Did the Derelict Ship survive the blast?

[Xenomrph]

You were saying the focus doesn't exist within AR because of why it was written.

And now I've reframed it in a way you should be able to understand.

I think the reason it wasn't directly addressed in Aliens was to leave it open for a sequel, in the end A3 didn't use it and then AR had to imply it was destroyed to lend credibility to it's plot.

AR had to imply it was destroyed to make Ripley's sacrifice actually count for something.

I tend to disagree, it potentially scales up her sacrifice for sure, or does it count for more if she did it knowing that she was taking out one queen rather than the whole race? Why does her sacrifice need to count for anything?

I personally think it's meaningful enough that she had to choose to kill herself rather than risk trusting Bishop 2, to turn down the option of having a life. Her stated belief was that one queen would end up killing everything, it didn't need to be the last Alien in the galaxy to make her jump and to make the sacrifice worthwhile.

Exactly.

In the novelisation she adds to this something along the lines off also nuking the region where the derelict is located.

So she wanted to further be sure in the novelisation.

That's pretty neat, thanks for the info. Interestingly enough, that bit isn't in the script, it looks like ADF added it himself.

[Corporal Hicks]

It was A.C Crispin who wrote the Resurrection novelization. 

[SiL]

And now I've reframed it in a way you should be able to understand.

No, you haven't. Saying that Resurrection doesn't make a point of her sacrifice because of why it was written isn't like any of your examples. It's more akin to saying you can't say Alien really has any rape themes in it because it was written to get O'Bannon off the couch.

It was A.C Crispin who wrote the Resurrection novelization. 

Aliens, not AR.

[Corporal Hicks]

It was A.C Crispin who wrote the Resurrection novelization. 

Aliens, not AR.

[SiL]

It doesn't matter, though: ADF only wrote it for the money so it's not really an adaptation of the movie.

[Local Trouble]

And now I've reframed it in a way you should be able to understand.

No, you haven't. Saying that Resurrection doesn't make a point of her sacrifice because of why it was written isn't like any of your examples. It's more akin to saying you can't say Alien really has any rape themes in it because it was written to get O'Bannon off the couch.

I think you two are having another battle. 

[Xenomrph]

And now I've reframed it in a way you should be able to understand.

No, you haven't. Saying that Resurrection doesn't make a point of her sacrifice because of why it was written isn't like any of your examples. It's more akin to saying you can't say Alien really has any rape themes in it because it was written to get O'Bannon off the couch.

No, I did, I'll quote it for you:

I, on the other hand, choose to judge Alien Resurrection because I feel it gives undue weight to Ripley as a character, and that leads to a bunch of narrative constraints to make the plot work.

I don't need to use meta-commentary stuff to show what my opinion is. Any other questions?

Also I didn't say Resurrection doesn't make a point of her sacrifice, I said that that point was made because of narrative constraints placed on Whedon when the studio told him to make the movie about Ripley. Had Ripley not been required, the emphasis wouldn't have been put on her "sacrifice" (just like in the bulk of the EU) because, as you pointed out, the plot makes less sense if they had other, easier options to get Aliens and still bent over backwards to clone Ripley.

My earlier point was that you can trace that plot point (the return of Ripley) back to a singular external cause (the studio demanding Ripley's return), and it had repercussions on the overall narrative (emphasis on her sacrifice at the expense of other things, including diminishing the overall Alien threat to being solely related to, and solved by, Ripley). You can take out that middle part (the studio's demands) and just look at the plot point and it's effect, and my opinion is still the same. I just noted the meta-commentary part because I feel it's noteworthy - it's a part of the creative process for better or for worse.

I will say that your unwillingness/inability to recognize the effect meta-commentary has on the artistic process and on people's perceptions of said art is kind of incredible though, but it's probably a discussion best had in a dedicated thread for it because it's not just specific to this one topic. But hey if you (or anyone else) wants to continue talking about it, I don't have a problem with that. If you just want to agree to disagree then I'm cool with that, too.

[SiL]

I'm sorry, but the only one who's unable to get the argument here is you. All of your examples have been irrelevant to the point I was making. You ignored every analogy I did give to harp on about totally unrelated points I never questioned. You never addressed a single one. This is beyond frustrating, I'm out.

[Xenomrph]

I'm sorry, but the only one who's unable to get the argument here is you. All of your examples have been irrelevant to the point I was making. You ignored every analogy I did give to harp on about totally unrelated points I never questioned. You never addressed a single one. This is beyond frustrating, I'm out.

I made my point without talking about meta-commentary too. The quote's right there in the post above yours.

But hey, agreeing to disagree is cool too.

[Xenoscream]

She doesn't struggle with the decision in the AC.  She does in the Workprint, but the AC is cut the same as the Theatrical Version.

Why does her sacrifice need to count for anything?

Is that a serious question?

Was the workprint the cut on the old quadrilogy?

It's a serious question on the sacrifice.

[Corporal Hicks]

No, the AC was on both the Quad (where it debuted) and the Anthology. The Workprint has never had an official release.

[Xenoscream]

No, the AC was on both the Quad (where it debuted) and the Anthology. The Workprint has never had an official release.

I must have just seen it as a deleted scene then I guess.

[Russ840]

I could swear that the Assembly cut is called Directors Cut on the quarilogy

[FiorinaFury161]

The Workprint has never had an official release.

That needs to be addressed one day.