User Information

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Alien Mouth Anatomy Discussion  (Read 1065 times)

Elmazalman
Nov 20, 2017, 10:00:39 PM
Reply #15 on: Nov 20, 2017, 10:00:39 PM
Q
Giger added the tongue because he thought such a long head should serve a purpose. I always liked the idea that the tongue starts further along the head and that's why it has so much force. Imagine three feet of muscle and hydraulics pushing that thing forward.
It shattered Parker’s skull with very little resistance. That takes some impressive force to achieve.


Xenomrph
Nov 23, 2017, 08:27:04 AM
Reply #16 on: Nov 23, 2017, 08:27:04 AM
Q
Awesome work on your diagrams, Killveous!
I'm definitely of the opinion that the inner mouth is directly connected to the throat - we explicitly see Aliens use the inner mouth for feeding in 'AvP: Requiem' as well as some of the comics ('Aliens: Labyrinth' off the top of my head) and as a gameplay mechanic in all 3 AvP FPS games.

Giger added the tongue because he thought such a long head should serve a purpose. I always liked the idea that the tongue starts further back along the head and that's why it has so much force. Imagine three feet of muscle and hydraulics pushing that thing forward.
To spin off from this, perhaps part of the elongated head is used as a sort of diaphragm to ram the inner mouth forward, similar to the mechanism that makes our lungs inflate and deflate.


Corporal Hicks
Nov 23, 2017, 08:38:59 AM
Reply #17 on: Nov 23, 2017, 08:38:59 AM
Q
I'm not sure if the Anchorpoint Essays ever did any studies on how the mouth works.

Here you go -

Quote
Perhaps the most interesting, and disturbing, feature of the adult I. raptus are the vicious, and incredibly powerful, secondary jaws. These jaws are part of a modified tongue, and are used in an offensive, rather than defensive, manner. The tongue is approximately 50cm in length with a striking distance of up to 40mm from the creature's mouth. The organ would appear to be comprised almost entirely of muscle with an external structure that is similar to cartilage in design. This design offers a flexible range of movement while retaining enough tensile strength to withstand the crushing impact of bone, or other rigid material.

In a relaxed state the tongue is relatively flaccid. It isn't known if the jaws located at the anterior end of the tongue serve a purpose in this state (i.e. - the aid in moving food from the mouth into the throat, etc.), or if the jaws sole function is that of maiming prey. In a state of activity the tongue becomes extremely rigid, yet remains flexible to a limited degree so as to withstand the force of impact with bone or other such solid material.

The primary use of the secondary jaws is as a means of crippling prey so as to immobilize perspective host organisms. The Nostromo's Chief Engineer and Warrant Officer reported that Chief Engineer's Mate Brett was still screaming and moving of his own accord even after the primary attack was over. Corporal D. Hicks of the 2nd Bat. 9th Reg. USCM also reported that the squad Sergeant was recorded as still being alive, by the APC's TOC, even after a direct blow to the face. Records also, though somewhat vague, seem to indicate that General Perez, of the Auriga, was still conscious following a direct blow to the back of the skull.

When used in an attack on the cranium the Alien has the strength to thrust these jaws with such force as to shatter the surrounding cranial surface on impact (the tensile strength of the tongue during such an attack is far greater than bone). The result is a large crater of bone and flesh. The articulation of the jaws furthers the damage of the strike: when the tongue reaches its maximum strike length (approx. 40cm) the jaws close and the tongue is retracted, causing severe tearing of the surrounding tissue. It has been observed that prior to such an attack there is an intense and sharp oral inhalation of air. Considering theories that revolve around the Alien's respiration it is believed that the Alien's secondary jaws and tongue may be the biological equivalent to a pneumatic piston. Through this theory the air is brought in and contained in a small chamber, or group of chambers, connected to the posterior end of the tongue. Once the desired pressure has reached it is released with an explosive force thrusting the secondary jaws out of the mouth. The muscle of the tongue then acts as a spring retracting it back into the mouth completing the strike. With the onset of this theory new considerations have been made about the possible reasoning for the shape of the head.

The Exobiology guild has recently put forth an interesting theory that presents the secondary jaws being used primarily in food intake. The maiming of prey is then seen as a secondary application. Through this theory I. raptus relies almost exclusively on expectorating its own reactive fluids onto a food source, and then using the tongue as a form of siphon to pull in the liquefied material. The teeth and mandibles that tip the tongue are then used in the tearing and ingesting small portions of soft tissue when expectoration is not required. The theory came about during a study of the Alien's over all physical structure and proportions: it was felt that the neck - in order to support the head - needed to be comprised largely of muscle, thereby leaving little room for an esophagus designed for ingesting large pieces of food. However, given current views on the incorporation of carbon on the Alien's exoskeleton the amount of musculature employed in the neck for head support may be lessened in favor of allowing the strength of the exoskeleton to absorb most of the supportive needs.

It would also appear that these jaws could be used as an aggressive display of strength or as a threatening gesture. Several instances were recorded from LV-426 in which the secondary jaws were displayed prior to any attack occurring. It has been assumed that this is a threatening posture.

Interestingly, the Alien can utilize the secondary jaws as primates would a hand or an arm. As was recorded aboard the Auriga: an Alien (believed to be the Alpha from the group contained in the Quarantine Containment Cell 3 - see the Social Behavior essay for more on this) used its tongue to activated the liquid Nitrogen fail-safe inside the cell to deliberately kill a member of the crew. It would appear that I. raptus - like rats or other such animals - does not readily recognize the ability to employ limbs or extremities when performing a specific action, even when the button or lever is within reach of the limbs. Just as a rat conditioned to push a lever to acquire food will use it's snout, so will an Alien use it's head or secondary jaws (this is also evident in the Alien testing the plexi-shield of the cell with its head as opposed to its hand or arm). Though the creature may understand the reaction that will follow the act of pressing a button it may not understand its design, or intended implemantary use.

Retrieved via WayBack.


Local Trouble
Nov 23, 2017, 01:12:30 PM
Reply #18 on: Nov 23, 2017, 01:12:30 PM
Q
I'm definitely of the opinion that the inner mouth is directly connected to the throat - we explicitly see Aliens use the inner mouth for feeding in 'AvP: Requiem' as well as some of the comics ('Aliens: Labyrinth' off the top of my head) and as a gameplay mechanic in all 3 AvP FPS games.

I think OP is only interested in canon sources.


Xenomrph
Nov 23, 2017, 02:27:04 PM
Reply #19 on: Nov 23, 2017, 02:27:04 PM
Q
I'm definitely of the opinion that the inner mouth is directly connected to the throat - we explicitly see Aliens use the inner mouth for feeding in 'AvP: Requiem' as well as some of the comics ('Aliens: Labyrinth' off the top of my head) and as a gameplay mechanic in all 3 AvP FPS games.

I think OP is only interested in canon sources.
You're probably being facetious, but the OP specifically asked for game and comic stuff:

Also if anyone has anything from comics or games I have not seen please do share! 
Thanks!


Local Trouble
Nov 23, 2017, 03:00:48 PM
Reply #20 on: Nov 23, 2017, 03:00:48 PM
Q
Actually, I was focusing on the AvPR reference.  How DARE you?


Xenomrph
Nov 24, 2017, 12:03:18 AM
Reply #21 on: Nov 24, 2017, 12:03:18 AM
Q
:D fair enough

As a total package the movie is a mess, but there are individual elements of it that I like.
Then again I've seen plenty of bad movies where I've walked away saying, "that was a bad movie, but [this particular thing] was well done". I can't think of many movies I've seen where I concluded that it was a total waste of my time.


Killveous
Nov 24, 2017, 02:18:17 PM
Reply #22 on: Nov 24, 2017, 02:18:17 PM
Q
Hahaha, oh you two~ I like to look at all sources, though do agree on part with Local Trouble that the AVP:R movie is not really one I look into for much depth.

However, I think the movie itself actually does prove a certain point here; We do see an Alien apparently feeding with his inner mouth. What we see is him striking repeatedly, biting and pulling back. If the throat was all the way through from the inner mouth then surely, he could keep it extended to take pieces of food, or simply move it up and down in shorter bursts rather than retract it in it's entirety into his primary mouth. 

I have tried to demonstrate what I mean with Pringles (which is now an ongoing joke between me and friends about how the only reason for the inner jaw to be so long is because they can reach the last pringle in the can) and honestly having the throat running through the middle just seems unlikely. 

Perhaps he is tenderising his meal only, perhaps he has to retract it to swallow what he grabs inside the inner jaw? Or perhaps the inner jaw is not just a weapon but also a part sensory organ like our own tongues which taste but also collect scents much like snakes can to better track prey. It's not like that huge head doesn't have lots of room for more sensory organs like a vomeronasal tucked in there. 

As for Corporal Hicks; Thank you for all that- again, this is more stuff I have no knowledge of prier and I love learning more here! 

The idea of controlled power of the inner mouth is very exciting. This part here; 
"The primary use of the secondary jaws is as a means of crippling prey so as to immobilize perspective host organisms." Is very interesting. 
This means they can use their inner jaws to stun their victim as well as kill outright depending on the force they utilise and the needs of the Xenomorph. Better control means a likely more complex mechanism. And while we may think being smashed in the face means instant death; there are many cases of grievous skull trauma which does not kill. Someone who was in a car accident had their face crushed in entirely but was able to survive. You can see the before and after scans in attachments (I won't add the photos as they are quite distressing) which gives a very good idea of how a Xenomorph may be able to bash your face in and stun you senseless and you are still able to survive for a period before death (most likely by being a host). 

BTW thanks for all the lovely comments! Two friends are very eager for me to talk more about Alien anatomy aspects and breeding and classifications, etc etc. Might end up doing a series of things as I have hundreds of pages of theorems and study deductions though what I have needs far better illustrations that these sketches to go into depth. May do pencil work as well, to make it feel more real in hand as if it was a real scientists work.


Local Trouble
Nov 24, 2017, 04:28:15 PM
Reply #23 on: Nov 24, 2017, 04:28:15 PM
Q
I don't know what line of work you're in, but history has shown that what you post here may come to the attention of Fox and make its way into some officially licensed project in the future.

Have you acquired a copy of the WYR yet?


Killveous
Nov 24, 2017, 07:11:59 PM
Reply #24 on: Nov 24, 2017, 07:11:59 PM
Q
I don't know what line of work you're in, but history has shown that what you post here may come to the attention of Fox and make its way into some officially licensed project in the future.

Have you acquired a copy of the WYR yet?

Oh do you mean that Fox will just take peoples work without credit and use it? Or you mean they approach you want to use it with permission?

I searched a bunch of stuff for WYR (which i didn't even know what it stood for when you said lol) and ??? Was this a fanmade book first? It looks very professional and well funded.
Pages like these;

Look like real 3D graphic renders of the Aliens made for this book? It's awesome. I would love to make something like that but far more in depth and all about just the Aliens, not ships and people or any of that. The science of the creature is what I am hugely into.


Still Collating...
Nov 24, 2017, 07:38:24 PM
Reply #25 on: Nov 24, 2017, 07:38:24 PM
Q

BTW thanks for all the lovely comments! Two friends are very eager for me to talk more about Alien anatomy aspects and breeding and classifications, etc etc. Might end up doing a series of things as I have hundreds of pages of theorems and study deductions though what I have needs far better illustrations that these sketches to go into depth. May do pencil work as well, to make it feel more real in hand as if it was a real scientists work.

Please please do more of these types of speculation and Alien anatomy theories, I would love to see what you came up with!


Xenomrph
Nov 25, 2017, 12:45:55 AM
Reply #26 on: Nov 25, 2017, 12:45:55 AM
Q
Hahaha, oh you two~ I like to look at all sources, though do agree on part with Local Trouble that the AVP:R movie is not really one I look into for much depth.

However, I think the movie itself actually does prove a certain point here; We do see an Alien apparently feeding with his inner mouth. What we see is him striking repeatedly, biting and pulling back. If the throat was all the way through from the inner mouth then surely, he could keep it extended to take pieces of food, or simply move it up and down in shorter bursts rather than retract it in it's entirety into his primary mouth. 

I have tried to demonstrate what I mean with Pringles (which is now an ongoing joke between me and friends about how the only reason for the inner jaw to be so long is because they can reach the last pringle in the can) and honestly having the throat running through the middle just seems unlikely. 
Perhaps it's like the pharyngeal jaw, which the moray eel uses because it lacks the ability to swallow on its own - the jaw is literally used to pull food back into its gullet. The Alien inner jaw may serve a similar purpose.

I don't know what line of work you're in, but history has shown that what you post here may come to the attention of Fox and make its way into some officially licensed project in the future.

Have you acquired a copy of the WYR yet?

Oh do you mean that Fox will just take peoples work without credit and use it? Or you mean they approach you want to use it with permission?
A little of column A, a little of column B. :P
Fans have been contracted to do paid work on licensed projects (more often in recent years, such as with the WY Report and the forthcoming Alien Blueprints book) but other times FOX will just commandeer fan work and use it without compensation or consent (such as using SM's star chart in the backgrounds of the Anthology blu-ray, and some other example that I can't recall the particulars of offhand).


I searched a bunch of stuff for WYR (which i didn't even know what it stood for when you said lol) and ??? Was this a fanmade book first? It looks very professional and well funded.
The Weyland-Yutani Report is an official sourcebook written by long-time Alien/AvP author S.D. Perry, but had some fan consultation and some of the artwork contracted for it was done by an artist who posts on these forums.
I have my issues with the book (short version, it's written as a coffee table book for casual fans first, and is very, very far from being a seriously structured treatise about Xenomorphs like, say, the Anchorpoint Essays or whatever) but it's worth a read. It doesn't contain anything mind-blowing or that die-hard fans didn't already know or speculate, but it's still a neat book.


Pages like these;

Look like real 3D graphic renders of the Aliens made for this book? It's awesome. I would love to make something like that but far more in depth and all about just the Aliens, not ships and people or any of that. The science of the creature is what I am hugely into.
You might also be interested in the recent Book of Alien: Augmented Reality Survival Manual - it's got similar content and presentation to the WY Report but presented from a slightly different perspective. I'm still reading the AR Manual right now so I can't comment on the total package, but so far it feels like a companion book to the WY Report.



Xenomrph
Nov 25, 2017, 04:27:26 PM
Reply #28 on: Nov 25, 2017, 04:27:26 PM
Q
Thanks for posting locusta's name - I was phone-posting at the time and couldn't remember his name.



 

Facebook Twitter Instagram Steam RSS Feed