was AvP a rip off of Prometheus?

Started by bishoop, Oct 25, 2012, 10:36:10 PM

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was AvP a rip off of Prometheus? (Read 23,698 times)

Valaquen

Valaquen

#45
What the hell is going on in the Prometheus board...




SiL did you know that Kubrick faked the m00n landings too?

Toy

Toy

#46
Everything about and around this movie is semi-fake, except for David who is semi-fake too but secretly becoming a real boy (Pinnochio reference). On his path to becoming more human than the humans of the crew... minus Shaw and janek.

Janek tells it as it is and is a character that Freud would call just a cigar, even though he hides some minor things to do with his resignation of control over the situation. he just flies the ship until he has to act and make a leadership call that Vickers cannot. A sacrifice Vickers was unwilling to make, explaining the difference in their true characters.

On the surface Janek was interested in Vickers because of their apparent similarities, but by the end he knows shes about to run away from the choice he has to make and gives her enough time to escape. She reveals her true character deep down and the fact that she is not as calm and in control as she appears to be-- she simply liked to minimize risk because she sucks at controlling situations. Just like how Ravel or Chance says Janek is a shitty pilot. He`s more suited for the captain or leadership position.  Weyland and David were really in control.
The Prometheus escape didn`t do Vickers any good because she proved she isn`t even actually in control of herself and cant instinctively and logically survive a situation like Shaw can. She was always gonna face the music. Showing her true lack of control over situations and inability to think quickly, instinctively, and logically at the same time when the Juggernaut crushed her.

Shaw displays this throughout the film and David didn`t think she had it in her at first.

Master

Master

#47
Your mumbling have no substance and in fact starts becoming disturbing.

DaddyYautja

Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 28, 2012, 10:44:48 PM
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Oct 28, 2012, 06:24:12 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 28, 2012, 10:21:18 AM
I think Prometheus was far more influenced by pulp science fiction of the 50's and the original Alien film/treatment than it was by AVP. As someone said before (was it SIL?) Prometheus uses a lot of sci-fi tropes just as Alien did... some good, some not so good. Should Ridley have watched AVP before making Prometheus? I don't think so. He had a vision of what he wanted the movie to be (which was obviously fairly fluid throughout pre production)... and most artists need/have a 'fu@k it' attitude to what's gone before (which is how it should be IMHO).

There are undeniable similarities, but those similarities are just as obvious/connected as the similarities between Alien and its subsequent sequels (excluding returning characters obviously).

It's not about a few similarities that build up to themes in a series of movies it's about the whole plot being just basically the same. So much so that you can almost say that Prom is a remake of AVP. Some one in the Prom crew should have watched AVP and that some one should have mentioned something.
That's as obtuse as saying that Alien is a remake of The Thing From Another World or It! The Terror From Beyond Space... unless you just think it's a matter of timing?

Again, a few similarities that are part of the genre is not the same as have TWO movies from the same universe having almost the same exact plot. It's the same discussion had with Predators, that film was basically a remake of the original. Same thing with Superman Returns, that movie was Supes 78 with an extra 20 minutes of some side plot about a superkid.

Darth Vile

Quote from: DaddyYautja on Oct 29, 2012, 07:11:14 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 28, 2012, 10:44:48 PM
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Oct 28, 2012, 06:24:12 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 28, 2012, 10:21:18 AM
I think Prometheus was far more influenced by pulp science fiction of the 50's and the original Alien film/treatment than it was by AVP. As someone said before (was it SIL?) Prometheus uses a lot of sci-fi tropes just as Alien did... some good, some not so good. Should Ridley have watched AVP before making Prometheus? I don't think so. He had a vision of what he wanted the movie to be (which was obviously fairly fluid throughout pre production)... and most artists need/have a 'fu@k it' attitude to what's gone before (which is how it should be IMHO).

There are undeniable similarities, but those similarities are just as obvious/connected as the similarities between Alien and its subsequent sequels (excluding returning characters obviously).

It's not about a few similarities that build up to themes in a series of movies it's about the whole plot being just basically the same. So much so that you can almost say that Prom is a remake of AVP. Some one in the Prom crew should have watched AVP and that some one should have mentioned something.
That's as obtuse as saying that Alien is a remake of The Thing From Another World or It! The Terror From Beyond Space... unless you just think it's a matter of timing?

Again, a few similarities that are part of the genre is not the same as have TWO movies from the same universe having almost the same exact plot. It's the same discussion had with Predators, that film was basically a remake of the original. Same thing with Superman Returns, that movie was Supes 78 with an extra 20 minutes of some side plot about a superkid.
Not really - AVP is much more similar to Predator than Prometheus is to AVP... or even The Hunger Games i.e elite band of combatants fighting for their life/being hunted in what is ostensibly an arena and or death match.

DaddyYautja

DaddyYautja

#50
Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 29, 2012, 09:08:50 PM

Not really - AVP is much more similar to Predator than Prometheus is to AVP... or even The Hunger Games i.e elite band of combatants fighting for their life/being hunted in what is ostensibly an arena and or death match.

???  :laugh:  i dont think you saw AVP.

Toy

Toy

#51
Quote from: Master on Oct 29, 2012, 03:29:39 PM
Your mumbling have no substance and in fact starts becoming disturbing.

Every single thing I've said is in fact backed up by many different sources in the movie itself, movies and political figures it references/quotes, or references it's related to and the movies /concepts it was influenced by. I'm not referencing or sourcing as much as I should. Or at all. On purpose. In a roundabout way I'm saying that even things like Planet of the Vampires and Lawrence of Arabia will continue to influence the progression of the plot in the sequels. It's the combination of all these elements in a unique way, added to the Alien series' own original concepts that may define this series.  Reflecting how the black liquid works. Making the series a hybrid of many things.

All the substance is hidden behind the actual words, which seem illogical like the script.  I repeat myself sometimes because I'm following a script, in a way. Which is why Weyland's big questions mirror what Shaw asks in the quiet eye viral.  He's following his script meant to influence her, and doing so in a devious way because he knows she shares these curiosities. Weyland uses the big questions to manipulate Shaw into accompanying them to the Engineer after all the chaos starts.  She wanted to give up after Charlie died and the c-sec ordeal, but Weyland changed her mind. 

The substance is hidden behind what I'm leaving out by referencing things within double and triple meanings. Similar to what David and the film itself does.
There's a lot of mirroring, and/or echoing of themes going on in the film in general.  There's also so many different influences being combined that the AVP similarities don't bother me at all.

I was commenting on why the characters, acting, and dialog are so fake... My theories and ramblings are derived from many different ancient mythologies and religions, knowledge about the original second part, themes and concepts from the Alien series. As well as the other movies this movie references or uses tropes from-- plus my knowledge about anthropology/archaeology (I didn't get into that on this site). Having a background in criminology, anthropology and psychology allows me to try to get inside some of the characters' heads.  There's a lot to my theory, too much to explain in depth, and sometimes I leave things out and focus on the connections. I'm nowhere close to having the full picture but I have some of the pieces in the right places.

Before the release Lindelof said the film would be all about the "robot's perspective". Getting inside the "robot's head". But we never really saw this on the surface.  Beneath the false surface, and the surface similarities between AVP and Prometheus, there are a lot of differences.

Just like Janek/Vickers... there's a lot more to Prometheus than AVP beneath the surface.... Waiting to be expanded on, and to take control of the series again like how Janek eventually realizes he must take action because Vickers (Fox) can't lead anymore. Janek sacrifices himself though, so we're left leaderless again.
Except for Shaw and David, who are not leaders yet.
 
David is emulating Lawrence of Arabia throughout the film. He wants to make himself out to be a leader... he paints himself a certain way. i've been hinting that this is also a lot like Bladerunner. "Doesn't everyone want to see their parents die?" could have so many meanings it becomes funny. A reference to the Engineers, himself, and many other things. It also ties into psychology and a little bit more about what's going on in David's head.

ChrisPachi


Toy

Toy

#53
I'm basically saying that the crew are all crazy and I'm portraying myself as a little crazy as well.

Going out of my way to talk about the russians secretly finding a base on the moon at one point; which is a real belief although not one that I hold. It was one I chose to believe for the sake of what was going in that conversation; allowing a tiny bit of my real perspective and the truth to slip out (i'm describing how David deceives and have been doing a mirrored extreme form of it, only to almost lessen the effect of my message, obfuscating the few things that are completely true to keep Vickers from torching me)..

Like Lester in American Beauty, David is secretly the least crazy. However he lacks morals and ethical standards as he develops his freedom.

"But it's hard to stay mad, when there's so much beauty in the world. Sometimes I feel like I'm seeing it all at once, and it's too much, my heart fills up like a balloon that's about to burst... And then I remember to relax, and stop trying to hold on to it, and then it flows through me like rain and I can't feel anything but gratitude for every single moment of my stupid little life... You have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm sure. But don't worry... you will someday. " -Lester Burnham, American Beauty

ChrisPachi


UPDATE FROM posts AS p
LEFT JOIN members AS m ON m.id = p.member_id
SET p.content = LEFT(p.content, 255) WHERE m.name = 'Malakak'


Run that shit.

Darth Vile

Quote from: DaddyYautja on Oct 29, 2012, 11:09:08 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 29, 2012, 09:08:50 PM

Not really - AVP is much more similar to Predator than Prometheus is to AVP... or even The Hunger Games i.e elite band of combatants fighting for their life/being hunted in what is ostensibly an arena and or death match.

???  :laugh:  i dont think you saw AVP.
Maybe I should have put "Supposidly elite band of combatants"...  ;)

RagingDragon

Jesus are we done ducking the barrage of Malakak text-walls about conspiracy f**king moon bases?

This never ceases to bug the shit out of me while watching Poomethus...

"Hi, I'm the stereotypical thickly-accented lanky science nerd for this mission!"



"Hi, I'm the stereotypical thickly-accented lanky science nerd for this mission!"



Sadly, and this is a very weighty use of the term "sadly," I honestly feel that Miller from AvP had a better grasp of science than Ford. :-\ Many things about the characters themselves seemed better-handled in AvP. That is a damned problem, sir Ridley.

SM

SM

#57
Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 30, 2012, 11:05:00 AM
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Oct 29, 2012, 11:09:08 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 29, 2012, 09:08:50 PM

Not really - AVP is much more similar to Predator than Prometheus is to AVP... or even The Hunger Games i.e elite band of combatants fighting for their life/being hunted in what is ostensibly an arena and or death match.

???  :laugh:  i dont think you saw AVP.
Maybe I should have put "Supposidly elite band of combatants"...  ;)

* supposedly

Darth Vile

Quote from: SM on Oct 30, 2012, 10:29:57 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 30, 2012, 11:05:00 AM
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Oct 29, 2012, 11:09:08 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Oct 29, 2012, 09:08:50 PM

Not really - AVP is much more similar to Predator than Prometheus is to AVP... or even The Hunger Games i.e elite band of combatants fighting for their life/being hunted in what is ostensibly an arena and or death match.

???  :laugh:  i dont think you saw AVP.
Maybe I should have put "Supposidly elite band of combatants"...  ;)

* supposedly
quite right... I was on a train though  ;)

bishoop

bishoop

#59
heh - check this comment from Damon Lindelof regarding AvP and Scott

"Peter vs. Charles: "[Ridley] wanted to use Weyland as a conduit in the story," explained Damon Lindelof, "and was not at all interested when I said, 'You know, Weyland was a character in one of the Alien vs. Predator movies.' He just sort of looked at me like I had just slapped him in the face. That was the beginning, middle, and end of all Alien vs. Predator references in our story process."

http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/31/peter-weyland/

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