The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon

Started by Perfect-Organism, Nov 18, 2014, 10:44:01 PM

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The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon (Read 234,036 times)

HuDaFuK

Quote from: predxeno on Oct 22, 2015, 06:00:03 AMConsidering that River of Pain is based on Newt's Tale which the author viewed as canon, there wasn't much else he could do.

It wasn't. At least, it wasn't supposed to be. I remember the author saying (in an interview with Hicks, I believe) that the Newt's Tale stuff was included of his own initiative. And even then, as Hicks said, those bits were only very small sections of the novel.

happypred

Just giving my two cents...though I recall you have said that before (I could be wrong. If so, my bad)

I just feel that so much of the Yautja whining is really misguided. It would be more logical for ppl to complain about Broken Tusk's portrayal as opposed to the portrayal of the Yautja as a race

Corporal Hicks

I probably have but I'm not looking to start an argument about it here. If you fancy having a chat about it, feel free to throw up a new thread in General A/P and I'll come join in.

The Alien Predator

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 22, 2015, 07:13:46 AM
So I'm about 2/3s of the way through Incursion right now -

Spoiler
I am really digging the Founders/Rage. Really digging them. They're the most interesting thing in the book up to now.
[close]

Spoiler
Same here, the Rage are a very interesting faction. I really loved their sections and what we saw of their discoveries in the galaxy outside of human space. It kind of makes you wonder what the Predators themselves run across.

I also LOVED what Lebbon did with the rest of humanity, their progress and technological advancements made me really get into the human side of things. The Marines are a genuine force to be reckoned with even for the Yautja.
[close]

Perfect-Organism

Just picked up the Predator: Incursion book and read the first chapter.  Not bad action sequences..

predxeno

Well getting back to the plot, I just didn't feel the story did the Predators justice; they felt more like the Hish from the DH Press series rather than actual Yautja (which they are named after) from the original EU stories.  The humans also have MUCH more advanced weaponry than A:R let on to the point where humans are capable of killing multiple Predators easily.  Also, I felt the book marginalized the Predators as characters and instead chose to focus on the threat that was chasing them away (the threat itself, feeling very cliched).  I tried to give this book a chance, but the universe just felt too different from the traditional stories we've come to expect from the franchise.

Spoiler
The story feels like a remake of AVP: Three World War where instead of Predators and humans teaming up to fight rogue Predators, they're teaming up to fight rogue humans.
[close]

Ultramorph

I really need I set aside some time to get some reading done.

The Alien Predator

While I was reading the book, I noticed another interesting thing in Lebbon's world building.

Spoiler
The general is said to be a veteran of the "Quaille Wars" or something (can't remember the exact spelling of the word), he allegedly killed with his bare hands and gained a reputation for it. The name of the war is odd, I tried looking up the word and got "Quail" which is a type of bird. Could the Quaille be some kind of aliens that were hostile to mankind?
[close]

Corporal Hicks

Ok and finished. Over all, I enjoyed it. The Rage/Founders are really damn interesting. What they do is something I always wanted to see explored. I hope more of that kind of thing isn't lost in the rest of the series. The book is a lot of setup and whilst that wasn't bad, it did seem to take a while to actually really get to it. There's a lot of world building going on and that was really nice.

The humans did seem overpowered which I wasn't too thrilled on. The Predators never really seemed like a threat which disappointed me. We kept being told they were badass but never shown it. I would have liked to have seen more devastation from the Predators.

I'll start on my review soon and I'm also putting questions together for Tim. I haven't asked yet but I'm sure he'll be up for a Q&A so if anyone has any questions please let me know.

The Alien Predator

I agree, I loved the world building.

Did you notice the little line that mentions
Spoiler
the multiverse? The Rage were experimenting with theories which included "multiverse balancing"
[close]

As for the Predator devastations, I felt the true damage was coming at the end and mainly happened off screen. The Yautja began attacking colonies, space stations, marine ships, civilian ships and even freakin' space pirates!

Overall, what did you think of the portrayal of the Yautja? I know you aren't a fan of Perry's Yautja, but what did you think of Lebbon's take? I loved how independent and solitary they were, he also implied they were nomadic and tended to gather together for a big hunt or in this case, a war. He kept them very alien and the human characters acted like us, guessing and speculating. They even guessed Yautja may have stolen tech while others said they developed them independently and advanced quickly (such as the cloaking, when we steal theirs, they come back with something better.)

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 26, 2015, 06:11:31 PM
As for the Predator devastations, I felt the true damage was coming at the end and mainly happened off screen. The Yautja began attacking colonies, space stations, marine ships, civilian ships and even freakin' space pirates!

Which was a mistake as it lessens the true impact. Show, don't tell. We saw far more of the threat of the Rage than the actual Predators.

QuoteOverall, what did you think of the portrayal of the Yautja? I know you aren't a fan of Perry's Yautja, but what did you think of Lebbon's take? I loved how independent and solitary they were, he also implied they were nomadic and tended to gather together for a big hunt or in this case, a war. He kept them very alien and the human characters acted like us, guessing and speculating. They even guessed Yautja may have stolen tech while others said they developed them independently and advanced quickly (such as the cloaking, when we steal theirs, they come back with something better.)

They weren't Yautja at the end of it all. And I still dislike the use of the name because whilst now it didn't mean Perry's Yautja culture weren't used, it's just a random word that's only tie backs are because of Prey and stupid marketting it's now what the Predators are called. It made absolutely no sense - in-universe - for them to be called Yautja.

I liked pretty much everything Lebbon put out about them. No complaints there. My only real complaints about the Predators are the 2 above points.

predxeno

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 26, 2015, 06:17:07 PM
QuoteOverall, what did you think of the portrayal of the Yautja? I know you aren't a fan of Perry's Yautja, but what did you think of Lebbon's take? I loved how independent and solitary they were, he also implied they were nomadic and tended to gather together for a big hunt or in this case, a war. He kept them very alien and the human characters acted like us, guessing and speculating. They even guessed Yautja may have stolen tech while others said they developed them independently and advanced quickly (such as the cloaking, when we steal theirs, they come back with something better.)

They weren't Yautja at the end of it all. And I still dislike the use of the name because whilst now it didn't mean Perry's Yautja culture weren't used, it's just a random word that's only tie backs are because of Prey and stupid marketting it's now what the Predators are called. It made absolutely no sense - in-universe - for them to be called Yautja.

I liked pretty much everything Lebbon put out about them. No complaints there. My only real complaints about the Predators are the 2 above points.

I agree with Hicks on this issue, it probably would have been better had they renamed the Predators with an entirely new name like John Shirley did with the Hish; at least that way, we can rationalize that they are a completely separate sub-species/race/etc.  The Yautja in the novel behaved nothing like the Yautja of previous stories; what's ironic is that even the movies (both AVP movies included) depicted the Predators as being honorable warriors capable of great savagery yet also great mercy, on multiple occasions Predators have been shown to spare mothers and children and were depicted as beings capable of keeping their word to promises made.  The Predators in these new EU stories have no compunction about killing children or other innocents and I feel they fail to capture the true majesty of these beings.

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#702
Don't remember them taking out any unarmed in this?

Also the non-idealistic Yautja in Prey happily killed unarmed and went for children too.

I like that Lebbon didn't have them know the actual name of the Predators. I just would have liked him to not have used the Yautja as the name the humans call them. Predators was just fine IMHO.

The Alien Predator

The Alien Predator

#703
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 26, 2015, 06:17:07 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 26, 2015, 06:11:31 PM
As for the Predator devastations, I felt the true damage was coming at the end and mainly happened off screen. The Yautja began attacking colonies, space stations, marine ships, civilian ships and even freakin' space pirates!

Which was a mistake as it lessens the true impact. Show, don't tell. We saw far more of the threat of the Rage than the actual Predators.

QuoteOverall, what did you think of the portrayal of the Yautja? I know you aren't a fan of Perry's Yautja, but what did you think of Lebbon's take? I loved how independent and solitary they were, he also implied they were nomadic and tended to gather together for a big hunt or in this case, a war. He kept them very alien and the human characters acted like us, guessing and speculating. They even guessed Yautja may have stolen tech while others said they developed them independently and advanced quickly (such as the cloaking, when we steal theirs, they come back with something better.)

They weren't Yautja at the end of it all. And I still dislike the use of the name because whilst now it didn't mean Perry's Yautja culture weren't used, it's just a random word that's only tie backs are because of Prey and stupid marketting it's now what the Predators are called. It made absolutely no sense - in-universe - for them to be called Yautja.

I liked pretty much everything Lebbon put out about them. No complaints there. My only real complaints about the Predators are the 2 above points.

I agree, I wish we saw the Predators devastating things. Remember earlier in the book where a single human ship took out several Predator ships with two unmanned drones? I can sort of accept that "micro nukes" were used and other super advanced stuff such as particle beams and lasers.

But I was starting to feel that it was taking on seven "Bastards" and doing pretty well, but then Bastard One shot a volley of lasers that seriously messed the human ship up and forced Frodo to land it so the crew can escape. That sort of helped even the things, perhaps the Predators were too focused on the ship and didn't notice the drones (and coupled with the fact that
Spoiler
they were just in the process of fighting the Fire-Lizards (or Fire-Dragons, both names are used) on the habitat. So they were kinda riled up it seemed.
[close]

As for the second point,
Spoiler
did you notice the part where Lilliya said "Yautja" and Hashori didn't understand it? And when Hashori said it, Lilliya's translator just registered it as "Yautja" despite the translation sounding so different.

It's like Lebbon's Yautja are just called that by the humans.
[close]

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 26, 2015, 07:16:50 PM
It's like Lebbon's Yautja are just called that by the humans.

That is exactly the point I'm making.  :)

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