The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon

Started by Perfect-Organism, Nov 18, 2014, 10:44:01 PM

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The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon (Read 233,403 times)

TheBATMAN

Ugh, that's not for me personally.

I'm the opposite in many ways. I'm all for a galaxy that is devoid of life, save for the xenomorphs and their related creators/opponents. It makes them all the more mysterious and frightening. If there are other alien races out there, especially ones that we've made contact with and traded with, it just ruins some of the mysticism for me.  A large part of the appeal of this universe is how grounded and realistic it is and I'd rather all that kind of stuff stayed in Star Trek.

But that's just me.

The Alien Predator

It's a good thing that the franchise has the best of both worlds.

Fans who like their devoid of life, silent, grim, dark, cynical, scary, uncaring galaxy can still enjoy it.

And other fans will get the occasional mention or peek at another civilization trying to etch out a living in the very galaxy described in the sentence above and enjoy it too.

I think Tim Lebbon picked a smart move by saying it depends on where you are in space. We didn't discover Arcturians until probably the 2160's or 70's as there's no mention of anything in Out of the Shadows about this. That goes to show how far apart all intelligent life are.

Also, another thing that's very unique here is that we haven't actually seen any interactions between humans and these other races mentioned in the books, except Engineers and Predators. And speaking of Engineers, it's highly unlikely that Earth was their only petri dish.

And for me personally, adding some more races feels refreshing. I feel there's only so many stories you can tell with just Xenomorphs and Yautja before it gets repetitious. As a fan, I can watch millions of "Predator hunt on *insert world*" movies, but sometimes, I just wanna see a bit more.

Ultramorph

It would be pretty cool if Lebbon's 27th century got explored more, maybe in comics or something. Dark Star Trek sounds pretty cool to me. I like a middle ground where there are several alien races, but quite far apart from each other, separated by large swaths of dead space, and largely indifferent or hostile to each other. I like the idea of hinting that life used to be more common throughout space, until something big and bad happened.

RakaiThwei

Quote from: TheBATMAN on Dec 02, 2015, 06:53:01 PM
Ugh, that's not for me personally.

I'm the opposite in many ways. I'm all for a galaxy that is devoid of life, save for the xenomorphs and their related creators/opponents. It makes them all the more mysterious and frightening. If there are other alien races out there, especially ones that we've made contact with and traded with, it just ruins some of the mysticism for me.  A large part of the appeal of this universe is how grounded and realistic it is and I'd rather all that kind of stuff stayed in Star Trek.

But that's just me.

Agreed.. and if you ask me.. a universe like that is much more ominous than one that's just bursting with life like we see in Star Wars and Star Trek. I mean when I was reading the old EU and got the sense that the universe was devoid and only had sparse amounts of life, I got the impression that this was likely perhaps in cause to the Xenomorphs being spread around and killing many races. It made them more frightening, it gave the universe a sense of cynicism, hopelessness and danger.

Now we've got races who are chummy-chum-chum cheroo with us.

The Alien Predator

The Alien Predator

#904
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 02, 2015, 07:25:47 PM
It would be pretty cool if Lebbon's 27th century got explored more, maybe in comics or something. Dark Star Trek sounds pretty cool to me. I like a middle ground where there are several alien races, but quite far apart from each other, separated by large swaths of dead space, and largely indifferent or hostile to each other. I like the idea of hinting that life used to be more common throughout space, until something big and bad happened.

This pretty much sums up how I see the Alien universe. Maybe life has its cycles where at some point there are more and then something happens and then there are few.

Like on Earth, where mass extinctions reduce things to a few.


Quote from: RakaiThwei on Dec 02, 2015, 08:53:20 PM
Now we've got races who are chummy-chum-chum cheroo with us.

What's wrong with that?

Technically, wasn't Machiko chum enough with the Predators to be accepted by them and allowed to live in their clan despite the Predator's suicidal protection to keep their tech out of human hands? Wasn't Alex the same with Scar to the point that he accepted her and gave her his clan mark? And we were on good relations with the Arcturians since "Aliens". So it's been like this since the old EU to some extent.

The thing is, this stuff's not explored in the franchise. Even in Rage War, the characters are literally only humans, synthetics and Yautja.

There's no Engineer, no Arcturian, no four armed thing, nothing. The "encounters" with other races are implied to be sparse and many of the races don't give a damn about us, the new books do say that while some were nice, others were either indifferent or hostile. Even the nice ones, we don't keep much contact with, hell, the only ones mentioned by name (as we call them) are the Arcturians with whom we're on good terms with, no one else is listed.

Most races we've seen in the comics, humanity probably hasn't even encountered. Like the Reapers from Aliens: Reapers etc.

I really don't get what's wrong with having some other intelligent creatures besides us in this franchise. It's kind of like people say about the real universe, space is so huge, there's gotta be something out there. In Alien, the Space Jockey is proof enough that there's other intelligences besides humanity. So if there's a Space Jockey, there's bound to be other things, albeit at a ridiculous distance away from us.

I used to like the idea of this franchise being a dark, empty, soulless and barren void with just humanity, Aliens and Predators. But ever since Sea of Sorrows confirms "we've met loads of intelligent alien races" as of 2497, it was something I couldn't ignore as at that time, I kept going back and forth between "empty" galaxy and "has some life in it" galaxy, so Sea of Sorrows helped me solidify my choice.

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Dec 02, 2015, 09:12:56 PM
What's wrong with that?

I've always pictured as extraterrestrials in general wanting VERY little to do with us, aside from distance observation. And if they do have something to want to do with us, I personally feel as if it's a very hostile reasoning. The Predators want to hunt us, the Aliens want to use us as breeding stock. I've always pictured the extraterrestrials in the Alien-Predator franchises as generally being either intelligent but hostile, or non-intelligent and hostile, or just non-intelligent wildlife. For the most part in the old EU, that's what we got aside from a few standout races. And I fully liked that idea.. It's what made the old Alien-Predator universe quite unique... no races wanted to help us, most were dead.. where as in Star Trek and Star Wars, you had an abundant of races who were always willing to help out one way or another.

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Dec 02, 2015, 09:12:56 PM
Technically, wasn't Machiko chum enough with the Predators to be accepted by them and allowed to live in their clan despite the Predator's suicidal protection to keep their tech out of human hands? Wasn't Alex the same with Scar to the point that he accepted her and gave her his clan mark? And we were on good relations with the Arcturians since "Aliens". So it's been like this since the old EU to some extent.

I miss Machiko Noguchi. I really do miss her but she seems to have gone the way of Mara Jade.. But in regards to Machiko, I'm not arguing her treatment in the Predator clan which she ran with. So I have to ask, why even bring this up when I already know this? Well... in answer to this point.. Machiko was accepted because of her clan marking. She didn't have to go with them but she did because she felt like she didn't fit in with humans. And when she did join up with them well.. a lot of the Predators didn't like her. Top Knot merely TOLERATED her. As for Alexa Woods, who presumably went the way of Machiko Noguchi as Noguchi went the way of Mara Jade, well... sure, she was marked and she had earned enough respect to get a trophy of her own but she could've gone with them... but she didn't. Also as for Predators keeping tech out of human hands, I doubt a telescopic staff is enough to make us a threat and advance us by hundreds of years compared to say.. a plasma caster, and then there is the forensic doctor who had the spear tip. As much as I love(d) the Predator species and the Yautja concept... they've made mistakes here and there.

As for the Arcturians, sure they've been around since Aliens but did anyone really know what they were supposed to be? I mean I've heard conflicting things that they were either these faceless beings who were humanoid, sentient insectoids, or were colonists who just named Arcturians. I've not read everything but I'm only telling you what I've heard from other fans over the years.

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Dec 02, 2015, 09:12:56 PM
I really don't get what's wrong with having some other intelligent creatures besides us in this franchise. It's kind of like people say about the real universe, space is so huge, there's gotta be something out there. In Alien, the Space Jockey is proof enough that there's other intelligences besides humanity. So if there's a Space Jockey, there's bound to be other things, albeit at a ridiculous distance away from us.

It's a matter of preference. I just feel like adding in more intelligent life out there makes it like most other Sci-Fi genres out there and I point out to Star Trek the most. Now I am not questioning the possibility of other life out there, infact I am a firm believer that there is life out there but not quite a lot of it being intelligent. From what I'm hearing, I'm just hearing that these authors are trying to add in life bursting everywhere and... I just see it turning to something like Star Wars or Star Trek. I was fine with Aliens, Predators, Space Jockeys (before they became handsome Squidward) and Reapers but seeing more intelligent life in abundance... tone it down a little. We don't need one hundred fifty one races out there, just so we can catch'em all.

Corporal Hicks

You can add to the galaxy without making it Star Trek. Personally I'd hate to see the galaxy teeming with life but I'd also hate to see it completely void of life. I'm after something in the middle. It'd just be nice to see one or two other new regular aliens (whether they're related to the Engineers or something completely independent) to keep it refresh because sooner or later, it'll run out of steam.

HuDaFuK

Quote from: TheBATMAN on Dec 02, 2015, 06:53:01 PMUgh, that's not for me personally.

Yeah, me neither.

The idea of a universe teeming with all these different alien lifeforms doesn't seem to fit with the desolate tone of the series. Space in Alien should be empty and silent.

The Alien Predator

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 03, 2015, 08:22:56 AM
You can add to the galaxy without making it Star Trek. Personally I'd hate to see the galaxy teeming with life but I'd also hate to see it completely void of life. I'm after something in the middle. It'd just be nice to see one or two other new regular aliens (whether they're related to the Engineers or something completely independent) to keep it refresh because sooner or later, it'll run out of steam.

Exactly. I prefer a perfect balance because sooner or later, it's just "Predator hunt humans on LV 1337", "Xenomorph infest colony on LV 228", "Predator hunt an Alien infestation on New Eden", "Xenos overrun ship".  *repeat cycle on different worlds and ships*

But with fire and stone, it showed a panel of Ahab hunting various civilizations throughout the years and to me, it made the Predators infinitely more badass. Like they don't care, they will hunt multiple civilized races without a concern of sentient retaliation. When it's just humans, it kind of makes them seem like a bully race hunting either a primitive humanity or other wildlife. But here, they're hunting other civilized creatures.

And Rakai, you keep comparing this to Star Trek/Wars. Have you thought that an empty void makes the franchise like Dune or Firefly? All of these are good franchises so it doesn't exactly help the case of either side. Dune/Firefly are completely void of other civilizations, only humanity exists in space. But Alien had Space Jockeys from film one so there's immediate proof that there's other creatures out there besides humanity. It's undeniable. The question is "where are they?" And the whole "they're all dead" will just turn it into Dead Space.

I like that Alien is not teeming with life, so both sides can be happy. Like I said, Lebbon did the right thing by saying some pockets of the galaxy thrive with life while others are empty voids of silence. And the aliens that humans have met, it's not like we (the fans) have actually seen them. They don't work in our ships or visit our worlds. Decker from Sea of Sorrows didn't find any Arcturian hookers on Earth.  :P

Perfect-Organism

Hey folks, I set up a separate thread for the Aliens TV series discussion.  There's even an opinion poll.  Come on over.  We have donuts (like that one on the desk in Hadley's Hope)...

The Alien Predator

For those of you who have read South China Sea.

How do Lebbon's Predators compare to the one from SCS? I'm curious as both books have got some good feedback from some people.

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#911
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Dec 03, 2015, 01:05:25 PM
And Rakai, you keep comparing this to Star Trek/Wars. Have you thought that an empty void makes the franchise like Dune or Firefly? All of these are good franchises so it doesn't exactly help the case of either side. Dune/Firefly are completely void of other civilizations, only humanity exists in space. But Alien had Space Jockeys from film one so there's immediate proof that there's other creatures out there besides humanity. It's undeniable. The question is "where are they?" And the whole "they're all dead" will just turn it into Dead Space.

The only reason why I keep bringing up Star Trek and Star Wars is because I really don't watch a lot of futuristic space-setting Science Fiction. So those are the only two which I had happen to really know about that do have alien lifeforms in it. Of course I know about Babylon 5 but... who remembers that? I most certainly didn't until just now. And I had completely forgotten about Firefly-- then again I never really watched it, so I can't comment on that. As for Frank Herbert's Dune? Yeah, I never saw that either. Most Sci-Fi I don't even watch unless it's Alien, Predator, Robocop or Terminator-- which we all know why I watch those for.. Heh heh heh.

And you're either missing the part where I said I'm not denying there is other life in the Alien-Predator universe other than Aliens, Predators and Space Jockeys, but what I am saying is that I liked the old universe where it was sparse with intelligent life.. and more visceral because of it. And most life out there WASN'T intelligent. The intelligent ones were far and few. All I'm saying is I preferred a universe where INTELLIGENT RACES (note, not life in general) are sparse, apathetic and downright sometimes cruel to the universe where intelligent life is being found more and more.

That's all I'm saying, man.

I just liked the old Alien-Predator universe where it was devoid and visceral, not teeming and cerebral. Just a matter of preference, man.

predxeno

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Dec 04, 2015, 12:07:13 AM
For those of you who have read South China Sea.

How do Lebbon's Predators compare to the one from SCS? I'm curious as both books have got some good feedback from some people.

South China Sea portrays the Predator more typical of the standard/Perry's Yautja code of honor, Lebbon's Predators are more like the Hish.

Corporal Hicks

I thought the South China Sea Predator was just more like the movie one. He was just out for some game good killing. No code of honor.

happypred

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 04, 2015, 08:40:09 AM
I thought the South China Sea Predator was just more like the movie one. He was just out for some game good killing. No code of honor.

He didn't kill the ex-rocker coward guy. Not much of a challenge. That was pretty Yautja-esque.

The Yautja "code of honour" doesn't really extend far beyond "only hunt dangerous prey"...even in Prey, this code is broken by the novices

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