Engineer Confusion...

Started by Psychonaut123, Jan 02, 2018, 02:50:13 AM

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Engineer Confusion... (Read 814 times)

Psychonaut123

Psychonaut123

I don't see why there is so much confusion about the Engineers...I've seen so many posters here and elsewhere asking about their plans for mankind, their origins, differences between LV-223 and Paradise species, etc. It seemed obvious to me the first time I watched the extended opening of Prometheus and the scene where David wakes the Engineer:  The Engineers used for sacrifice (and later seen on LV-223 in biosuits) are 100%, without a doubt, some kind of manufactured organism/servant. They are perfectly bred, genetically selected clones, best-of-breed, artificial life created to serve the higher purpose of their masters, the Elder Engineers who were cut from Prometheus (the remnants of which are later destroyed by David  on Paradise). All of the Paradise Engineers, like humans, were different sizes, heights, facial looks, and both genders. LV-223 Engineers all look alike, perfect faces, bodies, and technology. The "point" Ridley Scott seems obsessed with is that if intelligent beings create other intelligent being to rule over, eventually the created beings will resent their makers and rebel against them. This theme goes along perfectly with what we see of the Engineers, and our interaction with them, and our relationship with our own created beings like David and Walter. It also explains why the awakened Engineer looked at David like that right before he killed him/Weyland...because he too was created by someone (Elders) who thought they were Gods and used his people for their purposes. Like David, they were smarter and stronger and faster than their creators, hence they started creating Biosuits and ships, weapons, the black goo-AI, because that was something better than their creators and gave them an advantage over them and their other creations (like humans). Advanced technology wins, and taking that a step further, David advances their work into the Xeno. If you create a servant race, they will hate their creators, advance further, and eventually create their own uncontrollable life forms to endanger the galaxy. It also goes along perfectly with the Sumerian Gods who created the Annuki then replaced them with us, and the biblical Angels, created as God's servants but then made to serve his second, lower creation, who then rebelled and perverted God's creation, leading to the flood's destruction. It's all in there, Ridley just cut so much of their story it got confusing...then David. 

SM

SM

#1
Why were they pointing to LV-223 and why did they want to kill us 2000 years ago, but then still returned to Earth in the interim?

Space7Horror

Space7Horror

#2
I always imagined the "invitation" as more of a warning than anything.  Like the engineers visited earth to see how we were evolving worldwide and told the primitive humans that their purpose comes from above.  I assume that we were created as a testing ground of sorts and the goo was meant to be experimented with using humans.  Which also explains why the engineer in Prometheus was mad when he saw Weyland, we were nothing but lab rats and now we have the audacity to be demanding things from "gods".   

Highland

Highland

#3
Quote from: SM on Jan 02, 2018, 03:44:34 AM
Why were they pointing to LV-223 and why did they want to kill us 2000 years ago, but then still returned to Earth in the interim?

I figure it was that if the humans could get to that place, then it was time for them to die. Doesn't really explain why they were going 2000 years ago mind you.

Psychonaut123

Psychonaut123

#4
Quote from: Highland on Jan 02, 2018, 05:25:38 AM
Quote from: SM on Jan 02, 2018, 03:44:34 AM
Why were they pointing to LV-223 and why did they want to kill us 2000 years ago, but then still returned to Earth in the interim?

I figure it was that if the humans could get to that place, then it was time for them to die. Doesn't really explain why they were going 2000 years ago mind you.

Actually, I think that the LV-223 Engineers rebelled and fought back against the Elders that created them to be sacrificed....they perverted the original meaning and use of LV-223 in order to destroy the other creations (humans) who became capable of traveling there, they took over that planet when they left Paradise.  Or maybe they took over LV-223 and never even knew the real reason it existed, because their creators never told them. The pictograph came from the Elders centuries before, but they were long gone (replaced by their own version of AI, the LV-223 Engineers).

SM

SM

#5
Humans weren't capable of travelling there 2000 years ago though.

Highland

Highland

#6
Quote from: SM on Jan 02, 2018, 05:56:21 AM
Humans weren't capable of travelling there 2000 years ago though.

Yeah that's the point. When the creation reaches a certain technological stage, it's time for them to be reset. I guess think of it like the Turing test for humans.

I mean it doesn't explain why the Engineers were going to wipe us out 2000 years ago, because that's the date they were heading to Earth right?

asil

asil

#7
Quote from: Highland on Jan 02, 2018, 05:25:38 AM
Quote from: SM on Jan 02, 2018, 03:44:34 AM
Why were they pointing to LV-223 and why did they want to kill us 2000 years ago, but then still returned to Earth in the interim?

I figure it was that if the humans could get to that place, then it was time for them to die. Doesn't really explain why they were going 2000 years ago mind you.

Maybe ancient people thought they were pointing to Paradise. Paradise was mentioned few times In Prometheus, especially at the start (Shaw's dream) and end (deleted scene I think) of the movie.

Highland

Highland

#8
Quote from: asil on Jan 02, 2018, 06:20:12 AM
Quote from: Highland on Jan 02, 2018, 05:25:38 AM
Quote from: SM on Jan 02, 2018, 03:44:34 AM
Why were they pointing to LV-223 and why did they want to kill us 2000 years ago, but then still returned to Earth in the interim?

I figure it was that if the humans could get to that place, then it was time for them to die. Doesn't really explain why they were going 2000 years ago mind you.

Maybe ancient people thought they were pointing to Paradise. Paradise was mentioned few times In Prometheus, especially at the start (Shaw's dream) and end (deleted scene I think) of the movie.

I guess why would it matter? By the time humans figured out how to get to the place on the maps, which would be at least a few thousand years, it wouldn't matter what the story was they would be going regardless.

I think Scott probably had an idea, then David just bombed that idea into oblivion to service the Covenant Story.

.....Or it was just a bunch of questions with no answers.

asil

asil

#9
Quote from: Highland on Jan 02, 2018, 07:35:47 AM
Quote from: asil on Jan 02, 2018, 06:20:12 AM
Quote from: Highland on Jan 02, 2018, 05:25:38 AM
Quote from: SM on Jan 02, 2018, 03:44:34 AM
Why were they pointing to LV-223 and why did they want to kill us 2000 years ago, but then still returned to Earth in the interim?

I figure it was that if the humans could get to that place, then it was time for them to die. Doesn't really explain why they were going 2000 years ago mind you.

Maybe ancient people thought they were pointing to Paradise. Paradise was mentioned few times In Prometheus, especially at the start (Shaw's dream) and end (deleted scene I think) of the movie.

I guess why would it matter? By the time humans figured out how to get to the place on the maps, which would be at least a few thousand years, it wouldn't matter what the story was they would be going regardless.

I think Scott probably had an idea, then David just bombed that idea into oblivion to service the Covenant Story.

.....Or it was just a bunch of questions with no answers.

It matters to Weyland & Shaw.

Weyland is looking for eternal life, he asked for Paradise. He said he deserved it, because he said "We are Gods".

Shaw thought she deserves it too, she wanted to go to Paradise asking around for answers on why Engineers want to destroy Earth.

Quote
then David just bombed that idea into oblivion to service the Covenant Story

David creates a Hell instead. lol.

SM

SM

#10
Quote from: Highland on Jan 02, 2018, 06:13:47 AM
Quote from: SM on Jan 02, 2018, 05:56:21 AM
Humans weren't capable of travelling there 2000 years ago though.

Yeah that's the point. When the creation reaches a certain technological stage, it's time for them to be reset. I guess think of it like the Turing test for humans.

I mean it doesn't explain why the Engineers were going to wipe us out 2000 years ago, because that's the date they were heading to Earth right?

Yep.  Not much interstellar space flight in the iron age.

windebieste

windebieste

#11
Iron Age ended 500 years BC.

The time of Christ, 2000 years ago, is considered to be within Historical events in the Archealogical time scale.

Human beings haven't changed much in 2000 years.  Obviously the Engineers assessed us as a species long ago and determined we were unfit by their standards and potentially dangerous.  They also set a trap on LV-223, just in case we achieved interstellar travel. 

Those 35k year old cave paintings?  Bait.   

As for us being potentially dangerous to the Engineers?  We built David.  That wasn't a positive experience to the Engineers, huh.  So, they were right.

So yes.  Attempting to destroy us 2000 years ago - FAILED, for reasons unknown. 

Relying on the Failsafe of baiting us to go to LV-223 and launch our own demise - FAILED, for reasons as documented in 'PROMETHEUS'.

After that, David demonstrates why they wanted us destroyed in 'ALIEN Covenant'. 

It all boils down to being a case of 'Us ...or Them.'  The Galaxy doesn't look like it's going to be big enough for both of us - and David is acting as a Wildcard.

So far, we've been lucky.

-Windebieste.

asil

asil

#12
Quote from: windebieste on Jan 02, 2018, 10:49:25 AM
Iron Age ended 500 years BC.

The time of Christ, 2000 years ago, is considered to be within Historical events in the Archealogical time scale.

Human beings haven't changed much in 2000 years.  Obviously the Engineers assessed us as a species long ago and determined we were unfit by their standards and potentially dangerous.  They also set a trap on LV-223, just in case we achieved interstellar travel. 

Those 35k year old cave paintings?  Bait.   

As for us being potentially dangerous to the Engineers?  We built David.  That wasn't a positive experience to the Engineers, huh.  So, they were right.

So yes.  Attempting to destroy us 2000 years ago - FAILED, for reasons unknown. 

Relying on the Failsafe of baiting us to go to LV-223 and launch our own demise - FAILED, for reasons as documented in 'PROMETHEUS'.

After that, David demonstrates why they wanted us destroyed in 'ALIEN Covenant'. 

It all boils down to being a case of 'Us ...or Them.'  The Galaxy doesn't look like it's going to be big enough for both of us - and David is acting as a Wildcard.

So far, we've been lucky.

-Windebieste.

Not so lucky after all in Covenant. Instead, the bait was setup by David!  ;D

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