Disney in talks to buy Fox. What could this mean for Alien and Predator?

Started by newbeing, Nov 06, 2017, 07:34:15 PM

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Disney in talks to buy Fox. What could this mean for Alien and Predator? (Read 179,679 times)

Scorpio

No, you will never please everyone.  And even when you try to do that, you end up with a mess. 

At least Ridley has a vision.  Some may not like it, but Ridley is a real filmmaker.  He's made more classics than most directors alive today.  He's not just another Disney hack making a movie run by committee. 

Sad state of affairs when that's what most people want.  Generic pap.  The McDonalds of the filmmaking world.  Yuck.

I'd classify Covenant haters:

1.  Massive Aliens fanboys who just want more colonial marines, pulse rifles, etc
2.  Kids (see above)
3.  Conservative Alien fans who believe everything must stick to the previously established rules
4.  Homophobes (?)

:)

But seriously, if you don't like Covenant that's your business and I don't mean to imply anything. 

PVTDukeMorrison

Homophobes? I didn't think a facehugger throat f**king someone would trigger people that bad

Huggs

Huggs

#302
"Be careful what you wish for."

When something isn't working, change is the only option. Covenant felt like it was frankensteined together from spare parts and ideas, just for the sake of making a film. The spore idea, for example.

Let me just say though, that I have the utmost respect for Mr. Scott. He has directed some of the greatest films of all time, including my personal favorite, Alien 1979. I'm an Alien fan, I love the xenomorph, I confess. It's one of the main reasons I watch the films. If not the beast, then the presence of the beast is the thing. Aliens 1,2,3 had fantastic casts and scripts as well, which only raised the quality of the films. The prequels have been quite the opposite of that. When faced with this situation, and the director also maintains the beast is cooked or dead, etc. It takes away from what little enthusiasm is still there. Would Isolation have been as fun if the only enemy were the artificials? Were I to offer an opinion back when Aliens was in production, I would have said adding marines and mass amounts of Aliens would detract from the strength and horror of one creature, and result in a lesser film meant to exploit the film wants of teenage minds. And I would have been wrong. The change was good, really good. We cannot shy away from trying different things. But must be willing to change again, should things not work out well.

If making Alien films with Xenomorph's in them is not cool with the director, then it's time to give someone else a chance. Years have passed and two films have now been made that have both resulted in mixed reception, and the director has no plans to change course. Sometimes it's okay for a movie to just be a movie, and not some long and drawn out philosophical masterpiece trilogy. Sometimes the only thing the audience wants to think about, is when will the beast will leap from the shadows? There's a really good story just waiting out there somewhere, and it could probably be told in a single film, but that's not going to be allowed to happen with Mr. Scott at the helm. We'd get a rough idea if Blokamps script ever got posted. Which makes me wonder if it's being saved for a rainy day. Well, there's clouds on the horizon. It's time for change. Yes, that's just my opinion. But I'm not exactly the only one who feels that way.


Gads! Now I've done it. I said something negative about Covenant. I feel like an Athiest in a family of Southern Baptists. I've dared to question Scott's great plan. Incoming mortar fire!


"Homophobes?"

Might we all converse together, without dragging accusations of homophobia in here?

Nukiemorph

Quote from: Huggs on Dec 17, 2017, 02:14:11 AM
Gads! Now I've done it. I said something negative about Covenant. I feel like an Athiest in a family of Southern Baptists. I've dared to question Scott's great plan. Incoming mortar fire!
Oh, don't start that.  These boards seem pretty split in half.  Even the Blomkamp Vs. Scott sequel poll on the front page is split 49 to 51 percent.

As much as I loved Covenant, I fear the slim majority of fans hate it and want Blomkamp's Aliens 2.

I just feel like begging for Scott to lose the opportunity to finish his story is like someone begging for a TV show to be cancelled because you hate it.  That show has fans, so what do you care if it finishes it's final season or not?  Why not just stop watching and let the fans enjoy it until it's over?

Huggs

"I just feel like begging for Scott to lose the opportunity to finish his story is like someone begging for a TV show to be cancelled because you hate it.  That show has fans, so what do you care if it finishes it's final season or not?  Why not just stop watching and let the fans enjoy it until it's over? ?"

Well Geez, You do know I'm not in charge of production right? Fox and Scott can do whatever they want. For another thing, I don't think "begging" is an accurate or positive word to use when referring to the position of people with a different opinion. It's just not conducive to constructive conversation. And it's okay for all the fans to want the movie they'd like to be made too, they don't necessarily have to just go away and wait it out quietly. These are just movies, and the portion of people who are pro-prequel are equally as vocal about it (I'd nearly say much more vocal), hence my sarcasm in that quote you posted.

I'm glad you enjoyed covenant. It means you have yet another good Alien film to watch. I personally found the shorts involving David's time on the derelict, and his summary of the events on paradise to have been very well done and entertaining. Had the events of the journey to paradise, and the initial contact and subsequent isolation on paradise been the focus of Covenant, I think it would have been a much stronger film.


And just to throw this out there, I don't want Blomkamp anywhere near an Alien movie, even if he was the only director left on earth, I'd rather the whole thing stopped right there forever. I am interested in what his script said though, as it apparently seemed pretty good to Cameron and some others. The only film I'm interested in seeing from this franchise honestly, is a film in the spirit of 1 or 3. Incredibly dark and isolated. A lone, powerful and intelligent xenomorph stalks and eliminates an ever shrinking group of survivors. Not some mindless proto-drone that attacks machinery. No powerloaders, nor rifles, no marines, no Aliens 1986 again please and thank you.

Nukiemorph

I'll just leave it at this:

The reason we have aliens in Covenant is because of online complaints.

Huggs

"The reason we have aliens in Covenant is because of online complaints"

I absolutely agree with you on this. It was obvious Ridley didn't want them in the film, and kind of shoehorned them in as fan service due to backlash from prometheus. That's probably why their scenes felt so poorly done, although I tend to think Ridley could have used them better, certainly not showing their movements or using them in the daylight would've been a good start. But yes, they were there because of complaints, but I doubt their absence would've saved the film.

Scorpio

Then what would have saved the film for you, then?  A remake of Alien 1 or 3?  Because from the sounds of it, that's what you wanted and is why you don't like Covenant.

Huggs

Huggs

#308
"Then what would have saved the film for you, then?  A remake of Alien 1 or 3?  Because from the sounds of it, that's what you wanted and is why you don't like Covenant."

Yes, I'm ready for something different that focuses on the xenomorph hunting people. As far as covenant goes, what could have saved it would have been a giger-world horror fest, with shaw and david at the center of it.

If you're talking about re-writes, I'm a bit tired, so let's go with the assumption that paradise was the same as in covenant, and not like the interior of the juggernauts.

Had Covenant been about the events surrounding the trip to paradise, it would have been much better. For instance, the engineer technology is basically explained by David, and they depart. After some time, he gains shaw's trust again, and is repaired. We spend roughly 30-40 minutes with them on the juggernaut before shaw is put in cryosleep. Basically a longer version of what we saw in the extra scenes. After Shaw goes into cryo, we follow David for a short time, and see what he discovers, i.e. the true purpose of the black goo and the engineer's plans for our destruction, with possibly some greater motives and details revealed that could come into play in the 3rd movie. Perhaps some Great God figure, maybe the Alien as the Devil or something. Either way, we'd have answers to go on.

They'd arrive at paradise. David is having conflicting views on what to do, knowing the engineers will demand shaw's death, and most likely david's as well. He decides to black goo the engineers, even though it causes David some form of anguish, as he finds their hatred of humanity or perhaps some form of higher technology or ideals to be relatable. Maybe they are just creations of someone else, like him. As he destroys them, shaw is awakened. He is attacked by his beloved, and the ship is crashed. Shaw is infuriated with David, and leaves the city, and uses stores from Vickers pod to plant wheat and other crops to survive.

David, in his loneliness begins to wander the city and study everything. We're shown many beautiful interior and large rooms filled with sculptures and scrolls, great murals akin to the one's from Prometheus. Meanwhile shaw is busy building a basic habitat by the lake (homage to daniels here) During a particularly violent storm, David ventures somehow into a large room with a giant sculpture of the original Alien. Some minor inscriptions later, perhaps engineers worshipping the creature as some form of becoming a higher entity. Regardless, he is fascinated. He has found his purpose and searches the temple records for any data or instructions, thus beginning his experiments.

After some years, shaw returns to the city. She finds david in his temple, and is warmly greeted. David soon becomes evasive regarding his activities during the past few years, and tells shaw that he has located other ships below the city that they can use to get home. At some point, one of David's experiments escapes, and stalks shaw through the city. After a prolonged hunt, David kills the Alien as it is about to kill shaw. Shaw demands to know what David has really been doing. She refuses to understand, and leaves to take one of the engineer ships back to earth. Fearing being alone forever, or having his work undone by a returning human force, he follows and attacks her. Overcome with madness and severely wounded, he eventually releases his perfect creation, (the original face-hugger), which manages to overcome shaw just as she escapes. He says something biblical as the ship speeds away, perhaps "it is done" and dies.

Shaw awakens from coma aboard the ancient juggernaut, she climbs into the cockpit and sets a course for earth. She begins to record some kind of log or speech, in homage to the original Alien. As the movie seems to end, she screams and heaves, as the first chestburster, a queen, erupts from her chest. The juggernaut crashes on lv-426. The cockpit, sensing trauma to the pilot, engages an emergency signal. She dies, as the camera pans down to a smoking hole in the floor.

Mic Drop





C'mon I tried.


"A remake of Alien 1 or 3?"

Not a remake, no. Sometimes people think if someone wants a story similar to any of the original movies, they want a remake. You can have a similar structure without remaking the same film. Would I like the formula to be repeated, yes. Sometimes it pays not to be picky. Give me a ship, some good characters, and an alien, and I'm a happy boy. People tend to forget how simple that first movie was, and yet, it was a masterwork.

Scorpio

So you want an Alien film with only 2 characters and almost nothing happens? 

Might work as an arthouse film but this is a studio tentpole. 

The David/Shaw story could work as a comic or novel, but no studio in their right mind will invest much money in a film with only 2 characters.  Unless it's someone with MAJOR starpower.

The only movie I can think of that did something like that was Moon, but that was a low budget movie not a blockbuster.

You're not very realistic in your expectations, perhaps that's why you hate Covenant.

monkeylove

Quote from: necrotard on Dec 17, 2017, 03:54:31 AM
I'll just leave it at this:

The reason we have aliens in Covenant is because of online complaints.

Also, I'm guessing A:C was targeted to an international audience, and that meant making the movie resemble current Hollywood tent-poles. That is, lots of spectacle, etc. At the same time, most of that audience barely know about the earlier films, and producers believed that the film should have a genre switch (from the ancient astronaut story to action, similar to the first three films, which moved from horror to action to detective fiction). Because of that, they borrowed elements from the first and second movies (including crew members whose appearance allude to Dallas and Ripley, landing on the planetoid, infection, and survival as a crew numbers are whittled down) and coupled that with a continuation of the ancient astronaut tale.


tleilaxu

Quote from: Huggs on Dec 17, 2017, 05:19:51 AM
"Then what would have saved the film for you, then?  A remake of Alien 1 or 3?  Because from the sounds of it, that's what you wanted and is why you don't like Covenant."

Yes, I'm ready for something different that focuses on the xenomorph hunting people. As far as covenant goes, what could have saved it would have been a giger-world horror fest, with shaw and david at the center of it.

If you're talking about re-writes, I'm a bit tired, so let's go with the assumption that paradise was the same as in covenant, and not like the interior of the juggernauts.

Had Covenant been about the events surrounding the trip to paradise, it would have been much better. For instance, the engineer technology is basically explained by David, and they depart. After some time, he gains shaw's trust again, and is repaired. We spend roughly 30-40 minutes with them on the juggernaut before shaw is put in cryosleep. Basically a longer version of what we saw in the extra scenes. After Shaw goes into cryo, we follow David for a short time, and see what he discovers, i.e. the true purpose of the black goo and the engineer's plans for our destruction, with possibly some greater motives and details revealed that could come into play in the 3rd movie. Perhaps some Great God figure, maybe the Alien as the Devil or something. Either way, we'd have answers to go on.

They'd arrive at paradise. David is having conflicting views on what to do, knowing the engineers will demand shaw's death, and most likely david's as well. He decides to black goo the engineers, even though it causes David some form of anguish, as he finds their hatred of humanity or perhaps some form of higher technology or ideals to be relatable. Maybe they are just creations of someone else, like him. As he destroys them, shaw is awakened. He is attacked by his beloved, and the ship is crashed. Shaw is infuriated with David, and leaves the city, and uses stores from Vickers pod to plant wheat and other crops to survive.

David, in his loneliness begins to wander the city and study everything. We're shown many beautiful interior and large rooms filled with sculptures and scrolls, great murals akin to the one's from Prometheus. Meanwhile shaw is busy building a basic habitat by the lake (homage to daniels here) During a particularly violent storm, David ventures somehow into a large room with a giant sculpture of the original Alien. Some minor inscriptions later, perhaps engineers worshipping the creature as some form of becoming a higher entity. Regardless, he is fascinated. He has found his purpose and searches the temple records for any data or instructions, thus beginning his experiments.

After some years, shaw returns to the city. She finds david in his temple, and is warmly greeted. David soon becomes evasive regarding his activities during the past few years, and tells shaw that he has located other ships below the city that they can use to get home. At some point, one of David's experiments escapes, and stalks shaw through the city. After a prolonged hunt, David kills the Alien as it is about to kill shaw. Shaw demands to know what David has really been doing. She refuses to understand, and leaves to take one of the engineer ships back to earth. Fearing being alone forever, or having his work undone by a returning human force, he follows and attacks her. Overcome with madness and severely wounded, he eventually releases his perfect creation, (the original face-hugger), which manages to overcome shaw just as she escapes. He says something biblical as the ship speeds away, perhaps "it is done" and dies.

Shaw awakens from coma aboard the ancient juggernaut, she climbs into the cockpit and sets a course for earth. She begins to record some kind of log or speech, in homage to the original Alien. As the movie seems to end, she screams and heaves, as the first chestburster, a queen, erupts from her chest. The juggernaut crashes on lv-426. The cockpit, sensing trauma to the pilot, engages an emergency signal. She dies, as the camera pans down to a smoking hole in the floor.

Mic Drop





C'mon I tried.


"A remake of Alien 1 or 3?"

Not a remake, no. Sometimes people think if someone wants a story similar to any of the original movies, they want a remake. You can have a similar structure without remaking the same film. Would I like the formula to be repeated, yes. Sometimes it pays not to be picky. Give me a ship, some good characters, and an alien, and I'm a happy boy. People tend to forget how simple that first movie was, and yet, it was a masterwork.
No offense but that sounds REALLY f**king bad. I guess we just have conflicting views on what is good in this franchise.

monkeylove

Quote from: Scorpio on Dec 17, 2017, 01:21:51 AM
No, you will never please everyone.  And even when you try to do that, you end up with a mess. 

At least Ridley has a vision.  Some may not like it, but Ridley is a real filmmaker.  He's made more classics than most directors alive today.  He's not just another Disney hack making a movie run by committee. 

Sad state of affairs when that's what most people want.  Generic pap.  The McDonalds of the filmmaking world.  Yuck.

I'd classify Covenant haters:

1.  Massive Aliens fanboys who just want more colonial marines, pulse rifles, etc
2.  Kids (see above)
3.  Conservative Alien fans who believe everything must stick to the previously established rules
4.  Homophobes (?)

:)

But seriously, if you don't like Covenant that's your business and I don't mean to imply anything.

About Ridley and the film, that reminds me of one of the reviews of the film. Apparently, what was used effectively in the first two films was overused in this one. Characters who were multi-dimensional in the earlier films now became almost forgettable in this one, with producers attempting to show otherwise by even trying to make them look like characters from the earlier films. Other points are raised in the essay, and there are more in other reviews, but the point is that the movies are at best average, and they could have been better given more revisions in writing that would have led to more sympathetic characters, a careful buildup to the climax, etc. Instead, what we have are films that resemble contemporary Hollywood tent-poles: too much emphasis on spectacle, lots of content packed in leading to poor character development, and other problems that ultimately lead to movies that are merely filling and barely memorable.


Huggs

Huggs

#313
"No offense "

None taken. It's cool. If everyone felt and thought the same way about these movies, this would be a very boring place. Thanks for keeping it civil.  :) That being said, keep in mind I was stone tired when I wrote that, I'd been up 26 hours and wrote it in 7 minutes. I fell asleep once while doing it. (insert fell asleep while reading it joke, I know). But I have to wonder if something akin to that was the final script for covenant, or my last name was lindelof, it would be getting defended to the death by some on here.


Many of the details are nearly the same as the final film. I tweaked very little. Interesting. Was it the fact that I basically ended the prequels, and did away with any need for a 3rd one that was so frustrating? I don't ask this out of any sense of mean-spritedness or sarcastic ribbing, I truly am curious if ending the prequels with covenant would honestly have created some backlash within the pro-prequel camp?


And to clarify, when I say the final film, I mean the events preceeding the arrival of the covenant. The events surrounding David and shaw, at least what we know of it. Aside from being stalked by an alien, and her ultimate fate, this is pretty darn close to what we got.


"So you want an Alien film with only 2 characters and almost nothing happens? "

No Sir. The re-write featuring David and Shaw was only a re-write of the final film, and very little was changed. That was just one of several suggestions. The giger world featuring david and shaw, I think, would have been a good direction for the prequels to take after Prometheus. To have Shaw believe she is traveling towards paradise, only to end up in absolute hell fighting to survive would have been (I think) a great next step. It's hard to imagine anything but a giger inspired horror world doing that. Perhaps Alien growth overtook paradise, I don't know. But it sure would be an exciting thing to see one day.


As for the film I'd prefer, I'd rather have a full cast of good actors who have been well written. The original cast was like that, with Parker being my personal favorite. They were a very believable group of regular people, and the audience could relate more easily to that. There were no clueless scientists (Prometheus) No religious fanatics who were sumo-clueless (Oram), no beast fodder (entirety of covenant crew besides daniels) No terminator style robot face-offs.

Like I've said, give me a well rounded group of actors portraying normal/relatable people. No special missions, no "earth is counting on you" sort of thing. Just regular folks who step into something horrible. And one by one, it all goes south.


"You're not very realistic in your expectations, perhaps that's why you hate Covenant"

Can we not use the word Hate, it's such a negative term. I do not, and never will "hate" anything, including covenant. I merely find it dull and unsatisfying. As for my expectations, the last thing I've done with the prequels has been to set my expectations higher than a grain of salt. I merely stated what I'd like to have seen. But, the prequels will end, God willing someday. And something is going to come after that. I feel safe in thinking that Disney will never allow anything as philosophical as the prequels to be made of this franchise again. And for that day, I wait expectantly.

tleilaxu

Quote from: Huggs on Dec 17, 2017, 06:53:44 PM
"No offense "

None taken. It's cool. If everyone felt and thought the same way about these movies, this would be a very boring place. Thanks for keeping it civil.  :) That being said, keep in mind I was stone tired when I wrote that, I'd been up 26 hours and wrote it in 7 minutes. I fell asleep once while doing it. (insert fell asleep while reading it joke, I know). But I have to wonder if something akin to that was the final script for covenant, or my last name was lindelof, it would be getting defended to the death by some on here.


Many of the details are nearly the same as the final film. I tweaked very little. Interesting. Was it the fact that I basically ended the prequels, and did away with any need for a 3rd one that was so frustrating? I don't ask this out of any sense of mean-spritedness or sarcastic ribbing, I truly am curious if ending the prequels with covenant would honestly have created some backlash within the pro-prequel camp?


And to clarify, when I say the final film, I mean the events preceeding the arrival of the covenant. The events surrounding David and shaw, at least what we know of it. Aside from being stalked by an alien, and her ultimate fate, this is pretty darn close to what we got.



It's just sounds too normal, focusing too much on interpersonal characterization rather than the almost mythological-time feel that Covenant has. I'm not interested in David and Shaw holding hands or getting mad at each other, I'm interested in how the movie portrays the inexorable drive to create, trespass and fever-dream births.

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