Alien Covenant Fan Reviews

Started by Darkness, May 09, 2017, 05:39:30 PM

What did you think of Alien Covenant?

Loved it. (5/5)
98 (21.4%)
Good, it was enjoyable. (4/5)
148 (32.4%)
It was okay. (3/5)
89 (19.5%)
Could have been better. (2/5)
60 (13.1%)
Didn't like it. (1/5)
32 (7%)
Hated it! (0/5)
30 (6.6%)

Total Members Voted: 455

Author
Alien Covenant Fan Reviews (Read 274,103 times)

Hudson

Hudson

#900
Quote from: Engineer on May 23, 2017, 05:40:34 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on May 23, 2017, 05:35:58 PM
The xeno hasn't really been mysterious since Aliens; when it became a franchise based on the character of Ripley.
I beg to differ... the mystery I'm referring to is it's origin. I never wanted to know, but Ridley gave it to us anyway. Same with the space jockey, and it has not done the trick for me...

They could've made a decent prequel, but they reached too far. The mistake was trying to tie the mythos into an explanation for all of human existence. That's not exactly what I was hungry for when thinking about what the origins of the Xenomorph could be. Instead of getting the origin of the Xenomorph in terms of what their home planet might be like, we got the origin of humanity and a very lazy design that revealed the Space Jockey not to be an interesting type of biomechanoid Giger-alien, but a space suit worn by a plain white bald guy with big muscles.

TheChaser

TheChaser

#901
I've watched the movie twice, here are some of my thoughts.
I really liked the visuals and photography of the movie, but that's the least we can expect from Ridley Scott we know he can create beautiful movies.
Loved the creatures and the design of the Engineer city, David's workshop was also amazing wish they would have show more these two scenes.
The script had a lot more potential, the characters have made some stupid decisions sometimes and there were some plot holes as well. The biggest one that I still cannot forgive for the writers somehow is when David cuts his hair to look exactly like Walter but no one is reacting, like it's fully normal.
I think the biggest issue of the movie was that it wanted to be the follow up of Prometheus and at the same time a true Alien movie, well it doesn't really succeeded.
Also some parts were heavily edited and cutted, specially the last part of the movie. The life cycle of the creatures was way too fast as well, this is maybe also because of the edits. I would have stayed like a half an hour more easily, I really hope there will be and extended director's cut.
The ending was left so open, I mean I have not clue where could the next episode go.  I'   m pretty sure in one of those pods there will be some famous actor or more haha.
The score was fantastic I think Jed Kurzel did a great job, it was good to hear the references from the other movies.

I really loved Prometheus, it was so mysterious and something fresh by introducing the Engineers so obviously I was expecting more screen time from them. It's a bit confusing if this was indeed their home planet, because if it really was they had only one city? Also such an ancient and advanced civilization cannot live on a single planet right, I mean they were able to travel through the galaxy and create life they must have populated many planets. Also it seemed like they were happy to see one of their ships arrive as they were cheering, (little that they know it's not piloted by one of them) so they were sort of expecting the arrival of one of their ships. It felt like these Engineers were actually retired from their technology, by the way the city looked stunning with that ancient roman architecture. Anyway I really wish and hope to see and learn more about them in the sequel or maybe we get even a spin off in the future, because there are so many questions left open.
Also they knew about the Xeno, I mean there is a mural in Prometheus which actually looks like the Deacon on closer look. So David has recreated this creature and perfect it, the result was the look of the classic Xenomorph.

So all in all it was a good movie, but it had much more potential and I've expected something a bit different but I'll probably watch it a third time as well so I will take my part from the box office haha.
By the way I took with me some of my friends both times, some of them doesn't liked Prometheus at all but even them wanted to see and know more about the Engineers and actually everyone I've asked and discussed with. So Ridley and Fox if you are reading this in the next movie we want more Engineers, like a lot of them! :D There is so much potential if they would go that direction.

szkoki

szkoki

#902
isnt David too much of a human in this after Prometheus?

Evanus

Evanus

#903
Quote from: szkoki on May 23, 2017, 08:46:57 PM
isnt David too much of a human in this after Prometheus?
I think that's kind of the point. He's become more human, without even noticing it himself. He even makes mistakes like we do, like when he thought Byron wrote Ozymandias. Michael Fassbender also said David has more human traits, in an interview some time ago.

szkoki

szkoki

#904
now its just about a serial killer. also a big downside for the Alien universe

https://youtu.be/KcJs4qJPQ_M?t=89

Predaker

Predaker

#905
Quote from: Predaker on May 22, 2017, 03:48:35 AM
Quote from: RidgeTop on May 21, 2017, 08:31:17 AM
This is going to be ranty, but I attempted to be as fair as I could in my own personal assessment and refrain from bitching. I'm putting it in a spoiler tag to save everyone the wall of text.

I personally give the movie a five out of ten. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about it, and this "you're not a true fan" business is silly. Anyone can be a true fan and like or dislike the film.

Spoiler


Alien: Covenant review, oh boy, here we go...

I'll be really impressed if anyone makes it through all of this.

I just got back from my second viewing, wanted to give it another chance before finalizing my opinion.

These are my opinions, my speculations, and my frustrations, I'm just sharing my thoughts here and I don't expect anyone to agree with me. It is worth seeing, and anyone who is interested in it should make up their own mind. If you liked the movie, great! I wish I could.

Alien: Covenant is a bad film.

Not only is it a bad film, it's a bad Alien Prequel, and it's a bad Prometheus Sequel.

It's my least favorite of them all, out of any of the Alien, Predator, or Alien Vs. Predator movies. I like it less than Prometheus.

It brings me no pleasure to say this or have this opinion, anyone who knows me will know I was excited for this movie and wanted it to be great. However, I knew after Prometheus and from some of the rumors I was hearing that my expectations should be measured, so I made sure to keep them as low as I could for the release of an Alien film. It didn't help. Like Prometheus, I watched it again, hoping it would grow on me. It didn't.

I realize this, coming from someone who defends the Alien Vs. Predator movies, won't be a popular assessment. That's OK, it's mine and I'm just sharing it. I'll get to why I think those films, while not as well crafted, served the franchise/s better and had more passion in them.

I'm going to go through the whole plot here. If you just want to see my pros, cons and overall thoughts, skip to the end.

------------------

We start with an intriguing scene where David awakens and meets his creator, Peter Weyland for the first time. There is an interesting back and forth here between creator and creation, and it's clear that this is the theme the movie is going to be focusing on, along with David himself. The scene ends with Weyland, uncomfortable with David's line of questioning, requesting for tea right next to him as a power play. I suppose this is the beginning of David's daddy issues.

Really this movie should have been called David: Covenant.

Skip ahead 10 years after Prometheus and we're with the Covenant, a colonization ship, on its long journey to the planet Origae 6. The ship, its solar sails extended is impacted by a random neutrino burst. Walter awakens the crew, and James Franco's character, Captian Branson remains in his pod. Something is clearly wrong with his pod and before long the inside of it bursts into flames, killing him. This was the first part of the movie I was a bit confused by. You would think, due to rank, Walter would be awakening him first. The pod did not look particularly damaged, and they don't build these things with emergency releases?

In any case, the religious character, Oram, assumes command and is uneasy with his perceptions of the crew judging him.
I enjoyed the scene with the characters repairing the damaged ship, we get some really good views of the Covenant ship, as well as the impressive, practically built and moebius inspired spacesuits. Also, seeing a scene straight from Alien, where they eject their dead crew-member's body out of an airlock and into space was a bit of a treat.

As they are about to depart they receive a transmission. A ghostly image who is singing. Tennessee recognizes the song. I guess John Denver is still pretty well known a century from now? Walter, the android on the ship with the same look of David, is logical, straightforward, and yet subtly compassionate. I like him as a character.

They track the transmission to its source on a nearby planet, much closer than their terraforming destination. Oram decides they should check it out as it could potentially be a better candidate for their colony. This alone would be a bad reason and I'm glad they decided to throw in the "This is a human transmission and we're obligated to investigate" bit. Daniels, our female main character, calls this out as a bad idea.

After descending through the stormy atmosphere to the planet's surface, a scene that had distant vibes of the dropship descent in Aliens, they land on the edge of a lake and begin their trek. They have no protective suits, or procedure for an initial walk-around.

Even the astronauts in Prometheus were not that stupid.

Yes they mention the atmospheric contents but like any new planet landed on, you would think initial pathogen tests would need to be made. Space truckers were more concerned with decontamination and quarantine.

Eventually they come across the crashed ship that Shaw and David used to escape LV-223. I had to admit, their reaction to coming across a ship of potential Alien origin was pretty subdued. We see spores infecting a couple crew members. One puts his damn face in it, pokes it, and notices it release. He doesn't think to tell anyone he might be infected once he starts showing symptoms, a la Holloway in Prometheus. They find the origin of the signal and realize that Shaw and David were aboard the ship. Once two characters get sick they rush their way back to the lander.

Two people make it back first, one infected, one accompanying him. They get to the lander and Karine begs for Farris' help. They go to the medbay, Faris proceeds to lock them in, afraid of an outbreak (even though it wouldn't matter as her face had just been sprayed with blood). Karine realizes something emerging after... hugging a potentially infected guy? She begs Farris to open the door. Farris, in a panic, leaves again, runs to grab a weapon. The Neomorph emerges, I guess it's called the bloodburster for this one. Immediately Karine kicks it back, it viciously attacks her and tears her face up. Farris proceeds to open the door, slip on the bloody floor and shoot the ceiling, crawl back out the door, breaking her foot upon it closing. The bloodburster, the one that was just kicked into the wall a moment earlier proceeds to BREAK THE GLASS on the bulkhead door. Farris shoots around the room in a panic, hitting some tanks and blowing up the lander.

The other bloodburster emerges from the throat of the other victim. I'm not using their names because these two people have not been established as characters, so I really don't care what is happening to them other than seeing the thrilling gore of it. The Neomorph comes back LITERALLY SECONDS LATER, NEARLY FULLY GROWN. They shoot at the Neomorph as it takes off Walter's hand. David comes in and fires a flare, I guess the Neomorphs don't like light too much as they scurry off.

David leads them to the Engineer "Necropolis," which like with the Juggernaut, the group seems awfully calm about. This looks ripped straight out of Rome, as if it's the Vatican itself. We get some Prometheus vibes here, seeing a temple like interior with large stone heads. David explains his backstory and asks a few questions of his own.

It's here where Daniels talks to Walter and says what really should have been the tagline of the film:

"Nothing here makes any sense."

Most of the second act is here. We get some intriguing conversations between Walter and David. They have a strange flute-playing scene together.

"I'll do the fingering."

At one point they walked into a garden that was Ripped straight from the Arnold Böcklin painting "Isle of the Dead." It's here where David reveals that Shaw is dead and that he loved her. Making up a story about how the Juggernaut accidentally deployed its cargo and in the confusion their ship crashed.

We see a flashback where David drops the ships deadly cargo on the Engineer city. Why? Who knows. Some glances of female engineers. This is their home planet but they all live in one city? Why were there gates confining them to the courtyard? They are an advanced space-faring race with no defenses? Lots of questions here that we've been waiting for since the end of Prometheus five years ago. If you were hoping for any satisfying answers you're out of luck. The black goo instantly mummifies them? I suppose this is another instance of it doing whatever the plot calls for.

Back to the main story, in true horror movie fashion, Rosenthal goes off on her own to "freshen up" in a dark Alien city she knows nothing about... sure. Of course the Neomorph creeps in and bites her head off. Scott apparently wants us to really get this as going forward there are three extended shots of her head floating in the water.

During this whole time the crew of the Covenant ship is trying to re-establish contact with the ground crew. There's some good tension between the three bridge crew Members, with Tennessee wanting to risk the Covenant by flying into the storm.

The acting captian, Oram walks in to find the Neomorph munching on Rosenthal's corpse. David has already arrived here and is apparently trying to gain the Neomorph's trust. It strangely stands up straight and walks over to David. Oram has had enough and kills the Neomorph with his assault rifle. David has an emotional outburst upon this, which should be a pretty big red flag to Oram. Oram demands answers and David proceeds to show him his Frankenstein lair.

It's here where we start to gain the realization that David is the creator of the Xenomorphs. Ughhhh, Why Scott? Why did you do this? No one wanted this but you. Even the most praising reviews have been tepid about this. I'll express more of my thoughts after this plot run through. David leads Oram like a lamb to the slaughter into his egg chamber and tells him to put his face in the egg. Like an idiot Oram does this and gets facehugged. Didn't see that one coming.

Again, literally moments later. the Xenomorph is bursting out, only it's not a chestburster. It's a mini-Alien that mimics David in reaching its hands out. OK, what? We go back to Walter and David, after seeing Shaw's dissected and mutated corpse. So much for any satisfying conclusion for that character from Prometheus. David goes a bit meta here and plays the theme from Prometheus on his flute. Walter has figured David out. It's here was have a strange quasi incestuous, homo-erotic kiss between both of Micheal Fassbender's characters, before David attacks Walter and disables him. We can see Walter's skin repairing itself.

The characters begin their escape of the temple and, another is facehugged for about 5 seconds before it being cut off of his face. The instantly full-grown Xenomorph shows up (eat your heart out Paul W. S. Anderson), kills one of them as the facehugged for 5 seconds other guy runs off. After David gets all creepy and rapey on Daniels, Walter shows back up and we then get a straight out of Mortal Kombat fight between the two androids. The fight cuts away.

Tennessee arrives in the cargo lander. And why again does a ship of over two thousand people only have one shuttle? "Walter" (we know who this really is) follows them out. After that it's the Xenomorph. They climb aboard as the Xenomorph also hops on. Here's that fight from the trailer we all saw. After some cat-and-mouse back and forth between Daniels and the Alien, it's instantly crunched by heavy machinery and released into pieces, in the scene after its birth. Perfect Organism indeed.

I really get the impression Scott wasn't too interested in making an Alien film here.
They make it back to the ship. Some nice shots of the Covenant in the stormy clouds around this bit, reminded me of Event Horizon. Daniels repairs "Walter's" face, (I thought his skin was self repairing?). David really had time to cut his hand off and do his hair just right so that she wouldn't recognize him up close?

After they depart, it becomes evident a Xenomorph is on the ship. I guess five seconds is enough for a facehug to be effective. And again, the Xenomorph is an adult, instantly. The other two crew members apparently thought it would be a good time to have sex in the showers, and here we get our infamous shower scene that we expected from the trailers. I was actually looking forward to this, I was hoping it would be long and disturbing, but it ends up being quick, horror-movie trope fare, which some were initially afraid of but I defended before I ended up seeing.

They lead the Xenomorph into the terraforming bay, trap it in a tractor, and attempt to blow it out of the airlock. It leaps back on the ships platform just in time to be impaled and thrust into space. Again, because we haven't seen that before.

After getting in the hypersleep pods, Daniels realizes this movie's BIG TWIST! David is pretending to be Walter. Why didn't he just play along with her conversation? The twist was ridiculous. A real twist would have been if it really had been Walter, who I ended up liking much more than David in the film. Instead, the movie went and did the ultimate cliche.

In the very weird final scene, David pukes up some tiny facehuggers encased in the same material that the human fetuses were. OK... how?

------------------

When I first walked out of the theater, I was feeling a lot like I did after Prometheus, confusion, denial. Upon reading the reviews of those both defending the film and criticizing it, and thinking upon it myself, like with Prometheus, I was left with immense frustration and disappointment.

This movie wasn't an Alien film.

Now when I criticize Scott here, I do so granting him the respect of a skilled artist and visionary. I can't deny he knows how to direct, and create beautiful scenes. But personally, I don't think any artist, or the work of any artist, is above criticism. The Martian restored some of my faith in Scott as a film maker, but that wasn't his story. It only illustrated well that Scott's strength lies in his visuals, and when he tries to get too involved in a story, it comes across as just random, pseudo-philosophical musings.

More and more I see Alien wasn't his masterpiece. It was a perfect storm of a strong director (who was still new so could only have so much creative control), the story of Dan O' Bannon and Ronald Shusset, (Both of those writers having criticisms of the direction of the franchise, including Prometheus), and the artistry of H.R. Giger and Ron Cobb. Without any of these elements, the symphony that was Alien likely wouldn't have been nearly as effective as it was.

The problem now is that Scott seems to want to be the entire symphony. Although he didn't write Prometheus and Covenant, he was deeply involved in the story and writing process. I really feel he was completely uninterested in listening to the criticisms of Prometheus, only doubling and tripling down on its flaws. I find it hard to believe, despite what Scott says on how he "listened to the fans." If he did he would have known that our problems went well beyond not seeing the Alien.

This film doesn't even grant us that much. I'm willing to bet the Alien has less screen time in this than in the original film. And even when it was not on screen in Alien, it was in the background, lurking. The threat of it was ever present. Our space trucker characters were all known to the audience, they planned, failed, made mistakes, but they were still smart. They acted how people would act. Prometheus and Covenant both threw this out the window.

There were zero creature practical effects that I could see, if there were any, they were too quick to notice. CG and Practical effects are both great tools for filmmakers to use but when you use all CGI for convenience sake, in the installment of a franchise that is known for its outstanding legacy with practical creature effects, you do it a tremendous disservice.

Scott seems intent on making David the center of the Alien universe, and I'm gonna call it now. David will be the Space Jockey.

I have to wonder if Scott is just becoming cynical.

Like Prometheus, this film ended on a semi-cliffhanger, teasing us that we will get our answers in the sequel. But we didn't get any answers to the giant questions left at the end of Prometheus, why should I wait another three to five years for the answers to this that will likely again, only raise questions and answer nothing. It is everything wrong with Hollywood these days. This movie is a corporate product, and we are to keep throwing money at it with the fleeting hope that it may satisfy, eventually.

The immense advertising and marketing campaign for Covenant was entirely dishonest.

I get the feeling Fox forced Scott to make this an Alien film, so he threw an Alien in to hardly be seen. Far more interested in Androids and philosophy, and turning everything we know on its head for the sake of doing so.

Essentially, this film ruins the mystery of the Alien in the same way Prometheus ruined the mystery of the Space Jockey. Scott said in interviews "No one bothered to ask about the man in the chair." OF COURSE WE DID, and everyone had their own answer for it. That was the beauty of the Space Jockey. It was the ultimate mystery of the Alien Universe. It's the same for the Xenomorph itself, the joy and beauty is that we didn't know where they were from or why they existed, they just were, because space is weird. Hence the name "Alien."

Is it really an "Alien" if it's just the result of an insane android? And for those who never liked the idea of Cameron's Aliens as bugs, David LITERALLY USES BUGS TO CREATE THE XENOMORPH.

I'm tempted to just agree with Dan O'Bannon when he said about the Alien subsequent films:

"I'd like to see it stop. A horror movie's a fragile thing, and once you've gotten past the original, it isn't scary anymore. So you do a bunch of sequels to a horror movie, all they do is drain any remaining impact out of the original. All of the sequels to for instance Invasion Of The Bodysnatchers, same thing; they over-expose the ideas, and when you look at the original, it's not as effective as it would have been if you had just left it alone."

But no, I do think the Alien has lasting power as a franchise, and sometimes you can have too much studio questioning of a director as seemed to be the case with Alien³. But I think Scott is engaged in the Lucas effect here. His reputation is a double edged sword that he's surrounded by yes-men, none of whom would ever have the balls to say "I think this might not be the best idea, Ridley."

For those who were complaining about Neil Blomkamp's Alien film retconning the series, what do you think Scott is doing? Honestly, the franchise is so expansive is convoluted now that I think it would be best to just do away with canon. Have the films be like the Comics, they all tell their own stories in their own universes. Neil even said he didn't want to diminish Alien³ or Resurrection with his film, and yet, Scott wanted to make sure nothing Neil did interfered with his. It seems Scott is intent to keep this franchise to himself, I only hope someone higher at Fox will realize that it may be time to let other creatives have their shots, some who will treat the Xenomorph with the respect it deserves.

While Covenant may have been well crafted from a technical standpoint, what anyone would expect from a Ridley Scott film, it didn't seem to have to passion and respect for the Alien that even the AVP films had. Those knew what they were, they were comic book / video game style movies that added to the mythos, without stepping on the toes of any of the other films.

Covenant takes away from the franchise, making countless expanded universe stories and fan speculations invalid in favor of the worst possible explanation for the origin of the Xenomorph. One so bad, I don't remember any fan thinking of it before Covenant, which is unfortunately, likely exactly why Scott wanted to go for it. The beauty of the Alien is in its simplicity and its mystery, that's where its elegance lies. You turn it into a mutant experiment and you've essentially made Alien go full Resident Evil.

Although I was more receptive to the ideas of Spaiths' script for an Alien Prequel, these films have made me realize that the Alien series should not have prequels. They undermine the most important elements of the Xenomorph and Space Jockey, their mystery. That's the kind of mystery that's good. Mystery that is in the background and serves the plot, not mystery that the plot hinges upon. The mystery that we see in Prometheus and Covenant is just lazy storytelling, lazy screenwriting, and misses the point of Alien. You're going to make Prometheus on the premise of exploring the Engineers, and then go nowhere with it? What? Prometheus is essentially pointless now and Alien Covenant was just one giant detour to pick up David and wonder what he'll do next.

My former film teacher put it nicely: Prometheus was a noble failure, Covenant just fails.

Ok, I gotta stop myself, I'm venting now. so here's the TLDR for anyone who just scrolled to the bottom.

PROS:
-Good production design, cool spaceship, suits, and sets.
-Characters were more human and likable than in Prometheus. Really enjoyed Tennessee.
-Gory and brutal
-Interesting conversations with David, although excessive
-The music was a well done throwback to the original, like Predators had.

CONS:
-No satisfying answers to Prometheus
-Poor character development
-People making even less intelligent decisions than in Prometheus
-Completely screwed up lifecycle.
-Almost no Alien, no practical effects, both times it's dispatched quickly by the crew.
-Obsession with android pseudo-philosophy.
-Leaves us waiting for a sequel, again.
-Ruins the mystery of the Xenomorph
-Most predictable twist ever.
-Like Prometheus, seemingly doesn't know what it wants to be.

WHY?:
-Why did David release the the pathogen on the Engineer city?
-Why were the pathogen's effects on the Engineers different than what we saw in Prometheus?
-Why did David kill Shaw?
-How did David create the Xenomorphs?
-Why did the Juggernaut crash?
-Why do the engineers, an advanced space-faring civilization, only live in one city where giant gates trap them in the courtyard?
-If David creates the Xenomorphs, why were they alluded to in multiple murals in Prometheus?
-Still waiting to know why the Engineers wanted to kill us or what those maps in caves were about.
-David couldn't repair the Juggernaut with all his newfound knowledge of the Engineers?

Final Score: 5/10

AVP3, Alien 5, and The Predator can't come soon enough.

Alan Dean Foster has his work cut out for him.
[close]

Much appreciated and insightful review, although I disagree with many of the negative criticisms here. Hopefully I will have time later to get around to addressing them individually because it is fairly long and thorough.

First thing, a number of your criticisms directed at Covenant are actually faults of Prometheus so they aren't exactly fair to make here. I don't really address those below and I focus on the aspects of Covenant where I disagreed, and a few times where I do agree with you.

Spoiler tag here, mostly because it's a bit long.

Spoiler
Is it unfathomable that someone could die from a hypersleep pod malfunction? It happened too quickly for anyone to save Branson and having him die in front of the crew was more dramatic than finding him already dead. This scene was at least serviceable and not too far fetched.

What's wrong with Tennessee recognizing a John Denver song almost 100 years from now...? That's pure nit pick.

Spore infection: Why would he say he's infected? They figure out pretty quickly that something is wrong and they tried to get him back to the lander asap.

I thought the early scenes of infection and neomorphs were great, much better than expected. The backburster scene in particular was one of the highlights of the film regarding horror. Walter's expression at the end of the grass attack was priceless. Fair enough that you didn't care for it.

Once they head towards the citadel, the crew was taking notice of all the corpses and it was a dark macabre moment. They're just too busy following David to "safety" for them to stop for an examination or something. All of this is slowly building up to Oram's confrontation with David anyway.

The bombing scene was another highlight of the film. It's character building for David and an emotional moment to witness an entire civilization being wiped out. Gates locking them in...? Not really and it wouldn't have mattered anyway. There was no out running what happened. Not to mention adding to the universe with seeing the Juggernaut break the clouds and link up with the docking station (brand new structure), the clinking of the ampules loading upwards and the imagery of them raining down in a double helix, and finally exploding in the air for dispersal. This was a great example of showing how something works without ruining mystery. Thank goodness Ridley knew what he was doing here by insisting it stay in the film.

Rosenthal was technically alone, but she didn't go very far and she was still inside the building. This doesn't seem like a very effective criticism considering the situation. I also liked how there were several shots of Rosenthal's head spinning in the water interspersed between. It was symbolic.

With Oram in the egg room, keep in mind that he had just dispatched a full grown neomorph with his rifle and he was still armed. His actions here were not idiotic, though his curiosity did get the best of him.

The scene with the very first Alien born was brilliantly done. Here we have more character building for David as he attempts to bond with it and new depth added with the Alien's response. It's pretty far out there so I can understand it being controversial or disliked by some. I think it's great we saw something new and deep, and not just the same old "chestburster scurries off to hide and grow."

As for the seemingly faster growth rates occurring in the film, I consider it a relatively minor criticism that the general audience isn't going to face palm over. It just didn't bother me all that much, although I would definitely love to get a longer version of Covenant that not only adds more to the film but also makes the growth rate not seem too quick.

I think Shaw did get a satisfying conclusion (relatively speaking,) which I think a different poster in another thread elaborated on quite well. Perhaps it was Prof. A's thread? The crossing prologue helped here, too.

The David/Walter switch was purposely telegraphed and it worked effectively for me at least. I think we can forgive Daniels for not recognizing this when she helps patch his face, considering they look exactly the same. This was another moment when on the first viewing, we're left wondering if she will notice him and call it out. It's got tension just below the surface.

I do agree with the shower scene being too quick. This could have been much more effective if both deaths were shown in gruesome fashion, rather than cutting away seconds after the first death.

The terraforming bay scene did end with the repetitive flushing out the airlock, however I thought all the shots of the Alien leading up to it were great. Everything from Daniels waking up to finally getting the Alien out did go too fast for my liking though.
[close]

My only real complaint about the CGI would be one or two parts where the CGI blood stood out.

It's definitely not a by-the-numbers standard Alien film. There are some faults, but none of them really stuck out for me and were greatly outweighed by the positives of it all. I absolutely loved Covenant and it sucks that some fans were disappointed or even hate it.

Darth Vile

Darth Vile

#906
Quote from: Engineer on May 23, 2017, 05:40:34 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on May 23, 2017, 05:35:58 PM
The xeno hasn't really been mysterious since Aliens; when it became a franchise based on the character of Ripley.
I beg to differ... the mystery I'm referring to is it's origin. I never wanted to know, but Ridley gave it to us anyway. Same with the space jockey, and it has not done the trick for me...
Same applies... after Alien, none of the other films played on that mystery. It was just a xenomorph... another bug hunt. The mystery only ever really existed in Alien... and even as Scott often states, nobody was really asking who the dude in the chair was...


Quote from: Hudson on May 23, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: Engineer on May 23, 2017, 05:40:34 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on May 23, 2017, 05:35:58 PM
The xeno hasn't really been mysterious since Aliens; when it became a franchise based on the character of Ripley.
I beg to differ... the mystery I'm referring to is it's origin. I never wanted to know, but Ridley gave it to us anyway. Same with the space jockey, and it has not done the trick for me...

They could've made a decent prequel, but they reached too far. The mistake was trying to tie the mythos into an explanation for all of human existence. That's not exactly what I was hungry for when thinking about what the origins of the Xenomorph could be. Instead of getting the origin of the Xenomorph in terms of what their home planet might be like, we got the origin of humanity and a very lazy design that revealed the Space Jockey not to be an interesting type of biomechanoid Giger-alien, but a space suit worn by a plain white bald guy with big muscles.

I think the only thing I'd like to see committed to film is a Giger'esque biomechinoid planet. Visually, that would be interesting... although not guaranteed it would make a film 'better'.

Engineer

Engineer

#907
That was the beauty of it. None of the other films addressed it, but the mystery was still there. Now it's not. Nobody asked about the guy in the chair because most of us never really wanted an answer. He sought out answering the wrong questions. That's just my opinion.

dkwookie

dkwookie

#908
God it kills me to say disappointed. I have loved Alien since seeing it back in the early 80's. It's my favourite film of all time. I really enjoyed Prometheus too. I didn't mind the lack of Xeno since the whole thing had a great Forbidden Planet vibe and I enjoyed the new elements added such as the goo and the Engineer race. David was a fascinating character and I loved the visual and audio experience.
Covenant starts great with a really nice few scenes on the ship and the initial planet exploration. The actors are all great in their roles, especially Billy Crudup and Danny McBride. But things go pear shaped as soon as the first infection occurs. The slow build up (which I loved in Alien and Prometheus) ended abruptly and we were whisked into 2 Alien births and the ship being destroyed.
From then on it went downhill with the entire section in the engineers city with David. It felt muddled and rushed with no real depth into why David did what he did.
The appearance of the Xeno felt like an afterthought tacked on so it could be put on the poster and didn't pose any real threat for me.
The final scenes on the spaceship felt like cut scenes from Alien Isolation, just not as good.
I may need to see it a couple more times and maybe I will grow to like it. I read other reviews wondering how a super Alien fan could not enjoy a new Alien film. Gutted I now know why.
What a cluster fcuk
Edit: Still rate it 4/5 because I cannot bring myself to think it's the film. It's been a really bad day, my fav actor died and my home town was bombed by some psycho. I reckon I watched it it wrong frame of mind

rabidranger

rabidranger

#909
Was just able to see it today. I'd give it a 3.5/5. Highlights:

* Fassbender was great in both roles-in particular David. Perfect sociopath
* Visuals were excellent-in particular the Engineer city and the Covenant ship
* The other characters had some personality and weren't "red shirts." In particular liked Tennessee and Daniels
* I thought the creature designs were a bit uneven but overall very good
* David's "work space" was cool
* Shaw's reveal

My main criticism is the tease and lack of follow-up of the elements from Prometheus. I think the film would have greatly benefited from:

* Implementing the full prologue
* Delving into David's decision to wipe out the Engineers a bit more (I found their response to the presence of the Juggernaut very interesting)
* Touching on the Engineer civilization a bit more
* Spending a bit more time on Shaw


YutaniDitch

YutaniDitch

#910
Quote from: Predaker on May 23, 2017, 09:44:17 PM
Quote from: Predaker on May 22, 2017, 03:48:35 AM
Quote from: RidgeTop on May 21, 2017, 08:31:17 AM
This is going to be ranty, but I attempted to be as fair as I could in my own personal assessment and refrain from bitching. I'm putting it in a spoiler tag to save everyone the wall of text.

I personally give the movie a five out of ten. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about it, and this "you're not a true fan" business is silly. Anyone can be a true fan and like or dislike the film.

Spoiler


Alien: Covenant review, oh boy, here we go...

I'll be really impressed if anyone makes it through all of this.

I just got back from my second viewing, wanted to give it another chance before finalizing my opinion.

These are my opinions, my speculations, and my frustrations, I'm just sharing my thoughts here and I don't expect anyone to agree with me. It is worth seeing, and anyone who is interested in it should make up their own mind. If you liked the movie, great! I wish I could.

Alien: Covenant is a bad film.

Not only is it a bad film, it's a bad Alien Prequel, and it's a bad Prometheus Sequel.

It's my least favorite of them all, out of any of the Alien, Predator, or Alien Vs. Predator movies. I like it less than Prometheus.

It brings me no pleasure to say this or have this opinion, anyone who knows me will know I was excited for this movie and wanted it to be great. However, I knew after Prometheus and from some of the rumors I was hearing that my expectations should be measured, so I made sure to keep them as low as I could for the release of an Alien film. It didn't help. Like Prometheus, I watched it again, hoping it would grow on me. It didn't.

I realize this, coming from someone who defends the Alien Vs. Predator movies, won't be a popular assessment. That's OK, it's mine and I'm just sharing it. I'll get to why I think those films, while not as well crafted, served the franchise/s better and had more passion in them.

I'm going to go through the whole plot here. If you just want to see my pros, cons and overall thoughts, skip to the end.

------------------

We start with an intriguing scene where David awakens and meets his creator, Peter Weyland for the first time. There is an interesting back and forth here between creator and creation, and it's clear that this is the theme the movie is going to be focusing on, along with David himself. The scene ends with Weyland, uncomfortable with David's line of questioning, requesting for tea right next to him as a power play. I suppose this is the beginning of David's daddy issues.

Really this movie should have been called David: Covenant.

Skip ahead 10 years after Prometheus and we're with the Covenant, a colonization ship, on its long journey to the planet Origae 6. The ship, its solar sails extended is impacted by a random neutrino burst. Walter awakens the crew, and James Franco's character, Captian Branson remains in his pod. Something is clearly wrong with his pod and before long the inside of it bursts into flames, killing him. This was the first part of the movie I was a bit confused by. You would think, due to rank, Walter would be awakening him first. The pod did not look particularly damaged, and they don't build these things with emergency releases?

In any case, the religious character, Oram, assumes command and is uneasy with his perceptions of the crew judging him.
I enjoyed the scene with the characters repairing the damaged ship, we get some really good views of the Covenant ship, as well as the impressive, practically built and moebius inspired spacesuits. Also, seeing a scene straight from Alien, where they eject their dead crew-member's body out of an airlock and into space was a bit of a treat.

As they are about to depart they receive a transmission. A ghostly image who is singing. Tennessee recognizes the song. I guess John Denver is still pretty well known a century from now? Walter, the android on the ship with the same look of David, is logical, straightforward, and yet subtly compassionate. I like him as a character.

They track the transmission to its source on a nearby planet, much closer than their terraforming destination. Oram decides they should check it out as it could potentially be a better candidate for their colony. This alone would be a bad reason and I'm glad they decided to throw in the "This is a human transmission and we're obligated to investigate" bit. Daniels, our female main character, calls this out as a bad idea.

After descending through the stormy atmosphere to the planet's surface, a scene that had distant vibes of the dropship descent in Aliens, they land on the edge of a lake and begin their trek. They have no protective suits, or procedure for an initial walk-around.

Even the astronauts in Prometheus were not that stupid.

Yes they mention the atmospheric contents but like any new planet landed on, you would think initial pathogen tests would need to be made. Space truckers were more concerned with decontamination and quarantine.

Eventually they come across the crashed ship that Shaw and David used to escape LV-223. I had to admit, their reaction to coming across a ship of potential Alien origin was pretty subdued. We see spores infecting a couple crew members. One puts his damn face in it, pokes it, and notices it release. He doesn't think to tell anyone he might be infected once he starts showing symptoms, a la Holloway in Prometheus. They find the origin of the signal and realize that Shaw and David were aboard the ship. Once two characters get sick they rush their way back to the lander.

Two people make it back first, one infected, one accompanying him. They get to the lander and Karine begs for Farris' help. They go to the medbay, Faris proceeds to lock them in, afraid of an outbreak (even though it wouldn't matter as her face had just been sprayed with blood). Karine realizes something emerging after... hugging a potentially infected guy? She begs Farris to open the door. Farris, in a panic, leaves again, runs to grab a weapon. The Neomorph emerges, I guess it's called the bloodburster for this one. Immediately Karine kicks it back, it viciously attacks her and tears her face up. Farris proceeds to open the door, slip on the bloody floor and shoot the ceiling, crawl back out the door, breaking her foot upon it closing. The bloodburster, the one that was just kicked into the wall a moment earlier proceeds to BREAK THE GLASS on the bulkhead door. Farris shoots around the room in a panic, hitting some tanks and blowing up the lander.

The other bloodburster emerges from the throat of the other victim. I'm not using their names because these two people have not been established as characters, so I really don't care what is happening to them other than seeing the thrilling gore of it. The Neomorph comes back LITERALLY SECONDS LATER, NEARLY FULLY GROWN. They shoot at the Neomorph as it takes off Walter's hand. David comes in and fires a flare, I guess the Neomorphs don't like light too much as they scurry off.

David leads them to the Engineer "Necropolis," which like with the Juggernaut, the group seems awfully calm about. This looks ripped straight out of Rome, as if it's the Vatican itself. We get some Prometheus vibes here, seeing a temple like interior with large stone heads. David explains his backstory and asks a few questions of his own.

It's here where Daniels talks to Walter and says what really should have been the tagline of the film:

"Nothing here makes any sense."

Most of the second act is here. We get some intriguing conversations between Walter and David. They have a strange flute-playing scene together.

"I'll do the fingering."

At one point they walked into a garden that was Ripped straight from the Arnold Böcklin painting "Isle of the Dead." It's here where David reveals that Shaw is dead and that he loved her. Making up a story about how the Juggernaut accidentally deployed its cargo and in the confusion their ship crashed.

We see a flashback where David drops the ships deadly cargo on the Engineer city. Why? Who knows. Some glances of female engineers. This is their home planet but they all live in one city? Why were there gates confining them to the courtyard? They are an advanced space-faring race with no defenses? Lots of questions here that we've been waiting for since the end of Prometheus five years ago. If you were hoping for any satisfying answers you're out of luck. The black goo instantly mummifies them? I suppose this is another instance of it doing whatever the plot calls for.

Back to the main story, in true horror movie fashion, Rosenthal goes off on her own to "freshen up" in a dark Alien city she knows nothing about... sure. Of course the Neomorph creeps in and bites her head off. Scott apparently wants us to really get this as going forward there are three extended shots of her head floating in the water.

During this whole time the crew of the Covenant ship is trying to re-establish contact with the ground crew. There's some good tension between the three bridge crew Members, with Tennessee wanting to risk the Covenant by flying into the storm.

The acting captian, Oram walks in to find the Neomorph munching on Rosenthal's corpse. David has already arrived here and is apparently trying to gain the Neomorph's trust. It strangely stands up straight and walks over to David. Oram has had enough and kills the Neomorph with his assault rifle. David has an emotional outburst upon this, which should be a pretty big red flag to Oram. Oram demands answers and David proceeds to show him his Frankenstein lair.

It's here where we start to gain the realization that David is the creator of the Xenomorphs. Ughhhh, Why Scott? Why did you do this? No one wanted this but you. Even the most praising reviews have been tepid about this. I'll express more of my thoughts after this plot run through. David leads Oram like a lamb to the slaughter into his egg chamber and tells him to put his face in the egg. Like an idiot Oram does this and gets facehugged. Didn't see that one coming.

Again, literally moments later. the Xenomorph is bursting out, only it's not a chestburster. It's a mini-Alien that mimics David in reaching its hands out. OK, what? We go back to Walter and David, after seeing Shaw's dissected and mutated corpse. So much for any satisfying conclusion for that character from Prometheus. David goes a bit meta here and plays the theme from Prometheus on his flute. Walter has figured David out. It's here was have a strange quasi incestuous, homo-erotic kiss between both of Micheal Fassbender's characters, before David attacks Walter and disables him. We can see Walter's skin repairing itself.

The characters begin their escape of the temple and, another is facehugged for about 5 seconds before it being cut off of his face. The instantly full-grown Xenomorph shows up (eat your heart out Paul W. S. Anderson), kills one of them as the facehugged for 5 seconds other guy runs off. After David gets all creepy and rapey on Daniels, Walter shows back up and we then get a straight out of Mortal Kombat fight between the two androids. The fight cuts away.

Tennessee arrives in the cargo lander. And why again does a ship of over two thousand people only have one shuttle? "Walter" (we know who this really is) follows them out. After that it's the Xenomorph. They climb aboard as the Xenomorph also hops on. Here's that fight from the trailer we all saw. After some cat-and-mouse back and forth between Daniels and the Alien, it's instantly crunched by heavy machinery and released into pieces, in the scene after its birth. Perfect Organism indeed.

I really get the impression Scott wasn't too interested in making an Alien film here.
They make it back to the ship. Some nice shots of the Covenant in the stormy clouds around this bit, reminded me of Event Horizon. Daniels repairs "Walter's" face, (I thought his skin was self repairing?). David really had time to cut his hand off and do his hair just right so that she wouldn't recognize him up close?

After they depart, it becomes evident a Xenomorph is on the ship. I guess five seconds is enough for a facehug to be effective. And again, the Xenomorph is an adult, instantly. The other two crew members apparently thought it would be a good time to have sex in the showers, and here we get our infamous shower scene that we expected from the trailers. I was actually looking forward to this, I was hoping it would be long and disturbing, but it ends up being quick, horror-movie trope fare, which some were initially afraid of but I defended before I ended up seeing.

They lead the Xenomorph into the terraforming bay, trap it in a tractor, and attempt to blow it out of the airlock. It leaps back on the ships platform just in time to be impaled and thrust into space. Again, because we haven't seen that before.

After getting in the hypersleep pods, Daniels realizes this movie's BIG TWIST! David is pretending to be Walter. Why didn't he just play along with her conversation? The twist was ridiculous. A real twist would have been if it really had been Walter, who I ended up liking much more than David in the film. Instead, the movie went and did the ultimate cliche.

In the very weird final scene, David pukes up some tiny facehuggers encased in the same material that the human fetuses were. OK... how?

------------------

When I first walked out of the theater, I was feeling a lot like I did after Prometheus, confusion, denial. Upon reading the reviews of those both defending the film and criticizing it, and thinking upon it myself, like with Prometheus, I was left with immense frustration and disappointment.

This movie wasn't an Alien film.

Now when I criticize Scott here, I do so granting him the respect of a skilled artist and visionary. I can't deny he knows how to direct, and create beautiful scenes. But personally, I don't think any artist, or the work of any artist, is above criticism. The Martian restored some of my faith in Scott as a film maker, but that wasn't his story. It only illustrated well that Scott's strength lies in his visuals, and when he tries to get too involved in a story, it comes across as just random, pseudo-philosophical musings.

More and more I see Alien wasn't his masterpiece. It was a perfect storm of a strong director (who was still new so could only have so much creative control), the story of Dan O' Bannon and Ronald Shusset, (Both of those writers having criticisms of the direction of the franchise, including Prometheus), and the artistry of H.R. Giger and Ron Cobb. Without any of these elements, the symphony that was Alien likely wouldn't have been nearly as effective as it was.

The problem now is that Scott seems to want to be the entire symphony. Although he didn't write Prometheus and Covenant, he was deeply involved in the story and writing process. I really feel he was completely uninterested in listening to the criticisms of Prometheus, only doubling and tripling down on its flaws. I find it hard to believe, despite what Scott says on how he "listened to the fans." If he did he would have known that our problems went well beyond not seeing the Alien.

This film doesn't even grant us that much. I'm willing to bet the Alien has less screen time in this than in the original film. And even when it was not on screen in Alien, it was in the background, lurking. The threat of it was ever present. Our space trucker characters were all known to the audience, they planned, failed, made mistakes, but they were still smart. They acted how people would act. Prometheus and Covenant both threw this out the window.

There were zero creature practical effects that I could see, if there were any, they were too quick to notice. CG and Practical effects are both great tools for filmmakers to use but when you use all CGI for convenience sake, in the installment of a franchise that is known for its outstanding legacy with practical creature effects, you do it a tremendous disservice.

Scott seems intent on making David the center of the Alien universe, and I'm gonna call it now. David will be the Space Jockey.

I have to wonder if Scott is just becoming cynical.

Like Prometheus, this film ended on a semi-cliffhanger, teasing us that we will get our answers in the sequel. But we didn't get any answers to the giant questions left at the end of Prometheus, why should I wait another three to five years for the answers to this that will likely again, only raise questions and answer nothing. It is everything wrong with Hollywood these days. This movie is a corporate product, and we are to keep throwing money at it with the fleeting hope that it may satisfy, eventually.

The immense advertising and marketing campaign for Covenant was entirely dishonest.

I get the feeling Fox forced Scott to make this an Alien film, so he threw an Alien in to hardly be seen. Far more interested in Androids and philosophy, and turning everything we know on its head for the sake of doing so.

Essentially, this film ruins the mystery of the Alien in the same way Prometheus ruined the mystery of the Space Jockey. Scott said in interviews "No one bothered to ask about the man in the chair." OF COURSE WE DID, and everyone had their own answer for it. That was the beauty of the Space Jockey. It was the ultimate mystery of the Alien Universe. It's the same for the Xenomorph itself, the joy and beauty is that we didn't know where they were from or why they existed, they just were, because space is weird. Hence the name "Alien."

Is it really an "Alien" if it's just the result of an insane android? And for those who never liked the idea of Cameron's Aliens as bugs, David LITERALLY USES BUGS TO CREATE THE XENOMORPH.

I'm tempted to just agree with Dan O'Bannon when he said about the Alien subsequent films:

"I'd like to see it stop. A horror movie's a fragile thing, and once you've gotten past the original, it isn't scary anymore. So you do a bunch of sequels to a horror movie, all they do is drain any remaining impact out of the original. All of the sequels to for instance Invasion Of The Bodysnatchers, same thing; they over-expose the ideas, and when you look at the original, it's not as effective as it would have been if you had just left it alone."

But no, I do think the Alien has lasting power as a franchise, and sometimes you can have too much studio questioning of a director as seemed to be the case with Alien³. But I think Scott is engaged in the Lucas effect here. His reputation is a double edged sword that he's surrounded by yes-men, none of whom would ever have the balls to say "I think this might not be the best idea, Ridley."

For those who were complaining about Neil Blomkamp's Alien film retconning the series, what do you think Scott is doing? Honestly, the franchise is so expansive is convoluted now that I think it would be best to just do away with canon. Have the films be like the Comics, they all tell their own stories in their own universes. Neil even said he didn't want to diminish Alien³ or Resurrection with his film, and yet, Scott wanted to make sure nothing Neil did interfered with his. It seems Scott is intent to keep this franchise to himself, I only hope someone higher at Fox will realize that it may be time to let other creatives have their shots, some who will treat the Xenomorph with the respect it deserves.

While Covenant may have been well crafted from a technical standpoint, what anyone would expect from a Ridley Scott film, it didn't seem to have to passion and respect for the Alien that even the AVP films had. Those knew what they were, they were comic book / video game style movies that added to the mythos, without stepping on the toes of any of the other films.

Covenant takes away from the franchise, making countless expanded universe stories and fan speculations invalid in favor of the worst possible explanation for the origin of the Xenomorph. One so bad, I don't remember any fan thinking of it before Covenant, which is unfortunately, likely exactly why Scott wanted to go for it. The beauty of the Alien is in its simplicity and its mystery, that's where its elegance lies. You turn it into a mutant experiment and you've essentially made Alien go full Resident Evil.

Although I was more receptive to the ideas of Spaiths' script for an Alien Prequel, these films have made me realize that the Alien series should not have prequels. They undermine the most important elements of the Xenomorph and Space Jockey, their mystery. That's the kind of mystery that's good. Mystery that is in the background and serves the plot, not mystery that the plot hinges upon. The mystery that we see in Prometheus and Covenant is just lazy storytelling, lazy screenwriting, and misses the point of Alien. You're going to make Prometheus on the premise of exploring the Engineers, and then go nowhere with it? What? Prometheus is essentially pointless now and Alien Covenant was just one giant detour to pick up David and wonder what he'll do next.

My former film teacher put it nicely: Prometheus was a noble failure, Covenant just fails.

Ok, I gotta stop myself, I'm venting now. so here's the TLDR for anyone who just scrolled to the bottom.

PROS:
-Good production design, cool spaceship, suits, and sets.
-Characters were more human and likable than in Prometheus. Really enjoyed Tennessee.
-Gory and brutal
-Interesting conversations with David, although excessive
-The music was a well done throwback to the original, like Predators had.

CONS:
-No satisfying answers to Prometheus
-Poor character development
-People making even less intelligent decisions than in Prometheus
-Completely screwed up lifecycle.
-Almost no Alien, no practical effects, both times it's dispatched quickly by the crew.
-Obsession with android pseudo-philosophy.
-Leaves us waiting for a sequel, again.
-Ruins the mystery of the Xenomorph
-Most predictable twist ever.
-Like Prometheus, seemingly doesn't know what it wants to be.

WHY?:
-Why did David release the the pathogen on the Engineer city?
-Why were the pathogen's effects on the Engineers different than what we saw in Prometheus?
-Why did David kill Shaw?
-How did David create the Xenomorphs?
-Why did the Juggernaut crash?
-Why do the engineers, an advanced space-faring civilization, only live in one city where giant gates trap them in the courtyard?
-If David creates the Xenomorphs, why were they alluded to in multiple murals in Prometheus?
-Still waiting to know why the Engineers wanted to kill us or what those maps in caves were about.
-David couldn't repair the Juggernaut with all his newfound knowledge of the Engineers?

Final Score: 5/10

AVP3, Alien 5, and The Predator can't come soon enough.

Alan Dean Foster has his work cut out for him.
[close]

Much appreciated and insightful review, although I disagree with many of the negative criticisms here. Hopefully I will have time later to get around to addressing them individually because it is fairly long and thorough.

First thing, a number of your criticisms directed at Covenant are actually faults of Prometheus so they aren't exactly fair to make here. I don't really address those below and I focus on the aspects of Covenant where I disagreed, and a few times where I do agree with you.

Spoiler tag here, mostly because it's a bit long.

Spoiler
Is it unfathomable that someone could die from a hypersleep pod malfunction? It happened too quickly for anyone to save Branson and having him die in front of the crew was more dramatic than finding him already dead. This scene was at least serviceable and not too far fetched.

What's wrong with Tennessee recognizing a John Denver song almost 100 years from now...? That's pure nit pick.

Spore infection: Why would he say he's infected? They figure out pretty quickly that something is wrong and they tried to get him back to the lander asap.

I thought the early scenes of infection and neomorphs were great, much better than expected. The backburster scene in particular was one of the highlights of the film regarding horror. Walter's expression at the end of the grass attack was priceless. Fair enough that you didn't care for it.

Once they head towards the citadel, the crew was taking notice of all the corpses and it was a dark macabre moment. They're just too busy following David to "safety" for them to stop for an examination or something. All of this is slowly building up to Oram's confrontation with David anyway.

The bombing scene was another highlight of the film. It's character building for David and an emotional moment to witness an entire civilization being wiped out. Gates locking them in...? Not really and it wouldn't have mattered anyway. There was no out running what happened. Not to mention adding to the universe with seeing the Juggernaut break the clouds and link up with the docking station (brand new structure), the clinking of the ampules loading upwards and the imagery of them raining down in a double helix, and finally exploding in the air for dispersal. This was a great example of showing how something works without ruining mystery. Thank goodness Ridley knew what he was doing here by insisting it stay in the film.

Rosenthal was technically alone, but she didn't go very far and she was still inside the building. This doesn't seem like a very effective criticism considering the situation. I also liked how there were several shots of Rosenthal's head spinning in the water interspersed between. It was symbolic.

With Oram in the egg room, keep in mind that he had just dispatched a full grown neomorph with his rifle and he was still armed. His actions here were not idiotic, though his curiosity did get the best of him.

The scene with the very first Alien born was brilliantly done. Here we have more character building for David as he attempts to bond with it and new depth added with the Alien's response. It's pretty far out there so I can understand it being controversial or disliked by some. I think it's great we saw something new and deep, and not just the same old "chestburster scurries off to hide and grow."

As for the seemingly faster growth rates occurring in the film, I consider it a relatively minor criticism that the general audience isn't going to face palm over. It just didn't bother me all that much, although I would definitely love to get a longer version of Covenant that not only adds more to the film but also makes the growth rate not seem too quick.

I think Shaw did get a satisfying conclusion (relatively speaking,) which I think a different poster in another thread elaborated on quite well. Perhaps it was Prof. A's thread? The crossing prologue helped here, too.

The David/Walter switch was purposely telegraphed and it worked effectively for me at least. I think we can forgive Daniels for not recognizing this when she helps patch his face, considering they look exactly the same. This was another moment when on the first viewing, we're left wondering if she will notice him and call it out. It's got tension just below the surface.

I do agree with the shower scene being too quick. This could have been much more effective if both deaths were shown in gruesome fashion, rather than cutting away seconds after the first death.

The terraforming bay scene did end with the repetitive flushing out the airlock, however I thought all the shots of the Alien leading up to it were great. Everything from Daniels waking up to finally getting the Alien out did go too fast for my liking though.
[close]

My only real complaint about the CGI would be one or two parts where the CGI blood stood out.

It's definitely not a by-the-numbers standard Alien film. There are some faults, but none of them really stuck out for me and were greatly outweighed by the positives of it all. I absolutely loved Covenant and it sucks that some fans were disappointed or even hate it.

Regarding  your Rosenthal theory and the John Denver song :

Rosenthal was far enough for NOBODY to hear her scream and Shaw was not American, so singing a country song from 100 years earlier is not nitpicking, it is a plot device to identify her as human, since the hologram is a visual mess... This movie is full of plot devices like that Walter gibberish of Tennessee being able to intercept that transmission because he was away from the ship's comm buffers... That explanation sounded forced as hell when they could have just intercepted it... such contrived scene for something so easy to do... Also, David's ludicrous final log stating the log would reach the WY network in 1 year clearly contradicts the fact that Ash was communicating with the Network in far less time than that, mere hours if not less... And this is just 18 years before ALIEN...

Regarding Oram: Oram had Just threatened David mere minutes before asking David if it was safe to be around the eggs... So yes, this scene is ridiculously incoherent...

And do not mention scenes that were not in the movie because as far as any person who watched the movie and did not see the crossing scenes, they know nothing about it just from watching the movie... Same with the character development of the last supper scenes... Scenes that were not in the movie are not part of it... they should have been there in the first place, which shows how neutered this movie was to skip such vital scenes...

The chestburster Groot cuty scene is preposterous and a slap in the face of fans, no matter how you slice it... Xenos are not cute, they cannot be taught tricks... The neomorph whispered scene was another POS scene that ridicules the feral nature of it...

This movie is virtually unrewatchable with so many head scratching moments, including my fave, grunge David with long hair but no beard... 😂💩

There was more you said that was very debatable, but I am tired... Will continue later... Cheers

genocyber

genocyber

#911
I feel like Ridley Scott never understood the appeal of Alien to begin with. He should just call the next movie he makes David, because that's the only character who ever really mattered in these movies.

Predaker

Predaker

#912
QuoteAnd do not mention scenes that were not in the movie because as far as any person who watched the movie and did not see the crossing scenes, they know nothing about it just from watching the movie...

I can mention them if I want. I've seen them and pretty much any other fan following closely would have seen it too. It goes without saying it's not in the final cut but it still exists as the prologue to Covenant, and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up on disc as well. The average movie goer who wouldn't even know Prometheus is an Alien film sure isn't going to care or remember much (if anything) about Shaw.

DaddyYautja

DaddyYautja

#913
my review:

What an uneventful film.

The film was pretty much David messing with aliens and wanting to kill humanity and then catching a ride. That's it. None of the other characters mattered at all.

From the start till when David finally shows up it stuff seen in alien movies already. This series of beats played out in the last movie. Why was it redone again for this one? Is there really no new way to tell an Alien story? Does it have to be some space crew landing in some strange planet, finding some alien things, getting infected, and then running around?

For me the movie began when they finally got to continuing the Prom stuff, which was like a total of five minutes.

Walter seems to exist for the sole purpose of having that conversation about robots being better than humans and that's it.  Oh and the last bit. But there could've been a thousand different ways to get to that.

The chick was super tough, the space elevator ship scene was nice, but there was little development there. She just picks up a gun and goes. That thing that she was supposed to have to Walter would've been interesting if they bother to actually develop it. We just got one conversation and that apparently was enough. if it wasnt for David mentioning it that conversation would mean little.

These movies are getting worst. And sorry, but being nicely shot does not excuse the non-story we have in this film.

I mean, was there any explanation why that city had no tech? Why is David stuck there? Did i miss it? I mean, i was tuned out for the first bit because i've seen that stuff too many times. The events of this movie seem to be setup just to happen in the way that the people writing them wanted them to happen rather than being an actual developing story.

Seriously, did i miss something cause i just tuned out?

As a fan of the series this was, like i said above, David catching a ride and doing some experiments. Everything else was just there tacking space. And being a sequel, this film should not have been build as some sort of entry point for new viewers.

Salt The Fries

Salt The Fries

#914
Quote from: genocyber on May 24, 2017, 02:51:50 AM
I feel like Ridley Scott never understood the appeal of Alien to begin with. He should just call the next movie he makes David, because that's the only character who ever really mattered in these movies.

There was no point in recreating Alien or any of its or other films' approaches. And there's no point in clinging to the past, either. It's so easy to trivialize this film if it doesn't tick fanboy boxes :/

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