"Entry of the Gods Into Valhalla" meaning?

[Enoch]

...What Enoch does is massively flesh-out and re-interpret the story told in Genesis 6:1, explaining that the €˜sons of God€™ were in actual fact a group of 200 soon-to-be fallen angels (led by the Satan-like Samazya) who were so enamored with the women of our world that they came to Earth to procreate with mankind. Their offspring were the giants known as the Nephilim, who were destroyed by the Old Testament god Yahweh in the great flood. And how does this relate to events In Prometheus? For one, the non-canonical Book of Enoch would massively influence the dogma of Catholicism when it came to developing theories on the nature of angels and demons: with the Church Fathers interpreting verses of Isaiah and Ezekiel to signify that Satan was once a high-ranking cherub or seraph (similarly in Islam El Shaitan was once a djinn known as Iblis). Secondly, and like the Greek myth of Prometheus, the book is all about forbidden knowledge. In Prometheus, David- who represents the apex of human creativity born of a miniature echo of the Engineer€™s own act of creation- soaks up the knowledge left by the Engineers, just as in Enoch humankind laps up the forbidden knowledge handed to them by Samazya€™s troupe of fallen angels... in particular an angel known as Azazyel- who teaches mankind the art of making weapons, and women the art of using cosmetics. This motif of utilising forbidden knowledge learned from those who came before, and its often dire consequences, is pronounced in Prometheus. David€™s trials with the Engineer€™s black liquid- which stem from Weyland€™s self-centred self-seeking quest for eternal life- has disastrous consequences for the entire crew of the ship.

[oduodu]

The black monolith in SO 2001 is definitely analogous to the black goo far as I am concerned.

Nice thread OP 

[Enoch]

Covenant opening scene music



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkOiKy6sXfM

My favourite part of Götterdämmerung

The title (Götterdämmerung) is a translation into German of the Old Norse phrase Ragnarök, which in Norse mythology refers to a prophesied war among various beings and gods that ultimately results in the burning, immersion in water, and renewal of the world. However, as with the rest of the Ring, Wagner's account diverges significantly from his Old Norse sources.

[Immortan Jonesy]

Also my theory

I think there has been some very subtle (almost hidden) clues about goo in Prometheus:


I made tons of images like this one, trying to
analyse some possible hints on goo origin...

I imagine this thing as something as mysterious and incomprehensible as black monoliths from "2001 a space odyssey"

Me too...

The Angel carrying the egg (Under the proto Alien) could be a representation of the Space Jockey piloting his Juggernaut, in order to transport the weapon to some destination (Angel of Death)...and the primordial monster (on the top) seems to be the origin of everything. Good job...

[oduodu]

@Enoch

Yes I assume the know how was taught to mankind after they were banished from heaven. I sometimes wonder why God would have allowed  it.

So are the engineers the fallen angels and the xenomorph the nephilim?  Are the xenomorphs  the concentrated form of nephilim spirits seeking bodies to live in?

[Immortan Jonesy]

The nephilim according to one of those 3 books I mentioned are the children of the fallen angels who was created when they mated with earth woman. These nephilim also  had souls and spirits as men and angels do. However God decided (according to aforementioned books) that they shall not have everlasting life ( which the fallen angels desired for their  children the nephilim) and instructed his (good) angels to spread dissent hatred amongst them so that should kill each and not live past 500 years. Since they died their spirits were released and seeks bodies to live in. So they (I assume the fallen angels) created hybrid creatures - cloned DNA mixtures of different creature (like goats mixed with horse for example ) that had no soul so that the nephilim spirits could enter into it bring their own soul into it.

Apparently due to this God brought the flood over the earth to destroy them all. So If  Valhalla is to be considered and gods enter into it then the fallen angels definitely can be gods and Valhalla is probably their abode prior to being banished.

According to one of the books 90 percent of the fallen angels were bound in chambers in darkness inside the earth where they are to be kept for the day of judgement. So only 10 percent is allowed to roam while they seek to re-establish their offspring  previous glory.

The bible says Lucifer was perfect in beauty. Wow he must have been something to look at. There are also reports that he had musical instruments organs  inside him that could produce music for the glorification of God. So he became stubborn of heart and decided he wanted to get on God' s throne and was thrown out. He took a third of the angels with him.

I guess the music industry and the worship of good looks is satan' s fault. And the adoration of woman.

Well that's what I heard anyway.

So if you hear start hearing rumours of hybrids - transhumanism  - talks of  clones - then we should maybe start to wonder how much of those tales are the truth.

Well, Engineers like Music...



Back on topic...perhaps the Engineers cannot reproduce themselves through sex, maybe they came to Earth in order to do experiments in human women. Or maybe they are creating hybrids in order to play to be God...as in Frankenstein.



Whatever the case, they must be using forbidden technology for their plans, reason why they were expelled from Valhalla (aka Paradise).

But also, we can not forget that Valhalla is a place where the gods are preparing themselves for the battle of Ragnarök...



Now, in the context of Engineers ... is an event of the ancient past? or something that will happen in the future?

[Enoch]

Interestingly in Wagner's Twilight (Gotterdammerung), Gods' caste is destroyed in fire, that's pretty similar to leaked  photos of burned engineers
Who burned those Engineers and why?

REMINDER:

Ridley about Covenant

"What if you could meet God but God turned out to be the Devil?" Ridley on Alien Paradise Lost now Alien Covenant "Have you ever read Paradise Lost, by Milton? In a funny kind of way, it's an interesting basis for the darkness of [Prometheus 2]. Where the good-looking guy, who is evil as shit (Satan), gets all the girls and goes to the nightclubs (Ridley is referring to the fact that Satan story is the main part of Milton's epic). The other guy, who is not quite as good-looking (so God is not good loking???), is boring as hell and stays home. So in a funny kind of way, we used that as the basis for it, it'll be Alien: Paradise Lost (now Covenant). Which is very spooky...

There will be hints of supreme entity!

[Immortan Jonesy]

It must have been a superior force to them what burned them alive. There are several scenarios:

a) A higher entity (or a powerful civilization) kill them.

b) There was a civil war between two factions of Engineers: angels of life and the angels of death)

c) There was a plague, an epidemic of biblical proportions. Perhaps something about the Black goo.

d) The most boring explanation of all, a natural disaster like in Pompeii...

But whatever the answer, the second question remains: why? was a punishment, it was sabotage, was the war?



There is another possible scenario: they are not Engineers. This gives us two possibilities:

1) This sequence occurs on Earth, during an ancient past with a human civilization (as Sodom and Gomorrah)

or

2) Engineers created other humans on another planet. Perhaps they were the first ones, and they were created in Paradise. So Adam and Eve were Aliens 

[Enoch]

a + c
I think both things at the same time.

David and Shaw are on that planet for almost 10 years.
Where is Shaw? Why did they stayed there at the first place
if the place is desolate and dead (still green and like Paradise!)?

Something happened between Shaw and David, maybe Shaw abandoned
David on that planet and she left to find GOD? Maybe she ll play major
role in the final movie.

[The Alien Predator]

Back on topic...perhaps the Engineers cannot reproduce themselves through sex, maybe they came to Earth in order to do experiments in human women. Or maybe they are creating hybrids in order to play to be God...as in Frankenstein.

That makes sense, angels themselves are genderless and have no genitalia.

This reminds me of an Alien novel titled Original Sin, which has the Space Jockey (before Prometheus was released), they were called "Mala'kak", I haven't read the book but apparently, they had a deal with an organization called Loki that would provide them with humans to experiment upon because they lacked the ability to reproduce by themselves.

And recently I think I saw people theorizing that Engineers create life because they lost the ability to propagate. So this is their way of studying reproduction.

You kind of do see their fascination with life, reproduction, sex etc. Their door openings can resemble a vulva, like the one seen on the Derelict. The Alien's head is a phallus. The new Facehuggers now have visible vaginas etc.

We don't know if they have genders, we haven't seen a female Engineer. Although the loincloth on the one in Prometheus does hint that there may be something there... but what if it's worn for decorative or ritualistic purposes? What if "it" had no instruments to reproduce with? So drinking the Black Goo was its way of spreading life.

And the reason we have something underneath our "loincloths" could've been done as some deliberate design from them, they had nothing under their cloths but they gave us a gift under ours. They do seem quite spiritual, creative and ritualistic.

I was gonna ask about the Nephilim but you fellas have covered it nicely.

Do you reckon there's still benevolent Engineers? The one we saw in Prometheus was a fallen angel while the ones with robes could've been the truly benevolent ones. The biomechanoids may have been the ones trying to tempt us to go to LV 223 (as seen in the cave painting) but then the robed ones may have been trying to warn us away from it (all the other civilization's artworks shown by Holloway and Shaw.)

We also see some other creations of theirs in Fire and Stone, the ones Ahab the Predator hunts. They seem to have been in better terms with their creators than we have though. The four armed red skinned primitives have cave paintings of Engineers and have yet to "sin" like we have. The bug-men who have a thriving and technological civilization haven't sinned as we see a statue of an Engineer standing tall and proud in their city street. Then we have this alien who is wearing full armour (we have no clue what it looks like) laying dead after being killed by Ahab, near it is an Engineer hologram.

So, to echo Shaw's words, just what did we do wrong and why did they change their minds? What did the other creations do to be spared? Aside from the four-armed men who are still in their very early stages, the bug-men and the armoured-men haven't wronged their makers in any way.

[oduodu]

@crazy shrimp

I think it happened in the past. But it does seem the engineers are in a hurry if I look at Bob's reactions.

I think it is more in line with a higher force stepping in and saying : hands off !! That's belongs to daddy !! No go play outside !! You bother me!! And finally after 6 times the rod of correction was elevated to the power of 6 and hence carnage.

[The Alien Predator]

I have also been thinking that the Arcturians mentioned in Aliens and being mentioned several times in the recent novels may also be Engineer creations.

They must look similar enough to us if humans are to find them attractive and not criticize those like Frost who had sex with them. And yet, the Arcturians are alien enough to have genders that are difficult to tell apart.

By the way, all this talk of a higher power interfering with and destroying Engineers reminds me of the

Spoiler

Drukathi in the recent Rage War trilogy, the huge ancient aliens long gone whose artifacts remain behind in the galaxy to prevent other civilizations from becoming too advanced. Their target in the year 2692 AD was mankind, and they succeeded in setting us back by five centuries.

[close]

Maybe something similar befell the Engineers, they were dabbling in sciences way ahead and beyond them?

[oduodu]

@the alien predator

I have also hoped that the were engineers that was benevolent ar at least a benevolent force above them that isn't only about destruction and wrath and fire etc.

I have also been thinking that the Arcturians mentioned in Aliens and being mentioned several times in the recent novels may also be Engineer creations.

They must look similar enough to us if humans are to find them attractive and not criticize those like Frost who had sex with them. And yet, the Arcturians are alien enough to have genders that are difficult to tell apart.

By the way, all this talk of a higher power interfering with and destroying Engineers reminds me of the

Spoiler

Drukathi in the recent Rage War trilogy, the huge ancient aliens long gone whose artifacts remain behind in the galaxy to prevent other civilizations from becoming too advanced. Their target in the year 2692 AD was mankind, and they succeeded in setting us back by five centuries.

[close]

Maybe something similar befell the Engineers, they were dabbling in sciences way ahead and beyond them?

Yep. That's always been my take on it. I could never accept them being killed by their own creations. It must be something they messed with that they have no complete understanding of.

I also think the landlord is looking for them . They be more than just late for the monthly rent.

" Honey have you seen the Ferrari ? Where the Porsche 911?  Where is my hunting rifle !!!  WHY that little bastards"


Daddy gone a hunting .......

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

As intriguing and interesting as your ideas and theories are I really hope you're all wrong because I'm not psyched at all about the  thematic content and direction this movie is going. It's just way too much Ancient Aliens and Chariot of the Gods for my taste. Completely demystifies the Alien and the universe we were presented in the original movies.

Prometheus was such a letdown in that department.

I really hope that Scott is going throw everything on its head and kind of transform all this Ancient Aliens cliche stuff into something unique and worthwhile. My biggest fear though is that he is going demote the Alien into just another creation in a long series of creation created by the Engineers and their masters/creators (whoever they may be).

Even so, I must compliment you for this great thread. Lot's of fun reading. Keep up the good work.

[Enoch]

@SpreadEagleBeagle

Ancient Aliens cliche stuff can be worthwhile. Well, read Lovecraft, or maybe he is also cliche?
I dont expect revelatory movie, all we discussed here is just an analysis of certain metaphors
Covenant would possibly contain, nothing more...

Key to success is twist, mystery, original atmospheric/psychological horror, and thats what we all want.
Not monster in tin-can just killing, we want deep backstory of the Xeno creature, not revelatory backstory but
story that will amplify the mystery even more, not only mystery but the dread behind the creature itself.