Prometheus 2 set for March 4th 2016

[Alien³]

Why have scientist at all if you are only going to contact the engineers for longer life?  David by his lonesome and Weyland could've done the same thing.

I assumed hey had no idea what to expect. So they pulled together a crack pot team of scientists each covering different areas of expertise. < I use that term loosely

Why even give the engineer a chance to wake up in HIS setting either in enviroments he controls?  Take that mofo back to earth and negotiate from there when he's by himself.  Its silly either way you look at it.

"I only have a few days of life left in me." - Weyland couldn't wait 4 years, plus he seemed to be quite an impatient guy. There was no time to organise how to get it back to Earth:

1) (again) they had no idea what to expect when heading there.
2) by the time David finds the Engineer the shit hits the fan with everyone else.

Space Truckers had motivation to do what the company told them to because otherwise that long ass trip they just made away from their family would be useless because they would forfeit their pay. 

Forced into a situation they didn't want to be, much like the crew of the Prometheus.

And Burkes plan is so stupid it works perfectly initially.

?

He sends people out to confirm Ripley's story and low and behold Ripley's story was true.  He f**ked up on the second half of his plan when he tried to infect the survivors.

Agreed.

[Kimarhi]

That was for Darth Vile.  He had all pieces of his plan in place.  Though why he didn't just have Bishop smuggle the facehugger is silly.  But Greed is a believable human characteristic. 

Nobody forced the Prometheus crew.  Not informed is not forced.

[Alien³]

Not informed is not forced.

True, but you'd be complaining when faced with...

[SM]

If Prommy 2 has another falling spaceship, I hope we have characters who are smart enough to run off to the side instead of into the shadow of the falling craft.

If Prommy 2 has another falling spaceship, I hope the audience is able to pay enough attention to characters when they do run off to the side, like they did in Prommy 1.

[DoomRulz]

Yeah, one of two. Why exactly did Vickers not follow suit?

[The1PerfectOrganism]

Yeah, one of two. Why exactly did Vickers not follow suit?

Her and Shaw both did, but the ship leans and rolls to the side slightly chasing them like a giant penny spinning inwards after being dropped on a table.

[Lemonade]

Love the variety of death in Prometheus. Snake, zombie, sacrifice, spaceship, black goo.

[meshuggah]

Its still a pretty stupid movie.  Why have scientist at all if you are only going to contact the engineers for longer life?  David by his lonesome and Weyland could've done the same thing.

Why even give the engineer a chance to wake up in HIS setting either in enviroments he controls?  Take that mofo back to earth and negotiate from there when he's by himself.  Its silly either way you look at it.

Assuming they knew exactly what or who they were going to find, which they didn't, and it's tradition to have a bunch of expendables in the Alien universe. Weyland would have known full well far in advance that no credible Scientist would sign up to a years long journey into space without knowing why so he took what he could get. And David was highly skeptical of the whole foolhardy plan from the get-go as you would expect (evident in his doubting of Holloway's 'thesis' and quoting Lawrence, 'There is nothing in the desert and no man needs nothing.') but would serve his Creator nonetheless thus Weyland wanted fellow credulous believers on board, with some extra hands if need be. The corporate funded farce ends in disaster as it should, thus it's not stupid, it's a cautionary tale on hubris and human credulity.

Weyland, again, is a superstitious nut on death's door who wanted to meet his maker, waking up a slumbering God is archetypal and goes back to Babylonian myth; in the Enuma Elis, Abzu is woken by the lesser Gods and so sets out to destroy them, etc.

Yeah, one of two. Why exactly did Vickers not follow suit?

Her and Shaw both did, but the ship leans and rolls to the side slightly chasing them like a giant penny spinning inwards after being dropped on a table.

It can't be repeated enough, Shaw and Vickers RAN TO THE LEFT - http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/dominicd_imdb/media/Prometheus_AC_CrashRun_zps359bae41.mp4.html#sthash.cc6s4OLA.dpuf

[SM]

*Feisal rather than Lawrence.

[Xhan]

Actually it can be repeated a bunch of times because Vickers  looked fore, aft and starboard before deciding to run left. Maybe next time not bother ogling Shaw's butt and more lateral thinking.

[Darth Vile]

Its still a pretty stupid movie.  Why have scientist at all if you are only going to contact the engineers for longer life?  David by his lonesome and Weyland could've done the same thing.

Why even give the engineer a chance to wake up in HIS setting either in enviroments he controls?  Take that mofo back to earth and negotiate from there when he's by himself.  Its silly either way you look at it.

Space Truckers had motivation to do what the company told them to because otherwise that long ass trip they just made away from their family would be useless because they would forfeit their pay. 

I think its pretty safe to assume that the Sulaco had some sort of defensive IFF since its 150 years in the future and our own ships will turn a fighter jet to mincemeat if it approaches without the right identifier from ship to air defenses.

And Burkes plan is so stupid it works perfectly initially.  He sends people out to confirm Ripley's story and low and behold Ripley's story was true.  He f**ked up on the second half of his plan when he tried to infect the survivors.

No... you're simply making excuses for the other films to assert your position on Prometheus. In a logical universe, "Space Truckers" would be no more contractually obliged to investigate alien signals/life forms than would a trucker in the Mid West of the US be contractually obliged to recover specimens of snakes, poisonous flora and fungi on the way back to the depot. It's fecking stupid. That the only thing they recovered from the planetoid was incubating in Kane's chest, shows how ill prepared/ill equipped they were for such things. Ergo, it's actually an illogical premise. Now if the crew of the Nostromo had been prospectors or a company crew investigating new fuel sources in space... then it would have been much more logical they'd investigate an alien signal... but as you say they were merely "space truckers". And I still maintain that Ash being planted on the Nostromo is the single biggest plot hole in an Alien movie.

That the crew of the Sulaco were stranded on a hostile environment, and all but 3 of them died, shows how feckin stupid a policy of leaving the Sulaco unmanned was... regardless of it being "150 years in the future". But of course, it wasn't designed to be logical, but was merely a convenience to get them stranded. N'est-ce pas?

As for Burke's plan? There wasn't one... What we know of the plan is presented as hasty exposition from Ripley. We don't really see any of it in motion because it doesn't make sense. What was his original plan? Just to locate the derelict by using Newt's dad to investigate? Then what? What exactly was his plan for getting hold of a xeno... given, we assume, that he was trying to defraud the company? Was he always planning to infect the colonists? Was he planning to get the Sulaco to drop him off 'back at his' with a facehugger stuffed down his shorts??? If his final makeshift plan involved killing the entire crew of the Sulaco on the journey home, how would he have the expertise to do that given he was on a military ship, under a military operation? Was he the one whose job it was to put the crew into cryo sleep? Was he able to re-program the computer system to wake him earlier? We certainly didn't see anything in the film to demonstrate that this was possible/feasible? But it really doesn't hold up.
Also - how did Ripley find out that he was planning to kill everyone? Did she pull it out of her ass? Did she read his diary? "Tuesday – kill crew, dispose of bodies and return home". "Wednesday – Get haircut and feed xeno" etc. etc.

[SiL]

The space truckers weren't told to retrieve shit, just to check out any transmission of possible intelligent origin. Which would make sense in a logical universe -- space is big and empty and there aren't a lot of people flying through it. No-one's going to want to pass up the opportunity to make first contact. Bring back specimen was the sinister dubious dickhole Company Special Order, not their contractual agreement.

How is Ash being planted a plot hole?

Burke's plan was simple: Send the colonists out, and if they found something, claim the rights. The end. Then shit happened and the colony was overrun. He didn't need a specimen until the Marines agreed with Ripley's plan to nuke the site from orbit, at which point he decided to try to smuggle some home. Ripley supposes he'll try to kill the Marines, or deal with them somehow.

The novel explains how he'd do it, the film never bothers saying that part was actually his plan; not that he does much to disprove it, and not that it's terribly relevant by that point in the film.

[DoomRulz]

Actually it can be repeated a bunch of times because Vickers  looked fore, aft and starboard before deciding to run left. Maybe next time not bother ogling Shaw's butt and more lateral thinking.

Spacesuit ass looks so good though, how could she resist?

[Darth Vile]

The space truckers weren't told to retrieve shit, just to check out any transmission of possible intelligent origin. Which would make sense in a logical universe -- space is big and empty and there aren't a lot of people flying through it. No-one's going to want to pass up the opportunity to make first contact. Bring back specimen was the sinister dubious dickhole Company Special Order, not their contractual agreement.

How is Ash being planted a plot hole?

Burke's plan was simple: Send the colonists out, and if they found something, claim the rights. The end. Then shit happened and the colony was overrun. He didn't need a specimen until the Marines agreed with Ripley's plan to nuke the site from orbit, at which point he decided to try to smuggle some home. Ripley supposes he'll try to kill the Marines, or deal with them somehow.

The novel explains how he'd do it, the film never bothers saying that part was actually his plan; not that he does much to disprove it, and not that it's terribly relevant by that point in the film.

There's no logic in them checking out transmissions... what does "check out" actually mean? It implies finding out who/what is the source of the transmission. A job for truckers??? I don't think so. If we are expected to believe that in the future  'space truckers' can be contracted into investigating the source of alien transmissions, it certainly should be as 'believeable' that a scientist may be a bit of an idiot. The latter certainly seems the most believable to me.

Re. Ash. The inference in the film is that he's onboard the Nostromo covertly. Why would the company put Ash there? It's either...
1) Because the company routinely and surreptitiously replace crew with artificial life forms... which stretches internal logic given the randomness of it without any on screen explanation.
2) That the company put Ash there in order to report on/protect anything coming back from the Nostromo's detour. Which again wouldn't make any sense given the logistics of putting Ash on board prior to the Nostromo leaving dock (wherever that was). If the company had time to supplant Ash, then they surely had the time to send a dedicated crew and vessel instead of the Nostromo.

Re. Aliens and Burke... again it's not logical. Firstly - it's not really believable that a colonist or company employee (Burke) can automatically claim the rights to something found on LV426... that's been terraformed, and presumably owned, by that company. Just because that is what's alluded to in the film (specifically the deleted scene) doesn't make it any more believable. But we'll let that pass to get to the next thing... If Burke sent the colonist purely to check it out, then why wasn't he more explicit in his instructions? Surely whoever put the claim in on Burke's behalf would have to be complicit? Why all the subterfuge on Burke's part? None of that is ever explained... and that's because there's really no logical need for subterfuge other than to create a 'villain' for afterwards.

The conversation should have been:-

Burke: "Hey Simpson - there's possibly a big find, a crashed ship, at coordinates X,Y and Z. However, it could be very dangerous, so find it, take some aerial shots and we'll make a joint claim... 50/50... But whatever you do, do not go inside. We'll leave that for the specialists once we have the rights".

Simpson: "Sounds sensible to me... I don't like taking risks".

But whilst that's the way it may have been in reality... characters are written to behave in ways that fall outside of what we'd deem 'normal' in order to move/shape the story the way the writer sees fit. Burke is made a villain without any 'real' motivation because it supplies a 'reveal' moment similar to the Ash scene in Alien... Milburn is depicted as a bit of a fool because it was easier to place him in that scene (a scientist) rather than one of the pilots or bodyguards, who'd you'd more readily believe would act 'idiotically' (which is probably the simple truth of it). It serves the story in the most convenient way.

[SiL]

There's no logic in them checking out transmissions... what does "check out" actually mean? It implies finding out who/what is the source of the transmission. A job for truckers??? I don't think so.

Okay, so your entire argument is "They're space truckers". That's not actually an explanation for why it's illogical.

If we are expected to believe that in the future  'space truckers' can be contracted into investigating the source of alien transmissions, it certainly should be as 'believeable' that a scientist may be a bit of an idiot. The latter certainly seems the most believable to me.

They're not at all similar and that comparison is really, really thin.

Re. Ash. The inference in the film is that he's onboard the Nostromo covertly. Why would the company put Ash there? It's either...
1) Because the company routinely and surreptitiously replace crew with artificial life forms... which stretches internal logic given the randomness of it without any on screen explanation.
2) That the company put Ash there in order to report on/protect anything coming back from the Nostromo's detour. Which again wouldn't make any sense given the logistics of putting Ash on board prior to the Nostromo leaving dock (wherever that was). If the company had time to supplant Ash, then they surely had the time to send a dedicated crew and vessel instead of the Nostromo.

It was pretty obviously the latter, and it does make sense. Rerouting a ship that's already on its way and replacing the science officer is a lot less work than putting together an entire crew and dedicated ship for what might be nothing. There aren't any complicated logistics involved; crew transfers clearly aren't that uncommon, as Ripley was also put aboard the ship at the same time.

Firstly - it's not really believable that a colonist or company employee (Burke) can automatically claim the rights to something found on LV426... that's been terraformed, and presumably owned, by that company.

They can, as they're prospectors. The SE makes this clear. The planet isn't owned by anyone, the colony and AP station are. Anything found on the planet is up for grabs. The Alien universe never implies that entire planets are owned by corporations.

But we'll let that pass to get to the next thing... If Burke sent the colonist purely to check it out, then why wasn't he more explicit in his instructions?

What part did he leave out? "Go check this out" was all they needed to do. Burke didn't even know if there was something there.

Surely whoever put the claim in on Burke's behalf would have to be complicit? Why all the subterfuge on Burke's part? None of that is ever explained... and that's because there's really no logical need for subterfuge other than to create a 'villain' for afterwards.

The subterfuge only came in after Burke and the Marines got stranded next to a ticking nuclear bomb.

Milburn is depicted as a bit of a fool because it was easier to place him in that scene (a scientist) rather than one of the pilots or bodyguards, who'd you'd more readily believe would act 'idiotically' (which is probably the simple truth of it). It serves the story in the most convenient way.

Would've been very easy for one of the security guys to be in that scene -- just have him walk off with Fifield. Milburn being there didn't serve the story other than to kill him off.