Michael Fassbender Talks David's Character Development

Started by Corporal Hicks, Jan 19, 2017, 04:10:56 PM

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Michael Fassbender Talks David's Character Development (Read 21,800 times)

Scorpio

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jan 22, 2017, 02:36:12 AM
Doesn't matter. It's all von Daniken now. That's what the Engineer thing is about. And black goo is the fire in Prometheus. Very on the nose, not very mysterious. People are so excited to have Ridley making these movies, and it's not that great. Ridley today is simply not the Ridley who made the original Alien. Plus Giger and O'Bannon are long gone. And the world is different, not least because of the original Alien's influence. It's highly unlikely this movie is more than just another tired entry in a series that ran completely out of breath in the 90's. But maybe we'll be surprised.

The original Alien referenced Von Daniken with the concept art showing pyramids.  In fact, AVP and Prometheus went back to a lot of the original ideas not used for Alien.  Giger and O'Bannon were influenced by Von Daniken.  You can see Egyptian influences in some of Giger's paintings.  O'Bannon worked on Total Recall which has the ancient aliens idea.


OpenMaw

Quote from: Scorpio on Jan 25, 2017, 04:07:54 AM
The original Alien referenced Von Daniken with the concept art showing pyramids.  In fact, AVP and Prometheus went back to a lot of the original ideas not used for Alien.  Giger and O'Bannon were influenced by Von Daniken.  You can see Egyptian influences in some of Giger's paintings.  O'Bannon worked on Total Recall which has the ancient aliens idea.

All of which is more or less irrelevant for a number of reasons.

1. A lot of that stuff was straight out cut from Alien. It's not there.

2. Even if it had been in there, most of it would have been with H.R. Giger's style (Like the hieroglyphs that were made but never used.). It would not have had a Chariots of the Gods vibe. It would still retain the "At The Mountains of Madness" feeling. Lovecraftian, distant, ALIEN, horror...

3. Total Recall is not Alien. They're different stories. Even then, O'Bannon never implied anywhere in any bit of the scripts available that the Jockey or Xeno were related to us at all. It was an A L I E N. Not from here. Unknown to us in every sense. Heck, even in TC they don't even imply that the aliens were related to us. They have very different hands as we see from the atmospheric generator's control.

SiL

O'Bannon's influence was clearly Lovecraft rather than Daniken. Daniken's almost the antithesis of Lovecraft in human/alien relationships.

XenoHunter99

OpenMaw and SiL haven't left much for me to say. Not every instance of a pyramid or use of Egyptian style is automatically a von Daniken reference.

BringbackJonesy!

BringbackJonesy!

#79
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jan 24, 2017, 02:03:38 AM
The illusion of a graceful, powerful creature pretty much fell apart in the final scene as the creature dangled stiffly and helplessly from the end of its rope.

Just a little thought concerning this point you've brought up - I agree that the shot where the 'Big Chap' dangles and then hits off the shuttle was the one truly poor shot of the alien in the movie, as it really looked like a guy in a rubber suit.

Thankfully, we'd all been immersed in a great movie by that point, and had been treated to many awesomely filmed angles of the 'Big Chap' by that point already.  However, there's an alternative, unused shot in the extras where the 'guy in the suit' (on the rope) is seen through the window as it heads towards our viewpoint and bounces off the window leaving a slight smear with it's hand - I ALWAYS wish that Ridley had used this angle instead, as the shot looked far more effective and had far more of an impact I thought, as the 'guy in the suit' collided with a thud towards us.  I seem to recall that it's missing the tail as well as Ripley (in white spacesuit) looking out of the window...so it must have been a test shot of some sort I guess.  However, it could have been a terrific shot if it had been worked on a little more.  Oh well.

(by the way, I laughed at your suggestion that GIGER might have thought the 'Deacon' baby looked like a 'dinosaur'!  Thankyou, as I KNEW there was something that was bothering me about it's appearance that I couldn't quite put my finger on - it's not just the fact that it's kinda posed like one on it back haunches shiffing about, it's also the the fact that it kinda 'roars' like one too)  ;D

Scorpio

Scorpio

#80
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 25, 2017, 06:05:27 AM
Quote from: Scorpio on Jan 25, 2017, 04:07:54 AM
The original Alien referenced Von Daniken with the concept art showing pyramids.  In fact, AVP and Prometheus went back to a lot of the original ideas not used for Alien.  Giger and O'Bannon were influenced by Von Daniken.  You can see Egyptian influences in some of Giger's paintings.  O'Bannon worked on Total Recall which has the ancient aliens idea.

All of which is more or less irrelevant for a number of reasons.

1. A lot of that stuff was straight out cut from Alien. It's not there.

And was re-used for Prometheus and AVP, so it is there.

Quote2. Even if it had been in there, most of it would have been with H.R. Giger's style (Like the hieroglyphs that were made but never used.). It would not have had a Chariots of the Gods vibe. It would still retain the "At The Mountains of Madness" feeling. Lovecraftian, distant, ALIEN, horror...

The art I'm referring to isn't by Giger.  Originally the explorers were to enter a pyramid, and discover hieroglyphs much like AVP/Prometheus.



Although Giger did to artwork for some hieroglyphs:



Quote3. Total Recall is not Alien. They're different stories. Even then, O'Bannon never implied anywhere in any bit of the scripts available that the Jockey or Xeno were related to us at all. It was an A L I E N. Not from here. Unknown to us in every sense. Heck, even in TC they don't even imply that the aliens were related to us. They have very different hands as we see from the atmospheric generator's control.

I thought the argument was that O'Bannon wasn't influenced by Von Daniken.  But in the original script for Alien they enter a pyramid, do they not?  Pyramids are found on Earth, hence the ancient aliens theory popularised by Von Daniken in the late 60s/early 70s.  But Lovecraft's work also carries the some of the same ideas decades earlier.

*Fixed quotes. Hicks

XenoHunter99

XenoHunter99

#81
Quote from: BringbackJonesy! on Jan 26, 2017, 02:31:12 AM
Thankfully, we'd all been immersed in a great movie by that point, and had been treated to many awesomely filmed angles of the 'Big Chap' by that point already.  However, there's an alternative, unused shot in the extras where the 'guy in the suit' (on the rope) is seen through the window as it heads towards our viewpoint and bounces off the window leaving a slight smear with it's hand - I ALWAYS wish that Ridley had used this angle instead, as the shot looked far more effective and had far more of an impact I thought, as the 'guy in the suit' collided with a thud towards us.  I seem to recall that it's missing the tail as well as Ripley (in white spacesuit) looking out of the window...so it must have been a test shot of some sort I guess.  However, it could have been a terrific shot if it had been worked on a little more.  Oh well.
That alternate shot might have been a lot better, but I'm sure there were reasons. The tail was a problem, too. IIRC, it did not really work.Oh well. :)

Quote from: BringbackJonesy! on Jan 26, 2017, 02:31:12 AM
(by the way, I laughed at your suggestion that GIGER might have thought the 'Deacon' baby looked like a 'dinosaur'!  Thankyou, as I KNEW there was something that was bothering me about it's appearance that I couldn't quite put my finger on - it's not just the fact that it's kinda posed like one on it back haunches shiffing about, it's also the the fact that it kinda 'roars' like one too)  ;D
Glad you got a laugh :)


Quote from: Scorpio on Jan 26, 2017, 11:33:31 PM
I thought the argument was that O'Bannon wasn't influenced by Von Daniken.  But in the original script for Alien they enter a pyramid, do they not?  Pyramids are found on Earth, hence the ancient aliens theory popularised by Von Daniken in the late 60s/early 70s.  But Lovecraft's work also carries the some of the same ideas decades earlier.
Intentionality and influence are spurious points for argument. From what we know, O'Bannon and Giger were influenced primarily by Lovecraft in their approach to the creature. It's no accident that Giger's art book was called the Necronimicon. While von Daniken influence is possible, AFAIK, no one pointed to it in the making of the original film. And the mere existence of a pyramid does not automatically say "von Daniken." In this case, I think the answer is no.

First, we're informed by the cultural and architectural heritage we've inherited. That is, we think of pyramids because we've got pyramids. It makes sense to use pyramids as the pyramids on earth are quite old and impressively large. And yet, humans made them.

Next, we can't really think like aliens because we're humans. We can try to imagine things beyond the sphere of human knowledge, but we do so from our position within that sphere. In the end, our aliens end up looking like things we've seen right here on earth, and our alien places sort of resemble places found on earth, too. At the very least, the building blocks are accessible to our human minds.

Finally, it is at this point impossible to really settle the point. O'Bannon and Giger are both gone. We could ask Scott, but he has shown a willingness in interviews to say whatever is in his mind at the moment - You couldn't really trust his answer. So there we are. Lovecraft then, von Daniken now.

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