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Author Topic: I hate Fiefeld SO much.  (Read 8789 times)

SM
Aug 25, 2017, 01:57:56 AM
Reply #30 on: Aug 25, 2017, 01:57:56 AM
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Riddles was correct to leave the 'what are my chances scene' in and cocoon scene out the first time.

It is his prerogative to change it however.  Same with Cameron on Aliens, Abyss, T2 etc or Lucas on Star Wars.


Russ840
Aug 25, 2017, 06:53:13 AM
Reply #31 on: Aug 25, 2017, 06:53:13 AM
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Totally agree with the above.  I have watched a couple of fan edits but they dont become my definitive version.

There are instances where i prefer certain alternate and deleted scenes. But as far as i am concerned, the vision that the director, or original creator, intends is the definitive material.   


Olde
Aug 25, 2017, 08:04:10 AM
Reply #32 on: Aug 25, 2017, 08:04:10 AM
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Hurrah for you.  I'd rather watch what the actual artist created, for good or ill.
Good for you. I'd rather watch something of quality than a piece of shit. To each their own, though.


Paranoid Android
Aug 25, 2017, 09:56:16 AM
Reply #33 on: Aug 25, 2017, 09:56:16 AM
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The latter. It strikes me as 'I don't care how many people spent however many years pouring their energy into this - they don't know what they're doing and I'm going to sit at my computer and do it properly.'
Why should someone care how many people spent however many years pouring their energy into a film? Did they not get paid? Was their film not made?

If a fan watches the final product, doesn't like parts of it, wishes to edit them out and doesn't seek profit while doing so, where exactly is the harm?

Completely agree. Like it or not, directors or story tellers have a vision and it's their vision they want you to see.
And you do see that vision when the film comes out. How is that a counter-argument to wanting to edit a film after seeing it?


Russ840
Aug 25, 2017, 10:56:22 AM
Reply #34 on: Aug 25, 2017, 10:56:22 AM
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Im pretty sure SM is just saying that he is not a fan of fan edits. I cant see anything saying that others cannot like them.



SM
Aug 25, 2017, 11:41:18 AM
Reply #36 on: Aug 25, 2017, 11:41:18 AM
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Im pretty sure SM is just saying that he is not a fan of fan edits. I cant see anything saying that others cannot like them.

Indeed.

Not sure how it could've been interpreted differently, but everyone's got different agendas I guess.


Olde
Aug 25, 2017, 11:56:28 AM
Reply #37 on: Aug 25, 2017, 11:56:28 AM
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Because you said you find it disrespectful, when the finished product could itself be disrespectful. A funny extension of your logic means that you'd prefer the 1997 Special Edition of the original Star Wars trilogy over the famed fan remaster of the same movies, dubbed the Star Wars De-Specialized edition, which combed meticulously over the 35mm prints and raised each frame to a higher quality without destroying the artistic integrity of the original films by adding in unnecessary and out of place CGI, making Greedo shoot first, etc.

Unless you're going to actually stand there and defend the Special Edition as something we should swallow wholesale because it was George Lucas's "real vision." I mean, the fan, whose vision you'd take with a grain of salt at best, put it well when he said the Special Edition was "an act of cultural vandalism," which is putting it lightly.


SM
Aug 25, 2017, 12:03:06 PM
Reply #38 on: Aug 25, 2017, 12:03:06 PM
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You'd have a point - if any of the above was remotely close to what I was saying.



SM
Aug 25, 2017, 12:14:19 PM
Reply #40 on: Aug 25, 2017, 12:14:19 PM
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Yeah so?

Since you missed it the first time in your rush to get stroppy.

It's certainly the one I want to see for good or ill.

If people want to make fan cuts - good for them.  Art has been purloined and turned into new things since forever, but they have a different kind of investment in it, and in these instances it's not really one I'm interested in.

If you want to apply spurious "logic" to what I'm saying, go you, I guess?  I'm not sure what the point would be though.  Should I want to watch an old cut of Star Wars, I'll chuck a VHS tape in.



Olde
Aug 25, 2017, 12:39:17 PM
Reply #42 on: Aug 25, 2017, 12:39:17 PM
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If you want to apply spurious "logic" to what I'm saying, go you, I guess?  I'm not sure what the point would be though.  Should I want to watch an old cut of Star Wars, I'll chuck a VHS tape in.
You said you can never imagine seeing a fan cut of anything, ever. Of anything. Ever. It doesn't get any more clear cut a point to argue against than that.

You and I are lucky to have copies of the originals on VHS. But what about people who can't find copies of the originals, and what happens when they're all unusable? Do you actually recognize that the final product is a conglomerate of different people's ideas and isn't 100% artistically genuine? A final product is just a series of compromises. Any attempt to try to say that Prometheus or Covenant are artistically pure and shan't ever be touched by the hands of those who aren't Ridley Scott are just deluding themselves. They're both mediocre products on their own, anyway.

If you don't give a shit about fan cuts, that's fine. I'm not interested in what's going on in Elderly Scott's senile mind these days. The guy is clearly unfit to be making decisions for the franchise; in the AvP Galaxy interview alone, he said that, without any evidence or even reasonable suspicion, that the human race is probably the product of intergalactic visitors, so excuse me for taking his opinion with a grain of salt and thinking that he's actually a fraud and not a real artist. I'm entitled to my opinion as you are of yours. And if that fan cut of Prometheus actually makes the film watchable to not only me but also to others, I feel like it should be celebrated, not mocked or called "disrespectful." It's a movie about aliens popping out of people and people turning into zombies, and you're calling the fan version disrespectful. On behalf of the people who made the edits, I'm sorry these mere low-life fan products disrespect the artistic integrity of the classy topic of aliens popping out of people. We're such philistines that we can't recognize pure artistic greatness achieved in a work that should never be touched like...Prometheus.

If you're only interested in Ridley Scott's works, then by all means I feel you should lap up his shitty products without a critical mind for what could be changed or what could make it better, and never watch anything that might make it in the slightest bit cohere or make more sense. I really don't care. But Prometheus and Covenant in their original states are themselves an insult to me of the original Alien franchise.

Edit: I should also say that fan cuts don't actually hurt the original film in any way. No one's forcing anyone to watch it. How does it disrespect the integrity of the original work when you can watch the original any time you want and actively forget that fan versions exist? You said you "wouldn't trust most fans to recut a movie," but no one's saying those recuts are canon or definitive in any way.

« Last Edit: Aug 25, 2017, 12:47:40 PM by Olde »

Russ840
Aug 25, 2017, 12:49:41 PM
Reply #43 on: Aug 25, 2017, 12:49:41 PM
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The way i see it is the Star Wars trilogy that Lucas had in mind was the special editions. Plus he was the one to implement the changes, no ?  Therefore, not a fan edit. So how does SM contradict himself ? Have i missed something here ? 

Why do people really feel the need to dig eachother out about opinions?


Paranoid Android
Aug 25, 2017, 12:53:52 PM
Reply #44 on: Aug 25, 2017, 12:53:52 PM
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The way i see it is the Star Wars trilogy that Lucas had in mind was the special editions. Plus he was the one to implement the changes, no ?  Therefore, not a fan edit. So how does SM contradict himself ? Have i missed something here ? 
The special edition Lucas made is the inferior cut of the film. The De-Specialized edition - the fan-made cut - is the superior one.


 

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