Really feels like Ridley Scott just rebooted the series

[Marcus9000]

I liked Prometheus and while not perfect it was ambitious and a bit different.

Alien Covenant looks like it is going down a slightly different route but still retains elements of Prometheus.

We can't make the filmmakers change what we will see in May, so, let's just enjoy it!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[oberonqa]

There are also those like me who loved the themes of Prometheus, were actually happy when they heard it wasn't going to be a full on Alien movie but something different, but once they saw the movie were very disappointed. So yeah I'm a Prom hater but not because it wasn't an Alien movie, just because I thought it was a stupid movie.

And

Spoiler

how come some people are so convinced the end of the Engineers that we see in the Covenant clips means the disappearance of them from all future story lines? They did create humans and the means to destroy us too, that's a tale you could spin in so many directions, while having just David trying to finish the job for another few movies seems unlikely to me.

[close]

This is my feelings on the matter as well.  I was disappointed in Prometheus because it was a stupid movie that had some creative marketing, stellar cinematography, and a stunning performance by Micheal Fassbender. 

The fact it wasn't an Alien movie didn't bug me (though take a look at a lot of reviews and opinions and this does get mentioned frequently due to Ridley's coy answers and some really direct trailers).

Edit:  At the end of the day, we are getting an Alien movie with bits of Prometheus in it rather than another Prometheus movie with bits of Alien in it because the goal of a movie is to make money.  Prometheus failed to deliver and this is the end result of that failure.  If we want to continue seeing the franchise grow, we need to acknowledge that simple truth and move on.  They tried something... it didn't work.  End of story.

[Predaker]

There are also those like me who loved the themes of Prometheus, were actually happy when they heard it wasn't going to be a full on Alien movie but something different, but once they saw the movie were very disappointed. So yeah I'm a Prom hater but not because it wasn't an Alien movie, just because I thought it was a stupid movie.

And

Spoiler

how come some people are so convinced the end of the Engineers that we see in the Covenant clips means the disappearance of them from all future story lines? They did create humans and the means to destroy us too, that's a tale you could spin in so many directions, while having just David trying to finish the job for another few movies seems unlikely to me.

[close]

This is my feelings on the matter as well.  I was disappointed in Prometheus because it was a stupid movie that had some creative marketing, stellar cinematography, and a stunning performance by Micheal Fassbender. 

The fact it wasn't an Alien movie didn't bug me (though take a look at a lot of reviews and opinions and this does get mentioned frequently due to Ridley's coy answers and some really direct trailers).

Edit:  At the end of the day, we are getting an Alien movie with bits of Prometheus in it rather than another Prometheus movie with bits of Alien in it because the goal of a movie is to make money.  Prometheus failed to deliver and this is the end result of that failure.  If we want to continue seeing the franchise grow, we need to acknowledge that simple truth and move on.  They tried something... it didn't work.  End of story.

I agree with that too. Love Fassbender! 

As for the engineers...

Spoiler

I'm still a bit surprised their only part in this film is basically being eradicated from their homeworld. That really speaks volumes as to their future involvement. They ultimately had zero dialogue in the final cut of Prometheus and now we have this. It goes beyond just putting them on the back burner for now - they're totally gone. I really don't expect there will be any more living engineers after this and if there are, it will almost definitely not be more than one or maybe two of the very last ones alive. Anything more than that and we'll have a repeat of what is already going to happen in Covenant - a brief glimpse of a group of them dying en masse.

[close]

[SpeedyMaxx]

If we want to continue seeing the franchise grow, we need to acknowledge that simple truth and move on.  They tried something... it didn't work.  End of story.

I know exactly why AC is being made and is doing the things it does. It is a business calculation, and probably a wise one. But creatively I'm not seeing how increasingly direct prequels with more aliens and evil androids grow the franchise. I feel it descends into regressive fan service. YMMV, but that is my take.

Point is, there is not and has never been any reason for me to double-back or newly justify on my feelings re: Prometheus vs. AC. My feelings remain consistent; I have always felt the film was flawed but a major step in a promising new direction. This is the opposite IMO.

[fiveways]

There are also those like me who loved the themes of Prometheus, were actually happy when they heard it wasn't going to be a full on Alien movie but something different, but once they saw the movie were very disappointed. So yeah I'm a Prom hater but not because it wasn't an Alien movie, just because I thought it was a stupid movie.

And

Spoiler

how come some people are so convinced the end of the Engineers that we see in the Covenant clips means the disappearance of them from all future story lines? They did create humans and the means to destroy us too, that's a tale you could spin in so many directions, while having just David trying to finish the job for another few movies seems unlikely to me.

[close]

This is my feelings on the matter as well.  I was disappointed in Prometheus because it was a stupid movie that had some creative marketing, stellar cinematography, and a stunning performance by Micheal Fassbender. 

The fact it wasn't an Alien movie didn't bug me (though take a look at a lot of reviews and opinions and this does get mentioned frequently due to Ridley's coy answers and some really direct trailers).

Edit:  At the end of the day, we are getting an Alien movie with bits of Prometheus in it rather than another Prometheus movie with bits of Alien in it because the goal of a movie is to make money.  Prometheus failed to deliver and this is the end result of that failure.  If we want to continue seeing the franchise grow, we need to acknowledge that simple truth and move on.  They tried something... it didn't work.  End of story.

Prometheus made money.  Undeniably made money.  Even if they spent double the budget on advertising (bringing the budget to $260m USD) it still made $143m at the box office (maybe more if adjusted for Tax credits/cuts and all that sort of thing) 

I think Alien Covenant will make about the same.  I actually know less people interested in this movie than were interested in Prometheus.  Lots less.  The entire group I went to the midnight showing of Prometheus with (all of which enjoyed it more than I did as they overlooked the editing issues) have zero interest in this film.  Most of them have already dismissed it as "just another slasher flick". 

I see this chapter as loosing fans and gaining fans.  I'm not even sure I'm all that interested in it as I can't argue that so far, it just looks like a slasher movie in space.

[motherfather]

People can switch groups though. I remember initially being fairly bouyant about Prometheus;

a) Because I was caught up in the general excitement
b) Because I was happy to see ANY alien movie after such a very long drought.

But then, the more I reflected on the movie as a whole, the loopholes, illogical character dialog, pacing, coupled with not even feeling the need to rewatch the DVD that much compared to Alien, I downgraded my opinion of Prometheus.

If Prometheus had been executed correctly, I would probably be more willing to embrace a reboot. As Prometheus currently stands, in the state that it is, I cannot accept the engineers in prometheus and alien are the same. In my mind, they are not even DNA adjacent to eachother.

[oberonqa]

If we want to continue seeing the franchise grow, we need to acknowledge that simple truth and move on.  They tried something... it didn't work.  End of story.

Point is, there is not and has never been any reason for me to double-back or newly justify on my feelings re: Prometheus vs. AC. My feelings remain consistent; I have always felt the film was flawed but a major step in a promising new direction. This is the opposite IMO.

Well then I would say my comments were not directed at you then.  They are directed at the people who hated on Prometheus when it came out for whatever reason and are now claiming to love/appreciate/like the movie because they want to be a part of the Cool Kids Club. 

Those are the people I was commenting on and I applaud your steadfastness in keeping the same opinion rather than being a mindless sheep. 

[fiveways]

People can switch groups though. I remember initially being fairly bouyant about Prometheus;

a) Because I was caught up in the general excitement
b) Because I was happy to see ANY alien movie after such a very long drought.

But then, the more I reflected on the movie as a whole, the loopholes, illogical character dialog, coupled with not even feeling the need to rewatch the DVD that much compared to Alien, I downgraded my opinion of Prometheus.

Group you can't switch though is people not super into gore.  Prometheus isn't a very gory film, this movie looks to be the goriest of the series with ease.  Gore might draw a new crowd, but is it gonna be the same number of people they lose? 

We'll find out in 2 weeks I guess when the box office results from the early release territories start coming in.

I'm also in the "Well, compared to this Prometheus might not be that bad group."  Proemtheus wasn't great, but it was filled with interesting images and ideas.  Soon as the first Covenant trailer came out i was like "maybe I didn't want another straight up Alien movie".  I still don't know if I want a straight by the numbers Alien movie with with the overused modern theme of Android gone while.  Part of me actually wishes David wasn't in this at all as I am just not interested in his character.

[oberonqa]

There are also those like me who loved the themes of Prometheus, were actually happy when they heard it wasn't going to be a full on Alien movie but something different, but once they saw the movie were very disappointed. So yeah I'm a Prom hater but not because it wasn't an Alien movie, just because I thought it was a stupid movie.

And

Spoiler

how come some people are so convinced the end of the Engineers that we see in the Covenant clips means the disappearance of them from all future story lines? They did create humans and the means to destroy us too, that's a tale you could spin in so many directions, while having just David trying to finish the job for another few movies seems unlikely to me.

[close]

This is my feelings on the matter as well.  I was disappointed in Prometheus because it was a stupid movie that had some creative marketing, stellar cinematography, and a stunning performance by Micheal Fassbender. 

The fact it wasn't an Alien movie didn't bug me (though take a look at a lot of reviews and opinions and this does get mentioned frequently due to Ridley's coy answers and some really direct trailers).

Edit:  At the end of the day, we are getting an Alien movie with bits of Prometheus in it rather than another Prometheus movie with bits of Alien in it because the goal of a movie is to make money.  Prometheus failed to deliver and this is the end result of that failure.  If we want to continue seeing the franchise grow, we need to acknowledge that simple truth and move on.  They tried something... it didn't work.  End of story.

Prometheus made money.  Undeniably made money.  Even if they spent double the budget on advertising (bringing the budget to $260m USD) it still made $143m at the box office (maybe more if adjusted for Tax credits/cuts and all that sort of thing) 

I think Alien Covenant will make about the same.  I actually know less people interested in this movie than were interested in Prometheus.  Lots less.  The entire group I went to the midnight showing of Prometheus with (all of which enjoyed it more than I did as they overlooked the editing issues) have zero interest in this film.  Most of them have already dismissed it as "just another slasher flick". 

I see this chapter as loosing fans and gaining fans.  I'm not even sure I'm all that interested in it as I can't argue that so far, it just looks like a slasher movie in space.

No one ever said it didn't make money.  I said it was viewed as "modestly profitable" because that is what it was.  142M profit on a 260M budget is not wildly profitable and most certainly not what Fox was projecting Ridley's first science fiction movie since Blade Runner to take in.

That being said, the fact that it made 142M is likely the main reason Fox greenlit Covenant in the first place.  There is clearly money to be made and Fox (and Ridley) feel that taking another crack at revitalizing the franchise is a worthwhile endeavor.  I'm pretty sure if Covenant does not bring in at least double it's budget, the chances of seeing more movies will drop dramatically. 

[GrimmVision]

I don't really feel that way. Alien is TCF's "Star Wars" now. The Alien Bible seems to indicate a continued nurturing of this franchise. Even if Covenant maybe does less than they hope for, they'll continue making them. I doubt Covenant will flop, though. They're still making Predator films and those seem to be marginally less marketable than Alien.

[Abishai100]

Actually, I think what Ridley is doing is really adding some nice background dimension regarding the progressive experience of the malicious Xenos in the known universe. Before, the aliens just showed up or were menacingly around, but Scott's newest two films offer us nice metaphysics (e.g., "Do the Xenos focus on humanity/Earth or did they evolve to strike at random sentient beings on a crusade for social prestige?").

Here's a cool drawing I found of Ellen Ripley.

[oberonqa]

I don't really feel that way. Alien is TCF's "Star Wars" now. The Alien Bible seems to indicate a continued nurturing of this franchise. Even if Covenant maybe does less than they hope for, they'll continue making them. I doubt Covenant will flop, though. They're still making Predator films and those seem to be marginally less marketable than Alien.

Well obviously they are going to want to plan for the best case scenario, but do you really think they are going to invest in the franchise if they don't see a return on said investment.  Remember that little movie called AVPR?  The Strauss brothers had planned on making another movie after AVPR that, if memory serves, was going to be set in the time of Aliens and was going to involve the Colonial Marines on another planet.  They said that after AVPR, there wasn't much point in doing more movies set on Earth and that the future of the AVP franchise was going to be off-world. 

So what ever happened to that planned movie?  Oh that's right... AVPR tanked and Fox pulled the plug on AVP3. 

Movies these days cost a lot of money and any movie that doesn't at least earn double it's budget is considered a modestly successful film... which is a polite way of saying it wasn't a waste of time and resources to make it.  A movie that doesn't even earn back it's initial budget, like AVPR, is considered a failure.  What's the difference between a modestly successful film and a failure?  Look no further than Covenant.  We are getting Covenant because Prometheus was modestly successful.  We'll never get the Strauss brother's version of AVP3 because AVPR was a failure (not that anyone is complaining about this... but they were correct in their assessment that there was no point in doing more AVP movies set on Earth). 

A modestly successful movie is a movie that the studios can look at and see that there were problems, but the movie was clearly on the right track and resonated with moviegoers enough to make a profit of some kind and are therefore able to be successfully pitched on future movie ideas.  A failure is a movie that the studios know was a dud... dead on arrival.  The moviegoers voted with their pocketbooks as loudly as the critics voted with their words and any franchise that has a failure is consigned to direct to video hell... and that's a best case scenario.  Batman and Robin was a failure and it took 10 years and what was likely a very convincing sales pitch by Nolan to get Warner Bros to take Batman out of purgatory (I'd love to have been a fly on the wall during THAT meeting!).

Obviously no one plans for a movie to be a failure.  No studio invests in movies anymore without planning on that movie to be successful.  And since the business side of things dictates that every idea under the sun be developed into a franchise, that means studios are always looking for the next big franchise.  The presence of an Alien Bible and Ridley's plan for <x> number of films is simply them planning on Covenant being successful.  If it pulls an AVPR and tanks at the box office... or is modestly successful like Prometheus, that puts the long-term viability of the franchise into question.  A modestly successful Covenant will lead to studio execs wondering if the public is suffering from "Alien-exhaustion"... too many Alien-like movies in the last couple of years.  Or maybe they'll wonder if the franchise is simply a dead horse and can never recapture the glory days of old.  Heck.... maybe they'll even wonder if Ridley is capable of making a blockbuster Alien film like he did in the old days. 

These are all questions that no one wants those studio execs asking.  We all should want Covenant to be as successful as possible... even if you don't like the direction Ridley is taking the franchise at the moment.  Ever want to see Blomkamp's Aliens 3.2?  Or how about a proper sequel to Alien Resurrection?  Maybe something new with a cast of unknowns in a movie adaptation of one of the Dark Horse comics?  So many possibilities for the future.... and all of it depends on studio execs and their faith in the franchise.  Faith that is so easily shaken on nothing more than the fickle nature of box office take... 

Sorry for the long post... had a lot to say.  **lol**

[windebieste]

We all should want Covenant to be as successful as possible... even if you don't like the direction Ridley is taking the franchise at the moment.  Ever want to see Blomkamp's Aliens 3.2?  Or how about a proper sequel to Alien Resurrection?  Maybe something new with a cast of unknowns in a movie adaptation of one of the Dark Horse comics?  So many possibilities for the future.... and all of it depends on studio execs and their faith in the franchise.  Faith that is so easily shaken on nothing more than the fickle nature of box office take... 

Probably the most important thing anyone has said about this new movie.  Ever.

Like it or not.  'ALIEN: Covenant' is the lynch pin for this property's future right now. 

-Windebieste.

[motherfather]

I think the problem with adding backstory to the jockey, engineers and xenos is...

If not executed delicately and sensitively, it effectively eradicates a major dramatic device - the unknown. You know - whats in the dark corner, lurking in shadows, or underneath the bed at night. If you demystify things too much,  over explain too much, there's a danger in that. Of course Hollywood has always been criticised for the opposite, but its a danger nonetheless.