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Author Topic: Empire Podcast Alien: Covenant with Ridley Scott [...  (Read 9951 times)

echobbase79
May 25, 2017, 12:58:44 AM
Reply #60 on: May 25, 2017, 12:58:44 AM
Q
like i said in the book thread, some one needs to fire the editor for cutting out all this important info.

Didnt the same thing happened with Prom? Important stuff left out and explained in the novel or in later interviews.

Yes, I agree. I don't like the choices his editor makes. He basically gutted Prometheus! The workprint edition is so much better that it needs an official release. I haven't finished the novelization of Covenant, but from what I've read so far, I'm getting a much better sense of who the characters  are than the actual even tried to do.


Robopadna
May 25, 2017, 01:21:49 AM
Reply #61 on: May 25, 2017, 01:21:49 AM
Q
Its unfortunate, cause Aliens was a far superior sequel to Alien, and had a bigger influence then the 1st movie.

That's a matter of opinion. It's an entirely different type of movie. I prefer the first by far.

like i said in the book thread, some one needs to fire the editor for cutting out all this important info.

Didnt the same thing happened with Prom? Important stuff left out and explained in the novel or in later interviews.

Nothing gets cut without Scott oking it.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 01:24:00 AM by Robopadna »

Mustangjeff
May 25, 2017, 01:24:41 AM
Reply #62 on: May 25, 2017, 01:24:41 AM
Q
I can't help but think we're missing a lot of context here. The engineers sound like a bunch of smug assholes that deserved to get f**ked up.

Except there isn't any additional context.

It's like the nonsensical answers that parents give children when they are too lazy to answer the question intelligently and understandably.



kwisatz
May 25, 2017, 01:27:24 AM
Reply #63 on: May 25, 2017, 01:27:24 AM
Q
Im getting a bit tired of Scotts extravagant BS theories when he hasnt been able to make a rudimentally coherent film in 15 years.

Lately its accumulating in a way where i actually start to think hes slowly crossing into dementia territory (i mean no offense hes what 80?).

You didn't think the Martian was coherent?

Yea only saw that once, i dont know maybe, its a pretty straightforward film (guy survives on mars, guy escapes from Mars its hard to make this very incoherent even for Ridley lol), i doubt the science is very accurate and the dimwit level in NASA is abnormally high (who wouldve thought, maybe its accurate though :D) but i give you that one. The film is super meh by the way (IMO). I forgot American Gangster by the way, i really liked that one i think. Lets say from Gladiator on its 80% meh with moments of genius shining through.

Maybe Ridley just forgets to take his pills from time to time.

Thats when its getting good..

« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 01:32:49 AM by kwisatz »

Robopadna
May 25, 2017, 01:34:11 AM
Reply #64 on: May 25, 2017, 01:34:11 AM
Q
Im getting a bit tired of Scotts extravagant BS theories when he hasnt been able to make a rudimentally coherent film in 15 years.

Lately its accumulating in a way where i actually start to think hes slowly crossing into dementia territory (i mean no offense hes what 80?).

You didn't think the Martian was coherent?

Yea only saw that once, i dont know maybe, its a pretty straightforward film (guy survives on mars, guy escapes from Mars its hard to make this very incoherent even for Ridley lol), i doubt the science is very accurate and the dimwit level in NASA is abnormally high (who wouldve thought, maybe its accurate though :D) but i give you that one. The film is super meh by the way (IMO). I forgot American Gangster by the way, i really liked that one i think. Lets say from Gladiator on its 80% meh with moments of genius shining through.

Maybe Ridley just forgets to take his pills from time to time.

Thats when its getting good..

Are you using the word coherent when you mean good?  He's made almost entirely coherent movies.


RidgeTop
May 25, 2017, 01:36:07 AM
Reply #65 on: May 25, 2017, 01:36:07 AM
Q
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2017/05/16/ridley-scott-alien-covenant-im-not-letting-it-go-this-time/101733026/

It's pretty clear he wants this franchise to himself, to explore whatever he likes no matter how out of place. Fans and other interested directors be damned.

Quote
You didn't think the Martian was coherent?

It was, and I loved that film, but that was 100% someone else's story. Ridley doesn't seem to do too well when he's creatively involved with the writing process as he was with Prometheus and Covenant. My former film teacher put it best:

"I've always reduced Wes Anderson to "an art director in search of a movie rather than a director" and was told by a friend recently "that's how I've always felt about Ridley Scott" and, despite a few asterisks from a forty year features career: my friend was right."


« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 01:44:21 AM by RidgeTop »

kwisatz
May 25, 2017, 01:39:30 AM
Reply #66 on: May 25, 2017, 01:39:30 AM
Q
Prometheus, Robin Hood, Exodus or The Counselor are by no definition coherent films. The Counselor especially is such a filmic mess i really find it hard to find a film more incoherent (in terms of visual storytelling, editoring, character developement, thematic coherence) on this production level.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 01:43:35 AM by kwisatz »

Abed
May 25, 2017, 01:41:47 AM
Reply #67 on: May 25, 2017, 01:41:47 AM
Q
"And sorry, but when any of the other stupid twats (the interviewers) say GEIGER one more time, I seriously f**k up their perfect composure!!!!" - Giger is an important figure to the franchise, and that's how Giger is pronounced.



FJC
May 25, 2017, 02:14:03 AM
Reply #69 on: May 25, 2017, 02:14:03 AM
Q
Haven't had time to listen but sorry...  a good film shouldn't require the director to answer questions in interviews... it should be in the damn film itself.


BringbackJonesy!
May 25, 2017, 02:58:30 AM
Reply #70 on: May 25, 2017, 02:58:30 AM
Q
For various reasons, I've long settled on choosing to view the complete onscreen storyline of 'Ripley' as consisting of the ALIEN and ALIENS movies only...and prefer to imagine that the ALIEN 3 and ALIEN RESURRECTION efforts merely represent a couple of 'bad dreams' she endures on her safe hypersleep homewards.   

And I've also decided that the only way for the rest of of the 'franchise' to continue to be watchable in any way is to equally distance those entries from the original ALIEN/ALIENS combination, too...whether it be the likes of AvP or PROMETHEUS...and to look on them as mere 'what if?'- type, 'fan-fiction' scenarios using some of the original source elements and characters.

Although I thought it was a disappointing plot device to begin with, I could have accepted the 'Humans made by Superhumans' premise that Ridley chose to tell with his PROMETHEUS movie...but the ongoing storyline was completely messed - up from the start for me, due to his insistance on totally 're-imagining' one of the best scenes in his original classic.

Sir Ridley is an amazing visualist for sure, but I point blank refuse to look on PROMETHEUS and ALIEN COVENANT as any sort of 'official canon' in my own idealised ALIEN mythos,

The plain fact is that the 'Spacejockey' scene was always one of the most unsettling, and mysteriously-'alien' moments of the original movie for me...and to see it's atmospheric 'Giger-esque' quality diluted in the manner that Ridley chose to go down, was completely ill-judged from the start as far as I'm concerned,

Deciding to turn the 'Spacejockey' into a 'spacesuited humanoid' MIGHT have worked...if it wasn't so bleeding obvious that it was MEANT to be the SKELETAL remnants of some 'otherworldly creature' to begin with!  I will never be able to reconcile Ridley's PROMETHEUS storyline as anything more than an 'alternate take' on the source material due to this.

And It's not the mere fact that the 'Spacejockey' is described as 'fossilized' that makes the point.,,it;s the fact that Dallas then states "Bones have bent outward, like he exploded from inside" - that's 'BONES' Ridley.  And we then see an extreme close-up of what certainly looks like old bones, rather than some sort of 'calcified', occified spacesuit',  And to cap things off, the 'skull;s mouth - area has what looks like actual TEETH in the moody close - up of it, moments before it goes to shadow.

It's a freakin' monstrous SKELETON Ridley!!!...pure and simple.

So yeah, I'll get more out of David's misadventures by looking on his whole storyline as being totally unrelated to the ALIEN movie in the first place, and look forward to what this 're-imagining' brings...

But I certainly WON'T be looking on Ridley's latest additions to the 'franchise' as anything more than yet another 'Expanded Universe' kind of 'Fan Fic' version of the 'Xenomorphs'. 

 :P


CainsSon
May 25, 2017, 03:13:25 AM
Reply #71 on: May 25, 2017, 03:13:25 AM
Q
like i said in the book thread, some one needs to fire the editor for cutting out all this important info.

Didnt the same thing happened with Prom? Important stuff left out and explained in the novel or in later interviews.

Yes, I agree. I don't like the choices his editor makes. He basically gutted Prometheus! The workprint edition is so much better that it needs an official release. I haven't finished the novelization of Covenant, but from what I've read so far, I'm getting a much better sense of who the characters  are than the actual even tried to do.

Many of these editing choices are being made because Ridely Scott is trying to guarantee fans sequels and to do so he needs to turn in a film NO LONGER than 2 hours so it makes enough money to warrant a sequel. This isn't a kinda sorta idea Im dishing out here either. Ridley Scott went on the record to state this during the editing of Prometheus. If the film has a 100million dollar budget and fans want an R-Rated film, it MUST BE under 2 hours to make back it's money. Nearly all of a film's profit (especially on R-Rated films) is made on its opening weekends. During those weekends, the film needs to have as many showtimes as possible. Even and extra 15 min, can seriously derail the number of showtimes in a single day for a film like this. This is why both 2nd halves in PROMETHEUS and COVENANT are so choppy. Scott did this so you get to see another film.

That said, he should release Director's Cuts then.


echobbase79
May 25, 2017, 03:14:29 AM
Reply #72 on: May 25, 2017, 03:14:29 AM
Q
Why does he consider Alien 3 a shoot'em up? They have no weapons.

like i said in the book thread, some one needs to fire the editor for cutting out all this important info.

Didnt the same thing happened with Prom? Important stuff left out and explained in the novel or in later interviews.

Yes, I agree. I don't like the choices his editor makes. He basically gutted Prometheus! The workprint edition is so much better that it needs an official release. I haven't finished the novelization of Covenant, but from what I've read so far, I'm getting a much better sense of who the characters  are than the actual even tried to do.

Many of these editing choices are being made because Ridely Scott is trying to guarantee fans sequels and to do so he needs to turn in a film NO LONGER than 2 hours so it makes enough money to warrant a sequel. This isn't a kinda sorta idea Im dishing out here either. Ridley Scott went on the record to state this during the editing of Prometheus. If the film has a 100million dollar budget and fans want an R-Rated film, it MUST BE under 2 hours to make back it's money. Nearly all of a film's profit (especially on R-Rated films) is made on its opening weekends. During those weekends, the film needs to have as many showtimes as possible. Even and extra 15 min, can seriously derail the number of showtimes in a single day for a film like this. This is why both 2nd halves in PROMETHEUS and COVENANT are so choppy. Scott did this so you get to see another film.

That said, he should release Director's Cuts then.

Yeah, I know all that. I guess I'm just thinking of story over dollars, but you're right that's not how the system works. It's like slasher films have to always be around 90 minutes long or shorter. You hardly see that type of film go over two hours because they need to get as many showings in as they can.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 03:25:00 AM by echobbase79 »

rabidranger
May 25, 2017, 03:46:04 AM
Reply #73 on: May 25, 2017, 03:46:04 AM
Q
This is the same illogical nonsense he came up with during 'Prometheus' (except with less Jesus).

Exactly how were we "killing the planet" two thousand years ago?

And how the f**k would destroying the entire planet's ecosystem in such a catastrophic way be better?

Humans were no more "killing themselves" than any other species (probably a good deal less so, if anything, since communities of people realised they needed to band together to survive harsh times, like bad weather). I don't know what he means by declaring we couldn't "settle down", either, because we had huge empires existing and most tribes had to settle down and farm if they wanted to survive.

Really, Scott? If someone's acting immaturely, the logical thing to do is to f**k the planet up beyond all recognition? That, right there, is a case of species acting both immaturely and irresponsibly.

Whenever he says this stuff, I always think of this guy...



To be fair, the black good kills off all non-plant life and allows (supposedly) the Engineers the opportunity to start over.


DaddyYautja
May 25, 2017, 03:54:56 AM
Reply #74 on: May 25, 2017, 03:54:56 AM
Q
like i said in the book thread, some one needs to fire the editor for cutting out all this important info.

Didnt the same thing happened with Prom? Important stuff left out and explained in the novel or in later interviews.

Yes, I agree. I don't like the choices his editor makes. He basically gutted Prometheus! The workprint edition is so much better that it needs an official release. I haven't finished the novelization of Covenant, but from what I've read so far, I'm getting a much better sense of who the characters  are than the actual even tried to do.

Many of these editing choices are being made because Ridely Scott is trying to guarantee fans sequels and to do so he needs to turn in a film NO LONGER than 2 hours so it makes enough money to warrant a sequel. This isn't a kinda sorta idea Im dishing out here either. Ridley Scott went on the record to state this during the editing of Prometheus. If the film has a 100million dollar budget and fans want an R-Rated film, it MUST BE under 2 hours to make back it's money. Nearly all of a film's profit (especially on R-Rated films) is made on its opening weekends. During those weekends, the film needs to have as many showtimes as possible. Even and extra 15 min, can seriously derail the number of showtimes in a single day for a film like this. This is why both 2nd halves in PROMETHEUS and COVENANT are so choppy. Scott did this so you get to see another film.

That said, he should release Director's Cuts then.

Then the question comes up.... why dont they account for this?

Did we reeeeeally need that tired starting act of this whole silly space [add job title here] landing on a planet and being infected?


 

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