The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon

Started by Perfect-Organism, Nov 18, 2014, 10:44:01 PM

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The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon (Read 233,438 times)

happypred

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 18, 2015, 06:49:03 PM
Quote from: happypred on Nov 18, 2015, 02:57:23 PM
I'm at the part where Johnny and Co. are slaughtering 9ft tall Yautja left and right

Nine feet tall Predators? Aren't most Predators around the 7-8 foot range? I mean it's not out of the question for them to be bigger but... 9 feet.. DAMN! Either those Predators have been eating their Wheaties (BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS!) or they're the Rodriguez Predators.

This isn't different from Prey or Hunter's Planet, in which average Yautja height is 2.5 metres ... roughly 8'2

LordCassusSnow

Sorry if this was posted already but did anyone else notice the reference to Predator 2 in this book?

The Alien Predator


LordCassusSnow

Guan Thwei you rock sir! I'm sure those who've finished the book have come across it by now and it's pretty hard to miss for those who have seen Predator 2. I myself couldn't help but quietly laugh at how awesome it was when i came across that line. Also i couldn't help but be bothered by the fact that the dog-like species discovered in Alien Out Of The Shadows too closely mirrored the Engineers with their bio mechanical ship and pens which were for the xenos like they were transporting them as weapons. But thankfully Tim Lebbon addresses this in Incursion describing  them as merely pets to the builders a.k.a. the engineers. Which leads me to believe the mural above the urn chamber in Prometheus depicts another pet of the engineer race. Imo it's a flightless bird-like pet we see there as it clearly has the features of a bird featus and the movie references heavily the ancient story of the titan Prometheus whose liver was eaten over and over by an eagle.

The Alien Predator

The Alien Predator

#844
Thanks for the compliment, LordCassusSnow, you rock too my friend!   :)

I loved reading the line as Kalakta was describing it. I did wonder how he knew Harrigan had "dark skin" as to Predators, we all look the same in colour. I still enjoyed it, that means Kalakta must have been in the same clan as City Hunter from Predator 2.

As for the Dog-Aliens, our Admin, Corporal Hicks has asked Tim Lebbon if the Dog-Aliens have any relations to the Engineers. He pointed out how there is a creature in the mural that looks a bit dog like and wondered if it's the same thing.

Mr. Lebbon has stated that they're not related if I'm not mistaken. The creature in the mural is something else and the Dog-Aliens are his own creation.

I think there's a slight difference between the Engineers and the Dog-Aliens, they both have bio-technology but they seem to implement them in their own unique ways. The Engineer's technology is biomechanoid, an unholy marriage of flesh and metal and other elements while the Dog-Aliens seem to "grow" everything ranging from buildings to ships. We don't know yet if Engineers grow their things, they may do it as well.

The "pets" you mentioned are the strange biomechanical slugs that do nothing but "eat, crap and build" (I laughed inwardly at this description, I want one as a pet now  ;D) these slugs were like a working force for the Dog-Aliens that continued to build and expand the artificial planetoid which the Dog-Aliens have settled on five million years ago.

You know, this bio-tech stuff seems to be the highest form of technological advancement, and only two races have achieved it so far that we know of, the Engineers and Dog-Aliens. The Rage has usurped these discoveries and made them their own. I really love what Mr. Lebbon has done with the Rage.

I am so excited to read the next book!

LordCassusSnow

Sorry to argue bud but theres no mention of the slug-like creature being a worforce for the dog-like aliens in incursion. The android Liliya outwardly states on the second page of chapter 18 (towards the bottom) that the dog-like aliens are in fact some kind of pet to the engineers (or "builders" in this case). Now to me both bird and dog-like aliens are some kind of slave to the engineer as well as the slug( though the slug was most likely a creation). If you own The Art of Prometheus you'll notice the Engineer and bird-like alien mural at the beginning of the book. Next to it you'll notice what seems to be the bird creatures claws holding up an open xeno egg as if  preparing to sacrifice itself for impregnation. This could be the same case for the dogs as well. Now whether or not Engineers created these races is beyond me but what could make sense is that the engineers discovered these races, were worshipped as gods by them and were taken by the engineers to be sacrifices to the engineer xeno army. In Fire and Stone a race of technologically advanced insectoids had a giant statue of an engineer. In Predator 2 the xeno skull found in the yautja ship was the same as the human strain soldier xeno found on acheron. So they might have taken a few of us at some point as well. Also, i'm sure they grow their own tech as anne jordan states that walking through the derelict was like walking inside a dead organism. Going back to the slug though, it seems very curious that it and the xeno are able to secrete seemingly endless bio organic matter. The slug secretions actually being more advanced and creating tech for wherever it is. I'm not saying other races wouldn't have been able to grow their own tech too but in this case, with the dogs, it seems their nothing but some kind of pet as is stated. What i got from lebbon stating that the bird and dog are not related is that their not the same species as we are not related to either of them as well. Notable mention, In the time of Weylands TED talk, in the Prometheus extra features, it seems Bladerunner is canon to all this as well as Weyland speaks of Tyrell. And in Bladerunner were able to replicate animals and humans( maybe jones wasn't a real cat?) so it seems if almost every race that is somewhat humanoid in the Alien/Predator universe was created by engineers, maybe were all genetically committed to create bio tech at some point. Thus following in the footsteps of our creators. In actuality, if there are humanoids out there in our reality, it'd blow everyone minds as it should be impossible for that to happen! :o

happypred

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 23, 2015, 01:00:24 AM
Thanks for the compliment, LordCassusSnow, you rock too my friend!   :)

I loved reading the line as Kalakta was describing it. I did wonder how he knew Harrigan had "dark skin" as to Predators, we all look the same in colour. I still enjoyed it, that means Kalakta must have been in the same clan as City Hunter from Predator 2.

Dark objects absorb more/reflect less visible light ... thus they tend to get hotter and emit more IR? I dunno

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#847
I do believe that they do talk about the dog-aliens being pets too. But Tim keeps it quite vague.


Interview is up - http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/tim-lebbon-interview-predator-incursion/

HuDaFuK

I'm guessing it's a bit spoilery?

Corporal Hicks


The Alien Predator

The Alien Predator

#850
Quote from: LordCassusSnow on Nov 23, 2015, 02:32:47 AM
Sorry to argue bud but theres no mention of the slug-like creature being a worforce for the dog-like aliens in incursion. The android Liliya outwardly states on the second page of chapter 18 (towards the bottom) that the dog-like aliens are in fact some kind of pet to the engineers (or "builders" in this case). Now to me both bird and dog-like aliens are some kind of slave to the engineer as well as the slug( though the slug was most likely a creation). If you own The Art of Prometheus you'll notice the Engineer and bird-like alien mural at the beginning of the book. Next to it you'll notice what seems to be the bird creatures claws holding up an open xeno egg as if  preparing to sacrifice itself for impregnation. This could be the same case for the dogs as well. Now whether or not Engineers created these races is beyond me but what could make sense is that the engineers discovered these races, were worshipped as gods by them and were taken by the engineers to be sacrifices to the engineer xeno army. In Fire and Stone a race of technologically advanced insectoids had a giant statue of an engineer. In Predator 2 the xeno skull found in the yautja ship was the same as the human strain soldier xeno found on acheron. So they might have taken a few of us at some point as well. Also, i'm sure they grow their own tech as anne jordan states that walking through the derelict was like walking inside a dead organism. Going back to the slug though, it seems very curious that it and the xeno are able to secrete seemingly endless bio organic matter. The slug secretions actually being more advanced and creating tech for wherever it is. I'm not saying other races wouldn't have been able to grow their own tech too but in this case, with the dogs, it seems their nothing but some kind of pet as is stated. What i got from lebbon stating that the bird and dog are not related is that their not the same species as we are not related to either of them as well. Notable mention, In the time of Weylands TED talk, in the Prometheus extra features, it seems Bladerunner is canon to all this as well as Weyland speaks of Tyrell. And in Bladerunner were able to replicate animals and humans( maybe jones wasn't a real cat?) so it seems if almost every race that is somewhat humanoid in the Alien/Predator universe was created by engineers, maybe were all genetically committed to create bio tech at some point. Thus following in the footsteps of our creators. In actuality, if there are humanoids out there in our reality, it'd blow everyone minds as it should be impossible for that to happen! :o

I swear it was the "slug" that was the pet? They tried communicating with it when they found it because they assumed it was intelligent, but all it did was go around and build. The very description of it says it "eats, craps and builds". That sounds very much like a pet that builds to me. They continued building because even long after the Dog-Aliens died, the slugs kept building and hence "the planetoid was still growing". The book specifically states this.

So logically, it was a work force while the Dog-Aliens are the intelligent race.

I checked out Chapter 18 and Lilliya is looking at the Dog-Alien skeleton. She does say "yet I knew so little that these things could just be the builders' pets", she may either be thinking the slugs are the Dog-Alien's pets, or the Dog-Aliens are the slug's pets (which is unlikely seeing as how the slugs behave compared to the Dog-Aliens who have or had a thriving civiliation, Out of the Shadows explores them a lot more.)

Because the Engineers aren't mentioned at all. If they were, I would've known as I am really fascinated with them. The Engineers were in River of Pain.

But now that I think about it more, I think you're onto something LordCassusSnow and I like what you wrote. I also loved those sections in Fire and Stone showing other Engineer creations like the four armed Goro aliens and the insect things as well as this highly advanced armoured creature that was shot down by Ahab's plasma caster before he looked at the hologram of an Engineer.

You say that all humanoid races must be their creations, do you think the Yautja are? Maybe the Yautja are this rare humanoid race that evolved as a result of "convergent evolution" and due to a sheer and utter coincidence, happens to look like us. Like someone in Rage War said, "if the universe is truly infinites, then out there somewhere is a square planet".

Same logic applies here, heck, if the universe is truly infinite, somewhere out there could be Yautja.  ;D

Speaking of Fire and Stone, the Engineers seem to keep contact with all their races, the three other examples besides humans all have some kind of evidence for the Engineers such as cave paintings, statues and holographic pictures. The Yautja weren't shown to have this, Ahab was amazed every time he stumble upon these relics and got more obsessed with finding and hunting an Engineer like Captain Ahab and the white whale.

And Hicks, thanks for the interview man, I loved reading that.

So it seems the
Spoiler
prologue was a little mistake then? Although I rationalized it as being some top secret cloak and dagger USM operation that was so wrapped up that no one major heard of it. And Lilliya destroyed the only sample and records so Wren couldn't have known (or wasn't informed or maybe was lying to Ripley 8 ). Interestingly a "company" was mentioned but not Weyland-Yutani if I'm not mistaken.

And the other reference in the book during 2692 states that Weyland-Yutani had "live samples" which didn't turn out well. I assumed that was the "reference" to the ending in Sea of Sorrows

So even if it was a mistake it wasn't something major. Remember the description of the Derelict in River of Pain? That was a huge scenery mistake of the pilot room that I had to completely re-imagine how it looked.

Lebbon's little "mistake" is easily explained rather than having to be ignored.  ;D
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RakaiThwei

Just read the interview and I have to say it's an interesting one!

In regards to my questions... Aaaah.. Well...

Spoiler
I'm a little disappointed in that we're told to not read too much into it. I was hoping that there was more of a hint to the idea of a multiverse, and I'm still hoping for it but... I now kind of regret asking that because it's neither a reference to the many-worlds interpretation or even the science theory. It's just.. well, there. I'm still hoping for a multiverse, and would love it if we got one. I hope we do, even if not referenced.
[close]

But I am surprised to know that he liked the Yautja name enough to use it for his version of the Predators. I still think that if he was going to use the Yautja name, he should've taken the concept as a whole and utilized it, build upon it... but as it is, I really think he should've left it alone and just referred to them as either Predators, or Hunters.

In regards to the Hish, it's not surprising that he didn't know about them. Even by EU standards, the Hish are pretty obscure.

The Alien Predator

Rakai, look on the bright side.

Spoiler
At least the fact that it's mentioned shows that it "exists".

Maybe the Multiverse is the many "planes of existence" that we utilize for FTL travel and communication.

Or it may be the "alternative EU", so in a way, it's left up to us to imagine. So you are absolutely free to see the old EU as a mirror universe to the current one and so on.
[close]

I also love that he used "Yautja", I am one of the few that really likes the name. It kinda sounds unique. I don't know, it's not like "Klingon" where it sounds like "cling on", it genuinely just sounds quite alien and tribal and I interpret as Yautja being pronounced in a way that is so difficult for us hence when we say it, it confuses the Predators.

My friend says "yotcha", the Xenopedia wiki uses the abhorrent "e-wat-ya"... where they got that from, I have no idea.

So the way humans pronounce "Yautja" could be nothing like how Machiko pronounced it for instance.

On a side note, I forgot to mention that Mr. Lebbon does tend to spell "Alpha Centauri" incorrectly. In both Out of the Shadows and Incursion, he put "Alpha Centurai", and that's understandable seeing as how that's the way some people pronounce it, but it's "Alpha Centauri".  :)

I think it'd be nice if someone informs Mr. Lebbon on Twitter about this so that he doesn't incorrectly spell it in future stories. It wasn't a big glaring mistake, just something minor. I also noticed that Rage War had 99% correct spelling and grammar, some other books I read had some minor mistakes which were amusing to notice. Out of all the books, Tim's works tends to have the least errors. It's just "Alpha Centauri". XD

But overall seriously, 10/10. I plan to re-read this once I have the entire trilogy.

Ultramorph

Nice interview, Hicks! It really comes across that Lebbon is enjoying the whole thing.

Spoiler
It's cool that he just acknowledged the prologue was a mistake, and it would have been cool to see it take place on the Auriga. Here's hoping the dog-aliens show up, alive, in person sometime in the third novel. Sad to hear that the Arcturians will only be getting mentions, but I remain convinced that Fox has some sort of plan for them, be it in the movies or comics.
[close]

Is it April yet?

The Alien Predator

Quote from: Ultramorph on Nov 23, 2015, 06:21:29 PM
Nice interview, Hicks! It really comes across that Lebbon is enjoying the whole thing.

Spoiler
It's cool that he just acknowledged the prologue was a mistake, and it would have been cool to see it take place on the Auriga. Here's hoping the dog-aliens show up, alive, in person sometime in the third novel. Sad to hear that the Arcturians will only be getting mentions, but I remain convinced that Fox has some sort of plan for them, be it in the movies or comics.
[close]

Is it April yet?

Ultramrph, I have installed a spare cryo-pod if you want to join me in hibernation. I will calibrate it to wake us up on April 2016.  ;D

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