. Kurai
    Creators trying to force faux relatability into everything, by placing the Predator into the suburbs (twice now they've done it and twice they've failed), or trying to peel back the veil and drain the creatures of their mystery and otherness, is a real plague in cinema right now.

    I agree with the idea of taking a Predator and removing the "honor" from it for some intense horror.

    Have a crew of folks familiar with the Predator's regular MO face it down in the Middle East only to be skinned alive and tortured by a Predator psychopath. Having it do something truly messed up like slowly removing bones for an amulet from its' still breathing victim, go full on vivisection.
    It would be absolutely terrifying. It's all the things that make us afraid of psychopathy, but this time actually attached to a powerful superhuman level entity filled with malice.

    God... Just thinking about it, I don't think I'm gonna sleep well.  :-X
  27. Still Collating...
    If I'm not going to get my World War 2 or Vietnam Predator film, I'd like to see it take place somewhere relevant in the modern times. I think Hunters 2 had a good idea with going to Afghanistan as it allows it tie into the mythology of the region with the Genies/Djinns aspect. I'd like something like that.

    I'm also a fan of a Predator hunting during a storm idea that's been tossed around a lot, and used to a lesser effective degree in "If it Bleeds".  I can visualize the film trailer where the first 30 seconds is dealing with characters trying to grapple with "the greatest storm on record", but if-things-weren't-bad-enough, a Predator shows up to hunt. I can also visualize a crazy finale where debris is flying everywhere while the protagonist and Predator is going at it.

    A simple but a great and fitting premise for a Predator story.
  28. EVILthePREDATOR
    I like the storm scenario voodoo! EPIC
    It sure is great seeing people’s different angles!

    Long live AVPgalaxy!

    I can just imagine actually the protagonist all battered and bruised saying “Feel the rain! There’s no place to hide now you ugly son of a bit*h!”

    Would make for a totally badass climax.
  29. Voodoo Magic
    If I'm not going to get my World War 2 or Vietnam Predator film, I'd like to see it take place somewhere relevant in the modern times. I think Hunters 2 had a good idea with going to Afghanistan as it allows it tie into the mythology of the region with the Genies/Djinns aspect. I'd like something like that.

    I'm also a fan of a Predator hunting during a storm idea that's been tossed around a lot, and used to a lesser effective degree in "If it Bleeds".  I can visualize the film trailer where the first 30 seconds is dealing with characters trying to grapple with "the greatest storm on record", but if-things-weren't-bad-enough, a Predator shows up to hunt. I can also visualize a crazy finale where debris is flying everywhere while the protagonist and Predator is going at it.
  30. EVILthePREDATOR
    Corporal hick, I agree about the predator vs predator situation. It just doesn’t work imo and takes away from what this franchise was supposed to be about.

    I just think a more evil predator could work. Which is why I call myself that on avp galaxy!  ;D

     In terms of out and out horror and fear factor, the brutality of what these aliens are about should be raw and uncensored. It would be an interesting direction IMO.

    A predator that conducts acts of savagery and is scary AF is where I’d like to see this franchise go. No more jokes and straight up terror is something I’d love to see happen. Even if it is a coded hunter.

    Btw world war 2 or Vietnam is a great idea and could work on so many levels. Also hunters 2 is the closest Iv seen so far to how I’d like predator to be in modern times.

    Because let’s be honest if it was modern times, it would be the conflict zones they would likely use as their game reserve.

    There’s a lot going on in the world right now that could really give predator an air of realism it’s been lacking for years.

    The next film needs to take risks and be mature and intelligent in its story and characters. What ever that may be..

    In the end, as long as a new film targets over 18s I’ll be on board. I just don’t ever want to waste money again watching a cheesy dumbed down version of my favorite all time character.

    I don’t think a huge budget (although nice 👍) is needed to make a decent film either. It just needs a decent script that’s believable and true to the franchises roots, with decent characters that you can actually invest in emotionally. Every death should be felt. That’s what good horror does best imo.

  31. Corporal Hicks
    Yeah, I have to agree on moving away from the Predator on Predator conflict. As much as I love Predators, I do think that angle wasn't best handled and The Predator just botched it completely. I'd like to see them avoid it completely if they do make another film.

    If I'm not going to get my World War 2 or Vietnam Predator film, I'd like to see it take place somewhere relevant in the modern times. I think Hunters 2 had a good idea with going to Afghanistan as it allows it tie into the mythology of the region with the Genies/Djinns aspect. I'd like something like that.
  32. EVILthePREDATOR
    Fair point voodoo! I wasn’t thinking bad blood exactly, but I see where you’re coming from.
    I just thought it could give the first one even more weight in that Dutch killing it was so rare, it really wasn’t supposed to happen, and now they are pissed off perhaps? And send in one of their most feared members to come and teach humanity a lesson in the galactic apex system, which is.. “don’t f*ck with us”  ;D
  33. Voodoo Magic
     like the idea of a rogue predator that’s not playing by the normal rules and has revenge on its mind, what ever that may be. Perhaps in a flash back sequence we find out why. (Revenge for the original creatures death perhaps?) 

    At least for me, I've gotten my fill of rogue Predators for now thanks to "Predators" and "The Predator". Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of Bad Bloods and would love to see the idea done spectacularly right, but I think for the next Predator installment, if it's one day in theaters or just streaming, they need to get back to basics and give us a single code following, hunting Predator in the vein of Predator and Predator 2 imo.
  34. EVILthePREDATOR
    @ voodoo Magic.

    I really like where you’re going with that. Could definitely work! Totally!

    I also think it needs to go back to basics with a reimagining of the character. And absolutely it should be just one predator.

    Now by no means am I blood thirsty. But predator skins people etc, and that’s a hunter playing by the rules. Imagine what a bad predator is capable of.  We need to see it happen as it’s in context and brings home, how heinous this creature actually is. Gore is part an parcel of this characters make up. I don’t want to see another dumbed down movie aimed at teens.

    I want to come out of the cinema horrified after what this ancient alien hunter is capable of, yet at the same time fascinated by its mystery.

     I like the idea of a rogue predator that’s not playing by the normal rules and has revenge on its mind, what ever that may be. Perhaps in a flash back sequence we find out why. (Revenge for the original creatures death perhaps?)

    I don’t know 🤷‍♂️

    All I know is the next film needs to be aimed at over 18s.

    And it will be probably be its last chance to get it right, before Hollywood gives up on the property entirely.

    Let’s hope who ever directs again, they take a hard look at what went wrong. So mistakes are not repeated.
  35. Voodoo Magic
    Voodoo do you think a serious take on predator is the way out of the hole the franchise has found itself in?

    To me? Definitely. And get back to basics!  Go back to only one single Predator hunter again. After two movies, no more Predator vs Predator this time around.

    For some reason my comment never registered so I’ll have to write it again.

    IMO Predator will remain broken until the directors stop pushing the cheesy throw backs and comedy. Which isn’t even funny!

    Iv said this a thousand times, the original predator film was never intended to be a comedy. Sure it had over the top jokes in it, but as Dutch and his team realize the gravity of their situation. The jokes dry up rather rapidly. 

    Now.

    I believe predator was a product of its time. Vietnam was still fresh on people’s minds. It had a lot to say about the culture of the 80s at that point.

    Consider this, isn’t it time for a predator film to say something about our times now? In a world where war is rapidly rising and terrorism is rife. Isn’t this the perfect backdrop to do something interesting and original?

    Be it the Middle East, Mexico or even Brazil take your pick. They all have extreme brutality happening in those places. Predator would be perfect for that kind of environment.

    I think the next film needs to take risks, be intelligent, dark, horrifying and mature. Made for adults by adults. I want to feel the true awe and horror of what a predator is about.

    Just interested in hearing everyone’s views on this.

    I repeat this is ONLY my opinion.


    The middle east sounds appealing to me. Maybe the final showdown can take place with the protagonist luring the Predator into the desert. No trees. No buildings. No cover.  Just him, and me.
  36. Xiggz456
    Ridgetop mentioned needing to have a drink in order to “enhance” the viewing experience and I couldn’t agree more  :laugh:

    My wife and I actually made a drinking game back in November when the film was released digitally. The rules basically make fun of the film’s tropes. Some rules include:

    Drink every time It’s mentioned that McKenna is a sniper/killer

    Drink every time Olivia Munn says something science-y

    Drink every time Rory figures out predator tech

    Drink every time the loonies crack a joke

    Etc. there’s a few more rules that I can’t remember but we wrote them down so maybe I’ll start a new thread with all the rules if people are interested lol. But it does make the movie more fun this way haha.

    That's a lot of drinking!  I'd be surprised to hear you both haven't passed out before the movie ended! :laugh:

     :laugh: Oh ya we got all faded! We drink Michelob Ultra (cuz we count calories) it’s only like 4% alcohol so nothing too heavy. But do not try playing this with hard alcohol or you will die lol.

    @evilthepredator I agree that a more serious take would be preferred after this one. If they want humor it should be dark humor not punchlines.
  37. EVILthePREDATOR
    For some reason my comment never registered so I’ll have to write it again.

    IMO Predator will remain broken until the directors stop pushing the cheesy throw backs and comedy. Which isn’t even funny!

    Iv said this a thousand times, the original predator film was never intended to be a comedy. Sure it had over the top jokes in it, but as Dutch and his team realize the gravity of their situation. The jokes dry up rather rapidly. 

    Now.

    I believe predator was a product of its time. Vietnam was still fresh on people’s minds. It had a lot to say about the culture of the 80s at that point.

    Consider this, isn’t it time for a predator film to say something about our times now? In a world where war is rapidly rising and terrorism is rife. Isn’t this the perfect backdrop to do something interesting and original?

    Be it the Middle East, Mexico or even Brazil take your pick. They all have extreme brutality happening in those places. Predator would be perfect for that kind of environment.

    I think the next film needs to take risks, be intelligent, dark, horrifying and mature. Made for adults by adults. I want to feel the true awe and horror of what a predator is about.

    Just interested in hearing everyone’s views on this.

    I repeat this is ONLY my opinion.



  38. Voodoo Magic
    Ridgetop mentioned needing to have a drink in order to “enhance” the viewing experience and I couldn’t agree more  :laugh:

    My wife and I actually made a drinking game back in November when the film was released digitally. The rules basically make fun of the film’s tropes. Some rules include:

    Drink every time It’s mentioned that McKenna is a sniper/killer

    Drink every time Olivia Munn says something science-y

    Drink every time Rory figures out predator tech

    Drink every time the loonies crack a joke

    Etc. there’s a few more rules that I can’t remember but we wrote them down so maybe I’ll start a new thread with all the rules if people are interested lol. But it does make the movie more fun this way haha.

    That's a lot of drinking!  I'd be surprised to hear you both haven't passed out before the movie ended! :laugh:
  39. Xiggz456
    Ridgetop mentioned needing to have a drink in order to “enhance” the viewing experience and I couldn’t agree more  :laugh:

    My wife and I actually made a drinking game back in November when the film was released digitally. The rules basically make fun of the film’s tropes. Some rules include:

    Drink every time It’s mentioned that McKenna is a sniper/killer

    Drink every time Olivia Munn says something science-y

    Drink every time Rory figures out predator tech

    Drink every time the loonies crack a joke

    Etc. there’s a few more rules that I can’t remember but we wrote them down so maybe I’ll start a new thread with all the rules if people are interested lol. But it does make the movie more fun this way haha.
  40. Voodoo Magic
    I seem to recall that James Franco was considered an option for Boyd's character.  I may be completely misremembering this bit of information, or maybe it wasn't "official", but if I am remembering it correctly, do you think he would have been a better choice?

    Maybe? Slightly? Neither would be my preference.

    To me, with Predator, the ideal situation is to have the lead actor to have gravitas. One with that je ne sais quoi quality that performs a bit over-the-top. While casting, decide that acting comes secondary to charisma. Charisma is tops. Like why Arnold Schwarzenegger was cast as Conan back in 1982, but to a lesser degree.

    It's like the cast of 300 which made Gerald Butler an above-the-title star. Its easy to get muscle bound men, and some of them can even act better than Gerald.

    https://www.redringtones.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/spartans-what-is-your-profession.jpg

    But make acting secondary and find someone that the camera loves with a slight over-the-top performance that can chew scenery. That should be priority in my opinion.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/adl0w2kBglQ/hqdefault.jpg

    Quote
    I find the characters in Predator films to be so animated in how they speak, carry themselves, etc.  Even when they're "reserved" (i.e. Brody), they're not.  Boyd's character just seemed kind of...bland in particular.  I don't know if it just boils down to how he was written or how he brought the character to life. And I think that goes for some of the other cast - was it the writing or the acting that made the characters fall flat?

    I think writing can have an effect to a degree, but I put it squarely on the shoulder of Boyd i.e. casting.  Remember when Boyd says something to the effect of "touch me again and I'll break your neck".  Now imagine Jesse Ventura saying that line. Or Sonny Landham. Or Ron Perlman. It changes right? It improves? Less flat, right? A million people can act better than Jesse, but top acting is not what's required here.

    No, Shane Black didn't have that gravitas in Predator (which makes sense why he died first). No Ruben Blades didn't have that gravitas in Predator 2 (which makes sense why he died first).  But when the whole entire cast less one doesn't have it in a Predator film, that one being Sterling K. Brown in The Predator, you have a severe casting problem in my opinion.  :)
  41. Wysps
    f**king finally !!!  ;D

    Seriously though, It's pretty sad to me that movie only went down for you guys . I still enjoy it and gonna rewatch it but understand there's some big flaws with it . For me it's now what's Requiem for RidgeTop . I'll never agree it's as bad though .

    P.S. Still hoping for Isolation's walkthrough and 5th anniversary podcast. That should be great !

    Not sure about which one's worse atm, but I will say that my disappointment for The Predator is just as great as for Requiem :-\  Maybe even more so, since I had much higher expectations for The Predator.

    Quote
    That said, I don't think the Loonies were particularly grounded. I couldn't envision them working in an Alien film.

    That's why I kept saying the "actors", not the characters.  :) I don't believe the Loonies belong in an Alien film either.  But the Loonie actors to me are character actors, and they are more suited for an Alien film. Boyd Holbrook should have been a red shirted officer at the most in a Predator film imo. Larger than life Ron Perlman as the protagonist on the otherhand, is more suited for Predator in my eyes.

    I seem to recall that James Franco was considered an option for Boyd's character.  I may be completely misremembering this bit of information, or maybe it wasn't "official", but if I am remembering it correctly, do you think he would have been a better choice?  I find the characters in Predator films to be so animated in how they speak, carry themselves, etc.  Even when they're "reserved" (i.e. Brody), they're not.  Boyd's character just seemed kind of...bland in particular.  I don't know if it just boils down to how he was written or how he brought the character to life. And I think that goes for some of the other cast - was it the writing or the acting that made the characters fall flat?
  42. Voodoo Magic
    Granted, you weren't as absolute as "need", but I still disagree. I don't think you can do exaggerated humans as successfully now as when the first film came out. It just doesn't feel as right to me. But that's just my take on that.

    Hmm. That's interesting. For these fans of this genre of film, I think the exaggeration in Predator and Predator 2 is thought of more fondly than ever. Much like Shane Black's The Nice Guys brought back the buddy cop movie, I think it would not only work but be embraced in the nostalgic mania of today. That would be my bet at least. 
  43. Kradan
    f**king finally !!!  ;D

    Seriously though, It's pretty sad to me that movie only went down for you guys . I still enjoy it and gonna rewatch it but understand there's some big flaws with it . For me it's now what's Requiem for RidgeTop . I'll never agree it's as bad though .

    P.S. Still hoping for Isolation's walkthrough and 5th anniversary podcast. That should be great !

  44. Corporal Hicks
    Hey, you're quoting a word I didn't say.  I said "works best", I didn't say "need".  :P

    In regards to formula, Xenomorphine was mentioning formula in this very podcast... that you have to make a "Predator film" that the Predator is a weapons specialist not a Hulk and it should finish the movie going mano e mano with one or two heroes . But me saying Predator works best when the humans are more exaggerated, larger than life, comic book like characters is not restricting at all if you consider that a formula - and it's a loose one at that. You still can write any story you want and convey any emotion you want including fear and sorrow with larger than life exaggerated humans.

    Granted, you weren't as absolute as "need", but I still disagree. I don't think you can do exaggerated humans as successfully now as when the first film came out. It just doesn't feel as right to me. But that's just my take on that.

    Quote
    That's why I kept saying the "actors", not the characters.  :)

    Yeah, that's my bad.
  45. Voodoo Magic
    Alien works best is when the human characters are normal, grounded regular men and women.  Predator works best when the humans are opposite of that, i.e. more exaggerated, larger than life, comic book like characters. The Loonie acrors on their own were fine, but they had no business being in a Predator film in my humble opinion.

    Give the Loonies actors to Alien Resurrection and give the Alien Resurrection actors to The Predator and only 99 more fixes to go to fix both movies.  :)

    I can't agree with that. Predator doesn't "need" exaggerated characters to work well. I say it all the time - Predator is such a versatile series. It doesn't need a formula to work.

    Hey, you're quoting a word I didn't say.  I said "works best", I didn't say "need".  :P

    In regards to formula, Xenomorphine was mentioning formula in this very podcast... that you have to make a "Predator film" that the Predator is a weapons specialist not a Hulk and it should finish the movie going mano e mano with one or two heroes . But me saying Predator works best when the humans are more exaggerated, larger than life, comic book like characters is not restricting at all if you consider that a formula - and it's a loose one at that. You still can write any story you want and convey any emotion you want including fear and sorrow with larger than life exaggerated humans.

    Quote
    That said, I don't think the Loonies were particularly grounded. I couldn't envision them working in an Alien film.

    That's why I kept saying the "actors", not the characters.  :) I don't believe the Loonies belong in an Alien film either.  But the Loonie actors to me are character actors, and they are more suited for an Alien film. Boyd Holbrook should have been a red shirted officer at the most in a Predator film imo. Larger than life Ron Perlman as the protagonist on the otherhand, is more suited for Predator in my eyes.

    It's like if I had Brie Larson and Ronda Rousey to use as protagonists in a new Alien and Predator film. Unless it's Colonial Marines, it doesn't even require thought. Academy Award winning Brie goes to Alien and Championship Athlete Ronda Rousey to Predator, and that choice works best for both franchises. Plus Rhonda will appear like a helluva oponent to a Predator! :)

    Alien Antagonist:
    https://www.yournextshoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Brie-Larson-in-Schiaparelli-Couture-Smiling.jpg

    Predator Antagonist:
    https://www.maxim.com/.image/t_share/MTM1MTQ0MzE1Mzg3NDgzNDEw/placeholder-title.jpg

  46. AVP-CAPCOM
    Thanks hicks and xenomorphine.

    Blue microphones "snowball models" are affordable at £40.00 from some outlets. I was panicking you might have gone for the DJ £300 ones- but sound on a £40 is good as. Seen many youtubers have the same mic on twitch livestreams.

    Going back to cinemas its a common complaint in google reviews of "film not in focus" or "not set-up right". I cannot stress that Director's often change camera's or contrast based on predicted cinema set-ups and they often don't match.
    AVP-Requiem, The Hobbit and Avenger's all suffered during cinema releases.
    Again if your home viewing experience is superior we may end up with straight to Blu-Ray or TV quality films.


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