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Author Topic: This is why Prometheus is a great Sci-Fi film  (Read 7334 times)

SM
Mar 02, 2017, 09:05:42 PM
Reply #15 on: Mar 02, 2017, 09:05:42 PM
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It's not like it's a massive leap though (even taking the deleted scene that helps explain it out of the equation).


echobbase79
Mar 02, 2017, 09:19:11 PM
Reply #16 on: Mar 02, 2017, 09:19:11 PM
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Oh, I forgot about the deleted scene. I'll need to watch that again.


Hemi
Mar 02, 2017, 09:53:18 PM
Reply #17 on: Mar 02, 2017, 09:53:18 PM
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It's not like it's a massive leap though (even taking the deleted scene that helps explain it out of the equation).

Still... It has that "oh shit we need to explain this quick or we will lose the audience" vibe... It lacks subtlety.

But yes, it was obvious where things were going.


The_Foxcatcher
Mar 03, 2017, 07:00:16 AM
Reply #18 on: Mar 03, 2017, 07:00:16 AM
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Janek had access to giant space map and knew damn well where they were. The storm hadn't hit using that as an excuse won't work. It was simply put...stupid. A plothole by some bad writing.

Bad assessment on your part. Janek had the map based on the scan done by the pups. And the Pups didn't map the exit route from the point of its activation. Not a plothole.


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Shaw takes out an alien octopus from her belly. She lets him/her/it/wtf inside the machine and does not try to kill it herself or ask the crew to bring a flamethrower in the surgery room if they have a craving for squid rings with an after-state of placenta.

After getting out of the medpod, Shaw pressed a button and gassed the Tribolite until it was immobilized i.e. presumably dead. That was enough for sensible audience. If you want to still nitpick, you can surely do it, 

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In order for Shaw to access the surgery room and make her own custom caesarian, she had to hit 2 other crew-members on the head with a blunt metal object. Those two crew-members will 2 hours later join Shaw for another mission in the alien cavern and none of them will ever mention that Shaw used to have an alien baby in her stomach, that they were savagely attacked, or that they can’t walk straight anymore since their brains started to leak from their nostrils.

Everybody on the ship knew what happened to Shaw. Ford & Shaw would have had a confrontation also, just like Lambert & Ripley. It was just not shown in the movie. The film-makers thought of not spoon-feeding inessential details and extend the runtime to bore the smart audience.

David also commented 'Excellent survival instincts'

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Putting aside the previously mentioned problem of Shaw not telling anyone about her hentai-potent child, it is shocking to see no one did anything about it either.

They would have seen it still dead and were busy in preparations for Weyland's visit to the Pyramid. They would have surely dumped the dead baby, had they all survived and returned back to the ship. But during that gap in time, the gas dissipated and the Trilobite got conscious and grew larger in size.


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Most of the crew were stupid imo.

Who?


Nice try!


SM
Mar 03, 2017, 07:15:36 AM
Reply #19 on: Mar 03, 2017, 07:15:36 AM
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Bad assessment on your part. Janek had the map based on the scan done by the pups. And the Pups didn't map the exit route from the point of its activation. Not a plothole.

Fifield released the PUPs just after they entered the structure.  Are you suggesting Janek couldn't read a map to direct them to the exit?

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They would have seen it still dead and were busy in preparations for Weyland's visit to the Pyramid. They would have surely dumped the dead baby, had they all survived and returned back to the ship. But during that gap in time, the gas dissipated and the Trilobite got conscious and grew larger in size.


Why would they dump a unique alien organism?


The_Foxcatcher
Mar 03, 2017, 07:26:49 AM
Reply #20 on: Mar 03, 2017, 07:26:49 AM
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Fifield released the PUPs just after they entered the structure.  Are you suggesting Janek couldn't read a map to direct them to the exit?

They activated the pups much after entering the place and not exactly at the entrance. On their return, Fifield could have missed the exit as you know that entrance was pretty small, such that they had to bend down to enter.


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Why would they dump a unique alien organism?

Just saying 'dump'. I mean whatever they wanted to do with it, had they all survived and returned back to the ship.

 


windebieste
Mar 03, 2017, 07:28:26 AM
Reply #21 on: Mar 03, 2017, 07:28:26 AM
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I wouldn't go so far as to say 'most of the crew are stupid'; but Fifield and Milburn deserve derision:

Fifield, the expedition's Geologist, goes to another planet and fails to pick up a single rock. ...er, really?  He should be champing at the bit to get outside as soon as they land and spend 10-15 minutes collecting samples just outside the ship.  Yet, nope.   For a man who later declares he 'loves rocks', there's really no indication of any of his geological profession, interest or skills. 

Milburn is such a pussy for a biologist.  He sees a headless Alien corpse and runs away.  He then wants to go play with some space snake thingy that for all intents and purposes is displaying aggressive behavior without any means of snaring or properly collecting it as a sample.  Just pet the f**king thing, idiot.   Some biologist you got there.  Darwin award material.  He's so f**king stupid, he probably wouldn't understand that phrase and how appropriate it is to him in so many ways.  lol.

Both of these characters are weak.  Neither of them fulfill any expectations that someone in those professions would properly demonstrate if they were in those roles as perceived by the audience.  A pair f**kheads like that should never be considered appropriate for their place on board the 'PROMETHEUS'.  They'd be more at home in a shitty Asylum movie.

Those 2 are the worst cases; but Holloway has occasional moments of 'Too Stupid to Live' as well. 

-Windebieste.


The_Foxcatcher
Mar 03, 2017, 08:05:07 AM
Reply #22 on: Mar 03, 2017, 08:05:07 AM
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I wouldn't go so far as to say 'most of the crew are stupid';

True. And that too they were deliberately recruited. Do you think Vickers, who was not in support of her dad's agenda and who wanted to succeed him as Chairman of the company, would ever recruit whole-heartedly ?

Give some imagination. Imagine Vickers on Earth going through files of applicants who were ready to sign for a 4 year mission and after looking at these two mediocre ones, she says ' yeah, now these two jerks are good enough!' Obviously, she wouldn't want expert scientist who'd provide useful insights to the expedition leading them to discover what Weyland was searching for.

She wanted puppets who're there just for money and who'd secretly work for her. Imagine how she would have instructed both of them during their sign-up for the mission.


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but Fifield and Milburn deserve derision:

Fifield, the expedition's Geologist, goes to another planet and fails to pick up a single rock. ...er, really?  He should be champing at the bit to get outside as soon as they land and spend 10-15 minutes collecting samples just outside the ship.  Yet, nope.   For a man who later declares he 'loves rocks', there's really no indication of any of his geological profession, interest or skills. 

Yes, He was there just for money and had least interest in rocks


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Milburn is such a pussy for a biologist.  He sees a headless Alien corpse and runs away.  He then wants to go play with some space snake thingy that for all intents and purposes is displaying aggressive behavior without any means of snaring or properly collecting it as a sample.  Just pet the f**king thing, idiot.   Some biologist you got there.  Darwin award material.  He's so f**king stupid, he probably wouldn't understand that phrase and how appropriate it is to him in so many ways.  lol.

Vickers did try to mandate both Holloway and Shaw to report back to the ship once they find beings down there. So obviously she would have instructed the same thing to Milburn & Fifield, And that's what happened. When they found a dead alien body, they opted out and to go back to the ship. Milburn just pretended to be scared. Infact he was sitting close to the dead body. Fifield on the other way was genuinely scared (as we seen him nervous entering the dome also).



Russ840
Mar 03, 2017, 08:54:45 AM
Reply #23 on: Mar 03, 2017, 08:54:45 AM
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I wouldn't go so far as to say 'most of the crew are stupid';

True. And that too they were deliberately recruited. Do you think Vickers, who was not in support of her dad's agenda and who wanted to succeed him as Chairman of the company, would ever recruit whole-heartedly ?

Give some imagination. Imagine Vickers on Earth going through files of applicants who were ready to sign for a 4 year mission and after looking at these two mediocre ones, she says ' yeah, now these two jerks are good enough!' Obviously, she wouldn't want expert scientist who'd provide useful insights to the expedition leading them to discover what Weyland was searching for.

She wanted puppets who're there just for money and who'd secretly work for her. Imagine how she would have instructed both of them during their sign-up for the mission.


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but Fifield and Milburn deserve derision:

Fifield, the expedition's Geologist, goes to another planet and fails to pick up a single rock. ...er, really?  He should be champing at the bit to get outside as soon as they land and spend 10-15 minutes collecting samples just outside the ship.  Yet, nope.   For a man who later declares he 'loves rocks', there's really no indication of any of his geological profession, interest or skills. 

Yes, He was there just for money and had least interest in rocks


Quote
Milburn is such a pussy for a biologist.  He sees a headless Alien corpse and runs away.  He then wants to go play with some space snake thingy that for all intents and purposes is displaying aggressive behavior without any means of snaring or properly collecting it as a sample.  Just pet the f**king thing, idiot.   Some biologist you got there.  Darwin award material.  He's so f**king stupid, he probably wouldn't understand that phrase and how appropriate it is to him in so many ways.  lol.

Vickers did try to mandate both Holloway and Shaw to report back to the ship once they find beings down there. So obviously she would have instructed the same thing to Milburn & Fifield, And that's what happened. When they found a dead alien body, they opted out and to go back to the ship. Milburn just pretended to be scared. Infact he was sitting close to the dead body. Fifield on the other way was genuinely scared (as we seen him nervous entering the dome also).

Dude. You are just adding you own fan fiction to flesh out the story and support your agument that your opinion should be universal and if other don't agree.... then they are dumb.


The_Foxcatcher
Mar 03, 2017, 09:24:48 AM
Reply #24 on: Mar 03, 2017, 09:24:48 AM
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Dude. You are just adding you own fan fiction to flesh out the story and support your agument that your opinion should be universal and if other don't agree.... then they are dumb.

Not fan-fiction, dude but logical conjectures. If you can't deduce the cause of an event by simple common sense, its your bad.

Its a kind of a movie which doesn't spoon feed you with the obvious. I wonder how people would laugh at you if you keep sayin' 'fan-fiction' 'fan-fiction' 'fan-fiction' at discussion boards of movies like Shutter Island, There will be blood, The 39 Steps, The Third Man etc. just because something which is obvious and deduced by information coming from the movie & which is not shown in the movie.

You should better pop into the AVP & AVPR forums. That's your kind of movie it seems.


Beardomorph
Mar 03, 2017, 10:59:19 AM
Reply #25 on: Mar 03, 2017, 10:59:19 AM
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Fanwanking is very different from using smart thinking to connect the dots.
 
Connecting the dots in Prometheus would be for example deducing that the Hammerpedes are mutated worms. The transformation is not shown happening, the audience is required to put two and two together. There are worms in the goo+the goo mutates organisms = the worms mutated. There is quite a bit of connecting the dots required in Prometheus, and that is a good thing.

Fanwanking is inventing explanations to try and ignore flaws and errors in continuity. That's what you're mainly doing.

And don't get me wrong, fanwanking can involve smart thinking, if it makes the movie better for you that's great, it just doesn't make it a de facto great movie, and your explanations may work for you but they're not actual facts that should be deduced by smart audiences. In fact, the more you have to fanwank when watching a movie, the less "great" and "smart" the movie is. And there's a LOT of fanwanking required to enjoy Prometheus, as you are proving.

Let's take that example :
Everybody on the ship knew what happened to Shaw. Ford & Shaw would have had a confrontation also, just like Lambert & Ripley. It was just not shown in the movie. The film-makers thought of not spoon-feeding inessential details and extend the runtime to bore the smart audience.

I don't even know where to start with that one. How is it inessential to witness the reunion of two people when one of them was almost responsible for the other's death following the orders of a robot, all the more when said reunion is so they can go on another mission together with the same robot?! Because it should take seconds if these two supposedly SMART people had a confrontation for them to figure out something is wrong with David. So if a confrontation did happen you'd think a smart movie would have taken on a different path following that, given that Weyland relies so much on David.

Ford seems like a nice person and has actually worked with Shaw ( Engineer's head scene ), I actually would have been very interested in seeing her realise the full horror of what Shaw went through and how she was a part of it ( all the more that the actress is really good, just saw her this week in The Witch, made me all the more disappointed at how underused she was in Prometheus ).

So what you are deeming "inessential" is for me something that makes a movie worth watching. Seeing characters interact and having to go through complicated, tough situations and emotions is a big part of the fun when watching a smart movie. The aftermath of Shaw's C-sec shouldn't have been one line by David "impressive survival skills". Not showing anybody being concerned by the movie's protagonist being almost naked, bloody and stapled isn't smart. We need these people to show realistic human emotions to relate to them and actually feel involved when they die.

See, in Alien I actually cared about Lambert, because of all the scenes she had, and all the confrontations she had with the crew. She was acting like a realistic fragile person crumbling under pressure. So I was really into the movie and sad for Lambert when she died. That is good film making. And yet Lambert's death scene still has a "connect the dots" element to it as the clues are there for a smart audience to deduce that the Alien raped her. Smart filmmaking is knowing what to show and what not to show. The truth is that some of Prometheus is just NOT smart.

For you a confrontation between Shaw and Ford was inessential, and yet the result of your inessential scene not being there is that when Ford died I really didn't care or give a f**k ( and neither did Shaw ). Ripley being concerned for Lambert was a nice touch in Alien... but then again Alien IS a great movie.




« Last Edit: Mar 03, 2017, 11:35:52 AM by Beardomorph »

Russ840
Mar 03, 2017, 11:05:13 AM
Reply #26 on: Mar 03, 2017, 11:05:13 AM
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Dude. You are just adding you own fan fiction to flesh out the story and support your agument that your opinion should be universal and if other don't agree.... then they are dumb.

Not fan-fiction, dude but logical conjectures. If you can't deduce the cause of an event by simple common sense, its your bad.

Its a kind of a movie which doesn't spoon feed you with the obvious. I wonder how people would laugh at you if you keep sayin' 'fan-fiction' 'fan-fiction' 'fan-fiction' at discussion boards of movies like Shutter Island, There will be blood, The 39 Steps, The Third Man etc. just because something which is obvious and deduced by information coming from the movie & which is not shown in the movie.

You should better pop into the AVP & AVPR forums. That's your kind of movie it seems.

Please don't insult me. I was not rude to you so don't be to me.  You are again insinuating that another fan is stupid because they do not think the same as you. I do understand not being spoon fed. To be clear here. I don't hate on Prometheus. I like the ideas. I love the presentation. I think the execution is lacking. I certainly am not a fan of AVP or AVPR.  Do not presume to know my preferences and again, do not be rude to me for no reason.

I am a huge fan of the films ( the ones which I have seen ) you have mentioned as examples of film that I clearly do not have the cognitive ability to digest. 

I don't understand your problem with other people's opinions. Care to explain why you converse with people in such a 'dick' manner ?

 

Fanwanking is very different from using smart thinking to connect the dots.
 
Connecting the dots in Prometheus would be for example deducing that the Hammerpedes are mutated worms. The transformation is not shown happening, the audience is required to put two and two together. There are worms in the goo+the goo mutates organisms = the worms mutated. There is quite a bit of connecting the dots required in Prometheus, and that is a good thing.

Fanwanking is inventing explanations to try and ignore flaws and errors in continuity. That's what you're mainly doing.

And don't get me wrong, fanwanking can involve smart thinking, if it makes the movie better for you that's great, it just doesn't make it a de facto great movie, and your explanations may work for you but they're not actual facts that should be deduced by smart audiences. In fact, the more you have to fanwank when watching a movie, the less "great" and "smart" the movie is. And there's a LOT of fanwanking required to enjoy Prometheus, as you are proving.

Let's take that example :
Everybody on the ship knew what happened to Shaw. Ford & Shaw would have had a confrontation also, just like Lambert & Ripley. It was just not shown in the movie. The film-makers thought of not spoon-feeding inessential details and extend the runtime to bore the smart audience.

I don't even know where to start with that one. How is it inessential to witness the reunion of two people when one of them was almost responsible for the other's death following the orders of a robot, all the more when said reunion is so they can go on another mission together with the same robot?! Because it should take seconds if these two supposedly SMART people had a confrontation for them to figure out something is wrong with David. So if a confrontation did happen you'd think a smart movie would have taken on a different path following that, given that Weyland relies so much on David.

Ford seems like a nice person and has actually worked with Shaw ( Engineer's head scene ), I actually would have been very interested in seeing her realise the full horror of what Shaw went through and how she was a part of it ( all the more that the actress is really good, just saw her this week in The Witch, made me all the more disappointed at how underused she was in Prometheus ).

So what you are deeming "inessential" is for me something that makes a movie worth watching. Seeing characters interact and having to go through complicated, tough situations and emotions is a big part of the fun when watching a smart movie. The aftermath of Shaw's C-sec shouldn't have been one line by David "impressive survival skills". Not showing anybody being concerned by the movie's protagonist being almost naked, bloody and stapled isn't smart. We need these people to show realistic human emotions to relate to them and actually feel involved when they die.

See, in Alien I actually cared about Lambert. She was acting like a realistic fragile person crumbling under pressure. So I was really into the movie and sad for Lambert when she died. That is good film making. And yet Lambert's scene still has a "connect the dots" element to it as the clues are there for a smart audience to deduce that the Alien raped her. Smart filmmaking is knowing what to show and what not to show. The truth is that some of Prometheus is just NOT smart.

For you a confrontation between Shaw and Ford was inessential, and yet the result of your inessential scene not being there is that when Ford died I really didn't care or give a f**k ( and neither did Shaw ). Ripley being concerned for Lambert was a nice touch in Alien... but then again Alien IS a great movie.

Nicely put mate.

« Last Edit: Mar 03, 2017, 11:09:37 AM by Russ840 »


Corporal Hicks
Mar 03, 2017, 11:33:34 AM
Reply #28 on: Mar 03, 2017, 11:33:34 AM
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You should better pop into the AVP & AVPR forums. That's your kind of movie it seems.

You've made a really good early impression. Since you seem incapable of putting across your own opinions without coming across as a condescending ass, please use the 7 days that I'm removing your ability to post to rethink how you put yourself across on these boards.


FenGiddel
Mar 03, 2017, 06:34:54 PM
Reply #29 on: Mar 03, 2017, 06:34:54 PM
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Ford seems like a nice person and has actually worked with Shaw ( Engineer's head scene ), I actually would have been very interested in seeing her realise the full horror of what Shaw went through and how she was a part of it [...] 


Hmmm...now that you mention it, that would have made for good drama.  I sometimes get so caught up in the "shiny-pretty" of the sets, I miss that kind of cue.  Nice suggestion!   :)


 

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