David invent/improve on the engineer's original weapon? Is he Milton's Satan?

Started by NickisSmart, Jul 18, 2017, 02:28:09 AM

Which weapon is more deadly or effective, on any scale?

The Engineer's neomorph
17 (63%)
David's protomorph
10 (37%)

Total Members Voted: 27

Voting closed: Aug 17, 2017, 02:28:09 AM

Author
David invent/improve on the engineer's original weapon? Is he Milton's Satan? (Read 8,188 times)

NickisSmart

NickisSmart

I started thinking about how similar the neomorphs are to the xenomorphs, and how David's weapon, in the film, isn't actually perfect, or really an improvement, on the original design. If anything, it's a huge step backwards. I don't mind this from a narrative standpoint. After all, David is completely insane (which Walter points out, in the film). However, any claims that David makes in regards to being the original creator or inventor of this new species or bio-weapon needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. One, he's nuts; two, there already exists an earlier design that is physiologically similar to the newer model, that, as far as I'm concerned, is also more effective than it, as far as infecting and disseminating through multiple species, not just one.

I talk more about this, here:



What do you guys think, however? Did David invent anything, or did he improve on the original design? Or is he really just totally nuts, and the film isn't about technology efficacy or truth, but actually is about "perfect," individual artistic expression, instead?

Also, in regards to David's sexualized, rapacious design, I often wondered, when presented with a human host, or something similar, it always goes for the mouth. Given it representing sexual violation or rape, couldn't it theoretically go for the other body opening--or, if the victim were female, the birth canal, and thus have a perfect nesting place for the creature? What say you guys about this?




My follow-up video:



A follow up to my video about David, from Alien: Covenant, not being an inventor. Here, I say that David creates the xenomorph, or eventually will, but it, the xenomorph, created by him, isn't what we, the audience thinks it is; it's not a weapon, but an artist statement designed to undermine the idea that the Engineers themselves are infallible gods. Its presence suggests that David can pervert or destroy their work, just like Satan, in Paradise Lost, does, with God's own Eden.

SM

After sixty seven pages of bickering - lets see how this goes...

blood.

We don't really know to what extent Davids research contributed to the family tree that reults in the xenomorph. Were the neos a precursor of his design? Or just a random product of the goos accelerated mutation combining down it's own hnique evolutionary cycle?

SM

Can a robot even be "insane"?

tleilaxu

The black goo (which spawns neomorphs and neomorphy things) is a weapon. It's designed to destroy all animal life until none remains. The Xenomorph on the other hand is not such a weapon. It has a (somewhat) sustainable life cycle. The crucial difference is the AIM. It is not the eradication of unwanted specimens, but rather the creation of a perfect organism.

whiterabbit

Creation has to have some sort of engineering involved, from Davids own words, he appears to just be mixing shit together to see what happens.  Be funny if David can't actually create. When he says he created perfection he could have been doing nothing more than showing off to Walter.

So yea it is possible that David is just a 2 year old playing with super play-dough.

Highland

Quote from: tleilaxu on Jul 18, 2017, 06:10:29 AM
The black goo (which spawns neomorphs and neomorphy things) is a weapon. It's designed to destroy all animal life until none remains. The Xenomorph on the other hand is not such a weapon. It has a (somewhat) sustainable life cycle. The crucial difference is the AIM. It is not the eradication of unwanted specimens, but rather the creation of a perfect organism.

Well it isn't now, but in the original Alien that's what Scott thought the eggs were and the Derelict, then he just changed his mind.

Kane's other son

David's not trying to create a better weapon. The goo/neomorph combo is more potent if you want to destroy a planet. David's trying to create a "perfect" organism.

NickisSmart

Quote from: Kane's other son on Jul 18, 2017, 07:15:15 AM
David's not trying to create a better weapon. The goo/neomorph combo is more potent if you want to destroy a planet. David's trying to create a "perfect" organism.

I would agree. But what does perfect mean, in his eyes? Perverted? Rapacious? Cruel? Unclouded by delusions of conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality?

What I like about David is I'm not entirely sure I understand his motives or his artistic vision, which is fun.

Highland

Quote from: NickisSmart on Jul 18, 2017, 07:28:58 AM
Quote from: Kane's other son on Jul 18, 2017, 07:15:15 AM
David's not trying to create a better weapon. The goo/neomorph combo is more potent if you want to destroy a planet. David's trying to create a "perfect" organism.

I would agree. But what does perfect mean, in his eyes? Perverted? Rapacious? Cruel? Unclouded by delusions of conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality?

What I like about David is I'm not entirely sure I understand his motives or his artistic vision, which is fun.

Well I guess he wants to be able to procreate - which he can't. So his creation makes that happen for him and with humans (who he hates) as the source. The goo just does random stuff.

whiterabbit

Davids using trail and error to create the perfect organism.

axiomatic

Quote from: SM on Jul 18, 2017, 05:49:09 AM
Can a robot even be "insane"?

Why not? Anyone who thinks AI will not be flawed in more ways than one has never dealt with software on an operational level.

Assuming we manage to get there there is no way we will able to make it perfect and faultless. How those imperfections will manifest is the truly interesting question.

SM

QuoteWhy not?

Because it acts according to its programming.

axiomatic

Quote from: SM on Jul 18, 2017, 09:07:56 AM
QuoteWhy not?

Because it acts according to its programming.

So do we. We're an evolved system while David is an artificially created one.

Programming is flawed and when dealing with complex systems there are often interactions one cannot predict or even expect.

Anyone who thinks we will be able to get Asimov's perfectly constrained machines is kidding themselves.

timiteh

timiteh

#14
For the Poll, I think that the Neomorph is a more efficient genocidal weapon than the David's Xenomorph will ever be.
In fact the Black good launched by the Juggernaut is the most efficient of them all.
Now does David invent anything ?
Assuming, that i strongly dislike David my first straight answer would be no.
Now, it is hard to say as the movie seem to imply that the results of his experiments is a creature which didn't exist before.
So from a certain point of view, David does invent something. Though is it by design or by luck ?

Btw, i totaly agree with the video  :)


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