Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4

Started by Corporal Hicks, Jun 30, 2015, 12:11:44 PM

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Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4 (Read 39,666 times)

Engineer

You're still overlooking the obvious. The movie tells us and shows us that the predator IS tracking him... They just don't show/say how. So because it's not shown/explained explicitly in the movie, we're just supposed to assume it can't??? Or call it bad writing because they left us a little bit of a mystery???

The trajectory comment was just an example that the helmet has some computational power (maybe the hard drive is in its wrist gauntlet). The helmet could just as easily be doing any number of things behind the scenes to help track or locate. Other light spectrums could even help provide data to the helmet; it would still receive that light even if the preferred display is thermal for the predator.

And on the train those weren't exactly innocent bystanders; they were all armed and brandishing their weapons which made them viable prey in the moment. The predator obviously wasn't there because it liked trains; it was following jerry/Leona. It could have been watching from a distance, or standing right next to them cloaked as they boarded the train. Who knows? They don't show us how; if they had, the scene wouldn't have been a surprise anyway so that's likely an artifact of screen-writing (wouldn't be the first time).

And you mean to tell me it's NOT toying with him, and it was merely coincidence that Danny's necklace was hanging from a tree for harrigan to find in the cemetery while he was visiting Danny's grave?!? Then I stand corrected (not really).

Ultimately, this is NOTHING like the alien 3 'magic egg' controversy. There really isn't any good explanation for that debate! But this whole predator tracking thing has nothing illogical or 'magical' behind it; the movie tells us it can, therefore it can, and there are dozens of plausible ways it could. It's not a 'the predator can just because' explanation, and it's definitely not the same logic as 'it's using magic' either.

PS. Don't even get me started on the hologram maps/displays they've been showing us in those God-awful AvP movies! I'm sure it's just for our benefit, but a hologram map in visual light would be useless to a predator using thermal vision (unless the hologram is also a 'heatogram' or its switching to another vision mode). I find that ridiculous! But I can overlook it, by the same assumption; there's something technologically I don't see or know about going on!

HuDaFuK

Quote from: Engineer on Jul 07, 2015, 06:39:26 PMAnd on the train those weren't exactly innocent bystanders; they were all armed and brandishing their weapons which made them viable prey in the moment.

Someone (I think Harrigan) specifically says they were all packing, so yeah.

Xenomorphine

Quote from: Engineer on Jul 07, 2015, 06:39:26 PM
You're still overlooking the obvious. The movie tells us and shows us that the predator IS tracking him... They just don't show/say how. So because it's not shown/explained explicitly in the movie, we're just supposed to assume it can't??? Or call it bad writing because they left us a little bit of a mystery???

Have Predators been shown - over the course of between three to five films - that they have something which can constantly locate and track even one individual, let alone several, over an entire human city? No. No, they have not. The closest we've seen to that is a huge mechanical flying drone. That's why the 'hand-wave' method falls flat on its face for me. :)

Others can believe they can, of course. All I've said is that I don't personally buy it.

QuoteThe trajectory comment was just an example that the helmet has some computational power (maybe the hard drive is in its wrist gauntlet). The helmet could just as easily be doing any number of things behind the scenes to help track or locate. Other light spectrums could even help provide data to the helmet; it would still receive that light even if the preferred display is thermal for the predator.

Which would be great, except it's never shown to be doing that. It never highlights Harrigan/Jerry/Leona/Danny in any way, whatsoever. It never even gives so much as an audio cue - and every time it's watching him, it's doing so with thermal (and all the other modes of vision we're shown are just as awful for identifying individuals in a crowd).

QuoteAnd on the train those weren't exactly innocent bystanders; they were all armed and brandishing their weapons which made them viable prey in the moment. The predator obviously wasn't there because it liked trains; it was following jerry/Leona. It could have been watching from a distance, or standing right next to them cloaked as they boarded the train. Who knows? They don't show us how; if they had, the scene wouldn't have been a surprise anyway so that's likely an artifact of screen-writing (wouldn't be the first time).

You've just illustrated exactly why, for me, coincidence is way more easier to believe. :) Takes the fewest leaps of faith for them to have simply been caught up in an already-violent situation.

I'm not sure everyone on the train was armed (I thought a lot of them Leona was herding to the exit were unarmed), but I'd have to re-watch it.

QuoteAnd you mean to tell me it's NOT toying with him, and it was merely coincidence that Danny's necklace was hanging from a tree for harrigan to find in the cemetery while he was visiting Danny's grave?!? Then I stand corrected (not really).

That's the only real clue it might be doing something along those lines, yes. But I'm still waiting for a plausible method for them to be doing this locating/tracking of all four characters, simultaneously, over the entire city, which Predators have access to.

Otherwise, this effectively all comes down to a 'because they can' argument.

QuoteUltimately, this is NOTHING like the alien 3 'magic egg' controversy. There really isn't any good explanation for that debate! But this whole predator tracking thing has nothing illogical or 'magical' behind it; the movie tells us it can, therefore it can, and there are dozens of plausible ways it could. It's not a 'the predator can just because' explanation, and it's definitely not the same logic as 'it's using magic' either.

I'm still waiting for one. :)

Honestly, given what we've seen, on screen, they have no plausible way to be doing it. Same way as there's no plausible way to explain the egg, without doing a whole lot of 'what if' mental gymnastics.

If they couldn't track Dutch and they couldn't track Royce, it's going to be a damned sight harder to do in a city, not easier.

Harrigan is wearing some kind of locator? The mask isn't showing it. They can smell him? Harder to do in a city, not less - and they didn't smell Dutch or Royce.

QuotePS. Don't even get me started on the hologram maps/displays they've been showing us in those God-awful AvP movies! I'm sure it's just for our benefit, but a hologram map in visual light would be useless to a predator using thermal vision (unless the hologram is also a 'heatogram' or its switching to another vision mode). I find that ridiculous! But I can overlook it, by the same assumption; there's something technologically I don't see or know about going on!

Aaaaand that's the very logic I'm talking about. :)

You realise Plot Device X doesn't work (mostly because the writer(s) were thinking in human terms), so, you have to overlook it or think up plausible alternatives. But it's not necessary to be entertained by the story - it's just there, hovering in the background as something unexplained.

It's also why I can't buy the serial killer in 'Predators' was abducted because of his history, as the creatures wouldn't have realistically known about that, either. I could believe it was for another reason or that he got caught up in something and they decided to chuck him in anyway, though. The BSPs didn't seem to care about 'honour' stuff.

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 07, 2015, 08:27:22 PM
It's also why I can't buy the serial killer in 'Predators' was abducted because of his history, as the creatures wouldn't have realistically known about that, either. I could believe it was for another reason or that he got caught up in something and they decided to chuck him in anyway, though. The BSPs didn't seem to care about 'honour' stuff.

Predators makes a huge deal of the mystery behind Edwin and how he fits in with the group and presents it to you as him being a monster in his own right, a right that would require actual observation and tracking.

The belief that the Predators are capable of tracking and observing individuals is far less of a reach than coincidental encounters. Especially as the films tell you this.

The Alien Predator

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 07, 2015, 01:43:35 AM
If Harrigan was somehow being tracked by unknown senses in the mask, then why was it impossible to apply those same abilities to Dutch? That's where all this falls down. If you presume these other abilities exist, then you have to come up with a reason they weren't being employed against Dutch. The fact they weren't, heavily suggests that thermal is their primary and only means to typically locate/track a human target.

Because the first Predator bought a pre-owned mask at Wal-Mart while the second Predator ordered a premium quality Bio-Mask from Amazon, brand new.

Plus he forgot to install the cool apps that City Hunter had.

:P


But seriously, with that way of thinking, you might as well ask "why didn't the Predator switch vision modes while tracking Dutch"? He probably had a lower quality mask or hadn't earned the right to more vision modes.

In AvP, the Predators periodically switch and alter vision modes to keep up to date on their surroundings, how was Scar able to realize Weyland was suddenly sick and decided to look further with X-ray modes?

Plus in Predators, their thermal vision is very detailed, even their "normal" vision looks detailed. You brushed it off as "it doesn't matter", well, it does, special effects improve, and so do Predator visions. Sure, in the 80's they had limitations, but now, you see just how detailed their vision is.

How do you explain the Predator suddenly being so agile and able to jump between branches without falling? Could you jump around in that vision? Of course not because you didn't evolve with it.

Even with our decent vision, we stumble and bump into things. I have yet to see a Predator crash into a tree in the middle of a leap...

Their vision isn't THAT bad dude. I play through AvP in Predator vision for fun through the entire game and I can tell individual Colonial Marine designs apart. If I can do it, they sure as hell can because that's their natural vision.

But overall, you do raise some points. Their vision isn't perfect, but it's not bad either. They can notice details in the environment, plants moving around, rocks being thrown and upon closer inspection, people. It's true that at a distance they would be hard to be seen, but even our vision is crap at a distance and only upon closer inspection do we see finer details. And don't forget that Predator masks have this fascinating ability to zoom onto things at a distance.  :)

Also take into consideration that Predators have lots of artwork in their ships and pyramids, what is the point of that if they can't see it so well? Also why do the Predators bother with marking themselves? Or their masks? And doesn't City Hunter appear to have tribal tattoos of some kind? Again, no point of those for a creature that can't see and appreciate colour or fine details. That's why any Predator art or sculpture lacks any colour, their vision is more focused on the detail of the environment.

I think you may have looked a bit too much into the special effects of a 80's and early 90's movie. Yet as the effects improve, you see more details in their vision too. Otherwise, it's just gonna be a contradiction, "how comes these Predators see better than the last ones? How comes this one switches masks while the last one didn't?"

So, like it or not, Predators see a lot better than what the camera shows. Or why would they even bother improving their vision with each new movie?

Engineer

No... That's not the logic you're talking about. This is what doesn't make any sense to me: you say the predator pov is meant to be taken literally as what the predator sees because that's what the director used in the film; yet you ignore the events and dialog that the director included which point to the predator tracking harrigan, rather than taking all that literally too. Explain to me why we should take the predator pov as literal, but not the events/dialogue?

You're absolutely right about avp; the directors there were thinking about it too much in human-terms... It looks snazzy on screen, but put some thought in and it doesn't make sense. We agree on that. But you're doing the same thing with the predator pov; thinking about it in human-terms. As I've already pointed out, as well as others, and most recently as Guan thwei pointed out:

the predator evolved that way, we didn't

Thermal doesn't translate well to visual light, and turns out looking liked color-coded blobs to us, but you can never truly know what the predator really sees... It's too 'alien' for us. The purpose of the predator pov in This respect was to let us (the audience) know that it sees in thermal. Otherwise, we would have been lost when Dutch used mud to hide himself.

And practically speaking, special effects just weren't good enough in the 80s/90s to provide the crystal clear clarity you're longing for.

And yes, they have shown a predator tracking its prey through multiple movies... As far back as predator 2 at the very least, The entire movie emphasizes it without showing us how (because 'how' wasn't important for the plot)... And ultimately, the lack of a 'how' does not equate as evidence that they could not.

Again, the logic was never "because they can" it's "because the movie showed us they could/did." The whole technology/magic quote was to suggest that just because it seems like magic to you doesn't mean it is, just an advanced technology which none of us have any understanding of, and in this case we don't understand it because it's never explicitly shown/described. When you watch any movie with faster than lightspeed travel involved, what explanation do you provide to counteract the time dilation problem or the cosmic speed limit problem? They never show us or explain to us how they've solved those problems, but for the sake of the movie you take it as it comes and believe they can because they did it, right? That's the same concept. They must have some technology which we don't understand (yet) which allows for this, but it wasn't pivotal to the plot of the movie so the details were left out (or filled in with scientific jargon to sound official). It's common practice in sci fi... Alien is guilty of it, terminator is guilty of it, avatar is guilty of it, in fact I don't think I can find ANY sci fi movie that isn't guilty of it to some extent... Even the first predator is guilty of it; how did the predator manage to cloak itself in the first place? Answer: an advanced technology we do not understand...

blood.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jul 07, 2015, 03:15:42 PM
Rather than do a point-by-point thing, I'm just going to do an unnecessarily lengthy illustrated guide. :)

Spoiler
COULD THEY HAVE OTHER MYSTERY SENSES?

Yes, it's possible. On the other hand, there's zero indication of this. We see the new weapons and vision-modes being employed (vision-modes it never uses when it's looking at Harrigan, which means they consider themal of more use in observing him). Yes, it could be doing all kinds of other unexplained hand-waved stuff, but without any indications, we might as well say it's using magic. Until we're shown Predators have a way to accomplish a task, then we can't say they must do it.

And, again, we see what a Predator does with Dutch. That's one guy in an entire jungle. Being in a city like LA vastly multiplies the problems for the Predator, not its prey.

TRAJECTORY AND TRAINS:

Tracking trajectory won't help with the example of the train. It isn't about knowing a vehicle's heading. It's about knowing where the targets within it are. Was an invisible Predator literally going through the ticket gates and hanging around in a massive crowd of people? Not bothering to attack them because it... Liked trains? What was stopping it? Bystanders doesn't count, as it obviously didn't care about them when it ripped the carriage open. Why didn't anyone else notice a big shimmering creature on the underground platform? :)

We already saw what their preferred vision mode was (and the one it was using when it encountered Jerry/Leona) when looking at vehicles - and it's terrible at trying to look through the surface metal. In fact, metal is great at radiating all that sweltering LA heat, so...

PRIORITY TARGETS:

So, let's say Harrigan and his friends were all considered priority targets. Targets the mask can somehow locate and track at extreme range. If that's the case, then why are there no visual indications of this? The mask clearly isn't doing its job properly! :) Shouldn't they be getting highlighted in some way? Shouldn't there be a special marker placed over them, so that the user knows the primary targets have been found?

Nothing of the sort occurs. Nothing, at all. The mask isn't assigning any additional processing power to locating or tracking them. This shouldn't just be applying to Harrigan, but Jerry/Leona/Danny - and it doesn't happen at any time the Predator encounters them. Not once. They're treated just like all the other dozens of people it's also going after for daring to walk around armed.

Harrigan's told it's toying with him? Yes, because that would be a valid assumption if the killer was human. If the killer was doing things like reading newspaper clippings and stuff like that, like human serial killers do. It's not.

So, for the sake of argument, let's go into the Predator's world, itself... Let's look at those same scenes in the film from the perspective of the Predator.

Here's what the Predator sees...

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0004.jpg

This is the problem it will encounter every single time it wants to find Harrigan. Every time it spends a while finding a valid, armed target, it has to spend away from not only Harrigan, but his associates (all of whom will frequently split up). Every time it tracks down a target it does want to kill and spends a while arranging the best approach, before deciding to head back Harrigan's way. Every time it goes to the slaughterhouse to eat and decides it needs to go back to Harrigan. Every time it goes back to base to spend ages cleaning its new trophies, going to the toilet or sleeping, before deciding it wants to gut one of Harrigan's friends.

"Hey, guys, just going out to find that dude I want to-"

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0005.jpg

"Shit! Where is he?! Clack-clack-clack-clack-clack... Oh, I know! I might have seen him go in that big, massive building. I'll stake it out, dude. I'll will totally stake it-"

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0006.jpg

"F**king windows! Why can't I see through them?! F**k this shit, I'm finding someone I can actually see..."

And this is why any attempt for the Predators to find Harrigan, Jerry, Leona or Danny, will hit a brick wall. There are miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and... Of these. Of big, massive buildings which might as well have 'ANTI-PREDATOR BUNKER' written on the side. :)

And it could be travelling anywhere over the entire city. Look at those pictures. See how the problem gets worse, the further away it's looking? That's because heat disperses over distance and, especially in high temperatures (like those of the film), one heat source will bleed into another and get merged into the surrounding heated air.

Even if Harrigan were standing out on the balcony of one of those buildings, the Predator would still have a damned hard time trying to see his location - and this is assuming it both has a clear line-of-sight and happened to be looking in exactly the same direction.

Being a Predator is hard, you guys... That's why they're always grumpy.

But Harrigan and the rest could easily be picked out from above, right?

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0007.jpg

In a jungle, yeah. In LA, where they're surrounded by lots of similar humanoid shapes? The Predator doesn't just have to find a humanoid target, like in the first film. It has to figure out which ones they happen to be. That vision-mode is clearly great for finding human targets. We can see them very easily. But it's also clearly rubbish at figuring out who is who.

And here comes Harrigan! Here comes that number one awesome trophy dude! He'll obviously stand out!

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0101.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0107.jpg

Well, kind of... Not really.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0146.jpg

Here he is by a dead gang-member. The only real differences are some different splodges of colour. There isn't anything which makes him look different. And what's he even done, from the Predator's perspective, which makes him any different to, say, Hawkins and the rest? If you were a Predator and had just seen this, would you honestly feel there's a point in prolonging the hunt over several days when you could just kill him dead? How about if you're a reckless Predator who's impulsive, like this one is meant to be? Would that make you more patient or less so?

OK, so, how about if the Predator has a fair chance and is looking at his face? Surely that makes a difference? Maybe we're taking away some kind of key visual advantage.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0224.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0229.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0232.jpg

Apparently not.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0235.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0286.jpg

And standing him alongside another human figure apparently makes it even worse, not better. The Predator is going to - repeatedly - track him down through the city, based on this? Then it's going to be hunting just about anybody with a gun... Maybe that's why it took so long! It couldn't figure out who Harrigan actually was and had been attributing just about any violent gesture it saw to the one guy. :)

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0564.jpg

But when he wears a hat! Oh, when he wears a hat, it is totally on!

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0664.jpg

Just a shame it isn't permanently on his head... :(

Jerry, though? Harrigan's friends must be more obvious, right?

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0733.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0737.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0744.jpg

"I don't want to sound racist, but you humans all look the same... :("

Which brings up an interesting question. Just how close does it have to get before some vaguely recognisable facial details are present?

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0747.jpg

Kicking-in-the-balls close, it would seem.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0768.jpg

Then again...

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0287.jpg

And vehicles are really shitty if you want to find out the identity of someone specific on the inside. This is the problem you'd have if you somehow knew your targets had boarded a train or, say, just a car.

How about the alternative vision-modes we know they have?

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0660.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0948.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0949.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0950.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray0967.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray1008.jpg

And that is the reason they prefer thermal. :)

As we can see, they're all great if being used to track targets, in general. But what they all lack is the fine visual definition for identifying specific individuals.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray1042.jpg

And Harrigan still isn't being identified as a priority by the mask. The only reason the Predator seems to perk up, is because it recognises his voice - and that's all its own doing. The mask is not highlighting him as an important target, Terminator-style.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray1078.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray1091.jpg

And he's still not showing any kind of detail necessary for facial recognition.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/predator2/bluray/orig_bluray1116.jpg

And when the Predator isn't using its mask, even right up close, the guy still looks like a generic trace of heat. The Predator can see he's a target, alive and humanoid. Visually-speaking, that's all.

Being a Predator is hard, you guys... Really, really hard.
[close]

:o
Spoiler
tl;dr
[close]

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 07, 2015, 03:38:29 PM
I get it - the film doesn't show us how it tracks.

k thx

The Alien Predator

Engineer points out some good things too.

Predator minds simply process their vision in their own way. Your human mind is confused by this, but to them it could be very clear. Remember, these are alien minds so try not to anthropomorphise the Predators by projecting yourself into that visual spectrum, Xenomorphine.

If you think them tracking one person is so hard, how the hell did they make their tech?

Forget "make", even if they stole it, you HAVE to be able to "see" what you are using right? How do they read their writing? How do they see their holograms? Plus stealing tech can only go so far, you have to get to the point where you have to replicate it right? Good luck with that if you only see "blobs of red" in a 80's style effects blue and green blurry as hell background. Good luck figuring out particles, good luck analysing cellular science, good luck researching molecules for advanced tech, none of these things as far as I know generate any heat. Good luck finding the medical tools needed to treat your wounds if you only see blotches of red.

Also Predator blood for some reason appears bright green in their natural unmasked vision just like in our own which is a bit odd. Truth is, it's some kind of alien vision. Even we can slightly see in the IR spectrum, for instance, when some metal begins to glow red hot, if I'm not mistaken, that red heat is IR as hot things are "red" in both visible and IR spectrums and anything glowing white is the hottest. So if that's correct, then it's no surprise that Predators may catch a little more than just heat (hence them being able to see their blood as bright green while to us it is bioluminescent bright green.)

Notice how too much heat kinda blinds a Predator's heat based vision just how too much light blinds a human's visible light based vision? When you think about it, we are really similar in the way our eyes work and how our neurons perceive this information. Remember, the "vision" you see is what your brain is projecting, that is how some illusions happen, when the brain struggles to put together the information your eyes give it.

So a Predator's eyes pick up the heat, the brain analyses it. And to me, Predators are very intelligent and cunning predatory animals, so they gotta be able to pick between prey, even for food, pick the injured, weak, sick or in a sporty hunt, pick something challenging etc. They gotta be able to tell things apart by nature just like lions hunting a group of prey animals. All predators have the ability to pick and choose, it's the whole purpose of most predators having forward facing eyes, for the sake of focusing on one thing.

Engineer

anthropomorphise... Good word usage, Guan! :-)

Ok, so here's a consideration. In my opinion, the primary source material for canonical information or filling story elements is always the movie. A secondary source would be the script. I don't have access to the script; I tried downloading it here but it wouldn't open for me (probably because I tried with my phone). So the next best thing would be a tertiary source, a movie novilization, which I DO happen to have.

In the novel, which was written based on the script and movie itself, they try to portray the predator pov by describing what the predator sees, hears and thinks. Those portions are written in a different font to emphasize that it's a different view point. The novel's predator pov describes the predator distinctly focusing on harrigan because he seems to be more worthy prey based on his actions. It also describes it using different vision filters and magnifications to focus in on harrigan and block everything else out. How did it do this? With some sort of "telepathic" connection with the helmet and its sensors. I found this within the first 18 pages... The rest of the book probably has dozens of other examples.

Is this proof enough?

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#99
I didn't wanna bring the novel into it because, you know, it's not the film, but yes, the book makes it abundantly clear the Predator is specifically following Harrigan. It even goes so far as to point out it deliberately follows and targets Leona and Jerry on the subway in order to antagonise him, because it's been following them collectively closely enough to know they are friends/comrades.

But even forgetting the book, Xenomorphine's argument falls apart when you consider the scene where the Predator leaves Harrigan Danny's necklace at the cemetery. That could only happen if the creature had deliberately followed him there. Unless you're seriously trying to suggest it's just randomly leaving the necklace hanging in a tree for the lulz, and out of all the trees in the city it just miraculously happens to pick one a) near Danny's grave, and b) while Harrigan is stood thirty feet away.

Engineer

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 09, 2015, 03:02:04 PM
I didn't wanna bring the novel into it because, you know, it's not the film, but yes, the book makes it abundantly clear the Predator is specifically following Harrigan. It even goes so far as to point out it deliberately follows and targets Leona and Jerry on the subway in order to antagonise him, because it's been following them collectively closely enough to know they are friends/comrades.

But even forgetting the book, Xenomorphine's argument falls apart when you consider the scene where the Predator leaves Harrigan Danny's necklace at the cemetery. That could only happen if the creature had deliberately followed him there. Unless you're seriously trying to suggest it's just randomly leaving the necklace hanging in a tree for the lulz, and out of all the trees in the city it just miraculously happens to pick one a) near Danny's grave, and b) while Harrigan is stood thirty feet away.

Agreed. Novel wasn't my first choice... :-)

The Alien Predator

Thanks, Engineer.  ;D

Both you and Huda show undeniable proof that the Predator is able to recognise and follow specific individuals,

Also thanks for mentioning that bit from the novel. I always had a feeling some Predator tech was telepathically linked to their wearer. Such advanced tech... how did a creature that can only see blobs of red even make such things? This alone proves Predators see much more than what a 80's style thermal camera can show our 'visible spectrum' vision on screen.

Another thing that doesn't prove Xenomorphine's point is his constant mentioning of people moving in and out of the target's building, which would make them difficult to track. The same thing can be said for a human stalking the same target at a distance. People can vanish into a crowd very easily. Yet who says Predators only use vision? Lucrecia Borgia did mention that she had to mask her heat and use perfume to mask her pheromones in the game Concrete Jungle. Maybe this could've been another way Predators stalk? With pheromones? (Which were ironically used to track it as well   :laugh:)

The masks seem to have a tagging ability of some sort, Sorry to bring up AvP R, but didn't the Predalien appear in yellow as opposed to the other Aliens being green? I don't fully remember the details. I think one of the Predators saw the Abomination and shot it, then sends this whole video recording to Wolf who no doubt also 'tagged' the Abomination to more easily recognize it even at a distance.

In conclusion, it's alien tech, an alien mind and an alien vision, Xenomorphine. We wouldn't understand it anyway even if it hit us in the face. It's like trying to explains how Xenomorphs grow so fast, or how they breathe with lips closed, there could be so many explanations that would then become disagreements followed by constant debates.

Engineer

The Novel also indicates the predator was able to see through harrigans car frame and focus on him inside during the opening gun fight, as well as list off his vital statistics off to the side of the display then comparing that data to information in the helmet's memory banks to identify the target (biometrics).

I did catch a mistake in the novel though... On page 2, it states the year is 1995. Lol

The Alien Predator

Really cool stuff man. Predators have some really good scanning and sensor technology available to them.

And lol at the mistake. I saw some funny ones in the recent Titan Books trilogy such as Pulse Rifles suddenly becoming Plasma Rifles.  :laugh:

The_Angry_Barbarian

The_Angry_Barbarian

#104
Gotta say I think for Predator 4 to be a success we need Arnie back in the franchise as an older Dutch. I for one think Dutch should be hunting down the Predator perhaps becoming obsessed with a desire to both learn more about his adversary and get revenge upon the species for the deaths of his comrades particularly as he knows they hunt humans for sport. The Predator franchise I think needs to kind of look into some of the possible ideas for Alien 5 with the whole return of Ripley thing. We kind of need a few nods back to the original as well as taking the franchise in a different direction (like Prometheus did but not in the same way those films went).

For me it needs to be something completely new I don't want a rehash of the original which Predators basically was, there needs to be a more expansive story, tell us or even show us something about these creatures we don't already know and perhaps do that in a way that has us wondering what the hell's gonna happen next. Finally as I said before we need Dutch back, Alien has Ripley and the strength of her character alone is why Alien and Aliens are such great stories (I wasn't a big fan or Alien 3 and Resurrection was just terrible in my opinion) so we need Dutch as a priority. Harrigan I thought was great in Predator 2 but as much as I'd like to see more of that character I don't think the franchise should do that just yet.

I like the idea of Dutch tracking down Yautja as it gives an ironic twist to the whole set up I mean the Predator has to be the main threat but having Dutch track one down and attempt to hunt it himself will probably not go completely to plan so that could be a fresh direction or even allude to what the Yautja might do to those that have succeeded against them and survived; I mean a prey species killing the hunter is going to attract attention. For some reason I would just love to see Dutch have a look of horror come across his face as he realises he has to deal with another Predator. As for what Predators did I think Shane Black needs to steer clear of it I mean it was an ok film but it was basically a wannabe version of the original which while entertaining at times is just not what I want from a Predator movie.

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