The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon

Started by Perfect-Organism, Nov 18, 2014, 10:44:01 PM

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The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon (Read 234,029 times)

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 07:31:30 AM
Like I said - the first novel was poor. But Flesh and Blood took the aspect I liked - the thrill of the hunt, not the space samurai stuff and made the Predators brutal. Just how I liked it.

I suppose it's a matter of preference. I prefer the Yautja mythology and that's what I'm sticking with.

Of course there is the neutral material where the Predators are neither shown to be neither Yautja nor Hish. Like, Big Game, Turnabout and South China Sea. I wouldn't mind it if Lebbon avoided either and remained neutral and just referred to them as Predators.

Corporal Hicks

South China Sea is the best Predator novel. Hands down. Heads and shoulders above anything else out there. Turnabout was also great. I'd prefer he keep them neutral too but I'm sure if he needs to, he'll go to the Yautja. It's just too prolific.

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 07:40:56 AM
I'd prefer he keep them neutral too but I'm sure if he needs to, he'll go to the Yautja. It's just too prolific.

I hope he doesn't. Not because I don't like the Yautja mythos, but because I love it quite a lot. I am conservative about how all of that is handled. In my opinion, the Perry's and David Bischoff handled that aspect pretty well. I'm just wary if Lebbon will be adding or changing things which I feel won't agree with the Yautja aspect of things, especially if this is supposed to be part of a reboot of the EU.

Corporal Hicks

Then you have a stale and stagnant element. Boring. If you're not interested in development then there's no point in even bothering with new releases. That's the whole point of the expanded universe - to expand.

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 07:46:55 AM
Then you have a stale and stagnant element. Boring. If you're not interested in development then there's no point in even bothering with new releases. That's the whole point of the expanded universe - to expand.

I just feel as if the Yautja aspect more or less has been viewed enough. I don't mind seeing something new but I don't want it to clash with something I feel has been established. For example, I don't want to see Predator Kings when in previous EU material (i.e. games and comics) has established that Predators have a Council of Ancients. I also don't want to know if Engineers also created the Predators, I mean isn't that enough they were made Galactic Overlords?

If the Yautja aspect is to be expanded, I feel as if it has to keep the elements of the old but bringing in with things that don't clash with the old. For example, I wouldn't mind seeing different clans having different cultures. You know how some idigenous tribes out there have different cultures, like... one tribes being cannibals, others not so much, or how some tribes are representive of an element like say... oh.. an Earth Tribe or Fire Tribe? Case in point.. compare an Iroquois to the Apache.

THAT I wouldn't mind seeing.

Corporal Hicks

You saw that. Predators. And you complained.  :-\

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:01:12 AM
You saw that. Predators. And you complained.  :-\

[Sighs]

I didn't like the Preserve Planet and the whole Super Predator thing which was done for the Rule of Cool. You know the whole I-Pod and 8-Track comment? Yeah, they were done for Rule of Cool.

I didn't mind the Killer clan, I didn't mind the Poacher clan in Extinction either. I've been a firm believer that none of the clans were uniform, and that they followed certain lineages and what have you. It's about execution more than anything else. I liked the Killer clan in Three World War and I liked the Poacher clan in Extinction. I know there were other clans but.. I can't put my finger on them unless those were the other two significant clans in the old EU.

Corporal Hicks

The concept of the Super Predator isn't even in the film. It never made it onto screen. I wish people would move on from that.


HuDaFuK

Whoever did that exploding head. That's who we need for the SFX in the new Alien film.

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#234
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:08:21 AM
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2426913/scrubs-head-explode-o.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sObyG9bTf5A#ws

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 01, 2015, 08:09:50 AM
Whoever did that exploding head. That's who we need for the SFX in the new Alien film.

Actually.. whoever did THIS crushed head effect is who we need for the new Alien film!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Sptdhpa8A#ws

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2015, 08:10:46 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:08:21 AM
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2426913/scrubs-head-explode-o.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sObyG9bTf5A#ws


Seriously though. That's not even a valid complaint as the original concept is nowhere in the actual film. In fact, the film presents them exactly as what you just said you wanted. A different Predator clan with visibly different culture that conflicts with the "classic".

And even then you mention wanting cannibal Predators.  Granted it's been sometime since I read that early draft but didn't the actual Super Predators do that?

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 01, 2015, 08:09:50 AM
Whoever did that exploding head. That's who we need for the SFX in the new Alien film.

It's from an early Scrubs episode.

HuDaFuK

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:19:25 AMIt's from an early Scrubs episode.

Yeah, I realised. Clearly Stan Winston was busy :P

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:19:25 AM
Seriously though. That's not even a valid complaint as the original concept is nowhere in the actual film. In fact, the film presents them exactly as what you just said you wanted. A different Predator clan with visibly different culture that conflicts with the "classic".

Funny.. because other material asserts them as being Super Predators, and the same material seems to further drift them apart from the whole Yautja concept, more or less making the Super Predators considering themselves to be a whole other race. Scavenger is being listed as a Yautja-Super Predator hybrid. I'm not kidding.

As for the film itself, I did not like the execution. Also, I never said I wanted anything.. I said I wouldn't mind. Doesn't necessarily mean I have high hopes. But it all depends on the execution. For me, the Super Predator thing.. it was too far out there. The idea of the whole preserve planet, them being so radically different to an anatomical standpoint.. These guys might as well be an off-shoot race. Not ethnicity, not clan or tribe but an off-shoot race like how Romulan and Vulcans are.

But as I said, some material out there seems to assert that may be the case. I wouldn't mind it if the EU would write these Super Predators as a removed and off-shoot race with their own name designation. It doesn't have to be Yautja, nor Hish.

Honestly, that would make that easier for me to swallow and accept these guys.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:19:25 AM
And even then you mention wanting cannibal Predators.  Granted it's been sometime since I read that early draft but didn't the actual Super Predators do that?

I never said I wanted Cannibal Predators. I was making comparisons on how some real life indigenous tribes on Earth had happened to be cannibals. I was making an analogy on how some Predator clans could be different. Again, like making comparisons to Native American tribes. I never said explicitly that I wanted Cannibal Predators. Just making analogies is all.

Also, I don't remember the Super Predators being cannibals in any of the early scripts. Then again, I only just read those two scripts. The 1994 and 2009 script.

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2015, 08:30:49 AM
Funny.. because other material asserts them as being Super Predators, and the same material seems to further drift them apart from the whole Yautja concept, more or less making the Super Predators considering themselves to be a whole other race. Scavenger is being listed as a Yautja-Super Predator hybrid. I'm not kidding.

The backs of figures are probably amongst the lowest tier of EU. I'd rate them as valid as the Kenner comics.

QuoteAs for the film itself, I did not like the execution. Also, I never said I wanted anything.. I said I wouldn't mind. Doesn't necessarily mean I have high hopes. But it all depends on the execution. For me, the Super Predator thing.. it was too far out there. The idea of the whole preserve planet, them being so radically different to an anatomical standpoint.. These guys might as well be an off-shoot race. Not ethnicity, not clan or tribe but an off-shoot race like how Romulan and Vulcans are.

How are they "radically different"? Different colour. Present in various humans. Different forehead. Present in various humans. There's nothing to present these as a different race. Merely another ethnicity with minor physical differences and a different ideology. They like to bring their prey out of its comfort.

I love the idea of a preserve planet. I think it's a fantastic addition to the Predator mythology and it makes complete sense.

QuoteI never said I wanted Cannibal Predators. I was making comparisons on how some real life indigenous tribes on Earth had happened to be cannibals. I was making an analogy on how some Predator clans could be different. Again, like making comparisons to Native American tribes. I never said explicitly that I wanted Cannibal Predators. Just making analogies is all.

Wouldn't mind/Wanted.

QuoteAlso, I don't remember the Super Predators being cannibals in any of the early scripts. Then again, I only just read those two scripts. The 1994 and 2009 script.

Like I said, it'd been a while so my memory might not be accurate. I've got no desire to really read them again. I disliked them. The film, I didn't.

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:44:10 AM
The backs of figures are probably amongst the lowest tier of EU. I'd rate them as valid as the Kenner comics.

I'm not arguing the validity of the NECA backstories, as I find them questionable but I figured it was something worth pointing out. Of course, I am unsure who writes these backstories be it NECA, or Fox's in-house writers themselves. Either way, while I wouldn't take them as something solid, I figured it was something worth pointing out.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:44:10 AM
How are they "radically different"? Different colour. Present in various humans. Different forehead. Present in various humans. There's nothing to present these as a different race. Merely another ethnicity with minor physical differences and a different ideology.

They are very different. You're presenting them as the same species when they are more or less an off-shoot. Noland said it best with his own analogy with the Dogs and Wolves comment:

"Anyway, there's two different types of them out there. Hmm? Now, they're similar, but they're different. It's kind of like the difference between dogs and wolves."

As for the differences, well they are glaringly obvious. The Super Predators are implied to be taller, stronger, faster and smarter. That's not even touching the rest of the physical stuff. The cranial region seems to be exaggerated along with the mandibles. The skin is visible different on the face as well if Berserker is shown to be an example with indentations and rises happening in the skin. Folds here and there, all that sort of weird stuff going on. Also there is the foot configuration.. These guys have three large toes, where as the mainstream Predators have four or five toes.

Going back to the Dogs and Wolf comment.. Are they the same thing? They're cousin species. One just happened to branch off the other as it's been domesticated, the other remained nearly unchanged for thousands of years. But are dogs and wolves the same thing? No, they're not but they are closely related. Dogs and wolves are the same genus but they're different species.

Same applies to the Predators and Super Predators.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:44:10 AM
I love the idea of a preserve planet. I think it's a fantastic addition to the Predator mythology and it makes complete sense.

I did not like the idea of the Preserve Planet. For me it takes away the idea of what the Hunt is supposed to be about. A Predator isolating himself in an alien world, putting himself in a challenging environment that he has to familiarize himself with, his prey having the home field advantage to heal and restock on whatever it needs.  The aspect of the chase, the aspect of fair game in a sporting hunt. And that's not bringing the "space samurai" honor concept into that.

For me, THAT'S Predator. Something which the first two movies did spectacularly, and could still do.

You remember that King of the Hill episode where Hank wants to take Bobby out to hunt but feels as if his son is too inept to do it, and then tries to make up for it by taking Bobby to a La Grunta resort where they have captured buck out in the open where the Hunters sit in posts and shoot them in the wide open? For me that's what the Perserve Planet provides.. A canned hunt.

And many Hunters out there really don't like canned hunts. Completely takes the sport out of everything. In a controlled environment where the Super Predators reign, it's not about the thrill of the hunt anymore, it's about bagging a prey in the cheapest way possible.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:44:10 AM
Wouldn't mind/Wanted.

More like open to the idea of, but it depends on the execution.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:44:10 AM
Like I said, it'd been a while so my memory might not be accurate. I've got no desire to really read them again. I disliked them. The film, I didn't.

How in the hell did we even get talking about PREDATORS to begin with. I know that's a touchy subject since you and I don't agree on the film and honestly, I wasn't even intending to go there but here we are.

Having that said... I agree with you on the scripts. I didn't like those either.

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