Guy Pearce Says Covenant Goes Back to Origins of Ridley Scott’s ‘Alien’ Films!!

Started by Pvt. Himmel, Mar 08, 2017, 06:27:57 PM

Author
Guy Pearce Says Covenant Goes Back to Origins of Ridley Scott’s ‘Alien’ Films!! (Read 16,851 times)

Hemi

It's funny seeing how folk react though, when they migrate from different boards. Their "social filter" is... different. lol

Ontopic:

I suggest waiting for the movie. I think personally it will be interesting to see how it ties into Prometheus. The trailer for Covenant made me rewatch Prometheus, and I had an "OK" time with it. It was nice. So there's that... Maybe others wil feel the same after Covenant is released?

echobbase79

Quote from: Protozoid on Mar 09, 2017, 05:06:08 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Mar 09, 2017, 04:00:47 AM

Protozoid

Do you happen to know what were some of the ideas for Prometheus 2?
Not a lot of details, although a surprising number of those have already been flipped completely around. Instead of no xenos, tons of xenos. Instead of the story being focused on Shaw, we get a cameo. We may not even be getting that, depending on what they cut. Instead of getting the xenos again, Scott kept dangling the promise that Shaw would meet the creator of the Engineers in Paradise and that it would be more sinister than she expected. Instead of getting to meet this new being, it sounds like this movie will focus on the xenomorphs. This may be the biggest change of all: Damon Lindelof said the question we should be asking at the end of Prometheus is, "What does the black goo do?" But from what we've heard, the goo and the Engineers are barely in the movie, if at all. I wish I knew more about Prometheus 2. I imagine that about half of the ideas were jettisoned after Scott made The Martian and the other half will probably still be used. I hope.

Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Mar 09, 2017, 04:17:37 AM
Protozoid what's the one element of covenant that has you most excited? What did you think of the walter teaser clip?
The Walter clip was too short to formulate an opinion. I like the choice of quotes. That gives me hope that the new screenwriters didn't drop the Promethean themes. The part I'm most excited to see is another lesson from a master filmmaker in how to smuggle a worthwhile message into a movie by encoding the images with more detail than the script had. Alien and Blade Runner seemed to help him develop this ability to tell a story with the production design. He even stated this as his goal with Blade Runner. I think Prometheus was a masterpiece of production design and if I find the story of Covenant underwhelming, I will focus on whatever nuggets of wisdom Scott manages to smuggle into the images.

I have no idea if this is actual concept art, but it looks pretty interesting. Maybe they'll use this idea in future movies.


rabidranger

It seems like David feels some kind of contempt for humanity which informs his actions since the end of Prometheus. That said, what if he has some kind of affection for Shaw? He could believe he's doing her a favor by making her a "bride of Frankenstein."

Protozoid

Protozoid

#48
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 09, 2017, 11:38:05 AM
@Protozoid,

I agree with you, Prometheus was limited by its association with Alien and it has become a millstone critically around its neck ever since. And that's why the minute Fox and RS made up their minds to take their planned Alien prequel in a new creative direction, they should of bitten the bullet and made Prometheus an original Sci-fi movie, independent of the Alien franchise.

But I think you have to try and understand, the same annoyance you now have towards Covenant, is how many Alien fans felt towards Prometheus. They were sold the idea of an Alien prequel and ended up with a pseudo-prequel instead; full of retcon.
I don't really see this as equivalent. Like you said, the Alien series ran out of track because the story didn't have any direction and never added up to more than the sum of its parts. But it had its chance: three sequels and two spinoffs. You Alien fans got 3-5 sequels before they hit the reset button. Prometheus fans got one movie. Just one. So while you might say that Alien lived a long time and died a natural death, Prometheus's fate is less natural. It was a hit but still didn't get a proper sequel. Alien fans have less to complain about given that so many of them embrace Aliens as perhaps the greatest sequel of all time.

QuoteAs for Covenant, I see it as a necessary bridge for them to try and correct the continuity issues Prometheus created between itself and Alien. At the end of the day, Prometheus, like it or not, was supposed to be an Alien prequel and has to reconnect narratively back to the original franchise. Fox and RS probably felt that Prometheus 2 was taking things further off reservation, as far as continuity was concerned; digging themselves a much bigger creative hole to write themselves out of; hence the new Alien bible.
I couldn't care less about continuity. It was a head-scratcher on opening day, but ultimately I consider all the connections to Alien to be a liability, like you said. They were better off without them, and I wish they had stuck with the original plan to completely strip the Alien elements from the sequels. The series got the reboot it needed. Rebooting back to Alien isn't really a reboot so much as backpeddling, imo.

QuoteBy the way, what mystery is there really in regards to the black goo? - Its a bio-weapon that creates Xeno-like creatures, just like the mural in the ampule room; mystery solved.
That's only half of it. Lindelof pointed out that the prologue is there to show us that creation occurs after the destruction, it's just microscopic. It destroys and creates.

QuoteFinally, associating a films commercial success with its quality is a silly argument to make. By that logic, Transformers is superior to Prometheus.
Look, I'm not stupid. I know that Avatar isn't the best movie ever made. My point bringing up the grosses was to show that Prometheus was a bigger hit than the last 2-4 movies that had Aliens in them, without the signature aliens or the word "alien" in the title. $400 million and tens of millions of discs means that a lot of people saw the movie, more so than the last several Alien installments. Which means that more than just Alien fans went to see it, and a lot of people must have liked it, because the user scores across the net are also higher than the last Alien films. Fox keeps citing a vocal minority of Alien fans as their target audience, not taking into account that the Alien series had been in decline for twenty years when Prometheus came out. There are a lot of people out there who like Prometheus who are being marginalized if not actively discouraged on this site. Hicks keeps telling me to leave my Covenant comments in the Prometheus board. During the Prometheus days, did he tell the haters to stay on the Alien board? Of course not. It's pretty obvious that Prometheus is the red-headed stepchild around here. Again, I don't think I should have to constantly defend myself for calling Prometheus a good movie and a success on the board for its sequel. Telling me to find another board to post these comments is not appropriate. It's dismissive.

QuoteAnyway, as Corporal Hicks has requested a better debate for the Prometheus boards.
...except that we're talking about Covenant. Telling Prometheus fans to stay on the Prometheus boards is just reinforcing my feeling that Alien fans are pushing the upset Prometheus fans away. They don't want to have to think about how upset they must be right now and are trying a little too hard to de-legitimize dissent. To a Prometheus fan, Covenant is upsetting. Unless you guys want to cut Prometheus fans out of the conversation, it's time to acknowledge that. Stop trying to tell us that Prometheus deserves to be retconned. Stop telling us that box office and our opinions and the movie's positive reviews don't matter.

Prometheus fans matter. They should feel welcome here. They shouldn't have to write a dozen defensive posts for every positive remark they make about Prometheus. If you want to focus on the fact that the glass is half-empty, fine. But don't tell me it's entirely empty. That half-full part of the glass has millions of fans, those fans have feelings, and some of them are reading right now. So keep telling me that we are marginal, that the box office meant nothing, that the reviews meant nothing, that the most famous film critic of his era, Roger Ebert, meant nothing. I expected an Alien forum to favor movies called Alien, but not to the degree that they reject the best-reviewed, highest-grossing entry in the franchise in thirty years, and its fans along with it.

Is this how it's going to be? From now on, Covenant forum is Alien fan territory and Prometheus fans should be advised that every comment they leave will result in being forced to write a dozen defenses?


episodenone

episodenone

#50
I happen to both Love Prometheus and Recognize it's flaws.  I don't feel there is a persecution or bias here.  If there was a negative bias back when Prometheus was new - it seems to have been replaced with acceptance and nostalgia.

So let's just move on -- Corporal Hicks has allowed this debate to continue -- it's time we all move on.

P.S. to be completely honest -- i fell like i'm either a thread killer or i just make some amazingly cool observation and no one seems to care.
I'd rather have people at least argue with me :'(

newagescamartist

If it weren't for Prometheus, we'd be getting retcon Alien 3 with a mediocre director and just more of same stuff we've seen for almost 40 years. Why can't we be happy that Covenant is both a sequel to Prometheus and a prequel to Alien? As a fan of both, I'm excited. And Covenant is only part 1 of a 3 movie series so who knows what we will see. I'll take this anyday over Alien 3 part 2 or Aliens 2.5 or whatever the retcon would of been called.

MajorB

I have already posted in the Covenant 2 thread my thoughts on Prometheus 2 becoming an Alien movie:

QuoteIt's not like Prometheus failed and they immediately switched track to making an Alien movie. Ridley and Fox had been trying to crack the story for years as Prometheus 2, and it never came together. This is purely conjecture, but ultimately I think the creative reason why this became an Alien movie is because Prometheus failed in one huge aspect: pointing the franchise away from Alien in the first place. This is because the black goo makes Xenomorphs, they are inextricably intertwined with whatever the Engineers' plans for humanity were. The movie ends with Shaw heading to the Engineer homeworld with a ship filled with Xenomorph juice... there's not very many ways that story goes without the overall result that we've seen in the Covenant trailers. Whatever a sequel to Prometheus would have been, it would have been more difficult to work around the Xenos than to just utilize them, and once you've done that you have an Alien movie. I say this as a person who loved Prometheus to bits and is very disappointed that the Prometheusness of Covenant will apparently be negligible.

So I think that ultimately it made sense for this to become an Alien movie, and I don't think Ridley is a hack for changing his course.

However, I remain optimistic that the concepts and plot threads of Prometheus are not dead or forgotten. There are still two films left to get us to Alien '79, and we know that somewhere along the way an Engineer ship needs to crash on LV-426. And who knows- if Shaw has been virtually excised from the film, maybe keeping her fate ambiguous is important to whatever story concepts they have for the future.

Predaker

Seems like the engineers will be to Prometheus what the space jockey was to Alien. 30 some odd years from now, Luke Scott will make a prequel to Prometheus and wonder aloud why the engineers were never explored further.

;D

MICHELLE JOHNSTON

I just wanted to chip in and say how much I appreciated AP(CH) breaking the news of not only Guy's involvement but the general outline of the scene he is involved in.

I have always been fascinated by how John Logan's symphonic threading style would be used to connect the narrative investment in Prometheus into Covenant and when I heard about this scene I was greatly encouraged. Like all the best ideas it is so simple frame Prometheus inside the Covenant narrative. I also think both the painting, the piece played and the image from the teardrop flight path will prove to be important sign posts.

All of this reinforces Wayne Haag's remarks in CH's Podcast IV that Covenant will drag Prometheus in its wake and as the narrative emerges we will be responding with a certain amount of "So thats what that meant".

I haven't watched the trailers (Aliens Are Us) but the stills of David give a very substantial hint as to Ridders big (idea) for David.       

Hemi

QuoteIs this how it's going to be? From now on, Covenant forum is Alien fan territory and Prometheus fans should be advised that every comment they leave will result in being forced to write a dozen defenses?



I love this header don't you?

:P

Protozoid

The sign on the wall is pretty clear, I agree.

Kurai

I hope we get another TED Talk type of thing, that was quite a dramatic piece for a viral campaign and Guy Pearce really handled it well. Maybe something on spaceship design rather than focusing on the Androids, or even going in depth on a planned colonization. Even if it isn't "Weyland" on the stage, another TED Talk would be awesome.

Dangerous Days

Dangerous Days

#58
Quote from: Protozoid on Mar 09, 2017, 04:53:16 PM
I couldn't care less about continuity. It was a head-scratcher on opening day, but ultimately I consider all the connections to Alien to be a liability, like you said. They were better off without them, and I wish they had stuck with the original plan to completely strip the Alien elements from the sequels. The series got the reboot it needed. Rebooting back to Alien isn't really a reboot so much as backpeddling, imo..

Just to reiterate the point though. The whole creative drive from RS with these prequels is to tell the Space Jockey's story and its relationship to the Alien. So even when there was a planned Prometheus trilogy, it was always meant to link back to the original franchise at some point. So you may not care about the alien elements or the continuity to Alien, but Fox and RS clearly do and see Covenant as a important link in the chain of the story their trying to tell.

Also, I do feel some Prometheus fans are overreacting. Yes, Covenant is bringing back the Alien front and centre, but the Promethean elements are still clearly there and I fully expect the film will answer a number of questions left over from Prometheus, while also expanding on the Engineer culture. But whether your satisfied with the answers is an issue to take up with Fox and RS, not the fault of the Alien fan base.

All in all, these prequels appear to be creation mythos stories: 1st film deals with human creation. 2nd deals with the Xenomorph creation. 3rd maybe Engineer creation? - Before the 4th links them all together, in a classic Greek mythology tale, of creations turning on their creators; obviously revolving around David; who's both classic Titan-Prometheus: Stealing fire from the gods. (the black goo) And neo-Prometheus: Frankenstein, Playing at being god, creating monsters.

Quote from: Protozoid on Mar 09, 2017, 04:53:16 PM
That's only half of it. Lindelof pointed out that the prologue is there to show us that creation occurs after the destruction, it's just microscopic. It destroys and creates.

I believe the substance the sacrificial Engineer uses is different from the black goo. It clearly has a different appearance and a different effect.




Finally, I have no problem with your position and actually agree with some of your points, but you do seem to be redirecting your sense of persecution, from your time on the IMDB forums, back onto people here; often unjustifiably so, imo.

Generalising about the fan base and trying to claim victimization, isn't going to get you anywhere. It just comes across as melodramatic.

As you've already said yourself, you've got to expect a degree of partisanship towards the Alien films, on an Alien forum.

As for moving the conversation over to the Prometheus board. I was just trying to be respectful to Hicks, not disrespectful of you or the Prometheus fans.


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