Really feels like Ridley Scott just rebooted the series

[Predaker]

I was actually hoping Covenant was going to give us a peak into who the Spacejockeys/Engineers were and what was going on with them and our relation to them, etc. This seemed like the concept with the whole Alien universe that wasn't touched on in any of the Alien or subsequent films and was some really new territory and concepts.

Now peoples true colors are starting to show.

I know right?  I love seeing people talking about their desire to see a movie that explores deep themes and asks big questions and how disappointing it is that AC isnt delivering this.  It's like the collective memory of the hive mind has forgotten that is exactly what Prometheus gave us and was criticized because of those very things (and other reasons like poorly written characters, so-called lame interpretation of the ancient astronaut theory, etc) when all people wanted was an Alien film done by Ridley Scott.

So here we are getting an Alien movie directed by Ridley Scott that isnt teasing us with things like "maybe it is... maybe it isn't" or "it has the DNA of Alien in it...".  And all people do in response is complain about how AC isn't asking bigger questions or exploring deeper themes and instead is just another Alien movie.

I can't be the only one to find this state of affairs comical....

Wait what? These are two completely different groups. One group liked what Prometheus did: exploring deep themes and asking big questions. The other group wanted a more simple Alien movie.

The group of people that liked what Prometheus did (including me), are the ones that are ''complaining'', as you put it. Which is justified, in my opinion. I mean, Alien: Covenant isn't just another Alien movie, but it's certainly not as interesting as Prometheus and the ideas it explored.

I'll still enjoy it, but I do think it could have been much more.

That's what Prometheus is for, though. We just got that in the last film.

[BishopShouldGo]

Where in the rule book does it state you can only do that once?

[Ragonk_Force]

Im sure Ridley Scott is going to lose sleep because some of you arent getting the movie you envisioned. Some of us, however, will leave it to the pros and enjoy their vision

[chris_bert]

That's what Prometheus is for, though. We just got that in the last film.
[/quote]

I don't think the film, Prometheus, fully answered the question that it ended with...who were the Spacejockey/Engineers, why did they create us, why might they have wanted to later destroy us, and then what happened that they changed their minds (was it just the outbreak of the accelerant on LV-223 that stopped them destroying us)? As an aside, why did the last surviving Spacejockey/Engineer on LV-223 want to then continue the original mission from 2,000 years ago after Weyland asked for more life and that he compared himself to the Spacejockey/Engineer as both being "gods." I don't think we got the answer to most of these questions when Prometheus ended and so Shaw and David's journey to the Engineer's homeworld was where this was going to pick up, which I was really excited about. So I'm left a little unsatisfied by not getting the questions asked in Prometheus answered in the Covenant film.

As an aside, I may have misunderstood what Riddles was talking about when he mentioned "their origin"...I thought he was going to explain our origin as "humans" to the "Spacejockeys." I always assumed the derelict in the 1979 Alien/Nostromo film was carrying the eggs as cargo and therefore the huge pilot in the Alien/Nostromo derelict produced these eggs and was transporting them somewhere when it crashed. I was never confused about who created the xenos because I assumed they were only spawned from the eggs we saw in the 1979 Alien/Nostromo film and came from a species on the same planet that the derelict jockey in the Alien/Nostromo film. It was just a dangerous species that lived on the same planet as the Spacejockey/Engineer. I wasn't asking back then if that Spacejockey/Engineer created the xeno? It didn't occur to me to ask this question. I was more focused on everything in that film that had to do with the eggs and jockey being so incredibly foreign. For instance, the ship was piloted by a huge alien in some type of interface chair...no steering wheel, no petals, no buttons, relays, switches, etc. That was an amazingly foreign concept for me with the film and so I just assumed the eggs there on that derelict ship were from the same world as the pilot. The mystery for me then was who this pilot was, not the eggs or the xenos. They seemed to be designed for one thing. There was no mystery to me what would happen in you came in contact with an egg like Kane did in the Alien/Nostromo film. The outcome was bad and it was deadly. Same thing for the xeno. You cannot reason with it or bribe it with money not to kill you. It seemed to be designed for one thing. There was no mystery about that.

With the Prometheus film indicating that this same Spacejockey/Engineer race actually created mankind, etc., etc., I was very intrigued. But now with Covenant, this intrigue kind of ends abruptly with no more answers to the questions about our relationship to the Spacejockey/Engineers. Or at least that is how I am interpreting things from the footage from the Covenant film that's been made available.

The Prometheus film was breathtaking stunning in my opinion...the graphics, landing sequences, etc. could have been works of art (at least for my personal taste). I had trouble with some of the characters in the film and following some of the logic, but I didn't expect to see an alien/xeno in the Prometheus film because Riddles indicated that had been done already (I'll have to search through the interviews to see if I can reference the correct one; I've slept since then so can't recall it specifically). Everything intriguing for me at least in the Prometheus film was mankind's relationship to the Spacejockey/Engineer. I think the trilobite and deacon were there for those film fans who wanted to see something similar to the xeno/alien, but my interest was on the origin of the Spacejockey/Engineer and mankind's relationship with this race.

Again, grateful to Riddles as a director and grateful for another Alien film, but I'm hoping before all the films are done and finished, we get an answer as to why the Engineers wanted to wipe us out. For some reason, it's a profound question that I would love to have answered.

[rabidranger]

Well, the Engineer in Prometheus never got around to answering Shaw's question "Why do you hate us"? He was too busy ripping off heads and kicking the tires and lighting the fires. I assumed Scott would follow up on this but it might not be with as much exposition as we would like.

[Predaker]

I think it would have been a mistake for this new film to be centered around fixing the myriad issues surrounding Prometheus but I didn't expect it to

Spoiler

completely ditch the engineers.

[close]

It's very refreshing to see Alien: Covenant moving away from all the things that Prometheus could have bogged it down with.

[oberonqa]

Where in the rule book does it state you can only do that once?

Nothing says you can only do it once... if your first time around is a successful venture, which Prometheus certainty wasn't.  The vast majority of people who went into theaters to watch Prometheus ended up leaving confused and disappointed.  You can look at any review, either professional or just viewer opinion to see that. 

While it is true that some people enjoyed Prometheus, it is also true that this group is the minority.  We are lucky as hell to be getting another movie at all considering the box office performance of Prometheus. 

It is obvious that Ridley is trying to cater to as wide an audience as possible while not sacrificing his vision.  Which means he is listening to the vocal majority who were disappointed and confused by Prometheus.  Any hope of getting a direct followup to that film died when the movie failed to be more than just "modestly profitable".  If it had been a runaway success, we would be getting a very different movie next month.

Perhaps the white knights should have spent more time defending the movie against the masses that wanted to hunt down Lindeloff and cut his heart out and selling the positives of the movie rather than remaining silent.  Maybe things would have been different...

[GrimmVision]

I still don't think it's Scott's intention to ditch the Engineers and the mythos surrounding them as these films progress. Rather, I honestly think Scott wanted to keep TCF's eyes narrowed in on his own Alien films because of what it was Blomkamp was offering with an Alien 3.2, so Scott added the beast into the story that he set out to tell with Prometheus. But the Alien isn't the inherent reason for these films, they just happen to be another aspect of a larger scale story about creation, destruction, artificiality vs. reality, and the origins of man and showing that maybe we aren't this huge focal point we think we are.

Essentially, he's continuing his 'Prometheus' narrative under the guise and popularity of the 'ALIEN' title.

[echobbase79]

Now peoples true colors are starting to show.

I know right?  I love seeing people talking about their desire to see a movie that explores deep themes and asks big questions and how disappointing it is that AC isnt delivering this.  It's like the collective memory of the hive mind has forgotten that is exactly what Prometheus gave us and was criticized because of those very things (and other reasons like poorly written characters, so-called lame interpretation of the ancient astronaut theory, etc) when all people wanted was an Alien film done by Ridley Scott.

So here we are getting an Alien movie directed by Ridley Scott that isnt teasing us with things like "maybe it is... maybe it isn't" or "it has the DNA of Alien in it...".  And all people do in response is complain about how AC isn't asking bigger questions or exploring deeper themes and instead is just another Alien movie.

I can't be the only one to find this state of affairs comical....

Wait what? These are two completely different groups. One group liked what Prometheus did: exploring deep themes and asking big questions. The other group wanted a more simple Alien movie.

The group of people that liked what Prometheus did (including me), are the ones that are ''complaining'', as you put it. Which is justified, in my opinion. I mean, Alien: Covenant isn't just another Alien movie, but it's certainly not as interesting as Prometheus and the ideas it explored.

I'll still enjoy it, but I do think it could have been much more.

I'm "hoping" all the material with David and Walter will elevate Covenant from just being another Alien movie. But at the end of the day it's still another Alien movie. Which isn't a bad thing if the movie turns out to be good. At least the Aliens do feel like a threat again.

[TheBATMAN]

I think whatever the outcome, Covenant will at least make Prometheus feel a better and more watchable film, knowing what comes afterwards.

[GrimmVision]

I think whatever the outcome, Covenant will at least make Prometheus feel a better and more watchable film, knowing what comes afterwards.

I heavily agree.

[Predaker]

I still don't think it's Scott's intention to ditch the Engineers

Spoiler

That's certainly what happens with this direct sequel though and there won't be another film for a good few years, at the very least. In the unlikely event that it totally bombs, there's even less incentive to continue. If it outperforms Prometheus while simultaneously doing away with the engineers then I don't know why they would then circle back.

I think Ridley still wants to explore bigger themes and weave in mythology as he goes, while not having to be anchored to the engineers and stuck wasting time to fix the mistakes of Prometheus.

[close]

[SpeedyMaxx]

Now peoples true colors are starting to show.

I know right?  I love seeing people talking about their desire to see a movie that explores deep themes and asks big questions and how disappointing it is that AC isnt delivering this.  It's like the collective memory of the hive mind has forgotten that is exactly what Prometheus gave us and was criticized because of those very things (and other reasons like poorly written characters, so-called lame interpretation of the ancient astronaut theory, etc) when all people wanted was an Alien film done by Ridley Scott.

Speak for yourself, dude. I liked Prometheus doing those things. I have nothing to reconcile.

[BishopShouldGo]

I think with the Weyland dream sequence, the citadel scene, the presence of David, and John Logan saying that Ridley loved that he wrote complex scenes, we should be in for something intelligent actually.

It definitely messes with the ambition and thrilling knobs though, turning down the former and turning up the latter.

[ReluctantNerd]

There are also those like me who loved the themes of Prometheus, were actually happy when they heard it wasn't going to be a full on Alien movie but something different, but once they saw the movie were very disappointed. So yeah I'm a Prom hater but not because it wasn't an Alien movie, just because I thought it was a stupid movie.

And

Spoiler

how come some people are so convinced the end of the Engineers that we see in the Covenant clips means the disappearance of them from all future story lines? They did create humans and the means to destroy us too, that's a tale you could spin in so many directions, while having just David trying to finish the job for another few movies seems unlikely to me.

[close]