So what really happened with Prometheus?

[Protozoid]

So glad to see you here, BB!

[BishopShouldGo]

I never understood why Ridley felt the Alien couldn't be scary again? I mean he was one of the reasons the first film worked so well. The script that Spaihts was good and contained some scary material that I think Ridely could've pulled off very well. Especially the end scene with the Engineer Xenomorph.

The irony is Prometheus wasn't scary either. There was hardly any tension in that film. The abortion scene was good, but that's about it.

I know that the studio trailers mislead people into thinking Prometheus was going to be a horror / monster hunt film like Alien.
And I realize many were very disappointed because of that.
But as for Ridley, he didn't do the trailers.

My understanding from listening to Ridley's "Prometheus" commentary and several of his interviews was he didn't want to repeat himself in terms of sets, style or tone.
Looking at Ridley's career, one thing that strikes me is how varied his movies are; Legend, Thelma and Lousise, Gladiator, Black Hawk Down to name a few.
- And with his science fiction films up to now, all of them are different from Alien, Blade Runner, Prometheus and The Martian.

* When the Spaihts scripts were submitted, eventually there was opposition from the studio about the cost of having so many monsters and special effects.
This resulted in bringing Lindelof on board to make a much cheaper script to film.
But that also gave Ridley more control which he has admitted.
What Scott did was to use Lindelof to change the Alien/horror prequel of Spaihts into a science fiction adventure movie.

Prometheus is not a horror film in terms of lighting, tone or the emotions of the characters.
It reminds me more of Jurassic Park with having scientists go on an adventure set up by a self centered rich guy.
There's talk about changing DNA. Some tell the person in charge that it is all a crazy idea.
Someone gets lost. Someone screws things up. Monsters get on the loose and eventually they start killing people. 
Put this in space with some 2001 themes / segments, change the dinos into xenomorph type monsters and that's most of Prometheus.
 
Prometheus allowed Ridley to tell his ideas about the Space Jockey (which he's pondered for many years).
Scott was able to partly do an homage to 2001 (Ridley is a huge Kubrick fan).
It made money and he didn't repeat himself.
A win win for Scott.

Imo at least.

On point.

I was initially very angry at Prometheus. I hated it for months because I felt betrayed. I wanted an "Alien" movie even though I knew a year and a half prior that it wouldn't be one. Didn't like the music, didn't like the Engineers, didn't like the DNA sequence in the beginning. I was jealous that those beautiful opening shots, and the vastness of the film wasn't for an ALIEN film. I had wanted all of that for an ALIEN Alien movie for years and I almost had it, but then it transformed into Prometheus. It was so gorgeous and big, there was not a crushed black corridor in sight. Charlize Theron was in it. It was sleek. It's a blockbuster. It matters. It's in conversations alongside DARK KNIGHT RISES and AVENGERS.

But then I thought: all of this hatred is only hurting myself, and I need to open minded. I rewatched it, and I fell in love with it. I couldn't help it. And now it's my favorite of the franchise.

And it looks like I'll be getting beautiful shots and vastness in an ALIEN Alien movie after all with Covenant. No Charlize Theron-status actor sans Fassbender(who is a holdover from the previous film) but right now, all is well for me. Long live Prometheus.

It may be very romantic of me to assume that Covenant will still retain a high degree of intelligence(Prometheus-y), and that the two succeeding two entries will follow suit and be even deeper.

[Protozoid]

Nanison, rumour has it that it was Tom Rothman (Fox Film Co-Chair and CEO at the time and also a friend of Scott) who requested the removal of the Alien. It's Fox's property after all, not Ridley's as some people seem to think. I think the Spaiths treatment predated Rothman's tenure.

And as SM mentioned, Ridley seemed more interested in pursuing the Space Jockey angle since it was never explored in any of the Alien sequels. I don't think Scott had any issues with binning the Alien.

Of course with Rothman now gone, the new regime at Fox has to do the diametric opposite of what the previous one did, even going so far as to greenlight Blomkamp's (an old enemy of Rothman) film.

Excellent analysis of the situation. I was unaware of that last part about the enemies - that makes too much sense.

I keep remembering what Scott said about if Prometheus made enough money there would be a trilogy. Prometheus outgrossed X-Men: First Class, a Fox property that got a trilogy. So it clearly was not about money. Circumstantial evidence points towards the new studio chief(s) being meddlesome because they don't want Rothman getting credit for this movie if it's a hit. I hear that's the typical reason studios play this game after a regime change.

[BishopShouldGo]

Yeah, that also happened with the recent Friday the 13th.

[bb-15]

I never understood why Ridley felt the Alien couldn't be scary again? I mean he was one of the reasons the first film worked so well. The script that Spaihts was good and contained some scary material that I think Ridely could've pulled off very well. Especially the end scene with the Engineer Xenomorph.

The irony is Prometheus wasn't scary either. There was hardly any tension in that film. The abortion scene was good, but that's about it.

I know that the studio trailers mislead people into thinking Prometheus was going to be a horror / monster hunt film like Alien.
And I realize many were very disappointed because of that.
But as for Ridley, he didn't do the trailers.

My understanding from listening to Ridley's "Prometheus" commentary and several of his interviews was he didn't want to repeat himself in terms of sets, style or tone.
Looking at Ridley's career, one thing that strikes me is how varied his movies are; Legend, Thelma and Lousise, Gladiator, Black Hawk Down to name a few.
- And with his science fiction films up to now, all of them are different from Alien, Blade Runner, Prometheus and The Martian.

* When the Spaihts scripts were submitted, eventually there was opposition from the studio about the cost of having so many monsters and special effects.
This resulted in bringing Lindelof on board to make a much cheaper script to film.
But that also gave Ridley more control which he has admitted.
What Scott did was to use Lindelof to change the Alien/horror prequel of Spaihts into a science fiction adventure movie.

Prometheus is not a horror film in terms of lighting, tone or the emotions of the characters.
It reminds me more of Jurassic Park with having scientists go on an adventure set up by a self centered rich guy.
There's talk about changing DNA. Some tell the person in charge that it is all a crazy idea.
Someone gets lost. Someone screws things up. Monsters get on the loose and eventually they start killing people. 
Put this in space with some 2001 themes / segments, change the dinos into xenomorph type monsters and that's most of Prometheus.
 
Prometheus allowed Ridley to tell his ideas about the Space Jockey (which he's pondered for many years).
Scott was able to partly do an homage to 2001 (Ridley is a huge Kubrick fan).
It made money and he didn't repeat himself.
A win win for Scott.

Imo at least.

On point.

I was initially very angry at Prometheus. I hated it for months because I felt betrayed. I wanted an "Alien" movie even though I knew a year and a half prior that it wouldn't be one. Didn't like the music, didn't like the Engineers, didn't like the DNA sequence in the beginning. I was jealous that those beautiful opening shots, and the vastness of the film wasn't for an ALIEN film. I had wanted all of that for an ALIEN Alien movie for years and I almost had it, but then it transformed into Prometheus. It was so gorgeous and big, there was not a crushed black corridor in sight. Charlize Theron was in it. It was sleek. It's a blockbuster. It matters. It's in conversations alongside DARK KNIGHT RISES and AVENGERS.

But then I thought: all of this hatred is only hurting myself, and I need to open minded. I rewatched it, and I fell in love with it. I couldn't help it. And now it's my favorite of the franchise.

And it looks like I'll be getting beautiful shots and vastness in an ALIEN Alien movie after all with Covenant. No Charlize Theron-status actor sans Fassbender(who is a holdover from the previous film) but right now, all is well for me. Long live Prometheus.

It may be very romantic of me to assume that Covenant will still retain a high degree of intelligence(Prometheus-y), and that the two succeeding two entries will follow suit and be even deeper.

I will be in line to watch Convenant opening week.
New Ridley Scott science fiction, in an Alien movie with the added expansion introduced by "Prometheus". 
I feel lucky that Ridley has been healthy long enough to continue his vision that he began with "Alien".
Besides Scott's brilliance for set design / camerawork, Fassbender will be back. I think he's very talented and he was my favorite character part of "Prometheus".

So far so good.

Imo at least. ;-)

PS. Also to Protozoid (elijah);

So glad to see you here, BB!

Glad to be here. I have to give credit to sevenlilxenos on IMDb (7Xenos here) for encouraging me to come on over.

[Protozoid]

I was initially very angry at Prometheus. I hated it for months because I felt betrayed. I wanted an "Alien" movie even though I knew a year and a half prior that it wouldn't be one. Didn't like the music, didn't like the Engineers, didn't like the DNA sequence in the beginning. I was jealous that those beautiful opening shots, and the vastness of the film wasn't for an ALIEN film. I had wanted all of that for an ALIEN Alien movie for years and I almost had it, but then it transformed into Prometheus. It was so gorgeous and big, there was not a crushed black corridor in sight. Charlize Theron was in it. It was sleek. It's a blockbuster. It matters. It's in conversations alongside DARK KNIGHT RISES and AVENGERS.

But then I thought: all of this hatred is only hurting myself, and I need to open minded. I rewatched it, and I fell in love with it. I couldn't help it. And now it's my favorite of the franchise.

And it looks like I'll be getting beautiful shots and vastness in an ALIEN Alien movie after all with Covenant. No Charlize Theron-status actor sans Fassbender(who is a holdover from the previous film) but right now, all is well for me. Long live Prometheus.

It may be very romantic of me to assume that Covenant will still retain a high degree of intelligence(Prometheus-y), and that the two succeeding two entries will follow suit and be even deeper.

Thanks for sharing this. Right now I'm going through a lot of similar emotions watching the Prometheus sequel morph into an Alien prequel. I was not very excited about the Alien prequel until it became Prometheus, because imo Scott's talents are wasted continuing a franchise when he's so good at standalone movies. To me, Prometheus can be ranked right alongside Scott's other sci-fi movies. Right now I'm not feeling the Covenant hype at all. It's looking less and less like Prometheus and more and more like what I was afraid Prometheus was going to be. I even read the leaked Alien: Engineers script and felt like we dodged a bullet. There doesn't seem to be anything to gain by connecting Prometheus to Alien, except money. I'm having a hard time coping and keeping my enthusiasm up. Even if Covenant has some of the speculative and mythological dimension that Prometheus had, I think it will be irritating to see those scenes side-by-side with shower kills and the like. I think this movie is having a very difficult time finding a voice, gelling, cohering, however you want to put it, which is why the test screening reports are all for wildly different cuts of the movie. I'm trying not to go off too much, but I'm grappling with some seriously conflicted feelings.

PS. Also to Protozoid (elijah);

Glad to be here. I have to give credit to sevenlilxenos on IMDb (7Xenos here) for encouraging me to come on over.

Well, I'm glad. We need more level-headed Prometheus fans over here. I'm not doing a good job co-existing with all the people on this board who seem glad about the demise of Prometheus. The Covenant forum is increasingly just the Alien crowd who are happy to see the Prometheus stuff scaled back and have no empathy for Prometheus fans who might be crushed by what happened to the sequel. I dunno if you've read any spoilers, BB, but I'm not liking what I read at all.

[bb-15]

I was initially very angry at Prometheus. I hated it for months because I felt betrayed. I wanted an "Alien" movie even though I knew a year and a half prior that it wouldn't be one. Didn't like the music, didn't like the Engineers, didn't like the DNA sequence in the beginning. I was jealous that those beautiful opening shots, and the vastness of the film wasn't for an ALIEN film. I had wanted all of that for an ALIEN Alien movie for years and I almost had it, but then it transformed into Prometheus. It was so gorgeous and big, there was not a crushed black corridor in sight. Charlize Theron was in it. It was sleek. It's a blockbuster. It matters. It's in conversations alongside DARK KNIGHT RISES and AVENGERS.

But then I thought: all of this hatred is only hurting myself, and I need to open minded. I rewatched it, and I fell in love with it. I couldn't help it. And now it's my favorite of the franchise.

And it looks like I'll be getting beautiful shots and vastness in an ALIEN Alien movie after all with Covenant. No Charlize Theron-status actor sans Fassbender(who is a holdover from the previous film) but right now, all is well for me. Long live Prometheus.

It may be very romantic of me to assume that Covenant will still retain a high degree of intelligence(Prometheus-y), and that the two succeeding two entries will follow suit and be even deeper.

Thanks for sharing this. Right now I'm going through a lot of similar emotions watching the Prometheus sequel morph into an Alien prequel. I was not very excited about the Alien prequel until it became Prometheus, because imo Scott's talents are wasted continuing a franchise when he's so good at standalone movies. To me, Prometheus can be ranked right alongside Scott's other sci-fi movies. Right now I'm not feeling the Covenant hype at all. It's looking less and less like Prometheus and more and more like what I was afraid Prometheus was going to be. I even read the leaked Alien: Engineers script and felt like we dodged a bullet. There doesn't seem to be anything to gain by connecting Prometheus to Alien, except money. I'm having a hard time coping and keeping my enthusiasm up. Even if Covenant has some of the speculative and mythological dimension that Prometheus had, I think it will be irritating to see those scenes side-by-side with shower kills and the like. I think this movie is having a very difficult time finding a voice, gelling, cohering, however you want to put it, which is why the test screening reports are all for wildly different cuts of the movie. I'm trying not to go off too much, but I'm grappling with some seriously conflicted feelings.

PS. Also to Protozoid (elijah);

Glad to be here. I have to give credit to sevenlilxenos on IMDb (7Xenos here) for encouraging me to come on over.

Well, I'm glad. We need more level-headed Prometheus fans over here. I'm not doing a good job co-existing with all the people on this board who seem glad about the demise of Prometheus. The Covenant forum is increasingly just the Alien crowd who are happy to see the Prometheus stuff scaled back and have no empathy for Prometheus fans who might be crushed by what happened to the sequel. I dunno if you've read any spoilers, BB, but I'm not liking what I read at all.

to Protozoid/Elijah;
- Some personal ways with how I deal with being a movie forum junkie. This only applies to me of course so no criticism of others is intended.
A. I do not watch trailers.
B. I keep my reading about spoilers of the upcoming film to a minimum.
Why?
Pre release publicity/trailers are often misleading.
And spoilers imo hurt the movie experience.
I just stay out of that if I can. I almost know nothing about the details of the Covenant production and that's on purpose.
- And I never go on a movie's board before the release of the film.
I will not be on the Covenant forum until after I see the film.
That's how I deal with the prerelease emotion.

- Second; as you wrote;

'I'm not doing a good job co-existing with all the people on this board who seem glad about the demise of Prometheus."

I don't know what the "demise of 'Prometheus'" means.
Keep in mind that David talks as much about the Engineers and their motives as anyone else in that film.
Shaw was a dreamer.
Weyland was foolish.
David understood the Engineer language/writing and technology better than any crew member.
And David stated several times that there is no magical answer for why the Engineers did what they did. They create and they destroy.
It's a concept in philosophy and religion. If that is what the viewer is left with, then that is not a flaw with "Prometheus" imo.
- It's Ridley being Ridley. "Blade Runner" has similar mysteries.
He's said for years that the Space Jockeys were warlike and they were involved in ancient, unknown conflicts.
Imo, David's view is closer to Scott's thinking about the Space Jockeys / Engineers.   

Anyway, if someone emotionally doesn't like "Prometheus", that's their subjective personal taste which is their privilege.
- In terms of objective criteria; "Prometheus" made plenty of money. It got decent Rotten Tomatoes scores. And its IMDb score is higher than any Alien or AVP movie after "Aliens".
- No negative comment by anyone removes those facts.   

* Elijah; after IMDb and the nonsense that I (and you) endured there, this site has been a piece of cake for me.
It's closely moderated and the folks here know the franchise.
I keep in mind, I can't defend a movie until I see it.
So, I'll bide my time, watch the new film, and then I'll cruise over to the Covenant board. 

Imo at least. ;-)