David or Engineers?

Started by DerelictShip, Sep 14, 2017, 01:38:03 AM

Author
David or Engineers? (Read 1,782 times)

DerelictShip

DerelictShip

So, I heard with the extras in the DVD we find David stole the concept of the Alien off the engineers by following their blueprints. Is this true or is David the master behind all of it.....Id like to believe he's not as smart as we think and the engineers are still the Aliens creator

SM

SM

#1
Don't remember that on the Blu-ray, but it's hinted at in the novel that he might've been recreating something the Engineers had already created.

Baron Von Marlon

Baron Von Marlon

#2
"The original treatment for this movie, as revealed by Ridley Scott in 2012 when the film was still in development, was to be a more faithful sequel to Prometheus (2012). Titled "Paradise Lost," it would have drifted even further from the "Alien" mythology, and focused almost exclusively on the backstory of the engineers, the origins of humanity and how the engineers created humans and xenomorphs."
-http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2316204/trivia

When talking about re-introducing the xenomorph.
+-03m25s  "...the Engineers didn't make him. David made him."


My guess:
The black goo is the blueprint, the foundation upon which he builds his creation.

Highland

Highland

#3
If the Engineers have the same DNA as us then they could have made the Alien. There's no evidence of that anywhere though.

Edit: We never actually see a full grown Deacon either so there may be simply no need for the Engineers to make another version. The Deacon might even be the perfect organism.

whiterabbit

whiterabbit

#4
The mural in Prometheus shows an alien hand holding an alien egg. That's enough for me to conclude that David is not the creator.

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#5
Quote from: SM on Sep 14, 2017, 02:02:14 AM
Don't remember that on the Blu-ray, but it's hinted at in the novel that he might've been recreating something the Engineers had already created.

I believe it's hinted at in the Advent feature.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Sep 14, 2017, 05:18:07 AM
The mural in Prometheus shows an alien hand holding an alien egg. That's enough for me to conclude that David is not the creator.

It's so blink and you'll miss it. So are the fine details in the big mural. Even then, Scott and co. can - and did - just retcon that.

Highland

Highland

#6
Quote from: whiterabbit on Sep 14, 2017, 05:18:07 AM
The mural in Prometheus shows an alien hand holding an alien egg. That's enough for me to conclude that David is not the creator.

Not sure about art books and the like, but I collect art screen prints from movies and one of the better known guys is called J C Richards. He did the mural as a poster and it was titled "Deacon". Not sure how official these things are but everything in that mural is supposed to be the Deacon I think. We've had this conversation before though.

Jonesy1974

Jonesy1974

#7
I think the Alien has existed before but probably not in exactly the same format that Davids created, maybe some form of Deacon type creature. I do think the plan though is/was for the beast in the original Alien to have been one of Davids creations.

The look of the Alien in Covenant is less bio-mechanical and I think the plan was for David to add that element intentionally or accidentally in the next film.

whiterabbit

whiterabbit

#8
In the advent prologue David refers to the alien as the wolf. Which does makes sense with the satanic mural of the Alien in Prometheus. Even if that creature was meant to be the Deacon, it still looks far too alien. Also the creature in the mural next to the engineer looks similar yet different to the alien as well. However each host dna produces a unique form of the alien. So I think it is reasonable to concluded that the deacon/mural/alien are all cousins to one another.

Although when thinking about how close the alien of Covenant is to the Alien, I suppose the only step left is to impregnate an engineer to get it's biomechanical parts.

Highland

Highland

#9
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Sep 14, 2017, 08:50:00 AM
I think the Alien has existed before but probably not in exactly the same format that Davids created, maybe some form of Deacon type creature. I do think the plan though is/was for the beast in the original Alien to have been one of Davids creations.

The look of the Alien in Covenant is less bio-mechanical and I think the plan was for David to add that element intentionally or accidentally in the next film.

Now thats the plan, I don't think that was the plan at the end of Prom.

Jonesy1974

Jonesy1974

#10
Quote from: Highland on Sep 14, 2017, 01:11:20 PM
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Sep 14, 2017, 08:50:00 AM
I think the Alien has existed before but probably not in exactly the same format that Davids created, maybe some form of Deacon type creature. I do think the plan though is/was for the beast in the original Alien to have been one of Davids creations.

The look of the Alien in Covenant is less bio-mechanical and I think the plan was for David to add that element intentionally or accidentally in the next film.

Now thats the plan, I don't think that was the plan at the end of Prom.

Definitely wasn't the plan then. I think it was the plan during Covenant, but who knows if that will still be the plan now!

Highland

Highland

#11
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Sep 14, 2017, 01:18:17 PM
Quote from: Highland on Sep 14, 2017, 01:11:20 PM
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Sep 14, 2017, 08:50:00 AM
I think the Alien has existed before but probably not in exactly the same format that Davids created, maybe some form of Deacon type creature. I do think the plan though is/was for the beast in the original Alien to have been one of Davids creations.

The look of the Alien in Covenant is less bio-mechanical and I think the plan was for David to add that element intentionally or accidentally in the next film.

Now thats the plan, I don't think that was the plan at the end of Prom.

Definitely wasn't the plan then. I think it was the plan during Covenant, but who knows if that will still be the plan now!

Tough to say without that third movie. For me it's 50/50 between meant it and wasn't allowed to use it. None of the artists seemed to have a reason not to use the biomechanical elements other than Scott/Production saying "Has to be fleshy"

Predaker

Predaker

#12
Quote from: DerelictShip on Sep 14, 2017, 01:38:03 AM
So, I heard with the extras in the DVD we find David stole the concept of the Alien off the engineers by following their blueprints. Is this true or is David the master behind all of it.....Id like to believe he's not as smart as we think and the engineers are still the Aliens creator

David is responsible for creating the "original" Alien as we know it. The black goo is what lead to its precursors. Where exactly the black goo came from is anyone's guess.

D. Compton Ambrose

D. Compton Ambrose

#13
Quote from: whiterabbit on Sep 14, 2017, 09:10:49 AM
In the advent prologue David refers to the alien as the wolf. Which does makes sense with the satanic mural of the Alien in Prometheus. Even if that creature was meant to be the Deacon, it still looks far too alien. Also the creature in the mural next to the engineer looks similar yet different to the alien as well. However each host dna produces a unique form of the alien. So I think it is reasonable to concluded that the deacon/mural/alien are all cousins to one another.

Although when thinking about how close the alien of Covenant is to the Alien, I suppose the only step left is to impregnate an engineer to get it's biomechanical parts.

I mean, basically what I've gotten from the scans of David's lab studies is that the Xenomorphs and Neomorphs were created by turning the Engineers' self-aware biotechnology against them and giving it a life of its own. Its life was already there, and David had a kindship with dating back to the LV223 mission. Scott himself once said that it has "always existed", describing it as a "Demon". So, the Satanic allusion is also accurate, too. Giger's visions were often Satanic. The original Space Jockey was torched because they thought it was literally the f**king Devil.

Taxemic

Taxemic

#14
The biomech appearance of the jockey was their suits so I'm not sure how that can be applied to the Alien.

Not complaining but I feel the Alien design in Covenant was just skinny and fleshy because of the way they can use cgi these days and make it look less like a man in a suit.

I think all varieties of the Xenomorph, neo and deacon are related and existed before covenant. David may have perfected it. But something similar wiped out the Engineers on lv233

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