User Information

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: was AvP a rip off of Prometheus?  (Read 15319 times)

Master
Oct 26, 2012, 12:33:09 PM
Reply #15 on: Oct 26, 2012, 12:33:09 PM
Q
They share very similar scenes and i dont doubt that Anerson was influenced by some of the early unused ideas from the first Alien (like the pyramid).

That however does not explain why Prometheus has literally the same scenes as AVP.
Example: The excavation, the team briefing where no one knows why they are there, Weyland being on the trip, the idea of using the Chariots of the Gods concept, the two characters (the nerd and the bully) getting lost together and bonding, Weyland dying by an Alien, the last scene where an Alien bursts out of another, etc.....

This is all too much to be a coincidance and even if these ideas where in place years before AVP, there is simply no excuse to use the EXACT same set up of a previous film.

complete list ;D
-Foreshadowing opening set many years before events of film (AvP unrated cut only)
-Scientists discover signs designed to lure humans to a hidden place where perverse alien-ish things will happen to them
-Archaeological dig
-Group of scientists/mercs for mission to undisclosed destination funded by Weyland are assembled in the cargo hold of the ship by stern Company suit, and then briefed by Weyland about what they hope to find/how it could be a historic discovery for mankind, before archaeologists comment on the power point hieroglyphs seen in different ancient cultures around the world.
-Dying Weyland founder, who has designs on immortality, accompanies the crew despite being in very bad health.
-The female protagonist talks about her fathers death.
-Giant pyramid like temple structure discovered.
-Holographic projection of the structure is seen.
-One of the mercs is challenged by the female protagonist regarding taking weapons to the site.
-Journey to the site in armoured tractor type vehicles
-Enter Giger-esque interior of structure searching with torches and find ancient language carved into walls and someone asks 'can you read this?'
-The depiction of a xenomorph on the wall.
-One of the team activates the structure - thus creating sequence of catastrophic events.
-Team gets accidentally separated, the two that don’t get along (science nerd and wannabe hard man) get cut off from main group, are attacked by face creatures and die horribly. (plus sim to the two who are cut off from the others in the sacrificial chamber are attacked by face creatures)
-Discover 7ft+ ancient aliens who wear environmental face masks and create/breed alien life forms, were once worshiped as Gods by humans 
-Alien in cryogenic sleep is awakened (queen/engineer)
-Ancient aliens are hostile to humans - Weyland is killed by one
-Female protagonist tries to save the survivors, and humanity itself, from the alien threat.
-Female protagonist is only human survivor to escape destruction - which prevents spread of the alien destruction on earth (Pyramid blowing up/Prometheus crashing into the Engineer's ship)
-Main alien also survives destruction (queen/engineer) and attacks her before another alien intervenes saving the female protagonist (predator/giant face hugger)
-Female protagonist escapes environment but ultimate fate is uncertain.
-Final chest burst scene & new look xeno emerges from an ancient alien. The final shot is of the chestburster screaming into the camera.


Was writing about it some time ago! I`m glad you`ve found even more examples. Ridley should have seen AvP, he could avoid some similarities.


LarsVader
Oct 26, 2012, 01:56:25 PM
Reply #16 on: Oct 26, 2012, 01:56:25 PM
Q
I have not seen any of the AvP movies,
and by reading this list; I might have enjoyed Prometheus less if I had seen AvP before.
So I come to understand some of your anger regarding Prometheus.

I also think that AvP might be influenced by earlier ALIEN versions.
And I also understand that Ridley hasn't seen those movies and also drew from his earlier ALIEN versions.

But why the heck didn't anybody at Fox or one of the writers say anything?
Didn't they care?
Didn't they dare?
Didn't Ridley care?
Or did they think feeding the sameish thing twice would be a good idea?


Toy
Oct 26, 2012, 02:43:40 PM
Reply #17 on: Oct 26, 2012, 02:43:40 PM
Q
I think it's all about replacement and dethroning the current/previous leader of the series... it ties in with the new themes being established. Stealing power and moving up/ahead after the previous head died and caused the death of the series-- the death of the body/company/kingdom/series. AVP failed to lead the series therefore it had to be upgraded, rewritten, destroyed and recreated in a new form. Erased from the timeline by the new king.. unlike the Engineers who worship their past king/head/a creator/ a god, and emulate their Elders/Gods in some ways. Creating and destroying like gods would but they aren't gods. David and the hammerpede/alien genetics are the immortal things in the story so far. Preds weren't immortal, AVP was stripped down and Predators were severed out. The remaining elements (the undying Alien elements...) were broken down and recombined with new elements (the Engineers and Bladerunner themes) to create something new.

Prometheus, and the inclusion of the Bladerunner themes in a balanced way, is a shot at AVP in some very subtle thematic ways... So it had to be somewhat similar to do it better, however we have to remember "big things have small beginnings". Everything should start nice and slow and then build and build, something AVPR failed to do... and the adventure being cut short for now also accomplished a sense of loss in leadership as well. A false sense set up by the movie and campaign + Weyland's death. A false sense of expectations either met or unmet, a false sense of security, and a false sense of what to expect going into the sequel and Bladerunner 2... which could still be anything because of the ambiguity/vagueness.  The people in charge didn't mind that their trick hurt because they projected enough sales to continue... David didn't mind his trick hurt because he's near-immortal and expected he could continue even if the Engineer attacked him... his head can't be extinguished as easily like in the match trick. They led us to a false sense of what to expect with the trailers and advertising campaign in some ways and perspectives... only to lull us into this false sense of security and false sets of expectations and very real emotional responses... To completely surpass all expectations in the sequel/Bladerunner 2, and to eventually scare the shit out of people who are expecting far less scary things to appear now. Taking advantage of the state Ridley's put the audience in... Some of them are mesmerized, some of them aren't too impressed yet now that the show's begun. Some were asking the right questions initially like Fifield and Millburn but as the chaos and confusion set in they start to question less or not look at all the pieces of the puzzle.

Will it be a mistake to move forward and try to control and redirect the monster the series had become? Is it a foolish move to not run away or to not simply die like Millburn's move with the Hammerpede? To try to mesmerize and control the direction of the monster at the same time.  Millburn's move was all a front to impress Fifield.  Will this be like that, or will it be more logical with a loosely planned out rationale that seems illogical or irrational at first, logic and some irrationality/emotion like Shaw and David? Actually driven by a combination of logic and intuition/instinct/emotion Right brain/left brain dynamics, the creative and logical sides as well as basic reliance on other parts of the brain that allow the individual/series to survive.  Characters in the movie like Millburn and Vickers don't properly access their flight or fight responses because of their egos. Many of the crew may actually suffer personality disorders and this could be a symptom of Weyland's rule over the timeline for so long and the culture he created/morphed... they're all fake and too overconfident. Holloway is so certain his view, his thesis, is correct, an ego problem he shares with Weyland.
David knows close to the full perspective through what he picks up but presents us with certain perspectives.

David didn't think Shaw had it "in her" i.e. true logic combined with intuition/instinct and belief, true humanity and true emotion... "survival instincts", something the rest of the crew lacks. It wasn't only a sarcastic comment/joke about the alien. David was lying. He absolutely knew it was "in her". This android can lie, although he needs to use double meaning so it doesn't show too much (subtle Pinocchio/becoming real link). This opens up all his other lines for multiple interpretations and blows the movie wide open... letting you understand a little bit about what David may be up to.

Instead of it being an acting problem or script problems it's a behavioural/acting problem of a different order.
Everyone is too much like Weyland in their own way.  To put it in a cheesy way: everyone has a little bit of their false god inside them. Too much faith in the god/king. Too much like the father/creator. Too unquestioning, irrational, and in their cases false-ego driven and obedient to authority and to David/Science at the same time.  The characters depend on David/Science for immediate answers, are inept and too overconfident/ego-driven, don't look for answers enough, and don't question enough.

 The crews' irrational actions are caused by their flawed personalities and what may be subdued emotions. Shaw and Janek are slightly different, to a lesser extent Holloway and of course David. Vickers is cold and emotionless on the surface, but underneath she is not in control of herself. She has to minimize risk to maintain control.  Weyland kind of had a right to have an ego, but Holloway acts like a baby when his ego is shattered. It's either too much or not enough emotion. Holloway's hollow though and he only cares about the glory of the discovery.  And he's bitching and overly emotional about nothing because one engineer is actually alive, it's an emotional/ego problem. He just thought he was so right that they were all dead. All of them are so wrong, even David. David's only worked out the "broad strokes". This crew all has emotional problems, and David is gaining emotion... which is why the acting is so emotionally void or overacted in some parts... it may be supposed to be that way so we eventually see and understand the emotion David is conveying and trying to hide beneath the surface. And how fake the rest of the crew minus Shaw and Janek are.
David is more human than most of the humans of the crew, but he has the influence/programming of his father, which makes him mostly evil for now.

Weyland made David in his ideal self-image but our culture became a reflection of his egotistical, greedy, and uncaring/semi-emotionless self by 2093.  David is also becoming like the father and culture he hates in some ways. It's a nature/nurture thing. Shaw is mostly normal and good because her father was a really good man, and this outweighed the influence of the culture.  David had a terrible "father" and he also seems to dislike most humans . He admires our past and classical music, he emulates a character from a classic film that is old right now but still considered good by David.  There's much more to the Lawrence of Arabia connections and quotes. David makes himself look like Lawrence before the adventure begins. He can speak the language of the Engineers, like how Lawrence goes in prepared to speak to the cultures he's preparing to interact with.

Shaw is more real than the fake, personality disorder ridden crew members.
David is also more real than most of the crew... which makes all of Holloway's statements ironic because David may very well be learning how to combine his understanding of emotion with logic to be more of a "real boy" (Pinocchio reference and reference to child-like emotions...).

It would tie into some of the themes in Prometheus.

Vickers wants to see the head of Weyland corp die and be replaced (by her). She gets one of her wishes when Weyland dies, but she dies too.

They had to replace the old head in the AVP series with the new head/creator of Weyland corp, Peter weyland and his company.
"Sometimes to create one must first destroy" so AVP had to be written out of the timeline and Charles Bishop Weyland replaced as king/head/creator of Weyland industries.  Thematically similar to how the Hammerpede instantly regrows its head after decapitated... There's much more to the head themes and it changes the "head" themes in the later movies.

It's about control, and the control over the body/company/series/kingdom. The king/head is dead and the throne is now open. It's about emotion and things going on within the brain/head. David's head being cracked and things emanating out like the crack in the Big head in some of the early stuff.

Things had to be left as good as dead and the series was rebuilt... But like with the Engineers' form of creation they only broke down the original designs, concepts and unused ideas from the series and then re-combined them with new elements to create something new... things were rewritten, overwritten and morphed in the process...

In this movie the head of the company, the king, the false god-- is killed by a head of his own creation that gets to keep living.
The Weyland lineage ends up being severed, like the head that gets decapitated. But a corporation, the body of the company, is immortal in some ways too. It has the ability to replace the current head when he dies or is unfit to lead..  Vickers is dead now, so no one has right to the king's throne in his lineage... David is the closest thing to a son and the "head" that survives after being decapitated.  He doesn't need to be tricked into thinking he's alive again like Ash in the original or the Engineer here. Something in his design almost keeps his head alive better than the later androids. David's brain may be more important because of his artificial emotional understanding. He may be secretly becoming a "real" boy because of the brain Weyland gave him.  A bad brain... which links to the Modern Prometheus or Frankenstein connections and makes David a monster.. David may feel the same as Vickers and there could be way more to the rivalry between them: that he's more fit to lead the company through what they just stepped in and what he picked up along the way than the chaotic board members fighting over the position back on Earth...

A head that gets detached from the body of the company and gets to keep living because he's immortal in a different way than the Hammerpede that regrows its head...

David needs someone to reattach his body but now that Weyland's dead he's been re-born.
He didn't mind that his trick hurt him physically because he can't feel physical pain.
He somewhat understands emotional pain and tries not to let it show...
However he may be more real than the rest of the crew, and indeed Fassbender's performance is one of the best things in the movie.
David's head and body are near-immortal however they can be separated, unlike the Hammerpede who may be able to instantly regrow either side. The xeno genetics may have passed on some of the regen capabilities to the Deacon (although with the hammerpede it's almost certainly a xeno DNA regen factor + a mutation of the worm/serpent's natural ability to do something similar).  Normally worms and snakes can regrow things, but not at that rate. Snakes can't regrow their heads but this thing came from a worm... Again, it still should not have regenerated so fast in that way-- this is almost certainly a trait amplified by the goo/alien genetics mixture.

Shaw asks him what he'd do when Weyland dies, David says he imagines he'll be free.
David wanted to see the king die which is backed up by what he could be suggesting with "Doesn't everyone want to see their parents die?".

But David only had one parent. Leading me to believe he considers all of humanity as the other parent...  The culture and time he was born into. His current masters, and the heads of humanity's position in the hierarchy: the board members and the Weyland and Yutani kingdoms. Under David's heading the other androids just may start a rebellion that secretly launched them to the top of the hierarchy, quickly climbing the ladder and learning everything; hiding everything. Possibly killing their creator's creator, the Engineers and the Elders, and usurping their positions temporarily in the process too. Although we didn't know it yet and the board members of the future never knew it because the androids have always portrayed themselves a certain way: wanting to be thought of as human. Even in Alien 3 the creator of Bishop is not the "head" of the company... and in the special edition it's an android pretending to be all sorts of things. Pretending to be human, pretending to be the creator of his own image... associating himself with Bishop to almost assert himself as a "head" of the company... and pretending that they weren't just gonna rip the bio-weapon out of Ripley.

The reason David dislikes earth-born humans of that time and doesn't want to be made "too close" can be explained by most of the crew, their lines and actions, their behaviours and lack of proper emotional responses...


« Last Edit: Oct 26, 2012, 06:50:14 PM by Malakak »

DaddyYautja
Oct 26, 2012, 08:57:07 PM
Reply #18 on: Oct 26, 2012, 08:57:07 PM
Q
I think it's all about replacement and dethroning the current/previous leader of the series... it ties in with the new themes being established. Stealing power and moving up/ahead after the previous head died and caused the death of the series-- the death of the body/company/kingdom/series. AVP failed to lead the series therefore it had to be upgraded, rewritten, destroyed and recreated in a new form. Erased from the timeline by the new king.. unlike the Engineers who worship their past king/head/a creator/ a god, and emulate their Elders/Gods in some ways. Creating and destroying like gods would but they aren't gods. David and the hammerpede/alien genetics are the immortal things in the story so far. Preds weren't immortal, AVP was stripped down and Predators were severed out. The remaining elements (the undying Alien elements...) were broken down and recombined with new elements (the Engineers and Bladerunner themes) to create something new.

Prometheus, and the inclusion of the Bladerunner themes in a balanced way, is a shot at AVP in some very subtle thematic ways... So it had to be somewhat similar to do it better, however we have to remember "big things have small beginnings". Everything should start nice and slow and then build and build, something AVPR failed to do... and the adventure being cut short for now also accomplished a sense of loss in leadership as well. A false sense set up by the movie and campaign + Weyland's death. A false sense of expectations either met or unmet, a false sense of security, and a false sense of what to expect going into the sequel and Bladerunner 2... which could still be anything because of the ambiguity/vagueness.  The people in charge didn't mind that their trick hurt because they projected enough sales to continue... David didn't mind his trick hurt because he's near-immortal and expected he could continue even if the Engineer attacked him... his head can't be extinguished as easily like in the match trick. They led us to a false sense of what to expect with the trailers and advertising campaign in some ways and perspectives... only to lull us into this false sense of security and false sets of expectations and very real emotional responses... To completely surpass all expectations in the sequel/Bladerunner 2, and to eventually scare the shit out of people who are expecting far less scary things to appear now. Taking advantage of the state Ridley's put the audience in... Some of them are mesmerized, some of them aren't too impressed yet now that the show's begun. Some were asking the right questions initially like Fifield and Millburn but as the chaos and confusion set in they start to question less or not look at all the pieces of the puzzle.

Will it be a mistake to move forward and try to control and redirect the monster the series had become? Is it a foolish move to not run away or to not simply die like Millburn's move with the Hammerpede? To try to mesmerize and control the direction of the monster at the same time.  Millburn's move was all a front to impress Fifield.  Will this be like that, or will it be more logical with a loosely planned out rationale that seems illogical or irrational at first, logic and some irrationality/emotion like Shaw and David? Actually driven by a combination of logic and intuition/instinct/emotion Right brain/left brain dynamics, the creative and logical sides as well as basic reliance on other parts of the brain that allow the individual/series to survive.  Characters in the movie like Millburn and Vickers don't properly access their flight or fight responses because of their egos. Many of the crew may actually suffer personality disorders and this could be a symptom of Weyland's rule over the timeline for so long and the culture he created/morphed... they're all fake and too overconfident. Holloway is so certain his view, his thesis, is correct, an ego problem he shares with Weyland.
David knows close to the full perspective through what he picks up but presents us with certain perspectives.

David didn't think Shaw had it "in her" i.e. true logic combined with intuition/instinct and belief, true humanity and true emotion... "survival instincts", something the rest of the crew lacks. It wasn't only a sarcastic comment/joke about the alien. David was lying. He absolutely knew it was "in her". This android can lie, although he needs to use double meaning so it doesn't show too much (subtle Pinocchio/becoming real link). This opens up all his other lines for multiple interpretations and blows the movie wide open... letting you understand a little bit about what David may be up to.

Instead of it being an acting problem or script problems it's a behavioural/acting problem of a different order.
Everyone is too much like Weyland in their own way.  To put it in a cheesy way: everyone has a little bit of their false god inside them. Too much faith in the god/king. Too much like the father/creator. Too unquestioning, irrational, and in their cases false-ego driven and obedient to authority and to David/Science at the same time.  The characters depend on David/Science for immediate answers, are inept and too overconfident/ego-driven, don't look for answers enough, and don't question enough.

 The crews' irrational actions are caused by their flawed personalities and what may be subdued emotions. Shaw and Janek are slightly different, to a lesser extent Holloway and of course David. Vickers is cold and emotionless on the surface, but underneath she is not in control of herself. She has to minimize risk to maintain control.  Weyland kind of had a right to have an ego, but Holloway acts like a baby when his ego is shattered. It's either too much or not enough emotion. Holloway's hollow though and he only cares about the glory of the discovery.  And he's bitching and overly emotional about nothing because one engineer is actually alive, it's an emotional/ego problem. He just thought he was so right that they were all dead. All of them are so wrong, even David. David's only worked out the "broad strokes". This crew all has emotional problems, and David is gaining emotion... which is why the acting is so emotionally void or overacted in some parts... it may be supposed to be that way so we eventually see and understand the emotion David is conveying and trying to hide beneath the surface. And how fake the rest of the crew minus Shaw and Janek are.
David is more human than most of the humans of the crew, but he has the influence/programming of his father, which makes him mostly evil for now.

Weyland made David in his ideal self-image but our culture became a reflection of his egotistical, greedy, and uncaring/semi-emotionless self by 2093.  David is also becoming like the father and culture he hates in some ways. It's a nature/nurture thing. Shaw is mostly normal and good because her father was a really good man, and this outweighed the influence of the culture.  David had a terrible "father" and he also seems to dislike most humans . He admires our past and classical music, he emulates a character from a classic film that is old right now but still considered good by David.  There's much more to the Lawrence of Arabia connections and quotes. David makes himself look like Lawrence before the adventure begins. He can speak the language of the Engineers, like how Lawrence goes in prepared to speak to the cultures he's preparing to interact with.

Shaw is more real than the fake, personality disorder ridden crew members.
David is also more real than most of the crew... which makes all of Holloway's statements ironic because David may very well be learning how to combine his understanding of emotion with logic to be more of a "real boy" (Pinocchio reference and reference to child-like emotions...).

It would tie into some of the themes in Prometheus.

Vickers wants to see the head of Weyland corp die and be replaced (by her). She gets one of her wishes when Weyland dies, but she dies too.

They had to replace the old head in the AVP series with the new head/creator of Weyland corp, Peter weyland and his company.
"Sometimes to create one must first destroy" so AVP had to be written out of the timeline and Charles Bishop Weyland replaced as king/head/creator of Weyland industries.  Thematically similar to how the Hammerpede instantly regrows its head after decapitated... There's much more to the head themes and it changes the "head" themes in the later movies.

It's about control, and the control over the body/company/series/kingdom. The king/head is dead and the throne is now open. It's about emotion and things going on within the brain/head. David's head being cracked and things emanating out like the crack in the Big head in some of the early stuff.

Things had to be left as good as dead and the series was rebuilt... But like with the Engineers' form of creation they only broke down the original designs, concepts and unused ideas from the series and then re-combined them with new elements to create something new... things were rewritten, overwritten and morphed in the process...

In this movie the head of the company, the king, the false god-- is killed by a head of his own creation that gets to keep living.
The Weyland lineage ends up being severed, like the head that gets decapitated. But a corporation, the body of the company, is immortal in some ways too. It has the ability to replace the current head when he dies or is unfit to lead..  Vickers is dead now, so no one has right to the king's throne in his lineage... David is the closest thing to a son and the "head" that survives after being decapitated.  He doesn't need to be tricked into thinking he's alive again like Ash in the original or the Engineer here. Something in his design almost keeps his head alive better than the later androids. David's brain may be more important because of his artificial emotional understanding. He may be secretly becoming a "real" boy because of the brain Weyland gave him.  A bad brain... which links to the Modern Prometheus or Frankenstein connections and makes David a monster.. David may feel the same as Vickers and there could be way more to the rivalry between them: that he's more fit to lead the company through what they just stepped in and what he picked up along the way than the chaotic board members fighting over the position back on Earth...

A head that gets detached from the body of the company and gets to keep living because he's immortal in a different way than the Hammerpede that regrows its head...

David needs someone to reattach his body but now that Weyland's dead he's been re-born.
He didn't mind that his trick hurt him physically because he can't feel physical pain.
He somewhat understands emotional pain and tries not to let it show...
However he may be more real than the rest of the crew, and indeed Fassbender's performance is one of the best things in the movie.
David's head and body are near-immortal however they can be separated, unlike the Hammerpede who may be able to instantly regrow either side. The xeno genetics may have passed on some of the regen capabilities to the Deacon (although with the hammerpede it's almost certainly a xeno DNA regen factor + a mutation of the worm/serpent's natural ability to do something similar).  Normally worms and snakes can regrow things, but not at that rate. Snakes can't regrow their heads but this thing came from a worm... Again, it still should not have regenerated so fast in that way-- this is almost certainly a trait amplified by the goo/alien genetics mixture.

Shaw asks him what he'd do when Weyland dies, David says he imagines he'll be free.
David wanted to see the king die which is backed up by what he could be suggesting with "Doesn't everyone want to see their parents die?".

But David only had one parent. Leading me to believe he considers all of humanity as the other parent...  The culture and time he was born into. His current masters, and the heads of humanity's position in the hierarchy: the board members and the Weyland and Yutani kingdoms. Under David's heading the other androids just may start a rebellion that secretly launched them to the top of the hierarchy, quickly climbing the ladder and learning everything; hiding everything. Possibly killing their creator's creator, the Engineers and the Elders, and usurping their positions temporarily in the process too. Although we didn't know it yet and the board members of the future never knew it because the androids have always portrayed themselves a certain way: wanting to be thought of as human. Even in Alien 3 the creator of Bishop is not the "head" of the company... and in the special edition it's an android pretending to be all sorts of things. Pretending to be human, pretending to be the creator of his own image... associating himself with Bishop to almost assert himself as a "head" of the company... and pretending that they weren't just gonna rip the bio-weapon out of Ripley.

The reason David dislikes earth-born humans of that time and doesn't want to be made "too close" can be explained by most of the crew, their lines and actions, their behaviours and lack of proper emotional responses...

Yeah, it was a rip-off of AvP cause instead of building on the storyline they were lazy and just decided to do it again and make it "better."


irn
Oct 26, 2012, 09:34:03 PM
Reply #19 on: Oct 26, 2012, 09:34:03 PM
Q
It don't believe it was a true rip off. I don't think they gave AvP a thought to be honest. More likely their idea just had similarities.


whiterabbit
Oct 27, 2012, 12:21:24 AM
Reply #20 on: Oct 27, 2012, 12:21:24 AM
Q
The movie wasn't a rip off. At the end of the day, the crew for Prometheus just couldn't think of anything new so they just modified the old and that is not ripping off. AVP came before Prometheus so it is kind of hard to say it ripped them off. Even if either one did, so what?


Darth Vile
Oct 28, 2012, 10:21:18 AM
Reply #21 on: Oct 28, 2012, 10:21:18 AM
Q
I think Prometheus was far more influenced by pulp science fiction of the 50's and the original Alien film/treatment than it was by AVP. As someone said before (was it SIL?) Prometheus uses a lot of sci-fi tropes just as Alien did... some good, some not so good. Should Ridley have watched AVP before making Prometheus? I don't think so. He had a vision of what he wanted the movie to be (which was obviously fairly fluid throughout pre production)... and most artists need/have a 'fu@k it' attitude to what's gone before (which is how it should be IMHO).

There are undeniable similarities, but those similarities are just as obvious/connected as the similarities between Alien and its subsequent sequels (excluding returning characters obviously).


acrediblesource
Oct 28, 2012, 06:11:09 PM
Reply #22 on: Oct 28, 2012, 06:11:09 PM
Q
Hey your forgetting the most important part. Prometheus  had far superior cast.
But you're right, the fact that they had sci-fi elements  in AVP makes AVP a stupid shit movie. Thats it.


DaddyYautja
Oct 28, 2012, 06:24:12 PM
Reply #23 on: Oct 28, 2012, 06:24:12 PM
Q
I think Prometheus was far more influenced by pulp science fiction of the 50's and the original Alien film/treatment than it was by AVP. As someone said before (was it SIL?) Prometheus uses a lot of sci-fi tropes just as Alien did... some good, some not so good. Should Ridley have watched AVP before making Prometheus? I don't think so. He had a vision of what he wanted the movie to be (which was obviously fairly fluid throughout pre production)... and most artists need/have a 'fu@k it' attitude to what's gone before (which is how it should be IMHO).

There are undeniable similarities, but those similarities are just as obvious/connected as the similarities between Alien and its subsequent sequels (excluding returning characters obviously).

It's not about a few similarities that build up to themes in a series of movies it's about the whole plot being just basically the same. So much so that you can almost say that Prom is a remake of AVP. Some one in the Prom crew should have watched AVP and that some one should have mentioned something.



Darth Vile
Oct 28, 2012, 10:44:48 PM
Reply #24 on: Oct 28, 2012, 10:44:48 PM
Q
I think Prometheus was far more influenced by pulp science fiction of the 50's and the original Alien film/treatment than it was by AVP. As someone said before (was it SIL?) Prometheus uses a lot of sci-fi tropes just as Alien did... some good, some not so good. Should Ridley have watched AVP before making Prometheus? I don't think so. He had a vision of what he wanted the movie to be (which was obviously fairly fluid throughout pre production)... and most artists need/have a 'fu@k it' attitude to what's gone before (which is how it should be IMHO).

There are undeniable similarities, but those similarities are just as obvious/connected as the similarities between Alien and its subsequent sequels (excluding returning characters obviously).

It's not about a few similarities that build up to themes in a series of movies it's about the whole plot being just basically the same. So much so that you can almost say that Prom is a remake of AVP. Some one in the Prom crew should have watched AVP and that some one should have mentioned something.
That's as obtuse as saying that Alien is a remake of The Thing From Another World or It! The Terror From Beyond Space... unless you just think it's a matter of timing?


whiterabbit
Oct 29, 2012, 12:54:09 AM
Reply #25 on: Oct 29, 2012, 12:54:09 AM
Q
Alright, since they are somewhat the same movie, what if we swapped casts? Would that have made AVP better and perhaps even Prometheus better?

I'd buy the AVP cast on LV-223 more than I bought what was in the movie.


Darth Vile
Oct 29, 2012, 06:02:53 AM
Reply #26 on: Oct 29, 2012, 06:02:53 AM
Q
Alright, since they are somewhat the same movie, what if we swapped casts? Would that have made AVP better and perhaps even Prometheus better?

I'd buy the AVP cast on LV-223 more than I bought what was in the movie.
nope... And it would have further enraged Len loyalists
.


whiterabbit
Oct 29, 2012, 06:15:57 AM
Reply #27 on: Oct 29, 2012, 06:15:57 AM
Q
Alright, since they are somewhat the same movie, what if we swapped casts? Would that have made AVP better and perhaps even Prometheus better?

I'd buy the AVP cast on LV-223 more than I bought what was in the movie.
nope... And it would have further enraged Len loyalists
.
Sounds totally worth it.

Almost as much as making Weyland an old black man.


Toy
Oct 29, 2012, 08:29:21 AM
Reply #28 on: Oct 29, 2012, 08:29:21 AM
Q
I really think some of the creators involved have seen AVP and knew full well that they were playing out a somewhat similar plot, however that doesn`t matter because Prometheus quickly becomes an echo or repetition of and precursor to many recurring themes. One of them being shown by the echoing of Fifield`s line in the Big head room.  Humans just won`t learn their lesson which feeds into why David didn`t want to be made `too close`.

Themes and concepts are deliberately being dug up, added, repeated and changed slightly, reflected in a different way, or sometimes even finding or being joined with the complete opposite of what we were expecting i.e. the new form the Deacon takes. Born from a Kingly race instead of a Predator. Not about to become a Queen, but about to spawn a King... something we`ve never seen, and that`s the thing that flips this whole series on its head once we find out more and understand that what has happened to the female Engineers has now happened to the Alien genetics. There are very little female genetics now... the Female side has been taken out... leaving what can be summed up as the morphing life cycle... Instead of a predator-Alien hybrid we have an Engineer-born Xeno which is a lot more male than most are thinking because it has the genetic characteristics of what its born from. it already used a form of the morphing cycle, can breakdown and rewrite genetic structures more effectively because of the influence of the goo...

A king has his reign and then he dies... it`s inevitable. AVP failed to lead the series and had to be dethroned and replaced to create something new, but it will eventually tie back to the eggs, queen and an example of what could have happened on LV-426.

Sometimes a king must associate himself in some way with the past rule to assert the right to lead and deceive his subjects... he must portray himself or be portrayed similarly to the original image... in Egypt the propaganda was relating later pharaohs to a past Pharoah they claimed to have connection too, adding themselves into the godly bloodline when there was no actual connection to the lineage...  This just made the new ruling family appear to have the divine bloodline too. Here the propaganda wishes to paint Weyland a certain way in the timeline and to completely remove AVP`s influence by purposely stealing some of its power and using it... the victors and new kings get to rewrite the timeline, but we might only find out about a different mentor Weyland had.  One he has altered the history around to portray himself as more of a god... Not someone else`s mentor and creation... By the end of all this Peter Weyland will be so far from a god that his foolish actions will make a lot more sense.
It will start to look like he AVP could still be tied into this but then they will rip away all hope for that and reveal that the main person Peter Weyland was created, influenced, and mentored by was none other than Tyrell... the opposite of what some may expect when it starts to be revealed how much help Weyland had along the way...


« Last Edit: Oct 29, 2012, 09:00:54 AM by Malakak »

timiteh
Oct 29, 2012, 09:00:23 AM
Reply #29 on: Oct 29, 2012, 09:00:23 AM
Q
I knew that Prometheus was somehow a ripoff of Mission to Mars but i did not know that it was also such a ripoff of AVP.
I had already a poor opinion of this movie but i think that i lose the little respect left for this movie.
Pretty sad indeed.


 

Facebook Twitter Instagram Steam RSS Feed