Cinemart have just posted up what seems to be two new images of an actual prop used in Prometheus. According to their studio source, this prop is a prosthetic mask designed specifically for an actor to wear and described as the face design for “the alien”. Which certainly looks like the Space Jockey seen in ALIEN. You can read their own description of the mask below.
“The prop (organic looking design), in mould stage (white coloured), is a human skull with large eye sockets (slightly apart than normal) and what looks like another layer of bone having grown over it. The extra layer is in the form of what we know as the facehugger (without the legs). There is a trunk-like nose where the creature’s tail would naturally be in this position (or the appendage underneath used to lay the egg into a recipient). The prop is a prosthetic mask without makeup added, but the insider also said the creature featured in Prometheus has been executed with very little CGI planned. The appearance of the mask is of a human skull with facehugger frame on top.”
Yes, that's right. It's an ASDF movie for the big screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuPig4-48V0#
Could this be the chair turned alive by the genesis ooze?!
100% Agreed, two species and then whatever the monster/vulture in the myth is. It seems like they might place the "gods" as the owners of that saucer-looking craft, and the Titan race as the space Jockey; however, I could easily see it being the other way around. The gods atop mount Olympus are depicted as very human, have character flaws, full personalities etc. So these could actually be the tall, bald guy(s). Also matches the Nephillim, Annunaki, and in a way the legends about the tall, pale Atlanteans.
Prometheus/the Jockey Race, being Titans, can still be the Elder gods that are later replaced by the Olympian gods, often described brutally, but in metaphor. These are decidedly less human characters when you really look at it. For example Gaia, the idea of the Earth Goddess, is a Titan. The greek myths talk about one of the Titans, I think Kronos, being castrated by Zeus as part of their cosmology (idea of how the cosmos/earth came into being) and takes place above the Earth. Later on Prometheus is practically seen as a servant to the "gods" who reign alongside Zeus.
So the "gods" replace some of the Titans as rulers over the Earth in a sense. This may be key, because it has lots to do with Prometheus going against the wishes of the gods and giving humanity the flame like in the story that we all should know by now. What most probably don't know is that Kronos was devouring his children because he knew one of them would eventually overthrow him. This is why I believe the idea that the Space Jockey became a slave race of the gods is true. Gaia hides the child in a cave deep in the bowels of the Earth/herself, where Kronos can't see. And eventually that child comes back and castrates him, reigning monsters down across the land in the process as his dripping blood/semen falls in the ocean, creating islands .Much later there is a war between the Titans and the gods, and Prometheus lives with the current round of humanity on the Earth. Then his whole story starts, where he helps the humans by giving them the flame.
I think the gods' punished the Jockey/Titans by taking them off-Earth with them in the distant past; stranding them on distant rocks, and making them a slave species, test subjects, fused creatures, and hosts for their genetic experiments i.e. the vultures. I think the gods are actually represented by that human-like child(Zeus) that grew to castrate and enslave its maker (The Jockey/Kronos) raining down and creating the first wave of the Greek monsters into the ocean.
There's a chance the tall, bald guy is originally from Earth in the Ancient Past, but they came to rule over those that made them. And that the Jockey may still be a creature inside the suit.
Some thing inside a biological suit?
Or better yet, Bio Booster Armor Guyver!!!!
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.betamonline.com%2Fsdimages%2Fupc10%2F704400097546.jpg&hash=141675e9d349c12e614ff7e8e8da3d31610a7138
That's true, but if you are going back to deal with the creature's origins it may be something that you want to address. You might look closely at the creature and try to work out a logical evolutionary path to each and every aspect of it, at the very least to inform your future design decisions. It's kinda like creating exhaustive back stories for the crew of the Nostromo. It fleshes out the concepts and informs the film, even though it is never actually addressed on screen.
I like the idea of the tubes having some evolutionary function personally. A trait it inherits from it's parent. I'm betting the Jockey is going to have something very similar.
-Chris
The above all caps exuberant Predator rant was complete sarcasm aiming at those desperate for a Predator connection. I couldn't want anything less if I tried.
I also like the tubes on the original creature...I thought it contributed to its otherworldliness quite well. The tubes don't need to make sense because the alien itself doesn't make sense. The creature in ALIEN3 lacked them and it never felt balanced.
I recently read that Giger came to dislike his inclusion of the "pipes" along the original Alien's dorsal spine/back. I understand his artistic motivation for including these protrusions was in order to "break up the creatures human shape". Frankly, I think this detail was a stroke of genius. He probably came to view these as a bit "tacky". However, I think the fact that they are so outrageous, and do not make any obvious biological "sense", is what makes the creature all the more "alien" and surreal.
God created the predator species, who breed humans through the ampule samples so they can hunt Homo sapiens sapiens for sport. After the Prometheus crew mess around with TecHishnology, the facehugger species is born, attacks the PILOT YAUTJA (Reponsible for transporting human seed across the universe to hunt), and melts into the predators face. As the rest of the metal jockey TRANSPORT SHIP turns into an organic and bone like form, the hugged pilot crashes the ship onto LV-426. The jockey "tube" is really the hugger tail attached to the Hish's face. The predalien is born and now, the remaining Yautja crew (Dall, Ripper, and Parckker), must team up with Noomi and Theron to defeat the new, xenomorph alien extraterrestrial species once and for all.
I don't see the point of impregnating something that isn't living, you would think it needs a living source to do so. But the other thing you said interests me...
So instead of Prometheus being chained to a rock, (If that is how the "Prometheus" lore goes, I'm not 100 percent sure.) we have the Jockey attached to a chair? Interesting, I never thought of it that way.
Lol
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F666kb.com%2Fi%2Fc0csdsxgpdmpms7pm.jpg&hash=c7eaa2b2b3d05f93d1a35fc1418b609fa06a0b4d
THEY PROBABLY CREATED THE SPACE JOCKEYS AFTERALL...I WONDER IF RIDLEY WILL INCLUDE HOW THEY WERE MADE AND MAYBE WE'LL SEE A PROTO PREDATOR? AFTER ALL THE JUMPING GUY IN THE TRAILER LOOKS PREDATORISH!!!
FACT!!!!!!
LOLz....
ich liebe dch!
there's the evidence. the jockey weared a facehugger, all along and now we know, that they don't just create the aliens and humans, but the predator, too!
you people should deal more with the ancient astronaut theory (prä-astronautik), instead of the dubious proto-facehugger.
aliens made US. i love it, that the movie deals with this theme.
Well, there have been many discussions involving people thinking that the tube inserted into the old space jockey was a facehugger
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gigerworkcatalog.com%2Fphotos%2Ftampere%2Foriginal%2Ftampere_13.jpg&hash=c9fb48517b50f745d4dac71e80375e820d5aa907
On a related note...I'd love it if Ridley pushed the new design this direction....I've always believed this lil' guy is pretty terrfying.
I don't think you can breed the "alien" out of the Alien. On that theory given enough generations a human embryo would be implanted...
My assumption has always been that the Xeno's were created and as such will function the same unless genetically tampered with.
1) Organism + SJ's = whatever is responsible for the eggs in Alien
2) Alien egg organism + Kane = the xeno we know and love
3) 2nd generation xeno + human = don't know. Perhaps if each parent, throughout each generation, were a human... the xeno's would themselves become more human in appearance??? We got an element of those more human qualities in Aliens, it could be argued
Very much so. Think of it this way: if you had to reconstruct where the alien came from in a way that tied faithfully back into the original film, you would take into account every aspect of the original monster. It's human-like form comes from it's host, but it's non-human-like aspects come from the SJ. Why does it have those seemingly useless 'tubes' on it's back? Maybe because it's 'parent' had the same thing in order to plug into the chair?
Why does it have a tail? Errr...
Acid for blood? Umm...
-Chris
I quite often thought it was. Interesting.
Unless it was dead, or somehow incapacitated, or, by virtue of being in the chair, unable to move at all. One theme that stands out is that the Jockey is some kind of sacrificial lamb, a theme that has strong echoes of the Prometheus myth. The SJ is frozen in it's seat, as if it was in the middle of doing it's everyday thing - there are no signs of any kind of struggle.
-Chris
Stop thinking an alien queen layed an egg that spawned a facehugger that impregnated a sj that burst out and became a queen that layed eggs in the basement of the sj craft blah blah blah
I think I've seen this image they are talking about.. I there is an image in the released trailer that I would like to share, but no one has caught on.. I've looked all over the web and no one has reported this image.. would anyone like to see.. I don't know who to go to with this... so I figured this is the best place.. right?
Hardly enough though, it would only have room from the sides, which isn't much at all, so it can't really get a good grip and the Jockey could easily knock it off itself.
The Jockey's mouth is open, so the facehugger still had 'access' (ugh). The other possibility is that there was no facehugger at all but rather the mask it wears is somehow the breeding device. An idea was posted a while back that the SJ was chestbursted out of necessity due to the SJ being in distress or dead.
I myself have always wondered why the SJ seems to have a reversed rib cage, the ribs coming from the back and touching, but not joining, at the front. It could be that they give birth this way and the SJ being dead forced the 'baby' to break it's way free. Humans, same thing.
A good summary of the entire series.
-Chris
So I think it would have to be a mask for this to happen, the Jockey must not have been wearing it at the time that the Facehugger impregnated it.
-Chris
Well said!
i don't get one thing: why has THE SUIT to look exactly as his wearer??
the bald guy could wear that helmet, too.
if the jockey suit adapts the wearer appearance and change the look, depending on it's dna, that would be the contrary effect of a chestburster; that uses the dna of the host to evolve and look like it's host (bipedal, etc.).
his accent: just hilarious!
In the Longer version of "Alien Evolution" documentary Giger said said "I wanted to make something that would be somehow human but that would also be robot-like, a kind of human that is protected from all kinds of external forces, be they weapons, radiation or whatever else. Instead of having their bones on the inside, they have them, partly at least, on the outside like an exo-skeleton. I mixed these together, this world of bones , mixed it with technical things, that's how these 'biomechanoids' came about from the interplay of the biological and the mechanical."
However in the shorter version, the man who does an English voice over during the Giger's section says ""I wanted to make something that would be somehow human but that would also be robot-like, that is to say a kind of human being that is protected by bone. And I mixed these together, this world of bones , I mixed it with technical things, that's how these 'biomechanoids' came about, that is from the biological and the mechanical interplay of the two."
I hate the idea as well, but for some reason have faith that Ridley understands these things and has the same level of respect for the source material as we do.
-Chris
I hate the "jockey is a humanoid in a suit" concept. Why of why Ridley did you decide this was the way to go???
IMHO, it completely demystifies the "alieness" of Giger's iconic Space Jockey. The original Space Jockey is so surreal, and un-wordly. I loved the blend of bio-mechanical and organic design. I loved the concept that the Derelict ship, and "perhaps" the crew was grown rather than "built". The twisted, unsettling imagery and question of where did the Space Jockey begin and where did it's console leave off, is pretty unique (or at least was) in all of Science-fiction.
Somehow, the concept that it is just something "in a suit", makes it so pedestrian and "terrestrial".
Of course, I hope that Ridley pulls this off, and takes this in new direction, and by NO MEANS am I writing this off. But, as it stands now, I am not enamored with this concept.
Just my own opinion of course, but I can't accept that the bald humanoid in the trailer can don a Jockey suit and magically double in size, which he would need to do to be even close to fitting into the chair like the original Jockey did (his arm is half the length of the originals). That's why I am saying that this bald fella, even with a Jockey helmet on, is not the same being as the Space Jockey in the original film. There are too many differences, size being just one of them.
If indeed his suit is the size of the original Jockey, then he needs a new tailor.
-Chris
No, I was specifically talking about the ridiculousness of the SJ "character" wearing the mask, not the actor playing the character wearing it. All I am trying to say, since many assume the bald guy to be the jockey, is it would be pretty ridiculous if a mask he wears (if he does wear a mask) makes him look like the bust we see leaked in this thread. Conceptually, it would make no sense for a flesh and bones mask to cover a flesh and bones face. That's why I don't think the bald guy is the jockey. I think that bust is a being in its own right, and not just a masked humanoid being..
Think the idea of an earlier biological mask/respirator that inspires the facehugger biological design is really interesting. I'm very much of the mind that H.R. Geiger designs many biomechanoids (as RS likes to call them) with very similar features and visual ideas. My guess is we'll never see anything as indepth as direct hinting to anything like the design progression we are discussing. I think that is the kind of conjecture that is sadly only left up to the ubernerds like us
As for the locusta's comment about the quality of sculpt, I disagree completely. What we are seeing here is a raw latex mask pulled right out of the mold. They would look exactly like this before they are finished and and lit. That said that is a pretty nasty parting line/seam along the nose/trunk and the sides do like somewhat mismatched but seriously, this is how a latex mask looks when pulled. Painting does more than just add a realistic color and texture, it also is used to enhance and the effect of crevices and lines in a creatures face by painting them to look deeper than they really are in the sculpt. You can't make things too deep or you will have trouble demolding.
True, but our space suits do have the same general shape; round head, two arms, two legs, etc. And, we of course don't have biomechanical technology
To me the object being scanned is flat across the bottom with a large opening so it could go over the top of a head, while the head in the newly leaked images actually extends down into a neck that would fit on an actors head.
I figure if I speculate enough I'll have to get something right.. Maybe..
Size is really no issue.
That wouldn't explained why the original's alleged tail would have fused with the sternum and ribs. Or why it didn't simply scurry away when the job was done, like the one with Kane had done.
Or why legs are missing... If it hasn't got any limbs and the tail isn't being used to wrap around the neck, how is it meant to stay on and not be dislodged?
After all, we are truly evil beings (SJ's). We only mask our evilness with religion and smiley glad hands, we all have hidden agendas. Deep down it's what I do for you, you do for me, mentality. I think this movie will show us what we will become if something doesn't change within us. But highly doubt we will deviate.
to me it doesn't make much sense that the alien inside the suit, looks exactly (or with a subtle change) like the suit.
do astronauts look like a space suit, when taking it off?
maybe the suit is deforming, after death. like the whole jockey ship, maybe...
I think we have some confusion over the definition of a Space Jockey.
Is the Space Jockey the Biomechanical suit as seen in the ampule room photos, or is the Space Jockey the alien creature that wears the suit, or is the space jockey the big blue bald guy in the trailer?
Obviously the new images look very much like the image in the trailer of the head/helmet being scanned. Same basic shape, but in my opinion the head object being scanned is too large for an actor to wear as a prosthetic creature mask. I think it's the actual biomechanical helmet for the biomechanical suit laying in the ampule room.
The new images are supposedly a prosthetic creature mask for an actor to wear who is portraying an alien creature (not the Xeno Alien). I think this is the true face of the alien who wears the biomechanical suit.
So...
New head images + Actor = Alien species
Helmet being scanned + torso and legs in ampule room = Biomechanical suit that above alien wears
Big blue bald guy = something else.. The Engineer/God being who created humans and above alien species.
My opinion of course.
Damn dude that is a pretty nice theory you got there
You have the humanoid face with the attached "facehugger" (to provide oxygen) and then on top of that you have an outer skeleton for protection.
its prob a prototype testing the mold and casting methods
Probably enemy's the decapitated jockey doesnt make any sense i think the jockey's are the advanced race and the giant guy/race is after what they got.
I think you misread it. They only said it's a prosthetic mask designed specifically for an actor to wear. Pretty much like any other Predator, River Ghost, etc... creature prosthetic masks. The SJ could be a suit as suggested in previous interviews. But it's neither confirmed, denied or suggested by these pictures. It could be anything.